Open Telemetry Uncategorized, 8 Feb 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 2023-02-08 meeting

Description

OpenTelemetry PHP SIG Meeting

A

B

Morning, good day,.

A

B

A

You I am well. How are you.

B

Doing well, thanks for asking.

A

Did you have a good sleep.

B

I woke up very early this morning. I was about five I. Didn't wake me up earlier well, I've been waking up really early for whatever reason and I've been going to bed really early, which I think is a good thing, but I'm not certain.

A

I mean it sounds like something a healthy person would do so. You.

B

Know what I'd say earlier to bed early or early to rise, yeah yeah I, have that at that time.

A

I mean also, isn't it isn't it winter Where, You, Are.

B

It's very our all right now has been very strange, but it's like it will be pretty close to zero Celsius when we wake up and it will get to like 20 Celsius for the end of the day. Okay,.

A

So without leaping out a bit at five o'clock when it was Zero.

B

No, it's. My house is warm enough. We have really great accentual age back here in America, yeah yeah.

B

C

Hi guys, fine, thank you and you.

B

With the dream.

A

Okay I'm well too. Thank you.

A

I was just just looking at the bug report. You just follow. Prismac.

C

Yes, so I I'm wondering if you had to experience something similar because I tried to uh you know. I was experimenting with this Auto instrumentation today and I installed all packages and I tested very simple slim application, so I installed it all auto instrumentation packages and uh yeah and I try to export these traces to Zipkin and I discovered something like that.

A

C

Yeah, so the strange thing is that probably you haven't experienced this problem right.

A

I haven't, but my testing's been only with a probably with a smaller number of um sort of packages installed. I'm, not sure if that makes a difference.

C

From my perspective, there shouldn't be a difference, but I don't.

A

Yeah I'll I'll have a think about that and apply I wonder if something's just being too eager um things need to be sort of lazier and only really try to instantiate classes. When they're, when they're called when they're called for and not straight away,.

C

A

C

Seems to be General problem, not the uh not related to the WordPress, because we can have similar. uh You know behavior in other Auto instrumentation packages.

A

Yes, yes, so, yes, I'm, not sure what the solution is yet but I I think that I understand the problem and since we can't guarantee the order that these will be executed in um I, don't think we can I, don't think we have any control over that. Then um they just need to assume.

A

um That things don't exist yet, and maybe we defer that SDK auto loading somehow forever yeah I'm, not sure I'm, not sure yet, but I'll I'll certainly attach a debugger and go through it. Let's see if I can work something out, yeah.

C

Stop delayed loading.

A

Somehow seems to be seems to me to be the the way to do it.

C

um For now, I also don't know what would be the proper solution but, as you said, maybe we can do something like there and uh but first we have to debug that.

A

C

A

Right, I just need to understand what's happening yeah. This is a very good information in your bug. Reports.

A

Thank you for that. Thank you for being so thorough, um 25 fastball here.

B

We go yeah, it is a bit. It is bypass. Yes, okay, sir, do you want me to drive I'll drive the agenda today. Please thank you for going to share my screen.

B

Here are the notes you all can see my uh meetings.

A

B

By the way, by the way they also I found a GitHub issue that has like way way in my backlog that I had just not I had completely missed. They asked us to transfer ownership of these documents to the open, Telemetry cncf.

C

Account which I.

B

Totally get in case somebody leaves the project or somebody gets disgruntled or whatever so I just wanted to. Let you all know that I did that this week, so this document, this document that we're looking at right now is officially owned by the cncf. Okay, just figured I'd share that context, because maybe I don't think I.

C

B

It'll ever come up, but it may um all right. uh Enrico is not here correct. uh Just the Three Musketeers today.

A

B

Start here, Brett relax, composer version version requirements. I saw that uh Nevada was talking about this with you.

A

uh Yes, yes, so um look I, think he's probably right and I. Think the um um let's see what he's suggesting there is that those ones in the top level compose a drop Json stay as they are, um but it does raise other questions for me about what what is the um you know, the open, Telemetry meta package, um yeah yeah, a problem to think about um I yeah I'm, not sure what to do without yet. Okay.

B

So, there's something new going on a little bit. Yes, all right incorrect metrics into my path, I think that this one is just sort of hanging out this person's stopped responding. So at what point should we close? This is.

C

B

This one's pretty this one's, pretty simple to me. It.

A

Is I think what he's found he's a bug?

A

um Yeah? Yes, so probably yeah. Maybe it could be picked up by one of us. Yeah I. Think.

B

We can I'll just make a comment.

B

A

B

Being diplomatic, yes,.

A

B

Right, let's go back here; okay, that's all those no contribute open, pull requests, no instrumentation or pull requests project. This is the auto experimentation, composer bug that y'all was talking about. Yes, uh Brett, uh you had stealth version of composer Json, incompatible with subtrue splits. Yes,.

A

B

You want to you want to talk about this I.

A

Think that one's done so I created the same issue in um oh, no, sorry, it's not so that's half fixed extra for contrib. This is the bug attached that pull request. We were just talking about.

B

um Okay, so we can this one is uh I, guess I should assign this too yeah.

A

uh Yeah please: okay sounds good together.

B

A

B

A

um I thought there.

B

Used to be I thought there used to be like a status column. Oh because it's not assigned to a project. If you decide to tracing, then you can assignment.

B

You can say.

C

B

B

It's there, uh it's their stab at jira, I, guess, yeah.

A

Okay, that makes sense.

B

But but we have to be careful with that right part, because uh atlassin is an Australian company and we have to watch out for your country's livelihood. I guess yes,.

A

We should definitely use their products.

B

Yeah I shouldn't say I, like Europe I tolerate you all.

C

B

uh Forced flush should be an API method, looks like the very common on this yeah.

A

So I'm thinking about that a lot at the moment, because it's sort of the next block of how I want to use open telemetry.

A

um So there's a there's, a conversation happening on the specification.

A

Well, there's an issue: there's not a lot of conversation um in this spec repo um I think this can just hang around waiting for something to come with that.

B

Cool all right so uh I'll sign us to the tradition project, and then we will so it's a wedding triage because I think that's what it is.

B

um Is this a help wanted or just something you would like to tackle.

A

I, don't think it's helped wanted. Okay, unless uh any maintainers have a have a strong opinion or an idea, um but no I think it's it's something to sort of pick up and dig out with the um uh specification seek.

B

Okay, um you know what I will take this and I will go and ask questions about it.

A

Okay, thank you. You're welcome foreign.

B

Well, I guess that's! This is pretty buggy.

A

Butterflies flush I just saw that one yeah.

B

This is very buggy I guess to do all right, updating updating the symphony, SDK bundle. I know- we've talked about this one a couple times.

A

Eight years.

A

Yes, yes, so there was so someone picked someone started on it. Someone else picked up their work. They thought they had it working pretty well and I think if they ever popped their head up again, we should just get them to um submit a pull request for whatever state it's in. If it's an improvement.

B

Do you remember, do you remember who had admit that.

B

A

It was someone that came along after Cedric.

C

I think that someone uh on the slack mentioned about that, oh.

B

I see it: okay, let's see, let's see if we can find it real, quick on.

A

Another screen, maybe Anthony titler yeah,.

C

B

Yeah I see that's right on January 25th, cool um I'm, just gonna tag him in this just so that we don't have to go back and figure that out again yeah yeah but says what is this GitHub handle?

B

Let's see if I can find it.

B

B

Users there's one user Anthony.

A

B

Linked correct, so that's doesn't always happen right. So that's all of our open books. uh Brett. You have the first actual agenda item uh yeah yeah. This.

A

Is one tip I just speak it something that I thought about I've forgotten a couple of times, but um we've got that whole backwards compatibility layer, um but we're not really maintaining it. um Certainly some of the things.

A

um In a very old.

A

um So it was a question for the maintainers of um you know: should we just go through and remove most, if not all, of the backwards compatibility stuff, particularly because we're now at beta and they're all hacks? For you know, ancient versions of the library.

B

I think that we should remove any backwards compatibility that we possibly can if we um I think we should remove any backers compatibility if we can that we can, especially before we continue on with beta, so that people don't. um You know that XKCD about heating the space using the space bar as a heater you're, all familiar with that one I know. Well, let's show you this.

B

So this is the this. Is the comic that I'm referring to talks about CPU? You know what longer overheats when you hold down the space bar and then you just say um this updated broke, my workflow, my control key it's hard to reach this. Is this. uh This feels very much like a backwards compatibility thing. It's like we know we.

A

Know if you leave.

C

It if you leave it in.

B

There people will definitely do it, so we should yes remove it so that people don't do so. These things that we're stuck supporting a backwards compatibility layer that nobody seems to care about. Yep right, that's my that's my opinion.

C

Yeah I agree all right.

A

B

Was gonna say well, we have to remember that it's I forget this all the time like ever every week we are all non-paid individual contributors to this project. It's like we need to prioritize the things that um that makes sense for our group and I think supporting a backwards compatibility player for some promise that nobody made to nobody else's not worthwhile to me, but you know we can remove it and say hey if you want this, please contribute you know. You know what.

A

I'm saying yeah I mean you can kind of leave the functionality there for now um yeah because it might come in useful, but the actual the implementations that we've got are you know I I I, don't see the point of leaving BC in, for you know more than one minor efficiency.

B

Yeah another another choice always is to flag off backwards compatibility and so okay still there, if you want to use it by default, it's off. You have to do explicitly. Add that flag to use this pattern.

A

Yeah, that's good interesting thought.

B

um We did that we do that all the time at work. It's like some old API functionality that somebody May rely on, but most likely not it's. The problem for us is it's tough to gather observability around our observability tool and that's pretty meta but I. Think you'll understand I mean we don't know how many people are using this part of the library, so it's very difficult to processors say like yo shut it off.

B

But if we like gracefully be greeted, then we'll probably be in a much better State, most from our contributor standpoint and from end user protected too yeah.

A

And I mean it's really only going to affect people who been around for a while anyway, I suspect and we've got some old code. Yeah.

B

If some, if somebody really needs it, they're going to yell, oh yeah, yes, yes, okay, but I think we're all on the same thing. Speaking of compatibility, uh priority of Windows support traffic.

C

Yes, so I'm wondering if we need that at all and what is the priority of it.

B

I have I have feelings about this, but do you have feelings about this like.

A

Do any kind of goes back to what you said before no one's really asking worried, um I think best effort and um if, if someone wants to come, if someone cares enough and knows about Windows, then they can sort of help out and fix it up. Yeah I think it's much.

B

Easier to say, this is not currently working on Windows, but I've been trying to like shoehorn in with no support where it may be. The case.

C

B

Nobody ever uses it. I can't I, can't think of a direct use case where this library is going to be super super helpful in Windows, especially, like extension, support for things. But again you never know what people would want, but I think that's not what we have to prioritize from my perspective at this point, I'm also a Windows hater, so yeah.

A

I mean we've had so far, I think one Windows user come along asking for help. um So it's not it's not impossible um and if you're doing instrumentation in Windows, you probably want to also do auto instrumentation. But but if we don't have the resources to to do this, then you know I. Don't.

C

Know yes, Market Market is experimental.

C

It will take some time to to um to build it as Windows, because for now I am experiencing some problems. It seems to be Pro SDK problem as configure scripts that generates some code. It's uh it. It generates wrong code, so I, don't know why yet and uh yeah. It probably requires some time to to figure out this problem yeah. Why.

A

Don't you raise a bug against the country, repo and slapper Help Wanted label on it yeah.

C

A

Yeah then walk away sure.

B

I, don't even think it's about I, just think it's uh because there are not supporting windows but I guess we haven't explicitly stated known as foreign.

C

A

Yeah yeah: well, it's a bugging that it kind of at least compiles for Windows. But right yes, correctly,.

B

Yeah I understand but I guess. My point is like that would be cognitive overhead. Every time we look at our bug list and go. Why is this a bug? Oh yeah? It's because we don't explain because but I don't know, but we.

A

Can we can do a fun workouts like if you feel like that sort of thing to do?

A

Yeah I mean listen, it does have some visibility, um yeah and you know no one's going to know that we need help if we don't advertise. If we need help.

B

True, that's also true, so.

C

Maybe I create a bug and uh if we will have a time, then we can try to fix that. Otherwise someone else can try to fix that. That's.

B

Right, yeah, okay, I think that's great.

A

Yeah and look if, if no one else wants it badly enough or to even complain about it, um and it certainly doesn't.

C

Really not going to be running.

A

I'm not going to be running this on Windows and probably you two aren't either so yeah, not a high priority for us. We've got other things we can be.

C

B

Yeah, that's that's my opinion too much yeah.

C

This one we discussed at the beginning, so we can skip it right.

B

Right, okay, cool uh the GitHub co-pilot Quest, so I found out yesterday that GitHub called pilot is offered for free for uh contributor uh for contributors, open source projects that are more popular I'm, not yet sure what the definition of popular is I just want to.

B

Let you all know that I asked about that, and then that uh started an interesting topic in the maintainers channel about whether or not autocompleted code is of kts and cncf projects, so just want to make sure to make sure you all are aware of that I'll, let you know how that goes as we move forward, but it's a I, don't know it's an interesting time that we're living in where you can write a comment and have it on a complete a code.

A

B

uh I think that will be interesting to test out the, and the last thing I have on the agenda is social.

C

B

Posts we had, um we I wrote that blog post last week and it's on those explanatory blog and I also posted on LinkedIn and Twitter. If there's any place that y'all would like me to also post it or, if you'd like to post it other places. Please.

C

Let me know: mm-hmm, okay,.

A

um I've reposted it on LinkedIn, but nobody follows me, so it was yeah.

B

I think I got like three or four Twitter likes, so I'm, not really yeah I'm, not really holding my breath for a lot but I just figured I'd like and maybe I'll. You know. Oh there's another place that I can post a person that uh PHP Discord.

A

B

All right, um nobody else have anything about discuss today, foreign.

B

Place next week, bye.