►
From YouTube: End Users (July 7, 2022)
Description
Meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KQalBRzfRBvsqh73JUYfp1KG-AJdXcv2Z8LTIFoQP8c
C
A
B
B
B
D
B
A
So
I'm
Jack
I
work
for
Shopify,
as
it
says
in
the
notes
already
I
remember
talking
to
Jonathan
about
the
slight
over
representation
of
vendors
and
sorry
to
my
Wipro
friends
service
providers
in
in
the
machinations.
So
we
were
Keen
that
there'd
be
some
sort
of
end
user
voice
and
I
think
it's
still
early
days,
but
I'm,
hoping
that
that
will
become
more
of
a
thing
as
we
go
and
that
we
ensure
that
there's
a
distinct
end
user
voice
in
the
community.
D
But
at
the
same
vein
you
know
you've
got
to
think
from
an
inside
out
Enterprise
perspective.
How
do
you
help
Enterprises
consume,
not
just
more
open
source,
but
also
all
of
this
lovely
tooling.
This
community
builds,
but
you
know,
there's
a
new
tool
a
week
out
there,
it's
very
hard
for
an
Enterprise,
too
wrap
their
arms
around
what
to
use.
B
Welcome
so
before
we
get
started
on
our
pretty
short
agenda
today,
not
that
there's
not
much
to
say,
but
the
agenda
is
short.
Is
there
anything
else?
People
would
like
to
add
to
the
agenda
right
now.
If
you
look
at
the
agenda
doc,
we've
got
reviewing
the
definition
that
nobody
has
worked
on
yet,
including
myself
and
then
any
other
business.
Is
there
any
other
business
people
would
like
to
add
to
the
agenda
for
today,
something
you
would
like
to
discuss
either
today
or
in
the
future.
D
Well,
I,
you
know
just
one
question:
maybe
this
is
a
good
time
as
we
get
into
definition,
but
end
user.
Is
that
even
the
right
terminology,
because
end
user
I
get
it?
You
know
it's
more
on
the
consumer
side
of
Open
Source,
but
if
this
is
purely
like
an
Enterprise
or
organizational
component
like
I
I,
just
wonder
if
that's
the
right
name,
it
took
me
a
while
to
figure
out
what
the
end
User
Group
meant
on
slack
before
I
joined
it.
D
B
A
Squeeze
in
a
mention
of
a
project,
I've
worked
on
called
Sia,
which
is
talking
about
how
to
prioritize
projects
according
to
risk.
Some
of
you
may
have
seen
my
presentation
at
open
source
Summit,
North
America
you
might
not
have,
but
also
for
people
who
are
watching
the
recording
later
I
wanted
to
mention
it
in
passing,
because
I
think
it
has
some
some
bearing
on
our
thinking.
D
B
A
It
sure
so
trying
to
give
a
very
potted
summary
come
this.
This
comes
out
of
the
securing
critical
projects
group.
One
of
the
missions
of
of
the
securing
critical
projects
group
is
to
identify
projects
that
need
attention
and
to
rank
them,
basically
according
to
how
how
much
attention
they
need
or
how,
soon
or
in
what
priority
order
should
they
be
attended
to,
and
this
is
necessary
in
no
small
part,
because
Alfred
Omega
needs
it
Alpha
Omega
has
you
know,
limited
resources
and
unlimited
Ambitions,
and
we
need
to
work
out
in
what
order.
A
Particularly
you
know
what
projects
we
identify
as
belong
to
the
alpha
bucket,
as
well
as
projects
to
the
Omega
bucket,
so
towards
that
we
have
the
criticality
score,
which
is
data
driven.
We
also
have
efforts
like
the
Harvard
census
of
Open
Source
software,
which
is
also
data
driven,
but
the
argument
is
that
not
all
data
that
we
wish
was
available
is
available.
A
So
the
basis
of
Siri
is
to
ex
to
elicit
expert
opinion
to
deliberately
go
out
and
find
people
who
know
something
about
projects
and
ask
them
to
say
How
likely
is
something
bad
to
happen
with
regards
to
this
software
product
or
project,
and
when
it
does
happen,
how
bad
are
we
talking?
What's
what's
the
scale
of
magnitude,
there's
a
lot
more
detail
than
that
there's
a
prototype.
A
Hopefully
the
talk
will
be
online
in
the
next
week
or
two.
So
that
will
be
easier
for
folks
to
see
it
in
more
detail.
The
reason
I
bring
this
up
to
the
end
user
group
is
that
again,
I
don't
want
it
to
be
dominated
by
vendors.
Only
like
I
want
to
make
sure
that
there's
a
what
as
wide
and
as
variegated
a
mix
of
inputs
as
possible,
that
the
more
and
more
different
kinds
of
people
give
their
opinions
give
input
to
this
process.
The
better
the
X.
C
A
A
A
We
say
what
are
your:
what's
your
three-point
estimate,
your
estimate
of
worst
case
best
case
in
most
likely
case
for
the
frequency
of
something
bad
happening
in
the
magnitude
when
it
does
happen,
and
we
we
roll
those
up
into
a
distribution
and
then
we
roll
those
distributions
up
into
a
ranking,
so
I
do
go
into
it
in
detail
on
the
talks.
I'm,
sorry
that
I'm
I'm
hand
waving
away,
but
I,
don't
also
don't
want
to
hijack
the
whole
meeting
and
also
cognizant
that
everyone
has
another
another
meeting
coming
up.
A
B
A
Yeah
I
do
I
do
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
as
widest
bread
as
possible,
so
as
and
when
that
system
comes
online
over
the
next
I.
Don't
know
6
12
18
months,
who
knows
how
the
the
wind
will
blow
I
will
be
definitely
making
sure
that
we
get
as
many
people
from
end
user
organizations
as
possible
to
spread
out
the
expertise.
A
B
C
Which
you
created
to
start
a
discussion
about
formulating
a
definition
for
what
an
user
is
and,
and
then
I
did
some
sort
and
and
interestingly,
like
there's,
been
some
research,
that's
also
done
in
the
Academia,
so
I'm
now
looking
at
it
from
it,
and
there
are
some
papers
about
like
how
like
these
impact
and
then
there's
also
the
industry
definition
of
like
yeah.
That's
that's
also
provided
through
some
links
in
like
Wikipedia
and
others
that
that
are
also
business.
C
I
added
I
think,
like
I,
remember,
adding
like
one
paper
that
was
done
like
as
considered
as
one
of
the
early
research
in
that
particular
list.
The
the
point
that
I
am
trying
to
make
is,
when
you
are
looking
at
this
again
I'm,
just
a
consumer
in
this
particular
case,
I
want
to
like
listen
into
the
conversation
and
learn,
but
at
the
same
time,
I
thought
thought
that
like
when,
when
formulating
a
conversation
or
a
definition,
there's
already
been
some
work
done
in
the
Academia.
C
C
Someone
else
yes,
I
mean
typically
in
an
industry
like
like
the
end
users
of
a
software
would
be
like
the.
It
could
also
be
like
within
the
organization
who
are
like,
oh,
like
the
product
owners,
who's
who's,
doing
that,
so
that
that
also
falls
into
the
broad
perspective
whereas,
like
when
I
look
into
the
academic
definition,
it
was
probably
looking
like
focusing
on
external
users
more
than
the
other.
So
so
there's
there's
that
perspective.
That
again
frankly,
I
I'm
I,
don't
have
a
clear
idea.
C
A
Are
not
specifically
about
validation,
Technologies
yeah,
like
exactly
I'm,
not
interested
in,
like
the
vendors
who
consume
Cloud
native
Technologies
to
create
further
products,
I'm
I'm
interested
in,
like
the
the
last
step
before
a
regular
Market
consumer.
So
you
know,
like
the
step
before
you
get
to
somebody
who
buys
banking
somebody
who
buys
food
at
the
supermarket.
You
know
so
the
person
who
who
vents
something
that
is
not
technology
or
technology
services.
To
me,
that's
that's
the
thing.
So
it's
to
me
I've,
usually
thought
of
this
as
more
of
an
exclusionary
definition
like
I
Define.
B
B
How
we
are
using
that
will
itself
be
insecure
right
if
you're
using
rotten
food
in
a
an
otherwise
good
recipe.
Your
otherwise
good
recipe
will
be
shot
to
help
and
it
will
be
a
bad
recipe.
It
will
taste
bad,
it
might
poison
people.
So
that's
what
we're
looking
at
are.
Essentially,
what
are
the
ingredients
we
are
putting
into
our
product
our
end
product
and
that's
how
we
are
the
end
user,
because
we
are
the
ones
creating
the
thing.
The
end
user
of
Open
Source
projects.
D
But
that's
where
I
was
I,
guess
an
end
user
could
be
a
college
student
writing
code.
It
could
be
somebody
in
the
Enterprise
and
that's
kind
of
where
I
had
the
question
initially
I
brought
up
like.
Are
we
thinking
about
this
from
an
Enterprise
perspective
or
a
I?
Don't
know
if
Enterprise
is
too
narrow
for
definition,
but
something
about
a
company
annotation
like
there's
a
business
user
versus
a
individual,
doing
it
for
fun
or
hobbyists
or
college
student,
or
something
else
like
what
is
the
scope?
D
B
Well,
I
believe
it's
it's
because
in
Wipro
we
work
with
a
lot
of
different
end
users,
and
some
of
them
are
Enterprises
right.
Some
of
them
are
telcos,
some
of
them
are
governments.
We
have
Academia
right
and
we
also
ourselves
are
end
users,
because
we
are
consuming
open
source
to
build
solutions
for
these
people,
so
it
is
rather
a
large
group.
E
Hi
all
this
is
Andrew,
sorry
for
for
joining
late,
so
I
when
we
joined
when
Wipro
joined
I
had
this
conversation
with
Brian
about
establishing
the
end
end
user
user
group
and
the
idea
the
focus
really
was
on
Enterprises
and
like
Jonathan's,
like
you
know,
City
and
and
others
as
opposed
to
vendors,
which
is
what
the
community
is
mostly
made
up
of
today.
Right
now,
the
end
user,
consumers
and
Enterprises
denote
a
large
Global
organization.
D
And
I
think
that's
that
that's
exactly
my
understanding
right,
whatever
name
we
gave
it
but
I
think
like.
We
should
be
focused
on
organizations
right,
whether
public
sector,
private
sector,
but
we're
really
looking
at
this
in
the
context
of
organizations,
not
necessarily
individuals
outside
of
the
context
of
an
organization.
E
D
E
D
B
B
D
B
Think
this
is
one
of
those
things
where
we
might.
It
might
be
helpful
to
fall
back
on
the
prior
art
of
other
Linux
Foundation
groups
and
Beyond
Linux
Foundation
groups,
because
we
do
have
cncf
end
users,
and
that
is
about
organizations
we
do
have.
Openstack
has
an
end
user
group,
and
that
is
for
organizations.
B
Various
Apache
projects
have
end
user
groups
and
those
are
for
primarily
organizations,
so
I
think
because
end
user
does
have
this
history
within
free
and
open
source
software
foundations
and
projects.
It
probably
makes
sense
to
stick
with
that
and
just
be
very
clear
in
whatever
documentation
we
provide.
What
do
we
mean
by
that?
And
that
starting
documentation
is
the
definition
doc
that
we're
working
on,
to
which
I've
already
added?
Specifically
just
a
note.
E
A
two
three
sentence:
definition
right,
just
simple
and
clear:
the
the
challenge
I
think
with
consumers
using
the
tune
term
consumer,
which
is
something
that's
been
traditionally
used
for.
This
is
the
fact
that
people
organizations
that
are
large
producers
also
are
large
consumers
right,
Microsoft's
and
and
Googles
of
the
world.
Not
only
are
producers
but
they're,
also
consumers,
so
I
think
we
need
even
large
Enterprise
what
we
would
call
Enterprises
like
a
city
right
is
now
a
producer
and
not
just
a
consumer.
A
No
there's
no
I,
don't
think
there's
any
sort
of
like
if
I
wanted
to
get
fancy
like
crisp
logic
approach.
You
know
something:
I
could
program
to
a
computer
as
a
as
a
bully,
it's
more
of
a
fuzzy
definition
in
the
sense
of
fuzzy
logic,
so
things
belonging
to
things
with
sets
of
degree,
degrees
of
membership
and
the
question
I
often
use.
That's.
That's
helpful.
A
A
Even
if
you
know
you,
your
culture
is
dominated
by
one
or
another
sort
of
subdivisions
or
kinds
of
professional
Outlook.
It's
the
money.
What
they
give
you
money
for
that,
ultimately,
is
the
business
that
you're
in
so,
for
example,
people
think
of
Google
as
a
technology
company
it
it
sort
of
is
but
really
the
money
that
comes
through
the
door
is
mostly
coming
through
the
door
for
advertising
operations
and
there's
a
fair
amount
of
money
now
coming
through
for
cloud
services,
foreign.
E
Disagreeing
just
trying
to
understand
a
little
bit
more.
How
does
a
Comcast
or
Verizon
or
British
Telecom
fit
into
that
kind
of
a
category,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
they
receive
a
lot
of
money
for
a
telecommunications
services
but
they're
both
a
producer
and
consumer
of
Open
Source
in
large
quantities.
A
A
E
E
A
A
C
E
Maybe
we
solve
we
look
at
is
the
bell
curve
and
we
solve
for
the
you
know
the
80
20
rule.
If
you
look
at
the
Enterprises
or
or
large
organizations,
the
vast
bulk
are
still
primarily
end.
Users
are
consumers.
If
you
look
in
healthcare,
you
look
in
in
other
verticals,
even
in
in
public
sector
organizations
across
the
planet,
they
by
and
large,
are
still
primarily
consumers
of
Open
Source,
not
producers,
foreign.
A
E
C
B
Go
us
okay,
well,
the
any
other
business
we
have
is
fairly
minimal.
Jacques
already
fill
this
in
about
Seer,
and
so
we've
got
a
heads
up
on
that.
Coming
down
the
pipe
and
Varun
wanted
to
know
whether
end
user
is
the
right
name.
It
looks
like
we've
kind
of
set
alone.
Yes,
as
long
as
we
Define
that
oops
sorry
I
think
we.
E
E
B
E
B
C
B
B
Look
forward
to
that
day,
but
for
now
I'm
gonna
go
with
if
at
the
moment,
so
that's
pretty
good
I
think
that's
a
good.
We've
got
a
good
start
to
a
definition
that
we'll
need
some
wordsmithing
and
then
we
can
move
from
there.
What
would
we
start
to
what
would
be
next
on
our
list
of
things
to
do
right.
E
B
C
E
B
A
Yeah
and
like
I,
like
the
technical
Vision
as
an
inspiration
in
terms
of
the
conversations
that
I
had
with
Jonathan
when
we
were
sort
of
mutually
commiserating
about
how
how
we
sort
of
saw
the
current
composition
of
of
Open,
ssf,
Leadership
I
I
would
say
that
we
were
determined
that
end
users
should
have
a
voice.
That
was
distinct
and
you
know
unignorable
impactful.
A
You
know
impactful
yeah
right
so
distinct
and
impactful,
so
able
to
ensure
that
the
particular
interests
of
folks
who
don't
do
this
so
to
speak,
for
a
living
or
for
whom
it
is
not
necessarily
their
day-to-day
or
primary
focus.
I
heard,
and
that
can
be
difficult
because
of
the
simple
economics
of
the
thing
that,
if
you
don't
do
it,
if
you
don't
do
a
thing
for
money,
you're,
probably
not
doing
it
full
time.
A
A
B
E
From
a
little
bit
of
each
the
different
elements
of
the
technical
vision,
I'm
just
kind
of
going
through
it
and
thinking
about
it,
but
I
think
the
last
sentence
is-
is
pretty
important
here.
The
open
ssf
provides
tools,
Services,
training,
infrastructure
and
resources
available
to
end
users
use
our
definition
to
achieve,
and
then
that's
where
we
distill
some
of
the
elements
of
the
the
the
the
part
of
the
technical
Vision
above
it.
A
B
A
For
example,
you'd,
like
the
assistant
assessment
given
to
node.js,
or
you
know
that
assistance
that
has
been
mooted
amongst
those
of
us
who
participate
in
package
ecosystems.
You
know
like
what
is
it?
We
want
the
open
ssf
to
help
us
with
that.
We
that
we
struggle
to
do
by
ourselves
individually,
so
this
several
I
think
sorry
for
cutting
you
off
well,.
E
B
Yeah
I
think
that
is
one
thing
in
all
the
conversations
we've
been
having
that
has
been
missing
right,
I
hear
a
lot
from
people
in
cyber
security.
Infosec
I
hear
a
lot
primarily
thanks
to
yusha
for
putting
together
that
group
for
package
management
and
a
lot
about
Developers,
but
the
target
audience
of
the
end
user.
A
Yeah,
that's
that's
been
my
feeling,
you
know.
I
participate
in
these
groups
and
I
do
sort
of
like
the
work
of
open,
ssf,
coil,
open
ssf
but,
for
example,
I
have
peers
and
other
parts
of
the
organization
who
have
a
much
more
consumer,
focused
orientation
towards
the
things
that
the
open
ssf
does.
They
want
to
know
practical
things
about,
like
I,
have
a
question
about
salsa,
yeah
and
I'm
sure
they
can
participate
in
the
source
of
work
group.
A
But
what
I'm
driving
at
is
that
there
will
be
more
and
more
of
these
questions
and
more
and
more
things
we
will
say
we
have
a
distinct
interest
that
doesn't
fit
the
current
map.
That
comes
back
to
the
fact
that
we
have
a
role
where
we
consume
and
we
don't
have
necessarily
the
bandwidth
to
move
upstream
and
to
participate
in
that
way.
But
we
still
deserve
a
voice.
E
E
I
really
like
that
yeah,
what
about
adding
I'm
going
to
think
of
part
of
our
our
mission
also
is
to
bring
more
end
users
to
this
working
group
right.
We
we
need
I,
think
it's
important
that
we
get
some
other
verticals
represented
here,
be
great
to
have
someone
from
public
sector
from
Healthcare
from
Telco,
not
and
not
the
dev
side
of
Telco,
but
the
consumption
side
of
Telco.
A
B
Yeah
we
do
have
to
be
careful
with
EU,
because
people
don't
think
what
you
have
to
be
in
the
European
Union.
All
the
Brits
table
flipped
their
way
up
foreign,
so
I
think
that's
that's.
The
next
place
to
go
is
okay.
That's
one
goal
of
the
working
group.
What
are
some
of
the
other
end
goals
of
the
working
group.
E
E
E
A
Yeah
we
want
as
as
as
varied
a
cross-section
as
possible,
and
we
want
to
be
able
to
have
the
mechanism
of
the
the
developed
muscle
to
smoothly
escalate
particular
concerns.
So
if
somebody
comes
to
us
and
says
we
have
a
problem
in
healthcare
with
X,
Y
and
Z,
we
want
to
be
able
to
switch
more
than
to
the
group,
so
they
can
participate
in
or
be
able
to
escalate
attack
and
governing
board
quickly.
E
C
E
B
Was
okay?
Those
are
two
good
goals
so
bringing
bringing
more
end
users
and
their
perspectives
into
the
working
group
to
Ensure
ensuring
representation
from
as
many
Industries
as
possible.
For
instance,
we
will
need
the
input
from
highly
regulated
Industries
and
the
public
sector,
which
we
don't
have
represented
whatsoever
again.
We.
E
E
B
B
No,
that's
an
excellent
addition.
Thank
you
and
then
the
other
goal
we
have
right
now
is
ensure
end
user
representation
in
Open,
ssf
Leadership,
both
Tech
and
the
governing
board.
Is
there
another
goal
we
want
to
add
for
now,
keeping
in
mind,
we
can
always
modify
in
the
future.
What
do
we
want
to
accomplish
here.