►
Description
The Committee on Fiscal Stability and Intergovernmental Cooperation of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Wednesday, September 29, 2021, at 10:00 AM to hear testimony on the following items:
200406 Resolution authorizing the Committee on Fiscal Stability and Intergovernmental Cooperation to hold quarterly hearings that include monthly reporting requirements, to discuss the fiscal position and overarching social impact goals of the City, including and as related to the Five Year Plan and the reporting requirements set forth in the Quarterly City Manager’s Report (“QCMR”) and as submitted to the Pennsylvania Intergovernmental Cooperation Authority (“PICA”).
B
Thank
you.
I
just
want
to
first
give
a
shout
out
to
modesto
and
the
tech
team
and
the
city
for
making
all
these
things
possible
these
last
18
months.
Without
you
guys,
we
wouldn't
be
having
these
hearings.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
all
your
work.
It's
great
so
good
morning,
everyone
this
hearing
is
called
to
order.
I
recognize
the
presence
of
a
quorum
of
committee
members,
members
of
the
committee
in
attendance.
B
B
B
So
thank
you
good
to
see
you.
I
want
to
thank
everybody
for
being
here.
I
don't
I'm
not
going
to
give
any
kind
of
speech.
I
think
you
should
get
right
to
the
heart
of
the
topic.
So,
let's
start
with
our
first
panel,
which
I
believe
is
harvey
rice
and
bob
dubo
and
lisa
wax.
F
Good
morning,
councilman
dom
and
members
of
the
city,
fiscal
stability
and
their
governmental
cooperation
committee.
As
you
know,
my
name
is
harvey
rice
and
the
executive
director
of
pennsylvania
intergovernmental
cooperation
authority,
which
is
a
state
oversight
agency
for
the
city
of
philadelphia.
F
Again,
I
appreciate
you
giving
me
the
opportunity
to
testify
today
and
to
speak
about
pika's
report
on
the
quarterly
city
manager's
report
for
the
fourth
quarter
of
fiscal
year,
2021,
which
encompassed
the
the
april
may
and
june
months,
as
well
as
pika's
report.
Recent
reports
on
city
revenues,
obligations
and
overtime
through
august,
and
also
our
recent
comparison
of
the
reserve
and
fund
balance
with
other
cities
throughout
the
united
states.
F
I
have
prepared
a
because
of
time
constraints
a
short
powerpoint
presentation,
with
the
highlights
that
I
of
the
reports
that
I
just
mentioned.
F
Okay,
the
numbers
this
is
for
the
last
quarter
of
fy
2021..
The
fund
balance
was
projected
in
the
five-year
plan
of
51.3.
F
It's
projected
for
the
last
quarter
to
rise
by
to
78.8
million,
and
if
you
look
at
compared
to
last
year,
how
significantly
lower
it
is,
it
was
all
it
was.
Almost
300
million
projected
the
actual
of
last
fy
2020,
and
it
also
must
be
noted
that
out
of
that
78.8
million
26.5
million
is
money
from
the
the
the
arp
money
from
the
federal
government.
F
Revenues
was
projected
at
4.615
billion,
the
actual
is
4.833
billion,
so
that
was
higher,
but
also
that
includes
federal
money
in
those
numbers,
obligations
was
projected
a
little
under
five
billion
and
the
actual
is
just
a
little
over
five
billion.
B
F
B
More
point
so
just
to
be
clear
from
this
slice.
I
make
sure
I
understand
this.
The
fund
balance
this
year
is
almost
212
million
lower
than
it
was
last
year.
Yes,
yes
and
revenues
will
be
almost
whatever
that
differential
is
like
150
million
or
more
yes,
200,
200
and
just
doing
the
math.
If
I
had
220
roughly
less
in
revenue,
yes
and
the
obligations,
though,
are
lower
by
about
10
19
18
17
million,
roughly
roughly
yes,
okay,
so
I
just
want
to
make
sure
we're.
Okay!
Thank
you.
I'm
sorry.
F
These
are
the
this
slide
shows
the
projected
revenues
and
obligations
not
only
compared
to
last
year,
but
compared
to
the
five-year
plan.
So
you
can
see
that
in
revenues,
the
five-year
plan
projection
was
4.5
billion
and
and
the
q4
projection
rose
to
4.6
billion
and
same
with
obligations.
F
We
see
the
actual
of
fy20
at
a
little
over
5
billion,
the
five-year
projection
for
fy21
was
slower
at
4.8
billion,
but
it
comes
into
the
cor.
The
fourth
quarter
projection
higher
than
the
five-year
plan
projection
by
what
we
just
discussed
about
a
120
million
dollars.
F
F
As
I
discussed,
the
78.8
million
projected
for
the
last
quarter
increase
of
over
27
million
from
the
five-year
plan,
as
I
also
mentioned
due
to
the
influx
of
the
arp
funds,
and
this
just
slide
just
shows
you
revenues
by
type
of
the
different
categories
of
revenues
and
as
you
can
see,
the
revenues
that
took
a
hit
during
the
fourth
quarter
and
and
during
the
actually
the
whole
year
of
fy21
were
parking.
F
Amusement
beverage,
wage
and
earnings
and
wage
and
earnings
took
the
biggest
hit,
and
that
was
that's
mostly
due
to
the
refunds
for
non-philadelphia
employees
that
work
for
companies
or
in
the
city.
F
And
then
we
look
at
staffing
and
it's
continuing
to
decline
through
the
year,
the
months
and
the
year
and
a
half
of
the
pandemic
and
then
over
time
declined
also
by
about
11
over
fy21
over
fy20
and
and
then
this
just.
This
slide
shows
you
by
department
over
time
for
21s
compared
to
overtime
for
fy
22
through
august.
So
these
are
the
more
updated
numbers
on
overtime.
This
is
august
of
fy22.
F
F
And
then
we
look
at
performance
targets
and
measures.
This
was
this
is
since
the
pandemic.
F
It's
been
very
hard
because
targets
and
performance
measures
are
are
constantly,
are
changing
a
lot
because
of
the
pandemic
and
to
to
fulfill
the
needs
and
the
services
that
decision
that
were
needed
during
the
pandemic,
but
we're
still
looking
at
them
and
we're
we're
looking
forward
to
when
the
city
gets
back
through
the
pandemic,
and
then
we
can
better
assess
the
targets
and
the
performance
measures
that
each
department
puts
forward
in
the
plan
and
in
the
quarterly
reports.
F
So
we
also
looked
at
we.
We
followed
the
tax
revenues
monthly,
so
we
wanted
to
give
you
an
update
through
august,
which
is
the
last
ones
that
we
reported
on
and,
as
you
can
see,
we're
slightly
below
in
revenues
collections
from
august
of
21
to
august
of
22.
through
year
to
date,
were
I
can't.
F
You're
a
date
we're
about
10
percent
lower
about
44
million
dollars.
F
And
then
obligations
again
we're
report
through
august.
If
you
look
at
fy
22,
which
is
the
current
year,
we're
in
we're
slightly
we're
slightly
above
fy
22,
but
as
we
all
we've
noticed
since
we've
been
monitoring
the
budget
obligations
since
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic,
that
the
early
months
you'll
see
more
obligations
and
more
payments
because
of
debt
service
and
encumbered
contracts,
and
then
at
our
annual
meeting
in
july.
When,
when
the
the
board
considered
and
approved
the
plan,
it
was
requested
by
the
board.
F
So
they
were
concerned
about
the
low
fund
balance
and
the
very
few
reserve
contributions
over
the
course
one.
Since
the
budget
stabilization
reserve
fund
has
had
was
established
so
pika
staff
reviewed
18
cities
that
have
reserve
funds
in
the
united
states.
So
we
looked
at
the
reserve
funds
how
they
come
to
the
reserve
fund,
how
they
contribute
to
the
reserve
fund
and
we've
also
looked
at
at
their
fund
balances
and
and
what
we
found-
and
this
is
just
one
slide
of
our
report-
that
we
we
issued
last
week.
F
That
philadelphia
is
both
near
the
bottom
and
and
to
to
get
the
best
way
to
compare.
Because
it's
not
apples
to
apples,
each
city
has
a
different
way
of
of
coming
to
their
fund
balance
and
also
different
ways
of
contributing
or
criteria
for
for
the
reserve
funds
or
or
rainy
day
funds.
So
we
we
looked
at
their.
F
We
went
to
every
city's,
comprehensive
annual
financial
report,
the
kafir
report
and
looked
at
the
unaudited
numbers
that
were
left
for
the
fund
balance
and
and
compared
that
to
other
cities
and
then
and
we
and
as
a
percent
of
obligations
for
both
the
fund
balance
and
the
this.
The
budget,
stabilization
budget,
stabilization,
reserve
or
rainy
day
fund,
different
cities,
call
it
different
names
and
that's
how
we
came
up
with
this
data
and
this
information.
F
So,
as
you
can
see
on
the
reserve
funds
and-
and
we
and
we
looked
at
three
years-
17
18,
19
and
20.-
I'm
I'm
showing
you
there.
They
were
very
similar
in
each
of
the
three
years.
This
slide
is
for
fy
20..
As
you
can
see
in
the
reserve
funds.
The
city
is
low.
Third,
at
the
bottom
of
the
18
cities
and
and
the
fund
balances
were
also
low,
number
five
on
fund
balances.
F
So
so
what
we
reported
is
that
where
other
cities
had
very
high
fund
balances-
or
they
had
criterion
measures
to
put
for
a
reserve
fund
that
when,
when
tough
times
hit,
they
can
go
and
and
have
something
to
fall
back
on
to
get
them
through
that
event,
whether
it's
the
pandemic,
whether
it's
in
new
orleans,
if
they
they
had
a
rainy
day
fund
for
the
hurricanes
or
and
like
portland,
has
it
for
high
unemployment.
F
So,
as
we've
been
saying
all
along
in
in
in
our
annual
reports,
the
need
for
the
city
to
have
a
rainy
day
fund
and
commit
to
contributing
to
that
fund
so
that
when
events
such
as
pandemic
hits,
which
we
were
at
that
point,
we
had
34
over
34
million
dollars,
which
was
used
the
following
year
for
to
help
us
through
the
the
pandemic
event.
So
so
that's
that's.
My
presentation
on
feel
free
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
B
Okay,
thank
you
very
much,
mr
rice.
We
go
back
to.
I
want
to
make
something
clear.
There
was
a
chart,
you
showed
of
revenues
and
expenses
how
we're
doing
this
year
and
I
think
our
revenues
were
up
like
33
million
on
the
chart
and
the
expenses
were
up
like
80
or
85
million.
I
think
it's
before.
B
Before
that
one,
there
you
go
well,
this
is
yeah.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
understand,
so
you
the.
I
don't
think
this
was
it.
There
was
a
chart
that
showed
that
for
this
year
on
our
projection
for
21,
because
this
this
chart's
not
showing
the
projection
or
the
actual
for
21
right.
This
is
just
showing
the
projection.
You
have
the
actuals
for
21
of
income
and
expenses
and
if.
B
B
F
Well,
I
think
what
we
we
found
was
like
certain
city
cities
such
as
houston
and
I
believe
la
they
have
it
where,
if
they
dip
into
their
fund,
then
so
houston,
I
think,
has
a
15
million
or
25
million
they
have
to
have
in
that
fund.
So
if
they
dip
into
that
and
say
in
f1
21,
and
they
take
10
million
out
of
that,
then
in
fy
22
their
budget.
They
have
to
put
that
money
right
back
in
there,
so
they
have
to
keep
it
at
that
level.
F
So
that's
one
idea:
some
cities
look
at
the
rate
of
revenue
growth
so
that
if
it's
over
a
certain
percentage-
and
they
all
have
different
percentages-
some
at
two
2.5
up
to-
I
think
4.5,
so
that
if
their
revenues
come
in
over
or
they're
projected
to
come
in
over
that
or
come
in
over
that,
then
that
percentage
of
that
overflow
is
then
put
into
a
reserve
fund.
F
So
that
basically
goes
to
the
point
when
in
good
times
you
want
to
save
and
prepare
for
the
times
that
aren't
going
to
be
so
good
or
that
events
will
come
into
play
that
you,
you
might
need
extra
funds
to
get
to
get
through
that
that
period.
F
So
so
there
are
just
some
examples
of
how
the
other
cities
contribute
or
have
the
criteria
for
their
so-called
rainy
day,
funds
reserve
funds,
and
I
I
would
recommend
that
the
city
look
at
our
report
and
some
of
the
recommend
we
don't
have
recommendations
in
there,
but
some
of
our
findings
and
our
conclusion
and
see
if
the,
if
it's
in
the
city's
interest
right
now
to
tweak
or
or
change
some
of
the
criteria
to
ensure
that
since
since
the
bsr
has
been
placed
since
2011's
only
made
one
contribution
in
10
years
and
that
maybe
these
new
ways
or
ways
of
the
other
cities
looking
at
it
might
we
might
be
able
to
increase
that
contribution
over
the
next
10
years.
B
Well,
the
chair
would
like
to
recognize
vice
chair
brian
o'neill,
joining
the
meeting
council
member
kathy,
gilmore,
richardson,
councilmember,
derek
green
and
council
member
kendrick
brooks
thank
you
and
council
member
jamie
godier
too.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
do
have
a
question
for
you
from
mr
rice.
Second
one
then
we're
going
to
go
to
curtis
councilman
curtis
jones.
F
No,
it's
fun
balance,
so
they're
liquid
assets
right.
The
reserve
fund
is,
if
you're
putting
money
into
the
reserve
fund.
Yes,
that's
liquid!
That's
money!
That's
put
into
that
separate
fund
that
they
can
that
the
city
following
their
criteria,
can
pull
out
either
all
of
it
or
whatever
fits
in
the
criteria.
Yes,.
B
Is
there
any
value
to
assets?
The
city
owns
that
are
not
liquidly,
such
as
real
estate
and
other
assets,
and
I'll
be
curious
as
to
know
how
philadelphia
compares
to
other
cities
as
far
as
owning
those
types
of
assets
to
see
you
know,
because
when
you
look
at
a
financial
worth
of
the
city,
it's
not
just
the
cash
and
reserves.
It's.
B
F
We
didn't
look
as
part
of
our
review.
We
did
not
did
not
look
at
that.
It's
maybe
a
possibility
that
we
could
look
at
if,
if,
if
that
data
is
available,.
B
Okay,
thank
you
councilman
jones.
I
know
you
had
a
question
jared
like
to
recognize
you.
E
Thank
you
so
much,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
staying
focused
on
our
fiscal
stability.
In
these
times.
I
cannot
imagine
a
greater
time
that
we
should
be
laser
focused
on
revenues
and
obligations,
as
we
are
right
now
in
this
point
in
time.
My
question
would
be.
We
would
be
having
a
very
different
conversation
right
now,
but
for
the
federal
bailouts
that
we
had,
and
I
want
to
recognize
that
that
we
did
receive
them
and
that
it
has
helped
us
out.
F
F
So
that's
why
we,
if,
every
every
year
in
our
annual
staff
reports
on
the
five-year
plan,
we
mention
that
that
if
the
fund
balances
are
low,
what
effect
that
might
have
on
the
city's
bond
rating,
as
you
saw
right
before
the
pandemic,
the
city
was
doing
really
well,
maybe
not
meeting
the
gfoa
recommendation
of
17
of
obligations,
but
the
city
zone.
F
They
were
meeting
for
a
few
years,
their
own
six
to
eight
percent
target
of
revenue,
so
they
they
they
had
their
fund
balances
right
before
the
pandemic
were
very
high,
were
over
400
million.
So
now,
when
we
received
the
five-year
plan
in
july,
the
numbers
were
significantly
lower
and
and
as
in
discussions
with
bond
rating
agencies,
they
they
look
at
the.
F
As
I
said,
the
the
the
amount
that's
in
a
fund
balance
for
the
city,
because
that
shows
the
financial
consistency
of
the
city
going
forward
just
in
case
some
events
happen
that
they
have
a
fund
balance
that
they
can
use
to
adjust
to
those
events.
E
Second
thing
I
would
ask
about
in
your
report:
is
the
overtime
utilization
charts
in
light
of
a
pandemic
in
light
of
departments
that
I
know
had
large
shortages
of
workforce,
whether
we're
talking
about
the
police
department,
whether
we
talk
about
the
prisons,
in
particular,
they're
undergoing
severe
outages
and
therefore
reliant
in
order
to
maintain
operations
over
time.
So
is
that
being
considered
in
in
in
an
adjusted
four
due
to
covet
and
and
dude.
F
Yes,
it
is
councilman
we're
just
reporting
what
the
numbers
are,
but
we
understand
and
as
we
as
I
had
mentioned
again
with
the
performance
measures,
this
is
not
a
typical
year
or
a
typical
year
and
a
half
and
that
we
need,
you
know
we're
just
reporting
to
the
to
the
council
and
to
the
public
what
the
numbers
are.
F
But
yes,
when
you
have
in
the
prisons,
for
example,
where
you
have
many
of
the
employees
who
are
sick
or
and
and
not
coming
in
and
then
and
then
to
make
sure
that
you
have
enough
staffing
to
to
fulfill
the
mission
and
the
and
the
man
and
the
federal
mandates
of
on
the
prison.
Yes,
you
need
overtime.
F
You
need
overtime
in
other
departments
such
as
the
police,
so
we
were
well
aware
of
that
and-
and
the
board
is
well
aware
of
that
they've
they've
mentioned
that
at
board
meetings
also
that,
while
we're
concerned-
and
we
were
concerned
prior
to
the
pandemic
about
rising
overtime,
cost
we're
we're
right
now
at
the
stage
where
we,
you
know
we're
just
reporting
the
numbers
and
then,
as
we
get
through
the
pandemic,
then
we'll
see
whether
those
overtime
numbers
decrease.
E
So
I
don't
this
final
question
and
I
don't
know
if
I'm
so
other
cities
are
all
different.
They
calculate
differently
as
you
as
you
mentioned,
yes,
but
but
how
many
of
them
comparable,
I'm
gonna,
say
from
new
york
to
la
the
top
ten?
E
How
much
relief
did
they
get
from
the
feds
compared
to
us
and
then
I'm
I
want
to
zero
in
on
our
state.
Relief
commonwealth
of
pennsylvania
currently
has
a
5
billion
dollar
surplus,
and
if
you
were
asking,
if
on
on
our
behalf,
how
they
could
help
us,
what
would
be
your
recommendation
for
that
kind
of
assistance?
Would
it
be
in
a
fund
balance?
Would
it
be
in
our
school
districts
needs?
Would
it
be
job
creation
tools?
What
would
you
recommend
well.
F
The
one
two
two
areas
I
would
recommend
one
is
that
if
they
could,
if
they
can
make
contributions
to
the
city's
general
fund
to
cover
the
cost
of
needed
services
that
that
the
citizens
of
philadelphia
expect
and
deserve,
then,
therefore,
if
they
can
cover
some
of
those
costs,
then
city
city
funds
could
go
into
either
a
higher
fund
balance
or
they
could
meet
the
their
the
criteria
to
for
a
contribution
to
the
budget,
stability,
stabilization
reserve
fund
and
then.
F
Since
it's
been
in
local
control,
then
maybe
either
the
seeking
still
can
contribute.
But
and
it
would
go
to
needed
services
at
the
school
district
or
they
can
withhold
some
of
that
money
and
then
put
them
into
a
fund
balance
and
or
a
rainy
day
fund
or
put
that
money
to
other
city
services
such
as
recreation,
centers,
job
training
after
school
after
school
programs,
rent
assistance.
E
So
I
don't
know,
mr
chairman,
and
I
guess
our
our
finance
department
will
probably
have
greater
information
if
those
kinds
of
discussions
negotiations
requests
are
being
made
of
the
state
in
a
way
that
that
can
be
helpful
and
actually
stabilize
our
budget
not
just
this
year,
but
for
a
couple
of
years
to
come
with
five
billion
dollars
in
surplus,
we
can
give
them
some
ideas
on
how
to
spend
it.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
B
I
do
have
another
question,
mr
rice,
for
you,
and
that
is
it
looks
to
me
like
the
wage
taxes
or
the
biggest
problem,
we're
having
in
the
lower
revenue
it's
about
118
million
short,
yes,
and
then
I
think
you
outlined
that
it
was,
I
think,
parking
and
amusement,
or
maybe
I
missed
something,
but
I
think
those
were
that
was
the
order
right.
The
party
amusement,
if
I
recall
from
memory,
was
like
25
and
18
million
short,
but
the
wage
was
118
million
right.
I
think.
F
See
that
a
little
lower,
because
I
I
think
the
refunds
are
lower
than
what
the
city
projected
the
refunds
would
be.
So
I
don't
know
what
that
number
is.
Yet
we
will
know
that
when
we
see
the
final
for
fy21,
but
also
if
you
look
at
the
revenues
through
august,
there
is
some
good
news.
You
can
see
that
the
parking
tax,
the
amusement
tax,
the
city
sales
tax-
they
are
all
increasing,
so
that
shows
that
the
city
is
slowly
getting
back
from
the
pandemic,
especially
if
you
compare
them
to
last
year.
B
B
B
It
showed
our
volatile
tax
structure
report
basically
and
it
showed
our
budget
shortfall
for
2021
and
it
showed
the
projection
that
detroit
was
the
worst
city
in
the
country
at
17,
budget
shortfall
and
philadelphia
was
the
second
worst
at
14.7,
and
what
we're
talking
about
today
is
how
to
like
band-aid
patch
and
get
through
this
next
few
years,
and
my
question
to
you
is
this:
chart
said
from
you
that
our
reliance
on
wage
tax
revenue
was
our
major
issue
here
in
the
long
run
five
ten
years
from
now.
How
do
we
fix
this
problem?
B
F
Well,
I
think
two
ways
one
is,
and
I
think
the
city
is
all
the
city
administration
is
preparing.
This
is
that
they're
going
to
look
at
the
whole
city
tax
structure
and-
and
I
think
they
need
to
do
that-
start
doing
that
now,
especially
and
then
so
they
can
get
it
underway
once
this
pandemic
ends
and
we're
we're
we're
at
some
sort
of
a
stable
with
each
tax
revenue,
and
then
I-
and
I
think
the
second
area
is
they
need
to
this.
F
To
prepare
for
such
events
such
as
this,
they
need
to
look
at
the
budget
stabilization
reserve
fund
and
why,
in
over
in
10
years,
was
there
only
one
contribution
made
of
34
little
over
34
million
dollars?
So
there
are
two
areas
I
think
the
city
is
looking
at
the
first
area
and
talking
with
budget
that
they
they
do
want
to
look
at
the
tax
revenue
structure.
F
They
might
have
to
adjust
it
because
of
the
pandemic
and
the
way
I
hate
to
say,
a
new
normalcy
will
be
for
employer
employees
and
also,
but
I
think
I
would
urge
them
to.
I
would
urge
the
city's
administration
and
council
to
look
at
the
budget
stabilization
reserve
fund
and
see
what
could
be
done
to
increase
contributions
that
over
the
future
years.
B
Okay,
is
it
possible
for
pika
to
send
to
us
a
recommendations
over
the
next
five
ten
years
of
what
they'd
like
to
see
happen
in
order
to
avoid
the
position
we're
in
now
going
forward
specific
recommendations,
sure.
B
C
And
thank
you
harvey
back
in
the
spring.
I
think
we
had
my
office
had
forwarded
off
a
letter.
We
were
having
a
conversation
about
the
fact
that,
because
of
the
pandemic
and
the
recovery,
there
was
a
cost
of
government
doing
business
and
how
that
had
changed,
and
I
asked
specifically
of
pica,
as
I
did,
for
city
control
of
rebecca
reinhart.
C
What
if
anything,
pika
could
do
to
compare
what
were
some
of
our
fixed
costs
and
how
it
related
to
other
cities,
because
I
think
one
of
our
challenges
and
the
savings
component
is,
you
know
the?
What
is
the
cost
of
doing
business
is
changed
under
kovit
and
what
does
that
all
mean?
And
how
do
we
align
with
other
cities
in
our
expenditure
and
our
ability
to
deliver
some
general
services
right?
There's
a
capital
component,
there's
an
operational
component.
C
We
see
it
on
trash
and
others
have
you
guys
looked
at
that
at
all,
and
what
would
you
suggest.
F
I
recall
you
mentioning
that
councilwoman,
but
we
never
received
a
letter
and
we
would
need
to
know
exactly.
F
You
and
then,
and
then
we'll.
We
will
review
that
letter,
any
questions
we
have
we'll
contact
you
and
your
staff,
so
we
can
get
a
a
definitive,
definitive
structure
of
what
what
you
want
us
to
look
at
and
then
we
then
we
can
do
that.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
I'm
looking
at
exactly
what
you
want
us
to
look
at.
C
Okay,
well,
do
I
think
it's
an
important
context
around
what
the
reality
of
how
we're
operating
right.
We
all
want
to
save
money.
Nobody
wants
to
save
more
money
than
rob
he'd
stash
it
all
away
if
he
could,
but
I
think
there's
some
realities
that
we
need
to
come
to
terms
with
some
which
are
short-term.
Others
require
us
to
build
in
more
efficiencies
right,
but
that's
going
to
be
the.
F
C
For
the
next
18
months-
and
we
should
be
aware
of
them,
thank
you
so
very
much
you're
welcome.
Thank
you.
Chair.
B
H
Thank
you
and
good
morning,
council,
remember
dom
and
members
of
the
council
committee
on
fiscal
stability.
I
said
I'm
rob
dubo
and
I'm
here
with
merce
waxman
the
budget
director
to
testify
on
resolution
200406.
H
H
One
thing
we
wanted
to
emphasize
and
at
the
end
we'll
give
more
more
detail
on
this
is
the
numbers
that
were
in
the
quarterly
report.
Aren't
the
final
numbers
for
fy21
those
come
out
at
the
end
of
may
well,
those
preliminary
actuals
that
come
out
the
end
of
did,
I
say,
may
the
end
of
october
in
our
annual
financial
report
and
then
those
are
audited
and
the
final
numbers
come
out
in
february.
H
So
you'll
see
different
numbers
when
those
come
out
and
we
will
talk
later
about
how
they
might
change,
then
we
also
have
to
do
an
updated
five-year
plan
because
of
our
collective
party
agreements,
and
so
you'll
you'll
see
some
numbers
in
there.
I
think
most
of
the
rest
of
the
numbers
on
this
page
on
page
two
harvey
had
it
gone
through
meant
to
give
some
context
that,
obviously
you
know,
one
of
the
reasons
that
revenues
are
down.
200
million
from
fy20
is,
is
the
pandemic
that
changed
our
revenue
structure
dramatically.
H
I
mean,
as
a
city.
You
know
with
a
high
poverty
level,
we
also
have
a
different
revenue
structure,
and
that
also
means
we
have
different
set
of
needs.
So
we
don't
think
that
that
we're
ever
going
to
get
to
the
17
percent,
but
we
do
think
getting
to
slightly
lower
number.
That
range
between
six
and
eight
percent
is
what
our
goal
should
be
with
that,
I'm
going
to
flip
it
over
to
marissa
to
walk
you
through
the
next
few
slides.
D
Again,
as
rob
mentioned,
we
will
be
updating
these
and
we'll
talk
in
the
end
about
the
60-day
approval
and
what
that
means.
But
basically
our
revenues
came
in
about
210
less
than
the
prior
year,
but
they
were
a
little
bit
more
than
the
target
budget,
so
we
had
adjusted
those
upwards
a
bit
and,
as
harvey
mentioned,
that's
really
driven
by
a
few
things.
One
that
we
started
to
draw
down.
Funds
from
the
american
rescue
plan
is
based
in
there
and
then
also
this
is
updated
based
on
actual
experience.
D
We
had
some
taxes
that
performed
a
bit
better
and
particularly
the
sales
tax
performed
a
bit
better
than
we
expected.
We
did
talk
a
bit
about
you
know.
The
wage
tax
is
still
really
weak
compared
to
where
we
once
were.
As
harvey
mentioned.
Part
of
that
may
the
picture
may
look
a
little
rosier
because,
as
we
were,
projecting
and
estimating
how
many
refunds
commuters,
who
didn't
have
to
pay
because
they
weren't
coming
in
requested
that's
a
little
lower
than
we
thought.
D
By
the
same
token,
at
this
point
we
are
still
waiting
with
baited
breath
to
see
what
it
means
that
our
universities
have
come
back
in
terms
of
faculty
and
staff,
and
so
we
sort
of
lagged
the
rest
of
the
country
because
we
are
so
concentrated
in
meds
and
eds
and
as
the
ed's
don't
come
back
until
basically
this
month,
you
know
we're
not
seeing
the
same
sort
of
growth
that
other
cities
may
have
saw
starting
in
the
summer,
but
we
did
start
to
see
recovery
based
on
some
of
the
hospitality
industry
and
so
just
to
break
this
down
our
taxes.
D
A
little
bit
better,
as
I
said,
really
driven
by
the
sales
tax,
locally
generated
non-tax
revenues
a
little
worse
than
we
had
projected
and
really
a
mixed
bag.
There.
D
Things
were
actually
looking
pretty
good
from
our
business
driven
things
permits
licenses,
but
we
fell
short,
particularly
around
our
revenues
related
to
the
philadelphia
nursing
home,
where
the
census
is
significantly
lower
than
it
has
been
historically,
as
well
as
some
delays
and
asset
sales,
some
properties,
we
thought
we
would
sell
in
fy21
those
deals
are
taking
longer
and
we
expect
them
in
fy,
22
or
later.
So
that's
more
a
delay,
as
opposed
to
a
permanent
loss
related
to
those,
not
much
variation.
D
In
terms
of
when
our
our
sort
of
early
spring
march
pres
projections
were,
and
for
at
the
end
of
the
fourth
quarter,
for
some
of
our
other
accounts
in
terms
of
the
spending
again,
this
will
adjust
a
bit
as
we
figure
out,
grant
funds
and
adjustments
there,
but
in
general
we
wound
up
spending
a
bit
less
than
we
expected
than
our
earlier
projection
in
large
part.
That's
because
part
of
the
new
normal
funds
for
city
council,
those
programs
sort
of
were
not
able
to
be
stood
up
at
the
end
of
21.
D
We
did
roll
those
forward
so
that
those
programs
can
start
in
fy
22.
So
that
was
about
11
million
dollars.
So
that's
why
the
spending's
about
10
million
dollars
less
than
we
thought.
That
said
part
way
through
the
year.
Our
initial
projections
for
spending
for
fy21
those
got
increased
and
you
guys
may
recall
the
mid-year
transfer
ordinances
doing
that.
A
couple
of
things
that
had
driven
that
one
was
the
decision
to
maintain
fire
service
at
the
current
pre-pandemic
level
that
required
an
additional
24
million
dollars.
D
The
additional
10
million
that
went
in
to
make
sure
we
could
do
the
presidential
election
as
well
as
there
was
eight
million,
because
trash
tonnage
increased,
so
the
waste
disposal
costs
went
up,
and
so
that
was
where
some
of
the
big
drivers
also
we
put
into
place
a
50
million
dollar
covid
expense
fund,
and
that
was
a
reserve
so
that,
if
federal
state,
whatever
dollars
didn't
show
up
for
covet
costs,
we
wouldn't
have
to
go
without.
D
You
know
doing
what
we
needed
to
do
in
terms
of
testing
vaccination,
but
we
had
our
own
reserve.
Some
good
news
is:
is
that
a
lot
of
fema
dollars
have
come
through,
so
we'll
be
updating
and
actually
probably
won't
need
to
spend
that
50
million
dollars
of
general
fund
dollars
that
we'd
set
aside
for
copa
and
so
and
the
last
panel.
We
talked
a
bit
about
the
interplay
between
staffing
levels
over
time
and
leave
usage,
and
so,
as
harvey
mentioned
generally
overtime
is
actually
down,
but
again
that
reflects
a
mixed
bag.
D
We
had
some
departments
that
weren't
operating
at
all
or
at
significantly
reduced
levels,
so
they
didn't
need
the
overtime
they
would
typically
use
in
a
year.
But
then,
obviously
we
have
a
number
of
probably
public
health
public
safety
departments
where
the
strain
was
even
greater
in
the
pandemic.
But
on
balance
it
led
to
a
bit
less
and
so
part
of
this
again
is
the
leave
usage,
because
you
know
when
you're
thinking
about.
If
we
want
to
provide
a
certain
service
level,
you
need
a
certain
number
of
staff
to
do
that.
D
And
if
you
don't
have
the
number
of
full-time
positions
and
if
you
don't
have
folks
who
are
there
because
they
are
out
for
health
reasons
or
other
reasons,
then
that's
when
you
lean
to
the
overtime
and
so
leave
usage
is
part
of
this
picture.
If
the
staff
you
have
on
the
books,
isn't
there
on
a
particular
day,
then
they
can't
do
that
work
and
in
certain
departments,
you
can't
wait.
D
You
can't
you
know,
do
it
the
next
day,
obviously
over
time
comes
in,
and
so
there
are
areas
where
we're
seeing
ongoing
concerns
with
the
leave
usage
streets,
sanitation,
the
sheriff
prisons,
some
of
that
driven
by
covid19,
some
of
it,
driven
by
non-coveted
factors
and
continuing
to
work
through
those
and
really
the
overtime
in
the
leave
usage
plugs
into
what
I'm
showing
here,
which
is
the
number
of
filled
positions
during
fy21.
D
We
put
a
hiring
freeze
into
place
because
we
knew
that
we
may
still
have
to
save
some
costs
and
so
for
the
most
part-
and
sometimes
I
talk
about
it
as
a
hiring
cold
snap,
because
what
we
did
was
we
evaluated
requests
for
filling
positions,
back
filling
positions,
typically
approving
those
related
to
public
health
and
public
safety,
but
ones
where
we
could
wait.
D
We
could
wait
and
where
that
leaves
us
is
in
the
general
fund
or
actually
across
all
funds
about
3
400
positions
less
than
we
had
budgeted
for
are
filled,
and
so
you
know
that's
about
10.
That's
where
you
know
we've
got
90
of
the
people,
resources
that
we
would
need
to
do
the
jobs
we
had
planned
to
do
so
all
this
obviously
is
also
impacting
performance
measures.
D
How
many
folks
we
have
available
to
do
the
work
and
then
everything
related
to
covid
so
about
you
know,
60
of
our
performance
measures
were
still
on
track
about
forty
percent
were
not
and
again
different.
Things
were
able
to
happen.
Clip
managed
to
clean
do
more
citywide
cleanup
projects
than
normal
than
they
had
projected.
The
free
library
had
more
digital
visits
than
they
had
initially
projected,
but
in
some
areas
things
were
falling
short.
The
free
libraries,
you
know
not
surprisingly,
had
far
less
in-person
visits
than
they
initially
thought.
D
They
would
have,
as
covid
caused
us
to
reduce
the
number
of
hours
that
the
libraries
were
open.
Other
variations,
not
so
much
coveted
related,
but
licenses
and
inspections.
They
have
a
set
budget
for
doing
demolitions,
and
then
they
have
a
target
for
the
number
of
demolitions
they'll
complete
in
the
past
year,
though
they
had
several
large
commercial
demolitions.
Those
are
much
more
expensive.
D
So
if
you
have
a
couple
of
really
expensive
ones,
it
means
the
total
volume
you
can
do
is
reduced,
and
so
that's
pretty
much
how
things
were
turning
out
in
fy
21..
I
wanted
to
turn
a
little
bit
about
how
things
have
been
going
in
terms
of
spending
through
the
first
two
months
of
fy22.
D
Two
months
is
16.7
percent
of
the
year,
and
if
we
had
no
seasonal
variation,
you'd
say
well,
we
should
have
spent
16.7
percent
of
our
money
so
far,
but
as
harvey
mentioned,
there's
a
lot
of
departments
that
either
spend
stuff
early
in
the
year
or
encumber
it,
which
we
consider
spen,
for
example,
city,
council,
encumbers,
all
of
the
funds
for
12
months
worth
of
court
reporters
in
july,
so
it
looks
like
you've
spent
all
that
money,
but
you've
just
encumbered
it
and,
as
harvey
mentioned,
there's
some
other
big
ones.
D
The
commerce
department
pays
its
the
convention
center
subsidy,
which
is
15
million.
A
lot
of
our
debt
service
is
paid
early
in
the
air.
So
it's
not
surprising
that
we're
a
little
ahead
of
that
16.7
percent.
But
what
is
really
important
to
see
is
we're
not
ahead
in
class
100
that
one
display
you
know
other
than
some
seasonal
variations
is
where
we'd
get
concerned.
D
If
we
were
well
ahead,
that
there'd
be
a
hard
time,
toggling
back
without
layoffs
or
something
dramatic,
and
so
what
you
can
see
here
is
this
is
the
spending
across
all
categories,
and,
as
I
mentioned,
you
see
commerce,
spiked,
high
they've,
already
paid
the
convention
center
subsidy
dbh
ids.
They
encumber
a
significant
amount
of
the
dollars
that
go
to
their
providers
early
in
the
year.
Similar
conversation
as
I
mentioned,
sinking
fund.
D
That's
where
the
debt
service
is
so
this
up
and
above
where
I
would
be
worried,
is
if,
on
this
slide,
which
just
looks
at
payroll
costs,
if
this
were
running
ahead
of
where
we
should
be
two
months
in
and
so
by
looking
at
class
100
our
salaries
in
isolation.
This
lets
us
know:
okay,
we're
we
are
still
within
budget.
We
are
on
track.
D
Obviously
things
can
throw
us
off,
particularly
in
those
public
safety,
public
health
areas
where,
if
something
happens
over
time
might
be
needed,
but
generally
this
shows
that
we're
doing
pretty
well
so
far.
So
this
is
where
we
are
two
months
into
the
fiscal
year,
but,
as
we
mentioned
and
rob
started
by
saying,
we're
still
finalizing
the
books
for
21
and
that's
going
to,
let
us
know
exactly
how
much
cushion
in
room
we
have
for
the
rest
of
this
year.
D
There's
going
to
be
a
number
of
different
drivers
that
change
the
numbers
we
presented
today,
the
preliminary
ones
before
the
next
time
we
present
numbers
in
late
october
in
that
annual
financial
report.
First
of
all,
the
revenues
are
going
to
reflect
the
collections
from
60
day
accruals,
basically
anything
that
we
get
during
july
and
august
that
should
have
been
paid
in
june.
We
get
to
count
towards
last
year,
so
we
do
we'll
also
get
updated
information
about
tax
credits
and
how
those
are
being
utilized
in
with
the
burt
tax.
D
Those
can
swing
millions
and
millions
of
dollars,
we'll
also
be
finishing
up
figuring
out
how
we
are
transferring
funds
between
our
departments.
You
know
how
much
did
we
does?
The
general
fund
have
to
pay
the
water
department
for
its
water
bills
this
year,
it's
actually
likely
going
to
be
less
because,
with
fewer
pools
open,
we
build
less
pools
that
actually
has
a
material
impact
on
our
water
bill.
We'll
also
be
looking
to
see
how
much
grant
dollars
we
can
use
to
cover
expenses.
D
I
mentioned
that
we
had
set
aside
and
been
charging
against
a
50
million
dollar
coveted
reserve
that
was
housed
in
the
mdo
budget,
but
we
are
really
chugging
to
get
other
folks
to
pay
for
that,
and
so
we
continue
to
try
and
make
sure
that
we
get
grant
dollars
to
cover
as
much
as
possible
and
then
we'll
also
be
looking
at
what
just
wound
up
being
underspent,
and
I
already
mentioned
the
new
normal
there's
other
things
where
projects
just
sometimes
towards
the
end
of
the
year,
don't
get
off
the
ground
or
there's
other
delays,
and
so
we'll
be
seeing
where
those
are.
D
B
Thank
you
listen.
Thank
you
rob.
I
have
a
few
questions
for
you.
Let
me
start
by
just
asking
the
question.
It
seems
like
you're
off
about
3
400
employees
in
the
city
overall,
and
I
know
this
over
time
to
make
up
for
their
lost
shifts,
but
you
have
any
kind
of
idea
what
you
think
that
savings
might
be
in
the
budget.
D
So
that's
something
that
we
are
working
on
now
and
we'll
get
netted
out
so
there'll
be
some
increased
overtime
costs
in
some
areas,
but
also
some
you
know
under
spends
in
terms
of
flat
salaries,
but
a
lot
of
the
larger
departments
where
it's
fairly
normal
to
have
vacancies,
that's
actually
already
built
in
to
their
budget.
So
we
have
something
that
we
always
build
in
call
or
typically
build
in
particularly
larger
budgets
called
a
vacancy
allowance.
D
So
it's
already
often
built
into
our
assumptions
that
not
a
hundred
percent
of
positions
are
filled
100
of
the
year,
but
in
the
next
month
we'll
tighten
up
where
the
pluses
and
minuses
are
overall.
B
And
just
in
general,
if
we
pay
a
dollar
in
labor,
I
know
they've
asked
this
question
over
the
years.
I
know
it's
different
for
different
departments,
but
what
is
the
actual
total
cost
for
every
dollar
of
labor?
We
pay
for
an
employee.
H
D
I
would
say
typically,
but
there
are
some
variables
depending
upon
you
know,
is
it
overtime
on
a
sunday,
that's
also
a
holiday,
it
can
get
more
or
so
there
are
variations,
but
generally
yes,
it's
time
and
a
half.
B
Question
I
know
that
recently
there
are
some
contract
negotiations
or
contract
agreements
that
were
signed
for
class
under
budget
for
fiscal
year
22..
How
does
that
impact
to
the
labor
reserve
we
budgeted
and
how
will
it
impact
our
department
budgets
if,
at
all,.
H
So
what
you'll
see
some
point
in
the
next
month
is
a
new
five-year
plan
that
will
build
in
all
the
changes
that
we
have
to
make
as
a
result
of
of
those
contracts,
so
we're
going
through
that
process
now
it
will
definitely
have
an
impact
really
throughout
the
throughout
the
budget
and
throughout
the
five-year
plan.
You
know
we're
in
the
process
of
developing
that.
H
H
So
the
cost
is
higher
than
what
was
in
the
in
the
labor
reserve,
so
we'll
have
to
figure
out
kind
of
how
how
to
make
up
that
difference.
I
think
the
the
total
cost
over
the
three
years
of
the
three
contracts
is
in
the
330
million
dollar
range
and,
as
you
know,
we
had
200
million
over
five
years.
So
there's
a
there's,
a
gap
there.
H
B
Next
question:
I
don't
know
if
it's
possible,
but
you
know
I
look
at
fiscal
stability
and
I
know
we're
talking
about
the
reserve
funds
and
our
budgets,
but
we
also
have
assets.
Is
there
I
haven't
seen
it,
but
maybe
you
have
it.
Is
there
some
sort
of
like
financial
statement
balance
sheet
for
the
city
of
philadelphia
that
we
can
look
at
as
a
council
that
shows,
for
example,
this
is
what
our
you
know.
Pension
should
be
funded
at
this
level.
This
is
what
we
have
in
there.
Our
liquid
assets
are
this.
B
B
H
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
by
way
of
a
recovery,
my
my
concern
is
use
and
occupancy
and
as
companies
that
have
large
labor
pools
have
discovered
that
they
can
survive
and
work
from
home.
E
How
is
that
dealing
with
our
occupancy
of
commercial
assets,
office,
buildings
and,
to
a
degree,
restaurants,
that
can't
find
staffers
and
therefore
aren't
at
full
occupancy?
How
is
that
being
factored.
H
So
that
for
where
that
city
that
would
affect
our
property
tax,
you
know
for
the
school
district,
they
would
hit
the
houston
occupancy
tax.
So
you
know
it's
part
of
when
you
put
together
our
projections.
It's
one
of
the
things
that
we
talked
about
with
outside
economists,
where
they
thought
markets
would
go,
and-
and
so
we
built
it
in
that
way,
mercy
may
have
some
work
details
on
him,
specifically
how
it
was
built.
That's
it.
D
Yeah
we
work
with
ihs
our
outside
economists
to
understand
each
of
our
tax
types
and
what
the
various
drivers
are,
and
so
we've
toggled
those
into
our
growth
rates.
Some
of
them
are
driven
by
sort
of
regional
economic
activity,
because
if
the
region's
doing
well
and
suburbanites
want
to
come
in
and
have
dinner,
that's
one
thing:
there's
other
things
that
really
are
just
you
know,
city,
county
borders
and
that's
what's
going
to
influence.
D
D
There
are
some
sort
of
natural
experiments
from
the
states
that
didn't
accept
those
extended
benefits
and
trying
to
understand
what
that's
gonna
do
to
labor
availability
and
whether
or
not
that's
gonna
have
an
impact.
A
lot
of
what
you're
saying
you
know
the
the
restaurants,
not
finding
staff.
D
So
can
we
expect
a
shift
there,
but
obviously
do
we
also
need
to
update
based
on
the
delta
variant,
and
I
also
mentioned
that
some
of
our
lag
compared
to
other
jurisdictions
is
that
our
economic
reopening,
while
we
sort
of
lifted
the
last
of
our
restrictions
in
june,
so
much
is
driven
by
activity
on
our
university
campuses
that
we're
not
gonna
necessarily
see
what
that
bounce
back
looks
like
until
we
get
into
right
where
we
are
now.
D
So
you
know
we're
an
interesting
time
to
incorporate
all
of
that
into
what
we
think
it
means
in
terms
of
the
occupancy
and
commercial
real
estate
and
what
folks
are
doing
some
of
that's
an
even
longer
time
horizon
as
leases
are
coming
up
to
be
renewed.
You
know,
you
know,
there's
folks,
who
are
locked
into
a
lease
for
another
two
years.
That's
when
they're
gonna
make
the
decision
about
you
know.
Do
we
need
the
same
square
footage?
Do
we
need
a
different
type
of
space?
D
So
unfortunately,
there's
no
point
at
which
we're
gonna
have
all
of
the
answers.
We
have
to
sort
of
be
comfortable
living
in
the
questions
for
a
bit,
and
so
those
are
that's
a
lot
of
what
we're
looking
at
and
constantly
updating.
So.
E
Are
you
working
with
commercial,
realtors
and
chamber
of
commerce
types
that
say
you
know
hypothetically
blue
cross
here
they
used
to
have
ten
thousand
square
feet
on
this
in
this
building
and
now
looking
at
operating
a
half
that
and
when
that
lease
comes
up
they're
not
going
to
renew
it
for
that
amount
and
might
only
instead
of
cubicles,
let's
go
with
meeting
space
when
needed,
where
necessary,
shared.
So
are
we
kind
of
looking
to
that?
To
then
say,
can
this
building
be
converted
into
residential,
I
mean?
Are
we?
D
So
I
think
you
know
definitely
on
the
economic
projection
side
we're
definitely
trying
to
keep
our
ear
to
the
ground
on
what's
happening
in
commercial
real
estate,
what's
happening
in
transactions
because
that
drives
our
realty
transfer
tax
and
I
think
that
that's
going
to
be
what
you're
suggesting
is
the
really
interesting
question?
That'll
be
sort
of
budget,
but
moving
into
planning
and
development.
Thinking
about
zoning-
and
you
know
commerce,
thinking
about
you
know
what
do
we
want
to
do?
D
I
think
that's
going
to
raise
some
really
interesting
questions,
not
just
for
us,
but
you
know
how
do
folks
use
space.
I
was
talking
to
a
consultant
that
specializes
in
tech
industry,
in
big
cities
and
and
also
high
commercial
office
buildings,
and
just
how
there
may
be
a
segregation
between
where
you
know
outside
folks
are
allowed
in
versus.
You
know
areas
of
spaces
that
only
you
know
the
badge
staff
can
get
into
and
that
being
a
lot
more
segregated,
and
so
it
may
be
the
same
amount
of
space,
but
really
different
configurations.
D
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
good
questions
there,
but
I
can
say
even
my
stamp:
we
haven't.
People
have
not
yet
decided,
are
they
coming
back
to
the
municipal
service
building
or
not?
And
I
and
and
that's
the
decisions
that
are
you
know,
just
thousands
and
thousands
of
individual
decisions
are
going
to
then
lead
to
what
does
the
shift
in
the
real
estate
market
look
like
and
then,
as
a
result?
What
do
we
want
to
shift
with
in
terms
of
our
planning
and
zoning
and
things
like
that?
E
Be
looking
at
and
it
has
a
rippling
effect,
because
if
I
run
the
luncheonette
or
the
shoe
repair
shop,
that's
adjacent
to
the
big
office
building,
and
maybe
I
don't
need
to
be
there
anymore
and
we
need
to
kind
of
look
at
where
that's
going.
But
how
do
we
adjust
and
if
nothing
more
than
our
finances?
E
But
we
really
need
to
take
a
look
at
where
things
are
going.
If
I'm
a
company-
and
I
work
25
more
efficient
with
50
less
cost,
because
I
don't
have
a
physical
office,
how
do
I
entice
that
company
to
revisit
the
real
estate
usage?
B
Thank
you,
councilmember
jones,
you
raised
a
very,
very
important
issue
and
I'll
just
share
with
you
what
I've
been
seeing
and
I
have
a
few
more
questions,
but
I'm
seeing
people
in
the
commercial
market
not
really
knowing
what's
going
to
happen
and
most
of
them
when
their
leases
are
coming
up
or
taking
one-year
extensions
and
waiting
to
see
what
happens
when
will
the
city
reopen?
When
will
these
offices
open
up?
Is
it
going
to
be
november?
1St?
Is
it
january
1st
and
we
have
that
temporary
setback
with
this
area?
B
So
I
think
they
all
they
don't
really
know,
but
I
do
think
we
need
to
be
prepared
on
all
fronts
and
you
bring
up
some
excellent
points
and
I
think
that
we
need
to
focus
in
two
areas:
big
time,
life
sciences
and
tech.
Those
are
the
growth
industries
for
philadelphia,
life
sciences
and
tech.
When
I
say
life
sciences,
I'm
talking
about
cell
therapy
and
what
goes
on
at
the
university
of
penn.
Seeing
that
lease
gets
signed
out
in
king
of
prussia
was
like
putting
a
knife
in
our
heart.
B
E
To
your
point,
mr
chairman:
bud:
biotech
up
at
the
old
budge
plan,
they're
reinvesting
in
that
and
repurposing
those
buildings
to
focus
on
biotech
firms
that
want
and
seek
this
region
because
of
the
eds
and
meds
because
of
the
the
lifestyle
that
they
can
have
in
philadelphia.
E
B
We've
talked
about
this
councilman
jones
is
going
to
be.
How
do
we
get
our
philadelphia
residents,
those
jobs
and
train
in
those
fields,
so
they
can
get
those
good
paying
jobs.
We
need
those
good
paying
jobs.
A
lot
of
it
is
our
tax
structure.
That's
prevented
us
from
doing
that,
and
I
know
we're
working
on
that
now.
I
have
another
question:
maybe
it's
for
rob.
B
You
know
when,
when
we're
searching
for
money
in
government
or
in
business,
you
look
at
every
corner
every
crevice,
so
I
want
to
talk
about
delinquencies
for
a
minute
right
now.
I
think-
and
I
and
I
will
say
this-
I
believe
the
revenue
department
under
current
chairperson,
frank
bresen,
is
doing
a
great
job
commissioner's
doing
a
great
job
and
we
have
about
309
million
dollars
in
principle
of
delinquent
taxes
across
the
board.
B
Half
of
it
roughly
is
in
real
estate
taxes
and
the
other
two
big
pieces
are
it's
146
million
in
real
estate,
42
million
in
wage
and
66
million
in
birth
taxes.
There's
three
taxes
that
maybe
we
could
take
a
little
extra
focus
on
to
figure
out.
Is
there
more
money
there
that
we
could
collect
to
help
close
some
of
these
gaps
that
we're
experiencing?
H
Yeah,
I
think
revenue
is
sharply
focused
on
all
three
of
those.
You
know
the
last
year
and
a
half
has
obviously
been
hard.
We
scaled
back
on
enforcement
for,
for
obvious
reasons,
we're
gradually
starting
kind
of
to
go
back
to
enforcement,
but
you
know
we
have
to
be
mindful
of
how
we
do
that,
and
you
know
that
the
kind
of
the
situation
people
are
in
that
said,
the
the
property
tax
collection
percent
has
remained
really
high.
H
B
The
revenue
commissioner
and
a
new
robin
marissa
and
whole
finance
department.
You
know
a
debt
of
gratitude
because
I
remember
six
years
ago
it
was
like
at
90
so
to
go
from
that
level
to
96
and
maintain
it
at
96.
In
today's
environment
is
great,
of
course,
I'd
like
to
see
if
you
get
98,
but
96
is
really
good,
so
yeah.
B
Yeah
excellent
I'd
like
to
recognize
my
colleague,
councilmember
kathy
gilmore
richardson.
G
Thank
you
and
thank
you
so
much
mr
chair,
and
to
to
all
of
you
for
all
of
your
work
and
for
the
information
that
has
been
provided.
Thus
far,
I've
been
listening
and
I
apologize.
I've
had
tech
delays
with
the
chat
feature
this
morning,
but
I
wanted
to
ask
a
quick
question
and
I
apologize
if
I
missed
this,
but
how
many
requests
have
you
all
received
thus
far
from
individuals
who
work
in
the
city
may
not
reside
in
the
city
of
seeking
wage
tax
refunds
and
how
much.
D
So
I
can
tell
you
the
number
I
know
off
the
top.
My
head
in
terms
of
dollars
is
in
the
mid.
90
million
dollar
range,
that's
from
sort
of
the
start
of
that
opening
up
to
earlier
this
month,
and
so
some
of
that
will
be
attributable
to
fy21.
D
Some
will
be
attributable
to
fy22,
but
one
that's
only
part
of
the
story.
There's
the
people
who
had
that
wage
tax
withheld
and
then
need
to
come
to
us
now
for
a
refund,
and
that's
that
90
million
what's
harder
to
disaggregate
and
I'll
be
honest,
I
don't
know
if
we
will
ever
be
able
to
it's
going
to
be
fodder
for
phd
students
for
decades
is
where
some
of
our
larger
employers
very
early
in
the
pandemic
stopped
withholding.
D
So
there's
no
need
to
ask
us
for
a
refund,
so
those
are
the
two
pieces
about
how
the
change
for
commuters,
who
are
working
from
home
and
keeping
in
mind
that
that's
only
allowed
when
it
is
directed
by
the
employer.
Not
so
if
the
office
is
closed,
they
can't
come
in
great.
Nobody
do
to
us.
It's
gonna
be
interesting
as
we
move
forward.
D
G
D
What
we
are
doing
within
the
next
month,
as
we
tighten
up
the
fy21,
we're
going
to
update
the
we
had
initially
thought:
we'd
have
about
120
million
dollars
worth
of
those
refund
requests.
In
the
late
spring,
we
had
dialed
that
back
to
105..
It
looks
like
now
we'll
probably
dial
that
back
to
about
90..
The
trick
here
is
that
folks
do
have
three
years
to
request
those
refunds
and.
F
D
There's
still
some
risk,
it's
not
like,
we
can
say
boom
boom
boom,
95
million
dollars,
and
we're
done
there's
still
some
exposure
that
maybe
the
rest
of
those
requests
just
come.
In
later.
We
had
built
into
our
five-year
plan
a
reduced
level
for
fy22,
so
about
70
million
worth
of
refunds
and
then.
D
Basically,
what
we
had
done
working
with
the
city's
economist,
was
an
assumption
that
about
15
of
those
commuter
wage
tax
dollars
never
come
back
and
obviously
that's
a
mix
of
folks.
You
know
some
folks,
never
setting
foot
in
the
city
to
work
at
all
again,
as
well
as
folks
working
a
couple
of
days
a
week,
but
overall
15
of
those
commuter
wage
tax
dollars,
we
think,
are
permanently
gone.
G
Okay,
but
to
that
point,
and
to
the
point
of
council
member
jones
talking
about
all
of
our
commercial
real
estate
and
office
space-
and
you
know
the
conversations
you
say
that
you've
been
having
with
individuals
in
that
sector.
G
D
So
that
was
the
projection
that
we
made
with
our
economist
when
we
made
it
in
may
we'll
continue
updating,
but
obviously
you
know,
as
we've
been
talking
about
people,
people
have
not
yet
settled
on
what
they're
going
to
be
doing
three
years
from
now.
So
we
continue
to
regularly
refine
we,
you
know,
get
monthly
reports
from
our
economists.
We
update
our
revenue
projections
usually
about
twice
a
year,
and
so
it's
something
that
we
will
are
because
it
has
such
a
material
impact
on
the
budget.
D
We're
obviously
going
to
continue
to
update
and
we
use
a
lot
of
really
interesting
data
sources,
one
of
the
ones
that
I
find
most
interesting
that
that
our
economists
look
at
is
the
number
of
building
security
card
swipes
in
like
downtown
commercial
office,
buildings.
G
D
You
know
how
many
of
those
we
have
compared
to
pre-pandemic
and
and
that
doesn't
give
you
the
exact
split
of
residence
versus
non-residents,
but
it
it
lets
you
sort
of
see
how
things
are
going.
We
were
inching
back
up,
you
know,
and
we
still
are.
D
You
know:
we've
got
more
folks
coming
in
than
san
francisco
or
new
york,
but
we're
well
below
dallas
and,
I
think
chicago,
so
you
know
there's
different
trends
in
different
cities
and
that's
a
lot
of
what
we're
looking
at
and
again
for
us
since
we're
so
heavily
concentrated,
though
in
meds
and
ed's.
A
good
chunk
of
this
is
gonna.
D
We're
gonna
know
a
lot
more
once
we
see
how
the
universities,
the
staff,
the
faculty,
how
that
plays
out-
and
that's
probably
gonna-
really
influence
what
we
see
going
forward
and
obviously,
as
we
move
through
this
year
in
delta
variant,
you
know,
does
everything
stay
open
or
do
we?
Do
you
see
shutdowns
again.
G
Sure,
and
so
again
to
your
point,
though,
I'm
just
curious
on
how
you
all
are
looking
at
or
analyzing
any
secondary
text
collection,
information
for
businesses
that
are
sort
of
around
the
eds
and
meds
or
around
the
center
city,
downtown
area
as
an
indication
of
of
that
percentage.
The
15
of
folks
not
coming
back
so
there's.
D
Going
to
be
a
lot
of
different
things
that
we
look
at
and
particularly
geographically,
is
what's
interesting,
so
some
of
those
texts
are
parking
tax.
You
know,
we
see,
we
see
that
and
there's
a
lot
of
different
things.
Our
parking
tax
comes
in
sort
of
three
big
areas:
university
city,
which
definitely
real
heavy
meds
and
ads
and
we'll
see
that's
what
we
think
will
change.
D
Huge
amount
comes
from
the
airport,
and
so
you
know
that's
you
know.
On
the
one
hand
you
know
it
looks
like
there's
changes
in
what's
allowable
for
international
travel,
but
really
how
long
until
business
travel
you
know,
does
it
come
back?
Does
it
ever
come
back
and
then
layer
that,
on
top
of
you
know,
trends
around
car
sharing
services
and
you
know
how
folks
use
those
to
get
to
the
airport,
so
we
do
look
at
also
say
our
use
and
occupancy
tax.
D
We
break
down
by
neighborhood
our
realty
transfer
tax,
so
we
do
get
to
see
different
windows
into
what
that
means.
Like
one
of
the
questions
that
we're
things
we've
been
talking
about,
is
yes,
you
know,
maybe,
if
there's
reduced
demand
for
the
lunch
counter
in
center
city,
are
things
changing
commercial
corridors?
When
folks
are
you
know
up
in
the
northwest
and
working
from
home-
and
you
know,
are
they
running
errands
that
they
used
to?
Do
you
know
downtown
at
the
macy's?
D
B
B
I
also
think
that
the
office
worker
market
right
now
is
between
30
and
40
occupied.
So
we
need
to
figure
out
a
way
to
have
office
employers,
the
top
25
or
50
employers.
We
should
like
speak
to
them.
Tell
them
get
their
vaccinations
done
and
bring
their
people
back
to
work.
I
am
hearing
more
and
more
people
do
want
to
come
back
to
work,
and
it's
probably
also
good
for
people's
marriages
for
them
to
go
back
to
work.
B
Just
mention
that
not
that
I'm
married
I'm
just
saying
that's
what
I
hear
so
last
question
for
you
rob
and
marissa.
B
I
know
we're
talking.
We
have
spent
or
reinvested,
I
should
say
155
million
dollars
this
year
on
the
violence
prevention
budget
and
we're
very
committed
to
that.
That's
our
number
one
issue
I
believe,
and
we're
trying
to
figure
out
the
roadmap
regarding
a
plan
for
this
set
of
goals
and
how
we're
going
to
evaluate
and
monitor
the
investments
we're
making.
So
we
know
what's
making
a
difference,
what's
working,
what
isn't
so
we
can
shift
quickly
and
put
the
money
into
those
programs
that
are
working,
I
think
in
the
budget
it
was
about.
B
I
think
1.7
million
was
set
aside
for
evaluation.
So
how
are
we
go?
How
are
we
going
to
go
about
evaluating
it
and
using
that
money.
D
So
I
I'll
be
honest,
I
don't
have
all
the
details
at
the
tip
of
my
tongue,
but
managing
director's
office
was
standing
up
mechanism.
Some
of
that
is
bringing
consultants
and
evaluators
some.
We
have
resources
within
city
government.
The
govlab
phl,
which
sits
within
the
mayor's
office,
often
sets
up
sort
of
programmatic
approaches
to
evaluation,
and
so
both
of
those
will,
I
believe,
be
built
in
some
of
our
internal
reviews,
which
we
always
do,
but
also
dedic.
B
Okay,
yeah,
that's,
I
think
it's
very
important
that
we
monitor
that
very
closely.
You
know
we
have
a
committee
from
council
looking
at
it.
I
hope
they
get
all
the
information
they
need
in
order
to
do
that,
but
that's
a
big
investment
that
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
being
productive
with
that
investment
and
making
a
difference.
So
thank
you
all
right.
I
think
I
want
to
thank
all
the
witnesses
from
this
first
panel.
Thank
you
for
being
here
today.
B
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
and
really
appreciate
all
your
efforts
and
very
informative.
So
I
guess
the
clerk
to
call
the
next
panel.
C
B
I
The
quarterly
managers
report
for
the
fourth
quarter,
which
has
ended
6
30
21,
shows
that
the
projected
ppd
spending
is
200,
727
million,
which
is
the
same
amount
that
was
budgeted
and
is
unchanged
from
the
projection
last
quarter.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
be
here
today
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
at
this
time.
B
I
The
department
is
very
much
part
of
the
road
map
and
working
with
the
city
in
the
areas
that
the
police
are
responsible
for
changing,
so
whether
it's
adding
pinpoint
locations
or
working
on
different
community
events
and
working
with
our
community
partners.
I
believe
that
we're
lockstep
with
the
plans,
as
we
move
forward,
commissioner,
outlaw
along
with
vanessa
chair
that
panel
and
everything
that
is
discussed
and
we
bring
forward,
comes
back
to
both
and
all
of
our
external
partners
as
well.
B
I
The
best
guess
I
could
give
you,
because
we
don't
have
a
mandate
to
report.
Obviously,
in
individual
units
we
have
people
operating
under
the
city
guidelines,
which
means
they
must
be
double
masked
if
they're
not
vaccinated
when
in
public
space,
but
I
believe
we're
about
80
percent
based
on
what
was
done
through
lehb,
as
well
as
those
that
we
knew
were
done
by
the
black
doctors
consortium
and
some
of
the
other
counties
surrounding
philadelphia
when
we
did
not
have
it
available
yet
some
folks
that
were
eligible
in
other
counties
received
it
there.
I
So
it's
encouraging
that
talking
with
our
partners
at
lehb
every
day,
a
few
more
employees
call
there
and
say:
hey,
I'm
ready.
You
know
that
obviously
they're
not
dispatched,
but
they
can
tell
them
exactly
where
to
go
same
day
before
you
know
anybody
changes
their
mind.
So
I
think
our
numbers
are
going
to
continue
to
rise
and
as
we
move
forward
in
accordance
with
the
city
policy,
all
of
our
new
hires
will
be
vaccinated,
so
that
will
only
bring
our
percentage
up.
B
B
I
B
E
C
Had
overtime
costs
that
increased,
but
the
amount
of
our
staffing
was
decreased
because
we
didn't
have
no
highers
in
21.,
so
that
kind
of
balanced
out
and
as
far
as
needs
in
the
other
classes.
We
did
transfer
money
from
three
and
four
hundred
class
to
200
class
to
take
care
of
some
needs
there.
So
we
were
able
to
just
balance
out
what
was
needed
in
the
budget.
I
C
No
for,
like
the
actual
numbers
compared.
E
C
Just
what
came
in,
I
think
our
abatements
were
a
little
lower
than
we
anticipated
okay.
B
Thank
you
and,
commissioner
colbert.
I
guess
this
last
question
is
for
you,
I
guess
it's
a
department
question:
will
the
department
consider
setting
new
performance
goals,
for
instance,
rather
than
say
we
have
a
goal
of
less
than
400
homicides
this
year,
so
we
think
maybe
reducing
the
levels
by.
We
want
five
percent
10
25
less
and
over
what
time
period
and
then
what
would
our
aspirational
goal
be
here
and
then?
I
It's
certainly
worth
considering,
because
I
do
understand
that
it's
very
easy,
especially
in
a
tumultuous
year
to
wind
up
already,
not
at
your
goal,
when
you
set
a
goal
that
you've
already
not
reached,
and
it's
october,
it's
impossible
to
roll
any
of
that
back.
So
in
many
of
our
performance
areas,
we
do
utilize.
I
I
That
by
other
cities
are
up
40
and
we're
up
18
because
in
the
end,
there's
still
people
who
are
murdered
and
there's
still
families
that
lost
that
person.
So
to
find,
I
guess
the
way
to
not
be
disingenuous,
because
if
you
come,
if
you
come
to
395,
it's
still
not
a
success.
You
know,
even
though
we
met
our
goal.
I
There's
still,
you
know
terrible
violence,
that's
been
perpetrated
against
people,
but
you
know
I'll
certainly
bring
it
back
to
commissioner
outlaw
and
we
will
sit
down
and
talk
about
maybe
a
better
way
of
making
some
goal
that's
easily
to
digest
by
the
public
and
still
something
that
we
can
keep
working
towards.
B
And
I
think
you
just
do
set
that
kind
of
goal,
and
you
know
one
homicide
is
too
many,
but
if
you
set
that
kind
of
goal,
at
least,
if
we
have
the
ability
to
manage
and
track
it
and
monitor
it,
look
at
it
constantly
you'll
be
more
likely
to
achieve
it
than
if
we
do
not
do
that.
There
was.
There
was
a
harvard
study
done
many
many
years
ago.
B
That
said,
when
you
set
a
goal
and
you
write
it
down,
you
must
chance
higher
chance
of
achieving
it
like
50
versus,
if
you
don't,
and
if
you
look
at
it
monthly,
it
increases
another
50
and
if
you
look
at
it
weekly
another
50
and
if
you
carry
it
around
in
your
pocket
written
and
you
look
at
it
daily
you're
likely
to
achieve
it.
I
Councilman,
I
agree
and
there's
something
I
can
assure
you
when
it
comes
to
murders
and
shooting
violence,
we
look
at
it
daily.
We
don't
wait
for
a
week
or
month,
but
years
back.
We
did
crime
plans
in
the
department,
and
I
gave
every
officer
of
my
command
in
west
philly
a
copy
of
that
plan
and
they
were
required
to
have
it
in
their
pocket.
So
nobody
could
say
I
wasn't
sure,
that's
what
we
were
trying
to
do.
I
So
I
agree
that
if
it's
something
you
you
have
to
change
your
shirt
every
day
you
change
it.
You
look
at
it
and
I
believe
that
that
study
is
probably
accurate,
but
honestly,
there's
not
a
morning
that
we
don't
talk
about
gun
violence,
deployment
strategies
because
it's
obviously
very
important
to
us,
but
even
more
important
to
those
who
are
impacted
by
a
daily.
B
None.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
testimony
today.
I'd
like
to
ask
our
fire
commissioner,
adam
thiel
good
morning,
mr
thiel.
J
Good
morning,
councilman
we're
done
with
members
of
city
council.
My
name
is
adam
tito
and
I
am
the
commissioner
for
the
philadelphia
fire
department
and
the
officer
emergency
management
director.
I
am
here
today
to
testify
on
resolution
number
two:
zero:
zero,
four
zero
six,
which
calls
for
hearings
to
discuss
the
fiscal
position
and
overarching
social
impact
goals
of
the
city,
including
and
as
related
to
the
five
year
plan
and
the
reporting
requirements
set
forth
in
the
quarterly
city
managers
report
and
as
submitted
to
the
pennsylvania
intergovernmental
cooperation
authority.
J
B
J
J
B
And
I
know
that
right
now,
you're
not
at
the
desired
number
of
full-time
employees.
How
short
are
we
at
in
the
fire
department
right
now.
J
Councilmember
we're
doing
a
lot
of
work
on
recruitment
and
I
do
want
to
I'm
glad.
You
said
that
actually,
the
the
deadline
for
firefighter
emts
is
on
october
1st.
So,
if
you're
watching
this
out
there,
you
know
and
you're
interested,
please
go
to
philadelphia
fire.
J
You
can
find
all
the
information,
the
the
challenge
really
for
us,
as
we've
talked
about
before,
is
it's
a
it's
a
nine-month
academy
process
and
it
takes
us
about
two
academies
a
year
to
cover
attrition
and
then
start
to
get
into
that
approximately
600
person
gap
that
we
have
between
our
our
full
position
count
our
full
authorization
and
where
we
are
today.
So
it's
it's
really
a
matter
of
timing
and
throughput
versus
anything
else.
B
J
No
sir,
they
still
go
through
the
the
civil
service
process
in
accordance
with
all
the
the
city
regulations
for
that,
although
they
do
get
some
some
points
for
participating
in
that
program,
and
there
are
some
other
ways
to
get
points
we're
also,
as
we've
talked
about
before,
we
have
our
facility
now
at
7,
800
ogons
fully
operational.
So
we
have
about
double
the
amount
of
explorers
that
we've
had
in
the
past.
We
were
able
to
accommodate
them
in
that
facility,
so
we
hope
that's
going
to
really
help
us
for
the
future.
B
And
commissioner,
just
this
since
we're
doing
some
marketing
today
for
to
get
you
more
people
in
the
fire
department,
what's
the
average
starting
salary
for
someone
who
might
be
interested.
J
Councilmember,
I
actually
don't
know
the
answer
to
that
and,
of
course,
it'll
be
subject
to
the
the
current
negotiations
and
in
the
contract,
but
all
that
information,
when
that's
done
we'll
be
on
that
website
at
phillip.gov,
slash
fire.
I
can
say
it's
certainly
a
a
very
reasonable
wage
and,
of
course,
more
importantly,
it's
the
toughest
job
you'll
ever
love.
J
Counselor,
we
don't
know
we
vaccinated
approximately
50
percent
of
our
staff
in
our
own
clinics,
but
that
was
months
ago,
same
issue
you
heard
from
ppd
folks
are
still
uploading
their
vaccination
cards.
I
would
hesitate
to
give
an
estimate
at
this
point,
but
we
know
the
number
is
of
higher
than
that
50
that
we've
accidented
on
our
own,
because
people
have
been
going
out
and
getting
vaccinated
at
other
other
locations.
J
G
Yes,
mr
chair,
this
is
councilmember
gilmore
richardson,.
G
Thank
you,
I'm
having
trouble
with
the
chat
this
morning,
so
at
any
rate,
commissioner,
good
morning,
it's
good
to
see
you
and
thank
you
again
for
your
service
I'll
just
say
no
matter
where
I
am
in
the
country.
You
are
highly
regarded,
and
I
was
even
at
the
coast
guard
academy
this
weekend
and
met
someone
who
said
they
had
worked
with
you
in
the
past,
so
I
just
wanted
to
again.
Thank
you
for
your
service.
G
J
Councilmember,
I
I
don't
have
detail
on
that.
We'd
have
to
get
back
to
you.
You
saw
in
the
the
prior
slides
from
pica
where
we're
under
our
spend
from
last
year.
It
would
be
hard
to
project
that,
though,
with
the
kind
of
unknown
impact
of
kova
going
forward,
plus
the
all
the
other
disasters
and,
of
course
our
core
mission
continues.
Unfortunately,
we've
already
had
25
fire
deaths
this
year,
152
injuries
and
more
than
1600
individuals
displaced
by
home
fires
here
in
philadelphia.
G
Sure
I
mean
I
know
you
all
had,
I
think,
a
17.1
percent
reduction
thus
far.
I
just
wanted
you
to
sort
of
notate
for
the
record
some
of
the
strategies
you
all
are
utilizing
to
sort
of
keep
overtime
costs
low,
knowing
that
we
have
a
number
of
significant
challenges
that
you
all
are
facing,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
the
staffing
challenges.
J
Councilman,
I
appreciate
that
I
I
frankly
would
not
expect
that
to
stay
under
candidly,
because
the
most
of
our
overtime,
more
than
80
percent
of
our
overtime,
goes
to
fill
minimum
staffing,
frontline
service
positions
on
fire
engines,
ladder,
trucks,
ambulances,
etc.
J
So
as
long
as
we
have
that
deficit
and
personnel
from
our
authorized
strength-
and
our
authorized
strength
also
includes
again
thanks
to
council
and
our
colleagues
at
budget
and
others
that
incorporates
a
relief
factor,
so
we
don't
have
to
use
overtime
immediately
if
somebody
is
using
their
using
their
earned,
leave
benefits
or
is
otherwise
off,
because
we
have
not
reached
that
level
right
now.
If
a
frontline
firefighter
emt,
medic
or
dispatcher
uses
their
earned,
leave
benefit
or
becomes
sick
or
something
else
happens,
we
have
to
use
overtime
to
fill
that
position.
J
We
don't
have.
We
cannot
operate
a
fire
engine
with
any
less
than
four
people
on
board,
so
we're
constantly
using
overtime
to
fill
those
positions.
So
I'm
not
sure
I
would
expect
that
to
to
stay
under,
although
I'm
hopeful,
of
course,
what
really
spiked
it
over
the
past
year
plus
was
the
impact
of
covet
on
our
workforce.
So
I
think
what
that
is
is
probably
we're
seeing
less
of
an
impact
on
the
workforce
every
day.
I'm
certainly
hopeful,
but
I
don't
know
that
I
would.
I
would
expect
that
to
continue.
G
Understood
I
just
wanted
to
to
quickly
highlight
you
know
the
deficit
and
personnel
and
versus
the
authorized
strength
that
you
all
have
in
the
fire
department
to
talk
about
recruitment
and
retention
strategies,
but
particularly
around
how
we
can
work
with
schools
like
randolph
and
others
to
create
a
pipeline
for
the
fire
department.
G
Can
you
just
talk
about
that
work,
a
little
more
so
that
you
know,
I
think
it's
a
real
opportunity
for
us
to
continue
to
decrease
over
time
by
recruiting
and
getting
more
young
people
into
these
positions,
and
I
don't
know
that
we're
doing
all
that
we
can
at
this
point
to
do
that
even
from
a
council
perspective.
So
I
just
wanted
to
to
ask
you
about
that.
J
Guys,
member,
I
appreciate
that
one
quick
follow-up
for
your
prior
question.
It's
just
it's
important
for
folks
to
understand.
We
control
when
our
employees
are
able
to
use
their
earned
leave
benefits,
so
by
contrast
to
many
other
businesses
or
even
some
of
our
other
agencies.
J
If
you
want
to
take
off
tomorrow-
and
there
are
already
so
many
people
who
are
scheduled
to
be
off-
we
don't
allow
you
to
take
to
take
vacation
or
take
annual
leave.
So
it
is
important
we
do
control.
It's
sort
of.
You
know
slot
limited
if
you're
able
to
take
off.
So
we
do
have
some
fairly
robust
controls
at
the
end
of
the
day.
As
long
as
we're
filling
minimum
staffing
positions,
that's
the
situation.
We
actually
so
we
we
don't
have
any
lack
of
interest
in
the
fire
department.
We
we
are.
J
We
already
have
thousands
of
applications
through
the
door
for
this
current
process.
So
we
really
have
no
lack
of
interest
in
firefighter
emt
positions,
we're
hopeful
that
will
continue.
We
are
still
building
our
our
pipelines
everywhere.
We
can
that's
one
reason
why
we
again
with
support
from
from
council
and
certainly
the
mayor's
office
open
the
7800
ogun's
facility.
J
J
Our
real
shortages
right
now,
the
place
where
we're
not
seeing
a
lot
of
interest
is
for
dispatchers.
So
this
is
another
one.
Certainly-
and
I
know
our
colleagues
at
ppd-
we
really
want
to
encourage
folks
to
think
about
that.
So
you
can
go
to
fellow.gov
and
find
the
officer
from
the
resources
page
and
check
out
being
a
dispatcher,
very
rewarding
career.
J
The
other
place
that
we
have
real
challenges
is
with
paramedics
advanced
life
support
providers.
There
is
a
national
and
a
state
shortage
of
advanced
life
support
providers,
so
we're
we're
not
alone
and
also
keeping
in
mind.
The
challenge
that
we
have.
We
have.
The
busiest
ambulance
in
the
entire
nation
is
here
in
philadelphia.
J
It's
not
in
new
york,
it's
not
in
l.a.
It's
not
in
houston
and
oh
by
the
way,
we're
the
second
busiest
fire
department
overall
of
any
city
in
the
nation
after
new
york,
not
houston,
not
la
even
the
cities
that
have
populations
that
are
greater
than
we
are
don't
have
the
same
workload
that
we
have.
So
it
is
a
challenge
for
us
to
recruit
advanced
life
support
providers,
which
is
why
a
lot
of
our
efforts
are
focused
on
emt
programs,
community
emt
programs
firing.
Ms
at
randolph
skills
academy.
J
J
While
we
continue
to
make
sure
that
we're
you
know
getting
as
much
out
there
as
possible
to
to
have
young
people
think
about
the
fire
department
as
a
career
as
well
as
the
office
of
emergency
management,
we
just
had
our
our
hurricane
program.
The
first
national
offering
of
the
hurricane
program
was
right
here
in
philadelphia.
J
So
that's
another
area
of
our
workforce
where
we're
doing
everything
we
can,
that
was
really
targeted
at
young
women
and
also
want
to
remind
everybody
that
firefighter
emts
paramedics,
emts
dispatchers,
very
dedicated
women
and
men
working
here,
24
7
365
for
the
fire
department
office,
emergency
management.
B
Thank
you,
council,
member
and
commissioner,
I
have
a
question
for
you
and
it's
kind
of
a
follow-up
to
my
colleague,
councilman
richardson's
question
over
the
next
four
years.
Do
you
have
any
idea
how
many
firefighters
emts
are
in
drop.
J
We
know
how
many
are
in
dropped
today,
but
it
I
we
don't
know
what
the
impact
is
of
the
long-term
impact
of
covet
on
our
workforce
might
be.
Of
course,
some
of
you
may
have
heard
of
this
long
covid,
even
folks,
who've
had
covet
and
recovered
from
it
have
longer
term
signs
and
symptoms
and
things
that
frankly,
might
be
incompatible
with
the
physical
demands
of
our
work.
So
we
are
concerned
about
what
it
looks
like
going
forward
from
drop
and
other
types
of
retirements
and
separations.
J
We
lose
somewhere
between
70
and
80
personnel,
every
uniform
staff
every
year,
which
is
why
it
takes
us
one
class
of
100
just
to
cover
that
attrition
and
then,
as
we
try
to
build
up
to
that
ultimate
authorized
position
strength.
So
we're
not
always
using
overtime
to
fill
the
you
know
very
reasonable
and
anticipated
daily
vacancies
that
occur
for
us
on
a
24,
7,
365
basis.
J
No,
it's
stayed
pretty
steady,
but
I
am
concerned
about
the
future.
Just
given
the
you
know,
our
folks
really
have
been
working.
They
always
work
hard,
our
core
mission.
Obviously,
as
you
heard
me
say,
second
busiest
fire
ems
department
in
the
nation
with
covet
and
the
additional
missions
and
with
the
disaster
responses,
and
it's
just
incredible
to
me
that
our
folks
are
still
doing
what
they're
doing,
which
is
out
there
serving
without
fail,
24
7..
I
am
concerned
about
how
long
we
can
do
this
at
the
current
pace,
without
additional
resources.
J
G
G
Do
you
know
how
many
of
your
employees
are
eligible
for
retirement
within
the
next
five
years.
B
Mr
theo,
thanks
for
your
testimony
today,
I'll
see
no
further
questions.
We
appreciate
you
being
here
and
thank
you
very
much
and
stay
safe
out
there
and
thank
your
department.
I
will
say
this:
every
interaction
I've
had
with
the
member
of
emt
fire
they're
they're,
the
best
they're,
really
good
people
and
they're
doing
a
great
job
helping
us.
So
thank
you
so
much.
Thank
you.
B
Okay,
thanks
all
right.
Next
before
we
get
to
the
prisons,
I
wanted
to
ask
commissioner
coulter
the
same
question.
I
asked
commissioner
theo
is
commissioner
coulter
still
on.
B
I
It's
higher
than
that
word
about
500
now,
500.,
that's
our
sworn
positions
and
we
have
additional
issues.
Like
commissioner
thiel
mentioned
in
dispatch
and
a
lot
of
our
civilian
positions
as
well.
B
Yeah
so,
as
I
assure
my
I'm
sure
my
colleagues
are
concerned
going
forward
in
the
next
four
years.
B
What
are
we
looking
at,
for
example,
how
many
rain
and,
as
my
colleague
councilmember
merchants
said
how
many
are
eligible
for
drop
like
what
is
that
going
to
look
like
and
how
do
we
make
sure
we
have
a
pipeline
to
fill
all
these
great
jobs
in
the
city.
I
Well,
our
numbers
in
the
drop
are
on
average
about
120
a
year
they're,
the
ones
that
we
know
are
leaving
moving
forward
for
the
three
years
and
we
did
the
four
years,
but
this
year
we're
already
in
progress.
So
this
year
we
had
about
a,
I
think,
118
that,
where
the
drop,
when
it
comes
to
drop
eligibility,
more
than
50
percent
of
our
department
would
be
drop
eligible
depending
on
what
contract
you're
in,
because
we
have
different
pension
plans
and
some
are
45.
I
Some
are
50,
but
we
have
a
large
number
who
won't
be
eligible
for
years,
but
a
large
number
who's
eligible
today
and
it's
just
a
decision
as
to
when
they
decide
to
leave
and
the
drop
is
a
great
indicator
to
give
you
what
you
know
you're
going
to
lose.
But
arguably
every
year
that
number
is
probably
double.
What's
in
the
drop
where
people
either
take
other
employment,
they
have
an
illness.
They,
you
know,
move
for
differently
reasons,
whether
it's
a
family,
illness
or
relocation.
So
the
drop
number
to
me
is
scary
enough.
I
The
real
number
you
know
scares
you
even
more
because
it's
the
unknown
that
you
really
you
try
to
plan
for,
because
on
average
years
we
used
to
treat
about
12
people
a
month
and
those
numbers
have
grown
specifically
in
the
last
two
years
and
not
attributed
to
any
one
source.
But
it's
been
a
rough
time
in
policing,
there's
been
a
pandemic,
there's
people,
you
know
our
cops
and
supervisors
are
people.
They
have
the
same
family
issues
that
everybody
else
has.
So
we
have
seen
greater
numbers
of
younger
and
older
employees.
I
Leave
you
know
the
employment
here
to
take.
You
know
either
other
jobs
or
early
retirements,
so
we
are
robustly
recruiting.
We
are
obviously
limited
to
the
city
of
philadelphia,
so
we
are
working
hard
to
make
sure
that
we
make
this
job
appealing
and
get
into
the
communities
and
actually
meet
people
where
they
are,
and
let
them
see
that
this
is
despite
what
commissioner
teal
says,
the
greatest
job
in
the
world.
I
So
I
think
policing
has
so
many
rewards
available,
so
many
opportunities
for
folks,
but
to
just
get
them
in
the
door
to
get
them
to
see.
What
many
of
us
have
gotten
to
see
over
the
years,
but
my
lieutenant
just
gave
me
my
number
for
the
drop
for
the
five
years.
It's
929
for
the
next
five
wow.
B
I
I
mean
policing,
despite
what
some
people
hear
or
how
the
climate
is
right
now
is
a
very
noble
profession,
if
you
do
it
honorably,
and
to
encourage
our
sons
and
daughters
and
nieces
and
nephews
to
become
part
of
this
is
to
to
expect
a
small
unit
to
recruit
those
folks,
especially
if
there's
not
that
hey
we
support
you
in
it
I
mean
I
didn't
tell
my
family.
I
was
becoming
a
cop
till
the
night
before
I
went
into
the
police
academy,
because
I
really
did
not
believe
that
they
would
accept
it
or
be
happy
about.
B
Do
we
have
any
kind
of
written
plan
as
to
how
we're
going
to
backfill
all
these
positions
that
are
open
now
and
over
the
next
four
or
five
years,
because
it
sounds
to
me
like
this
could
be
a
real
issue
for
us.
I
It
could
be,
and
it
could
be
for
quite
some
time
now.
We
have
we
currently
and
have
ongoing
recruitment
drives.
We
keep
you
know
our
situation,
open
that
we're
getting
people
in
and
we're
getting
candidates.
I
don't
know
that
we
will
get
the
number
of
qualified
candidates
in
those
years,
because
there's
a
lot
of
state
rules
and
regulations
that
are
beyond
the
control
of
the
police
department.
I
That
would
prohibit
somebody
from
becoming
a
cop
one
of
our
larger
concerns
and
we
are
working
with
the
police
foundation
and
some
other
folks
to
evaluate
the
tests
to
come
on,
which
is
the
nelson
denny
test
that
we
believe
that
tests
could
be
biased.
We
think
that
you
know
we're
going
to
be
turning
away.
City,
kids,
because
you
know
they
may
not
be
that
familiar
with
chaucer,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
they
could
certainly
provide
a
good
service.
I
So
we
have
folks
that
are
working
on
that
now,
because
there
is
rumors
that
the
state
will
raise
the
reading
level
to
11th
grade
and
we
have
a
lot
of
folks
who
have
graduated
from
high
school
struggling
to
read
at
a
9th
grade
level.
So
those
are
the
things,
the
barriers
that
we
can't
control,
because
it's
a
state
requirement
that
they
must
pass
the
test
and
they
must
to
enter
into
the
next
phases.
I
But
we're
looking
at
it
from
every
angle
to
say:
how
can
we
make
that
test
fair
and
then,
by
doing
so,
we
will
have
more
people
that
will
qualify
and
come
in,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
have
a
population
of
1.5
million
and
those
positions
must
be
filled
by
people
who
you
know
live
here
and
have
lived
here
for
a
year.
So
there
will
be
challenges.
But
I
know
that
deputy
wimberly
in
our
recruitment
section
and
every
one
of
us
takes
that
plan
to
say
hey.
I
I
So
once
we
hire
them,
we
don't
get
that
relief
immediately,
and
you
know
we
use
our
class
100,
which
is
our
lap
salary
to
make
up
those
vacancies
for
bodies
that
we
don't
have
to
put
on
the
street,
but
even
that
after
some
time
has
a
diminishing
return,
because
you
can
only
ask
cops
to
work
so
many
extended
shifts
and
days
off
before
that
fatigue
sets
in
and
then
they're.
You
know
not
able
to
do
it
seven
days
a
week,
so
we
do
need
to
fix
it.
I
We're
you
know,
obviously
working
with
in-city
government
to
find
a
way
to
get
people
hired
quickly
and
it's
a
full
commitment.
But
it's
not
something
that
you
can
make
somebody
do
they
have
to
want
to
be
a
cop
and
our
job
is
to
make
it
too
visible
to
the
public
that
this
is
a
great
job
and
it's
a
great
opportunity
for
them
to
make
a
difference
in
their
city.
B
Do
you
think,
commissioner
coulter,
that
at
some
point
we
should
consider
as
a
city
dedicating
one
to
whatever
number
of
high
schools?
We
need?
Ninth
to
twelfth
grade
for
police
fire,
emergency
training,
emergency?
You
know
emts
and
just
have
a
total
dedication
in
those
schools
for
those
positions,
even
understanding
that
I
think
is
it
the
minimum
age
for
policies
at
21.
It's.
B
22.,
so
we'd
have
to
have
some
sort
of
program
that
goes
from
18
to
22.
Also,
maybe
we
create
a
new
category,
but
we
actually
offer
people
a
career
path
and
a
track,
so
we
make
sure
that
they
can
qualify
for
these
jobs
and
we
train
them,
because
these
are
good
jobs
and
they're
jobs
that
have
a
lot
of
pride
to
them.
They
have
good
pay
and
they're
sustaining
jobs,
but
I
don't
I
just
want
to
see
if
we
can
make
sure
that
pipeline
comes
out
of
the
city.
I
Well,
I
I
believe
I
saw
one
at
major
city
chiefs
and
maybe
san
diego,
but
I
will
look
up
to
see
the
ones
that
have
them
and
to
see
how
successful
they
are
in
keeping
those
children
in
the
pipeline,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
still
their
choice
and
what
we
do
for
that
gap.
Four
years
as
to
whether
there's
some
type
of
auxiliary
position
or
something
that
we
can
move
them
into
city
employment
before
they
are
eligible
to
join
the
department.
G
Chair,
yes,
yes
apologize,
I
have
to
get
the
chat
teacher
working
today,
but
I
just
wanted
to
go
back
christine
coulter
first
to
thank
you
for
sharing
your
story
about
how
you
apply
for
the
police
department.
It's
a
little-known
story,
and
I
don't
think
I
ever
told
this
publicly
that
I
considered
being
a
police
officer
very
early
in
my
career,
and
I
went
back
and
told
my
mom
and
she
said
listen.
G
I
also
took
the
test
and
went
through
the
process
and
did
the
psychological
exam
and
your
father
asked
me
not
to
move
forward
in
the
process
because
he
was
afraid
of
his
wife
being
a
police
officer,
but
I
also
considered
that
as
a
career
very
early
in
my
career.
So
thank
you
for
sharing
your
story
because
the
stories
like
that
that
will
help
young
people
want
to
go
into
a
career
in
law
enforcement.
G
I
G
Okay
and
then
I
recently
this
summer,
visited
with
the
police
explorers
program
and
visited
with
the
young
people
who
are
part
of
the
program,
and
I
understand
that
they
do
receive
a
point
preference
when
they
apply
a
several
years
sort
of
break
in
there
because
they're
in
the
program,
potentially
when
they're
in
high
school,
but
they
can't
apply
until
a
certain
age.
So
how
are
you
sort
of
keeping
track
of
those
young
people?
Well.
I
We
allow
them
to
stay
in
explorers
until
they're
21,
so
we
keep
that
you
know
kind
of
connection
and
hold
until
they
can
apply,
but
it
is
challenging
because
there's
folks
that
you
know
at
the
end
of
the
day,
if
you
don't
go
to
a
four-year
college,
you
need
a
job
so
whether
you
go
work
for
pico
or
the
water
department
or
comcast
or
somewhere
that
doesn't
require
you
to
be
22
years
old.
It
creates
that,
and
now
you
have
two
three
years
with
a
company:
do
we
get
them
back
only
about.
I
think.
I
The
last
time
we
looked
is
only
about
20
of
our
explorers
do
become
police
officers.
A
lot
of
them
choose
military
careers
firefighter
other
noble
things.
It's
not
like,
there's
a
commitment
that
you
must
stay
with
us.
I
mean
the
ultimate
goal
of
explorers,
although
it
is
a
great
feeding
tool
is
to
just
help
create
great
young
men
and
women,
who
will
do
great
things,
no
matter
what
job
they
take,
but
even
the
number
of
explorers
could
never
support
our
number
of
vacancies
that
we
have.
G
Yeah,
I
just
I
wanted
to
really
double
down
on
the
comments
that
my
colleague
councilmember
don
made
around
our
overall
readiness
for
any
potential
employment
shortage,
particularly
in
this
department,
so
that
we
ensure,
on
the
front
end
we're
doing
all
that
we
can
around
recruitment
and
ensuring
that
we
can
get
young
people
who
live
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
others
in
the
pipeline
for
this
position,
knowing
that
there
is
a
potential
for
a
number
of
individuals
to
retire
or
leave
all
at
the
same
time,
and
in
addition
to
that,
I
think
you
know,
the
overall
concern
is:
is
that
you
know?
G
Are
we
doing
enough?
Are
we
doing
enough
currently,
meaning?
How
are
we
all
supporting
the
police
explorers
program
in
this
particular
budget?
What
additional
things
can
we
do
for
that
program?
How
are
you
all
interfacing
with
the
school
district,
knowing
that
the
residency
requirement
is
in
now?
How
are
you
supporting
the
school
district
to
create
this
pipeline
of
young
people
as
well?
G
I
And
it's
it's
like
something
that
keeps
me
up
at
night
councilwoman.
So
I
can
tell
you
that
it's
a
real
concern,
because
it's
not
I
mean
it's
not
a
job
that
appeals
to
everybody.
So
you
really
have
to
look
to
find
those
that
may
have
an
interest
and
then
get
them
to
be
wanting
to
be
part
of
the
team.
I
So
we're
looking
to
do
some
work
with
community
college
to
get
some
folks
there
in
their
criminal
justice
program
as
a
feeder,
because
now
they're
closer
in
age,
and
we
may
have
to
look
at
some
point
to
a
charter
change
to
dial
back
that
age.
A
little
one
of
the
things
that
we
compete
with
is
the
state
police
is
21..
So
we
have
some
folks
that
are
in
both
pipelines,
but
they
can
get
hired
sooner
somewhere
else
and
it's
a
civil
service
age
right
now
of
22..
I
That
may
be
something,
and-
and
I
don't
to
be-
I
have
to
be
honest-
I'm
not
really
certain
how
I
feel
about
it,
because
it's
an
awesome
responsibility
to
give
somebody
with
very
little
life
experience
a
gun,
the
ability
to
take
somebody's
life
for
their
freedom
without
having
other
things
to
draw
from.
So
you
have
to
be
careful
how
low
you
go
to
ensure
that
there
is
some
type
of
life
and
work
experience
before
we
put
folks
like
yester
trained
for
nine
months,
but
the
training
is
just
the
tip
of
the
iceberg.
G
No,
I
completely
understand.
I
also
just
wanted
to
mention
that
this
impacts
our
overtime,
though,
because
you
know
the
staffing
ratios,
it
will
impact
overtime
over
time,
so
we
have
to
plan
for
that,
and
I'd
be
more
than
happy
to
explore.
You
know
any
potential
changes
with
you
around
the
age
requirement.
I
mean
anything
more.
We
could
do
to
help
our
young
people
get
in
the
pipeline,
which
is
why
I'm
going
to
put
in
a
plug
for
this
bill.
G
I
introduced
the
bill
to
give
young
people
who
are
graduates
of
the
school
district,
a
point
preference
when
they
apply
for
positions
with
the
city
of
philadelphia,
and
I
know
we
received
a
lot
of
pushback
on
that
bill,
but
it's
important
for
us
to
ensure
that
we
can
create
a
pipeline
and
a
pathway
to
city
employment
for
all
of
our
young
people
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
So
thank
you
very
much
deputy
commissioner
coulter
and
thank
you,
mr
chair.
B
Thank
you
councilmember,
commissioner
coulter.
Thank
you
for
being
here
again
and
on
behalf
of
everybody.
We
want
to
thank
you
for
your
service.
Thank
the
commissioner
outlaw
and
the
whole
department.
We
appreciate
the
police
and
really
we
need
the
police
and
very
appreciative
and
more.
We
can
do
to
support
you.
Let
us
know
we
want
to
make
sure
that
you
have
enough
people
to
staff
the
city
correctly.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
being
here
today.
B
Let's
go
to
our
next
panelists,
which
I
believe
is
from
the
the
commissioner
of
prisons
had
to
leave
blanche.
Carney
played
the
deputy
commissioner
is
here
for
the
testimony.
So
I'd
like
to
call
on
the
deputy
commissioner,
for
is
that
xavier
uniform
give
the
testimony.
A
Yes,
councilmember
dom
good
well
now,
good
afternoon,
councilmember,
dom
of
the
council,
members
and
colleagues
that
are
on
this
hearing.
I
am
xavier
buford
deputy
commissioner
for
the
prisons
here
to
speak
on
resolution
200-406.
A
The
resolution
authorizing
the
committee
on
fiscal
stability
and
intergovernmental
cooperation
to
hold
quarterly
hearings
that
include
monthly
reports,
reporting
requirements
to
discuss
the
fiscal
positioning
over
charge
over
searching
overarching
search,
social
impact
goals
of
the
city,
including,
as
related
to
the
five-year
plan.
The
prisons
had
an
adopted
plan
of
222
million
and
we
came
in
at
218..
A
Some
of
that
savings
was
due
to
attrition
of
staff
that
have
retired
resigned,
just
went
to
other
places
and
also
some
of
the
savings
were
done
on
our
cut
of
inmate
work
plans
due
to
covet
mitigation
practices.
I'm
here
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
B
Thank
you
deputy
commissioner.
I
do
have
two
quick
questions
for
you.
I
think.
In
august
the
department
received
a
letter
from
the
pennsylvania
prison
society
raising
some
big
concerns
about
the
management
of
the
prisons
and
the
conditions
of
the
people
that
were
working
and
living
there.
Can
you
talk
about
the
department's
management
and
performance
in
the
wake
of
that
letter
and
give
us
a
sense
for
next
steps,
and
what
can
our
council
do
to
help
you
here.
A
Well,
currently,
council,
member,
dom
the
conditions
of
the
prisons
are
that
we
continue
with
our
covet
mitigation
efforts
of
keeping
the
prisons
as
clean
as
possible.
We
we
run
cleaning
regiments
throughout
the
entire
day
and
evening
to
try
to
keep
our
cases
down
when
we,
we
will
continue
with
that.
That
is
something
that
we've
always
done,
but
we
have
just
stepped
up
the
efforts
due
to
covet
19.
A
with
that
being
said,
you
know
at
times
due
to
our
staffing
problems,
the
inmates
were
not
getting
out
as
much
as
they
should
have
been,
so
we
have
come
up
with
a
plan
to
work
on
that
to
make
sure
that
they
get
the
time
out.
As
many
people
know,
we
are
under
some
court
litigation
right
now
that
calls
for
that,
so
that
also
getting
the
inmates
out
of
the
cells
to
clean
their
to
clean
their
living
spaces
also
helps
with
the
mitigation
practices.
A
B
And
I
know
I
know
you're
referencing.
It
was
a
federal
judge,
maybe
two
weeks
ago,
in
an
order
they
filed,
they
required
the
prisons,
I
guess
to
ramp
up,
hiring
ease
the
pandemic.
Lockdowns
institute
staff
cover
19
testing
and
trying
to
get
back
to
more
normal
operations.
Are
we
in
compliance
with
that
court
mandated
requirement.
A
Well,
we've
ramped
up
our
hiring
efforts.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
just
two
days
ago,
I
was
on
a
virtual
hiring
bazaar
with
the
community
college
of
philadelphia,
and
we
have
ohr
we're
partnering
with
several
agencies
throughout
the
city,
just
basically
piggybacking
on
some
of
their
hiring
bazaars
that
we
may
be
able
to
get
in
and
help
with.
A
You
know
us
getting
staff
on
board
also
so
we're
we
have
a
all
out
blitz
going
on
and
if
I
can
plug,
as
the
commissioner
till
did
currently,
the
prisons
has
an
opening
on
the
phillip.gov
website.
It
doesn't
close
until
october
15th.
A
Currently
for
uniform
positions
there
are
about
400.
B
A
Yes,
and
as
we
all
know,
historically,
the
prisons
is
like
the
stepping
stone
of
of
law
enforcement
once
people
get
in.
They
use
that
pipeline
to
some
some
people,
not
all
because
I
stayed
for
27
years,
but
they
use
that
pipeline,
of
course,
to
morph
into
the
police
department
morph
into
the
sheriffs
morph
into
state
police
or
even
the
fire
department,
and
that's
historically,
been
the
track
of
the
prisons.
A
So
we
just
try
to
keep
people,
keep
the
position
as
attractive
as
possible
and
get
as
many
people
in
as
we
possibly
can
covet
has
made
it
very
difficult.
B
A
We
we
are
definitely
partially
in
compliance
with
most
of
the
court
mandated
operations
and
we're
working
towards
the
other
items
that
need
to
be
done
that
the
plaintiffs
council
have
been
asking
for.
So
we
are
definitely
working
towards
everything
that
they're
asking
for.
B
One
last
question:
for
you:
is
there
any
way
to
include
new
measures
in
the
qcmr
that
address
the
conditions
for
workers
and
the
inmate
population
going
forward?
Is
that
possible.
A
I
think
it
is,
I
I
believe
it
is
possible,
you
know
just
so
it
for
all
transparency
so
that
it
can
be
shown
and
seen.
I
I
believe
we
can
put
that
in
to
show
what
what
we
are
doing.
B
Yeah,
I
think
that
would
be
very
helpful
to
see
that
so.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
today
and
please
pass
on
to
the
commissioner
and
the
whole
department
our
appreciation
for
all
the
work
you
guys
are
doing,
and
I
know
this
has
not
been
easy
during
covert.
This
is
not.
A
B
Next
we'd
like
to
call
deputy
director
for
streets
christopher
newman.
C
B
Thank
you,
deputy
commission.
I
actually
do
have
a
few
questions
for
you.
So
thanks
for
giving
me
the
time
to
do
that,
I
want
to
talk
to
you
for
a
minute
about
you
know.
I
know
we
have
to
install
these
ada
ramps
all
over
the
city
to
get
into
compliance
with
the
law,
but
it
looks
like
we
paid
like
in
zero
miles
in
the
fourth
quarter
of
fiscal
year.
B
21,
according
to
the
report,
isn't
that
typically
the
peak
paving
season-
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
deferring
so
much
the
maintenance.
C
Yeah,
so
our
so
that's
part
of
our
peak
paving
season.
It
goes
from
april
all
the
way
through
november
every
year.
So
that's
we
that
fourth
quarter
would
have
represented
a
good
chunk
of
what
we
would
have
normally
done
for
paving
the
ada
ramp
situation
held
us
back,
and
some
funding
issues
also
held
us
back
for
the
fourth
quarter.
C
D
C
C
B
So
we
have
to
put
whatever
resources
we
can
towards
that
application
process
and
push
whatever
we
can
to
get
that
money,
because
that's
that'll
be
a
nice
benefit
for
us.
Yes,
it
would.
Okay.
Second
question:
are
we
seeing
any
leveling
out?
I
know?
Last
year
we
talked
about
this,
the
refuse
tonnage
that
people
were
continuing
to
work
from
home
and
our
refuse
tonnage
picked
up.
Has
that
leveled
out?
Has
it
gone
down?
Where
do
we
stay
with
that?.
C
That's
an
interesting
story
because
we
actually
thought
it
would
start
leveling
out
when
people
started
going
back
to
work
last
last
winter.
Last
spring
it
actually
didn't.
If
you
look
at
the
peak
season
for
fiscal
year
fy21
and
compare
it
to
peak
season
for
fy
20,
it
actually
went
up
a
bit.
However,
since
july
we
have
some
good
news.
C
C
We've
been,
we
asked,
we've
been
waiting
for
that
to
occur
and,
like
I
said,
we
actually
thought
it
was
going
to
start
earlier
last
fiscal
year.
It
did
not
we're
hoping
that
the
trends
that
we're
seeing
now
just
are
constant.
We
think
my
own
personal
opinion
is
positive
and
I
think
it's
going
to
continue
because
people
are
people
are
back
to
work
and
back
to
school.
So
we
should
see
that
have
some
some
sort
of
impact.
B
Next
question
is
no
pun
intended
here,
but
as
this
body
council,
I'm
referring
to
paved
the
way
for
outdoor
dining
about
18
months
ago.
I
just
want
to
thank
you,
your
department,
everyone
on
the
streets,
you
guys,
I
think,
did
an
excellent
job
in
helping
the
city
get
through
this,
and
it's
really
important,
as
we
advance
this
year,
that
we
discuss
your
needs
to
implement
a
successful
enforcement
program
yeah
and
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
more
of
that
in
the
near
future.
B
C
B
B
So
that
don't
see
any
more
questions,
so
thank
you
for
your
testimony
today
and
please
thank
everybody
in
the
department
for
all
the
great
work.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Next
up
is
the
acting
commissioner
performance
of
licensing
inspections
route,
the
petrol.
K
Good
afternoon
councilmember
dom
and
members
of
city
council,
my
name
is
ralph
petro,
I'm
the
acting
commissioner
of
the
department
of
licenses
and
inspection.
I'm
here
today
to
testify
on
resolution
number
200406,
which
calls
for
hearings
to
discuss
the
fiscal
position
and
overarching
social
impact
goals
of
the
city,
including
and
as
related
to
the
five-year
plan
and
the
reporting
requirements
set
forth
in
the
quarterly
city
managers
report
and
has
submitted
to
the
pennsylvania
intergovernmental
cooperation
authority.
Pica.
K
The
quarterly
city
manager's
report
for
the
fourth
quarter
of
fy
21,
which
ended
in
june
30th
2021,
shows
the
projected
lmi
spend
at
38
million,
which
aligns
with
what
was
budgeted
and
is
unchanged
from
the
projections
from
last
year.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity,
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
B
Thank
you,
the
commissioner,
and
I
just
wanted
to
have
a
few
comments.
Not
many
but
kind
of
amazing
looks
like
you
managed
to
triple
the
rate
at
your
approval
of
residential
permits
and
which
is
phenomenal.
I'm
just
wondering
how
you
how
you
did
that
because
you
tripled
it,
which
is
amazing
to
me.
So
how
did
you
have
that
happen?.
K
Part
of
that
is
believe
it
or
not.
Some
of
that
working,
the
working
from
home
for
the
plans
examiner
was
actually
beneficial.
We've
seen
some
productivity
increases,
which
sort
of
seems
contrary
right.
You
would
imagine
that
would
be
less
productive,
but
we,
it
was
a
little
bit
slow,
starting
and
so
we've
seen
some
increased
productivity
there,
but
we've
also
seen
a
lot
of
that
due
to
the
ability
to
shorten
the
time
frame
of
interaction,
very
typically
plans
and
permits
fail
their
first
review,
it's
very
common.
K
What
would
normally
happen
is
that
would
create
a
lengthy
resubmission
process.
We
would
notify
the
applicant
they'd
gather
the
documents
they'd
come
to
msb.
Do
you
post
all
that
with
eclipse
with
our
system
eclipse
they're
available,
24
7.,
we
email
them
their
their
their
requirements,
it's
in
their
on
their
online
portal.
They
can
submit
it
in
the
middle
of
the
night
if
they
get
their.
You
know
if
they
happen
to
be
up
and
it
shortened
that
time
frame.
K
So
I
think
that
those
two
things
really
really
help
to
shorten
that
shorten
that
and
I
think,
there's
some
more
that
we're
able
to
do
with
some
of
the
the
new
functionality
we're
bringing
the
chat
function
online,
and
that's
really
helpful
for
folks
that-
and
this
is
really
residential
permitting
that
don't
apply
for
permits
regularly.
They
may
get
one
or
two
a
year
and
they're
not
quite
sure
how
to
navigate
the
process.
So
the
chat
function,
I
think,
will
help
to
to
shorten
that
timeframe
even
further.
B
Okay,
that's
great
and
so
question
second
question
is
from
your
success
on
the
proving
the
residential
permits.
What
are
the
lessons
we
can
learn
from
that
to
improve
the
commercial
permitting?
K
Yeah,
typically,
commercial
gets
to
be
a
little
bit
more
complicated,
simply
because
there's
zoning
implications
and
there's
much
larger
sort
of
projects,
but
I
think
one
thing
that
that
we
learned
transparency
is
really
a
a
helpful
tool
in
terms
of
making
our
process
more
easily
understood.
K
The
goal
of
lni
is
to
encourage
people
to
get
building
permits.
We
want
people
to
get
permits,
there's
you
know
all
kinds
of
estimates
about
how
much
work
sort
of
goes
on
without
permits,
and
certainly
much
of
that
is
true,
but
we
really
do
want
to
encourage
people
to
get
permits.
It's
the
search,
the
safest
way,
to
ensure
that
the
construction
is
done
safely.
So
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
ways.
We
are
more
transparent
in
terms
of
our
requirements.
K
I
think
there's
some
technology
upgrades.
You
know:
we've
we've
committed
to
investing
as
much
as
possible
in
our
technology
upgrades
improvements
to
the
website.
I
think
that'll
help
with
commercial
permitting.
I
think
predictability
as
we've
talked
about
before
is
typically
not
a
good
word,
but
for
us
it's
a
really
good
word.
Folks
should
understand
that
the
process
will
be
a
certain
way.
I
think
that
also
helps
it's
it's
kind
of
commercial
permit
applications.
K
You
have
to
kind
of
approach
from
a
bunch
of
different
perspectives
because
they
really
run
the
gamut
from
you
know:
renovating
a
small
restaurant
to
building
a
high-rise
building.
So
certainly
not
you
know
one
one.
One
solution
will
fit
all
those
possibilities,
but
I
think
that,
coupled
with
some
increasing
in
our
plans,
examination
staff
will
go
a
long
way
towards
cutting
off
that
cutting
down
the
commercial
permit.
At
times.
B
K
Yes,
sir,
so
the
the
goal
there
is
to
ensure
that
their
project
is
is
completed
in
time
to
qualify
for
the
abatement.
We
did
that
we
have
seen
some
increased.
There
was
a
couple
things
happening
here.
We
if
you
look
at
our
overall
sort
of
reporting,
the
actual
number
of
permits
is
down.
Even
though
revenues
are
higher
than
they've
ever
been
part
of.
That's,
because
we've
done
some
work
to
combine
permitting
and
and
so
we
reduced
the
need
to
issue
additional
permits.
K
So
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
we
were
expecting
some
level
of
increased
activity
and
that's
come
true
for
to
some
extent,
but
I
think
it's
it's
certainly
within
our
capabilities
to
handle,
although
I
do
encourage
folks
to
to
get
their
applications
in
sooner
in
the
event
that
there
is
some
kind
of
you
know,
last-minute
push,
but
based
on
what
we're
seeing
on
the
zoning
permits,
usually
a
good
indicator
of.
K
What's
going
to
happen
here,
we
look
at
zoning
permits
as
a
really
good
indicator
of
construction
strength
overall
in
the
city
and
they've
sort
of
been
there
they're
up
overall,
but
they've
sort
of
been
very
stable.
K
So
I
think,
while
we
do
expect
some
level
of
increase,
I
don't
think
it's
anything
that
we
can't
handle,
but
again,
just
because
the
the
process
can
be
can
be
lengthy
as
a
for
commercial
projects,
it's
probably
better
that
they
submit
their
permit
application
sooner
rather
than
later,
because
the
other
thing
is
the
end
of
the
year.
You
always
wind
up
with
you
know,
with
leave
issues
and
and
persona
personnel
issues
and
and
our
folks
have
been
working.
As
I
mentioned
last
during
our
last
meeting
throughout
the
pandemic.
K
There's
they're
certainly
stressed
we're
seeing
that
a
little
bit
in
our
in
our
leave
usage.
There's,
certainly
some
some
stress
to
that.
I
think
that's
also
coupled
with
working
from
home,
which
is
good
in
many
ways,
but
it's
also
we've
seen
it.
It
can
have
its
drawback,
for
example,
your
workplace
and
your
home
become
the
same.
That's
a
lot
for
people
to
handle.
B
All
right
well,
thank
you
very
much
and
keep
up
the
great
work.
Thank
you
thank
you
and
thank
your
department
for
all
the
great
work.
This
is
all
positive
things,
so
thank
you
very
much.
I
don't
see
any
other
questions.
Oh,
I
do
see
a
question
from
councilmember
gim
or
our
prisons
for
the
afternoon
council
member
game.
I
think
the
acting
the
deputy
commissioner
from
prisons
is
he
still
here.
He
is
yes,
stager,
yes,
okay,
I
think
councilmember
kim
has
a
question
for
you.
C
Yes,
thank
you
so
much.
Mr
chairman,
I
appreciate
it.
I
just
wanted
to
follow
up
on
char
chairperson
dom's
inquiry
about
compliance
in
the
federal
order.
You
said
that
the
you
said
that
your
department
is
in
partial
compliance.
Could
you
clarify
that
a
little
bit
more.
A
Yes,
what
I
mean
by
that
the
time
out
of
sale,
we
we
try
to
maintain
the
time
out
of
sale
time
for
the
inmates
and
what
that
means
is
the
actual
time
that
they
get
out
to
get
phones,
showers,
recreation
in
the
yards
weather,
permitting
things
like
that
when
we
are
short
of
staff,
sometimes
that
gets
impacted
and
the
time
out
of
sale
is
not
as
long
as
required
by
the
courts.
Right
now,
the
requirement
is
at
at
least
three
hours.
A
C
Okay
and
then
are
there,
are
there
areas
where
the
department
is
still
working
on?
I
mean
is
that
the
primary
area
that
the
honoring
the
full
length
of
time
out
of
sell.
A
Yes,
that
that
is
that
that
is
the
biggest
goal,
because
well,
if,
if
everyone
doesn't
know
when
we
do
have
the
inmate
population
out,
it
just
makes
the
day
easier
for
everybody,
because
all
all
the
scheduled
activities,
programs
and
things
like
that
that
could
be
running-
are
running
without
a
hitch
of
course
official
visiting
regular
visiting
when
it
was
available.
Things
like
that.
So
that's
why
that's
our
biggest
goal.
C
Okay,
and
does
the
department
have
a
timeline
about
you
know
what
you
are
expecting
I
mean
look.
I
know
a
lot
of
this
has
to
do
with
your
staffing
issues
and
all
of
that,
but
is
there
a
timeline
that
you
have.
A
We
we
can't
put
a
timeline
on
it,
but
what
we
can
say
is
that
we
currently
we
just
graduated
a
small
class
roughly
two
and
a
half
weeks
ago,
we
have
a
class
in
the
academy
right
now
and
we're
going
to
keep
running
classes
as
much
as
we
can
to
get
our
numbers
up.
The
getting
the
numbers
up
in
the
staffing
will,
of
course,
aid
us
in
and
making
sure
that
we
are
in
compliance
with
the
federal
order.
C
And
there
are
allegations
that
some
individuals
have
not
been
let
out
of
cells
for
days.
Is
that
something
that
you
can
confirm
or
contest.
A
No
anytime,
we
hear
that
that
the
first
thing
we
do
is
we
investigate
to
make
sure
that
that
is
not
happening.
If
anyone
does
have
that,
we
usually
go
back
to
our
logs
to
make
sure
that
they
have
we
we
log
showers,
we
log
phone
calls
we
log
recreation
to
make
sure
that
this
did
happen.
So
anybody
that
we
get
in
the
complaints
that
we
get
you
know
from
family
members
or
whoever
we
usually
we
jump
right
on
it
when
we
do
get
those
complaints.
C
And
then
my
final
question
is,
you
know,
I
know
that
there's
been
efforts
around
staffing.
Do
you
know
what
efforts
have
been
made
about
reducing
the
number
of
individuals
that
are
currently
being
held,
whether
it's
like
through
increased
bail?
Has
your
department
or
division
been
active
and
working
with
the
municipal
courts
to
speed
things
up
through
alternative
measures
and
make
sure
people
get
their
initial
hearing
so
that
they
can
be
out?
I
mean,
obviously,
the
vast
majority
of
individuals
are
pre-trial.
They
have
not
been
convicted.
C
A
A
And
yes,
and
working
with
the
criminal
justice
partners-
and
we
just
had
some
meetings
on
it-
you
know
just
making
sure
that,
like
the
big
three
which
helps
get
inmates
out
of
custody,
bench
warrant,
hearings,
the
early
bail
releases
and
the
gag,
now
one
hearings
making
sure
that
they
get
heard
a
lot
of
them
can
be
heard.
Virtually
we
have
stood
up
virtual
capabilities
throughout
all
of
the
facilities
to
so
the
courts
could
work
in
getting
these
guys
out.
C
Okay,
you
know,
obviously
we
are
tracking
this,
because
it's
an
important
issue
for
us
and
it
does
have
financial
implications
because
of
the
court
mandate.
So
thank
you
very
much,
mr
turn.
Thank
you
very
much
deputy
commissioner
buford.
B
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
councilmember
again
great
questions.
Thank
you,
and
so
I
don't
believe,
there's
any
other
questions,
so
I
want
to
thank
all
the
witnesses
for
being
here
today
and
for
your
insight.
We
appreciate
your
testimony
today,
look
forward
to
working
with
you
in
the
future
and
again
I
want
to
say
we're
going
to
be
here
and
continue
to
report
out
on
our
financial
position
and
performance.
Again.
I
know
one
of
the
more
important
things
that
I'd
like
to
see
happen
from
this
meeting
today.
B
Is
that
plan
for
the
violence
prevention
and
how
we're
going
to
evaluate
and
measure
it
because,
clearly
right
now,
the
number
one
issue
for
all
of
us
in
the
city
is
violence.
Prevention
do
I
feel
safe
living
in
the
city,
and
we
have
to
make
sure
that
that
happens.
That
is
key
for
all
of
us,
so
we're
committed
to
it
we're
going
to
make
it
happen.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
and
I
look
forward
to
seeing
you
soon,
hopefully
in
person.
Thank
you
very
much.
Take
care.