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Description
A Pragmatist's Guide to Wardley Mapping
Ben Mosior (Hired Thought)
July 24, 2020
OpenShift Commons Briefing
hosted by Diane Mueller (Red Hat)
In this briefing, Ben Moisor (Hired Thought) gives introduction of using Wardley Mapping to meet the specific challenges facing organizations.
A Wardley Map is a representation of the landscape in which a business (or anything, really) operates. It consists of a value chain (activities needed to fulfill user needs) graphed against evolution (a measure of how individual activities change over time under supply and demand competition). A map represents the shared assumptions being made about a context and hints at what strategic options are available. By developing a common language to describe a context, mapping improves communication, helps us more clearly express our intent, and invites the challenge necessary to make things better.
A
And
today
I'm
really
pleased
we're
going
to
have
a
great
talk
up,
hopefully
and
an
introduction
to
wardly
mapping,
which
I
think
everybody
has
heard
about,
but
not
everybody
has
used
and
we're
gonna
try
and
apply
it
to
a
few
things
that
are
near
and
dear
to
my
heart,
but
to
drive
us
through
this
conversation
and
to
challenge
us
a
little
bit.
I
think
ben
mosher
from
hired
thought
is
here
and
I'm
gonna,
let
him
introduce
himself
and
then
we're
going
to
fly
through
some
interesting
things.
A
It's
going
to
be
a
very
different
kind
of
briefing
and
if
you
see
in
the
chat
there'll
be
a
little
link
to
a
new
piece
of
software
for
all
of
us,
so
yeah.
It's
a
total
experiment.
Today
we're
going
to
try
using
miro
to
drive
this
conversation
as
well,
so
take
it
away.
Ben
explain,
explain
yourself,
introduce
yourself
and
let's
do
some
hand
waving
and
chatting
and
figure
this
forwardly
thing
out.
B
B
B
What
I'll
say
is
feel,
please
feel
welcome
to
add
your
questions
in
the
in
the
sort
of
like
a
section
up
here
with
all
the
sticky
notes,
we'll
kind
of
come
circle
back
around
and
find
time
to
answer
those
as
we
go
along
and
if,
in
worst
case
you
can
always
email
me,
and
we
can.
We
can
talk
about
that
later.
So
all
right,
maybe
it's
time
to
to
get
into
this
worldly
map
of
things,
so
I'm
gonna
go
straight
into
worthy
mapping.
B
So
the
person
on
the
left
is
a
gentleman
by
the
name
of
simon
morley.
My
friend
katz
hotel
says
that
simon
is
someone
who
lives
in
a
swamp
in
the
uk
kind
of
like
a
a
wizard,
and
he
made
this
interesting
kind
of
technique.
That's
creative
commons
and
that
we'll
talk
about
more
in
a
second
simon
is
supposedly
chaotic
evil,
whereas
I
I've
decided
this
morning
that
I'm
just
chaotic,
so
you
can
find
simon
on
twitter
at
swardly.
B
You
can
find
me
on
twitter
at
hired
thought
and
the
two
of
us
seem
to
care
a
lot
about
this
like
thing
called
strategy
and
and
maybe
to
sort
of
help
make
sense
of
who
we
are
and
where
we
are
like.
There
are
the
big
three,
the
big
strategy,
consulting
firms
right
and
on
this
two
by
two
of
kind
of
like
orthodox
ways
of
teaching
and
orthodox
ways
of
doing
like
thinking
about
strategy
diamond,
and
I
are
both
on
the
unorthodox
side
of
how
to
think
about
strategy.
B
Whereas
maybe
the
big
three
are
more
orthodox
and
in
terms
of
teaching
strategy,
I
tend
to
be
a
little
bit
more
unorthodox
and,
like
maybe
simon,
has
like
some
more
orthodox
ways
of
like
thinking
about
how
to
teach
in
particular
his
method.
Worldly
mapping
so
like,
and
just
to
be,
like
super
clear,
like
opposites
like
that,
are
not
like
good
and
bad
they're,
just
kind
of
like
different
dynamics
of
a
continuum
and
one
leads
to
the
other,
and
it's
just
an
interesting
kind
of
way
to
create
attention.
B
So
I
lean
more
towards
the
unorthodox
side
of
both
of
these
things
and
so
we'll
explore
what
that
means
a
little
bit
more,
so
the
the
orthodox
sort
of
approach
to
worthy
mapping,
so
the
standard
way
of
teaching
it
is
to
talk
about
the
the
strategy
cycle
and
the
strategy
cycle.
Is
this
like
five
phased
loop,
that
kind
of
maps
to
john
boyd's
uda?
I'm
not
gonna,
go
through
all
the
jargon
here.
B
B
So
basically
it's
understanding
things
and
then
taking
action
and
seeing
what
happens
and
repeating
that
cycle
in
worldly
mapping.
There
are
these
things
called
worldly
maps
and
it's
basically
a
diagram
that
describes
the
parts
of
the
system
how
they
relate
to
each
other.
And
then
what
makes
it
a
map
is
that
the
placement
of
those
parts
has
meaning.
B
So
in
particular,
what
we'll
talk
about
is
this
idea
called
evolution,
and
what
we'll
describe
is
how
from
left
to
right,
encodes,
different
ways
of
meaning
in
terms
of
how
evolved
the
things
in
our
organizations
and
our
markets,
and
sometimes
even
in
ourselves,
are
and
what
that
implies.
What
that
implies
that
we
should
do,
but
the
thing
that
that's
important
to
notice
is
that
this
whole
system
adds
up
to
something
that
produces
value
for
for
humans,
for
people
for
for
users
of
these
systems.
B
So
the
idea
is
we
anchor
our
position,
our
like
we
anchor
our
understanding
of
the
model
on
the
people
who
are
serving,
who
are
producing
value
for
and
if
you're,
following
along
inside
miro,
there's
this
lovely
link
to
a
talk
by
simon.
This
is
kind
of
like
the
the
fully
fledged
like
introduction.
If
you
want
the
the
full
worldly
experience
go
watch
this
talk
crossing
the
river
by
feeling
the
stones,
and
then
simon
has
also
written
a
free
book.
So
you
can
go
learn
about
mapping
that
way.
The
method
is
creative.
B
Commons
attribution
share
like
which
means
we
can
all
learn
it.
We
can
all
build
on
it
as
long
as
we
give
credit
where
it's
due
and
I
highly
encourage
you
go
through
that
kind
of
experience
of
learning
mapping.
But
today
I'm
going
to
do
the
unorthodox
version
of
this
kind
of
thing.
So,
let's,
let's
kind
of
dig
into
it
right
whenever
we're
working
together.
B
Some
littler
ideas
that
we
can
then
give
names
to
and
refer
to
and
make
sense
of.
And
and
what
happens.
Is
we
start
to
recognize
how
these
little
ideas
are
related
together
so
that
we
understand
how
an
intervention
in
one
little
idea
has
a
you
know.
Cascading
effect
on
several
other
little
ideas,
and
if
we
have
this
shared
language,
this
shared
vocabulary
for
making
sense
of
a
space,
then
chances
are
our
implicit
conflicts
will
turn
into
explicit
conflicts.
B
So
there's
this
weird
idea
from
chris
argiris
and
it's
discussed
in
the
the
fifth
discipline
field
book
by
peter
cenge
and
it's
this
idea
called
the
ladder
of
inference.
And
basically,
if
you
look
at
the
world
as
a
camera,
would
observe
it,
we
cannot
literally
select
enough
of
reality
to
make
sense
of
it.
B
Let's
do
it
a
little
bit
manually
a
little
bit
carefully
and
one
of
the
ways
I
like
to
talk
about
this
is
by
describing
the
the
romantic
and
classical
modes,
which
is
something
that
I
take
from
zen
and
the
art
of
motorcycle
maintenance.
It's
an
interesting
book
that
you
know
talks
about
these
two
ways
of
appreciating
reality:
the
romantic
mode,
which
is
like
appreciating
the
whole
of
reality.
B
In
all
these
different
ways,
we
actually
create
the
opportunity
for
a
new
understanding,
a
new
romantic
appreciation
of
the
whole,
and
so
we
create
parts
and
then
we
create
holes
and
we
create
parts
and
we
create
holes,
and
it's
this
back
and
forth
cycle
that
helps
us
create
new
kinds
of
meaning.
Okay.
So
what
does
all
this
have
to
do
with
worthy
mapping?
B
B
So
evolution
is
this
thing
that
simon
went
and
researched.
He
basically
studied
a
bunch
of
publications,
learned
how
people
talk
about
things
and
with
thousands
of
data
points
basically
put
together.
These
basic
patterns
and
the
basic
patterns
are
hey
everything,
evolves
under
supply
and
demand
competition,
and
as
they
evolve,
we
can
kind
of
identify
specific
stages
of
that
evolution
and,
depending
on
what
the
thing
is
that
we're
considering
so,
activities
are
like
what
we
do.
Practices
are,
how
we
do
it
and
so
on,
depending
on
which
stage
those
things
are
are
in.
B
We
can
give
them
different
labels
that
sort
of
match
those
stages.
So,
for
example,
practices
are
really
like
interesting
because
when
they
first
exist,
they're
novel
like
nobody's
ever
seen
them,
and
we
don't
even
know
if
they're
valuable,
but
as
they
start
to
have
known
value,
they
sort
of
shift
into
this
emerging
stage
stage.
B
And
so
the
basic
assertion
is
that
everything
is
evolving
in
these
ways,
and
so,
if
that's
true,
then
the
characteristics
of
those
things
are
changing
as
they
evolve
and,
like
I
love
this
table
because
it
is
so
overwhelming,
like
I
look
at
it
and
want
to
have
a
panic
attack,
but,
like
I
just
slow
down
right-
and
I
have
to
actually
like
see-
what's
what's
happening
here
so
like
we
can
zoom
in
right.
Okay,
there's
some
familiar
things
from
the
last
slide.
We
got
stage
one
two,
three
and
four
okay
activities,
data
practice,
knowledge.
B
That
was
something
we
just
talked
about.
Okay,
what
are
these
things
along
the
left-hand
side?
Okay,
these
are
characteristics,
interesting,
ubiquity,
certainty,
the
market,
user
perception,
and
I
see
how,
in
each
stage,
I
have
different
things
that
I
can
read
to
learn
about
how
those
characteristics
are
occurring.
I
think
my
favorite
personally
is
this
one
right
here:
failure
in
stage
one
failure
is
assumed,
like
it's
gonna
happen,
but
in
stage
four,
it's
exactly
the
opposite.
We're
surprised
by
failure
and
like
everything,
is
about
efficiency
and
efficacy.
B
So,
like
things
shouldn't
fail,
and
so
I
can
think
about
the
things
in
my
life
that
I
encounter
every
day
like
power,
the
fact
that
there's
a
wall
outlet
with
electricity.
I
kind
of
view
this
as
a
stage
four
thing,
because,
like
failure's
surprising,
it's
widespread
it's
commonly
under
understood
in
terms
of
use.
So
I
can
try
on
these
descriptions
of
the
characteristics
of
the
thing
to
see
where
power
fits
and
right
now
it
feels
like
it's
a
stage
four
thing:
it's
a
commodity
and
or
really
probably
a
utility
okay.
B
But
I
can
also
think
about
worldly
mapping
itself
right.
I
think
that
worthy
ending
feels
more
like
a
stage
two
activity:
it's
like
the
domain
of
experts
and
we're
trying
to
change
that
right.
We're
trying
to
make
it
more
accessible
by
having
calls
like
this
and
by
sharing
with
everyone-
and
there
are
lots
of
different
ways
of
thinking
about
like
how
it
can
fail
and
how
it's
a
found
value
and
how
we're
constantly
trying
to
make
it
better
and
how
it's
got
this.
B
I
asked
you
if
you
could
think
about
something
like
a
context
that
matters
to
you,
and
I
was
kind
of
wondering,
if,
like
we
could
do
like
a
quick,
really
really
high
level
map
of
a
space
and
so
like
what
did
you
think
of
when
I
asked
you
like
of
a
context
that
matters
to
you
like
what
kind
of
context
would
you
like
to
talk
about?
Well,
this
is
actually.
B
A
And
let
me
explain
what
I
mean
like
so
I
work
in
different
open
source
communities,
the
openshift
world
and
okd
is
the
open
source
side
of
that
and
we've
just
done
a
ga
release
of
that
and
for
one
of
the
things
that
I
was
trying
to
tease
out.
Is
this
idea
of
usually
when
simon's
talking
about
this?
He
needs
an
anchor
right.
A
So
for
me,
the
anchor
is
the
community
are
the
customers
that
are
in
the
community,
so
who
is
the
anchor
for
us
and
so
the
anc
trying
to
determine
that
so
teasing?
That
out,
is
that
the
anchor
you
would
in
a
production
world
you'd
say
those
are
the
customers
or,
I
would
say,
for
in
our
world.
It
is
the
end
users
of
of
the
of
okd
or
of
kubernetes
or
openshift,
or
what
did
it
whatever?
It
is
so
figuring
out.
A
Who
is
the
anchor
here
because
one
of
the
things
that
gets
confused
in
community
development
a
lot
are
the
end
users
versus
the
contributors,
people
who
are
the
engineers
and
the
documentation,
people
and
the
trainers
and
all
the
contributors
to
the
community
and
then
there's
another
whole
level.
On
top
of
that
which
are
the
people
who
build
things
that
run
on
it,
so
integrate
integrators
people
who
add
things
which
we
would
call
partners
that
maybe
create
an
operator
that
runs
and
adds
a
service
to
okd.
A
So
there
is,
you
know,
there's
a
whole
lot
of
people,
so
maybe
the
thing
to
map
here
is
trying
to,
and
I'm
not
sure
this
is
a
great
thing
to
map.
But
it's
what
I'm
going
for
and
maybe
we'll
tease
out
what
the
problem
is
from
that
the
operators
of
clouds.
So
google
would
be
someone
azure.
You
know
those
those
communities
of
people
too,
so
there's
partners,
cloud
hosts
and
all
of
those
kind
of
people.
So.
B
Awesome
that
sounds
like
a
a
wonderful
place
to
start
like
we,
we,
like
that's
really
one
of
the
first
questions.
Most
of
the
time
in
mapping
is
like
who
are
we?
Who,
who
are
we
serving
or
who?
Who
are
we
most
concerned
about
right
now
that
we
want
to
understand
their
needs
the
most
or
understand
the
system
that
fulfills
their
needs?
The
most?
So
would
you
like
to
do
the
operators
is
that
right.
A
In
my
humble
opinion,
they're
they're,
like
they're,
google,
their
azure,
their
aws,
their
ibm
cloud
their
and
then
there
are
people
who
and
then
there
are
all
there's
another
whole
category
of
people
who
are
running
on
prem
kind
of
too
so,
but
it's
it's
kind
of
where
it's
also
the
answer
to
the
question:
where
are
end
users
using
our
thing
right
in
this
case,
okd
or
openshift
right
so
they're,
using
it
on-prem
as
well
as
on
bare
metal
and
stuff
like
that.
But
there
are
some
of
the
cloud.
A
Operators
are
people
who
are
in
our
community
that
we
have
to
engage
with.
So
that's
one.
One
thing
to
tease
out
the
other
thing
is
most
of
those
operators
are
not
currently
contributing
in
a
real
way
back
to
the
project.
We
just.
We
just
need
them
involved
so
that
when
we
want
to
go
and
test
on
their
thing,
we
need
a
connection
to
them.
So
we
need
a.
B
A
B
B
Yeah
so
so,
let's
start,
let's
start
with
like
a
really
high
level
version
of
this
and
like
my
goal,
is
going
to
be
in
the
next
couple
minutes
for
us
to
make
a
map
with
like
only
five
parts
and
like
this
is
totally
ridiculous
right.
But
but
it's
to
prove
a
point
that,
like
you,
can
always
go
deeper
and
like
the
something
I
was
thinking
about
this
morning,
is
like
the
there's
like
a
really
problematic
way
to
start,
which
is
like
you
go
too
wide
and
you
get
too
detailed
and
you
get
overwhelmed.
B
Okay,
cool
excellent,
so
yeah,
like
we
just
had
this
awesome
moment
where
we
we
actually
got
to
like
create
a
shared
language
where
we're
like.
Are
we
going
to
call
them
operators?
No
we're
going
to
call
them
cloud
hosts,
because
that
reduces
the
ambiguity
so
like
we
could
have
made
a
ton
of
decisions
without
like
without
knowing
that
this
was
an
important
sort
of
bit
of
terminology
to
adjust.
B
B
A
They
want
people
to
deploy
stuff
on
their
clouds
that
cause,
you
know,
creates
revenue
for
them.
You
know
research
consumption.
Is
that
a
good
phrase
for
that?
Do
you
think
yeah,
I
think
so
yeah,
because
they
make
that's
where
they'll
make
their
revenue
from,
and
so,
okay,
okay
or
openshift
or
kubernetes,
or
running
kubernetes
on
a
cloud
host
or
of
that
gives
people
gives
end
users
reasons
to
use
a
cloud
host.
B
A
B
A
So
I
I
think
the
other
thing
is
then
they
can
upsell
them
other
services.
So
if
you
think
of
like
google
cloud
has
a
lot
of
addition,
you
know
data
different
specific
data
storages
that
they
think
are
better
than
like
the
generic
ones
that
come
with.
You
know
other
things,
so
they
they
will
upsell
their
other
sort.
Other
services.
B
A
B
Yeah
and
the
upselling,
like
I
kind
of
have
like
so
resource
consumption,
I'm
thinking
like
okay,
someone's
getting
api
keys
and
they're
like
spinning
up
instances
of
things
and
service
enablement
is
like
okay.
They
have
a
particular
use
case
like
they,
they
want
to
run
openshift
or
they
want
to
run
like
kubernetes
or
whatever
like,
and
then
upselling,
though,
like
what
does
that
work?
Look
like?
Is
that
like
sales
people
on
calls
or.
A
You
know
that,
that's
that's,
I
think
you
know
where
it
would
be
lovely
to
have
like
five
other
people
here
doing
this
with
me,
because
I
think
I
think
of
it
as
so.
Every
cloud
host,
in
my
mind,
has
a
value-add.
It's
something
they
think
about
as
specialism.
Maybe
it's
they
have
more
regions
than
you
know
like
that.
You
know,
aws
has
has
server
farms,
you
know
all
over
the
world,
but
maybe
someone
has
one.
That's
specifically
tuned
for
machine
learning
and
ai.
B
B
They
sell
yeah
and
like
what
I'm
doing
right
now
is
kind
of
I'm
prioritizing
capturing
the
words
that
are
coming
out
of
out
of
your
head.
In
order
to
that,
like
it
one
of
the
ways
people
get
stuck
with
worldly
mapping
is
like
am,
I
am,
I
writing
down
the
right
thing.
Yeah
and
the
answer
is,
don't
worry
about
it.
B
Don't
worry
about
it
yet
because,
like
the
important
thing
is
to
capture
a
handle
so
a
word
or
set
of
or
a
phrase
that,
like
captures,
an
entry
point
to
a
whole
phenomena
or
a
whole
phenomenon
that,
like
you,
can
then
go
talk
about
more
and
you
can
refine
it
and
like
make
it
more
clear
and
more
specific
and
get
it
into
the
worldly
frame
or
whatever,
but
just
get
the
words
onto
paper.
Okay,
let's
find
one
more
thing.
B
B
A
What
I
want
is
to
make
the
cloud
house
feel
like
they
should
contribute
to
the
community.
They
should
not
just
contribute,
but
they
should
participate
in
the
community
and
and
the
the
reason
for
that
is
that
people
will
use
their
services
and
what
I
need
from
them
is
to
make
sure
that
the
people
who
are
contributors
and
testers
on
in
in
our
community
have
access
to
the
right
images
on
their
cloud.
A
Hosts
that
you
know
if
it's
okd,
you
know
the
fedora
chorus
images
are
there
to
be
more
technical
or
if
it's
open
shift,
then
the
real
images
are
there,
like
all
the
right
bits
and
pieces
there.
So
there's
things
that
we
need
from
whether
it's
product
or
community.
We
need
the
cloud
host
to
do
with
us
exercise
with
you
know
with
the
contributors
we
need
them
most.
A
B
B
A
B
One
of
the
things
that
can
get
like
newbies,
really
stuck
when
it
comes
to
worthy
mapping,
is
trying
to
fiddle
with
all
the
relationships,
and
so
one
of
one
of
the
things
you
can
do
just
as
a
cheat
to
sort
of
get
through
the
process
once
and
then
so
you
can
make
it
better
later,
is
to
forgo
defining
relationships.
Now,
in
worldly
mapping,
relationships
are
about
dependency.
So
what
depends
on
what
else?
So
you
could
argue
that
cloud
hosts
depend
on
upselling
right.
B
They
want
revenue
and
the
way
that
upselling
exists
is
through
like
service
enablement,
so
fulfilling
value
for
customers
and
then
service
enablement
depends
on
things
like
scaling
or
resource
service.
Enablement
depends
on
resource
consumption.
You
could
draw
a
bunch
of
dependency
like
sort
of
relationships
between
these
parts
and,
like
that's
super
valuable.
You
should
definitely
do
that.
In
fact,
knowing
those
dependencies
can
make
you
aware
of
certain
strategic
options
that
are
available,
but
for
now
we
just
want
to
get
through
draft
zero.
B
So
what
what
I
want
to
point
at
too
is
that
each
one
of
these
things
that
we've
listed
could
be
a
whole
set
of
maps
unto
themselves.
So
we
can.
We
can
make
a
whole
set
of
maps
around
end
user
brand
awareness
like
we
could
talk
about
content.
Writing.
We
could
talk
about
twitter.
We
could
talk
about
just
like
google
like
seo,
for
for
like
different
kinds
of
support
topics.
B
We
could
talk
about
support
and
customer
service,
and
things
like
that,
like
there's,
so
many
different
activities
that
could
fit
underneath
here,
we
could
talk
about
having
folks
attend
transformation,
fridays,
hey
and
talk
it
with
with
you
and
like
there's
so
many
things
that
could
fit
inside
here.
That
could
be
their
own
map
right
or
we
could
zoom
all
the
way
out
and
make
a
map
where
all
this
stuff
fits
under
one
as
one
component
like
it's
just
one
thing
on
somebody
else's
big
map,
so
I
just
want
to
point
at
that.
B
B
B
So
if
we,
if
we
scroll
up,
I
tried
to
keep
things
pretty
like
easy
to
find
and
we're
gonna
there's.
There
are
two
ways
to
go
about
like
putting
things
along
the
evolutionary
axis
and
worthy
mapping,
and
one
way
is
like
really
deep
and
really
slow
and
the
other
way
is
like,
let's
just
get
it
on
the
board
and
see
what
happens
so
we're
gonna.
Do
that
way
to
get
it
on
the
board
and
see
what
happens
and
so
diane.
B
If
you
can
go
up
here
and
reference
this
table
right
here,
the
everything
evolves
under
supply
and
demand
competition
and
just
think
about
these
labels,
so
genesis,
custom,
product,
commodity,
novel,
emerging,
good
and
best
just
try
these
on
for
each
of
these
stickies
and
take
like
a
guess
of
just
a
first
gut
feeling
guess
about
which
stage
it's
in.
We
can
always
go
read
and
do
research
to
like
confirm
our
assumptions
here,
but
we're
just
trying
to
get
the
parts
on
the
board.
B
A
B
A
A
A
B
A
So
in
service
enablement
I
would
put
again
in
in
two
and
again,
everybody
said
no
one
screams
at
me
later.
This
is
about
okay
d4,
which,
if
you
go
to
okd
dot
io,
you
will
find
out
that
it
was
just
released.
You
know
two
weeks
ago
for
ga
use.
So
that's
why
this
is.
Is
this
this?
I
have
to
say
this.
Otherwise,
someone
somewhere
will
come
back
and
go
all
right.
B
B
A
So,
that's,
I
would
say,
that's
still
in
genesis,
we're
still
doing
outreach
to
all
of
them.
The
fedora
core
os
communities,
resource
consumption
we
this
is.
This
is
a
tough
one
because-
and
I
would
say
this
is
still
a-
this
is
a
two
we're.
Not
nothing
here
is
a
utility.
Yet
yet,
maybe
maybe
in
another
month
it
would
be,
but
we
need
all
of
these
other
things
to
happen.
A
B
A
A
Stuff,
you
know,
I
don't
think
end.
Users
really
know
that.
Yes,
I
would
guess
for
cloud
host
right
now.
This
might
be
the
state
of
the
union
or
there
and
upselling
is
a
real,
difficult
topic,
because
okd
is
the
free,
open
source
version
of
openshift,
and
so
there
there's
a
conflict
there
that
we
can.
B
A
B
And
awesome,
so
I
just
like
threw
a
comment
on
there
because
that's
like
that's
like
a
whole
conversation
we
could
have
and
what's
funny
is
like.
I
know
basically
nothing
about
this
space
right.
I
think
I
used
to
be
a
systems
administrator,
but
I
have
not
kubernetes
anything
other
than
like
local
docker
stuff.
Sometimes,
but
like
I,
I
know
basically
nothing
but
you
and
I
just
created
a
vocabulary,
and
we
we
put
our
assumptions
on
the
board
and
we
defined
like
at
least
two
conversations
that
need
to
happen
right
now.
B
One
is
okay:
what
is
with
this
gap
between
the
way
that
okd
is
treating
resource
consumption
and
the
way
that
resource
consumption
is
expected
in
terms
of
the
cloud
hosts
and
then
second
you're,
like
there's
this
conflict
here
right,
we
like
there
are
ways
that
open
source
can
make
a
ton
of
sense
as
a
way
that
enables
product
sort
of
plays,
but
like
right.
Now
it's
just
a
conflict
and
so
like.
B
B
The
mapping
before
you're,
probably
confused
about
what's
going
on
with
the
y-axis
here
and
what
I'll
say
is
like
first
of
all
in
in
this
minimum
viable
map,
the
y-axis
has
no
meaning
we're
not
doing
we're
just
doing
a
basic
sorting
where
left
right
has
meaning
but
not
up
down.
The
second
thing
is
the
y-axis
is
a
lie,
and
if
you
see
me
after
class,
so
we'll
talk
about
that,
but
like
what.
A
We've
done
what
one
word
about
the
upselling:
the
reason
that
the
way
that
I
mostly
resolve
it
is
is
that
the
open
source
side
of
okay
of
openshift,
which
is
okd,
is
the
pipeline
for
product
sales.
So,
once
people
get
used
to
it,
they're
running
it
on
an
open
source
and
they
want
support.
They
want
all
of
the
other
value-add
speech
things.
The
way
that
I,
as
a
community
person,
hopefully
make
the
account
managers
and
sales
people
happy
is
that
by
people
using
okd.
A
B
That's
a
really
awesome
point,
because
it
also
makes
me
think
about
this
brand
awareness
and
community
patient
thing,
which
I
think
you
were
you
when
we
first
wrote
this.
We
were
talking
about
cloud
hosts,
but
it
makes
me
think
of
a
whole
other
set
of
things,
which
is
how
how
do
you
make
sure
that,
when
someone
downloads
the
open
source
project,
they
become
immediately
aware
that
if
they
need
help,
they
can
go,
get
it
and
like
it
that
that's
a
whole
brand
awareness
thing
of
its
own.
B
B
You
can
go
down
and
read
more
about
them
here,
but
if
you
did,
if
you
hadn't
found
opportunities
already
discussions
to
have
actions
to
take
etc
by
going
through
the
map
and
just
having
discussions
around
it,
you
could
then
go
through
each
item
in
a
map
and
prompt
it
with
these
kinds
of
questions
like,
for
example
like
are
we
treating
this
part
of
our
map
differently
than
the
rest
of
the
world,
and
if
so,
is
that
good
or
bad?
Is
that
a
valuable
thing
for
us
to
do
or
is
it
a
waste
like
is?
B
So
that's
my
little
rant
about
strategy
now
the
reason
I
think
diane
that
you
wanted
me
to
talk
about
worthy
mapping
at
all
was
so
we
could
make
sense
of
a
technological
ecosystem,
and
so
I
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
time
to
talk
about
that.
I
also
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
time
to
sort
of
get
any
questions
sort
of
answered.
If
there
are
any
doesn't
look
like
there
are.
A
I
wrote:
no,
you
didn't
try,
so
let
me
let
me
set
the
stage
of
why
I
asked
and
if
you
zoom
in
on
that
diagram
there
that
you're
trying
to
do,
and
so
if
anyone
hasn't
looked
at
the
landscape
diagram
for
the
cncf,
which
is
the
cloud
native
computing
foundation,
which
is
what
kubernetes
and
openshift
and
red
hat,
as
you
know,
are
participants
in
this
landscape
and
there's
different
ways
to
view
this.
This
is
an
interactive
site.
You
can
go
to
io
landscape.cncf.io,
you
can
see
it
and
and
yeah.
A
A
A
Just
making
sense
of
this
and
all
the
relationships
is
basically
my
job
and
making
sure
that
if
there's
a
feature,
I
need
for
okd
that
fedora
and
fedora
is
not
even
on
this
map.
It's
just
crazy
one
of
the
problems
about
this
or
not
the
problems,
things
that
things
like
technical
oversight
committees
have
to
decide
is
who
gets
added
into
this
diagram.
B
A
A
That's
going
to
disrupt
it
that
we
should
be
aware
of.
Where
are
the
disruptors,
the
new
things,
and
when
things
need
to
be
like,
I
say
it,
retired
right,
there's,
no
longer
a
need
for
it.
Something
new
has
come
out.
So
is
there
a
possibility
of
retiring
something
from
this?
So
there's
lots
of
things
that
that
we
and
so
and
there's
so
many
things
in
here.
It's
hard
to
figure
out
what
to
pay
attention
to.
B
It
basically
means
that
it's
so
big
that
there-
and
there
are
so
many
like
individual
parts
that
like
are
all
coming
together
to
create
these
emerging,
like
behaviors
of
like
what
partnerships
are
occurring.
What
integrations
are
happening
which
startups
are
like
existing
all
of
a
sudden
and
which
ones
are
not
existing
all
of
a
sudden.
B
This
big
messy
like
emergent
and
tangled
thing,
and
why
I
would
consider
paying
attention
to
like
using
a
model,
in
particular
like
worldly
mapping
model,
is
the
evolution
part
of
this?
The
evolution
part
of
this
and
the
anticipation
part
of
this
so
so
evolution
is
fun
because
it
tells
you,
or
at
least
gives
you
the
opportunity
to
sort
of
like
guess
what
the
characteristics
of
each
of
these
little
logos
are,
and
if
you
really
want
to
understand
each
of
the
logos
you
can,
you
can
dig
in,
you
can
go
read
the
press
releases.
B
There
are
high,
there's
a
hierarchy
and
like
some
like
I,
there
was
like
app
development,
app
definition
and
development,
for
example,
or
or
monitoring
an
observability,
or
something
like
that
right.
So
I
was
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
parts
were
and
what
I
ended
up
realizing
is
that
the
categories
weren't
like
the
right
ontology
for
me
to
use
to
make
sense
of
things.
B
The
words
that
they're
using
to
describe
those
things
and
when,
when
you
get,
though,
like
a
space
like
this,
when
you
get
a
couple
of
those
things
on
a
map,
suddenly
you're
like
you,
find
that
you're
asserting
certain
things
about
the
qualities
that
they
have.
So
if
I
say
that,
like
monitoring
is
stage
four,
then
I'm
asserting
that
it's
an
established
thing
in
the
ecosystem
that,
like
it's
ubiquitous
like
that's
what
that's?
What
a
stage
four
thing
is:
it's
ubiquitous.
A
Yeah,
so
I
would
say
the
projects
around
that
monitoring-
and
this
is
again,
everybody
is
listing-
diane's
opinion
prometheus
grafana,
those
are
pretty
stable,
mature
and
and
that
those
would
be
the
things
that
I
would
think
would
be
graduated
projects.
So
you
can
actually
filter
on
that
landscape
diagram
and
pick
all
those
graduated
things
and
those
for
the
most
part.
Maybe
I
wouldn't
say
they
were
utilities
yet,
but
they
would,
at
the
very
least,
be
in
stage
three.
You
know
yeah,
and
some
of
them
would
be
on
stage
from.
A
Somewhere
there
yeah
yeah,
we
can-
and
people
would
debate
me
with
this
on
different
things
and
then
so.
The
things
that
are
interesting
to
me
are,
you
know,
in
terms
of
the
hockey
puck
conversation.
What
is
the
disrupter?
What
are
the
new
things
that
have
just
come
in
like
the
operator
framework
is
new,
and
so
that's
a
new
thing
here.
The
operator
framework
is
very
new.
A
A
A
B
B
A
B
A
B
And
one
of
the
values
of
of
having
an
artifact
to
look
at
like
even
even
this
right,
like
so
like
having
a
bunch
of
logos
to
look
at
at
least
lets
us
agree
on
what
the
things
are
and
when
we
start
to
add
something
like
worthy
mapping
where
position
has
meaning
really
the
left
rightness
actually
like
means
something
and
like
it
says,
a
lot
about
our
assumptions
about
it.
What
will
start
to
happen
is
like
we'll
have
conflicts
over
like
hey.
I
think
it's
a
stage,
one.
No,
it's
in
stage
four.
B
What
are
you
talking
about
and
like
that's
that's
the
whole
point
is
we
can
we
can
argue
about
the
artifact
like
I
don't
have
to
attack
you?
I
don't
have
to
say
diane.
Your
ideas
are
bad
like
no
like
each
of
us
has
this
like
awesome
expertise
and
it's
the
value
of
all
of
our
perspectives
in
the
room,
collaborating
on
this
artifact
to
like
get
our
assumptions
on
the
table
and
to
actually
have
nuanced
discussions
about
the
thing
in
order
to
like
have
productive
conflict,
as
opposed
to
like
problematic
conflict.
B
This
is
like
a
specific
instance
of
a
broader
thing,
and
what
is
that
broader
thing
made
of
and
like
then
you'll
start
to
realize
that
that
broader
thing
has
components
in
genesis
in
stage
one
and
components
and
commodity
in
stage
four
and
like
there's
a
disposition
across
the
entire
evolutionary
spectrum
that
all
adds
up
to
like
some
position.
Maybe
but
like
we
can't
have
a
nuanced
discussion
about
it
until
we
actually
know
what
those
parts
are
and
then
recognize
that
oh,
this
is
it's
messy
under
here
and
actually
that's.
Okay,.
A
B
A
A
I
use
network
analysis
of
who's
contributing
to
which
projects
to
see.
I
have
this
wonderful
diagram.
It
looks
like
a
jelly,
a
whole
bunch
of
jellyfish
and
each
of
the
jellyfish
have
tentacles
that
are
attached
to
each
other
so
like
when
someone's
working
in
operator
framework
and
they're,
also
working
in
kubernetes
and
they're,
also
working
in
film.
All
of
those
three
jellyfish
at
least
have
one
tentacle
attached
to
each
other,
and
I
can
watch
with
these
diagrams
how
people
migrate
from
one
project
to
another.
A
So
it's
almost
like
the
engineers
and
the
participants
in
the
communities
are
telling
me
when
they're
leaving
the
technology
and
going
to
a
new
one
right-
and
this
is
this-
is
key
for
a
lot
of
things
it's
like.
Then,
we
need
to
if
it
is
like,
maybe
it's
etcd
or
or
something
it's
not.
So
nobody
worry
about
these
things.
I
keep
saying
this.
A
B
A
And
make
sure
we
pay
people
to
stay
working
on
it
right.
You
know
sort
of
like
linux
or
something
like
that.
You
need
to
make
have
a
stable
of
engineers
who
are
always
making
sure
that
it's
secure
and
growing,
even
though
it
may
not
be-
and
someone
will
slide
me
for
this-
the
sexy
thing
of
the
week.
It's
not
kubernetes.
A
To
work
on
kubernetes
right,
so
you
know,
though
that's
what
the
network
diagram
does
for
me.
It
shows
me
when
projects
are
being
abandoned
or
when
engineers
are
putting
their
focus
on
service,
serverless
or
k-native,
or
something
else
so,
and
somebody
just
gave
a
good
pioneers
conversation
yeah,
pioneers,
giving
way
to
settlers
that's
a
very
good
way
of
putting
it
and
we
have
to
make
sure
that
settlers
stay
in
that
project.
A
B
So
compute
is
a
classic
example
that
that
simon
wardley
talks
about
it's
like
compute
as
what
the
first
computers
that
were
invented
in
in
germany
or
whatever,
like.
Okay,
that's
and
those
computers
were
the
instance
like.
Maybe
an
abacus
was
a
computer,
it's
something
like
in
one
frame
of
it
right,
not
many
people
are
using
abacus's
abacai.
I
don't
know
to
do
compute
computation
right
now
and
instead,
we've
got
serverless
so
like
there's,
there's
an
evolution
and
a
sort
of
like
the
general
concept
continues.
B
If
it's
a
useful,
broad
concept,
but
the
specific
instances
might
go
away,
and
so
it's
it's
useful
to
kind
of
like
pay
attention
to
that
dynamic.
But
the
other
thing
to
notice
is
that
in
general,
if
something
is
shifting
from
stage
three
into
stage
four,
the
implication
is
that
there's
going
to
be
a
giant
death
event
and-
and
what
I
mean
by
that
is
when
you
shift
from
stage
three
where
there,
basically
the
the
nature
of
the
way
stage
three
behaves,
is
there's
a
lot
of
money
to
be
made.
There's
a
like
you.
B
The
way
that,
like
where
custom
is
like?
Okay,
you
have
to
custom,
implement
a
thing
everywhere,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
money
to
be
made
because
of
that,
because
everyone
wants
one
and
they
can't
get
one.
So
you
have
to
custom,
build
it
in
stage
three:
it's
you
you're,
starting
to
operationalize
the
production
of
the
thing
you're,
starting
to
like
repeatedly
manufacture
the
same
form
of
value
and
be
able
to
deploy
that
repeatedly,
and
so
everybody
wants
one,
and
so
everyone
can
get
one
because
they
can
buy
one.
B
B
So
there's
there's
like
that.
That
moment,
when
you
realize
that
there's
a
consolidation
event
and
so
to
the
extent
you
can
be
sensitized
to
that,
like
it'll
help,
you
anticipate
when
that's
starting
to
happen,
and
I
love
how
you're
talking
about
sensing
this
by
paying
attention
to
engineer,
project
migration.
B
It
reminds
me
so
much
of
like
there
was
there's
a
practice
of
like
how
do
you
know
if
if
companies
are
doing
murders
and
acquisitions
in
like
the
80s
and
90s,
you
pay
attention
to
flight
numbers
and
which
executives
are
getting
who
in
which
private
jets
are
going
to
which
cities
at
which
times
like,
and
that
you
just
mind
that
information
and
pay
attention
to
it,
and
eventually
you
start
to
go.
Oh
these
two
companies
are
talking
to
each
other
a
lot.
B
B
A
I
would
need
a
speaker
who
knew
for
a
community
event
who
knew
both
zipkin
and
jaeger
and
open
tracing,
and
you
know
trying
to
get
a
feel
for
who
was
in
the
community
and
that
triggered.
Oh,
I
can
see
some
migration
from
the
zipkin
community
to
jaeger
and
oh
look
at
this
guy
yuri
who's
at
uber,
and
this
was
all
pre
cncf
donation
by
uber
of
jaeger
to
the
cncf
as
a
project,
so
it's
like
and
that
little
epiphany
of,
like
looking
at
looking
for.
A
B
I
love
that
you
pointed
that
out.
That's
so
cool
because
you
you,
you
articulated
exactly
like
the
whole
point
of
like
strategy,
is
like
to
build
assets.
Right
like
oh,
I
mean,
maybe
that's
the
whole
point
but
like
assets,
have
such
a
key
role
to
play
by
investing
in
something
like
contribution,
network
analysis
and
pushing
it
to
the
right
by
making
it
like
work
reliably
inside
your
organization.
B
Yeah
like
it
may
have
been
just
to
be
able
to
sense
connections
in
order
to
find
speakers.
But
what
happens
is
when
something
moves
to
the
right
it
starts
to
enable
other
value
like
it
can
be
used
as
a
lego,
brick
and
a
giant.
You
know
creation
that
you
don't
know
it
could
exist
yet,
and
so,
when
that's
a
building
block,
people
are
going
to
build
stuff
with
it,
and
so
then
you
realize.
Oh,
we
have
this
asset.
Now
we
can
use
it
in
these
other
ways.
B
B
A
B
B
A
That
we
used
to
do
network
analysis,
helped
us
find
these
people,
because
otherwise
it
was
a
needle
and
a
haystack
gut
instinct
or
asking
favors
of
friends
and
now
there's
a
real
easy
way
for
me
and
anyone
else
that
you
know
who's
using
these.
This
tooling
and
network
analysis
to
do
this,
and
it
has
lots
of
other
implications
for
other
things,
but
I
I'm
pretty
sure
that
all
of
the
a
number
of
the
other
companies
that
are
doing
source
code
stuff
have
had
this
baked.
A
B
A
A
Right
was
just
this
exercise
in
you
know,
figuring
out
how
much
the
paper
weighs
and
if
you
went
down
and
you
really
mapped
the
whole
thing
out,
the
digital
transformation
was
actually
like.
Let's
wipe
out
all
this
weighing
the
number
of
paper
forms
that
have
filled
out
as
pieces
of
paper
to
going
to
where
they
enter
them
on
the
website
and
just
taking
the
count,
and
that
I
think,
was
a
very
powerful
story
for
me
on
the
the
value
of
worldly
mapping.
A
B
B
Why
like?
How
much?
How
many
wonderful
different
things?
Could
those
people
be
doing
and
but
then,
of
course,
the
problem
is
like
in
many
cases
we
don't
have
like
organizations
that
can
teach
people
new
skills
so
so
part
of
like
what
really
motivates
me
about
sharing
worldly
mapping
is
it
creates
the
opportunity
for
us
to
create
more
purposeful
organizations,
but
the
the
the
sort
of
implication
is
that
we
also
have
to
create
organizations
that
are
organizations
where
people
can
learn,
and
I
know
andrew
clay
schaefer
has
some
really
good
talks
on
this.
B
We
can
really
create
more
intentional
organizations
that
are
capable
of
producing
better
outcomes,
and
I
guess
it
betrays
my
my
belief,
my
fundamental
optimism,
I
think
if
people
were
just
able
to
be
more
purposeful
and
if
tools
like
this
can
help.
In
that
sense,
I
think
we
do
a
lot
more
good
and
we'd
have
a
lot
more
like
terrible
things
in
the
world
like
children,
cages
and
things
like
that.
So
that's
that's.
What
motivates
me
about
this.
A
Yeah,
I
think
it's
really
interesting,
especially
in
the
in
covid
times
in
the
middle
of
a
pandemic.
We
like
internally,
everybody
is
shifting
that,
for
example,
from
face-to-face
you
know,
summits
and
events
where
we
all
would
gather
in
large
convention
centers
and
share
I'd,
always
walk
away
from
there
with
a
cold
every
time.
A
A
What
we're
watching
inside
is
the
shifting
of
gears
to
a
virtual
world
in
a
virtual
reality
and
the
retraining
of
people
who
have
massive
skills
and
events
and
stuff
like
that
and
understand
the
dynamics
of
you
know
good
peer-to-peer
engaged
events
and
applying
those
skills
and
those
understandings,
but
also
learning
how
to
do
all
of
that
with
new
virtual
platforms
and
and
and
like.
I
can
right
now
I'll
see
like
having
a
conversation
with
you
know
within
red
hat
about
you
know.
Where
are
we
at
with
this?
A
You
know
what
what
could
we
do
better
and
you
know
where
you
know:
where
are
we
missing
things?
You
know
and
yeah
and
that's
you
know,
and
I
think
pretty
much
every
I
think
it.
I
think
you
put
the
the
nail
on
the
head
or
whatever
it
is
you
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
around.
I
think
worldly
mapping
gives
us
a
way
to
do
it
humanely
and
with
purpose.
A
A
B
Lovely
awesome:
everyone
in
the
world
who's
watching
this
right
now
who
wants
to
learn
worthy
mapping,
is
welcome
to
direct
message
me
on
twitter,
at
hired
thought
or
if
you
want
to
email
me.
Another
way
you
can
find
me
is
ben
hired
thought
dot
com.
I
am
so
grateful
that
diana
diane
invited
me
to
talk
about
worldly
mapping
here.
If
you
want
to
learn
more
learnworthymapping.com
is
a
website
that
I
run.
I
will
help
connect
you
with
all
the
right
resources.
Please
I
love
hearing
from
you.