►
From YouTube: Election Compliance Audit Committee - July 31, 2023
Description
Election Compliance Audit Committee
Meeting #: 2
Date: Monday, July 31, 2023
Time: 9 am
Location: Champlain Room, 110 Laurier Avenue West, and by electronic participation
Agenda: https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=1863b4f8-9b82-4f9e-a8ec-cccdda5f517a&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
The
debates
to
come
before
us
are
not
adversarial.
There
is
no
cross-examination
of
witnesses
contemplated
by
our
rules
of
procedure
and
there
will
not
be
any
cross-examination
of
witnesses
or
presenters
for
each
application.
Before
the
committee,
the
committee
may
hear
from
the
applicant
the
candidate
and
or
representatives
of
either
party
each
party
and
their
designated
persons
have
a
combined
10
minutes
to
speak.
B
The
committee's
rules
of
procedure
do
not
allow
for
a
right
of
reply
from
any
of
the
speakers
and
do
not
allow
for
debate
between
the
applicant
and
the
candidate
for
representative
third
party
committee.
Members
may
ask
questions
of
the
speakers
for
the
purpose
of
obtaining
information
and
receiving
clarification
on
the
matter
under
discussion.
B
I
trust
that
everyone
who
wishes
to
speak
today
has
filled
out
a
request
to
speak
form
and
has
submitted
it
to
the
coordinator.
Before
we
proceed
the
next
item.
As
a
matter
of
transparency,
the
committee
wishes
to
note
that
certain
committee
members
received
an
unsolicited
communication
from
a
member
of
the
public
in
relation
to
the
three
applications
before
the
committee.
Today,
the
committee
has
not
and
will
not
consider
this
communication
in
rendering
this
decision
or
any
decision.
Today.
B
B
Having
said
all
that
we'll
now
proceed
to
item
4.1
on
the
agenda
this
morning,
the
election,
compliance
audit,
application
of
the
campaign
finances
of
candidate
Doug
Thompson
for
Ward
20
Osgood
from
the
2022
Municipal
elections,
I
understand
that
the
following
designated
persons
are
here
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
John
Papas
from
Aaron
burles,
LLP
and
Edward
Phillips,
the
applicant
I
believe
Mr
Pappas
is
present,
virtually
is
Mr
Phillips
present
in
person
or
virtually
Mr
Phillips.
If
you'd
like
to
come
forward
in
the
event,
there
are
questions
or
you
have
anything
to
say.
C
Morning,
good
morning,
Mr
chair,
that's
correct,
that's
Mr,
John
Pappas
for
the
record
Council
for
the
the
applicant.
There
are
a
few
preliminary
matters
and
I
see
that
my
time
has
started
to
take.
But
there
were
a
few
preliminary
matters.
I
just
wanted
to
to
raise
with
with
committee
with
the
chairs
Indulgence.
C
C
Two
applications
I
think
that
time
would
be
more
than
sufficient,
but
for
the
purpose
of
making
some
some
opening
remarks
to
the
committee
this
morning
for
the
first
application,
which
I
noticed
the
first
application,
this
committee
is
considering
in
this
term
I
wonder
if
I
could
have
just
a
few
more
minutes
for
that.
Yes,.
B
I
I
think
as
long
as
we
stay
within
the
30
overall
minutes
that
would
be
available
to
the
applicant
this
morning.
We'll
generally
be
respecting
the
time
limits
according
under
our
rules,
and
it
would
be
more
efficient
for
the
committee
to
hear
from
you
in
this
manner
and
so
I'm
prepared
to
allow
that.
C
You'll
hear
me
refer
to
this
as
the
mea
there's,
an
elector
driven
model
of
enforcement
and
that's
unique
to
this
statute.
There
isn't
one
Central
agency
or
one
body,
that's
responsible
for
enforcing
the
rules
that
are
set
out
in
the
mea,
but
rather
electors
must
take
it
on
themselves
to
bring
forward
legitimate
complaints
about
non-compliance
with
the
campaign
Finance
rules
and
where
this
kicks
off
is
the
financial
statements
that
are
filed
by
candidates.
C
One
of
the
book
of
materials
that
that
I
filed
at
paragraph
36
of
that
decision
with
the
court
notes
is
that
the
timely
provision
of
financial
statements
is
an
important
part
of
the
framework
of
the
mea
and
how
the
framework
is
enforced.
The
statements
once
filed
permit
Public,
Access
and
scrutiny
of
such
matters
as
the
identity
of
campaign
donors,
the
amount
spent
and
whether
spending
limits
were
complied
with
among
a
number
of
other
matters.
C
The
important
public
policy
of
the
mea
is
to
ensure
free,
open
and
fair
elections,
and
it
seeks
to
achieve
that
objective
through
the
liberal
application
of
sunlight
as
the
best
disinfectant,
so
the
process
really
kicks
off
when
these
financial
statements
are
filed
and
the
committee
plays
an
imperative
role
in
upholding
these
principles
and
upholding
these
policy
goals.
It
is
the
gatekeeper
for
a
further
investigation
of
these
complaints
of
non-compliance
and,
as
You,
observe
Mr
chair
in
your
opening
remarks.
The
committee's
role
at
this
stage
is
pre-investigatory.
C
Rather,
what
the
committee
must
decide
is
whether
the
elector
has
reasonable
grounds
to
believe
that
the
candidate
contravened
the
act.
It
is
then
a
function
of
the
investigator
to
investigate
the
matter.
All
this
committee
needs
to
be
satisfied
of
which,
in
in
the
words
of
of
the
Justice
in
D
Francesca,
it
is
a
low
standard.
C
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Mr
chair,
Mr
Thompson
is
a
veteran
candidate.
He
has
been
the
mayor
of
the
former
Township
of
Osgood
and
he's
also
been
a
member
of
city
council
for
the
Osgood
ward.
He
has
significant
experience
in
a
number
of
Elections
and
by
virtue
of
this
he's,
gained
significant
experience
with
all
aspects
of
election
campaigns,
including
campaign
finances,
but
despite
this
Mr
Thompson's
financial
statement
gives
rise
to
some
credible
doubt
that
his
expenses
for
signs
were
properly
and
accurately
reported.
C
As
my
submission
members
of
the
committee
that
Mr
Thompson's
financial
statement
fails
to
accurately
report
the
value
of
his
campaign
contributions
and
deemed
expenses
related
to
reused
election
signs
now
under
the
mea
and
the
provision
specifically
is
88.2
sub
1
Clause
e
candidates
bear
an
obligation,
a
general
obligation
to
Value
contributions
of
goods,
and
they
must
report
this
in
their
campaign.
Finance
statements.
C
This
includes
the
value
of
leftover
campaign
inventory,
which
the
ACT
says
is
a
contribution,
and
the
ACT
further
goes
on
to
tell
us
how
that
value
is
to
be
ascribed
in
in
88.19
sub
3.
What
the
ACT
says
is
for
goods
retained
from
a
previous
election.
The
candidate
must
disclose
the
quote-unquote
replacement
value
of
those
goods.
In
other
words,
what
would
it
cost
in
present
day
to
purchase
those
same
goods?
C
Now
in
the
application
members
of
the
committee,
the
applicant
has
included
several
photographs
that
were
taken
during
the
2022
municipal
election
of
signs
that
Mr
Thompson
used
at
least
two
versions
of
these
signs
were
previous
election
signs,
and
we
know
this
because
the
signs
contain
a
white,
sticky,
tab
or
tape
or
note
that
covers
the
portion
of
the
word.
Re-Elect
covers
the
re
in
re-elect
and
if
we
look
at
Mr
Thompson's
financial
statements,
what
value
does
he
record
for
for
these
signs?
C
It
can't
be
accurate
and
what
makes
me
say
this
well,
if
we
look
at
what
Mr
Thompson's
opponents
claimed,
coincidentally
from
the
same
supplier
and
at
the
same
time,
the
value
of
those
reused
election
signs
come
forward
and
I
would
submit
that
this
gives
rise
to
Credible
information.
To
doubt
what
Mr
Thompson
has
claimed
as
the
suspiciously
round
number
of
one
hundred
dollars.
C
C
It
notes
that
the
supplier
of
his
reused
election
signs
from
Hawley
signs
and
graphic
from
September
2010
the
same
time
in
same
supplier,
Mr
Thompson,
obtained
his
signs
from
he
is
appropriately
valued.
These
signs
and
what
Mr
Thompson
has
failed
to
do
is
accurately
report
how
many
signs
he
used
the
size,
the
materiality,
and,
on
that
basis,
this
gives
rise
to
substantial
doubt
that
that
valuation
he
arrived
at
100
is
legitimate
and
accurate.
C
C
All
we
can
say
is
that
Mr
Thompson
would
have
been
able
to
use
about
10
signs
for
this
valuation.
How
Mr
Thompson
came
up
with
this
valuation,
however
strains
reality,
there's
quite
simply
nothing
that
an
elector
can
scrutinize
and
say
with
certainty.
This
makes
sense
what
will
uncover
and
detail
how
that
value
was
arrived
at
is
an
audit
by
a
compliance
auditor
who
can
conduct
an
investigation
to
get
to
the
Crux
of
how
this
number
was
arrived
at
and
whether
Mr
Thompson
accurately
and
completely
reported
his
sign
expenditures.
C
Members
of
the
committee-
those
are
those
are
my
submissions
with
respect
to
this
application.
What
I
would
submit
is
that
the
failure
of
Mr
Thompson
to
accurately
report
the
the
expenses
of
of
his
reuser,
the
value
of
his
reuse
signs,
which
constitute
both
an
expense
and
a
contribution,
give
rise
to
a
contravention
of
the
MEA.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
Pappas,
Mr
Phillips
is
the
applicant.
Do
you
have
anything
further
to
add
by
way
of
your
submission,
I
I
believe
we
were
within
probably
30
seconds
of
your
10
minute
time
limit
there.
So
I
appreciate
Council
your
brevity
and
sticking
with
the
time
limit.
After
all,
at
this
time,
I'd
ask
if
any
of
the
members
of
the
committee
have
any
questions
for
the
speakers
with
respect
to
this
application.
B
D
D
During
this
time,
I
have
filed
11
Financial
returns
without
any
issue
or
contentions.
I've
always
strived
to
be
open
and
transparent
about
my
campaigns
upon
review,
I've
determined
that
there
was
an
accounting
error
in
the
stated
amount
of
one
hundred
dollars
that
pertain
to
the
material
used
reused
from
previous
elections
that
were
listed
on
my
financial
return
by
team
selection.
A
strategy
was
to
use
only
lawn
signs
from
previous
elections
that
had
a
value
of
one
hundred
dollars,
and
this
was
from
inventory
of
signs
that
were
from
the
2010
election
subsequent
that
decision.
D
Unfortunately,
that
decision
to
reuse
other
than
the
lawn
sign
does
not
relate
to
our
finance
team.
As
a
result
of
this
miscommunication
and
error
occurred
in
the
calculation
of
the
value
of
materials
from
previous
elections,
there
was
no
malicious
intent
or
intended
benefit.
In
this
era,
material
from
the
2010
election
12
years
ago
consisted
of
less
than
25
signs.
These
included
lawn
signs,
24x16
three
foot
by
four
foot
signs
four
by
eight
foot
signs
and
eight
inch
by
four
foot.
D
Of
that
year,
I've
been
using
Holly
sign
since
1985
and
in
their
estimation,
the
value
of
all
the
signs
that
I
had
from
previous
elections
would
be
less
than
five
hundred
dollars.
As
could
be
understood,
some
of
these
signs
were
in
poor
condition
and
there
were
a
couple
of
homemade
signs
in
the
the
pile
of
signs
that
we've
had
to.
D
We
had
stored,
there's
no
standard
price
for
election
signs
campaigns,
negotiate
with
companies
for
the
best
prices
available,
and
it
goes
without
saying
that
pricing
is
also
based
on
the
type
the
style
and
information
on
the
signage
I
have
and
I
I
can
prepare
to
present
to
the
committee,
the
costing
from
Hawley
signs
for
each
of
those
type
of
signs.
That
I've
alluded
to,
and
they
certainly
are
not
in
the
category
of
those
that
were
mentioned
in
the
previous
presentation.
D
An
election
sign
team
can
be
one
of
the
most
difficult
part
about
the
campaign
to
manage
and
keep
an
accurate
inventory
and
just
as
a
just
as
a
matter
of
reflection,
a
neighbor
up
the
roads
two
years
ago
passed
away
and
when
his
son
was
cleaning
up
the
house
and
the
storage
area,
they
found
four
of
my
lawn
signs
from
I,
guess,
2010
and
previous
to
that.
So
the
signage
is
a
difficult
area
to
manage,
as
I
mentioned,
in
campaigns
in
the
2022
Financial
expense
limit
reward
20.
D
the
limit
was
24
850.90
and
our
filed
return.
Our
expenses
were
nineteen
thousand
five
hundred
forty
four
dollars
and
thirteen
excuse
me
13
cents.
So
there
was
a
value
of
over
five
thousand
dollars
of
available
room
for
expenses.
In
my
filing
there
was
no
intent
or
value
in
our
campaign
and
misrepresenting
the
amount
listed.
It
was
a
regrettable
communication
and
accounting
error
that
I
take
full
responsibility
for
Mr,
chair
and
members
of
the
committee
I
understand
the
Integrity
of
the
electron
process
is
very
important.
D
It
is
crucial
that
the
committee
ensure
that
complaints
are
valid
and
all
aspects
of
the
issue
are
considered
in
my
personal
life.
My
teaching
career,
as
well
as
my
political
service,
I've,
always
believed
in
compassion,
honesty
and
integrity.
That
is
who
I
am
again
I
want
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
and
I'm
available
for
any
questions
that
you
might
have,
and
just
before
we
go
to
that
Mr
chair
the
end
of
filings
by
the
applicant.
D
B
Thank
you,
Mr
Thompson.
We
would
now
proceed
to
questions
for
you
from
the
committee
members
and
maybe
I'll
just
ask
one
quick
clarification.
Can
you
please,
with
respect
to
the
last
comment
you
made
about
a
filing?
An
error
provide
a
little
more
clarity
about
which
photograph
you
are
referring
to
yeah.
D
There's
a
picture
of
of
my
vote
mobile
this
this.
The
this
is
my
personal
van
that
we
had
deckled
for
the
election.
I
believe
it's
picture
number
four
and
this
I
I
presume,
was
to
be
part
of
the
presentation
of
the
expenses
from
previous
elections.
It
should
be
noted
that
this
I
have
an
invoice
from
the
company
that
deckled
this
van
was
in
August
of
this
year.
D
B
E
D
Those
are
just
the
ones
from
2010
that
if
I
might
Mr
chair,
we
had
and
I
in
looking
at
the
filing
report.
I
I,
don't
it
it
asks
only
for
the
value.
It
doesn't
ask
for
the
details,
how
many
signs,
but
we
had
to
for
the
committee's
information.
We
had
four
of
what
I
call
the
picket
signs.
They're
eight
inches
wide
and
there's
a
picture
of
one
eight
inches
wide
four
feet
long.
We
had
12
long
signs
that
were
usable.
D
There
were
more
that
we
had,
but
some
of
them
were
not
suitable
to
use.
We
had
three
of
what
we
call
the
32
by
48
inch
signs,
and
then
we
had
the
larger
signs
96
inches
by
40
inches.
We
had
four
votes,
so
in
total
we
had,
it
looks
like
there
were
23
signs
and
if
the
committee
wished
I
could
provide
the
committee
coordinator
with
the
with
the
pricing
from
Holly
signs
that
I
had
said
that
I
had
negotiated
with
with
the
company.
B
Mr
Thompson
before
you
let
you
go
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
you.
You
mentioned
that
Holly
signs
indicated
to
you
that
the
value
of
all
signs
reused
was
less
than
500
and
we'll
clarify
when
you
inquired
with
them
about
that,
and
whether
that
is
based
on
the
present
day
value
of
old
signs,
or
is
that
if
you
had
acquired
those
signs
new.
D
Thank
you
for
the
question
Mr,
chair
yeah.
This
was
I
had
asked
all
these
signs
to
provide
July
21st
I
have
an
email
from
them,
giving
the
cost
of
the
of
each
of
those
signs
sizes
of
signs.
So
this
would
be
the
current
value
and,
as
I
mentioned,
what
I
think
it's
really
important
to
for
the
committee
to
consider
this
that
every
candidate
negotiates
or
goes
for
the
two
to
a
company
to
acquire
the
best
price.
D
D
I
I,
don't
receive
the
preferential
treatment
from
poly
science,
but,
as
I
said,
I've
been
there
for
probably
30
years,
and
so
I
I
can
I
I'm
just
a
simple
guy
from
the
country,
but
I
can
be
a
good
negotiator
and
so
yeah.
Those
are
the
current
voices
that
were
related
to
me
by
by
Holly
sign.
So,
in
effect,
we
we
undervalued
on
our
financial
report
tonight
a
fully
admit
the
the
error,
approximately
three
hundred
dollars
to
350
dollars.
D
D
Well,
I
I
have
to
be.
It
was
I
identified
when
I
got
an
email
from
Pittsburgh,
stating
that
there
had
been
requests
for
a
compliance
audit
and
we'll
explano
went
back
and
looked
at
my
financial
financial
statement.
I
I
tell
you
I
was
I
was
quite
embarrassed
because
I
realized
then
that
there
had
been
an
error
made.
D
Regrettably,
it
should
have
been
picked
up,
but
in
the
way
our
campaign
runs
and
I
think
in
most
the
material
was
sent
to
our
finance
Captain,
who
is
by
who
is
an
accountant.
She
looked
after
the
information
was
given
to
her
this
there
was.
There
was
a
lapse,
all
right
of
Communication
in
that
area,
and,
regrettably,
that's
why
we're
here.
B
B
B
The
committee
will
now
either
recess
the
meeting
to
deliberate
in
private
before
moving
on
to
the
next
item
or
Reserve
its
decision
to
deliberate
at
a
later
time
and
or
vote
on
any
motions
brought
forward
by
committee
members
I
believe
committee
members.
The
general
intention
here
is
for
us
to
recess
to
deliberate
in
private.
Is
there
any
objection
from
the
committee
to
doing
that
now.
G
B
B
H
Move
by
myself
be
resolved
that
the
committee
issues
the
following
decision
and
reasons
upon
hearing
the
representations
and
or
reading
the
written
submissions
and
documents
submitted
by
the
applicants
representative
and
the
candidate.
This
committee
here
by
grants
the
application,
because
it
was
presented
with
compelling
and
credible
information
which
raises
a
reasonable
probability,
that
a
breach
of
the
campaign
Finance
provisions
of
the
Municipal
elections
act
has
occurred.
The
committee
heard
submissions
from
the
applicants
representative,
Jay
Pappas
legal
counsel,
who
made
reference
to
his
written
submissions.
H
Those
submissions
covered
the
legal
test
applicable
to
the
stage
of
the
process,
as
well
as
a
summary
of
Mr
Phillips
written
application
and
the
information
attached
there
too.
The
committee
also
heard,
or
oral
submissions
from
the
respondent
Mr
Thompson,
which
the
committee
has
considered
importantly
Mr
Thompson,
has
admitted
that
his
financial
statement,
particularly
the
cost
allocation
of
signs
reused
from
previously
elections,
was
inaccurate,
Mr
Thompson
offered
to
file
further
material
materials
that
were
not
before
the
committee.
The
committee
has
declined
to
accept
that
information
at
this
time,
as
the
filing
deadline
has
elapsed.
H
H
Finally,
in
our
view,
based
on
the
jurisprudence
under
the
Municipal
elections,
act
Jackson
and
Vaughn
City,
citing
Mastro
Giuseppe
and
Vaughn
City,
the
committee
lacks
discretion
at
this
stage
to
decline
a
compliance
audit
in
view
of
the
record
before
it
be.
It
further
result
that
this
committee
directs
that
the
office
of
the
city,
clerk
in
consultation
with
the
committee's
independent
legal
counsel,
initiate
a
call
up
against
the
city
standing
off
off
her
first
audit
services
and
provide
the
committee
with
the
proposals
received
of
up
to
three
potential
Auditors.
B
B
The
following
designated
persons
are
here
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
again:
that's
Mr
Papas
from
Aaron
burles
LLP
and
Mr
Phillips,
the
applicant
Mr
Phillips
we'd,
invite
you
to
come
back
to
the
front.
In
the
event,
there
are
any
questions
for
you
and
Mr
Pappas,
we'll
just
wait
a
moment
for
the
applicant
to
be
seated,
and
then
you
may
proceed
with
any
specific
submissions
you
have
on
this
application.
B
C
Thank
you
Mr,
chair,
so
moving
on
into
the
to
this
matter.
The
second
application
again
I'd
like
to
the
committee
to
keep
in
mind
some
of
the
opening
remarks
that
I
had
made
in
the
initial
submission,
because,
as
I
mentioned,
they're
pertinent
to
all
three
matters
before
the
committee
today
with
respect
to
this
application
4.2.
C
This
deals
with
candidate
Mr
Sean
Menard.
Now
Mr
Menard
was
first
elected
to
City
Council
in
2018.,
he's
an
experienced
politician
and
he
has
experience
applying
the
campaign
Finance
rules.
But
despite
this
Mr
Menard's
financial
statements
seem
to
emit
a
number
of
sign
related
expenses,
so
election
sign,
which,
in
my
submission,
gives
rise
to
reasonable
grounds
to
believe
that
his
expenses
were
not
accurately
reported
in
his
financial
statement,
in
violation
of
his
obligations
under
the
MEA.
C
Now,
through
his
campaign,
Mr
Menard
used
both
old
and
new
election
signs,
so
reusing
old
inventory
and
procuring
new
election
signs,
and
this
is
seen
through
his
social
media
posts
that
accompanied
the
application
to
the
applicant's
knowledge.
There
were
at
least
two
variations
of
these
election
signs
used
in
the
2022
campaign.
One
was
a
smaller
sign.
C
According
to
his
financial
statements,
Mr
Menard
valued,
the
leftover
sign
inventory
at
two
thousand
one
hundred
ninety
dollars
and
fifty
cents.
Now
this
is
comprised
of
three
what
I'll
call
categories
or
subcategories
of
of
inventory,
or
contributions
and
expenses.
He
says
he
reused.
250
quote:
unquote:
small
signs,
as
well
as
600
H
frames,
which
are
the
the
metal
wire
frames
or
brackets
used
to
erect
smaller
signs,
as
well
as
a
category
for
quote,
screws
and
zip
ties
what
he
also
did
in
using
new
signs
in
his
campaign.
C
He
claimed
an
expense
for
that
as
well,
and
that
expense
and
the
line
item
for
signs
is
valued
at
two
thousand
five
hundred
and
seventy
six
dollars
and
55
cents,
and
only
very
recently,
and
in
fact,
in
response
to
this
application.
Mr
Menard
produced
two
invoices
for
signs
that
he
specifically
purchased
for
the
2022
municipal
election
and,
interestingly,
for
these
larger
format
signs
the
ones
with
photos
on
them
about
two
and
a
half
feet
by
four
feet.
He
says
he
only
purchased,
eight
signs,
eight
signs
and
based
on
the
applicants,
observations
of
Mr
Menard's
campaign.
C
Why
only
eight
signs
were
claimed
in
this
invoice
that
represent
part
of
his
expenses
for
signs?
How
does
that
square
up
with
the
observations
and
as
well
as
the
social
media
posts
that
are
circulating
about
Mr
Menard's
signs
and,
in
addition
to
this,
Mr
Menard
needed
something
to
hold
these
signs
up?
C
Quite
obviously,
he
claimed
he
reused,
metal
h-frame
signs
from
his
last
election,
but
those
signs
relate
to
smaller
signs,
not
the
large
two
and
a
half
by
four
foot
signs
those
needed
to
be
erected
with
wooden
stakes
and
there's
no
reporting
on
having
used
wooden
Stakes,
whether
new
or
reused.
In
his
financial
statements.
However,
there
are
photos-
and
there
were
observations
made
of
these
signs
being
at
dozens
of
locations
within
the
ward
being
erected
with
wooden
signs.
C
None
of
these
expenses
show
up
in
Mr,
Menard's
financial
statements
and
it's
by
submission
to
the
committee
that
this
emission
gives
rise
to
reasonable
grounds
to
believe
that
Mr
Menard
has
failed
to
accurately
report
the
value
of
expenses,
whether
contributions
of
past
inventory
or
new
materials
procured
in
the
course
of
the
election,
and
that
gives
rise
to
an
apparent
contravention
of
the
ACT.
Those
are
my
submissions.
B
B
I
am
not
hearing
any,
but
he
can
let
us
know
if
he
does
Mr
Phillips
or
Mr
Papas
I
just
said
one
question
for
you:
I
believe
you
said
that
the
applicant
was
aware
that
there
were
dozens
of
signs
with
these
larger
photos,
perhaps
Mr
Phillips.
You
could
expand
on
what
your
knowledge
is
of
this
and
how
you
came
to
view
these
signs,
because
I
note
there
are
no
photographs
or
other
aspects
of
your
submission
that
appear
to
address
this
specifically.
C
I
Sorry
Mr
chair,
I
I
eat
at
Joey's,
Restaurant
quite
regularly
down
down
in
Lansdowne,
and
it
didn't
occur
to
me
that
Mr
Menard
was
alleging
that
there
were
no
large
format
signs
until
he
filed
the
material,
and
so
I
can
tell
you
quite
regularly.
I
travel
up
and
down
Bank
Street,
the
airport
Parkway
I
quite
often
come
down
Smythe
I'm
downtown
on
a
regular
basis,
and
my
recollection
is
that
there
were
dozens
of
these
large
format
signs
with
his
picture
on
it.
Not
just
eight.
B
Okay,
hearing
none
any
further
questions
from
the
other
members
of
the
committee.
Thank
you.
We
will
move
now
to
the
designated
persons
here
on
behalf
of
the
respondent:
Andrew
Rhodey
senior
manager,
chaplain
and
co-llp,
chartered
professional
accountants
and
Auditors
for
the
candidate
Mr
Menard
and
Mr
Menard.
F
J
Just
want
to
start
off
by
saying
just
responding
to
one
thing
that
Mr
Papa
said
mentioned
earlier
a
moments
ago
that
you
know
a
large
sign
is
a
qualifier
for
a
substantial
win
in
a
in
a
campaign.
I
I've
done
hundreds
of
campaign
Audits
and
I've.
Seen
many
many
many
candidates
with
billboard
signs
in
prominent
areas
lose.
So
it's
it's
not
really
a
qualifier
as
to
how
large
your
sign
is.
J
There's
many
many
other
factors,
including
you
know,
standing
brand
in
the
community,
how
you
perform
as
a
candidate
if
you're
an
incumbent,
all
kinds
of
factors,
but
you
know
large
large
sign-
is
not
one
of
them.
That's
for
sure,
like
I
can
say
that
I
can
also
say
that
I've
seen
campaigns
where
there
are
no
signs
on
the
candidate
wins.
J
So
I'd
like
to
talk
to
start
by
just
reading
from
my
presentation
on
my
communication
that
I
gave
earlier
normally
with
an
application
for
a
compliance
audit.
The
applicant
would
believe
or
reasonably
believe
that
there's
a
kind
of
contravention
of
a
provision
of
the
Municipal
elections
Act
you
hear
I
mean
that's.
J
I'll
respond
to
the
I
guess
the
summary
and
the
conclusion
part
of
the
application,
where
there's
some
very
large
extensive
summary
and
observations
presented,
which
I
I
find
difficult
to
follow
about,
sign,
count
and
thinking
that
there
were
more
signs
out
than
there
were
reported
or
paid
for
through
the,
as
reported
on
form.
Four
I
think
that
was
the
general
idea.
What
was
being
conveyed
there
and.
J
In
the
end,
if
you
look
at
the
the
summary
section
you
know
it
says
it,
it
says
adequately.
The
candidate
did
not
adequately
account
for
all
of
the
new
sign
expenditures
for
the
2022
Ottawa
municipal
election
I'm
here
today,
to
tell
you
that,
from
the
perspective
of
what
I've
seen
presented
for
audit,
this
is
not
the
case
and
wouldn't
Merit
the
acceptance
of
a
compliance
audit
application.
That
would
definitely
suggest
that
there
is
not
reasonable
ground
and
that
the
compliance
audit
should
be
applications
should
be
rejected.
J
So,
as
I
mentioned
previously
and
I've
provided
the
invoices
from
the
candidate
or
those
that
were
presented
to
me
for
audit
those
are
the
signs
that
were
presented
for
and
accounted
for
in
the
candidates
campaign.
The
applicant
says:
there's
over
500
signs
that
were
out
and
it
doesn't
add
up
well
simple
mathematics
demonstrates
that
you
know,
based
on
what
the
candidate
stated,
it's
actually
factually
correct
I
mean
there's
over
600
signs,
available,
purchased
and
old,
sign
inventory
that
were
presented
and
used
for
audits.
So
there
should
there's.
J
J
You
know
the
applicant
goes
on
to
talk
about
observations
where
support
structures
for
for
some
small
signs
that
were
used
were
not,
and
provided
a
picture
of
some
some
large
candidate
signs
sitting
on
look
to
be
a
cinder
block
at
a
community
center
and
that
that
should
be
accounted
for
as
a
campaign
expense.
Well,
you
know
a
random
brick.
That's
found
at
a
community
center
that
one
puts
a
sign
on
it.
J
Haven't
come
across
that
degree
of
materiality
for
an
audit
that
one
would
contact
the
community
center
and
figure
out
what
the
rental
value
of
that
brick
would
be
for
a
few
minutes
that
it
was
a
you
know,
holding
a
sign
for
a
short-lived
event,
so
I
don't
think
it's
a
campaign,
expense
and
also.
Let
me
see
here.
J
J
The
the
candidate
is
approximately
two
thousand
three
hundred
dollars
below
the
the
threshold
spending
limit,
I'm
I'm,
confident
that
you
know
the
application
of
a
compliance
on
it,
which
I've
been
through
a
couple
of
times
already
in
this
context,
but
not
result
in
much
if
any
variation
from
that
particular
amount
and
would
serve
no
public
interest
versus
the
the
Incredible
cost.
I
mean,
let's
face
it.
Compliance
audits
are
very
good
for
the
compliance
auditor.
That's
about
it.
J
They
make
a
lot
of
money
doing
this,
it's
very
costly
and
to
Grant
an
application
for
a
small
outcome.
If
one
even
was
able
to
find
that
would
not
serve
any
public
interest,
so
I'm,
confident
that
in
this
case,
with
Sean's
2022
Municipal
campaign
he's
well
represented
on
form
four
as
being
accurate
in
terms
of
cost
valuation
and
therefore
the
application
should
be
rejected.
I
have
nothing
further
to
offer
on
that.
Oh,
there
is
one
thing
since
I
had
three
minutes.
J
What
benefit
would
it
be?
For
example,
if
a
candidate
was
to
not
report
the
use
of
a
pencil
that
they
used
in
their
compliance,
audit,
sorry
or
in
their
in
their
campaign,
and
then
a
compliance
audit
committee
would
decide
that
while
the
bar
is
low,
he
said
the
candidate
said
that
the
pencil
was
used,
so
we
should
Grant
the
compliance
on
it.
J
My
argument
is
that
there's
there's
no
Valley
for
the
public
to
for
serving
the
public
interest
and
doing
such
a
thing,
so
I
just
wanted
to
qualify
that
that
point
and
again,
I,
don't
think
here
we're
anywhere
near
or
above
that
we're
well
below
the
bar
as
to
what
or
whether
a
compliance
audit
should
be
accrued.
It
should
definitely
be
rejected.
That's.
B
B
F
F
F
No
not
not
to
worry
at
all.
We
had
accounted
for
two
thousand
one
hundred
and
ninety
dollars
and
fifty
cents,
our
previous
campaign
materials
for
those
250
signs
included
the
wooden
stakes
and
10
larger
signs
from
a
previous
camp
campaign.
The
description
obviously
can
get
more
specific.
They
vary
across
a
lot
of
candidates.
Regarding
the
small
signs,
the
campaign
actually
only
used
200
of
the
old
science.
We
had
240
old
signs
on
hand,
though
in
some
usable
shape
we
wanted
to
ensure
we
accounted
for
this
out
of
an
abundance
of
caution.
F
Many
of
the
old
signs
were
peeling
off,
so
we
didn't
use
them.
We
mostly
use
the
new
400
signs
for
which
receipts
have
been
provided.
We
did
have
high
demand
for
signs
in
capital
Ward,
but
all
of
those
have
been
accounted
for
in
the
campaign
inventory,
as
well
as
new
purchases.
That
total
would
not
change.
B
F
B
B
B
B
K
The
committee
heard
submissions
and
evidence
from
the
applicant's
representative,
Jay
Pappas
legal
counsel,
which
comprised
reference
to
the
legal
test,
as
well
as
the
content
of
the
application
applicants,
application
related
to
his
observations
about
the
respondents
election
size
signs,
their
size,
placement
and
number.
The
applicant
also
answered
questions
from
the
committee
related
to
his
observations
on
the
number
and
placement
of
certain
signs
referenced
in
his
application.
K
The
committee
then
heard
from
the
respondents
representative
a
roadie
CPA
in
which
he
referenced
the
materials
filed
by
the
respondent,
including
entries
in
the
respondents
financial
statement
form
4.
Mr
Rhodey
also
raised
a
preliminary
submission
that
the
application
was
non-compliant
for
failing
to
reference.
A
specific
provision
of
the
municipal
election
Act
Mr
Menard
also
answered
several
questions.
The
committee
posed
following
Mr
rhodey's
submissions,
those
questions
related
to
the
disclosure
of
Mr
Menard's
use
of
previously
purchased
signs
and
material.
K
The
committee
notes
that
it
accepts
as
credible
the
answers
provided
by
both
the
applicant
and
the
respondent
to
the
committee's
questions.
In
our
view,
with
the
benefit
of
that
additional
information,
a
reasonable
person
in
the
applicant's
position
would
not
believe
that
there
are
reasonable
grounds
for
believing
Mr
Menard
violated
the
Municipal
elections
Act.
K
Finally,
the
committee
takes
note
of
Mr
rhody's
preliminary
submission
that
the
application
failed
to
identify
a
specific
provision
of
the
Municipal
elections
Act.
The
committee
rejects
the
submission,
although
applications
should
generally
identify
the
statutory
Provisions
in
use.
This
is
not
a
strict
requirement
such
that
an
application
in
this
matter
was
compliant.
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair.
B
Voting
in
favor
thank
you.
The
motion
is
carried.
The
committee
will
now
proceed
to
item
4.3
on
the
agenda.
The
election,
compliance
audit,
application
of
the
campaign
finances
of
third-party
Advertiser
Horizon
Ottawa
from
the
2022
Municipal
elections.
The
following
designated
persons
are
here
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
Mr
Pappas
from
Aaron
burles
LLP
and
Mr
Phillips.
The
applicant
Mr
Phillips
we'd.
Invite
you
one
final
time
to
join
us
at
the
front.
C
Certainly,
thank
you
Mr
chair,
so
this
application
it's
a
little
bit
unique
and
more
unique
than
the
ones
that
the
committee
had
heard
previously
this
morning.
Horizon
Ottawa
is
a
registered
third
party.
These
are
relatively
new
rules
in
the
mea
and
they
only
took
effect
for
the
last
election,
the
2018
election
cycle,
and
to
my
knowledge
that
this
committee
has
not
dealt
with
an
application
related
to
registered
third
party.
So
it
warrants
a
very
brief
overview
of
how
this
regime
in
particular
works.
C
So
in
2016,
the
former
provincial
government
through
Bill
181,
the
Municipal
elections,
modernization
Act
made
changes
to
the
mea
that
effectively
established
this
concept
of
a
registered
third
party
and
how
it
operationalize
is.
This
concept
is
set
it
in
a
few
discrete
provisions
of
the
mea.
Most
importantly,
section
88.4
of
the
mea
prohibits
any
individual,
Corporation
or
Trade
union
from
incurring
expenses
for
a
third-party
advertisement,
with
without
being
duly
registered
with
the
clerk.
C
What
this
means
is
they
can
an
individual
or
a
corporation
or
Trade
union
can
make
advertisements
supporting
or
opposing
a
candidate
unless
and
until
they
are
registered
and
88.6
of
the
mea
provides
for
that
registration
process
quite
similar
to
a
nomination
of
a
candidate,
individual
or
Corporation
or
Trade
union
must
come
in
fill
out
the
necessary
paperwork,
and
that
paperwork
must
be
certified
with
the
city
clerk
that
time
period
roughly
equates
with
the
nomination
period.
It
can
be
done
as
early
as
May
2nd
in
2022.
C
if
a
person
makes
a
third
party
advertisement
without
being
duly
registered,
that
is
very,
very
clearly
an
offense,
but
the
date
of
registration
is
significant
for
two
reasons:
members
of
the
committee.
First,
pursuant
to
paragraph
one
of
section,
88.28
of
the
mea,
the
registration
date-
that's
when
the
campaign
period
starts
for
a
registered
third
party
and
secondly,
before
this
date
being
the
start
of
the
campaign
period.
A
registered
third
party
cannot
incur
campaign
expenses
or
accept
campaign
contributions.
Now
the
expense
bit
related
to
matters
dealt
with
in
this
application.
C
That's
provided
for
in
SEC
a
subsection
88.212.
Now,
despite
that
registration
process
that
that's
been
set
up
by
the
legislature,
the
balance
of
the
campaign
Finance
rules
continue
to
apply
to
the
entity
after
they
voluntarily
subjected
themselves
to
this
regime.
Now
Horizon
Ottawa
registered
with
the
city
clerk
on
August,
24th
2022..
C
Two
significant
points
about
this
state
members
of
the
committee
should
be
aware
about
first.
Prior
to
this,
Horizon
was
prohibited
from
incurring
expenses
for
third-party
advertisements
and
secondly,
more
importantly
and
pertinent
to
the
matters
in
this
application.
This
date
was
the
start
of
Horizons
campaign
period.
C
Prior
to
this
date,
campaign
expenses
could
not
be
incurred,
and
that
brings
me
into
the
substantive
submissions
with
respect
to
this
application.
Members
of
the
committee
now
first
relates
to
an
event
that
was
held
by
Horizon
called
Horizon
Fest,
and
this
is
detailed
over
the
background
of
this
event
is
detailed
in
the
application.
C
This
event
was
held
on
September,
10th
2022,
and
it
is
submitted
in
the
application
that
this
event
was
in
substance,
a
fundraising
event
and
the
expenses
related
to
that
event
were
not
accurately
categorized
in
horizons,
form
eight
financial
statement,
and
there
are
three
main
grounds
detailed
in
the
application
for
this
belief.
First
in
the
advertisements,
for
this
event
horizon
noted
that
while
the
event
was,
free
donations
were
encouraged
and
it
cited
the
thousands
of
dollars
in
expenses
that
it
would
incur
to
hold
that
event.
C
In
addition,
event
pages
on
social
media,
Facebook
Twitter,
they
contain
links
to
a
donation,
page
related
to
that
event
and
stepping
back
after
the
event
and
reviewing
the
financial
statements.
The
contributions
that
were
made
to
and
accepted
by
Horizon
at
this
event
reflected
a
substantial
amount
of
its
total
contributions.
C
But
in
the
financial
for
our
financial
statement
that
was
filed
by
Horizon
there,
it
offers
a
bald
disclaimer
that
this
was
quote.
Unquote,
not
a
fundraiser,
but
this
can't
be
inappropriate
means
to
bring
one
into
compliance
with
the
rules
and
I
as
I
understand,
Horizon's
response
submissions
to
the
application.
The
legal
test
for
whether
something
is
a
fundraising
event
is
whether
it's
quote-unquote
primary
purpose
was
to
raise
funds,
but
it's
my
submission
to
the
committee
that
this
can't
be
the
case,
because
that
wording
isn't
sourced
from
the
mea.
C
What
the
mea
says
is
that
a
fundraising
event
is
an
event
or
activity
held
for
the
purpose
of
raising
funds,
in
other
words,
there's
no
statutory
requirement.
That
would
be
the
quote
primary
purpose
or
or
only
purpose.
For
this
event,
the
second
issue
that
the
application
raises
is
a
donation
jar
that
was
circulated
at
this
event
and
based
on
the
form,
8
financial
statement.
There's
a
question
about
how
these
contributions
at
the
event
were
dealt
with.
C
The
members
of
the
committee.
That
brings
me
to
my
last
point
and
what
I
would
submit,
is
the
most
important
ground
in
this
application.
It's
my
submission
that
there
are
reasonable
grounds
to
believe
that
Horizon
started
incurring
campaign
expenses
before
its
campaign.
Period
start.
This
was
a
contravention
of
the
MEA.
As
I
noted
earlier,
Horizon
only
became
registered
duly
registered
on
August
24th
2022..
C
Obviously,
this
exists
in
in
the
physical
world
in
some
expenses
would
have
been
required
to
prepare
design
copy
or
print
these
flyers,
and
it
would
be
reasonable
to
conclude
that
expenses
were
incurred
in
order
to
disseminate
this
material.
Again,
someone
had
to
design
the
Flyers,
someone
had
to
pay
the
internet
bill
and
run
the
campaign,
and
social
media
account
to
make
these
posts.
C
And
importantly,
someone
had
to
pay
for
the
paper
and
the
ink
and
the
packing
tape
to
physically
put
these
posters
out
there
and
Horizon
notes
in
its
response
that
it
had
two
part-time
staff
members
at
the
time
of
the
election,
which
gives
some
reason
to
believe
that
these
employees
may
have
done
that
work.
But
even
if
it
was
done
by
voluntary
labor,
which
is
recognized
as
not
considered
an
expense,
there
are
still
costs
of
the
physical
materials
required
to
produce
and
distribute
these
advertisements.
C
C
The
Horizon
submission
in
response
to
the
application
seems
to
interpret
the
mea
in
a
way
that
says
social,
media
posts
and
promotion
of
horizon
Fest
were
not
expenses
because
they
don't
constitute
third-party
advertisements.
But
it's
my
submission
to
the
committee.
Whether
or
not
these
posts
are
third-party
advertisements,
as
that
term
is
defined
in
the
mea
there's
still
campaign
activities
that
have
an
Associated
expense,
which
the
mea
says
you
cannot
incur
before
your
campaign
period
and
in
this
regard,
I
would
draw
the
committee's
attention
to
two
provisions
of
the
mea.
C
Now,
there's
a
subtle
distinction
and
I
appreciate
that.
But
the
distinction
means
that
campaign
expenses
are
to
be
understood
by
this
committee
as
broader
than
just
the
physical
advertisements
themselves
and,
for
example,
the
the
ACT
specifies
certain
things
that
are
campaign
expenses,
and
that
includes
the
costs
for
a
compliance.
Audit
are
related
to
a
compliance
audit
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
publishing
advertisements
and
it's
my
submission
that
the
committee
must
interpret
the
expense
rules
liberally
and
broadly,
to
uphold
the
important
public
purposes.
C
Horizon
has
put
this
information
in
its
campaign
financial
statements
as
an
expense
and
whether
or
not
it's
a
fundraiser.
A
fundraiser
Part
of
Me
Horizon
has
indicated
that
these
are
indeed
campaign
expenses
and
the
fact
that
they
were
starting
to
incur
expenses
to
make
these
posts
before
the
campaign
period
began
both
in
social
media
and
in
the
physical,
medium
or
physical
physical
posters.
That
indicates
an
apparent
contravention
of
the
restriction
on
when
a
registered
third
party
can
begin
incurring
expenses.
B
C
To
your
question,
Mr
chair,
that
is
only
with
respect
to
one
ground
raised
in
the
application
and
that's
about
whether
or
not
the
event
was
truly
a
fundraiser
that
gives
rise
to
an
apparent
contravention
of
inaccurately
reporting
campaign
expenses.
The
submission
of
the
applicant
is
those
should
have
been
categorized
as
fundraising
expenses,
not
General
expenses.
B
Can
you
comment
on
in
respect
of
the
respondent
submission
that
the
event
lost
money
did
not
actually
make
any
money,
and
so
as
assuming
for
a
moment
that
we
were
to
accept
that
this
event
horizon
Fest
had
a
fundraising
function.
Is
it
your
submission
that
there
has
been
any
funds
raised
in
relation
to
third-party
advertising,
given
that
the
event
lost
money.
C
So
sorry,
Mr
chair,
if
I,
understand
your
question
correctly,
it's
whether
or
not
this
event
can
meet
the
definition.
The
statutory
definition
given
that
it
lost
money
do
I
understand
your
question
correctly.
That's
correct,
of
course,
thank
you,
Mr,
chair
for
for
the
opportunity
to
clarify
that
question.
My
submission
is,
the
outcome
of
the
fundraiser
is
completely
irrelevant
to
the
purpose
for
which
it
would
be
held.
C
B
L
I
think
we're
good
to
go
Mr
chair.
If
I
may
indulge
you
before
we
start
the
clock.
I
would
just
like
to
note
on
the
record
that
opposing
counsel
was
given
two
minutes
extra
in
addition
to
the
10
minutes
here,
and
they
were
also
given
an
additional
two
minutes
in
the
first
section
and
I
have
a
couple
of
housekeeping
matters
and
procedural
matters
and
I
would
seek
your
permission
to
speak
to
the
committee
about
those
and
it
not
be
deducted
from
my
10
minutes.
L
Thank
you
Mr
chair,
so
the
first
one
is
actually
just
a
type
rating
error
that
I'd
like
to
draw
the
committee's
attention
to.
So
it's
at
paragraph
79
of
the
respondents
missions.
You
will
note
it
reads,
also
placed
a
disclaimer
on
its
election
related
donation,
page
that
should
actually
read.
It
also
placed
a
disclaimer
on
its
quote:
non-election
related
donation
page
so
I
just
like
to
crack
that
that
slight
typo
there
and
I
apologize
to
the
committee
for
that.
L
I'd
also
like
to
just
correct
one,
more
typing
mistake,
and
it's
at
paragraph
38,
and
it
says
the
total
revenue
generated
at
the
festival
was
thirty
five
hundred
and
fifty
dollars
and
twenty
cents
that
should
read
the
total
revenue
generated
from
bar
sales
at
the
festival
was
3
520,
Pardon,
Me,
3,
550
and
20
cents.
So
that's
the
two
corrections
to
the
respondents
written
submissions.
My
next
submission
is
more
of
a
procedural
matter.
L
Mr,
chair
and
I
recognize
that
I
do
not
have
standing
before
this
committee
to
make
a
motion,
but
I
would
like
to
place
on
the
record
here
today
in
front
of
the
committee
that
on
Friday
afternoon,
the
opposing
Council
dumped
approximately
110
pages
in
additions
and
amendments
to
the
complaint
that
was
filed
on
June,
28th
and
Mr.
Pardon
me
not
Mr,
Speaker
Mr
chair.
You
will
note
that
in
subsection
88.35
sub
two
of
the
act,
the
deadline
to
file
submissions
was
June
29th.
L
This
is
reiterated
in
the
rules
of
procedure
for
this
committee
under
eight
sub
two
sub,
a
and
opposing
council's
own
cover
pages.
Make
it
clear
these
are
not
additional
submissions
but
amendments
to
submissions,
because
they
in
fact
cite
section
88.35,
sub
2.,
I
state
that,
because
I
do
not
believe
that
the
committee
should
be
able
to
rely
on
that
evidence.
Those
submissions,
those
amendments
to
the
submissions
that
were
submitted
29
days
outside
of
the
statutory
deadline
and
I,
would
submit
that.
L
If
the
committee
is
relying
on
rule
12
sub
2
of
its
rules
of
procedure
that
that
rule
cannot
stand
because
it
contravenes
the
statute.
More
specifically
88.35
sub
2,
and
it
is
also
contradictory
to
H
sub
2
Sub
a
and
Mr
chair.
As
you
are
aware,
the
statute
must
take
precedent
over
the
rules
of
this
committee.
L
Thank
you
and
I
was
going
to
say
good
morning,
but
I
think
it's
good
afternoon
now.
Mr
chair
and
committee
members,
more
okay
for
the
record,
as
I
indicated
earlier
on
Council
for
the
respondent,
Horizon
Ottawa
I'll,
be
speaking
for
the
entire
10
minutes
and
would
be
happy
to
answer
questions
at
the
end
of
my
submission,
in
accordance
with
21
sub
4
of
the
rules
of
procedure,
I'd
like
to
begin
by
offering
some
brief
remarks
on
the
burden
and
standard
of
proof.
L
In
this
case,
it's
important
to
keep
in
mind
that
the
complainant
Bears
the
burden
of
proof.
It
is
not
the
responsibility
of
the
respondent
to
demonstrate
compliance
or
innocence.
It
is
also
not
the
responsibility
of
this
committee.
The
committee
members
here
today
to
do
the
complainants
homework
for
him.
The
complainant
must
prove,
as
opposing
Council
noted
in
his
opening
remarks,
that
he
has
a
reasonable
ground.
He
has
reasonable
grounds
to
believe
that
each
violation
he
has
accused
the
respondent
of
actually
occurred.
L
L
End
quote,
so
what
sort
of
evidence
will
discharge
this
standard
opposing
counsel
has
cited
cases
with
different
evidence
in
his
submissions
they're
located
at
tabs
one
to
five
of
his
submissions
cases,
one
four
and
five
included
affidavit
evidence
from
the
complainant
case,
three
included
a
legal
factum
case,
4
included
expert
evidence
from
a
licensed
professional.
Those
are
the
cases
opposing
counsel
has
put
before
us
today
and
those
are
the
cases
opposing
counsel
is
relying
on
and
in
all,
but
one
of
them
a
compliance
audit
was
rejected
by
the
committee.
L
L
We
have
before
us
two
and
one-half
pages
of
complaint
and
submissions,
two
tweets
about
a
music
festival
and
a
cropped
cut
off,
incomplete
image
of
a
website.
I'd
respectfully
submit
that,
based
on
the
Precedence
cited
by
the
complainant's
own
lawyer.
This
does
not
constitute
reasonable
grounds.
With
quote
compelling
and
credible
information
I'd
respectfully
submit.
This
is
nothing
more
than
a
fishing
Expedition,
mere
conjecture
mere
suspicion
near
innuendo.
L
Now
the
majority
of
the
complainant
submissions
relate
to
Horizon
Fest
for
context.
Horizon
Fest
was
a
nine
hour,
Music
Festival
that
featured
musical
acts,
food
vendors,
a
trade
show
with
Community
groups
and
a
kid
Zone,
and
it
included
speeches
by
Community
leaders
and
political
leaders
from
all
three
levels
of
government.
This
Festival
was
open
to
the
public.
It
was
held
in
a
public
park,
no
tickets
were
sold,
no
admission
was
charged
even
after
accounting
for
the
revenue
from
the
bar
sales,
which
totaled
just
over
three
thousand
dollars
and
is
documented
in
the
respondent's
financial
statements.
L
Horizon
Fest
lost
sixty
two
hundred
dollars.
If
you
take
out
the
revenue
generated
from
the
bar
sales,
it
lost
over
nine
thousand
dollars.
I'd
suggest
to
you
that
the
complainant
is
wrong
at
Law
in
suggesting
that
Horizon
Fest
is
a
fundraising
function
and
that's
a
defined
term
under
the
ACT.
In
order
for
it
to
be
a
fundraising
function,
the
complainant
must
prove
three
elements.
First,
he
must
prove
that
a
purpose
of
the
festival
was
to
raise
funds.
Second,
he
must
prove
that
that
purpose
was
the
primary
purpose
of
the
festival.
L
Now
you
may
be
asking
if
Horizon
Fest
was
not
a
fundraising
function.
Why
was
it
disclosed
in
the
respondents
filings?
And
the
answer
is:
there's
a
legal
ambiguity.
A
legal
gray
area,
if
you
will
over
what
constitutes
a
third-party
advertisement
under
the
ACT
third-party
advertisement,
is
defined
and
I
quote
as
an
advertisement
in
any
broadcast
print,
electronic
or
other
medium.
That
has
the
purpose
of
promoting,
supporting
or
opposing
a
candidate
end
quote:
that's
the
statutory
definition.
L
L
When
Horizon
Ottawa
invited
municipal
candidates
to
deliver
remarks
that
its
Music
Festival,
it
was
presented
with
a
legitimate
legal
issue
is
providing
a
platform
to
a
municipal
candidate,
a
stage
a
microphone,
an
audience
does
that
constitute
third-party
advertising?
In
other
words,
was
it
through
an
other
medium,
promoting
a
candidate,
and
while
opposing
counsel
rejects
this
claim,
I
also
note
in
the
submissions
we
have
cited
a
case
by
the
commissioner
of
Canada
elections,
the
leading
Authority
I
would
suggest
on
campaign
finance
that
suggests
this
actually
is
the
correct
way
to
classify
this
event.
L
Accordingly,
the
decision
was
made
by
Horizon
Ottawa
to
err
on
the
side
of
caution
and
to
disclose
all
revenues
and
all
expenditures
related
to
Horizon
Fest
in
a
public
and
transparent
manner
to
comply
with
not
only
the
letter
of
the
law
but
the
spirit
of
the
law.
On
this
point.
Contrary
to
the
complainant's
assertion
that
the
respondents
have
under-disclosed
their
expenditures
and,
contrary
to
the
complainant's
allegation
that
the
respondent
has
circumvented
the
rules,
the
respondent
has,
if
anything
provided
more
information
than
is
required
by
the
ACT.
L
In
fact,
if
the
complainants,
lawyer's
legal
reasoning,
were
to
be
followed,
none
of
the
financial
information
related
to
Horizon
Fest
would
have
been
made
public
because
it
would
not
have
many
fundraising
function
and
it
arguably
would
not
have
been
an
advertisement
now.
It's
unfortunate
that
I
only
have
10
minutes
to
rebut
all
of
the
factual
and
legal
inaccuracies
in
the
complainant,
submissions
again,
many
of
which,
which
were
dumped
on
this
committee
on
Friday.
L
L
I'd
also
like
to
remind
the
committee
that
the
guide
expressly
States
and
by
God
I'm,
referring
to
the
guide
issued
by
the
Ministry
of
Municipal,
Affairs
and
Housing,
that
free
unpaid,
unboosted
social
media
posts,
including
tweets
and
Facebook
posts,
are
not
regulated
and
that
promotional
materials
like
posters
are
not
regulated
if
the
soliciting
of
campaign
contributions
is
merely
incidental
and
that's
set
out
in
88.19
sub4
sub
B
of
the
ACT
88.19
sub
4
sub
B
of
the
ACT,
now
I'm
approaching
the
end
of
my
time.
So
I'll
end
by
saying
this.
L
The
respondent
has
spent
years
advocating
for
greater
transparency
at
City
Hall
years,
encouraging
young
people
to
become
more
involved
in
the
political
process
and
years
advancing
Progressive
causes
in
this
city
as
a
third
party.
They
acted
in
good
faith,
they
accurately
transparently
and
completely
disclose
their
finances,
and
they
stand
by
their
financial
statements.
I'd
submit
to
you
that
the
complainant
has
failed
to
meet
the
burden
placed
on
him
imposed
on
him,
he's
Advanced,
rumors,
conjecture
and
innuendo,
but
he
has
not
Advanced
evidence
yet
alone.
Compelling
and
credible
evidence.
L
I
suggest
that
this
is
nothing
more
than
a
fishing
Expedition
designed
to
silence
and
intimidate
those
who
disagree
with
the
complainant
politically
and
furthermore,
to
impose
on
the
taxpayer
and
unnecessary
financial
burden
for
an
unnecessary
audit
and
I'd
respectfully.
Ask
that
you
dismiss
this
application.
B
G
B
Mr
Morrow
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
for
you
just
to
make
sure
I
understand
your
submission.
With
respect
to
the
case
you
referenced
from
the
commissioner
of
Elections,
Canada
am
I
understanding.
What
you
had
said
a
moment
ago
is
that,
in
your
view,
it
is
proper
to
classify
Horizon
Fest
as
a
third
party
advertisement,
because
it
possibly
provides
that
sort
of
other
opportunity
is
that
did
I
understand
you
correctly.
L
Correct
Mr
chair
so
again
this
was
a
music
festival
that
was
planned.
It
was
nine
hours
long.
Ten
percent
of
the
time
was
community
members.
Speaking
and
not
all
of
those
community
members
were
municipal
candidates,
but
some
of
them
were,
and
so
Horizon
Fest
was
presented
with
a
dilemma
of
whether
or
not
again
purchasing
a
stage
or
renting
a
stage.
Renting
a
microphone
and
providing
an
audience
for
candidates
was
in
fact
a
other
medium
and
so
out
of
an
abundance
of
caution.
L
They
disclose
that
and
the
reason
it
was
classifies,
the
classified
as
the
way
it
was
is
because
it
was
not
a
fundraising
function.
It
was
never
intended
to
be
a
fundraising
function,
but
there
was
ambiguity
over
for
that
specific
term
other
medium
and
advertisement.
So
again,
all
of
the
costs,
all
of
the
all
of
the
revenues
that
were
raised
were
disclosed
and
the
corresponding
loss
as
well.
L
It's
the
position
of
Ottawa
that
it
could
potentially
be
based
on
the
unclear
statutory
language
and
the
lack
of
judicial
consideration
of
the
terms
advertisement
and
other
medium,
and
therefore
they
decided
to
take
a
legal
gray
area
and
to
resolve
it
in
the
interests
of
transparency
and
I.
Just
in
terms
of
the
case
that
was
referenced,
it
was
a
pancake
breakfast
that
was
hosted
by
a
labor
group
for
other
purposes.
L
Besides
campaigning
for
political
candidates,
a
federal
candidate
from
one
political
party
spoke
at
that
pancake
breakfast,
and
it
was
the
position
of
the
commissioner
of
Canada
elections
that
providing
an
audience,
even
though
it
was
only
25
people
in
that
case,
and
a
microphone
was
a
regulated
activity
under
the
canned
elections
act
now.
Obviously,
there
are
some
distinctions
between
the
Canada
elections
act
and
this,
but
again
in
looking
for
any
kind
of
precedent
that
would
offer
any
explanation
of
what
is
meant
by
the
terms
advertisement
or
other
medium.
B
And
So,
based
on
that
and
the
definition
of
a
fundraising
function
in
the
Municipal
elections,
act,
which
includes
an
event
or
activity
held
by
a
registered
third
party
or
under
its
direction
for
the
purpose
of
raising
funds
in
relation
to
third-party
advertisements.
If
the
event
itself
is
a
third
party
advertisement
and
funds
are
collected,
does
that
not
make
the
event
a
fundraising
function.
L
Well,
it's
a
that's
a
legitimate
question
again
and
that's
why
the
entire
expenditures
and
the
entire
costs
were
disclosed
because
another
question
we
could
get
into
is
well.
How
do
you
apportion
that?
You
have
a
nine
hour,
music
festival
and
you
know
30
or
45
minutes
of
that
nine
hours
is
spent.
So
are
we
supposed
to
prorate
the
cost
of
renting
a
stage
prorate
the
liquor
license:
prorate
the
sound
equipment,
rentals
prorate,
the
rental
of
the
microphone.
All
of
that
I
I'd
suggest
to
you.
L
That's
a
legal
gray
area
and
again
the
respondent
chose
to
just
disclose
everything.
I'd
also
note
to
you
that
the
decision
to
invite
the
candidates
was
done
after
the
posters
were
put
up.
In
other
words,
this
was
a
music
festival
that
was
being
planned
long
in
advance.
There
were
speakers
again
from
multiple
Community
groups.
So
if
the
question
is
whether
the
posters
that
advertised
the
the
music
festival
could
have
been
expenses
incurred
for
a
fundraising
activity,
at
pardon
me
a
fundraising
function
as
it's
defined
under
the
ACT
I'd
suggest.
The
answer
is
no.
B
L
Correct
I
would
submit
to
you
that
an
event
that
contains
no
municipal
candidates
could
not
be
a
third
party
event,
but
the
moment
pardon
me
a
third
party
advertisement,
but
the
moment
that
those
candidates
were
invited
again.
It
provided
a
legal
question
about
whether
the
nature
of
that
event
had
changed
and
again
everything
was
disclosed.
It's
important
to
keep
in
mind
that
the
complainant
is
not
suggesting
that
the
respondent
didn't
disclose
anything
he's
essentially
saying
you
should
move
a
couple
of
numbers
from
page
two
to
page
three
of
the
form.
That's
that's.
G
B
You
and
finally,
one
final
question
for
you:
Council,
with
respect
to
your
test
that
you
set
out,
you
again
use
the
word
primary
purpose
with
respect
to
fundraising
function.
Is
there
any
Authority
other
than
the
guide
that
was
submitted
for
that,
where
you're
drawing
on
the
word
primary
purpose,
Council
for
the
applicant
had
noted
that
that
word
doesn't
appear
in
the
definition
of
fundraising
function
in
municipal
election
act.
B
L
I,
if
I
may
Mr
chair,
it
is
in
the
manual
that
was
published
by
the
Ministry
of
Municipal,
Affairs
and
Housing,
and
it
specifically
states
that
there
are
a
lot
of
things
actually
that
the
complainant
has
relied
on
that
are
not
based
in
the
statute.
For
example,
he's
trying
to
invent
a
new
campaign
activities,
regulated
activity
that
doesn't
exist,
and
he
is
quoted
extensively
from
that
manual,
so
I
would
suggest
if
the
question
is.
Is
there
any
case
law
on
that?
L
No
I
would
say
the
complainants
council
has
noted
this
is
new
legislation
and
the
courts
have
not
looked
at
this
in
the
context
of
third
parties.
It's
the
first
point,
I'd
make
second
of
all.
I
would
say
that
by
the
complainants
citing
that
manual
as
authoritative
in
its
own
submissions,
that
it
is
open
to
the
respondent
to
rely
on
that
same
manual,
it
would
be
I
believe
egregiously
unfair
if
the
complainant
we're
allowed
to
rely
on
that
manual
as
an
authority,
but
the
respondent
were
not.
B
B
B
B
E
Thank
you,
Mr
chair,
be
it
resolved
that
the
committee
issues
the
following
decision
in
reason
upon
consideration
of
the
election,
compliance
application
and
hearing
the
representation
and
reading
submission
and
documents
submitted
by
the
applicant
registered
third-party
Advertiser
and
their
representatives.
This
committed
hereby
grants
the
application,
because
it
was
presented
with
compelling
incredible
information
which
rate
sorry.
E
The
committee
heard
submissions
from
the
applicants
represented
in
J
Pappas
legal
counselors,
Mr
Papas
referred
the
committee
to
the
municipal
election
act,
provision
on
third
party
advertisers,
as
well
as
a
legislative
debates
leading
to
those
provisions
enactments
the
applicants
advance
three
submissions.
The
relevant
issue,
Horizon
Fest,
was
not
proper
realized
properly
categorized
on
the
respondents.
Financial
statements
for
Aid
the
respondent
incurred
expenses
before
registering
as
a
third
party
Advertiser
and
the
donation
jar
at
Horizon
fast
event
was
not
monitored
to
assure
no
more
than
25
dollars
was
contributed,
and
only
by
the
eligible
elector.
E
The
committee
heard
submission
from
the
applicant
for
Mr
Hirsch
and
the
applicants
representative
came
or
a
legal
counsel.
In
brief,
Mr
Morrow
focused
his
submission
on
whether
Horizon
Fest
fast
was
properly
within
the
definition
of
a
fundraising
function
and
argued
it
was
not.
The
submission
was
based
in
part
on
the
fact
that
the
event
was
a
music
festival
up
lasting
approximately
long
hours,
in
only
portion
of
which
was
allocated
to
the
candidate
speech.
E
E
E
The
committee
is
satisfied
that
there
was
reasonable
ground
for
the
applicant
to
suspect
the
violation
of
municipal
election
act
based
solely
on
the
advertisement,
the
responder
posted
on
the
social
media
account.
The
committee
takes
note
that
the
respondent
categorized
The
Horizon
Auto
event
as
a
third
party
advertisement
in
its
financial
statement
for
eight,
the
committee
was,
has
considered
the
evidence
put
forward
by
the
applicants,
specifically
evidence
of
the
respondents,
Twitter
tweets
made
on
August
12th
and
20th
2022.
Promoting
the
event.
E
One
of
those
posts
was
shown
a
photo
of
the
flyer
and
the
response
respondent
poster
in
various
locations
in
Ottawa,
the
respondent
only
registered
as
30
third
party
Advertiser
on
August
24
2022.
The
committee
concludes
that
the
applicant
reasonably
inferred
that
the
respondent
incurred
cost
for
a
third-party
advertisement
at
the
minimum,
those
associate
created
with
the
design
and
production
producing
the
flyer
before
registering
as
a
third
party
Advertiser.
E
In
light
of
the
foregoing,
it
is
unnecessary
for
the
committee
to
assess
whether
the
Horizon
event
was
a
fundraising
function
within
the
meaning
ascribed
in
the
Section
1
of
the
municipal
election
act.
The
committee
likewise
need
not
consider
on
whether
Horizon,
otherwise
use
of
the
donations
are
offended
the
municipal
election
Act.
E
Finally,
the
committee
acknowledges
Mr
Monroe
submission
that
the
committee's
rules
and
procedures
that
an
application
must
reference
the
specific
provisions
of
the
municipal
election
Act,
the
applicant
says
he
or
she
suspects
have
been
offended.
Mr
Morrow
is
correct.
However,
the
rule
of
procedure
also
permit
this
committee
to
vary
or
suspend
the
rule
requirements
to
ensure
that
the
real
question
and
issues
are
determined
in
a
just
matter.
We
hereby
exercise
this
discretion.
G
E
Be
it
further
resolved
that
this
committee
directs
the
office
of
the
city
clerk
in
consultation
with
the
committee's
independent
legal
counsel,
to
initiate
the
call
up
against
the
standing
City
offer
for
audit
services
and
provide
the
committee
with
the
proposals
received
of
up
to
three
potential
Auditors?
The
committee
will
speak
to
the
nature
of
the
compliance
audit
to
be
carried
out
at
the
time
of
the
auditor's
appointment.
B
And
hearing
none
the
motion
is
carried.
That
concludes
item
4.3
on
today's
agenda.
Moving
to
item
five
inquiries,
the
chair
is
aware
of
none
to
date
under
item
six
other
business.
The
chair
is
aware
of
none
to
date
to
any
members
of
the
committee
have
any
other
business
hearing.
None
moving
to
item
seven
adjournment.
The
next
meeting
will
be
scheduled,
as
required
within
the
timelines
prescribed
by
the
Municipal
elections
act.
1996,
should
compliance
audit
applications
or
reports
from
the
city
clerk
on
the
apparent
contraventions
of
contribution
limits
be
received.
We
are
adjourned.