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From YouTube: 02 Panel: Navigating Transformation in Enterprise Kris Pennella Andrew Shafer John Willis Jabe Bloom
Description
OpenShift Commons Gathering @ Kubecon/NA San Diego November 18 2019
Moderated by Diane Mueller
Kris Pennella Andrew Clay Shafer, John Willis, and Jabe Bloom
A
C
C
A
E
Willis,
sometimes
known
as
botched
loop,
just
done
a
number
of
things.
I
am
the
co-author
that
Doc's
handbook
I'm
working
on
the
dev
sec.
Ops
am
but
a
couple
of
publications
sold
the
company
to
docker
the
company,
formerly
known
as
docker,
sorry
and
anyway,
yeah.
So
that's
about
it
and
I
work
for
Andrew.
You.
D
So
I
just
want
to
say
what
a
privilege
it
is
to
be
here,
first
of
all,
not
not
just
a
privilege
to
be
at
open
ship,
Commons
and
work
for
Red
Hat,
but
also
just
the
fact
that
we
can
come
to
this.
This
beautiful
city
and
spend
a
few
days
like
in
the
in
the
realm
of
the
spectrum
of
like
human
experience
like
we're
very
privileged
people
to
be
here
all
Aaron
in
this
room,
and
then
my
journey
here
is,
you
know
way
back
in
the
day,
2002
or
so
I
was
a
son
son.
D
Certified
Java
program
ended
up
working
at
some
startups.
I
ended
up
working
on
a
start-up
called
puppet
made
some
tools
to
help
people
manage
servers.
Then
I
went
from
that
to
startup
focus
on
OpenStack
that
was
sold
to
I
was
VP
of
engineering
for
cloud
scaling
with
sodium
C
and
then
the
last
five
years
I've
been
focused
on
Cloud,
Foundry
and
spring,
and
the
more
and
more
focus
on
kubernetes
a
pivotal
and
along
the
way,
and
really
the
thing
that
made
me
kind
of
interested
and
some
of
the
stuff
we're
gonna
get
to
do
together.
D
Right
now
is
this:
is
this
struggle,
that
is
the
rate
limiting
factor
for
organizations
to
get
better?
They
all
want
to
get
better,
but
you
can't
just
give
them
a
tool
and
then
expect
them
to
do
better.
If
you
don't
work
through
that
social
technical
system,
it
has
its
own
inertia
and
attachment
to
the
way
it
does
things.
Then,
then
the
technology
won't
solve
the
problem
by
self.
A
A
D
D
D
The
US
yeah
so
back
to
your
question,
I
mean
on
some
level
we're
we're
an
experiment
right.
So
I
was
in
conversation
with
Jim
Whitehurst,
and
you
know
the
person
who
kind
of
funded
this
experiment
and
there's
there's
this
insurmountable
opportunity
to
help
people
do
better
with
their
technology
investments
and
the
other
thing
I
think
that
Red
Hat
is
in
a
position
to
evolve,
especially
with
the
relationship
with
IBM,
where
you
have
this
story
about
open
source
infrastructure
and
open
sourcing.
D
The
structure
was
a
great
story:
linux
open
source
till
now,
but
now
literally
every
single.
Every
single
company
at
this
conference
is
trying
to
frame
themselves
as
the
open
source
infrastructure
company
kind
of
for
the
next
version
of
this
story.
So
what
is
the?
What
is
the
opportunity
to
differentiate
yourself
in
that
market,
where
everyone's
going
to
try
to
tell
you
that
they're,
the
open
source
infrastructure
company
well.
D
A
Transformation
or
DevOps
transformation
or
moving
to
micro
services
and
being
agile
and
all
of
that,
and
so
I
kind
of
would
like
to
ask
each
of
you
to
like
tell
me
what
transformation
means
to
you,
because
it
means
a
lot
of
things
to
a
lot
of
people.
It's
kind
of
a
nebulous
word,
but
it's
one.
We
use
a
lot
so
maybe
Christina.
B
Transformation
really,
in
my
opinion,
is
more
around
your
cultural
change
and
really
kind
of
what
you
as
an
organization
are
striving
for.
You
know
we
see
so
often
that
folks
will,
you
know
assume
a
tool
will
fix
their
organizational
problems,
we'll
just
lay
it
down
and
then
great
we'll
start
using
it
and
be
done.
E
Know
for
me,
you
know
one
of
the
things
we
do
a
lot
of
it.
We
waste
so
much
time
in
this
industry
arguing
over
terms
and
and
and
a
lot
of
it
is.
Why
do
we
bother
so
digital
transformation
and
noise?
A
lot
of
us
right
because
we've
heard
it
before,
but
you
know
clouded?
No,
you
know
like
how
much
you
know.
E
Sec
ops,
in
fact,
when
I
give
a
present
stationed
on
security,
I
say
everybody
who
wants
to
argue
about
the
name:
go
to
that
side
of
the
room
and
then
meet
me
on
that
side
of
room.
So
we
can
talk
about
how
to
fix
things.
So
we
not
the
digital
transformation
can
mean
something
for
us
and
we
need
to
stop
worrying
about.
Is
that
if
a
good
name
is
that
a
bad
name?
Is
it?
Let's
just
focus
on
the
things
that
actually
will
work
and
make
things
better
in
people's
lives
better?
E
C
D
C
By
looking
at
it
that
way,
there's
a
couple
kind
of
critique,
so
you
can
immediately
bring
up
most
of
digital
transformations.
That
I
see
have
some
end
state
goal
in
mind.
They
want
to
be
more
like
Google,
they
want
to
be
more
like
somebody
who
they
aren't
and
the
reason
they're,
not
those
people
is
because
they
don't
have
the
context
that
those
people
operate
in.
D
So
we
can
argue
about
the
semantics
later
so
so,
like
mathematically
I,
think
transform
has
some
interesting
properties,
but
the
the
feeling
that
everyone
has-
and
everyone
knows
when
you
work
in
these
enterprises
that
were
born
kind
of
in
the
past,
like
there
there's
a
live
work
that
I've
done
over
the
last
decade.
That's
been
in
companies,
some
of
them
over
a
hundred
years
old,
certainly
decades
old
and
and
all
the
people
working
there
have
access
to
internet
and
all
the
people
working
there
carry
a
cell
phone
in
their
pocket.
D
That's
essentially
faster
than
any
computer
on
the
planet
when
I
was
born
and
they
know
what
it's
like
to
use
Facebook.
They
noticed
like
to
use
Gmail.
They
know
what
it's
like
to
use
Twitter
and
then
they
go
into
these
enterprise.
It
working
conditions,
where
it
feels
like
this
off,
where
they're
using
is,
is
designed
to
be
actively
hostile
right.
D
But
it's
really
about
the
fact
that
we,
we
know
I
mean
you're,
seeing
like
these
there's
this
an
article
about
some
massive
failures
with
this
massive
investment
in
digital
transformation.
So
era
one
is
motivated.
That's
why
that's
why
everyone
wants
to
kind
of
jump
on
that
digital
transformation
train,
but
no
one
really
knows
exactly
how
to
get
from
where
they
are
to
where
they
want
to
go
without
without
a
little
bit
of
of.
D
Frankly,
love
like
you
just
need
to
people.
Do
things
for
two
reasons,
love
or
fear
and
and
a
lot
of
places
have
like
this
fear
and
they're,
not
they're,
not
attaching
themselves
to
like
what
they
could
actually
become
because
they're
too
busy
with
the
with
the
internal
politics
of
their
own
thing,
to
get
out
of
their
own
way.
You.
E
Know
so
for
me,
three
weeks
ago,
I
hired
on
RedHat
right,
probably
that
I
spent
about
two
and
a
half
years
just
visiting
banks
and
and
what
I
found
is
in
every
bank.
My
joke
is
the
sixth
floor.
The
people
are
talking
about
idle
and
service
management.
The
seventh
floor
did
talking
about
cloud
native
and
the
eighth
floor,
they're
talking
about
DevOps
and
they
all
use
different
elevators.
E
They
never
talk
to
each
other,
the
overloaded
terms,
and
if
it's
digital
transformation
or
whatever
word,
we
use
the
fix
that
see
I'm
a
meat
and
potatoes
person
right.
It's,
let's
fix
that
problem
in
a
large
institutional
bank
that
has
these
problems.
Where
little
you
have
you
know,
cloud
native
and
gr
see.
Risk
are
just
separating
at
a
gulf
rate.
That's
just
maybe.
A
So
if
you
bring
up
a
really
interest
point,
I
think
I've,
Andrew
and
you've
said
this
before
and
and
I
think.
All
of
us
have
probably
said
it
in
some
form.
Is
that
what
we're
trying
to
build
our
learning
organisations?
And
it's
not
just
the
technology
and
it's
not
just
the
DevOps
people-
are
the
IT
people.
It's
the
compliance,
the
risks
folk
when
you
go
into
a
bank
there's
a
huge
organization
there
that
it,
you
know,
wants
to
change.
You
know,
for
the
most
part
wants
to
get
to
be
Google.
C
I
mean
I
think,
like
the
immediate
thing
that
I
always
think
of
when
I
hear
learning
organization
is
shouldn't.
You
also
be
a
teaching
organization,
like
literally
the
importance
of
these
individual
communities,
teaching
other
communities
inside
of
their
own
organization.
This
is
what
I
do,
and
this
is
why
it's
important
for
you
to
understand
what
I
do
and
I
think.
There's
like
you
know,
there's
a
set
of
shared
practices
is
like
a
Pareto
practice
right.
C
20
percent
of
what
I
do
is
really
important
to
what
you
do
and
that's
all
I
actually
need
you
to
understand.
I
just
need
to
understand
about
20
percent
of
what
I
do
on
a
day
to
day
basis,
and
it's
if
a
digital
transformation,
that's
what
we
want
to
call.
It
is
going
to
work
that
conversation
has
to
be
with
finance
with
procurement
with
HR
it
can't
we
can't
be
successful
doing
these
transformations
inside
IT.
C
B
B
It's
really
there's
a
concept
called
hebbs
law
and
it's
about
loosely
its
neurons
that
fire
together
wire
together
and
it's
about
getting
to
that
20
percent
alignment
that
organizations
it
starts
to
click
even
grassroots,
wise,
just
to
get
things
piloted
and
get
folks
excited
to
start
building
these
inner
networks
within
there.
So.
C
My
last
company
was
called
praxis
flow
and
so
the
word
practice
means
theory
informed
practice.
It's
the
it's
a
basic
theory
that
says
you
can't
just
give
people
theory,
and
you
can't
just
ask
people
to
practice.
You
have
to
combine
the
two
together
in
in
some
sort
of
thing,
like
a
lab
that
people
actually
can
learn
to
exercise
the
theories
that
they're
hearing
and
that's
the
only
way
to
get
those
things
to
really
hook.
A
D
Then,
let's
get
that
to
it,
but
if
it's,
if
it
doesn't
need
a
change,
doesn't
you
scale
it's
not
expensive.
Leave
there,
it's
not
broken.
Let's,
let's
not
fix
it
so
cuz
you
can
spend
all
the
time
and
money
you
don't
have
refactoring
things
to
microservices
with
little
or
no
benefit.
So
to
me,
it's
always
not
just
so
like.
What's
what's
the
optimal
architecture,
it's
like
what's
the
optimal
solution
for
your
context,
there's.
E
Some
you
know
in
a
devops
world,
there
are
some
phenomenal
monolith
success
stories.
Etsy
Facebook
is
a
monolith
right,
so
it
doesn't
mean
that,
like
you're
wrong
in
the
context
of
DevOps
or
whatever,
you
want
to
call
it,
because
you
have
a
monolith
now
you
know,
for
me
again
is
where
I
feel
like
an
imposter.
It's.
E
Yeah
I
mean
millions,
you
know,
I
mean
banks,
you
know,
I
mean
top
100.
Banks
in
the
world
run
their
system,
a
record
on
IBM
mainframe,
db2
databases
right
like
and
by
the
way,
pull
out
your
phone
talk
to
your
bank
go
ahead
and
go
to
unto
Delta
and
go
ahead
and
do
a
tranche.
Everyone
is
going
to
go
back
through,
like
some
type
of
mules
off
to
WebSphere,
2mq
back
to
a
system
rack
and
running
on
a
mainframe
right.
E
C
Capture
and
I
think
there's
like
three
things
that
I
usually
like
to
kind
of
start
with
the
conversation
around
the
first
one
is
really
understanding
cost
of
change.
It's
it's,
not
technical
debt,
its
actual
cost
of
change
per
component,
so,
like
understanding
all
the
components,
what's
the
components
in
here
that
cost
the
most
for
me
to
change.
If
I
want
to
swap
this
component
out,
how
much
would
cost
me
to
change
that
now?
The
question
is
up
being:
do
I
want
to
pay
that
cost
or
not?
So
that's
that's
a
similar
conversation.
C
C
Analysis
of
those
types
of
things
trying
to
figure
out
which
which
ones
come
first,
which
ones
come
second,
so
I
think
getting
those
two
things
to
work
in
parallel
together
and
then
finally,
I
I
like
to
kind
of
frame
all
this
stuff
up
in
a
worldly
map,
just
to
actually
see
what
what
components
we're
talking
about
and
how
we
might
think
about.
D.
A
C
A
wordly
map
just
says
it,
so
you
can
take
a
classic
kind
of
architecture,
diagram
to
get
a
stack
right.
A
wordly
map
just
says:
hey
some
of
the
stuff
in
the
stack
is
important
to
your
clock.
Customers.
They
see
it
and
touch
it.
Some
of
this
stuff
in
the
your
stack
is
less
important
to
the
customers.
C
It
may
be
important
for
the
function
system,
but
it's
not
touched
directly
by
the
customer
and
then
there's
stuff,
that's
new
to
the
market
and
stuff,
that's
commoditized
in
the
market,
and
so
by
laying
your
architectural
stacks
out
on
these.
These
graphs,
you
can
kind
of
get
an
idea
of
things
over
here.
High
up
in
this
corner
would
be
highly
commoditized
and
touch
by
your
customers.
Things
down
here
would
be
brand-new
and
not
touched
by
your
customers,
not
care
about
as.
C
Right
and
and
then
it
allows
you
to
see
those
connections
between
things
and
do
an
analysis
saying
is
this
connection,
have
a
high
cost
of
change
or
not?
Is
this
component
have
a
high
cost
of
change
and
that
I
think
again
takes
kind
of
the
broad
brush
argument
of
micro
services
and
contextualizes
it
to
your
situation?.
E
It
was
a
I
was
reading
on
the
flight
in
last
night
that
the
GDP
of
California
is
like
2.5
trillion
or
something
like
that.
Top
five
banks
in
the
world,
their
asset
Holdings
around
2.5
trillion.
So
when
we
talk
about
changing
a
bank,
we're
basically
saying
we'd
be
better
off
changing
the
state
government
in
the
revenue
system
of
California
to
change
the
bank.
Just
put
that
in
perspective.
A
E
B
C
A
Promise
you
we're
not
leaving
the
dock,
we're
gonna
stay
here.
There's
I
can
see
the
weight
coming
from
the
big
ship
out
at
the
side,
yeah
other
one.
There
comes
again
so
a
lot
of
this
is
about
cultural
change.
And
how
do
you
sustain
that
at
an
organization
we
do?
You
know
you
do
a
workshop
with
open
innovation
labs?
You
might
create
a
wonderful
thing,
but
what
are
the
the
techniques
and
things
that
we
are
going
to
be
preaching
or
we
do
in
order
to
folks
just
to
continue
to
learn?
B
Well,
one
of
the
techniques
we
employ
is
around
building
communities
of
practice
around
both
you
know
technical
and
cultural
agility
adoption
because
you're
right,
it
is
important.
You
know
first
time
to
take
a
look
at
what
you
are
trying
to
do
based
off
of
a
set
of
goals
and
initiatives.
Then
how
do
you
take
that
to
scale?
How
does
that
propagate
out
and
I?
Think
when
you
start
small
and
you
learn
and
take
a
look
at
what
works
and
doesn't
work
for
your
organization,
you're
able
to
kind,
of
course
correct
and
pivot
as
needed?
B
D
So
no
one,
no
one
likes
to
hear
that
what
they
do
is
bad
and
and
humans
tend
to
attach
their
identity
to
their
task
and,
as
a
consequence
of
this,
then
a
lot
of
times.
What
you're
dealing
with
in
organizations
is
actually
people
hearing
that
what
you're
about
to
do
is
erase
their
identity
and
so
they'll
they'll
start
to
create
an
immune
response
and
resistance.
D
So
to
me
this
is
like
systems
thinking,
but
basically
like
you
could
try
to
push
change
harder
or
you
could
try
to
remove
the
resistance
to
change,
and
so
the
more
that
you
can
make
people
see
themselves
as
heroes.
In
the
new
version
of
the
story,
then
the
more
receptive
they
are
to
to
building
these
these
bridges
and
and
doing
that
new
kind
of
work,
I
think.
A
That's
a
lot
of
what
we
try
and
do
in
the
Commons
too.
It's
not
like
we're
trying
to
you're
all
heroes
to
me,
but
is
to
make
sure
it
is
to
share
the
podium,
is
to
get
people
to
share
their
stories,
their
war
stories
that
you
know
what
the
good
the
bad
the
ugly
is,
but
to
to
give
everybody
a
voice
and
to
try
and
bring
out
those
stories.
I
think
that's
a
lot
about
why
the
Commons
has
had
the
success
that
it
has.
A
C
In
particular,
in
my
experience,
the
it's,
it's
pretty
easy
to
identify
how
your
hero's
a
developer
like
it's,
actually
a
pretty
common
story.
You
can
pick
up
books
anywhere
talk
about
being
hero
as
a
developer.
It's
pretty
easy
to
figure
out
to
be
a
hero
as
a
CEO.
At
least
you
can
go
to
any
airport
and
go
into
there's
like
a
dozen
books
on
how
to
be
a
hero
as
a
CEO
middle
managers,
though
middle
management
is
completely
devoid
of
stories
about
heroes
as
middle
managers.
C
C
I
try
to
do
so
like
I,
like
the
one
of
the
things
I
like
to
say
is
the
the
number
one
indicator
that
your
transformation
is
being
successful.
Is
the
increase
in
pure
Weis
communications
in
middle
management
so
and
it's
partially
about
creating
a
stage
like
you're
describing
someplace,
where
they
can
talk
to
each
other
in
practice
telling
their
stories
to
each
other
they'll.
C
The
other
one
that
I
really
like
it's
subtly
different
than
what
I
think
see
in
a
lot
of
organizations
is
it's
called
a
boundary
spanning
role.
A
boundary
spanning
role
is
kind
of
like
you
can
think
about
it,
like
most
agile
coaches
are
in
teams.
What,
if
you
had
a
coach
that
sat
in
between
teams
that
literally
their
only
job
was
to
make
sure
the
team's
understood
that
20%
of
their
shared
practices,
and
that
was
their
entire
specialty-
was
to
accelerate
that
conversation.
So.
E
I
was
try
to
shut
up,
but
I
can't
no,
because
I
want
to
I
want
to
say
something.
We
were
at
a
client
site
the
other
day
right
and
he
was
telling
he
was
telling
the
client
this
guy
crazy.
Sorry,
he
was
telling
the
client
don't
think
about
roles,
think
about
skills
and
one
of
the
phrases
that
he
uses.
I
thought
was
so
brilliant
was
the
liquidity
of
your
skill
set
Chris.
E
It
was
just
beautiful
right
there
and,
and
the
idea
that
like
we
can,
they
can
focus
on
our
roles
and
how
do
our
roles
overlap
and
what
is
our
tree
look
like
and-
and
he
was
telling
this
group
of
like
30,
40
leaders,
coaches,
they
ran
into
our
dojo.
It
was
all
the
coaches
in
the
dojo
and
they
they
couldn't
stop
taking
notes
when
he
was
describing
this
notion
of
its
skills
and
liquidity.
I
just
thought
it
was
I
mean
I
was
taking
notes.
E
D
We're
still
figuring
out
what
we
do
here,
but
we
have
been
meeting
customers
and
we
have
a
meeting
product
team
and
the
sales
team
and
we're
just
I
think
we're
gonna
partner
with
Christine
pretty
much
going
forward
every
every
day.
We're
gonna
work
on
something
so
we're
just
trying
to
get
in
the
mix
of
it.
But
to
add
to
your
point:
Andrew
clay,
Schafer
LinkedIn
reach
out,
if
you
want,
have
more
conversations
like
this
I'm,
also
a
little
idea.
If
you
want
to
see
random
comments
about
tacos
right
now,.
E
Jay
Willis
at
Red,
Hat
bacha
group.
For
those
you
know
me
I'm
gonna
focus.
You
know,
Andrews
giving
me
sodas
green
light.
I've
been
blessed
two
years
really
focusing
on
what
does
cloud
native
and
governance
risk
compliance
really
mean.
How
do
we
deal
with
this?
How
do
we
get
kind
of
grab
it
back
deficit
cops.
Come
automated
governance.
I
wrote
a
publication
with
a
couple
large
banks
about
how
do
we
start
changing
subjective
attestation?
If
that
makes
sense
into
objective
attestation,
I
don't
want
to
say
blockchain,
but
no,
but
the
point
is
that's
I'm
really.
C
Trees,
I'm
super
excited
to
explore
kind
of
a
very
particular
thing.
It
seems
like
it's
likely
that
agility
isn't
is,
is
necessary,
but
not
sufficient
for
a
lot
of
the
things
that
enterprises
are
dealing
with,
on
the
other
hand,
kind
of
like
open
source
software
development
large
distributed
platform
development
like
hey,
maybe
that
has
something
to
offer
that
these
scaled
frameworks
that
have
been
inflicted
can
I
use
that
word
on
organizations.
Maybe
this
this
way
of
working
with
openness
is
something
that
we
can
really
help.
A
C
A
D
About
so
just
add
to
that
point:
I
don't
think
gameis
would
have
been
here
if
I
didn't
have
such
a
kind
of
residence
with
the
way
Jim.
Why
Hurst
talks
about
open
organizations
and
and
some
of
the
discussions
we
had
before
before
we
got
offered
jobs?
Basically,
he
he
watched
a
video
I
made
of
a
talk.
I
did
called.
There
is
no
talent
shortage,
and
then
we
just
had
this
like
super
deep
mind,
meld
conversation
about
how
to
take.
D
You
know
kind
of,
like
the
grounds
up
version
of
organizational
learning
and
openness
and
transparency
and
accountability,
and
this
kind
of
CEO
level
framing
of
that
and
just
the
opportunity
to
try
to
make
that
real
in
the
world
with
the
with
the
platform
that
Red
Hat
has
was
is
is
I,
don't
know,
I
feel
like
we
have
a
once-in-a-lifetime
special
opportunity
to
try
to
do
something.
Chris.
B
A
A
Years
now
I
mean
it's
been
really
impressive
for
me
up,
I,
don't
I'm
not
in
sales
or
anything,
so
don't
care
that,
but
the
people
who
have
come
out
of
it
have
just
raved
about
it.
And
how
do
we
scale
that?
How
do
we
get
that
to
the
next
level
and
bring
that
to
all
of
the
enterprises
and
all
of
our
customers
and
enable
them
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
working
with
you
all?
So
thank
you
for
coming
aboard
the
good
ship,
Red
Hat
and
we'll
have
them
back
for
the
AMA
session.