►
Description
Chris Short, Principal Product Marketing Manager, OpenShift at Red Hat and CNCF Ambassador sits down with Staff Developer Advocate at Google, Kelsey Hightower to discuss Kubernetes. The conversation covers Kubernetes The Hard Way (which Kelsey created) and the rise of curated Kubernetes distributions like OpenShift and OKD.
A
Hello,
Cooper
News
community
welcome
back
to
open
chef,
Commons,
I'm,
Chris
short
principal
Technical,
Marketing
Manager
at
Red,
Hat
and
cloud
native
computing,
ambassador
I'm
honored,
to
be
your
host
today
today,
we're
joined
by
someone
who
I
look
up
to
as
a
guide
for
how
to
act
with
dating
the
dignity
and
respect.
Also
I
have
sought
out
career
advice
from
our
guests
today
and
so
far
they
haven't
steered
me
wrong.
So
thank
you
for
that
I'm
happy
to
be
joined
by
the
one
and
only
staff
developer
advocate
at
Google
Kelsey
Hightower.
A
B
Have
to
keep
it
short,
I'm,
a
technologist
at
heart,
various
HR
titles.
You
know
I've
done
really
well
at
Google
love
working
with
the
technologies
and
when
you
think
about
Kelsey
the
whole
person
there's
this
minimalist
behind
the
keyboard.
There's
this
vegetarian
there's
this
person
who
really
weighs
a
lot
in
financial
independence
and
I,
really
like
like
meeting
new
people
and
helping
them
be
a
better
person
and
hoping
that
they
help
me
do
the
same.
So.
A
That's,
that's
wonderful!
That's
that's
good
advice,
I!
Think
for
everyone
in
this
industry.
So
that's
why
I
often
listen
to
Kelsey.
So
you
do
a
lot
of
work
to
actually
help
others
in
the
community
and
you
put
it
out
there
for
everyone
to
use
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
larger
pieces
of
work,
I
discovered
early
on
was
kubernetes
the
hard
way
and
yeah.
That's
the
hard
way,
all
right.
B
At
least
I
have
to
go
re-evaluate
the
guide,
but
the
premise
behind
could
Bernays
the
Hardaway
was
really
trying
to
do
my
part
to
return
the
favor
to
all
the
other
people
who
have
written
blog
posts
and
books.
I,
consider
myself
self-taught
some
program,
self-taught
system
administrator
and
even
though
we
use
self-taught
to
get
started,
it's
the
people.
We
work
with
the
people
throughout
our
careers
that
help
us
be
better
and
along
the
way.
B
You
have
an
opportunity
to
share
what
you
know
and
I
do
that
through
various
mechanisms,
whether
that's
a
keynote
stage
or
podcast
like
this
one
but
ku
Bernays.
The
hard
way
is
where
I
said.
Let
me
just
sit
down
and
try
to
take
everything
that
I
know
about
kubernetes
and
put
it
in
a
guy.
That's
so
tedious
I
mean
so
laborious
that
when
you're
finished,
you
feel
like
you
accomplished
something,
and
in
truth
that
that
level
of
education
that
you
get
through
that
guide,
I
think
will
live
with
you
forever.
Yeah.
A
A
That
is
always
very
helpful,
but
the
the
I
think
you
know
you
mentioned
in
your
intro
that,
like
giving
back
in
the
receiving
back
where
you
like,
I'm
sure
when
you
sat
down
and
created
it
for
the
first
time
on
that
you
know
whatever
the
first
version
was
or
kubernetes,
there's
a
lot
of
missing
pieces
from
your
brain
that
were
missing
from
that
repository
as
well.
Like
did
you
see
a
lot
of
people
immediately
giving
back
or
did
it
take
some
time
I
mean
what
was
that
like
for
you
I.
B
Love
the
way
you
phrased
that
like
giving
back,
because
what
people
tend
to
do
an
open
source
and
since
they'll
open
these
issues
and
be
like
what
the
hell
are
you
talking
about?
That's
not
how
you
do
that
part,
but
for
the
majority
I
would
say
the
far
majority
there
are
people
saying,
hey.
I
understand
this
is
just
a
tutorial,
but
you
could
really
tighten
up
security
here
instead
of
using
one
SSL
certificate
for
all
the
components.
B
How
about
you
generate
one
certificate
per
component,
so
we
can
show
people,
that's
not
necessarily
the
best
practice,
even
though
it
could
lead
in
that
direction.
But
security
is
a
big
trade-off
so
that
they
can
learn
to
value
all
the
hard
work
that
goes
into
the
tools
that
try
to
do
the
right
thing.
Yeah.
A
That
is
a
weird
like
as
a
teaching
instrument.
I
know
that
over
the
years
like
various
you
know,
I
consider
myself
soft
self-taught
too,
but
over
the
years
I've
taken,
like
you,
know,
certain
courses
like
certification
classes
and
stuff,
like
that.
It's
always
interesting
to
me
to
find
that
very
thin
line
between
teaching
people
the
right
amount
of
security.
A
A
Ash
has
discovered
some
old
I
found
an
old
Raspberry
Pi
in
my
house
yesterday
that
have
been
running
for
400
days
and
there
had
been
automation
for
it
and
everything
I
could
have
been
running
it,
but
I
had
forgotten
about
it
for
400
days
at
least
so
yeah
like
going
back
and
having
to
figure
out
right.
Why
did
I
do
that?
Why
did
I
do
this?
Is
there
something
new
and
ansible
that
could
help
me
with
this?
A
That's
gonna
be
challenging
and
it
would
be
like
you
know,
going
back
to
years
and
time
and
knowing
that
amount
of
kubernetes
and
then
stepping
forward
now
to
you
know
one
seventeen
today
and
saying:
okay,
where
do
I,
you
know
fix
what
and
we're
kind
of
deal
so
yeah.
It's
it's
got
to
be
challenging
to
maintain
not
just
the
continuous
skill
set,
but
the
continuous
learning
like
how
do
you
keep
up.
B
To
date,
with
all
this
stuff,
well,
people
will
help
you
right.
So
a
big
part
of
learning
part
of
the
learning
process
is
putting
out
there
what
you
already
know
and
allowing
people
to
kind
of
nitpick
at
it
maybe
highlight
areas
where
you
have
gaps
and
a
lot
of
times.
Their
feedback
will
help.
You
fill
those
gaps
or
point
you
into
a
direction
right,
for
example,
on
kubernetes
the
hard
way
people
may
get
to
the
networking
component
and
say
I.
B
Don't
really
understand
this
whole
like
how
are
you
making
networking
work
without
having
weave
or
calico
nummies
yeah,
and
then
what
I
have
to
do
is
like
remind
myself,
okay,
l-3
networking.
How
do
I
get
this
down
into
one
and
two
seventies?
Where
I
could
you
know
maybe
answer
the
question
for
this
person,
but
then
it
also
says:
wow
yeah
I
am
not
answering
that
question
in
this
guide.
Maybe
I
should,
or
there
are
some
cases
where
I
say
man
I
can't
answer
this
question.
Let
me
go.
B
A
B
Yeah
baby,
if
you
knew
the
old
Kelsey
Hightower
right
there,
the
guy
growing
up
through
middle
school
I
mean
I,
would
consider
myself
a
cool
person.
You
know
I
cared
about
how
I
dressed
and
I
played
sports
I
played
three
sports.
I
was
more
into
athletics
and
just
like
the
social
aspects
of
life
and
I
really
enjoyed
that
part
of
my
life.
B
I
didn't
touch
really
a
computer
until
like
the
10th
grade,
I
wanted
it
I
didn't
even
think
about
any
of
this
stuff,
so
I
would
probably
say:
yeah
I
probably
would
help
put
together
some
furniture
here
and
there
I
probably
cared
about
video
games
like
Nintendo
was
my
thing:
I
could
remember
playing
tetrode
without
any
help
right
without
a
GamePro
magazine,
so
I'm
showing
my
age
here.
Gamepro
magazines
right.
B
A
B
Levels-
and
it
would
show
you
the
whole
world's
about
how
you
go
and
I
remember
just
playing
Metroid
I
was
like
you
know:
I'm,
not
gonna
use
any
of
those
I
just
want
to
explore
the
entire
space.
I
think
that
thought
process
that
willingness
to
kind
of
complete
something
is
when
I
find
very
useful
in
tech.
Today,
yeah.
A
That
would
be
super
useful,
especially
like
at
that
nano
scale
right
like
putting
a
guide
together
or
versus
what
8-bit
or
16-bit
video
game
completing
that
I
feel
like
is
similar
levels
of
effort,
especially
if
that
video
game
is
having
a
new
series
in
its
franchise.
Frequently,
let's
shift
gears
here:
let's
not
talk
about
old-school
games.
Let's
talk
about
current,
you
know,
kubernetes,
fun,
stuff
and
I'm
gonna
be
selfish
and
ask
you
know
Cabernets.
The
hard
way
is
great.
It's
awesome
as
far
as
like
teaching
people
kubernetes
internals.
A
What
is
your
opinion
of
things
like
ok,
d4
or
some
of
the
other
tools
that
are
like
out
of
the
box,
these,
like
full,
fledged
cloud
native
experiences
or
kubernetes
distributions
for
lack
of
a
better
term?
How
do
you
balance
the
the
two
right
as
far
as
like
effectiveness
and
teaching
them
versus
productivity,
right
like
where,
where
D
on
the
Kelsey
Hightower
spectrum,
do
you
see
both
sets
of
skills?
Being
you
know,
useful
I.
B
Will
probably
say
most
technology
in
my
life
I,
don't
know
how
it
works.
A
hundred
percent
mm-hmm
right,
like
I,
have
a
good
idea
how
my
cursor,
what
microwaves
work,
but
I
am
not
really
interested
in
studying
them.
I
could
put
things
in
there.
I
don't
blow
up
microwaves,
so
I
assume
I'm,
pretty
good
at
it,
and
I
think
for
the
things
that
are
core
to
me
like
I
work
at
Google,
Cloud
and
kubernetes
is
a
core
technology.
For
me.
B
It
had
my
personal
interest
before
joining
Google,
so
I
find
it
necessary
to
understand
how
it
actually
works
mm-hmm,
but
I.
Don't
expect
that
to
be
true
for
everyone
else.
I
expect
everyone
else
who
largely
looks
at
just
consuming
a
kubernetes
cluster
like
when
I
think
about
the
cloud.
For
example,
we
don't
ask
you
to
set
up
a
hypervisor
first
before
you
can
get
your
first
VM.
No,
that's
not
that's
not
the
contract,
that's
not
the
expectation!
No!
B
A
B
A
B
With
that
so
I
think
it's
always
worth
as
a
technologist,
especially
when
it's
in
your
field,
that
of
responsibility,
you
probably
want
to
know
how
it
works,
even
if
you
plan
to
use
a
tool
out
of
convenience,
because
you're
gonna
be
responsible
for
ultimately
troubleshooting
that
thing
in
production,
so
using
an
automation
tool
doesn't
absolve
you
from
the
ultimate
responsibility
of
your
applications
running
on
top
of
that.
No.
A
I,
don't
disagree
with
that
and
I
think
that's
smart,
but
I.
Think
I've
also
hit
this
weird
and
kind
of
like
technological
advancement
point
of
like
needing
a
not
growth
but
like
feature
change
at
a
velocity
that
I
don't
think
everyone
can
fully
embrace
the
entire
technological
stack
and
that's
why
you've
got
you
know
specializations
so,
but
even
something
like
load
balancing.
You
know
like
just
look
at
the
OSI
reference
model.
If
you
learned
all
the
IP
protocols
you
know
in
and
out
that
would
be
a
lifetime
of
knowledge.
A
A
B
B
You're
right
so
we're
already
in
that
world,
and
this
is
where
we
kind
of
rely
on
distributions
to
bring
in
the
right
components
and
pieces
we
need
so,
yes,
I
am
very
happy.
Finding
various
tools
for
installing
crazies
exists
because
you
got
to
remember
the
way
I
consume.
Corona
is
these
as
I
click
a
button
and
the
cluster
comes
up
about
five
minutes
and
then
off
I
go
yeah.
A
I
mean
there's
value
on
that
I
mean,
but
you
understand
like
underneath
the
hood
right
like
if
something
goes
wrong,
how
to
fix
it.
It's
that's.
There's
power
in
that
too,
and
I
think
you
can
do
both
right,
like
you,
can
have
that
distraught
of
the
box
and
have
it
kind
of
help
you
along
the
way
and
learn
how
it's
done,
but
make
sure
that
you
learn
the
things
they're
gonna
break
in
your
application.
First,
the
way
you're
using
it
hasn't
learned
those
things
before
you
deploy
that
and
then
like
grow.
B
B
To
learn
how
kubernetes
works,
you
can
do
it,
you
can
go
to
github.
You
can
ask
questions,
you
can
look
at
the
implementation,
that's
the
real
power.
I
think
you
know
not
necessarily
here
on
this
show,
but
in
general
people
tend
to
get
very
defensive
about
whether
you
should
be
learning
these
low-level
details
or
not,
but
that's
not
how
education
works
right.
B
Education
is
kind
of
this
thing
that
when
you
get
the
opportunity
to
learn
and
you're
not
prohibited
from
doing
it,
that's
the
power
of
Education
and
every
individual
has
to
decide
what
things
they
should
spend
their
time
getting
educated
on
and
traditionally
the
more
education
you
have
tends
to
work
out
in
your
favor.
That's.
A
Something
something
something
like
Mark
Twain
was
all
these
things
before
he
wrote
at
least
books
kind
of
deal.
That's
a
very
good
point.
But
what
do
you
see
you
know
in
that
kind
of
sense
right,
I
mean
how
do
you
see?
Organizations
like
yeah
I
think
you've
mentioned
this
before
we,
you
don't
want
to
see
people
lose
all
their
data
or
whatever?
How
do
you
see
organizations
using
kubernetes
right
now
in
a
way
that
maybe
isn't
the
most
beneficial
and
like
what
is
the
most
common?
A
One
of
the
hosts
like
throwing
everything
kubernetes
I
know,
is
something
that
we
I
personally
steer
people
away
from
doing
right.
If
you
have
stuff
that
works,
use
that
as
a
you
know,
kind
of
your
your
TrueNorth
and
make
sure
you,
you
know,
move
new
things
in
there
first
and
then
figure
out
how
to
get
your
money,
paying
things
kubernetes
our
organizational
importance,
things
in
kubernetes
as
necessary,
not
like
immediately
kind
of
thing.
What
do
you
think
organizations
are
doing
wrong
like
out
of
the
gate
with
kubernetes
I.
B
It's
more
about
a
lot
of
people
refuse
to
be
patient
with
the
system.
Lot
of
people
have
spent
like
years
with
Linux
before
they're
able
to
do
some
of
the
things
they're
doing
today,
and
people
still
struggle
with
Linux
mm-hmm.
When
it
comes
to
kubernetes
I,
see
enterprises
say
oh
I
heard
kubernetes
is
working
for
all
these
other
people.
Let's
just
do
it
too,
and
while
we're
at
it,
let's
refactor
all
of
our
apps
into
micro
servers,
micro
services,
you
know,
and
while
we're
at
that,
let's
go
ahead
and
bring
in
this
prometheus
thing.
A
B
It
as
well
and
now
we're
off
to
it.
That's
the
next
initiative
and
you're
sitting
back
like.
Why
would
you
try
to
take
on
all
of
that
at
one
time
when
you
just
got
done
telling
me
that
it's
hard
for
you
to
adopt
new
technologies,
it's
hard
for
you
to
patch
the
existing
systems
you
have.
Why
do
you
believe
now
that
you're
gonna
suddenly
find
all
this
extra
time,
bandwidth
and
skill
to
take
on
all
of
these
things
that
you've
never
done
before,
like
I
encourage
the
fact
that
people
are
open
to
new
ideas?
B
A
I
mean
what
and
it's
interesting
because
there's
all
these
new
technologies
now
like
I,
remember
in
the
nineties,
it
was
like
you're,
a
Microsoft
shop,
you're
a
leg
shop.
Maybe
you
were
both
if
you
were
lucky,
but
if,
if
someone
were
to
tell
me
back,
then
like
you're
gonna
adopt
seven
new
technologies
at
once,
I
would
laugh
him
out
of
my
office
or
wherever
I
was
working
at
the
time,
because
there
was
no
way
even
back
then
like
you
could
do
that.
I,
don't
know
why
people
think
we
could
do
it
now
with
more
stuff.
A
B
I,
don't
so
yeah,
just
as
my
view,
I,
don't
really
see
it
as
more
stuff,
because
all
the
stuff
that
I
see
right
now
really
rhymes
with
the
past
right.
So
maybe
people
aren't
repeating
themselves
by
building
a
new
version
of
Apache
mm-hmm,
but
there's
definitely
some
rhythm
in
the
fact
that
envoy
does
a
lot
of
things
that
nginx
or
Apache
used
to
do
with
a
different
configuration
language
or
a
different
assumption
that
everything
can
be
API
driven
versus
a
config
file.
So
what
I'm
seeing
is?
B
B
A
Interesting,
the
the
the
the
API
versus
the
config
file
and
how
that
all
the
new
things
that
are
coming
out
or
just
evolutions
based
off
the
time
they're
created.
It,
makes
me
wonder,
though,
how
long
that
can
keep
going
before
we've
just
got
this.
This
house
of
cards
of
abstraction
layers,
I'm
hopeful
that
that
doesn't
get
too
flaky
too
fast,
but.
A
B
So
now
curators
start
to
really
play
a
prominent
role
in
helping
people
make
decisions,
and
the
nice
thing
about
that.
You
may
make
decisions
based
on
sovereignty
where
your,
what
country,
you're
located
in
true
you
may
make
decisions
based
on
how
compatible
a
thing
is
what
your
thing
that
you
currently
have
and
just
like
in
music,
those
platforms
start
to
rise
up
and
say:
hey.
You
know
like
red
hat,
we'll
say
this
is
the
way
you.
B
B
A
A
B
You're
gonna
see
the
creativity
blow
up
because
we
were
only
getting
creativity
from
a
very
small
set
of
people
understood
all
of
this
stuff,
but
now
we're
saying
to
the
average
person
like
yo.
You
know
what
you
can
actually
start
with
the
kubernetes
api
and
build
any
system
that
you
can
imagine,
and
some
people
are
now
spitting
out
workflow
engines,
various
CI,
CD
solutions,
so.
B
Point
that
the
existing
encompass,
like
Jenkins,
write
the
kind
of
for
many
people
he's
considered
like
the
gold
standard
in
CI
CD.
Now
you
got
people
building
these
things
on
top
of
kubernetes,
giving
hints
on
how
jenkins
should
improve
and
jinkins
has
improved
by
learning
what
people
have
been
doing,
because
now
people
don't
have
to
start
from
scratch.
They
can
actually
leverage
the
system
like
kubernetes
and
innovate
in
ways.
That's
hard
to
do
when
you
have
to
start
from
Ground
Zero.
No.
A
100%
agree
right,
like
the
idea
of
creating
an
API
from
a
few
lines
of
code
is
amazing
to
me
right,
and
you
can
just
do
that
in
caride
is,
and
you
know
that
to
me
back
when
I
first
was
getting
into
tech,
you
know
like
hardcore,
it
was.
Oh
everything
is
going
to
be
API
driven
and
now
it's
just
API
out-of-the-box
kind
of
deal.
So
that's
pretty
fun.
A
B
So
the
backstory
there
for
those
listening
I
would
just
you
know
every
once
in
a
while
on
Twitter
I,
like
to
just
kind
of
give
my
thoughts
and
ideas
about
various
things
that
are
going
on
in
a
technology
landscape.
Now,
a
lot
of
times,
that's
associated
with
things
like
kubernetes
and
I've,
been
throwing
out
some
ideas
and
concepts
around
configuration
as
data
or
that
the
evolution
of
kubernetes.
B
If
it's
going
to
be
successful
like
like
mobile
devices
or
the
internet,
it's
gonna
have
to
disappear
and
give
rise
to
higher
level
platforms
that
people
can
use
and
at
some
point
you're
like
you
know
what
that's
enough
tweets.
If
anyone
has
a
dope
podcast
hit
me
up,
I'll
love
to
come
on
your
show,
and
you
forget
that
Twitter's,
like
broadcasting,
you
know
to
the
world
roughly
mm-hm.
A
B
You
end
up
checking
my
dm's
and
I
was
like
wow
there's
like
20
podcasts
I've
already
done,
ten
of
them,
yeah
and
I
got
about
ten
more
to
go,
but
what's
been
really
nice
about.
This
is
that
each
toast
brings
something
new
to
the
conversation
and
I'm
finding
new
ways
to
explain
similar
concepts
with
different
words
and
different
analogies,
but
I
think
the
variety
has
been
really
helpful
for
me
to
really
crystallize
these
ideas.
In
my
own
head.
A
That's
good
to
hear
the
the
idea
of
like
these
these
complex.
You
know
systems
being
explained
in
simple
phrases
like
that
is
something
that
I've
continually
struggled
with
and
I've
always
had
to
relate.
You
know
something
someone
has
known
with
this
thing:
I'm
trying
to
teach
to
them
and
and
that
I
think
it's
gonna
get
harder
and
harder
the
faster
we
build
on
some
of
these
things
and
those
abstractions.
You
know,
keep
going
and
it's
balanced
with
you.
A
It
was
easy,
you
know,
and
you
know
the
Windows
computer
was,
you
know
basically
the
first
computer
with
the
UI
that
was
graphical
kind
of
deal.
That
was
the
first
OS
kind
of
deal,
but
now
it's
you
know
everything
has
api's
everything's
gonna.
Have
you
know,
containers
so
I
think
it's.
It's
super
interesting
to
like
kind
of
have
two
flavor
eyes.
The
way
you
talk
to
certain
people
based
off
their
experiences
or
what
they
know,
or
you
know
how
to
explain
these
things.
A
B
So
I'm
gonna
go
listen,
backing
and
collect
them,
because
I
think
there's
a
few
I
used
today.
That
I
think
would
be
helpful
in
a
written
format
or
use
in
another
context
and
I
think
you
also
highlight
something.
That's
also
important.
A
lot
of
the
good
analogies
come
from
experience,
so
the
more
people
we
have
with
different
types
of
experiences
in
the
world
are
going
to
be
able
to
produce
analogies
that
no
one
else
could
think
of
and
I
think
that
is
the
key
to
helping
us
all
explain
these
complex
technologies.
A
Percent
agree
and
that's
the
beauty
of
it.
That's
that's
why
I
appreciate
open
source
is
because
I
remember
a
day
when
it
was
just
X
and
you
used
that
and
the
amount
of
creativity
that
was
possible
was
somewhat
limited,
and
now
it's
sky's
the
limit
almost
right
like
it's,
what
human
capacity
is
capable
of.
So
that's
that's.
Why
I'm
super
hopeful
for
the
future
at
the
very
least
so
Kelsey?
What
what
other
fun
things
are
you
working
on?
Is
there
any
cool
projects
you
want
to
shout
out
or
where
can
people
find
you?
The.
B
Coolest
things
I
think
I'm
working
on,
or
you
know,
there's
the
tech
side
and
there's
this
idea
that
we
could
make
more
and
more
things
have
this
serverless
feel
to
them,
meaning
they're
easy
to
operate.
The
infrastructure
disappears
and
gives
way
to
some
UI.
That's
purpose-built
for
the
task
at
hand,
there's
a
whole
collection
of
those
things
and
then
there's
the
apply
things
that
I'm
doing
in
the
real
world.
That
I
really
really
enjoy
a
lot.
For
example,
the
latest
example
this
weekend
my
wife
she's
a
vice
principal
at
the
middle
school.
B
B
Mmmn
turned
those
slides
into
a
template
with
placeholders
and
then
just
kind
of
create
one
on
the
fly
and
I
was
like
hey.
Let's
just
do
that
together.
So
me
and
my
wife
kind
of
sat
down
and
got
the
data
right
and
we
wrote
a
few
helper
functions
inside
of
the
spreadsheet.
So
we
can,
you
know,
format
the
kids
names
correctly
and
then
we
just
built
this
little
bit
of
glue
code
and
go
laying
and
then
we
ran
it
and
she
just
watched
all
of
the
things
just
could
created
one
by
one.
A
And
like
that's
that's
so
much
so
true
right,
like
technologies
is
here
to
help
people
not
to
like
make
people's
lives
harder
so
yeah,
like
that's
kind
of
why
I
got
into
it
in
the
beginning
with
and
like
that
right.
There
is
a
perfect
example.
I
remember
doing
stuff
like
that,
like
for
my
dad
right
when
I
was
growing
up
so
yeah,
that's
cool
man.
Anything
else
cool
like
that
going
on
I
mean
I
need
to
use
some
G
sweet
automation.
That
reminds
me
of
a
few
things.
I
mean.
B
There's
so
much
going
on,
but
you
know
I
think
the
gist
of
it.
Is
that
there's
an
opportunity
all
over
all
around
you
to
take
all
of
these
skills
that
we
geek
out
on
that
we've
been
investing
in
for
the
years
and
you
can
just
go
apply
it
to
new
and
interesting
problem,
domains
outside
of
the
little
bubble
that
you
live
in.
That's
a
great.