Open Source Ecology OSE Apprenticeship, 26 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: The Cost of Producing AR & VR Educational Materials

Description

We are pursuing the capacity of producing augmented and virtual reality instructionals for how to build the Seed Eco-Home.

What exactly does it take?

From this meeting, the answer is: 2 good, full time Unity programmers to generate the basic platform over about 2 months, at a pay scale of $100-150k/year.

The expected output for producing 100 modules in detail for the Seed Eco-home is about 2 weeks per VR module of 25 parts, and 4 weeks per AR module of about 25 parts in the assembly. It appears to be a laborious, manual process.

For 100 modules, that calculates to 200 weeks or 4 years of VR ($300k), and 400 weeks or 8 years ($600k) for AR. Initial work is 6 months ($150k) and the subsequent years could likely be done at $75k/yr. Total budget is on the oder of $1.0M. This would not scale well to all the modules we want to document by 2028 (50 machines x 24 modules roughly), so a scalable, open source process for achieving this must be created.

Because design evolution happens fast, the XR materials/instructionals would never keep up with the current designs, making this process a futile exercise without a significant effort to automate the XR materials production process so that any bill of materials can be converted into detailed build procedures. Significant innovation is needed here. What is the available stae of art to build upon?

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A

So the ideas we're applying for.

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The arpa Grant and this.

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Is once again come back through Jesse Jesse? We know through one of our collaborators.

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Starting the apprenticeship program.

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Open source, ecology, have you take a look at my TED Talk by any chance? Yes, yeah? Yes, I did um and that's the kind of work we do so we're starting an apprenticeship to build the housing. We also build the machines we do design work, we're.

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All over the place, this is a particular project to teach people rapidly about affordable.

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Ecological housing.

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To make it affordable to our approaches, basically, we need to get the supply of the supply of the stock of affordable housing.

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It therefore uh make.

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It more affordable and ecologically. For example, the the base model comes with five kilowatts of photovoltaics, so we're trying to push the limit on all the kinds of systems we.

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Also have the aquaponic Greenhouse that we've developed.

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Like to build as a part of the standard.

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Part of the package, as well as things like Landscaping, edible.

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Landscaping to make it quite integrated and.

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It requires integrated skill sets and that's that's why.

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We're reaching out.

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Because we think that augmented reality or virtual reality.

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Materials can really accelerate the process of learning English for all the steps and we're teaching not.

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Just one trade we're pretty much teaching integrated Builders.

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It's it's a very well-rounded program. You.

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To the tech school.

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Single skill, you learn everything and then you also have advanced.

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uh Tracks you can continue on.

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To the design track.

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Or Enterprise track so.

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A it's a package kind.

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Of reflected an ecological.

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Approach like you've.

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Seen in a TED talk with an early that.

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Already a decade ago, but we're moving to a real product that can be sold in the marketplace and training people in the form of an apprenticeship. So.

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The question would be.

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Can we collaborate with UMKC.

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And uh I know: I visited the free enterprise, Research Center.

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Know there's facilities there for AR VR I'm, not sure what facilities you have or where you operate out of, but um how.

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Can we make this happen? I do understand that this is I mean this is about getting the to the very details.

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Like, like you mentioned,.

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It's not going to be easy and stuff, because yeah.

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Each part of the build it's a very intricate.

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Procedure and we have to be able to capture.

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That in a virtual environment, so I know that would we we have.

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A highly detailed CAD file I mean it's not it's. It's quite complete. It's not.

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It doesn't have uh LD 500, it doesn't have every single part in every single Fastener.

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But actually we do want to get to the.

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Could absolutely complete file.

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Including the Fastener, so you can actually in.

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The AR VR, we could also include those little details like that. Not just how you build it, and you know some random passwords notice, like every single part, is accounted.

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For so it's a really uh rigorous training for the people.

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Yeah I think I, look at your overall uh I think in the long run over it's doable, but you you also know because the UMKC is a university right.

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When we work on the project, many we evolve. Students, children are not like the outside people. Full-Time employee, like they can fully devote to work on any project right because they also have a class work.

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So I think that's the concern the unity has, but we are not like a company so like because you hire the people, then that you do.

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So that's the reason I want to discuss with you, because you.

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Notice it up if.

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We work with you, then. Certainly you need to involve students like.

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The student as I said they.

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Have their time limit the consent so.

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You'll also depends.

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On how like whether you you need to deliver like in a very quick turnaround time, you know what I mean, because.

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In order to build a very realistic environment, it takes time. Yes.

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Yeah, so, regarding schedules, the the grant.

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That we're applying for is a like a two or three year, Grant, so I'm looking at it. This wouldn't definitely not be like quick.

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Turnaround times it's like all.

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Incorporate the the virtual materials as.

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Them but I do understand that.

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Would be, we won't depend on that initially.

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We'll teach people.

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In the most effective way, we can.

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But over time, so so we wouldn't have the time pressure, I.

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Think, that's you know two or.

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Three years um or.

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How about the the uh another way? How about let me show you a demo, the demo, the work we did before.

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Sorry that was the question.

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So how can I give you a demo demonstration the.

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Work that we did yeah okay, let me uh okay share.

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The screen with you yeah.

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You can see my.

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System, we really wanted to create different testings, showing different idle use cases for it. Now, in this first scene, we focus on Ile for robotics training, where you just can pick and place objects within a virtual environment.

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Now the different display contents, such as the images, video and 3D models and textures, can all be updated at runtime by human or an AI system.

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Now, for this implementation, we have an AI system directly integrated into the loading process, which is used to asynchronously assess users after ensuring that they met the objectives of the task at hand using a previously proposed confidence estimation system. Now in this next scene. We work on a task that involves labeling the different components of masses, acrum stat, which is part of NASA's Earth, absorbing Earth, observing System Program.

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The proposed system can also correct, collect a variety of multimodal data which can be directly fed into an AI system for inference either for research or application, including controller and head pose hand pose, as well as collecting data from external devices as well Now by modeling the learning process as a hypergraph rather than a list. We can model the complex relationships between different scenes and try to account for different learning.

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Styles now in this final scene, we're showing an example of using this system to create a scene for building alkane molecules in a chemistry classroom now, content adaptation is also imperative for the system as making sure that we can update this content um in a way that is not malformed and also the user's view. We can create an ILY experience that is nearly seamless.

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Okay, so this is just one of the table.

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So uh I don't know whether this kind of align with. Why you in mind.

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So so the molecular assembly, which you showed there, that's what we do so so.

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um What we have is, let me see, maybe.

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um Maybe I can show you.

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I think I need to use here the screen, let.

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Me see I'm thinking.

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You can Shield it okay, uh let me see what the best place to show you uh well.

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Of work that we assemble.

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Okay, so let me share my screen. Man.

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House, okay, the house looks like this and.

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This is demo here, um but what's.

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Unique about it is that this house is made of.

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Pretty much all.

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Wall modules that look like this so.

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It's basically two by six Lumber, very simple stuff, um so.

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Each module is like the Standard wall module uh just simple backgrounds here, that's how they look for just a plain old wall: module with sheeting.

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On one side, let's say but and.

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Pretty much all come together.

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One after another, with a big team of people.

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We have, for example, just you.

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You build these things and.

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There's more complicated modules like, for example,.

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um Naturally, there would be things like doors.

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And windows, so this, for example, this module here. It's also four.

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By nine, but it already has the aperture for the door and stuff like that.

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And it might have some other elements like, for example, we have a piece of PVC on it actually.

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Some electrical.

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Parts or plumbing parts.

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And then there's other like this is more.

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Is one by one you put, for example, the whole floor on the second floor.

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Up one by one, but but each of these.

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That's, for example,.

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Like if you do plumbing assemblies like.

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Okay, you put these things screwed together, Etc, um so.

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That, for example, imagine a student being out there.

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Say they're practicing this they're taking the actual component of a piece.

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Of pipe here, the.

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Toilet the actual.

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Drying system and putting together the pieces one after another in.

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A sequential order and.

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All this kind of stuff, like pretty much broken down and I.

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Mean we've got a lot a lot of documentation here. Hundreds.

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Of pages of documentations, and how all.

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This goes together, but it's like.

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Of a four by think of four by nine modules, how they all.

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Together, including certain other electrical.

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Or Plumbing components or.

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Utility components.

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Within them, now um what you showed about the molecular assembly I.

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Is exactly this.

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It's like you put once one piece of lumber after.

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The only difference is that you might actually have a.

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Sequence of one step.

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After another, you.

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Know like, for example,.

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You're building a window, you there's a very particular order that you need to follow.

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um No problem yeah, yeah and.

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To get into because.

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The entire house I mean this. You know like details of how you just just.

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About everything here isn't CAD like, for example, if I show you.

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Like how extensive the so.

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Actual as built, but if you look at the cat you'll notice that we have extensive extensive um yeah.

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Know the master files we've got files to reach.

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Pv and interior and plumbing and water um cabinets everything they're all together, a.

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Lot of a lot of the details, so we have a lot of that info and of course you have to upgrade.

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Maybe I mean um so.

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How did you create create all those component use AutoCAD.

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To create those or.

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We're using freecad, we use all open source.

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Software so flat is.

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Fully capable of doing that, there's assembly workflows, there's this final element analysis. If you know how to do you.

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Can extract the dimensional drawings out of that, so we use that as our Universal platform between.

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Actually, that and another open source software called sweet home uh like those renderings. Those were.

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Done in Sweet Home, it's an.

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Easy piece of software to learn, but.

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Assuming we have all the digital files that it turn turns out to, we have to generate the build procedures, I.

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Mean I think what could be.

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Is you've got on.

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I mean there's two routes: one is that you've got augmented reality.

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You're you're put in.

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In front of you or put a.

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Bunch of the components say for a complex assembly and then you're, guided okay, put the the augmented.

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Reality identifies parts.

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And helps you okay, now put this part.

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To this, so you can get training.

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Like that, the.

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Other route is 100 virtual.

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Where you have.

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Bill of materials- and you have a hand you whatever manipulator, so you can put things in order, one after another, completely in a virtual environment.

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If we could do that for.

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Okay, say: here's.

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The one of the wall modules.

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With a lot of different components in there and things.

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In very particular places, if we could have people assisted like that, then the ultimate Vision will be literally take the.

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Person off the street, the person.

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Who can use this.

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You know a screwdriver and a hammer.

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Yeah they can do.

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That all without prior preparation.

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Business making the learning curve.

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Much after just a basic orientation, you can get the.

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People out there to the real work site and actually start building real stuff yeah.

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I think that you locate a virtual reality.

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As you say that you use the hand of screwdriver like step by step to teach you people how to assembly the the scenes together, I think.

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This could be can be done, okay, so the question is for.

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Applying for this grant um can.

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We yeah, you know, do you have the resources.

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To actually execute on is that: do you have people that we can hire through this Grant from your team or how.

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You see this, how.

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Could this be actually realized.

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Okay, excuse me normally University involved, certainly normally we go through the either the grand or contract. Okay, I. Don't feel that you're familiar with the like, like a University faculty, walk on the outside project, like a company, give us a project they're in the universe, University will take so-called indirect cost out. That means you use the university.

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Umkg in direct calls the rate, 56.5 percent.

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So then, if you take like 100 000, they would take the 50.6 thousand out of your your your grade more like the indirect code than the faculty use the rest of the money to hire people. That's one way. Another way you you kind of directly kind of identify our students directly hire them.

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After the university like to bring in the project and charge it during the record, so you know he can get something so so.

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There are different way.

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Gonna because I think your work is really really important to the world, so I really.

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Advise you to pay the.

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Effort so I really want your. Your work become a very success. The.

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Way, I added, if you receive a gather, the funding, why don't you just hire people from outside full-time or you know they have time to directly fully work on your project.

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Your project, because University we get a budget. Normally we will hire students to do that and the students may have their content because the classes homework assignment right.

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So so that, because I really want you to be success, so so that's the reason. Normally you know they may say Okay welcome to to give us a project. We will do it, but I prefer giving you the maybe the more option. So you can conceive it.

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Yeah I mean so, are there good groups in Kansas.

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City or where would these people be, this I mean it's basically.

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Can actually do the.

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Work, who can we pay uh yeah.

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I think if you have the money, so there are different channels, like you can advice like like India those kind of the the places for you to post you. You need some expertise like that. Also nowadays, for your project is very not necessary. They must be in the Kansas City right. If you have projected even in fact Nationwide you can find people and they not necessarily for them to be in Kansas City to work on.

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Your partner, they can do this remote yeah. Obviously, if we can.

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I think the question is.

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Who, who would be qualified to do this I.

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Think yeah a lot of people I think there are a lot of people can do that. Certainly uh either path. I I was able to recruit the very cool students so now I just go to the UMKC I. Don't know whether you know that I moved from Miami to Kansas City on July 1st.

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Also, because of my sensation, but I was able to recruit the top student to work on the project. But, however, I believe there are enough tailored in the country. Can do this work because I I really.

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That your project can finish it and impact to the whole whole country, whole world, yeah, yeah. So.

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Leader I I kind of very honest yeah, so.

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I mean what is the thrust? The main points of your research and development work that you do I mean is this: are you actually developing some.

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Of these I mean you are developing some of these techniques.

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um Yeah the the I I started to do this. I can I can show you my another table because.

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Was in Miami right, yeah Miami, we have a hurricane yeah, though the government.

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Every time hurricane come, the government just showed the 2D Maps Okay hurricane coming like this, but for the.

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Innovative goal for them to perceive how danger it is for this incoming storm right. So then I begin to divide the social visualization to let the people understand. Okay, I.

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E

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Now: okay, okay, the continued it. You know when testing.

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Go to the next one, yeah.

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This is a visualization based on like real Terrain. Yes,.

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So this is the example: I started from this wall right. This is so the power of the role that the building are in the geocoded. Exactly.

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We show people this that people can easily understand. Okay, so the way I started from from this.

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Doing the arvr for the for the training, for example, we use that we have a so-called Ikea facility for network in Miami, so we train the more than 300 firefighter.

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How to respond because firefighters, in real normal training, they just use a binder right, follow the SOP, that's it, but we use a virtual reality to show them how to response. As a team, the.

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Fighters that it was very, very effective.

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Than 300 firefighters in Miami was.

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There, like a group like in a yes.

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Environment to train them.

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Yeah yeah I mean the idea there would be to train people on an entire house bill by taking a.

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And actually work as a team.

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Event happened. They all come from different different places, right yeah, but if you don't call the name it, then it's a mess. So.

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So that's the feeling about yeah, similar.

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To when you build a house, you.

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Have a different Builder.

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Right how to coordinate together, yes, yeah yeah as a team.

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Workflow right.

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So so you would suggest.

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um That we can.

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You refer some good people that we can potentially.

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No uh because uh the two people that I would normally they're my previous student they'll find a very good job.

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So now I don't have the station yeah I don't have a space in it because they all have a full-time job right now, foreign.

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um So about why, why is that eventually, I think this is my job here we will begin to produce train more cool students at the UMKC yeah become.

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Capable yeah, then we provide the workforce then to.

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Fill different projects.

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Is there any TurnKey software right now that we can use.

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That use utility.

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Is a good way, Unity.

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um So with unity, can you, for example,.

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um Immediately, like the.

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Functionality of taking a.

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Bill of materials and being able to manipulate that and build Parts I.

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Think so, yeah yeah something.

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You need to write code yeah.

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Yeah yeah, you can do that the example that I show you.

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Right, this is a.

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Right, you, you have a different component. You can assembly them together the children step by step. Yes,.

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With the hurricane or.

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Typhoon whatever was that done with unity, or what? What Engine original.

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We convert to Unity volume.

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What do you and that works in C sharp.

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Yeah Unity, you defaulting programming language. Is she sharp yes yeah, but but you can use the python to fill the machine learning model. The eventually plugin.

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If we talk about producing for the purpose.

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Of a grant, uh how would you handle.

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We want to produce these instructionals module.

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By module, we can say, there's like 100 modules for the house. uh What.

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Kind of budget are we looking at? Do you think.

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Know each module that takes perhaps like.

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One hour like in physical Time, Each.

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Module may take.

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You're good it, you know it takes like half an hour between 50, actually between 15 minutes and.

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Two hours, depending on how complicated it.

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Is um how much uh pay pay time would it take to develop? You know a model that, where you assemble the entire house.

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Because yeah I, don't think about you, the the student begin to be familiar with everything like my previous student.

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The defensive time, but in order to build a more it, cannot be adjusted environment. It takes time I.

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Was a budget wise.

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Because also because the university will take it, it needs to have the money away, so I would say that each year uh probably need to have at least the 100 000.

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I mean how many full-time people, if we want to say to.

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Devices, you may be surprised because of the overhead yeah.

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Year, even you cannot hire a full-time.

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uh This is a hundred thousand dollar budget, realistic for some other companies.

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Will take half the money away right, if you like, say 100 000, you know what he take 56.5 away. Yeah then there's the money is not enough to even hire a full-time, so or higher student means. The higher student like 20 hours per week.

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F

I think that's it. Okay! So that's the reason, I'm very kind of very honest at the beginning to tell you University environment. We do have some overhead, but if you from outside you directly use this, let's say: 100 000 to hire uh one full-time people who do you work on your project? It's different.

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You think that would be more effective, I.

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Think so yeah University may not like my answer, but yeah.

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Want to help you make your project success I. Think probably there will be the better route. In my opinion,.

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Is very, very important to the country so yeah, even you, maybe you can find some people. They are worrying more like a work on the project with a discount rate because they really like your vision.

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Yeah absolutely.

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But just to get an idea in order to program up like say a full assembly sequence like based on your experience with, say the molecules like if you've got.

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Well-Defined Parts the build.

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Materials like the module, let's say.

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It contains 20 to 50 different parts. Let's say how long does it take? Do you think to to produce.

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A

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You through that process, like one one module four by nine feet, It's gotta, say 25 parts.

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How much programming time is required? Is it more about developing.

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The system to handle any bill of materials yeah.

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Both you need yeah. You need to develop a system, this kind of virtual reality, environment.

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First yeah.

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When you have that, then sure, then you can use the UI existing component begin to assembly. Then with a sequence, then then come out the good like a video, however, to teach people.

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The the the the the beginning at the beginning to develop an environment the platform take time.

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I will say that probably the six months- okay, I'm talking about the really cool people, six months- that you'll be able to build the something and the first component will be ready.

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D

Months with two people, two-person team or.

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One yeah: if the one person depends on their budget like one person how much money you pay, you will do the good people I believe in six months you should be able to produce at least one company module, we're teaching people.

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Are a lot of programmers out there? They say they are good, but they are not good.

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Once I'm talking about the hotel people, yeah.

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We have the one module: how much time do.

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Think the subsequent ones that are similar.

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Become easier, much easier, your programming environment, already kind of embrace in.

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See if it can speed up.

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Do you think that we can generate each module in order of like 40 hours.

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In order to understand the whole sequence also sometimes take time right, you equate to the programmers and programmers and begin to assembly the all the components sequence by sequence. It takes time, I won't I, don't think like 40 hours, you can produce another big module. No I think it takes time.

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uh How much would.

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You estimate for.

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A module with say, 25 parts.

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35 part only yeah.

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You already have.

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A system I think one language probably is: it is possible and.

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D

That time scale pretty much with complexity. So if it's 50 Parts it'll.

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Be two weeks or probably.

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Yeah, probably again.

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The programmer or the people operate become much more familiar with then, since can speed up in the IT world right the good people average people make a huge difference here. So what I just describe the timeline? If you can again find the right people, maybe you can shorten the time.

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A

D

You would say, like six months of initial setup time to do.

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The first module and nominally we.

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Can say for 25.

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Parts around a week week, time yeah.

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And that process should.

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Be scalable, modular and complexity. So if it's.

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It takes accordingly.

F

Yeah but your team begin to be familiar with the whole process, the the you can speed up.

A

Okay, so that would be, for example, for the assembly, where you have gloves that you wear that. That sense.

F

Yeah yeah yeah, what's.

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The hardware required so.

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I guess with a headset and the gloves.

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That the sensing of the positions, how much is.

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That I think maybe they should be now right.

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D

It all depends.

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Whether you want to have a TV screen right, you know sometimes show people, but you see the the hardware. Investment will not be that big, not.

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That big so per I mean say we're actually training.

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A number of people on this I.

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Mean would it be like what 500 or a thousand dollars per set or.

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Yeah, you can look at the market. The Operators I think now is very popular, but people use this for the for the game. Game play.

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D

F

Yeah, just look at the market price that you can give some idea: okay, how much so yeah or people use a horror, then tools, Microsoft Facebook, then.

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So we were describing the the virtual reality now, what about for augmented reality systems where it's about parts.

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That you can, like you, you begin to have a real real devices like use the right. Okay, you put this through the pro into here, then turn no. You can do things like that. More detail.

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D

To set up a platform like.

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Using existing state.

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How long would it take like.

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For example, we've got 25 parts to assemble this.

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uh Plumbing Assembly say.

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Parts and it and it recognizes that the parts for.

A

You and it guides You by augmented information. uh How.

F

Long, the augmented reaction, because those kind of things uh kind of quite tedious not because now nowadays, there's no automated way for you to bypass them. Okay,.

B

F

To to edit the organic relative, it takes time. Okay,.

A

So, once again, how much time would be? Would we be expecting.

F

Yeah, this I, probably will take much longer, so I will probably give the bag of who is probably also very tight. I would say, one month again depends on how familiar with when the team becomes more familiar with. Then, since can speed up okay.

A

Now, there's also are you assuming another, like six months to a year like learning curve to get to that software or.

F

That's yeah yeah, so now you can do both simultaneously, then via the VR environment and AI environment. Simultaneously. Yes, yes,.

A

Exactly so, what about six.

B

A

Be uh enough for.

F

The uh the VR air environment- let's pull this way, that's right! You, you divide the VR air environment simultaneously,.

A

F

E

F

Yeah finally, the right people yeah by the right.

A

People but yeah, of course, you'd have to find the right people which probably the tricky part, um and that.

F

Okay, because I know that because I.T party, you probably also don't know because now the theory go up very fast.

A

Yeah, cool and and as far as generating you know, one module of 25 Parts. Would that be like comparable to the to the VR or you you say it's actually.

F

Yeah, it takes more time because yeah, you need to add more detail- information, yeah, you're right so so.

A

It takes more time more time, would you say like double the time or yeah.

F

Probably you can say probably the double time, because it's quite tedious, you need to do this manually, yeah.

E

A

Is anyone developing the automated platforms to achieve this.

F

Oh, no, no! No! No! No! No! We! This is part of my research. We try to do this automatically, so this is the part of the research agenda. I.

E

See, that's not there.

F

Not yet a lot of people use the vir to teach people right, you have different materials now create. The content is very very time consuming.

E

Now, for VR air right right.

A

um So, regarding.

B

um Potential people to.

D

B

You said, um that's the hard part. Do.

A

You have any suggestions on that does Jesse know the.

F

People I think I'm sure the the whole country, even the California. There are a lot of Kennedy people can do that. Okay,.

A

Okay, but you don't have any specific ones and that you can recommend.

F

No because my previous, my former students are good, but they have a full-time job. I, don't think that they will take it yeah right.

C

But otherwise yeah, if they are here.

D

Then I will tell you uh you can.

F

Give you the project to me and I wish a delivery right, but now it's because I'm in a position, so I don't want to delay your project, because this is a very important project. Right.

C

A

Right right, exactly um now, if we were were to work with you and.

D

But there's the.

C

Delay I mean what is the time frame that.

B

A

Could actually work on that if we were.

F

To normally I'd like to do this very quickly, I, don't like the weight but I I'm new here, so I I need to identify the team now. Also, at the same time, I I try to convince here to elevate the data. So then you can, you can train the mass. It has been much more capable producing.

D

F

We have enough capability, then suddenly I will tell you uh we can tell you, you don't need to go out to find other people yeah.

A

So but you're saying that's now is not the right time. No.

F

Yeah because now because I I don't want to delay you because I try to build on my team, so I hired a lot of students, but so far they do not impress me I mean those match those to them. They do not. Invest me.

B

F

B

F

Or average huge differences, yeah.

A

No, it's I understand.

D

The part about the right person by all.

C

Means because some person I mean it's like 10x difference between different.

A

People um definitely.

C

Keep this mind for the future, like, as you set this up, you.

A

Know come back to to us because.

B

F

Gonna be doing this for.

A

Everything that we do so we're going to.

F

Need that yeah I think again, because your work really impact to the whole world.

D

I really doesn't matter you yeah I, don't know yeah.

F

You come out of this idea very, very, very cool.

A

Yeah yeah exactly and.

C

And just maybe to wrap up here so so in terms of the budget uh effort.

A

D

The right person.

A

We're talking full-time for.

F

A good person is.

A

Undertale enough.

F

A

How much how much do we need.

F

That uh I will say the 150 000.

A

Per year, okay per.

F

A

The kind of person I.

D

Think in California I.

F

Think this is quite common in order to find the reasonable two people.

A

D

We should, if we look for two people to work on it, full-time for at least a year. We should put in 150k.

A

Times two as the base yeah.

F

A

They do the initial work can lower pay. People do the afterwards, like after.

F

This probably yeah, uh depending if they they do a good job, so the platform kind of easy to maintain sure. Then you, basically you use the same platform right. You just spend the time to create the environment edit, the the augmented information right, those kinds of things that you can lower them to pick yeah.

A

Would that skill set be like basic python or I mean experience, Python, Programming or yeah.

F

But like a familiar with the unity either you you decide to Unity, that's my recommendation. Use the unity.

B

F

At the beginning is the open source, the freeway so use Unity use.

A

Unity, don't, for example, use uh Godad or something.

F

E

F

You use Unity yeah, then you can find more people, because more people are familiar with the unity yeah.

A

F

Not become very popular right.

A

And then after the Baseline is the.

D

A

D

C

A

Scale for the person that can take it from once: we've got the basic platform.

F

No, you take the the team, create a different uh unit. Module then uh yeah, you can scale it down and hire. Some need. Mediocre programmer are familiar with the unity, okay, that's to maintain the environment and then Korea and those kind of different modules.

A

Now, what's the budget for that? Is that like 75 a year or 100.

F

Yeah yeah, it depends on location by the way it depends on location, yeah,.

E

C

F

Kansas City I think in the doable. Okay.

C

F

This is, you know, San Francisco, then much more expensive.

A

Would it be close to 150 or yes.

F

Very very expensive: okay.

E

Okay, yeah this.

F

Company uh paying right now yeah good people they normally now now they pay around 150 is quite common. 150K is quite common.

A

Yeah yeah 150 is about right.

F

In Kansas city is.

A

The rate still above 150 or would it be lower no.

F

No, you can't say CD because it even close to martial law.

A

So in Kansas City could we find somebody for about 100K per year to start a.

F

E

Okay, the tops you're talking about 150.

F

Or so because of leaving.

A

F

A

C

You have a budget of more than 150. Does that mean that.

A

You can actually find even better people or no like one.

F

Yeah yeah yeah, so.

A

Even if you can shorten the time shorten the time, yeah, okay, yeah, okay, I.

E

B

A

Sake, we probably should be looking at 150k.

F

Yeah, why I still have my team here? I probably can deliver less than signals.

F

Probably if the student, the fully focused then even probably three months is possible.

F

Why is I'm even talking about the PhD students right when they finish all the post work and then all their time uh a kind of doing research? You know I mean then they can be more focused to work on projects. Okay,.

C

A

C

Saying we should not be considering.

A

That right now or we can be considering that right now, you.

F

Mean that the high school student yeah, no probably not I, think I will say because I really want you to have your your work ready as soon as possible, then probably not to come to the university okay. So uh my University may not like my answer, but yeah yeah.

C

A

Really want me to be successful right. How important is.

F

It to have the free enterprise Research Center, available.

A

D

Its VR equipment I mean that's, not the block is.

C

It so the facilities of UMKC.

A

Are they like a real.

F

Original they set up. This is more like your case, the outside company, or whatever, want to do projects or come come here.

F

That's the original setup this for.

C

C

A

You're saying the limit to that is, one is the is the overhead and two? Is they don't do they actually have the people to do it right now or not not really, right or.

F

um No right, if you didn't ask other people, they may say yes, but again, as I said, I think your project is very important, and certainly you want to finish your project. The first one, lady I'm gonna passport,.

E

Yeah as soon as possible,.

F

Okay I said at my University may not like my instance.

A

F

You said when we begin to build out those kind of things, then probably we can find a way to do this under the budget limitation, yeah.

A

Okay, uh under the budget limitation, uh what do you mean by that? It.

F

Means that you will have it, you know who tell it so they can finish the work in.

D

F

Time right instead of spend a one year budget one year, then they can do the good work with the much shorter time.

A

Right but you know the the same rules, though the same overhead.

F

Rules, yeah, yeah, okay,.

C

F

Right and then you get a special beer. Normally, this is not the case. You follow the university. Do a 56.5 percent. um What you guys think about think.

E

About this more.

F

E

Yeah yeah University.

A

All right: excellent, okay, okay! Well! Thank you.

F

uh I, don't know how long it will take about RPD. My Center will have a capability to do that. Like a demo, I show you yeah yeah.

C

A

E

A

uh It will take you to develop the capacity.

D

F

I hope as soon as possible.

A

uh That's uh can be a little more specific. Is that, like six months or a year or two.

F

Years I think I hope the the video in three months I hope.

A

Within three months or so yeah yeah.

F

A

F

Mean I I I have a several project I'm going by now. Yeah I also need to have a team yeah.

A

Yeah, let's keep in touch because for.

B

Future work as soon as you're ready I mean we probably.

A

Definitely would want to try to work with you.

F

Sure are you in Missouri or yes,.

A

Yes, I'm in an hour north of Kansas, City yeah,.

E

E