Red Hat OpenShift Developer Experience Office Hours, 18 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Developer Experience Office Hours

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We've been thinking about how to improve the developer experience around application creation. We want to hear your use cases and requirements! https://openshift.tv

A

All right- and we should be back here in just a second- give it like five seconds to come back up once I see it over here all right, yep, okay, looks.

B

Like we're coming.

A

B

A

Like we're coming back, I have that has literally never happened before I apologize everyone that has literally never happened before in three months of live streaming. uh The boxes never crashed. uh That's a first! So sorry about that.

C

Congratulations: yeah.

A

Congratulations. Everyone.

D

You got to see the first crash live right. First, on air.

C

Crash and burn you witnessed it here, live yeah the crashiest.

A

Of burns, it's a rough one.

B

All right so I was I was thinking. It was just uh my cahoots that was screwed up, but it was more than that. So.

A

I'm going to.

B

Put this in here, one more time, unfortunately, when I had to change the time um it did give me another game pin, so if you guys can rejoin kahoot with six three, seven, nine one, eight! Thank you. We got three players now. If we can get back, it would be awesome.

D

B

Yes, I will thank you, I'm sorry about that. No worries.

A

B

Right now, I'm just.

A

Like intently focused on this box, like is it going to die or not.

B

Yeah, oh boy, all right, so you got four people: five, six excellence, all right.

C

Okay, so let's see because.

B

We want more than two.

C

B

C

B

C

Hey, uh thank you all for joining. You can join late. If you like all right. Thank you, em, herman's uh and, and all else yeah um feel.

B

Free to join late, if.

C

You like, um via the.

C

637-918, and here we go.

B

There we go so we're going to go back to that same question which is going to be, and then there is a lag. I know this is a multi-select question so which of the following. Do you most frequently access in the developer, catalog builder images, helm, charts operator back services or templates, and we now have, I think, a four minute uh wait period. So hopefully that will give us enough four minutes.

D

C

B

C

To chat about the options.

B

Yeah, the lag only seems to be about 10 15 seconds right now, which is interesting not be that much.

A

B

Last time it was more, I think so, that's okay! We can talk we're good at talking right.

A

Operator back services are operators in general uh templates are application templates and I've cut my video folks just to save bandwidth over here, um so um charts are new right.

B

A

Now that we don't have to rely on tiller for helm, we can actively use them with no security concerns.

C

The the templates are probably templates and builder images are, are probably the oldest uh longest running assets. We've had hosted in the in the catalog as long as it's been around um templates. I think we uh way back in the early days of kubernetes um submitted as a upstream uh feature proposal which didn't get accepted.

C

We were like had high hopes that was going to be kind of a upstream feature early on and helm, charts really kind of uh became the upstream favorite uh to do kind of a similar feature, so templates kind of fill a similar role as helm, charts but you'll most commonly see them available on openshift clusters, but you can interact with them using oc, get templates they're a api resource like most other kubernetes resources.

C

I find templates super easy to use as a developer and a low kind of permission barrier for adding new resources into the system. If I want to enable my junior developers or a team of developers, it's a easy way to get them start started operator, backed services.

C

You could find a lot of those in the operator hub, but they'll also be available uh via the catalog, especially if your admin has already enabled the operator made them available to the the developer side, yeah and then the builder images, uh if you're not already familiar with builder images, uh that's kind of like a uh when we are doing container based development. I mentioned getting started based on a git repo earlier.

C

These builder images are kind of the rest of the container minus the get repo, and also something that your team could work on. Trying to standardize. Red hat already has builder images for most languages and, like I mentioned earlier, wildfly.

C

What spring boot we have builder images that already have those runtime binaries and the static libraries you would need. In order for your app to run, you can build your own images for sure, but builder images uh allow you to standardize it quite a bit more um yeah. I think I'm using all of these, so multiple choice, I'm tempted to pick all four.

B

All of them yeah- and somebody just mentioned too templates- are great and easy to begin with very hard to maintain in one person's experience, um and I think you know operator back services, that's the the pro of operators. Right is that.

A

B

To maintain yeah.

C

So this is interesting, so 57.

B

Of people are using builder images, one uh 14 home, charts, 86 operator back services and 57 templates, so pretty interesting. So thanks for yeah thanks.

C

For that one and now wide varied swath there yeah operator.

B

C

Is the new favorite with this crowd, though,.

B

Yes, yeah, so the next one.

B

How useful do you think the categories feature is in the developer catalog so today, right there's this kind of like accordion, like category section up on top, where you can dive into languages and see different types of languages and look into your databases and maybe be able to select or something like that. um How you know I'm asking how useful is this? Is it very useful, somewhat not useful at all to you? That's pretty much just based on your own use cases um I think later on.

B

We'll also kind of talk about in your organization are the categories that we're shipping from red hat the ones that are right for you too right so just curious. If these are things that are um or this, this widget is something that you're used to using and look at that: okay, so somewhat useful 50 50 between somewhat and very useful, okay, okay, good.

A

To know interesting, yeah, it's not completely worthless.

C

B

More useful, the more.

C

Cluttered the the catalog is exactly.

B

Right right, the next one is: how useful do you think the filter feature is in the developer catalog. So this is a filter by keyword. So would you do something like a or again uh the name of a helmet chart, or I guess the other question is, I think, we're supporting fuzzy search here, but I'm not sure.

B

Here we go. Oh.

A

Well, there you go.

B

So this is interesting, so it doesn't wait. The full time of all eight people vote just realize that okay, so.

C

B

People feel it's very useful and 13 say somewhat useful good to know. Let's go to the next one, which will be how useful do you think the group buy operator feature is in the developer, catalog and maybe you've never even used it.

A

No, could you explain that a little bit up.

B

On the top here there is a group by usually says group by none. If operator backed is selected. What it will do is show you all of the operator backed services associated with each of the installed operators that have been installed on your cluster.

B

So um that's another question: how useful is that? Do you think? Do you like that feature? Maybe not.

B

A

I mean so I mean I like the filtering, so you have to select operator back on the side.

B

So you would have to- and this goes back to our kind of holistic approach to catalogs right, whoops yeah, so there we go somewhat and not useful at all so again, very interesting based on the fact that that's operator specific and we had a lot of people who were interested in operators. So.

A

For the next question, indeed, yeah I'm going to turn my video back on. I think I figured out what the problem was. I was uploading a ton of videos uh to the articles so yeah that'll. Do it.

B

All right so, like my filters here, yeah.

A

B

Catalog, would you like the ability to filter by provider type so community versus red hat operators, um provider, meaning it's been provided by red hat or it's from my own company or something else or capability level? So operators have capability levels, one two.

A

Five- and this is a multiple choice- question yeah.

B

This is a multiple choice question, so I'm just going to remind like if people happen to be cluster admins, they already know that when you go to operator hub, we do have the ability to kind of look at the different capability levels, which are basic, install seamless, upgrades, full life cycle. Deep insights in autopilot.

B

So is something like that, something that you're interested in knowing when you're picking something from our catalog, knowing that it's going to be automatically managed on the highest level etc. So.

A

B

A

Here, um uh let's see it's like search an app on gnome or any os, we get used to a segment of searching for words manual filters. Are, I guess, kind of unusual right like exactly right. I think this is a good point. Right, like I hit the the command space bar on my mac. I hit the you know the windows key on my linux box and I just start searching for stuff.

B

Right so free form text just seems to be the way to get to go is from what I'm hearing here.

D

B

So just so you guys know, there's eight people, I think that are in so six people have answered if the other two do not answer.

C

That means we have to.

B

Get a timeout in two seconds.

C

B

Yeah, but it's it's uh if you're still considering the options.

C

B

Hit submit thank you for listening, uh so 86 percent want provider, type and provider itself and capability level, yeah.

A

Foreign education thing right, like people might.

B

A

Understand the uh the capability matrix that we have out there.

D

A

Potentially, right like that, could be part of it.

B

C

A

They only want.

C

The most uh you know I could see folks saying I don't want to use an operator if it doesn't have an upgrade feature, or you know you know, in certain environments, you know I'm only going to put stuff in here that can be upgraded or maintained over time, or you know um whether it works reliably or not. You know is a, but you could definitely. I could see certain capabilities being uh automatic backups.

C

um You know there's a lot in the list of capabilities that you might want to have in a production environment, um for example. um I really like the uh point that uh you know just having these two questions on here. Would you like to filter red hat operators versus community and or red hat versus your own hopefully illustrates that this is a very open-ended um way of doing business. It's not all the red hat way, there's a large community of expertise.

C

You can leverage using these operators and operator hub and nice to have it presented in a clean way. So yeah, oh so.

B

D

Just asked yeah go ahead.

B

Why is this filter possibility, not an option I can configure for my console on my own, I mean that's.

A

Fantastic, yes,.

B

Very good feedback, the admin can decide what goes in to the console right, but as a developer team you might pick or choose to use something one thing over another, I think, um is that an appropriate answer? Ryan. Do you have an or chris do you guys have anything else to add on there.

A

It's configurable in a different place right like that's it right. So it's! It's really! You know you can tailor this to your needs, so we want you to do that, but we also want you to know like what all the capabilities are too right like so we don't necessarily filter for you. You know right like right.

B

We're not gonna do any pre-filtering.

A

Based off what's in there, yet maybe I mean, maybe that is something we could do. I don't know you tell me.

B

All right- and I see we just had somebody just join us streams owner. So if you have not entered uh the kahoot game, feel free to um we're going to move on to the next. um The next item and boy. Since we are saying this, we will remind everybody that serena's discussions are all about the future and uh we are nothing.

D

Might end up in the real product six.

B

Or even four seven, it might be never or what we're really trying to do is understanding what your requirements use cases and um your preferences are. So would you like a more prescriptive experience as you drill into the catalog? So what do you mean.

A

By prescriptive.

B

What I mean by that is, I think I showed this in the very beginning when you go into the developer catalog today, you see types but there's no way for us to say. If it's operator backed, do you want to filter on the capability level? Do you want to group by operators right now? What you see? There is kind of a mismatch of things that we think applies to everything, but it doesn't really so it's like. If you came into the developer catalog at first and said, oh, I want helm charts.

B

Then, when you got into the helm chart experience I could say: oh, I have three home repos. I only want to be able to look at one of these, and now I want to do some more specific helm, filtering or looking at details. um Does that make sense.

A

Yeah, it makes sense to me um okay, so this would be more like.

A

Like I choose something and then like oh yeah, only these things would apply kind of thing. Why.

B

A

B

Even show that set of filters till after give her the experience as you're looking for a pair of shoes on amazon, right, yeah.

C

B

I hit choose it's going to say what size are you, but if it showed me what size I was before, I even said shoes. What if I wanted to put buy a book, it would look.

A

Yeah so solid s, but by prescriptive, do you mean sort of defaulting filters and to an extent right like if you start building.

B

Out a helmet, exposing them right.

A

Right yeah, what's.

B

Available once you get into a more detailed or drill into that um type of thing that you're looking at so right.

A

Now the perfect way to describe that. Thank you, ryan.

B

A

So you can also think.

B

About event, sources, if that becomes a catalog experience in the future, some people might want to just look at connectors, but if we put that connector filter up front, when you were looking at home, charts that probably wouldn't go over well right, so.

A

Yeah, so this is interesting feedback from dreams owner uh just in general, not jermaine to this question, but uh think about submitting a pr for functionality for table sorting where you can sort by one row and then click sort to sort by another row while preserving the older sort, like that's, very excel type. Functionality right like it's.

B

Very spreadsheet-y.

A

I feel like that's very cool, though.

B

Yeah yeah. That sounds interesting. I wonder what your so. I wonder what the real use case is. So what what is the use.

D

B

Want to use that functionality for or that feature for definitely I'd really be interested in understanding that.

A

And then rockhound points out, maybe a sort of most used in your cluster right like greatest hits right like.

B

A

Most frequently used uh resources in your cluster kind of thing might be a good option as well. Yep.

D

B

Okay, we've got the so there's somebody who hasn't pushed the button yet so we're still going to wait. Those 40.

A

To 66., depending on which screen you're looking at.

B

So uh so this is an interesting piece about this new tool that we're using so live and learn. um Oh, we got eight answers.

A

Yeah, so it should be soon yeah, so I mean we do need a polling thing for this channel. We you know- and this is this- is what we're testing I think. We've we've found that we definitely want the ability to hit continue yeah in our polling solution.

C

In public on this channel, yeah.

B

C

Nice work serena on the the quick action to extend the timer and and re-uh submit the this. Is this.

B

C

B

This is fun. Thank.

C

B

No problem, all right, so would you like more prescriptive experience, 50, say definitely and 50 say maybe they're unsure and that's totally valid right right.

C

Like they don't know what it is, don't know what you want.

B

C

B

The flow looks like and then you're like. Oh that's, not what I thought it was going to be no way right.

D

B

What I thought it would be.

D

B

Right right, so, let's go to the next one, so I think these are going to become around oh one, more okay. So when you go to the developer catalog, do you typically know what you're looking for? Thus you search or filter until you find it, or do you just want to browse and kind of look around to see? What's offered an interesting one.

A

Yeah, that is an interesting one, because I know I do the brows and look around after every release. Oh, it's a multiple choice.

C

A

Oh, it is oh damn I can.

D

B

D

Maybe I should have had more.

B

Of like a weighted question, how frequently.

C

B

Than the other, but it is interesting because when we were talking about some people who might not have been on when we were talking about this earlier, we were talking about in the topology view. Should we have like a quick search or a quick ad where I want to just say. Oh, I want to add I'm just going to type in. It will show me all of the available operators operator back services, a template, whatever it happens to be, and I can quickly add it from there.

C

Yeah, I think, I'm more typically on the side of the equation. Where I'm, I usually already know what I'm looking for and I'm more likely interested in hiding things from the junior developers. So they don't pick the wrong node.js or the r you know like. I want to clean up the catalog, uh so folks have a shorter view. Almost.

C

I know there's plenty of ways to do that, um but I think that's more with the experience level and the the type of folks that I work with, um if I was newer or just exploring, I'd, definitely be searching around, and I definitely do that as well, because I need to keep up to date on what's changed in the operator world and so just browsing through the catalog. Oh wow, there's a new, you know the mongodb now has automatic, backups or, or you know, they've added something new in there.

C

So I definitely do a bit of both.

B

A couple interesting things I heard there is that you were saying you'd like a different view than some other people that you're working with, and I wonder if I heard you say that you'd like to limit what some of the junior developers see versus what you see.

C

B

Yeah, maybe strip.

C

Out some things out of the catalog or yeah, I don't know, maybe give them a auto filter. That's penned in there something yeah an.

B

Applied filter.

C

B

C

B

Team yeah, when we're thinking about this kind of quick, add or quick filter from the topology view. You also because I think I just saw somebody say something about they might want- not want to see operator back services. So might they want to be able to say I want a quick search, but I have some default criteria.

A

B

A

B

Things I would never want, and.

A

Right, I never use templates or whatever right like.

B

A

Have foreboding helm, charts from our infrastructure for some reason right, like yeah, like there's all kinds of reasons why that could be a possibility? Yeah yeah, interesting yeah. This.

C

Is this is wonderful.

A

Feedback y'all. This is also.

C

Partially, why I always liked templates is because they were just a kubernetes resource and they already respected all the r back and everything else, and they were only visible to folks that I put into that namespace.

C

And so, if you were in the namespace, you saw the templates in the namespace and that's all you need to see mission accomplished and so.

B

C

Like making a catalog and everything it was just oc, get templates. That's you know.

B

C

A lot simpler, oh.

B

Look at this, so this is interesting. 89 know what they're looking for interesting, yeah.

A

I mean I would expect that to be the case right, like I'm, not going to jump into openshift, just fumbling around usually right.

D

A

I'm going to jump into that.

D

A

And probably know what I'm up to.

B

Yeah yeah well, which is cool too, because then you think about that case, where we were talking about the quick search or quick ad from topology. It makes that even more strong right. That makes that that use case um even more. I think so.

A

Dreams owner wants a bulk delete, so you can remove completed.

B

Failed pods etc. So.

A

B

Interesting because uh ali from the future, who is not here, might be able to talk about that, because that is something that is being worked on from a design perspective and.

A

So and then rockhound comments, maybe you can add a role binding to limit the template view. Our record would be good for that. So, okay, maybe okay, that's okay! Great idea! I mean.

B

A

No bad ideas on the show right now, right, like.

B

Exactly all right so.

A

B

Think we've got three.

C

Yeah uh just a time.

B

C

Are at 9 50 right now, so we have about 10 minutes before the top of the hour is uh okay. Commons still on at the top of the hour.

A

No, no, no commons isn't running today. They had the all-day thing yesterday, so yeah.

C

You're gonna conquer.

A

The run over today, all right.

B

So this one is around that uh ability to customize categories in the developer. Catalog. So does your company organization group? Do you think you have requirements that you'd want to be able to add your own categories here or on the flip side, remove some of the ones.

C

B

Never use right clean that thing up a little bit, um so we have had a couple of strong customer requests on this actually around the ability to do that. Like oh I've added something new to the catalog.

B

D

I labeled it appropriately.

B

D

B

Don't get to see it because I can't actually change my categories so.

B

There we go so yes, 63 percenter, yes, 38. Maybe interesting, no knows so. That's great great feedback! Okay, awesome! Awesome! um Let's see, we got two left and we'll see if we do both of them. But does your organization have the need for featured content? So you'll see this on many of our competitors content, maybe or like.

C

A banner ad at the top of the catalog yeah.

B

Here's the four things that we're recommending that everybody uses this week right, something like that. uh I.

D

Like that, yeah.

B

um Again, this has been something that we have heard kind of.

A

Ryan in there from dreams, owners.

C

A

Let's see um it's unrelated, but yeah, you could probably answer that in chat easily enough or live as we wait here.

C

Oh dev files with oc, like you, uh that's a that uh I might have to get back to you on.

D

B

It's interesting that people have brought up dev files, because I was gonna bring that up with the future serena thing, but you know, dev files will also come into play in our developer. Catalog yeah.

A

Asking what is featured content here, I think we answered that, but it this would be like things that you specifically say. Please use this over this.

B

Yeah, it might be a subset of the catalog that your admin is saying. Oh, these are things or your your project app, not not. Cluster administrator.

C

B

These are the things we think you should be looking at. We even way back when had some requirements around. If we ever in implemented a search that we should have a weighted search based on what the admin thought was best to use which was interesting, yeah so 50, yes, maybe, and no or 25 25., okay,.

A

B

A

A junior dev filter, that's what they want. Maybe.

B

A

Of upvote down.

D

A

Content gives you a sense of how popular.

D

A

Things are well yeah. We would definitely mention indiana tux. You mentioned someone had mentioned sorry, I forget who but yeah like what's most used in the cluster right like they would.

B

Want that highlighted.

A

Kind of thing so that that is interesting, yeah.

B

Okay, so we've got one more question: should we try it? It's 11 53 yeah.

A

Eastern standard.

B

Time: okay, let's go with one more! I don't remember what it is. Okay, oh, this is when adding to your application, would you like the option to do this quick, search and add from the topology view.

D

B

Than having to jump back out to the catalog, would you like a little search feature right? There.

B

You would imagine that that would decrease the amount of context changes, but it might also you might like.

A

That ability to.

D

B

Else to do an ad so would be interesting to see where that happens, ryan.

A

You have an idea for next week already, isn't that great.

C

Yeah yeah I've been wanting to do the dev files uh topic for a while. um I think natalie vento on our team.

B

C

Is probably the most experienced on that topic so I'll uh I'll see if he's available next week? uh No promises yet because I gotta check in with him um but yeah, I think uh dev files is a definitely a hot topic. I've been wanting to level up on um and so yeah. Thank you dream zoner for suggesting it.

A

Yeah, yeah and and tell natalie that I asked really nicely.

C

All right, yeah, I think he's at kubecon today so say.

A

Hello to natalie.

C

If you, if you run into him,.

A

No yeah he's man he well. He was uh in the booth earlier today when I was with him so yeah uh before I joined here, I was in our red hat booth and red hat slack channel and the cncf shellac and everything so yeah yeah.

C

If you are attending, if you're attending kubecon feel free to head right on over to the red hat booth and asked natalie in the booth about yeah.

A

C

And if you don't have.

A

A pass to kubecon, you can get an expo hall pass for free and come and ask all the vendors all the questions you want. So just go to the cubecon.io hit register. You can get a free, expo hall pass right now and you can come and ask us all the questions you want. There.

B

Awesome all right. Well, I think uh thank you, everybody for participating in this poll. Hopefully it was um interesting for you because it was enlightening for us.

A

Definitely enlightening yeah.

B

A

Nip all this chat for you too awesome and.

B

I'm also gonna save the results of this and we can share it out somewhere, so people can access it if they're interested and one more thing I'd like to do- and I always ask if anybody is willing to give any information on how you think this openshift developer experience office hour is working out, we'd love to hear it. um It also gives the opportunity to provide your email if you do want to interact with us for some more um one-on-one type sessions.

A

Yeah, if you've got more we're we're all yours you're, always we.

B

Want to hear it.

A

Definitely definitely definitely want to hear from our our users, our customers, our folks, that are just out there, building containers on a regular basis and what would make their life a little bit better.

C

A

C

Short link for uh like a red hat landing page for kubecon, um I pasted.

B

C

The main kubecon landing page- I have a folks in chat, had a a follow-up on how do they find our sponsor booth and other things.

A

So uh there's our events page, so it's the the cubecom platform. The virtual platform is the same platform we use for summit. So if you remember correctly red hat summit, you had to like jump through a bunch of links to actually get to the thing I'm going to try and make it very easy.

A

When you log into the the the the an expo in trotto interface, there's an expo hall link, uh expo hall, little view kind of thing: click, that's in the bottom, left of that first page there and then you will see like diamond sponsors. That's where we are. I click that and then red hat, and that should get you there. If not ping me on twitter, and I will help you out at chris short- I will get you in there. Don't you worry, I will help you figure out where to go and yeah again.

A

Thank you so much for joining us today. Everybody really appreciate your feedback. This has been really fun for me, especially yeah, expo hall diamond reddit. There you go rocky, I'm perfect. Thank you um so yeah uh anything.

C

Else, thanks for keeping the machines warm chris uh keeping the stream going.

D

A

Through the first.

C

A

Thank you for tolerating.

B

It I'm very sorry, it happened.

A

B

Our on our on a show we're trying to get feedback. I'm very sorry.

A

About that serena, but no.

B

It's awesome, hey. It was a great great discussion. So thanks to everybody.

A

Yeah, thank you so much. We will catch you, let's see. When are we on the air again we're trying not to do too much this week because of coupon, but tomorrow we do have the level up hour.

A

So if you're new to containers or your junior devs, which I'm hearing there are quite a few of apparently uh are new to some of these concepts right like bring them onto the level up hour, we'll get you we'll get you familiar with some containers and and get you up to speed with you know, working in your environment with containers, uh you know it's designed for the the rel, admins and sysadmins of the world to to to embrace containers and cloud-native technologies, but you might pick up a couple of the little tricks yourself too.

A

I know I have along the way langen's a genius when it comes to containers. So it's super awesome to to to just have him for an hour, so yeah, please come by tomorrow at uh 9 00 a.m: eastern 1, 500 cest, since we're in the uh amsterdam time zone this week.

A

Thank you both ryan. Thank you, serena! Thank you. Everyone for joining- and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your days.

B

Thank you thanks. Everybody thanks see you next time.

D

D