Open Telemetry Uncategorized, 27 Sep 2022

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From YouTube: 2022-09-27 meeting

Description

Instrumentation: Messaging

A

Hey guys good morning.

B

Good morning good morning, um I'm not sure if you saw Martin's thing on slack uh he's probably yeah.

B

A

Looks like Martin's not going to be able to join us. Let's give it a couple of minutes for Santos and we'll get started.

A

Hey Santosh running foreign.

A

It's not just, can you hear us.

C

We I can hear you yeah, okay, cool.

A

I assume I, don't know if you guys can hear me, my zoom just went uh that's I, don't know. What's going on? Okay, there you go, you guys see my screen right.

B

A

As usual, the bar is hidden and what makes going on there? Okay, there. You go all right.

B

Yeah next one down yeah.

A

Start a second, the.

B

27Th of today on the 28th 28th is tomorrow, Martin added that, because he wasn't going to be in.

A

Oh got it yeah.

B

Okay, so if you yeah you.

A

Already put that put the name there perfect. Thank you.

B

A

I think I put that right. Yeah I always get confused. Yeah um I didn't write an agent I guess we could jump straight into the events and start going through these things. I don't know if it's gonna take it the whole hour.

A

um So let's look at the highlighted ones: let's go from there um I believe um you know we did chat about it a little bit uh last time, but I don't think we finalized on this wanted to go through that um awss rum event, type and Cisco has uh event type, and we have a name um and I believe in open Elementary there's also a component or you know, uh I'm not super familiar with this uh is that an equivalent of a name of the event is that correct, I believe what's going to go here is the page view would probably be here.

A

B

Currently component is more like what the instrumentation Library did. It.

A

Got it I see so that doesn't seem like it's a it's a right thing right, it's more like a context or whatever yeah. Okay, so I, don't think that's comparable!

A

Are there any other fields in open Telemetry that um that we can use per name, or should it be a new uh field that we should um well spans have a name, but if it's not going as a span, if it's going as a separate event right, a log event.

A

I think yeah: let's, let's talk about mechanics of how to send it uh later. um Do we want that or not I guess is the yeah yeah you're right um currently open Telemetry is sending it as a span span, has a name so um yeah um should we put them for span name here.

A

Do we have anything I, don't know? Why remember to capture it and a little bit help here, so it should have been here right uh span. Name then, uh should have been a field. That's plant captures.

C

So um do we know what is um typically used to identify spans um in the back ends.

B

I I think it's the name field.

C

Okay, so then, um then the name field um it.

B

Should not change.

B

No I would say we should keep it the same.

C

Yeah yeah, what I meant is. uh It is currently not part of the semantic conventions, so um just we we can use it, but keep that in mind that it's not going to be in the semantic conventions like, unlike the um even the event name, may not be in the 70 convention.

A

So I think we talked about uh version or something like that um where we were going to get it from the service version. So one of these things yeah. So this is enzymatic convention. We can use it, as is okay, right, I I think that's what you're going for right, um sometimes yeah, okay, so yeah for for this for event, type, even names.

C

No, so so there are two signals right: Ram I think one is an event. One is a span. um Could.

A

Be so we could end up sending um the hotel information you know as as a span event or as a log yeah.

C

Correct, okay, so so when, when I have put event type for app Dynamics there, um that was uh in our current product, everything is an event and therefore there's an even type correct.

A

So maybe we can just put some examples here on what these you know what values could be.

C

I think, in our case they are a base page Ajax, iframe.

A

Okay, so this this actually makes sense. So for us um uh name is you know basically that uh what I explained.

A

um No correctly, if I'm wrong, yeah.

B

So so Alan anime is probably equivalent to the events.name, which is not event.type, I. Think.

A

Correct this one right, ms.web.phd, that kind of stuff is what goes in there: okay,.

B

That's what we have today: yeah yeah Patriot performance and stuff yep.

A

All right, um so that's that um no AWS Representatives but I believe that's what this it's a room event type um so component, probably is not uh that right component is going to be. You know, whichever component produced it.

B

It's more like span name differently.

A

Okay, so let me first move this thing over here. We've talked about it later. um Question is if this is a span name, let's just try and put um let's try and put some examples here so I believe spend name is um the okay. uh Another item. Can somebody give me example on what values could go there that'll help decide if it's the same field or not.

B

Yeah right name like it's the get and then the source is the default yeah, but it will definitely be better, but this also for, like event type and for document load. This is document load icing.

A

B

We could technically.

A

Use our okay, so question right: uh we were talking about uh creating a page view event and potentially not potentially, and we I think we decided on a page load span, also a corresponding span. That's going to talk about um the time, and you know typical spend time, and uh you know how much time it took the length and what else, what not and correlation stuff. uh What would we call that that page load span would have whatever value goes in here right or will it will it be page load span?

A

I, don't want this and that to look the same it'd be confusing. They need to be differentiated right if we go with the span name um to to capture this.

B

Is the span for this tab anyway?.

A

We wouldn't have spent a span for this sent a span for this anyway. That's a good point. Okay, all right! So we'll just um leave it like that. So I think that that kind of makes sense. um Any um the suggestions, I think even type seems uh reasonable. You know, uh runway.type is something that they're using type and then you know for us name seems kind of pretty uh generic um I'm gonna, give it the event type any other suggestions on what we should call it.

C

It will be span name right in in hotel, um it will be for spans, it will be a span name.

B

A

For this this event, most likely it's going to go as a log. Sometimes there is no spanning there.

C

C

A

The mechanism that we use for this is most likely going to be a log right, or are you thinking it could be.

C

In that case, it would.

A

C

Event.Name correct.

A

Okay, I, don't know if you want to do, is that what we've been doing? uh I think you know we decided we'll. You know we'll talk about grouping later uh T to put a comment there uh we'll talk about grouping later, so maybe we could do event, name even type or event name, one of those things. Oh, where am I typing yeah to me, even type seems uh you know more type or even type seems um more relevant. That's my preference, but if you.

B

A

B

Just look at look at that code, um I'm, actually thinking, rather than it matching up with name. This actually might match up with page type which so it's just.

A

No page type is a different thing. In my opinion, uh um three pages can send a page view event. Each one will have a different value for a page type, yeah.

B

Yeah, we don't Define what they are just a string. It's a meta tag. You know what what are the types that they normally send.

A

um In a cart page, um you know shopping page things like that: okay, so the the ba.

B

Folks I decide the page. The.

A

Title of the page is different title of the page. Is um uh you know, yeah I, don't know AWS checkout page or something like that, but the AWS bi folks could decide I'm going to deem this 15 pages as a group of pages that is for um I, don't know a particular product or something like that in in Microsoft. They do that right there. They have a group of product pages for, say surface. They can call them surface um marketing Pages, something like that could be a page type. This.

C

Is optional right? The auto implementation won't be able to correct.

A

Exactly so we we are basically we're not onto page type. Just yet Nel's question was: is it really name that we should be putting in the the steel or is it page type I, don't believe page type is comparable. It's name. It's comparable.

B

um But of course saying uh based about 10 questions got where it's like iframe and stuff, like we I, don't think we have an equivalent for that, um and our name I think is equivalent to like the the event name, which is just gonna, be page view anyway.

A

um I see I thought uh this means the type of event that they're fighting right, they're fighting one for beat speech, fighting one for Ajax fighting one for the iframe loading and things. That's what I I interpreted as sometimes can you clarify each type of event right? That's what this, which type of event.

C

Yeah I think um um it's I, don't know, I think this exercise it's a little confusing, um because um we some of them we are going to send as logs some of them is going to send us events. So, for example, um the you put the event type um in that A3, but I thought um only for the page view we are going to send both as a span and uh an event, but for let's say Ajax we will only be sending spam.

A

Correct so when we talk about, Ajax will be in the fetch column, we'll be chatting about it, and you know whatever name. It is again. You know.

C

I think, in that case the span's name will will will say fetch, correct, yeah.

A

So I guess you know. uh Ideally what we need to do is this. Is uh you know we need to separate the the mechanism we're going to use to actually send that uh data uh to later? But sometimes we need to chat about this when we, because currently Splunk, is sending everything as spans. We are even talking about the actual span and stuff I believe yeah.

B

So in that case it sounds like this field is already defined as the event name because, like every event is going to have an event name and an event domain right. So.

C

B

um So yeah I, because I I don't think we have an equivalent.

A

I, don't think we have any equivalent. Can you clarify that? Are you saying Microsoft doesn't have any coolant or.

B

Of a separate event type, so our name field is event name.

A

Correct, that's what I believe is the event type.

A

B

A

A

Isn't that the event type or what else can can be in the type? That's why I tried putting examples here to see if what this.

B

Entire tab is the page view event right. So there is no separate field because we're already going to have the event net event, dot, name, fair,.

A

B

Yeah, it's just a static value, yeah yeah. This.

A

Doesn't mean exactly so, I was going to say here. We say this will be stamped with.

B

And in that case, yeah, the vet would the actual column A would be event.name because that's already defined in the specs okay.

A

And then it could be different if we end up somehow you know for never mind. uh If this goes in the log we decide that page view is going to go as a lot. Then you know we need to figure out what that actual payload's name is going to be installed.

B

So uh it's going as a log it'll be event.name with the value of page view and the event dot domain would be browser so well. Unless we can somehow make page view work for mobile and then we can say it's a different domain or something.

A

Okay sounds good yeah thanks for clarifying yeah early in the morning, I think everybody's, just taking a little bit down to.

B

It yeah now but for me, was um the same base, page or iframe, because that that would be a separate data point saying that this is a page view for something that was in a library, um but maybe that's like a separate Source type field: yeah yeah, okay,.

A

um So I would like to chat about uh this one's just really quick. I know we closed on this already um yeah I put in a couple of comments here, so is that you know I want people to kind of look at it. Make sure that that makes sense.

A

um The the device in the browser viewport is what we're capturing here correct. Is that a reasonable? uh You know a proper description.

B

uh Yeah, based on the names for GH and I yeah, I, guess pervy. uh Does that make sense to you, yep that makes sense to me. Okay,.

A

um Moving on here, um Peter had put a comment here. I cannot remember if we discussed this uh because it is still in yellow from last week um the version field. um This is the apps version right. um What is another example about this? Okay, so.

B

This is provided by the user, so, for example, it could be a version number. It could be the time step when the app was built. It could be the kitchen or anything like that. Okay,.

A

All right, uh I, don't believe we have anything equivalent to this right now. um The version of the applications yeah.

B

Sdk version is probably as close as we get, but that's just for us.

A

Okay, yeah, okay, so I'm I'm. Fine with that, um let's.

B

um That wouldn't change, though, would it be too across, so this is something potentially we'd have as a resource. What would Define as a result, yeah.

C

Yeah I think once a customer provides it, it will not change, but when the customer upgrades their application uh it will change, but.

B

That'll give me a separate page load right, the separate page, sorry so yeah, so that potentially could go as a resource rather than in the event yeah. uh Well, in the event payload, it could go with me. Yeah.

C

You you could make that a66 service.name right.

A

All right so which one is 66 this guy yeah.

B

A

Yeah, for this say again, centers service.

C

Dot version.

A

Oh I see not sure yeah all right um user session, ID I, don't believe we talked about it. um Yeah.

B

I think this is uh rum, um uh Ted's, uh ephemeral, resources, thing where we want to have the session ID sent as a resource, but we want to be able to change it um within the same section, which is why it's an ephemeral resource, it's something a little bit different, um so yeah I think we all want the session ID. It's just a case of we would prefer not to have to put it in the payload of this of the event and have it passed as a resource level.

B

So I think Ted's got his thermal resource spec in the.

B

My browser's not will be very happy foreign.

A

Okay, so I think uh you know this one's reasonably close I was looking at it last night, um so you know, let's just go through this exercise. Really quick um AWS is not here to kind of defend and talk about uh some of their things, but uh if you really think about look at it, um From aws's perspective. If we had captured all of aws's fields, um the things that they probably are missing would be missing from the hotel.

A

Events are interaction, page ID um and then oh, this one app monitor details, dot, ID app, monitor details.ready is this SDK version.

B

Well, probably, actually that might be SDK version.

A

B

Act monitor details, dot version might be the.

A

Oh yeah yeah, the ID might be um something I, don't know some js. You know open element to jsdk or something like that and then version yeah yeah. That sounds like it, but we really need um uh Quinn right is that uh his name um yeah Quinto help out um I've been kind of reaching out to him, and he said he was on vacation.

A

um He um would join when time permits or something like that, but if somebody else can also ping him, if anybody already has a relationship built with him, if you guys can ping um get him to spend some time on, this that'll be great. Who would that be.

C

Nobody no I, think it's uh it's. Okay, I think we can omit um this field and there are going to be always. You know new additions later, um so this could come as an addition.

A

Okay, so we ignore, uh ignore that, or you know um seems like there are some things that could be.

C

Look at the public documentation it, um but I'm not able to figure out what it refers to.

A

Yeah I think I I'm. Not this uh I think I've seen that before autism events, uh where's uh AWS AWS General put Trump events General. These views here.

B

So I get some application version there, so application monitor details. Obviously this application version is very 77. Yeah I.

A

See so we do have application version somewhere, yeah.

B

That would be the 66 yeah.

A

But they also have a version. That probably is the SDK version of them.

C

Yeah I think it refers to this Decay version. Yeah.

A

Okay, can somebody give me a link, so we can all look at the same link uh for AWS? Is it this guy? One of these things.

B

I was looking at the hotel rum, the original Word document you created.

A

Okay, so let me go back here to the rum event. Okay, oh I, see so they have this thing here: okay, okay, damn it I did ask them to dump everything and then I didn't use it. um Application version is app under the details. Version um SDK version was: what um do you have it here.

B

uh Okay now version they call the event schema version, so that's probably the version of the um the event spec. So that's like for us. We always say it's common schema for.

A

I see so, would that be part of you know? Should we do that as part of the um the event at all I guess we never talked about it.

B

um This gets brought up a lot with a whole bunch of other things, and tiguing keeps pushing back saying. Well, the lack of aversion means it is version one. So we could do the same thing, um but.

A

Sorry lack of version mint version one, but then how do we talk about other words.

B

Exactly so, it keeps getting pushed down the road in terms of like well in the future. How do we identify the version, then.

A

Okay, let me first get uh add one of the details that version into 56. yeah this one here right: okay, so let's do that um and then that I, uh the other one I moved it over. um Okay,.

B

And interesting metadata looks like our custom data fields, cut.

A

It okay, this version is um whatever okay, all right, so I guess we can uh Escape AWS uh for now, um you know when uh Quinn joins, he can come and chat about other other fields and stuff. uh This is this exercise, even if they are not presented represent, but also help. uh You know us can I get inspired um about hey. We need to track those things or whatever. That's that's the reason why I like to look at everybody's foreign to.

A

A

Centers, these are your events, basically that are unmapped right.

A

C

A

Two of them yeah.

C

Yeah, so the parent once um yeah we will need they are applicable to let's say Ajax calls or the iframe.

A

Oh I see so if the I was going to ask what is the difference between page referral and parent page URL that that makes sense, so parent page is really if this this is only for iframes, essentially right.

C

And and Ajax calls the Fetch and xhr.

A

But then this is not a. This is the page view is never going to be fired for an xhr, so it.

C

Doesn't matter okay yeah, then it is uh for uh only.

A

For iframes, so I guess the context is only iframes. So question is you you want to fire a page view for an iframe. You would want to know who the parent is yeah, so you can figure out. You know where the heck does iframe showed up. That's. That seems like a legit case.

A

um I, don't believe uh you know we have page views, firing for iframes I, believe or would that would page reference, be the thing um Nev do you know.

B

um No, the linking back to the our frame is non-standard across browsers, so um yeah I. Don't think we have anything for that, because the fact that the iframe has to be completely instrumented with its its own instance so that doesn't share the namespace oh interesting, and that you know you can then send messages between hosting frames.

A

And stuff yeah.

B

A

The iframe stamped with some metadata, yeah I, guess question back to Santosh. Do you know where you put this value from uh centers? If.

B

Diaphragms are from same domain. They can easily access the parent variables yeah, which I assume it's limited to only this use case.

C

Yeah I, don't know a lot about this Ram, but I think um yeah I think like if the customers will have to um instrument the iframes separately. It's similar to the you know the parent page, and then that will access the you know, I think I I, don't know. Maybe even a top or some variable can provide you. The the parent page yeah.

A

It's also going to be available not available all the time and stuff, so not all iframes, so I guess if we Define it here in page view, it's almost an optional field. It's not it's most likely mostly going to be empty because 10 pages- and this will only be populated for iframes. Even then it will be populated only if the iframe and the parent page are the same domain. Otherwise they have to you know, jump through a bunch of Hoops to get that value and things yeah.

B

Some mechanism, like a meta tag or something yeah, also.

A

Given that there are no comparable, nobody else is doing. My recommendation is you know this is probably a candidate for custom stuff that a Dynamics can add and not promote as a okay, all right we'll leave that, so um we want to be able to mark them, as so we'll never come back to these things and stuff.

A

So maybe we'll just put a uh you know, maybe in the interest of time, if Santa's can, if we can put a couple of comments on, um will the custom field or something like that, so we'll never come back to these.

C

Yeah, you can uh add that commenting custom improved okay,.

A

I'll I'll come up with some formatting or whatever, so we know just by looking at it. We've already been through these fields.

B

A

All right, so that's a academics I believe we captured everything right in the center you're good right. You know the first time you're doing this I think um all of the gaps are addressed. Then it is not realistic. I I'm questioning, should we even have these columns here. Nobody's contributing I need some help. uh You know trying to get people to kind of, engage and stuff I, don't know a lot of people there.

A

um So if you guys have seen dynatrace representation uh Representatives, uh you know elastic CS or something um push them to work.

C

We are covering six companies here. Six vendors I think we are uh I, think it's it's fine, okay,.

A

All right, I'm cool, the the more the the better I think uh I I know. I, don't want us to go through this one more time, kind of redefine and stuff. That's it anyway.

A

B

Yeah I don't see the device type.

A

Oh yeah, yeah, you're right, okay, so I almost missed it. So.

B

But I feel like that might be covered. um I think that's covered. What.

C

Is an example of a device type I.

B

Think it's um I think if we look at our semantic conventions, it's probably more like yeah, like whether it's mobile and like a combination of whether it's mobile and.

A

Then that's platform.

B

Yeah so I think between those two it's covered.

A

Okay, um are you able to look at the you know easily? What uh you know, various values for device type are in your in your site. Is that what it is um just mobile.

B

um Yes, let me find that um foreign, but we can I can come back to it. If we want to okay.

A

Okay sounds good. um You can even put a comment here so I'll just say.

B

Perfect yeah um and again device type shouldn't change. So therefore, it's probably a candidate to to go as a resource, as opposed to uh within the payload of an event. Definition.

A

Sorry I was stopping really uh hard, didn't hear a part of it. uh Can you.

B

Yeah, so it's probably a candidate to go as a resource, because it won't change between requests on on a single page, yeah yeah, rather than within the payload of the event. Definition. If.

A

We captured it right so I believe across the board. We don't have a need for that. uh Most likely, it's got to be part of the resource, everybody would get it for free or something, and then we can decide yeah. If you want to save it or not. Okay,.

B

I'll add that to the description this.

A

Is actually starting to look uh close to done, I I, don't know it just seems pretty surprising, but um anyway, um so for us timestamp is done. um This is done page type. um This one seems like it's a concept that we have. um We need to look at the various values there uh are. Are you able to look at? Is there anything in common.

B

No, it's just just a string saying it's coming from a to a page type, meta tag.

A

Oh meta tag, okay, so what I was saying was right, then, okay, yeah um page type, do we uh is that I believe you know nobody else jumped on that field and said: oh, it's a nice concept or anything like that. um So it seems like it's a B I think to group a bunch of pages and things like okay, so it'll be a custom field.

A

Okay, you and I we talked about it. Refuri is there a market. Behavior cookies are all um stuff that.

A

The same bi uh thing um I believe um it's sort of related to kind of close related to uh Geo uh that marketing it's a marketing term right. They have a way of uh segmenting the population.

C

Yeah, but what does cookies refer to cookies?.

A

Is um there is, there is a bunch of cookies that we collect automatically from the browser um that um users can specify which cookies they want to collect the values of cookies they want to collect. uh We also collect some standard marketing cookies.

A

um Now, do you want to add anything to it?.

B

um No, it really is the method of having values that are sent to the page. That's.

A

uh It's specific, for uh you know Market, behavior and cookies. All three are uh specific to how the you know. Bi folks would want to look at this data, and you know kind of track. What's going on, some of the cookies might have something like um um you know: third-party experimentation, ID or something like that, um or some promo that they're running um you know things like that. They just drop those things into cookie, okay and capture them separately.

A

Custom fields, in my opinion, yeah.

C

A

Maybe I'm like this yeah that probably is a custom field. That's your Market Market behavioral case. So that's the format. I think you know I'm going to use to basically say it's a vendor specific field. Okay, sure, okay, um screen rest is done. um Domain.

A

Nearly captures domain separately, but it's not here, um nobody else- seemed to capture it. This is embedded in the page URL anyway, I.

C

Don't think the domain of.

A

In this URL If This Were, the page you're firing this event docs.google.com is roaming. That's it.

C

Isn't it isn't it yeah.

A

It isn't it that's why I said it I, don't think we need it. Okay,.

A

We talked about that talked about that user consent again. This one is a privacy related stuff, um I'm sure you guys have um something similar to that everybody's got this privacy stuff right. So when when and you um go to a Microsoft page, there is a banner that shows up about um we're going to capture your information. Everybody's got the key Banner these days, so the user consent is a field that it's a Boolean.

A

If I remember correctly lets you say was consent acquired or not, and then the concept details says what all the consented to I'm: okay with marketing cookies I'm, not okay with um or marketing cookies. There's a the bigger thing: um I'm, okay, with um essential, not okay, with marketing or something like that so consent details is a Json blog for us. I believe uh correct me, jump in and correct me.

B

Yeah and the kids the consent team, it has changed the format of that blob. Okay,.

A

um But I believe there is a need for capturing this kind of information right. How do you guys? You know uh what.

C

Is the purpose of it? Is it analytics? Yes,.

A

I know it's it's usage right, so, if you think about it, we collect the consent, uh information from the users, uh and then you know um the expected implementation is that, depending on the user's choice, you either drop a cookie for tracking them or not. The cookie Banner is what I'm specifically talking about. If the user says it's okay to drop essential cookies, but do not drop um marketing cookies right and what they're saying their intent. Is that never call me about uh upselling or anything like that?

A

But if you need to contact me for the apps crashing, apps, not working I've created something like that. Please do that's kind of what they in a really high level. I'm talking. This data has to be captured along with the Telemetry. That's getting captured, so the users of the data can, you know, are expected to always have a filter, I'm doing to go to a marketing campaign. I'll, say: consent, details, user consent equals true where user consent equals true consent details. Dot marketing is yes, typically.

C

Is it the domain.

B

Well, it's not the user, so it really. um While the data got captured, it's a case of well. How are we allowed to use this data that got captured yeah.

A

Yeah otherwise yeah.

C

This looks useful as I'm wondering will this be sent on in in every uh signal, every pan and an event. Every.

A

Every event it has to be there because I believe there are. There is tools that um the government- uh you know the governments required us to give users to change that right. So today, I log in first time, I see. First, you know a website and then I say you know what I'm a little bit wary: I'm just gonna, let them know cookies, just don't drop any cookies as it goes, and I see diminished, behavior and then maybe I changed my consent.

A

So the events that were captured, pre-cons pre- um um uh you know you know the the timeline right. The first consent was maybe restricted. Second consent was more or the other way around or whatever it is. So we need to know at the time of firing events. What was the consent uh choices I believe um because it can change, users can change their consent, I believe.

B

Within the lifetime of a page, so really, if it was going to be sent as a resource, then it needs to be the ephemeral resource like the uh sessions. um Failing that then yeah it's going to be included in there.

C

Okay yeah. This looks um useful to me as well.

A

Okay, uh what about uh T2 and purvi? What do you guys think.

B

um Yeah, well, we don't necessarily capture this right now, I I, don't see the harm in capturing it.

A

B

A

Right uh we can put that in. um We can probably continue discussions on. You know what uh tools you know you are. You know we will have at our disposal to go capture that you know. We should know that way to capture it, I guess what we can do is we can drop it here and then I are now will take the action item of kind of populating this description, you know based on how we populate them and use them, and then others can use that guidance. Yeah.

B

So user consent is either a string um saying true or null looking at the code, yeah.

A

Did you say true or null.

B

True or no yeah, so, okay, so it's either not sent or has the value of true as a string um and then user consent is well consent. Details is going to vary, that's just a blob, so.

A

B

Sure we're going to be able to like standardize that across everyone, apart from just saying it's a Jason Bob.

A

Yeah, it's it's a cookie consent right! That's what it is uh right.

B

um Yeah I: it's used slightly differently, so in in 1DS it's um we got the consent, team and I'm just trying to look up see what app insights does.

C

Yeah, that's what I I think, maybe details we can talk later, but I have I'm curious about that too. Cookies are tied to a domain um and even a path, so this consent also does it. uh Is it scope to The Domain in the path correct.

A

Yes, okay, um so what will happen is I believe the the consent cookies. You know if, if you are say, doctor google.com and this Banner, where to show here, they would typically drop it in google.com, google.com and not inside a particular path or something they could drop it in a path they could say dots.google.com toolbar, but that path does not correspond to the spreadsheets path.

A

Here, in my you know, as far as I know, somebody got to make them wrong, but once that's there, if I switch to voice.google.com the cookies are not um you know, transferable unless they wrote it to google.com. So it really comes down to you know um what the company decides a concerned at google.com level is okay or do we need consent for every product or something like that.

B

Right: okay, okay, all right yeah, we don't Define the format, it's um it's supplied by the user, because so when they initialize us, they tell us what they want to put in that blog. So, okay,.

A

All right cool, uh so that's good and then I I truly believe. This is something that we don't need to even discuss about. This was uh if the event was fired manually, uh like somebody called capture. You know uh page view, and actually this might be useful um anyway, um or was it automatic?

A

Do you guys care about this use case at all.

A

Is there a need for Need for capturing if the if the event was fired automatically by an instrumentation or was it uh you know through an API.

B

C

B

Give an example of how you've used that.

A

um I'm trying to rake my mind uh in a brain trying to figure out. You know why the marketing people ask for it and we gave it to them. Guinness, okay, um any thoughts now, while I'm.

B

um No I I think it's a filter on the on Azure monitor, so they can say whether it's filtered out, but really it's going to depend on the application. Like some applications won't care. Other ones might want to go.

A

B

Did a page view for a dialogue um and it was manual or something yeah.

A

I see yeah, it seems like a pretty and it's a small sliver of a use case. um You know the fact that we, don't you know, remember and stuff and I'm, okay to just drop it as a custom field. If it's interesting, we'll, definitely bring it back um for description. I'll.

B

Go hunting for any comments in the code. Okay,.

A

There's most likely is really the 1DS side. Now, uh if you're looking for it.

B

Well, it's in and look great it's in.

A

Actually, actually, Who would know the use case, or you know the usage of this would be Dimitri right, um Adobe, um okay, yeah! You might be a good person to talk about that.

B

It's all exceptions so whether the exception was thrown.

A

B

A

I see uh perhaps an exception context. This might be useful, yeah, we'll chat about it when we get there user ID is done. um So these things um as long as we capture user, ID I think we're good. These are the mechanism uh different mechanisms of capturing the detailed information about a user ID and then promoting them to user ID. Let me quickly chat about this.

A

um There are actually these two other ideas. If you know we're able to capture authenticated user ID at the client, it would be that local ID is um the client ID I'm thinking, maybe I'm I'm wrong here so I know the auth ID is captured at the ingestion service. I know that for sure local ID is at the browser. Yeah.

B

So you can call authenticated user ID and that sets the auth ID.

A

Oh also, okay, I see, so, do you guys have a need to capture authenticated idea, or do you only capture one of those if both are available in your systems.

B

Since I moved to sell for us yeah, there have been users who want to include the who, who is the logged in user into the application at that moment. So we have encouraged using the standard. The address attribute.

A

Okay, so you you want to capture one of them right. You know either um the anonymous ID that you roll are the authenticated, ID, correct.

B

We don't currently capture Anonymous ideas only if the user sets.

A

Okay, so I guess so this one is really uh then uh should be the user at equality is. Writing seems like these two could be. um You know if you want to capture both or you know, need to know. If it is um Anonymous or authenticated differentiate, then you can track it, but I don't want them to be a top level field for hotel.

C

um I I think it's it's kind of a user supplied uh field right, I think the user will have to uh I mean the customer will have to map like at runtime. After the after the login uh yeah is successful. They will have to set some parameter or call an API to to set this field set this attribute. So um this we can agree on what the convention will be for for that field. Further attribute.

A

For this one right for user ID.

C

The authenticated user ID I see the.

A

The anonymous user ID.

C

I think we we are going to call visitor ID right.

A

So then, um you know: okay, I I,.

C

Get the whole idea: I didn't follow what it means.

A

Yeah for us it's a little bit of a you know. Let me try- and you know, uh walk through this so and there's multiple scenarios. Let's say there is a unauthenticated page, just a standard page. The SDK will typically drop a um uh good as an ID in a cookie and stuff and then it'll uh automatically capture that ID into local ID, and um this user.id field is not even set at the SDK level.

A

Nav correct me: if I'm wrong, it'll it'll not even be in the payload ever the only two things that will be in the payload. Are these two things so first use case we will populate this auth ID will leave it blank we'll send it to the ingestion. Endpoint ingestion endpoint will basically go through this logic of if user.id equals.

A

If user.id is not now that otherwise local ID, that's logic that they use so priorities for this guy and then um it's that is not there. Then they'll use local ID to populate user and ID. So at rest, this field will be populated for us. That's basically it so that's why it's a little complicated to kind of. In this case, it's user ID, slash, I, guess that's what it is um and then this one I'm just going to strike out auth ID is there. So the question is: do we want uh for us?

A

Our 30 will end up in ID as well, but if we want to separately capture, it um looks like um Splunk is doing it. um So.

C

After the user logs in will you continue to send the anonymous ID.

A

uh We do yes, that's why there's separate fields in the back end to store them. If they they want to use anonymous ID, they could do that or it's again for the Privacy reasons and stuff right. There could be a data set that only has Anonymous IDs. You can never tie back or something like that.

C

B

C

B

Good example of that is well like when I was on the identity team. uh Effectively we handle all the login. So all the pages before you log in are all um all have a uid, unauthenticated ID and then once you sign in we've, then got your authenticated ID, but we still send the uid um so that at the back end we can deliver together to get the session uh across, not one all.

C

Right, okay, um I I, just realized that the visitor ID- you know you could um uh add one more uh attribute under the end user, namespace itself under the like an end user Dot and on ID or end user dot, visitor ID or something so that way, all the um all these attributes are under the end user, namespace.

A

Is a already existing in space.

C

There is an existing namespace yeah, okay.

A

I'd probably need uh links or something to it. I.

C

Think you, you have the link on the right side. There.

A

Yeah well, this guy, okay, yeah.

B

It's only seems to have like ID role and scope, though so.

C

Yeah, so we could introduce one more end: user Dot and on ID Anonymous ID, or something how.

B

About the device ID.

A

um Device ID is a little bit different, I I know we have had this discussion a lot in our shared devices and stuff I believe good.

B

Right well, so it depends if you want to reset the user ID. If the identity editor is changes from authenticate to Noodle, but if the user ID that is for that is the anonymous one, is related to the browser win browser as a cookie, then it's basically saying which device it is on.

A

um Yes, if it's a single user, so let's say you and I share the same computer and we log in uh you know well log in into the computer right. So let's say it's a you know: you use your Windows login to login. I use my Windows login to log in, but both of us are bringing at the same web, page, say github.com as an anonymous user.

A

um If you capture a device, I didn't you and I will look the same in the back end. We don't want that. We want uh D2 to have a separate uh Anonymous ID. We don't have to have a separate Anonymous ID, so devices is going to merge those two. Oh.

B

Yeah, maybe maybe just think it devices. The hardware is maybe too much devices in a scope of of a browser profile.

B

User would have its own device ID kind.

A

Of that's a good point for us. What did we say device ID? Let me give you one quick. Second,.

B

Yeah I, don't think we've got it in patreon here are we um yeah device? Id is I, think a unique ID for that for that device. uh We do capture that completely separately to the user.

A

Yeah, did we go through device ID at all here, I, don't believe we do.

B

I I don't think we have yeah.

A

There's something about device that we did. Maybe I'm lost. Okay, see so oh the browser browser stuff.

A

So he said it'll be a browser attribute, not a device. Okay,.

A

So, um coming back to this with this one here, um do we do we believe the device ID would be uh so I guess we can talk about that? You know what will the device ID be for a browser? Will it be the device ID of the device, or is it something built with the browser? Well,.

B

We both have things like electron where effectively you are running in a browser, but you we actually have access to the device. So react native is the same thing. You're actually running the JavaScript and it looks like a browser environment, but we've got access to the real device ID, so yeah um and they're both use cases that we we have today so device ID is completely separate to the user. Id.

A

Yeah I think so damn do you do. Do you agree.

B

Sure I mean I, I mean I, don't get it hard, they were making device.

A

Hardwares but like yeah, just that is too much yeah yeah. Okay, um so it sounds like we need a way to capture the auth ID. Also correct. Consider ID would be anonymous.

C

So the auth ID is the end user.id, as per the existing 70 conventions, Anonymous one. We need to introduce something: okay,.

A

C

B

That you call no.

A

You can call it end. User.Id.

C

B

A

Okay, cool that actually got a link yeah due to what uh that's interesting I think it's just going to go. Some random place, I'm just curious, nice, oh end, user.id website, okay, so yeah remove the link and I want people. What.

A

I've gone away: okay, there you go I, don't want people to click on that and um okay cool all right. uh This will quick. uh What else is there um yeah time check? You know we're one one minute over yeah. Maybe we just stop here and continue with um our stuff tomorrow um and then uh finish with you know: I don't believe. Martin is standing tomorrow, right, no okay, so it should be. Perhaps maybe uh use tomorrow's discussion first. Other topics excuse me and then pick it up next week. uh What do you guys think.

C

um But what what? What is the next step, though uh I'm thinking that, instead of uh doing a similar exercise on other type of Events, maybe we could um you know, take this to the next level, like I, think we need to split between what field goes into resource? What goes into the Spanish tributes? Are they.

A

Even right absolutely so that could be a parallel effort right so I, you know, my thing is I think we need to continue driving this as soon as one matures. We need somebody to pick it up and start actually solidifying this and you know, think about implementation. You know exactly where stuff is going to go and things they can happen in parallel. I think right.

B

Yeah, which is what I think Santosh is Keen to start on.

A

It's not going.

B

And defining the convention for for the pace, yeah.

C

So I can um take a first cut on the on on splitting these fields into resource versus signal level attributes and put it in some. Some schema like um format, yeah, um okay and then maybe in the tomorrow's call, with the larger audience we can, we can go over the Fetch and xhr.

A

Okay, so I think uh you know the the goal. Is that once you know, um once we have this all defined I'll take this uh transfer this over to this column here um with more descriptions or whatever, whatever then perhaps below this we can start defining? This is how implementation is called. This is this: is the mechanism we're going to use to fire page view, and um these are the hotel Concepts or you know, places where that particular field is going to go and things like that, so that definitely.

C

We need to add uh one more uh called open, Telemetry, slash, maybe resource so that we put all the resource level attributes there in that list.

A

C

List, sorry, so here no no in the other document. Only um so on the left side, I see open, Telemetry web span Network. Oh.

A

C

Here, yeah yeah, so.

A

These are captured here because um see, remember this one here right. It's list of events captured by individual vendors, correct.

C

And the um the the result of this exercise, we want to capture in the open Telemetry uh once.

A

No, no sorry, let me clarify so. These are essentially read this as open Telemetry web span, Network events as Splunk expanded work events. This is here, so we know how Splunk is capturing this, that's something so where do.

C

A

Events is where we have to do the final definition.

C

uh I see, um then, can you add one more um for for the resource level.

B

Yeah I think the reason.

A

Yeah, of course it comes from here, so you know. Ideally every one of these things must be there. If it's missing uh my bad I haven't uh kept them in sync. um It was. It was almost like an example. So I did you know we can remove these things for all. You know, because we just finished page view we'll do page view and then, when we go to page action.

C

No, no, what I meant is um in the page view, we will only capture those fields that are exclusive to page view, but the ones that are common, the ones that are uh going to be. You know common to all these um different types.

A

It shouldn't be anything right, so, whatever in a flat structure, anything we want to capture that part of page view should be here. What.

B

Sort of Scientology is talking about is having a separate table to say these are the resources that could be specified that will go with every event.

C

So Quran in in open Telemetry, um there is a concept of a resource right.

B

C

um So so, against one resource you send a bunch of spans or events, sure the resource has a bunch of attributes and individual spans and events have their attributes.

B

C

So um so the page view um whether it's sent as a spanner an event will have its own attributes, but there are some attributes that will go into the resource section: let's say uh the screen height and width, so that will go in the resource uh section. So.

B

The service dog version, the reporting yeah, yes,.

A

Okay, okay, I think I think I'm following yeah, um so you could yeah. Let's what what did you know? Why don't you take a stab at that and then we can figure out how we want to organize and stuff, but it's got to be under the wrong events. That's it! So! Let's not you know, this is only for vendors. Okay, I! Don't want to be changed. Our discussion should be all about use that as input- and this is the output for us.

C

Okay, and um do you do we also want to start um saying that each of these is it going to be a span or an event.

A

Yeah we can do that proposal. That's a discussion. We should have as part of implementation. I think um that's a little bit of a longer conversation based on yeah um you, you can actually put it as and say you know, I think it's a span event, but it should be up for discussion. You know uh people should be um yeah, I, don't have an opinion at the moment. I'm really only not only focused, you know. If you were to look at it that way. It is just Define. These things, yeah.

B

Just just to find the event, so there is another discussion that once we've got some defined, that we then have to say: well, how are we gonna? Are we going to send to these fields that we're defining in a in a single event.data and how is that going to be represented, or are we going to go and Define our own fat level semantic conventions?

B

C

Yeah, okay, so okay, let's do one thing: I'll try something offline and we can discuss next. Tuesday sounds.

A

C

But in tomorrow's call, maybe um you know we: uh if you don't join, then we can. um You know work on the Fetch and xhr uh Taps I'll.

A

Join and not a problem, but I don't want to close on the page view without button here, because it's neuralik and he's been actually participating in stuff. So when he's here, we can just do need a lick and close on page view. We can move on to the next one, so I'll join tomorrow.

C

um Okay, and so um given that Martin is not going to be there tomorrow as well, um you I think he's gone for two weeks, so you can send him a message and he said he will respond, got.

A

C

uh um Tomorrow's call we can focus on the Fetch and xhr okay.

A

Sounds good, so we can go there. um Do we, you know. Are there anything else that is important? uh Like page load span, you know it's okay, to push it to the end. Just asking this audience.

C

So the page load span and page view are, are going to have mostly the same info.

A

um No, this this one's probably going to be a lot less info, I think.

B

Yeah, this is just a containment that the page view event will be linked with yeah, so yeah. This.

A

One this one's just timing and things: that's basically it maybe yeah. We will wait on that. uh It's going to be transitioning from a lot of attributes to spans. It could be confusing. So let's go to fetch yeah I'm I'm. Okay, with that yeah.

C

Yeah, okay, check, Etc and maybe error also.

A

Okay, I, don't know if I'll be able to do. uh You know more work and you know in preparation: I'll, try.

C