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From YouTube: Joint Environment Prot, Water and Waste Mgtt and Agriculture and Rural Afrs Cmt - June 27, 2022
Description
Joint Environmental Protection, Water and Waste Management and Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee - Monday, June 27, 2022
Agenda and supporting documents available at www.ottawa.ca/agendas
A
B
B
A
As
I
mentioned,
counselor
al
shaziri
is
not
able
to
make
it.
So
it's
just
me
as
chair
today
and
to
counselor
to
rusev.
You
can
hear
us
jeff
and
I
have
already
talked
about
trying
to
host
some
sort
of
joint
meeting
with
it.
Some
committee
that's
going
to
guarantee,
I
think
it's
between
agricultural
affairs
and
it
sub
community
to
guarantee
rural
internet
service
improvements,
so
jeff
and
I
are
working
on
that-
we
just
have
to
you-
know:
blackmail,
bell
and
rogers
to
be
better.
A
C
C
Before
I
begin,
I
just
want
to
give
a
big
thank
you
for
all
the
time
and
excellent
work.
That's
been
put
in
by
the
project
team
for
the
ditch
alteration,
update
policy
update
this
project's
involved,
multiple
departments
across
the
city
and
has
led
to
increased
cooperation
and
communication
with
respect
to
our
city.
Ditches
next
slide.
Please.
C
C
C
A
consultant
was
then
hired
to
complete
a
municipal
scan
in
a
third
party
review.
The
consultant
provided
three
technical
memos
that
built
on
one
another
and
together
pointed
towards
strategies
that
the
city
could
enable
to
manage
their
ditch
alterations
more
efficiently
and
effectively
as
part
of
the
integrated
storm
water
management
system.
C
The
first
tech
memo
was
the
ditch
functions
and
impacts
of
ditch
alterations.
It
reviewed,
ditch
functions
and
the
current
policy
and
impacts
of
alterations.
The
the
second
technical
memo
was
the
ditch
alteration
policy
consistency
review,
the
consultant
reviewed
our
alignment
with
other
city
plans
and
policies,
as
well
as
the
federal
and
provincial
legislation.
C
The
third
memo
or
technical
memo
was
ditch
alteration,
business
process
review,
which
provided
a
swot
analysis
and
recommendations
to
revise
the
policy
and
mechanisms
for
monitoring
enforcement
and
cost
recovery.
Lastly,
the
the
consultant
provided
an
executive
summary
that
summarized
all
three
of
the
technical
memos.
All
of
these
are
attached
to
supporting
documentation
to
the
report
next
slide.
Please.
C
Based
on
federal
and
provincial
legislation
legislation,
the
updates
to
the
policy
was
limited.
However,
the
city
was
still
able
to
address
some
concerns
that
were
heard.
The
updated
policy
allows
residents
to
alter
their
ditch
through
two
meets
a
local
improvement
application
or
a
development
agreement
process.
C
The
development
agreement
would
allow
ditch
alterations
to
be
applied
by
a
single
entity.
The
upfront
cost
would
be
on
the
applicant
prior
to
approval,
and
then
the
city
would
be
obligated
to
manage
construction
activities
like
a
developer.
Would
when
building
a
new
development.
There
are
no
financial
or
no
additional
financial
impacts
to
the
city.
With
the
proposed
update
to
this
policy
next
slide,
please.
C
Public
works
has
also
created
a
meet
a
social
media
infographic
that
will
be
shared
during
the
spring
and
roles
fall.
Responsibilities
have
been
further
defined
for
all
departments
that
deal
with
ditches
in
the
city.
The
current
city,
ditch
maintenance
and
reinstatement
operations
are
not
changing.
Due
to
this
report
and
staff
reaffirm
the
enforcement
process
for
ditch
alterations
and
investigations
through
a
stepped
approach,
alterations
without
city
approval
can
be
enforced
through
the
use
in
care
by
law,
site
alteration,
bylaw
or
property
standards.
C
There
are
no
changes
proposed
with
respect
to
enforcement
on
the
existing
bylaws
if
enforcement
was
to
occur,
the
city
would
typically
verbally
discuss
this
with
the
property
owner.
If
no
action
is
taken.
The
city
would
then
issue
a
verbal
warning
to
reinstate
the
ditch
and
if
no
action
has
been
taken
by
the
property
owners
city
inspector
would
issue
a
notice
of
violation
with
the
deadline
for
the
ditch
reinstatement.
D
A
A
E
We're
here,
okay,
I
have
it
here.
We
go
okay
good
morning
counselors.
Thank
you
for
having
me
it's
a
pleasure
to
join
you
from
the
carlton
heights
and
area
residents
association.
Can
you
see
the
powerpoint?
Yes,
okay,
so
carlton
heights
is
it's
just
south
of
the
experimental
farm
bound
by
fisher
avenue
generally
and
the
rideau
river,
and
we
have
buried
major
streams
buried
underneath
our
our
homes
that
have
been
found
by
people
when
they
do
development
and
often
when
they
excavate
they
find
this
flowing
water
and
we
have
active
pumps,
clearing
basements.
E
So
water
is
an
issue
in
our
area,
we're
characterized
by
narrow
streets
with
no
permanent
on-street
parking.
No
sidewalks
and
degrading
boulevards
bus
routes
have
been
running
less
frequently
or
cancelled,
and
we
have
aging
infrastructure,
including
ditches,
culverts
and
catch
basins
that
are
now
reaching
72
years
old
and
in
fact,
they've
you
know
had
little
or
no
maintenance,
while
spring
thaws
and
heavy
rain
events
have
been
more.
E
You
know
more
problematic
over
the
years,
so
in
fact
our
secondary
plan
was
based
on
a
two-year
detailed
study
and
to
limit
development
based
on
the
infrastructure,
capacity
limits
and
flooding
problems
going
way
back
when
and
still
our
facilities
have
had
little
to
no
maintenance.
We
know
climate
change
has
exacerbated
issues.
E
We
are
getting
more
significant
rainfall
events
through
multiple
seasons,
spring
thaws
and
very
large
events
can
lead
to
sheep
flooding,
which
introduces
new
risks
and
with
more
development.
There
are
increasingly
hard
surfaces
that
limit
surface
drainage,
and
so
in
fact,
the
original
design
from
1950
may
not
be
enough,
and
culverts
may
need
to
be
enlarged
to
really
manage
water
in
our
areas.
E
So
if
you
look
at
ditches
culverts
and
catch
basins
and
what
they
should
look
like,
here's
just
from
new
brunswick,
it's
a
32
foot
wide
road
which
is
much
wider
with
a
very
established
shoulder
paved
and
unpaved
and
a
gradual
swale.
This
is
not
what
we
have.
We
in
fact
have
ditches
culverts
and
catch
basins
that
are
very
interdependent,
and
it's
important
to
remember.
They're
interdependent
for
water
to
flow.
There
has
to
be
a
positive
grade.
E
So
you
can
see
here
that
flow
rates
have
decreased
with
water
remaining
for
longer
durations.
We've
have
flow
routes,
losing
integrity
with
the
erosion
and
the
heaving
of
culverts,
and
in
fact,
we've
got
impromptu
urban
stormwater
ponds
occurring
in
our
neighborhood
and
we've
used
the
process
proposed.
With
this
policy,
we've
had
standing
water
in
neighboring
lots
where
residents
have
called
311
and
in
fact
it
did
nothing
and
the
site
plan
control
for
a
new
development
pinned
the
plan
for
the
new
ditch
to
a
shallow
ditch,
which
would
leave
neighbors
with
standing
water
when
escalated.
E
It
caused
more
problems
where
city
officials
said
construction,
it
would
be
dealt
with
after
construction
and
only
through
escalation
was
it
resolved
and
we
can
go
into
more
detail
in
q.
A
if
you
like
we're
very
disappointed
that
the
policy
didn't
include
any
of
our
recommendations
from
residents
and
any
of
our
concerns,
because
we
really
were
engaged
with
multiple
departments
and
in
fact
we
think
city-wide
requirements
are
are
part
of
the
solution
that
are
missing
here
and
in
fact
it's
entrenching
silos.
E
We
need
recommendations
that
require
a
systematic
approach
to
measuring
elevation
profiles
and
ensuring
positive
grades.
So
we
asked
counselors
to
delay
this.
Ditch
policy
update
to
look
at
a
systems
approach
that
necessarily
de-silos
this
approach
in
this
policy
and
includes
a
solution
that
builds
communities
and
not
stresses
them,
overburdening
developers,
residents
and
3-1-1
with
added
stress
and
cost.
F
Thank
you,
chair,
good
morning
to
you,
ms
costello.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation.
Excellent
as
usual,
I
just
want
to
ask
you
about
some
of
the
challenges
that
cortland
park
has
experienced
with
infill
developments,
and
you
alluded
to
this
in
your
presentation.
The
challenges
of
what
has
happened
to
the
existing
ditches
when
infill
has
come
in
and
how
that's
impacted
the
community.
Can
you
just
expand
that
thought?
Please.
E
E
So
in
fact
you
get
a
seesaw
approach
from
interconnected
ditches
and
culverts
where
water
gets
interrupted.
It
just
can't
seem
to
flow
right.
So
if
you
have
one
lot
so
we've
we
had
a
neighbor
that
had
a
lot
next
to
it
that
had
shallowed
so
that
this
this
particular
neighbor
had
standing
water.
That
was
problematic
continuously
problematic
in
his
yard
in
2016
called
3-1-1
said:
there's
a
problem
here:
how
do
we
resolve
this?
E
You
know,
then
a
developer
came
in,
for
you
know
new
homes
to
be
built
next
door
and
the
the
planners
directed
the
builder
to
set
the
ditch
to
the
shallowed
level
right.
So,
in
fact,
the
new
work,
the
new
development
driveways
ditches
culverts.
All
of
this
would
have
been
set
at
the
wrong
level,
leaving
standing
water
in
neighboring
yards.
F
E
So
so,
in
fact
it
was.
This
might
explain
it
a
little
bit
better
here
here.
We
recommend
that
surveying,
ditch
road
and
property
elevations
and
measuring
culvert
and
cash
basin
capacities
are
key
to
this.
So
we
need
the
standards
to
be
set
and
we
need
it
to
be
looked
at
like
a
system
and
in
fact,
there's
just
too
many
departments
you
can
see
involved
in
making
these
decisions.
E
So
we
need
to
break
down
the
silos
with
this
policy
and
begin
responding
to
a
community-based
need
which
will
end
up
saving
everyone
time
and
money,
and
you
know
particularly
you
know
three
one
one.
It's
instead
of
looking
at
a
point
solution
and
blaming
a
lot
problem.
It's
not
a
lot
problem.
It's
a
community
problem.
E
G
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
elizabeth
for
your
for
your
presentation.
I
have
a
number
of
areas
that
also
have
ditches,
and
just
just
so
I
I
completely
understand
what
I
understand
you
just
saying
is
you
you
can't
fix
or
or
deal
with
this
a
lot
by
a
lot,
but
if
you're
going
to
make
change,
it
has
to
be
down
the
whole
street.
In
order
to
have
that
connectivity
that
you
that
you
referred
to.
E
Well,
and
in
fact
some
we
have
engineers
in
the
neighborhood
and
and
phds
that
work
in
these
areas,
and
they
say
you
have
to
go
to
the
highest
elevation
in
the
neighborhood
and
survey,
and
the
great
thing
is
that
the
equipment
has
changed
over
time
and
apparently
the
city
has
the
gps
equipment
needed,
and
it's
you
know
for
the
areas
that
have
ditches.
It
would
be
just
a
few
days
of
work
to
do
these
surveys
of
of
the
different
elevations
to
know
what
we
need
and
what
we're
working
with.
G
You
know
and-
and
I
think
that's
fair
comment-
I've
certainly
seen
situations
in
my
word
where,
where
one
house
is
addressed
and
then
two
houses
down,
there's
a
problem
and-
and
you
know
it
just-
it-
just
moves
the
problem
rather
than
necessarily
fixing
the
problem,
the
staff
presentation
did
refer
to
and
you've.
Obviously,
you
listened
to
that
and
you've
looked
at
the
report
quite
closely.
The
staff
presentation
I'll
be
asking
staff
about
this
talked
about
the
need
to
have
neighbor
buy-in.
G
E
Shouldn't
have
to
solve
all
these
problems,
but
to
answer
your
question
directly,
we
need
to
look
at
the
system
right,
so
the
water
flows,
from
with
gravity's
help
down
the
street
and
around
to
the
next
street,
and
you
know
it's
actually
centering
into
one
spot
in
our
neighborhood
and
we're
actually
even
finding
that
neighboring
neighborhoods
are
being
affected
and
backing
up
into
our
neighborhood
as
well.
So
you
know
this
isn't
just
oh
a
development's
coming
in.
Let's
notify
the
neighbors
it
to
me.
That's
too
late.
E
We've
been
identifying
this
problem
for
years
now
and
we
need
this
isn't
a
lot
of
investment
to
solve
a
problem
with
data.
So
let's
get
the
data
on
the
problems
with
the
elevations
and
the
lack
of
maintenance,
and
let's
solve
this
before
a
developer
comes
in
and
tries
to.
You
know
patch
work,
one
lot
at
a
time.
H
E
Well,
I
think
we've
had
a
very
high
engagement
over
the
last
two
years.
I
mean-
and
I
think
what's
what's
really
scary
about
this,
and
it's
a
bit
draconian
is
that
you
know
people
are
fearful
that
you
know
they're
gonna
get
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
fine
and
they're
gonna
have
to
have
their
their
front
lawns,
dug
up
and
reditched
to
really
steep
steep
dangerous
levels,
which
is
what
we've
seen
recently.
E
We
do
feel
the
city
has
a
responsibility
to
ditches
that
have
not
been
maintained
over
72
years
and
so
to
have
one.
You
know
we're
really
starting
to
talk
about
long-term
affordability
of
housing,
whether
it's
your
insurance
to
after
a
flood
occurs
or
if
it's
solving
a
ditch
with
a
really
big
expense.
So
you
know
we
think
that
there's
a
community-based
solution
here
that
could
be
shared.
You
know,
like
the
lead,
pipe
replacements,
you
know
what,
if
we
looked
at
drainage
from
backyards
to
front.
E
H
E
A
It's
just
a
question
for
community.
We
have
two
delegations
from
the
exact
same
community
and
it
looks
like
their
presentations
likely
might
go
together.
Did
you
want
to
hold
off
on
on
some
more
questions
just
to
miss
costello
and
then
actually
hear
from
ms
anderson?
And
if
we
have
questions,
we
can
keep
elizabeth
and
elizabeth
both
here
so
that
we
can
just
do
questions
and
then
they
can
choose
who
answers?
Is
that
easier
for
everyone?
Just
so
that
we
don't
end
up
going
through
it
all
together?
B
I
I
Okay,
I'm
just
going
to
go
back
to
the
beginning,
all
right.
This
is
I'm
here
to
provide
some
different
context
to
the
the
things
that
elizabeth
costello
has
already
brought
to
your
attention.
So
I'm
also
talking
about
chara,
I'm
going
to
be
speaking
mostly
to
cortland
park,
which
is
these
two
little
areas
in
yellow
which
sort
of
straddle
prince
of
wales
drive
just
to
the
south
of
baseline
and
heron
roads,
and
they
are
the
main
area
where
we
still
have
ditches.
I
The
1973
study
that
was,
that
formed
the
basis
of
our
secondary
plan,
where
it
was
determined
that
the
areas
marked
as
ld
for
low
density
shown
in
this
little
hand-drawn
map
were
inappropriate
for
medium
to
high
density
redevelopment
because
they
lacked
the
stormwater
management
infrastructure
to
successfully
support
it
fast,
forwarding
to
2022
the
sewers
and
ditches
and
so
on
have
not
been
rebuilt.
The
city
can't
even
find
the
original
engineering
reports,
but
is
now
claiming
that
the
sewers
no
no
longer
need
rebuilding,
that's
an
assumption.
It
might
be
valid.
I
And
what
I
mean
by
that
is
loss
of
functionality.
We
have
ditches
that
are
filled
in
naturally
culverts
that
have
heaved
private
culverts
that
have
heaved
public
culverts
that
have
heaved
culverts
and
catch
basins
that
have
been
buried
by
slow
infill
into
the
ditches,
some
of
which
are
disintegrating
and
at
risk
of
catastrophic
failure.
Under
our
streets
and
sinkholes
associated
with
loss
of
positive
drainage
occurring
along
major
sections
of
the
ditch
system,
we've
started
to
get
some
restoration
work
done,
but
only
because
you
know
we've
made
such
pests
of
ourselves.
I
This
feels
like
a
double
standard,
that
that
is
discriminatory
to
our
health
and
safety
to
us.
So
let's
put
some
detail
on
this.
What
we
feel
is
that
the
disalteration
policy-
it's
actually
a
really
good
policy.
We
like
it
as
far
as
it
goes,
but
what
concerns
us
is
not
what's
in
it.
What
concerns
us
is
the
gaps.
I
So
we
finally
got
the
city
to
do
something
about
it,
but
what
they
did
was
they
replaced
our
flood
risk
with
a
public
safety
hazard,
so
the
restored
ditch
is
four
feet
deep.
It's
got
a
one
to
one
degree
slope.
The
slope
starts
too
close
to
the
pavement,
which
you
can
see
here
and
there's
the
beginnings
of
some
erosion
on
the
side
of
it.
I
The
dirt
is
washing
into
the
ditch
filling
it
in
and
blocking
the
culvert,
and
this
is
all
because
the
ditch
was
set
too
steep
to
begin
with
and
there's
erosion,
particularly
back
in
in
this
direction,
and
I'm
I'm
trying
to
show
something
here,
I'm
not
sure
if
I've
succeeded,
but
I'm
standing
with
my
pole
on
the
ground
right
here
and
about
three
inches
away.
I've
stuck
a
second
pole
showing
where
the
ground
level
is
three
inches
away,
and
it's
about
a
half
a
meter
down.
There's
a
vertical
drop
there
that
is
hidden
by
the
grass.
I
This
is
quite
hazardous.
Furthermore,
this
is
an
erosional
channel
that
is
going
backwards
towards
the
road
and
it
will
be
undercutting
the
road
could
be
the
summer.
If
we
have
a
big
rain.
Could
be
next
spring
or
the
spring
after
it's
coming
pretty
soon,
and
I
just
wanna
and
it's
a
big
concern
we
every
year.
This
is
what
this
street
corner
looks
like
during
the
greek
festival.
This
is
from
a
different
perspective.
The
ditch
erosion
I
was
showing
you
was
right
here.
I
I
Ditch
the
risk
of
injury
to
those
visitors
exiting
their
cars
from
the
passenger
side
is
non-trivial
or
trying
to
re-enter
their
cars
from
the
passenger
side
is
non-trivial,
but
when
we
asked
about
the
potential
liability
of
the
city,
if
injury
were
to
occur
in
these
ditches
through
through
pedestrians
falling
in
or
a
car
accident,
we've
had
t-boning
accidents
on
this
street,
where
we're
we're
we're
open
like
a
sieve
to
major
arterial,
roads
or
or
through
a
homeowner,
injuring
themselves.
Trying
to
maintain
the
stitch.
Would
the
city
have
any
liability?
I
The
comment
and
and
the
answer
and
the
answer
to
a
question
about
liability
was
the
city
encourages
us
to
call
311..
I
assure
you
we
have
had
multiple
calls
to
311
starting
at
the
latest
last
year.
Nothing
has
been
done,
so
I'm
bringing
the
question
forward
again
and
I'm
going
to
ask
again
for
a
bit
more
a
clearer
answer,
and
I
just
want
to
mention
I'm
done
with
my
my.
I
Charmaine
suggested
that
this
should
be
perhaps
posed
to
the
legal
department
in
the
city,
and
I
wonder
if
it,
if
that
part
of
the
asked
sort
of
got
dropped-
and
maybe
someone
bylaw
answered
this
question,
so
I'm
going
to
ask
that
maybe
you
actually
send
this
to
the
legal
department
with
enough
background
and
enough
about
our
concerns
about
regulatory
gaps,
standards
and
safety
gaps
to
to
have
a
clearer
and
more
fulsome
answer
now.
Do
you
want
me
to
stop
sharing
or
keep
the
slides
up?
Yeah.
A
A
These
two
constituents
could
have
been
describing
crown
golf
and
yacht
club
in
in
in
my
community,
where
we've
had
this
issue
and
we
actually
did
go
out,
and
I
spent
about
fifteen
thousand
dollars
for
my
office
budget
to
hire
a
surveyor
to
go
out
and
survey
the
ditches
and
we
found
a
lot
of
issues.
The
issue
is,
then,
what
do
you
do
with
that
data
and
who's
who's,
responsible
and
who's
responsible
for
what
and
who
should
pay?
A
A
A
So
if
we
keep
questions
high
level,
I
think
if
you
have
questions
that
you
still
the
answers
to
from
a
biola
legal
perspective,
I
know
council
blockington,
I'm
sure
will
follow
up
on
that
to
make
sure
that
you
have
the
answers
to
your
questions
regardless,
if,
if
they
are
the
answers
that
maybe
you
you
want
or
don't
want,
but
make
sure
that
we
get
the
answers
to
you
and
I'm
sure
cancer
brock
will
follow
up
on
that.
So
we'll
go
back
to
questions
to
the
delegation
so
we'll
go
to
counselor
meehan.
D
Thank
you
chair,
I'm
not
sure
I
really
have
a
question
per
se
because
I
do
understand
the
issue
I'm
dealing
with
a
neighborhood.
Actually
that's
experiencing
the
same
thing,
and
I
can
tell
you
from
you
know
from
my
viewpoint,
dealing
with
all
the
various
departments
has
been
an
ongoing
challenge,
so
this
being
siloed,
I
think
if
we
could
find
a
standard
policy
that
maybe
if
we
had
a
caveat
that
there
was
a
each
community,
because
every
community
is
different,
the
issue
is
the
same,
but
every
community
is
different.
D
I've
not
seen
infills,
but
I
can
see
how
infills
would
really
contribute
to
this
problem,
but
I
have
collapsed
culverts.
I
have
you
know,
standing
water
because
there
hasn't
been
a
policy.
Every
neighbor
has,
you
know,
modified
their
ditch
in
a
way,
but
now
I've
got
I've
got
little
rivers
on
each
every
side
of
a
street
with
bull
bushes
coming
up,
people
don't
know
who's
supposed
to
maintain
it.
The
neighbor's
driveway
is
collapsing.
D
This
is
an
ongoing
issue,
but
I've
been
dealing
with
this
for
four
years
and
nobody
seems
to
want
to
take
responsibility
for
for
for
this
neighborhood
and
it.
This
is
a
neighborhood
that
goes
back
to
the
former
city
of
gloucester.
So
if
there
was
a
way
to
make
a
standardized
policy
because,
like
a
river,
if
a
river
there's
a
dry
bed
in
the
middle,
it's
higher,
it's
there's
going
to
be
standing
water.
We
don't
want
that.
My
ditches
are,
some
of
them
are
five
feet
and
there
are
little
children
in
a
neighborhood.
D
So
this
pose
is
a
real
safety
hazard.
So
I
would
love
to
see
a
standardized
policy
that
could
be
tailored
to
a
specific
neighborhood
and
I
do
believe
we
have
the
expertise
that
can
do
that,
how
it's
paid
for
that's
another
issue,
because
it
is
a
costly
problem.
So,
but
I
think
the
first
thing
we
have
to
do
is
is
to
come
up
with
a
policy
that
that
we
can
apply
to
a
specific
neighborhood,
because
everyone
is
different.
D
A
Thank
you
yeah,
it's
certain!
It's
not
always
it's
not
just
the
city
too.
I
mean
it's
the
you
you
take
one
ditch
infill,
so
you
fill
in
one,
ditch
you're
fine!
Maybe
you
fill
in
the
second
one
you're
fine.
At
what
point
do
you
fill
in
consecutive
ditches,
where
now
you
have
a
storm
sewer,
as
defined
by
the
provincial
ministry
of
environment?
Now
you
have
a
whole
different,
a
whole
different
scenario
and
you
have
a
whole
different
situation.
When
it
comes
to
regulation
and
approvals,
I
know
we
we
had
to.
A
I
wanted
to
put
a
sidewalk
sidewalk
on
the
side
of
a
road.
It
has
an
open,
ditch
we
had
to
go
through.
We
had
a
delay
in
the
project
which
was
six
or
eight
months.
What
that
did
was
it
bought
us
the
time
to
then
go
and
design
a
storm,
a
relief
valve
essentially
under
the
sidewalk
to
get
through.
We
couldn't
just
put
in
a
sidewalk
on
a
railroad.
I
know
that's
one
of
the
biggest
misnomers
that
we
have
in
the
rural
areas.
Why
don't
we
have
sidewalks
on
royal
streets?
It's
just
not
that
simple.
A
A
I
J
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
thank
you
very
much
for
your
presentations,
elizabeth
and
elizabeth.
They
were
excellent
and,
as
my
colleagues
pointed
out,
you
know,
I
do
see
many
of
the
same
problems
in
my
award
that
you
illustrated,
even
though
the
situations
differ.
So
one
of
my
questions
is
going
to
be
for
you,
elizabeth
costello
was
when
you
talk
about
finding
solutions.
Do
you
have
any
suggestions
or
omissions
that
you
saw
in
the
policy?
E
Well,
you
know,
I
think
what
our
community
is
hoping
for,
is
that
we
we
do
have
greater
standards
that
don't
rely
on
a
1950s
design.
That's
number
one.
We
have
clear
roles
and
responsibilities
that
require
a
systems
approach
and
that
that
crosses
departments
and
doesn't
just
land
in
3-1-1
or
our
site
plan
control
like
we
need
to
be
communicating,
and-
and
thirdly
like
it's,
I
hear
a
lot
about
expense
and
where
does
expense
go?
I
mean
people
are
interested
in
upkeeping.
Their
properties.
E
So
you
know
we
looking
at
it
lot
by
lot,
we're
actually
going
to
overburden
developers
just
as
much
as
we're
going
to
be
overburdening
residents
and
the
city.
It's
it's.
It's
just
not
a
good
way,
so
we
have
to
delay
this
until
we
can
get
more
coordination
and
collaboration
in
in
the
policy
with
the
standards
that
are
for
today
with
climate
change,
with
lower
capacities
right.
J
Yeah,
no,
I
mean
that
was
my
next
question
in
terms
of
breaking
down
silos
within
the
bureaucracy.
I
think
that's
a
really
good
point
and
I
was
going
to
ask
as
a
resident
what's
been
your
experience
in
confronting
that
challenge?
Is
it
through
3-1-1,
because
as
a
counselor,
it
really
does
feel
like
residents,
have
no
choice
but
to
involve
their
counselor?
Who
then,
has
the
ability
to
bring
multiple
departments
together
to
figure
out
a
problem
which,
in
some
cases
has
been
you
know
going
on
for
years?.
E
So
we
we've
been
quite
noisy
on
these
issues
and
we've
dealt
through
3-1-1
we've
dealt
through
specific
departments,
we've
dealt
with
our
counselor
we've
dealt
through
the
manager.
We've
been
very
active
at
both
the
public
consultations
and
dedicated
neighborhood
consultations,
email
telephone
calls
and
the
conclusion
that
we
found
in
the
as
we
heard
it
report
is
no
suggestions
were
made
from
us
this
policy.
E
I
cannot
believe
that
that
was
written
down,
so
there
has
to
be
a
better
way
and
to
deny
that
there's
a
problem
and
to
put
a
policy
that
just
says
what
we're
doing
today
is
good
enough
is
not
good
enough
for
the
future.
It's
not
good
enough
for
the
residents
of
ottawa
or
you
know
the
people
that
build
whoever
they
may
be.
So
this
is
just
not
good
enough.
We
have
to
ask
more
of
our
staff
to
create
a
policy
that
will
help.
J
K
Thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
very
much,
miss
costello,
ms
anderson.
I
appreciated
it
very
much
and
and
as
the
chair
said,
the
pictures
you
showed
the
comments
you've
given
could
be
everywhere.
Those
pictures
they
could
come
from,
altavist
award,
you've
summarized
you've
explained
it
well,
and
I
appreciate
it.
K
You've
touched
a
lot
on
developers
when
there's
a
development,
a
change
but
also
with
respect
to
the
community
like
like,
like
yours
in
in
my
community,
approximately
65,
70
years
old
and
and
that
infrastructure
is
getting
old.
My
one
specific
question
for
you
and
I
think
it
relates
to
the
entire
city.
K
That,
too,
is
an
issue.
I
have
found
that
in
my
community-
and
I
just
wanted
you
to
confirm
or
or
comment
or
provide
any
any
recommendations
you
have
on
how
we
should
be
dealing
with
that
with
respect
to
the
backyard's
easement
that
may
be
city
property,
that
may
be
an
easement
or
that
may
be
just
a
budding
between
two
neighbors.
Have
you
had
that
experience.
E
Yes
and
I
I've
I've,
there's
a
bit
of
brainstorming,
we
were
doing
and-
and
I
feel
I'm
going
a
little
bit
off
script
from
all
my
residents,
so
I
don't
want
to
speak
to
say,
confirm
I'd
like
to
bring
it
back,
but
I
will
say
that
we
do
have
improv
impermeable
soil
conditions
or
clay
inside,
and
so
we
do
have
lakes
in
backyards
and
people
trying
to
sump
pump
it
out
or
push
it
out
to
the
front.
And
so
there
is
a
call
from
some
residents.
E
E
You
know
where
we
could
start
activating
improvements
with
participation
on
a
volunteer
basis,
but
I
mean
I'm
going
off
script
from
my
residence.
I
know
the
residents
are
have
raised
the
issues
and
would
like
the
surveys
done,
and
you
know
again,
ongoing
collaboration
is
needed.
I
wouldn't
want
to
speak
on
them
on
the
exact
solution,
but
I
think
there's
a
potential
there,
and
so
I,
hopefully
that
gives
you
some
encouragement
and
hope.
E
Course,
of
course,
anytime
yeah,
every
time,
there's
interruptions
and
and
ponds.
You
know
impromptu
ponds
and
standing
water.
It
impacts
neighboring
problem,
neighboring
properties.
You
know
if,
upstream
you
know,
gravity
water
flows
with
gravity's
help
in
these
systems
and
if,
if
you're
interrupting
that
grade
and
getting
pools,
you
know
neighbors
are
affected.
It's
just
part.
It's
interconnected,
interdependent
yeah,.
K
L
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
to
ms
costello
and
miss
anderson
for
coming
out
today
and
giving
us
your
time.
You've
obviously
spent
a
lot
of
work
on
it
and
and
it's
for
the
whole
community.
So
I
really
appreciate
you
doing
this.
One
of
the
the
issues
is
that
we're
dealing.
We
have
to
deal
property
by
property
because
that's
that's
how
you
talk
to
property
owners,
but
it's
not.
L
Let's
put
it
that
way,
the
maintenance
there
is
a
real
lack
of
knowledge
of
of
of
of
how
water,
where
water
is
flowing
to
or
not
flowing
because
of
what's
been
done
on
one
particular
property,
and
I
just
want
to
get
away
from
the
blame
game,
but
I
just
wanted
to
work
together
and
and
have
the
water
flow
where
it
should
be.
I
appreciate
you
talking
about
looking
for
the
you
know
the
points
of
gravity.
I
just
want
to
get
your
comments
on
possible,
possibly
looking
at
it.
That
way.
L
E
E
E
I
Yeah,
what
I
would
say
about
that
is
you're
still
focusing
on
ditches
that
are
altered
by
home
owners,
but
ditches
are
also
altered
naturally
over
time
and
so
in
older,
ditch
systems,
the
amount
and
the
degradation
and
the
the
potential
problems
associated
with
that
natural
alteration
may
be
far
worse
than
anything.
Homeowners
have
done
that
because,
for
one
thing,
homeowner
alterations
are
local
and
the
the
system-wide
degradation
is
pervasive.
I
Another
thing
is
because
the
ditch
system,
the
city,
hasn't,
maintained
our
ditches.
They
are
a
full
foot
shallower
than
when
they
were
put
in,
except
for
the
places
where
sinkholes
have
developed,
which
means
you
know:
we've
got
like
hills
instead
of
streams,
and
so
say
a
homeowner
put
in
a
new
driveway
30
years
ago.
Maybe
the
ditch
was
eight
inches
lower
than
it
is
now
and
then
five
years
ago,
another
homeowner
wanted
to
put
to
replace
their
driveway.
Where
do
they
set
that
culvert?
I
Do
they
set
it
to
the
original
depth,
in
which
case
it
would
be
buried
and
subject
to
immediate
frost
heaving,
or
do
they
set
it
to
the
filled
in
ditch,
which
is
eight
inches
shallower?
That
happens.
It's
inadvertent
and
it's
not
something
the
homeowner's
done.
It's
a
mistake
caused
by
the
fact
that
the
city
is
not
maintaining
the
proper
depth
of
the
ditches
in
the
first
place.
I
L
E
Yeah,
if
I
can
just
quickly
build
on
that,
we
have
a
situation
where,
if
we
look
exclusively
at
lexington
avenue
and
the
way
water
flows,
lexington
has
to
flow
into
wilshire.
So
if
lexington
doesn't
flow
properly
into
wilshire,
the
water
won't
end
up
at
morley
in
sanford,
which
the
system
dictates
will.
Where
will
it
go?
It
will
be
in
the
street
where
it
will
undercut
the
road.
L
B
L
G
I
G
I
Yep,
I
I
think
so
I
think
some
people
have
tried
to
cover
their
ditches
because
they
feel
unsafe
mowing
them,
for
example,
and
they've,
some
people
have
altered
their
ditches
and
and
they've
they've
put
big
pipes
and
they've
got
clean
outs
on
both
ends
and
there's
never
any
issues.
I
don't
know.
I
don't
know
whether
this
was
legal,
but
if
there's
no
issues,
then
it's
great
and
it's
also
safer
for
the
homeowner
to
maintain
and
so
maintenance
is
going
to.
Maintenance
will
be
better
if
it's
safer.
I
A
A
Because
why
should
everyone
have
to
pay
for
for
problems
that
are
specific
to
certain
communities?
That's
why
we
have
local
improvements.
So
we
do
that
with
it's
the
same
thing,
so
you
don't
have
to
put
your
both
hands
up.
I
got
you.
I
can
see
you
without
maintenance,
but
if
you
could
just
let
me
so,
you
have
a
general
issue
that
maybe
isn't
solved
by
maintenance,
because
you
you're
asking
about
you
want
them
maintained,
but
you
don't
want
them
too
steep
so
and
it's
possible.
A
The
original
grade
that
they
were
at
is
not
the
right
grade.
So
you
need
to
look
at
that
holistically
in
the
entire
community,
but
why
should
a
taxpayer
in
a
condo
building
on
on
wellington
pay
for
that
or
why
should?
Why?
Should
someone
in
vernon
ontario
pay?
For
that
again,
I
can
see
you
elizabeth.
I
don't
need
you
both
hands
up.
I
I
will
let
you
speak,
I'm
not
really
asking
a
question,
but
it's
just
when
water
service
was
brought
to
manatec
the
village
of
manchester
paid
for
it
through
a
local
improvement.
A
It
was
a
benefit
to
the
community
to
the
local
community.
That's
why
manchester
paid
for
it,
so
they
didn't
burden
the
rest
of
taxpayers,
the
city
of
ottawa,
to
bring
them
water
service.
Did
they
need
it?
Some
some
did
some
didn't.
Some
people
just
wanted
to
just
switch
off
from
from
wells
to
to
a
more
reliable
something
they
don't
have
to
worry
about
every
every
so
often
same
with
septic
systems
and
sewers
in
that
and
making
that
switch.
That's
that's
a
local
improvement
and
that's
why
we
have
that
policy.
A
You
can
go
look
at
other.
Other
policies
goes
back
to
the
1980s
at
kemp
park,
same
thing
they
brought
in
water
years
ago,
and
it
was
paid
for
by
the
residents
in
camp
park.
So
I
think
if
you
want
a
solution,
the
question
seems
to
be:
you
possibly
have
an
avenue
for
a
solution,
but
you
don't
like
the
mechanism
in
which
you'd
have
to
pay
something
for
it.
I
A
I
A
I
Talking
about
doing
whatever
is
required
at
the
end
of
this
life
of
these,
this
ditch
system
to
ensure
to
ensure
that
they
are
renovated,
while
remaining
their
functionality
and
ensuring
our
safety,
whether
that
involves
some,
it
doesn't
necessarily
involve
sewer
systems.
I
don't
there's
no
case,
I
I
don't
think,
there's
any
case
to
be
made
that
anyone
needs
to
come
in
and
rip
up
our
streets
and
give
us
a
community-wide
system
of
sewers.
I
It's
not
necessary,
but
there
are
places
here
where
it's
unsafe
and
dysfunctional,
and
I
think
it's
up
to
the
city
to
decide
what
investments
need
to
be
made
to
ensure
that,
when
they're
renovated
by
whatever
means
ensure
the
functionality
and
preserve
our
safety
are
necessary
in
an
urbanizing
environment.
At
the
end
of
the
lifespan
of
the
system,.
I
A
I
don't
want
to
keep
on
going,
I
mean
because
I
I
think
we're
revering
off
topic,
because
ultimately,
your
issue,
in
my
estimation,
is
not
a
disalteration
policy
issue.
You're
upset
about
your
issue
and
you're
concerned
that
it's
not
being
covered
in
this,
but
I
I
I
don't
fully
agree
that,
based
on
the
outcome
that
you
want,
it
falls
under
ditch
alteration
policy.
I'm
gonna
go
to
counselor
brockington,
it's
not
a
debate,
so
I'm
gonna
go
to
catherine.
F
A
A
A
A
lot
of
it
was
the
ditches
were
at
the
wrong
grades,
inverted
culverts
that
happen
over
time.
Again
it
all
comes
down
to
who's
responsible
and
in
reality,
the
the
policies
that
we
have
today
stemming
from
2003
changes,
makes
the
homeowner
responsible
for
the
culvert.
You
know
why
is
the
homeowner's
muscle
culvert,
because
not
everyone
needs
a
culvert,
so
why
should
people
who
don't
need
culverts
have
to
pay
for
people
who
have
culver's?
A
I
get
that
point
I
mean
they
were
there
were
there
was
a
the
policies
previous
to
amalgamation,
so
rito
township
in
rio.
Township.
If
you
wanted
your
covert
replaced,
the
township
would
come
and
replace
your
culvert
in
the
city
and
pn.
It
was
the
same
way,
but
in
other
places
it
wasn't
the
same
way.
It
was
that
you
would
have
it
would
be
your
responsibility.
A
So
after
amalgamation,
the
transition
board
and
the
various
municipalities
that
came
together,
they
generally
took
the
lowest
common
denominator,
which
was
the
easiest
one
to
maintain
long
term,
and
that
was
the
one
that
put
the
responsibility
onto
the
homeowners.
That's
why
I've
been
upset
about
the
ditch
policy
for
years
and
why
we
tried
to
come
up
with
something,
but
every
time
we
do
every
time
we
talk
about
this,
and
I've
been
talking
about
this
for
12
years.
It
was
my
motion
that
brought
forward
this
report
in
the
first
place
back
in
2016..
A
A
You
know
we
I've
seen
people
illegally
fill
in
their
ditches,
they
do
the
proper
swale
they
do
the
catch
base
and
everything's
fine.
I've
also
seen
residents
who
have
walked
through
a
hole
in
their
their
front
yard,
because
the
previous
owner
put
in
a
culvert
it
degraded
over
time
and
now
they're
looking
to
the
city
to
say
well,
come
fix
my
front
ditch
and
my
friend
culvert,
and
then
I
only
get
told
well.
No,
that's
your
responsibility.
A
So
it's
it's
just
not
I'm
not
going
to
say
it's
the
most
complex
issue
I've
dealt
with
because
I
don't
think
we're
going
to
have
a
public
inquiry
on
ditches,
but
but
it
is,
it
is
one
of
the
ones
that
that
is
incredibly
challenging
because
there
just
doesn't
seem
to
be
a
decent
solution.
I
mean
kevin
leemers
on
here,
too
nine
out
of
ten
neighbor
disputes
that
I
deal
with
are
related
to
side,
yard,
rear
yard,
front
yard
drainage,
and
it's
not
always
the
city's
responsibility.
A
F
Thank
you,
chair,
okay,
let's
just
get
straight
into
it
so
to
staff
the
amended
policy
does
not
get
into
maintenance
understanding
policy,
the
sort
of
macro
level
could
staff
just
tell
us:
how
do
we
address
maintenance
going
forward?
One
of
the
delegates
suggested
this
could
possibly
be
a
second
document.
Could
staff
just
touch
upon
this?
Please.
N
N
N
We
would
then
engage
with
our
infrastructure
group
with
peter
mckay
specifically,
and
then
we
would
look
at
what
options
we
have
to
maintain
that
area
when
we
get
into
that.
We
get
into
the
situation
chair
of
again
counselor
the
yacht
club
area
right,
so
we
we
have
multiple
issues,
they
could
be
infills,
they
could
be
natural
silting
in
in
the
diagram
that
was
provided
by
by
the
elizabeth
there.
The
picture
of
the
replace
culvert
so
a
replaced
crossroad
culvert.
N
F
N
In
in
regard
so
chair
in
regards
to
council
brockton
your
question,
so
we
have
our
maintenance
quality
standards
for
ditching.
The
primary
function
of
maintenance
is
to
ensure
the
ditch
is
functioning
as
designed
and
again
that
is
returning
the
ditch
to
its
normal
functioning
capacity
to
drain
the
roadway.
F
N
F
More
intensive
review
that
mr
makai
had
alluded
to
during
the
public
consultations
was
two
years
away
and
in
the
interim,
a
commitment
was
made
to
do
a
visual
assessment
of
the
infrastructure
this
past
spring,
which
is
different
than
the
work
that's
been
committed
to
on
lexington.
So
I'm
looking
for
an
update
in
this
regard.
B
M
H
That's
great,
thank
you,
charmaine
and
through
the
chair
to
answer
the
counselor's
question.
So
certainly
we
started
that
assessment
and
doing
those
walkthroughs
of
the
observations
we
do
need
to
do.
Some
follow-up
work
with
infrastructure
services,
specifically
peter
mckay,
to
have
some
discussions
on
those
observations
and
we'd
be
happy
to
to
come
back
to
you
and
provide
you
with
an
update
shortly
on
our
work
that
we've
been
doing
in
that
community.
F
M
M
Also
to
the
point
in
the
policy
there
is
an
appendix
that
has
all
of
the
who
you
should
be
repo.
You
can
reach
out
to
it's
in
the
appendix
so
things.
If
the
individuals
change,
then
we
can
update
it,
but
it's
very
clearly
laid
out
of
who's
accountable
and
who's
responsible
for
the
different
parts
of
the
ditches.
But
again
we
can
always
do
a
better
job,
communicating
to
our
residents
and
that's
something
we
will
be
doing
and
updating
the
website
with
the
information.
F
Thank
you
I'll
park
it
for
that.
I'd
like
to
work
with
you
on
that,
because
I
think
there
needs
to
be
some
proactive
outreach
in
addition
to
website
upgrade
it's
it's.
Basically,
I
don't
know
if
you
can
insert
it
in
water
bills
or
but
proactively,
go
to
property
owners
that
have
ditches
once
the
policies
been
passed
for
that
information,
but
anyway,
chair
I'll
park.
A
Thanks,
I
know
what
a
challenge
we
face
too.
I
mean
I
could
probably
go
on
for
hours
about
the
challenges
that
we
face
when
it
comes
to
clovers
and
dishes,
but
when
the
original
culvert's
put
in
on
a
laneway,
if
you
apply
for
a
private
approach
and
you
put
in
a
culvert,
it's
your
private
approach,
which
is
again
why
you
pay
for
it.
It's
there's
a
grading,
there's
a
grading
required
now
when
you
go
to
replace
that
culvert.
A
You've
really
provided
no
guidance,
you
just
replace
it
and
it's
it's.
It
confirms
the
issue
of
it
because
you
you
have
you
have
a
you:
have
someone
just
coming
in
you're
placing
a
culvert
at
what
grade?
There's
no
inspection
of
it,
and
it's
I
mean
the
labor
intensiveness
of
of
actually
inspecting
culverts
and
grading,
is
something
that
I
think
township
used
to
do.
But
we
don't
any
morning
it
adds
to
the
problem,
but
it
again
the
solution's.
Just
not
that
simple.
We
have
a.
We
have
a
finite
stormwater
budget.
A
A
You
know
rural
residents
as
a
whole
pay
in
between
two
to
three
million
dollars
a
year
to
storm
water
infrastructure
and
that
one
solution
for
call
guard
yacht
club
would
take
that
entire
annual
budget
doesn't
account
for
the
12
million
dollars
you
spend
annually
to
replace
royal
culverts,
so
yeah.
The
complexities
here
are,
are
immense.
A
We
aren't
going
to
solve
them
all
today
and
two
I
mean
I
know,
we've
there's
been
talk
about
deferral
and
stuff
of
the.
This
is
a
policy
update.
The
policy
exists.
We
don't
necessarily
need
to
defer
anything.
If
we
want
further
refinements.
We
want
more
discussion.
We
can
have
that
discussion.
We
can
provide
direction
to
have
more
in-depth
discussion
about
this
issue.
A
L
Thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
staff
for
preparing
all
this
work.
I
think
it's
important
that
the
conversation
has
started
because
I
remember
in
2018
I
heard
a
lot
going
door-to-door
about
ditches
and
concerns,
and
I
was
ill-prepared
on
how
to
answer
residents
at
that
time.
But
I've
learned
a
lot
since
then
about
them
and
the
fact
that
we're
raising
the
issue
is
really
important.
First
of
all,
they're
they're,
very
environmentally
sound.
L
L
I
found
it
for
myself
and
I
my
concern
is
that
even
if
we
get
to
the
standards
we
want,
I
I
dealing
property
by
property
is
kind
of
divisive
sometimes,
and
it
puts
neighbors
against
neighbors
as
well
and
I'm
concerned
about
that,
but
also
it
does
need
to
be
looked
at
holistically
and
I'm
wondering
if
you're
willing
to
look
at
it.
I
I
suggested
streets,
but
I
was
just
sort
of
really
I
should
have
said
neighborhood.
L
I've
got
like
whole
neighborhoods,
where
the
ditches
are
a
factor
there's
at
least
three
of
them.
In
my
in
my
ward,
one
is
very
significant:
that's
lakeview,
but
there's
two
others
that
still
have
ditches
and
they're
right
in
a
inner
urban
area
which
we
don't
think
of
as
a
ditch
place,
but
they
they're
there.
So
I
I
just
need
that
that
ability
to
have
a
meeting
with
everyone
in
that
neighborhood-
maybe
flyer
it
so
they
can
work
together
on
what
needs
to
be
done
because
there's
so
much.
L
The
the
responses
in
terms
of
the
the
questions
and
answers
that
came
in
were
very
helpful,
because
these
are
typical
questions.
I
I
hear-
and
I
appreciate
getting
those
answers,
but
my
other
concern
is
is
staffing
because
we're
talking
about
not
just
this
year
but
every
year,
who's
gonna
make
sure
that
it's
still
going
well.
L
It
only
takes
a
couple
of
years
for
things
to
get
get
out
of
whack.
If
somebody
doesn't
keep
it
keep
up
their
end
because
it
could
just
be
you
know
for
not
trying
or
not
knowing.
So
how
do
we
get
past
that?
Because
I
don't
it
says,
no
financial
implications
and
I
just
can't
see
that
I
think
we
have
to
spend
money
on
maintaining,
not
just
maintaining,
but
I
mean
to
monitoring.
M
O
Good
morning,
chair
so
currently,
the
city
is
undertaking
four
neighborhoods
for
ditch
studies.
These
have
been
identified
previously,
based
on
a
very
poor
level
of
service.
Some
of
them
are
subject
to
intensification.
Some
of
them
are
not,
but
the
studies
that
we
do
are
very
comprehensive
and
that
we
have
to
look
at
all
of
the
ditch
issues
within
the
neighborhood
and
we
need
to
look
outside
the
neighborhoods
as
well.
O
The
first
thing
we
need
to
look
at
in
the
ditch
study
is
the
downstream
capacity
where
we're
discharging
storm
water,
so
that
has
to
have
sufficient
capacity
for
the
storm
water
from
the
neighborhood
and
be
able
to
accept.
You
know
the
the
flows
from
the
neighborhood.
When
we
look
at
the
studies
we
look
at
as
the
residents
from
cortland
park
mentioned,
we
do
look
at
grades
of
the
ditches,
but
that's
only
really
one
issue
that
we
look
at.
We
look
at
the
capacity
of
all
of
the
culverts.
O
We
look
at
the
capacity
of
the
outlets
and
we
also
look
at
the
different
types
of
rainfall
events
and
the
frequency
of
the
larger
stormfall
events
to
ensure
that
we
can
maintain
a
proper
level
of
service.
These
are
long-term
studies
that
will
take
several
years
to
remedy
these
ditch
neighborhoods.
This
can't
be
fixed
overnight
so
in
year
one
we
do
a
study,
then
we
have
to
initiate
a
capital
project,
and
that
goes
through
the
normal
design
and
construction
process.
O
L
Thank
you,
and
can
you
talk
about
how
we're
educating
people
more
as
councillor
rockington
put
out?
What
can
we
do
to
better
inform
people
of
what
they're
supposed
to
do
in
terms
of
maintaining
it,
because
I
don't
think
it's
getting
through
and
I'm
I'm
willing
to
have
information
sessions
for
sure
specific
to
like
a
neighborhood
so
that
people
really
understand
their
neighborhood?
Is
that
possible.
O
Through
the
chair,
yeah,
definitely
that's
possible
for
the
neighborhoods
that
we
are
undertaking
studies.
We
are
planning
a
public
consultation
process
through
to
advise
them
of
what
our
findings
are
to
solicit
feedback
from
the
residents
to
see
what
the
issues
are
and
provide
guidance
to
residents
about.
You
know
what
can
be
done
to
properly
maintain
these
systems
going
forward.
O
Even
simple
things
like
planting
the
ditch
can
cause
some
issues
and
ensuring
that
culvert
entrances
are
free
and
clear
are
just
simple
things.
Now
there
are,
you
know
environmental
conditions
such
as
snow
and
ice
that
are
challenging
for
operational
staff
to
address.
So
you
know
these
things.
We
can
certainly
advise
residents
on.
L
Thank
you,
yeah.
No,
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
have
sort
of
a
sheet
of
of
do's
and
don'ts,
perhaps
or
something
along
that
line
just
on
basics
of
of
of
ditches,
because
I
I
there's
so
much
that
can
be
like
you
said,
they're
fairly
straightforward,
but
most
people
are
not
aware
that
I
can.
I
can
give
to
communities
just
a
one
sheet,
if
that's
possible,
could
that
be
done
at
communication
on
just
do's
and
don'ts.
M
J
K
Thank
you
vice
chair,
and,
and
thank
you
all
for
for
the
presentation
you
know.
Alphys
has
a
lot
of
ditches
and
culverts
and
many
in
need
of
repair,
because
our
community's
70
years
old
and,
let
me
say
peter
mckay,
thank
you
and
you
and
your
colleagues
who
have
assisted
me
over
the
past
eight
years
in
addressing
some
of
these
issues.
K
K
The
city
is
obligated
to
maintain
the
system
to
function
as
it
was
designed,
and
so,
but
we
we
also
hear
that
it's
up
to
the
property
owner
to
maintain
the
ditches-
and
we
know
there
is
a
lack
of
transfer
of
ownership-
is
an
issue
lack
of
economic
ability
to
maintain
the
ditch
lack
of
elderly
persons,
who
might
not
be
able
to
maintain
the
ditch
lack
of
understanding,
how
it
impacts,
neighbors
or
the
the
system
as
a
whole.
And
so
thank
you
charmaine
and
councillor
kavanaugh.
K
H
K
Noted
my
real
question
is
in
an
urban
environment
and-
and
I
recognize
rural,
the
report
deals
with
both
rural
and
urban.
We
do
not
pay
anywhere
near
that
much
on
a
pro-rated
basis
to
maintain
ditches
in
in
a
in
a
ward
like
alta
vista.
I
don't
need
the
number,
but
I
think
that's
correct,
but
they
do
the
same
job,
and
so
our
the
expectation
of
our
residents
with
respect
to
sewers
with
respect
to
ditches
would
be,
I
think,
would
be
that
that
the
city
might
also
pay.
K
H
H
We
do
partner
with
our
colleagues
and
infrastructure
services
to
undertake
those
condition
assessments
to
determine
what
is
the
best
approach
with
regards
to
addressing
the
overarching
maintenance
issues
that
may
exist
within
a
community
so
really
depends
on
the
situation
and
the
issues
at
hand
counselor
as
to
the
approach
that
we
take,
but
most
certainly,
if
it's
broader
or
expands
across
kind
of
multiple,
multiple
properties
or
it
affects
the
larger
conveyance
system
of
the
stormwater.
We
would
engage
our
partners
in
infrastructure
services
to
address
the
situation
and
undertake
a
review.
K
And
we
need
to
be
very
clear
to
residents
with
ditches
and
culverts
at
their
on
their
prop,
not
on
their
properties
on
city
property,
but
adjacent
to
their
property
at
their
property
lines.
What
the
expectations
are
of
them
are
residents
required
to
cover
the
costs
of
reinstating,
repairing
those
ditches
and
and
culverts
that
are
adjacent
to
their
property
lines.
H
Through
the
chair
most
certainly
counselor,
they
are
responsible
if
it
is
on
their
personal
property
or
private
property.
They
are
responsible
for
undertaking
the
repair
to
those
culverts
or
maintaining
the
ditch.
However,
if
it's
on
city,
property
or
public
property,
it
would
become
a
maintenance
issue
for
the
city
to
address.
K
A
So
maintain
there's
two
different
types
of
maintain
right,
so
there's
maintained
from
just
the
the
aesthetic
maintenance
of
a
ditch,
so
cutting
the
lawn.
But
the
grade
of
the
ditch
and
the
maintenance
of
the
grade
is
not
the
home
responsibility,
that's
the
city,
so
you
got
to
make
sure
that
we're
qualifying
the
word
maintained
properly.
K
Okay,
thank
you
chair.
I
I
appreciate
that
and
and
yes,
you're
right
and
the
the
delegations
addressed
the
the
safety
issue
and
the
debt,
the
the
the
slope
and
mowing
that
and
how
that
and
how
that
functions,
and
so
there
is
the
issue
of
the
long-term
cost,
long-term
liability
at
cost
to
the
city
of
of
an
improperly
maintained,
ditch
or
or
culvert,
and
as
that
maintenance
might
not
be
done
properly
as
defined
by
the
chair,
and
thank
you
for
that.
K
K
M
P
Thank
you
charmaine
sir,
you
did
say
kevin
right.
Sorry,
I
missed
that.
Okay,
thank
you
counselor
through
the
chair
absolutely-
and
I
was
just
going
to
add
to
this-
that
we
have
updated
our
knowledge-based
article
for
one
about
a
lot
of
these
common
questions.
We've
been
getting
because
people
do
get
sometimes
frustrated
calling
through
on
one
and
which
group
is
being
delivered
to
so
provided
we
have
the
information
we
need.
P
You
know,
indicated
to
our
team
in
the
inspection
team
and
we'll
work
with
biolog
to
get
those
resolved
if
it's
strictly
a
maintenance
type
as
what
the
presenters
were
talking
about
earlier,
where
standing
water
or
the
water
is
ponding
and
it
doesn't
seem
to
be
outletting
or
draining,
then
we
would
work
with
quentin's
team.
Basically,
it
would
be
usually
dispatched
to
road
operations.
They
would
do
that
review
and
assessment
to
try
and
determine
what
the
problem
is
is.
Is
it
because
somebody
isn't
cutting
their
grass?
Is
it
because
to
counsel
from
office
point?
P
Has
somebody?
Is
the
grating
itself
not
working
where
there's
a
high
point
and
all
the
water
is
just
ponding
and
it's
actually
nothing
going
down
the
downstream
culvert
or
is
it
three
lots
over
because
something's
happened
at
three
lots
over
so
depending
on
that
the
findings
of
that?
Usually
it's
our
road
maintenance
team
that
would
go
out
and
correct
me
from
brighton,
but
they
would
look
to
see
what
that
particular
issue
is
and
then
follow
up
with
the
appropriate
team.
P
If
it's
somebody
that
did
do
it's
a
bylaw
issue,
property
standards,
for
example,
if
it's
somebody
that
did
a
ditch
illegal,
ditch
infill
that
would
come
to
our
inspection
and
we
would
we're
gonna
buy
a
lot
to
get
that
result
or,
for
example,
if
it's
a
larger
network
issue,
that's
what
we'd
reach
out
to
our
colleagues
in
asset
management
to
see
okay.
Now
we
need
to
look
at
this
because
there
might
be
a
larger
problem
here.
That
seems
to
be
happening
in
the
network.
Does
that
answer
a
question
counselor.
K
It
does
it
does
it.
It
is
the
simple-
and
this
is
my
final
question
comment.
You
know:
if
someone
elderly
person's
not
able
to
do
maintenance
for
whatever
reason
steepness
of
the
slope
accessibility,
age,
economics,
how
can
how
will
we
be
able
to
ensure
that
their
property
is
maintained,
the
ditch
in
front
of
their
properties
maintain
to
the
standard
we're
asking
of
them
for
the
benefit
of
the
entire
community
because
it
just
reaches
out
and
it
impacts
the
other
neighbors
and
very
often
as
counselors?
K
I
don't
know
if
my
colleagues
it's
their
experience,
we
get.
We
get
that
those
calls.
You
know
my
neighbor
is
not
maintaining
the
ditch
and
it's
impacting
my
property,
and
what
can
you
do
about
it
and
that's
the
reality
of
of
the
the
post
community
we
live,
we
live
in
and
the
how
the
system
is
interrelated
and
it
the
water
has
to
go
somewhere.
K
A
G
Sorry,
thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
have
to
say
I'm
I'm
struggling
this
morning.
I
I've
had
three
separate
thoughts,
one
to
dissent
on
on
the
report,
two
to
defer
the
report
for
more
information,
three
to
provide
some
sort
of
direction
to
staff,
so
we
have
more
contacts
before
we
vote
on
it
and
full
of
counsel.
G
You
know
counselor
couture
referred
to
it
as
the
elephant
in
the
room,
I'm
having
a
very
difficult
time.
Looking
at
this
issue
in
a
vacuum,
I
can't
help
but
feel
that
if
there
was
a
better
understanding
of
the
maintenance
program,
a
better
enforcement
of
the
maintenance
program,
more
regular
maintenance
just
writ
large
that
there
would
be
less
issues
around
alterations.
G
There
would
be
less
complaints
to
counselors
offices,
there'll
be
less
complaints
to
3-1-1.
So
I
I
really
struggle
with
with
dealing
with
one,
but
not
with
the
other,
though
I
understand
what
the
report
what
the
report
speaks
to,
but
because
of
the
what
the
report
does
speak
to,
I
don't
think
it
actually
addresses
the
problem
at
least
not
addresses
it
in
its
in
its
entirety.
G
So
what
I'm
wondering
is?
Is
staff
able
between
now
and
when
we
do
vote
on
this
and
council
provide
some
sort
of
a
memo
to
all
a
council
that
speaks
to
the
existing
maintenance
program?
One
would
talk
about
what
the
scope
and
maintenance,
scope
and
and
nature
of
our
maintenance
program
is
because
I
am
cognizant
of
the
what
the
chair
said
that
you
know
the
mowing
of
it,
for
example,
is,
is
the
person
whose
properties
it's
on
or
adjacent
to,
but
the
the
pitch
or
or
the
depth
is
something
else.
G
What's
set
out
in
that
memo
that
I'm
asking
for,
but
I
think
that
memo
would
be
very
helpful
not
only
for
the
people
sitting
in
this
meeting,
but
all
accounts
more
voting
on
this,
because
I
think
the
public
struggles
with
the
distinction
between
between
maintenance
and
replacement
and
and
again,
I
think,
there's
a
causal
connection
between
the
level
and
type
of
maintenance
and
the
need
for
for
connection
or
repair
to
it.
So
is
that
something
staff
feels
comfortable
to
be
able
to
provide
between
now
and
when
we
vote
on
this
at
council.
H
Thank
you
sure
rain
through
the
chair.
Most
certainly
that's
something
we
can
undertake
is
to
respond
to
and
answer
those
questions
counselor
with
regards
to
our
maintenance
quality
standards.
The
works
that's
performed
with
regards
to
maintenance,
the
the
budget
that's
allocated
to
that,
and
the
number
of
staff
that
do
work
on
ditch
maintenance
throughout
the
year.
That's
most
certainly
something
we
can
undertake
and
provide.
G
And
I
think
quentin
if
I
can
just
be
a
bit
more
granular
just
for
the
public's
sake
as
well.
If
there
could
be
a
a
you
know,
a
good
short
explanation
as
to
what
the
city
means
by
maintenance
in
terms
of
their
jurisdiction,
if
you
will
and
what
falls
into
the
property
owner's
jurisdiction.
I
think
that
would
be
also
helpful
so
again,
if,
if,
if
you
have
sufficient
direction
to
go
ahead
and
provide
that,
then
then
you
know
I'm
I'm
prepared
to
support
this
this
morning.
G
But
again
I
I
may
change
my
mind
depending
what
we
see
or-
or
I
know,
council
brockton
is
looking
at
maybe
moving
some
sort
of
amendment
or
having
some
further
discussion
when
it
does
come
to
council
so
I'll
be
interested
to
see
what
he
comes
up
with
in
that
regard
as
well,
but
I'll
just
leave
it
there
for
now,
but
I
just
think
that
it's
very
difficult
to
separate
the
two
in
determining
how
we
proceed
with
this.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you.
We
should
have
done
one
of
those.
I
never
before
tried
triple
joint
meeting
and
brought
in
transportation
committee,
because
all
those
issues
right,
so
the
road
maintenance
is
the
one
that
deals
with
the
with
with
ditch
maintenance.
So
you,
the
same
group,
that's
out
there
dealing
with
your
sidewalks
and
your
roads
and
plowing
your
roads,
that's
the
one
that
deals
with
the
the
regular
maintenance
of
the
ditches.
So
that's
all
under
transportation
committee,
council,
meehan.
D
Thank
you.
I
can't
help,
but
feel
I
mean
we.
We
have
so
many
questions
and
there's
so
much
confusion
about
this,
because
we
haven't
got
a
really
straightforward
policy.
On
this
I
mean
we
have
a
policy,
but
nobody
seems
to
understand
exactly
who
is
responsible
for
parts
of
the
policy.
So
I'm
just
wondering
number
one.
I
just
I'm
going
to
drill
down
it's
as
basic
as
it
can
possibly
be
do.
Does
the
city
have
a
schedule
to
inspect
like
first
of
all,
do
we
have?
D
M
Thank
you.
Chair
first
point
is
that
with
the,
as
I
mentioned
before,
that
there
is
in
the
appendix
of
the
policy
of
everyone,
so
all
the
different
pieces
and
all
the
different
crews
accountable.
So
for
that's
the
first
piece
and
the
next
piece
in
regards
to
I'm
going
to
ask
peter,
do
we
have
a
list
of
all
the
communities
of
when
their
ditches
are
for
the
maintenance
piece
and
the
renewal.
B
O
D
I
think
number
one
can
I
start
I
gotta
stop
you
there
peter.
I
think
this
is
where
we're
running
into
problems
we
have
to
let
those
neighborhoods
know
that
we're
not
gonna
just
respond
to
complaints
that
there's
going
to
be
a
schedule,
a
schedule
of
inspections
in
these
neighborhoods
and
they're
going
to
know
when
their
ditches
are
going
to
be
inspected.
D
D
They
so
they
they
need.
These
neighborhoods
need
to
know
that
their
ditches
are
a
priority
okay
and
that
they
have
a
responsibility
and
the
city
has
a
responsibility.
So
that's
that's
my
number
one.
I
think
we
haven't
done
a
good
job
in
driving
that
home,
like
we
wouldn't
just
really
like
the
end,
our
new
communities,
the
way
that
we're
putting
in
our
our
manholes
and
and
the
you
know
culverts
we
just
we
have
to
inspect
them.
D
M
D
I
didn't
get
that
so
we're.
This
is
what
we're
suggesting
so
so
in
order
to
to
justify
that
the
necessity
necessity
of
a
permit.
I
think
we
have
to
drive
home
just
how
important
our
ditches
are
and
any
any
alteration
has
to
be
inspected.
Any
any
plan
for
alteration
has
to
be
inspected
and
it
has
to
be
for
the
good
of
the
entire
neighborhood
so
and
also
mr
mckay,
you
said
that
there's
there's
four
neighborhoods,
where
we're
doing
a
a
ditch
study
right
right
now.
D
O
D
D
Well,
you
know,
that's
interesting,
that's
coming
up
this
fall.
We
want
to.
We
want
to
alter
the
policy
right
now
and
then
we're
going
to
get
the
results
after
we
do
this.
I
don't
know
if
this
is
the
card
before
the
horse.
I'd
love
to
see
I'd,
love,
to
see
what
the
studies
show
us
in
these
four
neighborhoods
that
we
want
to
reinstate,
and
then
maybe
that's
the
time
when
we
take
a
look
at
this
policy.
D
Yeah,
well,
I
think
that
my
personal
opinion
is,
if
we
are
we
have
to,
we
have
to
impress
upon
these
neighborhoods.
I
think
they
know,
but
they
also
have
to
know
that
the
city
takes
us
very
seriously,
that
there
is
an
inspection
schedule
that
they
have
what
their
responsibility
is
for
the
ditches.
If
there's
any
alteration,
there's
going
to
be
an
inspection
and
the
permit
will
be
issued,
but
it
has
to
be.
We
have
strict
policies
and
I
think
we
do
we
actually
have
a
what's.
D
D
I
know
a
lot
of
the
neighborhoods
have
the
old
systems
of
ditches,
but
if
we
were
to
remediate
some
of
these,
can
they
have?
Can
the
the
current
system
handle
the
water
that
we'll
be
putting
into
them?
I
just
like
everything,
everything's
interconnected.
We
change
one
area,
it's
going
to
affect
another,
it's
going
to
affect
another,
it's
all
going
a
certain
way
can't
do
we
have
the
pipes
and
everything,
maybe
I'm
off
course
on
this
one,
but
I
I'll
just
go
back
to
oh.
D
I
said
it
another
time,
but
I
would
like
to
see.
I
would
like
to
see
the
results
of
this
for
neighborhood
study
on
what
it
would
take
to
to
reinstate
the
functioning
capacity
of
the
city,
because
it's
a
big
issue,
so
I
don't
know
about
the
timing
of
this
if
this
can
be
delayed
just
until
after
we
see
that
study,
I
don't
know
if
anybody
agrees
with
me
on
that,
but
I'll
just
leave
it
there.
Okay,
thank
you.
Chair.
M
To
the
point,
this
is
an
updated
policy.
We
already
have
a
policy
in
place,
we're
updating
it,
so
it
would
not
impact
the
studies
that
are
underway.
This
is
updating
the
policy.
So
if
we
delay
the
update
to
the
policy,
this
could
mean
that
residents
will
be
filling
in
their
ditches
which
causes
issues.
So
what
the
policy
does
it
puts
in
the
language
to
allow
people
through
the
local
improvement
policy
to
fill
in
or
alter
their
ditches,
but
that's
what
the
policy
is
doing.
A
Thanks,
nothing
prevents
us
from
from
looking
at
this
again.
I
wouldn't
recommend
a
sort
of
motion
on
the
fly
today,
but
discussion.
I
know
councilor
brockington's
thinking
of
stuff,
I
know
other
members
are
thinking
of
cancer
kits,
wouldn't
hurt
to
to
sort
of
figure
out
the
best
path
forward.
How
we
want
to
further
investigate
this
issue
and
come
back
to
council
on
july
6
with
something
counselor,
kids.
J
Thanks
chair
good
lead
into
to
what
I
wanted
to
say,
so
you
know,
as
counselor
eagle,
I
said,
I'm
not
entirely
comfortable
supporting
the
report
today.
I
I
don't
feel
like
the
local
improvement
policies
presented,
are
very
accessible
or
practical
for
residents,
and
we
heard
from
the
delegations
you
know
they
feel
more
work
needs
to
be
done
at
the
same
time.
I
know
how
long
staff
has
been
working
on
this,
and
this
is
just
an
update.
A
Well,
I
think
it
wouldn't
hurt
to
to,
because
I
I'm
not
sure
what
other
counselors
are
thinking
of,
and
I
know
cassidy
brockton
has
some
thoughts,
so
I
I
like
I
I
like,
where
you're
going.
I
think
that
would
I
think
that
would
frame
well
into
emotion
at
council,
okay,
but
I
wouldn't
mind
having
some
further
discussion
with
other
members
between
now
and
then
to
see.
If
we
can
package
up
a
bit
a
bit
more
of
a
comprehensive
thought
process.
J
L
A
Sure,
especially
when
we
see
that
there's
you
know,
there's
a
desire
to
talk
about
the
other
issue
too,
or
the
the
maintenance
issue,
and
that
kind
of
piece
that
fits
in
the
transportation
committee
doesn't
fit
into
our
terms
of
reference
here
on
either
committee.
Well,
actually,
iraq.
It
would
council
robinson.
F
Thanks
karen
thanks
councillor
kitts
for
for
getting
us
moving,
I
think
in
the
right
direction.
My
suggestion
today,
chair
procedurally,
is
that
the
committee
defer
the
matter
before
us
straight
to
council.
It
means
the
committee
will
not
take
a
position
one
way
or
another
on
the
matter,
and
it
will
give
us
some
time,
colleagues
to
think
about
what
we
want
to
do
at
council.
I
only
saw
the
delegates
presentations
late
last
night.
I
really
did
not
have
time
to
come
with
with
emotion
but
similar
to
counselor.
F
A
We'd
refer
it
with
a
non-decision
it'd
be
you'd,
be
referring
it
to
refer,
okay,
the
without
making
a
decision.
Ultimately
I
will
say
this
whether
we
approve
this
today
or
whether
we
don't
approve
today
or
we
punch
it
to
council,
it
doesn't
change
a
whole
lot.
It
doesn't
change
a
whole
lot
in
terms
of
what
the
folks
from
carl
knights
are
saying,
they're
asking
for
for
for
for
more
consideration,
they're
asking
for
something:
that's
not
here.
Currently
again,
we
can
approve
this.
Nothing
stops
us
from
from
looking
at
things
further.
L
F
A
That
because
I
wanna
I
have
some
questions,
I
don't
wanna
because
I
little
wouldn't
mind
getting
through
the
questions
today,
so
we
don't
end
up
having
a
full
sum
drainage.
We've
had
full
some
dream
discussions
at
council
before
they
don't
always
go
up
so
since
we're
here
to
talk
about
drainage
in
this
setting,
we'll
just
continue
doing
that.
So
just
from
the
report
from
the
evaluations
of
other,
I
think,
obviously,
at
the
city
in
production
automation,
we
had
multiple
municipalities
with
multiple
viewpoints
on
ditch
alteration:
some
allowed
it
some
didn't.
A
P
A
P
Part
of
our
part
of
our
review
process
with
our
working
group
is,
we
had
hired
a
consultant
to
do
a
municipal
review
and
there
were
several
sections
in
one
of
our
technical
memos
where
they
pulled
how
they
also
handle.
If
you
will
ditch
alteration
very
similar
to
the
city
of
ottawa,
I
think
we
actually
got
a
compliment.
P
Saying
we're
a
bit
of
a
lead
on
this
as
far
as
going
to
this
level
of
review
that
we've
undertaken
here
in
the
city
of
ottawa,
but
the
majority
of
them
are
following
very
similar
process
in
that
at
the
time,
and
this
is
something
hearing
all
the
questions
today
is
when
we
approve
at
the
time
that
that
development
went
in.
That
was
the
service
level
that
was
provided
as
part
of
that
subdivision,
as
if
it
today
was
a
new
real
estate.
Subdivision
ditching
was
the
design
component.
P
That
was,
you,
know,
reviewed
and
put
it
put
into
place,
and
it
has
all
the
requirements
that
we
need,
as
far
as
you
know,
how
to
manage
water,
but
not
just
water,
but
water
quality
and
water
quantity.
So
that's
something.
There's
been
a
lot
of
comments
today
about
about
standing
water.
What
have
you
sometimes
that's,
actually
part
of
the
design
of
the
system
is
to
retain
that
water
system.
P
However,
I
don't
want
to
digress,
so
the
other
municipalities
also
have
said
if
somebody
is
looking
to
alter
that
design,
then
it's
imperative
that
you
look
at
it
from
a
subdivision
or
stormwater
management
review
of
the
community,
because
that's
how
the
original
community
was
designed,
as
you
had
said
before,
if
you
you
know,
start
making
modifications
to
one
or
two
ditches.
Ultimately,
it
can
have
a
big
impact
on
the
system.
So
I
think
the
consistent
messages
we
have
been
hearing
is.
P
You
have
to
look
at
it
as
a
system
approach
that,
if
you're
moving
away
from
ditches
to
another
type
of
alternative,
you
have
to
look
at
the
system.
If
you
don't
you're
putting
the
city
at
risk,
whether
it
be
a
flooding
issue,
whether
it
be
a
drainage
issue,
whether
it
be
a
ponding
issue,
so
that
was
a
consistent
municipal
review
that
we
did
come
back
in
the
consultant's
review
and
those
technical
memos
are
available
if
somebody
wants
to
if
you'd
like
to
review
them.
I
believe
they're
part
of
the
report
chairman,
is
that
correct?
A
Your
yeah,
no
for
sure,
I
think,
just
further
conversation
so
from
a
cost
perspective
in
terms
of
cost
recovery
as
to
who
pays
for
what
did
you
find
differences
in
in
that
scope?
I
I
again
if
I
look
at
if
I
look
at
pre-amalgamation
of
rito
township,
if
you
wanted
to
fill
in
your
ditch
in
reno
championship
prior
to
motivation,
there
was
a
process
you
paid
for
it,
but
there
was
inspections.
There
was
a
pre-inspection
a
during
construction,
inspection,
post
inspection.
A
You
know
it
might.
It
might
run
you
between
three
and
five
thousand
dollars
at
that
time,
but
that's
the
whole
cost
of
of
putting
in
the
culvert
the
cash
base
and
the
swales
make
sure.
There's
no
other
impacts.
Again.
We've
talked
about
why
that
in
isolation
might
be
okay,
but
as
you
as
you
connect
them
all
together,
it's
a
problem,
but
did
you
have
a
similar
situation?
We've
seen
other
municipalities
that
maybe
offered
the
opportunity
for
that
to
happen,
but
again,
because
it's
your
ditch
and
it's
your
a
private
culvert
that
it's
it's
it's
on.
A
P
Again,
I
think
the
consistent
messaging
was.
There
is
a
subject:
point
of
risk.
If
municipalities
get
into
trying
to
allow
one
person
to
do
something
into
those
costs
that
you'd
indicated,
that
sounds
to
me,
a
very
local
type
cost
to
a
homeowner
to
to
fill
in
the
pipe.
I
think
where
the
municipality
has
has
received
the
recommendations
and
should
be
consistent.
Is
you
have
to
look
at
the
network?
P
You
look
at
the
network
that
engineering
review
is
where
all
the
costs
come
in
and
I
think
traditionally
that's
where
a
lot
of
the
local
residents
aren't
willing
to
take
that
on.
You
know
I
don't
want
to
throw
a
term
out
there.
Peter
might
know
more
of
what
a
stormwater
management
review
might
cost
of
the
city.
But
that's
where
I
think
the
difference
was
some
municipalities
may
have
accepted
the
risk
to
say
we
will
allow.
P
You
know
an
infinite
one
lot
review
with
a
very
low
cost
item,
but
that
risk
is
obviously
over
a
number
of
lots
happening.
It
becomes
a
larger
risk
to
the
city,
so
the
city's,
taking
the
position
that
if
you
want
to
do
any
type
of
review,
moving
away
from
a
ditch
system,
you
have
to
look
at
it
from
a
network
approach
which
is
going
to
trigger
a
larger
consultant
review
study
that
the
city
has
to
be
able
to
review
and
even
accept
or
not
accept.
Yeah.
A
A
When
it
comes
to
the
drainage
act
process
that
catchment
area
might
be
quite
large
and
the
folks
outside
of
the
aerial
cargo
drainage
might
be
far
greater
than
the
folks
actually
requiring
drainage
but
they're
the
ones
that
actually
are
able
to
dictate
the
process
and
they
end
up
carrying
most
of
the
cost.
But
the
point
is
they
don't
need
a
majority?
A
local
improvement
requires
majority
and
the
folks
on
high
ground
generally
don't
care
where
their
water
goes
and
if
their
water
all
gets
away.
A
I
mean
not
to
be
offensive,
but
they
don't
really
care
where
the
water
goes
as
long
as
it
gets
away
from
the
property.
The
situation
where
you
have
landfills,
you
put
your
garbage
in
a
laneway.
It
disappears.
Nobody
really
cares
where
it
goes,
even
though
it's
in
someone
else's
backyard
in
a
landfill.
A
So
it's
it's
that
same
challenge
and
that's
why
the
local
improvement
process
sometimes
is
doesn't
work
because
you
can't
get
the
66
buy-in
into
that
process,
but
just
so
that
just
I'm
just
explaining
challenges
essentially
at
this
point,
but
so
we've
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
subdivisions
in
developed
areas,
but
the
one-offs,
like
the
you
know,
for
instance,
where
I
live.
I
don't
have
someone
near
me
for
for
half
a
kilometer.
A
If
I
filled
my
ditch
in,
am
I
really
impacting
anyone
there's
a
lot
of
folks
like
that
in
the
rural
area
who
want
to
fill
their,
they
want
to
fill
their
ditch
and
again
properly
with
it
with
a
with
with
a
swale
and
a
full.
You
know
full
cover
and
a
catch
basin
to
catch
the
road,
because
the
key
thing
for
the
city
is
to
make
sure
that
we
have
road
drainage.
That's
why
the
ditches
are
there.
The
ditches
aren't
there
for
for
for
private
property,
runoff
they're
there
for
road
runoff.
P
I
would
say
that
the
based
on
the
review
that
we've
done
through
through
a
consultant's
review
is
we've
treated
everyone
consistently.
So,
from
an
engineering
perspective,
we've
been
very
consistent
that
it
has
to
be
a
network
review.
You
know
in
the
isolated
areas,
I'm
thinking
more
in
the
rural
communities.
Large
lots.
I
don't
want
to
speak
on
behalf
of
peter,
but
maybe
he'll
want
to
jump
in
here.
I
think
that
would
review
would
still
need
to
be
done.
P
Obviously,
it's
probably
less
benefiting
owners
if
it
is
like,
you
said,
a
farmer
that
may
own
the
majority
of
the
property-
that's
being
reviewed
to
be
done,
but
I
would
say
that,
based
on
the
recommendations
before
the
committee
today
that
that
network
review
would
have
to
be,
but
that
network
can
be
very
different
right.
It
really
and-
and
I
think
that's
why
we
can't
come
out
with
a
blanket
statement
to
say
you
know
lot.
P
Ultimately,
as
you
know,
these
things
all
end
up
within
the
municipal,
right
of
which
is
owned
by
the
city,
and
you
know
there
is
a
risk
at
the
city
to
make
sure
that
we're
providing
proper
drainage
for
both
private
and
public
and
the
infill
policy
office.
Sorry,
the
ditch
info
policy
we're
looking
at
today
is
just
to
make
sure
those
mechanisms
are
looked
at
before
residents
contemplate,
trying
to
go
ahead
and
do
that
work.
P
So,
there's
two
before
the
committee
today,
so
local
improvement
or
as
if
like,
for
example,
a
developer,
a
private
person
decides
that
they
want
to
front
end
that
cost
of
that
entire
study.
To
do
just
what
you're
saying,
depending
on
what
that
drainage
area
looks
like
it
could
be
a
very
you
know
reasonable
project.
I
could
say-
or
it
could
become
a
very
large
project,
but
without
knowing
each
individual
case
by
case
is
very
difficult
to
say
and
give
a
generic
response
to
say
that
this
one's
okay
and
that
one's
not.
A
We
we
have.
I
know
off
of
first
line
road.
There's
state
lot
developments
in
there
as
a
part
of
vanessa
but
they're
all
half
of
it
was
supposed
to
be
open
ditches,
but
the
community
came
together
and
pushed
the
developer
for
closed
ditches.
Now,
that's
brand
new
and,
in
your
experience,
you've
seen
that
even
those
brand
new
ones
now
will
likely
cause
challenges
in
the
future.
As
that
infrastructure
you
know,
erodes
and
then
the
responsibility
of
it
falls
to
the
homeowner
correct.
P
That's
correct
so-
and
I
heard
this
asked
excuse
me
a
little
bit
earlier
today.
I'm
sure
that
if
somebody
puts
in
a
private
approach
which
is
the
driveway
access
to
their
property,
it's
a
legal
private
approach
size
the
right
way.
There
is
a
culvert
being
required
to
be
installed
as
part
of
that
private
approach.
P
The
risk
the
city
gets
into
is:
if
they
continue
to
extend
that
culvert
along
the
front
edge
of
the
property
it
most
likely
is
exceeding
the
legal
private
approach
and
it
becomes
as
we're
trying
to
address
in
this
policy
now
an
illegal,
ditch
modification
you're
actually
piping
that
system.
So
then
we
get
into
those
concerns.
We
talked
about
earlier
right
now.
It's
very
clear
that
a
culvert
under
a
private
approach
is
a
homeowner's
responsibility
right.
It's
there
to
provide
access
to
their
property
if
the
culvert
crosses
a
municipal
roadway.
P
P
Some
enforcement
issues
can
take
a
long
time
to
recover
if
they're,
within
a
brand
new
development.
Now
we
also
have
the
developer,
that's
involved
and
we're
putting
pressure
on
the
developer
to
try
and
deal
with
these
issues
before
the
city
will
come
in
and
give
final
acceptance
to
a
subdivision,
so
they
also
get
delayed.
But
of
course
the
risk
there
to
the
city
is
it
wasn't
reviewed
in
accordance
with
that
overall
stormwater
matchup
plan
for
the
subdivision
right?
So
we
don't
know
what
that
impact
is.
P
Who
owns
that
pipe
now,
so
the
way
that
we've
looked
at
it
from
the
city
is
it's
an
illegal,
ditch
infill,
the
city
is
not
going
to
take
it
over
and
then,
if
we
get
pushed
into
a
situation
where
the
city
is
being
told
to
now,
look
after
it
who,
to
that
point
who's,
maintaining
it
right
is
it
being
cleaned
is?
Are
we
videotaping
it?
Is
it
part
of
a
maintenance
package,
so
you're
right
in
the
new
developments?
P
A
A
So
there's
there's
a
lot
to
this
and
I
think
you
know,
I
think,
in
terms
of
what
council
kids
was
speaking
of.
This
is
something
I've
been
engaged
on
with
staff
for
a
long
time,
probably
since
december
1st
2010.,
and
I
think
it's
something
that
would
benefit
other
counselors
engaged
in
that
conversation,
because
we
often
we
often
don't
consider,
I
think
myself,
a
real
counselor.
A
I
don't
often
consider
counselor,
proceeding
or
counseling
less
situation
that
they
would
have
that
they
have
subdivisions
or
developments
that
are
almost
identical
to
ones
that
I
would
have
in
the
rural
area.
We
often
we
have
to
drive
those
lines:
urban,
suburban
rural.
We
don't
realize
how
much
across
pollination
there
is
between
between
wards
and
and
impacts.
The
glenns
could
easily
be
north
korea
to
be
fair.
A
It's
it's
no
you're
right.
North
korea
is
better
so
the
anyway.
So
we
will
I'll
take
a
counselor
brockton's
suggestion.
We've
no
issue
for
me
to
pass
this
on
to
council
without
without
making
a
decision
today
and
knowing
that
we
might
want
to
have
something
come
forward
to
provide
a
bit
more
direction
before
we
do
so
so
that
we
can
continue
this
conversation
on.
I
don't
think
staff
of
any
concern
with
that
on
the
bright
side.
I
won't
be
here
next
time
to
bug
you
about
drainage,
anymore,
quentin,
bryan
kevin.
B
A
Thank
you
all
and
we'll
chat
further.
So
if
anyone
wants
to
reach
out,
we
can
connect
a
bit
more
council
rockets
and
cancer
kits
on
figuring
out
the
best
way
forward
as
to
how
we
can
package
it
all
together.
Ideally
in
one
motion,
so
we
put
it
all
together
succinctly
and
explain
it
to
our
council
colleagues,
who
did
not
have
the
pleasure
of
sitting
in
on
this
drainage
discussion
all
right.
Thank
you
all.