Open Telemetry Uncategorized, 13 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 2022-10-13 meeting

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OpenTelemetry Prometheus WG

A

B

Hey, excuse me: hey Libby, hey.

B

Okay, my headphones are not quite working yet.

C

I could hear you.

C

Hey Morgan, hey, okay! Well then, what camera do you have? Is that quality, video.

D

My wife's uh Canon EOS R5, that's a mirrorless camera for big prime lens.

C

Nice, and and making good use of it as your webcam yeah.

D

I mean it's not doing anything else right now,.

B

Well, um hopefully, y'all can hear me as my headphones. Yes,.

D

B

um I started a very quick agenda, but I think it would be good to spend the next minute or two to go over what we would like to chat about in the agenda. I'm gonna throw it over into the Zoom chat, so you can easily jump over there and then we will commence.

B

And your name is hotel in practice.

A

Going back to that account, even when I switch accounts, I, don't think Zoom that counts. Switching works very well.

B

um Libby I think this is the document. That's in the invite it's possible that you copied an older invite to your personal calendar and those don't get updated when the community calendar gets updated. Awesome learned that the hard way for so many times I show up to meetings.

C

I I updated it on the um in the community um repo, so I've been paying attention to that. That's all.

D

Yeah there's, um if you're white, you can subscribe to the hotel community calendar either by joining a Google group that sends you invites or to subscribing. So it shows up as a like an alternate calendar. Those.

C

Ones will stay up to six a lot, a lot of invites. Yes,.

D

D

Some sigs went and created their own little Google Groups, just for their sake that people could subscribe to. We could do that. I, don't want to be the organizer of all of those because it'd be like 30 of them.

C

B

D

B

Cup might be something that's potentially worthwhile for the end user events, because navigating the community calendar for end users, who are not quite familiar with um I've gotten a lot of feedback they're like which one do I go to and I've tried to like I colored, these um event ones a little bit differently for them, but that's a we should put that on a sometime. Maybe we should consider uh consider that so.

A

Cool yeah I think affect either a second calendar or a better way to navigate the calendar would be in order. um Also like the advice to subscribe to the open. Telemetry calendar probably worked when we had about five groups and is now terrible. Like you subscribe to the open Telemetry calendar and your inbox is immediately buried under three pages of craft.

D

If someone has a more scalable way like that, the reason I'm, the only reason it hasn't like I- don't want to be the manager of all the sub calendars myself. No.

A

That makes sense, but but if you.

D

Want to create a Google group that, like only is subscribed to a few like classes of events like please, feel free and link to it on the community uh group on the community GitHub page yeah,.

A

I, don't know what the best scalable solution is for this. Maybe this is something we can look into after cubecon yeah.

B

Awesome yeah um free visit topic.

A

Okay, cool it has Revisited after a great plan. Yes,.

B

Are there any other items to add to the agenda? Are we jump in.

D

We can go ahead.

B

Okay, cool uh the governance committee election is next week.

D

Yes, I put that on just because uh the GC election is coming up and there was a voter roll that was automatically created based off of GitHub contributions, I'm guessing in this sig. There are many people who have made contributions to open Telemetry, but not on GitHub, um so I added a link there. If you want to vote and you first, you should check if you made the bar.

D

um That's you can see that in the link. There's a description of that.

D

If you are not on the list of automatically selected voters- and you want to vote- and you feel you've made a significant contribution, there's a form that you can access that allows you to vote you'll just be audited by by some people and make sure that you're, you know actually do show up to things and do some work uh and then you'll be able to vote, and so I thought for this sig in particular, it was worth reminding people that that path exists less of an issue in like the language cigs and things were it's all developers, cranking away.

A

D

Github yeah yeah.

B

Kyle Morgan, um unfortunately, there's not a ton of people showing up here today.

D

B

But uh I will relay that message in our um our cncf slack channel that we have a few more participants: yeah cool, um uh okay. So next item is a survey, change request um and so Severin joined our end user research Channel and made a couple of requests for additions to the community survey um and I wanted to chat about them.

B

Okay, um so the first one is a question about where open Telemetry is deployed, so is it deployed in prod or pre-prod or other environments? I. Think that's a reasonable question to ask one of the just general things is we want to try to keep the survey short and sweet, and so I was curious about people's thoughts, about the value of understanding where open Telemetry is deployed for people who are taking the survey.

C

I think, knowing whether.

B

It's deployed in prod or.

C

Not adds value because it tells us it hints at the maturity of the product and also um where, in the the whatever that Garden or hype cycle wave thing is, um our community is at whether they're you know just thinking about it versus you know, actually putting putting their foot to the floor.

C

um I don't know that it's as interesting to know any of the other environments, but that's my two cents.

A

Yeah I would tend to agree with Libby unless we've got a really strong reason to know about the other environments like somebody is specifically working on Hotel per se test or whatever, which I don't think is the case. I, don't think, there's a good reason to collect that data, and the survey is already long, but I think prod is important, because lots of folks are out there kind of just dog fooding things.

B

So perhaps a question like uh just a binary is your open Telemetry deployment in prod.

A

Yeah I mean, if you think some people might want to express. You can always add yes, no or say more. If you wanna work.

B

D

Oh sorry, I was just saying like or or just asked, if you're using it on Production, Services and infrastructure like but but fundamentally sure yeah, that's the question I would go with. We.

C

Could even expand on that a little bit and have oh, you know different answer options like it's currently employed. We plan to deploy, have it in prod in the next year or so we're thinking about it, hey what type of telemetry.

B

I I'm definitely asked these questions of customers um and I did have that uh timeline. Horizon was one of the uh the questions about. When do they anticipate um going to prod with their open, Telemetry uh experimentation um and I found that, like everybody says like now, but in reality they don't actually uh deploy it now right yeah, and so it's been very, very unchallenging to to leave the signal around asking about plans because plans are um at least in the customer base that I watch uh well-intentioned, but not necessarily executed.

D

It's like it's like asking them. When do you plan to like overhaul your CID CD systems or something like uh really soon it'll be really good, really efficient, then of course yeah yeah? It happens eventually, but but not necessarily when people thought it would.

C

Yeah I guess it gives you a sense of their intention like how how much they're thinking about it. You know yes, whether or not you say okay, that means 20 of the population actually will have it in production in the next year, but they're thinking about it. It's.

D

C

On their backlog,.

D

It's it's certainly going to be moral I think than we anticipate like I come from somewhat biased view, because it Splunk our customers, I mean for observability, must use open telemetries. It's the only way they can get data in.

A

D

In um in recent sales conversations that I've been engaged with like like starting, maybe six months ago, it shifted from people saying like oh open symmetry that sounds neat like like these are not actual customers, but prospects they'd, be like. Oh, you know, we've heard of it. We plan to use it at some point, um we're now I'm getting more and more of like large firms.

D

They're like oh yeah, we already use it like I want to pipe this data to you like, like we already have a deployed, it's functional like I, have otlp can I, send it to you and that's definitely starting to pick up so I'm, anticipating we will find more than we expect, which is pretty exciting.

B

Yeah we've got the opposite, because we've got very strong existing process- yes, of course, yeah and watching that migration has been really fascinating. Yeah and yeah, it's I believe in open Telemetry, yes, um okay, so let us uh final decision on this question form I, am writing down thoughts. I think we could take in a bunch of different places, but I do want to get it into the survey um so that it will go out for kubecon, North America.

B

Do we want to try to put a Time Horizon if you're not using open Telemetry in production right now? When do you anticipate moving to production, I, don't know it's hard.

D

I I think the answers will not necessarily be useful, feel free, but but I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the answers, even if we, even if we put it in I'd,.

C

Only add that in if it was part of the same question, I wouldn't separate it out into an additional, not a point.

B

Okay, so uh are using open Telemetry on production, uh infrastructure and services. As of the time you're taking the survey yeah.

C

B

So binary question which are super easy right. They check. Yes, they check. No uh we're gonna, hear you with the other and I like it, and also anytime that we provide free text. It needs a human to go back in and like classify those text, answers for um be to be able to use them, um which is okay, I, just I. Don't do that super commonly, but is a requirement to uh graphically show up answers so that people are like well I'm, gonna, open till the question is: are you an open, Telemetry contributor?

B

Yes or no, and then some people are like well, I've only made one contribution and I'm like. Thank you. That's a yes right, um but you have to like change them. Yeah totally.

A

Reasonable I was just thinking of a compromise between we don't collect that information, and- and we, like you know like I, was like well other is simple and then they can tell us if they feel moved. But it's not simple for us clearly, but yeah.

B

Okay, um yeah I'm thinking about taking out that question of like our other contributor, because we've had now two people out of 75.

B

uh Tell me a story which is awesome and I love it and also um potentially affects the nomininity. Because of their linking to PRS that they've made. Then people could figure out who they are and I want to try to keep a nomininity available um to to users.

B

Okay. So the second request for change was the amount of open Telemetry deployed and, if y'all have not followed. This along I will just copy this link into the zoom chat.

B

If you want to jump into it, and so there was a bit of a debate about how what is the right way to ask about how big their open, Telemetry deployment is, um and, in my personal opinion, asking somebody quantitative data like that: doesn't yield insights because we don't have enough context about their their overall deployment and so I like it in terms of ratios of like out of all of your observability deployment.

B

What percentage of it is open Telemetry, but it also doesn't necessarily get to to the goal of how much open Telemetry is out there. I would love to be able to answer that question, um and so the last proposal was um what is the total amount of data egress from open Telemetry to a back-end destination?

B

We don't know if people are going to know the answer to that, but it seems like that would be the the compromise on that question of how big is otel and kind of removing the well. This is a very small company that doesn't have a lot of egress versus. This is a big company that has terabytes of egress a day I.

C

B

Get your thoughts.

D

I think that's probably the best way to like, like share this Cliff right, you're, looking for different ways to qualify, how much Hotel anyone's using I mean what yeah to me there's fundamentally two ways right: it's like what percentage of your services and infra are covered by hotel and the other is what is the volume of data which is the one you you touched on.

D

um Volume and data is probably one that people can answer more easily like if you're in a significantly large, if you're in a sufficiently large organization and you're, not literally the CTO or something you're, not necessarily going to know what percentage of your Fleet is using Hotel versus what percent is not, uh but you will know the volume of data that being said. Percentage of Fleet is probably the more tangible result uh like if I was asking someone who had unlimited knowledge about an org, that's probably what I would focus on because I don't know.

D

Maybe they just have a few surfaces that write a bunch of logs and they say I've got eight terabytes an hour, and that sounds really big. But you know the the volume of data might be very different between different types of organizations.

C

I think you're, right and I think even if they don't know across their organization like how big their Fleet is and what percentage of the entire fleet has I tell, they will know for their area and I think that's still indicative of you know at least for their team or group or business unit.

C

um What percentage is covered by otil I think that's still a useful metric or useful data point.

D

So maybe we focus more on that one then, because I I do think that one's more discussable and presentable and and is a stronger I mean if we are are looking for a metric for success of the project.

D

um That's probably the one I would rely on right, not like so many petabytes per minute are created around the world by otel uh but like it is across the fleet of you know, 80 percent used across the fleet of 5 000 companies, or something like that.

B

Foreign I, like this uh estimated open, Telemetry.

D

B

D

Plus logs are not logs, are still experimental in hotel and logs will generate a huge data volume. Data volume in terms of metrics and traces is I, mean they're, strongly types or binary format right, it's relatively small, which is good, uh but uh when we compare it to anything of logs, it's going to seem puny. Mm-Hmm.

B

um Okay, so I, like the estimate of percentage of open Telemetry coverage, I think we should make it like a selectable in maybe about five choices um and so I'm thinking about like do. We just do them in 20 minutes, 0 to 2020 to 40 40 to 60.

D

B

D

May this is worth discussing whether we want to separate out uh infrastructure and services separately, um because there might be some some people who are just using the collector and capturing like host metrics and things, but not necessarily doing a lot of service instrumentation, and there might also be probably more of the opposite, because hotel has historically had better tracing support where people are capturing, distributed traces but maybe they're using statsd or some other solution to capture infrastructure, metrics infrastructure data.

D

So it might be worth breaking those apart. So we can see where we are. Where we're successful.

B

Are there any additional categories besides services and infrastructure, eventually.

D

There would be client Telemetry, but.

B

D

Basically, no I mean it doesn't really exist yet.

B

A couple of people have there's a question of like what are you using and a couple people have said: I'm using client-side and I'm. Like tell me more yeah.

D

Because it's not really spec I mean I'm curious, who that would be I mean I, wouldn't be shock me if a few of our customers went and just set that on surveys, because we bundled that in with our hotel distribution, of course, once otil has it, we will rip that stuff out um our stuff out, but um that otherwise I guess the web.

D

We have supported web front end not supported, like there's been capability for web front end monitoring there for a long time, just not expect and and formalized so that might be what they're referring to interesting, I feel free to add. It.

B

Yeah I'm thinking, Services infrastructure, client side.

D

B

Because I feel like client-side is a very uh when that comes to open. Telemetry will be a big driver of adoption agreed.

D

B

So I'm super excited. Yes, oh man, okay, so got those two questions. I'm gonna type them up and throw them in a soccer channel um before I put them in there for any last minute feedback, but I think those are good changes and I. Think I'm going to take away the option to say other if you're, an open, Telemetry contributor um and just like make that a little bit more uh binary and answer any other changes we want to make. We can totally make changes. uh Changes.

B

I've done is I've added profiling and I've added client-side uh to signals that you could potentially select.

C

um I haven't seen a survey question, but do we have anything about? Have you contributed to open telemetry? We did yes.

B

uh Yeah very simple question like I: don't think I've got it at hand, um uh so many things I can click. Okay, so I made this uh Tableau dashboard and it's ugly and I made a better one, but I haven't published it yet.

B

um But one of the cool things is, you can click into the picture which hyperlinks into the survey, but it's not loading on my screen. So I guess that's super slow.

B

I'm gonna make something better I'm having a lot of fun, just randomly making uh open telemetry, Tableau stuff uh and if you're, particularly oh, oh interested I have to do tablet on my desktop, which is behind my laptop.

B

um But there is a I showed up to the maintainers meeting this week um and gave an update based on the survey results so far and put in a deck, um so maintainer meeting notes I put the deck in there. So, if you want, you can go and just see, I threw some high level things and try to speak really quickly and went through um that just to let them know that it's out there and to try to encourage maintainers to promote the survey.

B

Also so more data more better, um and so this in the zoom chat is the small presentation is so beautiful uh that I put together just to talk through the results so far. Okay, that is everything about survey, change, requests before I move to the next topic. We're going to move to the next topic: yeah, okay, excellent October, bring your own customer interview, ran I, believe you are leading this one.

A

um I am um the answer is I have had so much chaos going on. I was going to reach out to him about a day, and then we didn't settle whether we were moving away from meeting during our meeting time.

A

So the answer is I need to settle that and then I can reach out to him and say: do you still want it? When can you do this.

B

I know kubecon is in just two short weeks from now um and so I would imagine that.

A

Yeah they're UK based so they might not be cubecon attending. Having said that, like, we are all cute kind of ending and it feels like a lot of chaos, so maybe we should move it to November and not do an October one yeah.

C

There's a bunch of UK and I mean events also happening this time of year. So.

A

D

A

D

I prefer to push it out.

B

Okay, uh we can do that is.

B

Because he was doing random interviews at uh cubecon EU for that yeah.

D

So assume he's coming, but I I, don't know, I, don't know I.

B

D

B

Okay, I'll check with him.

C

um It sounds like that would be a good thing to continue doing in practice and maybe figure out. If any of us could do it or you know anyone else.

B

Yeah, it was a uh just an ad hoc thing walking around being like hey. Can we talk to you about open Telemetry? Can we talk to you about open, Telemetry I'm, getting a little bit of time set up, uh Morgan I'm, not sure if we have like a project room, do you know.

D

Like a permanent long-running one, no no.

A

B

I, don't know who does exist a couple of like I think at uh kubecon EU there was like you get the room for four hours. We.

D

Have that it's during the hotel, unplugged events annoying.

C

D

We're only going to use two hours of it uh and do like when there's the uh us and I were figuring this out when there's the sort of breakouts in the late afternoon. At the kubecon event, we're gonna do like a in-person maintainer sync at the hotel room, uh but the timing is very unfortunate.

D

um Henrik for his user interviews ended up just doing them in the atrium kubecon I mean the ones I've been to at least 10. They tend to have a lot of space for for for the conference, and so typically, you can just find a place to go and do these.

B

Reach out to henric and see if he is going to be attending, but I think it would be a great thing to show up and just like gather feedback and also please encourage people to take our survey.

B

B

Okay next item, so the diyoc is effectively pushed out until November when you're good with that. Okay.

B

If we can get people at kubecon cool, if not that's, okay, um all right now, kubecon North America review, so we've got the end user panel and I think recess found at least three end users who will be there physically in attendance?

B

I, don't know we're in a few are following along with.

A

B

A

um I am mostly letting Rhys manage that because, honestly, like I'm overwhelmed with the number of things that I have to manage related to that event, um but um I think she I think she's got three or four people. um If one of us can check with her later in the day, that would probably be good, but yeah.

B

Yeah she's uh traveling right now for a employer event um where she's trying to convince people to go to kubecon too, um but I I will check in with her um and so I think everything seems okay for the end user panel. um I, don't I, don't have any concerns, possibly at the beginning of the Q uh Hotel unplug day. We can be like hey we're having a user panel. Can we get a couple more people up here who are physically uh present and kind of build the panel on the Fly?

B

If we need to fill it out anymore uh for the booth I designed a little flyer thing, um I'm gonna make one edit to it, but I need some, but I'm not going to kubecon I need somebody to print it and take it to the project. Booth.

A

um I could potentially do that.

A

um I mean we have an office that I can go to and print things.

B

I was thinking about like mailing it in the mail like.

D

You want to print it just some like regular printer paper or a fancy.

B

Yeah, the printer paper is fine, just preferably in color, because we're not like the open, Telemetry colors going on um and I, don't know. I.

D

Would ask um ask Daniel dyla shark because he he lives in Detroit? Oh.

A

D

In person at dynatrace so like they have an officer, okay, I think it's like the second biggest office or something so like like he could easily pull that off. For you.

A

D

A

Is probably a much better option than me flying them from San Francisco yeah.

D

Because I was thinking like I, have a laser printer at home that I can print on and the toner's can be cheap but but yeah, then I'm gonna have to pack like 10 kilograms of paper into my bag, which I'd rather not have to do.

C

It's this image that you posted in slack, so yeah walking around, go hey, take our survey and they can just scan it off my home, all right, yeah.

B

Yeah, that's what we did um at kubeconne, um it's like scan from stuff by Morgan um and it worked out pretty well. We got the majority of the survey takers there, um but I just thought it would be nice because if we aren't necessarily in the booth, if we just have this like random sign up in the booth that people can be like. Oh what's that scan QR codes, all the.

C

Time yeah, especially if we have like a little thing of stickers or something like do the survey take a sticker. You know like home people uh a little bit accountable.

B

um Sorry, my husband heard me say cure and he likes QR codes. So he's like what are you talking about? um Okay, yeah I. Think that sounds good.

B

Is there anything else we need to discuss for kubecon n, a h.

A

I, don't think so, but my head is like completely in that open Telemetry day. So oh.

C

A week are we having like um an open telemetry maintainers contributors get together, or is that pretty much? What the community unconference day is for the happy hour for that I guess.

B

I think Morgan would have been the perfect person to ask for that. um There was a little reception at open source Summit, but I don't I.

C

Don't know what the I think that was tied to attending it all day, yeah yeah.

C

I think that's where I met you in person for the first time sure yes,.

C

You can remember that far back, it feels like it was a year ago.

B

Really to do group, no, it does. It feels like a different lifetime for sure time.

A

Is really strange in covert and um I will add this to the bottom, but Martin just asked me about the Amia group.

A

Yes, is it on for Tuesday.

B

Next Tuesday yeah um as far.

A

As I know, it is more hosting this time, so I think he wants to I think we need to promote it. Basically, yeah.

B

Oh, that's a good point. uh I I reached out.

A

B

I asked Michael to put it into the Monday Ollie news um for next week. So if people read it on Monday, maybe they'll show up on Tuesday.

A

um Yeah I would also post it in the slack um what else um I think? Actually, if you go further down in our meeting, notes like to the meeting in September, I, actually I think I actually added the promotion plan that I use.

B

B

uh Cncf to tweet.

A

About it, um yes, so to get cncf to tweet about it. What you need to do is post in #social media in the cncf channel. The Tweet needs to be from an individual contributor or the project account. It can't be from your corporate account. Do you have Twitter shower or does Reese nope nope, okay, Martin too.

B

B

Austin also has the uh Hotel Twitter account.

A

A

A

Okay, okay, yeah, so okay, yeah, so I'm, going down to my list of things that I usually do um typically I'll promote on our company's channels. I know that may not be as easy for you to do, but you can certainly ask Grace, she might say yes, um oh promote within my own company Slack, um which you know I'm, not sure that you know does New Relic even have that much staff in Europe. That may not be.

B

uh We should promote the EU and the emea or sorry Amia and emea and the America group, the America groups on Thursday, so we can promote them both at the same time,.

A

But yeah, like your company slack or your company's Community, um you cut the slack as well as the message board um and then I I agree that we should promote them at the same time. When is the American one Thursday?

A

Oh boy, Whoa, okay, great! um You know what I don't mind promoting this, because I need to go through my promotion plan for hotel unplugged as well so I don't mind doing this, although um getting some help in the form of like. Did you actually do? The thing is helpful um because I'm losing my mind a little trying to like make sure that we have enough registrants for unplugged, okay,.

B

And I'll I'll get that in the New Relic Community slack with resource help, um yeah and then Rin. Are you gonna talk to cncf Twitter Austin's Hotel project, Twitter yeah.

A

I just asked um yeah I just asked Martin to tweet about it and once he does, I can have cncf retweet. Oh because Martin has the uh Martin. Has a personal product. Martin is trying to grow his influence on his personal Twitter. I. Didn't ask him to tweet about the Amera one, though so.

B

um Well, he hasn't done it yet just add both of it of end user discretion. Groups are happy next week, then I should follow up. uh I, think I found someone who's willing to host an apj, Discussion Group, but I need to follow up with them and see if they're actually going to do that, they're not very involved in the open Telemetry project as the only issue. So if we know of more community members who are in the uh apj region.

B

A

Okay, yeah and then let's see we can do do we want to do a I. Don't want to do the banner because I want to leave unplugged in the banner yep um I. Don't I, don't think that getting Folks at the end user working group is nearly as important as driving folks to unplugged.

A

um We've done the calendar. We've done. Sorry. I have a list that I go through. We could do a blog post, just not in the banner I. Don't know what you think of whether that's helpful.

B

um Yeah I'll skip the blog post for this time. I still have it in my backlog, to write and overall uh end user blog post about all of the stuff, including putting themselves in the adopters file.

A

Yeah and then there's a couple of other places like the observability and monitoring slack that I, usually post and then you know, um there's also otel social, which Libby started, which allows us to like, say: hey. Can you please retweet this two people in the community.

B

Slack events Channel.

A

um No I, don't we don't know yeah I, usually I, actually don't always post that one in events I do post the Meetup, but we can post that one again.

C

um Oh, the conferences, Channel no.

A

No there's one there's an advanced one as.

C

A

um But God there's a conference is one okay, good job, yeah I'll put it in here. Let me put.

C

A

Plugged into the conferences, one oh.

C

You do it then.

A

Cool, oh thank you. Oh you're, welcome to no no I was just doing.

C

It like both hit return at the same time and there's bam two posts.

A

Yes, I'm learning about this foreign.

A

Copying and pasting your post, your post, was great, so.

C

No I read your post. It was like when I think quite alike,.

A

You know like why why do I need to write new copy for this? No all.

C

The greatest people like copy others why? Why invent there's only so many ways you can say the same five words right right.

A

B

Okay, um let's see, is there anything else for us to discuss.

A

um Let's see did we get all the topics?

A

um Let me scroll back up in my.

A

Yeah I think we got all the topics other than the Amia group.

B

Me a group is on for sure.

B

Cool um is there anything else we want to talk about or we can wrap up early today.

A

um I'm open to wrapping up early unless people want to talk, I mean you talk about it unplugged or something, and do people have things that they want to use the time. Oh Libby, you should ask sure about the breakouts. Maybe Char has more creative ideas than me.

C

We met before this um Sharon and I met before this, to try and plan the breakouts for Community Day, hotel, unplugged um and we're thinking about well, for the people in person will break out into groups. It's kind of somewhat constrained by the logistics like how how much the venue can change the setup. How quickly is there additional rooms, Etc so leaving that aside, but for online? How do we do that best?

C

um Do we use chat, so they each have a slack Channel, um but then how do we nurture the discussion? Do we need to have a facilitator in each? Is it better to add video like Zoom or whatever right, but then we need to make it accessible, so we'll need a another translate. What's the word yeah captioning caption has yes um and we're trying to think through that, because yeah, we really want to make the online experience good.

C

You know, I, don't think you can ever say it's the same as in person, but good seems like a reasonable bar.

B

Yeah I wonder if we try to just keep I know we're gonna like uh try to stream like the maintainers panel and the end user panel, but maybe we for the breakout sessions. We keep it. The people who are in person and then have a separate breakout experience for yeah.

A

I think it needs to be separate. I, don't think we can provide any sort of Equitable experience.

C

Yeah, so if we do the writing thing- and there are three topics that are really popular, do we do the three topics in person and then have three virtual breakout rooms so you're in effect doubling up.

A

I feel that doubling up is fine.

A

um We could also just ask what's popular among the virtual attendees, and you know maybe they're gonna say something like participating in open Telemetry from all over the world or.

B

Yeah I I think we can have um essentially voting they've got zoom capabilities to do voting to vote on topics and maybe their the zoom audience will have a little bit of a different interest.

C

But they're not using streaming are we.

A

Yeah, so it's something um Austin and I have an interest in the breakouts being. um How do I say this um text first rather than Zoom? First, for a couple of reasons, um some people are going to be in time zones that aren't gonna support them, participating in real time or like with voice.

A

Maybe they'll get up in the middle of the night, but not, and so we want people to be able to have sort of a long tail of participation throughout the day like if they're outside of the time zone like it would be good to have threads in GitHub or in slack that people can continue to participate in and then also that, like builds momentum for people to sort of continue on the topic after the event like. If there's GitHub issues already created, then people can submit um further PR's to those issues or have further discussion.

A

That kind of thing um and I think the other reason is like just making sure that it's an equitable experience in terms of captioning and language and all of that stuff and I guess open to hearing like an argument, but I think that thinking that Austin and I have is that it should be text first. That should be the primary thing and we can give out a casual Zoom that people can participate in. But we want folks to like note things down.

C

Is there a matter of saying you know, part of how we're holding this discussion is? There needs to be a scribe and they take responsibility for not just noting things down, but also making sure issues are created in GitHub, so yeah includes things. Would that meet that?

C

Well still, I I know it sounds like I'm fixated on Zoom, which I don't mean to be I'm, just thinking about whether you're going to get given that it'll be what 45 minutes, whether you'll get enough discussion in chat and people will feel that they can participate, because it's a single threaded chat experience um whether you're actually going to get enough valuable discussion happening or not.

C

That's that's where my concern comes from I guess that.

A

Makes reasonable sense, I think having a scribe is a decent solution. um I think we could I think in in person we're assuming that we'll have like two different breakout hours.

A

We do have two hours, that's what we've scheduled for in person, but we could also, if you think more time is necessary because it'll be more text focused. The virtual breakouts could run two hours.

A

That would also allow people to like drop in and out if they had meetings or whatever.

A

um Not that that's a must just a like a point that we could yeah.

C

That's true, you could, you know they could all run in parallel and you could switch between them. You don't have the same constraints that you do for physical.

A

Yes, exactly so you can go to any of the breakouts, you can switch between them. We can have threads and channels for them.

A

C

Yeah, did you go to the breakouts any of the breakouts at um Hotel day in Austin? Yes,.

B

I did, um and it was helpful to have someone who is kind of leading the discussion.

C

And and the Scribe I think too yeah.

C

So then the constraint becomes number of facilitators more than anything else.

A

Right, um so should we just go out in like the open, Telemetry Channel and ask for volunteers.

B

I feel like you can probably find a volunteer day of yeah. um Somebody like.

C

B

C

I think is sorry, um no provide guidance right and have that already there. So, okay, you volunteered here, are the things you need to make sure you do like repeat questions and make sure describe. Is writing things down and blah blah blah, and then you know they're already that way. They're set up for Success day off, but we don't need to worry about soliciting them ahead of time.

A

Yes, that's a good idea, I think like preparing a document that says this is how the breakouts will run.

A

um The two things I want to avoid are a it's totally chaotic and like it doesn't make any sense to people how we're running it or be like all of the organizing committee is having to be in slack the whole time.

C

Yeah we will need at least one, if not two people in slack during the morning, the whole time to make sure questions from online get represented that if they can't hear that it's passed on, you know all of that sort of thing to basically represent the the people remote yeah.

A

I, think, being in slack in the morning, is a little bit different than having to be in slack during the production. Sure.

C

Completely agree.

C

Foreign with facilitators, we're.

A

Making progress- hey we're gonna, get this we're gonna nail this CR.

B

Ap, it's gonna be a good experience. I'm I know it's a lot of work, a lot of work going on events, but I think it's gonna be so good for the community to have a space to come together and.

A

I know these virtual breakouts are frustrating, but I think it's gonna be good like because it really was like I was a virtual attendee last time, and that was really a shitty experience. So I think, like people are going to appreciate that we did anything, because we didn't last time.

A

Like even if it's a little chaotic or it doesn't turn out to be the perfect thing, I think people will be glad to be included.

B

B

B

Awesome anything else for us, no, not.

A

Really all right, hey well,.

B

I will see you all on slack. Thank you.

C

Or you're not coming to kubecon nope I.

B

Will not be there yep.

C

A

You in slack then yeah, though yeah.

B

All right, bye.