Open Source Ecology open source product develoment, 11 Sep 2019

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From YouTube: STEAM Camp Curriculum

Description

This is an nvitation to potential instructors. Video goes through the curriculum that is being organized. Instructors collaborate on this curriculum. Here is a discussion between Marcin and Steve, collaborator. See our plan to scale the open source product development effort - https://www.opensourceecology.org/ospd-and-steam-camps/

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A

Because I actually think we've got the first for now for days like oh yeah, this is gonna come together, so.

B

I want to tell you about it, because that's also how.

A

We're going to attract the people that are going to help us so.

C

The steam can't business pot on the steam camp yeah go.

A

To steam, camp curriculum and I go to overview schedule narrative. ah So it's a sense. We got four days and let me tell you about it. So I was thinking okay, so we got to take products home. We want to have people develop, something that they get a wide skill set, that it apply literally to like 80% of Amazon. So.

D

I was thinking about that cuz we're.

A

At well we're about open source product development, we're gonna have to create people's livelihoods, we're all gonna work on it together. The incentive is that then, that 9th day of the steam camp, we're actually gonna have a business.

D

A

There's gonna be product.

D

A

The thing we developed and we're also gonna do stuff. Maybe like talk about how do we, you embed, like a storefront, either.

B

On a wiki on your website or whatever.

A

Like a little bit of business stuff, ok, first, four days because that's what prepares you for the generalist ose tool set! They want we're going to build a printer, the simple one, so it takes about half the effort of the big one. We can do that in a few hours from a kit great how many hour two hours three hours. Okay,.

D

A

A good kit, so that's I, need to prepare that. So that means that we push the simple D, pretty simple, just little details there. Oh, we.

C

Want to make sure that I'm understanding this so we're not printing and building a 3d printer we're assembling a 3d printer from a kit. That's already existing yeah, okay, hurry up and.

A

That and that simple kit, let me just paste this link to you. So just just to remind you, that's what it looks like so in the 3d simple, so I'm gonna build something like that. All that is, you can take a 2 by 6 2 by 8 as a platform you have. This. Is this whole long distance.

C

A

Yeah, it's simple: it's three axes, so the three Universal axes: yep. You got a piece of wood for the base. You guys sliding platform on the bottom and another ZX. You know so three dimensions all together great. These last few weeks, I've actually been expected. Like part of the Production Engineering. What I've been working on is wiring cuz wiring is you know, pain and ass, so I actually developed a way to I mean it's simple stuff, basically make a plug for the head. So it's quickly removable and go back to the magnet.

A

So we can replace the heads so they want. We build a printer. They we take that reddish printer head off and we put out a pen a simple plotter now. Why is that important? Because if you, if, instead of that bed, you've got a copper, clad circuit board, that's just a blank. Copper clad board right. When you draw it in with a permanent marker, you can actually draw the circuit and if you put it into a solution, you can etch it so with this device.

A

What I'm telling you is you have the ability to make up to like microcontrollers right there on.

C

This device, so that is.

A

C

Yellow highlighted East would be a board yep exactly and.

A

I've seen that there's.

B

A

I was looking on YouTube a guy. Just did that magically, so you can do you know like the little Arduino that controls this thing yeah you can draw that out, put it into solution and take it out five minutes later and you've got that board that you can now populate with the components to make the controller. It actually runs. This thing crazy! Well, so awesome so that's day, two perfect!

A

So now we covered 3d printing and we covered the making of circuits using the same device so day, three I was gonna, go with the Burton brushless electric motor. So now we use the 3d printer to print our motor shape with a stick magnets in there and little wires and with a circuit maker. We're gonna make a little controller for that brushless. It's a brushless motor. It means it doesn't have brushes to calm. You Tate the commutation.

A

You know, like the skipping, a positive and negative that that stuff is done electronically through the microcontroller, so we're gonna build a little little controller and we're gonna 3d print the motor. So now we've got the ability with the tools that we built before to go the next step, which is the motors so that's day, 3 I'm thinking. Well, what do you do with a motor?

A

Well, people have done these kinds of open-source motors to even run like drones, so it's actually there's prior art, where people did open-source 3d printed motors that were usable for drones. But for me.

D

A

The motor could easily go so take now, take off the pen plotter and put a motor on that XYZ axis, and what does that make it? That makes it into a small mill. So then you can start milling like you can do aluminum. You can't do steel because it's feel it's too hard, but you can mill aluminum with the device thing with the triple axes there. So you can do things like a little law like for the extruder.

A

You can actually mill the part, because the extruder essentially is a stepper motor and some other metal parts, the feed filament and then it gets heated through a heater element. But you actually know.

C

A

Right piece: yeah yeah, that's the extruder, it's basically a stepper motor. It's got the shaft on it and it's got like a drive cog that it's like a wire feeder on a welder I know. If yeah did you ever well, what I do yep MIG weld yep, it's essentially a wire feeder. The wire is plastic instead of metal and then SATA.

B

Heater element like the nozzle instead.

A

Is the heater element instead of an electrical conduct? It's here.

B

So it's like this is essentially like a wire.

A

Feeder except you're, feeding, plastics, okay, take that off yeah whoa. Okay, so we're saying we I'm telling you that we can build that extruder, those metal, extruder parts with that mill and to get there it's gonna, take a couple of steam camps like we're, not gonna get it the first time, but but it's it's capable of milling. Aluminum aluminum is pretty soft yeah and you can go pretty soft pretty slowly. So you can add so right.

A

There we've already went to three powerful CNC machines that if you understand how you build them from scratch at a small level, you can definitely scale them up. So we covered at this point the ability to do up to small milling with we have largely built ourselves. So now, on day, four I say: okay, let's, let's get some battery packs since I, don't you know, but, for example, the computer I'm using the Dell Precision m60 500, it uses the same kinds of batteries like did you know that the cordless drill use those circular 18 650?

A

So you have you ever seen that let me just get a 1860 I have a pop-up, cordless drill.

A

C

But you know: what's inside.

D

C

Will in one second, there.

D

C

A

D

Not know that either actually and I did not know that those cells are also in the battery.

A

Pack in my computer, what.

D

I call you should that is really cool.

A

So versus rate, this.

C

Is these are also it's loaded with 18 650, rechargeable batteries, yep.

A

C

A

The battery pack from a cordless drill, that's the backpack for a computer for a lot of things. So.

C

When you build this now, on date, on day, four they're gonna be making those exact batteries, while.

A

You buy the batteries. The trick is put a battery pack around that right.

D

B

And all we're gonna.

D

B

These cells, now that's.

A

That's China! That's okay! For now so you're gonna buy this cells.

C

Yep, and did you know that the Tesla car.

A

Uses these cells I did.

C

A

Thousands of these just.

D

Wired up together.

A

D

It weighs like a thousand pounds or whatever, but it's the same thing like Wow.

B

A

B

D

B

A

Things to electric vehicles and software.

B

So that Universal battery pack is is.

A

There now, what else can you do a battery pack? A very relevant thing is.

D

Called a cordless welder, you know those.

C

A

C

I did not know first.

B

Lady 31 on the wiki cordless, well they're, never.

C

B

A

Like holy cow, this.

B

A

Take ready welder, for example. This is.

B

D

Walter, calm and.

B

Let me show you that.

B

So there you go, take a look at ready, welder, wait, where's that.

D

B

B

That thing oh wait: where do you see it low? Well, I can't really see it there, but let me give you a better link, because you can't really see that's a cordless one. No.

C

This one was a cord.

A

B

A

Okay, this is what I mean. Okay, let's take a look at this other one. uh It's gonna have the okay take a look at this one.

A

That's that's what the whole package looks like the charger, basically, that box it's got those batteries inside of them. Okay,.

C

So the big box, stink, okay, the the box that talked to the left that says frontline on it.

A

C

A

Thing on the right hand, side they'll,.

C

Get the thing on the right hand, side yeah, it's just basically.

A

A big box full of those bat batteries well, but guess what? If we, the numbers were up some songs holy crap: oh yeah, get a load of that. So how about that for a product right? So, okay, so on day, four, which is part of what I want to do for the design challenge, make a stackable battery pack, one that you can take one and you can plug them into each other for higher current okay. So we've got a steam camp. We have 12.

A

People have made a battery pack made of six cells well 10 times. 6 is 60 cells and that's enough for like 10 minutes of welding Wow, we do a very simple control, because now, if you're at so say you're at 20 volts, but because the batteries are low voltage, all you need is a very simple Arduino, based controller to turn that into like a use, the same okay, so the universal controller. On the 3d printer. This is just that control panel. That's you've got a spill screen. You got a little knob.

A

You've got the microcontroller that reprogrammed can control the welder.

A

So, which is what I told you is like a descent of the stuff on Amazon, we got in four days.

C

A

You've got a construction set for the control panel, confront construction set for the universal motion. You've got a construction set for 3d printing making motors and scaling them, making battery packs and scaling down making circuits. So this is just crazy and I think this is gonna, be a killer. So this is day four days.

C

But this is not, it can't be wrong. No.

A

This is not, but it became the obvious outcome after I did all this I did last time. This.

C

A

C

A

Yeah I think this is gonna kill it I need.

C

To know totally you talk about empowerment, man.

A

I mean this is this: is out of control, I mean I, think we can haul everything out of the world like we, you know, I've implied this stuff. Oh yeah, we actually do real stuff. Well, here we're teaching students to gain real skills, building things that actually work, that in themselves can be turned into kits and products, and that leads you to the ability to make scale things that are larger, bigger. So.

C

You know what I'm going to completely distracted for a second it just it put it in the back of your head and I. See you there.

C

One of the things that I read about regularly is the lack of technology that exists in batteries as far as advancements we're becoming more and more dependent on batteries, and yet they essentially decay over time. Even rechargeable.

D

C

Are hard on the environment? They don't recycle well, it would be really interesting once we are successful with our incentive challenge to come up with an incentive challenge to redesign batteries. Yeah.

A

Yeah I thought that and I share that with you there. Unfortunately, a very destructive thing right now um and like whatever like Ellen musk, is talking about like the future electrical I. Don't think so, there's not enough. Lithium lithium is a scarce resource right now, we've got like 200 years left and if the battery usage increases like it's planned, we're talking about decades before all the lithium is gone, you can recycle it, but it's terribly like destructive, like whenever you mine it.

A

So so two things one is that during the design challenge actually wanted to do as part of it since we're open sourcing since we're making this transparent, we're gonna have to show that so I'm gonna have to go to China and you go to visit those mines and so forth in the supply chains, because that's something we need to be aware when we're talking about designing the ecological, cordless drill. So that's one side, the other side is I, think there's a solution.

A

I think the solution for what's after batteries I think it's hydrogen and hydrogen is uh like to explain the main theory behind it. So hydrogen right now people make a big deal out of in a sense that it's impossible to do right now, because the fuel cells, our high-tech, very expensive. Now they can come down in price and maybe they'll go them off, but see we don't need them. You can burn hydrogen as a gas in an engine.

A

So that's a solution for today you you're not as efficient, but if you're, generating solar hydrogen with wind power or solar, that's abundant, then I think that is still extremely ecological. Now, when you say that to somebody to an engineer, they're gonna be like what are you crazy? That's really inefficient! Well, they're, just looking from their little viewpoint, but I think it's extremely efficient systems wise to go with hydrogen that's burnt in regular engines and that's something we could do like right now after this challenge succeeds. As you said. Yes, the next things.

A

I was thinking of things like a tractor, but with that tractor we might say, hey we're. Actually gonna put a hydrogen engine on it. You know so so, yes, I agree with you and I see the the pain point there. It is there that we're gonna have to fix that and that's and we're gonna fix that pretty quickly. So so.

C

I wanna make sure I understood that what you just said is so, rather than focusing on how to make batteries in a different way, you're saying: let's design products, they consume a fuel that isn't necessary to include a battery right.

A

And on based on advanced technology that you'd, basically miniaturize that that engine yeah I mean they have tiny model engines, there's gonna have to be innovation to make that thing like not loud, cuz yeah, because that's an internal combustion engines. You can do that through heat other heat engines called Stirling engines, so there's other, but.

C

You could do that for trial there. How would you make a hydrogen engine for a cordless drill, yeah.

A

It has to be a just a tiny engine. That's that that's the problem, so you're getting really into the micro miniaturization side. Well, but there are things like I, don't know. If you've ever heard of micro electromechanical devices, there are things, there's technologies that I don't think that making a small engine is gonna, be prohibitive. We can probably do it now.

A

The other thing I will say if we're using a small thing like if we're really not doing things like cars, that require a ton of batteries but doing things like drills that require just one battery I think it's sustainable for some time, but but I would say like from the get-go. It's like! No, definitely you don't want to go to like cars with batteries, that's crazy, but for a cordless drill it may be. Maybe we'll find out that it's too hard to do the hydrogen on that or some other technology.

A

It might be that we we do end up with it or that we do. You know people developed whatever like carbon nanotube batteries or whatever that are completely sustainable and not made of scarce resources, so yeah, but I think the bottom line is from our takeaway. Here is if we develop a truly collaborative method where we're like thousand x the innovation. Yes, we can give this to those solutions pretty readily right.

D

Yeah cuz right now, I mean, if you think about it,.

A

Like okay, some guy in a lab, makes puffs like an MIT lab. Guy makes a puff piece all we develop this new new technology and I like to make fun of the like the academia, because a lot of that is what they do is because people don't understand it. They were like. Oh, we just invented this, and that and a lot of times it's really fluff.

A

It's stuff that already existed and they're really like trying to milk publicity, so in that and those guys are all competing with that next University and and that other group and then so imagine you put all of those together for a thousand next innovation yeah. We can really blow away through any technical chatter. So that's why I think like I, think right now we're in a stone age of innovation and I, see that, of course, with open source ecology that we haven't been able to speed up our development, but yeah I'm.

A

Getting you know, hopefully we're getting around that so yeah! That's! Does that all make sense, yep.

C

A

D

The okay: now, let's go.

C

Back onto our Jenna yeah, so man what.

A

Are we gonna build.

C

A

So that's up so I was thinking um the three things we have on our plate. Right now was, let's see so if you go to day five nine to scroll down at page, so I'm still thinking raspberry, pi tablet, cordless drill, aerial drone. Those are all pretty nice projects, I think, and what do you think of that? I.

C

Love the CD 559 raspberry Pik blit, make.

D

C

Functional computer tablet or a touch screen: okay,.

D

C

Freaking incredible I love that um cordless drill I, like that. An aerial drone I love that okay.

A

An aerial drone, what's cool about it, using our modularity stuff, use your cell phone as the controller I've seen an open-source project. That does that. So it's like oh there's so much prior art in there, and none of these projects are like really refined, but we can probably through getting these people together. We can refine these projects, they're just killer good products and just exciting and educational and scalable, but I load. You won't. You suggest instead of the cordless drill, something that you love again.

A

What a monkey we did talk about. The vacuum, robot I, love that okay, so maybe replace call it cordless drill with a vacuum. A robot and.

C

They're in it and I'll give you what just is my marketing mind kicking in all three of those products. A raspberry yeah tablet, a a robot vacuum in an aerial.

B

Drone are also great.

C

Gift items oh yeah,.

B

Oh yeah yeah there you go that's true.

C

B

Talk about one.

C

Of the most unique gifts you can give, somebody is something that they're gonna go no way. You made this nice.

B

A

Whereas the cordless drill that will be only for like my wife and and mechanical people right.

C

And those are morning, those are considered it more industrial than high-tech and you're talking about the tablet, a robotic vacuum and an aerial drone or considered high tech nice, where.

D

Is the corner, although.

C

There is a lot of tech in it is not it's not. Unfortunately,.

A

You know, even if you want to go on an Internet yourself, look up open-source Raspberry, Pi tablet, vacuum robot, aerial, drone and you'll find loads. So there's a lot of prior art and just like with open-source projects, you know the disease of open-source projects, the very few of them ever again, anywhere to a very refined state and those that do get proprietary. So here we can address that we can refine these products making really good and open-source. Okay.

C

Take me today not on day nine, oh yeah and Marky's hot stuff, yeah.

A

I haven't thought much about day. Nine, but all I know is that okay, we're talking about this is 80% of Amazon. We gotta be bringing people up. We got to be creating entrepreneurs who produce these things. So let's have some enterprise training and that would be first like we were building something for those four of the five days product demo day right, so people show off their products and then we go into like one thing: I think about a lot is the called the open source everything store. So let me ask.

C

You you, you have lost your video for a while, but I also lost your audio there. So I asked the question: I did for.

A

C

A

Yeah so on day,.

C

A

Nine first of all, we have product demos, yeah.

C

So people this is people basically showing everybody.

A

C

What they made yep.

A

And it's probably like the way I'd like to do the the complete project, just like in the first four days on a battery pack. What we've seen with a battery pack is that we can stack a bunch of them, a thing that each team made so there's 12 participants, 12 battery packs are made we simply plug them into each other, because we designed them to be pluggable into other stackable. We designed them stackable, so he can run a welder from it.

A

So now you sing holy cow now, like metaphorically speaking, we're bigger than ourselves, because we collaborated with the other guys. We just use their products and we work together. So that's really good and I think we can actually do the same thing with an electric motor. We can stack a bunch of them next to each other on the same axis, to make a more powerful motor.

A

We can design it in that way, so cool, okay, so for day 9, maybe the product devil will be something, but maybe we can design it that somehow we we combine like the product demo will focus, maybe on combining the things like out on how you I don't know like. Maybe we we introduce a it's a product demo to begin with, but but maybe we introduce an element of how we're combining the products into something bigger. Ok, anyway, that don't know much more about that.

C

Well, one of the ways you could do it is: could you create something that if the product is a drone, for example, thank you.

D

A

Yeah yeah make it like a super drone, cuz they're all connected. Absolutely there you go there, you go so you can now have a drone that, like is a real cargo drone, because if you have 10 drones together they can lift like a kilo or two yes, nice and we can carry like I.

C

Don't know just III, it's a great metaphor for what's possible when you collaborate versus things you can't office on your own yeah.

A

This is totally like with our brand. We should focus on designing elements like that. Yeah awesome so after that is that.

C

Also one thing I want to just go back on these 1 through 8. It feels like a lot. Is it and I? Don't have any context to this? You can just simple nope it'll be is good enough for me. The I want one of the things that will cause you to lose people if they can't complete each of these pieces in the one day you've allocated so for me, set.

B

Another way, if.

C

They can't finish some of their 3d printer. If they can't make a circuit board, they can't make a brushless electric motor battery pack packs in the day you've allocated. It has to be comfortable that the people with all everybody will finish.

A

Exactly- and that was the fourth that's when I talked to you about two months ago. That's the thing! That's scared, the out of me yup now, I'm, not anymore, because we're just gonna, say: okay, we're gonna, get six people working on that six people so like I, did a lot, for example, on a 3d printer. Second I can really design how to yeah.

B

They all go together and like to say three hours, but.

A

For the other guys, they say, the electric motor well I, haven't built. One of those I was hoping that she William would have done that, but we he didn't get that far on it himself, but now we're saying: okay, we've got the guy, that's the source of that, and he does that in his sleep. So we get him and then he collaborates and the the challenge. There will be too, because a lot of people don't think about the rapid build like we do so. The challenge will be yes, we're gonna have to have them.

A

Do that refine. It refine the distributed production engineering to the point that yeah, you can just put it together, because it's so easy I mean there's, definitely good precedent for kits that. Allow that, like the rapid build, so we're gonna have to invest extra upfront to get those well refined, kits that there's no guesswork like just super crazy, efficient, just like on a printer I mentioned about the wiring like the control panel, is kind of bothering me a little bit. It's like oh man.

A

Some of this wiring is too hard, so I redid it and like way, simplified it and yeah, and uh just for my experience when you do that, I mean I, don't know when you hit the limit of simplification, you can keep going and keep going for like ever. But but the point is yes, with the best lead, we're gonna have to put in the resources put in the the effort to get to that level of refinement exactly now, for example, just you know something that you could understand pretty easy. Let me show you this example.

A

How I can tell you that they we've got in a bag? So let me show you this and this. This is the kind of thinking you need to have to say: oh okay, we're going to nail the battery pack and a printer and electric motor just the same way. So let me show you this circuit plotter.

D

B

Okay, so take a look at it's on the wiki.

C

A

Pcb plotter hmm yeah. Well, it is, is a pen, that's your new head. Instead of the three printhead. Oh my gosh, this.

C

Is bro? That's.

A

C

A

So how long is it gonna take you to put that together an hour two hours and then, if the head is truly interchangeable with magnets BAM, one second, to put it on the printer one connector! That's why I made the head this control this.

C

A

Is open source so I'll talk to the guy? What's his whatever his name? Is this yeah.

C

You can I see this I see his face. Yeah, that's freaking, awesome, I, love it and.

A

And if you see the similarity see what he's doing see the rods that is version of the universal axis- and you see it's not so universal, all the three axes are different. All.

D

A

The two axes gets really. You really need just X Y and a little bit in a Z, but this thing works like really well like you can make microcontrollers with it.

A

So so so think about that for him to get to that level like where it actually all works, and it's all accurate and took them a bunch of time, but that's exactly what we do. We just refine it. You get there.

C

B

D

B

C

Do something for you?

C

D

The end of the Martian.

C

You don't have to wash it out this for later. That's.

B

Her later yeah.

C

That's the end of the Marcin okay.

B

Okay, oh nice, oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I. Remember that uh-huh.

A

Now he's schooling, people, yep yeah.

B

Yep awesome: oh.

C

D

Right so that's the agenda. B9 talking.

C

About business all so we about Devon day.

C

A

So we're getting people to think about hey. We can now design products. Why not get economic freedom if we produce them, because after all, all of life is like we, you know a lot of our cost of living is still very material, so let's nail it and then use that as a chance to pursue self-determination, so building that that whole big picture to it, you're gonna just do one thing here.

A

um So I've thought about this thing of the open source everything store so basically like Amazon, but it's a collaborative development platform. So it's just a name for the idea of we're collaboratively, developing things and here's the link open source everything store. So you can click on that link. Oh.

D

A

There's a go down to the document, but basically what we can do. What we can do is develop a template that you can embed in a website or even on a wiki. So you just Steve edited your wiki for the first time. Well, you can actually paste HTML code into the wiki as well, so you can say paste the whole code that has your product and you can start your own product pages on a wiki or on your website or anywhere.

A

But the idea there is so one we have the product, but two you can not only buy the product, but you can buy its production, so I'm thinking the unique thing like Amazon, you can buy products, but you cannot buy the business to make that product. So here we'll just take that one step because we're all open source by the production, so that could be a length to our enterprise, training or materials too, so you can buy like either training an e-book or whatever. So it's just a template for so we can create these templates.

A

So this is now gets into like web coding or like app coding, where we can devote a little bit of time to spin up a storefront. So he can embed your PayPal pay button or like a shopping basket button in there too, and there you go, send it to your friends by my drill by my drone, so I think a little bit of work on on a collaborative store that all the information on that store.

A

Like all the production engine, there is all open source, so anyone can now start their own website or productive activity with the open source. Everything store so at least to introduce that concept and start building the community of people that actually do that and then we'd have to have some standards and so forth. But it's something to develop fully. That's just a rough idea. Does that make sense. It.

C

Does Amazon won't let your products go on their site unless there's proof that they like that they're valid? So we would have to think through how to kind of somebody who wants to sell their own or a drill, get approved to sell that rely on. We got to think.

D

Through how we not.

C

C

B

For example, is somebody gonna send a you.

C

Know a piece of crap in a box and instead of a drill, they just ended row that doesn't work. You.

D

Have to send it, you know they'd, send parts or sometimes.

C

D

C

Their brand assistant action it's going to want to make sure ours actually are yeah.

A

So I think that's where the whole standards and licensing like the standards organization, part of our work like for the cordless drill, we're gonna, have to get some certifications or standards, both internal and external, so the quality control. This is the whole part about this quality control. Yes, oh, oh I see would have to probably function as a quality control mechanism. Probably people would have to submit a sample to us or.

C

People or like.

A

We have earrings.

C

A

I mean with the people yeah, we have to develop it, but yes, it's just it's another element to develop. Now. Stevie is saying: okay, that's going to Amazon, but here I'm thinking now like before you go to Amazon like out of this workshop. You could just embed this on your website. You.

C

Know you can do.

A

That on your own, do that here, yeah.

C

Meaning there is, there are no, you know, that's left, buyer, be aware, that's why things like Amazon exist. That's.

A

Work that kinda.

C

Rate that there's there's.

B

Assumption that there's some quality assurance being gone. Yes, yes, yes,.

C

A

Before we have the this developed, yes, it's like okay, it's adoption will be low, but it's just something you can do like even just for your friends, but also like what you can do is start putting in like. Why, like the wiki, is that you can embed into it like all these different elements like, for example, if you want product rating, you can get like a rating plug-in which actually is found within this course that forms software I mentioned to you.

A

That's got like reputations, like we talked about a little bit last time form software, the one that we want to use, which is open source. It also has a rating plugin. So you can embed okay raid this, so you can add, building transparency mechanisms and so forth. But yes, we'd have to build all that up.

A

But what I'm trying to tell you is that we can start from the ground up and building up all these modular pieces that once we have the brand around the open source, everything store and some certification around it and a community around it it'll become a trust, more trusted thing. So we.

C

A

C

Process in place, where you're getting feedback from consumers that.

D

C

That you can pull products office or shut it now, if your brand yeah.

A

Yeah this gets into now the execution of details which I'm not talking about yeah, there's gonna be okay, pal with distributed quality control, which nobody has done in a world right. So this.

C

Is the section.

A

C

You're going to include this as part of day 9 in your in your scene. Count then.

B

I think that we do have to.

C

A

Yeah, we would prefer to add a lot of value. Yes, but if you're going like, if you're going to DIY out where you just have a template, that looks attractive, that maybe has like the 3d image in there that you can rotate it.

D

Just a nice attractive.

A

Product page, if you want to take that liability to take that for yourself like put on your website for those people who are computer savvy, let's say: there's a lot of computer programmers come to our workshop. Well,.

C

They just Shopify and do into a pair.

A

Yeah yeah yeah they can use anything, um but why I thought this would be cool is I could say yeah you can go to Shopify, but maybe it won't. Let you have some of the cool stuff that we want to do maybe like by the production. I don't know. Maybe I can do that on Shopify, but.

C

A

Maybe maybe that's our solution for now we go to Shopify, but, but you know, part of our prop problem statement is okay. Shopify does that have open source code right because all right so so the thing is like about any of these platforms. There's a very clear, compelling reason why you don't want you do want to go up in sources because of the transparency aspect like, for example, you don't know if Shopify is spying on you or doing something else that you don't know, because it's not open source code. They you don't know like that.

A

Well, I, don't if you think about it that way, but any proprietary software can be doing other things than appear to be doing right.

B

C

Think that purpose for going for something like Shopify would be able to use their carts. You know you can transact business with simply a PayPal, that's what you had yeah and but the in Thursday.

B

A

C

This open source and yet right, yeah.

A

No, there are, there are open source solutions for shopping baskets and all that, that's definitely even in WordPress. That has it like.

A

Wordpress has the storm plugin and stuff later so yeah there's a lot of different ways: that's just a conceptually like I'm thinking. Yes, it would be useful to start talking about enterprise, because we really never emphasized that, though, in the last theme camp it was really encouraging how, when I started to talk about oh yeah, we're gonna franchise. This couple people lit up. It's like what you're gonna you're, just gonna, take a 12.5% cut like I mean I. Just took that from you. You know like yeah I'll. Do it and.

C

Of course, it sounds like well.

D

Two things one is: is.

C

As much as it's a revenue source for us, we won't have any costs over the associated with it. So here we're talking, it becomes manageable for them also revenue for us. It allows you some things: investment rise around OSC, but in order to also like it, because it will actually encourage them to get more and more students because and run more and more camps, because they're making the lion's share of the revenue and the that's. What we need is access to the students to get close to the song yeah.

A

Yep, do you want to go over the numbers for this poem camp yeah.