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From YouTube: Transit Commission – June 16, 2021
Description
Transit Commission – June 16, 2021 – Audio Stream
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas
A
E
E
G
A
A
A
H
I
A
A
A
A
F
F
F
F
F
F
Next
slide,
please,
we've
we've
talked
previously
at
transit.
Commission
mean
that
one
of
the
next
pieces
of
work
to
do
is
to
do
with
the
track.
So
we
announced
earlier
this
week
that
we
will
be
doing
those
temporary
service
adjustments
starting
tomorrow.
This
will
allow
for
rtg
to
conduct
that
additional
track
remediation
work
in
addition
to
the
seasonal
maintenance
requirements.
This
is
not
an.
K
F
Thing
that
you
know
the
work
that
we're
doing
right
now
that
rgg
is
doing
over
the
next
couple
weeks
is
expensive.
You
know
last
transit,
commission,
I
showed
the
machinery
that's
been
brought
in
it's
here.
It's
on
site,
it'll
be
put
onto
the
rails
tomorrow,
but
it's
significant
work,
we're
doing
rail
grinding
and
profiling
of
the
entire
line.
So
all
24
kilometers
of
track
two
tracks.
You
know
they've
got
up
to
800
metric
tons
of
ballast
that
they'll
be
adding
to
the
rail
line
and
they're.
You
know.
F
So
the
real
big
focus
is
on
the
track
as
well.
They'll
be
doing
some
other
seasonal
work,
they'll
be
taking
advantage
of
the
time
like
we've
said
all
along
take
advantage
of
this
period
of
low
ridership
to
do
as
much
as
we
can
so.
The
work
of
the
work
is
significant.
It's
it's
and
it's
in
addition
to
the
seasonal
work
that
we'd
be
doing
every
year,
but
you
know,
and
then
the
big
focus
is
on
on
the
track.
F
F
What
we
anticipate
that
you
know
after
the
period
of
two
to
three
weeks
you
know
once
things
have
you
know,
trains
have
run
over
the
rails
and
sort
of
smooth
things
out
a
bit
more
that
the
noise
and
vibration
levels
will
reduce.
But
you
know
it's
important
to
note
that
you
know
all
railroads.
There
is
a.
There
is
a
degree
of
noise
and
vibration,
especially
on
curves,
but
we
are
expecting
improvements.
You
know,
after
a
period
of
time,
once
this
work
is
complete.
F
Next
slide,
please
some
of
the
additional
work.
You
know
these
are
the
seasonal
requirements,
but
once
again
just
trying
to
leverage
the
time.
You
know
the
extensive
glass
cleaning,
guideway
material
cleaning.
You
know
going
through
doing
more
deep,
clean
on
the
stations
and
then
well
there's
a
variety
of
track.
Catenary
and
other
types
of
inspections.
So
once
again,
there'll
be
a
lot
of
activity.
It's
just
about
utilizing
the
time
as
best
possible.
F
So
as
as
we
communicated
earlier
this
week
last
daily
rail
trips
will
operate
at
7
pm
with
bus
replacement
service,
starting
at
that
time
and
we'll
go
into
the
end
of
the
day.
Rail
service
will
resume
its
normal
time
each
morning,
so
we'll
just
we're
just
impacting
the
the
finish
time.
Right
now,
communications
we've
issued
the
memo
public
service
announcements,
signage
will
be
at
stations
and
we
will
have
staff
roaming
about
the
stations.
F
We
don't
have
the
deal
train
ambassadors
anymore,
but
we
do
have
a
large
number
of
staff
that
will
be
out
there
and
supporting
our
customers
during
this.
During
these
slide,
please
train
wheels.
You
know
the
the
replacement
continues
both
sides,
the
daily
inspections
on
the
entire
fleet,
will
continue
until
such
time
as
all
the
wheels
are
replaced
or
have
been
adjusted.
F
K
Thanks
troy
next
slide,
please
eric
so
ridership
in
the
month
of
may
was
at
20
of
the
usual
levels,
that's
a
little
higher
than
it
was
earlier
in
the
year,
but
still
very
low,
and
that
continues
to
be
due
to
the
stay-at-home
order.
We'll
be
watching
radish
it
very
closely
through
the
month
of
june
and
as
restrictions
continue
to
lift
over
the
months
and
to
come
next
slide
please.
K
So,
since
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic,
128
of
our
co-workers
at
oc,
transpo
have
tested
positive
120
of
those
have
recovered
and
they're
back
to
work.
There's
currently
eight
who
are
isolating
at
home
and
recovering,
and
that
brings
us
to
the
end
of
the
presentation.
Mr
chair
will
be
happy
to
take
any
questions.
E
Please
you
very
much
mr
chair,
and
I
just
wanted
to
start
off
with
asking
mr
scrimsher
about
the
covet.
That's
a
fairly
high
rate,
and
I
just
want
to
know:
do
we
have
any
information
about
how
many
have
been
vaccinated
now
in
terms
of
our
our
our
our
frontline
workers
of
oc,
transpo,
hopefully
they're
they're
well
underway,
and
maybe
even
getting
their
second
vaccinations
by
now,.
E
Okay,
because
they
were
certainly
concerned
about
being
put
on
the
list
as
priority,
so
hopefully
that's
moved
along
in
terms
of
for
mr
charter
in
terms
of
noise,
noise
reduction.
I'd
like
to
hear
a
little
bit
more
about
what
exactly
is
being
done
to
reduce
noise.
I
I
want.
I
want
to
know
that
we're
we're
well
on
our
way
to
to
resolving
these
issues
as
we
work
towards
stage
two.
E
F
So
what
they're
going
to
be
doing
is
they're
taking
you
know
that
piece
of
that
large
piece
of
machinery
that
you
that
we
presented
the
pitchers
last
as
a
commission
and
they're
they're
they're
grinding
the
the
the
rail
head,
where
the
wheel
interacts
with
the
track,
which
will
make
which
will
make
it
a
smoother
ride,
and
then
that
will
then
reduce
the
noise
and
vibration.
But
it
it's
the
track.
But
it's
the
interaction
between
the
the
train,
wheel
and
the
track.
E
F
Well,
you
know
track
work,
there
will
always
be
seasonal
track.
Work
will
always
be
times
in
which
we'll
be
doing.
You
know
this
this
type
of
rail
grinding.
This
is
extensive
because
we're
doing
the
entire
line
and
end
and
in
other
years
I
would
anticipate
that
we
would
be
doing
sections
or
portions
of
the
line,
not
the
entire
track,
but
this
is
a
regular
maintenance
that
you
see.
All
railroads
would
do
from
time
to
time,
and
you
know
we're
at
that
point
where
we
need
to
do
it.
We
need
to.
F
We
need
to
do
an
extensive
amount
of
it,
we're
doing
it
for
complete
end-to-end.
So
it'll
get
us
to
a
good
point,
but
you
know
we
will
always
have
you
know
regular
and
seasonal
maintenance
that,
but
you
know,
but
this
is
extensive.
You
know
two
weeks
of
seven.
You
know
closing
at
seven.
This
is
extensive.
This
is
not
the
norm,
it
won't
be
an
annual
thing,
but
you
will
see
in
us
doing
rail
grinding
from
time
to
time
and
and
other
types
of
activities
on
the
track.
F
Correct
yeah
the
curves
will
when,
when
they're
out
there
with
the
machinery,
the
curves
will
take
longer
to
do
they'll.
You
know
essentially
that
machinery
will
have
to
take
a
few
more
passes
in
that
area
and
those
are
areas
in
which
are
prone
to
more
or
more
regular
wear
and
that's
something
that
you
know
rtm
and
then
their
ongoing
maintenance
and
seasonal
maintenance
plans
will
need
to
address
so
but
yeah.
F
E
F
You
know,
I
think
you
know
the
the
seasonal
track
maintenance.
You
know
we
need
to
make
sure
we
have
a
good,
solid,
robust
plan
moving
forward,
which
they
do.
You
know.
I
don't
think
there
would
be
necessarily
any
changes
in
that
regard,
but
we
just
need
to
stay,
they
need
to
stay
at
it
and
and
they
will
they're
going
to
they
it
needs
to
be.
You
always
need
to
be
working
on
the
track.
You
always
need
to
be
making
adjustments.
F
B
F
Bit
less
than
two
years
is
this
maintenance,
or
is
this
rectification
of
of
an
issue
at
at
installation
the
the
work
that
we'll
see?
That's
a
good
question,
mr
chair,
you
know,
I
wouldn't
say
it's
it's
correction
of
work,
but
installation
we
did
identify
through
the
the
ongoing
assessments
that
we've
been
doing,
that
there
is.
You
know
there.
There
was
some
challenge.
F
There
were
some
areas
for
improvement
with
regards
to
the
track:
noise
and
vibration
being
one
specifically
at
the
herdman
curves,
one
of
the
curves
heading
into
and
out
of
cerebral
station.
You
know
so
you
know
we
identified
that.
You
know
that
the
noise,
the
vibration
and
you
know
the
track
required
some
some
additional
attention.
We
identified
that
through
that
the
process
that
we've
been
going
through
with
the
rectification
plan.
F
It
wasn't
one
of
the
original
major
items,
but
as
we
were
doing,
our
assessments
we
identified
some
additional
areas
of
focus
track
was
one
of
those
additional
areas
of
focus
that
we
identified
from.
So
this
gets
us
back
to
sort
of
a
more
level
state
baseline
to
baseline
it,
and
then
you
know,
then
it
becomes
the
the
maintenance
that
the
ongoing
maintenance
and
the
seasonal
adjustments
at
that
point.
So
it
gets
us
back
to
that
base
level
where,
where
we
should
be
at
at
the
point
where
we
launched
thank.
B
F
B
B
F
F
It
needs
to
be
planned
and
you
know
when
it
comes
to
rail
lines,
you
you
always
need
to
be
looking
at
a
season
or
two
ahead,
and
you
need
to
be
planning
for
season
two
ahead,
so,
for
example,
in
the
next
couple
weeks
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
winter
operations
and
planning
for
the
winter.
So
you
know
this
work
was
planned
months
and
months
ago
and
that's
how
they
were
able
to
secure
the
equipment.
But
you
know
there
are:
there
are
options
to
be
able
to
secure
the
equipment?
F
For
for
that,
yeah
sure
I
can
yeah
I
apologize
for
that.
So
the
ballast
is
essentially
the
rock
that
you
you
put
around
the
rail
ties
that
holds
everything
in
place,
and
so
you
know
the
800
metric
tons
is,
is
a
significant
amount.
They've
got
400
metric
guns
here,
and
then
they
got
another
400
on
standby
to
pull
in
when
they
need
it.
F
And
you
know
this
is
building
up
in
certain
locations,
they're
going
to
build
up
the
shoulders
around
where
those
rail
ties
are,
and
it
will
provide
more
it'll,
provide
increased
stability
and
it'll
help
with
with
the
seasonal
fluctuations
that
we
deal
with
here
in
ottawa.
You
know
the
the
expanding
in
the
in
the
expanding
in
the
summer
and
the
contracting
in
the
winter
it'll
help
stabilize
that.
So
that
was
one
of
the
the
areas
that
was
identified
as
an
area
in
which
they
needed
to
make
some
improvements
upon
to
to.
F
Or
at
this
point,
yes,
I
would
classify
that
as
rectification,
but,
with
the
caveat
being
you
know,
every
year
we
will
probably
be
adding
not
800
metric
tons.
We
will
be
adding
you
know
ballasts,
and
these
rocks
at
certain
locations
from
time
to
time.
That
would
be
part
of
the
normal
ongoing
maintenance
moving
forward.
Yes,
thank
you
very
much
and
and
mr
chartered,
mr
springer,
mr
manconi.
Thank
you.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
Apparently,
the
vice
chair,
and
I
are
sharing
one
mind
today,
because
he
all
of
his
questions
were
on
my
list.
So
I
only
have
a
few
which
you
know
is
great.
So,
with
respect
to
the
independent
assessment
that
is
being
done
of
the
rectified
rectification
plan.
When
is
this
assessment
going
to
be
completed.
F
H
F
H
Okay,
so
we
don't
know
when
the
rectification
work
is
going
to
be
complete.
As
a
result,
we
don't
know
when
the
independent
assessment
is
going
to
be
complete.
Assessing
that
work.
Okay,
that's
good
information
to
have
the
report
that's
being
completed
by
the
independent
assessor.
Is
that
going
to
be
shared
with
transit
commission.
J
J
We
will
determine
where
that
report
goes,
given
both
the
advice
of
the
city,
clerk,
the
city
solicitor
and
our
external
council.
So
I
don't
have
an
answer
for
the
commissioner
at
this
point.
The
report
is
progressing
and,
as
troy
said,
we
want
the
rectification
done
as
quickly
as
possible.
I
would
suspect,
if
there
is
a
briefing
would
be
to
counsel
in
camera
vis-a-vis
the
other
issues
that
we've
been
discussing.
H
Well,
I
understand
that,
obviously
there
are
other
issues
outstanding,
specifically
legal
issues
when
it
comes
to
rtg
I'd,
just
like
to
remind
mr
manconi
and
others
that
there
are
four
members
of
this
transit
commission
that
do
not
sit
on
council.
That
should
be
privy
to
the
information
with
respect
to
the
rectification
plan
in
terms
of
the
assessment,
and
so
while
the
majority
of
the
members
of
this
transit
commission
do
sit
on
council
would
therefore
have
the
information.
H
I
think
it
would
be
only
fair
in
the
sense
and
spirit
of
transparency
that
the
other
transit
commissioners
I.e
myself
and
the
other
three
citizen
transit
commissioners
do
have
access
to
this
report
as
well.
Otherwise
we
are
not,
then
equal
members
of
this
commission.
So
I
just
like
that
to
be
taken
as
food
for
thought.
In
terms
of
your
considerations
as
to
who
to
share
this
report
with,
I
will
move
on
the
blair
platform
upgrades.
H
I've
had
a
couple
of
people
ask
me,
and
I
said
I
would
ask
today
with
respect
to
shelter,
space
and
making
sure
that
the
traffic
I.e
humans
can
move
around
the
shelters,
but
also
have
enough
place
enough
room
to
distance
and
shelter
in
the
shelters.
What
is
the
status
of
the
blair
platform
upgrades.
K
H
You
know
it
would
be
prudent
for
us
to
ensure
that
those
are
completed.
So
you
don't
have
a
timeline
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
do
we
have
do
we
have
a
do.
We
have
a
a
date
that
we're
looking
to
hit
in
terms
of
getting
these
changes
done
like
what
do
we
have
a
project
plan?
What
what's
I
mean?
We
know
we're
in
procurement,
but
I
assume
that
there's
a
date
that
we're
looking
to
hit
to
have
these
things
done.
H
Okay,
so
the
answer
to
my
question
is:
no:
we
don't
have
a
date.
Okay.
The
last
question
I
have
is
our
everyone's
favorite
controversial
topic:
the
odors
in
our
tunnel
downtown
I've
been
getting
a
lot
of
correspondence
from
stakeholders
from
riders
who
are
still
very
concerned
about
the
offensive
odors.
H
F
F
I
say
inspections,
but
you
know
the
the
you
know
they
do.
They
do
an
assessment.
They
haven't
been
able
to
identify
a
root
cause
for
parliament
with
regards
to
radio
station.
It
is
believed
that
the
smell
stems
from
you
know
the
water
and
the
limestone
in
the
area.
It
does
seem
to
fluctuate
significantly
there's
days
in
which
there
is
there
is
an
odor
present.
Then
there's
many
days
in
which
there's
not
you
know
they
are
working
through
a
variety
of
of
you
know
as
as
they're
they're
working
on
the
tunnel.
F
There's
there's
some
areas
in
which
there's
there's
been
some
water.
That's
been
been
leaching
a
little
bit
and
they've
been
plugging
those
and
closing
them
off.
It
is
anticipated
that
it
may
subside
over
time,
but
at
this
point
they
haven't
been
able
to
determine
the
root
cause
for
for
parliament,
but
it
is
ongoing
and
there
are
assessments
that
continue
on
a
monthly
basis
to
to
to
try
to
identify
that
root
cause
and
ultimately
to
if
they
can,
they
can
stop
that
order
from
occurring.
H
So
it
wasn't
fair
in
my
initial
question.
I
said
two
years
we've
been
talking
about
it.
We've
actually
been
talking
about
it
since
september,
so
the
opening
of
the
lrt,
which
is
about
18
months,
I
think,
or
a
bit
more
18
months-
is
a
long
time
to
number
one
subject:
our
customers
to
incredibly
foul
loaders
and
number
two
to
me.
H
H
H
If
part
of
our
transit
system
smells
like
I'm
just
going
to
say
it
feces
and
rotten
eggs,
that's
not
a
good
customer
experience,
and
so
I
would
encourage
rtg
if
any
of
them
are
listening
to
get
a
move
on
with
the
the
root
cause
analysis,
because
18
months
of
root
cause
analysis
is
a
very
long
time.
So,
if
there's
anything
that
that
you
know,
staff
can
do
to
encourage
rtg
to
get
a
wiggle
on
on
this.
H
A
Thank
you,
commissioner.
I
just
want
to
follow
up
on
one
of
the
responses
you
got
there
with
mr
scrimgeour.
Pat
part
of
the
procurement
process
often
includes
the
date
correct
where
companies
will
once
the
contract
is
getting
negotiated.
That's
when
the
dates
get
solidified,
because
sometimes
we
get
a
better
price.
If
we
wait
a
little
longer,
those
kinds
of
factors
kick
in,
so
is
that
correct?
In
your
experience,
a
lot
of
the
contracts
don't
have
the
dates
ahead
of
time.
K
Right,
mr
chair,
that's
that's
right.
In
general,
one
of
the
the
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
work
before
the
final
construction,
fabrication
and
construction
installation
contract.
There's
engineering
work
that
needed
to
be
done
to
design
the
shelter
in
the
way
that
that
we've
agreed.
You
know
feed
with
basement
feedback
from
customers,
as
we
agreed
with
the
counselors
would
be
the
general
configuration
it's
not
an
off-the-shelf
canopy.
K
It
needs
to
be
designed
properly
from
a
structural
engineer,
structural
engineering
point
of
view
that
work,
that's
as
part
of
the
work
there's
you
know
specialized
fabricators
for
this.
So
though,
the
engineering
procurement
does
continue,
there's
a
lot
of
variables
and
it
would
be.
It
would
be
wrong
for
me
to
suggest
to
our
customers
that
we
have
a
firm
date
that
we
we
just
don't
have
yet.
C
Chair
good
morning,
everyone
first
of
all
thank
you
for
the
report
and
update
I've
been
taking
the
the
trains
more
frequently
than
I
did
during
the
winter,
and
I
just
want
to
say
every
experience
I
have
continues
to
be
positive.
The
trains
are
prompt,
whether
it's
at
rush
hour
or
for
weekend
travels.
C
The
trains
are
clean,
the
stations
are
clean
and
the
air
conditioning
feels
great.
I
remember
writing
to
mr
manconi
last
year
that
the
air
conditioning
on
the
trains
is
really
good,
so
so
far
everything's
been
great
and
the
performance
data
looks
great
for
our
trains.
So
thank
you,
mr
charter.
Just
on
the
list
of
the
rectification
plan
just
to
get
it
off
my
list,
the
switch
heaters
more
or
less
were
fixed,
beginning
or
just
after
the
start
of
the
last
winter,
they
all
went
through
a
full
winter
season
and
that
issue
has
been
fixed.
F
F
C
K
Mr
chair,
we're
ready
for
a
a
range
of
results
depending
on
the
public
health
environment,
depending
on
what
our
customers
decide,
depending
on
what
their
their
employers
and
their
their
the
other
destinations
they're
traveling
to
decide
at
the
time
we
set
the
budget
coming
up.
You
know
close
to
a
year
ago,
maybe
certainly
more
than
six
months
ago,
when
this
budget
is
being
set.
We
didn't
know
that
there
would
be
a
second
wave,
let
alone
a
third
wave.
K
We
didn't
know
how
you
know
what
what
balance
between
unbridled
optimism-
and
you
know,
doom
laden
pessimism
to
to
look
forward
so
we're
ready
to
adapt
to
a
range
of
possibilities.
It
would
have.
You
know,
I
think,
at
the
time
we
quoted
those
numbers
that
were
in
the
budget
that
we
were
building
this
year
on.
K
We
had
anchored
them
on
the
idea
that
ridership
would
start
to
grow
sort
of
linearly
returning
from
wherever
it
was,
which
was
about
30
of
the
time
returning
up
towards
full
ridership
in
a
straight
line
over
the
rest
of
the
year,
starting
from
april.
I
think
we
said
well
vaccinations
aren't,
you
know,
aren't
going
to
be
completed
by
the
end
of
april.
We're
looking
watching
to
see
once
the
vaccinations
are
are
complete.
Maybe
that's
the
end
of
the
summer.
Maybe
that's.
K
When
ridership
starts
to
return
in
greater
number,
I
imagine
it'll
be
starting
to
return.
I
imagine
it
already
has
started
to
return.
We
should
fairly
quickly
get
up
to
the
30
numbers
that
we
were
at
last
summer
and
then
we
should
grow
to
you
know:
50
70
90
as
more
and
more
activities
returned
to
to
the
way
they
were
before
or
to
their
their
new.
K
You
know
people's
new
new
travel
choices.
It
completely
remains
to
be
seen
and
as
we
watch
across
the
world,
there's
different
experiences
in
all
sorts
of
cities
in
all
sorts
of
countries,
depending
on
how
their
their
experiences
begin
has
been.
We
watched
we've
been
looking
at
what
they've
been
doing
in
new
zealand.
We've
been
watching
the
numbers
from
israel,
both
of
whom
avoided
some
of
what
we've
had
recently.
K
You
know,
but
we're,
as
you
know,
canada's
now
very
high
on
the
list
of
vaccination
rates,
at
least
for
first
vaccination,
and
that
will
perhaps
put
us
into
some
territory
that
other
other
cities
aren't
yet.
On
the
other
hand,
we
have
a
very
office
based
economy
here,
so
there
is
more
opportunity
for
people
to
work
from
home
here
in
ottawa
than
there
is
in
many
other
cities,
and
these
are
things
we
just
have
to
continue
to
watch.
K
K
C
C
C
C
C
K
J
K
J
You
know
the
red
blacks
are
coming
back,
it's
great
we're
we're
teeing
up
the
service
for
that
we're
gonna
come
forward
with
the
ideas
of
what
our
promotional
programs
will
be
to
entice
people
back.
That's
great.
We
need
to
know
where
the
federal
government
stands
yeah
and
that's
the
game.
Changer
and,
and
I've
instructed
my
staff.
J
C
Okay,
thank
you.
I
do
think
there
needs
to
be
communication
with
our
local
mpps
that
if
there
are
these
ongoing
decisions,
not
to
bring
back
federal
workers
in
any
large
volumes
that
there
are
some
serious
economic
impacts
to
us,
loss
of
transit
revenue-
and
I
don't
know
if
we
would
be
unique
across
the
country
to
ask
for
federal
funding
to
help
bridge
that
gap.
But
because
so
many
federal
workers
live
in
the
ncr
and
we
rely
on
so
many
of
them
to
take
transit.
C
J
Counselor,
I
can
tell
you
that
ms
steffensen
is
exactly
aligned.
I
know
she's
on
this
call
to
where
you
are
in
terms
of
our
uniqueness
as
a
federal
government,
major
employer
and
it
and
it
goes
beyond
just
transit
and
that's
our
position
to
the
federal
government.
It's
not
it's
also
economic
recovery
for
downtown
all
those
dry
cleaning,
coffee
shops,
everything,
restaurants,
it's
a
holistic
picture,
and
so
when,
when
I
speak
to
them,
I
don't
speak
them
just
from
the
transit
lens.
J
Ms
steffensen
and
I
speak
about
and
mr
willis,
who
was
fantastic
on
the
call,
speak
about
economic
recovery
and
rejuvenation
across
it's
not
just
downtown.
It's
everywhere.
You
all.
You
all
have
offices
in
your
wards
in
just
about
every
ward
across
the
city
that
has
federal
government
employees,
and
so
absolutely
I
see
wendy's
on
the
call
she
may
want
to
comment.
D
Thanks
john,
if
I'm
a
counselor
just
to
add,
we
do
have
some
certainty
to
the
end
of
the
year.
We
have
funding
through
the
safe
restart
agreement,
which
will
largely
make
us
whole
and
just
to
add,
to
what
pat
was
talking
about.
When
I
had
provided
an
update
at
fedco
around
our
finances.
We
know
we
have
a
small
gap
in
transit
and
when
pat
talks
about
that
ridership
increasing
towards
the
end
of
the
year.
That
gap
is
naturally
going
to
close.
So
that
certainty
is
there
for
us
for
this
year.
G
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
report
today.
It's
very
helpful,
I'm
mostly
here
for
the
ebus
issue,
which
I'm
excited
to
talk
about
next,
but
did
want
to
just
jump
in
on
a
couple
comments
or
suggestions.
Here
we
are
seeing
during
the
weeks
the
trains
still
stopping
at
at
various
locations,
and
I'm
wondering
if
we
can
get
more
information
about
why
that
is
so.
I'm
seeing
that
the
the
you
know
the
messages
communications
go
out
that
the
train
may
be
stopped.
G
F
Yes,
mr
chair
yeah,
I
mean
like
we
mentioned
previously.
You
know
the
system
won't
run
perfectly.
We
know
that
there
will
be
occurrences
where
you
know.
Maybe
it's
a
stop
train,
or
maybe
it's
a
medical
medical
emergency.
You
know
we
have
experienced
those
so
over
the
past
month,
I
think
there's
there's
been
five
or
six
occurrences
where
we've
had
to
do.
Some
single
tracking
two
of
those
occasions
has
been
a
result
of
some
planned
maintenance
in
which
we
wanted
to
get
them
out
there
to
inspect
the
track.
F
Those
days
where
we
had
those
high
high
heat,
we
wanted
them
to
get
that
there
be
proactive
check
the
track,
make
sure
it
was.
It
was
okay,
you
know
so
we
we
we
we
did
some
single
tracking,
and
in
that
time
you
know
you
impact
the
customers
and
that
they
may
have
to
transfer
trains,
or
they
may
see
an
increase
of
commute
time
by
a
few
minutes.
But
there's
no
one
new,
there's
no
new
trend,
there's
nothing
new.
We
we
had
a.
I
think
we
had
a
vehicle
issue.
F
One
time
we've
had,
as
I
said,
the
plan
maintenance
where
we
want
to
do
some
inspections.
We've
had
a
got
a
medical
emergency,
you
know
if
you
go
farther
back,
we
we've
even
had
you
know
situations
where
we've
had
you
know
wildlife
on
the
tracks.
That's
caused
some
disruption
so
but
there's
no
new.
There's
no
new
issue,
there's
nothing
to
add
to
the
rectification
plan.
But
you
know
we
will
have
the
the
odd
disruption
from
time
to
time.
G
Okay,
thank
you.
That's
helpful.
I
I
think
it
would
be
great
to
have
that
summary
every
month
or
every
couple
of
months,
just
that
you
just
gave,
because
I
you
see
them
every
week
and
it
may
be,
it
may
be
a
a
technical
issue,
maybe
a
passenger
issue
and
that's
helpful
to
get
out
there
to
the
public.
So
maybe
I
don't
know
if
you've
sent
that
around
or
not,
but
but
every
couple
of
months
would
be
good
to
get
okay.
F
You
know
we
we
do,
we
do.
We
do
know
the
reasons
for
when
we
ever
have
a
disruption
or
a
delay.
We
do
have
the
rationale
reasons
for
it.
Sometimes
the
initial
indication
can
change
based
upon
once
they've
done
the
investigation,
but
we
we
do
have
that
information
available
to
us.
You
know,
and
you
know
I
take
it
under
you
know.
The
commission's
advisement
is
still
what
they'd
like
to
what
they'd
like
to
report
on
like
us
to
report
on.
G
Okay,
maybe
I'll
just
send
you
an
email
every
couple
of
months
and
see
if
you
can
send
it,
send
it
our
way.
Thank
you
for
that
troy.
That's
very
helpful
regarding
transit,
ridership
and
and
counselor
brought
commissioner
brockington's
questions.
I'm
sorry
if
I
missed
the
answer.
What
are
we
currently
at
in
terms
of
ridership
in
the
last
few
months?
K
G
G
J
Everything's
on
the
table
and,
for
example,
july
1st
is
no
fair,
even
though
there's
no
canada
day
we're
going
to
continue
with
that.
We
are,
we
have
we
have.
We
started
work
about
two
weeks
ago,
especially
when
we
started
to
see
the
acceleration
on
the
vaccination,
we're
looking
what
other
jurisdictions
have
done.
Washington,
as
example,
which
is,
I
always
like
to
use
as
our
comparator.
J
They
change
their
fare
structure
because
they
got
fair
by
distance.
We
are
putting
everything
on
the
table
and
we
will
certainly
bring
forward
to
the
commission,
ideas
and
suggestions
on
how
to
do
all
that
and
to
get
return.
Riders
grow,
new
riders,
sustain
riders
and
enhance
some
of
the
changes
we
did
on
some
of
the
local
routes
and
so
forth,
so
everything's
on
the
table,
and
if
you
have
ideas
or
suggestions,
we'd
welcome.
G
A
J
Thank
you
chair.
I
want
to
just
take
a
few
minutes
and
introduce
a
couple
of
slides
and
then
I'm
going
to
turn
over
to
mr
scrimger.
It
is
a
lengthy
presentation.
It's
a
lengthy
report.
It
needs
to
be
there's,
there's
a
lot
that
has
gone
into
this
and
I'd
like.
I
just
wait
for
the
clerk
to
bring
up
slide
number
the
first
slide
there.
After
the
slide
two
there.
J
Mr
chair,
the
the
uitp,
which
is
the
international
public
transit
industry
association,
put
out
a
report
back
in
november,
which
which
sits
on
my
desk.
I
read
it
cover
to
cover
numerous
times,
because
it
did
the
best
job
of
talking
about
the
complexity
of
of
fleet
conversion,
irrespective
of
the
fuel
source
that
you
choose
and
what
I
like
about
this
slide
in
the
next
slide.
Is
it
talks
about
you
know
those
final
words
there
in
the
quote.
J
Is
that
the
way
I
always
like
to
put
it,
the
bus
is
the
easy
part
it's
about.
Looking
at
all
the
inputs,
the
operations,
the
infrastructure,
the
business
models,
the
finances-
and
I
know
some
counselors
have
reached
out
to
me
this
week
and
asked
some
great
questions
and-
and
I
trust
we're
going
to
have
more
today-
the
deck
along
with
the
report
hopefully
gives
you
a
holistic
view
of
everything
that
we've
done
in
terms
of
bringing
this
very
significant
program
to
the
table.
J
The
the
other
piece
I
wanted
to
flag
for
you
is
that
there
was
a
very
great
team
that
was
assembled
both
at
the
executive
level
and
at
the
technical
level.
People
such
as
wendy
steffensen
who's,
who
was
the
the
gatekeeper
of
the
finances
and
making
sure
that
we
were
robust
and
having
a
sustainable
financial
model.
J
There
was
bryce
from
hydro
ottawa,
the
ceo
of
hydro
ottawa
and
his
team
adenine,
who,
who
brought
the
technical
expertise
on
the
the
the
complex
part
of
this,
which
is
the
infrastructure,
the
charging
and
the
backup
systems
and
so
forth,
which
again
pat,
will
give
you
an
overview
on
that
we
brought
in
ray
mobuchi
from
deloitte
who
who's
done
very
complex
financial
deals.
To
be
the
oversight
of
you
know.
How
does
the?
J
How
do
the
numbers
work
and
the
financial
models,
which
I
know
people
will
be
asking
questions
about
today
and
then
our
two
funding
partners,
canada,
infrastructure
bank
and
infrastructure,
canada,
the
game
changer
in
why
our
electric
buses
long-range
electric
buses
suddenly
feasible
for
us,
is
that
the
cib
and
I
want
to
give
the
canada
infrastructure
bank
and
their
team
charles
todd
full
credit.
They
did
an
amazing
job
of
bringing
forward
the
most
comprehensive
model.
J
J
Think
of
the
complexity
of
everything
from
where
do
you
store
them?
How
do
you
manage
them?
How
do
you
schedule
them?
How
do
you
maintain
them?
How
do
you
train
your
staff
to
maintain
them
and
so
forth,
operate
them
and
so
forth?
So
all
of
that
came
together
very
very
nicely
and
and
hence
the
reason
we're
before
you
today
recommending
what
we're
recommending
before
I
go
to
the
next
slide.
J
Every
year
you
will
get
a
check-in
on
the
next
year's
purchases
during
the
the
budget
process,
and-
and-
and
I
say
that-
because
I
know
I'll
be
asking
questions
about
what
about
hydrogen,
which
is
a
zero
emission
bus
opportunity.
You
know
they're
not
there,
yet
they
could
evolve.
You
know,
will
double
deckers
be
available,
they're
being
tested
right
now?
Will
articulated
buses
be
available?
So
you'll
have
an
opportunity,
as
the
governing
body
to
check
the
plan
every
single
year
as
we
do
the
transition.
J
So
the
next
slide
is
a
graphical
representation
of
all
of
those
building
blocks
and-
and
it's
important
that
we
all
remind
ourselves
of
the
complexity
of
this-
the
vehicle
is
the
easy
part
and
the
industry
has
done
an
amazing
job
of
long-range
buses
that
will
work
in
our
environment
that
charge
rapidly
and
so
forth.
So
I
just
I'm
very
proud
of
the
work
that
the
team
has
done.
I
want
to
thank
all
our
partners
and
we're
happy
to
answer
all
your
questions
and
I'm
going
to
turn
over
to
pat
it's
about
30
slides.
J
K
Thanks
john
and
thanks
mr
chair
and
eric
we'll
go
to
the
next
slide,
please
so
we'll
start
here
with
a
you
know,
just
an
overview
of
what
we're
going
to
show
you
and
how
it
ties
into
the
the
policy
background.
The
policy
decisions
that
council
and
the
commission
the
policy
directions
that
that
you've
made
across
the
top.
K
That
leads
us
to
the
work
we're
in
right
now,
where
we
have
that
the
first
zero
mission
bus
is
coming
later
this
year,
you
see
them
there
in
2021,
developing
the
fleet
conversion
plan,
which
is
the
report
we
have
before
you
today
and
then
over
the
years
from
now
over
the
15
years
that
it
takes
to
replace
every
bus
in
the
fleet.
We
can
get
to
a
full
fleet
conversion
if
it
remains
financially
feasible
to
do
so.
K
We
can
get
there
by
2036
and
the
other
policy
recommendation
policy
direction
you
gave
us
was
to
pursue
funding
opportunities,
dedicated
to
transit
and
environmental
initiatives
from
other
levels
of
government,
and
that's
a
big
part
of
what
john
was
talking
about
and
what
we'll
be
showing
you
more
about
later
in
this
presentation
next
slide.
Please.
K
As
john
mentioned,
it's
been
a
big
study
and
we
pulled
in
experts
from
several
organizations.
We,
we
engaged
dillon
for
technical
reports
on
technology
alternatives.
They
have
expertise
to
look
across
the
industry
and
across
the
country
and
around
the
world,
both
on
what's
available
as
energy
sources
what's
available
in
the
transit
industry
and
how
people
are
making
that
transition
and
very
one
of
the
subsidiaries
of
hydro
ottawa
was
our
experts
providing
information
on
energy
supply
and
energy
management.
K
Deloitte.
As
john
mentioned,
our
experts
on
providing
financial
analysis
and
looking
to
make
sure
that
the
what
the
federal
government
and
the
cib
are
offering
is
aligned
with
what
what
is
laid
out
in
the
city's
long-term
financial
plan.
We
had
great
help
from
a
number
of
our
colleagues
at
transit
systems
across
the
country.
K
So
we
looked
at
a
number,
and
we
also
once
we
looked
at
the
energy
source,
we're
looking
at
what
is
the
the
right
means
to
get
that
energy
from
its
supply
to
the
wheels
of
the
bus
to
move
the
people
down
the
street.
So,
first
of
all,
we
looked
at
compressed
natural
gas
and
renewable
natural
gas,
both
of
which.
K
Have
the
potential
to
you
know
do
have
lower
emissions,
but
they're
not
zero
emissions.
They
don't
meet
the
council
policy
direction.
They
don't
meet
the
the
federal
funding
eligibility
criterion,
hybrid,
electric
buses,
as
we
had
for
several
years.
We
had
them
for
about
11
or
12
or
13
years,
the
even
the
modern
ones
they're
not
recommended
because
they
still
are
not
zero
emissions.
So
they
don't
meet
the
council
policy
direction.
K
K
They
are
zero
emission,
but
we're
not
recommending
those
because
of
the
high
cost
of
buses.
Those
buses
are
because
they're
very
specialized
they're,
currently
more
expensive
than
a
battery
electric
bus
and
also
there's
a
high
cost
to
put
in
that
infrastructure
to
to
string
the
wires
over
all
the
streets
where
the
buses
would
run
and
then
there's
a
need.
K
Obviously,
those
buses
can
only
run
on
the
streets
where
those
wires
have
been
installed.
So
it's
the
kind
of
thing
that
works
for
busy
trunk
routes
in
some
cities
where
that
infrastructure
already
exists,
but
can't
work
where
you're
you're
aiming
for
an
eventual
complete
conversion
of
the
of
the
complete
system:
hydrogen
fuel
cells,
another
zero
emission
technology,
it's
a
way
of
storing
and
transporting
electricity.
K
We're
not
recommending
those
at
this
time
because
of
the
current
high
cost
and
untested
nature
of
buses,
they're
very
few
of
them,
and
the
high
cost
of
production
or
transportation
of
hydrogen.
But
that's
certainly
something
that
all
of
us
in
the
transit
industry
will
be
watching
in
the
years
to
come.
K
K
The
next
step
is
that
we
recommend
that
batteries
are
the
recommended
storage
technology
to
carry
the
electricity
around
from
the
garage.
As
the
bus
moves
through
the
city,
battery
powered
buses
can
operate
anywhere
on
the
transit
system
and
battery
buses.
Battery-Powered
buses
can
be
recharged
at
our
garages
and
if
needed,
can
be
charged
along
routes,
but
we're
recommending
long-range
buses
that
can
go
from
the
garage
drive,
their
their
scheduled
work
block
and
then
come
back
to
the
garage
to
be
maintained,
cleaned
and
recharged
all
the
same
time.
K
B
K
The
next
slide
shows
that
same
sequence,
in
a
little
more
detail,
showing
the
elements
of
that
as
the
transmission
comes
in
to
the
hydro
station,
gets
brought
down
to
the
distribution
voltage.
There's
an
on-site
substation
to
bring
it
to
the
voltage,
that's
used
at
the
garage,
and
you
can
see
the
switchboard,
the
power
pack,
the
pantograph
and
the
bus,
and
each
of
those
elements
needs
to
be
sufficient
and
in
many
cases,
needs
to
be
built.
K
In
some
cases,
we
this
this
recommended
program
does
require
more,
not
only
more
equipment
on
site,
but
also
more
capacity
on
the
distribution
part
of
the
hydro
network.
The
next
slide,
please
what
we
need
here.
This
is
what
we
have
now.
We
have
344
or
37
percent
of
our
plate
is
made
up
of
the
40-foot
buses.
38
percent
of
the
fleet,
or
currently
356
is
made
up
of
the
60-foot
articulated
buses.
K
So
you
can
see
how
that
adds
up
to
932
buses
right
now,
that
adds
up
to
100
of
the
fleet,
and
you
can
see
how
we
assign
those
different
bus
types
where
there's
up
to
45,
70
or
90
people
per
trip
when
we're
outside
the
pandemic
and
the
pair
transfer
buses,
which
have
very
long
range
because
they
need
to
have
a
very
long
requirement
for
a
range
because
they
need
to
move
across
the
entire
city.
Completing
everyone's
trip.
Availability
of
those
buses
right
now
is
variable.
The
40-foot
buses
are
very
available.
K
These
are
the
ones
that
we're
buying
to
arrive
this
year.
This
is
what
we're
recommending
that
you
consider
for
purchasing
next
year
for
delivery
the
following
year.
Those
are
very
available.
60-Foot
articulated
buses
are
available,
but
currently
don't
have
quite
a
long
enough
range
for
to
meet
our
needs,
but
technology
is
improving
quickly.
K
Double
decker
buses
are
just
starting
to
become
available
and
be
tested
in
the
north
american
market,
and
so
we're
we're
quite
optimistic
that
technology
will
improve
by
the
time
we
need
to
replace
our
oldest
double
decker
buses
and
paratranspo
mini
buses.
We're
watching
those
very
very
closely
because
that'll
have
that'll
do
with
how
the
automotive
industry
deals
with
small
trucks,
delivery
trucks,
things
like
that
things
that
are
convertible
into
a
into
a
minibus
and
that
that
market
is
opening
up
quickly,
but
currently
in
the
market.
K
K
As
I
mentioned,
the
bus
fleet
size
goes
down
as
planned.
Train
expansions
open,
but
the
bus
fleet
plan
also
grows
as
as
ridership
is
expected
to
grow
as
the
city
grows
over
the
long
term.
The
next
buses
that
we
need
to
acquire
are
going
to
be
74
or
40
foot
buses
that
we
would
buy
in
2022
we'd
come
in
they'd,
be
included
in
the
2022
capital
budget,
expecting
them
to
come
in
2023
because
delivery
time,
when
you
place
an
order
for
bus,
is
something
just
over
a
year.
K
K
Then
at
2024
you
can
see
that
bar
chart
as
a
stacked
version,
showing
you
some
40
foot
buses,
some
60
60-foot
articulated
buses
and
that's
time
for
the
replacement
of
the
paratranspo
bus
fleet
as
well.
Then,
in
2025
42,
44,
buses
66.
I
believe
it
is
60-foot
articulated
buses
in
2026.
You
can
see
40-foot
buses,
60-foot
buses
and
a
few
trains
that
are
scheduled
to
arrive
then
and
then
2027.
K
K
K
There's
quite
a
lull
there
from
2028
to
2030,
and
that
means
that
over
the
next
five
years
there
is
an
opportunity
to
replace
almost
half
of
the
fleet
in
the
first
third
of
what
is
normally
a
15-year
life
cycle
and
that
that
is
an
opportunity
to
to
get
a
lot
of
fleet
conversion
done
if
we're
moving
to
a
new
new
energy
source
and
a
new
technology
next
slide.
Please.
K
So,
as
I
mentioned,
buses
are
normally
replaced
after
15
years
or
seven
years
for
the
minibuses
we
use
in
paratranspo.
Therefore,
any
technology
change
or
any
feature
change
takes
15
years
to
be
on
all
buses,
and
we've
done
this
before,
with
with
air
conditioning
with
with
a
seat,
design,
change
we're
under
in
that
process.
Right
now,
with
cameras
on
buses,
any
any
feature
change
takes
15
years
to
propagate
through
the
entire
fleet,
as
all
the
buses
are
replaced.
K
We
have
four
40-foot
buses
that
are
in
production
now
purchased
last
year
for
delivery
this
year
and
our
entry
into
service.
Later
this
year,
we're
recommending,
as
I
said,
74
40
foot
buses
for
next
year,
and
if
those
are
battery
electric
buses,
we
will
have
78
of
them
by
2023,
giving
us
one
of
the
largest
fleets,
not
only
in
canada,
but
in
north
america.
K
Conversion
beyond
2027
is
something
that
we
would
look
at
towards
the
end
of
this
first
five-year
term.
Getting
a
refreshing
it
looking
at
what
the
technology
status
is
at
that
time.
Looking
at
what
the
funding
availability
is
at
that
time,
seeing
what
the
federal
government
policies
are
and
what
funding
is
available
from
the
cib
or
infrastructure,
canada
or
through
any
other
program
at
that
time.
K
The
next
slide,
please
here's
another
graph.
This
is
not
the
bus
fleet
acquisition
plan,
but
this
is
what
would
result
if
the
plan
were
adopted.
The
plan
we're
putting
in
front
of
you
today
if
this
were
adopted
and
all
future
bus
purchases
were
zero
emission
battery
electric
in
the
first
five
years
technology
to
be
determined
beyond
that
point.
But
if
they're
all
zero
emission,
you
can
see
that
in
2022
we
start
with
a
tiny
little
orange
fraction
at
the
top
of
that
blue
bar
by
20
23.
K
K
K
The
long-range
battery
electric
buses
are
charged
at
the
garage
operate.
All
the
trips
that
make
up
the
scheduled
workblock
come
back
to
the
garage
for
cleaning
maintenance
and
recharging,
just
as
they
do
now
for
refueling
short-range
battery
electric
buses
are
what's
being
tested
in
some
other
cities,
montreal
and
vancouver,
for
instance,
those
are
charged
repeatedly
through
the
day.
They've
got
a
smaller
battery.
You
put
a
charge
into
them
very
quickly
at
a
high
voltage,
and
you
need
charging
infrastructure
not
only
at
the
garage,
but
also
at
points
across
the
system.
K
All
of
the
battery
electric
buses
that
are
currently
available,
including
the
long
range
buses,
do,
have
a
shorter
range
than
diesel
buses.
Just
that
right
now
you
can
get
more
energy,
more
transportation,
energy
and
a
tank
of
diesel
fuel
than
you
can
in
a
bank
of
batteries
that
that
can
be
carried
on
a
bus,
but
we
can
manage
that
with
with
long-range
buses.
There's
a
shorter
range
than
these
buses.
Those
buses
will
have
to
come
back
to
the
garage
more
frequently,
or
else
you
schedule
time
at
terminals.
K
If
you
were
to
adopt
the
short
range
buses,
both
of
those
add
some
operating
costs
in
the
early
years.
With
the
range
that's
available
right
now,
we
can
manage
that
by
assigning
the
current
long-range
battery
electric
buses
to
the
appropriate
work
blocks,
the
blocks
that
we
have
the
work
blocks.
We
have
in
our
schedules
right
now,
which
are
not
long
enough
to
you
know
long
enough
between
when
the
bus
goes
out
and
comes
back,
that
the
battery
electric
bus
can't
handle
it.
A
K
K
and
the
buses
need
to
be
able
to
keep
the
customers
on
board
warm
in
the
winter
and
cool
in
the
summer,
so
the
current
battery
electric
buses.
As
a
result,
the
current
battery
electric
buses
in
canada
are
being
equipped
with
a
small
diesel
heater.
It's
not
an
engine,
it's
just
a
heater
that
is
used
on
the
coldest
days
and
that's
to
keep
the
customers
warm
on
the
bus
and
to
keep
the
air
system
warm
and
dry
on
the
bus.
K
K
So
I
just
moved
my
cat
to
the
floor.
There
we
go
so.
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
the
market
availability,
the
long-range
40-foot
buses,
are
available
from
a
number
of
manufacturers,
the
60-foot
articulated
buses
and
the
double-decker
buses
are
available
not
so
widely
and
don't
have
the
the
range
of
the
40-foot
buses
do.
At
this
point,
the
many
buses
suitable
for
paratranspose
service
are
not
yet
widely
available,
though
they've
been
announced,
we're
watching
development.
C
K
Continues
on
all
of
these
bus
types,
so
as
john
mentioned
earlier,
and
as
I
mentioned
earlier
subject
to
your
approval
of
this
plan,
we
would
review
the
availability
status
and
make
recommendations
to
council
in
each
year
as
part
of
the
capital
budget
on
what
to
purchase
at
that
time
for
to
continue
with
this
fleet
conversion
next
slide.
Please.
K
As
john
mentioned,
the
the
buses
are
just
one
part
of
the
one
part
of
the
system.
Another
very
important
part
is
the
charging
infrastructure
oc.
Transpo
garages
need
to
be
refitted
to
support
battery
electric
buses.
We
need
more
electrical
supply
to
the
site.
We
need
the
electrical
distribution
within
the
garage
property.
We
need
to
install
the
charging
units
and
the
pantographs
to
connect
to
the
buses.
K
We
need
to
strengthen
the
roof
structure
of
the
garages
to
support
the
pantographs,
and
you
can
see
on
the
on
the
right
a
picture
from
edmonton
of
what
those
pantographs
look
like
reaching
down
to
connect
to
the
contacts
on
the
top
of
the
bus
long
term.
Once
that
conversion
is
complete,
there
will
be
the
future
ability
and
need
to
remove
the
fuel
tanks
that
are
at
our
garages
now,
and
there
will
be
the
ability
to
change
the
ventilation
systems
to
keep
the
keep
the
garages
a
safe
workplace
once
diesel
exhaust
is
no
longer
a
concern.
K
K
But
we
do
need
to
avoid
the
times
of
peak
consumption,
because
that's
really
you
know
those
are
late
afternoons
in
the
summer.
Those
are
the
peak
times
we
need
to
avoid
those
times,
because
that's
the
time
that
really
drives
up
our
electrical
costs
for
the
full
year.
We
also
need
to
have
a
backup
power
supply,
because
the
transit
system
still
needs
to
run
even
if
there's
an
electrical
system
outage.
So
that's
part
of
the
the
plan
as
well.
K
Market
availability
on
the
charging
infrastructure
there's
charging
infrastructure
available
from
several
manufacturers,
including,
what's
listed
there.
Our
recommendation
to
you
is
that
we
hire
ottawa
hydro
to
install
acquire
those
install
those
and
operate
the
charging
infrastructure
to
our
specifications
and
hydro
ottawa
would
also
bring
the
upgraded
electrical
supply
to
the
garages
next
slide.
Please.
K
K
There
will
be
some
program
management,
because
this
is
a
big
program.
We're
going
to
need
specialist
contractors
to
us
to
advise
us
on
all
the
aspects
that
that
we're
talking
about
the
plan
level.
Right
now,
we
will
have
to
hire
specialized
staff
who
are
qualified
to
work
on
some
of
these
parts
of
the
buses,
people
who
don't
work
for
the
city
now,
and
we
will
need
some.
K
We
need
to
integrate
or
add
some
computer
systems
to
manage
the
battery
electric
buses
to
make
sure
that
we're
operating
those
charges,
as
well
as
we
can
to
integrate
their
operating
cycle
into
our
current
management
systems,
and
there
will
be
more
things
than
this.
These
are
some
of
the
examples
of
the
transition
costs
that
we
will
incur
the
next
slide.
Please.
K
So
moving
on
to
the
the
one
of
the
most
important
parts
of
the
whole
plan
is
that
the
we
have
to
bring
you
a
plan.
We
had
to
bring
you
a
plan
that
is
affordable
and
feasible
and,
as
you
know,
all
of
our
spending
the
operating
spending
the
capital
spending
is
all
projected
out
for
many
many
years
in
the
long
range
financial
plan
for
transit,
which
we
also
sometimes
call
the
affordability
plan.
K
What
the
canada
infrastructure,
bank
and
infrastructure
canada
programs
unlock
is
that
that
is
now
possible.
The
cost
premiums
of
the
electric
buses
because
they're
more
expensive
than
a
diesel
bus,
the
charging
infrastructure,
the
transition
cost,
would
not
have
been
affordable
without
those
funding
programs
from
the
federal
government
and
now
with
those
federal
funding
programs,
they
are
affordable
and
that's
why
we
can
bring
you
this
plan.
K
So
here's
here's
what
we're
recommending
we
already
have
in
process
the
four
buses
that
are
coming
this
year
that
were
purchased
last
year,
where
we
will
recommend
in
the
2022
capital
budget
the
purchase
of
74,
more
40-foot
battery
electric
buses,
we'll
recommend
to
also
the
purchase
the
costs
to
install
charging
infrastructure
during
the
year
2022.
So
they
can
be.
It
can
be
ready
for
use
by
the
time
those
buses
can
come.
K
Here's
how
the
different
agencies
work
together,
the
city
on
the
top
right,
canada,
infrastructure,
bank
and
infrastructure,
canada
on
the
left,
canada,
infrastructure
bank
loans,
money
to
the
city
through
a
lending
agreement
to
cover
the
cost
premiums,
cost
premiums
of
the
whole
package,
primarily
the
buses,
but
also
some
of
the
charging
costs
infrastructure.
Canada,
also
on
the
left,
providing
a
grant
of
35
to
50
still
to
be
announced.
K
The
next
slide,
please,
here's,
how
the
the
cost
sharing
of
this
whole
program
for
450
buses
over
five
years
would
work
the
costs.
The
battery
electric
buses
would
cost
760
million
dollars
over
that
time.
The
charging
infrastructure
about
204
million
the
transition
costs
about
22
million
all
adding
up
to
just
under
a
billion
dollars
the
sources
of
funds
we'd
get
between
345
and
500
million
from
infrastructure,
canada.
I
wonder
if
I
can
just
ask
everyone
if
I
can
pause
for
a
moment,
there's
somebody
at
my
front
door.
I'm
sorry.
A
K
So
that's
the
costs
over
five
years
for
450
buses
of
just
under
a
billion
dollars,
the
sources
of
funds,
infrastructure,
canada
between
345
and
493
million,
which
represents
a
third
to
a
half
of
that
that
total
amount,
depending
on
the
the
nature
of
what
they,
what
their
eligibility
criteria
are
the
city
share.
We
would
fund
first
of
all,
payback
of
the
loan
to
from
the
cib
from
the
cost
savings
that
would
be
about
400
million
dollars.
K
The
city's
capital
funding
from
our
normal
capital
expenditures
would
be
between
93
million
to
241
million,
depending
on
how
much
infrastructure
canada
will
provide,
and
that
all
adds
up
to
986
million
as
well
just
just
short
of
a
billion
dollars
over
five
years.
Now
it's
important
to
note
that
these
costs
are
preliminary.
This
is
for
the
planning
purposes.
K
This
is
to
make
sure
that
we
can
show
you
a
plan
that
works,
there's
much
more
work
to
be
done
and
we're
more
certain
of
some
numbers
than
we
are
of
others,
because
they're
more
market
tested
and
because
they're
more
generally
applicable.
So
there
will
be
much
more
work
to
be
done
if
based
based
on
your
approval
of
of
this
plan
and
these
policy
directions.
K
There's
there's
a
lot
of
uncertainty,
there's
a
lot
of
variability,
so
some
of
the
risks
are
outlined
here,
risks
that
could
come
true
and
how
we
would
be
or
have
built
mitigations
into
this
into
this
plan
or
would
be
building
mitigations
in
the
future.
So
I'll,
just
scan
these
nine
or
so
under
financial
we've
got
the
risk
that
the
operating
savings
are
not
actually
achieved.
We
do
expect
that
these
buses
are
cheaper
to
maintain
because
there's
fewer
moving
parts.
K
We
do
expect
that
the
energy
costs
are
lower,
but
there
is
a
risk
that
that
will
not
be
achieved
that
we
will
cover
in
the
cib
agreement.
The
cib's
direction
from
the
federal
government
is
that
they
are
to
take
some
risk
on
whether
those
operating
savings
actually
occur.
There's
a
risk
of
fluctuations
in
energy
price,
the
relative
price
between
electricity
and
diesel
per
you
know
for
us,
it's
per
customer
kilometer.
K
There
is
always
the
risk
of
change
in
federal
policy
direction
and,
if
that
occurs,
we
would
report
back
to
you
with
recommendations
to
get
your
direction,
but
at
the
at
the
moment,
the
federal
agencies
that
we're
talking
to
the
cibn
infrastructure,
canada
do
are
indicating
that
the
the
next
five
years
from
2020
to
20,
20
22
to
2027
are
are
solid
from
their
point
of
view.
The
federal
funding
stacking
rules.
That's
the
the
rules
that
the
federal
government
has
to
limit
their
contribution
through
all
sorts
of
grants.
K
They
they
set
rules
so
that,
what's
coming
from
gas
taxes,
what's
coming
from
grants,
what's
coming
from
cib
loans
can
only
add
up
to
a
certain
fraction
of
the
total
that
will
form
part
of
our
conditions.
If
those
stacking
rules
make
this
were
to
change
and
become
make
this
unaffordable,
we
would
advise
you
that
that
this
was
no
longer
a
feasible
way
to
go.
So
that's
part
of
the
discussions,
that's
a
very
important
part
of
the
discussions
with
the
cib
and
infrastructure
canada.
K
Provide
the
range
that
that
we
need
them
to.
We
can
manage
that
for
the
early
years,
certainly
by
keeping
the
initial
buses
to
the
work
blocks
of
an
appropriate
length,
and
if
we
have
to
change
the
specifications
of
future
purchases
to
increase
the
range
we'd
be
we'd.
Do
that
as
technology
improves.
K
There's
the
risk
that
the
bus
life
there's
always
a
risk
that
bus
life
does
not
achieve
its
full
15-year
cycle.
We'll
make
sure
we
cover
that
in
the
long-term
warranty
with
the
manufacturer
and
also
in
the
agreement
with
the
cib
there's,
a
risk
of
power
outages
and
it's
necessary,
of
course,
that
the
transit
system
continue
to
run
even
if
the
electricity
is
out
and
so
a
backup
generator
on
site
to
charge.
The
buses
is
a
part
of
this
plan.
K
The
next
slide,
please.
So
at
the
end
of
all
this,
there
are
benefits-
and
you
know
these
benefits
well.
They're
they're
laid
out
in
the
the
city's
climate
change
master
plan,
there'd
be
no
pollution
from
the
buses,
there'd,
be
no
greenhouse
gas
emissions
coming
from
the
buses,
except
for
that
small
diesel
heater
used
on
cold
days.
K
K
The
funding
agreement
is
structured
in
such
a
way
that
the
city
is
kept
whole
overall
for
operating
capital
costs
continuing
to
adhere
to
the
affordability
model
and
the
buses
will
be
quieter
as
they
operate
through
the
city
for
transit
customers.
I
think
the
next
slide
for
transit
customers.
These
are
new
buses
that
will
replace
life
expired
diesel,
buses,
they'll
just
be
new
40-foot
buses.
K
We
will
use
them
where
they
can
be
used
to
their
best
advantage
where
they
can
provide
the
most
environmental
benefit
based
on
the
operating
requirements,
making
sure
that
we
get
the
most
we
can
out
of
these
buses.
There'll
be
no
pollution,
there'll
be
no
greenhouse
gas
emissions
near
the
buses.
The
buses
will
be
quieter,
but
for
the
for
people's
travel
around
the
city,
those
buses
will
look
generally.
The
same
feel
generally
the
same:
quieter
inside
same
capacity
to
move
people
same
ability
to
maintain
the
current
schedules
and
and
any
future
service
levels
that
are
set.
K
The
next
slide,
please
so
at
the
end
of
this,
and
at
the
beginning
of
your
report,
you'll
see
that
there
are
seven
recommendations
and
I'll
go
through
those
one
at
a
time,
there's
much
more
detail
in
the
report.
The
first
recommendation
is
that
you,
you
and
council,
give
us
direction
that
the
city
will
purchase
zero
emission
buses
for
all
future
transit
bus
fleet
needs
on
the
basis
the
buses
are
available
to
meet
operational
needs
and
that
the
purchase
is
affordable
under
the
transit.
Long
range
financial
plan.
B
C
K
To
give
authority
for
the
general
manager
and
the
treasurer
to
negotiate
the
funding
agreement
with
infrastructure,
canada
again
to
have
no
net
effect
on
the
transit
long-range
financial
plan,
subject
to
stacking
rules
and
acceptable
risk
transfer
and
seven.
The
seventh
recommendation
is
authority
for
the
general
manager
and
the
chief
procurement
officer
to
conduct
a
multi-year
procurement
process
so
that
we
can
get
every
saving
possible
out
of
a
large-scale
procurement
with
manufacturers
of
charging
equipment
and
battery
electric
buses.
K
The
next
slide,
please,
so
here
is
the
the
timeline
where
we're
here
at
the
transit
commission
in
june,
with
that
diamond
at
the
top
we'd
be
negotiating
the
agreements
with
cib
infrastructure,
canada
and
hydro
ottawa
over
the
months
to
come.
We
need
to
get
cib
approval
here
is
shown
by
january
infrastructure.
K
A
L
So,
while
eric
is
doing
that
I'll
just
cover
the
second
slide,
so
second
slide
talks
about
evco.
So
thank
you,
chair,
first
of
all,
for
letting
me
speak
today,
so
the
the
first
slide
that
we're
seeing
right
now
is
that
it
talks
about
oops.
I
hope
I
have
the
oh.
Oh
I've
got
that's
a
wrong
presentation.
Let
me
talk
to
the
the
subject
matter.
Instead,
so
that's
that's
the
wrong
presentation,
so
the
bc
transit.
Sorry
is
the
so
sorry
about
that.
L
Evco
is
the
electric
vehicle
council
of
ottawa
and
we're
a
100
volunteer
non-profit
organization.
We
have
no
ties
to
industry.
So
what
so?
What
we
are
looking
at
is
accelerating
the
electrification
of
the
transportation
system
and
the
the
second
slide,
which
I
wish
you
could
see,
is
actually
a
congratulations
to
to
staff.
We
are
very
pleased
with
the
report
very
pleased
with
the
presentation
that
mr
scrimgeour
just
made.
L
So
just
a
couple
of
things
about
the
report
that
we
want
to
review
so,
in
particular,
there's
a
mention
about
reviewing
technologies
available
technologies
in
2026.
Our
assessment
is
that
hydrogen
will
still
be
more
expensive
and
we
believe
actually
that
the
differential
between
hydrogen
and
electric
will
grow
by
that
time.
So
we
believe
this
to
be
a
foregone
conclusion
that
hydrogen
will
not
be
a
good
solution.
So
we
what
we're
recommending
is
to
refocus
that
review
on
the
midlife
refit.
L
L
We
believe
that,
based
on
the
declining
price
of
batteries,
that
it
may
become
economic
by
that
time,
to
do
the
conversion
to
electric
and
that
would
allow
the
city
to
accelerate
the
electrification
and
basically
allow
the
city
to
convert.
Almost
all
the
buses
to
electric
by
2029
there'll
be
a
few
exceptions
more
than
likely,
but
most
of
the
bus
would
be
converted
by
then.
L
L
L
If
we
don't
electrify
it
now,
it'll
be
it'll,
probably
be
a
decade
or
more
before
we
have
an
opportunity
to
do
that,
and
also
oc
transpose
got.
A
fleet
of
other
vehicles
are
used
for
all
sorts
of
purposes,
and
there
are
solutions
available
for
for
just
about
every
use,
either
rate
in
market
today
or
coming
to
market
soon.
L
That
would
be
good
options
for
oc
transpo,
and
the
final
thought
is
that
these
garages
are
very
large
surfaces
and
those
would
be
ideal
to
deploy
solar
which
could
be
used
in
those,
particularly
in
the
those
very
hot
mid-summer
days
that
mr
scrimgeour
spoke
about
to
supplement
the
supply
of
electricity
to
either
shave
the
peak
in
the
afternoon
or
to
charge
the
the
buses
during
the
afternoon
on
that.
Thank
you
very
much.
L
I
I
What
would
that
look
like
you?
I
know
that
you
said
that
there
was
in
milton
there
was
the
capacity
for
midlife
retrofits
talk
about
what
that
yeah.
What
that
timing
would
look
like
what
exactly
that
would
look
like
and
how
that
would
how
you
like.
Do
you
feel
that
that
would
be
cost
effective
rather
than
waiting
to
just
convert
out
our
buses.
L
Okay,
so
a
couple
of
questions
in
that
so,
first
of
all,
there
is
a
company
in
milton
that
is
doing
the
conversions
now,
whether
the
cut,
whether
it's
cost
effective
or
not.
I
I'm
not
sure
at
this
point.
What
we
do
know,
though,
is
batteries
are
dropping
in
price
about
20
percent
a
year,
so
the
cost
structure
will
change
significantly
between
now
and
2026.
L
So
that's
why
we're
recommending
that
oc
transpo
have
a
look
at
this
and
see
if
the
the
the
the
business
model
makes
sense
right
so
they'll,
the
the
the
cost
of
substituting
the
the
battery
and
electric
motor
versus
the
diesel,
transmission
and
and
engine
and
the
savings
in
in
fuel
and
maintenance
afterwards
do
those
to
those
trade
off,
and
is
it
a
good
business
decision?
We
don't
know
at
this
point
and
it's
it's
too
early
to
tell
okay.
L
I
A
J
Thanks
chair
no
yeah,
I
do
want
to
clarify
some
things
and
you
know.
Thank
you,
mr
larry,
for
the
comments
I
I
do
wish.
He
would
pick
up
the
phone
and
call
us
once
in
a
while,
because
some
of
his
facts
are
just
wrong:
the
trillium
line
we
bought.
You
approve
trains
that
are
convertible
to
electric
and
that's
because
we
kept
that
in
line.
J
I
know
there
was
many
counselors
that
very
good
discussions
with
me:
counselor
dean's
counselor
riley,
to
keep
that
option
open
and
we
said
we're
keeping
every
option
open
electrification
of
that
line,
hydrogen
of
that
line
and
so
forth.
So
your
trains
are
convertible.
We
there's
a
battery
pack
conversion
program
to
it
on
the
conversion
of
buses.
J
We've
looked
at
that
in
the
past
and,
as
mr
lurie
pointed
out,
there
is
risk
and
there's
costs
in
that
and
again
you
know,
my
advice
to
you
is
be
leading
edge,
don't
be
bleeding
edge.
You've
got
a
robust
plan
in
front
of
you
here.
Do
massive
conversions,
doing
mid-life,
conversions
and
swapping
out
components
sounds
so
easy,
but
you
know
unless
mr
lurie
is
aware
of
a
fleet
operation,
that's
done
it
at
the
scope
and
scale
of
ours.
J
I
would
not
go
into
that
space,
but
again
we
will
check
in
every
year
with
you
and
if
that
that
that
approach
leads
to
faster
adoption
of
your
council
approved
goals
and
is
cheaper
and
is
more
reliable.
The
last
thing
you
want
to
do,
it
add,
is
add
more
risk
to
a
profile
we've.
Given
you
all
the
risks
in
front
of
you
and
getting
into
mid-life
conversion
of
battery
packs
and
so
forth.
Remember
we
had
that
difficult
discussion
and
some
of
you
were
around
when
we
wanted
to
convert
hybrids
back
to
diesel
buses.
J
So
it
sounds
easy
on
paper.
It's
very
complicated
to
do
and
buying
new
and
buying
state
of
the
art
is
our
recommendation
to
you,
but
we
will
certainly
look
at
that
as
it
evolves.
I
just
want
to
assure
members
of
committee,
you
have
the
ability
to
convert
the
trillium
line
and
we
are
aware
of
all
the
conversion
programs
that
are
out
there
and
we
will
certainly
entertain
those
if
those
become
attractive
and
feasible
or
take
direction
from
council.
In
that
regard.
B
A
E
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
I'm
sure
everybody's
going
to
have
tons
of
questions
on
this.
It's
a
pretty
exciting
project
and
I
want
to
say
thank
you
for
for
making
this
initiative.
I
know
this
is
something
that
we
have
been
asking
for
as
council,
and
certainly
those
of
us
on
the
climate
change
committee
that
that
works
together.
A
sponsorship
group
pardon
me
but
there,
but
there
are
people
out
there
that
that
have
concerns
about
cost.
E
These
are
very
expensive
buses
and
they
had
some
questions.
So
I
wanted
to
bring
them
forward
on
behalf
of
residents
in
terms
of
the
ongoing
costs,
and
that
is
the
the
replacement
of
batteries
versus
gas.
There
was
concern
that
one
would
be
that
it
would
actually
be
higher
in
the
in
the
long
term.
So
I'm
wondering
if
you
have
any
information
on
that
and
how
much
does
it
cost
to
dispose
of
batteries?
Another
another
question,
so
I
want
to
make
sure
we
have
all
the
information
for
the
public.
K
Currently,
the
current
estimate
we
have
from
one
of
the
manufacturers
is
that
the
total
cost
for
disposing
of
a
battery
at
end
of
life
is
a
little
over
five
thousand
dollars.
So
it's
you
know
it's
an
amount,
but
it's
not
an
amount
at
the
scale.
You
know
it's,
it's
not
an
amount
that
would
change
the
recommendation
here.
K
K
E
That's
very
helpful.
I
guess
they
were
looking
for
numbers
of
one
versus
the
other
batteries
versus
gas.
So
since
that
was
raised,
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
people
had
that
information,
so
they
can
see
that
over
the
long
term,
it's
a
it's
meant
to
be
a
cost
savings.
So
I
appreciate
that
a
big
part
of
the
cost
is
in
terms
of
the
maintenance
and
retooling
our
our
shops
and
retraining
staff
and
and
the
ongoing
cost
of
keeping
these
buses
on
the
road.
E
J
Chair
we,
the
transition
costs,
are,
are
on
that
slide
and
and
a
chunk
of
that
and
I'll
ask
pat
to
comment.
If
he's
got
it
broken
down
on
on
those
pieces
are:
are
there
the
on
the
facility
piece?
We
chose
sailor
ross
strategically
because
we
can
fit
it
up
and
we
know
sail
around
is
staying
in
the
long
term
as
we
move
through
the
fleet.
J
There'll
be
other
opportunities
to
review
other
garages,
councilor
cavanaugh
you
and
I
have
been
having
some
discussions
about
the
west
end
garage,
which
we
all
know
one
day
that
that
will
have
to
be
moved.
It's
right
next
to
an
lrt
station
and
so
forth.
That
gives
us
an
opportunity
and
that's
why
this
plan
works
in
that
it's
a
dynamic
plan
where
we're
storing
buses
externally
such
as
indy,
we
will
probably
move
to
canopies
or
some
sort
of
shelter
for
those
buses
for
winter
operations.
J
So
those
are
some
of
the
transition
piece
and
then,
as
you've,
touched
on
retraining
and
retooling,
so
you're
going
from
wrenches
to
a
lot
of
screwdrivers
and
electrical
maintenance
things.
Those
are
all
covered
in
the
transition
piece
and
again
the
the
secret
sauce
to
this
whole
arrangement
is
when
infrastructure
canada
said
they
would
fund
transition
costs.
Those
were
an
important
piece
to
the
to
the
puzzle,
and
that
includes
facility
fit-ups.
E
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
I
appreciate
that
that
you
raised
that
point
about
the
west
end,
so
another
thing
that
people
are
going
to
raise
and
I'm
just
going
to
say
it
because
this
is
what
people
say
is
well.
If
we're
going
to
zero
admission
admissions
with
with
buses,
why
did
we
put
in
a
train
system?
Why
did
we
spend
all
that
money
on
a
trained
system?
And
I
I
know
the
answers,
but
I
want
to
hear
it
out.
K
K
K
E
Okay,
thank
you.
I
don't
know
how
much
time
I
have
left
so
I
may
have
to
go
back
on
the
list.
If
I,
if
I
don't
finish
my
questions
but
in
terms
of
accessibility,
I
believe
you
were
you
were
talking
about
that.
But
just
to
what
extent
is
it
improvement
over
what
we
have
now
with
the
current
buses,
and
one
thing
that
I
was
wondering
about
in
terms
of
the
fact
that
they're
silent
is
there
an
issue
with
people
who
are
blind
that
they
won't
hear
the
bus
coming?
K
K
K
Transport,
canada
is
looking
at,
and
our
information
is
that
transport
canada
may
be
making
some
regulations
that
electric
buses
or
electric
vehicles
of
a
certain
size
have
to
make
a
certain
noise
or
a
certain
noise
at
certain
times
or
speeds
or
in
certain
locations,
and
so
that
will
be
part
of
the
responsibility
of
the
manufacturers
to
deliver
us,
a
bus
that
meets
all
applicable
safety
standards,
because
we
don't
know
where
that's
going
to
end.
We
don't.
I
I
wouldn't
want
to
give
you
a
false.
K
J
I
just
want
to
add
that,
like
we've
done
with
every
new
vehicle,
we
will
consult
directly
with
the
accessibility
advisory
committee.
They
were
outstanding
on
the
train
design.
They
led
to
a
bunch
of
changes,
they
did
the
pair
of
vehicles
and
we
will.
We
will
connect
with
them
and
make
sure
that
they're
engaged.
E
Great
thanks
very
much
just
one
last
question:
in
terms
of
of
costs,
this
is
hopefully
in
the
long
terms,
cost
saving,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
passing
on
the
cost
to
the
transit
riders
that
we're
not
going
to
have
any.
I
have
have
to
deal
with
any
hikes
because
we're
that's
one
of
the
concerns
that
I
have
is
for
transit
riders,
that
we
we
want
them
to
use
the
system,
and
we
may
turn
them
off.
If
we,
we
will
turn
them
off
if
we
raise
the
prices.
A
E
H
Thank
you
very
much,
mr
chair.
First
of
all,
kudos
to
the
presentation,
it
was
very
chock
full
of
information
and
please
forgive
me.
First
of
all,
I
think
we
all
want
to
know
the
name
of
your
cat,
but
I
did
have
to
skip
out
for
30
seconds.
So
I'm
hoping
I'm
not
asking
a
question
that
was
in
the
presentation.
H
B
H
Okay,
okay,
so
obviously
we'd
be
consuming
far
less
than
what
we
would
be.
So
I
guess
there
would
be
a
whole
discussion
around.
Would
we
need
diesel
contracts
anymore?
Is?
Is
that
sort
of
we
have
to
plan
for
the
future?
We're
not
going
to
need
these
massive
diesel
fuel
lock-in
rates
anymore?
It
would
be
substantially
less.
I
would
assume.
H
The
other
question
I
had
was
the
the
the
weight
of
the
vehicles
and
the
only
reason
I'm
bringing
this
up
is.
I
was
watching
television
there's
a
great
new
f-150
pickup
truck
coming
out.
It's
like
6
500
pounds
fully
electric
it's
faster
better
than
even
a
regular
old
pickup
truck.
Unfortunately,
the
weight
is
substantially
more
than
the
2500
standard,
pickup
truck,
I'm
just
thinking.
I
know
we
give
resurfacing
and
priority
to
routes
for
buses.
H
K
It
is
a
concern
and
it's
something
that
the
manufacturers
have
to
deal
with.
They
have
to
be
able
to
design
a
bus
that
both
well
it
meets
all
of
its
requirements
that
it
is
an
appropriate
weight
to
run
on
the
roads
that
it
does
have
enough,
so
that
would
imply
making
it
as
light
as
possible
that
it
has
enough
range.
So
that
would
mean
that
would
imply
putting
in
a
lot
of
weight
in
batteries.
K
But
you'd
want
to
balance
that
off
with
weight
savings
in
the
structure
it
needs
to
have
the
capacity
to
move
as
many
people
as
it
needs
to
move.
It
needs
to
have
the
strength
to
stay
together
and
accommodate
the
weight
of
those
passengers,
and
this
is
a
balance
that
the
manufacturers-
and
you
know,
along
with
all
the
other
technology
challenges.
That
is
one
of
the
major
challenges
that
the
manufacturers
have
to
deal
with.
K
We
will
set
out
in
the
specifications
as
we
have
for
the
buses,
the
four
bus
that
are
coming
first,
we'll
set
out
the
specifications.
What
our
operational
requirements
are
that
will
include
any
safety
considerations
that
will
include
any
weight
considerations.
The
manufacturers
will
propose
a
bus
and,
and
it
needs
to
be
a
bus
that
meets
all
of
all
of
the
criteria.
All
of
the
requirements.
H
Okay,
great
and
again,
I'm
very
happy
about
this,
but
I
assume
we've
looked
at
other
municipalities
just
to
make
sure
that
we're
factoring
in
if
we
have
to
on
life
cycle
of
roads
in
certain
areas,
all
those
factors
are
in
play.
We
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
all
covered
off.
I
do
think
it's
tremendous,
I'm
very
excited
about
these
buses
and
the
other
question
is,
I
think,
you're
gonna
have
to
deal
with
a
whole
bunch
of
angry
cats
on
council
going.
H
I
would
love
to
see
these
buses
in
my
area,
I'm
very
excited
to
see
them
come
to
come
to
town.
How
are
you
gonna
parcel
them
out
through
the
city?
I
you
mentioned
it's
where
it's
the
most
effective,
but
is
there
going
to
be
some
kind
of
balance
on
that?
You
know
some
level
of
urban
suburban,
like
kind
of
a
mix
not
just
focused
on
one
specific
area.
K
That
would
mean
they're,
primarily
going
to
be
on
local
routes,
secondary
routes,
they're
not
going
to
be
as
much
on
the
main
transitway
routes,
which
are
run
with
articulated
buses,
the
main
connection
routes,
which
are
primarily
run
with
double
decker
buses
when
those
buses
become
available.
That's
where
we
can
be
able
to
convert
those
trips
at
all
as
well.
Second,
the
range
of
these
buses
is
shorter
than
a
than
a
diesel
bus.
K
The
range
of
the
current
currently
available
battery
electric
buses
is
shorter,
so
these
would
be
on
buses
that
probably
go
out
in
the
morning
and
come
back
in
the
middle
of
the
day
or
that
go
out
in
the
afternoon
and
stay
out
into
the
early
evening.
These
would
not
be
on
the
buses
that
are
out
all
day
long
on
on
some
of
the
long
crosstown
routes,
buses
that
go
out
at
six
in
the
morning
and
don't
come
back
until
nine
at
night.
K
That
will
mean
that
they
will
probably
be
on
routes
that
are
closer
to
the
garage,
so
we
don't
have
the
operating
cost
of
bringing
them
back
and
because
the
garage
is
fairly
centrally
located,
those
buses
will
be
all
across
the
city,
but
they
will
probably
end
up
more
on
the
east
side
of
bank
street
than
on.
You
know.
If
and
west
of
and
west
of
maryvale,
but
they'll
be
they'll,
be
everywhere,
they'll
be
on
crosstown
routes.
They
will
show
up
in
all
parts
of
the
city.
K
Currently
we
think
that
in
order
to
get
the
best
advantage
out
of
them,
what
we
will
do
is
we'll
put
them
on
the
longest
work
blocks
that
are
under
their
maximum
range.
If
we
went
over
the
maximum
range
we'd,
they
wouldn't
be
feasible
to
do
it.
We'd
have
to
tow
them
back.
If
we
go
too
far
under
that
range,
then
we're
not
getting
the
best
advantage
out
of
them
at
all.
K
We
put
them
on
just
short
blocks
that
are
going
out
to
do
a
couple
of
trips
in
the
morning
like
a
school
trip
or
two
so
we'll
be
putting
them
on
the
longer
blocks
that
are
just
under
their
feasible
range
as
we
you
know
they
they
come
with
a
range
quoted,
but
we'll
see
what
that
range
actually
is
we'll
keep
pushing
it.
Can
we
drive
them
longer?
What
kind
of
charge
are
they
coming
back
with?
How
close
can
we
go
to
as
we
all
like
you.
K
We
manage
our
phones
through
the
day,
how
close
to
zero
are
we
willing
to
go
before
we
plug
in
the
the
phone
to
recharge?
That
kind
of
concept
we'll
learn
and-
and
you
know
at
that-
78
the
first
70,
the
four
plus
the
next
74.
If
that's
the
the
number
we
purchased
that'll,
be
you
know
about
one
of
every
four
40-foot
buses
in
the
fleet.
K
H
C
Thank
you
chair
to
start
off
with
a
question
from
mr
manconi.
If
I
can
to
help
me
better
understand,
sir
your
mindset
a
few
years
ago,
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
you
weren't,
overly
warm
and
fuzzy
with
the
ebus
idea.
We
we
cautiously
embraced
a
for
bus
pilot,
which
I
think
was
certainly
the
right
thing
to
do
and
was
eager
to
get
those
results.
Today,
we're
we
have
a
massive
recommendation
to
ensure
that
we
pivot
and
all
buses
purchase
going
forward
our
our
e-bus.
C
J
Yeah,
I
know
I,
I
appreciate
the
question
so
if
you
recall
my
response
was
consistent
in
that
there
was
people
out
there
saying
just
go
out
and
buy
electric
buses
and
they'll
pay
for
themselves.
They
don't
they
do
not
pay
for
themselves
without
the
financial
backing
of
what
the
cib
has
done
and
what
infrastructure
canada
has
done,
and
the
numbers
in
the
40-page
report
speaks
to
that.
What
everybody
was
talking
about
was
buy
electric
bus,
you
save
a
bunch
of
diesel
and
you
can
plow
that
back.
J
Many
of
those
people
didn't
understand
the
transition
cost
of
taking
a
diesel
mechanic
and
retraining
her
or
him
to
to
fix
those
vehicles,
and
many
people
didn't
understand
the
complexity
of
charging
infrastructure
which
that
market
has
exploded
exponentially
in
canada
and
us
and
watch
what
happens
with
the
biden
administration
bit
a
trillion
dollar
bill
on
infrastructure
spending.
The
market
is
going
to
just
basically
take
off
the
risk
at
the
time.
Even
two
years
ago
was
long
range
long-range,
40-foot
buses
are
proven,
they're
proven
in
cold
weather,
they're
proven
in
in
our
weather.
J
The
diesel
heater
that
we
just
spoke
about
that's
a
check
in
the
box
and
the
pieces
of
the
puzzle
came
together
from
the
financial
piece
from
cib,
which
the
the
fine
print
on
that
deal
is
very
important.
It
says,
and,
and
wendy
can
attest
to
this-
we
normally
don't
go
get
third
party
loans
because
we
can
get
better
rates.
J
Many
agencies
that
are
in
the
transportation
business
want
to
be
transporters
and
they
want
to
be
in
the
energy
business.
I
don't
want
to
be
in
the
energy
business
you
own,
a
strategic
partner
with
amazing,
talented
people
that
know
this
business
inside
out
and
bryce.
You
know
coined
a
phrase
and
I
love
it.
I've
been
using
it
we're
going
with
the
netflix
model
and
this
big
bus
arrangement.
J
We
drive
the
buses
we
plug
them
in
and
maintain
them
hydro.
Ottawa
maintains.
You
know
that
the
other
portions
of
the
infrastructure,
which
is
very
very
complicated
things,
came
together
very
quickly
on
the
financial
and
in
terms
of
the
technology
40-foot
long-range
buses.
There
are
no
concerns
that
we're
aware
of
out
in
the
industry
and
all
the
other
announcements
that
you've
heard
out
there
about
moving
their
fleets
to
a
certain
state.
J
Didn't
have
this
robust
plan
behind
it,
and
I
know
that
many
other
municipalities
since
we've
tabled
our
report
are
calling
us
and
asking
for
our
advice
as
to
how
we
did
it.
It's
because
we've
got
great
partnerships.
You've
got
talented
people,
you
have
a
great
hydro
authority,
which
is
the
envy
of
many
and
we're
leveraging
all
those
assets.
And
you
have
you
had
a
strategic
direction
that
you
wanted
us
to
aim
for
what
are
the
concerns
going
forward?
It's
what
we've
articulated
in
the
report
and
also
does
the
technology
keep
up.
J
There's
a
double-decker
bus
right
now
in
california.
That
new
flyer
will
will
lend
to
us.
Hopefully,
at
the
end
of
this
year,
that's
being
tested
a
nova
bus
introduced,
a
long-range,
articulated
bus,
but
we
have
to
see
it
get
proven
in
terms
of
getting
it
built
out
and
so
forth.
So,
yes,
things
did
shift,
but
we're
focusing
on
the
40-foot
buses
which
are
robust
and
reliable,
and
you
now
have
the
funding
model.
J
C
J
C
B
And
hopefully
everybody
can
hear
me
just
to
make
sure
my
mic's
on.
Thank
you
so
of
the
billion
roughly.
Let's
start
with
the
grant,
the
the
money
that
will
be.
That's
not
repayable
we're
forecasting
between
35
to
50
percent
of
that
that'll
come
in
from
infrastructure,
canada
and
eligibility
requirements
and
the
rules
around
that
to
be
confirmed.
B
But
we
also
know
that
that
program
will
be
synchronized
with
the
infrastructure
bank
program.
So
there
won't
be
a
conflict.
The
400
million
will
come
from
the
cib
from
the
bank
and
the
funds
for
that
this
will
be
from
the
savings.
So
as
as
mr
mancone
mentioned,
provided
that
you
meet
the
you
can't
meet
the
savings
plan,
then
the
portion
of
the
loan
that
would
do
won't
have
to
be
made.
You
know
by
the
end
of
the
term
terminal.
B
B
C
B
C
B
C
C
This
is
the
direction
we're
going
we're
going
to
have
a
significant
analysis
after
five
years
and
then
we'll
ask
you
to
commit
after
the
five
years.
Why
make
a
statement
now
that
all
future
bus
purchases
are
going
to
be
this?
We
haven't
even
tested
one
but
bust.
Yet
this
is
I'm
just
raising
caution
and
concern
that
I've
heard
and
I
have-
I
definitely
want
to
go
in
this
direction,
but
why
not
say
for
the
next
five
years?
J
Counselor
just
for
clarification,
it
does
not
specify
the
technology,
it
says
zero
emission,
so
that
is
a
mirroring
of
the
council
direction
that
you
gave
in
your
climate
plan.
You
said,
get
to
zero
emission
by
20,
20,
36
or
whatever.
That
date
is.
This
is
a
confirmation
of
that.
It
doesn't
say
electric.
C
C
C
Why
not
come
back
to
the
transit
commission
and
say:
look
we've
negotiated
the
terms
of
this
agreement.
We
want
to
go
through
it
with
you.
We
still
don't
know
what
percentage
of
the
grant
is.
We
don't
know
the
terms
of
that
loan
again.
I
would
feel
very
comfortable
having
a
review
of
here's.
What
we've
negotiated,
we're
ready
to
sign.
Here's
why
this
is
good
for
the
city
of
ottawa
and
seek
that
endorsement
at
that
time,
it's
a
billion
dollars.
J
J
And,
of
course,
if
things
go
sideways
and
we
don't
land
some
of
the
critical
things
like
the
stacking
rules
and
for
those
that
aren't
aware
what
that
means
is
that's
applying
grants
on
top
of
grants.
If
those
things
go
sideways
on
us
and
this
deal
comes
apart,
we
can
certainly
notify
you
before
then,
but
I'm
happy
to
take
direction
that
we
will
check
in
as
part
of
our
budget
process.
I'd
just
like
ms
stephenson
to
comment
on
that.
C
I
don't
want
to
add
an
extra
speed,
bump
or
hurdle
in
a
process
that
may
have
some
timely
strings
attached
to
it.
But
mr
manconi,
it's
a
billion
dollars
and
my
level
of
comfort
can
be
somewhat
addressed
by
coming
before
you
sign
the
deal
wherever
this
is
on
on
the
the
grid.
Here
in
front
of
us.
You
come
back
to
the
transit
commission
and
you
just
give
us
that
overview.
C
J
Absolutely
and
and
it's
it's
been
sequenced
this
way
for.
For
that
reason,
we
are
not
granting
board
approval
to
to
hydro
or
to
infrastructure,
canada
or
anybody
to
proceed
until
council
has
the
final
say,
and
so
we
can
include
that
as
part
of
the
budgeting
table
process.
Okay,
all
the
checks
and
balances
are
in
so.
C
Chair
will
you
note
that
that
be
placed
in
the
minutes?
Please,
and
then
I
will
be
okay
with
those
two
provisions:
okay,
I'll
yield
the
floor
for
others.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
think
this
is
very
exciting.
It's
certainly
not
just
the
the
environmental
benefits
that
I
think
are
very
very
important,
but
we
need
to
go
back
to
our
communities
and
argue
why
long
term
this
is
good
economics
and
that
the
risks
which
are
there
can
be
mitigated
over
time.
So
I
really
appreciate
this
report,
but
for
us
thank
you.
A
I
I
Back
a
couple
of
years
ago
we
started
to
discuss
electrifying
our
bus
fleet
and
what
that
meant,
and
a
lot
of
the
discussion
was
just
how
fast
things
change
and-
and
you
know,
I
think
that
that
is
a
testament
to
where
we
are
today.
Things
have
changed.
Things
are
different
today
than
they
were
two
years
ago
and
in
terms
of
the
technology,
in
terms
of
you
know
what
we
know
about
zero
emission
freights
and
also
funding
sources
which
are
are
key
here.
I
So
thank
you
to
staff
and
that
the
presentation
was
was
excellent.
Actually
it
would
be
if
we
could
get
a
copy
of
it.
I
don't
know,
maybe
it's
in
the
shared
folder.
I
think
it
would
be
really
helpful
to
be
able
to
answer
some
of
the
questions
that
that
were
asked.
I
know
it's
in
the
report,
but
it
was
really
clearly
laid
out.
J
You're
absolutely
right,
counselor
and
that
was
implied
in
the
report.
We
don't
have
authority
to
bind
counsel
until
you
approve
the
budget
because
you're
putting
in
the
costs
of
what
was
then
the
diesel
buses.
So
this
I'm
not
concerned
about
it,
because
we
would
bring
back
a
report
that
says:
we've
we've
achieved
everything
that
was
outlined
in
the
report.
The
budget
reflects
that
or
or
we
had
some
minor
deviation.
Whatever
the
case,
I
can't
anticipate
what
those
deviations
would
be,
but
we'd
give
you
a
report.
J
That
would
say
here
are
the
results
of
the
negotiations
and
are
there
any
variations
for
what's
presented
in
the
presentation
in
the
report?
You
would
then
approve
that
and
then
it
would
rise
for
your
budget
approval
because
it
would
be
embedded
in
that
and
we've
been
clear,
with
the
cib
and
with
hydro
and
with
infrastructure,
canada
staff
do
not
have
the
authority
to
bind
anybody
on
this
deal
until
you
approve
the
2022
budget.
I
Okay:
okay,
okay,
that's
it
that
that
provides
me
all
all
of
the
the
clarity
that
that
I
need
and
the
assurance
that
I
think
we
need.
Is
that
commission
just
two
very
quick
questions.
Well,
one
is
more
of
a
statement.
I
think
that
I
worry
about
the
review
of
technologies
in
just
a
few
years
from
now.
I
just
don't
want
this
to
be
held
up
because
we're
off
looking
at
things
that
don't
really
work,
and
you
know
when
we
when
we
have
a
known
source
of
of
energy.
I
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that-
and
I
want
to
say
it
publicly
today
that
you
know
in
three
four
years
from
now
we're
not
going
to
see
that
number
of
new
buses
purchased
go
down
because
we're
we're
we're
looking.
You
know
we're
reviewing
other
technologies,
so
just
more
of
a
statement
really,
but
if
you
want
to
respond
to
that,
that's
fine.
J
We
are
we're
going
out
for
procurement
on
not
only
the
78,
but
also
we're
going
to
look
at
economies
of
scale
and
we're
going
to
have
options
with
will
mcdonald
and
the
procurement
team
to
say
scale
up
to
450
all
sorts
of
scenarios
in
there
the
the
constant
review
of
technology
is
no
different
than
everything
else
we
will
do.
We
will
update
you
and
again,
I
think,
right
now,
knowing
what
we
know
you're
on
only
all
our
alternative
is
hydrogen
and
there
is
no
large
scale
fleet
purchasing
that's
going
on
in
that
space.
J
I
Okay-
and
I
I
guess
I
I
was
looking
out
a
little
further
to
the
remaining
450
just
I
just
don't
want
to
see
at
any
time
as
a
stalling,
because
we're
out
looking
at
you
know
the
hydrogen
fuel
cell
source,
so
I'll
just
leave
that.
But
I
I
I
hear
what
you
I
hear
what
you've
said-
and
I
I
take
comfort
in
that
just
one
quick
question
on
our
current
buses.
Today
we
do
on
our
existing
buses.
K
I
believe
so
it
would
be
on
all
the
buses
right
now.
We
use
it
on
only
on
the
buses
that
are
stored
outdoors
it
it
might
be
a
slightly
different
model.
I
think
it's
it's
contributing
a
little
more
to
the
warmth
of
the
bus,
where
the
current
ones
are
primarily
to
keep
the
air
brake
system
warm
on
the
cold
nights.
So
I
think
it's
a
little
different,
but
it's
very
very
much
along
the
same
lines.
I
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
just
want
to
stay
publicly
that
I
I
have
no
qualms
with
going
to
a
zero
emissions
bus
fleet.
It
may
have
been
speculation
in
the
past.
I
have
no
problems
with
it
at
all.
Just
want
to
make
sure
it's
the
it's
the
right
decision
that
we
take
and
it
makes
sense
for
the
the
people
of
ottawa.
B
In
that
regard,
I
was
a
little
disappointed
that
there
was
no
no
option.
If
you
will
another
sort
of
a
counter
option,
that
is
the
the
the
costs
behind
hydrogen
fuel
cell
were
not
enunciated,
it
was
just
brought
up
and
the
the
the
limitations
were,
the
cost
of
the
buses
and
the
cost
of
producing
or
procuring
hydrogen
and
mr
antoni
or
mr
scrum
jars,
wonder
if
you
could
actually
speak
to
the
side-by-side
side-by-side
comparison
of
the
two.
K
I
I
could
say
a
few
words
about
that.
There's,
a
number
of
points
of
comparison.
I
think
the
probably
the
most
germaine
is
that
there
are
as
yet
no
large
fleet
conversions
to
hydrogen
fuel
cell
in
canada.
It
is,
it
remains
a
future
technology
where
battery
electro
buses
have
become
purchasable
off
the
shelf.
There
are,
there
are
battery
electric
buses
in
service,
as
there
will
be
here
later
this
year.
There
are
better
electric
buses
in
service
in
in
a
few
cities
across
the
the
country
there's
60
or
so
running
in
toronto.
K
There's
you
know
I
think
montreal
is
growing
up
to
36
vancouver
oakville
winnipeg
edmonton
has
a
large
fleet,
zero
emission
bus,
sorry,
fuel
cell
buses,
hydrogen-fueled
fuel
cell
buses.
On
the
other
hand,
currently
there
are
none.
There
have
been
experimental
ones
in
the
past,
maybe
15
20
years
ago,
in
vancouver,
maybe
10
years
ago,
in
in
whistler
for
the
olympics.
There
are
currently
about
18
that
have
been
announced
as
projects
in
two
municipalities,
but
they're,
not
they're,
not
in
service
they're,
not
tested
they're,
not
they're,
not
proven.
That's
one
comparator.
K
K
B
I
would
note
that
there
are
apparently
around
the
world.
There
are
thousands
of
fuel
cell
buses
in
operation
in
asia
in
europe
in
the
united
states.
So
there
must
have
I
I
would
have
imagined
there
must
have
been
some
some
scope
to
to
gain
information
on
on
their
operations,
but
again
what
I
don't.
What
I
don't
understand
is
why
we
couldn't
see
an
all-in
cost
of
the
electric
versus
the
the
fuel
cell.
There
are
advantages
I
think
you
would
grab
mr
scrimmage
or
mr
manconi.
There
are
advantages
to
the
hydrogen
fuel
cell.
B
Certainly
don't
have
the
huge
transition
cost
that
that
we
would
have
with
electric.
So,
as
I
say,
I'm
disappointed
that
that's
not
there
and
that
we
have
less
information
on
which
to
base
a
decision,
I'm
not
against.
As
I
said,
I'm
not
against
going
to
zero
emission,
but
it's
really
tough
when
it's
kind
of
like
a
take
it
or
needed
approach
which
this
feels
a
bit
like.
B
But
in
that
regard
I
wonder
too,
by
by
going
solely
with
electric
for
the
next
five
years
and
getting
a
substantial
part
of
the
fleet
to
be
electric
for
the
next
five
years.
What
we're
doing
is
we're
almost
making
it
well
we're
certainly
making
much
more
difficult
to
transition
out
of
electric
into
a
new
technology,
because
there
would
have
been
so
much
in
some
costs
that
getting
out
of
that
would
be
very,
very
expensive
if
not
prohibitively
so,
and
in
that
regard,
I
wonder,
is
it
possible?
B
J
Answer
very
very
good
questions,
and
I
just
if
I
could
I'll
start
with
the
hydrogen
piece.
First
off
canada
infrastructure
bank
is
agnostic
to
what
zero
emission
buses
any
jurisdiction
chooses.
In
other
words,
they
will
fund
other
than
electric.
Also,
if
there's
zero
emissions,
but
right
now
to
exactly
your
point
in
canada-
and
yes,
I
mean
even
with
electric
buses
and
hybrid
buses,
there's
lots
of
stuff
going
around
the
world,
but
you've
got
to
look
at
the
rules
and
the
regulations
and
the
weight
restrictions
there.
The
math
simply
does
not
work
with
hydrogen.
J
The
savings
are
not
there
because
of
the
cost
of
fuel,
the
market,
the
size
availability
and
you
cannot
get
the
large-scale
purchase
that
I
doubt
very
much.
We'd
even
be
able
to
get
78
buses
or
74
buses,
so
the
math
doesn't
work
there
and
I'd
be
happy
to
sit
down
with
you
and
go
through
some
of
those
pieces
with
you
on
that
again,
but
we're
not
closing
the
door
on
hydrogen
that
may
evolve
in
the
future
and
and
that
annual
check
in
with
you.
We
will
do
that
so
and
I
I
speak.
J
You
know
I've
been
in
this
business
over
30
years.
I've
been
through.
I
was
counting
them
up
the
other
day.
I
think
I've
been
through
eight
fuels
in
my
career
and
the
advice
that
I've
always
heeded
is
don't
be
bleeding
edge,
be
leading
edge.
You
know
I,
I
was
part
of
a
group
in
my
early
days
that
pulled
out
propane
tanks
out
of
vehicles
because
propane
didn't
save
the
planet
like
it
was
supposed
to.
J
I
was
part
of
a
group
that
looked
at
colored,
diesel
and
and
biodiesel
and
so
forth,
going
aggressively
and
doing
large-scale
conversions
without
proven
technology
is
risky.
And
yes,
this
is
a
big
decision
before
you.
So
I
like
the
dialogue
that
I'm
hearing
today,
it's
it's
incremental.
There's
an
annual
check-in.
Does
the
math
work?
Does
the
technology
work?
How
have
we
de-risked
it
and
so
forth?
J
Hydrogen
is
coming,
it's
just
not
there,
and
I
know
hydrogen
from
a
reference
point
where
all
stem
at
the
time
was
talking
to
us
about
doing
some
of
the
trial
tests.
They
did
with
trains
out
in
germany.
It
just
wasn't
proven
at
the
time,
so
hydrogen
will
will
come.
We
need
to
let
it
evolve
if
you're,
looking
after
zero
emission
bus
buses,
which
is
your
direction
in
your
council
report.
J
Your
choice
right
now
is
electric
the
other
ones
and
trolleys
which
but
trolley,
have
the
infrastructure
associated
with
and
so
forth,
and
you
need
the
network
so
we're
not
closing
the
door
on
hydrogen
forever.
At
some
point,
you
got
to
pick
a
lane
and
and
jump
in
we're
jumping
in
cautiously,
and
we
have
given
you
the
risks
and
we've.
Given
you,
the
math
associated
with
those
risks
and
the
hydrogen
peace.
Just
isn't
there
right
now.
H
H
H
A
B
J
B
Capital
terms,
I
think
it's
about
200
odd
million.
It's
on
that.
One
slide
that
mr
scriventer
provided
earlier
that
doesn't
incorporate
the
annual
maintenance
cost.
The
manual
maintenance
cuts
are
built
in
to
the
forecast
we
prepared
as
well,
but
we'd
have
to
pull
that
number
out
separately.
I
don't
have
that
in
permit
right
now,
but
it's
built
into
the
summary
of
the
total
cost
that
you
saw
that's
on.
I
think
it's
slide
43
that
shows
you,
the
the
986
and
how
it's
been
broken
down.
I'd
have
to
add
that
up
separately.
B
All
of
the
contracts
will
have
to
align
that
way.
That's
right!
All
of
the
agreements,
the
funding
agreement,
infrastructure
bank,
a
lending
agreement
with
the
canadian
infrastructure
bank,
the
funding
agreement
with
with
infrastructure,
canada
and
your
maintenance
agreement
with
hydro
ottawa.
I
would
just
say
the
maintenance
agreement.
You
have
to
think
about
what
you
do
after
the
fact,
but
they're
all
going
to
line
up
roughly
in
terms
of
50
or
15-year
life
cycle
of
the
of
the
buses
that
you're
you're
purchasing.
B
B
B
J
Great
question:
so
unless
council
injects
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
into
the
transit
affordability
plan,
you
you
can't
do
large-scale
conversion,
you
could
do
some
minor
incremental
pieces
or,
if
there's
any
other,
funding
announcements
that
were
to
occur.
So,
yes,
the
pieces
need
to
come
together
for
it
to
work
at
this
scope
and
scale
and
to
achieve
your
council
approved
targets.
J
We
will,
but
on
stacking
I
can
tell
you
that
the
staff
level,
and
certainly
at
the
political
level
you
know
from
the
founding
announcements,
everybody
believes
the
stacking
rules
will
be
sorted
out.
There's
been
a
lot
of
work
done
on
that
at
the
staff
level.
They
understand
that
that
needs
to
be
a
clear
path
and
again
that
speaks
to
the
check-in
that
I
will
or
that
my
replacement
will
provide
you
in
december.
B
K
The
buses
will
be
specified
to
work
under
the
same
conditions
that
our
current
buses
are,
that
they
have
to
work
under
the
complete
range
of
temperatures
that
we
experience
in
ottawa
and
that'll
be
from
climate
data.
I
I
believe
the
number
is
somewhere
around
minus
26.
Minus
27
is
the
you
know
the
coldest
it
gets.
So
we
you
know
in
approximate
terms,
we
need
a
bus
that
runs
between
minus
25
and
plus
35.
J
In
a
problem,
if
I
could
just
add
to
that,
I
think
you
know
the
concern
is
the
buses
will
run
the
issue.
Is
the
battery
draw?
Yes
to
your
point
and
that's
that's
the
challenge.
The
buses
will
operate,
it's
just.
How
quickly
will
it
draw
on
the
the
battery
for
heat
and
cooling
and
everybody
talks
about
the
winter,
the
summer's
just
as
tough
yeah
and
and
so
that's
the
thing
on.
You
know
back
to
my
opening
two
slides
all
those
pieces
how
they
fit
in
and
that's
why
we
wanted
long
range.
J
B
B
We
haven't
yet
discussed
that
today,
but
I
hope
that's
certainly
something
on
our
radar
and
you
know
in
talks
with
gatineau
and
sto.
I
don't
know
if
this
has
come
up
at
all
in
those
discussions,
but
it's
something
that
I
think
we
should
definitely
keep
our
our
eyes
on.
Have
you
had
any
of
those
initial
discussions
with
gatineau?
Obviously,
pollution
is
is
not
just
in
ottawa
right
and
we
want
to
mirror
that
across
the
region.
J
We
we've
done
a
lot
of
the
procurement
pieces,
such
as
work
with
metrolinx
and
so
forth,
and,
yes,
we
will
open
it
up
to
to
anybody,
that's
interested
through
our
cuter
relationships.
If
there's
an
appetite
for
that,
we
are
a
little
bit
further
ahead
than
others
in
terms
of
the
scope
and
scale,
and
we
will
do
some
market
sounding
to
hear
what
the
industry
says
and
recommends.
Also.
B
B
B
B
J
In
summary,
yes,
I
mean
that
speaks
to
all
the
due
diligence
piece
on
the
tendering
piece.
These
buses
do
go
through
vigorous
testing
and
our
our
focus
is
your
focus
in
terms
of
year-round
performance,
and
it
goes
just.
It
goes
even
past.
Just
the
performance,
okay,
josh,
the
we're
embedding
what
the
criteria
will
be
for
the
loan
repayment
in
the
event
that
the
buses
don't
meet,
for
example
the
savings
that
were
projected.
J
So
it
speaks
to
exactly
this
point
about
performance,
savings
and
so
forth,
because
it
is
for
15
years
so
the
buses
have
to
perform
not
just
really
well
at
the
beginning,
but
throughout
the
15
years,
the
battery
replacement
program,
all
those
things.
So
when
we
talk
about
a
lot
of
work
being
done
between
now
and
when
we're
in
front
of
you
at
the
budget
time,
that's
some
of
the
due
diligent
piece
that
we're
talking
about,
and
then
I
I
have
to
give
credit
to
qtric
and
to
cuda
and
other
organizations.
J
B
The
other
quick
follow-up
is,
is
the
discussion
around
hydrogen
because
john
you
and
I
have
discussed
the
you
know
where
we
go
with
the
bus
fleet
several
times
over
the
last
number
of
years,
and
the
sense
then,
was
you,
you
were.
You
were
a
booster
of
of
hydrogen.
You
thought
that
that
was
was
a
was
a
good
technology.
B
This
this
report
is
is,
is
you
know,
fair
to
say
a
pivot
from
that
that
sort
of
approach
or
that
sort
of
position
heard
to
talk
about
cost?
Are
you?
Are
you
satisfied
that
this
is
the
right
direction,
because,
as
one
of
my
colleagues
pointed
out,
we
don't
we
didn't
get
a
side-by-side
comparison,
necessarily
or
or
an
options.
B
Sort
of
approach
with
the
report
so
are.
Are
you?
Are
you
satisfied
that
that
hydrogen
is
not
the
answer
today
or
or
for
that
matter,
any
other
kind
of
technology,
but
electric
is
where
we
should
be
going
forward
and
again
with
that
proviso
that
we
can
adjust
as
we
go
forward
as
long
as
we
stay
within
the
zero
emission
targets
that
we
we
set
for
you,
but
but
are
you
comfortable
with
staff
comfortable
that
that
that
hydrogen
at
this
juncture
anyway,
is
properly
off
the
table?.
J
So
it's
it's
not
a
just
a
john
manconi
question:
it's
to
the
team.
You
know:
experts
from
hydro
ottawa
experts
from
cib
by
the
way,
cib
hired
an
independent
firm
to
do
an
assessment
before
they
rolled
out
their
their
loan
program,
and
it
spoke
to
all
of
these
questions
about
technologies.
What
zero
emission
is?
I
will
repeat
it
again.
I
was
on
the
call
with
zia,
with
cib
yesterday
confirming
that
they
are
not
agnostic
to
the
technology.
J
I
don't
know
how
you
achieve
your
council
approved
policy
of
getting
to
zero
emission
buses
and
at
some
point
you
gotta
you
gotta
proceed
and
we're
proceeding
in
a
caution,
structured
fashion
that
aligns
with
all
the
principles
we've
talked
about
the
report
in
the
presentation.
So
absolutely
behind
the
report.
Everybody
on
this
team
is
behind
the
report
and
and
we're
quite
proud
of
it,
because
we
think
it's
actually
a
model
for
others
to
follow.
B
Just
one
last
question
clarification,
so
we
you
know:
we've
we've
been
in
situations
before
where
we've
we've
bought
the
product
that
we
can
afford
or
the
product
that
we
think
is
most
reasonably
priced
and
we've
had
some
issues
arising
from
that
and
again
in
that
comparison,
are
you
satisfied
that
it's
not
just
electric
for
cost,
but
it's
electric
for
cost,
plus
technology
benefits
or
deficits
that
we
would
see
with
any
other
kind
of
model?
At
this
point,
it's
for
all
of
it.
Yes,
okay,
thanks
very
much
appreciate
that.
G
Thanks
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
to
to
our
staff
for
this
report.
Wow,
I
just
what
what
a
fantastic
transition,
what
a
great
report
to,
I
think
the
the
risk
analysis
that
you've
done
and
having
that
up
with
the
mitigation
factors.
That's
that's
something
we
should
be
doing
almost
every
report.
I
think,
because
that
really
shows
you.
You
know
where
we're
mitigating
and
risks
are
not
a
bad
thing.
G
You
know
a
transition,
certainly,
and
the
financial
argument
may
not
have
been
there
previously,
but
with
the
federal
government
coming
to
the
table.
This
makes
sense,
and
you
know
I
think
you
can
look
at
the
ttc
and
what
they're
doing
they've
got.
I
think
it's
60,
now
60
or
more
electric
buses
on
their
roads
and
they're
they're
also
purchasing
up
another
300
to
come
in
in
mid-20s
2020s
for
them,
and
so
we're
we're
going
to
be
a
leader
absolutely.
G
But
there
has
been
other
testing
in
north
america.
That
does
show
that
that
this
does
seem
to
seem
to
work.
Well,
the
benefits
beyond
just
the
reduction
in
greenhouse
gases
are
there
as
well.
You
know
when
you
think
about
the
savings
on
the
fuel
side,
that
will
be
there,
the
the
quieter
technology
on
our
urban
streets
and
through
our
residences,
in
both
suburban
and
urban
neighborhoods.
That
is
a
huge
benefit
as
well,
and
the
transition
to
to
this
technology
is
not
just
you
know,
not
just.
G
I
guess,
for
ottawa's
own
climate
goals
that
this
sort
of
speaks
to
a
broader
transition
to
a
bigger
modal
share
in
the
city
towards
transit.
If
you're,
just
thinking
about
battling
the
climate
problem
with
electrifying
individual
personal
vehicles,
that's
not
going
to
do
it
there's
a
huge,
huge
transition
that
that
has
to
happen
there.
This
is
the
solution
where
you
you
go
on
the
transit
side.
You
have
walking,
you
have
a
biking
and
other
modal
share
opportunities
for
people.
G
It's
a
combination
of
those
things,
and
so
this
is
a
big
part
of
our
plan
and
the
climate
plan.
I
can
tell
you,
when
talking
with
staff
on
the
the
climate
change
emergency
and
our
and
our
our
plan
that
we've
put
in
place
now,
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
meet
our
our
targets
without
this.
This
is
a
big
big
part
of
that
and
there's
going
to
be
other
offsetting
benefits.
C
G
Say
a
huge
kudos
to
staff
that
was
an
excellent
report.
I
read
through
the
other
compendium
pieces
as
well
that
have
been
previously
produced
and
other
municipalities.
This
is
a
this
is
a
big
deal
and
should
be
congratulated
on
it.
So
thank
you
for
what
you've
done,
I'm
so
happy
to
see
that
grant
piece
as
well
just
going
with
the
cib
on
on
their
interest
for
the
loan.
I
don't
think
makes
sense,
so
that
grant
is
so
important
to
to
combine
with
that
other
piece.
A
Thank
you,
councilman
eric.
I
said
one
question
for
you,
mr
manconi.
If
you
could
address
this
for
me,
please
I
I
want
to
get
some
assurance
for
the
residents
of
canada
stittsville
and
bear
haven
that
reaching
this
deal
with
the
federal
government
in
no
way
jeopardizes
the
plans
for
phase
three
of
lrt.
J
Chair
absolutely
so
the
beauty
of
this
plan
because
of
the
funding
from
our
partners
is
it
keeps
you
whole.
So
we
were
very
candid
up
front.
What
we
had
to
contribute
was
the
cost
of
diesel
buses.
We
didn't.
We
were
not
going
to
start
mining
into
the
transit
affordability
plan
or
any
other
capital
account.
So
wendy
wendy
can
confirm
that,
but
you
are
kept
whole
in
terms
of
your
current
transit
affordability
plan
wendy.
Did
you
want
to
comment
on
that.
D
A
H
Yes,
it's
not
going
to
be
a
long
set
of
questions
everyone
so
you'll
get
to
your
lunches.
I
promise
so
I
just
I
kind
of
want
to
understand
that
the
surplus
right
so
there's
a
surplus
as
a
result
of
the
safe
restart
funding
from
the
federal
government.
You
know,
there's
a
surplus
of,
I
think
it's
3.138
million
dollars,
and
so
I
just
kind
of
want
to
understand.
H
What's
the
go
forward
plan
with
respect
to
this
surplus
and
and
do
we
expect
any
additional
funding,
I
I
believe
ms
stephanin
said
that
we're
essentially
whole
until
the
end
of
the
year
in
terms
of
our
funding.
So
I
just
kind
of
want
to
understand
what
we're
doing
with
the
surplus
and
what's
the
sort
of
go
forward
plan.
D
Well,
thank
you
very
much,
commissioner
right
gilbert,
so
I
think
there's
a
distinction
that
I'll
make
here
in
terms
of
where
we're
at
for
quarter
one.
So
on
the
covid
side,
we
are
whole
because
we
have
received
funding
through
the
safe
restart
agreement,
which
means
we
have
no
covet
deficit.
As
a
result
of
what's
happened.
D
On
the
non-covet
side,
we
have
a
small
surplus
of
3.1
million
dollars
and
that
is
largely
related
to
I'm
going
to
say
a
staffing
or
compensation
costs
our
plan,
as
we
always
do.
We
will
come
back
to
you
in
quarter
two
with
an
outlook
as
to
where
we're
at
and
that
outlook
will
include
quarter
two
as
well
as
year
end.
H
Thank
you
for
for
clarifying
that
money.
Stuff
is
not
my
forte,
so
I
always
appreciate
it
when
someone
can
can
sort
of
explain
it
to
me
in
layman's
terms.
I
guess
my
follow-up
is.
Is
that
so
at
previous
transfer
commission
meetings,
I
think
it
was
back
in
february
or
march,
we
approved
some
service.
Well,
there
was
some
debate
around
what
we
were
going
to
call
them
adjustments.
I
think
we
agreed
on
to
save
about
five
million
dollars.
H
We
now
have
a
surplus
of
3.1
million
dollars
or
just
over
that-
and
so
I
suppose
my
question
is-
is
that
that
savings
of
five
million
dollars
is
that
surplus
sort
of
part
of
that
five
million
dollar
savings
or
did
it?
I
guess
I'm
not
asking
this
properly,
but
essentially
like
did
we
make
those
changes
too
soon.
Did
we
make
those
adjustments,
those
cuts
too
soon,
given
that
we
now
have
a
surplus
situation.
J
No,
we
did,
we
didn't
make
those
cuts
too
soon.
Remember
you
had
plan
a
plan
b
and
plan
c
yeah
and
we're
trying
to
avoid
you
having
to
get
into
plan
b,
which
was
got
another
30
million
dollars
out
of
your
capital
program,
and
you
saw
the
importance
of
that
today
and
plan
c
was
the
drastic
remember.
We
brought
you
the
criteria
for
deep,
deep
cuts,
so
the
three
million
dollars
right
now
that's
staff
taking
care
of
every
nickel
and
dime.
J
They
can
the
june
changes
which
are
rolling
out
you've
seen
the
psas
on
that
get
you
five
million
dollars
in
in
cost
reductions.
We
have
a
long
way
to
go
to
get
to
the
end
of
the
year,
because
we
don't
know
where
ridership
is
going
right
in
terms
of
all
the
changes.
So
it's
conservative,
it's
absolutely
the
right
move
and
then
what
you
have
waiting
in
2022
is
that
if,
if
ridership
does
not
pick
up,
your
5
million
gets
annualized
and
it
goes
up
to
about
11
million
dollars.
J
So
we
were
trying
to
give
you
every
tool
to
avoid
massive,
deep,
deep
cuts
rather
than
these
adjustments
in
june.
So
we
we
think
it's
absolutely
the
right
thing.
We're
pleased
we're
in
a
surplus
again,
the
envy
of
many
you've
done
all
that
without
massive
cuts-
and
you
know
hopefully
ridership
picks
up
and,
as
we
said
in
the
report,
if
things
turn
quickly,
I
mean
when
ms
stephens
and
I
talk
weekly.
J
If
we
see
ridership
accelerating
and
revenues
catching
up
and
and
we
you
know,
we
have
to
back
off
and
add
service,
we
can
always
add
service
in
in
q4.
I
doubt
that's
where
we're
going
to
be,
but
we
also
doubt
we're
gonna
have
to
do
any
more
deep
adjustments,
because
we've
been
very
cautious
in
our
moves.
H
No,
it
does
and
thank
you
for
understanding
my
question,
because
I
I
apparently
lost
the
ability
to
speak
the
english
language
through
part
of
it.
So
I
I
appreciate
you
understanding
and
speaking
sarah.
So
no
those
are
all
my
questions.
I
I
really
just
wanted
to
understand
this
surplus
situation
and
was
concerned
that
we'd
made
these
cuts,
perhaps
a
bit
too
soon,
but
I
feel
comfortable
with
with
the
path
that
we've
taken.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
that.
Thank
you,
mr
chair.