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From YouTube: Keynote: Restoring Balance in Technology: Lessons from the Indie Rock DIY Movement - Jenny Toomey
Description
Keynote: Restoring Balance in Technology: Lessons from the Indie Rock DIY Movement - Jenny Toomey, International Program Director, Technology and Society, Ford Foundation
Indie rocker and technology policy leader Jenny Toomey was an early proponent of the punk and indie DIY scene where musicians took more control of their content. Hear how waves of technology movements over time altered the distribution of power in society, and how citizens in open source communities can be activists for change.
Ford Foundation, Public Interest Technology: https://www.fordfoundation.org/campaigns/public-interest-tech/
New America, Public Interest Technology: https://www.newamerica.org/pit/
New America, PIT-UN: https://www.newamerica.org/pit-un/
Mozilla Fellows for Tech + Society: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships/fellows-for-tech-and-society/
Mozilla Fellowships: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships/
TechCongress: https://www.techcongress.io/
Ford Foundation, Critical Digital Infrastructure Research: https://www.fordfoundation.org/campaigns/critical-digital-infrastructure-research/
US Digital Response: https://www.usdigitalresponse.org/
Code for America Brigade Network: https://brigade.codeforamerica.org/
Code for America Community Fellowships: https://www.codeforamerica.org/programs/network/community-fellowship
The United States of Technologists: https://www.usoftech.org/
The Atlantic: “The Secret Startup That Saved the Worst Website in America” https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/07/the-secret-startup-saved-healthcare-gov-the-worst-website-in-america/397784/
A
A
A
So
jenny,
it's
an
honor
to
have
you
and
thanks
for
allowing
us
to
share
some
of
your
music
up
front.
That's
super
cool,
so
question.
You
know
I
grew
up
in
seattle
in
the
90s,
where
you
know,
grunge
was
big
and
feminist
punk,
but
for
those
who
don't
know,
tell
us
more
about
the
diy
music
scene
at
that
time
and
sort
of
that
digital
music
revolution.
B
Okay,
well,
I
grew
up
in
washington
dc,
which
is
credited
as
being
one
of
the
homes
of
diy.
Although
diy
happens
anywhere,
someone
teaches
themselves
how
to
build
something,
but
you
know
diy:
every
punk
scene
had
a
different
quality
to
it.
Seattle
had
a
really
interesting
quality
because
they
had
pop,
which
became
this
kind
of
worldwide
commercial
phenomenon,
and
so
they
had
this
sort
of
really
interesting,
small
town,
big
world
quality
to
them
in
dc.
B
You
know
every
every
every
city
has
a
different
quality
in
dc.
It's
the
government
right,
so
you've
got
these
high-performing
globally,
focused
individuals,
you
know,
and
all
of
the
ngos
of
the
world
are
there
and
all
of
the
major
marches
that
happened
back
in
the
80s
and
90s
would
all
happen
in
washington.
B
For
you
know,
national
tours
and
independent
music
didn't
have
a
place
to
be
played
on
mainstream
radio,
and
some
people
thought
that
was
really
good,
because
you
had
all
these
pockets
of
creativity
and
a
lot
of
people
looking
intently
at
their
own
scenes,
and
it
created
this
kind
of
nurturing
environment
that
sometimes
goes
away
when
everyone's
chasing
the
big
wins
that
happen.
But
it
was
a
really
interesting
moment
where
people
were
basically
building
everything.
B
So
if
they
wanted
to
put
out
a
record,
no
one
was
going
to
put
their
record
out
because
there
wasn't
a
label
that
cared
about
this
stuff.
So
they
actually
had
to
figure
out
how
to
you
know,
do
the
artwork
and
find
the
pressing
plan
and
go
into
the
studio
and
put
out
the
records
themselves
and
because
everybody
was
doing
that
everyone
helped
each
other.
Do
that
and
it
created
this
kind
of
environment.
A
B
Well,
I
was
an
advocate
before
I
was
a
musician,
so
there
was
a
there
was
an
organization
called
positive
force
in
dc,
which
was
really
unique
in
the
sense
that,
like
a
lot
of
people
like
care
about
an
issue
and
then
they
joined
greenpeace
or
they
joined
some
established
non-profit
organization
and
and
volunteer
for
them.
But
positive
force
was
basically
empowering
these
really
really
young
kids
to
do
whatever,
and
so
it
was
this
collective.
B
So
if
I
was
like
a
13
year
old
and
I
was
concerned
about
suicide-
or
I
wanted
to
put
on
a
concert
in
a
park,
the
21
year
old,
who
was
part
of
the
collective-
would
help
me
go
down
and
get
a
permit
from
the
local
government
to
have
that
concert
and
together
we
would
sort
of
design
the
kind
of
activism
we
wanted
to
do
ourselves.
So
it
was
really
this
crazily
empowering
environment
which
was
less
about.
B
Like
you
know,
someone
handing
me
a
clipboard
intent,
telling
me
to
go,
get
a
lot
of
signatures
outside
somebody's.
You
know,
you
know
some
shop
in
town.
It
really
allowed
us
to
do
whatever
we
wanted
to
do.
Sometimes
it
was
efficient.
You
know
where
we
do
some
incredible
thing
like
we
organized
concerts
in
front
of
the
white
house,
because
you
could
do
that
back
then,
and
sometimes
it
was
really
inefficient.
B
B
Then
it's
hard
to
imagine
that,
but
like
I
had
a
fast
desktop
because
I
needed
it
in
order
to
design
these
ads,
and
in
that
I
saw
everything
beginning
like
you
know,
my
thrift
store.
Maven
saw
ebay
for
the
first
time
like
all
this
stuff
was
coming
in,
and
because
we
have
this
catalog
all
the
music
labels
that
were
starting
at
that
time.
B
The
online
music
labels
all
came
to
us
and
said
you
know:
can
we
license
your
catalog
one
thing
we've
been
known
for
when
we
were
in
the
you
know,
luddite
world
was
we
put
a
guide
to
putting
out
records
together?
It
was
like
a
16
page
thing.
If
you
sent
us
50
cents,
we
put
two
stamps
on
it
and
send
it
to
you
and
it
sort
of
gave
you
all
the
recipe
of
how
you
put
out
a
res,
a
physical
record,
and
so
when
we
started
getting
all
these
requests,
we
thought
all
right.
B
We
saw
things
like
you
know:
the
company
e-music,
which
had
sort
of
created
itself
as
like
the
renegade
punk
rock
version
of
this,
was
purchased
by
universal
music,
which
was
like
the
man.
You
know
the
most
major
label
and
what
we
realized
was
like.
It's
not
going
to
be
enough.
Everything's
happening
it's
too
early
to
know
what
the
right
things
to
do
in
this
space
are.
So
we
realized
it
wasn't
enough
to
say,
like
go
to
this
company
or
sign
this
kind
of
contract,
or
do
this
with
your
copyrights,
we
actually
realized.
B
You
know
they
didn't
want
everything
to
be
free,
they
needed
to
make
a
living,
and
they
also
didn't
want
to
give
more
power
to
the
overlords
who
had
controlled
the
radio
and
controlled
the
record
labels.
So
I
did
that
for
about
seven
years
and
that's
how
I
got
the
bug.
Thinking
about
the
way
that
technology
was
changing,
everything
in
the
world.
A
Right
yeah,
I
think,
there's
so
many
commonalities
from
the
open
source
movement,
which
really
was
sort
of
happening
at
the
same
time
that
you
were
leading
the
future
music
coalition.
So
super
interesting.
So
I
mean
you
look
at
some
of
your
work
today.
You
know
the
world
wide
web
is
really
seen
as
a
public
resource,
yet
it
still
often
can
bring
socio
socioeconomic
disparities
and
other
issues.
A
B
B
In
touch
a
long
time
ago,
but
when
I
came,
I
came
actually
because
I'd
received
a
grant
from
ford
to
work
on
these
copyright
issues,
because
I
was
sort
of
right
at
the
center
of
it
and
and
ford
cared
about
access
to
information,
and
they
also
cared
about
artists
and
arts.
So
so
I
I
sort
of
fit
that
job
perfectly
and
we
had
a
brand
new
president
and
he
said
to
me:
do
you
want
to
work
on
cultural
policy
or
media
policy,
because
the
position
was
called
media
and
cultural
policy?
A
B
In
charge
of
the
world,
but
they
don't
really
understand
the
change
and
they
always
think
of
technology
in
a
transactional
way,
as
opposed
to
in
a
systems
way,
and
so
I
think
that's
that
was
the
biggest
problem
back
then
that
we
had
no
advocates.
Who
could
actually
say
you
know?
Net
neutrality
is
important
because
you
know
if
we
don't
have
it.
It's
like
payola
for
the
entire
internet
and
only
the
wealthy
and
connected
can
actually
be
on
the
fast
lane.
B
B
But
among
the
world
you
know
so,
if
we're
competing
with
companies
in
other
parts
of
the
world
that
don't
have
laws
around
freedom
of
expression
or
privacy,
you
know
they're
they're,
creating
their
technology
to
compete
with
the
world
in
a
way
that
completely
forgives
themselves
of
any
of
their
responsibilities
to
the
public.
So
those
are
the
really
really
big
challenges.
How
do
we
get
technologists
and
not
just
any
but
the
right
kinds
of
them
in
all
these
places
so
that
we
can
be
safe
in
the
future?
B
A
B
Well,
there
there's
a
lot,
I
mean
some
of
it's
just
building
a
field
of
experts
who
can
actually
say?
Oh
well,
you
know
when
this
tech
company
says
that
no
one
cares
about
privacy.
This
is
what
they
need.
You
know,
and
this
is
why
that's
wrong
or
they're,
actually
controlling
the
market
in
a
way
where
there's
no
competition.
If
anybody
could
vote
with
their
feet
or
their
pocketbook,
they
would
but
there's
no
market
competition
in
this
environment.
B
So
we
need
people
who
can
actually
make
the
arguments
about
the
dangers
of
of
unconstrained
or
or
I'd
also
say
like
if
you're,
a
strong,
capitalist,
uncapitalistic
technology
environment,
because
there's
really
not
competition
in
so
many
of
these
places.
You
know:
there's
such
winner
take
all
power
dynamics
with
some
of
these
companies,
but
putting
all
of
that
aside,
I
think
you
know
the
the
biggest
most
interesting
thing
for
me.
B
Right
now
is
when
I
first
came
to
ford,
I
flew
out
to
california,
and
I
sat
with
a
lot
of
the
companies
that
seemed
to
have
a
civic
mind
to
them,
like
the
wikipedias
were
the
kivas.
You
know
at
that
time
was
a
big
deal
that
it
just
started
and
like
ask
them:
are
you
concerned
about
net
neutrality?
You
know,
if
you
know,
if
people
made
you
pay
a
certain
amount
of
money
to
be
on
the
web.
Wouldn't
that
undermine
your
business
model.
B
You
know,
wouldn't
make
it
hard
for
people
to
access
this
information
and
what
we
found
is.
There
was
a
bias
on
the
west
coast,
which
most
tech
companies
and
most
technologists
felt
like
tech
was
always
going
to
be
speedy,
efficient
and
would
do
no
evil,
and
if
there
were
any
problems,
they
would
root
around
it
with
the
technical
solution
and
they
really
weren't
interested
in
washington.
And
what
we
found
historically
is
that
most
companies
aren't
interested
in
washington
until
they
get
sued
then
they
get.
B
Then
they
get
a
policy
shop
and
then
they
spend
a
lot
of
time,
usually
publicly
denying
that
they're
doing
what
they're
actually
doing
or
trying
to
change
what
people
think
about
what
they're
doing.
But
what
was
interesting
to
me
is
we've
seen
this
enormous
shift,
and
it's
really
what
makes
me
so
optimistic
right
now,
like
open
source
people,
always
knew
that
how
you
design
something
will
determine
whether
it
is
rights
protecting
or
rights
undermining.
They
just
know
that
and
that
having
competing
models
is
what
keeps
people
honest.
B
So
if
someone
builds
a
technology,
that's
doing
something.
You
don't
like
a
technology
that
does
something
different
than
that
gives
gives
the
market
the
opportunity
to
move
in
a
better
direction.
So,
but,
but
you
are
small,
you,
you
open
source
people
are
small
in
the
world
in
relation
to
all
of
the
public
in
the
world.
B
So
what
I
love
right
now,
though,
is
that
all
the
change
in
the
world,
whether
it
is
the
racial
reckoning,
we're
going
through
around
the
lack
of
diversity
and
the
way
that
black
people
have
been
held
down
or
women
have
been.
You
know,
made
to
feel
like
second-class
citizens
in
these
environments
or
the
kinds
of
scary
disinformation
that
we're
seeing
and
the
confusing
media
environment
that
we're
in
or
the
total
lack
of
privacy
and
the
constant
hacking.
B
A
I
know
I
had
listened
to
an
npr
story
with
you
and
I
think
2004
and
you
talked
about
sort
of
the
voice
of
the
musician,
was
lost
in
policy
debates.
Do
you
think
that's
changing?
I
mean
you
mentioned
university
students,
so
you
do
see
a
shift
more
where
the
individual
voice
of
developers,
for
example,
and
those
of
us
in
technology
have
a
voice.
B
B
That
all
this
other
stuff
around,
like
what
is
this
policy?
What
is
this
rule?
What
is
this
law?
You
know,
or
you
know
all
that
other
stuff
seems
less
pure
and
kind
of
distracting
from
what
you
most
care
about,
but
that
and
and
you
know,
the
challenge
is
that
you
know
in
the
case
of
the
music
landscape.
B
I'm
sure
this
is
true
with
the
open
source
people,
because
I've
been
around
them.
If
you
ever
have
you
know
three
musicians
together,
there's
like
15
positions
on
any
issue.
You
know
they
have
very
strong
and
complex
positions
on
things.
So
the
idea
that
you
could
just
say
that
musicians
want
this
or
they
don't
want.
This
is,
is
a
real
problem
and
the
fact
that
they're
so
focused
on
their
art
is
great
for
us,
but
it's
also
bad
at
times
because
they
can
be.
B
They
would
be
the
best
advocates
for
a
better
world,
but
they're
more
focused
on
the
world.
They
want
to
create,
which
is
in
art.
So
that's
why
we
need
these
hybrids
and
and
what
I
would
say
about
the
technology
landscape.
I'm
seeing
right
now
is
it's
the
investments
we're
making
about
building
this
field
that
we're
calling
the
field
of
public
interest
technology
is
focused
on
investments.
B
A
B
Practice
where
you
could
like
be
at
a
firm
and
work
on
capital
cases
or
environmental
cases
for
part
of
your
time
or
that
you
know
there
are
pathways
into
the
aclu
or
the
naacp
legal
defense
fund.
But
none
of
these
organizations
really
existed
before
the
investment
to
build
them,
and
it
was
largely
built
around
a
similar
moment
of
cultural
tumult
and
change
like
the
one
we're
in
right
now.
B
But
it
was
the
civil
rights
movement
and
there
was
a
real
need
to
have
lawyers
that
could
actually
defend
people
who
were
doing
civil
disobedience
or
bring
cases
around.
You
know
voting
rights
and
other
kinds
of
issues,
and
so
what
I
love
about
this
moment
is
the
sort
of
it's.
This
kind
of
mutual
development,
of
a
real
clear-eyed
need
to
do
something
different
with
these
technology
skills
and
the
same
way
in
the
60s
and
70s.
B
B
I
don't
know,
stroking
the
algorithm,
whatever
they
were
doing
and
focus
on
actually
how
to
make
these
kinds
of
systemic
changes
to
how
you
know,
people
get
vaccines
or
how
people
believe
in
the
news
or
how
people
can
pick
between
social
media
environments
that
enshrine
their
privacy
rights
and
don't
just
sell
all
their
data
to
everyone.
So.
A
B
So
every
single
issue
that
you
could
care
about
has
a
technical
component
to
it.
At
this
point.
This
is
what
I'm
always
trying
to
say,
and
this
is
again
this
challenge
that
I
have
when
I'll
go
to
like
talk
to
a
president
of
a
foundation,
or
you
know
a
head
of
an
ngo
and
say
to
them.
You
know
we
really
need
a
technology
lens
on
what
you're
doing
they'll
say:
oh,
but
we
have
this
person
who's.
Building
this
app
or
who's.
Organizing,
this
you
know
flash
mob
or
what
you
know.
B
I
know
that's
outdated,
but
you
know
the
point
that
I'm
meaning
is
there.
They
think
about
technology
as
an
instrumentalist
tactical.
You
know
tool
as
opposed
to
the
ecosystem
right.
So
like
a
perfect
example,
like
the
first
argument
I
made
for
changing
to
have
an
internet
rights
portfolio
at
ford
was
like
ford,
had
just
made
like
a
five
million
dollar
investment
in
npr,
so
that
they
could
begin
to
develop.
Podcasting
it'd
like
it
needs
to
be
podcasting,
and
so
this
idea
was
like.
B
How
do
you
take
this
great
content,
which
we
listen
to
on
our
radio
and
make
it
something
that's
actually
going
to
be
in
the
internet?
Environment?
Okay,
well,
think
about
that
in
environment
of
a
non-neutral
net.
You
know,
public
radio
has
very
tight
margins
right.
Imagine
if
they
actually
had
to
pay
for
you
to
be
able
to
access
this
american
life
or
whatever
it
was.
B
A
But
still
lots
of
transferable
skills
right,
yes,
I
think,
maybe
more
so,
with
our
open
source
community,
we
are
so
used
to
really
collaborating
with
folks
with
their
competitors
across
countries
and
things
like
that.
So
what
would
you
say
to
some
of
these
folks
to
maybe
encourage
them
to
use
their
skills
for
the
public
good
for
public
interest
technology
or
perhaps
even
going
to
work
for
the
government
or
an
ngo.
B
Well,
it's
never
been
easier
to
do
this.
You
know
what
we
found
like
we
had
to
build
a
lot
of
these
systems
because
we
needed
the
technologist
right.
So
all
our
grantees,
when
I
was
a
I
was
in
the
field
right
I
had.
I
was
a
ford
grantee
before
I
became
a
program
officer
and
I
was
so
proud
of
myself
when
I
became
a
program
officer
because
I
was
going
to
solve
everything.
B
I
had
this
three
million
dollar
budget
now
and
everything
was
going
to
be
solved
for
the
field
and
I'm
going
to
be
in
the
room
with
the
funders.
I
can
tell
them
how
important
these
issues
are,
of
course,
if
that
is
not
what
happened,
you
know
it's
been
such
a
hard
slog
and
you
know
it's
amazing,
like
you
know,
it's
like
somebody
with
an
ax
in
their
head
and
you're.
B
Like
you
know,
we
need
to
take
that
ax
out
of
your
head
and
they're
like
what
acts
you
know
it's
just
like,
there's
so
much
denial
about
how
the
world
has
been
transformed
or-
and
I
think
it's
just
the
denial
of
being
afraid
that
you
won't
know
how
to
fix
it.
So
I'll
fix
something
else
you
know
like.
Oh,
I
don't
know
how
to
get
this
axe
out,
but
I'm
you
know
I'll
make
myself
a
cup
of
tea
because
I'm
a
little
tired
or
whatever
it
is.
B
You
know,
but
but
yeah
the
punch
line
about
this
long,
winded
story
that
I
was
telling
you
is.
I
had
all
the
grantees
that
were
there
was
about
like
10
of
them
10
organizations
working
on
these
issues
at
that
time,
and
I
said
all
right,
if
you
have
all
the
money
in
the
world,
because
you
do
now,
I've
got
three
million
dollars
right.
That's
all
the
money
you'll
ever
need
to
save
the
internet.
B
And
what
we
found
was
like.
These
people
often
didn't
have
some
of
the
soft
skills
or
the
curiosity
to
be
able
to
figure
out
how
to
pick
the
right
problem
to
solve
and
or
how
to
work
in
an
environment
that
wasn't
you
know,
fast-paced
and,
and
you
know,
and
then
there's
financial
concerns
as
well,
like
you
don't
make
as
much
money
if
you're
working
in
the
government
or
in
the
ngos.
B
But
what
we
found
is
through
these
pathways,
and
you
ask
that
question
explicitly
so
I'll
say
like
there
are
things
like
the
tech
talent
project,
which
is
actively
done
work
to
try
to
recruit
strong
technologists
to
take
tours
of
duty
within
government.
You
know
so
something
like
this.
There
are
a
bunch
of
organizations
like
this
and
we
can
find
some
links
and
you
can
link
to
them
somewhere,
but
also
ngos
are
desperate
for
them.
B
Now,
like
we
have
a
whole
tech
sellers
program,
we've
done
now
for
five
years
with
mozilla,
where
they
help
vet
the
tech
chops,
and
we
do
the
sort
of
partnership
betting
and
we
put
technologists
into
ngos
like
amnesty
international,
human
rights
watch.
These
are
places
that,
by
the
way,
have
nice
budgets
they
actually
could
hire
technologists,
but
without
the
kind
of
system
to
figure
out
where
to
place
the
technologists
and
what
kind
of
skills
for
what
kind
of
work?
Usually
the
first
one
never
gets
placed.
A
B
It
was
set
up
in
the
aftermath
of
the
failure
of
the
healthycare.gov
website,
and
it
was
a
way
that
the
government
figured
out
how
to
recruit
a
different
kind
of
talent
in
at
a
moment
of
crisis,
and
this
article
about
these
folks
in
an
airbnb
in.
I
think
it
was
like
in
crystal
city
or
clarendon,
which
is
right
across
the
river
from
washington.
B
Solving
the
technical
problems
for
like
pennies
on
the
hundred
dollar
bills
of
what
was
initially
spent
is
just
such
an
exciting.
I
feel
like
for
me
it's
like
an
action
film
like
why
didn't
I
reading
this
article
and
and
again
over
and
over
again
we've
heard
from
individuals
who've
gone
through
these
as
long
as
they're
placed
well
and
treated
with
respect
which
part
of
what
was
interesting
about
18f.
Was
there
wasn't
a
requirement
that
there
wasn't
a
guarantee
that
you'd
get
an
18f
person?
B
You
actually
had
to
agree
to
certain
things
like
you
had
to
agree
to
place
them
at
a
certain
level
and
give
them
a
certain
level
of
power
within
an
agency,
and
this
actually
meant
that
they
could
actually
make
the
kinds
of
changes
they
needed
to
make
at
a
systemic
level,
because
government,
I
think-
and
rightly
so-
is
conservative.
It's
worried
if
we
do
the
wrong
thing.
All
these
downstream
harms
will
happen,
but
sometimes
that
creates
a
paralysis.
B
So
so
the
18f
article
in
in
the
atlantic,
which
is
from
quite
a
long
time
ago,
is,
I
can't
believe,
there's
not
more
articles
about
how
interesting
this
stuff
is
us
digital
response,
which
it
was
an
organization
that
sort
of
came
out
of
the
code
for
america
sort
of
network
because
of
kovid,
and
because
of
because
of
you
know
our
racial
reckoning
moment
and
because
of
you
know,
pandemic
and
quarantine
and
the
unemployment.
All
of
those
issues
were
issues
that
governments
across
the
country
were
just
struggling
with.
B
How
do
we
get
people
checks?
How
do
we
deal
with
whether
people
wear
mass
or
not,
how
you
know?
How
do
we
make
our
systems?
More
transparent
and
helpful
at
this
moment
where
people
are
needing
so
much
so
u.s
digital
response
was
an
amazing.
It
stood
up
for,
for
this
moment,
still
exists
now
and
is
going
to
get
bigger,
but
we're
able
to
sort
of
recruit
private
sector
and
some
other
talent
to
be
match
made
with
individuals
to
solve
big
problems,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
this
stuff.
B
A
B
A
Right,
yeah-
and
I
know
your
website's
really
been
showcasing
some
of
those
geniuses
who
are
making
a
difference.
So
I
encourage
you
all
to
take
a
look
so
because
I'm
in
closing
kind
of
on
a
lighter
note,
you
know
I
love
live
music
and
we're
sort
of
fortunate
in
the
us
that
things
are
opening
up
a
little
bit
so
kind
of
my
question
twofold,
who
what's
the
favorite
band
or
musician
you've
played
with
and
who
are
you
looking
forward
to
hearing
live
in
the
future?.
B
So
that's
interesting,
you
know
one
of
the
benefits,
I'm
a
dc
girl,
but
because
of
my
job
at
ford,
I've
had
to
live
in
new
york
for
a
long
time.
You
know
some
people
say
had
to
live
like
it's
tragedy,
but
but
one
of
the
real
benefits
of
living
in
new
york
is
the
free
concerts
in
central
park
in
the
summertime.
It's
just
there's
nothing
like
it.
You
know
it's.
A
first
come
first
serve
to
get
the
tickets
and
then
you're
outside
in
a
beautiful
park.
B
In
the
middle
of
this
enormous
city-
and
you
know
anything-
you
see
there
is
going
to
be
joyful.
I
remember
we
saw
gregory
porter
once
and
it
was
like
all
he
was
so
delicious.
He
was
playing
with
an
orchestra
and
all
these
strangers
were
just
like
buying
each
other
ice
cream
and
dancing
and
having
the
most
fun
in
the
world.
So
something
like
that,
where
you
can
it's
not
just
about
seeing
music,
but
the
idea
that
you
can
enjoy
it
with
strangers.
B
You
know
who
you
don't
know
if
they've
been
vaccinated
or
not
or
if
they're
you
know
like
you've,
we've
been
made
to
feel
afraid
of
our
call.
You
know,
like
think
about
it.
We've
had
a
year
and
a
half
of
crossing
the
street
when
someone
is
walking
towards
you
and
so
figuring
out
how
we
can
be
next
to
each
other
and
dance
with
each
other,
and
you
know
and
meet
strangers
is
going
to
be
some
muscles
that
I'd
like
to
work
on
in
the
future.
A
B
Yep,
I
love
I
love
so
much
music
like
I
really
miss
like
going
to
a
jazz
club
and
not
knowing
who's
there.
You
know.
I
love
that
sort
of
nick
and
norah
film
thing
where
you
know
the
jazz
is
amazing,
but
the
conversation
is
amazing
and
it
doesn't
keep
you
from
solving
the
murder.
It's
just
part
of
the
whole
night
love
going
to
jazz
clubs.
For
that
reason,
and
what
about
you
I
mean,
if
you
were,
if
you
were
in
the
90s,
you
must
have
had
some
favorites
that
I
mean
yeah.