►
Description
Sophisticated cloud platforms now offer more opportunities for businesses to operate more efficiently and effectively than ever before if you know how to use these new tools appropriately. In this episode, Deepak Singh, Vice President of Compute Services Amazon Web Services, joins host Stu Miniman to explore the questions businesses are asking themselves about adopting the latest technology trends like containers and serverless. They'll discuss some of the news and takeaways from the recent AWS re:Invent event and how to balance customer demands when creating new services and the partner ecosystem. Join us to learn more about what the future may look like for enterprise containers and cloud IT.
Follow us:
Stu Miniman https://twitter.com/stu
Deepak Singh https://twitter.com/mndoci
OpenShift https://twitter.com/openshift
Subscribe to Red Hat's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/redhat/?sub_confirmation=1
About OpenShift:
Red Hat OpenShift is an open source container application platform based on the Kubernetes container orchestrator for enterprise application development and deployment.
Openshift.com http://red.ht/3nJ6AKX
OpenShift on github https://github.com/openshift/
OpenShift on redhat.com http://red.ht/34xQoER
#RedHat #Cloud #AWS
A
B
We
figured
no
better
way
to
kick
off
the
inaugural
episode
of
2022,
then
to
have
a
guess
from
the
company
that
most
people
think
about
when
they
think
about
the
public
cloud
amazon,
web
services.
So
welcoming
to
the
program
deepak
singh
he's
the
vice
president
of
compute
services
at
the
aforementioned
aws
deepak
great
to
see
you
thanks
so
much
for
joining
me.
A
B
Yeah,
so
you
know,
roles
change,
you
know
I.
I
changed
hats
about
gosh
more
than
a
year
ago
now,
but
yeah
you
and
I
have
been
talking
since
really
some
of
the
early
days
of
containers.
So
you
know
deepak,
I
wonder
if
we
could
start
there.
You
know
you've
gotten
a
really
interesting
background,
you're,
the
second
phd
in
chemistry
that
I
know
that's
deep
in
tech.
A
good
friend
of
mine,
john
troyer,
you
know
also
is
a
phd
in
chemistry,
and
you
know
it's
one
of
those.
Okay.
B
How
do
you
get
there?
I
mean
I
started
engineering.
I
thought
I'd
be
working
on.
You
know,
rockets
and
robots
and
stuff
like
that
and
ended
up
here
in
the
it
industry.
You
know
for,
for
my
entire
career,
you've
been
with
amazon
over
13
years.
Kubernetes
didn't
exist.
Containers
would
be
something
that
if
you
were
talking
to
the
solaris
people
about-
or
you
know,
there's
probably
some
linux
people
that
knew
what
you
know.
Linux
containers
were
but
well
before.
You
know,
docker
helped
democratize
this,
for
it.
B
A
A
It's
this
thing
that
does
protein
folding
protein
structure
prediction
that's
kind
of
what
I
did
in
my
in
grad
school
a
lot
and
at
my
first
job
that's
I
wrote
algorithms
to
detect
protein
structures,
actually
the
kind
of
things
that
you
know
I'm
quite
jealous.
I
almost
want
to
go
back
and
do
some
of
that
research
again,
because
computers
and
machine
learning
have
come
such
a
long
way
since
then,
but
long
story
short.
I
was
always
on
the
computational
side
of
chemistry.
So
I
was
you
know.
A
My
twitter
handle
is
a
piece
of
code
and
it's
actually
some
theory
that
I
did
in
grad
school
and
I
have
such
a
common
name
that
when
I
was
first
going
online
long
long
time
ago
in
the
90s
finding
a
handle
was
really
hard.
So
I
went
ahead
and
picked
one
that
I
figured
that
the
only
other
person
who
would
ever
think
about
it
was
my
grad
school
advice.
B
A
So
it
went
for
so
you
know,
because
I
had
a
computational
background.
I
started
off
doing
algorithm
work
for
doing
protein
structure
predictions
somewhere
along
the
way
I
end
up
becoming
a
product
manager
for
software
that
I
happen
to
have
code
in
so
I
got
into
you
know,
product
management,
and
that
brought
me
to
seattle
at
some
point
still
working
in
life
sciences
more
on
the
genomic
side.
This
time
and
like
this
is
actually
things
like
rna
and
mrna
and
gene
expression
and
sequencing,
and
I
met
this
gentleman
named
jeff
barr.
A
B
Wow
that
that's
yeah
really
interesting
journey.
It's
always
interesting
to
talk
to
people
kind
of
that
we
know.
Career
paths.
Don't
tend
to
be
all
that
linear,
but
you've
been
with
amazon.
You
know,
since,
since
you
came
on
board,
you
said
product
manager,
you
started,
you
know
in
the
ec2
side
of
things,
give
us
a
little
bit
your
macro
view.
Here
we
are
in
2022
boy,
I
mean
at
reinvent.
You
know.
B
Not
only
did
you
have
a
leadership
session,
but
you
know
your
ceo
adam
talked
a
bunch
about
all
of
these
wonderful
services
that
have
containers
wrapped
around
it.
You
know
werner
talked
so
much
about
you
know
so
many
services
where
you
know
it's
either
containers
or
containers
underpinning
so
much
of
what's
going
on,
so
you
know
give
us
a
little
bit
about.
You
know
the
your
organization
and
how
that
how
that
fits
in
the
the
behemoth
that
is
aws
today.
A
You
know
and,
as
you
said,
I
started
off
in
the
ec2
side.
East
run
product
management
for
ec2
instances,
so
you
know
for
some
of
the
weird
naming
and
the
sheer
variety
of
instances.
I'm
sure
I
can
take
some
of
the
credit
and
I
guess
some
of
the
blame,
but
it
was
pretty
clear.
You
know
one
of
the
things
I
said.
I
said
this
in
my
leadership
session.
Treatment
is
the
way
people
are
building
and
deploying
code
today
would
have
happened.
Whether
containers
existed
or
not.
A
You
had
already
started
seeing
it
happen
with
the
way
netflix
did
things,
which
was
you
know,
packaging
up,
armies,
amazon,
machine
images
and
deploying
them
as
immutable
units.
A
lot
of
other
people
had
started
taking
that
approach
along
the
way
this
docker
thing
came
along,
and
I
think
what
docker
did
apart
from
having
a
cute
logo,
which
I
think
helped
a
little,
was
it
really
really
made
that
packaging
and
deploying
side
very
simple?
A
The
fact
that
you
could
do
docker
run
docker
build
docker,
push
really
opened
the
eyes
of
people,
and
I
think
the
one
or
two
things
that
have
happened
because
of
containers
are
one.
I
would
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
the
packaging
format,
the
oci
format
now
has
become
the
standard
way
of
packaging
software
in
many
ways-
and
you
see
this
across
even
lambda-
now
supports
containers
as
a
way
to
package
a
lambda
function.
A
So
I
think
that's
become
quite
the
standard
and
I
think
the
other
parts
of
containers
are
actually
less
about
the
container
itself
and
more
about
the
orchestration.
The
container-
and
you
know
you
actually
don't
even
deploy
a
single
container
in
many
of
these
cases,
you're
deploying
a
task
or
a
pod
or
some
bundle
of
containers.
It's
it's.
The
mechanics
of
the
fact
that
you
have
these
orchestration
apis,
your
deployment,
apis,
etc,
sort
of
built
into
how
you're
running
things
and
this
so
it's
difficult
to
say,
which
is
the
chicken
and
which
is
the
egg.
A
A
I
guess
you
know
all
kinds
of
crazy
places,
and
you
had
all
this
wonderful,
orchestration,
tooling,
that
grew
up
around
it
that
had
deployments
and
blue
green
all
that
built
in
that
made
all
made
containers
that
as
popular
as
they
have
today
and
yes,
I
think
it's
reasonable
to
say-
and
you
probably
see
it
on
the
red
hat
side
is
today
when
people
are
building
a
new
application
on
aws,
almost
invariably
it's
written
for
containers
or
for
lambda,
like
it's
very
rare,
that
somebody
is
going
to
write
an
application
today.
That
is
vm.
B
Yeah-
and
I
guess
you
know
it
brings
up
a
really
interesting
point.
So
if,
if
I
you
know,
if
I'm
existing
customer,
you
know
the
the
the
born
in
the
cloud
customers,
you
know
absolutely
I'm
going
to
be
starting.
If
I
go
on
amazon,
you
know
serverless
containers,
you
know,
of
course,
that
makes
sense.
I
want
to
be
cloud
native.
You
know
I
did
a
whole
series.
B
You
know
towards
the
end
of
my
time
on
the
cube
and
said
you
know,
look
cloud,
get
natives,
isn't
just
about
containers
or
serverless,
there's
a
lot
more
from
the
application
architecture
standpoint.
But
if
I
take
a
traditional
enterprise,
I've
got
an
entire
application
portfolio
and
going
from
what
I
have
to
being
you
know,
more
cloud
native,
isn't
necessarily
an
easy
step.
So
deepak
help
me
understand
when
you're
talking
to
customers
that
there's,
I
guess
I
look
at
the
two
accesses
the
axes.
There's
the
you
know
the
infrastructure
piece
going
from.
B
You
know
a
vm
to
container
or
serverless,
and
then
there's
you
know
how
I
architect
my
application.
Getting
to
that
ultimate.
You
know
modern
environment.
Doing
it
all
at
once,
isn't
necessarily
easy.
What
are
you
seeing,
you
know,
has
anything
changed
from
customers
that
you're
seeing
today
versus
you
know,
customers,
you
know
a
year
or
two
ago
where
we
didn't
necessarily
have
the
maturity
in
the
container
or
serverless
world
yeah.
A
All
of
the
above
really-
and
it
also
you
have
to
remember
that
aws
customer
base
has
evolved
a
lot
in
the
last
few
years.
I
mean
you've
gone
from
the
instagrams
and
the
netflix's
of
the
world
to
large
enterprises,
and
you
just
see
adam's
stock
agreement
where
you
had.
You
know
some
very
well
established
enterprises
there,
and
quite
honestly,
even
companies
that
are
kind
of
between
the
digital
natives
and
the
large
enterprises
that
are
maybe
don't
have
very
large,
I.t
stuff.
A
So
it's
you
know,
depending
on
who
you
are
you,
take
different
approaches,
I'll,
actually
talk
of
some
of
these
large
enterprises
that
may
have
adopted
the
cloud
in
some
ways
a
few
years
ago,
but
are
really
going
in
all
in
right.
Now
I
think
it's
pretty
clear.
Most
of
the
new
applications
are
written
for
the
cloud
I
mean,
that's
that's
happening,
and
I
would
argue
that
one
of
the
reasons
kubernetes
has
been
as
successful
as
it
is.
Is
they
may
not
be
fully
ready
and
two
three
years
ago?
A
They
were
definitely
not
awfully
ready
to
go
into
the
cloud,
but
they
wanted
some
of
those
benefits
on
deployments
and
immutability
and
the
best
practices
of
running
modern
applications,
but
they
didn't
have
any
way
of
building
them
on
prem
either.
I
think
one
of
the
reasons
kubernetes
really
succeeded
was
the
fact
that
it
gave
them
that
path
where
they
could
take
that.
Take
that
and
and
deploy
it
wherever
they
wanted,
and
so
it
was,
they
were
hedging
their
bets.
A
They
could
stay
on
prem,
they
could
go
to
a
cloud
and
they
weren't
sure
which
way
they
were
going.
So
I
think
that
really
really
helped
accelerate
the
adoption
of
communities,
which
is
why
you
see
things
like
financial
services,
institutions
jumping.
You
know
right
into
the
deep
end
very
quickly,
and
you
see
this
in
openshift
world
and
we'll
talk
about
that
a
little
bit.
A
I'm
sure
in
this
conversation,
I
think
the
more
tricky
ones
is
is-
and
I
think
this
is
where
we
have
to
be
honest,
like
there
are
some
applications
that
maybe
you
should
never
contain
voice
it.
Just
doesn't
make
sense,
that's
why
you
have
things
like
mainframe
migration
programs
to
help
figure
out
how
to
move
those
into
the
cloud
in
ways
that
are
safe
for
those
and
some
might
stay
on
prem
for
a
very
long
time.
That's
why
things
like
outposts
exist
like
okay.
A
You
want
a
bit
of
aws
running
next
to
apps
that
you
cannot
move,
but
you
need
them.
Co-Located
they'll
give
you
a
rack
of
ec2
instances
effectively
on
which
you
can
run
aws
services.
So
I
think
we
see
the
full
gamut
of
I'm
not
going
to
move
this.
It's
going
to
stay
to.
There
are
pieces
that
I
can
break
out
and
I
think
that's
probably
the
way
we
see
a
lot
of
activity
is
people
starting
to
break
up
pieces
and
seeing
what
can
be
modernized
and
then,
of
course,
the
whole
here's
an
app.
A
A
B
Yeah
yeah,
no,
absolutely
I'm
glad
you
brought
up
there's
certain.
You
know
we
talk
about
the
almost
the
religious
wars
that
we
have
in
inside
attack.
You
know,
but
remember
back,
you
know,
go
back
a
dozen
15
years
ago.
It
was
you
know.
There
is
only
one
cloud
into
the
public
cloud
and
you
know
aws
was
the
what
was
was
the
leader
in
that
space?
One
of
you,
you
touched
briefly
on
you,
know,
containers
and
serverless,
and
how
those
live
together
for
a
number
of
years.
B
You
know
the
the
the
serverless,
you
know,
I
guess
you'd
say
almost
the
warriors
out
there.
The
ones
that
are
like
serverless
is
the
best,
and
I
don't
know
why
you're
wasting
your
time
on
containers
and
kubernetes,
you
know,
that's
gonna,
you
know
be
short-lived.
Serverless
is
the
only
way
to
do
things.
I
interviewed
andy
jassy
once
and
he
had
said
a
few
years
ago.
He
said
if
I
was
to
build
aws
today.
I
would
build
it
all
on
serverless.
B
Well,
serverless
is
sure,
feeling
more
and
more
like
it
ties
into
containers
today
and
if
I
look
at
containers,
I'm
doing
more
and
more
things
to
have
that
serverless
way
of
of
my
management,
my
developers
don't
need
to
think
about
the
containers.
We've
got
things
like
fargate
and
k
native
that
abstract.
If
you
will-
or
at
least
you
know
from
a
developer,
I
don't
need
to
think
about
that.
So
inside
amazon.
Am
I
right
that
you
know
it's
more
of
a
spectrum.
B
A
I
mean
the
way
I
think
about.
It
is
pretty
simple
and
you
know
what
andy
said
is
not
completely
untrue.
It's
like
today,
when
you're
building
a
front-end
api
at
aws,
the
chances
are
it's
going
to
be
serverless.
In
fact,
a
lot
of
my
container
services
at
the
front
end
are
all
serverless,
they're
all
running
api
gateway
and
lambda.
A
That's
just
easy
makes
the
team's
lives
easier,
backhands,
it's
a
little
more
mixed
right
back
and
seem
to
often
be
contained
right,
which
is
why
you
see
so
many
aws
services
built
on
containers
as
well,
and
we
see
this
with
our
customers.
I
think
we
all
pragmatic,
we
learn
from
each
other.
We've
learned
a
lot
from
what
the
serverless
and
nsa
serverless
here
I
mean
sort
of
the
event-driven
lambda
style
serverless,
and
I
think
that
is.
A
How
to
think
about
it
as
customers
think
about
events,
as
you
think
about
event
integrations
and
one
of
lambda's
duties
is,
it
is
scale
free.
It
is
you
don't
have
to
think
about.
You
know
connecting
things
from
one
thing
to
another
to
a
third
thing
over
there,
because
those
are
all
built
in
in
many
ways.
So
if
that
is
the
mode
in
which
you're
operating
you
should
absolutely
be
thinking
in
that
context,
but
there
are
places
where
you
will
have
requirements
to
have
you
know.
A
Lambda
is
one
invoke
one
process
where
you
want
to
multi-thread
that
that's
how
your
application
is
written,
that's
how
you
want
to
write
your
applications,
and
today
I
mean
today
on
aws,
for
example,
whether
it's
internal
external,
a
good
chunk
of
those
customers,
end
up
running
on
something
like
ecs,
fargate
or
running
on
kubernetes,
and
I
think,
for
a
long
time
you
will
see
that
it's
not
uncommon.
It's
kind
of
funny.
A
It's
not
even
funny.
A
lot
of
our
like
a
lot
of
my
services
are
containers
at
the
back
end
serverless
at
the
front
end,
so
for
a
lot
of
our
customers
and
you'll
find
different
inside
any
of
our
customers.
You'll
find
different
business
units
and
central
ide,
making
the
decisions
that
work
for
them
based
on
how
they
want
to
run
things
and
what
they're
capable
of,
and
you
know,
I'm
an
old
pearl
guy,
there's
always
more
than
one
way
to
do
it,
and
I
think
our
customers
kind
of
do
embody
that.
B
Yeah
and
deepak
you,
you
teed
up
a
really
interesting
discussion
we
have
in
in
the
in
the
amazon
space.
There's
that
paradox
of
choice,
there's
so
many
services
out
there.
You
know
werner
got
up
on
stage
and
he
says
the
reason
we
have
over
200
services
is
because
we
listen
to
you
as
customers,
I
loved
in
your
leadership
session.
You
had
a
phrase.
You
said
we
meet
customers
at
the
threshold
of
pain
that
they
want.
So
maybe
talk
a
little
bit
to
you
know.
B
A
A
A
Maybe
you
want
to
go
with
something
like
lambda
or
approach,
I'm
just
simplifying
here,
but
that's
the
discussion
we
can't
have
and
I
think,
as
our
customers
evolve,
when
you
get
a
bigger
variety
of
customers,
we
have
to
help
them
get
from
point
a
to
point
b,
because
what
I
do
find
it's
kind
of.
Why
why
I
think
massimo
gave
that
talk
was
we
were
having
we're
getting
these
questions?
Also,
where
should
I
start
people
who
come
in
with
their
expectations
like
I
want
to
run
kubernetes
I
want
to
run
flag.
A
A
So
I
think
that's
kind
of
what
the
goal
of
that
talk
was
you'll,
find
us
doing
multiple
things
you'll
find
us
giving
talks
like
that.
That
sort
of
give
people
a
way
of
thinking
about
put
yourself
in
this
flowchart
somewhere
and
see
where
you
end
up,
knowing
very
well
that
you
can
go
in
different
directions.
A
But
I
think
what
you'll
also
end
up
see
us
end
up
doing
is
give
people
more
opinionated
services
and
options.
But
you
know
that's
where
things
like
approach
proton
might
come
in.
It's
like
hey.
You
want
to
build
apps
a
particular
way
using
infrastructure
as
code
and
containers,
and
you
want
to
build
a
developer
platform.
We
have
proton
for
you.
B
Yeah
no
deepak
and
thank
you
you
bring
up
with
openshift.
You
know
we
always
have
that
challenge.
Is
you
know
certain
customers
they
come
to
us
because
we
can
give
in
an
opinionated
here's
what
we've
learned
from
our
thousands
of
customers
and
here's
the
path
that
we
recommend.
Other
companies,
our
development
team.
We've
made
our
choices.
We
know
what
we're
doing
you
know
we
want
to
do
things
our
way.
It's
like!
Well,
you
know
one
of
the
nice
things
about
containers
and
kubernetes
is
you
can
have
flexibility
yeah,
but
it's
it's
it's
it's
like.
B
A
A
huge
I
quote
on
calero
all
the
time,
my
favorite
character
on
the
show,
no-
and
I
think
that's
true-
take
rosa.
For
example,
we
have
our
own
kubernetes
service,
we
have
other
people
running
their
own
kubernetes
and
aws,
and
we
work
pretty
closely
with
them.
You
know
just
going
back
a
little
bit,
I
see
our
team
as
not
an
eks
team.
I
see
them
as
a
kubernetes
team
and
eks
is
one
of
the
vehicles,
but
there
are
a
whole
bunch
of
customers.
A
You
know
them
really
well
who
like
openshift
and
have
committed
to
using
openshift
and
are
super
interested,
some
very
large
companies,
and
instead
of
telling
them
to
go
pound
sand
or
figure
it
out
yourself
or
go.
You
know,
I
think
both
of
us
came
to
the
realization
where
we
could
say
hey.
How
can
we
work
together
to
give
them
an
even
better
experience
in
aws
and
we'll
keep
doing
that
as
long
as
there's
sufficient
interest
in
the
right
volume
and
type
of
customer?
A
It
makes
complete
sense.
You
know-
and
I've
often
jokingly
said
I
can
say
this
about
a
message
because
very
few
people
use
it
now.
But
if
somebody
came
to
enough
customers
came
to
us
today
and
said:
hey,
can
you
build
us
a
managed
maze
of
service
and
it's
the
next?
The
next
best
things
life
spread?
We
look
at
it.
We
may
not
choose
to
do
it,
but
we
look
at
it
because
there
is,
there
are
no.
There
are
no
secret
cows
so
to
speak.
B
Yeah
well
deep
packet,
you
know
from
a
philosophy
standpoint,
you
know,
amazon,
you've
got
all
of
the
primitives
you've
made
certain
services
to
you
know,
make
it
easier
for
customers
concern
and
then
there's
the
ecosystem.
The
partners,
as
you
said,
you
know,
I
get
questions
all
the
time
it's
like.
Well,
you
know,
you've
got
ecs
and
eks
and
fargating
all
those
thumb.
You
know
why
is
it
rosa
and
I'm
like?
B
Well,
it's
it's
deepak's
team,
where
the
same
team
is
working
with
us
and
there's
a
set
of
customers
and
there's
things
that
we've
delivered,
that
that's
what
they
want
and
you
know
right.
It's
not
people
have
from
the
outside
that
don't
know
amazon
as
well
as
others
are
like.
Well,
no,
no
you're
going
to
conquer
the
world
and
push
out
everyone
else
so
that
you
make
all
the
money
it's
like.
Well,
you
know
what
what
is
the
what's
the
guiding
principle
on
that
d-pack.
A
Yeah
I
mean
the
guiding
principle
is
really
very.
It's
simple
is
how
can
we
help
our
customers
achieve
their
outcomes?
You
know
whether
in
in
one
case,
it's
working
with
you
and
on
rosa
that's
an
easier
decision
to
make,
because
we've
worked
with
red
hat
for
such
a
long
time
on
things
like
rel
I
used
to
when
I
was
in
ec2,
I
used
to
own
the
relationship
from
an
operating
system
standpoint.
A
I
run
the
linux
team
today
you
know,
and
so
my
team
builds
amazon,
linux
and
border
rocket,
but
at
the
same
time
we
have
a
team,
that's
fully
dedicated
to
making
sure
that
we
work
with
red
hat
and
well.
We
always
do
what
our
customers
want
to
do.
You
know,
obviously
those
are
intentional
decisions.
It
has
to
make
sense
for
us
and
for
the
partner
and
for
the
customer,
but
that
that's
you
know,
that's
generally
the
approach
and
containers
in
particular.
A
B
B
A
So
I
happen
to
run
the
amazon
open
source
program
office,
so
these
are
folks
who
help
amazon
engineers,
the
more
effective
open
source
contributors
and
also
on
things
like
making
sure
that
we,
when
we
ingest
packages
they
have
the
right
licenses
on
them
and
all
of
that
stuff.
So
you
know
it's
a
legal
side,
compliance
side
as
well
as
the
enablement
side.
The
approach
we
take
is
quite
simple.
It's
not
you
know
in
general.
A
The
approach
we
take
today
is
the
first
question
we
ask
is,
if
you're
doing
something
is,
should
it
be
open
source
or
not?
And
if
not,
why
we
ask
ourselves
that
question.
It's
a
standard
question
we
ask
on
any
of
any
of
the
sort
of
well-known
amazon
pr
facts
these
days
and
in
some
cases
and
eks
is
a
great
example.
We
take
an
open
source
first
approach,
anything
that
the
eks
team
develops
outside
of
the
control
plane.
A
That's
used
to
run
kubernetes,
that's
you
know,
we
are
the
only
people
who
care
about
it
because
you're
running
it
with
amazon,
tooling,
it
should,
or
we
always
ask
ourselves
the
question:
should
this
be
open
source
and
so
far
every
single
time?
The
answer
has
been
yes.
A
great
example
of
that
is
carpenter,
which
we
announced
that
you
know
as
ga
at
reinvent,
which
is
a
provisioning
and
scaling
engine.
A
We
could
have
just
built
it
into
eks
as
an
eks
feature
we
chose
not
to
we
did
it
as
an
open
source
capability
that
anyone
running
on
aws,
whether
you're
using
eks
or
not,
can
leverage
and
we've
built
it
in
such
a
way
that
if
you
want
to
use
it
outside
aws,
you
can
also
do
that.
You
know
bottle
rocket
same
thing,
so
we've,
I
think
the
approach
we
try
and
take
for
the
most
part-
and
I
think,
we're
still
figuring
out.
A
A
We
want
to
make
sure
that
what
we're
offering
is
brings
our
experience
and
what
we
believe
is
a
good
way
of
doing
it
and
trying
to
do
it
in
such
a
way
that
people
can
leverage
not
just
on
aws
but
elsewhere
as
well
may.
Will
it
always
be
that
big,
maybe
probably
not
at
some
point,
we'll
probably
have
something
very
doesn't
make
sense,
but
by
and
large
that's
the
way
we
approach
it.
Yeah.
B
Well,
well,
deepak,
it's
great
to
see.
I
know
from
a
container
standpoint
if
I
want
to
know
the
amazon
roadmap
it's
on
github,
so
it
makes
it
really
easy.
It's
open!
If
you
want
to
know
that
you
know
the
joiner
offering
that
we
have
with
the
red
hat
openshift
service
on
aws.
Where
is
it
it's
on
github?
So
it's
nice!
You
know
it's
something!
Obviously
we
believe
deeply
in
at
red
hat
and
we're
super
glad
to
see
you
know
aws.
A
B
So
just
want
to
circle
back
to
the
you
know
the
customer
discussion.
So,
at
the
end
of
the
day
you
know,
containers
kubernetes.
The
reason
that
exists
is
its
infrastructure
is
to
run
the
applications.
That's
what
matters
the
business,
my
data,
it's
my
application
and
there's
often
a
you
know.
Skill
gap
between
you
know
knowledge
that
my
team
needs
to
know
and
the
gap
between
the
infrastructure,
people
and
the
applications.
People
yeah.
What
are
you
seeing
these
days?
What
are
some
of
the
biggest
challenges
that
customers
have?
How
is
an
industry?
A
I
would
actually
argue
that
is
the
biggest
challenge
we
have
you've
probably
heard
me
right.
You
know
I
won't
say
rant
about
it,
get
on
a
soapbox
about
it.
It's
probably
a
better
way
of
saying
it.
You
know
I
feel
like
sometimes
in
the
container
world.
We
have
regressed
a
little
by
making
these
boundaries
worse
than
they
used
to
be
when
ec2
came
about
now.
A
Obviously,
ec2
was
very
familiar
interface
to
people
who
are
used
to
running
on
vms
and
machines,
but
one
of
the
things
we
did
was
you
really
never
did
not
have
to
think
about
racking
and
stacking
and
where
the
rack
is
and
which
building
it's
in
anymore
and
in
some
ways
with
containers
they
sort
of
brought
that
back.
You
know
now,
every
you
know
if
you
use
kubernetes
as
an
example,
every
cluster
has
a
database.
A
So
if
you're
running
it
yourself,
you
really,
you
know
I
half
joke
and
say
the
eks
team
is
a
manager
fcd
as
a
service
team,
because
that's
a
big
part
of
what
they
do
is
running
all
these
hundreds
of
thousands
of
databases
and
I've
seen
what
I've
seen
companies
do.
You
know
there
was
this
vision
of
devops
at
some
point
of
time
where
the
developer
and
operator
boundary
would
just
disappear.
A
I
think
it's
a
reason
why
you
know
things
like
openshift
actually
is
popular
with
people,
because
it
makes
it
easy
to
do
that
for
a
lot
of
these
teams.
It
reduces
the
friction
and
I
think
everything
we
can
do
as
a
community
to
reduce
friction,
because,
right
now
the
is
for
large
enterprises
getting
to
that
place
where
they
have
a
good
platform
that
their
devs
can
use
is
pretty
hard.
I've
seen
people
try
for
two
years
and
literally
deploy
two
demo
applications
and
it's
a
challenge.
A
So
that's
one
of
the
reasons
we
built
proton
and
it's
still
early,
but
that
was
the
idea.
Was
it's
so
hard
for
people
to
adopt
not
just
kubernetes
but
ci,
cd
and
infrastructure
as
code
and
observability
and
name
it?
At
the
same
time,
we've
put.
We've
pushed
a
lot
of
decisions
on
them
with
like
15
000
different
options.
How
can
we
simplify
it
and
I
think
all
that
I've
already
started,
seeing
that
I
think
as
an
industry?
That's
where
we'll
probably
spend
our
time
over
the
next
two
to
three
or
four
years.
B
Yeah
well,
if
we
look
at
you
know
the
offering
we
have
of
openshift
on
aws
we've
got
an
sre
team.
There
you
know
part
of
our
value
proposition.
Is
we
don't
want
you
to
spend
too
much
time?
You
need
to
understand
how
to
build
on
that,
but
you
don't
need
to
manage
that.
That's
why
you
know
we
can
have
that
expertise.
Your
team
has
a
lot
of
solutions.
B
I
look
at
you
know
app
runner,
it's
you
know
in
the
name
of
the
product,
you
know
what
do
you
do
as
a
customer,
you
run
your
app
the
rest
of
it
underneath
you
know
the
infrastructure
should
be
taken
care
of
so
absolutely
a
trend.
You
know
that
we
see
how
has
you
know
deepak
how
we've
been
doing
as
a
partner.
It's
been.
You
know.
We
really
appreciate
the
partnership
with
aws.
B
A
A
I
think
that
had
probably
learned
a
lot
from
that
and
we've
learned
a
lot
from
how
your
customers
and
enterprises,
you
know,
think
about
running
applications
and
what
choices
they're
making
and
what's
important
to
them,
and
I
think
that,
as
both
companies
are
learning,
because
this
is
a
very
unique
partnership
that
we
have
at
red
hat
about
around
rosa.
How
do
you
fit
it
in?
I
think
I
won't
talk
about
roadmaps
here.
You
can
go.
A
B
A
We've
always
had
a
really
good
relationship
with
red
hat.
You
know
going
back
a
long
time
and
I
think
you
can
bring
in
the
ibm
side
of
it.
That's
also
improved
a
lot
over
the
last
few
years.
I
think
red
hat
joining
ibm
helped
a
lot
there,
and
I
know
that
bob
weiss,
who
runs
my
kubernetes
service
and
the
technical
team
at
red
hat
love
working
with
each
other
talk
to
each
other
all
the
time.
A
B
Absolutely
you
know
deepak,
it
was
funny
I
was
actually
at
re
invent
you
were
in
seattle,
so
it
was
great.
I
got
to
talk
to
some
customers.
I
met
with
some
of
the
you
know:
people
working
on
you
know
some
of
the
partnerships,
so
not
just
excitement,
but
I
mean
hundreds
of
customers
that
are
already
using
it
engaging.
B
I
tell
you
some
of
the
people
watching
this,
though
deepak
they're
checking
out
your
synths.
They
like
the
dark
side
of
the
moon
poster.
We
need
to
talk
about
something
else
in
your
background
there.
So
you
are,
you
know
a
an
avid
bird
photographer,
so
you
know
serious
camera.
I
know
you've
been
out
there.
I
believe
you've
had
you
got
your
son,
you
know
doing
some
of
it
too.
So
tell
us,
you
know
it's
funny
in
the
tech
industry.
B
Like
I
remember
the
first
time
I
became
a
manager
I
was
like.
I
don't
think
I
understand
this.
Everybody
that
reported
to
me
was
on
the
side,
doing
wedding
photography
or
they
all
had
their
dslr
cameras
and
everything
like
that.
So
the
the
venn
diagram
of
people
in
the
tech,
industry
and
people
that
are
avid
photographers,
you
know,
there's
absolutely
a
good
overlap.
So
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
your
bird
photography.
Yeah.
A
A
It
was
like
okay
time
to
get
a
long
lens,
and
it's
been
my
thing
I
like,
I
think
it's
I
like
being
out
in
nature
and
carrying
a
camera,
so
you
know
taking
pictures
of
birds,
I'm
getting
into
trees
and
woodlands
now,
and
you
know,
with
cameras
being
as
good
as
they
are
now.
It's
just
amazing.
It's
and
kovid
is
how
we
got
into
it
as
a
family.
A
You
know
at
that
time
my
son
was
seven,
he
likes
birds,
my
father
had
gotten
him
into
birds
as
well,
and
every
weekend
we
had
nothing
to
do
no
soccer,
no
activity,
we
so
we
still
got
gordon
the
wilderness
to
do
birding
and
he
got
into
bird
photography
along
the
way.
So
some
of
those
pictures
of
the
back
are
not
mine.
There
is,
and
it's
become
kind
of
the
thing
that
we
do
as
a
you
know
as
dad
and
kid
and
as
a
family
in
general,
and
you
know
I
was.
B
A
Change
has
made
the
world
a
really
weird
place,
which
is
sad,
but
you
know,
as
I
said
it,
washington's
a
great
place
for
birding,
especially
hawks,
and
you
know
owls
and
so
on.
So
we
we
get
out
there
pretty
much
every
weekend
and
have
for
the
past.
I
would
say
basically,
since
just
after
covert
started,
yeah.
B
A
Oh,
that's
the
big
thing
I
did.
Last
year
I
went
mirrorless.
I
have
an
r5
which
is
my
primary
birding
photographer.
I
also
carry
an
r6
as
my
second
body,
my
son
uses
an
r6
and
then
I
use
a
500
mm
lens
100
to
500,
because
the
big
giant
lenses
are
too
expensive
too
heavy.
I'm
not
that
good.
It's
not
my
job.
A
A
B
I
I
tell
ya,
I
you
know
am
not
an
avid
photographer.
I
appreciate
it,
it's
it's.
The
one
thing
that
drives
me
usually
to
the
next
generation
of
phone.
Is
you
know?
What's
really
nice
is
just
what's
in
the
you
know,
my
pocket?
I
can
do
things
I
I
got
actually
did
a
short
trip
over
the
holiday
break
to
iceland,
my
wife
and
myself,
and
I
got
some
decent
pictures
of
the
aurora
just
using
the
you
know
night
setting
on
my
iphone.
A
B
B
Yeah,
I
I
I
tell
you
deepak
one
of
my
back.
You
know
when
I
used
to
be
a
blogger
and
one
of
the
one
of
the
articles.
I
read
that
blew
my
mind
was
an
atlantic
article
from
I
believe
it
was
from
the
40s
and
it
was
someone
predicting
just
things
like
you
know,
cameras
and
phones,
and
all
this
thing
about
the
the
diffusion
of
technology
and
what
the
future
might
look
like.
So
you
know
you've
got
background
in
chemistry.
B
You,
like
photography,
you're
in
the
cloud
space,
anything
that
you
look
at
and
say
like
boy.
You
know
we're
in
such
a
you
know
an
amazing
time
in
technology
today,
but
you
know
just
wait.
You
know
five
years
from
now.
You
know
the
things
we'll
be
able
to
do
at
the
edge
where
I'm
not
just
you
know
having
a
super
computer
in
my
pocket,
but
you
know
what
might
I
be
able
to
do
and
anything
that's
got
you
pretty
excited
about.
You
know
the
forward-looking
activity
with
the
disclaimer
that
it's
not
necessarily
an
aws
roadmap.
B
A
Is
just
me
speaking,
I'm
actually
very
interested
in
what
you
can
do
with
devices
like
you
look
at
it's.
It's
both
you
to
be
careful
because
it
can
have
implications,
but
our
devices
are
getting
super
powerful
right
in
many
ways
our
people
have
all
kinds
of
computational
devices
in
their
home.
I
think
it's
one
of
the
reasons.
Actually,
I'm
very
excited
about
things
like
ecs
and
eks
anywhere.
You
know
just
from
the
aws
perspective,
because
I
think
it
does
speak
to
where
the
world
is
going.
A
A
A
running
computer,
it
rebooted
on
me
once
it
saw
the
scariest
experience
that
I
had
while
I
was
driving
shouldn't
happen
to
somebody
for
the
first
time
and
I
think,
as
you
have
these
very
powerful
clients,
but
you
also
need
to
build
these
machine
learning.
I
honestly
I
I've
most
of
my
career.
I've
been
a
machine
learning
skeptic.
A
I
think
over
the
last
three
years.
That's
changed.
I
think
our
our
accelerators
are
powerful
enough.
The
technology
has
come
away.
We
put
alpha
folds
a
great
example.
Somebody
had
told
me
that
you'd
be
able
to
build
something
like
this
10
years
ago.
I
have
told
you
to
go
climb
a
tree.
Clearly,
that's
not
true
anymore.
I
think
that's!
B
Yeah,
well,
I'm
glad,
as
you
said,
you
know,
the
relationship
isn't
just
what
we
do
on
the
open
shift,
but
on
the
linux
side
and
right
when
we
look
at
what
amazon's
doing
you
know,
call
it
hybrid
call
it
edge
those
type
of
things.
You
know
we're
trying
to
make
sure
that
our
software
is
going
to
be
able
to.
You
know,
work
in
all
of
the
places
that
you
live.
Not
just.
You
know
that
the
cloud
in
the
sky,
which
is
you
know,
made
up
of
linux
servers
right.
Yes,.
A
No,
it's
it's
a.
It
is
going
to
be
super
interesting.
I
think
that
is
a
big
change
if,
if
5g-
and
I
use
5g
as
a
general
term
for
broadband,
because
you've
got
things
like
starlink
and
kuiper
and
all
showing
up
now,
it
can
become
more
distributed,
as
opposed
to
these
big
pipes
that
we
need
between
data
centers.
B
All
right
so
last
thing
the
deepak,
of
course
you
know
the
requisite.
You
know.
If
people
want
to
know
more
about
your
team,
you
know
we
actually
we
put
up
in
the
chat
there
if
they
want
to
find
you
know
the
rosa
road
map.
You
know
we
gave
the
github
link
the
aws
you
know.
Container
roadmap
is
also
up
on
github.
People
want
to
find
your
photography
is,
is
instagram
the
best
place,
yeah
we're
really
the
best
places
to
find
all
your.
A
Yeah
the
guest
best
starting
plate
place
for
any
of
this
thing
is
just
go
to
my
website
deepaksing.net
and
from
there
you
can
find
everything
else,
it's
basically
just
actually
just
recently,
but
re-redid
it
over
the
holidays.
While
we
were
snowed
in,
I
couldn't
do
couldn't
go
out
much
so
go
to
the
boxing.net.
That's
the
best
place
to
start
and
from
there
you'll
go,
get
to
find
my
twitter
and
instagrams
and
everything
else
yeah,
and
you
know
I
said
it's
always
exciting-
to
talk
to
you.