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From YouTube: Audit Committee - June 9, 2023
Description
Audit Committee
Meeting #: 2
Date: Friday, June 09, 2023
Time: 10 am
Location: Andrew S. Haydon Hall, 110 Laurier Avenue West, and by electronic participation
Agenda: https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=bacd289b-d7a6-4903-98d5-7837cd52274c&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English
A
All
right
good
morning,
everyone
bonjour
too
welcome
to
this
morning's
audit
committee
meeting,
we'll
have
a
joint
audit
committee
Transit
board
meeting
later
today
at
1
pm
for
this
morning's
meeting,
we'll
run
through
our
regular
business
and
deal
with
items
on
the
agenda.
Today.
First
item
will
be
the
2022
city
of
Ottawa
Consolidated
financial
statements,
we'll
have
a
presentation
from
acting
City
Treasurer
Cyril
Rogers
and
Deputy
Treasurer
Isabelle
Jasmine,
along
with
Auditors
from
Ernst
Young.
A
The
presentation
should
take
about
10
minutes
following
that.
We'll
have
questions
from
committee
members.
The
second
item
will
be
the
2022
sinking
fund
financial
statements
draft
report.
There
will
be
no
presentations
for
this
one.
We
can
take
questions,
though,
if
you
have
any
following
that.
Our
third
item
will
be
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
2022
report
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
Our
auditor
general
Natalie
guzan
has
a
10-minute
presentation
following
the
presentation
committee
members
can
ask
questions
to
the
auditor
general.
A
If
there
are
other
members
of
council
present,
you
may
ask
questions
of
the
auditor
general
following
committee
members.
We
will
then
take
questions
for
the
acting
city
manager.
Our
fourth
agenda
item
is
the
office
of
the
auditor
General's
2022
annual
report.
Ag
Natalie
guzan
will
deliver
another
presentation
around
five
to
ten
minutes
and
then
she
will
take
questions
from
committee
members
and
following
that
questions
from
any
other
council
members.
A
Our
last
agenda
item
will
be
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
semi-annual
report
on
follow-up
procedures.
Deputy
auditor
general
Joanne
gorenstein
will
deliver
a
five
to
ten
minute
presentation.
At
the
conclusion
of
the
presentation.
The
oag
will
take
questions
from
committee
members,
followed
by
questions
from
other
members
of
council.
A
Just
note
with
this
one.
Any
questions
related
to
items
that
have
been
dealt
with
in
camera,
namely
the
cyber
security
investigation,
would
require
us
to
go
in
camera
and
we
would
deal
with
that
one
last
all
right.
So
that's
the
plan
for
the
day
before
we
proceed,
I'll
ask
the
committee
coordinator
to
do
a
roll
call
of
all
members
and
I've
received
no
regret
regrets.
As
of
this
moment,.
C
D
D
A
Chair,
thank
you
very
much.
So
we
have
Declarations
of
Interest.
Are
there
any
Declarations
of
Interest
all
right
confirmation
of
minutes?
So
the
minutes
from
minutes
one
from
February,
17th
2023
meeting?
Are
these
minutes
confirmed.
A
Confirmed
thank
you.
Communications
letter
of
representation,
audit
of
the
2022
year-end
Consolidated
financial
statements.
This
was
received.
This
will
be
received
for
information.
Are
there
any
questions
on
that,
though?
That's
a
standard
letter
that
has
to
be
sent
out?
No
is
this
item
received.
A
Okay,
as
mentioned
most
of
the
items,
will
be
held
for
presentations,
as
you
could
tell
from
my
description
of
them,
but
not
the
sinking
fund
item
5.2,
there's
no
presentation
and
there
are
no
delegations.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
on
that?
It's
a
very
interesting
fun!
D
I
think
it's
a
quick
question.
Okay,.
D
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
No
one
of
the
questions
I
get
from
residents.
All
the
time
is
about
our
debt
level
and
the
sinking
fund
is
related
to
sustaining
it,
so
that
we
can.
We
can
pay
it
down
so
I
I
just
would
like
to
have
a
layman's
term
of
of
how
we're
controlling
our
debt
levels
with
our
sinking
fund,
because
I
I
always
get
concerned
about
that.
Thank
you.
F
If
I
may
chair,
so
the
sinking
fund
is
regular,
is
the
requirement
of
the
municipal
act
we
need
to
put
it
aside,
make
sure
we
meet
all
our
debt
requirements
for
the
future
and,
as
you
can
see
through
the
financial
statements
and
I
I
likely
do
need
to
explain
it
is
we
are
in
a
positive
position.
So
that
means
that
we
have
enough
in
Investments
and
in
our
thinking
fund,
compared
to
the
Actuarial
estimates
of
the
liabilities
going
forward
in
excess
of
those
liabilities.
F
D
A
Thank
you
that
was
quick
okay,
so
then
we
won't
hold
it
then,
and
so
we
just
want
to
carry
this
item.
Then,
is
this
item
carried
married
carried
great?
Thank
you.
A
F
You
chair,
so
my
name
is
Isabel
Jasmine
I'm,
the
deputy
city,
treasurer
of
corporate
finance,
for
the
city
of
Ottawa
and
will
present
the
financial
statements
for
the
year
ended:
December,
31st
2022..
We
also
have
Ernst
young
with
us
today:
meeta
Myers,
the
ey
associate
partner
responsible
for
this
audit
and
the
senior
audit
manager
Lisa
Godin.
They
are
here
to
present
the
results
of
the
audit
after
I've
made
my
presentation
next
slide.
F
So
we
are
reporting
a
surplus
for
the
year
end
of
December
31st
2022
of
1.116
billion,
which
is
different
than
the
34.7
million
deficit
reported
at
the
end
of
2022
for
Budget
purposes.
Financial
statements
are
reported
based
on
Canadian
public
sector
accrual
Accounting
Standards,
whereas
the
budget
is
reported
on
a
modified
Cash
basis.
F
Transfers
of
53
million
contributed
tangible
Capital
assets
of
63
million
in
development
charges
of
40
million
total
expenses
for
2022
increased
by
404
million.
There
were
increased
expenses
primarily
related
to
Social
and
Family
Services,
106
million
social
housing.
103
million,
as
well
as
additional
expenses
for
protection
services,
45
million
transit
services,
45
million
and
environmental
services,
34.
F
Net
debt
is
the
difference
between
our
financial
assets
and
our
total
liabilities.
It
is
a
measure
of
the
future
revenues
required
to
pay
for
past
transactions.
Net
debt
at
the
end
of
2022
was
2.75
billion,
but
this
is
offset
by
non-financial
assets
of
21
billion,
which
is
primarily
made
up
of
our
tangible
Capital
assets.
F
The
netbook
value
of
tangible
Capital
assets
increased
by
1.3
billion
during
2022,
and
this
reflects
the
increased
investment
in
capital
made
by
the
city,
mainly
for
stage
two
of
lrts,
just
710
million
Water
and
Wastewater
infrastructure.
456
million
and
Roads
related
projects,
182
million
a
substantial
portion
of
this
capital.
Investment
includes
assets,
contributed
from
developers
to
the
city
of
469
million.
The
difference
between
net
debt
and
non-financial
assets
is
the
accumulated
Surplus,
which
represents
all
of
the
accumulated
surpluses
of
the
city
since
its
Inception.
F
F
Accounts
receivable
increase
primarily
due
to
cost
recoveries
for
policing
due
to
two
large
downtown
demonstrations,
as
well
as
covid-19,
related
funding
for
Transit,
safe
restart
and
for
vaccine
distribution.
Investment
in
government
business
Enterprise
represents
the
net
assets
of
hydro
Ottawa,
which
we
report
on
our
financial
statements
on
an
equity
basis.
The
city
received
dividends
from
a
hydro
Ottawa
in
the
amount
of
23.7
million
in
2022
related
to
results
from
Hydro
ottawa's
2021
operations.
F
F
Accounts
payable
and
accrued
liabilities
has
increased
by
195
million,
primarily
due
to
a
short-term
promissory
note
that
was
issued
in
2022
and
was
due
to
mature
in
2023,
as
well
as
for
child
care,
where
the
2022
revised
funding
was
received
late
in
the
year,
resulting
in
amounts
not
yet
paid
to
providers
deferred
revenue
has
increased
by
135
million,
primarily
due
to
development
charge,
revenue
and
government
funding
that
was
received,
but
not
yet
spent
development
charge.
Receipts
are
recorded
as
deferred
revenue
until
the
fiscal
year.
F
F
Next
slide,
employee
future
benefits
increase
minimally.
This
year,
these
liabilities
represent
benefits,
earned
but
not
payable
until
future
years.
The
amounts
payable
in
the
current
year
is
budgeted
for
each
year
and
changes
in
future
liabilities
are
primarily
because
of
changes
in
Actuarial
assumptions
and
legislation.
F
This
future
liability
is
an
estimation
and
may
or
may
not
reflect
the
actual
amounts
that
could
be
paid
in
the
future.
The
most
significant
changes
include
post
retirement
and
post-employment
benefits
increased
by
19
million,
based
on
the
Actuarial
Consultants
estimation
of
post-retirement
and
post-employment
benefits.
F
F
F
Our
net
long-term
debt
increased
reflecting
the
issuance
of
309
million
of
new
debt
issues
and
Loans,
which
is
offset
by
137
million
of
debt
principal
repayments
made
during
2022.
principal
and
interest
payments
are
restricted
in
two
ways.
Council
has
established
a
specific
Target
for
debt
whereby
principal
and
interest
payments
for
tax
and
rate
supported
debt
are
not
to
exceed
a
combined
Target
of
8.5
percent
of
the
city's
own
source
Revenue
in
2022,
this
percentage
was
5
percent.
F
The
provincial
measure
looks
at
the
cost
of
debt
issued
including
mortgages
as
a
percentage
of
own
source
revenues,
and
that
limit
is
25
in
2022.
This
measure
is
calculated
at
8.4
percent.
Which
is
far
below
the
provincial
limit
compared
to
other
large
municipalities.
Ottawa
continues
to
have
one
of
the
lowest
total
debt
per
capita.
F
The
overall
value
of
the
assets
based
on
cost
increased
by
1.27
billion
in
2022,
the
most
significant
construction
projects
contributing
to
the
increase
are
710
million
for
light
rail
stage,
2,
which
is
reported
in
assets
under
construction,
182
million
for
roads,
infrastructure
and
456
million
for
water
and
wastewater
infrastructure,
as
you
can
see
from
the
chart,
Water
and
Wastewater
infrastructure
makes
up
29
of
the
total
tangible,
Capital
asset
Netbook
value.
As
mentioned
the
LRT
stage,
2
Capital
costs,
Capital
asset
costs
are
still
accumulating
within
the
assets
under
construction
category.
F
G
Thank
you
Isabel
and
good
morning.
Everyone
so
I'll
just
give
a
minute
to
put
our
presentation.
Thank
you.
So,
on
slide
one,
we
present
here
the
executive
summary
of
our
audit
results
of
the
Consolidated
financial
statements
for
the
city
of
Ottawa.
At
this
stage,
the
audit
is
substantially
complete
and
we
expect
to
issue
unmodified
opinion
on
the
Consolidated
financial
statements.
G
Our
scope
remained
as
consistent
with
the
plan
communicated
in
February
2023
and
there
are
pending
a
few
open
items
that
are
that
are
regular
at
this
stage
of
the
audit,
which
is
obtaining
the
signed
letter
of
representation
upon
the
approval
of
the
financial
statements
which
is
currently
scheduled
for
June
14th.
We
also
perform
our
final
conclusion:
procedures
related
to
the
subsequent
events
obtaining
updated
legal
letters
and
other
procedures
on
the
next
slide.
We
go
through
our
areas
of
audit
emphasis
and
significant
risks.
G
So
the
first
item
on
page
two
is
covid-19
related
impacts,
which
we
continue
to
assess
and
review
management
assessments
and
agreements
related
agreements
that
the
city
receives
and
based
on
the
procedures
performed
to
date.
We
did
not
identify
any
issues
on
the
next
page.
We
and
our
next
area
of
emphasis
is
the
revenue
recognition
where
we
perform
substantive
procedures,
specifically
around
taxation
government
transfers,
development
charges
contributed
assets
and
fees
and
users
and
user
charges
based
on
the
procedures
performed.
G
On
the
statement
of
financial
position,
the
next
area
of
emphasis
contingent
liabilities
are
where
we
review
and
confirm
the
status
of
the
reserve
amounts
based
on
the
assessment
on
the
likelihood
of
the
payment
of
the
outstanding
legal
claims,
both
in-house
and
confirmations
from
external
Council,
as
well
as
part
of
our
subsequent
event
procedures.
We
continue
to
assess
and
monitor
various
accruals
up
to
the
date
of
the
audit
report,
which
is
currently
scheduled,
June
14th
on
the
next
area
of
emphasis
and
Investments.
G
G
The
last
couple
of
areas
of
audit
emphasis
and
significant
risk
is
tcas,
sub-tangible
capital
assets
again.
Similarly,
we
hear
we
on
the
sample
basis.
We
perform
procedures
over
additions,
disposals
amortization
of
the,
as
well
as
reviewing
of
the
significant
agreements,
such
as
a
light
rail
Transit
projects,
and
also
look
at
the
related
commitments
both
for
stage
one
and
stage
two.
G
As
part
of
our
work.
We
know
that
there
is
a
carry
forward
over
statement
of
tangible
Capital
assets
of
10.57
million
this
year,
which,
as
a
result
of
the
prior
previous
periods
of
delayed
amortization
for
those
related
assets,
this
error,
given
as
it's
carried
forward
year
over
year,
the
net
impact
on
is
the
understatement
of
0.67
million.
G
That
impacts
the
2022
annual
Surplus
this
year
and
the
last
area
is
the
commitments
where,
as
I
mentioned,
we
perform
substantive
procedures
over
both
existence
and
the
completeness
in
various
of
various
commitments,
on
a
sample
basis,
as
they're
disclosed
on
the
financial
statements
and
based
on
the
procedures
performed.
We
did
not
identify
any
issues
on
page
six
as
part
of
our
audit
we
do
perform,
we
do
have.
We
do
perform
procedures
as
they
relate
to
the
presumed
risk
of
management
override
and
based
on
the
procedures
performed
where
we
use
our
data
analytics
tools.
G
The
last
item
is
the
disclosure
difference
that
we
present
here,
it's
related
to
the
it's
only
really.
It
only
pertains
to
the
disclosures
on
the
tangible
Capital
assets,
specifically
between
the
transfers
of
the
completed
projects
to
their
related
category
of
the
couple
assets
and
assets
under
construction.
G
This
misstatement
does
not
impact
the
amounts,
as
I
mentioned,
on
this
statement
of
financial
positions
of
the
financial
statements
with
this
I
would
like
to
thank
cities,
Finance
team,
of
with
a
timely
provision
of
all
the
documents
and
completion,
helping
us
to
complete
this
audit
in
time
and
I
would
conclude
my
presentation.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
both
those
presentations.
All
right
committee
members,
luck
to
you
for
questions
you
may
have
and
non-committee
members
members
of
council,
councilor,
Kavanaugh.
D
I
find
it
interesting
that,
in
terms
of
the
LRT
stage,
2
that
we're
counting
it
as
an
asset
when
it's
not
done,
how
do
we
do
that
because
I'm
watching
the
construction
very
closely
and
it's
you
know-
things
are
partially
built,
I
guess
in
the
other
end
of
town,
it's
a
little
bit
more
built.
For
example,
do
we
count
it
as
an
asset
like
when
a
station
is
finished
or
how
is
that
done.
F
Thank
you
for
the
question
so
chair.
The
LRT
stage.
2
project
is
recorded
under
asset
under
construction
category,
and
it
is
only
when
the
entire
and
it
we
can
look
at
it.
D
We
start
to
depreciate
it
okay,
so
right
now
under
the
LRT
that
pie
chart
that
LRT
section
is
stage
one
correct
and
and
and
under
construction
is
all
of
stage
two.
It's
cost
to
date,
yeah
and-
and
some
of
that
will
leave
that
section
like,
for
example,
the
Trillium
line
is
going
to
open
before
the
others,
so
so
you'll
be
moving
that
over
yeah.
D
Another
question
is
about
Wastewater
and
water
infrastructure
I'm,
seeing
a
lot
of
that
construction
happening.
How
do
we
account
for
our
well?
We
still
need
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done.
We
have
a
lot
of
older
pipes
and
infrastructure
in
our
in
our
city
and
how
do
we
account
for
our
our
deficit
of
having
to
redo
that
infrastructure.
F
So,
on
an
accrual
basis,
we
only
recognize
the
historical
cost
of
the
asset,
and
then
we
depreciate
it
over
time.
That's
why
I
was
saying:
there's
a
difference
between
how
we
look
at
a
surplus
from
an
accounting
perspective
versus
a
budget
perspective
in
the
budget.
We
put
enough
money
aside
to
replace
those
assets,
so
it's
always
much
higher
in
terms
of
what
we're
expending
on
a
capital
side,
then
what
we
actually
depreciating,
because
on
the
on
the
financial
statements,
we're
depreciating
at
the
Historical
historical
costs.
D
That's
something
that
concerns
me,
because
obviously
our
our
infrastructure
is
aging
and
and
obviously
waste
water
and
water
is,
is
crucial.
Thank
you.
E
F
Yeah,
so
the
difference
between
the
two,
the
the
province
has
the
25
limit.
The
25
limit
includes
all
development
charge
and
gas
tax
debt
in
our
number
we're
only
looking
for
so
the
7.5
percent
we're
only
looking
at
tax
debt
and
then
the
8.5
for
rate
debt
com.
Sorry
rate
debt
is
15
combined,
it's
8.5
percent,
but
we
don't
include
development
charging
gas
tax
set
in
those
calculations.
F
A
I,
don't
see
any
other
questions.
I
just
have
a
question
regarding
the
misstatements
I'm,
just
wondering
what
what
Isabelle?
If
you
have
a
comment
on
that
you
know
it
there's
a
lot
of
language
in
there
to
say
that
things
are
reasonable.
You
know
that
they're
they
didn't
have
any
concerns,
but
I
wondered
if
you
wanted
to
make
a
comment
on
those
misstatements.
F
And
I
might
ask
you:
why
did
you
also
talk
about
materiality,
so
we
do
when
we
close
the
books
on
December
31st
2022.
We
do
it
with
the
information
that
we
have
available
at
that
point
in
time,
and
so
one
of
the
variances
was
the
the
claims
for
the
police
events
that
happened
last
year.
We
didn't
have
any
confirmation
from
the
province
in
terms
of
how
much
we
would
be
reimbursed
for
that,
and
so
we
put
in
an
accrual
which
was
an
estimate
at
that
point
in
time.
F
Then
we
finally
got
a
letter
later
and
the
Auditors
had
arrived
by
that
time,
so
they
had
more
information
than
we
did
when
we
closed
it,
but
it
was
8
million
and
on
the
grand
scheme
of
things
we
will
eventually
record
it,
but
we're
just
recording
it
in
a
different
year.
So
it's
more
of
a
timing.
Difference
than
anything
else
same
with
the
depreciation
yeah.
G
And
just
to
comment
if
I
may
Madam
chair
just
because
from
the
materiality
perspective
we
do
have
overall
materiality
so,
which
is
more
so,
which
is
114
million,
but
at
a
lower
threshold
is
where
we
do
the
testing
they're
much
lower
at
the
level
of
the
account
level
and
financial
statement
align
item
level.
So
we
do
report
those
that
are
above
those
thresholds.
So
in
this
difference
it
was
so
from
that
perspective.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
for
that.
I
mean
it's
good
for
us
to
see
that,
because
there
are
seems
to
me,
whenever
I've
looked
at
audit
audited
statements
that
these
things
are
explainable,
so
that,
but
when
you
put
it
in
a
document
that
says
you
know,
this
is
a
misstatement
and
it
hasn't
been
corrected.
It
seems
much
more
worse
than
it
actually
is
so
I
just
thought
we'd
like
to
get
that
clarified.
I,
don't
see
any
other
questions.
Thank
you
for
that.
A
The
report
recommendation
is
that
the
audit
committee
recommend
Council
approved
the
2022
city
of
Ottawa
Consolidated
financial
statements.
Is
this
item
carried
carried
Carrie?
Thank
you
for
that.
We
dealt
with
the
sinking
fund
financial
statement.
Auditor
general.
It's
been
waiting
patiently
Office
of
the
auditor
general
2022
report
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
H
H
H
H
I
H
H
H
Of
the
auditor
general
has
administered
the
city's
fraud
and
waste
program.
The
primary
objective
of
this
program
is
to
provide
a
means
to
employees,
as
well
as
the
public
to
confidentially
and
anonymously
report
activities
or
conducts
related
to
or
involving
City
Personnel
Resources
operations
or
vendors,
for
which
they
suspect
instances
of
fraud
or
waste.
H
When
allegations
are
received
through
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
My
office
first
assesses
the
allegations
of
merits
and
determines
whether
or
not
ourselves
or
management
is
best
suited
to
complete
an
investigation
management
investigates
those
reports
that
we
provide
to
them
and
they
report
back
to
us
the
outcomes
of
their
investigation,
as
well
as
any
remedial
action
to
be
taken
or
related
discipline.
H
The
oeg
provides
an
independent
oversight
of
Management's
investigations
as
well
as
assesses
the
adequacy
of
future
mitigation
measures
and
the
sufficiency
of
Management's
corrective
actions
to
diminish
or
prevent
future
risks.
The
results
of
our
work
are
aggregated
in
this
annual
report
for
allegations
investigated
and
substantiated
by
our
office.
We
will
either
issue
a
management
letter
or
there
will
be
an
investigation
report
that
is
produced
and
presented
to
committee
and
Council.
H
Just
to
give
you
a
little
bit,
I
guess
some
examples
of
what
would
constitute
fraud
or
waste
examples
of
fraud
could
include
forgery,
misappropriation
of
assets
or
funds,
otherwise
known
as
theft
or
fraudulent
expense
claims.
Examples
of
waste
could
include
inefficient
procedures
or
management
of
resources,
unnecessary
spending
or
foregone
revenues.
Questions.
H
We
received
a
total
of
1
397
cases
last
year
in
comparison
to
575
in
the
prior
year.
210
reports
were
unique
in
nature,
and
1187
reports
were
what
we
refer
to
as
similar
in
nature,
while
the
percentage
of
unique
reports
received
is
down
by
approximately
30
percent.
The
percentage
of
reports
that
we
received,
which
are
similar
in
nature,
were
significantly
higher.
In
2022.,
total
cases
received
increased
by
143
percent.
H
The
majority
of
similar
in
nature
reports
received
in
2022
are
consistent
with
allegations
that
we
investigated
in
2021
and
2022
linked
to
violations
of
the
Ontario
Highway
Traffic
act
by
OC
transfo
bus
operators.
These
allegations
resulted
in
a
report
that
was
issued
and
presented
to
audit
committee
last
June.
H
Since
our
report,
we
continue
to
receive
roughly
five
to
ten
cases
per
day
linked
to
OC
Transfer
bus
operator
compliance
issues,
we've
communicated
to
management
periodically
on
these
cases
and
have
been
working
with
management
to
ensure
steps
are
taken
to
address
address
the
very
important
issues
that
are
identified
at
the
end
of
this
presentation.
I
will
let
management
provide
additional
details
as
to
what
steps
they
haven't
been
taking,
since
we
have
issued
our
report.
H
H
I
believe
this
is
the
most
prudent
use
of
taxpayer
dollars,
while
still
addressing
key
concerns
raised
to
this
very
important
mechanism
and
I
just
really
really
want
to
emphasize
the
importance
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and
I.
Don't
want
this
being
seen
as
us,
discouraging
anybody
coming
forward.
We
we
want
to
encourage
those
that
see
instances
in
fraud
and
waste
to
come
forward
and
Report.
Those
to
our
office
I,
however,
believe
there
are
better
ways
to
report
recurring
issues
than
to
inundate
our
office.
With
these
particular
cases
simpler.
H
This
slide
depicts
the
results
of
all
reports
received
in
2022.
Our
investigation
results
are
categorized
into
five
groups,
but
you
can
clearly
see
on
the
slide.
Substantiated
reports
are
allegations
that
are
found
to
be
accurate
through
the
course
of
an
investigation
and
constitute
fraud
or
waste
accurate,
but
compliant
are
allegations
found
to
be
accurate
through
the
course
of
an
investigation,
but
do
not
constitute
fraud
or
waste
inaccurate
cases
or,
as
the
name
would
suggest,
allegations
that
are
proven
through
the
course
of
an
investigation
to
be
inaccurate.
H
Allegations
that
are
classified
as
not
applicable
are
not
applicable
under
the
city's
fraud
and
waste
program
and,
lastly,
allegations
classified
as
having
insufficient
information
are
either
unclear
or
lack
information
for
us
to
investigate.
With
these
types
of
cases,
we
always
go
back
to
the
reporter
and
seek
additional
information
Unfortunately.
They
may
not
respond
back
to
us
or
they
may
not
have
additional
information
to
share
with
us
to
allow
us
to
move
forward
with
the
particular
information
in
case
during
2022.
We
closed
a
total
of
212
reports,
of
which
90
were
investigated.
H
H
We
are
always
looking
to
continuously
improve
the
administration
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
This
year,
my
team
will
be
working
with
the
city
manager's
office
as
they
own
the
fraud
and
waste
program.
We
will
be
reviewing
the
policy
for
potential
improvements,
as
well
as
reviewing
our
internal
processes
for
potential
efficiencies.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Natalie
I
indicate
at
the
beginning
that
staff
may
be
able
to
make
a
comment
now
or
do
you
want
to
take
your
questions
first
and
then
have
a
staff
comment.
I'd.
K
Thank
you
chair.
We
have
taken
all
of
the
cases
that
the
auditor
General's
office
has
shared
with
us
in
terms
of
the
non-unique
one.
So
the
1187
and
I'm
going
to
ask
my
colleague,
Mrs
amokar,
to
speak
to
the
review
that
they've
done
as
well
as
the
additional
processes
they
put
in
place,
as
well
as
the
controls.
L
L
J
J
This
way
we
will
examine
all
of
the
procedures
with
each
and
single
operator.
This
will
be
a
individual
training.
We
will
review
the
best
practices
because,
maybe
with
time
some
of
the
practices
changed,
we
will
need
a
little
bit
of
time,
because
every
single
operator
will
have
an
individual
training.
It
will
be
a
two
to
three
hour
refresher.
Afterwards,
we
also
have
a
follow-up
plan.
J
A
Very
much
for
that
all
right,
we'll
have
to
take
questions.
Son,
counselor,
Carr,
thank.
M
You
very
much,
and
and
thank
you
to
the
auditor
general
for
the
presentation
in
in
listening
to
you
speak
this
morning
and
speaking
about
the
use
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
That's
obviously
a
a
big
concern.
M
I
I
think
that
all
of
my
colleagues
around
this
table
and
the
and
City
councilors
would
agree
that
the
auditor
general
the
resources
there
are
so
critical
to
the
city
and
I'm
wondering
if
maybe
perhaps
this
is
a
question
for
the
city
manager,
I'm
wondering
if
you
could
speak
to
anybody,
hearing
that
it's
67
63
of
employees
who
are
the
ones
accessing
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline,
wondering
if
you
could
speak
to
any
education,
Outreach
efforts
that
are
that
exist
within
the
city
to
communicate
to
employees
about
other
venues
to
air
these
complaints,
whether
it
be
through
informal
conflict
management
or
discussions
with
their
manager.
M
Any
of
that
work
underway
so
that
we
can
divert
the
resources
away
from
overuse
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
So
and
I'll
have
another
question
after
two.
Please.
K
Yeah,
thank
you
chair
for
the
question.
We
used
every
opportunity
that
we
can,
in
terms
of
Education,
with
respect
to
reporting
issues
up,
but
it
is
important
in
terms
of
Fraud
and
ways
to
report
those
through
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
K
If
it's
something
of
a
usual
business
item,
they
can
certainly
bring
it
up
to
their
supervisor,
which
can
flow
through
to
management
and
be
dealt
with
in
that
manner.
There's
education
process
and
information
on
the
city's
website
internally,
as
well
as
externally,
with
respect
to
those
Avenues
and
we
educate
typically
every
year
with
respect
to
that.
M
Yeah
just
to
follow
I
guess
I
guess.
My
concern
is
when
we
see
that
there
was
1187
complaints
about
a
similar
issue
and
we
hear
that
it's
63
percent
of
employees
like
and
it's
taking
the
auditor
general
so
many
days
like.
Are
there
any
efforts
specifically
on
employees,
not
using
that
or
having
a
better
understanding
of
of
when
to
report?
M
And
when
not
or
maybe
that's
a
question
for
the
the
auditor
general
about
about
the
Thematic
nature
of
some
of
these
complaints
and
whether
through
actually
substantiated,
whether
they
should
actually
be
going
there
or
whether
they
should
be
going
somewhere
else.
H
H
Is
there
as
an
anonymous
and
confidential
tool,
so
you
may
have
employees
that,
while
there
are
other
mechanisms
where
they
can
report,
these
instances
of
fraud
or
waste
do
not
feel
comfortable
doing
so,
and
so
this
mechanism
gives
them
the
ability
to
do
so,
confidentially
and
anonymously,
and
so
we
we
wouldn't
necessarily
want
to
detract
from
that,
as
I
mentioned
on.
One
of
our
slides
is
that
continuous
improvement
with
regards
to
the
fraud
and
waste
program
and
and
I'll
be
working
with
the
city
manager's
office
in
means
of
educating
so
emphasizing
other
elements.
H
Other
mechanisms
where
you
can
bring
things
forward,
but
I
I
do,
however,
have
to
say
a
lot
of
the
times.
It's
also
looking
at
the
culture
of
a
particular
department
or
a
particular
team,
or
the
tone
at
the
top
as
to
whether
or
not
people
feel
comfortable
bringing
issues
to
their
supervisors.
To
their
managers,
so
you
will
definitely
see
instances
where
we'll
get
cases
that
are
are
definitely
probably
better
dealt
through
just
a
general
conversation
with
their
supervisor.
H
But
those
aren't
occurring
so
I
think
the
bigger
question
is,
why
aren't
aren't
they
occurring,
but
we
do
not
want
to
turn
people
away
because
we
do
have
the
ability
to
help
and
to
rectify
these
particular
situations.
So
one
of
it's
an
education
piece
that
I
think
we
need
to
continue
to
work
on
with
the
city,
manager's
office
and
the
second
piece
is
I.
Think
we're
always
going
to
have
these
instances
because
it's
a
safe
place
for
people
to
report.
These
issues.
M
M
I
just
have
a
quick
follow-up
question
in
reading
the
the
Fuller
documentation,
the
report
that
came
I
was
struck
by
by
the
increase
in
2021
on
reporting
of
unauthorized
use
or
misuse
of
city
property
and
the
violation
of
laws,
regulations,
policies
and
procedures
which
was
significantly
higher,
and
we
saw
a
downturn
in
in
2022
with
any
of
this,
perhaps
due
to
to
the
pandemic
and
people
working
at
home
and
perhaps
like,
were
there
any
reasons
why
there
was
such
a
spike.
M
In
that
ear
it
seems
it
was
quite
high
that
year
was
particularly
94
instances
of
unauthorized
use
or
misuse
of
city
property,
information
or
time
I
wondered
if
that
was.
You
know,
working
at
home,
not
logging
in
your
hours
or
any
any
Trend.
You
saw
in
that
year.
That
would
have
explained
that
Spike.
H
It's
a
very
good
question,
a
question
that
I
was
asked
this
time
last
year,
when
we
were
reported
on
2021
results,
I
can
only
speculate,
and
last
year,
I
speculated
that
there
was
a
potential
that
the
pandemic
had
an
impact
on
overall
increase
in
cases
and,
obviously
you
know
the
types
of
cases
that
that
did
occur,
but
again
it
would
be
purely
speculational
on
my
part,
if
I
were
to
I,
if
I
were
to
State
anything
I
wouldn't
be
able
to
concretely
State
the.
Why.
D
Thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
daughter
to
General,
for
the
report
appreciate
it
very
much
I
always
wonder
about,
and
I
was
going
to
ask
the
same
question,
but
obviously
it's
kind
of
the
elephant
in
the
room
about
you
know
the
effect
of
the
pandemic,
so
it
had
to
be
asked
but
I
want
to
com
know
what
the
comparison
is
to
other
municipalities
of
you
know.
Are
they
seeing
the
same
kind
of
trend?
They
have
this
feature
of
our
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
H
I
think
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
mixed
bag,
counselors
to
what
other
municipalities
are
seeing.
Some
are
actually
very
new
with
regards
to
establishing
their
fraud
and
waste
hotlines.
Some
do
not
allow
members
of
the
public
to
report
instances,
so
it's
only
employees.
So
it's
really
difficult
to
use
as
a
a
metric
of
comparison,
I
I
do
think
everybody
has
continued
to
see
a
little
bit
of
an
uptick.
H
The
more
people
know
about
the
tool
and
the
mechanism,
the
more
it
gets
used
and
I
I
do
think
that
the
more
people
have
issues
that
aren't
reported
internally.
The
more
likely
these
types
of
tools
are
are
being
leveraged,
so
I
guess
to
answer
your
question
is
some:
are
some
some
necessarily
aren't
mature
enough
their
their
mechanism?
Their
tools
aren't
and
their
programs
aren't
mature
enough.
Yet
to
really
be
able
to
compare
to.
D
From
your
comments,
are
you
saying
bulk
of
the
complaints
are
related
to
OC
Transpo
is
that
is
that
what
I'm
hearing.
H
They
are
coming
through
anonymously,
so
I'm
unable
to
state
with
regards
and
I
I.
Do
always
add
this
caveat,
even
if
I
did
know,
I,
unfortunately,
wouldn't
be
able
to
answer,
because
that
that
is
the
premise
behind
the
hotline
is
to
ensure
that
individuals
coming
forward
are
Anonymous
from
that
perspective.
H
But
when,
when
you
do
bring
a
report
through
especially
through
our
integrity
accounts
portal,
as
which
is
a
third
party
provider
that
administers
the
hotline
for
us,
there's
an
option
to
be
fully
Anonymous
and
the
reports
that
are
coming
through
are
coming
through
fully
anonymously.
So
I
can't
even
identify
whether
it's
an
employer
or
a
member
of
the
public
yeah.
H
Much
that's
just
in
general
for
all
all
cases,
so
when
somebody
does
identify
themselves
as
an
either
an
employer
or
a
member
of
the
public
we
track.
Those
so
of
those
that
we
are
able
to
identify
is
60
and
bear
with
me.
I,
don't
have
my
numbers
in
front
of
me
now
it
was
I.
Think
60
63
is
employs
in
37.
Is
members
of
the
public.
D
Oh,
it's
yeah,
it's
I
mean
as
a
counselor's
office,
I
mean
probably
what
you're
hearing
is
what
we're
hearing,
because
all
people
call
counselors
offices
with
complaints,
and
sometimes
we
direct
them
to
the
fraudible
hotline
if
they
feel
that
it
has
to
be
investigated
and
I
think
it
would
be
a
good
idea
if
we
had
some
direction
to
advise
people,
because
we
don't
want
you
know
we
want
things
to
be
done
properly.
So
is
there
any
guidelines?
D
We
should
give
people
in
terms
of
if
they
have
complaints,
because
if
they're
going
to
go
that
direction
so
that
it's
substantial,
because
oftentimes
I
mean
and
not
that
I'm
trying
to
discourage
people,
but
it
to
make
it
fruitful
if
they
are,
if
they've
got
a
real
concern
that
they
should
have
a
checklist
because
sometimes
it's
vague
and
they
don't
have
all
of
the
information.
And
then
it's
not
going
to
go
anywhere,
but
anyway,
I
suspect
that
our
our
calls
reflect
your
calls,
at
least
on
the
residence
side.
D
We
don't
see
the
employee's
side
hopefully,
and
we
shouldn't
so
I
just
wanted
to
to
get
an
idea
of
how
we
can
work
together.
On
that,
so
that
you
don't
get
the
the
repetition
as
much
just.
A
On
that
can
I
just
say:
I'm,
not
sure
if
also
the
city,
clerk
or
city
manager
wanted
to
answer
that
as
well
in
terms
of
guidance
to
counselors.
But
if
there
is
going
to
be
a
change
now,
where
some
of
them
you're
going
to
say
we're
not
going
to
deal
with
I
wonder
how
what
guidance
we
would
have
as
well.
Where
do
they
go
with
a
situation
like
that?
So
thank
you
for
that
question.
So,
I'm
not
sure
if
we
want
two
answers.
H
So
I'll
be
happy
to
start
and
then,
if,
when
you
would
like
to
add
one
of
the
things
as
I
mentioned
would
be
working
with
the
city
manager's
office
and
continuing
to
raise
awareness
with
regards
to
this
tool
and
when
to
utilize
it,
and
so
obviously
we
already
have
different
other
I
guess
other
avenues,
other
complaint
lines
that
are
there
I
think
it's
identifying
those
when
appropriate,
so
I'd
be
more
than
happy
to
put
together
a
list
and
to
have
it
vetted
by
the
city
manager's
office
as
to
where
residents
should
be
directed
dependent
on
the
nature
of
their
complaint.
D
About
no
I
appreciate
that
very
much
I
think
it
needs
a
checklist,
because
you
know
it's
our
staff
that
take
calls
and
often
some
people
phone
first.
You
know
if
they're
you
know,
if
there's
something
immediate
and
it
would
be
good
to
just
have
them.
Is
there
a
checklist
of
questions?
They
can
ask
them
to
show
that
what
direction
it
should
go.
D
Sort
of
like
a
flowchart,
because
I
could
see
that
you
know
there's
repetition.
We
have
people
who
write
us
every
single
day
with
the
same
complaint
and
it's
unfortunate.
There
is
the
same
complaint
and
I'm
sorry,
but
it's
really
a
toasty
transpose.
Usually
you
know,
there's
other
things
as
well,
but
they're
repetitious
and
and
they
and
they
continue
to
contact
their
counselor
I'm
sure
other
counselor
officers
have
the
same
thing.
D
Obviously
we
want
to
be
the
best
and
we
want
to
have.
You
know,
use
this
as
a
way
to
fix
issues,
but
I
I
just
want
it
to
be
as
efficient
as
possible
so
that
they
go
the
right
direction
and
we're
not
wasting
your
time.
But
but
we
are
getting
answers
and
we're
trying
to
fix
those
issues
that
have
caused
this
person
to
be
so
upset.
They
felt
they
had
to
go
that
direction
so
I
appreciate.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
counselor
Kavanaugh,
councilor,
Brown,
Vice,
chair
Brown.
Sorry
thank.
E
You
chair
question
for
Madame
ammo
Carr,
based
on
your
response
and
I
can
appreciate
you
and
your
team
putting
a
response
together
for
this
and
an
action
plan.
E
If
next
year
we
don't
see
a
reduction
in
the
volume
of
complaints
being
made
through
the
fraud
and
waste
or
you
know
in
the
appropriate
Avenue
will
you
be
reporting
back
to
Transit,
commissioner,
this
committee
with
I
guess
a
progress
update
on
how
well
you've
done,
and
if
there
are
outstanding
items
left,
will
you
be
bringing
forward
an
additional
plan
to
continue
to
address
the
issue.
L
Yeah,
thank
you
chair
for
the
question
for
sure
I
am
willing
to
bring
the
result
here
for
sure.
However,
this
is
not
new
for
me.
Listen
for
that.
We
have
a
lot
of
food
and
ways
regarding
the
bus
driver's
Behavior.
So
that's
why
we
have
put
in
place
a
lot
of
sensibilization,
but
because
I've
I
didn't
see
any
Improvement.
L
So
that's
why
I
took
the
decision
to
retrain
people
because
I
think
after
some
civilization
we
have
to
make
sure
that
they
are
they
are
properly
trained
and
after
that
unfortunately,
I
will
need
to
take
another
step.
That
step
will
be
a
little
bit
hard
for
sure,
but
I
want
to
to
reduce
or
eliminate
those
bad
behaviors,
absolutely
so
I'm
willing
to
bring
any
any
potential
kpis.
That
could
could
that
I
could
have
with
those
three
steps:
transablization
training
and
address
the
bad
situation.
N
Thank
you,
chair
yeah,
just
a
comment.
I
think
this
is,
you
know,
interesting
and
I
think
it
parallels
what
we're
seeing
in
our
offices
as
as
counselors
I
mean
I,
don't
have
a
huge
frame
of
reference,
because
I
started
in
the
midst
of
the
pandemic.
But
what
I
hear
from
colleagues
is
that
the
Outreach
from
residents
the
casework
the
volume
is
just
at
an
all-time
high
and
I
know
that
you
know
in
my
office
with
with
the
staff
that
I
have
it's
a
challenge
every
day.
N
So
I
just
think
it's
an
important
thing
for
anyone
who's
listening
to
be
aware
of
that
we
are
getting
sort
of
overwhelmed
by
casework,
and
sometimes
it
is
the
same
thing
over
and
over
and
and
people
aren't
satisfied
with
the
response.
And
of
course
you
know
that's
what
we're
here
for,
but
I
just
think.
It's
interesting
I
think
it
reflects
sort
of
the
temperature
of
the
community
right
now,
a
lot
of
high
volume,
High
Outreach
and
no
more
resources
to
address
that.
So
thank
you.
A
Thank
you
for
that
I
only
I
don't
have
any
other
question
or
people
with
their
hands
up.
My
question
was
just
in
terms
of
feedback
and
I'm
understanding
that
a
lot
of
this
is
anonymous
right,
but
I
just
wondered
what,
if
you
do
know
who
the
person
like
the
person
identifies
themselves,
do
you
actually
get
back
to
them
and
say
someone
is
looking
into
this?
What
is
that
process
I
mean
we
do
it
in
the
counselor's
office.
Obviously,
there's
always
a
feedback
loop,
but
what
about
how
you
handle
it.
H
Thank
you
chair
absolutely,
regardless
of
whether
we
know
the
individual
or
not.
If
they've
used
the
Integrity
accounts
portal,
we
acknowledge
receipt
of
the
reporter
complaint.
That's
come
forward.
We
then
respond
back
as
to
how
it's
being
addressed.
So,
for
example,
if
we've
decided
that
Management's
going
to
investigate
we
let
them
know
where
we
have
sent
their
complaint
to
and
roughly
the
time
it
takes
for
a
typical
case
to
get
reviewed.
Then,
when
we
receive
the
information
back
from
management,
we
review
it.
H
If
we're
satisfied
with
the
investigation
and
the
actions
to
be
taken,
we
then
let
them
know
that
an
investigation
is
taking
place
and
that
appropriate
action
has
been
taken
as
a
result
of
the
investigation,
and
so
we
try
to
keep
individuals
in
the
loop
if,
for
some
reason,
we've
we've
sent
the
case
to
to
management
or
we're
investigating
it
ourselves.
Frequently
we'll
go
back
to
the
reporter
asking
to
see
if
they
have
more
information,
sometimes
as
we
dive
into
an
issue.
H
H
It
might
take
sometimes
a
month
or
two
before
they
hear
from
us,
depending
on
the
steps
that
were
taken,
but
we
generally
always
have
a
mechanism
to
keep
that
line
of
communication
open
the
only
instance
where
that's
difficult
is
sometimes
somebody
can
call
the
hotline
anonymously
and
if
you're,
calling
via
phone
there'll
be
an
individual
on
the
other
line,
that's
going
to
document
the
complaint
to
report
that
you're
putting
through
and
then
it's
very
difficult,
obviously
for
us
to
go
back
to
that
individual.
If
they
haven't
created
an
online
account,
we
can't
go.
H
A
Great
thank
you
for
that
that
descriptor
description
indicates
just
how
long
some
of
these
take
or
how
much
time
in
your
day,
you're
spending
doing
this
I
mean
we.
We
know
it
as
well.
You
know,
but
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
there's
that
much
feedback
when
it
can
be
done.
A
Okay,
so
no
I,
don't
need
to
see
any
other
hands
up.
So,
in
terms
of
this
report,
recommendation
that
the
audit
committee
recommend
Council
receive
the
2022
report
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
Is
this
item
received.
A
Received
great
okay
office,
the
auditor
general
2022
annual
report
presentation,
Mrs
gujong.
H
J
J
I
would
like
to
personally
thank
all
the
members
of
my
team
for
all
of
their
work
and
for
the
accomplishments
this
year.
I
would
like
to
thank
the
general
manager,
as
well
as
the
management
team,
because
he
really
collaborated
with
us
with
the
continuous
Improvement
system
that
we've
put
in
place
and
with
all
of
the
initiative
taken.
H
This
report
outlines
the
accomplishments
and
work
carried
out
by
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
in
2022
I'm,
very
proud
of
the
work
my
team
has
accomplished
over
this
past
year.
I
would
personally
like
to
thank
all
members
of
my
team
for
their
extraordinary
contribution
to
the
office
and
its
success
this
year.
H
Furthermore,
I
would
like
to
extend
my
appreciation
to
the
interim
city
manager
and
the
senior
leadership
team
for
their
openness
and
willingness
to
collaborate
through
the
continuous
improvements
we
are
striving
to
bring
to
our
processes,
as
well
as
to
the
city
as
a
whole
and
before
I
ask
to
go
to
the
next
slide.
I
just
want
to
say
you
see
a
picture
up
right
here
and
you
see.
I
have
I,
have
a
small
team,
but
I
love,
my
team
and
I'm
very,
very
thankful
for
all
of
their
hard
work.
H
H
One
of
our
key
initiatives
or
key
objectives
for
2022
was
to
increase
awareness
of
the
oag
through
increased
communication
with
our
stakeholders.
To
achieve
this,
in
February
of
2022,
we
created
a
Twitter
account
to
inform
the
public
of
key
news,
help
educate
our
followers
on
the
role
of
the
oag,
discuss
our
ongoing
work,
as
well
as
raise
awareness
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
in
the
spring
of
2022.
We
also
designed
and
launched
a
new
logo
for
the
office,
helping
to
promote
our
values
of
Independence,
Integrity
accountability
and
transparency.
H
The
office
experienced
another
first
by
launching
its
first
public
consultation
as
part
of
three
audits
we
conducted
on
the
Convoy
protest.
This
was
pivotal
to
ensuring
our
work
included
all
perspectives,
the
direct
impact
faced
by
residents,
as
well
as
continuing
to
raise
awareness
about
our
office.
Engaging
the
public
and
seeking
feedback
seeking
their
feedback
is
a
form
of
impact.
Excuse
me
a
form
of
input.
The
office
plans
to
continue
to
leverage
where
possible.
H
H
In
2021,
we
established
a
few
key
performance
metrics
to
ensure
office
was
running
effectively
and
efficiently
and
to
identify
continuous
improvements.
This
year
we
will
be
reviewing
these
metrics
to
see
if
there
are
any
others,
we
may
wish
to
incorporate
in
December
of
2021
Council
approved
our
2022-2023
audit
work
plan
with
anticipated
reporting
dates
to
the
audit
committee
for
each
proposed
audit.
H
We
have
completed
and
reported
on
100
of
our
audits
within
the
prescribed
time
frame
in
2022,
we
issued
44
recommendations
as
a
result
of
the
Audits
and
reviews
and
investigations
we
conducted
all
recommendations
were
accepted
by
management.
I
am
also
very
happy
to
report
that
in
2022
our
office
came
in
under
budget.
H
Our
audit
staff
have
professional
audit,
certifications
and
advanced
designations
to
maintain
good
standing
and
the
Very
with
the
various
associations.
Staff
are
required
to
take
professional
development
training
every
year
to
enhance
their
knowledge,
skills
and
other
competencies,
including
ethics
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
all
staff
have
met
their
respective
requirements
for
2022..
H
Also.
Last
year,
the
oeh
staff
have
complied
with
the
Institute
of
internal
auditor
standards
and
observed
their
code
of
ethics,
as
well
as
the
employee
code
of
conduct
for
the
city
of
Ottawa.
Oeg
staff
have
also
applied
and
upheld
the
principles
of
Integrity
objectivity,
confidentiality
and
competency
and
maintained
and
confirm
their
independence
from
the
administration.
H
The
survey
results
show
that
response
respondents
have
felt
a
very
positive
change
in
our
audit
approach
over
the
past
couple
of
years
and
that
they
see
the
value
our
audits
bring
to
their
departments
and
the
city
as
a
whole.
All
feedback
received
through
these
surveys
is
used
in
the
office's
continuous
improvement
process.
H
H
A
General,
it's
wonderful
I,
don't
see
any
hands
up
any
questions.
Anyone
on
this
annual
report-
counselor
Kavanaugh.
D
Thank
you
chair.
This
is
still
related
to
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and
I
just
want
to
know
how
that's
going
to
work
going
forward.
If
there's
a
change
in
policy
and
I
appreciate
the
efficiencies
that
your
office
has
done
with
such
a
small
team,
but
I
just
want
to
know
how
that
future
looks
foreign.
H
Counselor
at
the
moment,
I
I
can't
necessarily
State.
You
know
what
changes
are
are
in
the
works,
as
I
mentioned
in
the
previous
presentation,
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
program
itself,
so
the
policy
is
owned
by
the
city
manager
and,
as
such,
we'll
be
working
with
them
to
identify
any
areas
where
we
can
add
Clarity.
H
H
So
this,
my
understanding
in
the
clerk's
office
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
with
this,
the
city
manager
owns
the
the
policy
itself
per
se,
which
is
approved
by
Council.
The
office
of
the
auditor.
General's
role
is
to
administer
the
the
program
itself
with
regards
to,
obviously
the
hotline
and
the
conduct
of
Investigations
to
ensure
that
they
are
independent
from
the
administration.
D
Yeah,
of
course,
I
appreciate
that.
No
thank
you
for
the
report
very
appreciative
and
I
and
I
know
that
you've
you've
said
when
questions
have
come
up
about
further
investigations
that
you've
still
got
a
very
full
plate
of
of
things
coming
up.
Thank
you.
A
A
Okay,
we'll
look
forward
to
that
counselor
Hill
I,
don't
know
how
to
hand
up
you
took
it
back
down.
It's.
C
Just
because
I
assumed
I
was
next
and
I.
Don't
have
a
quick
one
there
chair.
So
thank
you
very
much
to
the
auditor.
General
I
just
want
to
say
just
a
quick.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
know
you've
been
very
responsive
to
our
office
whenever
we've
had
specific
questions
and
issues,
and
certainly
guidance
and
I.
Think
your
annual
general
report
really
sums
that
up,
but
it's
been
a
very
busy
year
for
you
and
your
office
and
I
think
you've
done
fantastic
work.
O
Thank
you,
I
want
to
thank
you
for.
Similarly
thank
you
for
the
report.
I
do
have
a
question
about
the
recommendations
that
you
give
to
management
or
gift
to
management
when,
when
you
do
make
them
it's
it's
one
thing
to
say:
you
know
it's
great
to
see
that
100
of
recommendations
were
accepted
by
management
last
year,
but
it's
also
like
you
know.
Sometimes
you
think
it's
one
thing
to
say
that
we
accept
them.
O
It's
another
thing
to
actually
do
something
about
it
or
to
determine
whether
or
not
those
recommendations
are
feasible
or
not.
I
know
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
follow-up
a
little
bit
later,
but
is
there?
Is
there
kind
of
like
a
high
level
overview?
You
can
save
like
what
what
accepting
that
recommendation
entails
other
than
just
saying
yeah,
it's
fine.
H
Absolutely
counselor
chair
through
you,
I
think,
what's
really
important
to
to
First
note
is
the
working
relationship
that
my
office
has
with
the
city
manager's
office.
When
I
came
into
this
role
two
and
a
half
years
ago,
I
made
it
very
clear:
I,
don't
want
somebody
agreeing
with
us
for
the
sake
of
agreeing
for
it
to
enter
into
a
report
to
then
have
a
recommendation
or
an
action
plan.
That
management
has
no
intentions
on
implementing
to
me.
That
makes
our
work
for
lack
of
a
better
word
useless.
It
really
adds
no
value.
H
H
We
have
what's
referred
to
as
a
finding
sheet
and
in
there
we'll
identify
what
we
believe
the
root
cause
is
and
the
risk
that
we're
trying
to
address
so
usually
if
we've
missed
the
boat
in
one
of
those
areas,
if
we've
missed
something
through
our
work,
we're
going
to
get
to
that
through
our
discussion.
If
we're
recommending
something
that
doesn't
seem
feasible,
it's
going
to
cost
too
much
money
in
the
city
doesn't
have
that.
H
That's
usually
where
our
discussions
happen
and
we
try
to
find
a
better
solution
in
order
to
minimize
the
risk
or
address
the
concern
or
issue
that
we're
raising
as
a
result
of
our
audit.
So
for
me
it's
it's
that
process.
That's
really
important
where
we
can
identify
whether
or
not
we're
on
the
same
page
and
I,
always
I
always
tell
our
odd
at
ease
when
when
we're
done
is,
if
you
disagree
with
me,
tell
me
that's
great:
it's
okay,
it's
constructive
for
us
not
to
have
the
same
opinion.
H
Sometimes
we
haven't
seen
that
in
our
audit
reports,
yet
so
I
think
the
most
I
can
say
is.
You
might
want
to
direct
that
question
to
management
to
see
if
they
have
anything
additional
to
add
to
that,
but
we
work
really
hard
to
ensure
that
we
are
on
the
same
page
and
and
we
work
from
that
point
city.
K
Yeah,
thank
you
very
much.
We
we
do
work
directly
with
the
oag's
office
in
terms
of
every
audit,
every
recommendation
that
is
part
of
each
report
and
the
lens
that
we
put
on
it
is
really,
as
the
oag
says,
is
the
recommendation
feasible
in
terms
of
our
implementation?
What
is
the
time
frame?
We're
able
to
do
that
by
and
look
at
you
know
what
kind
of
evidence
that
we
have
to
produce
when
we
do
meet
the
requirement
and
the
time
frame.
E
Thank
you
chair
a
question
for
the
city
manager's
office
when
an
audit
recommendation
is
accepted
and
a
deadline
agreed
to
between
the
oag
and
the
CMO
and
that
deadline
passes.
So
the
recommendation
hasn't
been
completed.
What's
the
process
for
the
city
manager's
office
to
follow
up
with
the
relevant
Department
to
ensure
that
it
is
actually
going
to
be
implemented
and
completed.
K
Thanks
very
much,
we
track
every
audit
recommendation,
so
we
know
whether
we're
on
time
or
off
track
those
that
do
fall
in
that
off
track.
Time
frame
are
of
limited
percentage
in
terms
of
the
overall
results,
we're
in
communication
which
each
of
the
departments
in
terms
of
ownership,
of
those
recommendations
to
understand
why
that's
happening.
Why
they're
off
track?
What
that
new
timeline
might
be
and
really
understand
what
the
impact
is
and
why
it
hasn't
been
able
to
be
done.
I
think
a
good
example.
K
Over
the
last
little,
while
really
has
been
the
impact
of
the
pandemic
on
the
organization.
As
you
can
understand,
you
know
our
resources
were
limited.
They
were
repointed
in
terms
of
responding
to
the
various
requirements
to
support
the
organization
in
the
community,
so
I
think
a
good
majority
of
those
are
really
tied
to
that.
In
terms
of
when
we
don't
meet
that
time
frame.
A
P
Thank
you
very
much
good
morning.
The
last
report
that
we
would
like
to
present
today
is
the
semi-annual
report
on
follow-up
procedures.
The
office
of
the
auditor
general
provides
a
semi-annual
report
to
the
audit
committee
and
City
Council
on
the
results
of
follow-up
procedures
performed
on
previously
issued
recommendations
that
have
come
due
and
further
highlight
areas
of
significant
risk
that
are
still
outstanding
that
warrant
further
attention
by
the
city's
Administration.
P
We
last
presented
a
report
on
follow-ups
to
recommendations
to
the
audit
Committee
in
June
of
2022.
due
to
the
election
in
the
fall
of
2022.
We
paused
our
reporting
cycle
for
this
report.
We'll
now
be
resuming
our
semi-annual
reporting
today,
we'll
be
highlighting
four
areas
which
include
the
overall
status
of
recommendations
issued
since
2018
the
results
of
follow-up
procedures
performed
by
our
office.
P
Since
our
last
report
in
June
2022
management,
attested
status
on
recommendations
yet
to
be
reviewed
by
our
office
as
well
as
areas
of
high
risk
that
we
would
like
to
highlight
to
the
committee
specifically
audit
recommendations
that
are
overdue
as
compared
to
Management's
committed
timelines.
Next
slide,
please
I
thought
I
would
briefly
remind
the
members
of
the
committee
of
our
of
our
follow-up
process
on
a
quarterly
basis.
Management
provides
our
office
with
an
update
on
outstanding
recommendations.
P
Once
recommendations
are
not
as
complete,
we
perform
follow-up
procedures
to
validate
the
steps
taken
to
implement
the
recommendations
once
our
procedures
are
performed,
the
summarized
findings
and
next
steps
are
communicated
to
management.
If
a
recommendation
is
assessed
as
incomplete
by
our
office,
we
request
that
management
provides,
provide
a
revised
implementation
date
and
a
go
forward
plan.
P
The
result
of
these
procedures
with
the
areas
of
high
risk
highlighted,
are
then
summarized
and
communicated
to
the
audit
committee
and
City
Council
in
a
semi-annual
status
report.
Next
slide,
please,
this
graph
depicts
the
overall
results
for
all
412
recommendations
issued
by
our
office
since
2018..
P
This
chart
includes
recommendations
that
we
assessed
as
part
of
this
report
in
previous
follow-up
reports
and
those
that
we
have
yet
to
assess.
The
breakdown
of
the
follow-up
results
are
as
follows.
53
of
the
recommendations
have
been
closed
by
our
office.
45
percent
of
the
recommendations
have
not
yet
been
assessed
by
our
office
and
the
final
two
percent,
which
showing
assessed
but
not
yet
closed,
represent
10
recommendations
that
our
office
has
assessed
as
partially
complete
and
requires
further
follow-up.
Next
slide.
P
This
graph
depicts
the
results
of
our
assessment
and
shows
that
of
the
86
recommendations
we
reviewed,
81
or
94
were
closed
as
the
issues
identified
have
been
deemed
sufficiently
addressed.
The
remaining
six
percent
of
recommendations
continue
to
be
in
an
open
State,
as
further
follow-up
by
our
office
has
been
deemed
warranted
next
slide.
Please,
a
total
of
186
of
the
recommendations
issued
since
2018
have
not
yet
been
assessed
by
our
office
of
these
170
are
being
addressed
by
City
management.
P
This
graph
depicts
Management's
attestation
as
to
the
status
of
these
recommendations,
as
at
December
31st.
2022
management
is
reporting
that
37
percent
or
62
of
the
recommendations
are
complete.
29
or
50.
Recommendations
are
past
due
and
34
or
58
are
not
yet
due.
It
is
important
to
note
that
these
figures
have
not
been
audited
by
our
office
next
slide.
Please,
we
typically
identify
areas
of
significant
risk
that
we
believe
warrant
further
attention
of
the
audit
committee.
For
this
report.
We
have
highlighted
recommendations
that
are
overdue
or
significantly
behind
schedule
relative
to
Management's
committed
timelines.
P
In
many
cases,
these
had
committed
completion
dates
from
2019
to
2021.,
based
on
the
discussion
with
Management.
In
some
cases,
interdependencies
exist,
which
have
prevented
their
completion
and
management
has
proposed
a
revised
Target
date
of
particular
note.
Five
of
the
six
recommendations
issued
within
the
in-camera
cyber
security
investigation
were
due
at
the
end
of
2022,
and
only
one
is
nearing
completion.
P
Please
note
that,
since
this
report
was
presented
in
camera,
we
cannot
answer
any
questions
related
to
the
status
of
the
management
actions
without
moving
into
closed
session
next
slide.
Please,
if
it
pleases
the
chair,
we
would
be
happy
to
take
any
questions.
Committee
members
may
have
related
to
this
report.
P
E
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
guess,
I
can
ask
my
question
now
so
to
the
city
manager's
office,
when
these
recommendations
are
passed
due.
What's
the
process
that
you
undertake
with
the
general
managers
of
the
respective
departments
to
ensure
completion.
K
Yeah,
thank
you
chair
for
the
question.
As
noted
we
Monitor
and
track
all
of
these
and
we
report
on
them
every
quarter.
The
the
reporting
goes
back
through
the
Departments
and
in
I'm
going
to
say
in
the
last
couple
of
years.
K
As
indicated
when
I
answered
the
previous
question,
some
of
the
issues
that
we
had
is
with
respect
to
the
resourcing
in
terms
of
where
our
attention
was
turned
in
response
to
the
pandemic,
where
we
were
responding
to
the
needs
of
the
community,
which
has
slowed
down
some
of
the
pieces
with
respect
to
the
work
on
these
recommendations.
But
I
think
what's
important
to
note
here
is
that
even
though
it's
not
complete,
it
doesn't
mean
that
we're
not
working
on
it.
So
we're
continuing
that
work
to
bring
it
through
to
completion.
O
Thank
you,
what
sort
of
I
guess
risks,
and
maybe
maybe
liabilities,
even
do
we
open
ourselves
to
does?
Do
we
open
up
the
organization
to
if
we
let
these
kind
of
really
sit
there
I
know
I
know
you
do
quarterly
updates.
I
know
you
keep
up
with
a
lot
of
the
recommendations
and
negotiate
alternative
timelines
when
needed,
but
do
any
of
the
over
do
any
of
the
past
due
recommendations
pose
a
risk
liability
if
we
continue
to
push
it,
whether
due
to
necessity
or
not,.
A
H
Answer
that
question
chair
I'd
highlight
two
specific
ones:
corporate
security
and
the
Cyber
investigation.
Those
are
our
audit.
Our
initial
audits
highlighted
some
key
risks
and
obviously
they
both
relate
to
security
and
could
have
either
a
high
reputational
impacts
or
also
future
costs
associated
for
the
city,
if
not
address
Timely.
A
I'm,
wondering,
though,
do
we
have
a
legal
comment,
though,
as
well?
Is
there
anybody
on
the
line.
K
Q
I
I
would
Echo
the
comments
by
the
auditor
general
that
there's
various
risks
associated
with
the
reputation,
financial
and
otherwise,
by
not
following
up
and
and
keeping
up
to
best
practices
other
than
that
I.
Unless,
specifically,
you
address
the
cyber
security
issues
in
camera,
if
that's
the
committee's
intention,
I'm
not
prepared
for
a
position
to
comment
further.
A
Counselor,
though
I
don't
want
to
take
over
your
question,
but
I
guess
I'd
like
liked
your
question.
A
lot
on
that
my
thought
was,
though,
if
we
ever
to
be
sued
for
something
is
it
considered?
Would
it
be
considered
that
well
it
was
a
recommendation.
It
was
being
followed
that
there
was
action
on
our
part
to
be
to
try
to
achieve
completion.
Q
Share
the
each
lawsuit
will
be
based
on
its
circumstances
and
specific
facts.
There
are
various
defenses
available
to
municipality,
including
mitigation
measures,
policy,
defenses
Etc,
so
not
knowing
a
particular
circumstance
or
facts
I'm,
not
in
position.
Others
say
that
generally,
the
courts
will
look
at
various
considerations,
policy
and
budgetary
factors
as
well
as
what
is
the
best
practices
in
this
municipality
and
other
in
other
municipalities
in
Ontario.
A
O
A
Other
questions
committee,
members,
non-committee
members,
but
council
members,
no
okay,
well
I,
don't
see
any
others.
So
my
understanding
is
there
may
be
a
motion.
Vice
chair.
E
E
Implications
section
of
the
report,
therefore
be
it
resolved
that,
in
accordance
with
procedure,
bylaw
2022-410,
the
audit
committee
resolved
in
camera
pursuant
to
subsection
13
1A,
the
security
of
the
property
of
the
city
with
respect
to
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
semi-annual
report
and
follow-up
procedures,
so
that
members
may
ask
questions
of
staff
and
the
auditor
general
in
follow-up
to
the
cyber
security
investigation
report.
2022.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
I
think
it's
fairly
self-explanatory
that
there
are
questions
that
Vice
chair
Brown
would
like
to
ask:
maybe
others
that
we
would
have
to
ask
in
camera.
So
are
we
supportive
of
that?
Then?
This
is
motion
carried
Carrie
carried
all
right,
so
we
will
resolve
into
in
camera.
There
will
need
about
10
minutes
to
sort
of
switch
over
all
of
our
Technologies
Etc
and
figure
out,
who
should
be
in
the
room
and
not
in
the
room.
A
So
we'll
just
need
to
take
a
little
break
here
and
resolve
back
after
that
foreign.
E
A
A
Okay,
for
the
benefit
of
those
joining
us
online,
the
audit
Committee
just
met
in
camera.
In
order
to
discuss
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
semi-annual
report
on
follow-up
procedures.
With
respect
to
the
cyber
security
investigation
report,
these
matters
will
not
be
reported
out
as
they
relate
to
subsection,
13
1A,
the
security
of
property
of
the
property
of
the
city.
During
the
in-camera
session,
no
votes
were
taken
other
than
procedural
motions
and
or
directions
to
staff.
A
A
E
E
And
whereas
the
auditor
general
would
like
to
request
one
additional
FTE
senior
auditor
position
funded
by
existing
Professional
Services
budget
dollars,
thereby
resulting
in
no
budgetary
impact
for
2023
and
postponed.
The
request
for
a
second
FTE
to
be
included
as
part
of
the
2024
budget
process,
therefore
be
it
resolved.
At
the
audit
committee,
recommend
Council
approve
the
addition
of
one
FTE
to
the
oag's
budget
for
2023
onwards.
A
E
Yes,
thank
you,
chair,
I,
think
it's
important
and
I
think
it's
recognized
by
this
committee
that
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
does
good
work,
but
when
the
AG
puts
her
hand
up
and
says,
I
need
additional
resources
to
continue
to
action.
Their
quests
made
by
Council
I
think
it's
important
that
we
listen
to
that,
which
is
why
I
was
pleased
to
move
this
motion
today.
I
would
ask
that
the
auditor
general
perhaps
provide
a
little
bit
more
detail
and
explanation
as
to
the
constraints
faced
by
her
office
and
I.
H
I
guess,
if
I
could
give
you
an
example
of
some
of
the
constraints
that
we're
faced
with
them
and
obviously
we're
faced
the
same
constraints
that
everyone
around
the
city
and
all
organizations
are
faced
with
with
which
is
a
shortage
of
qualified
staff,
availability
of
staff
and
the
issues
with
maintaining
Staffing
that
we
already
have,
because
there's
obviously
there's
there's
a
great
pool
of
individuals
and
there's
so
many
positions
available
out
there
where
people
are
looking
for
staff
just
like
we
are
so
I,
think
that's
the
first
constraint
that
we're
faced
with.
H
Secondly,
if
I
give
you
an
example,
last
fall,
there
was
the
then
Vice
chair
requested
that
our
office
review
lands
down
2.0.
We
obviously
accepted
to
review
that
particular
project
is
obviously
it's,
it's
very
large,
very
impactful
and
has
significant
financial
dollars
attached
to
it.
H
We
are
in
a
position
where
we
are
even
struggling
to
have
staff
to
be
able
to
create
a
request
for
proposal
to
bring
on
the
Consultants
that
we
need
in
order
to
conduct
that
work
so
I'm
at
risk
of
not
being
able
to
provide
counsel
with
any
Assurance.
With
regards
to
the
first
reports
that
are
likely
going
to
be
coming
to
the
finance
committee
later
in
the
fall,
so
it's
just
one
example
of
the
constraints
that
we're
faced
with
and
and
the
concerns
that
I
have
with.
H
That
is
obviously
we've
committed
ourselves
to
to
wanting
to
do
that
work.
We
know
the
value
that
we
can
bring
in
reviewing
that
type
of
of
project,
but
unfortunately,
at
the
moment
we
are
a
very
strained
from
a
resourcing
perspective.
I
identified,
obviously
throughout
some
of
our
previous
reports,
the
resource
constraints
and
strain
that
we
had
with
regards
to
the
volume
of
Fraud
and
what
reports
that
have
come
through.
So
we
are
trying
to
manage
our
day-to-day
wall,
take
on
the
additional
requests
of
council
and
continue
to
execute
on
our
audit
work
plan.
E
H
Yeah,
yes,
absolutely
that
is
correct,
so,
and
maybe
just
clarification
for
those
listening
today
is
that
members
of
council
cannot
direct
our
office
to
do
any
work.
We
can
be
requested
to
consider
a
particular
audit
review,
and
so
we
take
that
away.
We
look
at
the
risk
landscape.
We
look
at
the
existing
work
plan
that
we
have
and
whether
or
not
we
feel
we
can
add
value
and
whether
or
not
it
makes
sense
based
off
of
everything
else
that
we
could
potentially
audit
within
the
city.
M
Thank
you
very
much,
I'm,
absolutely
supportive
of
an
increasing
ftas
within
your
your
area
being
extremely
important
to
ensuring
that
we
have
well-functioning
program
and
services
here
at
the
city.
I
do
have
a
question.
I
just
want
to
confirm
so
this
it
would
be
a
permanent
position
that
would
be
created.
M
And
I
guess
my
concern
is:
are
you
confident
that
you
wouldn't
need
those
dollars
in
the
Professional
Services
budget,
because
I
would
imagine
that
there
would
be
certain
audits
that
arose
that
were
complex,
where
you
may
need
expertise
that
would
reside
outside
of
the
of
your
office
on
on
particularly
technical
elements
or
something
else
of
Professional
Services
having
that
available
is
always
important
to
AUD
and
I
would
assume?
M
Are
you
confident
that
you
wouldn't
need
those
dollars
as
well
to
remove
them
from
the
Professional
Services
budget
like
I,
when
I
read
the
motion
and
it
it
talks
about
you're
gonna,
not
request
for
the
2024.
I'm
I'm,
just
concerned
that
when
you
have
increasing
number
of
programs
and
services
we're
seeing
bigger
and
bigger
dollar
figures
on
on
contracts,
p3s
all
these
sort
of
things?
M
Are
you
confident
that
you
that
it's
okay
to
to
remove
that
from
the
Professional
Services
budget
like?
Is
there
a
sufficient
cushion
there.
H
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
question.
Chair
myself
and
Deputy
auditor
general
gordonstein
went
through
an
analysis
in
order
to
determine
whether
or
not
this
was
obviously
the
right
course
of
action.
Obviously,
I'd
much
prefer
to
keep
my
Professional
Services
dollars,
but,
as
read
in
the
motion,
I
understand
the
constraints
that
the
city
is
faced
with
right
now.
So
what
this
will
allow
us
is
the
ability
to
bring
in
an
additional
full-time
employee
continue
to
build
the
knowledge
in-house.
H
With
regards
to
those
Professional
Service
dollars,
we
have
reviewed
to
ensure
that
we
can
at
least
still
bring
on
subject
matter
expertise
for
you
know
a
three
to
four
audits
that
we're
going
to
conduct,
because
the
topic
that
we
are
embarking
on
are
all
very
complex,
and
so
we've
definitely
taken
a
look
at
that
now
again,
if
there
were
to
be
additional
requests
for
us,
you
know
further
out
in
the
future.
It
would
potentially
require
have
us
requesting
additional
resources.
H
You
know
when
that
time
comes,
because
we
will
be
planning
our
year
with
the
budget
that
we
have.
So
we
will
be
selecting
our
audits
in
you
know,
keeping
in
mind
what
type
of
subject
matter,
expertise
we
will
need.
M
A
Thank
you,
councilor
Carr,
just
I'm
wondering.
Does
Cyril
Rogers
not
want
to
say
something
about
this
in
terms
of
the
Professional
Services
budget?
Is
it
just
the
Professional
Services
budget
specific
to
the
oag?
It's?
No.
It
doesn't
affect
anything
else.
K
A
Okay,
I
thought
that
was
some
other
connection,
but
okay,
councilor
Brown,
Vice,
chair
Brown,.
E
Thank
you
chair
and
a
question
for
the
auditor
general.
Are
you
aware
of
other
funding
structures
and
other
municipalities
that
pertain
to
their
particular
audit,
Shops
and
and
how
they're
funded
I
guess
I'm
asking
is?
Is
there
a
different
way
that
the
municipality
could
fund
your
shop?
That
would
allow
you,
the
resources
you
need
to
continue
to
undertake
the
work.
H
Chair
I
wouldn't
want
to
speak
necessarily
in
too
much
detail
just
because
I
don't
know
all
municipalities
across
the
country
and
and
the
way
they're
funded
I
do
believe.
Toronto
is
funded
in
similar
in
a
similar
fashion.
Obviously
they
have
a
significantly
larger
budget.
They
also
partake
in
the
external
audit
of
the
city.
So
you
heard
this
morning
from
Ernst
young
part
of
my
mandate
does
not
include
the
review
of
the
financial
statements
for
the
city
of
Ottawa.
H
Other
cities
also
have
internal
audit
functions
so,
for
example,
Toronto
has
I
believe
roughly
40
employees
within
the
office
of
the
auditor
general,
but
then
also
have
a
very
large
internal
audit
department,
so
they're
able
to
focus
specifically
more
on
their
performance,
Audits
and
more
value
for
money,
whereas
we
also
have
to
look
at
a
few
different
aspects,
maybe
in
some
cases
a
little
bit
more
compliance
work
than
oeg
offices
would
usually
review
when
there
is
an
internal
audit
function.
If
I
go
to
other
provinces
like
the
province
of
Quebec,
it
is
a
standard
rate.
H
H
So
it's
sometimes
hard
to
compare
from
an
Apples
to
Apples
perspective,
one
based
off
of
legislation,
two
based
off
of
what
the
Mandate
is
of
each
office
and
then
three
taking
into
consideration
whether
or
not
the
municipality
also
has
an
internal
audit
Department
that
can
help
alleviate
some
of
what
I
would
refer
to
as
coverage
of
all
programs
and
services
across
the
city.
That's
one
thing
that
we
struggle
with
in
our
office
is
I,
have
a
seven
year
mandate
and
I
can
assure
you
the
likelihood
of
me
covering
similar
areas
in
the
city
over
this.
H
That
seven
years
is
very
slim
and
I
probably
might
hit
about
five
five
percent
coverage
of
all
programs
and
services
over
my
seven
year
terms.
So.
E
H
Chair
I,
guess
it
would
depend
as
to
what
the
willow
council
is.
What
they're
looking
for
my
office
to
be
able
to
accomplish
I,
have
a
mandate
in
order
to
ensure
and
and
provide
and
ensure
that
help
help
city
council
hold
itself
and
the
administration
accountable
for
stewardship
of
public
funds
and
value
for
money.
So
in
order
to
achieve
that,
it
depends
as
as
to
what
council
is
looking
for
us
to
get
from
a
coverage
perspective.
If
council
is
satisfied
with
what
we
are
looking
at
then
I
would
say
you
know.
H
I
can
continue
to
raise
my
hand
for
additional
funding
when
we
feel
our
our
constraints
are
too
great.
In
order
to
maintain
what
I
would
say
is
you
know
kind
of
a
status
quo?
If
Council
would
like
us
to
continue
to
look
at
these
large
transformation
projects
that
the
city
is
continuing
to
undergo
and
they
see
the
benefit,
then
I
do
think
at
some
point.
K
A
Carried
all
right,
so
that
brings
us
to
adjournment
and
joint
meeting
with
Transit
Commission
will
begin
at
1
pm
or
if
it
is
after
12
30..
Oh,
it's
12
27.
When
this
meeting
adjourns,
then
the
joint
meeting
will
begin
in
30
minutes
all
right.
The
next
regular
meeting
is
to
be
determined
for
of
the
audit
committee.
We
don't
really
have
a
date
set
yet,
but
we
will
stay
tuned
like
we'll.
Let
you
know
okay,
so
adjournment,
counselor
Vice,
chair,
Brown.