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From YouTube: Committee on Public Health and Human Services 2-14-2022
Description
The Committee on Public Health and Human Services of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Monday, February 14, 2022, at 1:00 PM to hear testimony on the following items:
210902 An Ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code,” by amending Subcode “A” (The Philadelphia Administrative Code) and Subcode “PM” (The Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code) and other related sections of The Philadelphia Code to add provisions related to the abatement of rats and other vermin in the City of Philadelphia, all under certain terms and conditions.
220051 An Ordinance amending Section 9 4116 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “2021 Public Health Emergency Leave,” to establish additional leave time under certain circumstance, modify existing provisions concerning the paid sick leave, and make technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.
210046 Resolution calling for a public hearing to examine the City of Philadelphia’s compliance with the Pennsylvania Firefighter Cancer Presumption Act.
A
A
I
understand
that
state
law
currently
requires
that
the
following
announcement
be
made
at
the
beginning
of
every
remote
public
hearing
as
follows.
Due
to
the
current
public
health
emergency
city,
council
committees
are
currently
meeting
remotely,
we
are
using
microsoft
teams
to
make
these
remote
hearings
possible
instructions
for
how
the
public
may
view
and
offer
public
testimony
at
public
hearings
of
council
committees
are
included
in
the
public
hearing,
notices
that
are
published
on
the
daily
in
the
daily
news,
inquirer
and
legal
intelligencer
prior
to
the
hearings
and
can
also
be
found
on
phlcouncil.com.
B
A
I
am
present.
Thank
you.
A
quorum
of
the
committee
is
present
and
the
hearing
is
now
called
to
order,
and
this
is
the
public
hearing
of
the
committee
on
public
health
and
human
services
regarding
bill
numbers,
two,
one:
zero,
nine,
zero,
two
and
22051
and
resolution
number
21046
and
madam
clerk,
will
you
please
read
the
titles
of
the
bills.
A
A
By
continuing
to
be
in
the
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
being
recorded
additionally
prior
to
recognizing
members
for
the
questions
or
comments
they
have
for
witnesses.
I
will
note
for
the
record
at
this
time
that
we
will
use
the
chat
feature
available
in
microsoft
teams
to
allow
members
to
signify
that
they
wish
to
be
recognized
in
order
to
comply
with
the
sunshine
act.
A
G
I
am
joined
today
by
dr
raval
nelson
director
of
environmental
health
services
for
the
department
of
public
health.
This
bill
will
require
applicants
of
certain
types
of
building
permits
to
provide
verification
that
they
have
prepared
a
road
and
control
management
plan
for
the
detection,
inspection
and
treatment
of
rodents
at
their
site
at
a
minimum.
The
plan
shall
include
provisions
for
abatement
of
the
site
by
a
licensed
pest
control
company.
This
bill
will
also
require
vacant
lot,
licensees
to
perform
yearly
inspections
and
rat
remediation
by
a
licensed
pest
control.
G
Company
the
department
of
licenses
and
inspections,
along
with
the
department
of
public
health,
are
supportive
of
this
legislation
and
are
prepared,
should
it
become
law
to
promulgate
regulations,
to
implement
and
enforce
these
new
regulations.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
provide
the
testimony
on
behalf
of
the
administration.
We
are
happy
to
answer
questions
at
this
time.
H
H
A
B
In
an
empty
lot,
and
I'm
asking
city
council
in
reference
to
the
absentee
property
owners
who
have
vacant
lots
and
vacant
buildings,
and
that's
where
people
do
a
lot
of
the
short
dumping,
illegal
short
thumping
and
that's
what
attracting
the
rodents.
I
I
take
a
stand
that
it's
not
a
privilege
to
live
rooting,
free.
A
A
Okay
well
and
then,
okay,
since
there
are
no
questions,
I
want
to
thank
everyone
for
being
here
today
on
this
very
important
piece
of
legislation,
particularly
as
the
city
of
philadelphia
is,
as
we
all
know,
in
the
midst
of
a
book
a
building
boom.
I
won't
say
that
right,
a
building
boom.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
you
know
we're
not
unnecessary
problems
or
unnecessary
issues
as
a
result
of
the
building.
A
That's
coming
from
this
disturbing
ground,
that's
been
laid
dormant
for
a
very
long
time,
so
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
being
here
for
being
in
support
of
this
public
health
situation,
which
is
really
going
to
be
affecting
communities
throughout
the
entire
city
of
philadelphia.
So
I
thank
you
so
much
for
being
here,
and
that
being
said,
madam
clerk,
can
you
call
forward
the
panel
on
on
the
next
bill
that
we
have
for
today,
richard.
A
A
F
Thank
you
so
much
councilmember
bass.
I
would
like
to
make
a
few
comments
before
we
hear
from
our
panelists
about
the
colbert
19
paid
sick
leave
bill
council
passed
public
health
emergency
leave
twice
over
their
pandemic
to
protect
our
city's
workers
during
the
global
pandemic,
but
that
leave
ended
last
year
and,
as
we
all
know,
the
pandemic
has
not
ended
and
our
workers
are
still
in
need
of
protection.
For
the
last
two
months,
workers
have
been
left
out
of
mandatory
basic
lead
protections.
F
My
office
has
heard
firsthand
that
this
has
made
a
recent
spike
in
cases
high
due
to
the
highly
contagious
omicron
variant,
especially
on
workers,
especially
low-wage
workers.
These
workers
are
disproportionately
immigrants,
black
and
brown
people
and
women.
The
communities
have
been
most
impacted
throughout
the
pandemic,
and
many
of
them
are
once
again
being
asked
to
choose
between
coming
to
work,
sick
or
missing
a
paycheck
that
they
can't
afford
to
miss
as
the
cases
decline
and
vaccines
become
more
widely
available.
There
is
much
to
be
hopeful
about,
but
with
schools,
stadiums
and
restaurants
open.
F
F
F
So
we
know
that
the
time
to
pass
this
bill
is
now.
We
cannot
have
another
surge
and
another
outbreak
where
workers
are
being
forced
to
come
into
work
with
covet
and
passing
around
to
their
peers
and
at
work
and
bring
it
home
to
their
families.
So
workers
who
go
in
every
day
during
the
pandemic
to
provide
services
to
the
public
that
we
deserve
to
be
able
to
voice
their
concerns
and
stay
home,
knowing
that
they
can
still
pay
your
their
bills.
Thank
you
so
much,
madam
chair.
A
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank
you
councilwoman
and
I
know
we're
going
to
get
into
it
a
little
bit
further
along,
but
I
did
have
a
couple
of
questions,
but
I'd
like
to
probably
hear
directly
from
the
panelists
and
those
testifying
because
it
actually
may
address
some
of
the
questions
that
I
have
ahead
of
time.
So
thank
you
very
much.
If
we
could
now
have
the
first
witness
testify.
B
B
B
The
pandemic
has
been
the
main
cause
and
sick
leave
complaints
increasingly
being
filed
with
the
department
of
labor
tripling
in
numbers
since
pre-pandemic
most.
If
this
increase
was
from
most
of
this
increase
was
from
essential
workers
employed
in
food
service,
supermarkets,
department
stores
and
health
care.
B
B
This
enlarged
scope
could
prove
burdensome
for
some
employees
for
some
employers
and,
if
unchanged,
the
department
of
labor
will
work
closely
with
the
department
of
commerce
to
ensure
proper
education
and
enforcement
of
the
new
ordinance
go
hand
in
hand.
I'd
like
to
thank
council
person
brooks
the
sponsor
of
this
bill
and
all
the
co-sponsors
for
their
leadership
on
this
issue,
and
we
will
enter
our
third
year.
The
pandemic.
B
K
K
K
Dear
city
council
and
mayor
kenny.
We
are
el
comite
de
trabajadores.
We
are
a
group
of
immigrant
workers
who
want
a
healthier
and
safer
restaurant
industry
for
all.
We
live
in
a
wonderful
and
multicultural
city
with
thousands
of
diverse
restaurants,
but
we,
when
we
are
forced
to
work
when
we
are
sick,
the
entire
industry
and
city
suffers.
K
If
we
want
to
reduce
the
spread
of
covid19
and
keep
philadelphians
healthy
and
thriving,
we
need
paid
sick
leave.
We
are
writing
to
you
to
demand
that
you
pass
council
member
kendra
brooks
bill
for
emergency
paid
sick
leave.
We
need
this
for
all
businesses,
small
and
large,
because
all
workers
should
have
access
to
paid
sick
leave,
but
for
now
we're
asking
that
you
pass
this
bill
for
workers
at
businesses
with
10
or
more
employees.
K
We
are
writing,
instead
of
speaking,
to
protect
our
own
safety,
but
feel
strongly
that
our
message
should
be
heard
here
are
a
few
quotes
from
our
base
that
explain
why
we
need
emergency
paid
sick
leave,
one
worker
said
for
me:
it's
very
important
to
have
this
approved
because
I
have
children
and
if
I
get
sick
or
they
get
sick,
I
will
be
able
to
stay
home
with
them.
This
law
also
shows
me
that
I
am
valued
as
a
person,
because
when
I
am
sick
I
can
stay
home
and
get
better.
K
K
K
K
K
He
already
hired
someone
else,
then
I
couldn't
find
another
job.
We
need
to
be
able
to
take
off
when
we
have
covet
and
return
to
work.
Healthy,
one
worker
was
unsure
about
the
vaccine,
but
then
said,
although
I
had
my
concerns
about
it,
I
got
my
vaccine.
Then
they
didn't
want
to
pay.
For
my
day
off,
another
worker
is
being
told
to
work
when
sick,
saying
my
employer
is
not
offering
me
any
sick
days
and
tells
me
that
I
have
to
go
to
work
when
I'm
sick.
K
K
K
There
are
many
more
workers
with
many
more
stories.
We
now
need
to
learn
to
live
with
coven
19,
and
that
includes
being
able
to
take
time
off
when
we're
sick
to
prevent
the
spread.
Please
pass
council
member
kendra
brooks
bill
for
emergency
paid
sick
leave
today,
sincerely
el
comite
de
trabajadores.
A
A
B
A
G
My
name
is
melissa
walter.
I
am
the
co-founder
of
love
city,
brewing
company,
we're
a
craft
brewery
and
tap
room
that
opened
in
2018
we're
located
in
the
first
councilmanic
district,
and
I
want
to
thank
council
person
brooks
for
introducing
this
bill
and
councilman
scola
for
co-sponsoring
it
as
well.
G
So
we
currently
employ
20
people,
eight
of
which
are
full-time
and
12
are
part-time,
so
these
regulations
absolutely
would
apply
to
my
company,
but
our
internal
policies
actually
go
above
and
beyond,
what's
required
by
this
bill,
but
I'm
supporting
this
bill
because
I
believe
it's
beneficial
for
the
city
and
manageable,
for
small
businesses
in
general.
Sick
leave
is
incredibly
important
for
service
sector
employees.
G
Nobody
wants
someone
who's,
ill
handling,
their
food
and
beverages
and
co-workers,
don't
want
to
risk
getting
ill
themselves
from
their
co-workers.
But
the
simple
truth
is
that
workers
who
can't
afford
to
stay
home
won't.
You
know
if
the
decision
is
between
coming
to
work
with
an
illness
and
missing
out
on
a
portion
of
your
income.
Many
people
will
choose
to
work,
especially
if
that
income
is
the
difference
between
being
able
to
pay
your
bills.
G
G
She
was
scheduled
to
work
on
a
saturday
and
was
experiencing
symptoms.
So
we
asked
her
to
take
a
covet
test
before
coming
to
work
which
we
actually
provided,
and
it
came
up
positive,
so
she
stayed
home
for
five
days.
Her
symptoms
resolved
and
she
came
back
to
work
later
that
week.
So,
in
the
end,
our
company
paid
fifteen
dollars
for
the
kova
test
and
about
360
dollars
in
sick
leave
benefits.
G
This
bartender
supports
her
family
and
I
don't
know
what
decision
she
would
have
made
if
she
didn't
receive
sick
pay.
But
I
can
guess
what
would
have
happened
to
our
business
if
she
came
to
work
and
infected
other
people.
Nearly
all
of
our
workers
are
on
shift
on
saturday,
and
even
if
50
of
them
became
ill,
we
would
have
likely
had
to
close
our
doors
to
the
inability
to
staff
the
tap
room
so
paying
under
400
in
benefits
likely
saved
us
thousands
of
dollars
in
possible
lost
revenue.
G
In
addition,
many
servers
who
left
their
positions
during
the
past
18
months
cite
the
lack
of
sick
benefits
is
one
of
the
reasons,
but
I
believe
our
company
is
a
testament
to
how
providing
those
benefits
can
actually
minimize
turnover.
So
from
march
2020
to
march
2021,
we
retained
over
80
percent
of
our
staff
and
hiring
and
training
new
employees
is
always
costly.
We
all
know
that,
so
any
policy
that
helps
employee
retention,
I
believe,
is
good
for
our
bottom
line.
G
A
F
A
I
G
F
Thank
you
so
much
for
that.
My
next
is
a
thank
you.
I
want
to
thank
rayna
for
sharing
her
concerns,
concerns
of
other
immigrant
workers
and
for
the
stories
like
yours.
That's
exactly
why
we're
trying
to
produce
this
bill
because
we're
trying
to
prevent.
So
I
want
to
thank
you
so
much
for
sharing
and
can
the
interpreter
share
that
with
vayner
as
well.
Please.
M
F
G
I
mean
I
understand
that
we
are
all
still
probably
in
a
financial
situation.
You
know
coming
out
of
covet
19,
but
I
don't
believe
that
not
offering
sick
benefits
is
going
to
improve
our
financial
situation
at
all.
If
workers
feel
protected
and
feel
like
they
can
stay
home
when
they're
ill,
then
they
likely
will
and
will
prevent
the
spread
of
coven
19
and,
I
think,
will
come
out
better
with
better
bottom
lines
as
well.
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
want
to
thank
the
sponsor
for
this
legislation.
It's
important
to
keep
workers
safe
in
our
city,
as
well
as
making
sure
that
we
have
a
vibrant
community
of
businesses
of
all
sizes
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
I
was
struck,
though,
by
the
testimony
by
mr
laser
in
your
testimony.
D
You
used
the
phrase
some
burden
and
I
wanted
to
get
some
perspective
by
what
you
meant
by
that
you
said
was
that,
in
reference
to
certain
types
of
businesses
you
said
there
was,
I
want
to
make
sure
the
full
context
of
your
question,
and
I
think
you
use
the
phrase
some
burden.
I
just
want
to
get
some
more
perspective
on
that.
H
Good
morning,
councilwoman
bass
and
all
of
them
this
committee,
we
did
initially
have
some
concerns,
but
once
we
found
out
or
learned
that
this
bill
mirrors
the
paid
sick
leave
that
is
already
on
the
books
we
vacated
that,
but
as
rich
laser
stated
initially,
we
did
have
some
concerns
around.
You
know,
operating
costs
and
lack
of
talent
and
the
financial
burden
that
it
would
bring
on
small
businesses.
But
again
we
are
not
there
anymore.
D
Yeah-
and
I
was
just
just
curious
trying
to
get
some
context
because
we
know
the
paid
sick
leave
bill
was
passed
at
a
different
time
when
you
know
the
city,
and
actually
the
world
was
in
a
much
different
financial
state.
I
know
from
you
know,
testimony
that
commerce
has
provided
other
entities.
The
number
of
businesses
were
significantly
impacted
by
the
pandemic,
especially
black
and
brown
businesses
or
commercial
carters.
D
Many
of
those
businesses
that
are
already
struggling
mainly
due
to
lack
of
resources
and
lack
of
support
actually
had
to
close
a
disproportionate
amount
of
african-american
and
brown-owned.
Businesses
were
had
clothes
based
on
information
from
both
the
united
states
senate
and
the
wall
street
journal
coming
out
of
the
pandemic,
as
opposed
to
majority-owned
businesses
that
have
traditionally
had
higher
capitalization.
H
H
I'm
sorry
I'm
going
in
and
out,
but
we
want
to
just
make
sure
that
you
know
what
is
on
the
books
is
representing
all
businesses
and
it's
not
further
affecting
what
they're
going
through
pre-pandemic
as
well
as
during
the
pandemic.
We're
discussing.
We
are
in
discussions
about
some
of
the
other
benefits
that
could
come
of
this
bill.
D
G
G
G
A
M
M
M
This
bill
and
brooks
moving
forward-
and
this
is
what
I
have
to
say
as
far
as
my
experience
in
the
restaurant
industry
and
especially
dealing
with
code
over
the
last
couple
years,
so
I
am
27
years
into
the
food
service
business.
I
have
been
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
the
last
15
years,
my
career
in
philadelphia.
M
M
In
my
27
years
of
working
in
food
service,
I
can
say
there
has
been
one
time
that
I
have
been
been
ever
offered
benefits
or
even
considered
taking
time
off
when
I've
been
sick,
and
here
I
am
as
an
employer
in
the
philadelphia
opening.
My
business
is
fairly
new,
been
open
for
three
and
a
half
months,
and
to
say
it
has
been
challenging
is
an
understatement,
but
it
has
wreaked
havoc
on
every
aspect
of
life
for
everyone.
M
It
has
been
extremely
difficult
to
manage
that
and
to
know
that
there
are
employees
who
have
lived
the
same
life
as
me,
which
is
to
have
children
and
having
a
day
off
or
taking
a
day
off,
because
you're
sick
wreak
havoc
on
your
everyday
life,
as
well
as
it
being
a
public
health
issue
having
an
employee
come
to
work.
Sick
means
that
I
put
my
child
potentially
at
risk
for
getting
sick.
M
My
child
has
medical
issues,
had
heart
concerns
since
he's
been
born,
and
knowing
that
I
would
be
passing
that
on
to
him
just
to
have
an
employee
come
in,
so
I
can
provide
food
and
a
bottom
line
just
didn't
seem
morally
correct.
For
me.
Recently,
philadelphia
magazine
has
dropped
the
75
most
influential
people,
and
I
have
raked
ranked
number
45
and
the
reason
for
that
is.
After
my
27
years
of
experience
and
over
the
last
two
years,
I
can
open
a
restaurant
and
I
can
provide
food.
M
But
for
me,
what
has
been
most
important
is
to
be
a
game
changer
in
food
service,
and
that
is
respected
that
I
work
for
me
when
someone
comes
to
me
and
says
that
they
came
in
because
they
are
sick.
It
is
my
responsibility
to
accommodate
that
by
allowing
them
to
have
the
time
off,
paying
them,
because
if
they
don't
come
to
work,
then
that
can
wreak
havoc
on
their
everyday
life.
I'm
a
micro
business.
I
only
have
seven
employees,
I
believe
it
was
10
and
now
it's
up
to
50..
M
Even
still,
I
provide
a
living
wage.
I
provide
resources
for
insurance
and
we
also
provide
catastrophic
insurance
just
in
case
someone
one
of
our
employees
who's
not
actually
working
that
day
or
you
know,
or
whatever
have
you
has
to
go
to
the
hospital.
We
cover
that,
knowing
that
I
respect
the
people
that
work
with
me
has
been
more
productive
for
my
business,
the
other
time
I've
been
a
boss
or
had
to
employ
people.
I
feel
this
bill
is
really
important,
because
you
can't
put
a
price
on
the
human
experience.
M
I
don't
think
there
has
been
one
person
that
hasn't
been
affected
by
this
greatly
parents,
single
parents,
grandparents,
whether
you've
had
coveted
or
you've
indirectly
had
someone
in
your
life
that
has
headquartered.
I
have
seven
employees.
In
one
day
in
january,
we
had
one
of
our
employees
aunt's
pass
kovid.
We
had
another
one
of
our
employees,
whose
father
got
rushed
to
the
hospital
of
complications
with
kobe
and
they
found
out.
He
had
colon
cancer.
M
We
had
another
employee
who,
due
to
the
rent
issue,
was
it
being
I
couldn't
pay
rent
was
having
to
deal
with
some
moving
issues.
All
of
a
sudden,
I
shut
my
business
down
for
a
week
to
allow
everyone
to
regroup
the
responsibility
of
being
open
and
trying
to
make
people
come
into
work
or
putting
pressure
on
them,
but
I'm
not
able
to
meet
my
bottom
line,
which
is
not
something
that
I'm
willing
to
to
go
to
bed
with
that
night.
M
M
I
think
it's
kind
of
you
know
those
major
public
health
issues
allowing
people
who
are
handling
your
food,
who
are
not
well
if
you
are
getting
the
copic
vaccine,
but
also
you
need
a
time
to
heal
your
body
if
you're
dealing
with
some
sort
of
previous
health
issue
or
just
affected
you
differently
than
someone
else,
and
it's
important
to
allow
people
since
you're
asking
them
to
do
that.
For
you
the
grace
to
be
able
to
take
care
of
themselves
if
they're,
not
feeling
well
from
that.
A
Okay,
we'll
come
back
to
jennifer.
If
you
can
hear
me,
we
really
couldn't
hear
you
especially
towards
the
end
it
was
going
in
and
out
and
then
the
in
the
end.
It
was
mostly
out
so
so
we'll
come
back.
If
you
want
to
summarize
your
remarks
in
a
few
minutes,
we'll
swing
back
before
we
end
this
panel.
The
next
speaker,
I
believe,
was
nazara,
but
I
know
nasra
you
already
spoke.
Did
you
have
additional
comments
or
testimony
that
you
wanted
to
give
on
behalf
of
commerce.
N
N
Councilwoman,
can
you
hear
me
we
can
hear
you
well
all
right.
All
right.
Thank
you
committee
for
allowing
me
to
testify
at
this
time.
The
business
community
certainly
has
a
stake
in
ensuring
public
safety
and
and
is
working
with
the
government
to
have
our
city
return
to
its
normal
state,
as
can
be
expected.
N
However,
across
the
city,
the
impact
of
covet
19
virus
is
evident
with
too
many
vacant
storefronts
and
the
viability
of
many
of
our
commercial
quarters
has
been
sapped.
For
those
reasons
alone,
proposals
that
would
increase
costs
on
already
struggling
businesses
should
be
approached
with
the
utmost
sensitivity
and
consideration
of
each
each's
very
real
circumstances.
I
can
say
you
know
many
of
you
all
know.
I
worked
in
city
council,
16
years
prior
to
joining
the
chambers.
N
Vice
president,
I
actually
co-wrote
the
legislation
regarding
sick
leave
back
in
2011,
and
I
think
the
point
was
made
earlier
about
councilman
greene,
that
that
was
during
the
time
when
there
was
no
pandemic
or
no
economic
emergency.
In
addition
to
a
health
emergency
happening,
it
actually
took
us
a
year
and
a
half
to
get
that
written
and
passed.
N
This
field
was
introduced
three
weeks
ago
and
it's
been
on
the
fast
track,
at
least
in
my
opinion,
put
on
the
fast
track
to
being
passed
today
out
of
committee,
and
I
I
don't
think
the
appropriate
amount
of
consideration
has
been
given
in
talks
with
businesses
and
those
and
those
affected
by
this
legislation
has
been
take
has
been
had
so
the
due
diligence
that
I
know
it
requires
on
a
bill
that
affects
this.
Many
businesses
throughout
our
city
that
are
struggling
has,
in
my
opinion,
not
taking
place.
N
We
did
have
a
conversation
with
the
councilwoman
on
friday.
It
was
about
a
15-minute
call.
They
said
they,
you
know,
would
consider
our
amendments.
We
had
amendments
that
were
introduced.
Those
amendments
when
I
woke
up
this
morning
were
not
included
in
the
amendments
that
the
councilwoman
has
proffered
during
this
call.
I
mean
during
this
meeting,
and
so
it's
just
you
know
it's
really
frustrating
when
you
represent
working
people
and
business
people
are
just
as
much
working
people
as
as
individuals
are,
but
in
fact,
business
owners
are
working.
365
days
a
year,
24
7.
N
they're
working
so
hard
that
they're
creating
work
for
other
people.
That's
that
that
is,
they
are
no
less
working
people
in
individual
workers
out
here,
and
I
think
it's
you
know
a
lot
of
the
business
community
feels,
though,
as
though
the
city
council
and
some
members
of
city
council
don't
respect
that
or
don't
appreciate
the
work
that
they're
putting
in
to
try
to
even
survive
out.
N
Here
I
hear
it
on
a
regular
basis,
in
the
very
least
when
you're
about
to
double
the
cost
on
their
businesses
in
this
particular
way,
it
shouldn't
be
a
rush
process.
You
should
sit
down
a
couple
of
stakeholder
meetings,
not
phone
calls
where
there's
just
zoom
with
people
like
myself
that
you
guys
are
used
to
hearing
from,
but
real
business
owners
who
say
I'm
about
to
leave
the
city
of
philadelphia,
because
I
can't
take
it
anymore
and
we
need
those
jobs
here.
N
The
bottom
line
is
we
need
those
jobs
here
and
if
you
look
at
every
industry
that
I've
seen
from
the
from
very
reputable
sources,
the
pew
charitable
trust
thing
takes.
We
rank
as
a
city
at
the
bottom
in
terms
of
business
friendly
environment.
We
some
for
some
reason.
It
seems
as
though
we
don't
treat
our
businesses
with
a
sense
of
kinship.
Like
there
are
businesses
I
go
to
other
cities,
they
they
promote
their
businesses,
hey
atlanta,
we
got
coca-cola,
we
love
them.
Why
they're
providing
jobs
and
economic
development
and
activity?
N
Hey
you
go
to
nashville
nashville
is
booming
right
now
my
mother
used
to
live
there.
They
they
embraced
their
businesses
and
want
them
to
stay
there,
because
that's
where
the
jobs
are
coming
from.
So
when
you
have
a
city,
that's
known,
unfortunately,
as
a
with
the
largest
poor
population,
you
have
to
really
look
at
your
private
sector
and
say
I
need
to
support
you
guys
because
that's
where
the
jobs
are
going
to
come
from,
so
we
can
get
people
out
of
poverty,
train
people
for
the
jobs
of
today
and
and
increase
our
standing
economically.
N
We
just
it's
just
unfortunate
that
we,
I
think
all
I
can
say
is
we
can
we
can
do
more
to
embrace
our
business
community
and
I
wish
they
had
time
to
get
on
these
calls.
But
they're
working
24
7
365.,
so
we
appreciate,
if
you
all,
would
consider
the
amendments,
particularly
the
one
that
would
raise
it
back
up
to
50..
As
was
indicated
earlier,
the
past
legislation
was
passed
during
an
emergency.
It's
it's,
my
understanding
that
the
government
has
dropped
the
emergency
declaration
now.
N
So
this
is
just
simply
adding
sick
time
on
it's,
not
even
an
emergency.
It's
in
the
it's
in
the
title,
but
it's
not
an
emergency.
It's
an
understandable,
hey,
hey!
We
won't
know
what
we
don't
want
anybody
going
to
work
sick.
Nobody
wants
that
to
happen,
but
on
the
federal
level,
when
they
passed
it,
they
had
tax
credits
to
help
businesses
to
be
able
to
afford
it.
This
is
not
offered
at
all
in
this
legislation.
There's
nothing
that
says:
hey
we're
going
to
figure
out
how
to
help
these
businesses
do
this.
N
It's
just
assumed
that
they
have
the
money-
and
my
mother
told
me
a
long
time
ago-
don't
count
money
in
other
people's
pocketbooks
and
I
think
that
that's
what's
happening
in
this
particular
case
right
now.
The
the
young
lady
who
spoke
earlier,
who
owns
the
business,
was
very
anecdotal.
I
think
yeah
everybody
should
be
able
to
do
this,
she's
counting
money
in
other
people's
pocketbooks.
N
You
don't
know
what's
going
on
with
each
individual
business
until
you
sit
down
and
talk
to
them
and
they
explain
to
you
with
exasperation
on
their
face,
how
they're
struggling
to
stay
afloat.
So
with
that
testimony,
you
know
we
would
really
appreciate
more
time
to
talk
with
the
council
member
about
this.
I
think
that
you
will
see
by
and
large
when
you
speak
to
real
people
and
we'll
talk
about
black
white
asian.
What
have
you
across
the
board?
N
They
are
struggling
to
stay
afloat
and
keep
anybody
on
the
job,
let
alone
even
having
to
add
more
time
on
so
people
understand
the
business
community
understands
that
we
need.
You
know
we
don't
want
people
working
sick,
but
at
the
same
time
it
should
be
more
consideration
given
to
how
something
like
this
can
come
together
over
a
little
bit
more
time
to
talk
about
it
and
and
understand.
You
know
the
people
you're
affected
and
see
to
me
if
you're
going
to
pass
a
bill
from
the
beginning.
N
A
A
O
Good
afternoon,
chair
bass,
my
name
is
zach
pisac,
and
I
am
the
director
of
government
affairs
at
the
pennsylvania,
restaurant
and
lodging
association,
the
prla
and
again
good
afternoon,
chair
bass
and
members
of
the
committee
on
public
health
and
human
services.
We
appreciate
this
opportunity
to
submit
feedback
regarding
bill
number
22051
prla
represents
restaurants,
hotels
and
the
entirety
of
the
travel
tourism
industries
in
pennsylvania.
O
The
last
20
months
have
been
extremely
challenging
for
operators
in
the
tourism
and
hospitality
industries.
The
only
thing
that's
been
predictable,
for
so
many
small
businesses
in
pennsylvania
is
unpredictability.
The
data
shows
concerning
trends.
Sales
are
down
30
percent
compared
to
the
same
time
of
year
in
2019,
93
percent
of
restaurant
operators,
report
staffing
shortages
and
65
percent
report,
higher
food
costs.
O
O
It's
clear
that
philadelphia
businesses
have
been
hit
much
harder
than
other
regions
of
the
state,
primarily
due
to
winter
and
lack
of
outdoor
dining.
The
increase
in
cobia
19
cases
that
we
saw
at
the
start
of
the
year
and
additional
mitigation
84
of
operators
say
business
conditions
for
their
restaurants
are
worse
now
than
they
were
just
three
months
ago.
O
O
O
We
understand
the
significance
of
good
workplace
culture
and
flexibility
for
employees
and
that's
why
many
of
our
members
choose
to
go
above
and
beyond
at
great
cost
of
their
own,
and
many
have
told
us
that
they
already
provide
employees
with
generous
time
off.
Even
when
closed
due
to
the
pandemic.
Restaurants
were
still
paying
their
employees
since
those
employees
are
like
family.
A
prla
and
city
council
has
always
had
a
good
working
relationship.
O
We
appreciate
many
of
you
that
have
stood
up
for
the
industry
during
these
top
tough
times,
like
council
member
parker,
with
third-party
legislation
that
was
recently
passed
and
council
member
dom
on
outdoor
dining
and
many
others
as
well.
In
fact,
prla
has
engaged
on
this
subject
before
in
the
past
as
well.
This
legislation,
however,
goes
a
lot
further
than
similar
legislation
that
we've
seen
on
the
subject.
In
the
past,
this
version
of
coven
19,
this
version
of
the
covet
19
sick
leave
bill
lumps
large
and
small
businesses
into
the
same
category.
O
The
initial
intent
of
this
legislation
was
to
provide
flexibility
to
employees
as
we
all
navigate
the
pandemic,
which
is
why
prior
versions
of
the
bills
had
sunset
dates
that
were
connected
to
the
pandemic
in
some
form
or
another,
specifically
to
governor
wolf's
emergency
declaration.
This
legislation
was
always
and
should
continue
to
be
linked
to
the
copen
19
health
emergency.
O
O
There
are
thousands
of
businesses
in
philadelphia
with
just
10
to
49
employees.
That
would
be
impacted
by
legislate
by
this
legislation
that
many
do
not
even
know
we're
discussing.
Today,
we've
heard
from
dozens
of
owners
and
operators
from
all
over
the
state
recently
that
have
struggled
so
immensely
at
hiring
and
retaining
staff
that
they've
been
forced
to
shut
down
operations,
after
only
one
employee
test
positive
for
covet
19..
Of
course,
restaurants
have
and
will
continue
to
do
all
that
they
can
to
accommodate
their
employees
and
will
always
prioritize
keeping
their
staff
and
their
guests
safe.
O
O
Lastly,
we
feel
this
legislation
misses
the
mark
on
some
other
goals
related
to
the
pandemic,
specifically
as
it
relates
to
the
vaccines,
the
city
has
emphasized
the
important
importance
of
increasing
vaccinate
vaccinations,
which
prla
has
supported.
As
noted
earlier,
we've
worked
hard
to
help
with
vaccine
efforts
in
philadelphia.
That's
why
we
were
disappointed
that
the
legislation
didn't
do
anything
to
encourage
vaccines
and
to
addre
in
or
to
address
distinctions
between
those
employees
that
have
gotten
vaccinated
and
those
out
there
that
have
not.
O
We
have
discussed
our
concerns
concerns
both
privately
with
council
and
publicly
we're
thankful
to
be
part
of
this
conversation
with
this
committee
today,
and
we
hope
that
the
committee
will
consider
these
concerns
as
the
bill
moves
forward
throughout
the
legislative
process.
Prla
looks
forward
to
continue
dialogue
on
the
subject
and
we
stand
ready
to
assist
in
any
way.
We
can
thank
you,
chair
bass
and
the
rest
of
the
committee
for
allowing
me
the
opportunity
to
speak
with
you
today.
C
O
We
recently
prla
recently
met
with
council
member
brooks
about
the
bill.
We've
also
had
conversations,
I
believe,
with
council
member
parker
and
her
staff,
and
recently
we
also
work
with
with
contract
lobbyists
in
philadelphia,
who's
had
conversations
with
council
member
green
and
I
believe
some
others,
but
but
most
recently
and
most
primarily
council
member
brooks
we
had
a
meeting
last
weekend
and
council
member
brooks.
You
were
very
generous
with
your
time,
and
we
appreciate
that
and
we
appreciate
that
conversation
and
we
hope
to
have
more
moving
forward.
C
Okay,
well,
please
don't
hesitate
to.
Let
me
know
I'm
on
this
committee,
as
our
other
council
people.
I
think
we
have
five
members
of
council
listening
today
and
I,
and
while
I'm
very
sympathetic
to
some
of
the
things
that
you've
said
it's
the
first
time
I'm
hearing
about
it.
I've
never
seen
your
amendments.
I
know
nothing
about
it
and
you
know
the
issues
that
can
be
raised
could
have
been
raised
before
today.
C
I
hear
it
for
the
first
time,
and
so
I
think,
what's
going
to
happen,
is
we're
going
to
continue
on
without
any
discussion.
Far
as
I
can
tell,
and
whatever
discussion
will
happen
after
today,
and-
and
I
think
that's
unfortunate
and
I've
raised
this
before
with
your
organization
and
others.
If
you
want
to
say
something
say
it
before
the
day
of
the
vote
is
very
unfair
to
us
to
hear
things
for
the
first
time.
We
know
nothing
about
it.
C
O
I
was
just
I
we
appreciate
that
perspective
councilman,
oh
and
I'm
happy
to
do
that
this.
You
know
I
just
started
with
prla
about
nine
or
ten
months
ago,
and
I'd
be
happy
to
connect
with
you
not
only
on
this
subject,
but
with
many
of
the
of
the
challenges
and
and
pieces
of
legislation
that
we're
working
on.
A
A
I
think
it's
just
been
a
little
scatter
shot,
so
everybody
doesn't
have
all
of
the
information
and
all
of
the
knowledge
that
you
may
have
around
this
particular
issue,
so
so
we'll
be
working
with
the
bill's
sponsor
and
trying
to
bring
everybody
together
and
make
some
additional
conversations
happen.
So
we'll
be
working
on
that.
N
I
appreciated
councilwoman,
the
restaurant
and
lodging
association's
amendments
were
included
in
what
we
sent
around
to
council
previously,
I
don't
think
zack
knew
that,
but
we
haven't
spoken
with
andrew
zielinski,
who
represents
you
guys?
We
included
those
amendments
and
the
members
that
we
sent
around
to
the
count
to
the
committee
over
the
weekend.
I
still
would
love
to
have
more
time
to
talk
about
this,
as
the
councilwoman
just
indicated.
She
was
willing
to
do
it.
We
appreciate
that
councilman
bass.
A
L
I
am
currently
an
hourly
employee
in
philadelphia,
and
this
law
would
affect
myself
as
well
as
my
co-workers.
During
the
last
wave
of
omicron
that
spread
across
the
city,
many
workers
and
their
families
were
put
at
risk.
A
shocking
number
of
restaurants
across
the
city
were
not
only
not
informing
their
employees
of
their
contact
with
a
recently
positive
coworker,
but
they
were
not
insuring
their
staff
with
paid
sick
leave
or
quarantine
time.
L
L
My
experience
is
that
of
many
in
the
workforce
today,
as
the
current
economic
climate
asks
workers
to
subject
themselves
to
this
virus
daily
with
little
to
no
financial
safety
net,
implementing
emergency
picks,
sick,
I'm
sorry
paid
sick
leave
is
critical
to
the
workers
of
this
city.
I
would
also
like
to
note
the
importance
of
the
change
making
it
applicable
to
businesses
with
10
or
more
employees
as
many
of
philadelphia's
workers,
and
specifically
restaurant
workers
are
employed
by
small
businesses.
L
I
personally
love
the
restaurant
industry
because
of
the
lack
of
resources
and
financial
safety
nets
in
place,
coupled
with
the
outright
dehumanization
of
the
job
and
the
employer
asks
of
the
restaurant
worker.
Implementing
important
worker-focused
laws
like
emergency,
sick
paid
leave
will
ensure
a
better
and
healthier
future,
not
only
for
the
worker
but
for
the
industry
itself.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
your
time
and
consideration.
A
P
Hi,
my
name
is
walter
thomas
and
I
work
at
the
philadelphia
international
airport
and
I'm
speaking
on
behalf
of
hundreds
of
workers
at
the
airport
and
the
reason
that
the
pay
sick
leave
is
important
to
us
is
because,
if
any
of
us
any
one
of
us,
get
sick
and
have
to
be
out
of
work,
it
can
bring
stress
and
strain
on
us
not
being
able
to
provide
for
our
families
or
pay
bills
or
rent
due
to
being
sick
and
not
being
paid
for
it.
As
of
right
now,
we
have
at
least
six
employees.
P
A
F
B
Sure,
daisy
cruz
good
afternoon,
chair
bass
and
members
of
council,
like
I
said
my
name-
is
daisy
cruz,
I'm
the
mid-atlantic
district
director
for
seiu
32bj,
representing
over
10
000
members
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
This
is
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic.
Well,
over,
unfortunately,
100
of
our
32
bj
members
passed
due
to
cova
complications.
B
Additionally,
thousands
of
our
members
have
contracted
covert
and
even
more
have
come
into
contact
with
people
who
are
infected
each
time
they
miss
out
on
on
work.
At
least
you
know
at
least
a
week's
worth
of
pay.
You
know
they're
missing
out,
and
you
know
sometimes
you
know
going
out
multiple.
You
know
not
only
once,
but
twice
multiple
occasions
being
sick
or
for
whatever
reason
being
affected
with
some
type
of
covid
they're
missing
out
of
thousands
of
dollars,
just
like
walter
had
talked
about
with
his
co-workers
there.
B
While
many
of
us
have
still
have
the
comfort
of
working
from
home,
our
sciu32
bj
members
have
been
cleaning
and
securing
our
airplanes,
airports,
schools,
hospitals
and
office
buildings,
providing
wheelchair
services
to
passengers
throughout
our
airports
with
the
minimal
option
of
social
of
social
distance.
Our
members
have
been
on
the
front
line
during
this
whole
entire
pandemic.
B
Frontline
workers
are
more
vulnerable
to
contracting
kova
19
and
are
all
the
basic
protections
that
they
need
to
keep
themselves
safe.
During
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic,
frontline
workers
contracted
kova
19
at
a
rate
of
55
percent
higher
than
those
who
were
able
to
work
from
home.
This
resulted
in
higher
rates
of
death
and,
in
some
cases,
long-term
illnesses.
B
These
workers
have
kept
our
city
running
even
during
the
most
difficult
periods
of
the
pandemic
and
deserve
basic
workers.
Rights,
public
health,
emergency
leave
was
passed
twice
before
and
has
proven
to
be
effective
at
keeping
businesses
open
and
workers
safe.
Despite
some
pushback
from
our
corporate
lobbyists,
the
previous
two
public
health
emergency
lead
laws
were
extremely
successful.
B
These
protections
help
low
wage
workers,
endure
spikes
in
the
pandemic
and
ensure
that
businesses
weren't
unknowingly,
passing
cover
19
until
the
public,
we're
not
in
the
clear,
as
we
all
know-
and
this
epidemic
has
proven
time
and
time
again
to
be
unpredictable.
People
are
still
dying
from
covet
and
they're
still
occupying
hospital
beds
and
of
all
times.
We
should
not
take
any
risks,
especially
during
this
flu
season.
B
We
cannot
afford
to
take
away
basic
protections
like
sick
days
from
the
workers
that
have
been
protecting
us
throughout
this.
All
fellow
doctor
has
to
be
the
forefront
on
this
issue,
just
like
so
many
other
cities.
We
cannot
take
away
basic
protections
like
basic
days
and
we
should
not
put
profit
before
people.
Thank
you
for
giving
me
the
time
to
testify.
Q
Q
Yeah
yeah
again,
this
is
jennifer
zavala
from
wanna
tamale
here
in
south
philadelphia.
I
wanted
to
conclude
that
this
bill
is
important
for
workers
in
the
food
service
industry,
frontline
workers,
but
it's
also
for
us
as
employers,
just
better
business
practice,
to
allow
people
who
are
sick
and
affected
by
covid
to
have
paid
time
off.
You
cannot
put
a
cost
a
price
on
the
human
experience
and
the
bottom
line
causes
desperation
by
people
when
they're
not
able
to
provide
food
or
pay
their
bills
because
they
are
sick
and
no
fault
of
their
own.
F
Q
I
would
say:
that's
just
simply
not
the
case
in
the
sense,
if
you
have
to
pivot
your
business,
you
know
there
are
larger
restaurants,
organizations.
You
know
larger
restaurants
that
were
able
to
get.
You
know
restaurant
release
right.
There
was
one
particular
collective
that
was
able
to
get.
I
think
it
was
like
16
million
dollars
to
them.
Q
You
know.
Losing
an
employee
is
not
that
big
of
a
deal
right.
The
bottom
line
is
not
as
important
as
it
is
for
someone
like
myself
having
taking
care
of
my
employees
can
put
me
in
a
better
position,
because
my
employees
want
to
come
to
work,
knowing
that
I
care
and
respect
their
livelihood
outside
of
that.
Q
So
I
think
you
know
saying
that
this
is
bad
for
business.
It's
really
saying
that
you're
as
a
business,
not
able
to
accommodate
the
ever-changing
landscape.
That
is
happening
for
every
business.
Now
you
know
when
you're
not
able
to
get
the
things
you're
ordering
through
this
is
that
is
that
bad
for
business?
Does
people
know
you
for
a
particular
dish
or
a
particular
experience,
and
if
the
supply
chain
has
affected
you,
how
do
you
pivot
through
that?
Well,
it's
the
same
way.
Q
F
L
I
know
that
with
newer
industries
coming
out,
people
are
switching
careers
and
that
the
talent
pool
is
very
shallow
in
the
restaurant
industry.
I
do
believe
that
this
is
because
there
aren't
worker
protections
in
place
and
that
something
like
the
emergency
sick
paid
leave
would
keep
people
in
the
industry
instead
of
looking
for
other
options.
R
R
Today
we
come
together
to
advocate
for
the
diverse
small
business
owners
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
urging
members
of
council
to
engage
with
our
coalition
in
the
development
and
implementation
of
policies
and
regulations
that
may
impact
them.
The
businesses
we
represent
are
the
backbone
of
our
neighborhoods,
providing
essential
goods,
services
and
employment
opportunities
to
their
fellow
philadelphians.
R
Lowering
the
threshold
of
establishments
required
to
provide
covet
19
leave
to
businesses
with
10
or
more
employees
will
have
major
implications
because
it
brings
a
very
different
business
demographic
within
the
purview
of
the
ordinance
according
to
the
census.
There
are
6572
businesses
with
10
to
49
employees
in
philadelphia.
R
R
From
our
perspective,
businesses
of
10
to
49
employees
have
not
had
a
meaningful
opportunity
to
participate
in
a
discussion
about
the
benefits
and
challenges
of
providing
covet
19
leave.
After
all,
they
were
not
subject
to
the
robust
debate
that
took
place
prop
to
the
prior
enabling
of
the
current
law.
R
Unfortunately,
in
crafting
this
bill,
city
council
did
not
engage
with
the
members
of
our
coalition,
which
represent
many
of
the
businesses
that
would
be
impacted,
including
grocers,
restaurants
and
small
professional
services
firms
coming
as
it
did
without
warning.
Only
a
few
weeks
ago,
we
cannot
say
what
the
direct
impact
of
this
bill
will
be
on
the
many
businesses
we
represent,
but
we
do
know
that
paid
sickly
without
the
availability
of
cost.
Mitigating
resources
will
generally
result
in
the
increase
of
operating
costs,
which
is
a
priority
concern
for
the
entrepreneurs
we
represent.
R
F
R
R
Between
so
the
new
category
that
has
been
added
to
this
bill,
which
is
employers
with
employers
with
staff
of
10
to
50
or
10
to
49,
that
is
six
over
six
thousand
five
hundred
so
you're,
adding
folks
that
were
not
covered
under
the
current
jurisdiction
and
you're.
Adding
now
because
you're
lowering
the
threshold,
that's
over
6
000,
new
businesses
that
are
covered
under
the
modification.
F
F
I
get
it
I
understand,
you
know
your
perspective
and
I
thank
you
for
sharing
and
I
would
love
to
engage
deeper
with
folks
from
not
only
just
your
chamber,
but
the
small
businesses
that
both
you
and
will
carter
mention,
but
I
also
want
to
remind
folks,
but
I'm
talking
about
if
it's
6
000
people
that
we're
adding
to
this
6
000
businesses
as
up
to
sixty
thousand
people
that
we
could
be
preventing
from
catching
covet.
So
I'm
willing
to
have
a
deeper
conversation
with
you
as
well.
F
F
The
heads
I'm
okay
with
that,
but
if
you're
gonna
call
me
call
me
out
and
say
that
I'm
not
talking
to
the
small
business
owners,
I
need
to
make
sure
that
I'm
in
conversation
with
the
small
business
owners
across
the
chamber,
whether
it's
the
african-american,
the
latino
or
whatever.
So
if
you
can
set
time
to
set
that
up,
I'm
willing
to
have
this
conversation.
R
A
Thank
you,
and
I
think
that
concludes
our
hearing.
I'm
going
to
ask
one
more
time:
is
there
anyone
else
to
speak
on
this
particular
matter
and
if
not,
what
we're
going
to
do
now
is
come
out
of
our
public
meeting
and
get
go
into
our
public
hearing
and
go
into
a
public
meeting
to
hold
the
votes,
and
then
we
will
come
back
and
reconvene
for
our
hearing
on
resolution,
our
firefighters
resolution,
so
I'm
going
to
ask.
D
A
F
F
We
also
made
adjustments
so
that
businesses
with
generous
paid
leave
benefits
are
not
required
to
provide
additional
leave
under
this
bill
and
we
clarify
provisions
around
certain
labor
negotiations
and
collective
bargaining
agreements.
I
mean
we
also
included
the
heightened
enforcement
language
that
authorized
periodic
publishing
of
employers
with
unresolved
violations
as
permitted
by
law.
F
F
D
F
D
I
want
to
make
sure
we
protect
workers
by
making
sure
they
have
an
employer
and
the
concern
that
I've
heard
being
represented
from
a
number
of
small
black
and
brown
businesses
is
that
this
type
of
legislation
may
impact
their
ability
to
survive,
especially
during
a
covet
period.
You
know
prior
to
covet
and
I
supported
and
voted
well.
I
voted
for
the
legislation
for
earn
sick
pay
at
the
10
employee
threshold.
D
This
legislation
has
gone
through
at
least
two
iterations.
The
first
iteration
was
at
499
employees
and
it
was
100
subsidy
for
those
employees
coming
from
the
federal
government.
Then
we
had
the
50
employee
threshold
and
now
the
10
employee
threshold,
and
so
the
perspective
of
supporting
and
making
sure
that
employees
are
safe
is
something
that's
very
important.
D
I
think
from
every
member
of
city
council
by
the
same
point,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
employees
also
have
a
business
to
go
to
and
if
you
look
at
the
track
record
of
a
number
of
african-american
and
latin
businesses
that
have
closed,
especially
very
small
businesses
due
to
the
pandemic
and
that's
very
concerning,
and
so
that's
why.
I
asked
the
questions
and
want
to
get
some
additional
perspective
from
your
end.
F
Yes,
council
member,
I
think
that's
that's
why
I
brought
that
up,
because
they
mentioned
that
we
have
not
spoken
directly
to
a
diverse
coalition
of
small
business
owners.
So
I
put
that
on
the
table.
I'm
willing
to
have
that
conversation
for
us
to
you
know,
make
those
amendments
based
on
a
conversation
with
them,
but
I
just
asked
that
we
voted
out
the
committee
and
worked
through
those
amendments
towards
the
council
as
a
whole.
A
Thank
you
councilman,
and
I
think
that
you
know.
As
the
councilman
said,
you
know,
she's
open
to
some
compromises
and
a
few
and
further
amendments
on
the
bill,
and
so
we
will
be
having
those
conversations,
and
so,
unless
anyone
else
from
the
committee
has
any
additional
questions
and
there
being
no
further
member,
no
further
questions
for
members
of
the
committee
and
no
other
witnesses
to
testify.
A
I'm
going
to
ask
if
there
are
anyone.
If
there
is
anyone
else
present
in
this
hearing
whose
name
we
have
failed
to
call,
and
that
wishes
to
offer
testimony
of
any
of
these
two
bills
that
were
offered
today-
and
I
know
we
already
did
that
so
I'm
going
to
say
that
hearing
none.
I
want
to
thank
all
the
panels
and
witnesses
for
their
participa
participation
today
on
bills.
Number
two
one:
zero:
nine,
zero,
two
and
two
two:
zero
zero
five
one.
A
We
value
your
opinions
and
I
now
invite
all
panels
and
witnesses
from
those
two
bills
to
please
disconnect
from
the
public
meeting
before
we
go
into
our
from
the
public
hearing.
Before
we
go
into
our
public
meeting,
we
will
now
pause
the
proceedings.
Briefly,
as
multiple
participants
leave
the
hearing,
thank
you
very
much
for
your
attendance
today,
and
this
is
only
for
bill's
number.
Two
one:
zero:
nine
zero
two
and
two
two
zero
zero
five
one.
A
Okay-
and
so
I
see
that
we
have
had
multiple
participants
disconnect
from
the
hearing,
and
I
want
to
state
for
the
record
that
this
concludes
the
public
hearing
of
the
committee.
We
will
now
go
into
a
public
meeting
to
consider
action
to
be
taken
on
the
bills
before
the
committee
today.
Can
we
have
madam
clerk?
Please
call
the
role
and
establish
a
quorum
for
this
committee.
F
A
Second,
second,
okay,
for
the
record.
We
want
to
recognize
councilwoman's,
councilwoman,
kim
and
councilman
isaiah
thomas
seconded
the
motion.
It's
been
moved
and
properly
seconded
that
the
amendment
to
bill
number
two:
two:
zero:
zero,
zero,
two,
two:
zero
zero
five
one
be
approved.
All
of
those
in
favor
of
the
motion
will
signify
by
saying
I
I.
B
A
D
A
Second,
okay,
council
recognized-
or
I
want
to
recognize
that
it
was
second
and
I
believe
by
councilman,
thomas
and
gem,
okay,
but
it's
been
properly
moved
and
seconded
that
bill
number
two:
two:
zero
zero
five
one
as
amended,
be
reported
from
this
committee
with
a
favorable
recommendation
and
further
move
that
the
rules
of
council
be
suspended
to
permit
first
reading
of
this
bill
at
the
next
session
of
council.
All
of
those
in
favor
of
the
motion,
please
signify
by
saying
I
I.
B
A
A
A
I
know
say
almost
the
same
language
almost
yeah.
Can
we
get
a
second
on
that
second,
and
the
chair
recognizes
was
that
councilwoman
brooks
yeah
yeah?
Okay,
very
good
chair
recognizes
for
the
record
that
councilmember
brooks
seconds
the
motion.
It's
been
moved
and
properly
seconded
that
bill
number
two
one:
zero,
nine
zero
two
be
approved.
All
of
those
in
favor
of
that
motion
will
signify
by
saying
I
anyone
opposed
okay,
the
eyes
have
it.
A
The
motion
carries
and
bill
number
two
one:
zero,
nine
zero
two
has
been
approved,
and
now
we
will
go
back
into
our
public
hearing
around
bill
number
or
excuse
me
resolution
number
two,
one:
zero,
zero,
four
six.
If
we
could
have
the
clerk
call
the
first
panel
to
testify,
and
while
she's
doing
that,
is
there
any
opening
statement
from
a
member
of
council,
any
members
of
council.
C
Right,
thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
thank
you
chair
for,
for
holding
this
hearing.
It
is
certainly
an
issue
that
has
become
public,
and
I
want
to
thank
janiece
armstrong
for
writing
about
this.
I
have
been
contacted
by
several
firefighters
regarding
this
issue
and
looked
into.
It
is
about
a
presumption.
A
presumption
is
something
that
occurs
by
public
policy
or
by
law.
C
The
question
arises
is
what
is
the
response
from
the
city
and
to
what
extent
is
that
presumption
being
accepted
because
of
the
nature
of
the
hearing?
Being
that
we
never
know
exactly
what
time
these
hearings
occur.
One
of
my
witnesses,
who
is
our
expert
witness?
He
did
move
his
hearing
at
2
30
to
2
45,
but
he
told
me
in
a
text
message
he
has
to
go
to
his
245
hearing.
He
will
try
to
rejoin
us.
C
S
Yes,
good
afternoon,
council
person,
bass
and
all
the
other
members
of
city
council
and
thank
you
for
holding
this
hearing.
I
want
to
especially
thank
david
o
for
working
hard
to
have
this
hearing
scheduled.
It's
been
a
long
road
for
myself
and
others,
but
I
give
all
of
you
my
thanks
for
holding
this
hearing.
S
My
name
is
john
narkin
and
I
have
stage
four
cancer.
My
cancer
started
a
soft
tissue
tumor
in
my
lower
back
where
my
self-contained
breathing
apparatus
harness
lands.
Wherever
I
wear
it,
the
cancer
has
since
metastasized
into
other
parts
of
the
soft
tissue
in
my
body,
as
well
as
both
my
lungs
and
multiple
ribs
for
over
half
my
life,
the
last
27
years.
I've
served
the
city
of
philadelphia
as
a
proud
member
of
the
philadelphia
fire
department,
while
my
cancer
diagnosis
was
incredibly
hard
to
comprehend.
S
S
S
Less
than
a
week
later,
I
received
a
letter
in
the
mail
dated
may
8
2018
the
day
after
the
commissioner's
office
received
my
hand-delivered
letter
denying
my
request.
My
claim
was
automatically
denied.
I
was
now
in
a
battle
against
cancer
and
my
death,
but
also
the
city
of
philadelphia
administration.
S
The
years
that
are
fall
can
be
described
as
exhausting
painful
as
well
as
physically
and
mentally
draining
I've
undergone
surgeries,
immunotherapy
procedures,
infusions,
immunotherapy
pills,
radiation
treatments,
cryogenic
procedures,
which
have
tried
to
freeze
the
cancer
in
my
ribs
chemotherapy
pills
and
chemotherapy
infusions,
none
of
which
have
stopped
the
cancer
it
slowed
it
down.
But
each
scan
shows
I'm
closer
to
the
time
in
which
nothing
can
even
slow.
The
cancer
down
I've
seen
multiple
doctors
all
over
the
area
and
some
even
outside
the
state
who
are
topping
their
field.
They've.
S
Not
given
me
a
timeline
on
what
would
happen,
but
the
message
is
all
the
same.
This
condition
will
kill
me
sooner
than
later
january.
2022
is
national,
firefighter
cancer
awareness
month
throughout
the
month,
the
philadelphia
fire
department
went
through
great
lengths
to
publish
this
and
get
the
message
out
through
the
weekly
update
that
sent
to
pfd
members.
There
were
links
to
articles
of
firefighter
cancer
awareness,
as
well
as
safety
bulletins
published
and
distributed
to
its
members
to
help
get
the
message
out
to
the
members
of
the
pfd
in
the
region.
S
there
are
posters
distributed
and
hung
in
all
firehouses
to
tell
us
that
firefighters
develop
and
die
from
cancer
at
a
much
higher
rate
than
the
general
population.
It's
been
proven
by
a
medical
expert
that
my
cancer
is
a
result
of
my
exposure
to
the
chemical
family
called
dioxins
which
can
be
found
to
be
present.
Numerous
fires
and
hazmat
incidents
that
I've
responded
to
throughout
my
career
as
a
philadelphia
firefighter
and
hazardous
materials
technician
for
the
city
of
philadelphia.
S
The
dioxins
found
that
diesel
exhaust
fumes
were
present
in
all
fire
houses.
The
walls
of
the
apparatus
floors
and
many
firehouses
were
covered
with
the
soot
from
the
apparatus
our
firefighting
gear
stored.
Next
to
the
apparatus
was
not
clean
on
a
regular
basis.
For
years
in
my
career,
the
contaminants
from
fire
to
fire
were
consistently
present
each
time
we
donned
our
gear,
while
proven
to
the
cleaning
of
the
gear
and
capturing
of
the
diesel
exhaust
have
been
implemented
in
recent
years.
S
S
S
S
S
S
Our
families
have
done
nothing
wrong
other
than
be
a
family
member
of
a
philadelphia
fire
department
member.
They
should
not
have
to
suffer
just
to
lose
the
loved
one
because
of
their
occupation,
but
the
hardship
to
fight
a
second
time
to
secure
their
well-being.
After
I'm
gone,
I
live
by
the
words
from
a
song.
That's
close
to
me:
bring
the
fight
to
this
world,
while
you
can
make
the
most
of
the
rest
of
your
life
shine
your
light
on
this
world.
While
you
can,
I
will
continue
to
do
data
for
the
rest
of
my
time.
S
C
S
S
If,
if
my
cancer
is
pursued
to
be
line
of
duty
death,
which
it
should
be,
my
wife
receives
lifetime
medical
benefits
other
than
that,
and
one
of
the
reasons
why
I've
gone
through
treatments,
I've
gone
through
radiation
treatments
during
the
day
and
showed
up
at
work.
That
night
worked
all
night
long.
I
did
that
for
weeks,
because
I
was
trying
to
save
my
sick
time
for
my
wife,
because
she
would
need
the
conversion
that
we
could
do
when
we
retire.
She
needs
those
medical
benefits.
S
For
me,
that's
what
it's
about
it's
it's,
not
necessarily
for
my
coverage
and
my
treatment
right
now.
You
know
it's
for
who
I
leave
behind
in
this
world.
It's
for
my
family,
it's
for
them
to
be
taken
care
of
they're,
my
wife's,
I'm
I'm
51
years
old.
Okay,
I
have
I
had
a
long
life
ahead
of
me.
Okay,
I
I
may
not
be
here
to
my
52nd
birthday.
S
S
You
know
other
firefighters,
that's
why
the
state,
in
my
opinion,
passed
this
law
and
that's
why
I
think
the
city
of
philadelphia
should
abide
by
the
law,
and
you
know
give
myself
and
other
firefighters
who
have
died
of
cancer
and
are
fighting
cancer
right
now.
Those
benefits
that
they
deserve.
They
shouldn't
have
to
use
all
their
time
up
and
you
know
rely
on
people
for
donations
in
the
sick
bank
and
cash
dog
relief
bank.
They
shouldn't
have
to
do
that.
This
is
a
work
related
illness
that
needs
to
be
covered
under
city
philadelphia.
C
S
Absolutely
I
couldn't
have
could
have
said
it
better
this
when
this
law
was
passed
years
ago.
There
was
a
great
sense
of
I
want
to
say:
relief
throughout.
You
know
the
the
members
of
the
fire
department,
because
now
we
knew-
and
we
I've
seen
I've
seen
multiple
people
that
I
worked
with
and
and
loved
dearly.
S
You
know,
shortly
after
they
retire
pass
on
from
cancer.
I've
seen
people
on
the
job
that
I've
worked
with
pass
on
from
cancer
and
then
knowing
that
you
know
it
when
this
law
passed
and
knowing
that
that
happened.
For
me
personally,
I
felt
a
sense
of
I
guess
you
should
say
relief
to
a
point,
because
I
know
if,
for
some
reason
I
I
knew
that
if
I
died
in
a
fire
the
next
day,
you
know-
and
you
know
I've
been
to
those
where
our
members
were
killed
in
the
line
of
duty.
S
S
It
gave
myself
and
other
firefighters
a
sense
of
relief
that
the
city
would
take
care
of
our
families,
because
we
put
on
that
uniform
every
day
and
that's
what
it
did
for
me.
It
knows
that
my
family
will
be
taken
care
of
afterwards.
That's
that's
the
main
point
of
all
this,
and
this
is
why
we're
fighting
this.
Why
I'm
fighting
this?
Why
you're
going
to
see
other
members?
You
know
talking
about
that
and
fighting
for
this.
S
It's
it's
to
give
our
sen
our
family
a
sense
of
security,
knowing
that,
yes,
there,
my
wife
has
been
beside
me.
This
whole
thing,
my
friends
have
been
beside
me.
My
members
of
the
fire
department
have
been
beside
me
the
whole
time
you
know
through
treatments
and
things
like
that
and
being
sick
and
not
being
able
to
move,
but
knowing
that
they're
taken
care
of
after
I
pass
on.
T
Good
afternoon
councilman,
oh
and
the
other
members
of
the
public
health
and
human
services
committee,
my
name
is
cherylin
murphy,
I'm
the
risk
management
council
and
the
employee
disability
manager
for
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
with
me
today
is
barry
scott.
He
is
the
risk
manager
for
the
city
of
philadelphia.
T
We
want
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
provide
testimony
a
resolution,
two
one:
zero
zero,
four
six,
which
authorizes
a
hearing
to
examine
the
city's
compliance
with
the
pennsylvania,
firefighter
cancer
presumption
law.
Mr
scott
is
going
to
provide
the
testimony
and
I'm
available
afterwards
for
any
questions
that
you
might
have.
Mr
scott.
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
councilmember,
oh
and
council
members
and
members
of
the
gallery.
My
name
is
barry
scott
and
I'm
the
deputy
director
of
finance
for
risk
management,
and
I'm
here
to
provide
additional
testimony
today
on
resolution,
two
one:
zero,
zero.
Four
six
cancer
is
a
commonly
occurring
group
of
diseases
with
various
causes,
not
all
of
which
are
occupational
act.
E
E
E
E
C
C
There
being
none,
I
do
have
a
question
for
you
in
this
process.
It
appears
that
there's
a
low
threshold
for
a
firefighter
with
cancer
to
overcome,
and
that
is
to
show
that
they
have
worked
for
four
years
or
more,
as
as
a
firefighter
that
there
is
a
possibility
under
the
law,
a
possibility
that
the
type
of
cancer
the
k
in
in
group
one
is
something
that
they
have
contracted.
C
T
Councilman,
oh,
I
would
take
that
question.
That
is
a
good
summation
of
the
law,
but
on
causation
the
employee
does
have
a
burden
of
causation
to
prove,
and
you
did
state
correctly
that
that
is
a
general
causative
link
between
a
group,
one
carcinogen
and
also
the
specific
type
of
cancer
that
the
employee
has
there's
also
time
constraints
that
are
imposed
upon
these
cases.
You
also
indicated
correctly
that
there
has
to
be
continuous
fire
fighting
duties
for
four
years.
T
There
also
has
to
be
a
pre-injury
cancer-free
diagnosis,
and
there
has
to
be
direct,
a
direct
link
between
the
group
1
carcinogen
and
the
cancer
that
the
person
has.
So
once
these
elements
are
met,
then
the
presumption
takes
place,
but
we
want
to
make
it
clear,
councilman,
o
that
there
are
conditions
preceding
precedence
to
the
presumption
coming
into
play,
and
it's
not
just
a
matter
of
whether
a
person
is
a
firefighter
and
then
they
have
cancer
and
then
their
their
claim
is
compensable.
T
C
T
C
T
T
We
look
at
risk
factors
when
we
make
that
initial
determination
before
the
burden
moves
to
the
the
city
to
establish
anything.
There
has
to
be-
and
I'm
going
to
speak
in
lawyer
terms,
which
I
know
you
are
full
aware
of
this.
You
practiced
that
there's
got
to
be
some
type
of
primo
fascia
case.
There's
got
to
be
some
elements
established
to
to
meet
the
initial
burden
of
causation
that
the
employee
has
to
meet
before
the
presumption
ever
comes
into
play.
T
So
there
has
to
be
an
independent
cause.
That's
not
work
related!
That's
what
the
court
says,
the
presumption
that
can
be
rebutted
by
the
employer,
we're
not
talking
about
general
causation,
we're
talking
about
something
specific,
and
that
was
from
the
slated
case
and
that
comes
directly
from
the
language
of
the
statute.
C
Thank
you.
I
do
have
as
a
witness
a
gentleman
you're
very
familiar
with
michael
dryden,
who
in
fact
represents
chief
narcan
and
and
others.
However,
he
is
unfortunately
scheduled
for
a
conflicting
hearing.
I
hope
he
can
get
back
to
us
before
at
the
end
of
this
this
hearing.
However,
I
do
have
his
written
testimony
about
the
case
and
the
interpretation
of
the
case
and
it-
and
it
seems
to
me
where
we
are-
is.
C
What
presumption
means
under
the
law-
and
I
suppose
perhaps
you
know
that
that
is
an
issue
that
we're
trying
to
understand
at
this
point
in
time.
I
know
we
cannot
go
into
any
individual
case,
but
collectively
the
cases
seem
to
be
one
where
a
presumption
is
a
purposeful
decision
about
not
contesting
very
difficult
proofs
for
public
policy
reasons,
and
if
the
third
party
administrator
or
the
risk
management
or
the
law
department
is
fighting
in
a
very
vigorous
and
aggressive
manner.
C
T
Councilman,
oh,
the
only
thing
that
I
wanted
to
add
is
to
assure
you
and
every
other
council
member
and
everyone
in
the
audience
that
the
city
is
definitely
complying
with
the
firefighter
cancer
presumption.
We
take
these
cases
very
seriously.
We
investigate
each
case
on
a
case-by-case
basis.
We
reach
out
to
the
employees
to
get
their
side
of
the
story
as
to
what
happened.
T
We
try
to
get
as
much
medical
information
as
we
possibly
can
within
a
condensed
period
within
which
we
have
to
do
these
investigations,
and
we
are
working
very
hard,
alongside
our
tpa
as
the
third
party
administrator,
to
make
sure
that
all
of
our
employees
who
are
entitled
to
benefits
under
act
46
get
those
benefits.
So
we
are
working
hard
to
be
fair
and
to
do
what's
best
not
only
for
them,
but
also
for
the
city
and
mr
scott.
I
didn't
know
if
you
had
anything
to
add
to
that.
E
Medical
information
is
complex
and
needs
to
be
gathered
in
order
to
make
those
kinds
of
determinations
about
cancers,
and
sadly,
cancer
is
very
common
in
this
country
and
in
fact,
in
the
city
and
in
fact
the
pennsylvania
city
has
a
higher
rate
of
of
cancer
than
the
state,
and
so
there
are
a
number
of
people
in
philadelphia
who
will
come
down
with
cancer.
That
has
absolutely
nothing
to
do
with
their
jobs
and
so
part
of
what
we're
charged
with
doing
in
risk
management.
C
Thank
you
very
much.
I
see
our
our
chairperson
has
returned.
Thank
you
very
much
I'll.
Just
note
that
I
appreciate
your
testimony.
It
is
in
dispute
the
city
of
course,
hires
the
third
party
administrator
and
basically
it's
a
competitive
bid
where
they
will
do
what
they
are
hired
to
do.
If
they
don't
do
what
they're
hired
to
do,
they
won't
have
a
contract,
but
but
you
know,
I
appreciate
your
testimony
and
I'll
return
it
to
our
chairperson.
Thank
you.
A
C
A
P
P
As
members
like
myself
and
chief
narcan
have
a
smoking
history
yeah
we
do
because
for
years
in
the
firehouses
in
this
city,
the
diesel
exhaust
from
those
trucks
filtered
the
whole
firehouse,
the
sleeping
areas,
the
birthing
areas,
the
kitchen
areas
and
the
city
fought
us
tooth
and
nail
to
get
a
system
to
expel
those
fumes
from
the
firehouses
and
at
one
point
they
actually
put
these
horse
crap
recycler
systems
that
were
hung
from
the
ceiling.
That
did
absolutely
nothing.
They
spent
millions
of
dollars
on
it.
They
had
to
be
taken
out.
P
It
follows
it
out
on
its
way
back
in
so
it
does
a
very
good
job
of
keeping
the
diesel
fumes
from
the
members
and
I'll
tell
you
another
thing
from
having
27
years
on
the
job,
no
matter
what
the
fire
is,
whether
it's
a
rubbish
fire
outside
auto
fire,
a
house
fire
building
fire.
We
are
saturated
with
carcinogens
from
that
smoke.
There's
particles
in
that
smoke,
and
you
you,
I
know
you've
been
around
them
as
best
you've,
probably
seen
many
fires
in
the
city.
P
You
can
see
it
in
the
smoke
plumes
and
I
I
want
to
go
back
to
you
know.
I
said
this
earlier.
The
mayor
can
fix
this
tomorrow
with
chief
market,
and
one
thing
I
think
people
elected
in
the
office
forget
sometimes-
and
I'm
not
accusing
anybody
on
this
panel-
and
most
of
you
know
this.
Your
number
one
job
is
public
safety
to
protect
the
public
and
when
firefighters,
police
officers
etc.
P
P
P
4Th
kenny
57
will
be
sworn
in
as
99th
mayor
of
philadelphia,
but
he
wouldn't
arrive
here
without
the
early
influences
he
received
from
two
street
neighborhood,
where
he
learned
loyalty
and
when
I
seen
loyalty,
there's
no
loyalty
here
now
to
chief
market
and
the
next
paragraph
it
talked
about
mayor
kennedy's,
father
kenny's,
early
memories
of
his
household
were
knowing
when
his
father
was
home,
the
puberty
smell
of
burnt
wood
and
rubber
would
walk
through
the
small
house.
Signaling
dad
was
there
for
four
days
and
it's
four
days
old.
First,
so
that's
two!
P
P
The
the
third
party
administrators
should
look
back
to
the
the
diesel
exhaust
that
was
expelled
through
the
stations
when
the
top
of
the
walls
and
the
ceilings
were
black
with
diesel
tubes.
So
a
little
history
needs
to
be
put
into
place
with
the
third
party
ministry,
especially
in
chief
market's
case.
A
Well,
I
could
not
agree
with
you
more
I've
been
to
every
fire
station
in
my
district,
and
I
know
the
conditions.
The
environmental
conditions
in
those
buildings
is
just
really
outrageous
and
have
been
for
decades.
I
mean
you
know
like
the
these
facilities,
and
you
know
we
ask
people
to
essentially
live
there,
as
you
mentioned
for
four
days
on
four
days
off
these
conditions
are
totally
unacceptable
and
you
know
if
I
know
it,
then
I
know
you
know
doggone
well,
that
the
administration
knows
it.
A
Like
I
said
I've
been
in
every
fire
station
in
my
district
I
know
you
know
some
of
the
things
that
I've
seen,
which
really
shouldn't
fly,
I'm
talking
about
raw
sewage
in
the
basement,
I'm
talking
about
mold
and
mildew.
I'm
talking
about
you,
know,
exhaust
fumes
and
not
with
without
the
proper
ventilation,
and
these
are
things
that
have
existed
for
many
many
years.
So
it's
no
wonder
that
you
know
people
will
get
sick.
A
You
know
it's
a
miracle,
you
know,
and
I
knock
on
wood.
Thank
god
we
don't
have
even
more
people
sick,
you
know,
but
we
don't
want
that,
but
we
do
want
for
the
city
to
recognize
that
this
has
been
an
ongoing
problem
for
a
very
long
time
and
it
needs
to
be
addressed
and
it
needs
to
be
addressed
with
workers
first
and
buildings
very
closely.
Second,
it
has
to
be
addressed
as
soon
as
possible.
P
E
E
E
E
E
P
E
No,
what
we're
saying
is
that,
and
you
know,
and
and
so
with
regard
to
chiefs,
narcan's
claim,
which
is
currently
in
litigation-
you
know
we're
not
going
to
be.
You
know,
sort
of
providing
any
specific
information
with
regard
to
this
claim.
The
that
process
is
ongoing.
With
regard
to
the
specific
claim.
P
Are
we
we
need
more
time
to
review
it
it
just
it
just
seemed
like
the
city
was
uncaring
or
unwilling
to
to
look
into
this
and
then
seemed
like.
We
were
waiting
out
this
issue
until
maybe
something
you
know
happened
in
the
long
run
it
just
it
just
it
just
felt
bad.
It
felt
bad
from
the
city
perspective.
It
felt
bad
as
a
council
person
representing
a
constituent,
and
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
this
will
never
happen
again.
P
But
my
fear
is
that
when
we
have
these
issues
come
to
us
if
we
are
not
going
to
be
transparent
and
then
actually
review
these
in
in
a
way
that
people
believe
that
we're
taking
them
serious
it'll
be
a
real
challenge
for
us
here
on
council
to
be
able
to
support
these
decisions
by
the
administration.
So
I
you
know,
I
think
we
as
council
still
need
additional
answers.
A
D
D
E
Certainly,
we
we
request
some
information
from
the
claimant,
about
the
claim-
that's
especially
critical
in
the
cases
like
of
of
an
of
a
disease
as
opposed
to
an
injury.
It's
also
important
in
an
injury
that
we
get
information
from
the
claim.
That's
usually
done
on
a
on
an
accident
and
injury
form
that
the
city
uses.
E
However,
on
in
cases
where
there's
an
allegation
of
a
disease
that
there's
information
that
we
need
to
get
in
order
to
say
you
know
what
the
disease
is
specifically,
what
the
what
the
relationship
that
the
the
disease
has
to
the
employees
employment
in
order
to
make
the
determination
for
compensability
in
general.
That's
the
information
that
we're
looking
for
with
regard
to
a
work-related
illness,
that
someone
is
alleging.
E
D
E
So
the
city's
risk
management
division
under
its
employee
disability
program
provides
oversight.
We
have
cherylin
murphy,
who
is
our
employee
disability
manager
and
also
is
a
risk
management
council.
She
is
employed
through
the
law
department
in
risk
management
to
oversee
the
employee
disability
program.
E
D
So
if
it's
going
directly
to
the
employee,
how
we're
providing
oversight
of
those
entities
when
those
entities
are
making
that
determination
and
a
determination
going
directly
to
the
employee-
and
you
have
situations
like
this,
where,
within
a
24
hour
period
from
my
understanding
this
entity,
based
on
what
you
led
provided,
was
supposed
to
receive
certain
information
from
the
employee
review
it.
How
could
that
occur
in
a
24-hour
perspective?
And
how
can
the
city
provide
oversight
if
the
entities
provide
information
directly
to
the
employee
and
we're
learning
about
this
anomaly
after
the
fact.
E
So,
as
I
said
after
this
incident
with
this
particular
claim
we
have,
we
have
edited
our
process
in
order
to
assure
that
that
there
is
in
fact
a
greater
exchange
of
information
and-
and
we
have
increased
our
oversight
in
risk
of
this
process.
To
assure
that,
we
are
considering
all
the
aspects
that
need
to
be
considered
before
we
make
a
determination
of
compensability
for
a
claim.
D
A
I
I
am
good
afternoon
chairwoman
bass.
How
are
you
I'm
very
well?
How
are
you
I'm?
Okay,
I'm
sorry.
I
had
to
step
away
because
I
had
a
hearing
that
I
had
to
attend
to
prior
to
getting
back,
so
my
prepared
remarks
had
had
included
sort
of
a
history
of
where
we
came
from
the
law,
and
I
know,
and
with
some
of
the
witnesses
you
have
dr
scott,
and
I
don't
know
if
miss
murphy
testified.
A
I
Yes
ma'am,
my
name
is
michael
dryden
and
I
am
the
head
of
the
workers,
compensation
and
occupational
disease
department
at
willie
williams
and
davidson.
I'm
a
law
firm
in
philadelphia.
That
m
is
not
actually,
as
we
sit
here,
counsel
specifically
to
local
22,
but
I
represent
several
local
22
firefighters
in
cancer
claims
and
have
evaluated
probably
about
250
firefighter
cancer
claims.
Since
this
law
was
passed,
and
I
would
like
to
begin
briefly
with
some
history
of
the
law,
it
became
law
in
july
of
2011
when
act
46
and
was
signed
by
the
governor.
I
What
happened
was
that
the
legislation
amended
section
108
of
the
pennsylvania
workers,
compact
and
occupational
disease
in
pennsylvania
workers
comp
is
actually
a
term
of
art.
It
only
refers
to
the
diseases
listed
in
section
108
and
the
act
46
amendments
placed
cancer
and
that
is
caused
by
an
iarc
group.
One
carcinogen
will
be
considered
an
occupational
disease
for
a
firefighter
it
added
that
definition
to
the
list
of
a
potential
occupational
disease.
I
It
also
added
section
301,
f
to
the
pennsylvania
workers,
comp
law,
which
sets
forth
a
criteria
that
a
firefighter
has
to
meet
in
order
to
make
the
claim
they
have
to
have
at
a
minimum
of
four
years
of
continuous
fire
service
exposure
to
what
are
known
called
known.
Human
carcinogens
really
specifically
identifying
the
international
agency
for
research
on
cancer,
which
I'll
refer
to
as
iarc,
which
is
an
agency
of
the
world
health
organization
that
you
know,
grades
and
rates,
different,
even
occupations,
agents,
chemicals
as
for
their
carcinogenicity,
and
then
the
firefighter
has
to.
I
That
was
the
law,
as
provided
by
the
general
assembly,
and
that,
as
I
said,
happened
july
2011
from
july
2011.
Until
2018,
we
fought
like
cats
and
dogs
over
what
that
language
meant,
and
when
I
say
we
I
mean
myself
and
counsel
for
different
insurance
companies,
including
the
able
council
that
the
city
of
philadelphia
has
handling
these
camps.
We
fought
for
different
interpretations
of
the
law
in
2018,
the
supreme
court
of
pennsylvania
decided
the
sladic
decision
s-l-a-d-e-k
and
sladek.
I
Mr
sladek
is
a
chief
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
fire
department
he's
still
active
and
his
case
set
the
burdens
of
proof
placed
on
a
firefighter
making
a
cancer
claim
in
pennsylvania
of
note
and
when
the
supreme
court
decided.
This
case
is
that
they
were
very,
very
clear
with
the
burden
of
proof
they
they
laid
out
the
firefighter's
initial
burden
as
a
two-step
burden,
which
was
first
to
show
that
that
firefighter
was
diagnosed
with
a
cancer.
I
That's
a
type
of
cancer,
possibly-
and
that's
a
key
word
in
this,
possibly
caused
by
an
iarc
group,
one
carcinogen.
So
if
the
cancer
is
a
type
that's
possibly
caused
by
an
iarc
group,
one
carcinogen,
the
firefighters
met
that
initial
burden.
The
iarc
publishes
a
lot
of
literature
that
we've
used
in
these
cases,
which
I
think,
makes
or
provides
definitive
proof
of
the
carcinogens
that
are
related
to
specific
cancers
and
they
provided
literature
in.
I
I
And
even
now
I'm
told
from
some
of
my
clients
that
there
still
are
some
problems
with
that.
So
that
means
that
when
the
firefighters
in
the
firehouse,
with
the
truck
run
and
if
I
shut
my
mouth
for
three
minutes
and
we
just
watched
an
engine
run,
the
room
would
fill
up
pretty
pretty
quickly
with
diesel
emissions.
I
Monograph
105
from
the
iarc
at
page
41
provides
a
laundry
list
of
carcinogens
that
you'll
encounter
when
you
breathe
in
diesel
emissions,
so
those
those
that
those
documents
that
information
from
the
iarc,
when
coupled
with
another
document
from
the
iarc
that
lists
carcinogens
by
cancer
site,
makes
it
pretty
straightforward
these
days
to
be
able
to
say
what
cancers
are
related
or
possibly
related
to
group
one
carcinogens,
kidney
cancer,
liver
cancer,
leukemia
non-hodgkin's,
lymphoma,
multiple
myeloma,
malignant
melanoma
just
to
name
a
few
are
cancers
that
are
clearly
related
to
group.
One
carcinogens,
mr
narkin's.
I
I
So,
every
time
a
firefighter
like
chief
narcan
was
exposed
to
diesel
emissions
without
a
mask
on
his
face
or
smoke
or
soot,
he
was
exposed
to
the
carcinogen,
that's
related
to
his
type
of
cancer,
and
that
that's
where,
when
I
was,
I
came
in,
as
I
heard
dr
scott,
you
know
concluding
his
remarks.
You
know.
I
think
I
think
that
what
I
struggle
with
with
this
is
this
was
now
matured
and
in
maturing
we
do
understand
what
cancers
are
related
to
group
one
carcinogens.
I
The
second
phase
of
this,
the
the
section
301
f
criteria,
no
one's
ever
disputed
that
with
mr
narkin
he's
got
way
more
than
four
years
of
continuous
service
and
he's
got
exposure
to
carcinogens
and
he
had
clean
physicals
that
what
what
happened
here
and
why
it
only
took
pma,
not
the
city,
not
dr
scott,
not
miss
murphy
but
pma.
Why
only
took
them
24
hours
to
decide
to
deny
mr
narkin
was?
He
has
a
very
rare
form
of
soft
tissue
sarcoma
so
when
they
saw
that
somebody
there
said
aha
here
we
go.
Here's
our
defense.
I
This
is
how
we're
going
to
defend
this
came.
We
can
say
no
to
this
firefighter
because
he
has
this
rare
form
of
soft
tissue
sarcoma.
So,
let's
throw
him
to
his
proof.
Let's
make
him
go,
find
a
lawyer.
Make
him
go,
find
an
expert
to
be
able
to
establish-
and
this
case
I
think
that
you
know
kind
of
that's
at
the
heart
of
what
I
see
as
the
problem
really
and
for
not
just
the
city
of
philadelphia,
but
several
municipalities
now
that
this
law
is
more
than
a
decade
old.
I
Is
that
they've
outsourced
the
decision
on
whether
one
of
their
public
safety
employees
is
going
to
get
a
benefit
for
cancer
to
basically
an
insurance
company
and
that
insurance
company
does
what
you
hire
an
insurance
company
to
do
or
what
they
generally
do.
In
my
experience
as
someone
representing
injured
workers
for
30
years,
is
they
sniff
out
the
defense?
If
there
is
a
two
percent
chance
of
a
defense,
they
are
going
to
take
it
they're,
going
to
take
it
and
say:
okay?
I
Well,
we're
going
to
say
no
to
this
guy
and
put
him
to
his
proof,
because
there
is
no
data
on
mr
narkin's
very
rare
form
of
soft
tissue
sarcoma,
but
under
the
way,
our
the
way
that
I
read
our
law
is
that
we
are
the
law,
specifically
references,
the
iarc.
When
you
go
to
the
iarc,
there
is
no
subtype
for
mr
narkin's
very
rare
type
of
soft
tissue
sarcoma,
but
they
do
tell
you
that
soft
tissue
tumors
are
related
to
dioxin.
I
So,
my
belief
and-
and
I
don't-
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
chief
narcan-
and
I'm
certainly
not
here
for
the
union,
but
my
belief
is
that
if
maybe
we
had
some
city
employees
who
were
making
this
decision-
and
we
could
go
to
them
and
say
hey
look-
this
soft
tissue
sarcoma
is
related
to
dioxin
he's
covered
there.
Dioxin
is
a
group
one
carcinogen,
that's
related
to
his
cancer.
He
made
the
108r
you're,
never
going
to
contest
any
of
the
301
f
criteria.
I
I
They
know
it's
impossible,
meaning
pma.
So
because
chief
norken
didn't
come
in
and
say
I
have
a
very
rare
form
of
soft
tissue.
Sarcoma
and
soft
tissue
sarcoma
is
related
to
dioxin,
and
that
means
that
I
meet
the
initial
burden
of
section
108r
and
here's
my
fire
service
and
I
was
exposed
to
smoke
soot
and
diesel
emissions
without
the
protection
of
an
scba.
I
When
I
fought
fires
when
I
participated
in
a
portion
of
firefighting
called
overhaul
where
firefighters
pull
apart,
walls
and
ceilings
even
to
this
day,
they
don't
wear
the
scba
all
the
way
through
overhaul.
So
if
you
don't
wear
the
scba
all
the
way
through
overhaul
you're
going
to
breathe
in
smoke
that
every
study
that's
involved
in
these
cases
says,
is
the
most
damaging
and
portion
of
interior
firefighting.
As
far
as
cancer
risk
goes,
that's
still
happening.
I
You
know,
and
and-
and
I
think
that
the
the
fact
that
he
doesn't
show
up
with
that
specific
information
for
pma
who's
been
instructed
on
how
this
law
can
be
defended
or
how
a
claim
can
be
defended
under
this
law
has
led
to
this
problem
that
we
have,
because
he
is
mr
narkin
is
not
alone.
He
has
a
very
rare
cancer,
but
the
treatment
of
his
claim
was
not
very
different
than
many
of
them
before
I've
known
dr
scott
for
a
lot
of
years.
I
I
have
other
people
who
it
may
not
have
been
a
day,
but
it
might
have
been
three
days,
and
you
know
that
probably
was
only
because
the
adjuster
pma
was
off
for
a
couple
of
days,
because
they
were
denying
these
cases
right
out
of
hand.
They
were
always
forcing
the
firefighter
to
come,
make
their
proof
and-
and
I
think
that
there's
just
a
a
better,
more
human
way
to
do
this.
I
And
I
I
I
think
that
there's
a
dichotomy
or
a
split
between
the
fire
department
and
the
way
the
administration
and
risk
management
and
pma
handle
them
when
you,
I
I
when
we
split
the
slate
of
case,
is
mike's
case
and
scott
sladek,
and
I
were
on
tv
together.
It's
where
I
learned
to
hopefully
do
lighting
a
little
better
today
than
I'm
doing
than
I
did
during
that
interview
anyway,
but
the
when
we
were
at
that
interview.
I
They
cut
a
piece
of
them
that
out
that
I
think
was
really
really
impactful,
and
that
is
that
the
fire
department
has
moved
to
do
things
better.
The
union
has
pushed
to
do
things
better
and
the
department
leadership.
They
see
that
no
one
knows
more
about
the
risks
that
they
face
than
those
men
and
women
and
they're
doing
better
they're
doing
better
with
the
diesel
capture
systems
with
cleaning
gear
with
how
long
they
wear
the
self-contained
breathing
apparatus.
So
the
department
is
making
and
is
emphasizing
hey.
I
We
have
to
do
better
to
mitigate
our
cancer
risk
and
that's
only
recently
started,
but
while
it's
admirable
that
you've
started
that
now,
what
about
the
men
and
women
men,
like
mr
narkin
chief
narcan,
who
were
exposed
for
decades
before
all
of
that
stuff
happened?
You
know
so
so
at
this
point
we're
identifying
the
problem,
we're
trying
to
fix
the
problem,
but
when
someone
shows
up
with
a
cancer
who
worked
his
way
through
that
other
way,
that
was
being
done,
the
more
risky
way
that
was
being
done
for
decades.
I
N
I
I
won't
miss.
Miss
murphy
can
speak
for
herself.
Her
job
is
to
defend
these
cases
when
they
roll
in.
If
she
can
find
appointed
defender
the
lawyers
that
they
hire
once
you
hire
a
lawyer
to
do
something
that
lawyer's
ethically
banned
to
go,
try
to
figure
out
a
way
to
represent
you
because
you're
the
client
right,
miss
murphy's
ethically
bound
to
do
that
for
the
city
of
philadelphia.
I
I
Firefighters
in
cancer
is,
is
a
is
a
good
example,
but
it's
part
of
a
part
of
a
bigger
issue
that
who's
deciding
these
cases,
because
if
it's
pma
we're
going
to
get
a
denial
on
just
about
every
cancel
cancer
case,
unless
somebody
from
risk
intervenes
and
while
they
have
been
doing
better
they've,
been
doing
better,
mostly
with
the
least
expensive
cancers,
I
think
they
might
have
had
a
meeting
with
pma
to
say
basal
cell
carcinoma.
I
got
a
little
bit
of
that
being
treated
here
with
this,
I
got
some
cream
in
here.
I
That's
supposed
to
be
taking
care
of
my
own
little
basal
cell
carcinoma
situation
is
not
a
big
deal
right.
This
is
this
is
about
as
bad
as
it's
going
to
get.
What
you
see
on
my
face,
the
redness
in
my
face
from
the
cream
I'm
taking,
and
I
won't
need
to
do
anything
else
for
it
so
accepting
that
is
not
the
biggest
deal
and,
and
that
would
have
been
where
I
would
have
left
it.
I
You
can
find
some
defensible
point
something
that
you're
gonna
point
to,
even
if
it's
from
from
my
money
as
ridiculous
as
it
is
in
chief
narkin's
case,
where
you
point
to
the
fact
that
his
cancer
is
so
rare
that
we're
going
to
ignore
the
fact
that
it's
in
a
category
that's
clearly
related
to
group,
1
carcinogens
and
we're
going
to
say.
There's
you
know
you
haven't
been
able
to
prove
that
your
specific
subtype
is
related
to
group
one
carcinogens,
because
that
information
just
doesn't
exist.
I
It
doesn't
exist
for
his
rare
subtype,
but
it
also
doesn't
exist
for
many
rare
subtypes
of
leukemia
and
lymphoma,
all
of
which
were
getting
found.
Compensable
in
the
pennsylvania
workers,
compensation
for
these
system,
for
these
firefighters
and
and
to
I'm
sure
I
didn't
I
didn't
get
to
hear
chief
nor
can
testify.
But
from
talking
to
him
in
the
past
I
mean
this.
I
A
C
I
The
chief
passes
away
and
then
we
would
file
a
fatal
claim
petition
to
add
it
to
the
the
what's
called
for
lack
of
a
better
term.
A
lifetime
claim
petition,
that's
pending
and
and
wait
for
the
judge's
result.
And
again,
you
know,
in
my
experience,
when
we've
had
a
situation
where
we
started
a
case
while
a
firefighter
was
alive
and
then
that
firefighter
passed
away
and
the
the
city,
through
its
lawyers
and
dr
scott,
have
been
reasonable
with
us.
I
If,
if
my
anticipation
is-
and
dr
scott
can
certainly
testify
for
himself,
but
if
we
win
this
lifetime
claim
petition
three
days
after
john
narkin
passes
away,
and
I
send
dr
scott,
the
notice
of
I
mean
excuse
me
his
death
certificate
when
we
get
it
and
it
says
that
it
was
related
to
the
cancer
that
they
will
then
award
fatal
benefits,
and
they
they
won't
make
us
fight.
Again,
is
generally
my
my
experience
and
with
them,
although
it
would
be
within
their
right
to
do
it,
and
that's
that's
also
councilman.
I
If
I
may,
that's
also
why
I
I
like
dealing
with
philly
people
over
my
philly
clients,
because
at
that
stage
of
it
the
man
I'm
dealing
with
is
dr
scott,
I'm
not
dealing
with
pma.
I
I
think
when
you
outsource
something
like
this,
you
invite
that
insurance
company
subculture
into
what
we
do
and
in
this
area
I
think
it
just
leads
to
denial
and
litigation.
C
So
you
mentioned
policy
and
practice,
and
ultimately
this
policy
in
practice
is
the
responsibility
administration,
I'll
just
state
that
the
council,
as
a
legislative
body.
We
cannot
do
certain
things
we
can
have
this
hearing.
We
can
certainly
do
resolutions,
but
policy
and
practice
is
up
to
the
administration
when
the
administration
outsources
to
a
third
party
administrator,
the
direct
handling
of
this
matter.
I
Of
the
day
for
me
it
it
makes
pms
pma
like
the
wizard
of
oz.
It's
the
the
person
behind
the
curtain
that
you
get
to
blame
when
nobody
wants
to
stand
there
and
say
I
am
the
city
official
who's
denying
john
narkin
and
his
family
the
benefit,
because
as
much
as
we
sit
here,
no
one's
going
to
stand
up
and
raise
their
hand
to
be
that
person
in
the
administration
and
and
they're
going
to
point
to
pma
and
say
our
our
third-party
contractor
has
decided
to
deny
this
and
here's
why
they
denied
it.
C
To
kind
of
given
a
a
different
analogy
for
people.
Listening
to
this
hearing,
I
mean
we're
dealing
with
covet
19
and
we
did
pass
a
bill
and
the
mayor
signed
it,
providing
a
protection
of
the
health
care
workers
who
are
exposed
to
treating
people
with
with
coven,
19
and
and
and
obviously,
an
example
is
a
nurse
who
is
in
the
icu
dealing
constantly
with
the
most
severe
cases
of
covet
19
and
then
when
he
or
she
puts
in
a
claim
that
they
have
coven
19
their
employer
says.
C
The
idea
that
we
now
have
a
presumption
that
you
got
it
at
work
could
possibly
be
challenged
by
a
third
party
administrator
to
say:
listen.
We
want
to
go
through
the
entire
possibility
that
your
sister,
your
brother,
your
father,
your
mother,
your
husband,
your
wife,
that
they
did
not
have
covet
19.
We
want
to
go
through
every
and
that
could
take
a
very
long
time.
But
that
does
not
appear
to
be
what
the
state
law
says.
C
The
state
law
says
that
there
is
a
presumption,
meaning
that
when
we
don't
know,
we
accept
that,
because
you
are
a
firefighter
and
we
want
you
to
serve
the
public
and
we
want
you
and
your
family
to
be
safe
and
we
want
people
not
to
consider
avoiding
the
the
public
safety
role
of
being
a
firefighter
that
you
have
this
presumption.
You
shall
not
be
burdened.
You
shall
not
be
called
to
task.
We
shall
accept
at
at
a
very
low
threshold.
The
fact
that
we
owe
you
and
your
family.
These
benefits.
I
Nope,
I
I
agree
and-
and
I
think
kovid's
the
next
thing
we're
going
to
see-
I'm
representing
several
philadelphia
police
officers
who
have
recently
received
denials
that
kovid's
work
related
and
from
pma,
even
a
couple
of
them
who
were
you
know
among
75
officers
in
a
demonstration
that
turned
up
with
covet
and
had
no
covert
prior
outside
of
work.
You
know
in
their
family.
I
I
I
think
that
the
the
the
that
deniability
that
we're
talking
about
with
cancer
for
firefighters,
I
I
think
we're
going
to
see
that
come
into
the
the
realm
of
how
covets
handled
for
long
talk,
long,
haul,
people,
you
know
long-haul
cover
people
with
those
symptoms
and
or
even
someone
who's.
You
know
back
to
work,
but
they're
still
coughing.
I
Pma,
like
they're
doing
with
these
firefighter
cancer
cases,
they're
going
to
enter
as
an
insurance
company,
denying
everything
and
having
people
put
to
their
proof
and
for
city
employees.
You
know
when
you're,
when
you're
put
to
your
proof,
really
employees
anywhere,
but
in
particular
for
city
employees,
once
it's
no
longer
considered
to
be
work
related
once
you're
telling
them
that
this
is
not
a
work-related
problem,
then
they
start
on
a
path
of
exhausting
their
recruit
time.
You
know
sick
time
and
vacation
time,
then
they're,
not
city
employees
anymore.
I
I
In
the
same
way
that
there's
been
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
weight
put
on
firefighters,
who
you
know,
are
going
to
come
through
the
window
of
your
house
to
save
your
kids
and
he's
not
thinking
about
breathing
breathing
what
he's
breathing
in
or
the
soot
or
what
his
risk
is,
and
the
legislature
said
he
gets
a
presumption
but
pma
and
and
in
their
role
in
this,
is
denying
those
claims
and
making
firefighters
come
fight.
For
that
benefit
and
at
a
way
more
high
percentage.
C
C
I'm
saying
that
is
what
the
public
wants,
but
the
city
has
a
responsibility
towards
its
its
firefighters,
its
public
safety
officers
in
compliance
with
state
law
and
a
presumption
that
I
understand,
a
presumption
is
a
presumption,
and
that's
where
we
are.
I
guess
the
final
analysis
is
that
the
policy
and
practice
will
will
be
a
a
will,
get
a
response
from
the
administration.
A
Well,
thank
you
very
much
councilman
and
thank
you
very
much
to
our
witness.
I
want
to
move
to
our
next.
I
know
we
have
several
folks
who
are
waiting
to
testify,
so
I'm
going
to
move
to
them
and
then
we'll
come
back
to
additional
questions
for
our
expert
witness.
If
anyone
has
additional
questions,
if
you
can
hang
around
mr
dryden
for
a
moment,
will
do
man
very
good?
Thank
you.
Can
we
have
the
clerk
call
the
next
speakers
on
the
witness
list.
A
A
E
Very
nicely
to
me
and
something
that
my
mother
always
wished.
I
am
not
a
doctor,
so
so
so
lots
of
lots
of
his
his
points
were
were
interesting,
that
that
one,
I
can
tell
you
for
sure,
is
not
accurate,
but
but
but
I
but
I,
but
I
I
appreciate
you,
know
the
work
and
certainly
that
mr
dryden
does
also
just
to
be
just
to
be
clear.
E
I
Much,
mrs
and
if
I
may
just
just
briefly,
first
sorry
for
giving
an
extra
credential
there,
mr
scott,
but
he's
been
around
long
enough-
that
I
guess
I
can
still
treat
him
as
a
doctor
and
the
the
the
second
part.
I
am
getting
personally
pma
denials
on
cova
cases.
So
maybe
we
need
to
have
a
dialogue
with
risk
management
about
that,
because
we
are
starting
to
see
them
come
in
even
for
officers.
Who've
been
out
for
months
with
covid
are
now
getting
denials.
S
Yes,
ma'am,
thank
you,
since
it
was
brought
up
in
the
questioning.
You
know.
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
the
and
I
feel
it
I
would
be
remiss
not
to
for
the
brothers
and
sisters
that
are
fighting
fighting.
The
cancer
claims
that,
during
the
recent
covet
epidemic,
the
current
pandemic
that
we're
all
in
there
have
been
firefighters
that
have
died
from
cobit
and
their
deaths
were
within
hours
approved
as
line
of
duty
deaths
because
of
the
presumption.
T
A
S
A
I
think
all
of
the
points
that
you
made
here
today
and
you
know
I
think
it
gave
a
level
of
heightened
awareness
to
the
average
citizen
about
what's
happening
from
the
people
that
we
expect
to
run
in
and
save
our
lives
and
take
care
of
us
and
and
help
us,
and
then
you
know
when
it
comes
to
helping
back
we're.
You
know
we're
not
being
so
helpful
all
the
time.
A
S
Well,
thank
you
very
much.
I
thank
you
very
much
councilwoman
for
that
and
my
wife
is
in
the
background
and
at
certain
points
is
hearing.
I
had
to
kind
of
keep
her
from
running.
You
know
jumping
through
the
screen,
but
she
is
the
main
reason
I'm
doing
this
and
you
know
hopefully
that
this
does
some
good
in
both
my
family
and
the
families
of
firefighters.
Fighting
cancer
will
be
able
to
get
some
conclusion
before
I
does.
S
A
A
Oh
okay,
okay,
all
right!
I
see
that
being
said
with
there
being
no
other
speakers
and
no
other
questions
for
members
of
council
this
committee
is
is
hereby
adjourned.
Thank
you
so
much
everyone
for
attending
and
for
your
patience
throughout
the
day,
and
this
was
a
really
good,
informative
and
most
necessary
hearing.
So
I
thank
you
councilman,
oh
for
your
resolution
on
this
issue
and
we'll
we
will
be
following
up
and
have
an
additional
conversation,
because
I
certainly
will
be
participating
in
that
as
well.