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From YouTube: Agents of Innovation Pocast Preview
Description
MJ will be appearing on the Agents of Innovation Podcast - find out more at
http://agentsofinnovation.org/
----------------
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A
Okay,
I
want
to
welcome
to
the
agents
of
innovation,
podcasts,
marcin
jakubowski,
of
course,
with
that
name,
you
can
tell
that's
a
polish
name.
Martian
jakubowski
and
he
was
born
in
poland-
came
over
to
united
states
as
a
kid,
and
he
is
now
the
founder
and
executive
director
of
open
source
ecology
has
a
phd
in
fusion
energy,
marching
welcome
to
the
agents
of
innovation,
podcast.
A
Well,
marcin,
we
are
glad
to
have
you
as
well,
and
I
find
it
interesting
your
story
coming
from
poland
as
a
child.
It
was
in
the
early
1980s
right
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
what
it
was
like
to
grow
up
in
poland.
B
Yes,
so
1982
that
was
still
the
time
of
the
berlin
wall
before
the
collapse,
so
it
was
a
great
communist
country.
Yeah
I
mean
was
a
little
rough.
You'd
have
to
wait
in
line
for
food
during
that
time,
and
you
can.
When
you
live
in
poland,
you,
you
also
have
the
history
of
the
second
world
war
with
you
so
like,
for
example,
my
grandmother
was
in
a
concentration
camp.
B
My
grandfather
was
in
the
polish
underground,
derailing
german
supply
trains
and
things
like
that,
so
that
culture
of
of
deprivation-
yes,
I've
seen
some
of
that
and
that
definitely
influenced
my
outlook
on
open
source
or
open
collaborative
development.
A
Yeah,
I
mean,
because
I
mean
it's
kind
of
interesting,
very
closed
economy
there
in
poland
at
the
time
and
this
part
of
one
of
the
soviet
states
at
the
time.
Well,
it's
interesting
marching
because
you
came
now
you
all
migrated
from
poland
to
was
it
new
jersey.
B
Yeah
new
jersey,
newark
graffiti
ridden
streets
of
newark.
It
wasn't
the
streets
weren't
paved
with
gold
like
we,
we
would
think
but
yeah
I
lived
in
paterson
new
jersey.
Then
there
was
actually
a
hotel
fire
there
that
we
survived.
It
was
actually
a
bunch
of
deaths
there,
like
14
people
died
in
that.
B
Yeah
yeah
yeah.
That
was
one
of
those
things
where
at
that
time,
so
I
was,
I
guess,
11
and
really
thought:
okay,
what's
meaningful
in
life
like
as
we,
because
we
were
waiting
up
on
the
eighth
floor
of
this
building
for
like
hours
until
we
were
rescued,
and
that
was
one
of
those
near
near-death
experiences
where
you
kind
of
think
like
through
that
and
after
that,
like
wow,
what
is
really
important?
You
know.
A
So
you
came
with
your
parents:
did
you
have
any
siblings
yeah.
B
My
brother,
my
parents,
so
that
we
moved
to
kearney
new
jersey,
went
to
carnegie
high
school,
then
went
to
princeton
university
undergrad
and
then
university
wisconsin
grad
for
the
fusion
phd
yeah.
A
Wow,
so
very
interesting,
so
as
a
as
a
kid
or
when
was
your
when's
the?
What
was
the
first
job
you
ever
had
when
was
that
I.
B
Had
a
paper
route
since
sixth
grade
through
elementary
high
school
and
college
actually
kept
that
in
college,
so
it
was
more
like
ten
years
of
that.
So
that
was
a
thing
I
always
kind
of
had
money
lying
around.
So
it
wasn't
an
issue
just
because
I
was
working
myself
and
yeah,
so
that
was
first
job
but
different
than
what
I'm
pursuing
today.
A
A
I've
actually
had
quite
a
few
people
that
have
had
a
paper
route,
and
I
don't
know
what
I
don't
know
what
that's
about,
because
I
feel
like
in
the
year
2020
a
young
person
right
now
probably
won't
even
know
what
a
paper
route
is
interesting
and
it
wasn't
that
long
ago,
we're
not
that
old
so
come
on,
but
anyway
I
just
find
that
very
interesting.
What
was
one
of
some
of
the
things
you
learned
from
from
that
first
job,
that
maybe
you
took
with
you
into
the
rest
of
your
life.
B
I
think
efficiency
is
actually
one
of
them
because,
after
doing
a
paper
out
for
so
long,
it's
like
you
get
really
efficient
at
it
and
learn
how
to
cut
corners,
not
cut
corners,
but
really
do
it
efficiently
and
fast.
So
I
think
the
insights
of
efficiency
as
an
economic
principle.
I
think
that's
definitely
relevant
in
what
I
do
today
and
in
fact
like.
If
you
talk
about
you,
know
one
country
being
prosperous
and
another
not
so
what
is
it
it's
about?
The
operating
systems,
the
governance,
but
also
part
of
that
is
how
things
are
done.
A
B
Yeah,
so
right
after
that,
pretty
much
took
to
the
land,
so
the
farther
I
went
in
my
education,
the
more
useless
I
was
feeling
in
terms
of
solving
pressing
world
issues.
So
thinking
about
at
that
point
actually
started
thinking
about
ideas
of
collaboration,
open
collaboration,
because
in
my
phd
program
I
wasn't
able
to
talk
openly,
for
example,
about
my
work,
which
made
me
question
this
whole
system
of
how
we
we
operate
even
if
at
the
public
institution,
you
can't
really
talk
openly
about
what
you're
doing,
how
must
that
be
throughout
the
rest
of
society.
B
So
some
somebody
introduced
me
to
linux
back
in
my
group,
the
open
source
software
system
and
the
insight
for
me
was
it's
like
wow,
okay,
there's
different
ways
to
do
things.
There's
there's
different
options
of
how
you
can
do
different
things
and
given
that
science
wasn't
doing
it.
B
For
me
I
said:
okay,
let's
do
an
experiment
of
what
a
truly
collaborative
system
would
look
like
so
started:
open
source,
ecology
right
after
I
finished
grad
school
with
the
notion
of
how
do
you
make
the
world
better
for
everybody,
because
in
my
phd
program
I
felt
no.
I
wasn't
doing
it
and
we're
studying
such
theoretical
things
that
made
me
really
question
what
I
was
doing
and
completely
switched
and
got
onto
a
raw
piece
of
land
after
that
and
started
the
project.
A
Well,
let's
go
back
to
that
time
in
in
grad
school,
where
you
said
you
weren't
able
to
openly
talk
about
some
things
and
what
was
that?
Because
I
don't
know
the
site,
you
know
tell
us
to
people,
those
of
us
who
aren't
exactly
scientists.
What.
B
A
B
Harvest
the
create
the
energy,
the
fusion
reaction,
just
like
on
the
sun.
How
do
you
do
that
on
earth?
And
how
do
you
do
that
in
a
way
that
you
can
trap
the
energy?
Well,
we
had
some
insights
about,
oh
well.
How
that
how
the
turbulence
process
in
one
of
these
reactors
would
look
like
it's
just
getting
deep
into
the
details
of
that
turbulence
and
these
reactors,
but
because
we
had
some
cutting-edge
material.
B
You
start
talking
a
lot
about
theoretical
stuff
and
it
was
certainly
the
case
with
fusion
and
one
time
I
went
to
a
professor
asking:
what's
this
long
equation
mean-
and
he
said
well,
it
just
actually
doesn't
mean
anything.
I
just
made
it
up
so
this
crazy
stuff,
where
you're
studying
stuff
that
doesn't
even
exist
when
there
are
real
problems
on
the
planet.
That
wasn't
right
to
me
and
it's
that
influenced
my
thinking.
A
lot.
A
Yeah,
that's
you
know,
that's
interesting,
because
there
definitely
is
that
kind
of
contradiction
in
some
ways
in
education
is,
is
how
practical
is
it
right?
I
mean
to
be
used
rather
than
just
learning
for
learning
sake
or.
B
Well,
well,
yeah,
so
I
came
from
poland
and
I
I
came
to
america.
An
incredibly
prosperous
country
and
I
thought
well,
why
does
it
have
to
be
like
one
country
is
completely
deprived
and
another
is
absolutely
prosperous.
How
does
that
happen?
How
can
we
use
all
that
knowledge
that
we
have
to
make
everybody's
life
better,
and
that
was
the
contradiction
I
ran
into
seeing
that?
Well,
no,
it's
the
way,
we're
studying
things,
and
you
know
going
into
this
abstract
theoretical
studies.
It's
that's
not
where
it's
at.
A
Yeah,
so,
okay,
so
then
you
took
to
the
land
and
you
started
a
farm
right.
B
Yeah
started
a
farm
in
missouri,
so
that
was
when
I
learned
so
so
back
in
the
phd
since
I
was
somewhat
alienated
from
my
program.
I
started
to
study
all
this
alternative
stuff
and
opens
you
know
not
open
source,
but
agriculture,
permaculture,
renewable
energy
and
all
these
progressive
topics
of
how
you
could
achieve
prosperity
for
everybody,
buckminster,
fuller
and
all
this,
this
kind
of
stuff,
appropriate
technology
and
then,
when
I
got
to
the
land,
I
found
that
wow.
That
was
all
books
that
was
still
didn't
do
it.
B
A
So
why
did
you
start
the
farm
I
mean?
Is
that
something
that
a
typical
phd
in
fusion
energy
does
start
a
farm.
B
No,
that's
rather
the
exception,
but
the
idea
there
was,
if
you're
going
to
try.
So
I
was
thinking
about
the
big
picture
of
things.
What
would
society
look
like
in
a
framework
where
everybody
collaborated
openly?
There
were
no
such
things
as
pants,
like
in
academia,
you'd
be
working
on
real,
meaningful
problems
and
all
that
so
to
start
think
start
actually
beyond
thinking
doing
something
about
it.
Well,
you
gotta
start
with
okay.
How
do
we
live
and
survive
so
that
means
okay,
land,
there's
housing.
There's
agriculture!
B
Agriculture
is
like
the
first
thing
that
you
got
to
feed
yourself
and
how
do
you
then
build
up
technology
so
start
thinking
about
what
a
better
civilization
would
look
like,
so
naturally
to
for
any
civilization,
reboot
experiment,
you're
gonna
need
some
land.
So
that's
what
I
did
got
the
land
and
started
experimenting.
A
Great
and
then
I
guess
you
had,
I
know
you
had
some
issues
there.
You
talked
about
the
tractor
breaking
down
and
other
things
and
and
that
led
you
to
to
start
investigating.
B
Appropriate
technology
in
a
real,
significant
way,
so
that
problem
was
okay,
so
I
got
a
tractor.
Then
it
broke
old
tractor
broke
paid
to
get
it
repaired.
Then
it
broke
again
pretty
soon.
I
was
broke
too,
as
I
say
in
my
ted
talk
and
by
the
way,
which
is
a
good
four
minute
introduction
to
the
whole
project.
If
you
want
to
take
a
look
at
that.
B
Yeah
search
for
the
global
global
village
construction
set
open
source
blueprints
for
civilization,
so
that's
the
kind
of
work
that
this
led
into
was
okay.
If
that's
a
problem
that
I
had
I'm
sure
I
wasn't
alone
in
this,
and
it
must
be
persistent,
so
I
decided
well,
let's
see,
if
I'm
going
to
solve
this
problem
for
myself
by
actually
starting
to
build
my
own
equipment
building
in
my
own
machines,
then
I
can
solve
the
problem
for
everybody
so
now
getting
into
the
entrepreneurial
spirit.
Okay,
here's
a
problem!
B
I
didn't
really
look
at
it
as
as
the
entrepreneurial
scheme,
because
I
kind
of
came
at
it
more
from
this
is
kind
of
like
fire
in
my
pants.
I
need
some
things
like
right
now,
which
is
somewhat
entrepreneurial,
but
wasn't
driven
by
this
thinking
the
business
thinking
saying:
okay,
now
I've
got
a
problem,
we're
going
to
solve
it.
Here's
a
solution,
here's
the
value
proposition!
B
That's
that
came
later,
and
I
certainly
think
of
like
that
more
more
like
that
right
now,
but
at
that
time
was
about
solving
a
pressing
need
for
myself
and
and
others
through,
build
actually
really
building
tractors,
for
others.
B
Yes,
so
more
like
that,
that
started
me
on
the
idea
of
the
global
village
construction
set,
saying:
okay.
Well,
what
are
the
some
of
the
most
critical
infrastructure,
building
machines
and
tools
that
we
all
need
to
have
the
modern
standard
that
we
live
with
everything
from
your
tractors,
to
your
bread,
baking
oven
to
circuit,
making
to
everything
that
that
our
society
revolves
on
energy
and
everything
else.
B
So
I
said
well,
let's,
let's
take
a
stab
at
identifying
some
of
the
most
critical
critical
machines
and
open
sourcing
them,
so
that
anybody
who
wants
to
build
a
sustainable
farm,
sustainable
community
or
even
bootstrap
an
entire
economy
from
from
from
the
ground
up,
can
do
so
readily
and
that
that
is
a
powerful
idea.
It
relates
to
leapfrogging
in
a
developing
world.
It
re
revolves
around
prosperity
in
a
country
like
ours,
where
we
still
have
the
fourth
world.
We've
got
our
impoverished
areas
of
plenty
in
this
country.
B
A
Yeah,
you
know
so
right
now
I
mean
we
kind
of
live
in
a
world
where
we
buy
a
lot
of
products
that
do
things
for
us
in
some
ways
we're
even
moving
to
a
world
with
a
lot
of
ai.
That's
that's!
You
know
we
may
all
have
robots
walking
around
soon
or
taking
care
of
our
every
need,
but
how
that
seems
to
stand
in
contrast
to
what
you're
suggesting
but
tell
me
what
you
know
that
maybe
people
become
a
little
more
technically
technical.
B
Savvy,
if
you
will
no,
it's
actually
not
a
contradiction.
I
mean
robots
already
serve
us
like,
for
example,
robotic
vacuum
cleaner
in
this
house,
but
no
the
idea
is
that
part
of
the
global
village
construction
set
is
automation
and
computer
numerical
controlled
fabrication,
3d
printers
industrial
robots,
I
mean
that's
all
in
there.
It's
just
about
making
the
technology
accessible
to
everybody.
So
actually
right
now,
if
you
talk
about
artificial
intelligence
or
computer
vision,
cvai
I
mean
all
of
that
is
actually
open
source.
B
B
A
B
A
Are
saying:
hey
I'm
going
to
move
to
the
country
in
north
florida
and
I'm
going
to
start
a
farm
or
I'm
going
to
just
live
a
little
more
self-sustaining
lifestyle,
so
I
don't
have
to
be
dependent
on
other
people
or
have
to
worry
about
you
know
a
lockdown
or
this
or
that
or
a
job
corporate
office.
Whatever
people
are
making
a
lot
of
changes
right
now
and
somebody
listening
might
say:
hey
I
kind
of
like
this
idea
of
building
my
own
sustainable
home
and
community.
A
What
are
you
seeing
out
there
and
how
could
someone
go
about
doing
it?
What
would
be
their
first
steps.
B
Yeah,
so
actually
right
now,
the
question
about
supply
chains
definitely
comes
up
a
lot.
The
idea
of
what
it
takes
to
have
a
resilient
economy
like
because
we've
seen
a
lot
of
perhaps
failure
in
this
country
and
elsewhere
on
that.
So
people
are
thinking
about
this.
The
first
step
is,
I
mean,
get
involved
in
this,
so
I
mean
it's
a
mind,
shift
to
simply
say
that
you
can
actually
do
all
this
stuff
like,
for
example,
when
I
first
built
the
tractor,
it's
like
at
first
you
you,
you
look
at
it.
B
It's
like
wow,
that's
impossible,
but
then
you
start
breaking
things
down
and
you
say
well:
a
tractor
is
literally
okay.
It's
this
frame,
this
box
with
wheels,
there's
a
power
unit
and
so
forth.
So
first
you
have
to
recognize
that
this
is
within
human
capacity
and
that
a
lot
of
times
the
things
we
use
are
such
black
boxes
and
the
way
people
design
things
are
all
wrapped
up
and
you
can't
even
mess
with
it.
So
we're
indoctrinated
to
think
that,
oh,
this
is
like
some
engineer
or
crazy.
B
Scientist
did
this
and
it's
not
us,
but
I
believe
that
true
democracy
relies
on
people
being
much
more
aware
about
more
in
control
of
their
technology
base,
so
that
you
can
have
the
flexibility
and
not
the
dependence
that
you
can
so
first,
it's
a
it's
a
mind
shift,
but
then,
once
you
recognize
it,
you
can
see
that
well
definitely
people
can
build
their
own
home.
They
can
even
build
a
tractor.
B
In
one
day,
we've
shown
that
I
mean
we've
shown
how
you
can
take
12
people
and
in
one
day
you
can
build
one
of
our
tractors
so
wow.
It's
we've
seen
some
amazing
results
with
this
technology
works.
That's
that's
one
of
the
biggest
learnings
on
my
side,
and-
and
it's
really
about
my
goal-
is
to
communicate
that
to
others
to
show
that
hey,
we
can
be
building
the
things
around
us.
B
We
are
not
imprisoned
to
whatever
somebody
else
offers
us,
and
I
think
we
see
that
with
a
mass
customization
with
things
like
3d,
printing
and
and
robotics
small-scale
fabrication
being
accessible
to
more
people,
that's
definitely
the
case.
So
really
it's
it's
about.
Switching
your
mindset
to
that
of
a
from
from
a
consumer
kind
of
a
mindset
to
a
producer
to
a
creator
mindset-
that's
the
key,
but
other
than
that
you
can.
You
can
go
on
to
our
our
website
and
download
some
plans.
You
can
start
building
3d
printers.
You
can
build
the
tractor.
B
We
offer
immersion
workshops
where
we
can
teach
you
how
to
do
that
in
weekend,
workshops
or
other
immersion
training.
What
is
the
website
opensource
ecology.org?
So
you
can
take
a
look
at
that
open.
B
Yeah
exactly
so,
the
the
global
village
construction
set
is
is
exactly
the
50
machines
that
we
thought
were
the
most
important
most
inaccessible,
most
expensive,
just
for
all
the
fundamental
things
that
we
do
in
society,
and
we
did
that
as
one
is
okay,
so
you
can
wrap
your
head
around
these
50
things,
but
second,
it's
about
developing
a
methodology
where
you
can
do
collaborative
development.
So
beyond
just
the
idea
that
oh,
I
have
these
50
machines,
that's
not
enough,
because
new
technology
is
not
going
to
save
you,
it's
a
mental
shift.
B
Maybe
a
cultural
shift
will
save
you
it's
and
it's
about
one
learning
to
collaborate.
How
do
you
collaborate
effectively
on
problems
that
are
bigger
than
ourselves
like
right
now,
with
the
covet?
For
example,
we've
seen
how
okay?
How
well
do
we
know
how
to
collaborate?
That's-
and
I
asked
myself
that
question
and
I
found
for
myself
even
that.
Well,
we
better
develop
effective
ways
that
people
can
work
together,
and
that
starts
with
once
again
the
awareness
that
that's
possible,
but
we're
very
much
conditioned
to
think
that
is
not
the
case.
B
Just
look
at
patents.
The
idea
that
oh,
you
gotta
take
that
patent.
It
hide
it
don't
share
it
with
anybody,
we're
really
indoctrinated
to
a
lot
of
kind
of
individualistic
or
non-collaborative
thought
patterns.
I
think,
are
the
biggest
things.
So
while
we
develop
the
50
machines,
we
also
develop
the
mindsets
and
the
collaboration
techniques
with
which
people
can
use
to
apply
to
any
problem.
B
A
B
A
B
Open
source
refer
comes
from
the
world
of
open
source
software
and
and
we're
translating
that
same
concept
into
hardware,
but
in
open
source
software.
What
that
simply
means
is
that
the
blueprints,
the
source
code
like
if
you
have
a
program
program,
programming
whatever
like
the
web
browser
you
use.
That's.
B
Right,
if
it's
open
source,
you
can
actually
take
the
code
and
look
at
it
and
examine
what
it
does.
So.
The
four
freedoms
of
open
source
means
that
you
can
inspect
it.
You
can
use
it,
you
can
copy
it
and
you
can
sell
it
actually,
which
the
last
one
is
actually
very
important,
because
without
that
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
incentivize
people
to
collaborate
like
you
want
to
work
on
economically
significant
products.
So
for
hardware
it
means
that
the
blueprints
like,
for
example,
for
the
tractor,
we're
publishing
the
blueprints.
B
A
Yeah,
that's
great,
so
you
gave
that
ted
talk
in
2010
for
2011..
You
gave
the
ted
talk,
2011,
and
then
you
met
your
wife
in
2012
yeah.
B
Yeah,
I
met
my
wife,
so
we
actually
started
a
project
together
here
as
well,
so
she's
also
another
open
hardware.
Advoc
advocate
katarina
mota,
so
we're
working
on
the
open
building
institute.
We
did
a
kickstarter
on
that
in
2016.
Actually,
because
one
of
the
things
she
found
when
she
moved
out
here
was
that
she
needed
some
more
space
and
a
comfortable
house
to
live
in
more
than
the
male
comforts,
so
she
actually
started
a
a
program
open
building,
institute
a
project
to
make
affordable
ecological
housing
widely
accessible.
So
that's
a
collaboration.
B
A
Yeah,
so
that's
the
open
building
institute
is
that
yeah.
B
Yeah
good
website
for
the
concept
is
open:
building,
openbuildinginstitute.org,
but
basically
the
concept
of
modular
housing
that
you
can
build
like
legos
using
panel
construction
that
you
can.
You
can
build
with
a
small
small
team
of
people
and
then
assemble
it
rapidly
into
place.
It's
actually
the
house.
I
live
in
right
now
here
it's
a
1400
square
foot
house,
it's
it's
a
design
from
the
open
building
institute
and
we
built
that
with
50
people
in
five
days.
So
once
again,
the
concept
is
so
50
people,
five
days,
ideas,
50.
A
B
Like
so
it's
an
off-grid
eca
home,
so
we've
got
photovoltaics,
we're
actually
connected
to
the
grid.
We've
got
a
pellet
stove
hydronics,
I
mean
regular
kitchen
bathroom.
We
actually
have
a
bio
digester
in
here
for
processing
waste
and
it's
off-grid
capable
has
water
collection.
You
can
actually
look
at
the
full
design.
So
it's
that's
at
the.
I
can
send
you
a
link
for
the
scene.
A
B
Yeah
we've
got
an
air
conditioner,
so
we
run
that
most
of
the
time
on
the
solar
energy.
But
the
idea
being
I
mean
just
the
concept-
that's
important:
the
idea
that
in
a
modular
design,
you
can
have
a
lot
of
different
modules
that
are
that
a
large
team
can
work
together
on
each
module
and
then
assemble
it
rapidly
into
place.
That's
the
kind
of
concept
where
we're
developing.
B
We
call
that
extreme
manufacturing,
where
you
can
have
these
rapid
builds
that
are
not
only
productive
but
also
social,
so
you
can
get
get
together
with
a
bunch
of
people.
We
offer
these
kinds
of
events
as
workshops,
and
actually
I
want
to
say
that
right
now
this
is
pretty
exciting,
but
we're
going
to
look
at
taking
this
kind
of
a
house
model
create
a
package
where
you
can
have
a
thousand
square
foot
house
that
you
can
build
by
yourself
with
a
friend
in
one
week
for
fifty
thousand
dollars.
B
That's
our
next
goal
and
we're
doing
that
in
order
to
do
that,
we're
going
to
create
this
very
big
collaborative
design
event,
which
we
are
calling
extreme
enterprise
to
pull
that
off.
So
actually
gathering
000
people
in
a
in
a
remote
collaborative
event,
very
well
scripted
out
for
as
far
as
what
all
the
development
points
are
modular
breakdown.
So
this
is
our
next
experiment.
It's
going
to
actually
happen
in
about
next
summer.
B
We're
planning
this
for,
but
basically
to
take
all
the
stuff,
all
the
prototypes
we've
done
and
all
the
documentation
to
refine
it
and
turn
that
into
a
viable
business
model.
So
this
really
gets
into
this
enterprise
aspect,
because
one
of
the
things
we
found
is
one
of
the
challenges
of
open
source
hardware
is
where's
the
product.
It
takes
a
lot
a
lot
of
effort.
It's
like
a
thousand
times
harder
than
software.
You've
got
real
infrastructures
and
real
materials
you're
working
with,
and
people
and
budgets
and
materials.
But
that's
the
next
goal.
A
Yeah
so
tell
me
you're
in
missouri.
How
far
are
you
from
what's
like
the
closest
major
city,
kansas.
A
Just
an
hour
away
so
you're
there
and
in
the
sort
of
lifestyle
you
live
there
with
this
home
that
you
built
is
this:
are
you
totally
self-sustaining?
I
mean
we
talked
about
supply
chains.
Do
you
go?
I
mean
what
do
you?
What
do
you
sort
of
consume
and
yeah?
I
mean.
B
Right
now,
until
we
build
all
the
machines,
no
I
mean
we
buy
our
stuff
at
the
big
box
store.
Still,
I
mean
all
the
materials
like
safe
with
the
tractor.
You
go
to
the
steel
supply
and
hydraulics
supplies
and
all
that,
but
once
you
get
deeper
into
the
system,
once
you
have
the
precision
machining
to
machine
metal,
you
could
be
making
your
own
engines
and
then
it
could
be
making
your
own
biofuels
or
hydrogen
or
whatever.
B
So
the
idea
of
the
global
village
construction
set
is
there's
also
machines
to
turn
literally
like
the
dirt
and
twigs
under
your
feet
into
modern
materials.
B
So
things
like
taking
scrap
steel
and
melting
it
down
and
rolling
it
into
virgin
steel
or
even
the
last
last
last
machine
in
the
set
actually
for
for
your
information
is
the
aluminum
extraction
from
clay,
so
you've
taken
clay,
which
is
a
luminosilicate
and
you're
actually
extracting
aluminum
from
that?
Can
that
be
done?
B
A
A
So,
martin,
if
someone
wants
to
learn
a
little
bit
more,
you
said
you
have
some
sort
of
seminars
online
or
what
is
it
some
workshops.
B
I'd
say
so
first
thing
take
a
look
at
the
the
ted
talk
and
then
take
a
look
at
the
workshops
that
we
offer.
So
we've
got
immersion
training.
You
can
definitely
surf
our
wiki
there's
a
bunch
of
materials
there,
a
good
page
to
look
at
is
getting
involved,
how
you
can
get
involved.
So
we
list
all
the
workshops
and
immersion
training
so
right
now
we're
actually
starting
an
immersion
training
program
for
people
to
start
chapters
of
open
source
ecology
in
different
locations.
B
B
That's
that's
all
we
pretty
much
have
right
now,
but
then
moving
on
to
other
machines
and
then
further
on
selling
the
tractors
and
other
things,
but
we're
starting
to
sell
products
and
do
the
workshops
and
that's
a
viable
revenue
model
that
we've
documented
that
we
can
now
spin
off
other
branches
in
different
locations.
So
if
you
want
to
get
super
ambitious
about
getting
involved,
take
a
look
at
that
program.
B
Yeah
we're
gonna
hook
up
with
the
habitat
for
humanity
for
the
housing
project
right
now,
but
no
we
haven't
had
too
much.
I
guess
we
were
we're
doing
just
a
lot
of
prototyping
and
a
lot
of
proof
of
concept.
I
think,
as
we
go
forward,
we're
going
to
do
more
of
that,
there's
also,
for
example,
osc
germany
that
started
and
they're
doing
some
of
their
projects
there.
So
that's
actually
a
good
good
step
forward,
but
yeah.
B
Definitely
we
can
definitely
walk
the
walk
by
collaborating
more
with
others,
but
it's
very
interesting
that
it's
it's
hard
to
find
people
that
do
want
to
collaborate
openly.
I
mean
a
lot
of
times
we
go
about
like
someone
asks
us.
Okay,
I
want
to
collaborate
on
your
tractor,
oh
yeah,
except
I'm
completely
proprietary
and
I'm
going
to
suck
this
all
up
once
you
once
we
develop
it.
B
B
Well,
I
would
actually
identify
that
as
collaborative
literacy
idea
of
how
people
work
together
or
not
know
how
to
work
together.
First,
the
idea
that
I
mean,
if
you
think
about
it,
you
know
take
take
tractors,
is
a
good
example.
Wouldn't
it
be
better
if
all
the
companies,
like
hundreds
or
thousands
of
them
or
cordless
drills,
hundreds
or
thousands
of
companies
that
make
them
would
collaborate
together
come
up
with
the
best
product
that
just
kills
it
that's
the
best
in
the
marketplace.
B
Well,
instead,
you've
got
a
whole
bunch
of
them,
a
bunch
of
different
ones.
Most
of
them
are
in
fear,
there's
one
like
really
good,
one
like
say,
apple
or
whatever,
but
think
about
this.
It
doesn't
take
much
to
think
that
if
we
all
collaborated,
we
would
just
knock
out
the
problems
to
get
the
best
products
and
then
move
on
to
solving
bigger
issues
like
bigger
societal
issues
like
poverty
and
crime
or
whatever.
So.
B
A
Yeah,
so
what
have
you
kind
of
learned
the
most
through
all
of
this.
B
Oh
yeah,
I
would
say
that
the
first
thing
is:
there's
a
big
difference
between
vision
and
execution.
It
gets
back
down
to
good
old
enterprise.
You
know
starting
the
project
idealistically.
I
thought
that
oh
yeah,
once
we
publish
the
first
thing,
this
is
going
to
go
crazy
and
sprout
all
over
the
world
like
2008,
when
we
did
the
first
brick
press
thought
that
would
just
go
wild
across
the
globe,
but
no,
how
many
people
are
actually
building
it
for
a
business.
B
Nobody,
it's
it's,
there's
a
huge
difference
between
a
working
prototype
or
something
that's
near
product
and
actual
execution
to
the
kind
of
scale
that
we
talk
about,
because
we
still
talk
about
changing
the
world.
The
next
trillion
dollar
economy
is
the
open
source
economy,
the
paradigm
shift
towards
collaborative
development.
That's
our
big
game.
B
Now
that
takes
millions
and
billions
and
trillions
of
effort
down
the
road
to
make
it
happen,
and
that
is
enterprise.
It's
marketing,
it's
execution
and
it's
building
up
the
skill
set
to
do
that.
So
personally,
I
have
my
biggest
learning
is
that
I
need
to
build
up
a
skill
set
for
the
enterprise
side
and
that's
what
I'm
doing.
A
That's
great
well,
this
has
been
really
great
to
learn
about.
I
mean
almost
mind-blowing
in
some
ways
I
think
there's
probably
a
lot
of
people.
Listening
like
myself
to
you,
as
I
was
studying
a
little
bit
about
what
you
were
up
to
like
wow.
This
is
like
just
something:
I've
never
really
considered
yeah.
To
this
degree
I
mean
that
you're
you're
doing,
and
what
would
you
also
say
in
this?
You
know
what
can
you
say
to
other
entrepreneurs
out
there?
B
I'll
say
this:
the
sun
shines
at
the
earth
ten
thousand
times
more
power
than
we
currently
use
from
first
principles,
there's
an
absolute
case
for
abundance,
and
now
we
have
big
problems
facing
the
world
so
to
solve
them
collaborate.
I
mean
work
with
others
to
not
just
your
project
but
open
that
up
to
say
to
pick
a
bigger
problem
and
work
with
others
to
solve
it.
B
B
I'm
talking
about
paradigm
shift
so
so
think,
stop
and
think
deeply
about
what
it
really
means
to
collaborate
and
solve
and
then
choose
to
solve,
bigger
problems
that
people
don't
even
want
to
talk
about,
let's
be
very
deliberate
about
tackling
them,
but
for
that
you
have
to
collaborate
and
really
open
up
yourself
to
that.
A
Well,
we're
all
about
that
here
at
the
agents
of
innovation
podcast.
In
fact,
the
main
reason
I
started
this
podcast
about
five
years
ago
was
because,
through
a
lot
of
the
different
things
I
was
doing
in
my
work
and
people,
I
was
meeting,
I
just
kept
hearing
these
really
incredible
entrepreneurial
stories
and
wanted
to
share
them
with
more
people
and,
at
the
same
time
I
was
just.
I
was
also
becoming
a
podcast
listener
and
thought
hey.
A
Why
not
start
a
podcast
where
I
can
bring
stories
like
like
yourself
to
more
people,
so
they
can
get
to
know
you
and
learn
about
what
you're
doing
learn
about
your
stories
and
then
connect
with
you.
So
they
can
do
that
again
at
what
opensourceecology.org
yep.
A
And
also
in
the
show
notes
here,
you
know
we'll
put
some
of
that
information
and
also
there's
a
blog
post
that
we'll
put
up
at
agentsofinnovation.org
so
we'll
have
all
of
the
links
to
your
ted
talks
and
everything
and
people
can
get
to
know
you
and
hopefully
connect
with
you
but
a
march,
and
we're
really
just
happy
to
have
you
on
and
I'll.
Just
let
you
let
you
leave
us
with
any
last
closing
thoughts.
B
Yeah
collaborate
open
up
and
collaborate
like
and
selfishly
speaking
here,
it's
like
look
at
some
of
our
stuff.
B
I
guess
one
idea
I
didn't
really
touch
on
is
the
idea
of
distributive
enterprise,
the
idea
that,
like,
for
example
with
the
3d
printers,
that
we're
selling
right
now
we're
actively
teaching
others
how
to
build
them
and
produce
them
as
an
enterprise.
So
think
about
that
when
you,
when
you
go
forth
on
your
business
ventures,
think
about
the
business
models
around
setting
up
other
people
to
be
the
entrepreneurs
and
that
that's
one.