Open Telemetry Uncategorized, 2 Oct 2019

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From YouTube: 2019-10-02 Project status

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OpenTelemetry project status discussion

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How are you I'm.

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Good, how are you I'm.

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Good. Thank you.

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You and me I, don't.

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Teddy's gonna join or not we'll give him a few minutes. I think Morgan accepted to join us, though great.

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Are you doing I'm.

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Good, how are you doing I'm.

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Good, how are you settling in.

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Fairly well, it's a lot of various work streams, yeah.

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I'm still reorienting it's gonna take a couple weeks. I think yeah.

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Now, how long has it been for you since so you join right, stay, oh.

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Says I joined one except it was I've been here since June, but I've only gotten involved in the hotel work in the past couple of weeks.

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Tom Thomas left I did.

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Yeah so yeah so it'll take a minute to figure out what's going on yeah, but it's good I think.

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I think last meeting was quite productive with with us ironing out the margins. It was something I'm you know. I was very concerned about the breaking changes and sort of the SIG's going and doing their own thing versus just back somewhere floating up in the ether and I. Think was good that we connected. That is that Austin I saw an a joint, no that's Amelia hi.

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It just gets more disappointing from here.

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No, it doesn't don't worry. I do like the work that Austin has been doing and.

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It saw the work that you had done. Basically, it manifested there right with the project. Chart I, don't know if you have noticed, but the hotel, the open, telemetry Iowa is now a proper website, rather than just a static page and I.

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Noticed I just landed a commit this morning. You.

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Know there you go so I like the project chart, although the numbers are completely off, but that's okay, it's a start. Yeah.

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Wanted to talk a little bit about that today as well and sure, let's see Raul is joined thanks for joining rah ho whole is the good one of the leads on on this side for the go sig hello, Midori has taken over the engineering management work on like stepside Thomas I. Believe you met him during the summits. Yes,.

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Left I think like step at at some point in the last couple weeks.

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To meet you, nice.

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To meet you too,.

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Hello, hi how's.

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Everyone doing.

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Yeah everyone's good, are you.

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uh Tired, just because I flew to New York last night and didn't sleep much New.

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York, are you, are you back and you're, not back in Seattle, I, suppose.

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No I was in Seattle on Monday one day back after vacation and then I had to fly to New York. Oh.

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So I think I wanted to talk primarily two things. One was about the sakes so today, just so the folks that were not on the call. This morning, we.

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Kicked off a stake for PHP PHP.

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There's an echo.

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And so that's that that went well, I think a Nazi and MailChimp are: are the two companies that want to get involved in this and Ted had joined the call he gave a good overview of you know what the current state of the project is, and then they we got into a little bit of the details and what's the best way to get them going so Chris when the Python, so you get joined as well.

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So that's just a quick update, I think on the versioning side, the last meeting, continuation of the last meeting and I don't know Morgan how much you've been caught up. But on the specification see there is a document called milestones that Andy here. Let me see if I can pull that up real quick.

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Morgan, while you were out last week, we had a meeting where we aligned specifically.

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Around the spec.

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What the next milestones are for the specification and the key takeaway was that, while we've identified some milestones on file, version, 0.23 or and I think the notion was by 5:00 we'd be ready to go to be a the. The key key takeaway was that we decided that the SIG's will adir to this versioning rather than so previously. Prior to that meeting, there was a talk off well in order to not break the momentum, let the SIG's implement.

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You know the Delta, where the spec was not ready right and then that would win the spec Israeli media introduced a breaking change, so this prohibits that, in other words like we're, the things are required to be tracking to the spec version. So in other words, if they released alpha 0.2, then you know: we'd know that hey tracing context, propagation and metrics is available. I.

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Think it makes a ton of sense, I mean obviously the signals that they're on dates, and we expect certain dates of the four most core languages. But this is consistent with my expectations. Yeah.

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So that was to me and that's what I was prior to joining the scholar selling Midori, that you know. I was fairly pleased that that happened. Cuz I felt, like you know, it just introduces more confusion. All right, hey the sig is whatever. Then the spec is alpha, but my library is whatever like a different version, and this sort of gives you no consistency. Now. Having said that, as we peel the onion a little bit, I was talking to a tink Rahul yesterday and folks in the notes he had.

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A similar concern is that the package managers, like the mainland equivalent, said whatever it is, and go, etc. They have special meanings around. You know the minor versions, so in other words, when you have cases of diamond dependencies, in other words, like you know, you have two parent dependencies that are there. They need open, telemetry, but different versions. That's where we get into a little bit of trouble. Look.

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Think that is something that Ted had raised and he's. You know he's aware of that, but I wanted to see if anybody like, if you or matauri, had any initial thoughts on that on that approach like how should we I think we're? Okay till we GA I think this is all after GA yeah.

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Know enough about these specific situations to know when it would be a problem most of my experiences in like.net, where I don't think this would be a big challenge if certain managers have issues with minor Bergin Sandberg.

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Did you join from the dentist's office.

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Hey yeah I just got wet.

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Yeah, we are just just saying that, because I, we heard a lot of noise and we thought the AI is on the chair. Just kidding I'm glad you made it I survived.

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No cavities yeah.

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Yeah we're just getting Morgan caught up on the meeting from last week about the milestones for specification. Great, the topic of discussion and I. Think you're, aware of this. A little bit is language, specific language, specific packet managers like what go has they have significance around the minor versions.

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And that the versioning scheme that we have adopted and sort of we, you maintain that a library should track two specific that can be a challenge over there and I was I, wanted to quickly see what we wanted to how we wanted to address that I know it's way far out, but at least wanted to get some initial thoughts on it before in the.

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Lab have you been following the issue there's like ongoing issue thread and the spec repo about that I believe the what everyone's leaning towards is just just having the major version numbers coordinating everything beyond that seems to be too complicated, or you know too many edge cases in one language or another. But just saying you know we're gonna hit 1.0, and you know everything you can't have like a 2.0 SDK until respect hits 2.0 or a 2.0 API, but to maybe just leave it at that.

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But there's like an ongoing I, believe it either in this spec, a PR against the spec or and otep. That Tigran is meeting where that's getting patched out.

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One of the waffle made yesterday when I was discussing this evening. You know once we get to GL. Wasn't one point going beyond to support me language, specific regularities? If you will just have a matrix compatibility, matrix posted on the language page, maybe that's an easier and quicker way to see hey this library version. Is you.

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Aligned to stack version whatever one two, that's another option: yeah.

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Yeah I think it'll be easy to to keep the major versions the same, because no language really puts the impediment there, but yeah in practice in open tracing. Literally, all we had was an API, and even that was a show. So yeah I agree that trying to tightly couple them beyond that is ends up just creating trouble and in practice it wasn't a big deal. Yeah.

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Okay, so I guess we'll let the issue come to a conclusion over there. I just wanted to make sure like yeah yeah. This meeting I wear because I know the.

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Moving on to the next thing of it, the next topic I had was I, saw Austin rolled out the new website. Obviously it's a work in progress, so I was hoping. Austin is gonna join today, but it's okay didn't I can message them separately, but I was thinking. Would it be a good idea to things and I wanted sort of everybody's thoughts? One put like a little banner that says how far or something like that. So people know that you know because there's a lot of pages right now that has no information on it.

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So at least that's our way of signaling that hey this website is not good back in second, maybe a way to collect feedback source feedback, basically around the website. What content would you like to see that kind of stuff any thoughts on that I.

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Think that's great. The the website is very easy to update I. Think it's based on you know the same. You go markdown thing we had before.

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So you know I've seen websites put like a little like triangular banner in the corner. You know not like a fourth like a 40 on github. That's.

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Exactly what I was thinking yeah things.

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Like that, it is almost feasible, it would be slightly fancier, but you could have that link go directly to the Edit Page, because they're all a markdown file right. You could even have it linked directly to the page on github for the edit page, and so it's just they see something they want to change it. They click the button and then they can submit the edit themselves.

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But yeah I totally agree just something like that. Even if it's just a basic thing that just takes them to a link explaining how they can you know just make an issue or you know: here's how you change it yourself. We update. It would be great.

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We could do that yeah.

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Yeah I agree something that's just just very like hey. If you see something like just the thing that takes you to your page, it's like here's, how you submit an issue or you know it's easy to make an update yourself. You want to just make this contribution. Some-Some page that says that info on it yeah.

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Yeah all right being at Austin and see if he has any specific ideas or not on that and then we'll take it from there right. Sweet.

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Yeah: here's a request which is just to get since he's gonna be making a lot of edits just he needs he can't. You know self self merge his own PRS yeah.

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From the traffic noise, you can't merge something yard, so he was hoping to just if you all would have mind watching that backlog just to make sure it stuff doesn't hang out there and I think he was going to nominate me is just another improver. It would be great just to maybe get some more people with the ability to click the merge button into that repo.

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It's not I feel like it's a less contentious repo that you know the cigs and all the other stuff, though we just don't want to get blocked up by you know. It's.

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You're out there yeah and that's why I.

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Accrued is mega PR. Yesterday, yeah.

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This going I'm.

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Gonna prove it, and you know this is yeah.

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Know so yeah I'm totally on board with that yeah.

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Is a manual also an approver of the repo.

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I, don't think so. There's one person it's just right now: u2 and Austin and then Steve somebody from omniscient there's.

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Only people on it but.

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We should add.

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Emmanuel was he approved most of my peers for that he's not sweet yeah yeah.

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Yeah go ahead and Adam and I I think yet we should just take the approach of like fix it in post. You know like approve changes and someone's like hey. That looks weird, then just keep on fixing it and like yeah, not worry too much.

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Before we move on to the from the website, the last thing that I had on the website was: what day are we is there? A particular I know cube corner is the next event. If you will like do, how do we define I, wanted to see that? What is it that we want the website to be by that time? Right, like I know, the work is in progress, but I think we should be work. We should have a goal that says that by cube con, we want XY and Z in place.

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Yeah- and this is gonna- be my biggest focus in the coming weeks.

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All right I think we need a plan both for the website and just like a general marketing plan Amelia our meeting early next week to go over the the marketing focus plan, but I haven't yet like we collectively haven't really put together a broader plan for the website. That's awesome that Austin's working on things.

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To be clear, like it's done anything otherwise, but we need something a little more concrete, a little more vision behind it would.

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It be, would it be a good idea for once you and Emilia meet next week and after that meeting perhaps come up with a list of milestones? Yes,.

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On the website, and obviously on the marketing side, the marketing side- you know you guys can track, but on the websites at least, we can see that hey. Are we getting those? Oh yeah.

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Marketing I think Emilia I can take also more direct action on networking er. It's the website, I think. The challenge that we've had collectively is just the lack of strong opinions like I. Don't be honest that I'm a strong opinions about what the website should look like. It should have some documentation.

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Tell people what the project does and be good enough for that. But if.

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Has strong notions of what our website should look like I.

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You know I, think I, think you raise a good point. Perhaps what we can do is model from a website right that an existing open source, pretty much say, hey, let's try and get to 20% of this and I'm. Not yeah should be my assume, what define what that 20% looks like if that and you know a QuickStart section- a project status I'm just making up stuff, but if we have those Madison than we can say by coupon, we have a very specific thing.

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We're working on rather than Austin, is doing a bunch of work on the website, which is very so nebulous right in yeah.

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And that is more efficient use of his time as yeah.

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What do y'all think about just we have like sort of a half sig for the website right now, yeah. Why don't we just go full sig, you know create creator channel and just put a regular meeting on the calendar. We.

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And that'll be a way if there's other people who care other people have like content copy edit people they and show up like an open tracing. For example, Red Hat was able to assign content people. You know who are super bang-up, so that might be a way to attract some more interest. Yeah.

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I will go, create a PR right now to the community repo to add a thing for the website and then we'll figure out. What day of the week, one of me yeah.

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I think it's half there right, because you've already got the you know the approvers and maintain errs and stuff. We just need a channel and a meeting yep yeah.

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All right, cool.

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I'm meeting with Austin a little bit later today to talk about other things if you'd like I can actually just let him know what's happened here, what's transpired and if he has.

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Plan that that he would like to socialize I can let him know he.

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And I and I think Ted and had already got over like a rough template, I think there's like collectively. We need to just be spending more time on it.

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Midori, in your tops with him, definitely I think that's a good idea if he has a better plan. I think tell him to circulate that, and then you know that's a starting point too. I try to be great.

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Yep can do awesome.

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In terms of, we typically also do sick status, but most of the things are not present. Like specification is missing. I think we met last weeks. I think we know fairly well where they are I, think that you mentioned that they are planning to wrap up alpha 0.2 related work by ended this week. Is that correct, yeah.

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We're hoping the real like final thing: there is just that metrics, the big metrics draft that that josh has that's. That's the real meat and potatoes and I. Think once that in we'll be able to say you know, point two on the spec and then we're trying to do a drive of just getting all of the SIG's to put milestones into the backlog that match that point two point three of the spec: it won't match their own inter version numbers necessarily, but just you know, tracking relative.

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This speck and I don't know if you saw that, but then that graphic on the website will kind of stay up to date with that yeah. So.

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Sweet yeah in general what I've been asking Midori to help with sorry, if you all have been gone over this already and hi Midori, but just I've been trying to get more insight into the backlogs and the status of the SIG's. Currently it feels like you, know, I kind of have to go around and like poke people and kind of manually collect up the information and I would like to have like confidence in something like these milestones or something like that.

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Where I can just go, look in their backlogs and feel like I got a grip on where, where things are relative to a roadmap, so any any thoughts or effort that could be put into getting that into a state where we can have a kind of cross language view of the project would be super great I. Think.

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I think, first of all, this thing I think I agree with you a and B I. Don't think all of these things have these milestones that are in sync, so I think the first step is to get them there.

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Having said that, if from what I heard from you, if specification has done that specification, sig has done that then I think what we can do is tell the things that I can talk to. The sig leaves on my own to tell them that hey, go, look at the specifications, digging out the milestones, etcetera and do the same for your sake and start tracking to those and I. Think that lays the foundation for what you're saying, which is the next level of it, is build on top or on top of that basic.

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You know, yeah yeah,.

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We've got that milestone thing that Sergey put out I, think I think it's great I think it needs, maybe some refinement and clarity and to be put up onto the website, but yeah some kind of feedback loop where the the SIG's are like looking at that and then making their own backlog out of that. So you know it's it's possible to look, because you can look at these backlogs right now and I could see their stuff happening. It's hard to to gauge, like the relative progress against this yardstick that I'll.

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Take that on this and I already taken an action item, I'll talk to the screen.

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Cool just a quick status update, Python I can only talk to the SIG's that I know Python released yesterday. It's alpha, which is good yay, but it's also missing exporters, which is the part of the definition of alpha, so I think compliance to the to the versioning is is getting there. It's not district test, but I think where we are is good.

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I believe node was also following suit in terms of I think they were ready to launch the alpha for tracing API and SDK and for metrics just API by tomorrow, or today. I haven't talked to great.

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Been in meetings all day, that's node go is in a similar place, but I don't know exactly where I owe ya. I talked to him yesterday. Go is also ready to launch for tracing just for tracing this week. However metrics they think will probably be by middle of October yeah.

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Java I'd believe exporters are missing, but don't hold me to it. I don't have a good status on that one yeah.

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But this is just where everybody's knowledge, that is all great.

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I think C sharp is in the lead. There I think they're. Actually they've got all the stuff in on lock at this point, but Austin knows the deets they're.

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Awesome that is all I had. Did anybody else on the call have anything that they wanted to bring up talk about JIT.

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Just a high-level note, so there's some of us like Midori and me and I'm sure some others who would be happy to do some like community management, / triage work, you know, but right now you need to have some level permissions in order to do that. Right, like I. Think github has like a specific triage, er permissions, but basically the ability to managed labels like be.

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To not necessarily approve or push code, but like just manipulate labels and.

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And stuff that thing we don't have like a community membership level that maps to that right now, and so that's like just like a point of process, I'd love to hand out that access, but we need to kind of define what that looks like so I've been meaning to make like an issue for that. If someone else wants to champion that you know a finish line, that'd be great, but that that's a thing that would be helpful. I missed.

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The last one: what did you say that it's on? Oh no.

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I was saying, I've been meaning to make an issue and championing that if someone else once do that, that's that's great, but that's just a thing. I was planning on doing I, don't know if anyone has like a specific plan. I was I was gonna. Ask for something. That's organization know wide yeah.

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That people don't have to go around getting like a bajillion permission, since it's such a low level of access, I'm.

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Gonna be easier, is it the tech committee or the governance coming.

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Yeah same group I know Sergey had he had initially pushed back and been like. Can you just go sit by cig, but then, when I looked at at the actual membership levels, we had it felt like we just we just didn't, have one that matched this so I'd like to bring it up again and I would like to say look.

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This will be a lot simpler if we could just have like an organizational wide team that with this level- and you just put people into that team and it's no biggie, so that's my suggestion for how we do it and I can put that into an issue. If people.

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Another approach in their back pocket, you know I'm totally open I.

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Don't have anything at least not my hair, okay,.

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Well, I'll try to make that issue this afternoon and I'll circulate it with you guys just so. You know you can jump on there and hopefully we can get that sorted out. Pretty quick since the access level we're talking about is so low I. Don't think it should be like a contentious, contentious thing. Yeah.

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Yeah anything it makes it easier for well what that wants to participate. Great.

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Yeah yeah, it's it's it's a great way to offer. You know participation for people who are interested, but don't necessarily want to contribute code. So I think it would be good to have that front and center agree.

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Cool great sweet.

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All right, thank you, everybody for your time, yeah.

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Catch up next week, with a week after that.

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