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From YouTube: Red Hat Enterprise Linux Presents (E07): Expanded RHEL Coverage in the Developer Program

Description

A show that features the people and technology that make Red Hat® Enterprise Linux® into the the world’s leading enterprise Linux platform.

A

So good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you're hailing from welcome to another episode of red hat enterprise, linux presents today we're talking about expanded rail coverage in the developer program, which is kind of a hot topic right now. So, uh mr mcbryan, uh this is your show. You brought on a special guest. Please share with us what we're doing here, you're muted too, by the way.

B

Well, let me fix that, first of all,.

A

Yeah there you go.

B

Do have a special guest today, uh mr brian gallagher, who's the principal product manager for red hat enterprise. Linux developer experience, um brian welcome. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what it is you do and.

C

Sure experience.

B

C

I work for the red hat enterprise linux business unit and, as you said, my title is experience, product manager and that what that means is. I look at things from a customer perspective and try to ensure that rel customers have a good experience.

C

My focus is developers, and that includes working um with the developer subscriptions working with the developer program, as well as providing developer content within rel itself. So I work with the engineering teams that develop the runtime languages, the compilers, the databases web servers and do the planning for all the releases and then assist marketing when we make the new content available. So anything, that's kind of related to a developer uh is is something that I'm involved with.

B

Yeah and um our very first episode of the show was with gunner um and one of the topics that we did for our technical demo was working with application streams, and that is that is your jam as well.

C

Right application streams is the method we use to deliver developer content within rel, so we make different versions of all the compilers runtime languages and databases available so that developers can select the the most appropriate one for their particular application. So if it's an application that has a very long life, you know full 10 years of rel. You want to use a different version, maybe of a database or a runtime language.

C

Then, if you're developing a new application, that has a very short life and you want to use the latest and take advantage of all the latest features. So application streams is how we make the different versions of content available.

B

But today we talked a little bit earlier in the week.

B

We want to talk about the expanded rail coverage in the developer subscription. So last week there was a blog announcement that came out, and let me preface this discussion by saying that if you go out to the developer, frequently asked questions currently or you take a look at the red hat, end user license agreement at this point.

B

You won't see a lot of the things that we talked about in that blog post right, so the blog post was our intention for this program and we're still working through a lot of the stuff on the back end like um that, the blog post talked about entitling 16 systems, and so what does that mean?

B

What what type of system- and you know our intention- is that you can use any type of physical or virtual node, but we have to get that through legal and what's the legal description look like and then update the license agreement and update all the documentation.

B

So before we start this discussion, I just want to remind everyone that until those public-facing documents have been updated, um that what we're talking about here is our intent and um where we would like to see this go until those are are updated. It's not really real right, it'll be really real when we have all the programmatic stuff completed and through um red hat corporate, so.

C

Right, that's that's correct and, as we said in the announcement february, 1st is our target date for having all this complete and we're still we're still driving towards february 1st to have all the the t's and c's ready to go for the developer agreement. Developer subscriptions.

B

Awesome so with that in mind um brian, what was announced last week in this blog announcement.

C

Okay, so we announced two things: first, we have a red hat developer program, that's easily, reachable through developers.redhat.com. That's our developer website. If you go there, click on linux you'll get all the information to join our developer program.

C

We have that program available to encourage developers whether you work individually, whether you work as part of a an organization whether you're a student. um However, uh you know whatever your your reason for for wanting to to learn about linux and develop uh applications. Is we make a developer subscription available? So you can learn how to use rel and to assist you as you develop your your route based applications, so that's available on developers.redhat.com, it's been there for, I think, almost five years now, so we we've had it available.

C

Now we announced uh last week some major changes to that program.

C

Up until this point, the rel, the free rail subscription, that's available as part of the program, was restricted to development use cases only and we're actually extending that now, so that a developer who joins a developer program and uses the free subscription can not only use it for developing on his or her laptop, or you know virtual machine, but can actually do integration testing and then actually go to a small deployment of up to 16, physical or virtual nodes and the reason we're doing that is to encourage developers to develop on rel, to stay on rel and to start using rel with their um as they go into production.

C

So we like to talk about the next facebook. Somebody in their dorm room is developing the the next new social media application.

C

We don't want them to have to stop after they build the app before they start deploying it. So we we we support um developers as they go into their testing and uh and through their initial production. Then, when they scale beyond 16 instances.

C

At that point, um you know support becomes important and they really should look at to at the various real subscriptions. We have that provide various levels of support, so that's the change in the developer program. We're extending it beyond just an initial system for doing development to up to 16 uh instances that allow developers to develop tests, do their integration and then go into their initial production testing.

B

So, just to recap, prior to the change being announced, I think we were limited to one dual socket system and then you could run some vertical machines.

D

That were entitled.

B

Raw guests on that one system, and now we're saying, is you'll, get 16 entitlements to use and you can choose any combination of physical or virtual systems to deploy those 16 entitlements on.

C

That's correct: it's it's 16, physical or virtual modes. It's not tied in any way to a particular cpu size or number of cores. um It's it's! uh It's open and available for for any physical or virtual note up to 16.

B

And that's a little bit different than commercial entitlements as well, because in uh you know, paid for rel subscriptions um you're counted every subscription for each dual socket pair or each socket pair. I guess not dual type repair. So if you had an eight socket system that would take four rel entitlements to get entitled now. We're saying in developer subscription is that same eight socket system in developer subscription would take one entitlement to.

C

Title right: we sell rel in different ways for for different size systems and different use cases, whether they be for a large number of virtual machines or or smaller machines or big, powerful machines. But what we wanted to do with the developer program is just make it as easy as possible. We don't want a developer to have to worry about the number of sockets in their machine or worry about how they're deploying virtual machines, because we know developers um no matter what their platform is, whether they're developing natively on physical hardware.

C

You know installing rail or whether they're running in a virtual machine on a mac or windows or or on a larger system. We don't want them to have to worry about counting, sockets and counting vms and dealing with with red hat entitlements. The whole point is to make it easy: you go you download the subscription and then you install and simple registration and you're up and running you're just limited to 16.

C

right. It's also important important to uh to to mention that our developer subscriptions are for individual developers. They are not for companies or corporations individual developer. Now that developer could be in a corporation it, uh you could be a developer that works for a very big company, and you just want to learn rel at home in the evening on the weekends. That's perfectly fine, that's perfectly legitimate, but this this subscription is not for a corporation.

C

The second part of the announcement that we made last week is, and that's what we call the developer for teams subscription.

C

This is a little different in its terms and conditions. It's still restricted to developers only and still has the various socket and virtual machine limitations that that rail has, but it's um essentially a tiered offering.

C

By that I mean that a organization, a large company has access to up to 25 000 entitlements, 25, 000, physical or or virtual nodes that can run in their organization at at no charge at no cost, and then we offer support uh either uh two-day support or four-hour support, depending on how critical it is to the organization and those are layered on top of the team subscription and that subscription is available for uh an organization, an enterprise, big company, and it's only available through the red hat sales motion.

C

So so you should contact your red hat sales representative to uh to obtain that that subscription and because no two organizations are the same. Some are big. Some are small. Some have business units, some are divided in different ways: some have developer organizations, some have many developer organizations.

C

The red hat sales team will work with you uh to properly size it to and configure it so that it makes sense for your for your organization.

C

Again, you get systems for development at no cost, you can add support to it and you get access to everything, that's available in our developer program, and that includes all the all the blogs all the articles. All the help guides videos everything we make available as part of the developer program and there's quite a bit. We've been doing it for five years we accumulated quite a bit. uh We have lots of helpful articles on developing cdc, plus plus applications or using the runtime languages or picking the latest version of python.

C

That's one of our most popular articles right is, is selecting the right version of python for your uh for your project, depending on whether you're migrating from an older version of a legacy app or developing a newer app. So those are the two things we we announced the individual and the team subscriptions.

B

I just wanted to get a clarification, real, quick, so for the individual developer subscription. um We said you can use it for development, testing, qa and even production, but it's all self-support correct for developer. uh For teams.

B

Are they also allowed to use across their organization in any environment, or is it limited to just dev or just evan qa.

C

It's limited to um to dev and test okay right now we have other subscriptions and different support offerings that can take you all the way through you know. If it's the icd pipeline, we can take you all the way from the initial developer.

C

Writing the code right up to pushing into production, but you just can't do it with this subscription, but we'll the account team will will put up a nice um set of of subscriptions together to you know, based on on your organization,.

B

Great, um like.

C

I said every organization is different, it's hard to to say: okay, here's this one subscription that works with. You know a service provider, an auto manufacturer, a financial institution everybody's different. So we think we have a good, flexible uh solution that can be tailored to anybody's uh developer. You know environment.

B

Awesome uh sure I I saw that we were getting some traffic in chat. Should we take a quick break and answer.

A

Some questions I've got it covered to be honest with you.

B

A

So there is one question about getting rail on digitalocean and linode. I mean I.

D

A

How that whole process works, but I'm pretty sure digital ocean and lion would have to ask us, or we have to ask them to put rail as an available os on their clouds. um It depends.

B

Right, so if um they allow you to make your own instances, you could make your own instances and entitle them with um subscriptions from red hat. We call that bring your own subscription or byos, and we do that today, with like you, can make an amazon ami using something like image, builder or amazon tools and entitle it using your regular red hat subscriptions if you're talking about putting it in the marketplace at those cloud providers, we have a partnership program for cloud providers, called the certified cloud provider.

B

What's cc, certified cloud service provider yeah.

E

B

Program and so digitalocean or linode would have to be members of that program in order to get uh essentially they they build their image. There's some testing tools that red hat provides to just make sure that it looks sane and then they can offer it for sale in the marketplace so, uh depending on which way you want to go byos, you can do it today, using your red hat subscriptions marketplace.

B

The cloud provider needs to participate in this certified cloud service provider program that red hat offers right.

A

Cool uh that, I think, is the only question that I can't answer.

B

So then, um there's.

A

No well, I will point out: there's no subscription fee for developers.redhat.com right, like you get that account for free right. That's it right like.

C

Yes, you get it for free, but it is for an individual and the individual signs are agrees to the terms and conditions and is therefore responsible. So yeah individual base right.

B

So, brian, a couple years ago I was talking with a co-worker at red hat and we were talking about centos usage and he was telling me that he uses centos for his wife's business mail server um and I said well what about something like developer program- and he said oh no developer program says it has to be for in development. This is my wife's business mail server. So technically it's production would that use case now be covered under the expanded developer program.

C

Yes, it would yes, it would and the reason we we include um things like mail servers, and uh you know, initial production is because it's very hard for a developer, an individual, a small team. We use expression, two guys and a dog in a basement right that that that's starting there developing their applications starting their business. We don't want that type of organization to have to worry about. Oh gee is this: a production case is my mail server production and my developer, my development, you know the runtime languages and the vm for for testing.

C

Is that covered or whatever? We just want to be very, very simple. You know up to 16 instances go for it. It's you know it's yours.

B

Great um and then you know, the intention is that at some point the same two dogs or sorry, two guys and a dog in a basement, uh gets to the point where they're now no longer two guys a dog in a basement right, it's like a you know, eight person, they have a office, and you know now, as your footprint is growing larger, you can either do continued self-support that you purchase from red hat or you make the decision to buy entitlements from red hat.

B

That includes some level of support, so that you don't have to bring all your own expertise every time.

C

That's right, yeah at some point things get critical. You have a business, you have a lot of people financially relying on things and you really don't want it to be down because of you know, for any reason, whether it be security, patches or or just simple misconfiguration, as you scale out your systems or something so having support and having a red hat support team available at that point, is you.

B

C

Very useful, so uh we want to make it easy when you reach the point where okay or a little beyond you know two guys and a dog, now we're you know, 20 guys in an office uh yeah, we can easily move to supported subscriptions at that point.

B

And so, even though the developer subscriptions come as self-support, do they do people who use them, get additional resources like red hat, customer portal, knowledge base or red hat insights.

C

Yes, they do um they. The developer subscription does come with with insights. It is available if you want to use our satellite server. Obviously that's a that cost, but you can use those subscriptions with our with our satellite server to make system management easy. It comes with um web console. You know image builder, a lot of a lot of the tools that that red hat provides for system.

E

C

That's all that's all included in the subscription.

B

Great so earlier, when I was telling about my friend who has what's running his wife announced over on centos, um if he got a new developer subscription and decided that he wanted to move that to rel.

B

What would be your recommendation for how he would do that.

C

Okay, well, he would sign up through the developer program um and I'm sure he would find lots of valuable content there. He would also have access to all our documentation, which would uh allow him to you.

D

C

Would give him uh you know instructions on on how to set up the server? He can also ask questions online. Other experts can can help him, there's probably enough information there already to do it um so yeah. We he has access to our our customer portal. He has access to our developer program. um There's lots of stuff there to to help him. Do it and of course he gets all the updates. He gets all the real updates. So um you know his his mail server will be secure. Yeah.

A

B

So would he have to install a new box and like move all this data over to it, or could he take his existing centos box and transform it.

C

It's it's up to him, um you know, would he if he wants to start clean? You know it's perfectly able to do that. We also have um centos around conversion software, that's available that he can. He can download, so uh he doesn't have to update any databases or configuration rules or things that he might have available.

B

Yeah and uh convert to rel is offered through the evil repository. uh That's the tool that will convert from scent to rel.

C

B

Linux flavors, like some of the other downstream builds, can be converted as well. If you wanted to standardize your environmental rail, but um so the tool is available through the evil. Repo there's also a knowledge base article that you can download it directly from that the developers just they generate tools, they update it both places and then you can convert from centos linux, 7 to rails, 7, centos, linux, six to rel six, although that's.

C

Why you would do that at this point, yeah.

B

And then there's uh you can also now convert from centos linux, eight to rel eight, and that's all about in place future configurations in place. um It is a fairly smooth transition.

A

Yeah, I just posted a link to the blog post uh from last summer. Talking about convert daril.

B

Yeah and um brian smith is a technical account manager at red hat um in the red hat enterprise linux youtube channel. He did a walkthrough of converting centos linux 7 to rel7 as a youtube. Video walkthrough.

A

Cool I'll, try and find that so there's a question: do you have to strip everything on top of the os before you move from centos 8 to rail 8 before you migrate, or can you just do it with all your applications and fun bits in place as it is so.

B

uh You should be able to do it in place with all your fun bits in place. So if, for example, your centos linux system was subscribed to the epo repository and you had installed a bunch of stuff from people uh when you do the the convert, um it's still gonna have the epo repo software installed. It's still going to be able to pull those packages from evol, so that would all be kind of in place.

B

um If you're doing uh you know you built a bunch of stuff from source and did source based installs, that's a little bit more questionable. It would likely be okay, um but that's one where it's like.

B

Even slight changes and right, libraries and other stuff can can potentially cause problems, but if you're doing packages and it's from repositories, those repositories stay in place and you'll be able to use them like you did before.

A

Well, you can't, can you use you can't use convert to rel to upgrade from like seven to eight right, like you have to do seven to seven eight to eight um yeah.

B

A

Like six to seven, I'm assuming I'm assuming right, that's correct.

B

However, uh we do offer an upgrade path from seven to eight, so you could do something really crazy.

B

Well, not really that crazy of converting from centos linux, 7 to roust 7 and then using our application called leap to go from rel seven to relay, and that is also an in-place uh upgrade that one's a little bit more um effort right, especially if you're using a bunch of third-party stuff, because you want to make sure your third-party stuff also works on the new version of rel um but yeah that that is definitely a method to get you upgraded, yeah, centos, linux, conversion to rel and then a rel in place upgrade to another version of brow.

A

As as the question asker mentions, he says I would rather do it fresh anyway. So thank you, though,.

C

A

Dropped a link to the blog posts and everything so yeah. I can't blame anybody for wanting to do a fresh, install as opposed to upgrading in place. You know, there's benefits and you know negatives uh to both so yeah. If you don't upgrade in.

B

Place you got to bring.

A

In your applications, if you upgrade in place, yeah.

C

Especially if you're a developer, yeah exactly you're.

D

C

You find yourself starting fresh, often yeah, yeah,.

D

B

Right well, um brian, do you have any additional guidance or directions on um anything? People should know about the developer sub or the new changes that we're proposing to it.

C

um Yeah, so the important thing, uh as you mentioned earlier, scott, is that it's february first is.

B

C

All this takes effect. um I do encourage people, though, uh right away to to go to developers.raynhat.com if you're not familiar with the site and take a look um there's a lot of open shift content, there's ansible content, there's middleware content.

C

If you click on linux across the top of the the home page, it will take you right into the the developer program uh and you can. You can see some of the things that we make available, uh including the ability to download the developer version of of rel and, as we said, it will be the old terms up until the first and then the new terms will be available. But uh take a look, I think, there's there's a lot of valuable, valuable content there.

C

So I encourage you to go, take a look and, if you're a rel customer today, I encourage you to talk to your account team about the the team subscription and some of the options that that will be available uh again february 1st and into the spring. When we make some more of these new developer offerings available and then our accounting can help you optimize the number of subscriptions that you have and the type of subscriptions that you have to meet your your business needs.

B

Great thanks brian, um so at this point I'm going to transition to just doing a walkthrough of registration and what that looks like on the other side. um You're welcome to hang out and give you some some guidance if uh you would like to or uh if you have other more important things to do, that it's also cool to bounce out. If you want like.

C

Okay, I'll stay around for a bit.

B

Okay, good good, to keep being honest yeah. I I lie a lot.

E

B

B

All right, so um I wanted to first share the uh developer program: registration page. So if you go to developers.redhat.com register that'll, take you to the registration link and it's a relatively short form where you define what your red hat login is or if you already have one you just put it in and then you fill in some additional details about the registration and and that's it um yeah.

B

So after this every year you will need to come back and kind of re-up and when you re-up it asks you for your uh red hat account and I believe your email and that's that's your way out. So.

D

B

It's pretty frictionless to um to get registered and get access to this to the subscription. Once that's done, um it'll show up over in your red hat subscription portal. So if you go to access to redhat.com and you log in with that redhat.com credential that you put into the registration form.

D

B

You'll see the red hat developer subscription show up in your subscriptions nice, so here I actually have a mix of um production subscriptions that that I've purchased and then because one of the users in my organization, actually two of the users in my organization, have registered for developer subscriptions.

B

That shows up in my subscription list and if you click into it, it'll give you a little bit more details of what's included in that subscription and after registration. It's pretty quick to show up in your account, it's, I think, less than 30 minutes to to get it reflected in your access to.

D

Redhat.Com all.

B

Right um so once you've clicked on the developer, subscription it'll tell you a little bit about it.

B

So, for example, it is a self-support subscription, meaning that you can't call red, hat or open support cases, um but you do get all the other stuff that comes with a real subscription like uh knowledge base access to the customer portal right.

A

B

A

Insights, jp data's asking is this the same account you would use to download images from registry.red hat that I owe, and I believe so I think it's the same one it can be. It could also be different, like you could set that up as a different one as well.

B

So I will warn you that user management for redhat.com is uh can be challenging.

B

So essentially, you can have one instance of a username and that one instance can either be its own organization and its own subscriptions, or that one instance can belong to a larger organization where that's one of several users that can belong to that other organization.

B

You can request that red hat include your credential in an organization. However, let me say this again, however, you can never get it back out of that organization.

B

So if this is your independent user account- and you want to keep it independent at some point in the future, then you need to keep it independent at all times and not blend it into to an organization, because the second you blended in an organization it can never be unblended.

C

B

Organization and made independent again right so um so here, a couple of the users in this organization registered their usernames with the developer subscription that has now shown up for the organization, and you can see that. uh Well, we talked about the self support down in the entitlement quantity because I have two of them. That's why it's showing up as 32 subscriptions available normally for an independent user. This would be 16 and it says right here: one subscription provides 16., the other is capacity per subscription.

B

So we talked earlier about how the intent is that developers shouldn't be limited by the size of their hardware or the type of their virtual machines they might be using. It should just be one subscription per one instance or box, and so that's what we're seeing here. There is a capacity limit, that's set of 128 sockets per box, but um that that's just kind of like a it is a field. That's required for subscriptions right, unreasonable number thinking that uh no one would get there so until they do, of course, until they do yeah right.

B

And then, um if you look at the provided content- and this is the place where I think it's it's- the developer subscription is really interesting. So in order to provide uh pretty much anything, you would want or need as a developer, we printed to provide everything as part of the developer subscription.

B

um The exception of that is satellite, because that requires um management, uh smart management entitlements as well. So it's in addition to a subscription, but um you know so we offer things like the red hat enterprise, linux server, which includes all versions right, six, seven and eight, um and then we also have the um the update.

B

uh Well, that's for sap server solutions. I was looking for eus.

A

Oh extended stuff.

B

It's in here yeah.

C

It's definitely in there.

A

It might be chopped because of the short title yeah. It looks like that.

B

That's it yeah, uh so uh red hat enterprise linux extended update support so that you can actually uh tie your system to a specific, extended update, support release of rel for real eight. That's every even numbered release. So eight two is a eus release, eight force an eus release and even though a newer version of rail8 has come out, we back port the important and critical security erada into that older dot release that we maintain for up to two years.

B

uh Also, we have things like the high availability product, which is um pacemaker and core sync to do your high availability, failover and service definitions.

B

What else resilient storage is uh gfs? So that's um your clustered storage file system scalable file system. This is for rel, seven and earlier. That's uh I'm sorry. Roll six, I think, is the only one that uses that now. That's for xfs support and rel8 uses, xfs, natively so and then down here for sap. So if you're an sap developer, we also offer url for sap, which is kind of like extended, update support where you can stay on a specific dot release of route for longer, and it goes beyond the extended update support.

B

But the intention is that you would run smp on top of that, because you're running sap is why you need that longer life span of the individual update releases of rail right so.

C

B

There is no sap included in this one. It is simply uh operating system with extended update support so that you could get sae from sap and run it on top of it nice. So yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff here, uh the code ready builder, so that's a whole bunch of development tools. The container development kit.

B

Ansible engine, which is automation, supported, ansible automation, so yeah lots and lots of stuff.

A

B

Yes, all right, so I see that uh jp david has a question. Oh.

A

Yes, it's a long one. Do you want me to read it out or do.

B

You, oh yeah, that's cool.

A

Okay uh in rel seven, it was easy to find packages in rel, eight, you have to start. You have started to hide breakout package and a bunch of different repos. These are called app streams. um What was the rationale in doing it? That way, what was easy to find in real seven is more difficult in rail. Eight and support is confused.

A

Where things are also would be nice if there was a way to search repos that are not enabled on the system, so you know where to go and what to enable so that you can get packages you need, like a super duper index, would work.

B

So so I actually would turn that around and say that in rel eight we drastically simplified the um the experience for repositories. So in rel seven and earlier we had uh rel server repository, that's braille desktop repository. We had a rail workstation repository. We had extras repository, we had supplementary repository and then there was like all the add-ons like ha scalable file system like all the other stuff, each one of those had their own separate repository.

B

So in rel eight world we have two repositories for all rail systems. We have base os repository and app stream repository and base. Os repository provides essentially the minimal operating system for rel and then app stream repository provides a lot of the add-on stuff, plus all of the actual application stream modular content for uh ral8.

B

So in order to get an analogous relate system compared to rail seven, you enable the base os and the um app stream repositories and that's it. Everything else is is in those two instead of rel7, where it was like rel7 server, plus supplementary plus extras.

B

um Now there are still a lot of repositories available for l8. So, for example, the high availability add-on is a separate repository. The ansible engine, ansible 29, is a separate repository. So if you want those additional products that sit on top of rel, you will likely have to enable additional repositories to get them great.

B

That said, two weeks ago we had rich dorito on and we talked some about subscription management, and one of the things that we talked about in that show was that you can define activation keys to register your systems and, as part of that activation key, you can identify what repos should be subscribed on that system. So if your standard build was base os, app stream, ansible- and I don't know.

B

Aj add on it in your activation key. You could identify that those are the repositories the system should be subscribed to and then, whenever you register with that activation key, that system automatically gets configured with those red hat repositories.

B

So there are some ways that you can approach that that's a a little bit different. um You may notice that, like all the source code repositories and all the um I'm sorry, not the source, good, the debug repositories right are all separate on rel8, and that might be where um some of the there's so many repositories stuff might be coming from.

A

So I'm trying to get some clarification. What jp date means by quote hiding um like va develop, he said: v8, develop's, hiding, node.js and devtoolset10 has not even called that anymore.

A

Oh, you have to go search to find things. Yes, that's to enable.

E

An app stream, you kind.

D

Of have to know which app.

A

Stream you're, enabling which it's kind of a chicken and an egg, I kind of see it from jpday's perspective right like okay, here's all these app stream repos, which one has my thing.

B

Okay, so there is one app stream repo. Let me uh let me pull up a box here and we can take a look at it.

B

So, working with application streams, I actually made a um live system exercise that you can do with it and kind of get introduced to it. So if you go to lab.redhat.com, it's called managing software from an application stream.

B

So take a minute to get the box provisioned here, but in this this walkthrough on a live system, um we're going to kind of check out what application streams are available, then we're going to install one of a specific version and then we're also going to change it to a newer version, because we changed our minds: cool, okay, all right- and we did this um in our very first show in october last year.

B

um This was uh the demonstration that we did with gunner as our uh was he chief strategist and grand poobah of rel or something.

A

Yeah, I forget his title to be honest with you, but yes, the rel master.

A

Not realm master don't be confused by that.

B

Okay, you dungeon master.

A

B

All right so um to set the stage uh this box is, is subscribed to base os repo and app stream repo right, that's the basic stuff that when you register a box, you automatically get on really okay. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to do a yum module list, and this shows me all of the modules of software that are offered through application streams.

B

So modules of software are groups of packages that are associated with a specific application, and you can see that for postgres here we ship three different versions currently 9 6 10, which is the default and 12 which became available in rel, eight three, I think, um and so, if you're interested in just a specific module. So maybe I'm only interested in looking at postgres.

A

Man, you can type, I believe in you.

B

Yes, I can one one day, um so you tell it the module name that you want and then instead of getting ql instead of getting uh everything that's offered as a module, you only get the one you specified right, so you can trim that down a little bit to make it easier to look at all right.

B

um So you will install one if we just did yum module install postgres, we get postgres10 because that's the one that's labeled default. If you don't want postgres10, you wanted something like postcards 9.6. You have to add on the version number and that's what is happening here in this command right, so I'm just going to click it to run it and it's going to enable the 96 module and then install the 96 version of postgres all right.

B

So if I look at the list of app streams available, that one is the one that's enabled and over here this eye here tells me that that's the version that's been installed in this box and we can verify that by actually running postgres.version right 96 was what was installed in the box.

B

Okay. So if you wanted to install postgres12 same deal, young module, install postgresql, colon, 12 and you'd get postgres version. 12 install this, then the default which is 10. all right. But then maybe you change your mind and you're. Like you know what I was running, postgres 96. I now want to run postgres10.

B

So how do I get there now? There's some administrative stuff you have to do too, like I want to make a backup or an export of your postgres database, so that when you get the new version of software installed, you can import all your data back right. So yep, I'm not covering any of that. I'm just covering the like application stream.

B

Yum module commands to flip flop, it okay, so you still have to do all those things um but to change the version of postgres that you've installed. You first have to remove the one that you've got and then install the one you want. So I'm going to remove postgresql 96.

B

All right, so it pulled off all the stuff that installed and we could take a look at the list of postgres modules available and what you'll see is that 96 is still enabled right. So if I just did yum module install postgres I'd get postgres96 back, so we're going to disable. It.

B

And then I'm going to enable the version I want- and I said that I wanted 10.. So there we go and now, if I look at the list of available application streams again for postgres right, it's the default and it's the one, that's enabled.

B

All right so now I do a young module install. I I'm specifying in the command version 10. If I didn't specify that's what I'd get, because it's both the default add enabled, but I want to just be explicit to be concise and now, if we look at the list, it's there right. It's a little install over here flag and then, if I show the version right, that's actually the version that's installed so.

B

Appstream repo from subscription managers where all this stuff is stored- and I would say yum whoops yum module list- is a good way to get a list of what's all available. What versions are available as application streams so ryan? I know this is your jam. Do you have uh any clarifying statements you'd like to make or corrections.

C

Oh, that's! That's a really good description. Scott thanks for thanks for doing that. Just just one comment is that not all application streams are modules, but most of them are so you know 99 of what you just did applies and that's the best starting point, but you will find some other application streams that are that are not modules so.

A

Some questions some comments, I'm just going to provide like a lot of info to you.

B

A

um So the ryan cook says this is simple, as well as confusing at the same time, so take that piece of feedback. What it's worth. uh Why can't you use two different versions? Okay,.

B

The same thing right: that is an excellent question right, so in rel seven world you could okay, but let's think about this for a second. So let's say that I want postgres, 96, postgres, 10 and post quiz, 12 all installed sure, aren't they all going to install and a binary called postgresql yeah. So how do I separate them and how do I make sure they don't stomp on each other and when I start up the server, aren't they all going to want the same port by default?.

A

By default, yes,.

B

So there's a lot of stuff, like they all have their own libraries to come along with them that are named the same, like there's a lot of stuff that conflicts and matches on each other and in rel seven we implement this with a technology called software collections.

B

There is a tremendous amount of work put into making them not mash into each other, but that essentially, what we ended up with is a binary called postpress ql96, a binary called postgresql pen, a binary called postgresql12 and then the same thing for like all the libraries and things, and that made it even more confusing.

B

So in real eight world we said all right: we're gonna, we're gonna um change this and actually stephen gallagher wrote uh a article for fedora. A blog called uh modularity is dead. Long-Lived modularity, where he kind of goes into some some of these things and how it's changed.

B

um So in rel eight, we said: okay, we'll offer a bunch of different ones, but you can have one. This is like the highlander.

B

There can be only one, and if you have a real need to have more than one on the same system, then what I would suggest is pull down something like the red hat universal base image and have several different containers running several different versions of what it is that you want on the box and uh that that would be a more elegant solution than trying to shoehorn them all into the file system and keep them straight and a bunch of other stuff.

A

So run them as individual containers as opposed to processes which a container is a process technically. So that's that probably is more elegant. um Yeah narendra just actually posted that, as you were saying that like how about using different versions of post ql in containers with podman um yeah yeah, it's if you need that kind of like multi database on one host kind of deal. I would recommend going that way anyway, because it does give you some more granular controls as well as standardization right, because we do have, I believe, ubi postgres images. Don't we.

B

Oh, we, I believe we do. I think.

A

There's probably redis image.

C

As well, okay, right exactly and- and that was exactly our rationale when we did relate- we had software collections and previous versions of rel. um We worked around all the issues to install multiple versions, but we've got pushback that it was first complicated to do it and then not all the the third-party tools could find the databases where they expected them to be with software collections. So we said with rel8.

C

We have mature container technology at this point, since 90 of our customers are going to be installing a single database on a system we'll optimize for that, and then we'll leverage containers for the the cases where uh you do. You do need more than one on a particular system.

A

A

Can we get all this stuff added to a regular, ubi, 8 repo? We can discuss that on the level up hour next week, maybe uh that conan so.

B

We've been consistently expanding, what's available in the ebi 8 repo right um and we're working on expanding it again um for the next release of reda enterprise linux. Up in 83, we included a open, jdk version of ubi. um You know, there's continuous improvement and expansion already happening there. I think and.

D

A

B

There's I'm sorry chris go ahead.

A

I was just going to say: remember the ubi patch packages or images roll with the rel. You know version as well right, so like ubi 8 is whatever version.

D

A

8 is latest right, so.

B

Yeah and they actually rebuild it every six weeks by default, right um and they'll, build it sooner than that, if there's a critical or important security errata that comes out that affects the packages for ubi8 um and if that's too quick or you need things that are not provided natively in the ubi 8 repos.

B

You can always use builda to build your own rel eight-based container, um so that if you build your own relay based container, then you have access to the full realm of related packages right. um The big difference is that ubi 8 was specifically designed to be redistributable, so anything that's in the ubi hate repos.

B

You can stick your software on top of and give to someone and it's freely redistributable to them with your stuff in it. If you do your own custom, rel relate, oh thanks. Brian uh enjoy your next meeting. um Thank.

C

You appreciate.

A

This opportunity, thank you so much.

B

uh If you build your own rel, eight container image from the rel eight repos, um it could be redistributable, but there's some stuff that you have to do through the partner program. In order to make that happen. If it's just like native inside your organization, I wouldn't worry about it like that's a perfectly valid way to build it and distribute it within your org.

A

So debt conan kudo points out that redis is.

B

A

Ubi 8 repos is that a licensing issue.

B

I don't, I don't know.

A

What the issue is there.

B

So there's another scott mick that works for rel, scott mccarty and he's the program or product manager that manages uh container tools and ubi um I've been in ping him real, quick I've been wanting to have him on the show for a while, um but I know he does a lot with the openshift shows, so I've been giving him a reprieve.

B

um Oh how nice of you? Yes at some point, I think in the next month or two I'm going to force him to to come, but he's the person that would be the definitive um have the definitive answer for it.

A

I'll ask him it might not be answered during the show, but I'll, let you know via uh discord once I get an answer.

B

Yeah and like I said, if, if you need redis and you're not trying to to redistribute it outside of your organization like you're, not trying to sell it to a customer of your own but you're, just using it within your organization, please build a make. Your own relate using the rel eight repos, which certainly does have red access on application stream.

A

Yeah and that's kind of how I would go anyway, right, like I wouldn't like my bespoke environment, is bespoke for a reason, so I wouldn't assume in every case that the image directly would just be perfectly fine for me. I would probably want to look at that source file and say: hey are all these parameters.

D

A

For my environment, yes or no and one or two flags might you might need or might need to turn off kind of deal in some cases. So just keep that in mind right, like you, can take that image.

A

You know the actual file itself and.

B

Build your own thing out.

A

B

Yeah the trick with that. One, though, is while we rebuild ubi every six weeks and to account for all the package, changes and updates and other stuff. That's happened. uh If you build your own bespoke railway now now you get to do that yeah, so uh you have to track it and you have to rebuild it periodically to make sure that you get all those updates and changes.

A

Okay, cool um so someone's trying to create oh there's a fedora image, so why okay so now the question is: if you're looking at chat, I'm trying to play along here, I'm trying to containerize pajer, which is a python basic repository with ubi8, which I would then ask it's a fedora project. Why.

D

A

Fedora image, um but I understand the reasons for you for using rel too so yeah, there's all kinds of reasons for.

B

That I actually have a lab that is on using already packaged rpms in containers and it starts off with ubi8 and it adds the eapal repo inside the container image and then it installs software from evil into the container image. So short, let me just throw you this link real.

B

B

So I will point out that I very much chose the packages that I installed to make sure that they wouldn't have broken dependencies or other things. So um I don't know what the dependencies for the application that you're trying to install in a ubi 8 container is so it may be that if it's too complex or the ebi8 repos don't provide the prerequisites that you need for the software that you're trying to install as a package, then maybe you should look at building your own, and actually we do that in this.

B

In another scenario, um bit that kind of introduces build uh and the buildus lab does ubi8 first and then it has you create your own custom, rel8 container after that. So if ubi doesn't provide what you need in its repos, then try building your own custom, one off the relate repos.

A

Yeah and and jp day's talking about gcc and how his our data scientists want a newer version of c that is greater than.

B

What we have available.

A

Right, like that's, where you take the ubi image and hand it to them with the version of c they want.

A

Hopefully that can help them, but if they're not comfortable with you know, containers they, there might be some training opportunity there, for example. So that would be one.

B

Path, so I know that we also provide several versions of the gcc toolkit as application streams with rail 8.. The latest one, I want to say, is 10 that came with eight to three. um So if it's even more newer than that, uh woof.

D

B

That's a hard road to hoe yeah.

A

um What's the latest version of gcc, I'm wondering at this point 10-2 so and that was released in july.

B

So let me take a look at uh what application streams we've got.

A

Gcc tool set not dev tool set.

D

Yes, okay, gcc.

B

A

B

Oh, and it looks like it may not be a module.

D

A

Okay, that would make some sense.

B

One second: I'm looking to see what.

B

I'm pulling everything: that's got uh gcc in its title.

B

All right so gcc tools that 10 is 10.0 and we released it um well. Actually I take that back.

B

Yes, gcc tool set 10.0, we released it with eight three in.

A

April yeah sounds right, but is it 10-0 10 0.

B

The gcc toolk toolset 10 rpm provides 10.0.

A

Okay, so if they need 10.2.

B

So there's a bunch of um library stuff that is gcc toolset 10 and a lot of the library stuff is 10.2.1.

B

A

All right um does that help you jpd at all.

A

I hope so so you just source that new version, like you did in seven right. That's the question: when you say source you mean install, I'm assuming.

B

Yeah, so you do a yub install uh gcc tools. Actually, not here. Let me share my screen knowledge. There.

A

You go yeah, you show us.

B

I'll just do it if I can type.

B

All right, so that's what it's called gcc toolset 10.

B

And so there's all the stuff that it's pulling in.

A

So 102.1 is what I see a lot of 1021 stuff.

B

Yeah but if you look, that's like the libraries.

A

B

But like the c plus plus compiler, for example, is 10-2-1. So um it's a mix but yeah. That's that's pretty much it and I want to say that there is a that this is in the well. I'm I'm not going to say that, because I'm sure I'll be wrong, and then scotland.

D

B

Will yell at me for saying things publicly that are true. I only lie half the time. Fine.

A

Terrible terrible.

A

Okay, so this, so this goes back to that now. The next statement from jp date is there's system versions and then user space versions of packages and relate so yes, you can have two right, like there's gcc native to the system that it needs and then the gcc and user space that your users can use.

B

So after this is done, installing, let's take a look at what gcc toolset 10 gave us, because there are a couple of packages like python, where we allow you to have multiple application streams installed in parallel because of reasons right. um So let's do our pmql 10.

B

all right. So that's really not that.

B

B

All right, so this one is probably more what we want to look.

A

At did you mean to do q dash out.

C

A

B

You you're welcome. I would have figured it out after darren yeah. I was like oh.

A

B

Okay, so that's docs okay, so you can see that what it's doing to allow you to keep it separate is it's shoved it into a uh versioned directory and opt to help, keep it separate from the other stuff. Let me see if I have other stuff installed.

B

Here all right so.

A

There's a cheat sheet gcc8 at the top right right, yeah.

B

And- and this is the gcc plus plus- that is the system provided one that's 8.3, so the way that they keep it separate is by showing it in this other directory, um similar to how we allow you to have both uh python 2, 7 and python 3.

A

B

A

Or whatever, actually, there's a couple versions.

B

Of python three now yeah but uh yeah, so yeah most application streams. There can be only one, but there are a couple of exceptions where you can have more than one and you fall into a a terrible abyss of sorrow um when, when you decide that that's the route that you want to go uh yes so jp dade says you gotta tell the system which version to use yes. So for things like python, we still use the alternatives utility for doing that.

B

So you can say that if somebody just uses sharp bang user bin python, it really goes to python27, or it really goes to python34. um I don't think gcc toolkit includes is included in alternatives. I could be wrong. I've not looked at it, but I know that uh things like python have that, so you can set what the system unversioned version of the thing is.

A

Which makes you wonder why eight is installed, there's kind of.

B

That's the one that we had two years ago.

A

Right yeah, there you go.

B

It was released.

A

Makes sense to me: okay.

B

Yeah, and- and this is one of the things where like rel, is trying to be more uh adaptive over time because in rel six world right, whatever was gcc when roll six was released. That's what you had for ten years. You.

A

B

Get anything else you.

A

B

That one yeah um and with row seven we we introduced software collections uh in real a, and I think we did a lot better with uh with application streams, because it it simplifies it to to mostly have only one thing on the system.

A

Mostly, yes, that's the key word well.

B

Rules are made to.

A

Be there's no such thing as a short section. Okay, I get it um especially with python the two seven to three six, whatever uh right.

B

Well, like ansible uses two seven, um and so we needed to carry it for. For that reason, um most other things like the red hat utilities that are python based. um Those had already been updated to python 3 by and large, so it the 27 was included to support some of the other layered products that were still using the older version of python.

A

And scott mccarty just got back to me. He says right now. None of the databases are available directly in ubi8. uh That said, when rel84 comes out, we're probably going to add redis, no matter what so there's the answer to that one for you. I believe that was detective conan.

A

um That was asking about that and then yes, you have to specify what you know in the user space, what version of whatever you're using to use.

A

So can we get maria db and postgresql too? Maybe uh when is the 84ga jp date is asking.

B

uh Let's take a look at the container catalog.

A

Yeah next may it. I don't think it's that far off. Is it.

D

A

Eight four.

B

uh It is in the spring this year. Yes, okay,.

A

This year, yeah not 2021, not 2022,.

B

Right because so we've gone to the six month, minor release. So in the spring we do a minor and in the fall we do a minor right and then we do have a three-year major. So next year, right, 2022 spring right, roll nine, so buckle up.

D

B

Yep there we go.

A

D

B

um Somebody was asking about updates.

A

Braille: nine ugg: we aren't off six yet ouch, sorry, dude.

A

But I mean this is the nature of the.

D

Industry, we're in.

A

Right, it's going to get faster as time goes on. It doesn't stay at the same pace. It's always increasing pace, as we have all increased time right. So it's it's almost like an exponent at that point. um Time goes on. Technology changes, go up faster and faster and faster. So.

B

There's also some benefits to going faster right, like um there's, there's a huge difference between six and seven right and there's a pretty big difference between seven and eight, um but by shortening the release. Cadence of nine there's not going to be a tremendous gulf between eight and nine. So things like the in place of grade utility, currently half for seven to eight becomes less challenging, going from eight to nine and less challenging going from nine to ten. um As we move through that the the faster release cadence.

A

Right, the idea is things, do get easier as we evolve right right and in general, not.

B

Always the case yeah, hopefully that's the intent anyway right.

A

We try, we really try.

B

Right and and the same thing with the minor releases of rel.

B

So uh there was a point in time where, like we would maybe do a minor elites every year to 18 months and sometimes we'd like to hold back the minor release, even though it was mostly ready because we wanted to get a hardware manufacturer, you know kernel module, enablement or something in there and so we'd hold it until it's ready um to try and pick that up and now, with rel eight when we went to the predictable release cadence, it's like look, we know it's the spring.

B

So if your thing's not ready by the spring, then we'll pick it up in the fall and generally that distance is not so far that it's um then it causes problems.

B

D

Right all right, we are.

B

Well over time, so.

A

B

I'm getting a clarification.

A

From uh scott on the other databases conan, so I'll get back to you on that as soon as he does um yeah great show today, scott, like very informative lots of diving in narendev, now knows that lab.redhead.com exists. um I said that, like a midwesterner, I'm sorry anything else. You want to say before we jump off the air here.

B

A

B

Everybody for for tuning today, uh I have no idea who's going to be coming in two weeks, but I'll continue to bring the heat um like.

C

D

B

Couple of weeks and uh yeah.

D

If I was really.

B

Talented I'd actually figure out a schedule more than you know half a week in advance, but I'm not that talented.

A

Well, you know we only ask for so much right.

B

Right eventually I'll get there, I actually was feeling really good. At the end of last year, I had like two or three shows lined up but uh yeah. I gotta get back on that.

A

Yeah last year's.

B

A

B

A

Yeah no kidding, that is a thing um all right: okay, yeah! So thank you. Everyone for joining this is the last show of the day for the channel, but tomorrow we've got all kinds of funness going on. We have uh openshift container storage office hours, we'll be talking about multi-cloud object, gateways, uh free developer, sandbox for openshift. We have a special show about that. um Then there is an entire openshift commons gathering on data science.

A

We're only going to be able to cover the first few hours of that and then we're jumping over to the github or get ops happy hour. um So all that is will be on the calendar. I'm trying to figure out diane sent me two different links to the the data science one. So I'm trying to figure out which link to go to and I'll get that updated today, hopefully so check out the calendar, I'll drop, a link to that in chat and stay in the know. um We'll see you tomorrow.

A

Folks appreciate all your time today. Thank you.

E

E