►
From YouTube: 2022-09-15 meeting
Description
OpenTelemetry Prometheus WG
C
A
Okay,
I'm
looking
for
our
notes
and
my
brain.
Oh
working
group,
I'm
like
looking
for
the
wrong
wrong
keywords:
thanks
race,
we're
on
it
with
the
links
all
right.
Hey
today
is
this
september
15th,
okay,.
D
A
Yeah,
absolutely
so,
at
a
high
level,
the
discussion
group
is
loosely
agenda,
but
really
ideally
targeted
towards
end
users,
and
this
end
user
discussion.
Wow
words
this
end
user
working
group
is
more
on
the
facilitation
side,
and
so
we're
going
to
talk
about
things
like
social
media
marketing.
And
how
do
we
get
more
people
to
come
to
the
end
user
discussion
groups
and
what
blogs?
How
do
we
help
get
out?
A
The
word
that
these
resources
exist
in
the
community
and
what
can
we
do
as
facilitators
to
make
end
users
voices
heard
within
the
project?
So
we
also
talk
about
things
like
surveys
and
analysis
and
feedback
and
interviews,
and
that
kind
of
like
this
is
more
of
a
tactical
facilitation
side,
where
that
is
more,
hopefully
valuable
for
end
users
who
don't
want
to
come
and
hear
us
talk
about
what
we're
going
to
tweet.
C
A
Okay,
great
thank
you
rhys
for
putting
together
a
quick
agenda
cj.
I
am
not
sure
you
are
very
welcome
to
stay
but
we're,
and
if
you
would
like
to
add
stuff
to
the
agenda,
we
can
totally
talk
about
it
too.
I
don't
know
what
you
are
looking
for,
but
usually
how
we,
how
we
do
this
is
we
spend
like
a
minute-ish
and
add
stuff
to
the
agenda
and
then
start
rolling
through
it.
C
C
A
Yeah
awesome
well,
martin,
we're
just
adding
last-minute
stuff
to
the
agenda
and
then
we'll
jump
into
it.
So
please
feel
free
to
throw
anything
you
want
to
talk
about
in
there,
but
the
first
thing
is:
we
had
both
the
americas
and
emea
discussion
groups
today
within
only
eight
hours
of
each
other,
and
so
do
just
a
quick
retro
and
I'm
not
sure
forward.
Trow
tell
me
what
is
a
forward
true.
A
So
it
sounds
like
so
a
quick
recap:
we
had
12
attendees
at
the
americas
discussion
group
at
least
half
of
them
were
from
vendors,
and
then
it
sounds
like
the
emea
discussion
group
had
six
total
attendees
martin.
Is
that
correct.
E
Yeah
we
had
one
that
well
one
person
that
dropped
off
came
on
at
the
start
and
then
dropped
off,
didn't
really
say
much
at
all,
and
then
the
other
two
were
honeycomb
customers,
so
kind
of
became
a
bit
of
a
honeycomb
support
group.
A
I
I
don't
know
how
you're
addressing.
A
The
vendor
neutrality,
part
and
the
goals,
but
certainly
there
are
really
good
vendored
spaces
to
get
folks
to
get
support,
but
obviously
it's
a
fine
line
to
walk
because
we
want
it
to
be
under
neutral,
but
we
want
end
users
to
lead
the
discussions
and
and
get
what
they
need
out
of
the
time.
But
so
I
guess
we'll
just
we'll
keep
an
eye
on
that,
and
perhaps
if
that
becomes
a
recurring
pattern,
we
can
talk
to
our
friends
at
honeycomb
about
finding
a
good
forum.
A
A
E
Okay,
so
yeah,
but
yeah
me
and
michael,
were
on
there
and
we
were
it.
Was
it
came
up
from
them?
The
two
people
who
were
on
the
call
talking
about
them
moving
from
data
dog
to
honeycomb
and
their
challenges,
which
me
and
michael
found
hilarious
that
we
were
on
the
call,
and
it
was
me
and
him
and
two
people,
and
they
wanted
to
talk
about
honeycomb
and
observability
and
our
evangelism
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
E
So
we
found
quite
interesting,
but
it
was
the
same
the
time
before,
where
it
was
on
econ
customers,
so
yeah
the
honeycomb
customers,
all
vendors
but
severing
joined
as
well.
So
it
was
me
michael
and
severin,
from
abdi
from
the
vendor
side,
but
yeah
there
was,
there
was
one
one
person
talking
mostly
and
the
others
were
non
non-verbal
really
and
didn't
have
cameras
on
either
so.
A
We
had
a
little
bit
better
engagement
today,
but
funny
enough,
we
did
have
a
similar
story
around
migrating,
the
same
same
vendors,
so
that
was
that
was
kind
of
interesting.
So
really
like.
I
think
the
the
question
for
us
as
a
group
is:
how
do
we
promote
these
sessions
to
end
users,
because
that's
the
the
folks
that
we
want
to
target
and
they're
going
to
like
we
can
sit
here
as
vendors
and
say:
open
telemetry
is
the
way,
but
we
say
that
everywhere.
How
can
we
help
end
users
get
together
together?
A
Let's,
let's
recap
how
I've
I've
been
like
out
of
the
office
and
sick
and
crazy
for
the
last
couple
of
weeks.
How
did
we
end
up
advertising
the
most
recent
end
user
discussion
group.
B
I
posted
in
the
general
open,
telemetry
channel
the
end
user
channel.
I
shared
it
in
our
new
relic
channel
too
in
cncs
slack.
I
also
tweeted
it
god
yesterday
and
then
I
saw
that
severan
and
michael
retweeted
it
and
I
know
like
rin,
also
oh,
my
gosh,
I'm
getting
tweeted
so
many
times.
I.
C
Went
through
and
posted
on
the
honeycomb
channels,
I
posted
in
the
observability
of
monitoring
slack
a
couple
other
places,
but
I
didn't
really
get
to
it
in
advance
enough
to
pull
some
of
the
larger
levers
like
having
the
cncf
tweet
about
it.
A
I
concur,
I
think,
okay,
so
for
next
time,
cncf
promotion
via
twitter.
I
think
it
would
also.
I
don't
know
how
many
people
like
we
should
ask
michael
how
many
people
read
his
newsletter
yeah
michael.
A
A
Michael's
newsletter
vendor
tweets.
E
E
I
I
don't
know
how
we
get
that
across,
but
it
really
didn't
feel
like
it
was
clear
which
might
be
some
of
the
reason
for
lack
of
adoption
that
they
don't
know.
What's
what's
the
reason
why
a
user
would
attempt
that?
E
E
That
was
just
my
feeling
from
talking
to
them
that
you
know
we
had
to
explain
what
it
was
that
you
know,
and
I
had
to
start
by
asking
some
people
some
questions
to
start
getting
things
started,
so
we
could
actually
get
some
people
talking
about
stuff.
D
So
I
I
noticed
that
from
the
open
telemetry
website
there
is
the
community
tab
and
then
from
there
you
can
go
into
special
interest
groups
and
I
think
we're
like
buried
there.
D
I'm
wondering
if
this
is
worth
calling
out
in
a
more
prominent
way.
B
Yes,
I
decided
it
as
the
final
or
not
final,
but
the
last
point
in
the
agenda,
so
severan
newman
actually
put
together
a
pr
about
adding
a
dedicated
end
user
space
to
the
open
telemetry.io
site
so
that
we
could
more
easily
make
these
types
of
announcements
and
they'll
be
hopefully
clearer.
A
I
am
tangentially
working
on
a
blog
post
to
just
kind
of,
like
recap,
all
of
the
end
user
stuff.
So
we
we
had
it
in
a
blog
post.
I
don't
know,
but
right
before
we
launched
the
discussion
groups,
it's
now
been
two
months
and
so
put
put
a
more
focused
blog
post
about
hey
what
here's
the
resources
that
we've
got
for
you
all
here
are
the
options
and
here's
how
to
get
involved
in
more
of
a
call
to
action.
C
Okay,
so
down
at
the
bottom
of
our
agenda,
I
added
a
copy
of
my
open
of
the
the
plan
that
I
use
for
the
open,
telemetry
and
practice
meetups.
C
I
think
it
would
be
better
if
we
either
a
get
together
a
whole
calendar
of
things
and
go
through
this
plan
or
be
whoever
is
responsible
for
the
end
user
groups.
That
month
goes
through
a
list
like
this.
A
I
think
this
is
the
first
time
I
am
seeing
this
so
I
haven't,
I
haven't
reviewed
it.
I
don't
have
any
comment
right
now.
A
Okay,
and
so
this
is
just
a
thing
that
chills
out
on
opentelemetry.io
continuously,
oh
and
it's
in
the
top.
I
like
that
top
now.
B
C
I
don't
on
the
green
one.
Phillip
goes
from
honeycomb,
so
I
usually
leave
it
to
him.
A
Let's
cross
check
this
event
promotion
plan
with
the
comsig,
because
thus
far
they
have
been
managing
the
vast
majority
of
comms
within
the
project.
I'm
sure
that
they've
thought
about
this
in
the
past,
so
it
would
be
good
just
to
cross-check
our
thinking
with
them.
A
And
they're
super
responsive
in
their
slack
channel.
So
when
do
you
want
to
take
that
action
item.
C
B
Wren,
you
brought
up
a
good
point
about
you
know:
how
can
we
encourage
more
engagement
between
vendors
and
end
users?
I
don't
know
if
you
wanted
to
if
we
wanted
to
touch
on
that,
a
little
bit.
A
I
didn't
it
wasn't
my
intention
to
discourage
vendors
from
speaking.
Do
you
think
that
that
happened.
C
I
don't
know
that
you're
necessarily
discouraging
it.
I
think
people
are
showing
up
with
the
intention
of
listening
yeah,
but
just
wondering
if
there's
a
way
to
try
to
use
questions
or
something
else,
to
open
more
dialogue.
A
I
wonder
if
we
could
do
like
an
icebreaker
and
just
get
everyone
to
say
one
thing
at
the
beginning
and
then
that
could
encourage
them
to
participate
throughout
the
discussion.
A
C
Yeah
reason
I
have
never
really
asked
people
for
money,
so
if
someone
has
experience
with
this
is
how
you
ask
for
sponsorship
for
an
event,
that'd
be
great.
C
A
B
Yeah
and
then
we
were,
you
know
if
we
could
get
vendors
to
pitch
in
a
little
bit
more,
even
and
you
know
what
kind
of
incentive
could
we
offer
for
that?
The
only
thing
I
could
think
of
was
hey
you.
Thank
you.
These
are
our.
You
know
whatever
gold,
platinum
sponsors.
For
this
event,
like
that's
the
only
thing
I
can
think
of
that
would
be
like
bender
neutrally.
A
Think
that
my
my
assumption
is
that
paul
bruce
would
love
to
talk
about
this.
He
is
the
organizer
of
olliefest
and
he
has
a
really
great
mentorship
perspective
and
attitude,
and
I
think
if
the
two
of
you
asked
him
that
question
he's
gonna
school
you
on
like
from
a
place
of
experience
versus
theory,
and
I
think
he's
gonna-
be
the
best
person
that
will
be
able
to
answer
that
question.
For
you.
B
C
A
Initial
thoughts
on
the
end
user
panel-
oh
my
gosh,
I
love
it.
I
think
we're
gonna
have
to
find
folks,
which
might
be
a
little
bit
more
tricky
and
definitely
a
vendored
sponsored
activity,
but
putting
a
request
out
in
open,
telemetry,
cncf
slack
to
start
generating.
Those
leads,
because
I
I'd
prefer
people
vendors
not
to
be
like
hey.
A
Do
you
want
to
talk
at
this
thing
because
usually
at
least
at
my
company,
the
folks
who
are
interacting
directly
with
customers
to
ask
about
that
are
going
to
be
people
who
aren't
super
familiar
with
what
we're
trying
to
to
achieve,
and
so
some
of
that
message
could
get
lost
a
little
bit
in
the
middle.
Some
sales
folks
aren't
quite
experienced
with
vendor
neutrality
yet
and
they're
all
learning.
A
C
Right,
I
think
it's
definitely
a
corporate
versus
open
source
thing.
I
would
say
I
think
we
should
create
some
materials
about
the
end
user
panel.
That
will
help
people
at
different
companies
go
out
to
their
users
and
try
to
see
of
these
six
companies
who
are
sponsoring
if
everyone
can
get
one
user.
B
Yeah,
I
think
that
was
actually
another
thing
that
now
that
I
think
about
it.
Well,
now
that
you
mentioned
it
rin
that
we
did
in
the
previous
one
was,
I
got
like
two
or
three
people
like
confirmed
to
come
in
and
yeah
that
wasn't
something
that
I
did
this
time.
C
No,
I
get
it
everybody's
busy.
The
other
thing
I
just
thought
of
is
I
don't
really
mind
putting
the
lean
coffees
on
the
open,
telemetry
and
practice
meetup
it'll
make
it
look
like
more,
is
going
on,
and
then
people
will
find
it
through
meetup.com.
The
negative
of
that
is.
We
could
get
zoom
bombed
again,
but
as
long
as
we're
using
zooms
that
are
safe
and
secure
and
not
like
incorrectly
provided
by
cncf,
not
that
I'm
bitter
or
anything,
we
should
be
fine.
C
C
A
I
I
wonder
if
the
ambassador
program
will
provide
a
zoom
link,
that
you
can
use
that
won't
be
auto
recorded
since
every
open,
telemetry
zoom
thing
is
auto
recorded.
So
it
might.
I
thought
it
might
provide
resources,
so
maybe
one
of
those
resources,
and
that
would
be
really
great
for
the
end
user
discussion
groups,
because
we
don't
have
to
ask
martin
in
the
middle
of
the
night
for
zoom
link,
and
we
don't
have
to
have
this
like
challenge
with
google,
google
hangouts,
and
so
it
just
brings
continuity.
A
No,
so
you
can,
you
can
request
that
I
can.
I
requested.
C
A
A
And
so
I
mean
realistically
everything:
does
it
a
little
bit
differently
right,
but
they're
we're
the
first
end
user
working
group?
We
don't
own
a
code
base.
We've
got
stickers
like
I
think.
We've
got
the
the
right
thing.
A
C
Yeah,
that
would
be,
I
think,
helpful
if
everybody
had
access
to
the
calendar,
but
the
other
thing
I
was
going
to
say
is
apparently
inside
the
calendar.
Working
group
and
austin
has
shared
these
with
me
before
there
are
zooms,
which
you
can
schedule
in
a
process
to
schedule
them
what
I
would
say
after
my
last
experience
is
when
you
schedule
that
zoom
test
the
zoom
host
key
to
make
sure
that
it
does
the
thing.
C
Not
really,
I
mean,
I
think
it
sounds
like
the
follow-up
here
is
really
for
us
to
develop
some
materials
for
the
vendors
to
go
out
to
their
users
with.
Is
that.
C
C
No,
we
did
that
last
time
and
what
happened
was
the
cncf
insisted
that
everyone
attending
the
event
had
to
buy
the
entire
cloud
native
con
pass,
which
is
a
tremendous
amount
of
money?
So
this
is
why
we
are
not
attached.
Like
sorry.
D
Yeah
I've
run
into
that
before,
and
actually
they
were
not.
This
was
not.
Kubecon
was
a
different
conference
but
similar
issues
where
they
actually
were
not
even
okay
with
us
scheduling
an
event
like
this
around
the
conference
because
they
felt
like
we
were
taking
advantage
of
the
fact.
So
there's
nothing
like
that.
Without
there.
C
No,
we
we
have
spoken
to
them
about
this
event.
They
know
this
is
going
on.
This
is
within
their
guidelines.
There
are
certain
things
we
cannot
do
like.
We
can't
schedule
it
on
the
main
conference
days
and
we
can't
got
it.
People
travel,
we
can't
bus
people
to
the
event
and
there
are
a
few
other
things
we
can't
do,
but
we're
not
doing
any
of
that.
D
C
C
The
other
thing
that
happened
is
they
let
one
of
the
more
niche
companies
sponsor
open
observability
day
without
sort
of
consulting
anyone
at
the
open,
telemetry
project
and
people
are
mad
about
that.
Frankly,
I
forget
who's
whose
trademark
open
observability
is,
but
it's
basically
like
they
just
let
them
buy
a
day
on
monday,
and
so
people
are
kind
of
mad
about
that.
C
I
don't
know
the
context
of
them,
I
mean
I'm
assuming
they
just
threw
money
at
the
cncf,
but
I'm
forgetting
whose
trademark
open
observability
is.
But
it's
not
a
group
that
I
super
recognize
to
be
involved
in
the
project
or
whatever.
C
Yeah
they
have
solid
marketing.
I
think
just
everybody
was
like
hey.
You
really
did
this
without
consulting
the
entire
observability
project
that
you
have.
A
We're
we're
working
on
our
relationship
with
cncs
yeah.
B
C
A
Yeah,
let's
just
slap
select
me
stay
in
touch,
I
feel
like
calendar
access
can
be
granted
that
quickly
great
as
long
as
no
one's
on
fto
time
off
so
yeah
select
me
tomorrow.
If
we
don't
get
any
movement
on
it,.
C
Okay,
great
good
job
see
y'all
later.
A
C
B
No,
it
sounds
like
they've
got
the
next
two
sessions
program,
so
I
think
this
is
just
to
help
put
it
on
the
calendar.
A
Excellent
okay,
end
user
online
space-
I
think
rin
was
talking
about
that.
Also
so
add
thoughts
and
suggestions
to
that
pr
anything
else
to
talk
for
end
user
online
space.
I
need
to
look
at
it.
B
Yeah
sovereign
has
a
preview
link
at
the
top,
and
I
made
a
suggestion
to.
B
A
All
right
next
topic
survey
analysis,
so
I'm
brushing
off
my
tableau
skills
wow.
They
got
really
rusty
and
so
started
to
analyze
the
community
survey-
and
I
thought
it
was
pretty
rad
that
the
nps
for
I
believe,
there's
60
responses
to
the
survey
they
project
nps
and,
if
you're
not
familiar,
that's
net
promoter
score,
which
is
a
commonly
used
metric
across
multiple
industries,
indicating
user
satisfaction
and
user
experience.
A
Anything
above
50
is
generally
considered
pretty
good.
Anything
above
60
is,
I
don't
know.
According
to
the
vlog
world
is
like
amazing,
and
so
you
can
look
at
the
math.
The
math
is
totally
fuzzy,
but
it
is
an
industry
kind
of
standard.
Our
project
nps
is
56,
which
is
quite
good,
which
basically
means
we
have
more
people
who
promote
and
are
excited
and
engaged
and
happy.
You
know
all
of
these
great
positive
adjectives
that
people
that
are
considered
detractors,
who
like
dislike
or
are
unhappy
or
may
like
talk
against
the
project.
A
I
wanted
to
reach
out
to
cncf
and
see
if
they've
ever
put
nps
scores
for
any
of
the
other
projects,
so
we
could
benchmark
against
other
open
source
projects.
I
don't
know
if
that's
a
thing,
but
I
thought
I
would
mention
it,
but,
generally
speaking,
the
satisfaction
of
the
project
is
skewing
towards
positive.
A
Thanks
so
yes,
and
so
I'm
working
on
a
tableau
public
workbook-
and
I
want
to
get
this
stuff
out
of
google
sheets
and
into
something
that
people
can
like
click
around
and
because
I
think
tableau
has
got
a
really
great
interface
for
ad
hoc
visualization
and
explore
exploring
surveys
and
setting
us
up
for
the
day
when
we
have
a
thousand
survey
responses
right
now,
it's
only
about
60.,
so
just
thought.
I
would
throw
that
update
out
there.
D
Maybe
I'll
maybe
I
should
do
an
intro,
I
feel,
like
you
guys,
all
know,
each
other.
That
would.
D
I
work
for
google.
I've
only
been
here.
I
guess
three
months
now,
I'm
actually
fairly
new
to
the
whole,
like
observability
space
I
spent
about
12
years
at
a
company
broadcom,
which
is
like
now
buying
vmware.
D
I
only
found
out
about
that
after
I
left
so
anyway.
I
I
actually
do
have
like
two
or
three
years
of
experience
on
the
open
source
side,
where
I
helped
set
up
a
new
project
under
linux
foundation,
not
in
cncf
it's
under
the
open
mainframe
project
called
zoe
z-o-w-e
dot
org,
so
I
kind
of
went
through
all
the
pain
and
everything
of
like
building
an
open
source
project
from
scratch,
and
I've
been
involved
in
it
on
and
off.
D
But
this
is
my
foray
into
the
open
telemetry
site
and
with
my
role
at
google,
where
I
kind
of
wear
three
hats,
which
are
one
helping.
Gcp
services
start
producing
observability
data
in
a
common
format
which
hope
I'm
hoping
will
be
hotel
and
then
our
teams
that
are
contributing
to
hotel,
I'm
sort
of
the
product
manager
for
them.
And
then
I
also
work
with
our
tracing
team,
which
has
a
product
called
cloud
trace
as
well.
A
I
I
mean
okay,
I
drink
the
kool-aid
open
telemetry
is,
is
the
future
standard,
but
it's
it's
always
great
to
bring
in
new
perspectives,
and
I
guess
maybe,
let's
all
do
a
quick
super
quick
round
of
introductions,
so
I'm
sharkrida
in
my
day
job
I'm
a
director
of
software
engineering
at
new
relic
new
relic
is
an
observability
market
and
open
telemetry
is
in
the
observability
market
also,
but
a
little
bit
different,
and
so
I
help
with
new
relics,
transition
to
supporting
and
providing
really
good
experiences
based
on
open,
telemetry
and
anywhere
that
we
can
remove
any
vendor
code.
A
So,
like
things
like
native
ingest,
is
what
I
want
for
our
customers.
So
that
is
what
I
do
in
my
day.
Job
and
I
had
started
this
end
user
working
group.
I
think
in
around
februaryish
time
frame
of
this
year,
just
with
the
understanding
that
the
more
we
can
build
a
sense
of
community
we've
got
a
great
sense
of
community
with
the
contributors
of
the
project,
but
the
more
we
can
build
a
sense
of
community
also
with
end
users.
B
I'll
do
a
quick,
intro
hi,
I'm
rhys!
I
am
a
developer
relations
engineer
at
new
relic.
I
obviously
work
with
char
and
yeah.
I
I'm
been
with
new
relic
for
a
few
years,
but
you
know
just
started
my
open
solution
journey
last
year.
So
still
learning
a
lot
and
very
excited
to
have
your
help
with
the
end
user
community.
E
Martin
developer
advocate
for
honeycomb
originators
of
observability
I'll,
say
no,
you
know,
but
yeah.
I've
been
involved
with
honeycomb
for
like
five
years,
just
came
on
as
a
developer
advocate
for
this
year,
but
I
wrote
their.net
libraries
five
years
ago
when
they
didn't
really
know
what.net
was,
I
think,
because
they
were
all
go
at
the
time
and
ruby
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
E
So
but
yeah
I've
been
doing
things
since
way
before
open
tracing
and
and
the
open,
telemetry
sort
of
merger
thing
that
happened
and
back
when
it
was
all
events
and
more
events
than
logs
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
So
I
am
also
a
consultant
on
the
side,
so
I
have
external
clients
that
I
consult
with
around
the
uk
and
banks
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
So
but
yeah
that's,
I
am
as
ingrained
into
observability
as
as
well.
E
Charity
is
really
because
it
is
my
identity,
observability
and
dotnet.
Basically
me
so,
but
yeah
I
like
to
that.
The
idea
of
the
community.
Obviously
honeycomb
strategy
is
the
more
open.
Telemetry
users
are
the
more
users.
E
We've
got
that
we
can
go
after,
and
so
the
idea
of
expanding
open
telemetry
is
core
to
what
we
want
to
do
so
all
this
stuff
around
end
users
and
getting
them
involved,
and
we've
got
this
big
thing
at
the
moment
around
things
like
the
docs
and
that
kind
of
stuff
like
saying,
we've
got
this
community
of
people
around
the
maintainers,
which
are
people
who
bypass
the
docks
because
well
they
know
how
to
do
it
all
we're
now.
E
Moving
from
that
those
early
adopters,
the
people
who
would
really
sort
of
dig
deep
to
try
and
understand
all
of
this
stuff
we're
now
moving
into
that
early
majority.
Now,
where
we've
got
loads
of
people
that
want
to
use
it.
So
how
do
we
get
all
of
these
people
to
not
look
at
it
and
just
go?
E
I
need
a
degree
in
computer
science
just
to
understand
this,
I'm
not
going
to
do
it.
So
this
is
why
I'm
trying
to
be
involved
more
with
the
end
user,
community,
stuff
and
obviously
rin,
who
was
on
before
there
and
the
community
manager
for
monaco,
so
rin's
trying
to
bring
me
in
wherever
just
to
try
and
help
and
obviously
in
the
uk,
there's
not
as
many
there's.
Basically
me
and
michael
really
then
uk
side
and
on
that
side
to
to
try
and
push
it.
E
So
me
and
michael
from
aws
on
the
uk
trying
to
side
yeah,
I
trying
to
push
it
as
well.
So
that's
me.
A
I
think
a
really
interesting
analyst
quote
so:
I've
been
talking
to
analysts
about
open
telemetry
and
they
said
to
me.
Vendors
have
identified
open
telemetry
as
the
right
solution,
which
is
is
good,
but
that
is
not
doesn't
make
for
a
successful
project,
and
so
really
we
need
the
end
users.
We
need
the
adoptions
and
try
to
get
it
out
of
the
the
echo
chamber
of
we
understand
it
so
well
and
we
promise
it's
the
right
thing
right,
we're
not
necessarily
totally
neutral
in
our
efforts
to
promote
and
grow
adoption.
E
I'm
100
confident
it
is
the
right
solution
just
because
the
people
who
have
helped
implement
it
once
they've
got
past
those
documentation,
burdens
and
understanding
how
it
works.
They're
then
gone.
Yes,
yes,
give
me
more
of
this
because
I
don't.
I
don't
have
to
choose
my
vendor
before.
I
start
writing
my
code.
I
don't
have
to
work
without
it
from
the
start.
E
I
can
do
all
of
the
and
they're
like
yes,
absolutely,
but
then,
when
they
start
talking
to
you
about
the
problems
and
the
dot-net,
one
was
just
hilarious
when
you
look
at
the
dot-net
docs
and
it
gives
you
three
different
ways
to
do
the
same
thing
on
the
same
dock
page
and
you're
like
yeah,
all
right
I'll.
Let
you
off
that?
That's
not
that's,
not
a
good
document!
E
So
yeah
it's!
It
is
the
right
solution.
A
A
It's
managed
through
the
packages
themselves.
I
think
that
is
going
to
be
one
of
the
great
technical
benefits
of
open
telemetry
over
the
long
term.
Vendor
neutrality
is
great,
but
I
hope
the
performance
and
performance
performance,
the
better
performance
of
open,
telemetry,
the
source
code.
Instrumentation,
is
really
going
to
be
something
that
shines
once
we
can
get
through
the
the
maturity
challenges
that
we've
got
right
now.
E
Yeah
I've
been
working
with
miguel
on
the
new
version
for
the.net
stuff,
where
one
of
the
things
that
we're
trying
to
do
is
have
less
dependencies
on
open,
telemetry
and
more.
The
ability
for
individual
library
authors
to
just
include
it
a
little
bit
nicer.
So
the
users
can
say
I
want
to
use
entity
framework.
E
But
can
you
put
open
trace
open
telemetry
in
there?
For
me,
no
I'm
using
entity
framework,
I'm
also
using
open
telemetry
and
I
need
to
within
open
telemetry,
add
something
else
to
open
telemetry
to
make
it
do
this
thing
over
here
and
just
make
it
all
a
lot
more
joined
up.
So
it
just
feels
to
the
users
like
yeah
I'm.
I
want
to
turn
on
open
tracing
in
open
telemetry
in
in
entity
framework
in
http
client.
E
In
all
these
other
things,
and
we
will
be
there
soon
on.net,
but
talking
to
people
about
the
go
on
and
stuff
like
that,
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
little
bit
a
little
bit
harder.
D
Yeah
important
with
these
things
right,
it's
like
I
mean
I
was
in
that
call
earlier,
where
I
think
one
of
the
end
users
was
pointing
out
that
they
did
a
they
were,
comparing
what
they
got
from
hotel,
auto
instrumentation
to
what
they
were
getting
from
some
vendor
agent
and
the
end
result
was
just
not
good
enough
for
them.
So
I
wonder
if
there's
an
opportunity
to
do
some
sort
of
like
proactive
expectation
management
there.
D
A
I
think
that's
really
hard,
at
least
at
our
company
we
went
through.
It
was
pretty
significant
investment
in
looking
at
that
and
putting
out
documentation
that
says
our
vendor
product
compared
to
open
telemetry,
but
it
was
super
challenging
because
open
telemetry
is
advancing
so
quickly
and
our
our
sales
folks
are
like.
I
don't
want
this
to
go
out,
because
competitors
are
going
to
use
it
against
us
right
and
so
there's
definitely
still
that
challenge
and
the
community
themselves,
like.
A
I
don't
know
how
the
community
could
come
together
to
look
at
vendor
solutions
and
do
a
compare
and
contrast.
A
But
there
are
certainly
a
number
of
product
managers
in
the
the
community,
and
maybe
that's
a
good
conversation
to
start
is
what
what
might
the
community
do
from
a
different
lens,
and
is
it
the
right
priority
to
focus
on
right
now
from
a
end
user
perspective,
because
it
is
hard,
but
hopefully
it's
not
that
hard,
and
I
would
love
our
maintainers
to
be
able
to
focus
once
once
we
reach
stability
with
logs
and
semantic
conventions
focused
on
installation
and
configuration
ease
of
simplicity,
of
open
telemetry.
That's
my
personal
opinion,
so
yeah.
E
Semantic
conventions
like
now
conventions
need
to
be
stable,
because
then
we
can
have
auto
instrumentations
that
are
stable,
but
I
don't
know
how
we
get
that
over.
We've
discussed
it
and
again
when
it
come
because
we
we
need
the
semantic
conventions
to
be
stable,
but
nobody
seems
to
want
to
make
them
stable
or
take
ownership
and
grab
it
by
the
horns
and
just
go.
Let's.
Let's
all
talk
about
this
and
make
it
stable.
A
I
thought
they
had.
I
just
started
out
a
new
working
group
for
symantec
conventions
like
within
the
last
six
weeks.
I
think
I
heard
something
about
it.
Maybe
it
was
just
like
something
I
dreamed
about
of
like
oh,
wouldn't
this
be
nice,
I
I
will
have
to
look,
but
no,
I
agree
like
I.
I
heard
a
a
couple
of
a
little
bit
more
worrisome,
end
users
that
were
our
discussing
just
open,
telemetry
with
and
semantic
conventions,
was
holding
them
back
from
adopting
the
project
and
they're
like
that.
A
That's
the
core
thing
that
they
don't
want
to
have
to
rewrite,
but
it's
a
it's
a
very,
very
tricky
problem
and
the
expertise
to
have
confidence
in
stabilizing
a
semantic
convention.
A
It
goes
a
little
bit
beyond
what
most
of
the
folks
in
the
project
like
at
least
the
folks
that
work
for
me,
they're,
like
I
don't
feel
like
I've,
got
the
expertise
to
claim
that
this
is
the
right
semantic
convention,
format
independently
and
so.
E
A
So
yeah
all
right.
Well,
we
I
would,
I
am
happy
to
chat,
but
I'm
imagining
if
there's
anyone
who's
watching
our
youtube
right
now,
it's
like
y'all
are
just
not
on
topic.
A
And
call
it
here,
but
if
we
want
to
get
back
together
since
we
have
10
whole
minutes,
we
can
we
can
do
that.
But
I'm.
A
Absolutely
thanks:
everyone
for
showing
up
and
cj
it
was
nice
to
meet.
You
join
np
users
and
cncf
slack.
That's
where
we
kind
of
hang
out
sorry
nope.
That
is
the
wrong.
What
is
it
called?
It's
an
user.