►
From YouTube: Rolling Forward on GI Bill Apprenticeships
Description
Meeting with Jon Miller of Outlaws Inc. https://www.vetsmakeit.com/
Setting up GI Bill apprenticeships to change the world, certified by the Department of Labor.
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A
B
A
B
All
right
question:
one
program
address.
A
A
B
B
Got
it
how
many
total
instructors
do
you
have.
A
I
have
myself:
I've
got
katarina,
who
I
mean
she's
she's
kind
of
typing,
in
whenever
she
she
can
and
as
far
as
instructor
for
workshop
stuff,
there's
jeff
higdon
who's
our
facility
manager.
He
can
teach
things
like
welding
and
and
shop.
B
Yep,
okay,
what
this
means
is
that
the
max
number
you
can
bring
on
at
any
given
time
is
has
to
be
equal
to
the
number
of
journey
workers
that
you
have
so
so
missouri
wants
the
starting
ratio
to
be
one
to
one.
B
B
Now
there
may
be
a
way
around
this,
because
you're
teaching
such
diverse
skill
sets
that
maybe
we
can
count
guest
instructors
or
something
like
that.
But
I
think
this
is
just
a
starting
point
and
it's
a
living
document
and
if
you
get
a
big
influx
of
applicants,
we
can
go
back
to
the
department
of
labor
and
see
what
they
think.
A
Mm-Hmm:
okay,
okay,
okay,.
B
So
I'm
going
to
skip
over
a
wage
schedule
for
now
because
we're,
I
think,
we'll
save
that
for
the
for
later,
the
probationary
period,
so
so
typical
apprenticeships
include
some
probationary
period
of
employment,
which
gives
you
the
flexibility
to
end
the
apprenticeship
agreement.
B
A
But
what
really
matters
is
first
day
they
start
working
like
do
they
man,
we
had
some
people
who
who
on
paper,
looked
like
really
good
and
actually
they
were
actual
doing
physical
work
before,
but
when
they
came
in,
they
were
like
so
clueless
that
it
was
really
hard
to
work
with
them
and
motivate
me.
I
want
to
see
how
a
person
works
so
either
like
th,
this
probationary
period
or
a
requirement
of
for
the
application.
B
I'm
going
to
leave
it
at
30
days,
just
because
it
gives
you
more
flexibility.
A
B
Okay-
and
there
were
it,
you
know
that's
not
going
to
deter
anybody
from
applying
okay.
So
now,
you're
gonna
see
the
current
work
process,
which
is
what
the
department
of
labor
calls
our
curriculum.
B
I
can
I'll
send
this
document
to
you,
so
you
can
like
see
how
I
did
this,
but
in
essence
everything
that's
in
red
is
from
the
existing
production,
technologist
apprenticeship
and
I
just
sort
of
pulled
out
the
pieces
and
put
them
into
what
you're
already
doing.
If
that
makes
sense,.
A
B
And
all
of
the
things
that
I
could
find
hyperlinks
to
on
the
wiki
as
existing
topics,
I
linked
them
directly
so
that
the
department
of
labor,
if
they
need
to
know
precisely
what
you're
doing
they
can
see
that
and
so
far
they're
happy
with
that.
A
B
So
I
think
the
key,
the
key
is
the
way
I
broke
it
down
is
first
broad
topic.
Leadership
and
management.
B
Second
is
collaborative,
third
is
knowledge.
Foundation.
B
Fourth,
is
trade
skills
and
fifth
is
design,
and
then
six
is
production.
Now
we
can
reorganize.
However,
you
want,
but
this
this
is
essentially
me
taking
what
yeah
we
talked
about
with
previous
curriculum
development
conversations
and
turned
it
in
and
just
had
built
categories
for
the
part
of
labor.
This
isn't
chronological
it's
it's
mix
and
match,
as
as
you
see
it
and
be
and
keep
in
mind
because
it's
a
competency-based
program,
I
I'm
going
to
remove
all
of
these
columns
for
hours,
trainer,
certification
and
employees.
A
B
Okay,
so
here's
the
meat
and
potatoes
related
technical
instruction,
so
this
is,
you
know,
forget
osc
for
a
second,
if
you're
an
electrician,
what
this
means
is
you've
got
your
nine-to-five
on-the-job.
Learning
that
you
have
related
training
instruction
is
work
outside
of
your
on-the-job,
so
you're
not
getting
paid
for
this,
but
it's
supporting
your
skill
and
knowledge
base.
B
It
could
be
extra
instruction
that
you
provide,
so
I
understand
that's
kind
of
open-ended,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
we
need
to
do
is
come
up
with
at
least
144
hours
worth
of
some
curriculum
additionally
to
support
everything
we
just
went
through
in
the
work
process.
B
A
Okay,
okay,
so
let
me
get
this
so
so
related.
Do
you
have
this
document
that
you
can
share?
That's
not
online,
yet.
B
Yeah
I
can
share
it,
I'm
keeping
it
in
word,
though
so
yeah
because
of
the
formatting.
So
I
can
send
this
to
you
after
this.
I
can
send
to
you
now.
If
you
want
we're,
just
gonna,
be
working
on
different
versions.
A
Okay,
so
so
you've
got
this
on
the
job
training
which,
which
is
like
all
over
the
place
right.
We
got
at
all
these
things.
So
what
what
do
we
pump
into
this
rti
like
just
come
up
with
more
other
topics
that
are
primarily
what
like
book
or
like?
Is
that
class
or
yeah.
B
A
B
A
B
A
So
go
to
learn
this
and
then
we
meet
about
it
and
then
like
how
much
time
on
my
side
so
say
we
do
the
30
hours
for
apprenticeship
time.
That's
paid.
Would
this
be
the
remaining
100
like
144
hours
per
year,
a
year
144
hours?
So
that's
like
a
couple
of
hours,
50
weeks
like
two
couple
hours
per
week,
two
or
three
hours
per
week,
so
we're
spending.
A
Are
we
adding
this?
So
if
it's
30,
are
you
making
an
assumption
that
the
the
paid
time
is
30
as
well.
A
B
A
A
Okay
or
it
could
be
like
a
class
assignment,
they
do
an
assignment.
We
discuss
the
assignment
like
three
three
hours
a
week,
yeah
exactly
that'll
be
cool
yep,
okay,.
B
Just
did
the
topics
put
them
down
as
rti
make
you
like
open
source
ecology,
the
sponsor
for
that,
because,
like
most
employers
will
send
their
stu
their
apprentices
out
to
like
a
trade
school
to
take
a
class.
So
that's
how
it's
usually
structured,
so,
instead
of
doing
that,
you're
keep
you're,
keeping
them
in-house
and
you're.
Saying
like
some
of
this
you're
gonna
learn
in
on
the
job
and
some
of
it
you're
gonna
have
to
study
on
your
own.
B
So
I
can
keep
the
topics
the
same
and
it's
kind
of
up
to
you
on
what
is
covered
in
each
topic.
A
Yeah,
I
would,
from
the
purposes
of
a
two-year
apprenticeship.
Let's
see,
do
you
in
the
knowledge
base.
Do
you
have
anything
regarding
collaboration
or
maybe
maybe
not?
Maybe
that's
something
that
comes
out
through
culture.
It's
not
a
thing
explicitly
called,
but
it's
like
how
we
behave
and
then
maybe
focus
on
the
hardcore.
Like
numeracy,
here's
I
don't
know:
enterprise
training
or
just
technical
skills,
math
physics,
this
just
foundational
knowledge
which
I
think
would
be
important
because,
like
I'm
finding
out
people
can't
count
or
or
like
right,
yeah,
because
people
don't
can't
count.
A
B
And
then
something
like
you
know,
knowledge
foundation.
This.
A
A
Yeah
yeah,
no,
it's
what's!
There
is
broad
like,
for
example,
if
you
want
to
focus
aquaponic
greenhouse,
well,
there's
food
food,
and
what
do
you
got
there?
Food
and
food
and
agriculture
yep
yeah?
That's
that's
aquaponics!
I
can
come
up
with
that.
We're
doing
that
right
now
and
it's
kind
of
cool,
because
we're
re
reiterating
the
productivity
and
yeah.
Once
again,
like
I
remind
myself
of
the
productivity
of
such
a
greenhouse,
is
so
intense
that
it
does
lend
itself
to
a
business
model
and
yeah
anyway.
That's
exciting,
exciting,
okay,
perfect.
B
B
Okay,
cool
good,
all
right
so
before
we
go
into
wages,
I'm
just
going
to
cover
one
more
thing,
which
is
okay
term
of
the
apprenticeship.
Okay,
the
minimum
term
is
2000
hours
which
equals
one
year.
That's
that's
the
minimum
requirement
to
be
a
registered
apprenticeship
from
day.
B
Oh,
that's
what
you're
saying
okay!
So
so
so
that's
the
minimum!
We
have
been
talking
about
this
as
a
two-year
program.
B
B
I
don't
think
it's
going
to
have
any
impact
on
on
the
candidates
you
get
because
in
this
in
the
hiring
process,
you're
going
to
explain
to
them.
This
on
paper
is
a
one
or
two
year
program.
Here's!
What
we
here
are
the
competencies
you
need
to
meet
the
earliest
you
can
disenroll
with
the
credential
is
whatever
the
minimum
is
that
I
put
on
paper.
B
So
if
you
select
this
as
a
2000
program
that-
and
they
are
competent
in
your
eyes
after
2000
hours,
then
congrats
you're
a
registered
apprentice
or,
like
you,
have
this
credential
if
they're
caught.
If
you
put
down
four
thousand
hours
and
you
think
they're
competent
before
then
they
can't
just
get
the
credential
just
because
you
say
you're
competent
because
they
haven't
completed
what
you
said
requires
confidence.
B
Well,
if
it's
2
000,
then
you
have
more
flexibility
to
rate
competence
and
get
people
out
of
there
early.
If
you
say
4
000
they
they
could
achieve
in
theory,
competence
before
that
4
000
hour
mark
and
they
could
still
leave.
They
just
won't,
have
the
stamp
that
that
certificate.
That
says
they
completed
an
apprenticeship.
A
B
Well,
I
met
like
imagine:
I've
never
heard
of
osc.
I
just
think
it's
a
really
cool
opportunity
and
I'm
let's
say
I'm
average
competence,
I'm
not
a
genius,
but
I'm
definitely
capable
of
completing
the
program.
When
I
go
through
this
application
process,
I'm
going
to
want
to
know
how
long
you
expect
me
to
be
there
and.
A
B
B
However,
if
you're
competent
before
the
two-year
mark,
you
can
still
complete
this
based
on
your
competency
and
get
the
stamp
of
I
completed
a
registered
apprenticeship
or
you
can
say
this
is
a
really
ambitious
program.
It
is
for
sure
going
to
be
two
years
long
and
if
you
leave
beforehand,
then
you
give
up
the
certificate
of
having
completed
an
approach.
A
A
It's
gonna
be
like
two
years,
because
I
mean
the
breadth
of
what
we
teach
and
the
kind
of
skill
set
that
I
would
like,
and
I
would
like
to
pay
for
it's
more
than
one
year,
so
I'm
leaning
towards
the
the
4
000,
but
we
can
still
achieve
that
if
our
competency
is
defined
to
meet
that
four
thousand.
What
we
think
is
that
four
thousand
goal
right.
B
B
You're
gonna
be
here
for
two
years
and
I'm
committed
to
paying
you
for
two
years,
provided
you
meet
our
internal
standards
and
that's
our
deal
right
and
then,
if
you
think
that
they're
competent
before
that
two
year
mark,
you
always
leave
the
door
open
to
graduate
them
early.
So
maximum
flexibility
occurs
when
you
advertise
this
as
or
excuse
me,
maximum
flexibility,
for
you
occurs
when
you
apply
under
the
bare
minimum.
B
Cool,
okay
and
the
reason
that's
important
is
because
one
of,
like
my
recommendation
to
you,
is
going
to
be
whatever
we
set
the
wage
schedule
at
you
want
to
predict
as
though
it's
going
to
apply
to
somewhere
what
slightly
above
the
lowest
common
denominator.
B
So
the
the
bare
minimum
competency
of
an
apprentice
that
you
would
be
willing
to
bring
on
that
should
set
that
should,
in
your
eyes,
be
the
benchmark
for
the
wages,
because
you
can
always
go
above
that,
but
you
can't
go
below
and
I
think
financially,
it
makes
more
sense
for
you
to
say.
Okay,
this
is
really
a
two-year
program
for
most
people.
So
I'm
going
to
we're
going
to
do
our
revenue
calculations
based
on
having
to
pay
an
apprentice,
a
two-year
wage
schedule.
B
A
So
we
can
say
that
on
on
paper,
but
we
have
the
option
like
if
that
happens
before
that
we
can
accelerate
it.
Yes,
well
that
sound.
That
sounds.
That
sounds
good.
That
sounds
like
flexible,
because
if
we
put
4
000,
then
if
a
person,
what
would
be
the
ramifications
of
4
000
if
a
person
actually
gets
the
competency
after
one
year,
then
what.
B
A
A
Okay,
okay,
so
in
practice
it's
like
in
practice,
we
say
to
the
candidate:
this
is
a
it's
a
two-year
program,
but
the
only
case
where
the
2000
would
apply
like
if
we
put
well
the
only
case,
the
4
000
would
be
advantage.
Advantages
advantageous
is
where
somebody
wants
to
leave
and
we
want
to
keep
them
around
because
of
the
incentive
that
they
won't
get
the
certificate.
Is
that
kind
of
the
logic
or.
B
B
A
I
agree:
I
agree
yeah
okay,
that
feels
better.
We
need
to
plan
on
a
two-year
schedule
right
with
the
assumption
that
we're
not
going
to
assume
genius
or
or
except
super
exceptional
performance.
We
want
to
work
with
a
lot
of
people.
We
just
know
that
it's
going
to
take
some
more
time
and
we're
willing
to
do
that,
because
we
want
to
change
the
world,
and
that
means
we
need
to
involve
more
people,
and
most
people
are
going
to
take
longer.
A
That's
actually
better,
so
we
get
rid
of
any
notion
of
somebody.
Oh,
I
can
get
in
because
I
feel
like
right
now.
Some
people
in
apprenticeship
are
like
oh
yeah.
This
is
an
exciting
thing,
but
I'm
not
really
committing
to
the
results
that
come
out
of
it
they're
just
going
back
to
their
own
lives,
so
that
would
minimize
that
kind
of
a
dynamic
too
right
right
right.
Okay,
let's
do
the
four
thousand
okay.
B
B
Right
now,
with
that
decided,
the
big
question
remaining
question
we
have
to
answer
before
we
submit
is
wage
schedule
all
right.
So
let
me
break
down
my
thoughts
on
this
set,
though
I
would
set
the
weight
schedule
at
what
you
think
is
fair
without
considering
your
financial,
current
financial
invitation
and
the
reason
I
would
do.
B
That
is
because
what
we
need
is
this
to
be
a
legit
program
to
be
able
to
raise
money
to
to
finance
the
first
class,
because
you
don't
have
a
revenue
stream
to
support
this
yet
and
once
we
can,
once
we
raise
money,
we
say
we
have.
We've
got
qualified
candidates
or
applicants
that
we
want
to
work
with.
We
have
a
registered
apprenticeship
program
and
we
have
the
gi
bill
in
play
now
who
wants
to
sponsor
a
scholarship
to
fund
the
payroll
for
these
guys,
you
know.
B
Employ
apprentices
going
through
that
to
me
is
a
different
argument.
Then
we're
gonna
pay
them
what
we
can
afford
today
and
because
that
that
right
off,
the
bat
is
going
to
limit.
A
B
I
I
would,
I
would
probably
take
at
least
two
routes.
The
first
is
kiva.org,
so
they
it's
just
an
platform.
It's
like
gofundme,
but
instead
of
donate
money,
it's
a
zero
interest
loan
that
if
you
don't
pay
back,
you
know,
there's
no
fine.
You
know
there's
no
legal
repercussion
and
it's
like
it's
designed
for
moonshot
ideas
for
getting
people
like
you
and
me
the
money
that
they
need
to
fund
crazy.
A
A
B
B
Yeah,
so
so
there
there
is
some,
I
think,
there's
some
financial
analysis
that
needs
to
take
place
in
which
you
say
how
many
apprentices
can
we
afford
at
what
wages,
given
we're
going
to
sell
a
cd
go
home?
For
you
know,
it's
just
a
multi-variable
linear
equation
that
we
we
have
to
work
out
somehow.
A
But
then
how
many
can
we
afford
it
yeah?
But
that
number
is
one
two
or
three
right.
Now,
though,
so
I
mean,
I
think
I
don't
know
that.
Question
keeps
coming
back
up
then,
because
with
three
people
we
can
make
all
the
projections
on
on
that,
but
I
would
hope
that
I
mean
for
for
the
value
of
the
apprenticeship.
Like
three
is
I
don't
know
I.
A
It's
there's
enough
synergy
that
man,
it's
just
experience,
is
different
like
right
now
we're
fluctuating
between
like
six
12
and
18
people,
and
you
can
see
like
when,
when
all
with
all
hands
on
back
like
with
six
people,
it's
like
you
start
to
slow
down
with
12
people
like
you
can't
you
can't
not
not
not
because
you're
forced
to,
but
just
because
of
the
synergy,
it's
actually
there's
a
special
effect
that
happens.
A
B
A
We
can
I
mean
we
can
hell
yeah
I
mean
we
can
we.
I
think
we
can.
Actually,
I
mean,
there's
one
guy
who's
doing
the
3d
printing
was
getting
into
instructor
level
quality,
so
there's
we
can
definitely
get
more
people,
but
the
idea,
the
the
thing
is,
it's
like
it's.
A
The
thing
we're
struggling
is
the
skill
set
like
nobody
like
for
me
and
katrina,
how
we
design
and
build
and
have
that
accountability
for
materials
and
workflows,
and
all
that
and
the
integration
of
design
to
to
engineering
to
build
to
work
for
it's
like
nobody
in
the
world.
Does
it
yeah?
It's
like
it's
crazy.
I
can't
believe
nobody
is
doing
this,
so
we
can
get
people
like
the
the
power
instructors.
A
That's
like
me
and
katarina
you
can
say
we
can
definitely
get
a
bun
like
you
know,
to
get
your
average
instructor
to
teach
this
topic
yeah.
We
can
expand
that
we,
I
guess
the
immediate
option
is
okay,
so
we
enroll
some
other
people
who
I
mean.
Would
they
have
to
be
on
site
or.
B
That
to
me
is
kind
of
fuzzy,
like
my
instinct
here
is
just
is:
is
figure
out
a
way
to
get
12
people
that
you
would
be
willing
to
serve
as
instructors
it?
Could
they
don't
have
to
be
permanent,
it
could
be,
they
could
come
in
and
teach
a
class
on
3d,
printing
and
then
leave
or
whatever
the
case
is
over
that
two-year
period.
B
A
B
Right
and
so
so,
you're
going
to
design
you're
going
to
design
the
program
around
the
first
class
of
12
people,
you're
going
to
select
based
on
that
need
and
you'll
figure
out
how
to
get
12
instructors
to
satisfy
the
department
of
labor
requirement
for
a
one-to-one
ratio
like
to
me.
That's
a
problem
for
later.
Okay
and.
A
A
B
B
A
B
All
right
so
going
on
yeah,
so
going
going
on
to
the
wage
schedule.
Okay,
all
right!
So
the
way
the
way
I
think
about
this
is
like
you
know.
If
you
start
at,
I
don't
know
10
or
sorry.
Let's
start
at
15
end
of
30
an
hour
right.
You
can't
afford
that
right.
Now,
that's
fine
but
like
let's
start
at
15
and
at
30
play
around
with
raises,
let's
say
every
six
months
or
something
like
that
to
get
from
15
to
30
and
then
figure
out
over
the
two-year
lifespan.
B
A
Oh,
I
mean
that
well,
we
said
we're
gonna
do
15.
well.
At
that
point
we
have
the
program
on
paper,
but
when
it
comes
down
to
negotiating
the
class-
and
we
find
that
oh,
we
can't
pay
him,
we
can't
we
can't
go
forward
with
enrollment.
That's
all
exactly
right
right
exactly
so.
It's
a
self-solving
question,
yeah
right.
B
B
What
am
I
going
to
be
doing
and
how
much
am
I
going
to
get
paid
and
15
to
30
is
more
than
competitive,
considering
the
veteran's
side
is
going
to
get
giggle
on
top
of
that
and
there's
a
high
probability
in
my
opinion
that
you're
actually
gonna
be
able
to
raise
money
for
this
once
it
has
stamps
of
credibility
from
the
va
and
dol.
B
B
Okay,
so
so
that
may
be,
I
mean,
if
that,
if
that's
a
source
of,
if
that
gives
you
pause
or
hesitation
like,
I
don't
know
that
that
changes
the
application,
like
the
steps
that
we're
taking
now,
but
it
is
a
problem
that
needs
to
be
solved
like
it's
more
question,
are
you
comfortable
with
the
strategy
of
having
external
people
fund
this
first
class.
A
Yeah,
of
course
we
can
oh
yeah.
Actually,
oh,
no!
No!
Well!
I
do
it
very
so
I
I
don't
go
like
mass
campaign
right
class
campaign
to
do
this
or
that
I
have
conversations
that's
all
here
and
there
yeah,
but
in
fact
just
one
guy,
just
just
now
they
remind
myself
one
guy
said:
oh
yeah,
I'm
looking
considering
seriously
funding
two
apprentices
next
year,
so
yeah
stuff,
like
that,
will
happen,
yeah
sure.
B
Yes,
so
this
is
not
my
wheelhouse,
but
you
know
you
can
do
kickstarter
you
can
do
kiva.
You
can
do
a
lot
of
other
things
like
the
the
the
work
that
has
to
be
done
between
certified
application
and
cash
in
the
bank
is
a
lot
of
marketing.
Essentially
it's
like
telling
the
story
of
what
this
program
is
and
what
we,
what
the
ask
is
in
a
way
that's
going
to
potentially
reach
the
people
who
could
make
a
difference
financially
because,
like
I
think,
I
think
part
of
that
story
has
to
be.
B
A
B
So
if
that's
the
case,
then
I
can,
I
can
come
up
with
a
wage
schedule
for
you
using
that
calculator.
Now
we
know
the
starting
point.
We
know
the
ending
point
and
get
the
first
draft
over
the
department
of
labor
and
then
they're
going
to
have
a
bunch
of
comments
and
stuff
that
they
are
going
to
send
back
and
we
at
least
we
start
that
process.
And
then,
if
we
have
changes
between
now,
then
we
can
always
adjust.
A
And
yeah
look
at
those
numbers,
and
what
do
you
think
is
the
difference
between
saying
starting
with,
because
the
only
other
option
is
15
and
30
sounds
sounds
good,
no
problem?
What's
the
difference
between
that
and
minimum
wage,
which
is
like
say,
10
30.
like?
Are
we
gonna
actually
get
less
less
candidate
interest?
I
mean
naturally
so
right.
B
I
think
you're
gonna
get
less
candidate
interest.
I
think
that,
in
addition
to
the
fact
that
the
starting
wage
has
to
be
at
least
50
of
what
they
end
at.
A
A
It's
it's
really
like
the
the
outstanding
candidate
who
also
becomes
a
manager
like
but
management.
I
mean
that's,
that's
another
two-year
program
or
you
know
business
school,
but
a
manager
would
be
much
more
valuable
than
30
an
hour.
B
B
So
so
that's
that's
that's
my
recommendation.
I
think
you
know
funding
is
going
to
be
a
huge
issue,
but
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
work
that
has
to
go
into
coming
up
with
that
plan.
But
this
is
the
like
right.
Here
is
the
keystone
like
the
this
is.
This
is
where
it
all
starts
is
like
you,
planting
a
flag
on
the
ground
and
saying
like
this
is
who
we
are.
This
is
what
we're
going
to
do
who's
with
us
right.
B
It's
completely
up
to
you,
it's
completely
up
to
you,
so
the
the
five
areas
are
based
on
the
brainstorm
of
everything
that
you
guys
already
talked
about
and
covered,
as
as
like
the
attendees
of
the
existing
apprenticeship
right.
That
was
that
that
big
mapping
exercise
you
and
all
of
the
details
of
the
curriculum
are
tied
back
to
the
wiki.
So
you
can
say
that
you
know
open
source
software
isn't
nearly
as
important
to
me
as
carpentry
plumbing
and
electrical
work,
but
it
doesn't.
B
B
A
B
Yeah
absolutely
like,
let's
imagine
for
a
second,
that
everyone
shows
up.
They
get
the
minimum
safety
stuff
they
need,
and
you
literally
send
them
straight
to
putting
together
the
wall,
assemblies
right,
practical,
hands-on,
stuff
right
up
front
and
then
later
you
go
back
and
you
know
iterate
through
design,
collab
all
that
stuff
and
it's
piecemeal
right,
because
in
a
given
day
they
made
bounce
between
all
these
different
topics.
B
Is
that
when,
after
the
two-year
mark,
they
should
be
competent
according
to
what
you're?
Describing
these
you
know,
topics
in
the
work
process,
which
I
think
is
the
easy
part
for
you,
like
most
employers,
can't
guarantee
that
their
apprentices
are
actually
going
to
be
able
to
put
up
a
properly
framed
wall.
B
A
What
about,
for
example,
like
go
down
scroll
down,
hydraulics
pneumatics
like
okay,
so
that's
tractor,
let's
say
we're:
building
the
tractors,
but
one
person's
got
like
no
interest
in
the
tractors
or
the
equipment
part
they
just
really
like
the
carpentry
part
and
they
they're
like
nah.
Forget
everything
else
like
how
does
that
work?
B
Yeah
I
mean
I'd
say
that
it
depends
how
it
manifests
if
it
manifests.
As
I
refuse
to
go
out
and
play
with
the
tractor,
then
that's
probably
a
right
candidate
problem
if
it
manifests,
as
I
have
a
preference
like.
If
I
have
a
choice,
I'd
rather
be
doing
carpentry,
that's
fine!
You
know,
you've
checked
the
box
in
terms
of
the
work
process.
B
A
Yeah
for
the
application
there's
we
can
require,
for
example,
a
site
visit.
B
B
Yeah
yeah,
that's
my
estimate,
there's
going
to
be
an
affirmative
action
and
a
bunch
of
boilerplate
legal
documents
related
to
equal
opportunity
and
diversity
and
inclusion
that
you're
going
to
sign
the
the
department
of
labor
in
missouri
is
clearly
just
following
policy
here
and
it's
all
intent
based,
not
outcomes.
So,
if
you're,
if
the
class
of
apprentices
you
bring
on,
aren't,
isn't
very
diverse,
you
know
socioeconomically
or
otherwise.
B
Then
after
two
years
they're
going
to
do
they're
going
to
have
like
have
you
form
a
plan
such
that
your
recruiting
pool
matches
your
actual
population
of
apprentices
and
so
that
that's
their
approach
to
affirmative
action,
which
is
to
say,
if
you're
recruiting
from
anybody
in
the
world.
We
want
your
apprentice
class
to
roughly
reflect
that
level
of
diversity.
B
But
it's
you
know.
As
the
debra
was
explaining
this
to
me,
she
was
doing
her
best
to
like
allay
any
fears
of
government
overreach
and
like
she
was
clearly
like
look.
We
work
with
you,
it's
it's
all
for
a
good
intent.
We
want
to
help
underrepresented
and
marginalized
communities
participate
in
all
parts
of
the
labor
force.
B
A
B
B
People
might
ask,
like
the
the
distinction
is
going
to
be,
if
they're
not
on
site
but
they're
still
on
the
clock
so
like
you,
you're
still
going
to
have
to
pay
them
if
they're
doing
things
related
to
on-the-job
learning,
but,
like
your
program
is
going
to
be
unique
in
that
that's
even
possible,
and
so
I
honestly,
I
wouldn't
even
bring
it
up
like
me
like
going
home
to
see
your
family
vacation.
B
I
will
I
will
translate
everything
that
we
talked
about
I'll,
send
it
to
you
for
approval
and
then
send
it
to
deborah
and
tracy.
B
A
I
think
that's
it:
okay,
oh
nice,
nice
guy!
Actually
you
know
the
guy
who
counted
me
last
time.
Man,
that's
that's
kind
of
encouraging.
If
you
get
people
like
that,
like
the
guy
who
contacted
you
yeah.
A
Email
from
that's
that's
cool
stuff,
I
mean
the
the
underlying
message.
There
was
oh
and
I
was
going
to
ask
yeah.
So
he
got
diversity,
training
through
the
military
actually
because
he
met
a
lot
of
different
people
and
then
he
really
wants
to
help
the
world
and
stuff
like
that.
If
that's
the
kind
of
nature
of
person,
that
would
be
really
cool.
But
my
question
to
you
is:
how
does
the
being
on
a
say
in
the
navy
on
a
ship
gets
you
exposed
a
lot
of
diverse
people?
B
A
B
I
should
say
it's
like
underrepresented
groups
are
slightly
more
represented
in
the
military.
I
I
can't
that's
fine,
but
like
let
forget
that,
let's
assume
that
it
perfectly
mirrors
society
the
the
diversity
experience
of
the
military
is
that
you're
forced
to
interact
and
collaborate
with
people.
You
have
nothing
in
common,
so,
like
everything.
B
A
A
B
B
Oh
yeah
100
and
again
that's
a
selection
process
issue
and
like
just
keep
in
mind
that,
like
in
my
experience
in
the
military,
I
pulled
the
same
guard
duty
and
slept
in
the
same
foxhole.
As
you
know,
the
soldiers
I
led,
who
were
often
from
completely
different
socioeconomic
class-
and
so
you
have
this
like
bleeding
of
ideas,
this
osmosis
that
happens
just
from
sharing
hardship
between
otherwise
wouldn't
interact.
Okay,
no.
A
That's:
okay,
that's
cool,
that's
cool!
That
means
we'll
we'll
get
that
element
so
hence
like
people
start
for
freakiness
or
doing
things
a
different
way.
Perhaps
well
tell
me
about
this
doing
doing
things
a
different
way
like
innovation
and
all
that
is
there
good
openness
to
that
or
people
are
institutionalized
in
an
aspect
of
creativity.
B
I
think
well
I
mean
it's
it's
both,
and
it
just
goes
back
to
what
we
talked
about
yesterday
about
the
fat
tails,
so
the
the
veteran
you
get
who,
at
the
high
end
of
openness
and
sense
of
adventure
and
desire
for
impact
they
may
have,
they
may
also
exist
in
the
civilian
world.
The
difference
is
that
they
got
all
the
good
stuff
in
the
military
provides
on
top.
A
A
A
B
I
I
don't
see
a
reason
why
you
wouldn't
have
you
know,
there's
going
to
be
filters
right.
So,
like
the
first
gate,
maybe
you
know
submit
your
email
on
this
newsletter
right.
That
may
be
one
gate.
I
don't.
I
don't
see
a
reason
why
you
wouldn't
have
in
the
thousands
of
people
interested,
but
that,
but
that's
a
function
of
awareness
right
and
like
that's,
a
marketing
yeah
that
you
know.
A
A
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
and
you
think
you
think,
we'll
like
the
way
things
are
with
the
resource.
I
mean
you're
you're
the
main
man
on
that
in
terms
of
the
market
outreach
to
to
the
community,
but
you
think
with
your
just
between
you
and
you
and
me
that
kind
of
a
thousand
scale
number
would
materialize
there.
B
I
mean,
I
think
it's
gonna
take
some
time
and
I
think
it'll
depend
on
your
ability
to
guarantee
funding
for
our
ability
to
guarantee
that
the
money's
going
to
be
there
for
it.
But
it's
never
been
done
before
the
only
the
only
other
model
that
this
comes
close
to
is
college,
where
you
say,
there's
a
defined
path
where
we
lay
out
everything
for
you.
You
just
have
to
express
an
interest
that
doesn't
exist
anywhere
else
outside
the
university
system.
A
A
B
Yeah
and
veterans,
especially
but
people
in
general,
can
see
through
that
greenwashing
very
easily,
like
like
you're.
If
I
was,
if
I
was
a
pr
specialist,
my
instinct
would
be
like,
like
you're,
a
ted
fellow
who
served
on
the
president's,
you
know,
was
a
science
person
recognized
by
the
white
house.
That
alone
gives
you.
B
A
A
I
love
it.
Okay,
I
think
we're
gonna
kill
it,
so
my
promise
is
to
make
sure
that
we
get
our
stuff
rigorous,
like
we
have
enterprise
session
here,
where
we're
like
getting
very
rigorous
on
all
the
steps
and
ergonomics
of
the
build
and
the
the
detail
of
procedure,
so
that
yeah
we
can
guarantee.
I
mean
it's
looking
by
the
day.
Like
another
day,
we
put
up
the
first
floor
in
one
hour
and
15
minutes
from
modules
that
we
built
like
that
kind
of
stuff.
That's
data
and
that's
positive
data.
A
That's
3.5
minutes
per
4x8
module
installed
like
with
two
teams.
So
the
point
is
we're
getting
some
really
good
numbers
and,
like
the
more
data,
comes
in
we're
getting
more
positive
about
the
predictions.
So
it's
good,
it's
looking
good.
A
Yes,
so
my
job
is
to
make
sure
that
that
continues
and
is
nailed
rigorously,
and
then
we
will
be
able
to
accept
any
number
of
people.
You
know
because
the
cash
flow
will
be
there.
B
Yeah
and
that
guy
there
reached
out
to
you,
I'm
pretty
sure
his
name
is
rick.
The
same
guy
reached
out
to
me
like
he's
he's
in
college
now,
so
so
you're,
not
just
advertising
to
the
people
who
are
in
the
military
about
to
get
out
you're
advertising
to
literally
anybody
who
has
gi
bill.
They
haven't
used
yet.
A
B
A
B
We're
making
progress
I'll
I'll
get
something
in
your
box
tonight.