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From YouTube: JavaScript Trends Panel
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A
All
right
and
we
are
live.
Thank
you
so
much
everybody
for
joining
us
today.
My
name
is
rachel
and
I'm
with
the
openjs
foundation,
and
today
I'm
really
excited
about
the
panel
that
we
have
lined
up
today.
So
back
in
2019
before
everything
changed.
We
held
this
panel
in
montreal
at
our
global
event,
and
we
talked
all
about
javascript
trends
and
what
2020
had
to
offer
at
that
time.
A
Nobody
knew
what
was
in
store
for
us,
and
so
we
thought
it
would
be
interesting
and
fun
to
bring
back
that
panel
and
talk
about
where
2020
brought
us
and
where
we
hit
the
mark,
where
we
missed
the
mark
and
then
also
what's
to
come
in
2021.
A
B
Thanks
rachel,
so
yeah,
you
did
a
lot
of
setting
the
stage
there,
which
is
great
so
that
I
don't
have
to
because
I
don't
have
a
stage
because
of
the
pandemic.
So
that's
why
we're
all
meeting
on
zoom
like
this
to
reconvene
this
panel
on
tech
or
javascript
trends
in
2020
and,
like
you
said,
I'm
nick
niesi
and
I
moderated
the
panel
in
2019
at
node.js,
interactive
in
montreal
and
I
was
joined
there
and
I'm
joined
now
by
alex
williams,
alex
welcome
back,
thank
you
and
also
liz
parody.
B
Very
excited
to
have
all
of
you
here
and
last
but
not
least
chris
in
it,
in
a
check
that
I
didn't
check
with
you
beforehand,.
D
No
worries-
let's
go
with
chris
anazic,
but
yeah
yeah
great
great-
to
be
here,
obviously
not
as
nice
as
montreal,
but
we'll
we'll
take
it
we'll
take
being
at
home.
B
Yeah
for
sure,
well,
it's
the
personalities
and
all
of
the
personality
is
here,
so
I
think
it'll
still
be
amazing.
So
let's
just
start
right
off
with.
On
a
happy
note,
a
very
happy
note,
because
while
2020
was
a
pretty
tough
year
for
a
lot
of
different
reasons,
there
were
a
lot
of
positive
things
that
happened
in
2020
relating
to
javascript
and
the
javascript
ecosystem.
C
Well,
I
always
say
that
one
of
the
biggest
things
that
happened
in
the
javascript
ecosystem
was
that
npm
was
acquired
by
github.
That
was
like
a
very
big
thing
and
it's
owned
by
microsoft.
I
haven't
seen
a
huge
change
in
npm
like
there's,
not
like
a
revolutionary
thing
like
they
have
removed
added
something
great.
It's
like
I
think,
npm
has
kept
his
stats
to
school
and
I
think
there's
something
really
good
like
I
think
that
benefits
the
ecosystem.
C
So
that's
a
huge
thing
that
happened.
I
would
say
also
that
there
were
important
releases
like
mpn7
premium
or
no
js14
was
released,
and
not
so
technical
stuff,
but
also
happy
stuff.
C
That
happened
in
2020
related
to
the
developer
board,
and
the
programming
world
was
that
working
for
home
has
a
lot
of
good
things
like
there's
bad
things
too,
but
we're
going
to
focus
on
the
good
things,
including
like
flexibility,
there's
like
a
lot
of
work,
life
balance
we
save
money,
saving
commuting,
like
I
hate
commuting,
that's
why
I've
been
working
remotely
like
for
five
years,
because
I
don't
like
to
be
in
traffic,
so
location
independence
like
positive
environmental
impact.
C
B
Yeah,
absolutely
so
kind
of
going
taking
a
step
back
to
the
first
thing
that
you
mentioned,
which
was
github
acquiring
npm,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
kind
of
highlighted
in
the
2019
panel
was
the
influence
that
microsoft
has
on
the
javascript
world
and
so
back.
Then
you
know
they
had
acquired
github
at
that
time,
and
so
you
know
pretty
much.
All
of
the
the
world's
open
source
code
lives
on
github
and
a
lot.
B
If
you
look
at
the
typical
javascript
developer,
they're
using
microsoft's
visual
studio
code
editor
to
write
their
javascript
yeah
and
just
from
there
they're
they're
controlling
a
lot
of
the
the
pieces
of
the
ecosystem.
B
And
now,
if
you
want
to
install
any
kind
of
javascript,
you're
going
to
be
using
npm
and
that
is
now
owned
by
github,
which
is
owned
by
microsoft,
so
they
have
continued
their
their
benevolent
reign
of
the
javascript
world,
and
you
did
mention
that
that
things
have
not
changed
too
much
with
it
with
regard
to
npm
and
chris.
What
do
you
think?
Do
you
think?
That's
a
good
thing.
B
D
You
know
I've
I've
always
kind
of
been
impressed
with
the
new
microsoft.
They've
definitely
have
changed
over
the
years.
You
know
I
and
one
of
the
kind
of
nice
things
that
you
know
has
happened.
Is
you
know
I
do
think
you
know
they've
been
a
great
steward
at
npm,
but
they've
also
launched
a
new
service
called
github
packages,
which
kind
of
supports
you
know
not
only
you
know,
node
and
npm.
You
know
related
artifacts,
but
also
other
things.
D
So
I
think
you
know
we've
kind
of
benefited
from
you
know
lots
of
more
features
like
more
feature.
Velocity
on
you
know,
github
and
just
I
think,
better
tools
for
developers
and
I
think
microsoft's
been
a
fairly
good
steward,
even
though,
like
I
am
forever
suspicious
of
of
things.
But
overall
I
think
it's
been
been
a
lot
of
goodness.
B
Definitely
absolutely
and
yeah,
so
there
there's
been
a
lot
of
that.
I
do
think
that
that
you
know
keeping
the
status
quo
with
regard
to
npm
is
is
very
good.
They
did
release
npm
seven,
which
had
some
some
changes
of
particular
note
is
supporting
auto
installing
peer
dependencies
and
they
also
support
yarn.log
files
and
yarn
is
a
competitor
to
npm
in
terms
of
the
cli,
but
it
still
uses
npm
as
the
repository.
If
I
recall
so,
what
else
happened
in
2020
alex?
E
From
our
point
of
view,
we
look
at
it
in
terms
of
there
seems
to
be
a
new
resurgence
and
interest
in
web
architectures.
Overall
and
javascript
is
a
deep
part
of
that
story,
and
we
look
to
advancements
such
as
what
we're
seeing,
for
instance,
in
the
jam
stack
community,
is
one
example
of
that:
we're
seeing
more
interest
in
web
components
overall,
so
we're
seeing
an
interest
in
there's
a
new
project,
for
instance
from
google
called
the
polymer
project.
E
That's
reflective
of
that,
and
I
think
we
can
ignore
projects
such
as
dino
and
as
well
the
continued
interest
in
typescript
and
typescript.
You
know
we
were
all
commenting
on
its
very
interesting
rise
in
the
redmonk
rankings
and
james
governor
said.
Perhaps
we'll
see
the
day
when
we'll
see
a
one-two
javascript
one
and
typescript
two,
but
in
the
meantime
typescript
has
just
jumped
way
up.
Vulnerabilities
are
still.
E
B
E
Think
that
relates
to
a
lot
of
the
issues
that
we
see
in
the
javascript
community.
I
I
was
just.
I
think
there
was
a
bug,
a
zero-day
bug
that
was
announced
by
google
in
chrome,
as
I
as
I
understand,
I'd
have
to
look
it
up,
but
yeah,
google
chrome,
zero
day
has
afflicted
flicks
windows
and
mac
users.
That's
one
headline
I
see
so
that's
kind
of
a
roundup
of
my
thoughts.
B
Yeah
yeah
and
that's
a
that's
a
good
tie
into
our
next
topic,
which
is
security,
and
that
is
something
that
you
were
saying
in
2019
would
be
an
existential
crisis
for
the
javascript
community
or
will
continue
to
be,
and
you
just
highlighted
a
bunch
of
areas
where
that
definitely
is
still
true,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
that,
but,
as
I
think
back
to
2020
and
what
what
happened
in
there,
I
can't
really
recall
anything
major
beyond
some
of
those,
those
like
typical
browser,
zero
days.
B
E
Well,
I
would
have
to
ask
you
know
chris,
for
instance,
if
he's
seen
anything
reflected
in
you
know
in
in
the
work
that
he's
seen
being
done,
I
mean
it's,
it
seems
like.
Javascript
has
just
not
been
as
much
of
a
news
item
generally
in
this
year,
but
maybe
maybe
that's
a
good
thing.
You
know,
maybe
that's
just
an
example
of
of
of
that
boring
state
that
I
think
we
talked
about
in
2019.
D
You
know
that's
it's
interesting
where
you
know
I'm
you
know,
while
you're
speaking
I'm
trying
to
google
around,
because
you
know
at
least
in
you
know,
cloud
native
land
there
seems
to
be.
You
know,
security
incidents
pop
up.
You
know
people
like
crypto,
jacking
or
crypto
miner
things,
I'm.
I
would
be
surprised
if
the
javascript
community
wasn't
kind
of
hit
by
folks
trying
to
somehow
mine
or
do
something
illicit
potentially
with
crypto.
D
I
mean
we've
done
some
research
at
the
linux
foundation
that
we
published
a
little
bit
late
last
year
about
kind
of
the
kind
of
the
problem
of
you
know
what
are
truly
the
most
widely
used
packages.
You
know
in
different
open
source.
You
know,
programming,
language
communities
right,
you
know
not
only
you
know
java
and
you
know
go,
but
you
know
javascript
and
you
know
javascript
was
highlighted
where
you
know.
D
If
I
recall
there
was,
you
know,
you
could
always
look
at
like
downloads
as
a
metric
right,
but
that's
not
necessarily
telling
you
the
full
story
behind
the
scenes,
the
potential
of
packages
being
used
by
companies-
and
you
know
we
actually
partnered
with
a
couple
of
sca
vendors
out
there
to
kind
of
get
some
data.
You
know
from
them
to
kind
of
expose.
You
know
what's
actually
being
used
behind
the
firewall,
and
you
know
I
kind
of
remember
some
of
the
javascript.
D
You
know
javascript's
a
very
kind
of
unique
community
community
where
people
like
create,
like
you
know
I
don't
know
like-
is
array
package.
It's
like
a
one-liner
and
you're.
Just
like
cool
like
it
sounds
super
useful,
but
there's
a
lot
of
packages.
I
think
I
think
in
particular
was
like
minimist
and
maybe
low
dash.
There
was
a
couple
of
them
that
you
know
was
what
like
top
10
most
widely
used,
and
then
you
look
at
it's
like
they
haven't,
had
a
release
in
over
a
year.
D
Does
that
mean
they're
super
stable
or
no
one's
paying
attention
anymore,
and
and-
and
this
is
not
good
right-
no
one's
responding.
Any
security
issues,
so
I
think
you
know
we
highlighted
a
lot
of
those.
You
know
issues
in
in
that
report,
at
least
in
the
javascript
community,
where
there's
a
lot
of
widely
used
packages
that
seem
to
work
but
they're,
not
really
actively
maintained.
C
I
think
yes,
chris
mentioned,
I
think
most
of
the
vulnerabilities
are
in
npm
and
the
packages,
but
I
would
like
to
talk
about
not
only
javascript
but
the
security
programming
world.
In
general,
I
was
reading
a
risk-based
security
magazine
and
he
was
saying
that
the
number
of
records
of
data
exposed
in
2020,
like
in
general,
the
data
exposed,
was
36
billion
in
2020.
So
it's
like
36
billion
is
such
a
huge
number
to
compare
it
like
there's
eight
billion
people
in
the
world.
C
B
C
I
don't
know
if
you
remember
that
all,
but
it
was
basically
three
teenagers
that
attacked
the
most
of
the
famous
people
on
the
planet,
like
elon,
musk,
barack
obama,
joe
biden,
good
gaze,
jeff,
bezos,
warren
buffet,
kim
kardashian,
like
all
the
twitter
accounts,
and
they
were
like
scamming
people
for
bitcoin,
and
it
was
just
crazy
to
see
that,
and
also
I'm
sure,
I'm
mentioning
this,
because
I'm
sure
twitter
uses
javascript
somehow,
but
this
attack
was
yeah
was
not
like
was
like
a
social
attack.
C
B
It
was
really
a
good
reminder
that
it
doesn't
matter
really
what
programming
language
or
stack
you're
using
people
are
always
going
to
be
the
weakest
link
in
the
security
chain,
and
so
you
really
have
to
train
that
aspect
of
your
your
organization
as
well.
C
Yeah
and
it's
always
advisable
to
there's
like
two
things,
so
the
two
components
on
security
one
is
to
have
like
prevention,
like,
for
example,
always
use
two
factor
authentications
for
everything
for
most
of
the
thing,
and
the
second
part
would
be
to
like
to
have
the
detection
capabilities
to
rapidly
react
like
the
red
button
to
press
the
red
button.
If
there
is
an
attack
on
your
software
or
in
javascript
or
in
your
application
like
to
rapidly
shut
that
down
or
try
to
fix
it
or
whatever
like
it
makes
a
big
difference.
C
So
I
think
security
is
composed
by
those
two
parts:
prevention
and
rapidly
like
reaction
of
possible
attacks.
B
Yeah
absolutely
and
one
kind
of
major
piece
kind
of
bringing
it
back
to
to
maybe
more
javascript
slash
npm
specific
issues
was
one
thing
that
we
were
seeing.
A
lot
in
2020
is
kind
of
supply,
chain,
hacks
or
supply
chain
attacks.
B
Where
you
know
you
can
kind
of
squat
on
a
package
name
or
an
organization
name
in
npm.
That
looks
like
maybe
something
that's
extremely
popular,
maybe
a
very
popular
company
and
then
publish
a
lot
of
malicious
packages
to
that,
and
the
problem
is
that
I
think
it
kind
of
goes
to
npm
being
so
like.
If
you
look
at
your
dependency
tree
for
any
small
project,
even
the
dependency
tree
is
not
something
that
you're
just
going
to
to
quickly
have
a
glance
at
and
make
sure
everything's.
B
Okay,
it's
very,
very
deep,
sometimes
and
there's
a
lot
of
packages
that
you
just
have
no
idea.
Why
they're
there
or
what
brought
them
in
but
they're
there,
and
so
there
was
some
research
where
researchers
actually
created
some
some
official
looking
packages
published
some
malicious
code
that
quote-unquote
malicious
that
just
reached
out
to
their
dns
servers
and
and
hit
them
saying
yeah.
We
were
installed
somewhere
and
you
know
they
got
a
lot
of
hits
on
that,
because
it's
something
that
you
you
don't
think
of
too
much
and
you
don't.
B
B
B
So
we
brought
we
talked
about
this
a
lot
on
stage
at
the
conference
and
kind
of
the
bottom
line
that
we
left
with
there
was
that
there's
been
a
lot
of
good
progress,
but
we
still
have
a
long
way
to
go
as
a
community
to
make
things
more
inclusive
for
everyone,
and
this
might
be
a
little
bit
tougher
to
talk
about,
given
that
we've
all
just
kind
of
been
you
know
sitting
in
our
basements
for
the
last
year.
B
But
what,
if
anything,
have
you
seen
as
changing
it
to
or
progressing
towards
that
goal
of
a
more
diverse
and
inclusive
culture
in
javascript
in
2020.
D
E
And
you
know
liz
and-
and
others
can
speak
to
this,
but
you
know
most,
you
know
a
lot
of
women
have
kids
and
they
have
to
take
care
of
their
kids
when
they're
at
home,
and
that
can
be
that
that's
a
that's
a
responsibility
they
always
have
historically,
and
I
don't
think
it's
changed.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
I
you
know,
I'm
I'm
looking
for
kind
of
I'm
looking
for
resilience
really
is
what
that.
E
That's
that
that's
what
I'm
always
looking
for
these
days
like
who
has
resilience,
and
you
know,
and
what
is
resilience
and-
and
I
see
a
lot
of
resilience
in
in
the
communities
of
women
who
are
developers
and
and-
and
I
so
appreciate
that-
and
it
just
shows
how
hard
they
have
to
work
just
to
get.
You
know
just
to
stay,
even
I
mean
so
much
harder
than
I
have
to
work,
and
you
know
and-
and
I
just
so
respect
you
know
that
aspect
of
the
community.
E
Where
I
mean
I
cover
kubernetes,
I've
covered
the
kubernetes
community,
you
know
quite
a
bit
and
and
that's
what
I
see
there
I
mean
I
I
see
there.
You
know
a
real
tight-knit
group
of
women
who
are
actually
you
know
without
doubt
leaders
there
and,
and
I
and
and
and
that's
what
I
just
hope
to
continue
to
see
in
the
javascript
community
is,
is
you?
Maybe
they
don't
have
women?
Don't
have
the
numbers,
but
they
certainly
are.
They
certainly
show
a
community
is
all
about,
and
you
know,
and
their
leadership
is
critical.
C
Yeah,
I
I
agree
with
alex,
I
think
in
2018.
We
were
like
in
a
positive
note.
It
was
like
yeah.
There
is
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done,
but
we're
working
on
this
there's
company
working
on
this
there's
like
a
lot
of
communities
working
on
this,
so
maybe
in
2020,
will
improve,
but
then
nobody
could
predict
in
2020
like
so.
C
I
think
it
actually,
unfortunately
has
gotten
worse
the
inclusion,
because
inclusion
and
diversity
in
general,
because
also
by
what
alex
mentioned,
like
women,
take
care
of
the
kids
and
not
only
that
like
finding
jobs
and
in
general,
like
for
women,
is
like
a
little
bit
harder.
Also
for
people
like
under
underrepresented
minorities,
black
people,
trans
people,
like
is
super
hard,
and
it's
not
only
the
pandemic.
It's
also
like
a
change
in
culture
like
there
is
a
big
cultural
stuff
underneath
that
it
needs
to
be
addressed.
C
So
at
the
end,
inclusion
is
super
important
to
have
a
better
world,
like
I
mentioned
in
2018
that
that
people
that
are
creating
software
and
technology
in
general
are
creating
the
future,
and
we
want
a
future
that
is
inclusive,
so
so,
unfortunately,
the
pandemic
and
2020.
I
think
it
didn't
help
at
all
for
for
the
inclusion.
C
D
I
you
know
the
2020
was
a
crazy
year.
You
know,
overall,
I
think
one
silver
lining
is,
I
do
think
the
emphasis
of
virtual
events
have
at
least
made
it
a
little
bit
more
inclusive
for
people
to
attend
all
over
the
world.
You
know
you
know
geographically,
which
historically,
not
everyone
could
go
fly
to
montreal.
You
know
for
the
open
gs
event
and
I
think
one
one
to
end,
maybe
with
a
little
bit
more
positive
note
is
you
know,
I
think,
in
the
future.
D
Almost
all
events
will
kind
of
have
like
a
virtual
or
hybrid
type
model.
So
I
think
in
the
future.
Hopefully
that
makes
things
a
little
bit
more
inclusive
for
people
you
know
to
attend
all
over,
regardless
of
all
the
systemic
issues
that
are
in
society
about
you
know.
You
know
women
and
and
others
that
kind
of
face
issues.
D
So
so
I
mean
maybe
that's
the
silver
lining,
at
least
for
us,
we've
seen
our
attendance
from
countries
and
other
geographies
that
tremendously
you
never
attend
a
kubecon
show
up
at
an
event,
not
much,
and
hopefully
that's
been
at
least
a
similar
case
in
in
opengs.
B
D
But
I
think
everyone's
just
been
distracted
the
last
year
or
so
investments.
I
mean
one,
one
small
thing
that
we
did
at
least
in
cncf
is
you
know,
there's
kind
of
a
saying
like
if
you
don't
like
you
know,
measure
it.
You
know
you're
like
how
are
you
going
to
potentially
change
change
things
right,
so
we've
started
to
publish
in
our
annual
reports.
At
least
you
know
the
kind
of
diversity
makeup
of
our
staff,
of
the
technical
leadership
and
so
on.
D
So
you
know
at
least
it
throws
out
a
benchmark
to
kind
of
look
at
to
see
how
we
can
kind
of
gauge
and
improve
ourselves
over
time,
and
we
historically
haven't
done
that
at
least
within
within
our
community.
I
know
the
js
community
tends
to
be
a
little
bit
more
progressive
on
that
front,
but
yeah
just
just
an
idea:
yeah
yeah.
C
So
you
start
with
the
little
steps
and
then
it
creates
like
snowball
and
now
yeah.
So
so
there's
also
good
things.
I'm
not
yeah!
I'm
not
saying
that.
Oh,
it
was
so
horrible
for
diversity,
but
but
it's
still
a
lot
of
room
for
improvements.
Like
last
year,
I
asked
how
many
women
were
in
the
room
and
there
were
like
five
or
six
women.
It
was
like
hundreds
of
people
so,
and
it's
always
like
that,
and
people
of
color
or
minorities
there's
always
like
very
little
so
so
yeah.
B
Yeah
absolutely
and
kind
of
relating
to
conferences.
I
do
think
that
one
good
thing
that
comes
out
of
the
the
year
that
we've
had
is
you
know,
conferences
have
gotten
remote
or
gone
remote,
so
we
can
have
more
people
joining
and
usually
they're.
You
know
cheaper
or
maybe
free,
depending
on
on
the
conference.
B
So
it's
much
more
approachable
the
same
thing
with
like
meetups,
so
meetups
have
gone
online
and
as
an
example,
I
attended
a
vim
meet
up
from
berlin
and
I
was
just
like
everyone
else,
because
everybody
else
was
just
remote.
I
wasn't
just
kind
of
you
know
the
guy
on
the
tv
over
in
the
corner.
B
I
was
I
felt
like
I
was
there
and
present
with
everyone
so
that
that's
really
cool
being
able
to
kind
of
have
everyone
on
an
equal
footing,
remotely
joining
and
learning
together,
and
that
also
like
we've.
We've
had
this
rush
towards
remote
work
and
remote
life
and
that
may
be
sticking
around
beyond
the
pandemic,
which
is
a
good
thing,
because
I
do
think
it
opens
up
the
ability
for
a
more
diverse
hiring
pool.
B
So
you
can
hire
from
geographically
diverse
places
as
well
and
it
really
lets
you
find
the
talent
that
you
want
and
need
that
maybe
isn't
willing
to
to
relocate
to
the
bay
area.
So
that's
that's
good,
so
yeah.
I
think
that
those
are
all
great
things
that
happened
from
this,
but
I
think
kind
of
the
the
big
takeaway
was
there
was,
you
know,
maybe
maybe
some
baby
steps
with
that
and
it's
not
every
every
lifetime.
B
E
Oh
definitely-
and
you
know,
as
we
see
over
time
with
javascript
it-
you
know
it,
it
had
some
early
evolution
and
it's
been
pretty
much
straight
across
the
board
in
terms
of
its
dominance
for
the
past
several
years,
but
it
hasn't
changed
the
complexity
for
how
to
for
how
to
use
it
and
now,
with
the
browser
being
such
a
critical
part
of
you
know
of
any
web
application
really
you're
starting
to
see
just
you
know,
just
a
deeper
level
of
complexity.
That's
that's
required.
E
I
don't
know
a
lot
about
web
assembly,
but
I'm
curious
on
how
that's
going
to
affect
the
landscape
over
time
in
and
then
also
when
you're
also
thinking
about
typescript,
you
know
typescript
is
a
superset
of
javascript,
and
so
that
adds
another
level
of
complexity
that
you
need
to
think
about.
So
there's
there's
no
doubt
that
the
no
code
movement
has
muscle,
but
it
doesn't
seem
to
have
the
muscle
that
really
you
need
for
the
the
complexities
that
we
see
in
in
the
architectures
that
developers
are
building.
C
So
in
low
code
I
had
one
experience
that
really
impacted
me.
So
basically
local
is
like,
if
I
I
was
reading,
and
it
says
that
it's
basically
a
visual
way
to
code
and
it's
very
friendly
for
beginners
and
for
kids
and
all
that,
and
I
want
to
share
experience.
I
met
at
the
last
js
columbia.
We
did
like
a
couple
of
years
ago.
There
was
a
kid
like
he
was
12
years
old
and
he
was
coding
in
front
of
500
people
from
in
scratch.
C
There
was
like
this
is
very
popular
like
this
game
scratch
and
then,
when,
when
you
just
move
blocks-
and
you
start
creating
like
code
and
there's-
and
I
think
it
was
fantastic
to
see
kids
and
also
in
in
in
montreal
2018,
we
see
this
little
girl
like
ellie
ellie,
and
she
was
also
coding
with
robots
and
I
think
local
no
code.
Definitely
it
helps
a
lot
like
beginners.
It
helps
a
lot
of
kids
because
it
makes
it
fun
it
makes
it
entertaining.
C
C
B
Yeah,
it
really
helps
businesses
or
users
get
ideas
from
just
an
idea
into
you
know,
maybe
a
at
this
time
like
a
simple
prototype
or
a
simple
mvp
of
what
they
actually
want
to
do,
and
it's
a
really
easy
way
to
do
that
without
having
to
learn
a
lot
of
code
and
from
from
just
a
learning
standpoint
like
you
said
for
kids,
you
know
without
getting
into
the
semantics
and
getting
bogged
down
and
all
of
like
the
logic
of
the
how
a
code
a
program
is
structured.
B
You
know,
if
statements,
all
these
blocks,
scoping
things
like
that.
It
just
lets
you
focus
on
thinking.
Logically,
and
if
this
happens,
then
this
should
happen.
Otherwise
this
should
happen
and
kind
of
going
through
that
flow.
It's
a
really
easy
way
to
to
learn
the
mentality
behind
coding
without
really
diving
into
complex
code,
and
then
that
can
translate
into
javascript
perl
like
any
language
and.
C
B
Absolutely,
and
from
a
low
code
standpoint
like
having
a
little
bit
of
code,
another
piece
that
that
might
be
kind
of
taking
the
world
by
storm
is
the
jam
stack
which
might
be
kind
of
low
low
back-end
code
for
front-end
developers
chris.
What
are
your
thoughts
on
jam
stack?
Is
it?
Is
it
a
thing.
D
I
mean
like
from
a
personal
usage
perspective.
Like
you
know,
we
use
a
lot
of
netlify.
I
personally
use
a
lot
of
netlify,
but
I
haven't
kind
of
you
know,
explored
other
aspects
of
of
kind
of
the
the
jam
stack
to
kind
of
truly
make
it
useful
to
maybe
like
replace
an
existing.
You
know
application,
I
don't
know
like
like
an
old
blog
or
something
and
with
the
jam
stack
equivalent
and
so
on.
So
I
mean
I
think
it
is
a.
D
I
think
it
is
a
thing
we
are
seeing
kind
of
a
bit
of
usage
within
our
kind
of
cloud
native
ecosystem,
but
it's
still
very
like
nascent
from
from.
From
my
perspective,
I
do
think
there's
a
lot
of
potential.
Basically
any
technology
that
simplifies
the
developer
experience
makes
it
easier
to
use
and
be
productive.
I
think
is
gonna
is
gonna.
D
Do
well,
especially
if
you're
not
like
required
to
learn
a
new
type
of
programming,
language
and
developer
experience
is
nailed
and
I
think
that's
what
jamstack
is
trying
to
do
by
taking
advantage
of
the
huge
javascript
ecosystem
by
also
and
also
trying
to
offer
kind
of
a
unique
kind
of
serverless
type
offering
for
you
know
developers.
So
they
don't
kind
of
have
to
deal
with
all
the
all
the
stuff,
but
we're
definitely
a
lot
of
innovation.
You're,
seeing
a
lot
of
companies
doing
jam
stack
offerings.
D
I
think
just
this
week,
like
cloudflare
announced,
like
their
pages
thing,
is
like
out
of
beta
now,
which
is
kind
of
a
jam
stack
based
offering
netlife
continues
to
grow.
I
think
you'll
see
more
and
more
clouds
offer
jam,
stack
style
solutions
which
will
in
turn
increase
adoption,
but
I
think
the
jam
stack
is
focused
on
the
right
aspect
of
making
it
easy
like
making
it
easier
for
developers
to
actually
be
you
know
effective
and
so
on.
E
Jamstack
is
getting
a
lot
of
attention
from
us
in
in
our
coverage
of
the
space.
Richard
mcmanus
has
been
writing
a
lot
about
jam
stack
and
there's
been
some
interesting
stories
about.
You
know
what
jam
stack
represents
and
matt
billman
who's.
One
of
the
founders
of
of
netlify
calls.
Basically
they
brought
the
browser,
the
you
know.
You
know
a
new
runtime
really
and
for
him
you
know.
E
You
know
that
have
increasingly
been
capable
through
javascript
engines.
You
know
like
open
source
va
from
google
map
talks
about
that
and
there's
so
many
powerful
browser
apis
to
enable
services-
and
you
know
you
can
do
local
caching,
location
services,
identity,
services,
there's
so
much
you
can
do
and
and
and
so
I
can't
see
why
you
know-
jam
stack-
would
would
slow
down
at
all,
especially
with
the
serverless.
E
You
know
storage
to
start
unfold
from
there,
but
that's
going
to
put
that's
going
to
bring
the
complexity
somewhere.
I
I
mean,
I
think
that's
that's
the
big
question:
where
does
that
complexity
go?
B
Yeah,
absolutely,
I
think
that
they,
it
kind
of
builds
layers
on
top
of
that
complexity.
So
it
makes
things
more
approachable
to
me
as
a
self-proclaimed
front-end
developer.
I
can
really
take
take
charge
of
an
entire
stack
by
not
needing
to
learn
how
to
properly
configure
a
web
server
and
a
database,
and
you
know
all
of
that
stuff.
It
can
all
just
be
wrapped
up
into
an
aws
like
offering,
and
then
I
can
just
learn
how
to
work
with
within
their
stack
and
then
that
is
itself
super
complex.
B
So
then
I
can
work
on
a
layer
on
top
of
that
with,
like
you,
know,
nutify
functions
and
things
like
that,
where
it's
just
exposing
in
a
simpler
way,
the
things
that
I
want,
and
so
I
can
build
more
of
the
application
by
myself
and
have
a
better
understanding
of
it
and
an
easier
way
to
talk
about
and
to
share
that
with
others
without
having
to
worry
about
all
of
the
minutia
of
actually
getting
it
running.
B
B
I
was
going
to
say
it
does
seem
like
we
are
seeing
a
lot
of
that.
We've
mentioned
netlify
as
being
a
big
jam's
deck
big
in
the
james
tech
space.
There's
also,
you
know
like
gatsby,
which
is
like
a
more
full-fledged
solution
for
developing
like
an
application,
a
web
application
in
like
a
fully
enclosed
environment,
and
then
we
have
other
ones
like
vercell,
which
is
you
know
the
it
provides
the
the
back
end
and
the
tooling
that
you
need
for
for
that
serverless
component.
But
then
it
has
specialized
tooling
like
next.
B
C
Yeah,
I
think
jam
stack
is
great
because
of
certain
reason
it
provides
like
a
very
developer
experience,
performance
security,
especially
lower
cost
and
greater
scalability,
and
it's
successful
because
of
two
terms.
Basically,
one
is
pre-rendering,
which
means
that
everything
is
already
rendered.
So
when
a
user
make
a
request,
it
doesn't
have
to
go
to
a
database
and
get
an
answer
so
because
sites
can
be
just
served
directly
for
obsidian.
C
So
it's
super
fast
and
cheap,
but,
as
you
said,
there's
a
lot
of
great
tools
that
gatsby
nestled,
five
and
xjs
that
are
using
jam
stack,
and
so
I
think
it's
going
to
definitely
be
increasing.
But
at
the
same
time
it's
important
to
take
into
account
that
gem
style
has
a
few
problems,
because
sites
are
great
as
long
as
they're
built
with
text
and
images
explicitly
because
jump
start
is
for
static
content,
because
everything
is
pre-rendered
right.
C
So,
but
as
soon
as
your
site
requires
like
dynamic
features,
it
gets
potentially
a
little
bit
more
difficult.
It
has
like
more
problems.
Another
problem
is
that
if
you
want
to
take
content
or
small
changes,
it
has
to
be
by
coding.
It
has
to
pre-render
the
whole
site
again
and
another
problem
I
found
is
like
it
relies
heavily
on
third
parties
and
also
api.
So,
for
example,
if
you
api
on
a
third
party
goes
line,
your
site
will
probably
go
down
as
well.
C
So
at
the
end,
jumpstart
has
a
lot
of
great
things,
but
it
also
has
it's
not
so
good
things.
So,
as
always,
it
depends
on
what
you
need.
So
if
you
need
like
a
static
site
with
a
lot
of
text
images,
for
example,
a
big
ecommerce,
blog
post
or
no
dot
dot,
which
is
a
site
we
created
in
note
source
for
node.js
news,
so
jamstack
is
absolutely
great,
but
if
you
need
like
a
huge
application
with
a
lot
of
dynamic
content,
very
complex
architecture,
you
may
need
something
else.
C
E
There
was
a
little
bit
of
a
turf
war
at
the
end
of
last
year
between
matt
billman
and
matt.
Mullenweg
jamstack
compared
to
wordpress,
and
you
know
and
and
matt's
point
is
that
you
know
wordpress
now
taps
into
many
of
the
same
front-end
technologies.
That
jamsec
does
that.
That
has
a
it
has
a
rest
api
that
matt
says
is
awesome,
a
graphql
api
and
you
know
you
can
use
it
decoupled.
E
There
are
things
like
it
talks
about
frontity
that
allows
you
to
build
wordpress
with
servers,
pre-rendered
using
react,
there's
just
a
lot
of
ways
to
do
integrations
and
so
yeah
I
mean
the
the
big
issue.
I've
had
I
mean
I
was
like.
I
fell
in
love
with
these
static
platforms
several
years
ago,
when
I
was
considering
what
to
use,
for
you
know
our
content
management
system,
and
I'm
like
I
don't.
I
think
I
would
spend
like
95
of
my
time
teaching.
You
know
teaching
people
how
to
use
use
an
editor.
E
You
know
with
a
static
site,
just
you
know,
and
so
it
just
was
like
just
not
doable
so
for
developers.
I
think
it's
fine.
It
goes
back
to
to
that.
You
know
no
code,
part
of
the
world,
probably
where
I'm
more
hypomorphic
in,
but
you
know
I
mean
I
think,
there's
a
lot
that
it
just
kind
of
shows
almost
like
the
the
similarities,
but
real
kind
of
like
complexities
that
come
when
you're
trying
to
choose
between
these
platforms.
I.
B
Yeah-
and
I
do
think
that
that
that
friendly
I'll
call
it
a
fight
but
the
friendly
fight
between
the
mats
and
you
know,
wordpress
versus
the
jam
stack.
I
do
think
that
that
lends
a
lot
of
goodwill
and
and
goodwill
to
the
ideas
of
the
jam
stack,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
those
features
being
built
into
wordpress,
which
does
power
like
30
of
the
internet,
or
something
like
that
and
giving
them
a
a
road
to
get
to
those
jam
stack
ideas
while
still
staying.
B
You
know
within
the
comfortable
wordpress
wordpress
platform
and
the
cms
that
they're
used
to
is
really
powerful
and
really
speaks
a
lot
to
the
ideas
that
that
is
a
focus
for
for
that
community,
so
kind
of
to
to
change
topics
a
little
bit.
I
wanted
to
get
to
one
more
question
before
we
kind
of
wrap
up
here
and
that's
just
getting
talking
about
javascript
itself.
So
javascript
is
it's
continuing
to
lead.
B
I
think
we
have
a
slide
to
show
with
some
language
stats,
and
that
shows
that
for
the
past
several
years,
javascript
has
just
been
the
number
one
language
and
that's
why
we're
here?
B
Talking
about
it,
it's
obviously
a
language
that
we
really
like,
and
it's
something
that
really
no
matter
what
language
or
what
kind
of
developer
you
you
claim
to
be
if
your
product
or
your
app
touches
the
internet
or
the
web
in
any
way,
you
probably
have
javascript
in
there
too,
so
it's
just
kind
of
an
add-on
to
every
other
language
which
is
pretty
cool.
But
do
we
see
that
trend
continuing?
Do
we
see
anything
shaking
this
line
going
into
2021
and
beyond.
E
Well,
I
think
we
should
give
redmond
credit
they've
been
doing
this
since
2012
and
and
they've
been
citing
typescript
and
and
that's
to
me
the
most
interesting
aspect
of
this
data.
Here
I
mean
look
at
that
typescript
line,
I
mean
look
at
look
at
that
ascent,
I
mean,
and
it
just
keeps
going
up
and
up
and
up
and
up
yeah
and
I
think
it
reached
into
the
top.
It
did
reach
into
the
top
10
this
year
and
it
surpassed
ruby.
B
E
And
I
think
there's
some
other
things
to
look
at
I
mean
java
java
dropped
and
that
gave
python
the
opera
you
know
has
given
the
python
the
opportunity
to
rise
up
to
the
top
there,
and
you
know
python
is
you
know
I
think
we
were
talking
about
in
another
call,
how
python
is
perceived
as
a
little
bit
easier
to
use
than
javascript.
E
So
I
think
that's
something
will
be
something
to
look
at
is
like,
and
now
you
know,
I
think
there
was
a
question
from
the
crowd
about
ai
and
javascript
and
yeah
python
has
been
reigning
supreme.
You
know
in
the
data
science
community,
and
so
you
know,
that's
something.
I'd
be
curious.
To
look
at
is
how
you
know
the
javascript
plays
in
this
space
in
comparison
to
python.
B
Yeah-
and
I
think
that
that
does
kind
of
speak
to
what
might
unseat
javascript
is,
would
it
be
something
like
a
wasm
compiled
language
or
webassembly?
B
Would
it
be
something
that
runs
in
the
browser
would
obviously
have
to
be
something
that
runs
in
the
browser
too
to
get
past
javascript?
I
think
at
this
point,
but
could
a
webassembly
language
do
that,
or
would
it
be
something
like
typescript,
where
it's
still
just
you
know
javascript,
but
it's
still
the
javascript
that
you're
familiar
with,
but
with
some
additional
types
bolted
on,
and
how
would
how
are
tools
changing
to
to
grow
with
this?
This
environment,
where
we
have
this
ability
to
to
develop
kind
of
with
other
languages.
C
Well,
I
think
thai
script,
as
we
see,
is
obviously
like
going
growing
up
a
lot.
Incredibly,
even
in
2018,
I
said
tyson
is
going
to
grow
a
lot.
That
was
a
good
prediction
I
have,
but
I
couldn't
predict
anything
else,
but
I
don't
think
thai
script
will
replace
or
overcome
or
overrun
like
javascript.
C
I
think
javascript
will
always
be
for
many
many
years
more
to
come
will
always
be
the
first
one,
for
example,
and
I
think
maybe
at
some
point
the
language
itself,
javascript
itself
are
going
to
adapt
some
things
that
from
thai
script.
So,
for
example,
what
happened
with
coffeescript
like
coffeescript,
used
to
be
very
popular,
but
then
javascript
like
adopted
things
from
coffeescript
and
copyscript
died.
So
if
that
happens
like
javascript
start,
the
language
itself
is
start
getting
like
adapting
things
from
typescript.
C
B
Yeah,
definitely,
I
think
that
one
thing
that
might
be
that
javascript
might
be
taking
a
hit
on
right
now
is
performance
and
it
seems
like
a
lot
of
even
javascript,
tooling,
is
being
rewritten
in
other
languages
like
go
and
rust
because
of
the
perceived
performance
increases
that
you
get
from
that
just
in
terms
of
like
you
know,
bundling
a
site
or
things
like
that.
Things
like
es
build,
which
is
written
in,
go,
take
advantage
of
of
that
speed
to
to
really
accelerate
development
workflows.
B
So
do
you
think
that
that
that
speed
of
of
writing
things
in
javascript
could
hinder
it
going
forward
as
like
a
an
option
for
writing?
Tooling.
D
D
The
line
we're
even
seeing
that
within
our
community,
where
the
majority
of
stuff
is
in
golang-
and
you
know,
there's
kind
of
this
odd
fascination
with
new
and
shiny
things.
You
know
things
like
rustling,
you
know
rust
as
a
as
a
program
language
that
also
has
kind
of
very
unique
performance
characteristics
compared
to
you
know,
golang,
you
know
so
we're
seeing
it
now,
where
a
lot
of
our
tools
are.
You
know
people
are
joking,
oh
we're
going
to
rewrite
this
in
russ,
because
it's
a
little
bit
faster
and
better.
D
To
maintain,
so
I
mean
it'll
be
interesting.
I
think
you
know
it
truly
depends
kind
of
you
know.
Languages
sometimes
have
their
own
unique
niches
and
so
on
you
know
it's
very
rare,
to
kind
of
see
something
like
that's
truly,
maybe
general
purpose.
You
know,
I
think
you
know
to
alex's
point
python
seems
to
have
carved
out
a
niche
for
very
beginner
friendly
and
also
kind
of
dominates
the
kind
of
data
science,
ai
ml
side
of
the
house.
D
You
know
javascript,
obviously
front
end,
but
also
a
little
bit
of
back
end
with
node
and
so
on.
But
you
know
on
the
back
end,
sometimes
people
are
look
at
other
things
right.
You
know
like
rust
and
and
then
go
so
I
think
you
know
over
time,
like
people
are
going
to
use
all
multiple
things,
and
you
know
I
think
it's
truly
going
to
depend
on
how
easy
you
know
the
language
is
for
its
kind
of
general
purpose
and
and
wide
wide
usage
overall.
E
D
Answers
answers
the
question
too
much,
but,
like
you
know
what
are
kids?
What
is
that?
What
it
look,
what
are
people?
What
are
kids
like
first
programming
language
right
like
is
it?
Is
it
javascript
these?
No,
I
think
mostly
python
is
probably
where
a
lot
of
folks
start
start
out,
at
least
at
university.
D
B
Just
be
so
simple
yeah,
I
know
I
think
that
it's
cool
that
all
of
this
exists,
because
it
gives
us
these
like
a
way
to
do
straightforward,
javascript
in
a
way
that
handles
you
know
most
of
your
use
cases,
but
then,
when
you
need
a
lot
of
power
or
a
lot
of
or
a
different
way
of
organizing
and
thinking
about
things,
you
know
you
can
write
in
a
rust,
compiled
language
or
sorry,
a
wasm
compiled
language
and
really
have
more
of
like
an
application
level
workflow
in
the
browser,
I'm
thinking
of
things
like
figma,
which
is,
I
think,
compiles
compiled
from
awesome
and
really
feels
like
a
desktop
application.
B
That's
running
in
your
browser
and
it's
it's
just
really
cool
that
you
have
all
of
these
options
available
to
us
and
it
really
grows
the
platform
as
a
whole.
As
just
being
this
place,
where
you
can
write
your
simple
forms,
you
can
write
your
simple
blog
posts.
You
can
write
full-on
video
games
and
you
can
write
your
your
design
tools
all
in
it,
which
is
just
really
cool
to
to
have
one
platform
that
can
handle
it
all.
E
D
It'll
be
fascinating
to
watch,
because
you
know,
I
think
you
know
there.
If
you
kind
of
look
at
the
trends
here
is,
I
think
you
know.
Javascript
obviously
is
a
popular
language,
but
was
it
popular
because
of
it
was
just
a
very
easy
language
to
learn
and
use,
or
was
it
because
the
browser
was
basically
everywhere
and
kind
of
became
like
a
new
virtual
machine
that.
D
You
know
you
look
at
typescript,
I'm
like
you
know,
maybe
maybe
people
really
want
types
and
then-
and
you
know
that's
that's
what's
going
on
here,
but
you
know,
I
think,
maybe
over
time
javascript,
you
know
as
a
language,
maybe
is
less
widely
used,
but
the
browser
runtime
that
takes
advantage
of
you
know
wasm
essentially
running
you
know,
inside
of
like
v8
or
any
of
the
different
webassembly
runtimes
we'll
have
that
equivalent
deployment
model
where
the
wherever
the
browser
runs.
Webassembly
is
going
to
run
and
basically
use
any
programming
language.
B
It
really
is
a
happy
little
accident
that
we're
here
talking
about
javascript
right
now,
rather
than
you
know
talking
about
how
cool
our
java
applets
are.
So
that's
a
happy
accident
for
sure.
Another
thing
that
came
out
in
2020
or
that
reached
1.0
in
2020
was
dino,
which
is
kind
of
a
competitor
to
the
node
runtime
in
a
lot
of
ways
where
it
takes
a
different
look
at
the
security
model
of
node
and
how
packages
are
created
and
and
consumed
by
within
the
project.
B
It
doesn't
use
common
js
at
all
because
it
was
created
in
a
post,
come
in
js
world
with
where
ecmascript
modules
are
part
of
the
language.
And
do
you
see
that
being
a
competitor
to
the
the
node
ecosystem.
C
Yeah
it
doesn't
it
does,
it
doesn't
get
a
lot
of
attention
like
it.
Definitely
like
I
mean
it
was
created
by
the
same
creator
of
node,
and
it's
like
it's
funny.
No
then,
like
the
same
word,
the
same
letters,
but
no,
I
thought
I
thought
it
was
going
to
have
actually
a
bigger
adoption,
but
I
haven't
seen
that
I
haven't
seen
like
a
very
widely
adoption
of
deno
of
dino.
Then
I
don't
know
how
to
pronounce
it
but
but
yeah.
I
don't
know
what
chris
has
seen
so
far.
B
It's
not
something
that
I've
played
with
too
much
either,
but
it
is
something
that
I'm
keeping
an
eye
on,
because
I
do
like
the
idea
of
being
able
to
write
closer
to
actual
javascript
rather
than
you
know,
requiring
a
bundler
and
all
of
these
things,
and
all
of
that
is
also
being
solved
in
node.
I
think
with
you
know,
es
modules
are
now
available
in
node,
and
so
you
can
write
that
as
well
and
browsers
understand
them.
B
So
we
are
getting
away
from
this
kind
of
we
have
to
compile
it
to
get
the
the
code
to
run
anywhere
back
to.
We
can
just
write
it
and
run
it
and
I'll
still
probably
be
writing
it
in
typescript
and
have
that
compiler.
But
it
is
cool
that
that
we're
all
moving
forward
towards
these
standards-based
solutions,
which
is
which
is
pretty
cool,
and
I
think
that
dino
and
es
modules
in
node
really
push
that
forward.
C
Definitely,
I
think
the
idea
behind
dino
is
very
good,
like
he
has
a
very
good
approach
and
like
it's,
it
seems
that
was
very
well
built,
but
I
think
one
of
the
main
problems
is
that
node,
it's
so
popular
like
it's
that
it's
so
hard
to
get
over
node
like
like.
If
I
have
a
huge
project
using
node,
what
would
I
change
to
dina?
I
even
know
it's
already
worked
right.
I
think
the
main
probably
is
like
no,
it's
already
very
popular,
but
you
know
like
the
the
infrastructure
and
the
way
dina
was
built.
B
Yeah
well
all
right:
let's
go
ahead
and
wrap
up
now
and
so
I'll
just
throw
to
each
of
you
real
quick
to
give
your
final
thoughts,
maybe
on
what
you're
excited
about
or
or
what
you
anticipate
seeing
as
we
go
into
2021
so
liz,
do
you
want
to
go
first.
C
Yeah
sure
so
definitely
after
2019.
I
think
I
cannot
predict
anything.
I
mean
2020
was
such
a
difficult
year
that
trying
to
predict
things
like
everything
can
change
tomorrow
like
who
knows
right,
but
I'm
very
excited
for
the
post
pandemic
world
and
to
see
I'm
very
excited
for
inclusion
and
diversity.
I'm
very
fan
of
that,
and
I
also
think
typescript
might
be
still
growing
up
a
little
bit
react
but
yeah
like
like
now
I'm
scared
of
making
predictions,
because
who
knows
what's
going
to
happen
right,
like
oh.
B
Yeah
alex,
do
you
want
to
go
next.
E
The
singularity
is
coming,
we
know
it's
coming,
it's
going
to
just
it's
inevitable.
For
that
one
language
I
mean
with
microsoft,
running
kind
of
the
world.
I
know
I
I'm
being
facetious
a
little
bit
here,
but
I
think
there's
just
a
definite
interesting
play
here,
that
microsoft
has
taken,
while
being
very
friendly
in
the
open
source
community.
There's
a
lot
of
there's
a
lot
of
history
with
microsoft
and
how
they
actually
do
like
to
operate.
E
So
I'm
I'm
just
very
curious
and
a
little
bit
skeptical
and
I
think,
that'll
give
rise
to
you
know
these.
These
competing
capabilities,
and
one
of
the
kind
of
interesting
dynamics
that
I'm
going
to
be
looking
at
is
is
is
how
we
think
about
web
architectures
and
the
standardization
of
web
architectures
over
time.
You
know
you
know
again,
quoting
richard.
E
You
know
he
wrote
a
story
about
what
web
components
and
the
polymer
project,
which
is
which
is
interesting
and
kind
of,
has
a
different
take
on
you
know
the
role
of
web
components
compared
to
you
know
what
you
see
from
from
you
know
the
the
from
the
frameworks
point
of
view.
So
you
know
I'm
looking
for
some.
E
You
know
some
change,
but
not
dramatic
change
but
I'll
be.
You
know
from
my
from
my
point
of
view.
It's
the
web
architectures
that
that
will
continue
to
shape
the
landscape
and
how
we
view
things.
D
Sure
I'll
be
quick,
two
two
things
I
think
one
we
kind
of
alluded
to
this,
I
think
you
know,
web
assembly
is
continue
to
kind
of
grow
as
an
option,
especially
as
it
matures
not
only
in
the
browser
but
outside
the
browser
and
other
kind
of
wasm
runtimes
environment.
You
know
the
wazzy
spec
is
of
all
things,
so
things
are
being
supported
to
kind
of
meet
those
those
needs
for
folks
that
are
running
out
of
browsers.
So
that's
to
me
that
was
a
simple
one.
D
I
think
that's
an
easy,
easy
prediction.
I
think
the
other
thing
that
you
know
given
someone
who's,
probably
built.
You
know
developer
tools,
for
you
know
over
half
of
his
career.
I
think
this
kind
of
modern
you
know,
let's
call
it
like
shared
developer
workspaces,
so
I
don't
know
if
you
played
with
github
code
spaces
or
git
pod,
as
example.
D
I
think
that's
going
to
kind
of
take
over
as
a
more
common
development
style
for
folks
where
you
know,
if
you're
already
on
github
and
you
go
open
up
and
get
you
know,
get
up
code
spaces
or
get
pod
in
one
click
and
have
everything
set
up
configured
people
are
going
to
use
it
right,
especially
new
contributors.
Imagine
going
to
a
repo
and
not
having
to
like
you
know,
figure
out
like
all
right.
How
does
this
thing
build?
D
How
do
I
set
up
if
you
actually
had
a
development
environment
that
will
be
built,
pre-built
and
load
up
vs
code
in
in
the
browser
on
the
fly
and
allow
you
to
contribute
with
very
little
setup?
I
think
it's
going
to
change
things
so,
whatever
we're
going
to
call
it
cloud
native
development
environments,
I
don't
know,
but
that's
going
to
be,
I
think
a
huge
thing,
especially
as
github
code
spaces
comes
out
of
beta
this
year.
I
think
it's
going
to
change
the
industry.
B
Yeah,
absolutely,
I
think
you
know
all
of
our
tooling
is
going
to
the
cloud
and
being
written
in
javascript
and
running
in
a
browser.
It's
really
quite
cool
to
see
and
I'll,
just
close
off
by
saying
that
you
know
we've
seen
so
many
cool
changes
with
javascript,
it
can
persevere
through
anything
even
a
pandemic,
and
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
what
we
do
in
2021
and
beyond.
So
I
just
want
to
thank
all
of
you
for
for
joining
me.
You
know
alex
liz
chris.
B
Thank
you
so
much
for
being
here
and
sharing
your
thoughts,
and
we
will
see
you
next
time.
Thank
you.