►
From YouTube: Open Source Product Development - Pablo Kulbaba
Description
We are collaborating on the open source hydronic stove, getting the full design into FreeCAD. Here we discuss the sociology of open source execution. http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Open_Source_Hydronic_Stove
What you see here at Open Source Ecology is an ambitious program based on a volunteer effort. To help us reach the goals - please consider joining as an OSE Developer in 2017-
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Developers
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A
Welcome
everybody
I'm
here
with
Pablo
from
Argentina,
so
he's
an
open-source
warrior,
so
he
he's
actually
developing
open-source
stove's
rocket
stoves
and
he's
actually
an
engineer.
So
he's
got
real
designs
behind
it.
He's
got
CAD
and
we're
discussing.
How
do
you
do
this?
So
he's
one
of
the
very
few
people
who's
doing
open-source
for
a
real
life-like
he's
doing
this
for
a
living
just
like
we
are
producing
the
things
that
we
do.
We
we
have
a
business
model
based
on
immersion
workshops,
so
does
he
and
the
business
model
is
basically
training?
You
can
produce
things.
A
You
can
sell
kids,
but
the
question
came
up
so
he's
a
good
person
to
discuss
this
with
what
happens
when?
Well,
it's
great.
If
people
come
to
our
workshop
and
start
replicating
our
work,
I
mean
I
say
that
in
general,
if
anyone
replicates
it,
that's
awesome,
but
what
if
they
are
in
the
same
town
as
meeting
with
me,
we
do
then.
A
Yeah
and
yeah
I
mean
the
first
thing
to
say
about
that:
that's
its
congratulations!
If
someone
actually
does
repeated,
because
that
means
your
product
is
good,
so
that's
that's
for
a
start,
but
second
yeah
you
do
have
to
think
about.
It
has
to
be
an
abundance
mindset.
Where
then,
you
have
to
say:
okay,
how
do
I
make
money
then?
And
it
has
to
be
based
on
constant
innovation
and
increasing
the
pie,
and
that
means
you're
working.
That
means
you're
innovating.
A
So,
for
example,
the
way
to
do
it
is
have
support
institutions
such
as
open
source,
ecology,
which
provide
a
common
platform
where
everyone
pitches
in
to
that
right.
The
way
we
changed
the
world
is
a
few
people
like
yourself
like
like
ourselves.
We
continue
developing
and
we
share
everything
and
it's
radically
open
source.
A
Protectionism.
But
that's
all
that's
a
wasted
energy.
You
cannot
collaborate
and
we're
saying
that
is
not
how
we
should
go
forward,
because
we
always
continue
to
promote
the
military
economy.
That's
just
warfare.
Warfare
is
seen,
and
you
know
oil
wars
or
whatever,
but
then
you
have
economic
warfare.
That's
that's
what
our
system
is
built
on
right
now,
so
we
have
to
have
a
very
conscious
effort
to
say:
ok,
that
is
not
right
and
we
can
do
better.
So
how
do
you
do
it
for
us
for
OSC?
We
call
it
distributive
enterprise.
A
We
distribute
the
enterprise's
openly.
How
do
we
make
money?
Well,
we
just
continue
developing
the
point.
Is
we
really
believe
that
the
there
is
so
many
opportunities
and
we
fight
for
their?
Basically,
we
collaborated
with
everybody.
So
we're
saying:
ok,
because
we
got
all
these
inputs
from
all
these
different
people.
We
can
continue
to
make
products
better
and
always
expand
the
pie,
and
then
you
ask
well
well
how
large
is
that
pie
really?
A
Well,
that
pie
is
any
production
at
all,
so
take
any
mundane
product,
soybeans,
cordless
drills,
CNC
machines
houses
make
them
open-source,
make
them
better
and
you
expand
the
market
perfect,
like,
for
example,
for
housing.
We
are
not
short
of
people
wanting
houses
right
now.
Everybody
wants
a
house.
We
are.
Our
challenge
is
simply
training
people
having
enough
people
to
replicate
our
work.
A
So
our
our
work
is
okay,
we're
gonna,
start
immersion
training
programs,
we're
gonna,
create
more
competition
for
ourselves,
but
we
first
have
to
prove
it
that
this
stuff
actually
works,
and
then
we
train
people.
So
then
we
can
generate
revenue
from
education.
Now
education
is
big
business,
so
there's
plenty
of
livelihoods
to
be
had
there.
So.
B
A
A
So
I,
don't
know
where
that's
going,
but
I'm
saying
the
idea
that
people
were
actually
shared
share
and
do
it
for
a
living
is
rare.
There's
many
people
who
are
in
a
hot,
the
hobby,
space
people
who
go
to
hackerspaces
and
do
something
for
fun,
but
that's
not
how
you're
gonna
change
the
world.
That's
you
really
have
to
talk
about
the
significant
production
of
the
current
economy
and
how
do
you
start
replacing
it?
So
it's
not
so
so
it
starts
to
leave
the
military,
permanent
Worf
economy.
A
So
the
way
to
do
it
is
you
have
to
like,
for
example,
the
you
know.
We
ask
ok,
so
there's
gonna
be
freeloaders.
How
do
you
address
that?
Well,
the
ecosystem
simply
has
space
for
freeloaders.
There's
gonna
be
people
like
on
our
development
team.
We
have
a
dozen
people,
our
development
team.
All
of
us
contribute
explicitly
for
open
source
and
we
continue
building
that
but
say
there's
a
freeloader.
They
can
do
that
because,
there's
you
know
you
can't.
A
You
can't
be
forcing
anybody
cuz
as
soon
as
you
start
forcing
somebody
then
you're
talking
about
once
again,
not
not
providing
not
letting
people
be
free
to
do
what
they
want,
but
just
like
Wikipedia
has
shown
there
are
more
contributors
than
takers.
Like
you,
you
know
the
people
wonder
with
Wikipedia.
How
can
you
ever
make
that
better
and
it
turned
out
the
the
positive
contributions
outweighed
the
negative
contributions?
A
So
that's
that's
how
we
have
to
build
it,
build
our
work,
and
certainly
that
means
a
dedicated
effort
like
what
we're
doing,
where
we're
actively
culturing
the
protocols,
the
actual
execution
of
these
collaborative
mechanisms,
whether
it's
things
like
one
thing,
we're
looking
at
right
now
that
we
will
do
to
get
the
financial
of
some
of
the
financial
feedback
loops
is
hero
X,
which
are
crowd,
funded,
crowd,
design
challenges.
So
you
can
put
on
a
product
out
there
to
develop
that
openly
where
you
say:
okay,
this
is
definitely
gonna
be
open
source.
A
We
can
gather
the
money
through
crowdfunding
to
actually
pay
for
prizes
to
do
rewards
for
that.
So
that's
one
way
to
do
it,
but
other
than
that
we
run
workshops
and
that's
how
we
generate
our
revenue
to
support
this
and
right
now,
this
this
next
year
we're
starting
our
immersion
program.
So
it's
gonna
be
the
first
time
we
ever
do
an
immersion
program.
A
We
sent
people
out
to
run
workshops
around
these
machines
throughout
the
world,
so
we
can
generate
revenue
from
running
workshops
from
now
scaling
the
workshop
effort,
where
we
actually
hiring
people
to
run
open
source
workshops
were
then
they
get
paid
and
then
they
they
actually
spend
like
50
percent
of
their
time
running
workshops
and
say
50
percent
of
their
time
doing
further
research
and
development
for
a
living.
So
they
have
a
real
motivation
to
make
that
happen
as
opposed
to
hobbyists.
So
that's
that's!
A
Where,
at
after
all
these
years
we're
saying
okay,
we
have
to
get
very
deliberate
about
getting
this
out
into
the
world
training
people
making
sure
that
people
are
certified.
Have
this
skill
set
to
do
this
and
starting
with
something
small
I
started
with
the
3d
printers
and
the
micro
factory
aspects,
and
then
the
next
there'll
be
an
extension.
So
how
do
we
keep
people
involved
instead
of
them?
Defecting
I
mean
that's
a
big
question,
so
we
train
these
people
and
we
don't
want
them
to
coerced
and
we
can
contract
them
say.
B
B
B
A
Yeah
and
for
us
I
mean
the
way
I
was
approaching
it.
For
most
of
the
time
was
thinking.
Okay,
we
produced
the
brick
press,
we
produced
the
house,
the
greenhouse,
all
these
things
and
we
thought
oh
yeah.
It
will
start
spreading
like
a
wildfire
as
soon
as
it's
made,
but
that
does
not
happen
because
it's
difficult
it's
it
requires
a
diversified
skill
set.
A
Right
but
then,
but
then
you
can
see
if,
if
you're,
seeing
that
okay,
the
blueprints
carry
only
so
much
weight,
it
requires
a
lot
of
learning
and
a
lot
of
due
diligence
to
make
it
happen,
then
that
opens
up
the
education
part
as
as
a
revenue
opportunity,
of
course,
so
you
can
now
once
you
perfect
something
and
it's
working
for
you,
you
can
get
into
training
and
more
more
formal
training,
like
our
goal
with.
What
we
do
here
is
to
create
a
full
world-class
research
and
development
and
training
center.
A
A
We
don't
have
now
government
barriers
are
little
in
this
country.
So
that's
not
an
issue
for
us.
The
issue
for
us
is
gets
down
to
marketing.
Can
we
populate
our
workshops
and
can
we
get
the
products
to
a
good
enough
level
to
be
high
demand?
So
so
the
bottom
line
is
a
quest
for
excellence
is
that's
that's
where
it
has
to
has
to
be.
The
products
have
to
be
better.
We
have
to
be
very
deliberate
about
marketing
now
so
that
we're
we're
saying.
Okay
now
we
can
run
a
workshop.
A
A
You
know,
since
we
published
the
civilization
starter
kit
DVD
with
a
lot
of
videos
there,
just
looking
at
some
of
that,
we've
got
all
the
documentation
there
for
the
older
machine,
which
still
a
lot
of
people
have
built,
there's
been
of
what
we
know,
there's
a
dozen
replications
of
that
worldwide
and
that's
far
from
viral.
But
at
that
time
I
had
to
ask
myself
I
had
to
go
through
that
maturation
process,
which
said:
okay
can
I
release
this,
because
this
is
gonna
be
excellent.
It's
gonna
be
we're
gonna
make.
A
We
could
make
millions
if
we
just
hold
it
onto
ourselves
and
then
I
have
to
say
to
myself.
Okay.
What
is
it
about?
Is
it
about?
You
know,
propriety
sing,
something
or
is
it
about
spreading
wealth
to
the
world,
and
and
at
that
point
I
made
a
decision
being
faced
with
the
real
question:
okay,
what
if
this
is
extremely
successful
and
I'm
actually
losing
out
on
a
lot
of
money
and
I
said
now.
That's
just
not
important!
A
There's
another
mission:
that's
more
important,
so
bud
that
took
a
very
deliberate
and
conscious
step
of
growth
on
my
part
to
say:
okay,
this
is
exactly
what
I
want
to
do
that
clarity,
I
know
where
I'm
going.
So
that's
some
something
that
everyone
has
to
go
through,
and
people
who
are
like
who
are
hippies,
who
haven't
done
anything
but
are
very
idealistic.
They
have
yet
to
get
to
the
point
where
they
actually
have
economic
power
and
then
they
have
to
decide.
A
A
So
that's
that's
something
you
have
to
watch
out
for
okay.
So
let's
talk
about
the
so
to
say
the
brick
press,
the
bland
plans
are
out.
People
can
replicate
it.
What
we
simply
learned
after
that
time
is
just
as
deliberately
as
we
develop
the
technology.
We
have
to
take
that
kind
of
effort
to
develop
the
enterprise.
A
That
means
we're
producing
the
website.
The
economic
analysis,
business
plan,
production
plans,
operations,
models,
marketing
plans,
all
of
those
assets
that
are
necessary
for
running
a
business,
we're
open
sourcing.
All
of
that,
and
if
you
look
at
our
development
template
on
the
one
side,
look
at
template
on
the
wiki
on
the
one
side,
it
has
all
the
development
assets
like
here's,
your
conceptual
design,
your
cash,
your
Bills
of
materials,
your
fabrication
instructions.
Well,
you
have
to
do
exactly
the
same
for
the
enterprise
level
and
that's
where
we're
essentially
right.
A
Now,
as
we
go
forward
to
make
this
the
enterprise's
replicable,
we
developed
all
of
that
at
the
enterprise
level,
which
is
a
whole
level
of
rigor,
just
like
it
is
to
develop
the
technology
itself
and
that's
what
we
call
distributive
enterprise.
Once
we
document
that
in
a
in
a
good
way,
then
people
can
have
much
lower
access
barriers
to
entry.
A
Yeah
the
development
template
you
have
the
one,
the
first
level
as
you
got
the
technology.
The
second
tab
is
says:
enterprise
and
right
now
it's
in
a
state
of
disarray,
but
you
just
see
all
the
different
assets
that
go
into
that.
It's
it's
just
another
development
process
and
we're
saying
that
our
claim
is
that
it's
actually
possible
to
do
that.
To
have
many
people,
collaborate,
we're
saying
that
yes,
we're
gonna
breakthrough
in
people's
consciousness
to
the
point
where
people
are
actually
seeing.
A
Yes,
it
is
better
to
collaborate
instead
of
like
a
hundred
different
businesses
doing
the
same
thing
and
not
collaborating
you
can
actually
get
a
better
product.
If
you
all
work
together,
I
mean
it's
obvious
like
if
you
kind
of
think
about
it
in
some
way,
it's
just
plain
obvious,
but
nobody
does
it.
Nobody
in
the
world.
Does
it
and
that's
a
thing
that
that
I
think
is,
is
gonna,
be
the
next
breakthrough
in
a
human
economy?
A
B
A
A
Yeah
I
mean
it's:
it's
like
fish
and
water,
they
don't
know
they're
in
water.
Just
like
right
now
we
don't
know.
We
don't
know
that
we
don't
really
recognize,
really
pay
attention
to
the
fact
that
we're
in
a
permanent
military
economy,
you
know
it's
the
competitive
way.
It's
it's
just
around
us
and
you
know
in
kindergarten.
Maybe
that's
the
last
time
you
hear
that
you
should
actually
share,
but
then,
when
you
go
out,
you
know
college
and
you
try
to
get
a
job.
It's
it's
all
about
that.
You
cannot
do
that.
A
So
there's
a
there's,
a
disconnect
there,
but
I
think
just
like
humans
are
evolving.
Like
you
know,
at
some
point,
slavery
used
to
be
cool
right
now.
Slavery
is
no
more
cool.
Different
human
rights
used
to
not
to
be
cool,
but
they
have.
We
have
evolved
to
them,
I
think
the
recognition
of
open
source
or
just
collaborative
development
as
a
as
a
paradigm
I
think
that's
just
forthcoming
in
a
future
of
human
evolution.
It's
I
think
it's
inevitable
as
we
go
into
the
technological
singularity.
A
I
mean
the
technological
singularity,
with
what
kurtzweil
predicts
for
like
20
49
or
something
or
whatever.
The
technology
is
gonna
help
us
to
learn,
learn
better,
so
I
actually
am
positive
about
technology,
helping
us
to
become
better
human
beings
and
therefore
we
can
really
transcend
the
human
self.
Just
really
evolve
as
humans
outside
of
just
developing
our
technologies
like
right
now
we
celebrate
the
technologists.
Various
technologists,
like
you
know,
like
Steve
Jobs
as
okay.
These
are
the
new
gods,
but
it's
kind
of
like
one
of
those
things
of
the
fish
and
water.
A
It's
like
we're
celebrating
that
somebody
created
a
gadget
and
that's
like
our
role.
I,
don't
know.
That's
that's
not
not
exactly
right.
So
so
we
are
definitely
like
workship
worshipping
technology
these
days,
but
the
narrative
about
human
evolution
is
not
as
strong
but
I
hope
in
the
future
that
that
that
will
be
more
prevalent
people
talking
about
more
about
how
to
become
better
human
beings
and
therefore
transitioning
all
the
different
institutions
of
society
to
better
ones,
just
like
with
blockchain
the
distributed
ledger,
has
huge
potential
for
in
stuff,
centralized
money
system
distributive
distributed
money
systems.
A
I.
Think
that,
with
a
distributed,
transparent
accounting
system,
individuals
can
start
coining
their
own
money,
but
the
paradigm,
the
algorithm
that
allows
for
that
proper
accounting
has
to
be
created,
and
that's
like
the
next
Nobel
Peace
Prize,
but
I
think
the
the
blockchain
has
that
potential
like.
If
you
took
it,
take
a
look
at
our
work,
say,
say:
people
have
productive
power
and
you
can
actually
measure
that
put
that
on
the
blockchain
and
people
can
generate
their
own
money
and
you
kind
of
get
away
from
scarcity.
A
A
Look
at
our
let's
see,
is
it
an
opensource
burger,
absolutely
I
mean
that's
one
of
the
fundamental
things
about
the
open
source
method.
Is
that
you're
supposed
to
credit
other
people
with
with
what
they
have
done
so
like,
for
example,
like?
Let
me
see
open,
let
me
see
hydronic
stove,
look
at
our
first
page
of
that.
A
We
stand
on
the
shoulders
of
giants.
Obviously
so
that's
obvious
yeah
the
essential
part
of
open
sources
that
you
attribute.
So
look
at
our
front
page
here
we
have
open
source,
ecology,
open
source
hardware,
Association
Creative,
Commons,
open
building,
Institute
freecad
Michigan,
Tech,
University,
Ross
agriculture,
lulz
about
Wikimedia,
wiki,
fab
minds,
kicad
Arduino,
pure
farmbot,
like
you,
know,
we're
using
all
these
technologies.
So
so
we
want
to
tribute
them,
and
it's
good
to
do
that.
It's
like
credit,
is
good
and
it's
part
of
that
ethnic.
A
A
But
there's
gonna
be
a
lot
of
people
who
will
just
take
your
stuff
and
they're
gonna,
claim
it
as
their
own
and
that
doesn't
matter
because
I
think
and
if,
while
many
people
do
get
their
power
that
way,
I
don't
think
it
matters
as
long
as
there's
more
people
who
are
collaborating.
So
the
work
for
us
is
to
make
sure
that
we
invite
people
to
collaborate.
A
B
A
Absolutely,
and
and
what
I
might
comment
on
that?
That's
a
very
important
point,
like
you've
heard
of
you
know
all
the
time
like
all
these,
you
know
new
energy
people
or
whatever
they
get
killed
because
they
had
an
invention,
or
so
whatever.
Whatever
happens
with
that.
Well
anybody
like
that
if
they
share
open
source
and
they
pub,
they
start
a
wiki
and
they
publish
their
stuff
immediately.
Well,
you
can
kill
them,
but
it's,
but
if
they
publish
their
stuff
already,
you
cannot
kill
the
movement
right.
A
So
it's
important
like
as
soon
as
you
get
anything
if
you're
worried
about
somebody
taking
credit
for
your
stuff,
publish
it,
I
mean
it's
like
almost
counterintuitive.
You
say
that,
oh,
if
I
publish
it,
someone
might
steal
it
well,
exactly
the
opposite,
because
it's
published
and
somewhere
out
there
you
can
put.
You
can
look
at
that
and
say:
oh
no
I!
Actually
you
know
like
on
our
wiki.
A
B
A
B
A
B
B
A
Yeah,
okay,
so
anyway,
let's
I'm
gonna
quit
this
sorry.
Sorry
pal,
we're
gonna
close
this
recording
here,
just
to
summarize
that
yeah
we're
collaborating
here
on
some
open-source
stoves,
hydronic
stoves
and
and
other
more
advanced
rocket
stoves
and
stuff
like
that.
But
the
point
is
it
boils
down
to
like.
If
we
talk
about
open
collaboration,
actual
execution
of
it,
how
do
we
do
it
effectively?
How
involve
people
in
that?
A
How
do
you
work
as
transparently
as
possible
and
start
getting
financial
feedback
loops
around
it,
because
that's
how
linux
succeeded
by
creating
financial
feedback
loops
and
not
pulling
into
any
traps?
But
the
last
thing
I
want
to
just
mention
is
just
the
story
of
what
happened
to
open-source
software
and
why
I
think
the
same
thing
is
not
going
to
happen
with
hardware
and
when
I
say
not
I
actually
say
not
for
the
positive,
because
what's
happened
to
software
now
open
source
software
Linux
has
absolutely
taken
over
the
world.
It's
on
all
the
back-end
servers.
A
It's
all
of
the
phones,
the
androids.
It's
the
back
end
of
Amazon
and
Facebook.
Microsoft
lost
people
open
sources
in
okay,
but
have
we
gained
the
distribution
of
wealth?
No,
we
haven't.
We
have
failed
on
a
distribution
of
wealth
or
across
the
world.
So
what
we
have
right
now
is
platform
monopolies,
so
open
source
Richard
Stallman
has
created
the
biggest
monopolies
of
the
world.
He
is
the
Libre
fighter,
he's
the
figure
behind
the
free
software,
but
right
now
open-source
software
creates
all
the
platform
monopolies.
A
So
in
some
way
the
promise
of
open
source
in
some
way
has
not
been
delivered
and
is
the
same
thing
going
to
happen
for
hardware.
I
think
that
the
course
of
history
might
be
just
a
little
different,
because
hardware
is
so
it
can
be
so
much
more
fundamental
to
us.
Making
a
living
in
terms
of
more
people
like
software
is
really
still
a
small
fraction
of
the
of
the
economy.
A
So
I
don't
know,
but
because
the
Korea
anything
can
happen,
we
can
have
a
totally
centralized
world
or
a
totally
distributed
world.
It's
up
to
us,
but
I
just
think
the
properties
of
hardware
in
that
how
closely
it
relates
to
our
very
existence
and
our
living,
our
livelihood
I
think
there's
more
potential
in
hardware
for
truly
distributing
the
wealth
of
the
world
around.
So
that's
just
my
my
prediction
on
that.
We'll
see
what
happens:
it's
all
negotiable,
but
yeah.
Let
me
stop
this
recording
and
say
it
again.