►
From YouTube: OCG Berlin 2017 - Upstream This! (Panel Discussion)
Description
From the March 28th 2017 OpenShift Commons Gathering in Berlin @KubeCon https://Commons.openshift.org/Gathering
A
A
Welcome
to
the
upstream
this
panel,
my
name
is
stormy.
Peters
I
lead
a
team
of
community
managers
within
Red
Hat,
and
we
have
here
today
a
group
of
experts
on
the
open
source
software
projects
that
make
up
all
the
things
we've
been
talking
about
today,
but
before
I,
let
them
introduce
themselves
I'd
love
to
see
how
many
people
are
familiar
with
the
term
upstream.
A
A
So,
upstream,
sorry,
so
you
can
also
continue.
A
conversation
at
lunch
upstream
to
me
means
the
open
source
software
project
that
everyone
contributes
to
a
lot
of
times.
We
say
upstream
first,
which
means
make
sure
you
contribute
all
the
things
that
awesome
things
you've
written
to
the
open
source
software
project.
So
everybody
can
work
together
and
collaborate.
It
might
need
something
else
to
our
panels,
so
they
can
jump
in
if
they
want
to.
But
I'm
going
to
have
them
introduce
themselves.
A
So
you
can
see
their
face,
hear
their
voice
I'm
so
that
you
can
track
them
down
at
lunch
or
later
this
afternoon
and
ask
them
your
question
or
tell
them
that
idea
that
you
had
in
response
to
theirs.
So
have
them,
one
by
one
say
their
name,
what
they
do
and
then
I've
asked
them
to
tell
us
what
their
favorite
genre
of
books
is
and
how
that
might
relate
to
what
we're
talking
about
today.
B
Genre
I
would
have
to
say
that
well,
I,
like
Bollywood
movies,
I
guess
that's
that's
one
thing
which
is
maybe
musicals,
but
I
also
like
documentaries
and
mostly
fact-based
and
real
stuff,
and
I
think
the
connection
to
cloud
native
and
open
source
is
that
with
open
source
software,
you
can
really
go
in
and
you
can
look
at
the
code
and
it's.
What
you
see
is
what
you
get,
which
is
very
refreshing
and
honest.
D
Hi
I'm
Brandon
Phillips
I'm,
the
CTO
and
co-founder
of
core
OS.
If
you're
not
familiar
core
OS,
we've
built
a
bunch
of
open
source
projects
in
the
ecosystem,
some
of
which
are
used
by
Cooper
Nettie's
things
like
flannel
and
SED,
and
then
we
build
a
product
called
tectonic,
which
is
secure,
simple
and
current
goober
Nettie's.
It's
built
on
pure
upstream
cougar
Nettie's.
What
favorite
genre
my
favorite
genre
is
sci-fi.
Did
you
want
to
go
into
the
questions
about
like
how
it
relates
if.
D
E
F
But
when
you
think
about
you
know
what
is
open
source
and
open
shift
and
Cuban
Andes
most
like
it's
quite
challenging,
because
there
are
so
many
examples
to
pick
from
and
we've
had
dune
already,
and
I
think
is
it
like
Game
of
Thrones,
for
example,
we
have
the
CNCs
board
meeting
this
afternoon,
which
will
be
nothing
like
the
red
wedding,
I
promise.
You
I
read
a
really
great
book
last
vehicle,
the
Goblin
Emperor,
which
is
about
somebody
who's
thrust
into
position
of
trying
to
manage
an
extremely
complicated,
Empire
and
I.
F
C
My
name
is
Clayton
Coleman
I'm
architect
for
openshift
I,
also
going
to
say
like
sci-fi,
so
this
is
maybe
a
little
bit
along
Paul's
line
of
thought,
but
one
of
my
favorite
books
is
a
deepness
in
the
sky
and
it's
basically
slower
than
light
giant.
You
know
interstellar
spacecraft,
but,
unlike
you
know,
the
more
positive
and
upbeat
yeah
instead
of
instead
of
being
this
like
very
bright,
clean,
futuristic
spaceship.
C
Do
these
giant
spaceships
that
no
one
understands
how
they
run,
because
layer
and
layer
and
layer
and
layer
of
software
all
the
way
up
its
abstractions,
all
it's
Turtles,
all
the
way
down
and
abstractions
all
the
way
up,
and
so,
instead
of
being
programmers,
your
archaeologists
and
you
dig
through
the
different
layers
to
go,
find
the
program
that
you
can
then
adapt
to
go
use
because
all
softwares
been
written
and
so
every
time
I.
Think
of
that
I
think
of
I
hope.
A
That
is
awesome
thanks
for
the
analogies
to
books,
so
after
every
question,
I'm
just
going
to
kind
of
look
over
the
audience
and
if
anyone
raises
their
hands
like
after
a
question,
I'll
take
an
audience
question:
if
not
all
those
types
of
discussion
up
here,
so
we
have
a
bunch
of
users
in
the
audience
and
and
I
think
most
of
the
developers
and
most
the
companies
working
here
are
familiar
with.
Why
we
will
work
upstream.
Why
we
work
in
open
source
and
I?
A
Think
a
partner
said
you
know,
Cooper
Nettie's
to
be
the
platform
for
the
world,
and
what
would
you
tell
the
users
in
the
audience
about
what
they
should
be
doing
to
get
the
most
out
of
their
day
when
they
have
the
developers
here
in
the
audience?
Why
is
it
important
that
it's
open
source
and
what
does
that
mean
to
them
and
their
day?
I
didn't
give
them
can't
questions
by
the
way.
F
Is
that
the
question
people
ask
every
year
and
have
been
doing
since
1991
and
the
answers
change
every
year,
which
is
a
really
interesting
thing?
It
used
to
be
the
case
that
people
would
say
open
source.
You
know
you
could
see
the
bugs
and
if
the
way
issues
with
security,
you
could
request
for
them
to
be
fixed,
and
that
was
drawn
as
a
contrast
with
companies
like
Microsoft,
which,
at
the
time
had
a
very
hostile,
starts
to
open
source
and
very
much
wouldn't
admit
to
having
any
bugs.
F
For
example,
you
know
I
think
today,
open
source
is
about
participation.
The
idea
that
you
can
be
empowered
by
a
tool-
and
you
can
help
make
it
better-
is
very
powerful
to
users
a
lot
of
the
people,
the
idea
that
you
are
contributing
patching,
getting
involved
on
slack,
getting
involved
on
github
and
that's
part
of
your
day
to
day
work
as
a
normal
developer
in
a
normal
end-user
company
or
startup
or
big
company,
doing
open
source,
I
think,
is
integral
to
open
source
today
and
that's
a
huge
change
that
wasn't
true
ten
years
ago.
G
D
Every
organization
that
we
work
with
their
constraints
and
those
constraints
generally
mean
that
software
engineers
have
to
make
the
choice
between
going
back
to
the
vendor
their
software
to
make
the
thing
fit
into
their
constraints
or
just
looking
at
it,
fixing
it
and
moving
on
with
our
day
and
I.
Think
as
a
software
engineer,
so
I
would
much
rather
just
pick
something
and
move
on
then
have
to
work
with
another
layer
of
management.
So
I
think
that's
that's
a
big
part
of
it.
So.
E
For
me,
I
think
that
as
a
user
long
time,
user
open
source
software,
it's
important
to
me
because
I've
like
learned
a
lot
as
a
developer
by
combing
through
open
source
code,
and
especially
now
that
you
know
it's
really
easy
to
just
reach
out
to
people
that
work
on
projects.
You
can
learn
directly
from
the
people
that
wrote
this
stuff,
which
is
pretty
amazing.
E
If
you
think
about
it,
the
world
has
gotten
a
lot
smaller
and
you
know
now,
if
you,
if
you
want
a
lesson
in
software
engineering,
you
can
go
on
kerbin,
any
slack
and
say
hello
or
openshift
IRC,
and
ask
a
question:
learn
something,
and
that
also
helps
us
as
developers,
because
the
more
you
have
to
explain
something,
the
more
you
really
understand
it
and
the
more
questions
you
get
about
it.
You
tend
to
prepare
more
and
do
some
deep
learning
in
advance
of
those
questions
too,
and.
C
Like
you
know,
when
we
get
to
those
giant
ships
with
all
those
layers
of
programs
like
we
want
to
make
sure
that
the
foundations
are
really
good
and
I.
Think,
like
that's
an
opportunity
that
we
have
to
like
help,
make
our
tools
better,
like
blacksmiths,
build
their
tools
up
from
scratch
and
get
better
and
better
over
their
lifetime,
and
when
an
apprentice
goes
out,
he
often
goes
with
his
own
tools,
but
he
takes
some
of
his
master
tools
and
I.
C
Think
that's
like
some
element
of
like
we're
all
going
to
be
programmers
at
some
point
where
I'm
going
to
touch
these
big,
complex
computer
systems,
and
if
we
don't
understand
how
they
work,
we
have
no
way
to
control
them
like
they're,
just
magic
fairies
inside
of
our
phones
and
I.
Think
we
need
to
actually
get
to
that
point
where
we
understand.
What's
going
on.
B
Yeah
I
think
for
me
you
know
when
I
first
installed
linux
on
you
know.
My
computer
in
my
in
my
dorm
room,
I,
think
there's
this
feeling
of
control.
You
know
because
it's
very
it's
very
flexible,
I
own
it
I
can
change
it.
I
can
go
read
about
it.
I
can
be
part
of
the
community,
so
I
think
I
think
that
element
of
control
is
very
empowering
and
also
the
community
and
the
fact
that
you
can
learn
from
the
community.
B
A
H
I
just
started
with
the
robust
access
control
I
knew
that
the
teacher
wasn't
also
before
now
it's
going
to
get
stabilized
and
it's
going
to
move
forward,
and
it
allows
me
firstly
to
contribute
to
the
development
of
that
and,
secondly,
to
see
what
can
I
expect
for
the
future,
and
this
is
for
me
one
of
the
most
important
points
when
it
comes
to
to
open
source
development
and
using
an
open
source
tool
and
also
the
freedom
to
do
whatever
I
want
with
it.
Yeah.
B
I
Have
a
question
for
the
panel
here
so
I
work
for
juniper
networks
and
we
have
an
open
source
for
oracle
open
country,
but
with
our
experience
with
communities
like
OpenStack,
one
thing,
I
realized
is,
as
the
communities
grow
larger,
there
is
the
tendency
to
feel
like
you're
working
for
the
community,
rather
than
looking
after
what
the
end
users
need.
So
how
do
you
balance
between
that?
Like
you
know
that,
ultimately,
the
end
user
is
what
is
who
you're
serving
and.
F
D
F
That's
an
interesting
point
I'd
like
to
answer
that.
First,
if
I
may,
this
is
an
opportunity
for
me
to
talk
about
the
difference
between
CMC,
f
and
OpenStack.
Openstack
is
a
attempt
to
build
a
extremely
ambitious
architecture
for
an
extremely
complex
and
important
problem,
which
is
the
infrastructure,
automation
problem
at
the
scale
and
to
do
that.
What
it
has
done
is.
F
It
has
created
a
in
my
opinion,
slightly
monolithic
way
of
looking
at
the
world
which
is
created
on
the
plus
side,
a
quite
homogeneous
community,
which
is
very
big,
but
on
the
minus
side,
a
lot
of
interlocked
between
the
different
projects,
which
means
that
the
effect
that
you
describe
happens
I
believe
that
a
solution,
maybe
not
the
only
solution,
but
a
solution-
is
to
make
sure
that
there
are
more
smaller
projects
moving
at
their
own
speeds.
What
when
I
say
smaller
I
mean
smaller
than
OpenStack
within
the
CNCs?
F
There
is
one
huge
project
given
Eddie's,
which
is
moving
incredibly
fast,
but
they're.
Also
smaller
projects
like
Prometheus
and
fluid
d
and
g
RPC
and
they're
all
right
size
and
within
each
one
of
those
communities.
You
don't
quite
have
the
sense
that
you
describe
because
things
are
scales
down
to
the
problem
at
hand.
There
isn't
a
sense
of
having
to
look
over
your
shoulder
and
worry
about
what
the
other
project
is
doing,
because
you're
part
of
some
huge,
homogeneous
vision
of
some
unknown
person,
yeah.
B
There's
also
the
governance
structure,
you
know,
I
think
if
you
have
a
foundation
that
is-
and
you
know
very
heavy
in
its
governance,
then
I
think
what
you're
saying
can
happen
where
you're
working
for
the
community,
rather
than
the
users,
whereas
at
least
so
far
Cooper
Nattie's
has
been
very
independent
in
terms
of
the
technology
that
and
the
roadmap,
it's
largely
driven
by
the
contributors
who
are
also
the
users.
Some
of
them
are
also
the
users
or
they
are
providing
to
the
users.
B
C
C
The
mindset
and
I
think
you
know
my
cynicism
in
this-
is
that
no
two
pieces
of
software
ever
work.
What
like
perfectly
together
right,
nobody's
I
gosh,
look
at
the
problems
we
were
having
with
presentations
this
morning,
but
it
ultimately
comes
down
to
you
can
make
things
work.
You
made
things
work
well
enough
to
get
actual
value
out
of
them
as
a
user
as
a
company
as
a
someone,
developing
applications
and
I
think
I
think
we
should
be
willing
to
trade.
G
D
G
The
users,
how
do
we
know
which
one
of
the
projects
are
stable
and
that
we
we
should
actually
integrate
these
into
our
infrastructure?
So
we
can
use
and
what's
the
what's,
the
thing
we
should
be
watching
in
the
community
to
make
sure
that
not
only
we
know
they're
mature
and
it
was
good
to
see
the
debate
as
the
Alpha
and
the
stable.
But
then
the
interdependencies
between
those
projects
who,
on
the
who
in
CNC
f,
is
responsible
for
making
sure
that
those
interdependencies
are
going
to
be
stable
and
that
it
isn't
going
to
fall
apart.
D
Yeah,
so
really
that
comes
down
to
a
lot
of
the
decisions
that
happen
inside
of
the
kokuboro
aids
project.
So
you'll
see
a
lot
of
testing
happening
inside
of
the
Gubru
Nettie's
project
around
just
every
single
release
and
so
going
back
to
kind
of
what
Clayton
was
talking
about
for
some
of
the
foundational
components
like
they're,
pretty
like
strong
opinions
and
there's
kind
of
like
a
reasonable
set
of
defaults
that
come
out
of
the
project
and
those
are
sort
of
the
things
that
should,
for
the
most
part,
end
up
in
people's
environments.
D
B
The
lego
analogy,
I
think,
is
a
good
one.
There
are
parts
and
pieces,
each
of
which
is
well
tested
and
stable,
but
they
can
fit
together
to
create
different
toys,
completely
different
toys
and
therefore
different
environments,
and
that's
part
of
the
architecture.
I
think
the
base
architecture
of
Cooper
Nettie's
is
very
modular.
E
Take
things
back
to
how
can
we
best
keep
users
interests
in
mind?
I?
One
thing:
that's
extremely
important
is
to
have
a
good
path
for
users
to
become
developers
and
other
types
of
contributors,
because
users
tend
to
know
what
they
want
like
they
they're
they're,
using
something
to
accomplish
a
goal,
and
if
we
can
give
them
tools
to
help
the
project
help
them
accomplish
their
goals
by
contributing
that's,
that's,
really
powerful
right
and
sets
up
like
a
positive
feedback.
Loop.
F
So,
for
example,
the
CMT
f
and
publish
information
about
what
works
with
what
and
at
the
moment
pretty
much
everything
works
is
pretty
much
everything
within
the
cnc
f,
because
the
projects
are
sort
of
fairly
different
but
I
think
in
the
future.
That's
going
to
become
much
more
important.
You
probably
notice
that
recently
container
D&R
katie
will
put
up
for
the
CNCs
and
it
will
be
very
important
for
end
users
to
understand
which
containers
work
queue
benetti's,
for
example,
at
any
given
moment,
and
that
might
be
a
changing
thing.
F
F
I
believe
is
one
hundred
percent
open
sores,
but
it's
an
assembly
of
multiple
projects,
so
that
comes
with
it,
trust
that
somebody,
these
two
guys
and
others
have
made
an
effort
to
make
the
pieces
work
together,
and
you
have
things
like
tectonic,
which
is
a
commercial
distribution,
but
also
providing
you
that
guarantee.
So
these
are
all
different
ways
in
which
trust
can
be
built
up,
but
it
ultimately
comes
down
to
relationship
between
you,
the
user
and
who's,
providing
you
with
the
software,
and
I.
A
C
I
would
make
it
like.
This
is
a
kind
of
a
stretch
analogy,
so
you
have
to
bear
with
me.
I
sometimes
go
for
very
torturous
analogies,
but
like
the
spaceship
yeah.
That
is
exactly
like
that.
I
think.
In
this
case
the
I
would
I'd
like
to
see
cooper
Nettie's
become
the
microsoft
excel
of
distributed
systems,
which
is,
it
is
not
there
to
ensure
that
you
can
do
10
billion
rows
and
all
that,
but
people
do
it
anyway
and
they
get
value
out
of
it
and
it's
useful
and
everybody
can
kind
of
approach
it.
C
Everybody
can
approach
it
from
the
beginning
and
say:
I
know
how
to
take
this
piece
and
put
it
together
with
these
other
pieces
and
actually
run
distributed
systems
successfully
and
I
think
you
know,
there's
lots
of
different
aspects
of
distributors,
of
systems,
feedback,
loops
and
all
this,
but
like
that
formula
is
an
incredibly
powerful
thing.
We
need
equivalent
formula
for
Cooper
neighs
to
let
you
run
these
things,
keep
them
together
and
you
know
get
something
out
of
it
at
the
end.
Get
a
result
out
of
it,
which
is
your
applications,
keep
running.
That
was.
E
E
H
One
question:
when
it
comes
down
to
what
you
can
expect
from
from
open
source
and
from
stability
I
believe
what
we
should
really
think
about
is
what
can
we
be
sure
that
an
API
or
in
component
in
Cuba
needs
souls,
because
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
I've
ran
into
recently?
Is
persistent
volumes
having
the
wrong
users
configured
when
I
start
them
up
and
then
I
need
to
run
as
a
root
user
and
reconfigured
it,
and
there
was
some
bug
reports
for
that,
but
all
those
were
closed.
H
This
is
not
what
persistent
volume
should
solve.
This
needs
to
be
solved
level
and
I
can
rely
on
that,
and
I
can
accept.
That,
and
I
can
be
sure
that
this
is
going
to
stay
for
the
future,
and
it's
not
going
to
change,
and
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
I
believe
is
most
important
for
stability
and
interoperability
in
the
future.
A
A
A
C
Don't
say
like
the
sense
of
humility
that
people
in
communities
need
to
have
is
like
what
I
mean
like
the
one
of
the
things
that's
made.
Cooper
Nettie's,
specifically
successful,
has
been
a
bunch
of
people
trying
their
best
to
take
all
the
really
important
lessons
that
they
learned
and
like
come
up
with
the
simplest
possible
thing
that
could
actually
work
that
doesn't
overshoot
and
it
doesn't
always
get
it
right,
like
there's
lots
of
little
things,
and
that's
just
the
way.
C
Software
is
like
those
layers
of
all
that
software
going
back
in
time
that
are
just
going
to
be
built
up
forever
like
we
just
want
to
try
to
do
our
best
to
take
that
feedback
and
be
reactive
like
if
Cooper
natives
has
to
change,
kubernetes
will
change
and
I.
Think
that's.
The
best
part
about
open
source
is
that
there
is
always
an
opportunity
for
that.
Yeah.
B
I
think
I
would
say:
that's
the
there
is
a
very
high
level
of
conscientiousness.
You
know
amongst
the
engineering
and
technical
team
behind
the
project.
It
would
take
the
responsibility
very
seriously
in
terms
of
structural.
You
know
that
we
have
the
alpha
beta
and
stable
labels
for
different
features.
The
Alpha
indicates
that
the
API
isn't
yet
pinned
down
and
there
could
be
changes,
and
so
that's
a
you
know
you
that
your
own
risk
type
of
thing
beta
gets
towards.
B
E
A
You
for
the
feedback
before
we
close
I,
have
one
more
exercise
for
all
of
you,
I'm,
so
you're
going
to
go
to
lunch
and
I'm.
Sure
dan
has
a
few
words
to
say
to
you
before
you
do
that,
but
before
we
say
thanks
to
the
panel
I'd
like
you
to
turn
to
the
person
next
to
you
and
tell
them
what
kind
of
conversation
you
are
going
to
try
to
have
at
lunch.
So
who
are
you
going
to
try
to
find?