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From YouTube: Committee on Law and Government 4-22-2021
Description
The Committee on Law and Government of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Wednesday, April 21, 2021, and recessed the public hearing until Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 1:00 PM. This public hearing will be held in a remote manner using Microsoft® Teams to hear further testimony on the legislative item listed below:
210295 Resolution authorizing the Committee on Law & Government to hold hearings examining the decision to permanently move sheriff sales online, and further to explore the ramifications of and any unintended consequences that may arise from this decision.
A
A
We
are
using
microsoft
teams
to
make
these
remote
hearings
possible
instructions
for
how
the
public
may
view
and
offer
public
testimony
and
public
hearings
of
council
committees
are
included
in
the
public
hearing,
notices
that
are
published
in
the
daily
news,
inquirer
and
legal
intelligencer
prior
to
the
hearings
and
can
also
be
found
on
phl
counsel,
dot
com.
I
now
note
that
the
hour
has
come
rachel.
Will
you
please
call
the
role
to
take
attendance
members
that
are
in
attendance?
A
Will
please
indicate
that
you
are
present
when
your
name
is
called
also,
please
say
a
few
brief
words
when
responding
so
that
your
image
will
be
displayed
on
screen
when
you
speak
and
rachel
I'm
going
to
ask
that
you
start
with
members
of
the
committee,
but
there
are
also
several
other
members
of
council
who
are
joining
us,
who
are
not
formerly
members
of
council,
but
will
be
participating
in
this
hearing
as
if
we
were
in
our
council
chambers.
Thank.
E
B
A
Can
you
all
hear
me
now?
Yes,
okay,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
A
quorum
of
the
committee
is
present
and
this
hearing
is
now
called
to
order.
This
is
the
continued
public
hearing
of
the
committee
on
law
and
government
regarding
resolution
number
two,
one:
zero,
two,
nine
five
rachel
will
you
please
read
the
title
of
the
resolution.
A
A
By
continuing
to
be
in
the
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
being
recorded
additionally
prior
to
recognizing
members
for
the
questions
or
comments
they
have
for
witnesses.
I
will
note
for
the
record
at
this
time
that
we
will
use
the
chat
feature
available
in
microsoft
teams
to
allow
members
to
signify
that
they
wish
to
be
recognized
in
order
to
comply
with
the
sunshine
act.
The
chat
feature
must
only
be
used
for
this
purpose
now
before
rachel
calls
the
first
panel.
A
I
want
to
make
a
few
opening
comments
and
the
first
one
is
colleagues
you
saw
me
get
kicked
off
at
the
end
of
council.
My
internet
went
out
if,
in
fact
it
were
to
do
such
in
the
midst
of
this
hearing.
Our
vice
chair,
derek
green,
has
been
given
the
script
for
this
hearing
and
we
will
be
moving
along
with.
That
being
said,
I
want
to
be
very
clear
in
stating
for
the
record
what
this
hearing
is
not
about-
and
I
want
to
repeat,
is
not
about.
A
A
Now,
while
the
sheriff's
office
has
recently
indicated
that
the
move
to
virtual
sales
is
a
pilot
instead
of
a
permanent
move,
the
questions
contained
in
the
resolution
still
remain.
The
decisions
to
conduct
a
share
of
sales
via
an
online
platform
could
have
much
larger
land
use
implications
beyond
just
even
individual
homeowners,
and
we
need
to
understand
how
this
new
system
will
impact
both
homeowners
and
the
neighborhoods
in
which
they
live
now.
A
I
know
my
colleagues
share
my
concern
that
if
the
process
changes
too
much
and
too
quickly,
this
could
accelerate
and
exacerbate
negative
trends
such
as
homeowner
displacement,
neighborhood
instability
and
a
proliferation
of
investor
owned
rental
properties.
In
fact,
many
of
my
colleagues
who
are
not
members
of
this
committee
asked
to
join
the
hearing
today,
specifically
because
they're
so
concerned,
and
I
want
to
for
the
record-
let
them
know
that
I
appreciate
them
taking
the
time
to
participate
in
the
discussion
on
this
very
important
issue.
A
A
This
may
be
a
little
lengthy
if,
in
fact,
for
any
reason
you
have
to
jump
off,
we
understand
we'll
make
sure
your
testimony
is,
of
course
included
on
the
record.
But
I
am
asking
you
wholeheartedly
asking
you
to
do
your
best
to
stay
with
us
so
that
you
can
read
your
own
testimony
and
put
it
on
the
record.
I
want
this
hearing
to
proceed
in
a
respectful
manner
as
city
council.
A
We
respect
that
the
sheriff
is
an
independently
elected
office,
but
we
are
also
exercising
city
council's
authority
to
ask
questions
now
for
those
of
you
who
are
viewing
at
home
again
it.
This
may
be
pretty
lengthy
and-
and
I
expect
it
to
go
well
past
five-
we
will
hear
from
a
series
of
panels
of
testifiers
and
then
a
loud
public
comment
where
constituents
who
have
reached
out
to
my
office
in
advance
of
this
hearing
will
be
dialed
into
the
hearing
by
council's
tech
support.
A
I
appreciate
everyone's
patience
in
giving
this
issue
the
thorough
examination
that
it
requires.
I
also
want
to
note
that,
for
those
who
are
interested
and
speaking
during
the
public
comment
period,
the
deadline
according
to
council's
standard
operating
procedure
was
tuesday,
tuesday.
That
was
the
deadline
to
call
to
note
for
the
record
that
you
were
interested
in
participating
during
the
public
comment
period,
and
I
just
needed
to
say
that
for
the
record
with
that
being
said,
rachel
will
you
please
call
the
first
panel.
D
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair,
and
I
just
also
wanted
to
thank
you
for
your
leadership
on
this
issue
and
for
holding
this
hearing
and
for
laying
out
what
what
I
believe
will
be
a
very
thorough
and
lengthy
discussion
of
the
importance
of
the
the
proposal
that
the
sheriff
has
made
a
couple
of
things
that
I
also
wanted
to
note.
You
know
I.
I
also
had
a
chance
to
talk
to
sheriff
bilal
and
again
repeat
your.
D
You
know
comments
that
we
absolutely
respect
the
independence
of
the
office,
but
the
important
thing
about
this
issue
is
that
share
sales,
not
only
impact
the
broader
residence
of
the
city
of
philadelphia,
but
we
have
a.
We
have
a
devoted
land
bank.
We
have.
You
know
we
have
the
city
of
philadelphia,
we
have
the
school
district
of
philadelphia,
we
have
philadelphia
gas
works.
D
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
gim,
for
your
comments.
They
are
greatly
appreciated.
The
chair,
for
the
record
also
wants
to
recognize
that
I
just
see
that
member
of
this
committee
council,
member
david
o,
has
just
arrived.
Thank
you
councilmember
owen,
your
your.
Your
name
will
be
added
to
the
attendance.
J
J
J
Tyreek
el
shabazz
esquire
is
underserved
apprentice.
That's
what
we
call
them
good
afternoon.
Everyone
janae
ayers
esquire
that
is
sitting
to
my
left,
is
my
chief
of
staff
daryl
stewart
director
of
real
estate,
download
melissa
simpson
is
deputy
director
of
real
estate
good
afternoon
greg
salisbury
public
information
officer.
J
J
During
this
time
when
cells
were
put
on
pause,
we
researched
alternative
ways
to
fulfill
our
legal
duties.
The
surest
cell
generated
revenue
for
the
city,
so
it
was
crucial
for
us
to
determine
how
we
were
going
to
proceed
safely
and
efficiently
according
to
the
rule
of
law,
while
also
keeping
in
mind
the
citizens
who
have
been
affected.
J
I
established
a
constituent
service
department
to
better,
provide
and
offer
information
and
assistance
to
those
in
need.
This
department
was
created
to
serve
the
homeowners
from
for
from
providing
them
with
information
and
resources
on
how
to
save
their
homes,
to
informing
them
about
how
to
recover
any
excess
balance
resulting
from
the
sale
of
their
home.
J
J
Bifid
assets
was
clearly
the
best
choice
to
produce
a
virtual
cell
that
most
closely
mirrored
our
in-person
cell
throughout
the
process
of
transitioning
to
virtual
cells.
I
did
my
best
to
postpone
all
sure
sales,
but
in
december
of
2020
we
received
court
order
67
and
68,
which
clearly
stated
that
all
sheriff's
cell
must
resume
april
of
2021.
J
J
J
J
J
J
We
now
have
a
cost-efficient,
state-of-the-art
platform
that
allows
us
to
save
money
by
removing
the
cost
of
an
auctioneer,
the
rental
space
and
fees,
so
that
homeowners
can
benefit
more
from
that
from
the
resulting
excess
funds
and
my
staff
can
maintain
their
jobs.
In
my
budget,
I
was
elected
by
the
citizens
of
philadelphia
to
bring
change
to
the
sheriff's
office.
J
I
am
willing
to
work
with
this
committee
and
review
the
matrix
and
look
forward
to
receiving
feedback
and
suggestions
to
improve
the
virtual
sales
for
the
city
and
the
county
of
philadelphia.
I
am
a
child
of
philadelphia.
I
grew
up
in
the
neighborhoods
of
this
city.
I
understand
wholeheartedly
the
spirit
of
everybody's
suggestions
and
the
impact
that
they
believe
this
may
make.
J
A
Thank
you,
testimonial
getting
a
little
beat
okay,
it
just
went
away
with
whatever
you
all
did.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
sheriff
below
I'm
gonna
start
with.
With
this
first
question
on
one
I
just
want
to
state
for
the
record.
You
know
I
heard
you
just
state
just
now
that
you
have
walked
back,
that
the
that
the
decision
to
move
to
the
virtual
platform
was
a
pilot
and
that
it
was
not-
and
you
said
you-
you
know
you've
said
that
to
me
verbally
on
two
or
three
different
occasions.
A
A
A
The
court's
letter
implies
that
all
you,
as
the
sheriff
had
to
do,
was
to
ask
for
a
postponement
and
the
courts
would
have
granted
it,
but
it
appears
sheriff
that
that
you
chose
and
you
we
talked
when
council
had
a
briefing
you
remember.
I
formally
asked
on
behalf
of
council
during
that
briefing
you
checked
and
said
that
that
was
not
something
that
that
you
could
even
do,
but
the
courts
have
just
told
us
that
you,
and
only
you
in
essence,
have
the
power
to
change
the
dates.
A
J
J
I
basically
stated
that
the
court
order
said
that
we
are
going
in
april.
I
couldn't
come
up
with
a
legitimate
reason
or
a
truthful
honest
one
to
postpone
it,
because
I
could
not
lie
and
say
there
was
a
problem
because
there
wasn't.
I
couldn't
lie
and
say
that
any
technical
stuff
was
going
on.
There
wasn't.
The
reason
why
I
asked
for
postponement
for
the
whole
year
was
basically
because
we
could
not
do
our
legal
duty
because
of
the
pandemic
and
not.
E
K
A
Sheriff,
let
me
just
stay
for
the
record
that
you
and
your
team
are
feel
free
in
your
response
to
identify
any
particular
pieces
of
of
this
letter
that
you
seem
appropriate.
But
I
do
just
want
to
step
the
record
that
the
sheriff's
office
can
have
one
interpretation
of
this
letter.
We
have
another,
but
plainly
the
the
letter
says
that
the
sheriff's
office
chooses
the
dates
the
sheriff's
office
chooses.
L
J
A
J
Councilwoman,
I'm
not
saying
that
you
don't
understand,
I'm
just
saying
I
we
understand
that
one
way
you
may
understand
it
another
way,
so
I'm
not
trying
to
get
in
a
fight
with
you
at
all,
I'm
just
making
clear
as
to
how
we
understand
it
versus
that
and
I'm
dealing
with
my
real
estate
people
as
far
as
the
dates
so
I'll.
Let
daryl
answer
that
daryl,
hello,.
B
We
receive
a
a
mortgage
for
a
mortgage
for
closure,
we'll
receive
a
rid
of
execution
and
that
rate
of
execution
expires
within
three
months.
So
the
attorneys
are
given
a
a
sales
date.
They
decide
when
and
when
they
want
to
send
us
a
writ
for
us
to
follow
all
the
court,
the
the
statues
to
to
expose
that
property
to
sheriff's
sale.
It's
it's
it's
a
it's
a
very
lengthy
process,
and
normally
it
takes
about
three
months
for
that
property
to
be
exposed
for
sheriff's
sale.
So
we
can't
actually
pick
a
date.
B
B
They
sent
us
over
decrees.
The
decrees
have
exploration
date
of
three
months
and
that's
when
we
schedule
the
problems
we
advertise
the
properties
pursuant
to
the
rules
of
still
procedure
at
least
three
times
prior
to
the
auction.
We
have
to
print
up
hand,
bills
that
we
post
on
properties
at
least
30
to
21
days
prior
to
the
sale
and
at
that
exploration
that
we
will
finish
schedule
for
sheriff's
cell,
but
that
writ
or
that
decree
does
have
an
exploration
date
set
forth
by
the
courts.
The
com.
A
A
A
M
M
Those
are
all
legal
reasons
to
request
of
the
court,
to
postpone
or
to
continue
a
an
order
and
to
not
carry
out
that
particular
function.
To
I
don't
think
that,
and
I'm
going
to
be
very,
very
clear
and
I
don't
think
I'm
taking
for
granted
the
feelings
of
the
sheriff
I
I
would
submit
to
you
that
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
on
this
and
I
understand
her
feelings.
I
don't
think
that
the
sheriff
meant
to
imply
and
so
that
this
record
can
be
clear.
M
I
don't
think
the
sheriff
meant
to
imply
that
this
was
not
a
legitimate
reason.
I
think
that
the
better
term
to
use
is
it
wasn't
a
legal
reason.
You
can't
just
go
before
a
court
who
has
ordered
you
to
carry
out
a
function
that
is
part
of
your
responsibility
and
say
judge.
We
need
to
continue
this
because
we
need
to
have
a
conversation
to
explain
further
to
counsel
or
that
we
need
to
have
a
hearing,
because,
although
that
is
a
legitimate
reason
to
say
court,
you
know
look.
Can
we
do
it
this
way,
we.
N
M
Say
to
them
that
we
can't
carry
out
that
function.
There
was
nothing
that
existed.
That
would
prohibit
the
sheriff's
office
for
carrying
out
its
audit
function,
so
we
have
to
look
at
it
in
that
vein
and
I'm
not
submitting
to
you.
There
are
people
that
are
on
this
council
that
I'm
very
familiar
with
that
are
attorneys
and
so
they're
familiar
with
the
processes
of
continuing
cases
or
continuing
particular
actions.
We're
not
saying
to
you
not
at
all
that
is
not
legitimate
questions
or
concerns.
In
fact,
we
had
the
initial.
M
I
believe
teams
trying
to
kind
of
allay
some
of
the
feelings
it
could
have
been
done
in
a
different
manner
in
terms
of
discussing
it
with
city
council.
There's
no
doubt
about
that,
but
I
think
to
make
sure
that
the
record
is
clear:
the
sheriff
is
not
initially
it
was
taken.
That
way.
Let
me
clarify
the
sheriff
is
not
saying
that
concerns
of
city
council
or
the
citizens
of
philadelphia
is
not
legitimate.
M
That
is
a
concern
that
we
have
in
the
sheriff
department.
That
is
different
than
maybe
the
major
concerns
that
maybe
city
council
would
have
with
respect
to
constituents,
we're
concerned
with
them
as
well
we're
concerned
with
their
feelings
as
well.
That's
why
there
was
literature
put
out
that's
why
we
had
classes
on
how
to
do
this.
That's
why?
Each
time
the
sheriff
goes
out
for
delivering
food
and
and
doing
things
during
the
pandemic,
we
handed
out
pamphlets
telling
people
where
to
go.
M
At
least
I
haven't
found
that
in
my
30
plus
33
plus
years
of
practice,
going
before
a
judge
and
saying
judge,
I
just
want
to
continue
the
case
so
that
I
can
have
a
discussion
for
two
months.
I
wanted
to
continue
your
order.
I
want
you
to
delay
your
order
so
that
I
can
have
a
discussion.
This
letter
does
not
say
that
all
the
sheriff
had
to
do
was
write
us
a
letter
and
request
that
it
be
continued.
M
In
fact,
the
letter
says
that
the
the
sheriff
continued
it,
but
the
reason
what
the
for
the
continuance
was,
one
federal
and
state
and
city
agencies
weren't
doing
any
of
this
at
that
time
and
then,
when
it
became
available
and
the
order
was
set,
we
had
to
do
it
in
a
timely
fashion.
So
I
would
like
the
record
to
reflect
that,
and
I
presume
that
the
letter
from
the
judge
will
be
part
of
of
this
record
as
well
and-
and
I.
M
A
A
Thank
thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
response,
and
we
appreciate
you
getting
all
of
that
on
the
record
the
judge's
letter,
the
letter
from
the
courts
will
be
included
as
a
part
of
the
public
record.
I
also
appreciate
your
acknowledging
that
this
you
know,
could
have
been
handled
in
a
much
a
more
conciliatory,
informative
and
perspective
from
a
different
perspective,
with
a
strong
intergovernmental
cooperation
and
plan
any
spirit
to
it.
A
With
that
being
said,
sheriff,
although
again
the
website
still
says
permanent,
you
are
saying
the
program
is
going
to
be
a
pilot
and
council
members,
gim
and
gaultier.
I
want
you
to
know,
I
see
you
in
queue
and
I'm
coming
to
you
in
a
second.
You
said
that
it
will
be
a
pilot,
what's
what's
the
politic
period
and
how
are
you
going
to
evaluate
the
program?
What
factors
are
you
going
to
use
to
determine
whether
or
not
this
change
should
remain
a
pilot
or
stay
permanent.
J
This
was
one
of
the
questions.
Can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
I
can
hear
you
now.
Yes,
that
was
one
of
the
concerns
as
what
the
matrix
are.
We
are
coming
back
probably
about
six
months.
We
said
three
to
six
months,
so
that
we'll
be
able
to
measure
how
this
is
working
for
philadelphia
and
it
all
still
depends
on
whether
we
are
opened
up
if
we
need
to
go
to
another
plan
and
it
gives
you
the
matrix.
I
think
that
is.
J
A
The
buyer's
premium
which,
for
the
benefit
of
the
public,
is
on
top
of
the
sales
price
1.5
for
mortgage
foreclosure
properties
and
10
for
tax
foreclosure
properties
and
then
now
the
full
payment
by
winning
bidder
is
due
within
15
calendar
days,
instead
of
the
30
calendar
days.
What
what's
the
rationale
behind
that
decision
making
and
why
were
those
decisions
made
sheriff.
F
F
F
The
properties
are
priced
very
high
in
this
day
and
age,
and
so
we
felt
that
10
000
was
a
good
metric
when
it
came
to
keeping
people
who,
who
may
not
be
able
to
pay
the
full
amount
out
of
the
bidding
process.
And
what
that
means
is
this
one
of
our
last
sales?
We
had
204
people
who
actually
came
up
with
ten
thousand
dollars
and
put
it
into
the
system
to
bid.
F
So
that's
how
we
arrived
at
that
conclusion.
As
for
the
tax
sales
is
fifteen
hundred
dollars,
that's
the
minimum
bid,
because
we
have
lots
and
other
prices
other
price
properties
that
are
low
price.
We
felt
that
would
be
a
good
starting
point.
So
persons
who
are
bid
for
that
again,
fifteen
hundred
dollars
and
you
have
to
pay
and
the
reason
that
we
came
up
with
these
fees
or
the
add-ons
the
ten
percent
to
bid
for
assets.
F
I'm
sorry,
yes,
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
did,
that
is,
we
were
looking
at
a
way
to
get
the
money
into
the
coffers
of
the
city,
and
we
found
that
15
days
would
work
better
for
us.
It's
also
becoming
a
pretty
big
accounting
nightmare
if
we
had
to
go
through
30
days.
So
what
we
chose
was
something
that
would
help
us
in
the
accounting
function,
as
well
as
putting
money
in
the
coffers
of
the
city.
So
we
chose
15
days.
A
Thank
you
sheriff.
Is
this
still
standard
operating
procedure
that
we
will
not
have
any
bidders
who
are
tax
delinquent
in
the
city
of
philadelphia?
Is
that
still
your
standard
operating
procedure?
That's
correct,
so
no
one
should
be
bidding
that
is
tax
delinquent
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that's
clear.
No.
J
You
would
have
that
see
it's
not
about
whether
you
bid
it's
about
finishing
up
the
sale.
That
means
you
can
bid,
but
before
you
can
come
in
and
pay
the
balance
on
the
property
that
you
are
buying,
if
you
are
winning
bitter,
then
you
have
to
have
a
certificate
from
the
city
that
says
you
are
not
tax
delinquent.
A
A
K
K
A
D
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair.
So
I
think
one
of
the
questions
that
came
up
was
what
would
be
a
legitimate
reason
to
postpone
the
implementation
of
this,
and
I
feel,
like
a
very
important
legal
and
legitimate
reason
to
postpone
would
be
to
ensure
that
whatever
the
new
process
was
that
it
would
have
to
be
compliant
with
laws
and
regulations
on
the
books,
and
it
sounds
like
there
are
significant
concerns
that
have
been
raised
particularly
around
the
land
bank
and
angel
rodriguez
will
be
testifying
later
about
it.
D
B
D
D
B
N
B
We
understand
that
they
are
going
to
participate
in
the
sale,
so
the
only
thing
that
land
bank
we
they
need
to
follow
they
they
will
follow
the
same
procedures
that
they
followed
in
the
past.
Nothing
has
changed.
They
will
give
us
they
will.
They
will
provide
us
a
list
of
all
the
properties
that
there
have
an
interest
in.
We
will
enter
that
information
into
our
telesoft
into
our
systems
and
we
will
follow
the
same
protocols,
rules
and
regulations
that
we
follow
during
a
live
auction.
D
B
D
D
J
Right,
well,
I
don't
think
you
can
say
a
councilman
again.
Let
me
just
say
this:
the
land
bank
has
an
agreement
with
the
city
law
department
in
reference
to
the
tax
sales
and
tax
lien
sales
and
reference
to
profits.
Their
agreement
is
with
them.
Their
agreement
is
not
with
the
sheriff's
office,
though
we
understand
that
they
are
listed
on
every
cell,
but
when
it
came
to
this
cell,
my
understanding
and
and
check
me
if
I'm
wrong,
that
the
land
bank
had
no
funds
in
order
to
enter
into
any
of
these
cells
at
this
time.
J
D
I
think
that
the
issue
is:
is
that
and
to
be
clear?
Barry
is
my
terminology,
but
the
belief
that
if
you
appear
in
ninth
paragraph
19
out
of
21
paragraphs
on
an
information
form
when,
when
you
can
be
a
primary
bidder,
would
be
something
that
the
land
bank
itself
has
concerns
about.
The
concerns
I'm
raising
to
you
are
not
about
personal
opinion.
D
The
memorandum
of
agreement
is
also
not
with
the
law
department,
the
memorandum
of
understanding
between
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
is
with
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
the
land
bank,
and
also
involves
other
entities
which
includes
the
school
district
of
philadelphia.
Philadelphia
gas
works
multiple
law
firms
if
there
needs
to
be
a
change
in
the
process
that
impacts
the
memorandum
of
understanding.
D
D
D
Should
you
postpone-
and
one
of
the
reasons
to
postpone,
is
because
a
very
important
partner
on
this,
which
is
the
land
bank
and
all
of
us,
are
here,
because
we
do
not
want
to
see
distressed
properties,
you
know
being
snapped
up
irresponsibly
by
large-scale
operators
who
have
tanked
the
real
estate
industry,
time
and
time
again
in
other
cities.
This
is
what
we
saw
happen:
post
2008.
D
This
is
what
we
could
see
happen
post
this.
You
know
pandemic,
and
it
is
our
responsibility
to
work
collectively
to
ensure
that
the
city
of
philadelphia
does
not
fall
victim
to
larger
schemes
that
have
been
in
play
before
we've
seen
this
before
this
is
not
about
you
know,
fear-mongering
or
anything
like
that.
We
know
this
is
a
process
that
frequently
happens.
You
have
made
dramatic
changes
that
council
member
parker
laid
out
that
have
profound
impact
on
the
ability
of
the
philadelphia
land
bank
to
be
able
to
be
a
participating
partner.
D
Not
only
are
there
issues
that
were
laid
out
in
terms
of
the
fact
that
the
land
bank
being
a
right
to
bidder
and
is
able
to
present
its
bid
ahead
of
time.
Not
only
is
that
not
clearly
presented
in
in
your
informational
work,
but
that
you
know
the
land
bank
bids
must
be
presented
at
the
beginning
of
a
sale
as
required.
It
is
at
the
beginning.
D
And
I'd
like
to
finish
second
of
all,
the
land
bank
had
now
has
is
now
as
council.
Member
parker
laid
out
must
now
submit
a
a
deposit
and
a
registration
fee,
and
most
shockingly
it
must
now
pay
a
10
premium
if
winning
a
bid.
Now
those
dollars
of
you
know,
the
land
bank
is
meant
to
protect
philadelphia
properties,
to
use
it
for
responsible
purposes
and
to
potentially
move
it
into
affordable
housing
to
be
able
to
move
it
to
community
gardens.
D
It
could
go
out,
you
know
to
to
non-profits
that
could
use
it
for
purposes
other
than
just
a
massive.
I
don't
know
what
people
want
to
build
these
days,
but
it's
not
just
in
those
hands,
but
the
land
bank
paying
a
10
premium
that
had
never
been
done
before
when
it's
philadelphia.
Tax
dollars
in
place
is
a
serious
issue.
K
We
spoke
with
the
tax
lien
services
that
we
deal
with
grb,
linebar,
gargant
and
balera
sampson
and
the
city
law
department.
The
process
within
which
land
bank
purchases
properties
has
not
changed.
They
never
dealt
directly
with
our
office
with
discussing
which
properties
they
wanted
to
purchase.
They
dealt
directly
with
you,
don't
have
a
conversation
with.
A
D
I,
what
I
want
to
what
I
want
to
make
clear
is
that
one
of
the
things
that
is
at
issue
here
is
that
this
is
not
about
what
we
understand.
The
interpretation
to
be.
The
issue
is,
is
that
the
philadelphia
land
bank
is
a
major
partner.
It
is
an
investor
in
this
city
and
it
has
a
responsible
role
to
play
in
the
long-term
growth.
D
I
don't.
Actually
I
understand
that
you
want
to
clarify
that
with
me.
I
think
the
issue
is
is
that
you
need
to
clarify
it
with
the
land
bank,
with
a
sit-down
discussion
with
them
and
potentially
with
it
with
other
council
members
in
in
place,
but
this
needs
to
be
a
broader
discussion
with
them.
That
is
the
issue.
That's
here,
and
I
understand
that
you
may
explain
what
leinbarger
has
said
or
what
your
tax
lien
attorney
has
said,
or
what
anybody
else
has
said.
D
But
the
issue
fundamentally
is
not
so
much
whether
you
can.
You
know
explain
all
these
things,
but
that
conversation
needs
to
happen
with
them
and
because
there
are
significant
responsibilities,
regulations,
including
the
a
formal
memorandum
of
understanding
and
place
with
public
agencies
and
entities
that
this
requires
the
sheriff's
department
to
step
back
for
a
moment,
take
time
and
meet
with
them.
Could
you
agree
that
that's
that
may
be
a
process.
A
O
D
So
my
question
to
the
sheriff's
office
is
not
to
necessarily
explain
what
mr
rodriguez
is
going
to
testify
to
later.
But
can
you
agree
that
you
should
postpone
so
that
you
can
have
a
longer
fuller
conversation
with
the
land
bank,
with
its
partners
and
with
the
city
to
work
out?
Some
of
the
concerns
have
been
raised.
K
K
The
process
is
that
they
then
give
us
that
information,
so
limeburger,
city
law
and
grb
then
provide
us
with
the
information
of
what
properties
land
bank
is
purchasing,
and
we
then
announce
that
at
sale.
We
still
have
that
procedure
in
place
to
where
whatever
properties
land
bank
is
going
to
purchase
will
be
shown
on
the
website.
K
That
is
something
that,
because
the
discussion
initially
with
regard
to
land
bank
happened
with
city
law
and
the
tax
services
happened,
we
discussed
that
concern
with
them,
so
that
procedure
the
the
way
that
it
has
been
happening
since
the
institution
of
the
land
bank
and
purchasing
sheriff's
sales
property.
The
procedure
is
the
same.
Land
bank
did
not
does
not
come
directly
to
us
with
regard
to
what
properties
they
would
like
to
purchase.
J
And
that
let
me
respond.
The
answer
is
no,
because
land
bank
properties
don't
even
come
to
sure
sales
they're
not
responsible
for
10
percent,
nothing,
they
don't
have
to
put
down
the
deposit
of
anything.
That
process
comes
starts
before
those
properties
go
up
for
sale.
They
pull
them
off
the
list.
They
do
not
even
go
on
the
list,
because
the
land
bank
pulls
them
off
the
list
from
the
beginning.
They
don't
even
go
into
a
registration
part,
they
don't
go
into
it,
a
10,
nothing,
that's
been
the
process
in
person
and
that's.
K
D
K
D
P
N
O
O
I
just
want
to
make
it
clear
that
tax
sales
are
derived
by
our
revenue
department
and
our
law
department,
and
so
we
have
some
issues
around
connecting
the
dots
around
the
share
sale
that
are
fully
on
the
administrative
administration
side.
The
revenant
department
decides
what
properties
go
to
tax
sales
for
the
purposes
of
land
bank
being
able
to
bid
on
them.
So
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
separate
those
issues.
O
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
your
point
of
information
and
I
do
want
to
just
state
for
the
record
that
all
of
the
questions
and
concerns
that
you've
heard
council
member
kim
acknowledged
today
these
are
sort
of
not
just
her
pulling
of
those
concerns.
You
know
off
the
top
of
her
head
when
the
land
bank
gets
the
opportunity
to
testify
themselves.
You
will
get
to
hear
about
these
concerns
that
they've
clearly
laid
out
in
in
in
their
testimony
and
and
sheriff.
Q
D
M
D
D
J
D
D
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
Those
are
all
my
questions
manager.
You
know
I'll
just
say
that
I
I
would
urge
the
sheriff's
department
to
to
have
a
fuller
conversation
to
settle
to
settle
the
questions
with
a
number
of
different
groups.
These
are
not.
They
are
compelling
reasons
for
the
sheriff's
department
to
get
this
right.
D
F
This
is
that
we
are
attempting
to
train
persons,
because
what
we
feel
is
this
senior
citizens
who
are
most
likely
affected,
it's
a
really
difficult
ride
for
them
to
actually
get
on
the
train
or
get
on
scepter
and
go
somewhere
where
there's
600
people
and
actually
put
on
put
in
a
vote
or
bid
that
would
get
them
a
property.
So
we
would
like
to
help
with
the
training
for
those
so
that
they
too
could
get
on
and
get
on.
The
system
learn
the
system
and
make
a
winning
bid.
So
we
would.
B
F
J
But
we,
let
me
add
to
that
we
have
as
far
as
getting
it
out
to
the
people
we
are
in
the
process,
but
what
we've
done
so
far?
That
is
not
only
on
our
website.
It's
also
on
big
fat
asset
website,
and
if
you
do
not,
if
you
cannot
get
on
the
internet
and
if
you're,
not
technology
savvy,
which
a
lot
of
people
may
not
be,
there
is
a
manual
bit
form
that
is
basically
on
the
website
or
calling
our
office
or
picking
it
up
in
person
here
at
the
sheriff's
office.
J
On
the
fifth
floor,
we
have
those
available.
What
we
need
to
do
is
get
it
out
to
all
the
council,
people's
offices
so
that
you
will
have
it
available
now
what
we
plan
to
do
as
far
as
the
continued
outreach
as
as
we
get
this
out
in
this
community,
it's
basically
come
to
every
district
or
wherever
people
want
us
at
to
go
step
by
step
on
the
process
with
them.
H
B
We
are
currently
hampered
by
the
fact
that
we're
still
in
the
pandemic-
and
we
cannot
safely
have
these
masked
in-person
gatherings
to
do
that
kind
of
instruction
in
its
place.
We
have
done
massive
outreach
on
our
youtube
channel
on
the
sheriff's
side,
as
well
as
our
social
media
channels
through
media.
B
B
We
have
it
listed
in
multiple
places
on
our
website
where
they
can
download
it
and
print
it
out
for
them,
and
we
are
also
in
the
process
of
working
on
an
app
that
will
for
phones
that
will
also
help
people
get
easier
access
to
that.
In
addition
to
the
numerous
ways
that
bid
for
assets
has
provided
instruction.
M
On
their
website,
additionally,
if
I
may,
this
was
a
creation
of
an
emergency
situation,
it's
epidemic,
it's
a
pandemic.
So
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic,
we
had
to
create
a
way
to
carry
out
the
order,
and-
and
I
know
that
everyone
knows
that-
that's
why
we're
here.
I
understand
that,
but
I
want
us
to
keep
focused
on
that
when
we're
talking
about
or
have
some
of
the
questions
that
we
have.
I've
heard
mentioned
several
times
that
you
know
you
chose
to
do
this
and
create
this
new
vehicle.
M
The
vehicle
was
created
out
of
necessity,
not
because
someone
came
in
and
decided
that
they
just
wanted
to
do
virtual.
So
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
we
were
able
to
do
virtually
and
we
were
able
to
inform
people
virtually
and
I'm
talking
about
the
people
in
the
community
and
tutorial
processes,
etc.
M
But
there
are
other
things
that
we
are
hampered
from
doing
that
now
and
unfortunately,
until
we
improve
in
how
we
we're
dealing
with
one
another
in
the
pandemic,
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
do
it
other
than
to
supply
each
council
member
with
a
copy,
or
they
can
go
on
the
website
and
pull
out
the
manual
ones.
We
can
actually
deliver
them.
H
I
would
just
say:
you're
framing
you
know
having
to
move
to
this
process
as
an
emergency
because
we're
in
a
pandemic,
but
residents
being
residents
who
have
lost
their
jobs,
who
may
be
at
risk
of
losing
their
homes
who
do
not
have
the
access,
the
internet
access
and
maybe
sometimes
the
technological
skills
to
participate
in
this
process.
That's
also
an
emergency,
so
I
don't
understand-
and
frankly
you
know
I've
heard
the
conversation
about
what
that's
not
having
a
legitimate
reason.
H
M
M
One
thing:
there
isn't
a
property,
and
let
me
say
this
three
times
there
isn't
a
property:
there
isn't
a
property
that
came
up
for
tax
or
sheriff's
sale
that
got
in
that
condition
based
upon
the
pandemic.
All
of
these
sales
that
took
place
thus
far
and
that
are
scheduled
to
take
place
within
the
next
month
or
so
are
pre
pandemic.
Some
of
these
properties-
and
some
of
these
lots
are
as
a
result
of
six
years
of
litigation,
three
years
of
litigation
or
at
least
two
years
of
litigation.
So
again
I
don't.
M
I
understand
your
position,
accept
that
position.
That
is
to
be
the
truth,
with
the
exception
of
continuing
or
postponing
it,
because
these
are
not
the
individuals
that
are
having
their
their
properties
up
for
sheriff's
sales,
the
people
that
are
having
their
properties
up
for
share
sales.
Their
properties
were
up
for
sheriff's
sales
prior
to
the
pandemic
and
in
fact,
had
it
not
been
a
moratorium
or
a
closing
of
the
city
back
in
march.
M
H
M
H
Every
question
that
I
asked
you
all
about
how
we're
helping
people
to
understand
the
process
was
either
you're,
putting
things
online
or
you're,
going
to
you're
going
to
you're
going
to
you're
going
to.
We
can't
move
full
steam
ahead
on
taking
the
property
away
without
making
a
corresponding
investment
in
our
resident
ability
to
participate
in
this
system.
That's
equally
as
important
as
efficiency
and
as
money
that
we're
saving.
Q
F
F
I
think,
if
you
look
at
the
document
that
mr
el
sebastian
showed,
the
judge
shows
the
process
that
it
takes
and
before
I
leave,
I
also
want
to
say
this:
we've
had
we've
had
the
cares
act
which
also
helps
save
those
persons
who
are
doing
who
are
not
doing
well
and
it
prevents
their
homes
from
being
taken.
There
are
also
other
options
that
were
available.
F
We
had
the
banks,
I
actually
opt
into
the
program
when
we
foreclosed
sold
the
foreclosed
homes,
meaning
if
they
did
not
want
to
put
their
property
up
for
sale.
They
did
not
have
to
opt
into
the
sale.
So
we
put
things
in
place
to
help
those
homeowners
who
are
doing
bad
if
in
fact
they
can.
But
you
have
to
understand
this:
our
job
is
to
sell
the
property
once
the
judge
makes
that
decision
that
this
property
is
up
for
sale,
it's
up
to
us
to
sell
the
property.
B
H
Okay,
thank
you.
I
have
one
last
question.
We
read
in
some
of
the
testimony
that
it
seems
that
bid
for
assets
is
maybe
not
updating
the
the
list
of
properties
for
sale
in
as
in
as
timely
a
fashion
as
people
would
like.
So
I
think
we
read
in
the
testimony
from
save
your
home
in
philly
that
the
may
4th
properties
are
listed
on
the
site
as
preview
when
these
sales
have
actually
been
postponed
by
the
court
or
dismissed
outright,
which
has
caused
a
lot
of
stress
to
people.
K
So
as
soon
as
we
receive
the
information
from
the
attorneys
who
are
putting
the
properties
up
for
sale,
we
update
that
information
in
our
system
that
then
updates
two
or
three
times
a
day
on
bid
for
assets
website.
However,
if
we
do
not
receive
that
information
from
the
attorneys
in
a
timely
fashion,
then
it
doesn't
get
updated,
such
as
with
our
tax
sales.
J
You
know
what
our
counselor
we
would
look
at
when
they
need
to
be
able
to
update
it,
but
it's
basically
updated
when
we
get
it
from
it.
We
can't
update
it
unless
they're
attorneys,
because
the
attorneys
send
in
stays
postponements,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
that
information
gets
in,
but
if
they
don't
give
it
to
us,
we
can't
put
it
up
there
just
note
this.
J
J
So
what
we
don't
want
people
to
do
is
be
get
in
the
anxiety
about
it,
because
if
they
have
it
that
protection
is
there,
even
if
it's
on
the
website,
it
doesn't
matter
because
the
protection
is
still
there
if
we
get
it
after
the
sale,
that
protection
is
still
there
and
all
those
funds
will
be
funded
back
to
whoever
it.
None
of
these
protections
go
away,
they're
all
still
there.
So
if
they
have
it,
it's
there.
K
K
In
this
instance,
we
have
the
attorneys
themselves,
are
allowed
to
go
in
during
the
sale
to
stay
or
postpone
that
property,
and
we
have
dedicated
phone
lines
here.
We
also
have
a
dedicated
email
for
anyone
to
send
in
that
information
as
far
as
a
bankruptcy
or
anything
so
that
we
can
stay
or
postpone
a
sale
during
the
sale.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Councilmember
gautier,
the
chair
recognizes
council
member
david
o
for
questions,
but
before
he
comes
on,
let
me
just
state
for
the
record,
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
that
we
will
be
hearing
from
allegheny
county,
which
also
went
virtual
and
they
you
know,
chose
what
what
what
some
would
consider
to
be
a
user
friendly
and
much
more
friendly
to
the
people
of
allegheny
county,
but
you're
going
to
get
a
chance
to
hear
the
opposite
side
of
the
spectrum
as
well.
I
You
very
much
chairwoman,
as
tariq
el
shabazz
mentioned.
I
am
an
attorney.
I've
been
attorney
for
36
years.
I
haven't
practiced
for
the
last
nine
or
ten
years
while
I've
been
on
city
council,
but
I
will
say
that
my
knowledge
of
sheriff's
sales
unfortunately
comes
from
representing
you
know
the
average
citizen,
the
unfortunate
person
that
finds
themselves
in
a
situation
where
their
property
is
being
sold
and
back
in
those
days.
I
The
issue
was
that,
for
example,
they
owe
a
hundred
thousand
dollars,
I'm
just
making
up
the
number,
and
when
the
process
was
said
and
done,
someone
bid
twenty
thousand
dollars
and
got
their
property
and
they
still
owed
eighty
thousand
dollars.
The
question
was
always
how
come
nobody
was
there
to
bid
on
my
property
and
their
questions
were
always
around.
The
fact
is
this
fixed
is
something
going
on.
Is
there
corruption?
I
M
Thank
you
councilman,
oh
for
that,
those
those
questions.
First,
there
is
absolutely
more
participation.
By
going
virtual,
yesterday's
tax
sale
drew
four
thousand
bids.
Four
thousand
two
hundred
and
I'm
sorry
it's
4216
bidders.
So
people
had
the
opportunity
to
bid
from
home
from
work
from
different
places.
It
actually
takes
away.
I
would
submit
to
you
the
intimidation
that
you
may
feel
sometimes
by
some
people
in
a
crowded
room.
M
I
also
would
answer
an
answer
to
the
question,
because
the
first
comment
was
about
the
100
000
home
and
the
20
000
purchase
price.
Well,
the
opposite,
it
seems
to
be
happening
here.
What
seems
to
be
happening
here
is
that
you
you're
getting
people
into
bidding
contests
where
the
the
highest
bidder
is
going.
M
If
the
person
has
eighty
thousand
dollars
by
by
virtue
and
and
sixty
thousand
is
sold,
they
would
have
a
twenty
thousand
dollar
debt
if
it's
sold
for
twenty
sixty
thousand
dollars.
But
that's
not
anything
that
that
we
can
do
with
respect
to
that.
That
would
that
can't
be
done
in
a
an
actual
live
sale,
but
it
appears
right
now
and
that's
why
we
want
to
look
at
the
matrix
and
that's
why
it's
important
to
see
what
what's
going
on
here,
because
we're
going
to
see.
M
We
may
see
some
problems,
but
we're
going
to
see
some
things
that
are
progressive
as
well,
and
what
we're
seeing
so
far
and
just
four
four
virtual
sales
we're
seeing
bids
of
four
thousand
dollars.
Four
four
thousand
people,
four
thousand
bids
I
should
say
we're
seeing
are
we
talking
numbers
now
we're
seeing
generally
approximately
seven
thousand
dollars?
M
Seven,
I'm
sorry
did
I
say:
seven
thousand
seven
million
seven
million
dollars
in
those
sales
and
there's
not
just
because
prices
are
higher
because
they
do
bid
and
they
go
up
higher,
but
we're
able
to
bid
they're
able
to
bid
on
multiple
properties
at
one
time.
In
other
words,
you
put
all
the
properties
up
there
and
so
you're
able
to
be
without.
If
you
go
to
the
bathroom,
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
it.
M
You
can
come
back
and
keep
bidding
on
your
particular
property,
whereas
at
the
live
auction,
if
you
left
your
seat
and
went
to
the
bathroom
or
if
you
came
late,
something
held
you
up
in
traffic
or
what
have
you
and
you
would
have
missed
your
property?
You
don't
have
that
now.
Oh
you
had
lunch
time.
You've
been
on
your
property
at
lunch,
while
you're
working
all
right.
What
people
have
been
doing
is
waiting
to.
Well,
I'm
sorry,
I.
I
B
I
M
J
Yeah
in
your
package
on
exhibit
e.
Yes,
you
have
what
you
call
the
sure
fees
and
the
big
c
tells
you
where
those
fees
come
from.
The
following
fees
are
charged
on
all
cases
except
the
city
law
department,
delinquent
tax
sales,
the
only
thing
insurance,
kids
is
the
rip
processing
fee,
and
then
you
have
a
conduct
fee
of
300..
J
Those
funds
are
paid
to
the
city
of
philadelphia.
The
following
fee
is
charged
on
every
sold
property
and
is
paid
to
the
city
of
philadelphia.
It's
called
poundage,
which
is
a
calculated
as
eight
percent
on
the
first
five
thousand
of
the
winning
bid
and
2
on
the
remaining
amount
of
the
winning
bid
above
5
000,
and
so
those
also
go
to
the
city.
We
conduct
the
sales
for
the
city.
F
I
Right:
okay,
the
the
next
thing
I'm
going
to
say
is
this.
I
I
understood
from
this
conversation.
I
appreciate
that
people
on
here,
like
councilman
quinoa
sanchez,
far
more
knowledgeable
about
land
banks
and
all
its
details,
but
what
I'm
kind
of
getting
after
all
of
this
is
land
banks
are
exempt
from
this
process.
They
don't
put
deposits
they're,
not
charge
fees,
their
properties
are
pulled
off
the
list.
I
I
I
I
will
say,
however,
because
I'm
going
to
cast
some
blame
here
that
ever
since
I
got
on
city
council,
we
have
been
dealing
with
property
assessments
with
the
office
of
property
assessment
and
council
itself
did
a
independent
audit,
and
that
came
back
that
the
methodology
in
this
city
is
below
industry
standard
and
I
did
introduce
a
bill,
for
example,
and
it's
been
a
concern
to
all
of
my
colleagues-
we've
all
wrestled
with
this
problem.
I
did
a
bill
that
basically
would
reject
the
taxes,
the
over
overly
high
taxes
based
on
improper
assessments.
I
I
It
has
been
a
challenge
for
our
city
council
that,
if
we're
going
to
deal
with
the
root
of
gentrification
in
this
city,
it
has
a
lot
to
do
with
overly
high
improper,
in
my
opinion,
illegal
taxes
on
people's
property,
mostly
the
vulnerable.
With
that
council
chair,
I
will
stop
my
questions.
Thank
you.
O
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
the
sheriff.
I
want
to
state
for
the
record
why
I
supported
this
resolution
and
this
hearing,
and
I
want
to
thank
the
sheriff
for
recognizing
some
of
the
reasons
why
we're
here
in
this
public
descent
discussion.
First
of
all,
it
is
council's
job
to
call
for
a
public
discussion
on
issues
that
it
has
concerns
and,
prior
to
this
particular
sheriff's
office,
we
administrator
sheriff
belial.
O
Historically,
council
has
had
a
tenseful
conversation
with
anybody,
who's
been
in
the
sheriff's
office
about
process
procedures,
equity
and
access
right.
So
this
is
a
structural
problem
that
has
been
ongoing
and
city
council
has
done
tremendous
work.
I
know
the
chairwoman
has
even
prior
to
getting
elected
around.
We
want
to
keep
people
in
their
homes.
The
best
homeless
prevention
strategy
is
keeping
people
in
their
homes,
and
I
know
the
sheriff
share
that
goal.
O
To
the
point
that
I
brought
up
around
the
issue
of
the
tax
sales,
the
department
of
revenue
and
law
department's
role
in
determining
that
as
part
of
their
collections
strategy,
the
sale
of
tax
delinquency
should
go
through
this
process
and
that
I
I
would
submit
to
the
madam
chair
that
we
really
need
to
have
law
and
revenue.
Tell
us
why
they
feel
that
as
we're
still
in
this
recovery
space.
They
have
to
do
this.
O
But
one
of
the
points
that
you
know
that
I
think
is
hugely
important,
and
I
appreciate
the
fact
that
you
know
you
have
to
start
this
up
again.
Virtual
sales
to
me,
even
in
this
post
covered
world
are
not
going
to
lead
us
to
equitable
process
and
access,
and
so
I
just
want
to
go
on
the
record
that
I
will
wait
to
the
three-month
pilot.
Thank
you
again
sheriff
for
acknowledging
that
this
is
going
to
be
a
pilot
and
that
you
know
you're
entitled
as
an
independent
elected
person
to
go
through
the
process.
O
One
is
that,
while
you
want
efficiency
around
payment
and
deposits
and
who
bids
if
by
law,
you
are
permitted
to
create
a
different
tier
system
for
llcs
that
have
become
extremely
problematic
in
this
gentrification
and
flipping
process
that
you
do
so.
We
want
individuals
to
have
access
to
this
sale,
but
a
ten
thousand
dollar
deposit,
a
15,
15
day
settlement
I
subscribe
to.
You-
is
not
going
to
help
in
the
process.
It
may
be
help
you
in
an
efficient
process,
but
I
don't
think
it
really
adds
to
equity
as
it
relates
to
that.
O
So,
if
legally,
you
can
do
that,
I'm
going
to
strongly
encourage
you
to
consider
creating
a
two-tier
system
for
llc's
and
corporations
versus
that
the
mortgage
conversation
is
a
broader
one
around,
because
we
don't
have
control
over
mortgages
and
city
council.
But
you
know
we
really
do
need
to
have
a
conversation
even
pre-pandemic.
O
So
my
question
is:
please
walk
me
through
the
conversation
with
the
law
department
to
get
us
to
the
sale.
What
were
the
recommendations
of
the
city
solicitor
that
you
shared
with
this
body
that
got
us
here
and
what
we
in
council
can
do
to
get
to
a
more
equitable,
transparent
space?
If
your
hands
are
tied,
what
do
we
need
to
do
because
people
are
against
share
sales
they're
against
sales
right
now
in
this
recovery?
So
what
is
it
that
what
was
the
discussion
with
law?
And
then,
where
are
your
hands
tied
that
legislatively?
R
M
O
Question
what
the
list
that
they
gave
you
were:
where
are
you
able
to
put
conditions
on
the
list
that
they
gave
you
for
tax
sales?
Could
you
could
you
do
you?
Have
the
authority
to
pull
owner
occupies?
What
authority
do
you
have
with
that
list,
or
you
must
take
everything
that
the
judgment
gives
you?
Let
me.
J
Let
me
do
it:
yes,
the
conversation
between
the
undersheriff
and
the
law
department
and
tax
lien
sales
was
back
and
forth
for
months
as
to
making
sure
that
they
they
were
supposed
to
be
making
sure
that
they
were
not
home
owner
occupied,
and
so
the
list
in
that
area
went
extremely.
They
pulled
about
a
hundred
and
something
off
there,
so
they
were
going
back
and
forth
doing
this
pandemic
to
try
to
make
sure
that
none
of
them
was
occupied.
O
J
Can
you
do
anything
to
help
our
conversation
is
with
the
law
department?
Look,
this
is
property
the
community's
taking
care
of
it.
It's
a
garden.
What
can
you
do
to
make
sure
you
know
the
community
is
dealing
with
it?
They
decide
to
pull
it
off
of
there.
We
can
have
that
conversation,
but
they
got
to
make
that
decision.
O
So
did
so
cuz.
I
know
we
submitted
a
list
of
our
concerns
around
the
us
bank
links
and
I
think
some
of
the
folks
who
are
going
to
testify
are
going
to
speak
to
these
thousands
of
u.s
bank
leans
that
we're
not
allowed
to
bid
on
with
the
land
bank
so
I'll
leave
that
discussion
for
when
those
folks
come
out
come
on.
O
Is
there
an
articulated
agreement
between
you
and
the
law
department
that
owner
occupied
folks,
because
all
of
those
folks
would
be
eligible
for
uber,
which
is
legislative
work?
The
council
did?
Is
there
an
articulate
agreement
that
they
would
be
put
on
and
who's
going
to
be
held
accountable
to
that.
J
J
So
we
can
have
that
discussion
and
maybe
we
will.
We
will
pass
that
over
to
a
conversation
to
get
a
mou,
because
I
found
out
in
this
office
one
day,
looking
through
a
bunch
of
boxes
that
there's
a
bunch
of
mlus
around
here
and
just
being
a
newly
elected
person.
There's
no
playbook,
but
we
can
probably
have
that
conversation
to
develop.
That
mou
with
the
law
department.
O
Well,
I
mean
I
encourage
you
to
explore
that,
but
I
encourage
council
and
again
this
would
have
to
come
through
the
law
of
law
and
government
and
our
chairwoman
I
would.
I
would
suggest
that
we
really,
as
a
legislative
body,
really
need
to
look
at.
How
do
we
legislate
some
of
that
framework,
madam
chairwoman,
because
this
is
being
left
up
to
too
much
chance
too
many
mousse,
as
opposed
to
what
is
going
to
be
the
policy
of
how
we
protect
people.
O
Council
has
spent
the
last
decade
plus
putting
together
measures
to
protect
people
and
their
homes,
and
what
we
don't
want
is
conflicting
goals
around
tax
collections
to
lead
us
to
a
situation
where
people
are
checking
off
the
box
and
not
connecting
the
dots.
There
should
be
very
few
people
who
are
not
eligible
for
relief
programs
that
this
council
has
put
forward.
But
what
you're
telling
me
is
that,
ultimately,
the
revenue
department
and
the
law
department
still
have
the
discretion
right
to
not
ensure
that
people
get
on
uber
and
other
things.
O
That's
something
that
legislatively
we're
going.
You
can
do
your
mou,
but
we're
going
to
have
to
look
at.
Madame
chair
and
I'll
I'll
reserve,
some
of
my
the
rest
of
the
questions
with
some
of
the
other
folks
that
will
come
that
have
come
forward.
I
apprec
again,
we
are
doing
our
jobs
and
having
a
public
discussion
again.
I
appreciate
that
both
the
chairwoman
and
the
sheriff
have
worked
through
some
of
the
major
issues
around
communication.
How
do
we
strengthen
it?
How
do
we
make
sure
we're
all
we're
one
government?
O
So
when
people
out
there
they
don't?
You
know
this
is
not
the
administration
council,
the
sheriff's
office.
It's
us
right,
we're
all
elected,
and
it's
an
us,
and
sometimes
these
public
conversations
need
to
happen
to
us
to
get
kind
of
on
the
same
page
around
this
stuff.
But
you
know
many
of
us
believe
that
this
sheriff
process
and
the
discretion
both
by
judges,
the
mortgage
people,
who
have
a
lot
of
money
and
influence.
O
You
know
all
of
those
folks
are
not
always
in
the
best
interest
of
the
consumer
and
our
residents,
and
that
is
our
job
to
figure
out
what
we
need
to
do.
So
I
hope
these
hearings
lead
to
some
legislative
fixes
around.
How
do
we
ensure
some
of
this
process,
madam
chair,
and
I'm
ready
and
willing
to
work
with
all
of
you
to
get
to
that
place?
Thank
you.
Thank.
H
Madam
chair
and
thank
you
so
much
madam
sheriff,
I
do
have
a
series
of
questions,
but
I
just
want
to
frame
it
first
that
I
am,
I
do
have
a
problem
with
sheriff
sales
and
where,
as
I
talk
about
this,
please
do
not
take
my
passion
and
anger
and
I'm
talking
about
more
process
issues.
I
said
before
in
signing
on
to
on
this
hearing,
I
said
that
I
would
try
to
go
through
the
process
for
clarity,
so
my
questions
are
coming
based
on
the
process
that
there
was
a
property.
H
H
So
when
we
have
the
opportunity,
I
can
ask
questions
more
about
the
process
and
hopefully
you'll
be
supportive
to
some
of
the
public
folks
that
are
listening,
and
I
think
I
consider
myself
and
my
staff
to
be
pretty
tech,
savvy
and
computer
literate
in
navigating
this
process.
So
I'm
going
to
start
with
the
process.
Questions
around
bid
for
access.
O
H
K
K
K
For
the
mortgage
foreclosure
sale,
we
had
nine
winning
bidders.
Four
of
them
were
from
philadelphia
for
the
april
9th
sale.
We
had
62
winners
and
52
of
them
were
from
philadelphia
for
the
april
14
sale.
We
had
33
winners
and
18
of
them
were
philadelphians,
however,
overall
29
of
them
were
pennsylvanians
and
what
the
trend
that
we're
seeing
is
those
same
bidders
that
would
attend
our
in-person
sales
and
purchase
properties
as
the
same
bidders
that
are
attending
these
virtual
sales
and
purchasing
property
are
some
of.
H
F
Are
we
I'm
sorry?
Thank
you,
council
person.
Thank
you
for
that
question.
We
did
not
ask,
did
not
find
out
if
that
was
the
bid
for
all
of
the
counties.
However,
I
did
speak
to
montgomery
county
and
I
do
not
believe
they
had
it
in
montgomery
county.
However,
we
did
given
the
size
and
the
complexity
of
the
sale
that
we
have
here,
sales
that
we
have
here.
We
did
not
think
it
was
unreasonable.
H
J
H
H
H
So
can
so,
if
we
do
the
math
with
me
quickly,
if
we
had
a
thousand
participants
who
funded
a
deposit
in
order
to
bid
approximately
how
much
did
bid
for
assets
collect
in
the
deposits
per
storefront
administrative
35
fee
and
was
the
fee
charged
to
the
bidders
a
typical
pre
with
that
same
fee
pre-covet
this
35
feet?
Was
it
something
that
they
would
have
done
before
covet.
J
F
H
So
it
seems
like
bid
for
assets
will
be
collecting
large
revenues
by
imposing
fees
on
bidders
who
may
not
have
any
winnings,
because
the
35
is
non-refundable.
Am
I
correct,
correct?
Okay?
So
when
you
execute
a
disagreement
between
bid
for
access,
did
you
ask
in
about
this
big
deposit
per
storefront
financial
fee
and
was
it?
Is
it
standard
in
terms
of
all
agreements
that
they
have
participated
in
in
the
past?.
H
Up
to
us,
hey
I'm
been
having
internet
connectivity
issues
all
day.
It
should
be
ending
in
a
few
minutes,
because
school
should
be
over
so
bear
with
me.
I
lost
my
point.
Okay,
so
when
we,
when
executing
the
agreement
before
with
between
bid
for
assets,
did
you
ask
if
the
bid
deposit
per
storefront
financial
fee
was
a
standard
term
in
all
agreements
made
with
cities
that
partnered,
with
bid
for
access.
F
We
did
not,
and
what
we
did
when
we
spoke
to
bid
for
assets,
was
taught
to
bid
for
assets
not
about
other
cities,
but
how
they
could
make
their
virtual
sales
mirror
our
live
sales.
So
that
was
not
something
that
we
discussed:
the
fees
that
they
charge
to
other
cities.
We
did
not
discuss
that
with
them.
Okay,.
J
H
H
I
came
and
saw
something
else,
so
I
went
back
and
put
more
money
to
wire
to
be
able
to
participate,
participate
in
the
bid,
but
that
wasn't
clear
up
front
when
I
did
the
first
initial
deposit,
I
just
I'm
the
reason
I'm
kind
of
laying
this
out
is
because
you
know
some
of
this
conversation
is
making.
It
seem
like
it's
so
much
easier
for
working
people.
H
I
was
actually
on
a
council
hearing
when
I
discovered
that
I
did
not
have
enough
money
and
had
to
go
back
to
the
bank
to
complete
a
money
wire
to
in
order
to
participate
in
this
process
as
a
lay
person.
So
that's
why
I
said
I
just
want
to
go
through
the
process
just
for
clarity
and
that's
kind
of
why
I'm
going
through
it
in
this
way,
because
I'm
going
through
personal
experience
that
I
actually
went
through
the
whole
process.
B
H
H
H
F
H
F
We
do
not,
and
part
of
the
problem
is
because
we
have
no
idea
what
properties
we're
going
to
get
it's
sort
of
a
function
of
the
homes
that
we
get
and
where
they
are
and
what
they
look
like
at
the
time.
So
it's
pretty
difficult
to
say
that
the
only
thing
that
I
think
our
office
can
say
is
that,
in
terms
of
the
percentage
actually
sold,
that
would
increase,
but
the
percentage
of
price
per
property
would
be
very
difficult.
F
There
are
no
counties
comparable
to
philadelphia
and
pennsylvania.
However,
we
did
look
at
the
surrounding
counties
and
what
we
found
was
this
several
things:
one
bid
for
assets
was
familiar
with
our
internal
accounting
system,
so
they
were
somewhat
familiar
with
the
nomenclature
that
we
used
in
our
sales.
They
had
been
exposed
to
it.
They
were
able
to
also
mirror
what
we
wanted.
F
S
H
J
Well,
let
me
let
me
start
with
answering
them.
We
looked
at
the
in-person
sales
and
it
would
have
been
the
same
thing
as
a
virtual
cell
that
people
come
in
and
buy
well
in
llc's
or
whether
somebody
drives
in
from
another
city
or
whether
they
send
in
a
surrogate
is
the
same
amount.
That
is
the
same
participation
in
that
area
as
far
as
in-person
sales
and
I'll,
let
melissa
take
it
from
me.
K
Yeah
I've
been
here
for
about
seven
years
and
when
I
first
started,
the
properties
were
not
going
for
high
prices
at
the
tax
sales.
However,
over
the
past
few
years
those
prices
have
drastically
increased
as
to
how
much
you
would
need
in
order
to
purchase
a
property
from
sheriff's
down.
So
the
amounts
that
we're
seeing
now
are
not
much
different
from
the
in-person
sale,
because
we
had
a
lot
of
people
who
would
come
down
from
new
york.
J
But
if
you
can,
if
there's
a
legislative
way
that
you
can
make
that
happen,
we
don't
have
any
problem
with
that.
We
are
just
what
we're
trying
to
do,
and
this
is.
I
have
my
discretion.
If
you
look
at
the
bill
of
sales
on
on
these
websites,
we
are
looking
at
strategies
on
how
people
are
trying
to
purchase
these
properties.
M
Sets
and
if
and
if
I
may,
councilwoman
parker
council
member
parker,
asked
and
received
a
memorandum
from
the
city
solicitor
that
I
think
was
excellent,
that
outlined
limiting
out-of-state
participation
at
the
sheriff's
sales.
In
other
words,
how
can
we
do
that
and
it
it
actually
mirrored
the
law
that
we
found
and
it's
just
there's
no
federal
state
or
local
law.
M
That
will
allow
us
to
do
that.
We
welcome
that.
We
welcome
that.
I
you
know
I
I
just
haven't
found
it.
When
I
worked
with
curtis
the
undersheriff
together,
we
haven't
found
it
individually.
We
haven't
found
it
when
we
work
with
the
chief
of
staff.
We
still
haven't
found
it,
but
if
someone
has
a
way
to
do
it,
as
the
sheriff
said,
we
welcome
that.
H
You
councilmember,
I'm
close.
I
just
want
to
close
up
with
this.
One
of
the
things
to
that
about
eliminating
barriers
is
definitely
talk
about
those
administrative
fees
that
that
are
imposed
on
folks,
not
winning
the
bids
similar
to
that
in
other
jurisdictions.
That
bid
for
assets
work
on,
and
I
also
said
you
mentioned
that
you
anticipated
higher
prices
and
more
sales
with
the
online
prices.
H
A
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you
so
much,
madam
chair
and
again,
thank
you
for
your
work
on
this
hearing
and
on
this
topic,
which
is
vitally
important
to
our
ability
to
preserve
homeownership
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
particularly
for
our
long
time
residents.
A
number
of
the
questions
I
had
have
already
been
asked,
so
I
want
to
specifically
focus
on
the
post-sale
report
that
we
receive
the
the
philadelphia
county
sheriff
april
6,
2021,
post
sale.
E
J
You
have
a
spreadsheet
on
that
spreadsheet.
It
has
the
mortgage
foreclosure,
which
was
april,
the
6
21
it
has
the
book
and
writ
which
is
the
numbers
that
we
go
by
it.
Has
the
property
address,
it
has
the
reserve
price.
The
observed
price
is
the
price
that
the
mortgage
companies
attorneys,
set
with
all
their
fees
or
all
their
needs.
J
N
J
So
when
you
go
down-
and
so
this
is
the
information
that
we
are
pulling
off
and
and
I
hear
what
you're
saying
if
we
need
to
pull
off
more,
we
do
have
other
things
that
we
can
pull
off
from
dealing
with
our
matrix
or
what
we'll
be
looking
at.
And
so,
when
you
go
down
to
the
the
lineberger
tax
meeting
sales,
which
was
april,
the
9th
21st,
you
have
the
same
thing.
J
The
property
address
the
minimum
bid,
which
is
set
by
the
city
law
department,
the
winning
bid
amount
and
who's
buying
and
whether
their
llc,
their
physical
address,
because
I
stated
in
this
llc's
now
have
to
have
a
physical
address,
name
and
phone
number
contact
information
and
by
the
way
we
do
vet
that
and
because
we're
a
law
enforcement
agency.
You
know
and
with
just
dealing
with
these
sales,
but
we
are
law
enforcement
agencies.
J
We
have
other
avenues
that
we
can
deeply
vet
that
information,
because
it's
in
our
preview
that
we
can
do
and
it
tells
you
what
city
and
state
and
zip
code
they
were
from
that
were
the
winning
bidders
and
then
so
that
has
that
on.
I
think
you've
got
about
one
two,
three
four
pages:
four
pages
of
all
that
information:
five
pages.
I
think
the
chairwoman
council
chairwoman
asked
us
for
that
and
a
list
of
things
that
we
needed
to
send
over
and
we
sent
that
over
to
you.
E
Yes,
ma'am,
and
I
think
it's
important,
though,
for
our
understanding,
because
you
know
this
may
come
to
us.
You
know
this
process
is
easy
right
because
we
do
this
every
day,
but
I
think
it's
important
for
the
record
and
for
the
listening
public
and
for
philadelphians,
who
are
tuning
into
this
hearing
currently
and
those
that
will
watch
later
to
have
some
of
this
information
verbally
put
on
the
record
by
your
office.
E
So
knowing
the
real
estate
environment
that
we
are
dealing
with,
and
I
think
melissa
simpson
from
your
office
talked
about
how,
when
she
started
in
the
office
seven
years
ago,
that
the
properties
were
not
going
for
as
much
as
they
are
going
for.
Now
so
you
understand
the
real
estate
frenzy
that
we
are
dealing
with,
so
madam
sheriff
is
there
any
way
for
you
to
halt
share
sales,
I
mean
to
request
to
halt
share
sales
until
we
were
able
to
work
through
some
of
the
nuances
of
this
with
you.
J
E
J
E
M
M
M
Two,
the
debtor
or
the
mortgagor,
having
a
legal
order
that
allows
them
to
collect,
to
pay
off
a
debt
and
having
us
asked
to
continue
or
to
postpone
that
without
a
legal
reason
exposes
the
sheriff
to
being
sued
and
subsequently
the
city
to
be
ensued,
because
the
only
thing
that
we're
trying
to
do
is
in
their
eyes
is
delaying
the
process
without
a
legal,
and
I
don't
want
to
say
legitimate.
Definitely
is
the
reason
that's
legitimate,
but
a
legal
reason.
M
So
it
puts
us
in
a
position
that
we
can
what
we
will
do
and
what
the
sheriff
has
indicated.
That
she's
willing
to
do
is
to
continue
what
we're
doing
now,
the
dialogue
and
working
together
to
work
through
the
concerns
and
explain
the
concerns
and
even
to
adapt
the
virtual
sales,
if,
in
fact,
it
is
shown
through
the
matrix
and
do
what
we're
understanding
and
through
the
community
that
it's
causing
a
an
issue.
That
is
unfair
and
that
can
be
direct
and
be
corrected.
We're
willing
to
do
that.
M
E
E
I
do
think
you
know
we
should
be
able
to
get
a
communication
from
our
sheriff
directly
to
the
courts
posing
and
asking
the
question
as
you
see,
or
as
you
will
hear
in
the
testimony
that
has
been
offered
in
this
hearing
from
all
the
testimony
we
received
and
that
I've
read
through.
There
are
significant
concerns
from
all
aspects
of
not
only
city
government
but
folks
that
interface
with
us
to
move
property
sales
in
and
around
our
city
and
that's
down
to
the
community
gardens
the
land
bank.
E
You
know
all
different
organizations
have
talked
about
how
challenging
this
new
process
is
and
their
lack
of
clarity
around
the
process
and
not
being
included
in
the
process
at
the
onset.
So
I
do
respectfully
disagree
with
that
interpretation,
particularly
because
I
was
a
legislative
aide
here
in
city
council
in
this
body,
when
this
body
worked
on
the
mortgage
foreclosure
prevention
program
with
council
member
jones.
E
Yes,
madam
sheriff,
you
can
send
a
communication
at
least
to
ask
until
we
were
able
to
work
through
some
of
the
challenges
that
have
been
notated
in
the
testimony
that
we
have
received
and
that
we
will
hear-
and
you
will
hear
this
afternoon
in
the
remainder
of
this
hearing.
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair,
for
your
latitude
and
thank
you,
madam
sheriff,
and
your
team.
A
So
much
once
one
second,
thank
you,
council,
member
gilmore
richardson
for
your
testimony.
You
know.
Not
only
did
you
just
formally
ask
on
the
record
here,
but
you
will
remember
that
we
as
a
council,
as
I
opened
up
this
hearing,
noting
for
the
record
that
we
did
ask
for
the
sheriff
to
use
the
powers
that
are
bestowed
upon
her
to
simply
ask
the
courts
whether
or
not
we
could
have
a
stay
not
permanently,
but
just
for
two
months,
so
that
all
of
the
testimony
that
has
been
provided.
A
If,
in
fact,
she
did
make
a
request
of
the
courts,
so
I
just
wanted
to
get
that
on
the
record.
Councilmember
gilmore
richardson
and
thank
you
and
council
woman
brooks
again
for
both
of
your
testimony
and
also
want
to
note
that
there
are
representatives
from
organizations
based
in
ohio
who
have
been
at
this
for
some
time
and
they
will
be
able
to
provide
testimony
as
to
some
of
the
unintended
consequences
that
have
occurred
in
ohio
as
a
result
of
the
move
to
the
virtual
platform.
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
appreciate
it
and
you
know
I
I
guess
I
would
just
like
to
start
by
saying
thank
you
to
the
sheriff
and
and
the
t
and
the
sheriff's
team
for
being
here
today
for
this
important
conversation
and
just
thinking
about
the
sheriff's
words
when
the
sheriff
talked
about
being
new,
I
can
definitely
believe
I
think
we
were
sworn
in
together.
G
Some
of
those
things
might
not
be
true,
but
I
think
that's
where
a
lot
of
the
energy
is
coming
from
here
today
again,
I
know
that
there
are
a
lot
of
members
of
council
who
support
you
and
the
work
that
you're
trying
to
do,
but
I
think
that
we
we're
at
a
point
right
now
with
this
particular
issue,
where
we
just
don't
agree.
I
I
do
agree
with
council
member
gilmore
richardson
in
her
line
of
questioning
recently.
G
I
do
think
it
would
have
been
a
good
faith
measure
just
to
put
the
request
out,
even
if
it
was
just
denied
just
to
show
that
we
are
trying
our
best
as
government,
because
often
the
average
everyday
constituent
they
don't
see
us
as
any
separate
entities,
we're
all
government
to
them
and
especially
poor
people
and
people
of
color
in
this
city.
They
just
feel
like
government
is
against
them.
G
You
know,
as
soon
as
these
decisions
were
made,
I'm
sure
that
my
colleagues
can
relate
to
people
accusing
us
of
doing
things
and
being
a
part
of
a
decision
that
we
essentially
had
nothing
to
do
with.
So
we're
all
in
a
tough
position.
Right
now,
with
what's
going
on-
and
you
know
I
I
do
most
of
my
questions
were
answered,
but
I
do
want
to
just
ask
one
or
two
questions.
G
My
first
question
will
go
back
to
the
question
about
the
company
in
the
10,
so
I'm
wondering
if
they
did
not
get
that
10
based
on
the
way
the
process
is
set
up.
Who
would
that
money
go
to?
Is
that
money
that's
coming
out
of
the
pockets
of
the
homeowners,
because
I
know
you
talked
about
the
fact
that
when
there's
funds
that
are
left
over
after
all,
pass-through
balances
are
paid,
those
dollars
would
normally
go
to
the
purple
on
the
home.
J
G
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
clarity.
On
that
another
question
I
know
earlier
it
was.
We
talked
about
some
of
the
legal
side.
Can
you
explain
why
we
essentially
have
this
legal
pressure
to
to
move
forward
when
the
federal
government
has
a
foreclosure
mormonatorium
that
is
in
existence
until
june
30th?
Why?
G
Why
are
we
under
this
pressure
when
we
have
these
momentums
already
in
existence
and
again
I
know
that
you're
saying
that
legally,
you
feel
like
we
don't
have
any
justification
to
be
able
to
ask
for
some
level
of
extension,
I'm
wondering
why
is
the
pandemic
that
you
talked
about
some
of
the
other
conditions
as
well
as
mormontoriums
and
laws
that
already
exist?
Why?
Why
is
none
of
that
or
anything
else?
G
That's
been
communicated
today,
a
good
enough
reason
to
ask
for
an
extension
and
then,
on
top
of
that
I'll
just
go
ahead
and
throw
my
last
question
in
there
now
just
for
the
purpose
of
timing.
What
would
you,
what
would
it
take
for
us
to
legally
put
ourselves
in
a
position
to
ask
for
an
extension,
I'm
assuming
that
everybody?
That's
a
part
of
the
conversation
on
your
side
is
just
neutral
and
you
guys
feel
like
from
a
legal
perspective.
You
know
your
hands
are
tied.
G
M
You're
asking
me
basically
what
is
it
that
I
feel
that
will
allow
the
court
to
give
us
a
continuance
or
a
stay
or
a
postponement
for
two
months
from
that
legal
order
that
we
have
to
fulfill
our
legal
obligation
and
and
now
you're
asking
me
to
read
the
court's
mind.
I
can't.
But
what
I
do
know
is
this.
M
I
can't
tell
legislators
how
to
legislate,
but
I
I
submit
that
unless
you're
practicing
law
or
practicing
lawyer
to
say
to
one
person
so
that
the
public
can
hear
it
that
all
it
takes
is
for
you
just
to
ask
the
question
and-
and
some
miracle
is
going
to
happen-
that
the
same
judge
and
judges
that
we
have
been
dealing
with
in
this
office
for
since
the
pandemic,
with
respect
to
the
sheriff's
cell
is
all
of
a
sudden
gonna
say:
okay,
don't
do
it?
That's
not
reality.
M
We're
dealing
in
the
reality
of
facts,
not
fear
facts.
So
the
reality
of
facts
is
if
you
want
to
get
respect
from
the
court
and
carry
out
your
ethical
ethical
obligation.
Therefore,
ethically
every
attorney
can't
go
before
court
and
ask
the
court
to
do
something
that
they
could
that
the
attorney
knows
the
court
can't
do,
and
that's
ethically
you
don't
do
that
so
man.
A
G
Thank
you,
madam
claire.
I
I
definitely
appreciate
it
and
I
again
you
know
I
I
did
try
to
frame
this
by
by
first
communicating
my
support
for
the
sheriff,
because
I
think
the
tone
of
the
conversation
is
going
in
a
direction
that
it
really
like
we're.
Not
that's
not
it
right
like
we
just
we
just
have
different
opinions
and
we're
trying
to
get
clarity
on
the
issue.
So
I'm
not
I'm
not
questioning
anybody's
legal
opinion
or
legal
experience
or
anything
like
that.
You
guys,
I
said
that
I
feel
like
listening
to.
G
What's
going
on,
you
guys
feel
like
your
hands
are
tied,
so
I'm
asking
a
question.
My
question
is:
is
what
would
make
you
feel
comfortable
like
you're
telling
us,
like
I'm
not
comfortable
doing
it,
because
the
circumstances
that
we're
in
right
now
doesn't
present
a
situation
where
you're
saying
that
we
should
be
making
a
legal
request.
So
I'm
asking
you
to
create
a
hypothetical
scenario
where
you
will
feel
comfortable.
What
would
need
to
take
place?
What
needs
to
to
get
done?
G
I'm
not
saying
I
I
understand
you
can't
tell
us
how
to
legislate,
and
I'm
also
not
telling
you
how
to
do
your
job.
I'm
asking
you
what
would
make
you
feel
comfortable
adhering
to
the
requests
that
at
least
10
or
11
12
council
members
had
signed
up
for
plus,
probably
another
three
hours
of
testimony
right.
So
we're
just
saying
like
help
us
you're
saying
we're
not
there
yet
you're
seeing
nobody
has
said
anything
to
make.
You
change
your
mind.
So
I'm
asking
you
to
help
us
understand
what
would
change
your
mind.
M
M
M
It
can't
be
because
you
suspect
that
someone
is
going
to
come
from
california
and
buy
up
everything,
because
we
have
the
minimum
data
that
we
have
right
now
shows
that
that
ain't-
that's
not
happening
during
the
virtual
saying
it
can't
be
the
same
reasons
that
people
are
saying
that
they
don't
like
sheriff's
sales
doesn't
have
to
do
with
virtual.
It
just
sounds
like
people
are
saying
we
don't
like
sheriff's
sales
and
I
don't
like
them
either,
but
the
the
reality
of
the
situation
is
that
the
information
that
we're
hearing
that
we
read
the
same
things.
M
We
read
the
court's
opinion
too,
and
we
read
the
opinion
of
the
city
solicitor,
which
gives
advice
to
the
city
council
about
legal
means
of
what
they
can
do
or
can't
do
with
respect
to
stopping
things.
Well,
we
we
we
get
those
same.
We
follow
the
same
laws
that
the
city
solicitor
follows
and
if
we're
looking
into
the
law
and
what
we're
able
to
do
literally
able
to
do
that
will
be
able
to
allow
us
to
continue
for
two
months.
M
We
would,
I
haven't,
found
anything
yet
and
what
what
I
I
think-
and
I
apologize
it's
not
I'm
upset
it's
I'm
just
excited
in
terms
of
what
I'm
talking
trying
to
get
my
point
across,
because
it's
not
only
I'm
talking
to
city
council.
There
are
other
people
on
here,
so
I
don't
want
the
public
to
think
that
all
the
sheriff
has
to
do
is
write
this
letter,
because
that's
the
narrative
and
that's
not
true-
and
I
don't
want
people
to
think
that
well
she's
being
stubborn,
she
just
don't
want
to
write
the
letter.
M
G
Can
we
just
just
again
I'm
so
sorry,
I
I
really
I
I
want
to
just
move
on,
but
I
I
I
heard
what
they
said.
I
heard
a
lot
of
things
that
they
can't
do
right,
so
I'm
just-
and
I
can
really
be
done
with
my
line
of
questions
if
they
could
just
give
me
one
hypothetical
scenario,
one
something
that
they
could
like.
What
do
he?
I
I
hear
what
they
can't
find,
what
they
can't
do
and
what
they're
not
able
to.
So
what
would
you
need
to
find?
What
is
an
example
of
what?
G
What
can
I
no
we?
We
are
aware
that
the
letter
of
long
will
not
allow
the
postponement,
because
we
know
that
the
court
will
have
to
make
a
ruling.
We
are
clear
that
you
are
not
comfortable
sending
a
letter.
Like
that's
that's
clear,
I
I
do
get
that
I'm
just
trying
to
figure
out
like
what
is
an
example
of
something
that
can
happen
that
will
make
you
feel
comfortable.
So
we
can
kind
of
understand
your
perspective
and,
where
you're
coming
from
as
it
relates
to
what
would
make
you
get
to
that
point.
A
J
First
of
all,
I
can't
ask
for
a
stay
that
is
either
from
the
lawyers
on
any
mortgage
foreclosure
and
just
to
reiterate,
councilman
councilman,
thomas,
the
ones
that
deal
with
tax
and
tax
lien
sales.
We
already
stated
that
is
the
law
department.
They
can
pull
all
of
that
at
any
time.
That's
not
what
we're
dealing
with
we
basically
focusing
on
mortgage
foreclosure
sales,
which
are
not
the
ones
dealing
with
the
pandemic.
They
have
been
there
pre-pandemic.
J
A
You
sheriff
sheriff,
you
know,
thank
you
so
very
much
for
that
clarity.
I
I
hope
you
have
council
member
thomas
gotten.
The
answer
I
think
both
mr
shabazz
and
and
sheriff
bilal
have
been
very
clear
in
in
in
their
in
their
responses,
and
so
while
we
may
not
like
the
response
that
we
are
receiving,
they
have,
in
fact
you
know
been
as
direct
as
direct
can
be
to.
A
Let
us
know
that,
even
with
all
of
the
testimony
and
preparation
for
this
hearing
that
we've
sent
to
them
for
all
of
the
panels
who
will
testify
in
that
testimony,
nor
in
the
letter
that
we
sent
from
council,
you
know
nor
in
any
of
the
glitches
that
have
because
they
have
been
technical
glitches
and
if
you
read
through
the
testimony
from
you
know,
that
was
in
the
information
that
we
submitted
to
you
sheriff.
You
know
that's
in
there
and
and
with
all
of
that.
A
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair
and
I'll
just
go
on
the
record
and
say
that
the
tone
is
just
a
little
disappointing.
I
think
you
know
we're
just
trying
to
get
some
clarity.
This
has
been
for
me
extremely
informative.
We
just
want
to
be
able
to
provide
citizens
with
quality
information,
and
you
know
I
I'll
apologize
if
their
folks
feel
like
this
is
a
personal
attack
or
anything
like
that.
I
think
we're
just
trying
to
do
what
we
feel
like
is
just
best
for
the
people.
So
thank
you,
madam
chair.
G
A
You
thank
you
so
much
councilmember
thomas
for
your
for
your
questions.
Sheriff
I'm
go
we're
about
to
move
to
the
second
panel
before
we
get
this
sheriff.
I
want
to
state
for
the
record
and
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
that
we
did
send
the
sheriff's
office
a
memo
last
week
requesting
a
litany
of
information
and
efforts
to
prepare
council
members
for
this
hearing
sheriff.
Thank
you
and
your
team
for
responding
to
the
best
of
your
ability.
A
One
of
the
things
that
we
asked
for
was
a
copy
of
the
executed
contract
with
bid
for
assets
as
well
as
any
subcontracts
that
bid
for
assets
has
entered
into
and
in
order
to
carry
out
philadelphia
share
of
sales
on
his
platform
and
again,
thank
you.
We
received
the
contract
with
bid
for
assets
and
it
was
received.
The
contract
was
dated
on
march,
the
16th
2021,
but
we
did
not
receive
any
sub
contracts
and
apparently
under
the
contract,
with
bid
for
assets,
the
sheriff
has
to
approve
subcontracts.
A
J
F
Thank
you,
chairperson.
That's
actually
a
great
question.
This
is
curtis
douglas
the
undersheriff.
As
the
sheriff
stated
earlier,
there
was
a
pandemic
that
started
in
march,
so
what
the
sheriff
did
was
started
to
think
out
of
the
box,
because
we
were
unable
to
have
sheriff's
sales
so
starting
in
august
of
2020,
the
sheriff
started
looking
for
other
avenues
through
which
we
could
have
those
share
sales
and
that
started
with
first
that's.
When
the
term
virtual
came
up,
we
talked
to
people
from
allegheny
county
who
I
believe
you
have
current.
F
Today
we
talked
to
bid
for
assets
as
well
as
another
auctioneer,
so
there
was
a
process
that
we
use.
We
saw
the
demonstrations
by
offering
and
we
discussed
with
them
what
they
could
do
to
make
virtual
sales
happen
for
us
and
that's
what
happened,
but
we
found
we
found
virtual
bid
for
assets.
I'm
sorry.
A
Okay,
thank
you
under
sheriff
and
just
help
me
again.
Just
for
clarity.
You
put
out
an
rfp
for
firms
that
had
the
ability
to
move
the
sheriff's
sales
to
a
virtual
platform
and
bid
for
assets
was
just
one
of
the
firms
who
responded
to
the
rfp,
and
there
were
three.
There
were
three
firms
who
responded
to
the
rfp,
and
you
know
after
review
from
your
team,
you
made
a
decision
to
select
bid
for
assets.
F
Okay,
we
we
did
not
issue
an
rfp,
I'm
sorry
counselor.
We
did
not
our
chairperson.
We
did
not
issue
an
rfp
because
of
the
pandemic
and
because
we
were
already
three
three
four
or
five
months
into
not
having
sheriff's
sales
and
through
the
use
of
covet,
we
felt
that
there
was
an
emergency,
because
the
sheriff
was
unable
to
exercise
her
duty
as
dictated
by
the
loss.
F
She
was
not
unable
to
execute
sheriff's
sales,
so
we
went
through
the
process
of
trying
to
find
someone
who
could
come
in
and
execute
those
sheriff's
sales
for
us
or
help
us
do
it
virtually.
So
we
went
through
that
process
where,
as
I
said,
we
interviewed
talked
to
and
looked
at
three
separate
providers
and
bid
for
assets
was
the
one
we
chose.
A
A
In
addition
to
that
sheriff
one
of
the
things
after
we
read
about
this
in
a
newspaper
article
that
you
have
made
this
decision
to
move
to
a
virtual,
a
platform,
you
told
us
afterwards
when
you
realized
that
we
had
so
many
concerns.
You
said
well,
wait
a
minute,
maybe
I
said
permanent,
but
I
don't
really
mean
permanent.
You
said,
instead
of
it
being
permanent,
it
will
be
a
pilot
and
then,
in
response
to
questions
today,
when
we
asked
about
the
pilot
period,
you
talked
about
six
months.
A
A
If
we
viewed
this
and
if
you
viewed
this
sheriff
as
a
pilot
program,
is
there
any
rationale
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
why
the
contract
would
be
entered
into
through
december
31st
2027-
and
I
know
you
have
mentioned
to
me-
and
I
do
want
to
get
this
on
the
record-
that
you
said
that
there's
a
clause
in
the
contract
that
will
allow
you,
I
think,
to
terminate
it.
If
my
memory
serves
me
correctly,
because
you
said
this
verbally,
both
you
and
mr
shabazz,
I
believe
that
was
90
days.
A
J
Okay,
basically
having
a
conversation
and
the
concerns
that
we
heard
and
basically
saying
permanent
and
really
did
not
look
at
the
fact
that
we
are
going
to
be
reviewing
this
on
a
on
a
metric
basis
to
see
how
this
fits
for
the
city.
So
I
walk
back
permanent
because
in
the
contract
it
basically
says
that
we
can
terminate
it
with
a
90-day
notice.
For
any
reason
we
want
this
to
be
permanent.
J
J
We
want
it
that
way.
So
the
contract
is
a
multi-year
contract,
but,
as
I
spoke
in
making
it
a
pilot
program
so
that
we
can
review
it.
If
we
review
it
in
six
months
and
it
turns
out
to
be
excellent,
there
would
be
no
reason
to
terminate
the
contract
if
we
we
view
it,
and
it
looks
like
it's
not
fitting
for
philadelphia
like
it
has
fitted
around
other
cities.
J
Then
we
have
that
option
to
terminate
the
contract,
so
we
didn't
get
into
a
contract
that
would
penalize
us
or
the
city
if
if
it
did
not
work
out,
so
that's
the
reason
why,
with
my
attorneys
here
going
over
the
contract
asked
to
bring
it
back
to
70
days,
I
can
say:
well
we're
just
make
it
a
pilot
program
see
how
it
works.
We
like
the
virtual
cells,
we
think
it's
a
benefit,
for
we
really
want
it
to
be
permanent.
A
A
D
F
That's
that's
correct
council
person.
However,
I
want
you
to
understand
that
the
process
that
we
went
through
actually
mirrored
the
rfp
process
and
also
we
were
operating
under
a
time
when
the
mayor
had
given,
and
he
has
stated
that
we
were
under
an
emergency
and
that
the
line
persons
or
line
managers
which
the
sheriff
would
be
one
of
was
under
under
pressure
to
execute
her
duties.
F
So
because
of
that,
that
was
that
that's
executive
order
issued
by
the
mayor,
the
sheriff
felt
that
in
order
to
actually
perform
her
functions,
she
would
have
to
do
what
she
would
have
to
go
through
this
process.
And
again
just
so,
I
would
say
the
rfp
process.
We
would
still
not
have
been
able
to
do
a
live
sheriff's
cell
if
we
had
to
go
through
a
process.
At
this
point,
we
will
still
not
be
there.
D
Sir,
I
understand
that
there
is
a
fundamental
difference
between
whether
an
rfp
process
formally
occurred
or
whether
you
felt
like
you
went
through
something
that
mirrors
an
rfp
process.
An
rfp
process
is
not,
from
your
perspective,
it's
from
the
perspective
of
other
potential
bidders,
so
it
does
seem
to
be
of
concern
for
me
that
a
contract
that
could
potentially
be
tens
of
millions
of
dollars
is
embarking
on
new
territory,
where
we
have
multiple
individuals
who
felt
like
they
were
not
adequately
consulted
and
entities
also
did
not
have
an
rfp
formality
to
it.
D
I
don't
have
any
other
questions.
Do
you
have?
Is
that
do
you
have
any
other
contracts?
Is
it
your
normal
process
to
go
through
an
rp
process
for
contracts
from
the
sheriff's
office?
Yes,
is
there
any
other?
Is
there
any
other?
Is
there
any
other
contract
that
you
currently
have
that
that
did
not
go
through
the
rfp
process?
That
is
for
six
years,
no.
F
That
is
correct.
That
not
only
is
that
it
was
an
emergency
right
now,
but
based
upon
our
research,
there
were
only
four
companies
that
were
capable
of
doing
that
three
of
them
we
actually
interviewed.
So
we
felt
that
we
did
a
pretty
fairly
extensive
vetting
process
when
we
chose
the
one
company
who
mirrored
us
and
did
not
charge
us
anything.
C
C
Had
in
records
of
trying
to
have
a
sheriff
sale
process,
considering
the
constraints
of
listing
and
trying
to
find
a
location
within
the
city
of
philadelphia
be
able
to
have
that
type
of
regular
event,
but
still
maintaining
the
dictated
by
dr
farley
in
public
health
perspectives
and
also
trying
to
find
location
I'll
be
large
enough.
That
would
also
not
be
exorbitant
from
an
expense
perspective,
and
so
I
guess
my
question
is
that
considering
that
dynamic
and
the
fact
that
the
sheriff's
office
is
a
an
office
of
the
court,
is
it
my?
C
My
understanding
is
that
considering
that
sheriff's
sales
have
not
occurred
for
a
period
of
time
and
that
there
was
a
need
to
have
sheriff's
sales
going
forward?
They
have
a
decision
to
go
with
this
online
format,
and
the
reasoning
and
not
asking
the
court
for
additional
delay
of
share
of
sales
is
based
on
the
fact
that
there's
already
been
a
delay
for
a
period
of
time,
and
it
was
a
concern
regarding
litigation
by
not
going
forward
with
sheriff's
sales
and
by
doing
sheriff's
sales
in
a
virtual
format.
My
correcting
my
understanding.
M
Not
not
exactly
because
we
have
a
way
to
perform
the
sheriff's
sale
and
adhere
to
covert
19
protocol
where
we
keep
people
safe.
That
is
not.
We
don't
have
to
cancel
it
because
of
weather
or
snow
or
or
those
type
of
inclement
situations
that
occur.
So
we
have
the
ability
now
to
conduct
sheriff's
sales
and
because
we
have
the
ability
to
conduct
it
in
a
safe
environment
and
what
we
believe
is
a
a
fair
environment
in
what
we
believe
is
a
secure
environment.
That's
the
reason.
F
J
A
A
We
would
share
like
it
if
you
and
or
members
of
your
team,
maybe
not
all,
but
if
you
could
stay
around
sheriff,
because
we
have
multiple
panels
to
testify
and
if
anything
comes
up
sheriff
and
we
need
to
so
to
call
on
you
and
or
members
of
your
a
legal
team
to
respond
to
any
of
the
information
that
is
on
the
record.
Obviously,
we
would
greatly
appreciate
that
and
rachel
meadows,
please
don't
kill
us
when
we
do
this,
but
sheriff.
A
Or
do
you
still
have
you
know,
sort
of
control
over
that
aspect?
Yes,
I
do
no
they're,
not
okay,
so
they
they're
not
doing
that.
In
addition
to
that,
is
there
sort
of
any
kind
of
auditing
to
ensure
that
bid
for
assets
is
in
essence,
remitting
the
correct
amount
of
funds
to
the
office
of
the
sheriff.
J
Yes,
ma'am.
We
built
that
into
the
system,
basically
prior
to
me,
coming
in
for
sure
there
was
a
whole
lot
of
accounts
all
over
the
place.
Different
assets
for
each
cell
has
its
own
account.
So
therefore,
everything
is
accountable
right
there.
Now,
yes,
we
get
the
sheet
as
to
what
was
it
sheeted
to
us
everything
that
comes
out
of
that
is
on
that
report.
So,
yes,
we
are
basically
making
sure
that
nothing
happens.
There.
A
You
know
from
our
reading
right
of
the
contract
that
that
is
not
what
the
contract
says
as
it
relates
to
auditing,
and
although
we
have
to
move
on
to
the
second
panel,
one
of
the
things
I'm
going
to
do
is
to
ask
my
technical
team
to
work
to
make
sure
that
we
send
that
portion
of
the
contract
back
to
your
office
to
review.
And
maybe
you
can
provide
some
clarity,
because
that's
not
what
it
says
again.
J
A
Can't
excuse
me,
madam
chair,
excuse
me
not
for
the
auditing,
not
for
the
auditing.
I'm
sorry,
I
asked
two
question
questions.
One
was
as
it
relates
to
the
advertising
of
functions
and
then
the
second
question
was
about
the
auditing
and
you
answered
both
of
them.
But
what
I
was
referring
to
was
not
the
auditing.
It
was
the
advertising
functions
and,
and
the
contract
says
something
different
about
advertising.
A
But
my
again,
I've
asked
my
team
to
highlight
that
and
to
send
the
email
back
over
to
your
office
immediately
because
it's
you
know,
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
you
still
control
those
functions.
You
know
the
challenges
we
had
in
making
sure
that
black
and
brown
communities
and
newspapers
and
other
mediums
got
access
to
the
opportunity
to
advertise
and
the
contract
just
says
something
different.
According
to
our
interpretation,
okay,.
J
J
A
A
Afternoon,
excuse
me
gina
before
you
go,
I
also
see
jane
is
jane,
also
going
to
be
on
this
panel,
because
I
know
we
were
about
to
lose
her
she's
going
to
be
on
the
next
panel.
Okay
jane,
I
just
don't
want
to
lose
you,
okay,
gina!
Thank
you
all
so
very
much
for
being
here
good
afternoon.
You
are
ready
and
connected.
Please
proceed
state,
your
name
for
the
record.
T
Yes,
good
afternoon
chairwoman,
parker
members
of
the
committee
on
law
and
government,
my
name
is
sergeant
gina
dascola,
I
am
a
sergeant
at
the
allegheny
county
sheriff's
office.
I've
been
a
sergeant
in
charge
of
the
real
estate
department
for
about
seven
and
a
half
years
that
had
have
conducted
all
of
our
sheriff
sales.
For
the
last
seven
and
a
half
years.
I'm
here
to
testify
on
resolution
two
one:
zero,
two
nine
five
I've
been
asked
just
to
come
on
and
explain
to
everyone
how
we
move
forward
with
the
virtual
cell
in
allegheny
county.
T
So
I'm
going
to
explain
a
little
bit.
I
won't
be
long
if
you
have
questions
I'll,
take
them,
and
I
also
want
to
clarify
something
that
was
submitted
earlier
today.
I
will
do
that
at
the
end
of
my
presentation,
so
we
had
a
sheriff's
cell
in
march
of
2020
pandemic
hit.
We
did
not
have
shear
fells
shells
in
april
and
may
2020
sheriff
mullin
says
we
have
to
find
a
way
to
move
forward
with
these.
Now,
let
me
tell
you
anybody
that
knows
me
will
tell
you.
I
hate
sheriff
cells.
T
That
is
my
least
favorite
day
of
the
month.
My
predecessor,
who
trained
me
trained
me
to
protect
the
homeowner,
so
I
have
for
the
last
seven
and
a
half
years
protected
the
homeowners
of
allegheny
county
in
losing
their
homes.
I
make
sure
the
eyes
are
dotted
and
the
t's
are
crossed
before
any
properties
are
sold
so
come
june.
2020
sheriff
mullen
says
we
have
to
find
a
way
to
move
forward.
I
said,
okay,
I
was
very
very
against
virtual.
We
sat
down
and
we
talked
about.
T
How
could
we
do
this,
so
it
would
be
as
realistic
as
possible
as
me
doing
my
normal
monthly
share
of
sales
we
played
around.
We
looked
at
zoom.
We
looked
at
google
google
classroom,
I
believe
it
was
and
we
looked
at
microsoft
teams.
We
found
out
that
allegheny
county
already
had
a
contract
with
microsoft
teams,
so
we
decided
to
try
and
make
microsoft
teams
work.
T
So
what
we
did
is
we
got
a
panel
together
of
our
local
council
and
some
of
our
regular
third-party
bidders,
and
we
did
some
testing
on
teams
to
figure
out
how
we
were
going
to
do
this.
We
decided
to
point
a
powerpoint
presentation
to
show
only
the
property
address
and
not
the
pictures
of
the
property.
T
Just
the
property
address
case
number
share
cell
number,
defendant's
name
and
attorney's
name,
which
were
always
stated
in
any
open
forum
when
we
did
share
sales
live
in
person,
so
we
worked
june
and
july
and
on
august
3rd
2020,
I'm
happy
to
say
that,
with
a
court
order
from
the
administrative
judge
of
our
civil
division,
we
were
able
to
move
forward
with
a
virtual
share
sale.
We
use
microsoft
teams
for
those
that
wanted
to
bid.
You
had
to
be
registered
bidder
in
order
to
participate
in
allegheny,
county
sheriff's
sales.
T
We
use
teams
as
the
bidding
process.
Everyone
bids
in
the
chat
box,
except
for
plaintiff's
council.
They
are
allowed
to
unmute
and
talk.
We
also
had
to
find
public
forums
to
use
this.
So
facebook
live
is
a
public
forum
that
everybody
could
go
and
watch
it
live.
We
also
had
to
find
a
way
for
those
that
did
not
have
access
to
the
internet
and
what
they
were
gonna
do
so
in
our
corridor.
It
allowed
for
up
to
25
people
in
our
gold
room.
T
Our
gold
room
is
the
biggest
room
in
the
allegheny
county
courthouse,
and
that
is
where
I
used
to
conduct
all
the
sheriff
sales.
When
they
were
a
person,
the
court
order
allowed
for
25
people
in
person
to
come
to
the
gold
room.
They
would
go
to
the
goal
room.
There's
a
deputy
there
with
a
laptop
who
takes
over
the
technology
for
them.
They
verbally
make
their
bids.
The
deputy
puts
it
in
microsoft
teams
and
I
move
forward
with
myself.
T
We
conduct
sales,
the
first
monday
of
every
month
that
has
been
in
allegheny
county,
probably
for
the
last
30
years.
We
haven't
changed
how
we
do
them.
We
do
them
once
a
month.
They
are
mortgage
foreclosures
and
tax
sales.
Together
we
average
between
three
and
400
sales
a
month.
I
have
to
say
that,
due
to
the
pandemic
and
everything
that's
going
on,
we
probably
expose
somewhere
between
75
and
100
sales
per
month.
Majority
of
them
have
are
absolutely
pre-covered.
T
We
have
a
few
that
may
have
come
up
during
covid,
but
the
bulk
of
them
or
everything
that
happened.
Pre-Code
that
are
being
auctioned
off
sales
are
advertised
in
the
pittsburgh
post
gazette
and
the
pittsburgh
legal
journal.
We
also
have
our
website
sheriff
allegheny
county
dot
com
that
would
put
our
list.
We
put
our
list
that
is
our
current
sale
and
are
listed
as
our
postponed
sale
that
are
going
for
the
following
sale.
We
keep
the
results
from
the
month
before
on
there
and
we
have
the
information
for
the
upcoming
month.
T
Cell
stays
and
postponements
are
announced
at
the
very
beginning
of
my
sheriff's
cell.
So
when
I
conduct
my
virtual
sheriff
cell
and
if
anybody
would
like
to
see
how
I
do
it,
you
can
go
on
the
sheriff
of
allegheny
county's
facebook
page.
You
can
also
go
on
our
website.
I
believe
our
it
guy
has
put
one
of
the
virtual
cells
on
there
and
see
how
I
conduct
it.
I
open
the
sale
by
reading
the
conditions
of
sale
that
are
in
the
newspaper.
Our
conditions
of
sale
also
include
the
land
banks.
T
Our
land
banks
are
done
at
the
end
of
our
sales
all
the
time.
It
is
a
sale
conducted
strictly
between
myself
and
the
land
banks.
No
one
else
is
allowed
to
bid
on
them
after
I
read
the
conditions
to
sell
my
livestock.
I
then
move
forward
announcing
all
the
properties
that
have
been
postponed
to
future
months
and
all
those
that
have
been
stayed.
T
Let
me
see
I'm
just
going
to
realistic
questions.
We
did
not
have
to
increase
any
staff
with
for
this
virtual
sale.
We
did
not
have
to
spend
any
money
doing
this
virtual
sale
other
than
70
dollars
for
a
piece
of
software
that
took
the
software
that
we
have
now
and
converted
it
into
the
powerpoint
presentation.
So
that's
all
we
have
spent
on
it.
Does
it
take
a
little
bit
of
teamwork?
Yes,
it
does
take
teamwork
to
do
the
show,
but
you
know
what
we
did
teamwork
when
I
did
it
live
in
person.
T
So
it's
nothing
new
that
we're
doing
teamwork.
Now
we
did
teamwork.
When
I
did
it
live,
we
do
teamwork.
When
I
do
it
virtual.
It's
the
same
people
working
virtual
as
it
was
live.
We
everyone
must
register
to
bid.
They
must
be
registered
to
bid
the
week
before
the
sale.
We
do
have
deadlines,
they
are
in
our
conditions
of
sale
and
they
are
published
registered
bidders.
T
T
It
took
a
minute
or
two.
We
got
it
to
work.
We
had
a
few
technical
difficulties
on
facebook
live
and
in
the
package
that
you
got
from
the
philadelphia
sheriff,
I
believe
it's
on
pages
23
to
26.
The
excerpts
that
are
in
there
are
excerpts
of
people
that
are
just
watching
it.
Late
on
facebook
live,
they
are
not
people
that
are
part
of
the
sale,
they're,
just
people
that
are
watching
it
on
facebook
live
that
were
just
commenting
on
the
cell.
T
So
no
matter
what
kind
of
technology
you
use
to
have
any
type
of
virtual
share
of
cell,
whether
it's
using
using
an
online
auction
format
or
using
microsoft
teams
like
we
do
you
know,
technology
has
its
glitches,
but
we've
been
able
to
work
through
minor
ones.
Before
we
went
live
in
august
of
2020,
we
did
have
several
testings
with
our
local
law
firms,
like
I
said
in
our
local
third
party,
bidders
that
we
use
all
the
time
we
have
noticed
an
increase
of
the
amount
of
bidders.
T
T
Vendor
bid
for
assets
has
reached
out
to
me
several
times
and
so
have
several
other
ones,
but
I
think
I
have
pretty
much
stated
everything
I
just
wanted
to
make
two
clarifications,
and
these
were
in
whenever
the
sheriff
of
philadelphia
did
observe
us.
When
she
first
observed
us,
it
was
very
early
on
in
what
we
were
doing.
T
T
My
first
sale
in
august,
I
did
have
a
phone
call
from
a
auction
firm
that
was
in
ohio.
I
did
talk
to
them,
but
I
was
pretty
upset
about
the
amount
of
cost
it
would
be
either
for
the
plaintiff
that
was
bringing
it
to
sale
or
the
third
party
purchaser
to
pay
on
top
of
what
they're
already
paying
for
a
property.
T
I
thought
that
would
be
detrimental
even
to
the
defendant
if
they
were
trying
to
redeem
their
property
or
whatever,
to
pay
any
additional
sales
when
they
did
call
me,
I
said
no
thank
you,
because
when
we
decided
to
go
virtual,
I
wanted
to
be
as
realistic
as
possible.
I
wanted
to
stay
connected
with
the
attorneys.
I
wanted
to
stay
connected
with
the
people
that
I
deal
with
all
the
time
and
to
stay
connected
with
them
and
to
be
realistic
is
the
way
I
wanted
to
keep
it.
T
I
did
it
the
way
I
wanted
to.
I
have
had
bid
for
assets
call
me
I
have
had
auctions.com,
I
probably
have
six
or
seven
of
them
that
continually
email
me
and
call
me.
It's
got
to
the
point
where
I
told
my
staff
tell
them
I'm
in
the
meeting,
I'm
not
talking
to
them.
We
have
successfully
done
this.
Our
attorneys
are
happy
with
it.
Our
third
party
purchasers
are
happy
with
it.
A
A
You
know
in
california,
in
china,
in
russia,
in
germany
you
mean
they
can.
You
know,
you
know,
buy
philadelphia
property,
you
know
just
online
now
they
don't
even
have
to
you
know,
hire
a
person
in
philadelphia,
which
is
what
they
would
normally
do,
because
I
don't
want
to
give
you
know.
I
don't
want
to
give
the
impression
that
I'm
attempting
to
say
that
you
know
out
of
country
or
out
of
state
or
out
of
city,
you
know.
A
T
I
do
agree,
and
the
other
thing
I
did
not
want
to
get
locked
into
is
a
contract
with
somebody,
because
you
know
moving
forward
when
we
can
all
get
through
this
pandemic.
I'm
hoping
that
one
day
we
do
go
back
to
in-person
sales.
You
know
I
don't
want
to
always
talk
to
somebody
on
a
computer.
If
I
don't
have
to
got.
A
It
gina
again,
thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
testimony
here
today.
In
addition
to
that,
because
you
just
learned
that
allegheny
county
has
in
essence
and
gina.
This
is
the
way
I
would
describe
it.
We
in
the
city
council
of
philadelphia
had
to
find
out
find
a
way
to
meet
right
virtually
because
we
couldn't
go
back
into
our
chambers,
and
our
council
president
and
technical
team
did
exactly
the
same
thing
that
you
guys
did.
A
We
have
a
contract
with
microsoft
teams
and
we
in
essence
conduct
our
city
council
hearings
virtually,
but
we
use
it
through
the
microsoft
teams
platform
and
the
technical
team
and
gina
I'm
not
a
technical
person
at
all,
but
we
have
a.
We
have
a
very
savvy
technical
team
here
in
the
city
council
of
philadelphia
in-house
and
we've
watched
them
from
the
time
we
just
started
up
until
now,
and
our
council
sessions
aside
from
something
during
the
budget
the
mayor's
budget
address.
A
They
had
nothing
to
do
with
us
that
had
everything
to
do
with
them,
but
we've
been
sort
of
moving.
You
know
seamlessly
to
host
our
our
council
sessions
and
also
now,
because
bid
for
assets
came
up.
I
need
to
state
for
the
record
for
the
public
that
we
invited
bid
for
assets
to
testify
that
we
had
we
in
an
effort
to
plan
and
schedule
for
this
hearing
had
bid
for
assets
on
the
first
panel
with
the
sheriff
to
answer
the
questions
of
members
of
this
legislative
body.
A
Unfortunately,
after
acknowledging
that
they
did
receive
our
email,
the
first
time
we
sent
it
the
invitation,
we
have
not
received
any
communication
from
them
so
gina.
If
they
are
one
of
the
entities
that
is
still
emailing
you
and
calling
you,
we
wish
they
would
have
emailed
and
called
us
back
as
well.
But
I
also
want
to
state
this-
and
this
is
relative
to
city
council
subpoena
power.
A
The
instant
hearing
investigating
the
decision
to
permanently
move
sheriff's
sales
online
was
authorized
by
resolution
number
two
one:
zero,
two:
nine
five
that
was
adopted
by
city
council
on
april,
twenty
first,
twenty
twenty
one
under
our
home
rule
charter,
state
law
and
the
rules
for
the
government
of
council.
This
council
has
the
authority,
in
the
course
of
its
current
investigation,
to
require
witnesses,
to
attend
hearings
and
to
compel
documents
and
other
evidence
to
be
produced.
Subpoenas
issued
by
this
committee
in
the
course
of
his
inquiry
or
investigation
can
be
enforced
by
the
courts.
A
So
the
last
question
that
you
heard
me
asking
the
sheriff
during
her
panel
about
the
contract
in
and
of
itself,
and
if
there
were
any
other
subcontracts
that
bid
for
assets
engaged
in
in
order
to
carry
out
the
sheriff's
sale
online
and
the
sheriff
had
to
answer
that
question.
That
was
really
a
question
that
I
didn't
want
the
sheriff
to
answer.
A
We
wanted
bid
for
assets
to
answer
that
question
directly
and
unfortunately
they
chose
to
not
respond
to
our
invitation
and
thus
decided
it
wasn't
important
enough
for
them
to
be
here.
To
answer
our
questions
so
gina
listen,
thank
you
so
very
much
and
we
will
be
in
contact
with
you
really
soon
and
maybe
if
we
need
some
technical
assistance,
oh
you
have
your
finger
up
any
other.
T
T
They
are
to
be
publicly
announced
that
I
believe
that's
in
the
rules
of
civil
procedure,
that
they
are
to
be
publicly
announced.
So
I
did
see
that
in
your
resolution-
and
that
was
definitely
concerning
to
me
because
I
do
announce
those
at
the
beginning
of
my
sale.
I
know
that
they're
online
and
you
can
see
that
they
were
stayed
or
postponed,
but
I
don't
know
that
the
rules
allow
you
not
to
publicly
announce
them
so
that
that's
that.
That's
what
I
had
to
say
in
conclusion,
but
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
speak.
T
A
You
so
much
gina.
Are
there
any
comments
or
questions
from
any
of
my
colleagues
hearing?
Nothing
excuse
me.
Excuse
me
sheriff
we're
on
another
panel.
She
she
was
is
allowed
to
testify.
So
we
had
you
on
the
panel.
We
asked
you
to
be
here
to
respond
if
we
as
a
council
have
any
questions
for
you,
but
not
to
comment
on
any
testimony
provided
by
any
of
our
other
witnesses.
That's
not
happening.
A
A
A
First,
let
me
just
start
by
thanking
each
and
every
one
of
you
so
very
much
for
your
your
patience
with
us
here
today.
We
want
to
start
with
you
angel
and
then
we'll
just
go
through
and
order
rachel
identified,
we'll
just
ask
you
to
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
please
proceed
with
your
testimony
and
angel.
I
heard
a
lot
of
people
talk
about
the
land
bank
today
and
a
whole
lot
of
it
was
a
whole
lot
different
than
what
I
read
in
your
testimony.
I
I
So
I
do
want
to
apologize
to
the
share
for
not
having
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
them
directly
about
that,
but
the
land
bank
has
cathedral
and
financial
concerns
about
the
move
to
philadelphia.
Taxing
for
closure
spare
failed
to
a
virtual
platform
via
bid
for
assets
and
the
concerns
specifically
about
the
impact
of
this
stranger
in
the
following
areas:
the
process
deficiency,
notice
of
the
land
bank,
priority
bid
and
announcement
at
sale,
conditions
of
sale,
calculation
of
the
priority
bid
amount
versus
acquisition
price
time
frame
for
provision
of
the
deed
to
the
land
bank.
I
The
second
issue
is
that
we
have
a
concern
which
I
know,
councilwoman
kim
pro
notified-
that
you
know
the
notice
of
the
land
banks,
potential
bid
or
activity
in
the
in
the
carousel
notices.
They
are
on
the
share
field
website,
but
not
clearly
outlined
in
bid
for
assets
platform,
so
that
is
also
a
concern.
It's
also
a
requirement
on
the
estate
statute.
I
Also,
there
is
no
indication
in
terms
of
sale
or
anywhere
else
on
the
bid
for
assets
platform
that
the
land
bank
bids
will
be
presented
at
the
beginning
of
this
virtual
sale.
The
sheriff's
office
has
not
provided
any
information
to
us
to
that
point
other
than
what
I
heard
in
testimony
today.
I
will
state
as
well
that
in
the
previous
panel
we
heard
from
this
pair
from
allegheny
county.
I
You
know
in
person
at
in-person
sales,
the
land
bank,
priority
bids
are
announced
at
the
beginning,
and
it's
the
first
item
of
business
and
no
under
no
other
properties
are
announced
forbid.
Until
land
banks
bids
have
been
announced,
the
sale
pronounced
as
final
for
each
bid
and
a
receipt
issued
to
the
land
bank
for
each
property.
Now
this
brings
up
the
issue
as
to
why
we
in-person
sales.
I
In
virtual
sales,
there
has
been
no
indication
to
us
that
we
would
not
have
to
register
for
each
sale
with,
at
which
time
it
intends
that
we
have
to
submit
a
fifteen
hundred
dollar
deposit
by
certified
track
or
wire
transfer
and
pay
a
thirty
five
dollar
registration
fee
for
each
sale.
Land
bank
attends
all
three
tax
sales
per
month.
That
would
mean
an
additional
four
forty
six
hundred
dollars.
I
The
next
question
that
we
had
about
the
move
to
virtual
sales
on
the
bid
for
asset
platform
is,
and
also
the
difference
in
person
bit
amount
pursuant
to
the
state
statute
and
the
memorandum
of
understanding
with
the
city,
the
school
district
and
gw
is
that
the
land
bank
is
responsible
for
all
city
liens,
and
that
includes
real
estate
taxes,
water
and
sewer
bills.
Other
municipal
liens,
including
pgw
liens
land
bank,
does
not
submit
deposits
for
10
on
any
of
the
bid
amounts
that
we
do
at
that
time.
I
Also
the
amount
after
the
sale,
the
land
bank
is
under
our
mou.
We
would
play
the
lesser
of
the
amounts,
whether
the
opa
value
or
the
total
real
estate
taxes,
gas
and
water
lien,
but
that
was
not
clear
to
us.
Under
virtual
sales,
as
been
has
been
discussed
today,
bid
for
assets,
you
know,
expects
a
bid
amount
plus
a
10
premium
on
total
purchase
price,
which
includes
fair,
fail,
cost
transfer
taxes
which
I'd
like
to
point
out
transfers
into
the
land
bank.
I
The
land
bank
is
exempt
from
transfer
taxes
than
any
recording
fee
and
also
the
time,
so
the
other
stipulation
that
no
later
than
the
day
following
the
sale,
the
winning
bidder
must
take
10
to
the
of
the
total
purchase
that
price
plus
the
35
dollars
to
bid
for
assets
does
not
fit
with
the
mou,
where,
typically,
we
are
invoiced
by
the
the
spare
department,
and
we
then
make
payment
at
that
point
I'll.
Just
since
I've
already
submitted
the
my
testimony
in
writing.
I
The
only
other
issue
would
be
the
time
frame
for
receipt
of
deed
to
the
land
bank,
though,
typically,
and
under
the
state
statute,
the
land
bank
is
recruiting.
The
tariff
department
is
required
under
the
state
statute
to
issue
the
land
bank,
a
deed
within
30
days
of
the
sale,
as
it's
been
outlined
in
the
virtual
sales.
I
The
process
that's
outlined
on
bid
for
assets
platform
states
that
the
sheriff
will
file
the
file
in
the
pronunciation's
office,
a
scheduled
distribution
for
30
days
of
date
of
sale,
and
this
will
be
followed
by
10
days.
A
10-day
period,
in
which
exceptions
to
the
proposed
schedule
for
distribution
may
be
filed.
Only
thereafter
will
the
spirit
be
be
acknowledged
and
recorded.
I
A
Thank
you
so
much
angel
for
your
testimony.
We
greatly
appreciate
it
and
we're
going
to
ask
you
know.
We
know.
We've
held
you
a
long
time.
Council
members
after
this
panel
may
have
some
questions.
If
you
could
stay
on
with
us,
we
greatly
appreciate
it.
Next
person
is
kate,
dugan
kate,
are
you
on
I'm.
P
A
P
Thank
you
good
afternoon,
chairwoman,
parker
and
members
of
the
committee
on
law
and
government.
My
name
is
kate
dugan
and
I'm
an
attorney
in
the
home
ownership
and
consumer
rights
unit
at
community
legal
services.
I'm
here
to
testify
on
resolution
210-295,
I'm
pleased
to
have
the
opportunity
to
provide
council
with
information
about
how
the
decision
to
resume
virtual
sales
via
an
online
platform
may
impact
homeowners
in
philadelphia.
P
As
the
city's
largest
provider
of
free
legal
services,
cls
assists
approximately
12
000
of
philadelphia's
poorest
residents
with
their
legal
problems
every
year,
including
hundreds
of
homeowners
facing
mortgage
and
tax
foreclosures
that
put
them
at
risk
of
losing
their
homes
at
sheriff's
sale.
Since
the
beginning
of
the
coven
19
pandemic,
homeowners
have
experienced
extraordinary
stress
and
uncertainty,
as
sheriff's
sales
were
postponed
multiple
times
by
multiple
court
orders,
often
with
little
or
no
notice
to
homeowners.
P
For
the
past
year,
cls
has
worked
closely
with
the
city,
courts
and
sheriff's
office,
and
mortgage
lender
attorneys
to
ensure
that
vulnerable
homeowners
don't
lose
their
homes.
During
this
unprecedented
time.
Over
the
past,
our
clients
have
lost
their
jobs,
their
savings
and
their
loved
ones.
They
are
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
contact
legal
services,
navigate
the
court
system
and
reach
their
lenders
to
get
information
about
their
payment
options.
Well,
many
of
the
problems
low-income
homeowners
are
facing
right
now
are
not
directly
caused
by
the
move
to
virtual
platform.
P
P
Although
the
change
to
virtual
sales
has
the
potential
to
impact
owners
of
all
kinds
of
properties,
we're
especially
concerned
about
the
impact
it
may
have
on
owner
occupants
we're
grateful
to
the
city,
the
sheriff,
the
court
and
lenders
council
for
the
willingness
to
work
with
us
in
our
ongoing
effort
to
ensure
that
no
philadelphia
family
loses
their
home
during
this
pandemic,
but
with
the
first
sales
of
philadelphia
properties
proceeding
via
the
online
platform
just
a
few
weeks
ago.
Much
remains
to
be
seen
regarding
the
impact
of
this
new
process.
P
P
We're
also
concerned,
as
many
community
members
are,
that
the
change
to
virtual
sales
will
result
in
an
influx
of
out-of-town
investors
who
now
have
an
easier
access
to
philadelphia,
sale
process
according
to
bid
for
assets.
There
are
750
000
registered
users
on
this
platform.
It
remains
to
be
seen
how
many
new
out-of-town
buyers
will
purchase
property
in
philadelphia.
P
In
certain
circumstances,
cos
often
represents
homeowners
who
are
facing
threats,
harassment
or
improper
attempts
from
the
share
of
sale
buyers
to
remove
them
from
their
homes
during
the
redemption
period.
We're
concerned
that
this
predatory
and
illegal
behavior
will
only
increase
as
sales
go
forward.
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
bid
for
assets
has
been
supportive
of
our
efforts
to
educate
new
buyers
about
occupants
rights,
whether
those
occupants
or
tenants
or
former
owners,
and
is
assisting
us
in
creating
and
distributing
educational
materials.
P
However,
we
need
to
ensure
that
these
efforts
to
educate
both
buyers
and
occupants
are
permanent
and
robust
before
proceeding
with
sale,
so
that
no
philadelphia,
so
no
philadelphia
resident
falls
victim
to
illegal
or
predatory
tactics
after
their
homeless.
It
also
remains
unclear
how
or
if
the
switch
to
virtual
sales
will
result
in
a
financial
benefit
to
homeowners.
P
It's
essential
that
homeowners
facing
the
trauma
of
losing
their
homes
have
ready
access
to
any
excess
proceeds
from
these
sales.
We
also
still
lack
a
clear
sense
as
to
what,
if
any
information
about
out-of-town
buyers
will
be
shared
with
the
public
or
former
homeowners.
The
sheriff
has
announced
that
companies
registering
to
bid
will
be
required
to
share
at
least
one
natural
person's
name
with
bid
for
assets,
but
we
don't
yet
know
whether
or
how
this
information
will
be
shared
publicly
with
former
occupants
or
with
anybody
else.
P
Finally,
moving
forward
with
sales,
especially
on
this
virtual
platform,
has
resulted
in
our
clients
and
community
members
getting
repeated
and
aggressive
phone
calls
from
investors,
potential
buyers
and
scammers.
These
calls
have
intensified
dramatically
in
the
past
month,
suggesting
that
moving
forward
with
sales
may
be
driving
this
behavior.
In
the
best
of
times
dozens
of
phone
calls
a
day
can
be
irritating,
but
for
vulnerable
homeowners
who
are
already
dealing
with
tax
problems,
mortgage
problems,
utility
bills,
food
insecurity,
repair
issues
and
health
concerns.
P
The
calls
are
having
a
much
more
serious
impact
and
the
risk
is
high
that
homeowners
may
fall
prey
to
these
tactics,
given
that
this
is
entirely
new
territory
for
the
sheriff's
office.
In
the
city,
cls
urges
caution
and
asks
that
any
decision
about
the
sheriff's
sale
process
be
made
only
after
full
consideration
of
its
impact
on
vulnerable
homeowners.
P
P
President
biden's
american
rescue
plan
with
help
for
homeowners
on
the
way
cos,
would
welcome
to
the
opportunity
to
work
with
council,
the
sheriff's
office
and
others
about
how
to
ensure
that
homeowners
don't
lose
their
homes
before
they
have
the
opportunity
to
use
this
funding
unity,
legal
services,
and
I
thank
council,
member,
parker
and
other
members
of
council
for
providing
a
forum
where
we
can
explain
these
concerns.
We
thanks
for
you,
thank
you
for
your
commitment
to
ensuring
that
philadelphians
are
informed
and
protected,
and
I
am
happy
to
stick
around
and
answer
any
questions.
A
S
Everybody,
my
name
is
ebony
griffin,
I'm
just
going
to
read
my
testimony
really
quickly.
Good
afternoon
chairwoman,
parker
and
members
of
the
committee
on
law
and
government.
My
name
is
ebony
griffin
and
I
am
testifying
about
resolution
number
210295
in
my
capacity
as
an
environmental
justice
attorney
at
the
public
interest
law
center.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
testify
today
about
this
issue,
which
very
deeply
affects
my
practice
and
the
preservation
of
green
space
in
communities
of
color
and
low-income
neighborhoods
in
philadelphia.
S
The
law
center
commends
you
for
convening
this
hearing
to
ensure
the
city's
sheriff's
sales
are
held
in
an
equitable
way,
prioritizing
the
needs
of
communities
most
impacted
by
cobit
19.
in
our
environmental
work.
The
law
center
uses
a
variety
of
methods
to
ensure
that
philadelphia's
most
vulnerable
residents
have
access
to
a
healthy,
natural
and
built
environment,
but
also
that
they
have
a
seat
at
the
table
and
a
voice
in
what
happens
in
their
neighborhoods.
The
law,
center's
garden
justice.
S
Legal
initiative
accomplishes
this
by
providing
pro
bono
legal
representation
to
urban
farmers
and
community
gardens
in
philadelphia
in
efforts
to
protect
and
preserve
the
city's
green
space,
which
is
being
lost
due
to
development
pressure.
This
development
pressure
in
part
stems
from
the
1997
securitization
of
tax
liens,
the
1997
tax,
lien
securitization
and
remaining
privately
held
liens
contribute
to
gentrification
displacement
urban
blight
and
a
reduction
in
green
space
allowing
sheriff's
office
to
proceed
without
removing
the
obstacles
caused
by
privately
held
tax.
Liens
will
further
contribute
to
these
problems.
S
This
testimony
explains
how
and
provides
potential
solutions
to
the
problem
so
for
a
bit
of
background
in
1997,
the
city
bundled
together,
30
000
tax
liens
and
sold
them
to
u.s
bank
a
private
corporation
in
order
to
raise
revenue
to
address
the
school
funding
crisis.
The
city
lost
money
in
this
effort
when
investors
were
unable
to
collect
on
many
of
the
securitized
liens,
the
philadelphia
department
of
revenue
in
the
november
2013
report
described
the
results
of
the
1997
1997
cell
as
the
worst
case
scenario
for
tax
lien
securitization.
S
Public
agencies
could
not
acquire
the
property
without
perspec,
first
paying
the
lien
holder,
the
value
of
the
lien,
plus
their
fees,
which
die
made
efforts
to
get
vacant
tax,
delinquent
properties
back
into
productive
use.
In
fact,
then,
the
city
excuse
me,
then,
chief
of
staff
to
mayor
rindell,
david
l,
cohen,
acknowledged
the
city's
miscalculation
regarding
the
uncollectible
amounts.
In
a
quote
that
appeared
in
the
2001
philadelphia,
inquirer
editorial
quote
the
writing.
The
rating
agencies
missed
it,
the
under
writers
missed
it,
the
insurer
missed
it
and
the
city
missed
it.
End
quote
the
problem.
S
The
consequences
of
the
fallout
from
the
1997
securitization
are
still
evident
today,
while
the
exact
number
is
unclear.
Data
from
the
city
estimates
that
between
3
600
and
500
properties
in
philadelphia
are
encumbered
by
u.s
bank
queens.
The
liens
on
these
properties
are
between
18
million
and
20
million,
with
the
total
debt
to
the
city
of
approximately
41
million
dollars.
Approximately
half
of
the
potential
clients
to
reach
out
to
us
for
help
in
preserving
a
garden
managed
lots
burdened
by
a
private
tax
lien.
S
The
problems
associated
with
private
bank
leans
on
a
garden
parcel
in
a
number
of
ways.
The
law
center
regularly
receives
requests
from
help
for
help
from
gardens
threatened
with
losing
parcels
to
the
sheriff's
cell,
under
normal
circumstances,
removing
a
parcel
from
the
sheriff's
own
list,
necessates
a
phone
call
to
the
appropriate
council
person's
office
and
a
subsequent
conversation
with
the
philadelphia
housing
development
corporation
or
phdc
about
acquisition
of
the
parcel
and
eventual
disposition
to
the
gardner.
However,
more
often
than
not,
we
learned
that
the
parcels
were
part
of
the
large-scale
securitization
of
1997..
S
In
these
instances,
even
with
council
support,
little
can
be
done
to
save
the
garden
as
growers
are
often
unable
to
pay
the
lien
and
the
exorbitant
fees
that
accompany
it.
This
usually
leads
to
a
developer,
purchasing
the
prop
purchasing
the
property
and
replacing
the
garden
with
luxury
housing
units.
Out
of
the
reach
of
the
existing
community,
this
dynamic
ultimately
contributes
to
a
sharp
increase
in
property
taxes
and
displacement
of
long-term
lower
income
residents.
One
such
garden
in
council
district
7
was
lost
to
a
developer
because
of
a
u.s
banking.
S
An
elderly
resident
who
used
the
produce
from
from
the
garden
to
feed
himself
had
been
caring
for
the
garden
for
many
years.
He
had
previously
reached
out
to
the
city
inquiring
about
a
title
transfer.
However,
the
presence
of
a
u.s
bank
lean
made
this
impossible.
Eventually,
a
developer
purchased
the
garden
at
a
sheriff's
sale
and
plans
to
place
it,
replace
it
with
the
luxury
condominium.
S
These
private
liens
even
make
it
difficult
for
low-income
gardeners
to
use
the
law
as
a
means
to
preserve
their
gardens
because
of
the
increase
in
gardens
being
lost
to
sheriff's
cell.
The
law
center
developed
a
training
program
to
teach
other
attorneys
throughout
the
city
how
to
represent
gardens.
Since
april
2018,
we
have
trained
hundreds
of
attorneys
interested
in
assisting
with
our
mission.
However,
large
firms
represented
on
our
list
of
volunteers
often
have
conflicts
of
interest
and
cannot
represent
clients
on
parcels
with
privately
held
tax
liens.
S
Unless
the
potential
client
is
immediately
able
to
pay
the
tax
lien
along
with
the
usually
exorbitant
interest
and
fees,
the
client
is
left
with
very
few
options
to
acquire
the
parcel
further,
because
the
lien
holder's
main
incentive
is
a
monetary
return
on
their
initial
1997
investment.
They
are
usually
reluctant
to
agree
to
even
a
short
postponement
of
the
sale
to
allow
our
clients
an
opportunity
to
raise
funds
to
purchase
the
properties
themselves.
Just
a
few
weeks
ago,
the
scenario
played
out
almost
verbatim
for
a
gardener
in
district
3..
S
This
gardener,
an
elderly
woman
who
had
been
maintaining
a
parcel
next
to
her
home
for
over
30
years,
reached
out
to
us
frantically.
After
seeing
a
sheriff's
own
notice,
post
posted
on
her
fence,
our
first
step
was
to
seek
to
postpone
the
pending
cell.
While
we
found
an
attorney
to
assist
the
client
with
following
filing
an
action,
a
quiet
title,
we
learned
quickly
that
the
presence
of
a
privately
held
bank
lean
on
the
property
presented
prevented
the
city
from
postponing
the
cell.
S
S
The
presence
of
u.s
bank
lean
significantly
impairs
the
ability
of
phdc
to
put
vacant
land
back
into
productive
reuse
as
such
long
abandoned
parcels
remain
overgrown
littered
with
trash
drug
paraphernalia
and
other
debris.
Abandoned
tax
delinquent
properties
create
a
vicious
cycle
of
blight
in
urban
areas
throughout
the
commonwealth,
with
approximately
43
000
vacant
lots,
the
problem
is
particularly
acute
in
philadelphia.
S
The
majority
of
vacant
land
in
philadelphia
is
clustered
in
council
districts.
Three
five
and
seven.
These
districts
also
have
the
highest
poverty
rates
in
the
city
on
average,
over
three
hundred
thousand
philadelphians
live
on
blocks
with
one
or
more
abandoned
houses
or
parcels.
This
large
inventory
of
vacant
land
not
only
decreases
the
value
of
neighboring
properties,
but
burdens
residents
and
local
government
as
vacant
properties,
create
significant
health
and
safety
issues,
suggested
solutions
to
mitigate
the
inevitable
and
continued
gentrification
displacement
and
loss
of
green
space,
facilitated
by
the
presence
of
u.s
bank
leans.
S
The
city
must
develop
a
short
term
short-term
and
long-term
strategy.
As
a
first
step
of
the
short-term
policy,
the
city
must
place
a
moratorium
on
sending
guarding
parcels
to
sheriff's
cell
until
it
can
ensure
that
it
has
the
ability
to
acquire
those
parcels.
If
u.s
bank
leans
are
present,
this
will
prevent
the
gardens
from
being
lost
to
developer
developers,
while
the
city
develops
a
longer
term
solution.
S
Finally,
for
gardens
able
to
pay
a
portion
of
the
u.s
bank
leans,
the
city
must
negotiate
an
easily
navigable
accessible
system
that
eliminates
penalties
and
allows
individuals
to
enter
into
payment
arrangements
for
the
principal
balance
for
the
long-term
strategy.
The
city
must-
and
I
repeat,
must
allocate
funds
to
pay
off
the
us
bank
liens
in
their
entirety.
The
estimated
total
cost
of
the
city
to
pay
off
the
us
bank
lean
balance
is
491
million
dollars.
However,
this
the
city
likely
could
negotiate
a
reduction
in
penalties
with
the
lien
holder.
S
Additionally,
while
the
exact
amount
of
u.s
bank
leans
on
garden
parcels
is
not
technically
yet
available,
the
amount
would
be
significantly
less.
Finally,
the
city
must
commit
commit
to
developing
an
equitable
property
tax
collection
system
that
does
not
include
securitizing
land
containing
community
green
space
or
real
property
that
threatens
philadelphia's
most
vulnerable
residents.
The
law
center
looks
forward
to
continuing
the
conversation
around
eliminating
private
bank
liens
on
the
city's
vacant
land,
and
we
are
happy
to
engage
and
work
the
solutions.
Thank
you
for
listening.
A
Thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
testimony.
We
greatly
appreciate
it
ebony
if
you
can
stay
around
because
we
may
have
some
questions.
If
you
can
next
person
is
john
dodds,
I
see
you
on
my
screen,
john.
So
I
know
you're
here
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
please
proceed
with
your
testimony.
Okay,
can
you
hear
me?
F
Right
very
good.
Thank
you
good
afternoon
chairwoman,
parker
and
members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
john
dodds,
I'm
the
director
of
the
philadelphia
unemployment
project
and
we
are
concerned,
as
is
council,
about
putting
share
of
sales
online,
which
we
fear
will
open
up
our
housing
market,
the
speculators
from
all
over
the
country.
This
step
needs
to
be
studied
thoroughly
before
it
is
implemented.
F
However,
I
want
to
focus
briefly
on
an
immediate
problem
facing
homeowners
in
philadelphia
with
regard
to
the
sheriff.
The
resumption
of
sheriff's
sales
in
the
city.
Pup
has
a
long
history
of
working
to
prevent
mortgage
foreclosures
for
people
who
are
caught
in
recessions
or
other
economic
issues
beyond
their
control.
F
F
This
is
particularly
concerning,
as
the
growth
of
long-term
unemployment
caused
by
the
pandemic
is
reaching
historically
high
levels
as
well
as
coming
as
well
as
the
coming
availability
in
pennsylvania
of
over
350
million
dollars
from
the
homeowners
assistance
fund,
which
was
included
in
the
american
rescue
plan.
It
is
unconscionable
for
families
to
lose
their
homes.
F
There
is
much
precedent
for
this
in
philadelphia
back
in
1983,
sheriff's
sales
were
hauled
by
president
judge
bradley,
while
waiting
for
the
passage
of
the
homeowner's
emergency
mortgage
assistance
program
in
harrisburg.
He
acted
on
a
request
from
the
then
sheriff
joe
sullivan
and
pup.
Sheriff's
sales
only
began
again
after
the
legislature,
enacted
hemap
in
december
of
1983.
F
F
F
F
We
also
asked
city
council
to
pass
a
resolution
calling
for
the
sales
to
be
halted
pending
this
program
becoming
operational,
an
additional
35
million,
an
initial
35
million
dollar
payment
to
the
state
will
be
made
available
in
june
from
the
homeowners
assistance
fund.
So
help
is
on
the
way.
There
is
no
reason
for
families
to
lose
their
homes
because
of
the
pandemic.
F
There
is
no
reason
to
rush
to
resume
sheriff's
sales
without
without
allowing
homeowners
to
avail
themselves
the
american
rescue
plan
that
was
rushed
into
place
by
the
biden
administration
to
protect
them.
We
call
for
action
by
the
sheriff
and
the
courts
to
give
people
time
to
receive
the
aid
that
is
being
provided.
A
P
Good
afternoon
chairwoman
parker
and
the
members
of
the
committee
on
law
and
government,
my
name
is
jane
island.
I've
been
invited
to
testify
on
resolution
number
two
one:
zero,
two,
nine
five.
I
am
the
supervising
attorney
of
philadelphia,
legal
assistance's,
save
your
home
philly
hotline
pla
operates
to
save
your
home
philly
hotline,
in
coordination
with
the
court
and
the
city
of
philadelphia.
P
The
hotline
serves
as
a
central
point
of
contact
for
homeowners
in
philadelphia,
seeking
legal
advice
and
information
regarding
mortgage
or
property
tax,
foreclosure
or
other
home
ownership
issues.
At
the
start
of
the
pandemic,
clay
was
able
to
seamlessly
transition
handling
remote
work
with
no
interruption
of
service.
Paralegals
on
the
hotline
continue
to
take
live.
Hot
loan
hotline
calls
without
pause.
P
Since
the
start
of
the
pandemic,
the
hotline
has
fielded
calls
for
more
than
1
000
homeowners
and
in
the
last
month
alone,
we've
handled
calls
from
about
200
homeowners,
many
of
whom
are
facing
the
loss
of
their
home.
At
sheriff's
sale,
based
on
our
conversations
with
homeowners,
we
know
that
people
are
still
struggling.
P
The
confusion
has
been
particularly
acute
for
homeowners,
who
had
a
pending
foreclosure
before
the
pandemic
hit
over
the
past
year
previously
scheduled
share
sales
have
been
postponed
multiple
times
pursuant
to
multiple
court
orders
due
to
the
pandemic.
As
a
result,
it
has
been
difficult,
if
not
impossible,
for
many
homeowners
to
figure
out
if
their
home
is
actually
listed
for
sheriff's
sale.
P
It
is
against
this
backdrop,
of
a
year
of
confusion
and
conflicting
information
that
the
sheriff
resumed
sheriff's
sales
on
april
6th.
Moreover,
as
council
is
aware,
when
the
share
resumed
sales,
they
did
so
for
the
first
time
via
virtual
platform
contracting
with
a
company
called
bid
for
assets
over
the
past
month,
the
hotline
has
received
numerous
calls
from
homeowners
confused
about
the
process
and
startled
to
learn
that
their
homes
were
scheduled
for
share
of
sale
in
april.
P
P
P
P
Our
paralegal
was
able
to
request
a
postponement
of
the
sale
on
clients
behalf
and
is
now
working
with
this
client
to
apply
for
a
low
income
payment
agreement
to
resolve
the
tax
delinquency
and
the
client
was
able
to
go
back
to
the
hospital
to
continue
receiving
her
medical
treatment.
However,
this
is
just
one
story
of
dozens
of
cases
with
similar
stories
that
we've
handled
in
the
last
few
weeks,
and
we
anticipate
seeing
the
number
of
these
calls
ratchet
up.
As
we
face
the
much
longer
sheriff's
sale
lists
of
may
and
april.
P
The
pandemic
is
not
over
about
2.7
million
homeowners
are
in
for
forbearance
or
behind
on
their
mortgage.
According
to
a
february
estimate
estimate
from
the
mortgage
bankers
association,
these
statistics
are
consistent
with
the
hotline's
experience.
Speaking
with
homeowners,
we
know
that
many
homeowners
are
still
struggling
with
the
economic
effects
of
the
pandemic.
P
P
Many
of
the
homeowners
currently
facing
sheriff's
sale
will
likely
be
eligible
for
this
fund
and
can
save
their
homes.
If
only
there
can
be
widespread
agreement
that
all
sheriff's
sales
in
philadelphia
be
postponed
for
just
a
few
more
months,
we
request
council
to
urge
the
sheriff
to
either
use
this
discretion.
To
postpone
the
sales
or
petition
the
courts
to
postpone
the
sales
to
allow
homeowners
time
to
apply
for
funds
that
could
resolve
their
mortgage
delinquency
or
tax
delinquency
and
save
their
homes
that
have
been
in
families
for
generations.
P
Philadelphia,
legal
assistance
thanks
councilmember
parker
and
the
other
members
of
council
for
providing
this
forum,
where
we
can
express
our
concerns
about
the
resumption
of
sheriff's
sales
via
virtual
platform.
In
the
midst
of
this
pandemic,
I'm
available
for
any
questions
the
council
members
may
have.
A
A
When
we
first
learned
about
this
in
a
newspaper
we
expressed
our
concern,
the
sheriff's
office
worked
with
the
office
of
the
president
scheduled
a
briefing
for
city
council,
and
one
of
the
things
we
were
told
is
that
no
owner
occupied
properties
would
be
included,
but
they
were.
How
do
we
know
how
many
or
how
frequent
that
was.
P
So
can
you
hear
me
yes,
okay,
so
I
think
so.
The
answer
is
of
a
few
months
ago
was
those
original
lists.
Those
lists
that
were
originally
on
bid
for
assets
had
numerous
owner-occupied
properties
and
that
that
was
always
the
understanding,
because
you
know,
while
there
are
some
mortgages
that
are
subject
to
a
moratorium,
that
only
applies
to
certain
kinds
of
mortgages
so
other
mortgages.
You
know
if
a
lender's
council
wanted
to
opt
in
and
proceed
to
sale
in
april
or
may
they
could
with
the
city.
P
I
I
will
give
the
city
credit.
We've
been
working
with
the
law
department
very
closely
to
try
to
identify
owner-occupied
properties,
and
you
know,
do
investigation
and
make
sure
they
don't
go
to
still,
but
it's
tricky
to
identify
what's
owner-occupied,
so
you
know,
as
as
the
list
stands
now,
we
feel
reassured
that
the
number
of
owner
of
occupy
properties
is
much
lower
than
it
had
been
thanks
to
the
thanks
to
the
city
teaming
up
with
us
to
to
try
to
make
that
happen.
P
A
So
I
want
to
thank
you
for
giving
us
the
history
lesson.
John
dodds,
oh
when
we
were
talking
with
the
sheriff
earlier
today
when
we
had
our
briefing
with
the
sheriff
and
ultimately
conversations
afterwards,
you
know
we
as
a
council,
you
know
constantly
affirm
that
we
do
not
have
the
authority
to.
You
know
in
essence
asked
the
courts
to
delay
sheriff's
sales,
and
so
we
informally
asked
the
sheriff.
You
know
before
we
even
had
this
hearing.
You
know
if,
in
fact
she
would
you
know,
ask
the
courts
for
stay.
A
The
history
not
a
stay,
a
delay
for
two
months
april
and
may
so
that
much
of
what
each
of
you
have
described
in
your
testimony,
we
could
walk
through,
but
john
dodge.
You
gave
us
a
a
history
lesson
of
multiple
occasions
on
when
sheriffs
made
a
decision
to
ask
to
share:
ask
the
courts
for
reprieve
to
make
sales.
What
what
is
your
response?
What
is
your
response
and
I'm
going
to
ask
each
of
you
the
same
question?
I
want
each
of
you
to
respond
to
this.
A
F
Obviously
it's
an
elected
official
represents
this
people
of
philadelphia
and
she
has
every
right
to
petition
the
court
to
stay
the
sales
and
that
was
done
in
in
the
80s.
It
was
done
during
the
great
recession.
John
green
stopped
the
sales
without
even
the
court,
and
the
courts
then
stepped
in
and
continued
that.
O
A
Oh
now,
you
can
hear
me
I'm
going
to
ask
you
because
it's
how
I
see
thank
you.
Councilmember
sanchez
and
oh
I'm
asking
you
because
it's
how
I
see
you
on
the
squares
on
my
screen.
What
is
your
response
jennifer
to
the
sheriff's
office,
stating
that
they
do
not
have
a
legal
reason
to
ask
the
courts
to
delay
the
sales.
A
S
P
I'll
just
echo
what
my
colleague
said:
john
walked
you
through
a
fabulous
history
that
shows
there's
precedent
for
this
kind
of
thing
to
the
to
the
extent
the
sheriff
or
the
law
department
has
advised
the
sheriff
that
there's
not
a
legal
basis.
We'd
certainly
be
happy
to
follow
up
with
them,
and
you
know
help
them
think
through
this.
P
O
Thank
you
and
I
don't
want
to
prolong
it.
I
also
want
to
thank
everyone
on
this
panel
for
waiting
and
being
so
patient
and
for
all
the
work
you've
done
all
all
over
the
years.
Yeah
a
special
shout
out
to
ebony
we've
had
this
discussion
about
the
u.s
bank
liens.
I
have
a
map
in
my
office
of
chairwoman
when
people
come
to
my
office
and
ask
me
why
I'm
against
this
stuff,
I
have
the
map
of
the
1351
properties
and
we've
lost
several
hundred
of
them
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
O
P
O
F
Can
I
just
say
that
in
the
past,
when
the
judges
have
granted
these
stays,
it
has
not
always
there
hasn't
always
had.
They
haven't
always
worried
about
proper
standing
because
they
realize
it's
a
public
issue
and
I
believe
the
city
council
were
to
come
together
on
behalf
of
the
citizens
and
the
homeowners
that
the
courts
could
be
very.
Take
that
very
kindly
and
I'm
not
an
attorney,
but
I
have
seen
it
over
the
years
that
they
are
very
have
been
willing
to
do.
F
O
And
you
know
years
ago,
the
the
the
courts,
you
know
we
had
harder
harder
conversations.
I
will
say
that
during
our
pre-diversion
diversion
conversations,
I
I've
seen
a
better
willingness
by
the
courts
to
like
work
with
us
around
some
of
these
issues,
so
I
feel
like
we're
in
a
better
place
right
now
to
be
able
to
have
those
dialogues,
and
I
look
forward
to
working
with
all
of
you
and
the
chairwoman
as
we
navigate
this.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
We,
we
thought
it
not
robbery
to
to
work
in
a
diplomatic
fashion
in
in
an
effort
to
work
with
the
sheriff
in
hopes
that
the
sheriff
in
her
office
would
in
fact
exercise
their
authority
so
that
john
dies.
We
wouldn't
have
to
worry
about
the
issue
of
standing.
There's
no
question
about
whether
or
not
the
sheriff
has
any
stand-in,
but
of
course
we
will
continue
to
work
with
our
law
department
on
our
next
steps.
A
But
if
anyone
is
questioning
well,
why
didn't
council
just
do
it,
because
we
have
an
independently
elected
sheriff
and
we
were
trying
to
work
with
that
office
in
order
to
see
this
delay
through
with
that
said,
I
want
to
thank
each
and
every
one
of
you.
I
think
council,
member,
derek
green,
had
a
question
councilman
greene,
or
was
that
earlier.
C
C
C
My
understanding
is
that
notices
still
have
to
provide
still
have
to
provide
it.
And
I
think
this
may
even
came
up
in
a
conversation
with
the
representative
from
allegheny
county.
For
my
understanding,
notices
still
have
to
provide
it
in
papers
of
general
circulation
throughout
the
city
of
philadelphia,
notices
for
sheriff's
sale
and,
and
how
is
that
occurring
now
with
the
virtual.
C
C
F
C
And
then
anyone
sheriff's
office
could
provide
that
information,
but
it
seems
that
you
know
at
one
point:
they
were
in
various
publications,
like
I
said
I
think
sunday,
sun
tribune
other
locations
now
from
this
nylon,
you're
saying
you're,
just
seeing
them
in
the
legal
and
even
the
legal
intelligence
here,
which
is
something
I
have
a
subscription
to
now.
That's
coming
virtual.
J
Thank
you
so
much.
We
are
still
advertising
in
the
two
circuit,
the
two
legal
and
circulation,
and
we
still
have
the
community
papers
because
of
the
pandemic.
The
there's
only
a
certain
amount
of
properties
going
up.
So
there's
only
certain
amount
of
money
in
the
budget
to
be
able
to.
In
the
past
they
had
went
over
the
amount
allotted
to
advertise
to
go
into
the
hole.
J
We
are
sticking
to
the
budget
so
right
now,
because
it's
only
like
10,
12
or
17
properties,
circulation
and
then
on
a
wheel,
one
of
the
community
papers,
one
or
two.
We
still
are
advertising
in
that
same
manner.
I
guess
you're
not
reading
the
a
deal
or
the
sunday
sun
or
which
one
the
metro
they're
on
the
metro
or
those
because
we're
still
on
it.
C
J
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
green,
and
thank
you
for
your
response
sheriff
below
again
to
members
of
this
panel.
Thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
testimony
and
I
do
want
to
state
for
the
record
that
we
will
be
reaching
out
to
to
each
and
every
one
of
you
about
council's
next
steps,
particularly
for
those
of
us
who
have
been
here
who
fought,
predatory,
lyndon
who
work
with
the
mortgage
foreclosure
diversion
program.
Rest
assured.
A
We
know
that
we
won't
move
without
having
each
of
you
as
our
partners,
because
you're
the
front
line
you're
the
front
line,
agencies
and
organizations
who,
when
we
can't
represent
people,
because
we
can't
represent
them
legally,
even
when
we
have
attorneys
in
our
office,
we
have
to
send
everyone
to
you
all,
and
so
we
will
keep
you
abreast
of
council's
future
actions
and
at
a
round
table
that
we
will
be
organizing
shortly.
So
thank
you.
Rachel
can.
A
So
jamie,
I
want
to
say
a
huge
huge
thank
you
to
you
for
being
here
and
being
pra
being
present
and
to
jason
powers.
Jason.
Thank
you
so
much
my
fellow
middle
neighborhood,
you
know
representative,
and
I
want
you
to
know
that
we
are
a
little
jealous
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
that
your
position
even
exists
in
cleveland,
because
we
don't
have
your
counterpart
here
in
philadelphia.
So
jamie
we're
going
to
start
with
you.
S
S
S
I
was
asked
to
talk
about
kind
of
what's
happening
with
us
in
terms
of
bulk
buyers
and
out
of
town
investors,
bulk
buyers,
destabilize
housing,
values
for
homes
being
purchased
and
nearby
homes.
They
rarely
make
investments
in
properties,
homes
become
cash
cows
and
until
their
homes
are
completely
deteriorated.
S
S
S
S
S
They
want
communities
that
are
stable
enough
to
get
800
to
1100
000
rent
and
have
a
mix
of
owner-occupied
and
rentals
and
have
incomes
of
at
least
forty
thousand
dollars
and
they're.
Looking
for
homes
in
a
middle
range
price
and
for
cleveland,
there
are
homes
between
sixty
and
a
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
dollars
and
homes
in
this
price
range
are
exactly
the
homes
that
our
low
and
moderate
income
families
can
buy.
S
Low
income.
Families
can
afford
homes
in
the
50
to
80
000
range,
and
that
would
be
like
50
percent
of
area
median
income
for
cuyahoga
county,
moderate
income.
Families
can
afford
homes
in
the
80
to
100,
000
range
and
that's
80
of
area
median
and
unfortunately,
once
homes
are
in
the
hands
of
these
buyers,
they
will
forever
be
rentals.
They
will
never
be
occupied
again.
S
All
brooklyn
cdc
is
working
with
other
non-profits
city
of
cleveland,
first
ranked
suburbs
to
find
the
best
practices
to
hold
local
property
managers
for
out
of
town
investors
responsible
in
housing
court
and
to
make
it
more
difficult
for
llc's
to
pop
properties
back
and
forth.
When
there
are
our
property
tax
delinquencies,
we
welcome
idea
solutions
to
curb
the
terrible
effects
of
rapidly
increasing
bulk
buying.
That
is
we're
seeing
on
our
community.
A
R
This
last
quality
is
a
particular
note,
as
they
make
these
communities
particularly
vulnerable
to
the
disastrous
effects
of
foreclosure
options
where
fixed
incomes,
aging
populations
and
oftentimes
simple
errors
on
payments
can
lead
to
the
loss
of
long-term
residents
and
dramatic
change
in
a
community
in
cleveland,
we've
examined
four
neighborhoods
as
targets
for
middle
neighborhood
investments
in
these
areas.
Our
research
shows
that
since
2016,
sixty
four
percent
of
foreclosure
auction
properties
were
sold
to
buyers
or
buying
groups
outside
of
the
state
of
ohio.
R
Furthermore,
eighty
one
percent
of
purchases
were
tracked
to
buyers
outside
of
cuyahoga
county.
Large-Scale
purchasing
groups
make
up
as
much
as
70
percent
of
those
buyers
and
make
no
mistake.
These
companies
are
not
interested
in
the
stability
of
our
neighborhoods
or
the
quality
of
life
of
your
residents.
They're
attracted
to
cheap
real
estate
opportunities
for
long-term
low
income,
rentals
and
limited
risk
in
their
portfolios.
R
This
is
a
particular
concern
when
understood
from
the
context
of
race.
One
of
cleveland's
middle
neighborhoods
is
87
percent
black
and
home
to
a
historically
strong
black
middle-class
community.
This
area
has
seen
weaker
home
values
since
its
development
due
to
redlining
and
continued
practices
of
discrimination
in
real
estate.
As
a
result,
homes
in
these
communities
see
less
demand
from
local
buyers
and,
in
the
last
two
years,
auctions
have
been
tracked.
Ninety
percent
out
of
state
buyers.
R
Furthermore,
our
rental
records
show
that
nearly
one
hundred
percent
of
these
properties
have
been
turned
into
rentals
occupied
by
housing,
choice,
voucher
recipients,
to
be
clear,
the
need
for
supportive
housing
options
is
very
real
and
the
housing
choice.
Voucher
program
is
an
essential
component
of
providing
housing
and
low
income
for
low-income
residents
of
our
city.
However,
the
concentration
of
low-income
residents,
combined
with
the
low
investment
corporation
model
operating
these
properties,
is
producing
dramatic
and
rapid
destabilization
in
our
communities.
This
serves
neither
the
residents
that
are
new
nor
the
community
as
a
whole.
R
Well,
while
I
clearly
urge
you
to
go
deeper
and
consider
options
to
mitigate
the
devastating
unfair
and
racist
practice
of
tax
foreclosures,
I
understand
today
we're
specifically
discussing
the
effects
of
using
an
online
auction
medium
over
the
traditional
in-person
method.
It
is
clear
that
the
devastation
occurring
in
our
communities
is
caused
by
cheap
and
easy
access
to
real
estate,
while
in-person
auctions
do
not
eliminate
the
opportunity
for
large-scale
and
out-of-state
or
out-of-country
buyers
to
intervene,
they
do
create
an
additional
hurdle
in
the
marketplace
of
foreclosure
auctions.
R
There
are
endless
cities
for
these
buyers
to
consider
those
that
provide
online
access
will
very
likely
be
more
severely
targeted.
Additionally,
the
ability
for
local
buyers,
especially
those
who
originally
owned
the
home
or
their
family,
deserve
the
opportunity
to
attend
a
local
auction.
While
online
auctions
create
ease
of
access
for
out-of-state
buyers,
they,
conversely,
can
create
a
hurdle
for
elderly
or
families
without
consistent
internet
access
in
cleveland,
we
have
seen
the
radical
effect
of
outer
state
investment
and
will
continue
to
explore
all
avenues
to
reduce
or
eliminate
these
players.
R
A
Well,
thank
you
so
very
much
both
for
your
testimony
jason.
I
want
you
to
go
a
little
deeper
for
me
and
and
and
just
give
me
like
the
profile
of
those
bulk
buyers
and
when
we
talk
about
bulk
educate
philadelphia.
If
you
will
about
you
know
how
many
properties,
when
you're
talking
about
bulk
buyers,
you
know
in
in
in
cleveland.
What
are
you
guys
looking
at?
How
many
of
you
county.
R
Yeah,
so
you
know
the
difference
between
the
bulk
buyer
portfolio
and
the
other
types
of
landlords
that,
when
the
traditional
landlord
has
a
small
portfolio,
it
can
be
a
moderate
income
family
or
an
individual
in
a
community
that
has
three
or
four
homes.
It's
their
retirement
plan.
The
bulk
buyers
have
dozens
and
dozens
and
those
are
in
different
communities,
and
then
they
go
to
hundreds
and
hundreds
throughout
the
county.
We
have
some
llc's
that
have
more
than
a
thousand
properties
in
cuyahoga
county,
but
much
more
insidiously.
R
These
properties
are
part
of
basically
a
transfer
of
income
to
a
real
estate
trust.
So
we've
tracked
some
of
these
llc's
out
of
country
to
china,
but
we've
also
tracked
them
to
texas
and
to
california,
where
wealthy
individuals
are
using
our
residential
real
estate
as
their
version
of
stocks,
they
create
a
cash
flow
incentive
for
them
by
buying
thirty
thousand
dollar
homes
and
moss.
R
R
It,
I
suppose,
creates
jobs
in
that
regard,
but
their
job
is
to
make
sure
that
everything
from
the
roof
to
the
the
windows,
to
the
paychecks
to
all
the
things
are
taking
place
at
a
bare
minimum,
just
enough
to
make
sure
that
the
home
stays
afloat
and
if
15
years
from
now
those
properties
are
gone,
they
don't
really
care
because
it's
been
about
the
cash
flow,
and
I
know
jamie
sees
this
all
the
time.
We've
recognized
that
about
20
percent
of
a
street
when
it
turns
over.
R
A
Jamie
and
jason,
I
want
you
both
to
answer
this.
For
me,
what
is
your
response
from
your
experience,
what
you
study
as
it
relates
to
best
practices
and
and
just
how
you
would
answer
if
you
were
to
hear
someone
say:
well,
wait
a
minute.
You
know
these
same
firms
that
the
gentleman
jason
powers
just
spoke
about
that
were
in
china
and
or
in
texas.
You
know
they
could
have
someone
to
represent
them
at
an
in-person
sale
and
they
could
still
buy.
You
know
how.
A
How
are
you
you
know
rationalized,
you
know:
how
can
you
affirm
your
statement,
jason
when
you
say
that
a
virtual
platform,
you
know
in
essence,
makes
it
easier
for
them.
I
mean
unpack
that
for
people
in
philadelphia
who
heard
earlier
during
testimony
that
these
people
could
buy
anyway.
So
how
can
you
blame
a
virtual,
a
platform
for
sort
of
making
a
process
move
at
a
more
rapid
pace.
S
So
the
property
management
brokerage
firm
that
we
find
so
egregious
in
our
neighborhood.
We
at
least
know
who
they
are,
and
they
have
real
estate
on
our
border
and
we
can
find
them.
So
if
we
eliminate
the
need
for
them
to
well,
we
have
eliminated
the
need
for
them
to
go
to
of
sales.
Now
somebody
from
saudi
arabia
doesn't
need
holton
wise,
they
just
can
buy
it
on
their
own
and
we
have
no
idea
who
they
are,
what
their
local
representation
is
and.
P
S
Case
this
is
something
we're
fighting
right
now
is
that
the
city
of
cleveland
won't
hold
property,
managed
local
property
managers
responsible
in
housing,
court
for
out
of
town
owners,
so
they're
just
sending
violation,
notices
to
china,
california
and
saudi
arabia,
which
is
not
helpful.
So
we
are
trying
to
provide
a
cautionary
tale
for
you
to
avoid
this
fate
of
at
least
we
know
the
devil
we're
dealing
with
in
person,
and
we
have
no
idea
who
we're
dealing
with
online.
R
So,
thank
you,
gentlemen,
I'll
underscore
what
jamie
said
that
that
first
off
by
creating
that
extra
hurdle,
you
you
do
see
them
using
proxies
and
those
proxies
are
in
our
county.
So
not
only
do
we
have
the
ability
to
follow
up
with
them
as
we
go,
but,
additionally,
as
we
create
new
laws
in
our
city
council
and
in
our
county
council,
we
are
trying
to
find
ways
to
hold
them
more
and
more
accountable
if
they
are
regionally
local.
R
A
You
know
experience
with
us-
and
you
know
we're
doing
our
best
here
in
this
city
council,
trying
to
raise
awareness
about
this
issue
in
the
hopes
that
we
can
avoid
the
pitfalls,
jason
and
jamie
that
both
of
you
just
described
so
shout
out
to
your
city,
council,
your
mayors,
your
county
officials
and
we're
going
to
let
them
know
when
we
interact
with
them
that
you
all
came
to
help
out
the
city
of
philadelphia
during
this
hearing.
So
thank
you.
A
B
A
S
S
I
serve
as
executive
director
of
ngt,
which
is
philadelphia's
land,
trust
for
the
protection
of
community
managed,
open
spaces,
and
it's
our
mission
to
acquire
and
preserve
community
gardens
to
enhance
quality
of
life
in
philadelphia's
neighborhoods,
we've
protected,
almost
50
gardens
to
date
across
the
city
and
are
working
hard
to
scale.
Our
efforts
to
meet
the
need
that
exists
to
secure
and
protect
many
additional
threatened
open
spaces.
S
Their
vibrant
community
managed
open
spaces
that
serve
as
places
of
nourishment
healing
community
connection
and
self-determination
across
the
city
and
these
essential,
safe,
healthy,
green
spaces
provide
residents
with
access
to
land
to
grow,
fresh,
affordable
food
to
gather
with
neighbors
to
mitigate
unsafe
and
unjust
environmental
conditions,
and
the
future
of
many
of
these
gardens
is
in
jeopardy
because
the
gardeners
don't
have
secure
land
tenure
and
ngt
works
with
them
to
secure
and
hold
ownership
for
the
land
long
term.
So
they
can
continue
to
cultivate
food
and
community.
S
For
a
number
of
years,
we've
seen
how
increases
in
real
estate,
development
and
speculation
are
putting
these
gardens
into
jeopardy,
and
one
of
the
biggest
threats
is
sheriff's.
Sales
often
gardens,
comprise
multiple
parcels
of
land
with
different
owners,
and
the
loss
of
even
one
parcel
to
a
sheriff's
sale
can
destroy
the
the
larger
garden.
S
S
Multiple
gardens,
however,
have
tax
delinquent
parcels
with
u.s
bank
liens,
which
is
an
issue
that
ebony
griffin
was
speaking
about
earlier.
This
factor
is
the
single
biggest
threat
and
deterrent
to
our
ability
to
save
these
gardens
because
of
these
liens
philadelphia
is
losing
garden
properties
to
share
of
sale
or
through
private
sales
entered
into
by
speculators.
S
S
At
times,
however,
we're
able
to
obtain
temporary
delays
that
allow
us
to
find
ways
to
save
a
parcel
and
the
overall
garden
through
no
fault
of
our
own.
These
temporary
reprieves
can
sometimes
come
in
at
the
last
minute
and,
if
philadelphia
switches
to
online
sheriff
sales,
we
believe
the
opportunity
to
save
a
parcel,
especially
when
it
comes
down
to
the
wire,
will
be
lost
until
the
u.s
bankling
issue
is
resolved.
S
We
we
call
on
the
city
to
halt
share
of
sales,
whether
online
or
in
person,
and
I
want
to
tell
you
about
the
five
lives
ii,
fish
garden.
As
just
one
example.
It's
a
community-based
project
to
promote
wellness
and
eliminate
information
disparities
about
health
and
nutrition
in
hestonville,
a
low-income
community
of
color
in
west
philadelphia,
where
food
insecurity
and
chronic
disease
is
high.
There
are
more
than
30
raised
beds
for
community
residents
to
grow
healthy
food
and
working
with
the
land
bank
ngt
was
able
to
secure
five
of
the
six
properties
at
the
garden.
S
However,
the
last
lot,
which
is
right
in
the
middle
of
the
garden,
has
more
than
sixteen
thousand
dollars
due
to
linebarger
for
u.s
bank
liens.
With
all
the
fees,
interest
and
penalties
and
an
additional
eight
thousand
owed
to
the
city
I
dread
the
day
we
learned
that
it's
been
sold
online
to
a
speculator
in
texas
or
china
or
new
york,
who
does
not
understand
the
value
that
this
garden
has
to
the
community.
S
A
A
K
I'm
not
sure
if
you
are
all
aware,
but
there
is
a
growing
movement
of
black
folks,
striving
to
reclaim
the
legacy
of
agrarianism
growing
food
and
living
on
the
land.
A
different
narrative
has
started
to
surface
power
being
owning
land
and
controlling
what
you
eat.
However,
a
cemetery
of
land
loss
has
been
compounded
by
escalating
real
estate
prices
in
1910.
K
Black
farmers
owned
20
million
acres
of
land,
as
many
as
80
percent
of
black
middle
or
upper
upper
middle
class
were
farm
owners.
However,
due
to
racist
policies
and
overt
violence,
fewer
than
ten
percent
of
that
land
remains
and
only
one
point.
Seven
percent
of
total
farms
are
black
owned.
This
leads
to
enormous
transfer
of
wealth
from
black
people
to
white
people.
The
total
economic
hit
to
black
wealth
from
land
loss
could
be
in
excess
of
300
billion
dollars.
K
A
significant
contributor
to
the
racial
wealth
gap
land
is
at
the
center
of
healing
for
black
and
brown
communities.
I
understand
that
many
of
you
may
not
know
the
mental,
physical
and
spiritual
impacts
that
land
in
agriculture
has
on
people's
health,
but
they
are
real.
I
assure
you
not
only
have
I
and
my
comrades
experience
these
benefits
in
our
personal
lives,
but
through
my
academic
research
at
harvard,
I
have
assessed
the
impact
of
urban
agriculture
on
the
mental
health,
spirituality
and
community
resilience
of
black
folks.
K
K
My
dad
and
his
life
were
also
inspiration
for
creating
this
organization
that
focuses
on
food
sovereignty,
carpentry
and
self,
and
community
healing
for
black
folks
in
philly.
My
dad
paul
gripper
was
an
incredibly
well-known
basketball
coach
throughout
philly
in
the
tri-state
area,
he's
known
in
the
street
streets
as
coach,
paul
or
uncle
pig.
He
showed
up
for
so
many
young
black
men
and
always
gave
his
last
resources
to
feed
his
players
or
make
sure
they
could
make
make
a
tournament.
K
My
dad
passed
away
in
april
of
last
year
due
to
systemic
racism
and
due
to
food
apartheid
so
to
honor
him
my
brothers,
my
aunt
and
I
want
to
expand
on
his
legacy
by
hosting
an
annual
memorial
tournament
in
his
neighborhood,
which
features
a
basketball
tournament,
a
cookout
and
a
community
garden
in
his
name.
We
want
to
establish
the
paul
gripper
community
garden
on
the
block
where
he
grew
up
in
north
philly.
K
K
Trash
accumulates
in
these
lots,
while
my
neighbor's
primary
nearby
food
source
is
a
corner
store
that
sells
mostly
fast
food
and
little
to
no
fruits
and
veggies.
These
lots
could
and
should
be
used
for
community
growing
spaces
for
our
neighborhood.
We
are
already
struggling
to
complete
compete
with
local
developers
in
an
inefficient
land
bank.
Expanding
share,
sale
online
will
make
it
just
about
impossible
for
my
family,
who
has
been
on
this
block
in
north
philly,
since
the
40s
to
compete
with
developers
and
investors
and
continue
our
legacy
on
this
block.
K
K
K
We
already
have
to
compete
with
local
developers
and
investors
who
buy
property
for
the
sake
of
profit.
Over
people's
well-being
just
think
about
how
much
harder
it
would
be
on
community
folks,
if
we
then
have
also
had
to
compete
with
out-of-state
and
out-of-country
developers
and
investors,
data
shows
that
141,
gardens
and
farms
have
already
been
lost
in
the
city,
many
of
which
have
been
sold
through
share
of
cell.
K
At
the
most
recent
virtual
share
of
sales,
around
eight
gardens
were
listed
for
sale,
most
of
them
had
u.s
bank
liens
further
complicating
the
process
to
prevent
them
from
being
sold.
The
land
bank
was
set
up
for
community
reuse
of
land
every
spring
many
lots
drop
into
sheriff's
cell,
particularly
those
with
u.s
bank
liens.
The
only
process
we
have
is
the
land
bank
intervening
at
the
actual
at
the
actual
sale,
which
is
already
incredibly
flawed.
K
Q
Hi,
I'm
katrina
baxter
thanks
again
for
this
opportunity
to
testify
when
we
first
won
land
back
land
bank
legislation.
I
had
just
started
working
at
the
public
interest
law
center
and
my
colleagues
and
city
folks
had
convinced
me
that
this
was
going
to
be
a
bridge
between
the
community
and
the
city
and
that
this
would
help
restore
the
faith
that
the
community
had
with
regards
to
city
and
land.
Q
Meanwhile,
I
consistently
met
elders
in
the
community
who
told
me
that
I
was
wrong
that
they
had
seen
these
things
consistently,
not
panned
out
for
us,
and
now
I
know
that
this
is
and
now
I
know
this
is
in
the
land
bank
situation
today
right.
But
what
we
are
talking
about
is
the
inability,
the
continued
inability
of
black
people
to
access
land
and
the
resources
that
we
need
to
thrive
and
create
enterprise
for
ourselves
today
is
about
the
continuing
continued
disenfranchisement
of
black
people.
Q
Q
Despite
advocates
asking
for
more
front
door
opportunities
and
more
transparency,
the
land
bank
law,
stating
that
there
should
be
a
majority
of
gardens
in
the
city,
particularly
in
black
communities,
have
no
front
door
to
access
land
for
growing
food.
So,
in
this
scenario,
even
when
the
land
bank
is
not
given
priority,
how
much
more
will
this
affect
black
farmers?
Q
Today?
I
heard
at
least
four
more
layers
of
complications
for
growers
to
get
access
to
land
over
and
above
racial
discrimination,
so
over
seven
years
that
we've
been
attending
hearings
on
land
use
and
asking
for
more
transparency
and
better
access
each
time
we're
placed
in
the
last
of
these
groups
like
today,
each
time
this
categorization
reminds
us
just
how
little
this
city
values
our
black
farmers.
Q
So
we
keep
pushing
and
we
keep
getting
erased
and
the
power
dynamics
it
seems
of
something
that's
really
greedy
with
all
we
are
trying
to
do,
is
feed
people
and
make
a
living
when
black
people
are
offered
the
same
opportunities
as
others
to
determine
their
future.
That's
when
we'll
stop
fighting,
we
would
ask
that
there'll
be
a
moratorium
on
the
sale
of
gardens
again
we're
asking
this
city
to
permanently
remove
garden
parcels
on
the
list
that
we
gave
them
three
years
ago.
You
heard
from
our
colleagues
earlier
today
that
there's
been
a
ramp.
Q
Up
of
you
know:
share
sales
because
of
u.s
bank
leans.
Over
the
last
few
years,
we've
been
actively
working
against
that
and
trying
to
there's
a
list
of
the
gardens
that
we
know
that
need
to
be
protected,
that
the
city
has
access
to
we're
asking
to
take
those
lists
off
of
this
sheriff's
sale.
Take
it
and
put
those
in
moratorium
until
we
can
create
solutions
for
our
folks
to
have
front
door
to
have
front
door
access
to
that.
Q
Q
I
don't
know
if
you
all
know
that,
but
as
we
sit
here
and
discuss
land,
you
know
it's
a
it's
a
fitting
conversation
right,
but
we're
not
outdoor
selling,
we're
not
outside
celebrating
we're
inside
I'm
here
on
my
zoom,
with
all
your
lovely
folks
for
hours
now,
but
instead
I'm
trying
to
I'm
choosing
to
honor
land
by
standing
up
here
and
saying
that
black
land
displacement
and
land
loss
have
been
harming
black
communities
for
decades
in
this
country.
Since
the
beginning
of
of
our
history.
Q
Here
we
cannot
celebrate
earth
day
without
centering
black
freedom
and
liberation.
Black
communities
are
disproportionately
vulnerable
to
climate
hazards.
They
live
closer
to
toxic
webs,
I'm
sorry
toxic
waste
sites,
as
well
as
impacts
from
hurricanes
and
flooding.
It
is
not
only
policing
in
prisons
by
a
climate
crisis,
but
a
climate
crisis
that
attempts
to
cut
black
life
short,
so
justice
for
black
communities
and
communities
is
a
key
pillar
for
building
a
regenerative
and
a
sustainable
future
for
black
farmers
and
black
farmers
are
a
huge
part
of
making
a
sustainable
future.
A
Q
K
This
speaks
to
the
right
of
all
people
to
have
access
to
food,
but
in
order
for
that
to
happen,
we
must
have
access
to
the
land.
Senator
booker
has
stated
overtly
discriminatory
and
unjust
policies
have
robbed
black
families
in
the
united
states
of
the
ability
to
build
and
pass
on
intergenerational
wealth.
When
it
comes
to
farming
and
agriculture,
we
know
that
there's
a
direct
connection
between
discriminatory
policies
and
the
enormous
land
loss
we
have
seen
among
black
farmers
over
the
past
century.
Q
Right
and
so
earlier,
we
heard
the
sheriff's
office
say
that
sales
that
these
sales
they
had
sales
that
will
enable
neighbors
the
sales
online
would
enable
neighbors
to
purchase
the
lots
on
their
blocks.
But
that
is
really
case.
We
know
that
there's
no
real
historic
precedent
that
shows
the
city
that
city
supports
community
purchase
of
land,
much
less
gardens
and
farms.
The
public
feels
that
the
truth
is
that
that's
the
truth
and
that's
evident
the
community
is
now
being
prioritized.
Q
I
think
we
heard
that
over
and
over
again
earlier
today
as
well
right,
the
urgent
pace
at
which
the
the
sheriff's
office
is
moving.
This
process
online
feels
deeply
troubling,
as
this
is
a
flawed
process.
Buying
process
period
is
bypassing
community
members
concerns
it's
ignoring
the
harms
that
many
have
raised.
Q
Moving
sheriff's
sales
online
will
exasperate
the
existing
systemic
issues
of
the
process
that
this
the
processes
that
dispute
disproportionately
impact
black
and
brown
community
members
who
are
currently
seeing
their
neighborhoods
change
overnight
bid
for
assets
had
said
in
their
website
that
the
benefits
of
moving
online
would
be
the
drastic
increase
of
bidders
per
sale.
Maximizing
proceeds,
as
well
as
the
proposed
efficiency
of
the
system,
but
maximizing
proceeds
at
the
expense
of
black
and
brown
residents,
is
just
the
same
profit
over
people.
Q
The
testimony
of
the
sheriff's
office
was
compelling
saying
there
are
many
avenues
for
community
to
engage
the
sale
process.
However,
we
know
this
story
neglects
the
actual
facts
on
the
ground.
I
know
just
recently
three
people's
grandparents
who
lost
their
their
homes
through
sheriff's
sales,
and
this
is
with
enacting
the
power
to
petition
and
the
sale
and
with
also
legal
assistance.
So
let
me
give
you
a
little
bit
of
a
personal
story.
Q
They've,
been
they
boast
a
community
center,
they
have
a,
they
have
a
burgeoning
farm
to
table
restaurant
and
there,
and
they
also
have
the
community
farm
right.
So
one
art
has
been
has
been
also
a
hub
for
community
commerce,
so
they
provide
space
for
entrepreneurs,
black
entrepreneurs
who
are
not
allowed,
who
not
be
able
to
get
space
in
other
places
elsewhere.
Q
So
there
was
no
notification
posted
and
the
only
time
we
found
out
is
when
the
developer
walked
up
onto
the
property
and
realized
that
there
was
a
farm
here
with
chickens
and
and
a
beautiful
horse
and
people
gathering
around.
And
he
said
I
own
the
lot
right
in
the
middle
of
where
we
have
been.
We
have
been
congregating
for
years
and
so
now
the
process,
the
process
thickens
right,
there's
two
other
and
we
found
out
that
two
other
lots
were
sold
as
well,
so
three
lots
were
sold
out
of
the
lots.
Q
They've
been
they've,
been
shared,
they've
been
working
and
stewarding
for
over
20
years,
and
these
lots
were
supposedly
put
to
the
side
in
the
land
bank
for
community
reuse,
for
them
specifically
to
be
able
to
purchase.
So
in
the
meantime
they
were
sold
off
and
currently
because
the
situation
is
so
complicated.
Q
We
still
have
no
resolution
for
that.
For
that.
For
that
scenario,
even
when
the
developer
was
clear
that
he
was
willing
to
make
that
he
was
willing
to
make
a
deal
and
go
somewhere
else,
there's
still
not
a
process,
there's
still
been
some
kind
of
complication
with
them
being
able
to
access
that
land
right.
So
now
our
communities
have
long
been
growing
as
a
means
to
become
self-reliant
and
resilient
and
to
the
shocks
of
our
global
system.
Q
The
sheriff
said
that
there
were
no
properties
on
this
list
that
our
own
owner
occupied,
I'm
sorry
owner
occupied
the
idea
of
owner
occupied.
We
think
it's
too
narrow,
so
in
reality,
gardens
and
green
spaces
are
occupied
by
the
community,
though
that
doesn't
show
up
on
on
a
list
somewhere
on
a
computer
screen
right.
They
play
a
critical
role
in
our
neighborhoods.
They
we're
feeding
our
residents
with
fresh
organic
produce
a
year
ago
when
grocery
store
shelves
were
empty
and
people
found
their
stores
boarded
up.
Q
Q
Q
We've
been
working
really
hard
to
gather
community
input,
data
and
stories
to
develop
a
set
of
recommendations
that
the
city
can
clearly
work
towards
again
we're
asking
that
the
city
protect
our
black
farmers,
while
you
figure
out
this
process
by
place
by
placing
a
moratorium
on
community
farms
and
gardens
right
now
and
make
moves
to
permanently
remove
garden
parcels
from
the
sheriff's
cell
list,
recognizing
that
we
will
be
providing
the
city
with
a
sec
with
a
set
of
recommendations.
This
fall
that
will
outline
a
community
informed
process
for
gardens
designed
to
prioritize
community
members.
Q
A
A
Thank
the
three
of
you,
so
very
much
for
your
testimony
and
for
affirming
how
the
of
cells
moving
to
a
virtual
platform
will
impact
the
preservation
of
community
gardening,
particularly
while
we
are
in
the
midst
of
what
you
described
as
the
first
and
historic
urban
ag
strategic
plan
for
the
city
of
philadelphia.
So
I
want
to
thank
you
for
that.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
your
work
and
thank
you
for
hanging
in
ashley.
A
I
don't
know
paul
gripper,
but
listening
to
you
talking
about
your
family's
history
in
north
philadelphia,
since
the
40s
and
his
commitment
to
young
people
was
extremely
moving,
but
for
you
and
katrina
I
have
to
push
back
on
something.
You
all
said
that
really
moved
me
the
wrong
way,
and
that
was
you
said
where
you
were
in
this
hearing-
wasn't
lost
on
you
and
that
you
were
last.
A
Let
me
I
just
have
to
right,
because
now
I
want
you
to
know
how
hard
my
team
has
worked
to
cross
the
t's
and
dot
the
eyes
to
make
this
happen,
and
that's
max.
So
excuse
me
to
make
this
hearing
happen
this.
This
is
the
final
panel,
because
you
are
in
order
by
the
time
that
we
were
in
contact
with
you.
A
You
know
leaders
of
this
land-based
joints
with
you
a
thousand
and
one
percent.
Looking
forward
to
the
urban
ag
strategic
plan.
I
know
all
of
my
colleagues
are
to
see
how
we
can
be
supportive
of
you,
but
I
gotta
push
back
on
that
one
for
the
record,
because,
where
you
are
placed
in
no
way
shape
or
form
affirms
how
we
value
your
perspective
and
your
contribution
to
this
discussion.
So
that's
important
to
me.
A
I
now
want
to
recognize
my
colleague,
councilmember
catherine
gilmore
richardson,
and
I
don't
can't
remember
if
it
was
ashley
or
kartrina
who
said
that
it
wasn't
lost
on
you
all
that
this
was
earth
day,
so
this
conversation
was
appropriate.
Well,
we
know
that
is
earth
day,
because
our
colleague
councilwoman
catherine
gilmore
richardson,
took
the
lead
during
our
session
today
up
to
remind
folks
and
several
of
our
council
members
on
our
earth
day
today
and
of
their
own
meaningful
away
so
councilwoman
catherine
gilmore
richardson.
E
I
rise
to
say
thank
you
to
the
panelists
from
panel
five,
who
are
really
community
garden
leaders
and
leaders
in
this
space,
particularly
jenny,
jenny.
I
think
you've
been
with
us
all
day,
you've
been
with
us
since
we
talked
about
the
the
resolution
honoring
and
recognizing
our
community
garden
leaders
for
their
stewardship
and
service
on
the
occasion
of
earth
day
and
to
katrina
and
to
ashley
and
everyone
on
this
panel.
E
We
are
continuing
to
deal
with
food
access
and
food
insecurity,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
what
we've
experienced
with
covet
19,
and
you
are
correct
in
that
the
farmers
were
helping
us
to
ensure
we
received
fresh
fruits
and
fresh
vegetables
that
we
were
giving
out
all
across
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
community.
Gardens
really
have
allowed
us
to
address
a
number
of
challenges
that
we're
facing
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
by
creating
safe
community
driven
green
spaces,
where
residents
can
grow
fresh
and
nutritious
food
where
they
gather
right.
E
It's
a
gathering
spot
it's
a
common
ground
of
our
neighbors
and
for
our
community
members,
where
we
all
can
partake
in
not
only
physical
activity
of
the
skill
building
for
our
community.
So
I
just
wanted
to
thank
this
panel,
in
particular
for
your
work
and
for
your
service
and
jenny
for
being
with
us
all
day
on
the
council
session
and
then
for
this
hearing.
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair.
A
Thank
you,
council,
member
gilmore
richardson,
and
we
appreciate
you
your
leadership
in
this
council,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
the
environment,
climate
change.
You
know
and
again
making
sure
we
didn't
forget
that
today
is
earth
day
and
we
needed
to
lift
that
up.
Chair
now
recognizes
council,
member
isaiah,
thomas
ashley.
You
heard
me
mention
that
I
didn't
know
paul
gripper,
but
I'm
proud
to
say
that
we've
got
a
council
colleague
who
does
know
him
well,
council.
Member
thomas,
are
you
still
with
us
yep.
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
appreciate
you
and
I
too
appreciate
the
testimony
of
the
witnesses
and
I'll
start
by
thanking
ashley
and
still
offering
my
condolences
to
her
family,
based
on
what
happened
to
who
we
used
to
call
uncle
p
paul
gripper,
a
great
guy
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
madam
chair.
If
we
were
in
a
position
when
mr
gripper
unfortunately
passed
away
last
year
to
be
able
to
pass
a
resolution
in
his
honor,
we
would
have
because
his
work
was
that
significant.
G
But
we
were
at
this
stage
of
things
where
we
were
still
trying
to
figure
out
legally
what
we
were
able
to
introduce
and
what
we
weren't.
And
if
you
remember
last
spring,
when
the
coronavirus
crisis
first
hit,
we
could
not
introduce
resolutions.
We
could
only
introduce
legislations
that
spoke
to
a
state
of
emergencies,
but
seeing
ashley
here
today
and
thinking
about
the
great
work
that
her
father
has
done
in
her
and
his
son
joey
is
kind
of
carrying
that
torch
right
now
last
I
talked
to
him.
G
He
was
coaching
that
cop
and
state
that
was
before
the
pandemic.
I
don't
know
if
he's
still
there
or
not,
but
I
heard
ashley
speak
about
her
and
her
brother
looking
to
to
carry
that
torch
and
continue
that
legacy,
so
that
just
warms
my
heart
in
the
midst
of
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we
heard
today,
that
wasn't
necessarily
good
news.
That's
great
to
hear-
and
I
did
want
to
offer
my
support
to
her
and
her
family.
G
G
I
know
she
talked
about
this
advocacy
and
she
mentioned
my
former
colleague
at
sankofa
malaika,
who
I
had
the
pleasure
to
work
with
for
years
together,
and
I
know
her
advocacy
her
family
advocacy
through
the
one
art
establishment,
which
I
believe
is
in
council
member
jones
district
and
the
great
work
that
they're
doing
out
there.
So
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
and,
most
importantly,
pay
homage
to
former
coach
gripper
and
ump
and
madam
chair.
G
Maybe
we
should
revisit
that
resolution
now
that
we
are
able
to
actually
do
that.
Thank
you
for
the
time
I
appreciate
it
and
I
agree
with
madam
chair
you.
You
are
not
at
all
at
the
bottom
of
the
totem
pole
as
it
released
to
your
advocacy,
your
work,
and
I
could
tell
you
firsthand
that
your
testimony
touched
my
heart
and
it
would
be
something
that
I'll
remember.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
A
A
H
All
right
there,
I
am
thank
you
so
much.
Madam
chair.
I
wanna
thank
ashley
for
sharing
your
story
too
about
land-based
drawings,
your
family's
time
on
your
block
and
the
great
history
of
black
farmers
in
the
city
and
how
racist
policies
have
shifted
generational
wealth
away
from
black
farmers.
Your
testimony
in
honor
of
your
father,
coach
paul,
is
inspiring
to
me
and
I
look
forward
to
co-sponsoring
the
resolution
in
his
honor
and
I
look
also.
H
I
look
forward
to
working
with
you
and
katrina
to
pursue
a
moratorium
on
gardens
to
help
create
green
space
that
honors
your
father's
block
in
north
philadelphia
and
also
katrina.
Thank
you
for
the
work
that
you've
done
for
years
to
map
community
gardens
and
urban
agriculture
strategic
plan,
and
I
hear
your
urgency
and
I
hope
we
can
continue
to
work
together
to
highlight
the
community
efforts
to
preserve
black
and
brown
gardens
and
farms
you,
some
of
you
guys
already
know.
H
I
have
like
a
mini
passion
for
farming
and
gardening,
and
I
was
looking
to
expand
and
grow
that
whole
concept.
But
I
know
that
I
can
continue
my
work
with
you
guys
and
do
it
in
a
different
capacity,
maybe
further
away
from
home,
but
we're
in
this
together.
So
I'm
really
excited
to
actually
continue
to
work
with
my
stepfather,
who
did
urban
farming
and
gardening
in
in
our
neighborhood.
A
D
I
also
just
want
to
speak
to
some
of
the
frustration,
and
you
know
this.
This
hearing
has
been
a
real
investment
and
I
want
to
thank
the
the
chair
and
the
sponsor
of
the
resolution
for
just
you
know,
extending
this
amount
of
time
to
it,
and
it's
unfortunate
that
it's
taking
you
know
the
kind
of
the
impending
nature
of
these
map,
potentially
mass
sheriff's
sales
to
to
restart
this
conversation
again.
D
But
we
we
hear
your
frustration,
we
we
we
are
going
to
exercise
as
much
as
we
can
and
we
just
want
to
know
that
you'll
have
partners.
No
matter
what
what
moves
forward
so,
thank
you
all
so
much
for
being
on
here
and
for
staying
with
it
with
this
hearing,
in
particular,
we're
just
really
incredibly
grateful
for
you.
C
As
your
testifying
it
made
me
really
reflect
on
a
phenomenal
book
by
isabel
wilkerson,
the
warmth
of
other
sons
and
the
great
migration
african-americans
over
the
history
of
this
country.
Many
people
in
this
city
have
strong
connections
to
north
carolina,
and
that
was
a
a
migration
point.
Just
like
virginia
to
new
york
or
mississippi
to
chicago
philadelphia
became
the
home
of
many
north
carolinians.
C
I
was
at
meridian
bank,
so
the
work
that
you're
doing
and
your
testimony
really
speaks
to
the
history
and
the
lineage
in
this
city
of
farming,
especially
black
farming,
and
then,
when
you
tie
that
to
the
loss
of
economic
wealth.
Something
is
also
very
poignant
to
me,
because
I
have
done
a
significant
amount
of
research
on
the
history
of
the
loss
of
black
farms
across
the
southeast
part
of
this
country,
especially
as
many
people
were
forced
off
their
land
through
legal
dynamics
and
others.
So
thank
you
for
your
testimony.
C
Thank
you
for
your
work
and
look
forward
to
continuing
the
conversation
as
well
as
continuing
work
as
we're
working
with
our
colleague,
councilmember
gautier
regarding
community
land
trust.
So
thank
you
for
being
here
and
providing
that
point,
especially
on
a
day
like
today's
earth
day
and
shows
the
connection
that
african-americans
have
had
to
this
concept
of
sustainability
and
investment
in
the
earth.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
green.
I
don't
see
any
other
questions.
I'm
gonna
ask
if
there
are
any
other
questions
for
this
panel
and
or
comments
hearing
hearing,
none
again,
jenny,
ashley
and
katrina.
Thank
you
all
so
very
much
for
for
being
here
rachel.
The
next
two
people,
I
believe,
are
joseph
tan
and
adam
ehrlich.
Joseph
will
be
again
with
you.
A
If
you
could
just
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
feel
free
to
proceed
with
your
testimony,
and
I
think
our
technical
team
has
given
you
the
ability
to
show
your
screen
when
I
was
reading
your
testimony
last
night,
I
said
wow
thank
you
for
investing
the
time
and
even
put
it
putting
them.
You
know
it
together
in
slides.
L
L
L
Okay,
great
so
I'm
a
pennsylvanian
resident
who
who
who
lives
right
outside
philadelphia.
I've
been
a
an
individual
local
investor,
who's
been
investing
in
philly
for
almost
10
years.
I've
been
to
the
auctions
in
person,
and
I've
tried
to
use
the
bid
for
assets
in
the
last
two
auctions,
so
my
experience
using
fit
for
assets
was
frustrating
and
it
mirrors
that
of
councilwoman
brooks
experience
with
it.
L
L
Philadelphia
is
by
far
the
largest
city
by
volume,
and
it
has
the
highest
fees
at
10
for
tax
sales
and
1.5
percent
for
foreclosure
sales,
and
the
next
two
points
I
like
to
make
are:
are
these
given
given
the
high
fees
involved?
If
you
look
at
the
projections
using
2017
numbers
from
the
revenue
commit,
commissioner
bid
for
assets
would
have
received
2.4
million
just
from
tax
sales,
and
I'm
estimating
that
bid
for
assets
will
receive
over
four
million
dollars
in
fees
from
tax
and
foreclosure
sales.
L
If
this
were
to
continue
for
for
the
current
year-
and
I
think
I
think
it
was
mentioned
in
in
the
sheriff's
testimony
earlier-
that
in
in
2019-
I
believe
it
was
they-
they
had
about
60
million
in
in
sales
total.
So
part
of
that
I
understand
to
be
foreclosure
sales,
which
would
have
a
lower
fee,
but
it
will
definitely
be
in
the
millions
that
bid
for
assets
will
be
we'll
be
receiving
in
fees
if
this
were
to
continue.
L
L
The
the
sheriff's
office
has
stated
that
using
bid
for
assets,
it's
a
win-win
for
everyone,
because
they're
saving
money
from
from
holding
auctions
in
person
by
using
the
the
website
and
that
only
the
buyers
are
paying
the
the
buyer's
premium
fee,
but
that's
not
entirely
correct.
So
what
the
the
sheriff's
office
hasn't
made
clear
is
that
the
cost
is
now
transferred
to
the
property
owners
who
are
losing
their
homes.
L
Like
every
buyer
investor,
I
determine
how
much
I
want
to
pay
for
a
property
based
on
all
the
costs
and
because
now
there's
an
additional
10
percent
fee
for
tax
sales
and
1.5
for
foreclosure
sales,
I'm
going
to
set
up
a
lower
price
because
of
that
additional
fee.
So
this
this
means
that
the
homeowners
will
recover
less
at
the
end.
L
So
if
bit,
four
assets
collects
over
four
million
dollars
per
year,
that
means
homeowners,
indirectly
will
be
losing
four
million
dollars
per
year.
So
you
know
if
the
city
were
to
select
a
vendor
to
do
this,
would
they
really
be
willing
to
select
a
vendor
and
pay?
Four
million
dollars
a
year
for
for
that
vendor
to
perform
this
function
and
if
the
city
isn't
okay,
with
that,
why
is
it
okay,
for
this
cost
to
be
shifted
to
the
homeowner
homeowners
who
are
losing
their
homes
now?
L
The
last
point
I
like
to
present
is:
is
the
real
cost
for
using
bid
for
assets?
Now
I've
submitted
an
article
for
the
hearing
for
a
county
that
contracted
with
fit4
assets.
Last
year,
lake
county
california,
in
the
article
they
state
that
the
contract
was
for
two
hundred
sixty
thousand
dollars
per
year
to
to
have
bid
for
assets,
perform
their
auctions
for
for
their
tax
sales.
L
A
Thank
you
so
very
much
for
being
here.
Joseph
and
again,
I
thank
you
just
for
the
time
you
put
into
preparing,
not
just
your
testimony,
sharing
it
with
us,
but
also
the
research
and
the
article
that
you
found
for
us
that
will
help
us
as
we
as
the
council
gather,
to
figure
out
what
our
next
steps
will
be.
So
thank
you
so
very
much
adam.
Are
you
still
on
with
us
adam.
L
A
L
My
name
is
adam
ehrlich,
I'm
the
president
and
chief
problem,
solver
of
trading
policies
llc
and
I'm
here
to
testify
on
resolution
number
two
one:
zero,
two,
nine
five,
just
a
little
background
on
me,
I'm
a
philly
guy
born
and
raised.
I
have
a
lot
of
pride
in
my
city
and
I'm
happy
to
be
doing
whatever
I
can,
in
my
part,
to
help
sustain
and
improve
the
city
of
philadelphia
in
an
ethical
and
responsible
manner.
L
I
started
participating
in
sheriff's
sales
back
in
2012
and
it
is
my
belief
that
from
2013
through
2019,
I've
been
the
largest
purchaser
based
on
the
number
of
properties,
not
total
value
of
the
properties,
but
I've
been
the
largest
purchaser
of
vacant,
land
and
properties
in
general,
at
tax
sale
and
before
everyone
starts
booing
at
me.
I
would
like
to
make
clear
that
a
matter
of
principle
and
personal
moral
code.
I
have
never
evicted
a
single
person
in
philadelphia
or
anywhere.
L
My
number
one
criteria
when
deciding
whether
or
not
I
want
to
bid
on
a
property
is
to
the
best
of
my
knowledge.
Is
this
an
owner-occupied
property
and
when
it
is,
I
either
avoid
the
sale
or
back
when
properties
were
cheap
enough
used
to
get
things
cheap
enough
to
then
offer
them
back
to
the
homeowners
to
allow
them
an
opportunity
to
get
their
houses
at
a
severely
discounted
between
taxes,
water.
All
the
liens
are
on
there
that
if
I
could
go
and
help
somebody
maintain
their
properties.
L
That
was
most
important
for
me.
For
me,
it's
not
about
trying
to
make
the
most
money.
You
always
can
it's
about
trying
to
do
the
right
thing
whenever
possible
and
I've
been
lucky
that
I
found
a
nice
little
niche
that
it's
possible
to
make
money
while
doing
the
right
thing.
If
you
care
to
do
so,
which
which
I
do
I
don't
have,
let's
see,
I've
also
created
around
40
to
50
first
time,
homeowners
in
the
process,
especially
back
when
properties
were
on
the
cheaper
end.
L
You
know
properties
used
to
sell
for
twenty
five
hundred
dollars
and
for
me
to
help
somebody
who
didn't
maybe
have
credit
didn't
necessarily
know
about
the
process
to
help
people
maintain
houses
in
their
community
was
something
that
I
found
that
I
was
able
to
go
and
do
and
was,
in
my
opinion,
a
very
good
service.
I
I'm
never
going
to
put
grandma
out
on
the
street.
I
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
the
process
that
could
be
helped.
L
I
could
be
changed,
but
for
me
that
method
was
by
going
into
the
process
and
participating
on
the
buyer
side.
I
will
say
that
one.
My
first
big
issue
is,
I
can't
imagine
if,
at
the
live
sheriff
sales,
if
there
was
a
35
35
cover
charge
to
get
in
and
if
you
went
and
you
told
the
participants
showing
up
if
you
didn't
pay
us
35
in
advance,
you're
not
allowed
to
participate
in
the
auction
right
now
in
order
to
participate.
L
Now
that
creates
tons
of
problems
first
of
all,
for
people
who
don't
have
a
lot
of
disposable
income,
taking
that
1535
and
tying
it
up.
When
you
don't
know
if
you're
gonna
buy
any
properties
or
not
is
a
financial
burden.
If
there
are
four
different
sales,
they
want
you
to
make
four
different
deposits.
That's
now
six
thousand
dollars
and
change
just
to
show
up
and
be
able
to
participate
and
that
35
dollar
number
is
really.
You
have
to
make
three
different
deposits
in
order
to
actually
finish
and
complete
a
sale.
L
So
that's
an
extra
105
dollars
which
bid
for
assets
takes,
I
think
they
say
to
defer
their
costs
but
they're
going
to
make
millions
and
millions
on
this.
So,
to
put
that
extra
barrier
to
entry,
that's
something
with
all
the
money
they're
making
they
should
be
able
to
absorb
in
order
to
go
and
help
making
this
accessible
to
more
people.
L
Also,
if
bid
for
assets,
wants
to
go
and
run
chair
sales
in
philadelphia,
they
really
should
have
a
presence
in
philadelphia
right
now
in
order
to
go
and
get
money
to
silver
strings
maryland.
You
know,
and
that
takes
more
time,
if
you
know
a
lot
of
people,
if
you
don't
have
the
financial
literacy
to
wire
money.
L
To
I
mean
a
lot
of
people
show
up
to
share
sales
with
money
orders
instead
of
cashiers
checks,
because
they
don't
have
the
accounts
necessary
to
get
the
necessary
money
orders
and
getting
a
wire
transfer
is
significantly
more
it's
a
harder
process,
much
more
costly.
In
addition,
all
the
fees
charged
by
bid
for
assets
financial
institutes
usually
will
charge.
You
know
25
dollars
per
wire.
L
Now,
that's
just
I
mean
that's
just
a
tip
tip
of
it.
I
mean
10
premium
that
they're
charging
for
real
estate
is
insane
in
any
measure,
any
property
auction.
10
I
mean
I
mean
on
all
real
estate
that
sold
to
tax
sales.
I
can't
even
imagine
that
and
part
of
the
reason
that
number
is
high
is
it
doesn't
really
appear
that
anybody
was
advocating
for
the
cost
is
always
just
assume.
L
Oh
those
buyers,
they
can
just
spend
more
money,
it
doesn't
matter
but,
as
was
brought
up
as
a
very
valid
point
that
takes
away
from
how
much
we're
willing
to
spend
on
a
property-
and
that
means
less
money
to
the
city
to
cover
the
taxes
and
ultimately
less
money.
If
there's
any
money
left
over
for
those
people
who
are
losing
their
properties,
I
think
bid
for
assets
should
have
an
ok
location
in
philadelphia
where
someone
could
come
in
person
and
make
a
deposit
and
not
have
to
do
those
wiring
fees.
L
L
Let's
see,
I
would
go
and
say
I
I
missed
part
of
the
earlier
questions,
but
I
would
want
to
make
sure
that
that
10
percent
nobody's
getting
any
kickbacks
is
any
of
that
money
going
to
this.
If
it's
going
to
the
sheriff's
office
directly,
are
they
allowed
to
receive
any
more
money
than
just
poundage
that
they
would
normally
go
and
collect
at
the
auctions?
And
then,
if
individual
people
are
going
and
getting
these
funds,
I
mean
that's
obviously
a
whole
another
avenue
of
issues
that
would
need
to
be
addressed.
L
Let's
see,
there
is
an
issue
with
how
well
with
the
sales.
First
of
all,
you
don't
know
who's
the
winning
bidder,
part
of
participating
in
a
live
sale.
Was
you
had
an
opportunity
to
meet
all
of
the
other
philadelphia
residents
who
were
there
and
participating
in
the
other
developers,
which
meant
you
got
to
hear
about
other
projects?
You
got
to
go
and
learn
about
more
things
happening
in
the
city
and
that
is
useful
to
go
and
make
sure
that
people
developing
in
certain
areas
can
try
to
complement
and
help
each
other.
L
Whenever
is
necessary
right
now,
when
there's
a
winning
bid,
you
get
a
whole
bunch
of
stars.
You
have
no
idea
who
won
that
property.
I
know
that
if
I
had
a
vacant
lot
and
a
pro
the
lot
next
door
went
up
for
too
much.
You
know
for
too
much
money.
I
could
physically
walk
to
that
person
and
say
hey.
I
have
the
property
next
door
to
yours.
If
you're
trying
to
do
a
project,
I'm
the
person,
I'm
your
neighbor
and
you
know
maybe
we
can
collaborate.
Maybe
I
can
help
you
out
now.
L
There's
no
means
for
me
to
know
who
the
winning
bidder
was,
and
I
don't
think
you
can
even
go
onto
the
website
for
more
than
a
month
to
even
see
what
sale
prices
were,
who
the
winners
were
at
least
on
the
philadelphia
sheriff's
site.
You
could
go
and
want
a
property
sold.
You
would
have
a
record,
a
historical
record
of
who
the
winning
bidders
were,
what
those
prices
were.
L
Unfortunately,
when
the
new
administration
took
over,
it
appears
as
though,
all
that
historical
information
from
sheriff
joel
williams
term
was
erased
or
moved
or
some
way
on,
not
accessible,
but
going
forward
and
we'd
love
to
see
that
back,
but
also
going
forward.
That
should
be
public
information.
L
You
can
have
people
bidding
where
it's
you
have
no
idea
who
the
bidders
are
they
people
are,
they
corporations,
are
they
local?
Is
it
foreign
countries
etc?
I
right
before
the
sale
started.
I
actually
contacted
jesse
from
a
bid
for
assets,
because
I
had
a
ton
of
questions
and
concerns
and
I
actually
spoke
to
them
for
around
two
and
a
half
hours
on
a
zoom
conference
discussing
a
whole
bunch
of
issues.
L
I
first
of
all.
I
completely
agree
with
everything.
That's
that
soil
generation
said
very,
very
important
about
the
gardens
and
as
a
participant
in
those
line,
barger
6000
sales.
I
know
that
tons
of
these
lots
have
come
up
for
sale.
One
thing
that
I've
done
is
help
those
homeowners
try
to
acquire
those
lots
whenever
possible.
For
example,
there
was
a
first
speaker
in
this
panel
was
supposed
to
be
a
woman
named
aviva,
who
is
from
the
arts
and
humanities
the
village
for
arts
and
humanities.
L
They
have
mosaics,
set
up
all
throughout
the
city.
You
might
be
familiar
with
the
secret
gardens
on
south
street,
but
if
you
travel
into
north
philly
on
alder
street
on
10th
street,
there
are
a
whole
bunch
of
these
artwork
installations
available
to
the
public
for
free
out
on
their
property.
When,
in
2017
by
error,
a
couple
of
their
lots
were
sold
at
sheriff
sale.
L
I
made
a
point
of
acquiring
them
solely
to
make
sure
that
the
organization
was
able
to
get
them
back
and
through
that
process
was
able
to
get
those
sales
canceled
and
have
them
get
those
properties.
More
importantly,
has
everyone
seen
concrete
cowboy?
Yet
you
know
having
to
do
with
the
horse
tables
and
urban
riders
up
on
fletcher
street.
It's
a
movie
that
came
out
of
netflix
and
it
highlights
the
black
cowboys,
who
have
been
there
for
around
130
plus
years,
and
one
of
the
issues
is
they've,
never
owned
land
of
their
own.
L
Since
then,
I've
acquired
about
half
of
fletcher
street
solely
to
make
sure
that
developers
don't
come
and
build
on
those
properties,
and
I
wish
the
city
had
a
way
to
step
in
and
secure
these
properties
for
them,
but
as
a
community
member,
seeing
that
this
was
definitely
a
flawed
part
of
the
process
wanted
to
make
sure
that
I
could
go
and
do
my
part.
One
thing
that
for
people
saw
the
movie
might
not
know
is
that
those
horses,
you
know
which
they
go
and
they
feature
they're
featured
at
the
barnes
foundation.
Documentaries
in
this
movie.
L
Just
recently,
the
city
of
philadelphia
tore
up
all
of
fletcher
field,
and
I
have
photos
which
I
submitted.
Unfortunately,
I
don't
know
how
to
share
these,
but
the
land
that
those
horses
that
were
featured
in
the
movie
used
to
run
around
was
taken
away
from
them.
Even
though
I
and
many
people
wanted
to
get
historical
designations
wanted
to
go
and
make
sure
that
black
culture
was
understood
and
preserved
right
now,
and
then
they
go
and
they
have
animals
and
goats
and
chickens
and
they
go
and
yeah.
T
L
A
L
Okay,
well
so
anyway,
I
want
to
say
one
of
the
issues
with
the
online
share
sale
process
is
a
lot
of
the
information
is
incorrect
on
city
records
right
now,
part
of
the
share
of
sale
process
before
retail.
They
would
make
an
announcement.
This
property
has
been
demolished.
This
property
is
imminently
dangerous.
This
one
is
unsafe,
share
cell
does
sheriff's
office,
never
gives
out
information
that
they
don't
need
to
everything
that
they
provide.
L
They
are
legally
obligated
to
do
and
won't
tell
you
anything
else
right
now,
with
the
last
sale,
there's
a
property
I
was
interested
in,
and
I
did
my
research,
but
it
was
at
2368
north
colorado
street.
When
I
did.
When
the
list
came
out,
there
were
no
violations
on
the
property
on
april
6
ellen.
I
turned
this
into
an
imminently:
dangerous
property,
from
no
violation.
Similarly,
dangerous.
There
was
no
notification.
The
bidding
one
of
the
reasons
bidding
goes
up
a
lot
higher
for
these
online
sales
is
people
don't
know
the
properties
are
demolished.
L
People
don't
know
that
they
have
these
conditions
because
they're
not
presented
as
they
are
legally
obligated
to
do,
which
is
a
huge
issue.
Now
a
lot
of
times,
the
the
what
you
would
do
is
you
put
up
a
deposit
and
if
you
had
to
lose
that
deposit,
which
happened
a
lot
because
there
was
something
wrong,
some
issue
with
the
sale,
you
lose
your
deposit,
but
you
move
on
with
your
life.
The
way
bid
for
sale.
Has
it
set
up.
L
A
It
off
adam
I've
been
more
I've
been
more
more
than
generous
adam
with
the
time
just
because
you
guys
hung
around
with
us
all
all
day
today,
but
we
still
have
a
group
of
folks
who
are
scheduled
to
give
us
public
testimony
and
they
are
on
waiting
as
well.
So
what
I
am
going
to
ask
you
to
do
adam
is
any
additional
comments.
I'm
gonna,
let
you
complete
your
testimony
with
two
sentences
right
now
and
then
anything
additional
that
you
want
to
add
to
the
record.
A
L
Bid
for
assets
is
a
hot
mess
and
you
know-
and
I
would
love
to
see
in
pert
there's
so
many
reasons
to
have
it
in
person
and
I
will
be
more
than
happy.
This
is
my
contact
information.
I
invite
anybody
from
the
process,
any
city
council
to
reach
out
to
me
where
I
can
give
any
additional
information
about
the
minutia
issues
with
the
property
they
don't
have
tracts
of
assets.
A
A
Are
there
any
other
comments
or
questions
from
members
of
the
committee?
Okay,
hearing,
none?
We
will
now
move
into
our
public
testimony
portion
of
the
hearing,
adam
and
joseph
you
can
disconnect.
This
is
where
individuals
who
caught
my
office
to
sign
up
to
testify
will
be
dialed
into
the
hearing.
So
we're
going
to
take
a
brief
few
minutes
of
recess
to
give
our
technology
professionals
some
time
to
connect
the
individuals
who
signed
up.
A
I
I
do
want
to
note
for
the
record
as
we're
getting
ready
to
work
to
do
this,
that
sandra
camacho
or
camacho.
I
hope
I
did
not
mispronounce
your
name.
We
have
been
attempting
to
reach
you
non-stop,
but
unfortunately
no
one
is
answering
so
I
just
want
to
let
you
know
that
we've
been
trying
to
reach
you
we're
now
going
to
take
a
quick
break
and
give
our
tech
team
the
time
to
do
what
they
need
to
do.
Thank
you
so
also
very
much
for
your
patience.
N
N
A
Thank
you
so
very
much.
We
are
now
in
our
public
testimony
portion
of
this
hearing
rachel,
I'm
going
to
ask
that
you
please
call
the
first
individual
who
signed
up
to
speak.
I
also
want
to
note
for
the
record
that
public
testimony
is
limited
to
two
minutes.
Thank
you.
So,
all
so
very
much
for
your
patience
and
for
just
staying
and
making
yourselves
available
for
this
hearing
rachel.
N
Good
evening
my
name
is
sam
and
I'm
an
african-american
female
millennial
who
is
currently
in
pharmacy
school
at
usp.
Over
one-third
of
philadelphians
are
millennials,
so
approximately
528
000
millennials
live
in
philadelphia.
We
represent
the
largest
generational
cohort
in
the
city.
I
mentioned
this
because
not
one
did
I
hear
any
council
member
mention
how
these
properties
can
benefit
us
as
a
millennial.
N
Not
only
do
I
live
in
these
areas,
I'm
aware
of
the
struggle
philadelphians
face
during
these
times,
however,
I
represent
those
millennials
that
will
rebuild
our
community,
be
the
first
in
our
families
to
have
home
and
business
ownership.
We
will
be
that
generation
that
will
renovate
those
vacant
homes
and
rebuild
our
hood.
We
are
the
generation
that
invests,
have
better
opportunities
than
our
parents
and
have
the
higher
rate
of
graduating
from
college.
We
have
investment
plans
and
we
can
receive
funding
for
homes.
N
Madam
chair
parker,
you
established
a
program
part
of
your
business
at
tcp
to
help
new
business
owners
to
receive
assistance.
Ninety
percent
of
students
at
tcp
are
millennials
and
generation
z.
So
why
insist
is
when
obviously
right
now,
you
don't
want
to
hold
us
back
from
owning.
I
guarantee
you
more
than
90
of
the
panel
members
today
went
to
college
and
have
the
same
mindset
that
I
have
now
to
graduate
to
start
a
career
and
to
own
their
own
home.
N
I
work
eight
to
12
hour
shifts
at
rite
aid
pharmacy,
I'm
here
now
about
to
administer
my
dinner
shop.
So
I
don't
have
free
time
when
I
discovered
the
sheriff
office
was
taking
an
innovative
route
to
virtual
cells.
I
was
pleased
with
my
community
finally
growing
with
times
and
accommodating
the
younger
generation
who
have
proven
to
be
the
generation
of
change.
I
was
ecstatic
to
know
that
I
can
try
and
find
my
first
home
in
the
comfort
of
my
house
or
the
convenience
on
a
phone
or
laptop
at
work
or
school
council
member
guardiere.
N
You
stated
that
the
citizens
didn't
know
how
to
use
this
virtual
site
and
the
manual
was
confusing.
You
know
why,
because
nine
times
out
of
ten
they
weren't
millennials,
they
were
older
citizens
who
failed
to
learn
or
advance
to
technology.
Millennials
were
raised
on
the
internet,
we
learned
from
the
internet,
so
we
support
technology
as
a
millennial.
I
represent
progression,
innovation
and
effectiveness.
This
city
council
committee
has
been
established
since
1951
only
a
few
years
ago,
elected's
first
millennial,
council
members.
N
How
are
you
here
to
understand
community
needs,
protect
the
public
interest
and
to
ensure
we
are
all
treated
fairly.
If
you
do
not
hear
from
the
millennials
who
take
up
majority
of
the
city
council
member,
you
name
every
scenario:
these
properties
could
go
for
low
income,
housing,
community
parks
and
non-profit
organizations,
but
not
once
mentioned
a
millennial
who
just
graduated
or
has
successful
business
to
own
these
properties.
A
N
I
just
want
to
let
you
guys
know.
Madam
chair:
our
millennials
are
professionals,
entrepreneurs,
investors
and
realtors
we're
hard
workers
who
have
the
funds
to
purchase
their
first
home
or
business,
so
give
us
the
opportunity
to
bid
on
properties
through
a
platform
that
we
millennials
knows
best
the
internet.
The
internet
is
powerful
and
it's
not
going
anywhere.
N
B
B
N
A
N
N
With
my
situation
as
a
landlord,
I
sold
two
properties
february,
2020
february,
the
7th
and
february
the
27th
two
properties
that
were
generational
wealth
that
was
slated
to
go
to
two
of
my
children
and
gave
the
city
over
eighty
thousand
dollars,
and
that
was
february.
Six
months
later,
they
lost
and
misplaced.
Fifty
thousand
didn't
know
where
it
was,
and
I
was
told
when
I
called
in
to
try
to
pay
licenses
that
they
were
going
after
two.
N
More
of
my
property,
so
I
stood
to
lose
four
properties
that
I
had
since
1993
and
2007
within
one
year,
and
all
of
my
properties
are
generational
wealth.
So,
as
a
small
black
brown
business
person
in
city
of
philadelphia,
we
only
represent
2.5
percent
of
the
business
population,
yet
we're
50
of
the
city
population
and
when
these
decisions
are
made
and
we're
not
considered
bad
things
happen,
and
it
creates
a
ripple
effect,
so
it
was
only
the
sheriff's
office
that
was
able
and
willing
to
help
me
during
this
time.
N
I
think
it
was
june.
Last
year,
june
july
august,
I
was
calling
just
about
everybody.
I
didn't
call
you
cherelle,
but
I
called
a
few
others,
I'm
not
going
to
mention
the
name,
but
no
one
was
able
or
willing
to
help
me.
It
was
blouse
authors
who
actually
put
me
in
touch
with
the
proper
people
and
stop
my
sheriff's
sales.
I
also
want
you
all
to
know
that
it's
that
the
sheriff's
sale
is
the
end
product
or
reward
of
the
bigger
problem
that
keeps
going
on
with
property
owners
losing
their
property.
A
B
I
A
A
I
My
name
is
jihad
ali
I'm
here
to
testify
on
resolution
210295,
I'm
a
member
of
the
african-american
real
estate
developers
group
good
afternoon
good
evening,
councilmember
parker,
and
thank
you
for
having
this
hearing
and
good
evening
to
all
the
other
council
members.
I'm
here
to
answer
one
question
that
you
had
several
questions
in
the
resolution
on
page
two
in
the
second
paragraph
and
one
question
was:
how
will
the
online
sales
process
impact
local
non-professional
bidders?
I
do
like
the
online
sales.
I
think
the
sheriff
did
a.
I
I
think,
that's
an
initiative.
That's
one!
That's
timely.
I
think
I
do
like
the
disclosure
requirement
for
the
owners
and
llcs
and
all
the
comments
that
were
made
about
the
owners
of
vacant
properties.
Sometimes
and
vacant
lots
is
hard
to
find
them.
So
all
communities
are
concerned
about
that.
I
think
one
thing
one
tweak
that
I
had
would
have
is
on
the
listing
that
they
were
separated
by
zip
codes,
because
zip
codes
is
another
way
that
they
could
separate
as
a
separate
line
item.
I
I
think
the
issue
about
bank
transfer,
the
transfer
of
funds
document,
was
difficult
to
find
on
that
site
and
also
there's
a
15-day
hold.
Should
you
not
win
a
bid,
there's
a
15-day
hold
on
those
funds?
I
think
that's
successes
and
I
think
that
if
the
issue
is,
if
we're
trying
to
encourage
brown
and
brown
black
and
brown
people
developers
or
homeowners
to
bid
on
properties,
the
ten
thousand
dollar
requirement
per
bid
is
could
be
excessive.
I
It
seems
like
there
could
be
a
way
that
they
could,
if
you're,
not
if
you're,
not
the
successful
better,
they
could
roll
that
over
into
something
else.
So
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
tweaks
that
could
happen,
but
I
do
want
to
say
before
I
close
that
I
think
the
sheriff
bella
is
dedicated
as
as
dedicated
as
public
servant
as
the
sure
from
allegheny
county,
and
I
think
that
she's
only
as
good
as
her
team
and
to
hear
her
deputy
sher,
her
deputy
sheriff
to
talk
about
the
way
that
they
chose.
I
This
firm
didn't
leave
me
a
a
sense
of
confidence.
I
think
the
attorney
I
think
I
agree
with
the
council
member,
the
council
member
that
said
that
he
was
he
was
upset
at
the
tone
of
the
thing,
and
I
would
agree
with
that,
and
I
think
that
the
testimony
of
mr
dobbs
was
outstanding
and
I
think
he
answered
the
question
for
the
sheriff
attorney.
I
A
A
N
N
Who
then
put
me
in
touch
with
wanda
daniels
from
the
constituent
department
of
the
sheriff's
office.
I
had
encountered
a
large
factor
company
who
attempted
to
conduct
a
sheriff
sale
on
my
small
business
office
as
well
as
my
small
business
bank
accounts
during
a
pandemic,
and
this
was
last
year.
I
had
not
received
ppp
funding
or
anything,
and
so
I
was
definitely
appreciative
of
the
services
that
were
provided.
N
The
constituent
services
department
quickly
intervened
and
that
was
wanda
davis,
who
quickly
intervened
and
asked
appropriate.
Questions
allowed
me
to
know
what
my
protection
rights
were,
and
so
at
this
point,
because
of
it,
I
was
able
to
delay
anything
happening,
and
my
now
my
case,
where
it
was
turned
down
at
the
city
level,
is
now
being
reviewed
at
the
supreme
court
of
pa
level.
To
have
the
factor
company
prove
that
I
owe
the
money
that
I
I
have
paperwork
to
prove
I
do
not.
N
A
Thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
testimony
of
miss
sanford
and
you
and
I
can
agree
on
something
that
wanda
davis
is
awesome
and
she
spent
her
life
doing
her
best
to
help
people.
So
I
agree
with
you
wholeheartedly.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
rachel.
The
next
person
scheduled
to
testify
emmanuel
bessie.
A
N
N
So
when
the
old
lady
down
the
street
can't
afford
our
taxes,
the
city
petitions
the
court
to
take
the
old
lady's
property,
a
judge
says
okay
city
of
philadelphia
says
you
want
me
to
take
her
property,
I'm
going
to
take
her
property
for
the
taxes
that
you
say
she
owes.
She
can't
pay,
the
judge
tells
sheriff
a
lot
judge.
Sarah
palau
take
that
lady's
property
and
sell
it
sheriff.
Allow
who
campaigned
on.
I
don't
like
sheriff's
sales.
I
want
to
stop
sheriff
sales.
N
We
shouldn't
have
sheriff's
cells,
who
campaigned
on
us
and
one
says
to
the
judge:
judge
there's
a
pandemic.
Can
I
delay
it?
The
judge
says:
okay
delay.
It
goes
to
him
again.
Can
I
delay
it?
Can
I
delay
it
so
for
over
a
year
the
sheriff
delays,
the
judge's
orders?
The
judge
finally
says:
hey
the
city
who
raised
the
taxes
on
the
old
lady
who
now
made
water
and
gas
that
that
the
old
lady
has
to
pay
part
of
taxes
that
they
can
take,
that
old,
lady's
property
because
she
can't
pay
water.
N
N
This
hearing
is
not
about
not
taking
the
old
lady's
property,
it's
about
the
process
in
which
we
take
that
old
lady
properly
and
what
I'm
so
disappointed
in
city
council
is
that
because
you
guys
have
such
much
potential,
this
hearing
shouldn't
be
about
how
we
take
that
lady's
property,
it's
about
how
we
not
not
let
it
go
to
the
judge,
the
order
to
be
taken
in
the
beginning.
Can
we
have
hearings
on
that.
A
N
All
right,
so
I'm
going
to
close
with
the
two
additional
state
without
saying
this
this
this
this
meaning
was
confrontational,
combative
because
of
the
leadership
of
this
meeting
it
didn't
have
to
be
confrontational,
combative.
We
don't
have
to
comment
a
black
woman
who's
trying
to
do
her
job,
who
actually
said
that
I'm
campaigning
to
run
to
stop
sheriff.
Can
you
imagine
if
a
bank
goes
to
court
and
tries
to
sue
the
city
for
her
delaying
it
for
false
reasons.
A
B
I'm
I'm
a
a
homeowner
in
southwest
philadelphia
and
19142,
and
I've
been
able
to
through
the
old
system
of
sheriff's
sale,
purchase
a
couple
of
the
lots
that
were
next
to
my
house
for
for
pretty
cheap
price,
and
it
was
a
pretty
simple
system
where
I
would
walk
in
there
with
the
money
order
in
my
pocket,
and
I
could
bid
on
a
property.
That's
right
in
my
neighborhood
now,
which
I'm
growing
vegetables
on.
B
So
one
of
the
one
of
the
young
people
in
my
neighborhood
saw
saw
me
working
in
my
my
new
garden.
He
said
how
did
you
do
that?
How
did
you
get
into
the
sheriff
cell?
So
I
wanted
to
show
him
how
to
get
through
the
system,
and
so
I
started
to
research
it
about
the
virtual
system
and-
and
I
found
that
I
felt
that
it
was
kind
of
restrictive
in
the
fact
that
you
you
can't
just
show
up
to
the
auction
anymore.
B
You
have
to
really
be
prepared
at
least
a
week
in
advance,
get
the
1500
deposit
in
there
and
and
now
you're.
Not
just
competing
against
people
in
the
neighborhood,
but
you're
competing
against
you
know
could
be
somebody
in
japan.
That's
that's
bidding
on
these
lots
and
while
the
city
might
be
getting
more
money,
it's
not
necessarily
going
to
help
the
neighbors.
B
Dilapidates,
so
I
think
that
the
philadelphia
people
should
should
be
the
the
priorities,
and
I
think
that
the
access
and
the
ease
of
of
going
into
the
system
and
being
able
into
the
building
and
being
able
to
bid
on
things
was
was
actually
more
accessible
for
for
people
in
the
community.
Thanks
for
hearing
my
testimony.
A
Thank
you
so
much,
mr
miller
and
mr
miller.
Just
for
the
record.
I
want
you
to
know
when
you
bring
up
that
philadelphia
preference.
I
want
you
to
know
that
we
were
thinking
along
the
lines
of
you,
and
so
we
asked
our
law
department
to
give
us.
You
know
a
an
opinion
about
whether
or
not
we
had
the
ability
to
do
that,
because
we
were
trying
to
figure
out
how
we
incentivized
this
for
philadelphians
and
we'll
make
sure
we
make
the
the
ruling
up
public.
B
A
E
Thank
you
so
much.
Madam
chair,
I
just
wanted
to
say
thank
you
so
much
for
your
leadership
in
this
hearing
today,
as
a
one
of
the
two
first
millennials
on
philadelphia
city
council,
I
just
wanted
to
thank
you
for
your
leadership
and
how
you
have
given
us
the
opportunity
to
really
listen
to
and
think
through
the
challenges
around
the
share
sale
process
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
So
I
just
wanted
to
say
thank
you
and
I'm
looking
forward
to
the
follow-up
that
we
will
do
in
this
body.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank.
A
C
A
Thank
you
so
much
councilmember
green
there
being
no
further
questions
from
members
of
the
committee
or
no
other
witnesses
to
testify.
I
will
ask
if
there
is
anyone
else
present
in
this
hearing
whose
name
we
have
failed
to
call
and
that
wishes
to
offer
testimony
on
a
resolution
being
considered
today.
A
Hearing
none.
I
want
to
thank
each
and
every
one
of
the
panels
and
the
witnesses
for
their
participation.
Today.
I
want
you
to
know
we
value
all
of
your
opinions
to
our
stenographer
you
you
know,
we've
been
here,
we've
been
here,
but
guess
what
michelle
murphy
is
our
stenographer
and
our
city
council,
technical
staff,
lonnie
and
modesto
and
channel
64..
A
You
all
worked
late.
Today
you
were
johnny
on
the
spot.
We
didn't
miss
a
beat.
No,
you
know
technical
difficulties.
We
don't
get
through
this
without
you.
I
also
want
to
say
thank
you
to
all
of
my
colleagues
for
those
of
you
who
are
interviewing
audience.
You
will
notice
that
there
were
several
colleagues
who
stayed
with
them.
A
You
know
throughout
the
day
who
are
not
members
of
the
law
and
government
committee,
but
you
saw
members
of
city
council
present
here
today,
because
moving
shared
sales
to
this
virtual
platform
is
an
issue
of
great
concern
for
all
members,
all
17
members
of
our
city
council
of
philadelphia.
So
I
want
to
give
a
wholehearted
and
heartfelt
thank
you
to
all
of
my
colleagues
for
their
questions
and
comments
and
participation.
Today,
I'm
going
to
close
where
jihad
ali
left
off
and
jihad
ali
said
you
are
only
as
good
as
your
team.
A
You
know
this
is
what
the
well
organ
organized
hearing
looks
like
with
the
tabs,
and
all
of
that
comes
from
my
team,
and
I
just
need
to
say
I
love
each
and
every
one
of
you
and
I
thank
you
all
so
very
much
for
your
efforts.
City
council
will
gather
as
a
legislative
body.
We
will
work
with
our
law
department.
A
We
will
work
with
the
sheriff's
office,
we
will
work
with
the
courts,
but
we
will
keep
you
posted
on
our
next
steps
as
it
relates
to
this
issue.
I
might
be
dreaming,
but
I'm
hoping
I'm
gonna
wake
up
tomorrow
or
get
a
call
and
someone's
gonna
tell
me
that
what
we
are
all
hoping
occur-
and
that
is
a
delay,
particularly
until
the
american
rescue
act
dollars
delivered
to
the
state,
makes
it
to
philadelphia
that
we
get
a
delay
in
the
share
of
sales.
A
If
that
does
not
happen,
council
will
be
exploring
its
next
steps
and
guess
what,
when
we
do
it,
we
won't
do
it
in
a
silo.
We
won't
do
it
in
a
vacuum.
We
will
make
sure
every
stakeholder
as
many
community-based
organizations
and
individuals
as
possible.
The
viewing
public
that
means
you
philadelphians
at
home
that
you
know
about
our
efforts.
We
won't
work
in
isolation
with
that
being
said.
This
concludes
the
public
hearing
of
the
committee
on
resolution
of
on
the
committee
of
law
and
government
on
the
resolution
210295.