Open Source Ecology Marketing, 19 May 2020

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From YouTube: Conversation with Teru on Instagram

Description

Discussion with Teru, TED Fellow friend, on Instagram marketing. Hear more about plastic pizzas on aircraft carriers. Teru worked at Instagram until a couple years ago. He is posting stories on the TED Fellows Instagram. https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Teru

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A

What's that brother, what's up man, hey good, to see you good to see you, you look like you're hanging out in the konnex in a hope who is it quirky and aluminum yeah? No! No! No! This is. uh Let me show you where I am right now.

A

This is where I am no it's uh it's it's wood siding, but here let me show you the building I'm it. So this is the 2016 build seed eco-home by Catarina, designed by Catarina. We built it in five days with 50 people. This.

B

Is like similar to the project you guys were doing in Belize a.

A

Little different it's this is panel construction, as opposed to brick, construction, okay,.

C

A

B

Can only only have I, don't have any any I, don't see anything other than like the cameras showing you. You shown something else.

A

I am, if you go into the chat box, click on the link.

C

D

A

You mind: I, don't are you comfortable being in public? Can I record this for the team members yeah.

C

A

B

I'm still trying to find this chat box what net? What platform is.

A

That's inside left hand side it's a upper upper left usable marker for chat box, but you can also look at no.

C

No I see okay, you.

A

Can also see this. This is where I am up in that window right. There.

C

D

At my screen hmm yep, it.

A

Kept arena says: hi, hey.

C

B

So wait we part of this- are you in? Are you in that kind of addition on the.

A

Site, look at the screen. Look at my screen see where.

C

A

That's that's where I am it's the sloped roof you're, seeing there Wow.

C

B

A

We wait a minute.

B

You didn't say that you built this in five days. Did you.

C

A

C

Omg, it's amazing yeah.

A

That's all we do. This is called extreme manufacturing I mean that's the kind of stuff we developed, so we developed the open-source blueprints for everything and then also build models that are social like swarm, based, build models that we can build a tractor in a single day. You know the brick press that kind of crazy stuff. So right now.

D

We're working out.

A

The economic models for how we can really scale that you know.

C

A

That's where we're at and actually you come at a decent time, I mean to work. It's like all these years. It's been about R&D for the last decade, pretty much and right now it's like okay, we still don't have a team. We don't have an organization. Really it's about the enterprise development part in the product development, so we're starting to sell printers 3d printers.

A

That's the products we have we're gonna have like the the torch table and the tractors aiming for that like within a year or so could put them as a Buy button on our website as well. Mhmmm, you know slowly but surely, but the thing is it's like: it's really that you know the standard stuff to transition from vision to execution and enterprise and all that so yeah.

A

That's where at I mean.

C

A

Yeah, that kind of stuff, but I mean that, like that thing for the house, it's like we'd like to see a model where we come in. We have a client, 70k turnkey price for a house like that, similar to that maybe a little smaller, because this one's kind of a little ambitious but something that's literally like you- can get it turnkey for like 1/3 the cost of industry standards. So if a house like that would cost you like 250, you know 70 for us, so we're trying to.

C

A

Work out the business model behind that and all that and it's some of them on hold like kept arenas, kind of re-evaluating where, where she wants to go with the open building institute, have you seen the open building institute website yeah.

D

Now take a look at it, it's pretty.

A

A

Here once again in the chat box, it kind of explains the whole thing, but yeah I mean the vision, is beautiful, I think it's completely executable. It requires some good enterprise skill to pull it off. Mm-Hmm.

C

A

That's the idea there, this modular housing kind of like stuff, where we can you know one Avenue is like ship ship kid homes like kid homes used to be in style before, but that kind of went away. I mean.

D

A

Lot of it is probably around that the margins are thin for the people, producing them, I think, with some innovation, that kind of model could work like you know. You easily build your own house like a panel a weekend. You know, and then just put it rather.

B

A

B

Courts, people and you think how I saw the picture that you're in this is like weatherize. This is like insulin in good four four, four season: environments.

A

And yeah we got off-grid PV, we even got a bio digester. In there we got hydronic and ground heating with a high open source. Hydronic stove like we got some crazy stuff in there, it's good stuff and the aquaponic greenhouse in the front of it, which was another five-day project, but aquaponics have you seen our aquaponics stuff mm-hmm?

A

Let me just show you that real quick I think.

B

Alaska saw that you were working on was basically the machines, the you know, tractors and that kind of pressures, like kind of like a smokers, primarily I, can test field and agricultural.

A

Machine you kind of got to start with the industry, but yeah this. The derivatives are the products that the industry makes so look at back upon a greenhouse. That's another thing.

D

A

Mean it's crazy. It's an insanely, good and productive I mean it's amazing. We just harvested like last winter, we harvested like 200 pounds of fish from the ponds there right now. It's kind of sitting idle we're gonna go like to the next level of it, integrating some more automation like farmbot style automation, but imagine that kind of green house where you got little drones, planting your towers, that's the kind of stuff we can be talking about. You know quite realistic, but yeah yeah.

A

It's it's about the development effort to get there still like the big program is 2028 want to get done with everything as.

D

A

Technology base we're at about 33% done, but after that it's about applications so creating a replica facilities like our model here is that we create an Education, Research campus, basically, the university that you would want to go to where you learn to be an integrated human. That's.

D

A

Division to create facilities like that, starting with a place here and but the base like to keep costs low, like we really see like you, got to keep the infrastructure cost down like that's, why? You start with the machines the 3d printers, all that kind of stuff Wow.

B

It's remarkable and you're saying, like the cost, for a building that size to create like you're, conceiving that around seventy thousand dollars, yeah.

A

That's our goal: a little smaller, maybe like two-thirds, that mm-hmm but the material cost, and that one was 30 K. But it's like without the interior trim like the inside I mean that it's not gonna be like that, but basically like everything with the utilities, including PV 70k,.

D

A

That you can basically move in put your furniture possibly do like lit some last trend. Stuff cuz Katarina put a lot of time in that, of course, to make it pretty.

D

A

That's not how I would have it look, but there's a woman in the house.

A

B

Know I was looking into things like you know, essentially like small houses or kind of the shipping container type houses, because my family has some land in upstate, New, York and I was looking around to think like what are the options for building, but everything things that I saw like even like a shipping container thing like you know: 45 40 40 feet long. You know it's like $100,000 yeah,.

A

Yeah, those are not easy to finish. They look like they're cute, but not easy to work with, takes a.

D

C

A

Like our stuff is like start from scratch, basic panels, look at the website, actually kind of explains how this stuff comes together, but it's like it's from scratch and and it can be very effective and relatively low cost I mean yeah, pretty low cost. So yeah yeah I mean it's. You know, that's like a trillion dollar business.

A

If you can make it work, Kyle right so, and a lot of people are trying to get into like this modular like ship ship yourself, a home kind of kid, but they're gonna be like way more than 70 K yeah.

C

B

All the offices in the world are on ice and suddenly everybody's, like yeah, suddenly like everybody's, like fantasy, that they once had about like moving to the woods and like just having life I'm working from working from working from your cabins. It's like a set more realistic. You know possible the seems like a.

A

Trillion dollar.

B

Industry so a little bit closer yeah.

A

Well, we just got our fat pipe here. We got gigabyte, we got fiber here, so it's good Wow.

B

And are you still in the same place in the Midwest yeah yeah.

C

Anything amazing.

B

And so that's got to have transformed like over the past I keep in there like a decade. Now, no, no.

A

I mean that's the best building. Everything else is like. We still got. The old workshop like as far as infant yeah I mean there's a few buildings like five or other buildings, or so it doesn't look great right now, but I mean our next step. Right now is really to make it user friendly and pretty like. We were gonna. Have this massive program this summer summer of extreme design, build we're just gonna continue building crazy stuff, but that's that's all cancelled pretty much, but yeah.

D

A

Are you know thinking about like, for example, with the brick press? You know make nice retaining walls, and you know make the place look pretty because right now, it's full of weeds and it's not not like that house that you're seeing there that's Katrina's work, that's really cool! We got to pretty much get the rest of the campus to that level and make it where I mean we're just here ourselves. It's like we got to get staff. We got to populate this place and all that. So that's that's kind of the know trying to here.

A

So the model we're doing it. Let me show you actually the 3d printer, that we're selling right now cuz. This is the model. It's like right now, I'm developing a replicable business model where you can make 10k a month, building and selling these printers. Now not only does that come up do 3d pro I.

B

Don't see anything in the in a fan window.

A

Chat window look again, the 3d pro last link.

C

A

That's what we're selling right now! That's one of them, it's scalable! So we can make that's like an eight inch print bed, but you can actually I just built one. That's got an 18 inch print bed, so it's like much better, but basically get this thing on Amazon, eBay, Etsy and so forth. Tindy and just just started viewable business doing that produce like if we produce 20 of them that's 10k a month. I'm.

D

Gonna subtract.

A

Some cost but but basically develop a model where you can show that okay, you can do this good business. I mean a thing. That's unique about this I mean it looks like a regular 3d printer, but the only unique thing about it is one. It's like the lowest unique part count in a world like I, don't know if you can see, but it's like it's designed to be like the simplest possible. Ever it's got like repeating parts. Mm-Hmm, that's one part, but the second part is the distributive entries.

B

Yeah looks like they make a 3d printers yeah.

A

Yeah, like those corners, that's 3d, printed corners with steel angle. That's like super easy to do. It's an awesome way to build a frame, very strong frames, but the deal is it's called distributive enterprise. You want to build these, we'll teach you. So that's the model we're trying to do we're, saying: okay, we'll teach you how to do this with.

C

A

Then we collaborate build a team. Everyone's can support themselves. We do collaborative product development and collaborative marketing, and I mean that's where I could use your help. If you can help us do any of the social media, stuff or whatever, but with ideas yeah. The new model, where it's like the model of the business, is absolutely transparent.

A

Its we publish everything, but the idea is that you can come to us for the fast-track the value-added on okay, we'll teach you how to do that in a month or three months, you know get you up, basically like an incubator kind of deal. So that's the model, it's education and production, but we want to scale our enterprise by like starting with a printer which is solid, developed model yeah just start spreading that getting people on the team and just grow from there. That's that's where at I should.

B

Connect you with my friend and his company is called arc mater and he's basically launching its company. Does he's been calling a to point? I keep anything. It's basically designed for he's a painter, so he poked its do kind of like dimensional painting, so that he'd be really interested in talking to you. Let's.

A

See a good on enterprise, development, kind of stuff, her and.

B

I, don't know I mean he seems to be pretty good at, like you know getting this, this launched the last time. I talked to him, yet he was in talks with the Google Google idea. Slab I think it's called to do some investment in it. So I'm surprised, like you know, we're not I, know him from 20 years ago when he was like an art student, and so somebody like didn't come from a technical background and actually like has built these these these these printers, that kind of, certainly as printers they're, pretty remarkable. What's.

A

What's 2.5 mean that reading.

B

Meaning that it's not 3d, printing, it's it's and it's, but it's not conventional printing either. It's basically it's kind of like taking inkjet printers found a way to like load oil paints or more textural liquids into them. So you can basically build you. Can print paintings effectively make make paintings mention in them? I.

A

See I see I'm looking at mole, frilled up Castillo de JP JP, basically textured prints. Yes,.

B

Yes and I think his ultimate goal is to build something that actually like operates more like the way. A human hand does so like the one cities that he's developed now are still like effectively operating in the kind of like line pattern. You know like a sense of just dropping dots in a sequence, whereas he's I think his his ultimate vision is have something that, like actually like moves more like, like a human arm like with brushstrokes, and that kind of thing that.

C

B

Like but these print he's printed, some of my photographs a moment, I was pretty impressed with the with the results. It's also super interesting because it's very a very hacky, like you know, basically taking feets of styrofoam skim coating them with joint compound, like you know, adding a layer of gesso and then printing on them and I can it. This is kind of like amazing.

B

An amazing result with like material costs, are almost negligible. Yeah.

A

So any of that stuff, open-source er- this is proprietary static,.

B

Oh no I, don't know I I'm guessing it may not be um no.

A

A

Seriously, it's like we're in the dark ages of open-source actually like since make Assad collapse. You know lulzbot just collapsed. Almost you know Louis, but.

D

A

But you ever hear of Louis, but that's a known now: open-source 3d printing company, they just got bought out. They had financial trouble yeah. So like literally like we're in a dark age of open-source hardware, like nobody, believes it's doable right.

B

C

B

Mean I can imagine like it. You would be amazed at how angry like people in the photography community or with me like, when, like I, started, putting photos on like a Creative Commons. You know like it's heresy. This total heresy, ya.

A

Know it's that's the world, so I mean our greater vision is to create the open source economy. So basically we envision a world where product development is a collaborative thing. You don't get patents, you collaborate on a common pool, just like Linux. Does it today, Linux already did it with their platform with software, it's like the same thing for hardware, so we can just get past. You know solve all the pressing world issues that are mostly resource scarcity based.

C

B

I'm curious, like have you, talked to people in the like the humanitarian and aid and development like industries, because hold like this seems like very much like like there's. Some of this kind of eye thing happening like the idea of like building like modular refugee housing. That kind of thing.

A

I haven't gotten into much of that I think it really boils down to like I think we will like what.

D

A

I think well, you know we may be a little bit off from that like as far as the mass mass deployment I think, the the Belize build was a decent deal, but as far as it all boils down to okay, an effective efficient product that can be put on the marketplace, actually works really well. So, as I mentioned, we've been doing the prototyping for the last decade. Now we're ready to go prime time into product development, product deployment, you know mm-hmm.

C

A

Projects and products yeah.

D

A

With a 3d printer, so the way we're rolling it 3d printer, the 3d printer prints parts for the torch table from that you can cut out tractors and other machines, and then you can build houses and things like a but basic progression that you start with, like the 3d printers are actually really good, because we're gonna be doing crazy stuff, like printing the rubber tracks and tires for the the tractors and stuff like that cuz you can print print and rubber things like that. So yeah, it's a good good, fundamental tool and.

B

And the output is actually durable enough to use.

A

A cites there are plastic e'er thing. That's Stan like, for example, snowmobiles use that there's car parts and stuff like it's. It is it's absolutely there. It's amazing the missing link. There is low-cost access to filming, because, right now, that stuff is like 20 bucks, a pound. So it's on affordable.

D

A

Part of it is as we go forward like the near-term goals here are to do a shredder and film at maker, so we can get that stuff from the waste stream and basically like wow.

C

A

Cents, a pound or 10 cents, a pound material.

C

A

B

That I've always wondered Kulik, so much of this waste material I can't that be you know, converted into even things like building materials. You know absolutely.

A

Like as far as the plastic waste stream yeah, it's like none of those things. It's kind of this low hanging fruit, where nobody has done that to date like as far as a distributed production of plastic recycling, the closest is precious plastic, but they don't work anything on filament or 3d printing. They just do like other products where.

D

I think it's really.

A

Missing the boat cuz all the powers in the eye, in my view, from the 3d printing cuz, you can do everything you can do with other machines with 3d printing slower.

D

A

You can do it and it's more versatile, but yet like and then you might have heard of like there are filament makers out there. You can buy right you've heard of that. No.

C

A

Are but but they all work from commercial pallets, these finely refine pellets that it's not the a stream, that's a different story, so right.

D

A

We need to do it so we're doing that. We're we're we're gonna do a steam camp. We started doing these steam camps these days. We're gonna, do a camp like a remote participation camp where we ship out kits for the filament makers and shredders, so we're gonna try to do like a really low-cost version of it. So we can get that thing because talking about covert and a job loss like we're looking at okay, this could actually create real jobs. So, let's see what we can do absolutely.

B

We were remembering about this isn't so long ago. This is maybe 20 years ago. I was uh I was on aircraft carriers and they had a system. I. Remember where, like all of the kind of plastic waste that they would collect, those are like five thousand people on an aircraft carrier and all the plastic waste they would collect on their ass, see they had. They had like a chamber in the bottom of the ship where they're, basically they were processing it and they would come out like at the end, and it was pretty simple.

B

It seemed like they were just grinding and putting in like melter compactor, and this thing at the end, it was just like kind of spit out these giant disks. They look like they were like, like giant pizzas, basically they're about probably six inches in diameter, and they were beautiful. They were they. These disks probably about half an inch thick well, and there was just this like plastic that had basically been shredded and then kind of like melted, compressed together and and so and and so it was I kind of like this.

B

Like multicolored mosaic like like you can imagine a like a rainbow plastic pizza there, beautiful, absolutely beautiful or.

C

They were just like things.

B

A

Is that a trade secret is.

D

A

A trade secret I mean.

B

I reserve as a journalist, they didn't mind me photographing, it's like really yeah. You know we were like well, it's better than throwing like you know, like I, don't know 200 Pepsi bottles into the you know into the.

A

Ocean, that's interesting, there's a collaboration there. We can follow these ships around and make filament yeah.

B

But I'm, looking with a easier literally like you know, I, don't know what you do with them like if they were a disc-shaped. But if you printed them like you know, basically press them in square shapes or something like you could use in a site. I, don't know roofing panels or, like any you know, I guess.

A

On a ship like that, do they have storage like space issues so like the vault.

D

A

Example they they could easily press that into building block and save it and then give it to poor people that they invaded land. Oh it.

B

Was the same kind of thing when I was in Afghanistan like the amount you know have you ever seen like MREs like the military rations? They they come in. These plastic bags, like you know about the size of like I, don't know like a kid's lunch bag, basically a little bit bigger and these things are designed to be indestructible. They are like you know like it's like you know. You've got like these MRE rations.

B

Typically they'll have them split up case of them, strapped to the roof of like a Humvee and they're, like you know, baking in the Sun for, like you know a week or something until they get eaten and they stored forever. So these plastics, these plastic packs, are incredibly strong and durable and, like you can imagine, like a hundred hundred, fifty thousand troops, like you know in Afghanistan how many of these are consuming in a day and they're, just throwing these things and burning them. Looking like, there's gotta be a way like.

A

I ended up like grains, interesting cuz.

B

I was thinking like there's got to be like these could like be used as like, roofing material or you know, or even I, still use them. As like storage bags, you know just like roll the top clip them and it's like basically like indestructible, like a like a rafting bag. Almost but I mean I. Think, like literally like I, don't know a quarter of a billion of these have probably been thrown away and burned over the course of it. Like you know, 15 year, you know 15 years or you know, in Iraq and Afghanistan.

C

Well, yeah I think.

A

Like if we have, if our machines are working really well cuz, we're I mean we're designing them to be super rope, like literally we're designing our stuff to be like milspec life.

C

A

So there'll be an interesting conversation for later on. Once we have this in good shape, maybe they want to be falling around with a film and maker, so they can be sprouting open-source micro factories wherever they go as a the creative by-product mm-hmm.

B

I mean it all sounds amazing. um Well, I knew it before I get like totally distracted and, like you know, go off and, like my all, all of my all of my whimsical, doomsday fantasies. You know of building things that should have brought back from Iraq and Afghanistan.

A

Is in vogue these days, yeah, okay,.

B

Well, that's the thing like when, when Kovac came around my first I was like I wonder how much it's doing with those doomsday tractors.

A

Creative potential yeah yeah we're still working on it all right, awesome.

B

Yeah so anyway, like the TED Fellows squad, like asked me to kind of help them figure out what they were doing with social media, particularly with Instagram, because I was working at Instagram for a while and so I, don't know if you've seen if ever I've seen the account on it's at Ted fellow on Instagram, and it's basically just these like little vignettes about different things.

B

That's different that the TED Fellows are up to so I've started tinkering with it like in the past couple of months, so the last you know dozen or so poster the ones that have helped them make and actually literally like right before writers Cove it like kind of like introduced this lock down. That would just start it off on this, um and this kind of like journey to go around and like meet with fellows photograph them film them and kind of like put this stuff together.

B

So I was able to get one one trip out, because I was on my way back from Sweden when, like Trump and now it's like, we were shutting down flights from Europe, and so since then I've been doing this remotely. So it's a lot now comes down to like right. You know what kind of like photos or videos I can source from the fellows remotely and then just kind of do anything like you know some like quick interviews remotely and then putting together these these.

B

These little features so but I, absolutely like you know way before Cova died wanted to, like you know, come spend time with you and Katarina and, like you know, especially I, was actually really interested in coming to Belize and like seeing like you know, a house like emerge, like you know, probably envision like a time-lapse video of like this, like house sand, and we.

A

Got sunny my time was relatively decent, not yeah. I mean decent, not professional, but yeah like we could. We could have gotten some better, better material from that yeah. Well,.

B

I mean once transferring you know: what's like traveling like opens up again, I would love to come out and, like you know, visit you guys in you know, but in the meantime like, if you've got photos and videos, if you've got like a pile of stuff, you can send it over. I can look through and see what can be made, and so you know one view something on that. Ted fell and I'm happy to like.

B

You know if it helps you guys, I'm happy to like try to like chop together some things for you guys to use in your own social media. If you're doing that kind of thing are.

A

You talking about stationary images or like also video video.

B

Is it videos is great, like it's, it's actually like one of like the hardest components to find for like social medias like good videos, and it's kind of I tend to find it like most stuff, like works better with at least some video in it.

B

So usually it's like it's a combination of photos and videos and I honestly, don't always have to be like what you would think of as professional quality, because a lot of times you're, just kind of like editing short pieces of it like 15-second clips or five second Clips, so I, don't I, don't know what kind of like documentation you've made I mean I.

B

Remember seeing like you know, like you, there's one of the conferences where you oh no it wasn't you if a guy's from Kickstarter where they showed they showed your Kickstarter, video, I, think and I. Remember thinking that would that you know had a lot of great images in it.

A

Just copy this into.

A

I'm trying to get click on your link here that you sent me art matter, art.

B

Now and I'll send over the.

C

A

Matter coat so.

D

That's yeah, that's your friend.

B

Yeah, that's my friend Ben. We went to university together way way back.

A

Okay, got it and.

C

A

I got I got the link there.

A

Yeah, so tell me: maybe you can educate me a little bit. So what do you do right now? You still have Instagram er, no.

B

I left Instagram a couple of years ago, or not a couple years ago, a year and a half ago it was basically there was like kind of like there's a period where, like a lot of the leadership left, Kevin and Mike, who are the founders, left the founders of whatsapp left, and it was basically kind of like the moment where we are kind of like all nude like it's coming. Eventually we're like Facebook was kind of going to life.

B

A lot of these companies are gonna, stop being so independent and I kind of like the fun startup period, was over and it's about to turn into like a real job. So a lot of us were kind of like fortunate enough to come in early and like cash in on, like the sort of exponential, like rise of like Facebook stock, we're able to say, hey that was fun, take care and go up to live our best lives. So what.

A

Do you do now full-time, like.

D

I think that you're just.

B

I mean I thanks again to like the absurd trajectory of Facebook stock. It's a luxury of like doing whatever the I want for a while, so I, actually I spent like the first year rebuilding a couple of houses for my family, so I just knocked those out and it was about to like actually start wandering the earth again with the camera and then Kovac jumped into the into the situation. Yeah.

A

So so this is like you put together some pieces, for this would be for the Ted social media, yeah.

C

Yeah specifically.

A

What like, what do they got on their social media like their Facebook and do.

B

You have Instagram like loaded on the phone or you know like. Can you click through the window? Okay,.

A

Let's go to and I should have it on.

B

Put the the link is in the link to the account is in the is in the chat right, I mean know a lot of ways: it's basically helping the fellows, try to figure out like what is their communication strategy, because they've got a lot of stuff going on like where you know, there's there's TED talks, but not all Ted fellows have a talk online. Then there's like there was a TED medium blog there's the tent there's Ted has the ideas. Blog Ted's got like a YouTube channel, Twitter social Instagram there, but I would say this.

B

We're gonna one of the issues with Ted. The TED Fellows program is there's still quite a few people like who don't have such a clear sense of what it is and I. Don't think that there's necessarily like a single point where, like people, can understand that even even people within the tech community, so I think one of the thoughts is that you know Instagram could be, could be that place.

B

So that's just kind of the thing we're experimenting with, but I mean a lot of it just comes down to like. How do you explain like all all these kind of like wild and awesome things that, like to f ellos around the world, are doing oh yeah.

A

Man, oh, you could get some of our stuff and I can get you a bunch of so like, for example, right now, let me show you high-resolution GBCs media.

A

So take a look at this link right now.

A

Where is this thing.

A

A

Alright, let's see, let's try it again. Yeah take a look now: the YouTube like there's a you, have to wait through our windows, but our videos, but on YouTube we got a whole bunch of really nice like well. Actually, let me show you.

A

The top of videos- oh yeah, yeah yeah, pluck some of this there's. This video here take a look at that video from the summer X program intro, and then there was those steam camp jobs, the recruiting teachers. There's some interesting.

C

C

D

B

Looks good um and I'm wondering do you have like something like you have like a Dropbox where you put like all your raw video clips in or.

A

Yes, yeah good I'll just share it share like oh, my it's not Dropbox I just used Google video photos.

A

And where, as not loading up here,.

B

They'll be great and I mean here's. The thing like wanted like with like, with Instagram or Twitter, or any of these social medias there's like there's a very limited amount of information. You can ban these like kind of like five second or 10 second video clips or like the small amounts of text, so really in a lot of ways. The goal is always to like, basically send people to another place, so, like think about like what are the, what are the?

B

What are the URLs that you would want to want to link to like because ultimately, goal is, like somebody watches like a really short video or sees a photo on on the Instagram account and then clicks through and then go like those to one of your web pages or goes to like one of your YouTube videos. Something like that. It's.

D

Basically, a country.

B

You'd, like like a really quick overview of of the work, oh.

A

So this is primarily for Vince the grant page where they click from that yeah.

C

A

Yes, oh I can get you some more material. Ok, I'll, try to put together, but tell me more about, like the greater Pat like you're talking about social meat or like.

D

A

Talking about media strategy for.

B

Ted in general, like for the TED Fellows program in general, I think like one of the things like in general I'm trying to help them think about is like we're, not that there has to be like one place like one source of truth for like the Ted Thornton, but I. Think it's a bit scattered right now and I think probably Instagram is is the most.

B

If there is gonna be a central, a platform, it's probably that one it's just like that has that's where the audience is to a large extent they're. You know, Twitter is awesome too, but Twitter's. You know. Twitter has like about one less than a third of the user base at Instagram does so.

A

Tell me about Ted fellow, so let me share my screen here. So, okay, let's take a look at this, so we got nine hundred twenty seven pictures, 61k followers mm-hmm.

D

A

Eleven following: what's the difference between 61k followers and two eleven following okay.

B

So if you're having an Instagram account- or you know it works the same way on Twitter, you can both follow people and be followed by people and so 60 the number 61 thousand.

B

That's the number of people who are following that that Ted, the TED Fellows Instagram account, and basically it's it's fundamentally, it's not unlike having like an email subscription like so when they log it when they log into their accounts, they're they're gonna be seeing they're gonna be seeing the latest posts from people that they follow and so for the 211 following those are different, Ted fellows, who are on who are on Instagram.

B

So, for example like when we on the team, like logged into the Ted fellow account like we're, seeing like a stream of updates from from different Ted fellows, who are like you know, they've just posted their latest. You know their latest report or the latest thing that they're doing whether that's like a photo or a video or like a text in a piece of text just or you know in feed or stories.

B

So are you? Are you more familiar with Twitter.

A

Instagram less than Twitter, but Twitter some I don't use Twitter. So much I mean do you use Twitter, but not too much.

B

Facebook are like fairly similar in a lot of ways. It's this idea of like a feed like you know, you you log in, and you see like, what's been posted from people in your network and then you know. Conversely, people who follow you see, you know, see, see your posts. Okay,.

A

So so, for example, have you seen you know this? This is open source, ecology, I just got five pictures on there. Great.

C

A

So what should I do here like if to make this more post more pictures here, yeah.

B

I mean here's one of like the basic mathematical dynamics of of these social media platforms like Instagram is like super useful because there's a billion people there. So if you want to we, you know that makes it powerful. It also makes it very difficult because a billion people are a billion different accounts and it means that there's a lot of competition for attention.

B

So you know if I'm, following 200 people and they're following 200 people and every single, what everybody's, following in fact, I'm following almost 5,000 people, I, think or 2,000 I, can't remember it isn't really possible for everybody to see everything. That's posted. You know, especially if they're it's different.

B

If you're, like you know, if you have, if you're following ten people, then it's quite likely that you know you'll be able to see most of the things that they post, but most people after they've been on any of these platforms for a while or like enough following 10 people, anymore they're following you know, 200 or even 2,000 people, and so everybody's effectively sitting like a very small percentage of what's available to them. So then it becomes like you know, like the science becomes.

B

How do you get? How do you? How do you get your thing surfaced somehow so now, there's algorithmic feeds on most of these platforms, where you know there's effectively like AI is trying to figure out. You know if you're following a thousand people and then they've all the thousand people have each posted something that day, how do they figure out? Which of those thousand which ten of those thousand pieces are going to lock or should we put on top of the stack?

B

And you know whether, like you know, people of different opinions about like whether or not they prefer AI to be making those choices or them, but the really the fundamental reality is like almost nobody is going to be scrolling through a thousand pieces of content on a single day, and then you know the other thing is I. You know, but a lot most of these platforms start off. Pretty simple like it was.

B

There was like a simple feed like you, post a square photo on Instagram and that's it and now there's like stories, and you know, there's there's all these different surfaces among one platform. So there's stories, there's direct messages. There's this explore page there's and then it's not just you know. People aren't instagramming on Facebook they're on Twitter, the tic-tock there and snapchat. You know so, like the the amount of time that the amount of available time gets like spread out very soon.

B

So, for example, like you know with you, if you've you've posted like five photos on Instagram and probably not that many people have seen them like. That's, not necessarily your fault, you're, not gonna, start doing anything wrong. It's just there's so much stuff out there that that's where it becomes helpful. If, like a bigger account like I, say at Ted. Fellow does something you know you know: ship does, does a post of theirs about open source ecology or about you and basically you know at mentions your accounts. So you know the.

A

Only way I could do Instagram is through my phone or can I.

B

Yeah at this point is still I think you can only upload Moberly. They may have changed that I'm, not as to din since I'm. Not you know, I haven't been in the office in here, so so I don't know. If it's, if I don't think that they have made desktop uploading possible yet I mentioned eventually they will yeah.

A

B

Was a pretty yeah I got that.

A

No I was gonna, ask like for the TED Fellows Instagram. Do you want to do some interview or something like that? Yeah.

B

I mean I will I would say. Probably the first thing if like if I can see like what the visual assets are, we have to work with and then after that, I'll probably you know I'll send you some questions and I'll probably ask you a million follow-up questions is so I, don't like misrepresent anything. Ok, Oh cause this. The tech fellows like everybody is doing like is working in some field. That I am absolutely not an expert in. So that's always like my concern that I I, don't bumble like terms or yeah.

A

B

They scientifically or and.

A

Some of the stuff we talked about in the first 20 minutes of this conversation, I mean there's some cool stuff. There, I, like you, can draw from that. I can send you.

B

Yes, absolutely yeah I can see a link.

A

To this video to yeah.

B

Yeah I mean I would say like and if you've got like you know, I don't know like a short like if, if you've got a Dropbox, that's got stuff already or if you can make a Dropbox, it's got. You know, I think anything with like images or you know, videos of like tools and machine or and I think like from what I remember of that. Kickstarter video, like you, had a sense of that already like. But a lot of you know what this stuff is like awesome to look at time-lapse videos like things being built.

B

You know all of that. Yeah.

A

Yeah yeah, oh now, how do you put it on Instagram? If it you can do that through the TED Fellows Instagram, you don't need your own yeah.

B

A

Do you put in how do you do that I mean.

B

Basically, like I'm I'm, an admin on the TED Fellows account like I'm no I'm, so I have for like the login credential, so I just log in and I built. You know, I build the stories there. The.

A

Deal is that we said that you can only get them up from your phone. How do you do that? Oh.

B

Yeah I log into the app from from a phone I actually have like a separate phone that I use just for like Ted fellow stuff. Oh and.

A

You just pull the pictures off your phone. Yes,.

B

So, like, let's say like, if you send me, videos or I download them from your Dropbox, then I like I'll air I'll, edit them I'll, airdrop them over to this phone and then all and then I'll post from there. Okay.

A

Yeah, it allows you to post from your like your stuff, you download to your phone right, yeah.

B

So basically, I mean there tend to be some restrictions again, I'm, not sure what the latest is it used to be. You could only post things that are like, with with the better time stamped within the last 24 hours so like sometimes like it used to be. You have to like go and scrub metadata out of out of images or videos that were older than 24 hours, but I don't know that you have to anymore.

A

So why do they do that? It's because they want it to be more like okay, here's stuff we're taking from our phones and not like just all this stuff, you just pull off from everywhere. That's.

B

Yeah I think the philosophy was that that this was kind of more like live stream of life like didn't have to like be literate, live stream, but the idea was not that this was like that people's Instagram accounts we're not the same as their website, so that this wasn't like Flickr. It's not just an archive of all the things I've ever done in my life. It's not like all my favorite photos from all my vacations in the world.

B

It was more like creating this like space, where, like you log in the things you see, are things that are happening all around the world right now, yeah.

A

So suggestions is like when I, you know, when I'm out taking pictures just and you suggestions for how I go about making an effective stream.

D

B

I, don't I mean like that kind of a lot of ways that comes down to like you know what is I came first in photography or cinematography, but I also think like sort of by part and parcel of the social media ages, like we've kind of like rethought, like what our ideas are like. It's actually gotten to a point with with technology, where it's pretty easy for most people to make something like a National Geographic photograph and that's going to become increasingly simple.

B

As you know, AI basically kind of like becomes much more of the camera like a camera, becomes less of like hardware and there's gonna be a lot more software involved. But you know I also think like there's a bit of this like like now it's actually we appreciate the word you hear. A lot is authenticity, like you know, images that are raw and don't look so professional. So in the same way like punk rock and like hip-hop, like you know, there was like like it's, not it's not classical music.

B

It's not like you know a 12-piece Orchestra. You know ensemble playing violins and harpsichords. This is like you know, it's very raw and crude, and that's actually, you know the good thing about it. Yeah. What.

A

Would you say about.

B

Your thinking, yeah.

A

Yeah tell me more about how like possibly doing some kind of a like a TED Fellows retreat here like if people want to learn to build stuff and things like that. Well,.

B

A

B

Think would be awesome, I'd be there in a heartbeat. So how.

A

Do we do that like financially? Do we want to get sponsored or charge people, or how do we do that, we're just a free event or.

B

Probably you'd have to like get some kind of I mean the thing is I. Well, it depends like you are Africa what studio in Iowa, Missouri, Kansas City.

B

So less difficult for like fellows, who live in the United States to get there I mean one. You know we're assuming a world where there's airplanes. Yes,.

D

Yeah right, yeah and.

B

For fellows to come from overseas I, don't I, don't know, that's that's I, that's more difficult and I don't know. Maybe this is something that somebody would sponsor, but, honestly, like there's a familiar with some of the fellows like started up some kind of thing.

A

In Europe yeah.

B

The thing in Europe I forget what it's called. It sounds like it's sort of like you know. They were talking about some similar ideas and I. Don't know like. Maybe this is some kind of like a cyclical thing, like where doors there'd be one in Europe and there's one at your place in Missouri and, like maybe they'll, you know, somebody's got like a place in Asia. You know that could host and, like you know, year after year, this could be like kind of like a traveling mini TED, Fellows, convention of sorts or gathering I.

B

Don't know like what the economics are of like who who kicks and the money who finances this or all that you know, I think that all the global economy, it's like another thing: that's gonna, we're gonna, have to see how that emerges from from code.

C

A

C

A

So yeah I thought about that. A few times we'll see like later on see what happens with that it'll be cool like is there any tech fellow retreat coming up in the future, not.

B

That I know of but I think I mean I, think everything is kind of like up in the air like I, don't know, I got it. It's not something. I've really talked to the Ted team about, but I can imagine like, like literally in a world in a social isolation world like an organization, that's built around conferences, his fake fundamentally having to like rethink like some hey. You know it's basically having some existential, you know conversations internally, I would imagine yeah.

A

Yeah, as far as the writing, some of the art like I, noticed the the TED Fellows Instagram is linked to like if I click on it. It took me to some Paul by Ted Ted, fellows Ted ideas, ideas, blog mm-hmm, who writes for that.

B

Karen Aang, do you know her yeah.

C

B

C

B

There's an editor named Darrell Chen, who I believe is like the the top editor there and now. This is like one of like the good and like confusing things about like the TED Fellows thing. Is that there's so many different little editorial pockets that are all being run by different teams so but yeah the TED ideas blog? Is that I mean that's, and that is not just the TED Fellows that you know, ideas blog, writes about all kind of all things Ted. So.

A

It's Darrell Chan. You said your.

B

El chan is like I, believe the lead editor there.

A

And Karen's is a freelancer for them or yeah.

B

I believe so yeah yeah.

A

I, don't think so.

C

For example- oh my god yeah.

A

So Ted fellow I mean 61k followers. That's pretty good right! It's it.

B

I mean there's, there's a huge spectrum, so I mean I, don't know like Selena Gomez I was like a hundred million followers, if not more so in the realm of things like like I personally, have 40,000 followers, but there's a lot of this to which, like a lot of these numbers, are not really that not they're not as as significant as you might think, because it's the number of followers, if somebody has is kind of like the number of subscribers somebody has to their email list, there's no guarantee that does anybody is actually reading your email when you send, when you email blast it right to all your subscribers.

B

Yes, so I would say Instagram or Twitter or snapchat or tik-tok. Followers, like you could say, make the same analogy: yep.

A

But this people.

B

A

But then ideas that Ted calm is that, like the main outward-facing publication of Ted.

B

A

That's public right, that's not just for the Ted audience. It's it's a public thing or.

B

It is pop I mean all basically public Channel, so I was I mean for Ted, I would say they're fundamentally like their core public public facing communications channel is Ted calm, the TED Talks the online talks.

B

So if you think that all the ways ted has to like kind of like interface with the public, like there's, there's the literal conferences with like a thousand or two thousand people like sitting and sitting in a in a theater together watch when they talk so then there's Ted calm, which is actually where you know millions of people are watching the talks. Then you know Ted, there's Ted has in as Instagram and Twitter then test.

A

I'm, the one we're talking about the TED Fellows Instagram yeah,.

B

The TED Fellows, Instagram and Ted fellows Twitter is just about the TED Fellows and that's kind of part of an a part of it too, because I think there's probably there's a lot of people who like follow Ted in that tent. You know at Ted, you know occasional features, Ted fellows, but I, don't think. Probably for most people were following Ted social media. They may not know what the difference is between a TED fellow and a TED speaker right.

B

A

And then so like there's ideas that either come and then there's the TED Fellows blog right. That's at.

B

Pella blog, there's, I, think they're here, I think, there's yeah I'm, not I, think there's Ted fellows blog, there's also a medium channel which I'm not sure. If that's a separate blog I mean this is one of the things I've kind of talked to you about to show home and Lily and the other people.

B

A team is there's kind of a lot, a lot of different places going on, and you almost get this ascent of the similar dynamic where, if somebody's following so many different social media accounts, it's hard for them to like concentrate too much and any one of them.

A

Yeah, that's that's right! So, for example, if I looked at okay, so I'm looking at fells blog but I become that's medium and who writes? Who writes for that? Is that, like Karen.

B

Probably Karen and I'm not sure if the medium, if the medium blog is still being update, I think that might have been like they might have had some kind of sponsorship for medium where they you know, they ran that for a while, because I think the other thing with medium is like you can read a certain number of posts there and then they ask you to like pay for a subscription.

B

I mean I, can't really remember the dynamics, so I don't know they asked me originally to come in and like help them figure out like what to do with Instagram and then you know it started also like trying to sorry sort out. Twitter too, and you know it, kinda is hey. It's been expanding bit by bit, so I'm not I'm, not really sure about all things. You know the TED Fellows program or with what they're doing but I yeah it's one of the things to like think about. It's like how many different you know channels.

B

There are yeah.

C

B

Like Instagram is like a useful one, I mean I, think like I, had the ideas blog or like having a blog is is a good thing, because it's that's a space for kind of long-form, writing and believe the social media places like on Instagram, like even like a hundred or 200 words as a caption is kind of long. So you know this is what I'm saying before I think the the core goal of the social media channels is to send people back to other places where they can learn about the TED Fellows.

B

So if we were doing like a feature about you on on on the TED Fellows Instagram, the real goal is not to like tell them it. You know, explain to them like the the depth and breadth of your work. It's it's to Santa, it's to get them to click through to different places, on either on your web sites or on your your social media accounts where they can like. They can learn more, and you know, as we're kind of talked about before, once once they see your handle in that they start following you.

B

So then they'll start. You know when you post, like your ninth and 10th, and 20th and fiftieth posts like they're on there on your follower list now.

A

What do you mean feature on Instagram? You can only do pictures, but you can also do text or like just the.

B

Back so, if you think about, like you know, at least in the beginning, Instagram was I kind of very similar to whether in some ways like on Twitter, you write like a short, a short piece of text and you have the option to attach a photo. Instagram started the opposite. You can post a photo and you have the option to attach. You know some text. Yeah yeah Instagram over the years, is kind of like evolved into a lot of other things. So there's like the stories feature that was basically borrowed from snapchat.

B

You know and I would say.

B

There's a lot of like all these Facebook owned properties are kind of starting to like blend together in a lot of ways and all as they adopt each other's functionality. Yeah.

C

B

I think when Kevin and Mike were running Instagram like they were, you know it was their baby and was the thing that they made I think they. They felt really strongly about this idea that, like Instagram shouldn't, do on everything you know they.

B

They were really into this idea that it was like simple and lean, and then it was distinct from face o'clock and now kind of like it's been integrated a lot more and like it's hard to it's harder to separate, like what functionalities does one this one platform have that another one doesn't and then you start to wonder like okay, like should I be messaging, you on like messenger or direct or on, like you know, whatsapp or and what's up now has like.

B

You know like similar functions to stories, and you know, as does as those Facebook's so sorting out, which one is which, like I delight, becomes like a project in itself. Yeah.

A

Yeah yeah interesting so.

B

In a way, that's one of the things like for you to think about you, I was like yeah. You could spend your entire life uploading things stuff like a dozen different social media platforms, and you probably don't have you know the bandwidth to do that? So I think you probably like want to choose, choose choose the ones that you focus on yeah.

D

B

Would say definitely like try to get like your your your username on all of the platforms, just so what somebody else doesn't snag it and, like you, can at least have like him, even if you're not using snapchat or Twitter. You know you can at least like register the register than me have like the URL to your website. There.

A

Well, you're talking about Marcin or open source ecology, oh yeah, yeah.

B

I mean I, take it'll. Take you, like you know. Ten minutes to like you know, open an open, an account for either one so I. Just don't do it. So, if somebody's on Twitter looking for March and are looking for open source ecology, at least they company find an account that isn't run by somebody else. That's like.

A

B

Url for your website, yeah.

A

So I got to get rolling here, but uh maybe like last quarter so deal like with where we are in terms of bidness development. Do you know any people that I could talk to about it like I need help on the business development side, like any suggestions on that I'm.

B

Probably the last person on earth to talk to about this.

B

When you say business development I mean you're talking about like basically like how to like how to develop product like this into a saleable yeah.

A

Item yeah cuz I mean we got. We got like prototypes that are ready for mark like marketability and stuff. It's like we can spin off all kinds of businesses, but it's that's a whole another project right right.

B

I, don't maybe this is like, where it's like worth well for you to have a conversation with my friend and because you're in a way, you're kind of like I, mean you've been you've, been in this game long, a lot longer than he has I. Think but you're both going through like the same questions about how to you know, take these tools that you you that you started making in and how what how to make a business out of them. So I would say it'd be worth you guys.

B

You know, haven't having a conversation, just say what you can each other and who knows, even if there's over already, for you two guys to work together on something or another, but I.

D

Think, at least like you know, you're.

B

But you're both making interesting things. Thank you. I mean he'll, be blown away like the scale of the of the different things that you're working on.

A

Yeah I actually developed the 2.5 D printer or Ori. Oh yeah,.

B

It's like he's got like you know, like I, mean I've printed photographs with it and yeah I love them, I mean they're. Basically, it's they look like hyper, realistic paintings because they're their photographic, except like there's, brushstrokes and texture in it. You know so you're looking. This is not a photograph, but it's it's not a. It doesn't like this. Couldn't have been painted either and though it's almost like it basically transforms a photograph into hyper, realistic painting, yeah.

D

B

A painter he does all kinds of other things, so his like the ones that he's making her much more dimensional. So.

C

B

Yeah but he's got them running, he's got a couple of different setups. He started it out of MIT Media Lab yeah.

D

B

He's like got like a kind of like I think his primary base camp is uh it's in Kingston New York, like you know, and he's kind of like a hangar in an airport there. You.

A

B

Building in okay.

A

Yeah definitely connect me to him and then I'll send you some links to some of our media and you can ask questions or yeah I'll try to pick out some good stuff for you actually.

B

You know one thing: I forgot to mention yeah you're talking about like you know, retreats and that sort of thing it's a thought that I've had for a long time like- and this is something like mainly like I've kind of picked up from, like Instagram there's a huge community on Instagram of people like from the military, typically its former Special Operations.

B

So there's a lot of like Green Berets and like Navy SEALs, who now have these kind of like there's kind of a cottage industry of like it's basically like combat training stuff, mostly but I, would say it's kind of in the ecosystem of the prepper world, like people who are really kind of like basically training for like doomsday scenarios, and the thing is like typically like it's kind of tends to be politically fall on the right wing of the spectrum and I think there's a whole world of people who are now especially now, starting to think in a similar way like what do we do when this fragile world of ours cracks yeah.

A

B

Yeah well, the people I think who would love to go for like a week-long. You know retreat slash, training, seminar, that's not run by megawhatts. So that's something that I would you know so.

A

You know you know where those communities hang out on Instagram.

B

Yeah I mean I tend to follow them or I tend to like see a lot of it because I, you know people that I shallow or people from like my time in like Iraq and Afghanistan, but definitely.

A

The the collapse at Aryan market is uh is a good one for us look.

C

B

A

Of an open source, prepper franchise they'll be great.

B

Collapse to carrion, that's a good term I like that. No.

A

It's cool like I, noticed like there's a bunch of these collapse at Aryan franchises that are popping up like here. Have your spot and this in this bunker bunker facility until Armageddon comes yeah, no I mean.

D

A

Definitely like we teach from the perspective, okay, here's some tools and skills that can actually help you like, for example, with the 3d printer print, all your plumbing fittings. You know stuff like that.

C

A

I mean that's a huge, huge value right there. You know yeah.

B

The thing that I can imagine being like super useful is like yeah like a place where people can go for a week and learn. You know what how to do like. You know, do some 3d printing for that. That type of thing you know, look at see the see the possibilities for building their own homes, like you know all of the stuff growing your own food and then, like you know, like probably some things like basic, like weapons training for the people, who've grown.

D

Up in Davina's mushroomy.

A

B

A

Okay, caffeine assists hi, but we gotta go. We go into the store, but no that's good I'll. Think about it, see what uh what product package we can offer them but see. This is another example. This is like. We've got this stuff, it's about product development. That package for that market right I mean.

D

A

We could find some of the people I mean if they're are pretty cool. Open-Source minded people there they're more into the collaboration aspect. If we can get some help on creating that I mean that's. That's a big market there for all this kind of.

C

A

Yeah all right.

B

Good talking um send me a top box link, so I can like I. Look it like this in videos and and yeah we'll keep in touch. Okay,.

A

Thanks so much for talking about you.

B

C

A