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From YouTube: Congressman Evans, AG Shapiro Testify before Council on Racial Disparities in Home Lending 3-29-2018
Description
From the hearing of Philadelphia City Council Committee on Legislative Oversight held Thursday, March 29, 2018 City Hall, to hear testimony on the following item:
180150 Resolution authorizing the Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold hearings examining racial disparities in home lending, also known as modern-day redlining, in the City of Philadelphia.
Testimony:
Dwight Evans, U.S. Representative, 2nd Congressional District
Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania Attorney General
A
A
What
I
like
to
do
is
Thank
You
chairman
for
convening
this
very
important
hearing
on
Housing
and
banking
and
lending
practices.
Those
discriminatory
practices
are
happening
in
Philadelphia
frankly
and
around
the
nation.
This
morning,
I
like
to
provide
you
some
insight
from
a
federal
perspective
on
what
the
problem
is
and
how
we
can
fix
it.
A
Unfortunately,
if
you
look
at
the
problem
of
predatory
lending
and
urban
areas
across
the
nation,
you
can
draw
a
straight
line
from
the
1950s,
as
America
began,
to
integrate
to
the
modern-day
problems
of
redlining,
predatory
lending
and
other
harmful
banking
practices
to
have
a
disproportionate
impact
on
blacks
and
other
minorities.
I
don't
have
to
tell
you
that
this
is
a
big
problem
in
our
city
as
renters
make
up
50%
of
our
households
according
to
the
national
Low
Income
Housing
Coalition.
A
Predatory
loans
are
those
that
are
not
based
on
the
borrower's
ability
to
repay
the
loan,
but
more
on
the
equity
in
the
market.
Some
examples
of
predatory
lending
include
loan
flipping
equity,
skimming
bait-and-switch
tactics
in
charge,
services,
credit
insurance,
packaging.
At
the
federal
level,
the
Congressional
Black
Caucus
has
produced
a
document
which
I
recommend
entitled.
A
A
We
have
a
lot
to
lose.
We
have
advanced
solutions
in
the
21st
century
for
the
black
community.
Our
answer
was
then,
and
now
that
we
are
facing
up
to
the
faith
based
on
that.
In
my
experience,
I
offer
a
few
ideas,
build
strength,
middle
neighborhoods,
which
you
know
I
have
an
awful
lot
of
experience
with
mr.
A
chairman,
because
in
the
neighborhood
that
I
built
fundamentally
I
demonstrated
the
people
that
you
could
do
things
in
West,
Oakland,
Mount,
Ayr,
Roxboro,
Wynn,
Phil
Overbrook
in
all
of
those
communities
which
are
vulnerable
to
decline
without
a
comprehensive
approach
to
affordable
housing
support
the
community,
don't
development,
finance
fund,
the
CDFIs
which
support
housing
and
other
activities
and
low-income
communities.
When
we
invest
in
CDFIs,
we
are
making
a
commitment
to
improve
capital
access
and
promote
greater
economic
activity.
If
you
allow
me,
mr.
A
chairman,
I,
wanted
to
take
a
few
minutes,
because
when
I
had
a
conversation
with
you
offline
that
was
prior
to
the
budget
settlement
that
we
did
in
Washington
and
I,
don't
want
you
to
take
that
budget
settlement
lightly,
because
that
budget
himself,
even
though
people
have
a
way
of
focusing
on
the
president,
that
budget
settlement
was
a
huge
housing
boom.
For
example,
Community
Development
parkland
Brock
grant
300
million
new
and
additional
dollars.
Now,
that's
not,
as
my
logic
excited
mr.
chairman.
A
You
think
that
300
million
is
coming
directly
to
your
district,
but
that's
across
the
entire
country.
I've
had
a
conversation
with
mr.
angler
from
the
mayor's
office,
and
we've
talked
about
that
CDFIs
we
increased
CDFIs,
there's
been
an
increase
in
that
there's
been
an
increase
in
the
homes
program,
so,
in
other
words,
as
I
listened
to
your
testimony,
Mr
Speaker
we
have
in
the
budget,
passed
the
budget
for
the
first
time
that
people
can
document
and
see
that
there's
a
increase
in
housing.
A
So
we
need
to
be
clear
that
there's
resources
and
I've
heard
you
talk
about
the
resources,
but
it's
now
there's
resources
available
and
how
you
and
this
body
decides
in
the
our
DS
that,
at
least
from
the
federal
perspective
is
moving
in
the
right
direction.
We
work
to
strengthen
the
new
market
tax
credit
that
is
also
an
area
that
has
been
pH
fi
Pennsylvania
Housing
Finance
will
also
be
able
to
do
more.
So
if
you
take
that
combination
with
pH
fi,
ph
f
a
will
do
with
with
CDFI,
we
can
move
some
direction.
A
Expanding
expand,
use
of
the
low-income
housing
tax
credit,
which
has
helped
housing
to
low-income
families
of
Philadelphia.
In
effect,
bert
capital
to
underserved
regions,
require
the
office
of
the
controller
of
the
currency,
which
is
part
of
the
Treasury.
Department
took
two
conditions
for
FinTech
Charter
conformational
applications
demonstrated
with
compliance
and
truth
and
lending,
which
is
also
something
very
important.
A
The
Block
Grant
I
just
described
to
you
about
the
increase
in
Block
Grant.
That
hasn't
happened
in
almost
ten
years,
but
I
want
you
to
understand
this.
That
was
a
collective
effort
by
all
of
the
members
in
the
Democratic
caucus
I,
though
little
politics
into
you
with
the
collective
leadership
of
Nancy
Pelosi,
who
also
voted
for
and
all
the
members
of
the
Congressional
Black
Caucus.
It
was
that
leverage
not
so
much
because
of
the
Trump
administration,
because
those
of
us
recognize
urban
America
has
a
seat
at
this
table.
So
I
stressed
that
to
you.
A
A
And
finally,
let
me
give
you
an
example
of
what
we
are
up
against
in
Washington
with
GPO
control,
why
we
should
go
out
and
vote
in
every
election
every
week
that
we
in
Washington,
when
we
called
in
session
the
Financial
Service
Committee,
which
has
oversight
by
ranking
member
Maxine
Waters,
basically
fundamentally,
is
fighting
the
idea
of
not
moving
in
the
opposite
direction.
On
the
dodd-frank.
A
You
mentioned
that
when
it
comes
down
to
it
that
they
are
trying
to
move
in
the
wrong
direction,
Maxine
Waters
who's
from
California
fights
very
diligently
on
the
element
of
not
moving
in
that
direction,
so
I
will
quickly
analyze.
One
of
those
house
are
five.
Forty
five,
forty
five
a
bill
that
I
voted
against
the
bill.
Supporters
say
that
this
gave
the
banks
and
other
financial
institute
a
right
to
appeal.
Adverse
findings
by
regulatory.
A
That
in
reality
is
thinly
veiled
attempt
to
avoid
the
law
put
in
place
to
force
banks
to
be
accountable
to
their
borrowers.
The
reality
is
that,
as
long
as
the
GOP
controls
we
have
to
deal
with
these
bills
like
this
was
well
funded.
Wall,
Street
supporters,
I
promise
you
to
continue
to
fight
to
increase
access
to
affordable
housing,
fight,
predatory
lending
and
promote
economic
Commonwealth
in
our
great
city.
So
I
say
to
you,
mr.
chairman,
by
you
conducting
this
hearing.
A
Poverty
is
at
twenty
six
percent.
One
hundred
ninety
five
thousand
people
are
in
poverty.
West
Philly
particularly
has
more
poverty
than
any
other
section
in
this
particular
district.
We're
trying
to
work
on
that
with
in
terms
of
support
of
the
promises,
so
I
think
what
you're
hearing
working
with
the
Attorney
General,
who
is
here
and
things
that
we're
doing
that
say
that
we
can
put
a
coalition
together.
That's
function,
it's
not
gonna
happen
overnight.
So
I
want
to
tell
anybody.
A
B
C
Name
is
Josh
Shapiro
I'm,
the
Attorney
General
of
the
Commonwealth
of
Pennsylvania,
and
it's
good
to
be
here
with
my
friend
congressman
or
chairman
Evans,
always
always
chairman
to
me
and,
of
course,
my
former
colleagues
Kenyatta
Johnson
Cheryl
Parker
and
Councilwoman
Brown
and
mr.
chairman.
Thank
you
for
hosting
this
important
hearing.
I
can't
recall
as
Attorney
General
ever
testifying
before
this
body
and,
in
fact
very
rarely
testify
in
public
session
about
the
work
we're
doing
but
I'm
here
today
because
of
the
importance
of
this
issue
of
redlining
and
I.
C
Think
the
importance
of
speaking
out
on
it
and
appreciating
the
fact
that
this
body
is
highlighting
the
issue
and
I'm
glad
to
have
that
opportunity
to
talk
with
you
today.
I
think
we're
all
aware
that
earlier
this
week,
Linda
Brown
the
plaintiff
in
Brown
versus
Board
of
Education
passed
away.
Brown
stated
in
a
nutshell
that
we
must
desegregate
with
all
deliberate
speed
but
I
think
it's
clear.
While
that
represented
real
progress.
Brown
did
not
end
racial
segregation
by
any
means.
C
It
did
in
fact
establish
a
legal
framework
to
move
closer
to
the
notion
that
all
and
I'm
gonna
say
persons,
but
it
said
men
that
all
persons
are
created
equal
now
in
this
country
we
have
a
very
sad
history
of
redlining.
It
began
in
earnest
in
the
1930s
who
was
part
of
the
Jim
Crow
laws.
Banks
essentially
wanted
to
know
which
neighborhoods
were
safe,
quote/unquote
safe
to
invest
in,
and
so
what
they
did
was
they
drew
red
lines,
literal
red
lines
around
undesirable
neighborhoods
in
their
minds.
C
Usually
these
neighborhoods
correspond
with
areas
where
there
were
large
minority
or
immigrant
neighborhoods.
These
results
were
really
devastating
to
families
and
communities.
Families
fell
into
poverty
and
communities.
Many
of
them
fell
into
disrepair,
property
values,
plummeted,
local
businesses,
closed
landlords,
abandoned
properties
and
some
became
locations
for
drug
dealing
and
other
crimes.
The
civil
rights
movement
then
helped
us
make
additional
progress
in
redlining
actually
became
illegal
under
the
1968
Fair
Housing
Act,
but
I
would
submit
to
you
and
to
the
members
of
this
committee.
Mr.
C
C
They
looked
at
16
on
metro
areas
across
the
country,
but
focused
a
lot
of
their
attention
on
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
where
discrimination
is
most
prevalent.
The
findings
in
this
reveal
magazine
work.
Quite
troubling.
African-Americans
were
2.7
times
more
likely
to
be
denied
a
home
mortgage
in
Philadelphia
as
compared
to
whites.
White
applicants
received
ten
times
as
many
loans
as
black
applicants,
even
though
they
made
up
similar
proportions
of
the
population,
and
several
major
banks
were
highlighted
in
this
story.
C
Having
high
variance
in
lending,
let
me
provide
one
example:
Wells
Fargo
denied
27%
of
African
American
applicants
and
yet
only
9%
of
white
applicants.
Other
banks
were
highlighted
as
well
and
I.
Think
it's
important
to
note
for
the
record
at
least
one
of
those
banks,
PNC
did
submit
to
me
in
writing
some
additional
data
that
they
asked
me
to
consider,
while
not
necessarily
all
evidence
of
discrimination.
I
would
submit
to
you
that
this
data
raises
some
clear
red
flags.
C
I
would
also
note
that
the
Community
Reinvestment
Act,
something
I
hope
we'll
get
into
during
our
discussion
here
today,
and
certainly
something
congressman
Evans
is
familiar
with
only
applies
to
financial
institutions
that
take
deposits
like
Wells
Fargo,
for
example.
It
does
not
apply
to
some
of
these
mortgage
companies
that
you
might
find
online
or
other
mortgage
companies
that
don't
take
deposits,
leaving
us
with
the
inability
to
gather
certain
kinds
of
data
from
certain
lenders.
C
I
believe,
fundamentally,
that
we
must
root
out
all
discrimination,
whether
it's
racial
ethnic,
gender
based
religion
based
or
based
on
someone's
sexual
orientation
or
gender
identity,
and
we
work
to
do
that
each
and
every
day
in
the
Office
of
Attorney
General,
as
you
know,
but
as
you
dig
deeper
into
this
data,
one
of
the
things
that
is
often
relied
upon
when
making
these
decisions
is
relates
to
housing.
Our
credit
scores
and
so
I
want
to
just
take
a
moment
and
highlight
that
and
again.
Mr.
chairman,
you
have
my
full
written
testimony.
C
I
just
wanted
to
share
a
few
thoughts
with
you
here
today.
Lenders
claim
that
credit
scores
are
the
real
reason
for
the
disparity
that
I
cited
before,
and
that
is
cited
extensively
in
reveal
magazine.
Credit
scores,
as
you
know,
are
three-digit
numbers
that
indicate
in
a
reliability
for
loans,
reliability
to
pay
those
loans
back
I
am
concerned
really
fundamentally
about
the
over
reliance
on
credit
scores.
For
basically
three
reasons:
number
one,
the
formulas
for
how
these
credit
scores
are
created
are
not
public.
There
is
virtually
no
transparency
surrounding
these
credit
score
process
number
two.
C
2007
Federal
Reserve
report
actually
noted
this
fact,
and
I
would
quote
that
on
average,
blacks
and
Hispanics
have
lower
credit
scores
than
non-hispanic
whites
and
Asian's
according
to
this
report.
So
if
we're
over
relying
on
credit
scores,
it's
no
wonder
that
certain
people
are
being
left
out
of
the
opportunity
for
progress
overall
when
certain
Philadelphians
are
denied
loans
because
of
systemic
racism.
That
not
only
holds
that
individual
back,
but
it
holds
the
whole
family
back.
It
holds
a
neighborhood
back
and
it
holds
an
entire
city
back.
C
You
know
we
work
hard
every
day
in
the
office
of
attorney
general
to
make
sure
folks
know
whether
they
like
the
decisions
we
make
or
don't
make
sure
they
know
that
we're
making
these
decisions
based
on
fairness,
every
institution
should
be
held
to
that
standard
and
any
hint
that
there
is
discrimination
based
on
an
applicant's
ethnicity
or
skin.
Color
goes
to
the
heart
of
the
fundamental
fairness,
question
and
inequities
that
exist
in
our
system.
I
want
to
state
very
clearly.
Redlining
is
wrong.
C
It
is
against
the
law,
and
I
will
not
allow
it
to
stand
here
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia
or
anywhere
in
Pennsylvania,
and
that
is
why
I've
launched
an
investigation
into
this
matter
based
in
part
on
the
reporting
from
reveal
based
in
part
on
senator
Vincent
Hughes,
reaching
out
on
the
issue
and,
of
course,
based
in
part
on
the
good
members
of
this
committee
yourself.
Mr.
C
chairman
councilman
Parker
Councilwoman,
Reynolds
Brown
raising
this
issue
with
me
and
saying
you
got
to
dig
in
on
it
and
while
I'm
not
going
to
comment
specifically
on
what
we
owe
our
investigation
is
going.
Let
me
just
tell
you
some
of
the
steps
I've
taken
so
far,
because
I
do
think
it's
important
to
be
as
transparent
as
we
can
in
this
investigation.
I've
directed
my
Bureau
of
consumer
protection
and
my
Bureau
of
Civil
Rights
to
determine
first
whether
we
have
jurisdiction
and
I
can
report
to
this
committee
that
we
do
in
fact
have
jurisdiction.
C
Third,
we
have
interviewed
consumer
advocates
who
are
on
the
front
lines
who
deal
with
these
complaints
every
day
and
I
would
submit
to
you
I
presume
your
office's
have
received
phone
calls
as
well,
and
so
we're
trying
to
hear
from
folks
who
have
heard
from
people
in
the
community
we've
partnered
with
the
Pennsylvania
Human,
Rights,
Commission
and
other
government
agencies
who
are
working
with
us
on
this
investigation.
Obviously,
beyond
that,
I
really
can't
comment
any
further.
The
last
thing
I'll
say
is
this:
we
need
residents
of
the
city
of
Philadelphia
to
help
us
with
this.
C
We
want
to
hear
from
them.
We
have
a
special
hotline
set
up
where
people
can
contact
us
with
either
examples
of
redlining
or
other
things
related.
That
they're
concerned
about
folks
can
call
one
eight
hundred
four
four
one,
two
five
five:
five,
if
you
prefer
not
to
call,
we
set
up
a
special
email
hotline.
Very
simple:
it's
discrimination
at
Attorney,
General,
gov,
again,
discrimination
at
Attorney,
General
gov,
and
we
have
a
special
section
on
our
website:
WWE
TV,
Norg
of
slash
discrimination.
C
C
D
D
You
for
the
invitation,
I
am
the
Sussman
professor
of
real
estate
and
professor
of
finance.
At
the
Wharton
School
of
the
University
of
Pennsylvania
name
is
Susan.
Walker
I
am
also
former
assistant
secretary
for
housing
under
President
Clinton
and
in
that
office.
I
had
the
pleasure
of
helping
to
develop
the
market
tax
credit
that
was
referenced
by
the
Honorable
congressman
again,
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
testify
today's
hearings
on
racial
disparities
in
home
lending,
together
with
co-authors
I,
have
written
scholarly
papers
on
redlining
and
the
housing
finance
system.
D
Although
the
1968
Fair
Housing
Act,
whose
anniversary
50-year
anniversary
we
are
celebrating
a
week
from
today,
is
aimed
to
prevent
and
reverse
the
unjust
social
and
economic
impacts
of
redlining,
the
legacy
of
past
practices
remain
visible.
Today,
physical
and
economic
rifts
continue
to
exist
based
on
past
lending
accessibility,
which
spurred
a
cycle
of
disinvestment,
long,
lasting
impacts
for
urban
areas.
D
Today's
mortgage
lending
practices
also
result
in
differential
access
to
credit
by
geography.
The
reveal
study
that
has
referenced
earlier
shows
that
Philadelphia
is
one
of
the
largest
cities
in
America,
with
disproportionate
lending
outcomes
for
minorities.
Today,
the
study
shows
that,
while
there
were
over
15,000
home
purchase
loans,
conventional
home
purchase,
loans
originated
in
the
city
in
2015,
and
2016
minority
groups
only
accounted
for
3000
of
those
15,000
loans.
D
This
hearing
is
about
mortgage
lending
practices
in
Philadelphia
now
and
the
ongoing
impact
they
will
inevitably
have.
We
know
how
deleterious
such
lending
practices
can
be
to
undermining
the
potential
of
Neighborhood
Development.
We
also
know
that
they
limit
access
to
homeownership
the
best
still
the
best
method
to
advance
families,
well-being
and
welfare.
D
Similarly,
mortgage
lending
limits
can
limit
and
constrain
home
sales,
with
the
result
that
there
are
fewer
transactions
in
neighborhoods
to
inform
future
lending,
the
lack
of
lending
itself
chills
investment
and
the
opportunity
for
homeownership
in
such
neighborhoods.
The
question
before
this
hearing
is
a
critical
one,
as
the
Community
Reinvestment
Act,
which
was
put
into
place
to
prevent
the
harmful
lending
practices
of
the
past
and
has
worked
to
spur
community
reinvestment
is
now
in
the
process
of
being
revised
understanding.
D
The
sources
of
today's
lending
disparities
is
necessary
to
inform
the
correct
re-envisioning
of
the
CRA
and
its
strengthening,
rather
than
its
weakening,
among
other
factors,
the
impact
of
higher
credit
scores,
which
has
been
referenced
by
the
Attorney
General
needs
to
be
further
explored
and
identified.
We
know
that
higher
credit
required
credit
scores
are
part
of
the
reason
for
the
tighter
so-called
tighter
lending
box
and
resulting
lower
home
ownership
rates
for
first-time
Hohner
home
buyers,
particularly
minorities,
which
is
at
an
all-time
low.
D
B
Thank
you
very
much.
This
also
want
to
state
for
the
record.
Attorney
General
Shapiro
talked
about
the
work
he's
done
with
senator
Vincent
Hughes,
and
he
recently
this
week
introduced
on
a
state
level
to
Pennsylvania
Community
Reinvestment
Act,
to
begin
on
a
state
level
trying
to
come
up
with
some
of
the
same
large.
That
was
similarly
mentioned
that
we
have
to
address
in
the
federal
level.
B
I
just
want
to
go
back
just
real,
quick
to
our
congressman,
just
when
the
federal
level,
just
for
you
just
to
so
much
clearer,
finders
clarify,
and
this
reinstate
the
fact
that
I
know
you're
against
the
exemptions
under
this
dodd-frank
act
that
you're
trying
to
roll
back
as
well
as
that's
the
Congressional
Black
Caucus
as
a
whole.
Correct,
correct,
okay,
hopefully.
A
Mr.
chairman
I
thought
the
Attorney
General
did
a
very
good
job
in
articulating
the
aspect
of
the
rules
of
the
game
right
because
obviously
the
rules
can
impede
economic
opportunity
and
that's
the
professor
talked
about
redlining
there's
a
certain
aspect
effect
that
called
tunity
cost
and
what
the
what
the
professor
was
referring
to
when
she
talks
about
just
the
aspect
of
redlining
and
the
threaded,
it
affects
opportunity
cost
which
in
return
affects
economic
opportunity
right
investments
in
his
communities.
A
But
what
I
was
attempting
to
share
with
you
is,
although
we're
fighting
the
battle
on
the
content
relating
to
the
rules,
the
financing
that
comes
to
the
city
in
the
priorities
that
you
said
are
very
essential
in
terms
of
your
block,
grant
how
you
did
with
the
Block
Grant,
as
was
described
that
council
and
I
give
you
our
credit
for
what
you
did
with
the
Rilla
to
transfer
tax
and
using
that
method.
Basically,
because
the
concern
is
the
order
of
the
distribution.
A
So
by
adding
the
block
map,
the
question
is,
are
probably
face
up
to,
but
but
I
think.
What's
the
most
important
about
this
hearing
that
you're
attempting
to
do
is
this
will
only
happen
unless
there's
a
functional
correlation
brought
together
the
locals,
as
you
described
with
the
state
and
the
fence,
to
my
knowledge
and
I've,
been
around
here,
Lou
I.
A
Don't
think
I've
ever
seen
this
before,
where
you
have
the
sitting,
Attorney
General,
with
under
your
leadership
and
the
academic
here
who
also
worked
in
the
federal
government
and
the
things
that
she
has
said
so
I
think
that
we
are
poised
in
this
city
and
in
this
state
to
move
in
the
right
direction.
Now
I
know
that
doesn't
mean
two
people
who
are
listening
to
this
about
who
need
access
to
capital.
I
sit
on
the
Small
Business
Committee
I
am
the
ranking
member
on
economic
growth
and
we
talk
about
capital
a
lot
for
businesses.
A
The
same
thing
we
talk
just
with
what
the
Attorney
General
so
I.
Guess
what
I'm
saying
to
you
to
me
with
your
leadership
as
chairman
of
this
committee.
You
are
the
conductor,
you
know
really
it's
the
locals,
who
do
the
implementing
you?
Don't
do
it
at
the
federal
level
and
I
know
as
I
recall,
you
don't
do
it
at
the
state
level.
A
You
as
council
people
are
the
frontline
you're,
the
ones
who
are
most
responsible
for
implement
the
we
do
what
we
do,
but
you
the
people,
come
in
contact
mostly
with
you,
and
they
do
with
myself.
So
I
share
with
you
that
this
hearing
I
just
want
to
compliment
the
fact
of
the
way
you're
conducting
this
hearing
and
the
direction
you're
moving.
Thank
you.
B
E
Thank
You
mr.
chairman,
and,
let
me
say,
welcome
to
each
of
you.
We
appreciate
you
being
before
the
committee
today.
I
want
to
start
with
you
Attorney
General
Shapiro,
because
the
the
context
with
which
you
proffered
your
testimony
particularly
open
enough
relative
to
a
Miss,
Brennan
and-
and
you
put
it
in
the
context
of
civil
rights,
and
you
talked
about
the
solutions
relative
to
the
investigation
that
your
office
is
conducting.
But
you
noted
that
both
divisions,
not
just
consumer
protection,
but
also
civil
rights.
E
You
have
both
of
those
divisions
within
the
attorney
general's
office
working
on
this
issue.
It
is
with
this
in
mind
that
I
want
to
note
for
the
record
that,
for
a
very
long
time,
we
considered
simply
gaining
access
to
equitable
opportunities
to
receive
a
quality
education
as
the
singular
civil
rights
issue
of
the
21st
century.
E
The
manner
with
which
you
have
just
described
how
your
department
is
using
the
powers
within
your
a
disposal
to
investigate
this
issue
with
the
hopes
of
coming
up
with
solutions
you
have
just
identified
for
us
that
equitable
access
to
the
capital
needed
to
pursue
the
American
dream
is
also
one
of
the
key
civil
rights
issues
of
the
21st
century.
My
question
to
you
is
since
you're
the
Attorney
General
for
the
Commonwealth
of
Pennsylvania
and
I
know
you
can't
talk
about
the
investigation
in
detail,
but
I
know
people.
E
You
usually
use
race
as
the
most
emotionally
charged
element
to
divide
residents
in
our
in
our
Commonwealth,
but
if
we
were,
if
we
were
gambling,
I
would
dare
say
to
you
that
if
this
investigation
included
those
who
are
living
in
poverty
in
rural
Pennsylvania,
that
there
would
be
a
direct
correlation
not
only
as
it
relates
to
race,
but
socio-economic
status
am
I.
Asked
of
you
is
in
your
work
with
state
senator
Vincent
Hughes.
E
Are
we
in
any
way
shape
or
form
trying
to
connect
this
issue
not
only
in
an
urban
from
an
urban
perspective,
but
seeing
how
it
impacts
Pennsylvanians,
who
are
living
in
rural
Pennsylvania,
because
now
I'm
thinking
about
our
you
know,
few
years
of
experience
in
Harrisburg
that
have
rural
legislators
also
understand
that
this
is
impacting
their
constituency.
We
could
potentially
pick
up
some
allies
in
helping
to
come
up
with
the
state
version
of
a
solution.
To
this,
so
tell
me
is:
is
it
at
all
possible,
or
will
we
be
looking
at
rural
communities
also
I.
C
Appreciate
your
question
and
your
comments
and
and
of
course,
your
leadership
and
just
to
react
to
the
the
opening
part
of
what
you
said
there
I
mean
you
know
we
we
have
a
saying
in
our
office
that
we
talk
about
each
and
every
day
that
we
want
fairness
in
our
justice
system
and,
most
importantly,
that
we
want
to
apply
the
law
without
fear
and
without
favor,
and
that
everyone
should
be
equal
under
the
eyes
of
the
law
and
I.
Think
you
can
extrapolate
that
that
everyone
should
have
equal
opportunity.
C
It
doesn't
mean
that
everyone
will
end
up.
You
know
exactly
equal
in
terms
of
what
they
earn
or
where
they
go
to
school
or
what-have-you,
but
everybody
should
have
that
opportunity
and
for
too
many
communities
in
Pennsylvania
that
opportunity
is
taken
away
from
them
and
predetermined
because
of
where
they
live,
what
they
look
like,
maybe
who
they
love
or
where
they're
from,
and
we
work
every
day
to
take
those
factors
out
of
the
discussion
and
give
people
an
equal
opportunity.
C
Now
you
raise
a
really
important
point,
I
think,
given
your
understanding
of
how
the
state
works
from
your
previous
life
in
Harrisburg,
it's
all
about
building
a
coalition
in
order
to
help
deal
with
a
problem
and
and
the
reality
is
as
much
as
you're
gonna
do
here
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
which
is
going
to
be
incredibly
helpful.
We
should
have
a
statewide,
and
indeed
a
federal
answer
to
this
question
and
I
think
you
raise
a
great
point
when
you
study
rural
poverty
and
urban
poverty.
C
There
are
so
many
similarities
in
that,
while
the
people
may
look
different
and
the
terrain
may
quite
literally
look
different
when
you
study
some
of
the
key
effects
of
it
they're
really
all
the
same.
Let
me
give
you
a
few
examples.
You
know
we
lack
educational
opportunities
in
some
ZIP
codes
in
Philadelphia,
just
as
we
do
some
zip
codes
in
Johnstown
Pennsylvania,
where
people
look
a
whole
lot
different
than
they
do
in
in
North
Philly,
for
example.
C
But
the
effects
are
the
same
when
students
don't
have
the
chance
to
learn
when
the
students
don't
have
access
to
the
same
things
that
you
or
I
did
growing
up,
they're
destined
to
have
a
much
harder
time
to
be
able
to
succeed.
A
second
example
that
is
economic
opportunity
and
housing,
obviously
flows
from
that.
C
If
you
don't
have
access
to
a
good
job,
if
you
don't
have
access
to
capital,
if
the
banks
or
some
other
institution
are
closing
the
door
on
you
before
you
even
show
up,
then
we
know
you're
gonna
be
destined
to
fail
in
that
process
and,
finally,
and
I
know
we're
not
here
to
talk
about
the
heroin
and
opioid
epidemic.
But
you
know
that's
my
my
top
priority
in
terms
of
the
need
to
save
lives,
we're
losing
15
Pennsylvanians
a
day,
1,200
philadelphians
last
year.
C
Even
though
folks
may
look
different,
the
terrain
may
be
different.
We're
all
in
this
together.
So
I
would
submit
to
you
that,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
yes,
I
believe
that
if
our
investigation
uncovers
that
there
are
systemic,
you
know
there
are
systemic
racism
at
some
of
these
major
institutions
that
are
holding
people
back
by
not
giving
them
access
to
capital.
That's
not
a
Philadelphia
problem.
That
is
a
Pennsylvania
problem
that
is
gonna
impact
communities
well
beyond
the
city
of
Philadelphia
and
we're
gonna
do
something
about
it.
Finally,.
E
Not
only
is
there
an
issue
with
people
who
are
denied
mortgages,
but
when
they
are
denied
mortgages,
they
are
being
moved
into
the
direction
of
engaging
in
predatory
rent-to-own
agreements
or
lease
agreements.
They
have
like
a
lot
of
sexy
names
and
that
Peters
going
to
go
through
all
of
them
and-
and
we
know
that
your
office
or
the
division
of
consumer
protection-
we
know
they
know
it
and
you
are
informed
about
it.
E
I
was
just
in
they
had
a
town
meeting
last
night
and
the
Consumer
Protection
Division
of
your
office
was
at
that
Town
Meeting,
along
with
a
state
rep
as
well,
official
and
and
many
others
so
want
to
commend
each
of
you
for
your
work.
Congressman
Evans
of
you
mentioned
Community
Development,
a
block
grant
funding.
You
know
that
has
long
been
an
issue
of
grave
concern,
particularly
relative
to
a
Neighborhood
Stabilization.
E
So
we
know
that
you'll
keep
us
informed
on
that
and
in
any
way
that
we
can
add
value
in
that
federal
state,
local,
inter
governmental
sort
of
cooperative
planning
agreement
or
work
force
that
you
talked
about
of
be
pleased
to
work
with
my
colleague,
along
with
other
members,
to
move
that
forward.
So
thank
you
all
so
very
much
I.
B
Do
want
to
say
mr.
Attorney
General
as
you
do
your
statewide
research
I
would
like
to
see
the
comparison
of
loans
that
are
made
in
suburban
counties
first,
compared
to
the
loans
that
are
made
in
urban
communities
to
see.
Is
there
a
disparity
and
if
there's
a
statewide
issue
from
that
aspect,
but
that
would
be
very
interested
without
I.
B
F
Morning,
I
would
be
remiss
not
to
echo
the
observation
made
by
Congressman
Evans
that
and
I'm
I've
been
here,
reflecting
on
what
other
issue
has
risen
to
this
place
on
the
radar
screen,
where
you
indeed
are
talking
about
we're
talking
about
a
coalition
at
the
federal
level,
the
state
level,
the
city
level,
backed
up
with
the
research
provided
by
academia
and
in
my
reflection
here,
I
cannot
think
of
one
issue.
Mr.
chairman,
where
all
levels
of
government
have
are
coming
together
to
say:
hey.
This
is
wrong
and
B.
This
is
wrong
and
C.
F
D
B
Professor
watcher,
you
talked
about
in
your
testimony,
realign
neighbors
are
still
suffering
the
consequences
of
the
policies
from
the
past.
Can
you
speak
to
the
differing
experience
of
neighbors
that
remain
disinvested
and
those
that
have
recently
received
significant
invested,
such
a
set
of
cities
in
the
surrounding
neighborhoods
and
then
and
then
the
second
components
of
my
question?
Is
you
also
testified
that
the
minimum
credit
score
is
acquired
by
lenders?
Have
over
time
have
risen?
B
D
Thank
you
I'd
be
pleased
to
address
both
of
your
questions.
The
first
question
is:
what
were
the
outcomes?
Historically,
we
have
evidence
for
the
nation
as
a
whole
for
major
cities
and
Philadelphia
is
included
in
that
which
indicates
that
previously
redlined
areas
decades
ago,
still
have
lower
investment
today,
less
housing
supply
and
lower
housing
prices
and
that's
taking
into
consideration
all
other
factors.
D
So
it's
isolating
identifying
the
impact
of
redlining
alone
redlining
in
itself,
which
is
astonishing,
actually
because
it's
saying
that
the
fate
of
people,
the
fate
of
neighborhoods,
is
in
the
hands
of
arbitrary
lending
decisions,
arbitrary
lending
decisions
that
were
race-based,
and
it
is
incumbent
upon
us
today
to
make
sure
that
going
forward.
We
can
say
this
is
no
longer
the
case
and
quite
the
contrary,
that
we
have
equal
and
fair
access
to
opportunity
and
to
homeownership.
D
It's
particularly
important
today,
because
the
city
of
Philadelphia
is
doing
well
thanks
to
the
leadership
of
many
Mississippi
Council
and
private
sector
as
well.
It's
prospering,
but
what's
critical,
is
shared
prosperity
and
home
ownership,
and
access
to
homeownership
I
would
say,
is
the
most
important
factor
for
access
to
continued
opportunity.
For
housing,
opportunity
for
jobs,
opportunity
to
remain
with
friends
and
family
in
the
city
as
it
prospers
for
all
and
I'm
sorry.
Your
second
question.
B
D
In
response
to
the
subprime
crisis,
which,
if
you
allow
me
I,
will
underline
that
it
was
absolutely
not
lending
to
community
to
minority
communities
or
low-income
communities
that
led
to
the
crisis.
Quite
the
contrary,
so
it
wasn't.
The
affirmative
lending
of
a
community
reinvestment
act
that
has
that
led
to
the
crisis
is
entirely
orthogonal
to
entirely
unrelated.
However,
communities
of
color
were
harmed
by
the
aftermath
of
the
crisis.
They
were
not
responsible
for
the
crisis,
but
they
were
harmed
by
the
crisis
and
it's
aftermath.
B
D
I
will
lenders
in
perhaps
an
understandable
boomerang
have
stepped
back
from
lending
across
the
country
and
I'm
speaking
specifically
for
conventional
prime
lending
and
they've
stepped
back
and
in
some
cases,
they've
withdrawn
from
FHA
lending
as
well
in
part
because
they
were
penalized
and
from
their
perspective
unfairly.
So
that's
a
separate
conversation,
but
in
any
case,
is
up
it's
their
decision,
whether
to
lend
or
not,
and
they
have
raised
the
credit
standards.
D
The
credit
quality
standards
of
the
credit
score
specifically
standards
to
levels
far
beyond
what
they
were
I'm,
not
speaking
about
what
they
were
going
into
the
crisis.
Because,
though
we
did
have
to
loose
lending
standards,
then
they
have
raised
their
lending
standards
far
beyond
what
they
were
historically
far
beyond
where
they
were
in
2000,
far
behind
very
safe
levels.