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From YouTube: Committee on Public Safety 3-23-2021
Description
The Committee on Public Safety of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Tuesday, March 23, 2021, at 9:30 AM, in a remote manner using Microsoft® Teams to hear testimony on the following items:
210090 Resolution authorizing the City Council Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings to examine more equitable solutions to crime scene cleanup policies that place the logistical and financial burden on the families of homicide victims.
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
understand
that
state
law
currently
requires
that
the
following
announcement
be
made
at
the
beginning
of
every
remote
public
hearing
is
followed
due
to
the
current
public
health
emergency
city.
Council
committees
are
meeting
remotely.
We
are
using
microsoft
teams
to
make
these
remote
hearings
possible
instructions
for
how
the
public
may
view
and
offer
public
testimony
at
public
hearings
of
council
committees
are
included
in
the
public
hearing,
notices
that
are
published
in
the
daily
news,
inquirer
and
legal
intelligence
are
prior
to
the
hearings
and
can
also
be
found
on
phl
counsel
com.
B
Everyone
who
has
been
invited
to
the
meeting
to
testify
should
be
aware
that
this
public
hearing
is
being
recorded
because
the
hearing
is
public.
Participants
and
viewers
have
no
reasonable
expectation
of
privacy
and
by
continuing
to
be
in
the
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
be
recorded
additionally
prior
to
councilman
jones,
recognizing
members
for
questions
or
comments
they
may
have
for
witnesses.
B
C
A
B
A
Thank
you,
and
before
I
begin
I'd
like
to
speak
to
this
resolution
during
the
pandemic,
covet
attacks
things
in
your
body,
often
that
have
pre-existing
conditions
and
or
are
weakened,
so
whether
you
have
a
a
heart
problem,
organ
problem,
a
high
blood
pressure
problem.
It
goes
right
to
it
and
exasperates
that
problem
covet
did
that
also
for
society.
A
Unintended
consequences
that
come
with
homicide
and
one
of
them
is
crime
scene
cleanups.
On
your
worst
day
on
the
on
the
day,
you
may
have
dreaded
it
and
and
have
a
nightmare
where
a
parent
may
have
to
prematurely
deal
with
funeral
arrangements
for
a
child
that
was
taken
away
due
to
senseless
gun
violence.
On
that
day,
they
also
are
made
aware
that
it
is
your
responsibility
to
clean
that
crime
scene.
A
So
what
we
want
to
do
is
make
sure
that
we
know
what
the
processes
are.
We
want
to
know
what
the
resources
are
that
are
available,
and,
finally,
if
there's
more,
we
can
do
by
way
of
support
to
the
victims
of
gun
violence.
We
want
to
do
that
as
well.
So
with
that,
are
there
any
other
members
of
the
committee
that
would
like
to
make
an
opening
statement.
H
Good
morning
my
name
is
natasha
daniela
to
lima
mclin
and
I'm
the
interim
executive
director
of
the
anti-violence
partnership
of
philadelphia
or
abp.
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
share
our
expertise
and
work
with
the
city
council's
committee
on
public
safety
in
support
of
resolution.
H
Two
one:
zero:
zero,
nine
zero,
which
is
intended
to
examine
more
equitable
solutions
to
crime
scene,
cleanup
policies
and
practices
that
currently
place
the
logistical
and
financial
burden
on
the
families
of
homicide
victims,
as
advocates
for
victims
of
crime,
family
members
and
friends
of
homicide,
victims
and
communities
impacted
by
homicide
and
violence.
We
very
much
appreciate
the
light
you're
shining
on
this
critical
issue.
H
H
Our
mission
is
to
end
a
cycle
of
violence
by
providing
a
wide
range
of
intervention,
prevention
and
support
services
to
children,
youth
and
adults
traumatized
by
exposure
to
violence
to
help
them
rebuild
their
lives
in
the
aftermath
of
violence.
Our
dedicated
staff
of
therapists,
counselors
and
victims
advocates
serve
approximately
three
thousand
clients
annually
in
2016,
adp
was
one
of
seven
national
organizations
awarded
a
grant
from
the
united
states
department
of
justice's
offices
office
of
victims
of
crime
to
enhance
systemic
responses
to
complex
homicides.
H
In
addition
to
the
profound
trauma
interviewees
described,
many
reported
the
unexpected
ordeal
of
having
to
clean
up
the
crime
scene.
While
this
experience
is
not
unique
to
intra-familial
acts
of
violence,
this
key
finding
expose
a
glaring
oversight
in
existing
policies
and
practices
that
impact
victims
and
survivors
across
philadelphia,
specifically
current
practices,
direct
the
philadelphia
police
department
and
support
personnel
to
travel
to
the
crime
scenes
to
gather
evidence
and
conduct
an
investigation,
but
do
not
address
the
need
for
cleaning
any
biohazardous
material
left
at
the
scene.
H
Existing
literature
suggests
that
proper
crimes
and
cleanup
cannot
be
performed
by
an
average
citizen
without
certification
and
training.
Additionally,
there
are
a
number
of
regulations
on
the
local
state
and
federal
levels
when
it
comes
specifically
to
biohazard
cleaning.
Yet,
while
these
rules
and
regulations
exist
to
protect
us
from
health
risks
by
exposure
to
dangerous
chemicals,
toxins
and
diseases
when
it
comes
to
crime,
scenes
victims
and
survivors
in
their
state
of
traumatic
shock,
are
typically
left
to
clean
up
the
crime
scene
themselves,
without
any
guidance
or
assistance
from
the
city.
H
Recognizing
these
notable
deficiencies,
abp
initiated
a
project
to
explore
crime
scene
cleanups.
Today
we
release
our
findings
in
a
report
entitled
blood
on
our
hands
addressing
crime
scene
cleanup
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
The
production
of
this
report
was
made
possible
by
subsequent
development
to
our
intra-familial
homicide.
Grant.
This
report
is
the
first
venture
of
its
kind
by
our
agency.
H
It
exemplifies
our
initiative
in
seeking
novel
and
proud
thematic
solutions
to
the
problems,
our
clients
and
the
citizens
of
philadelphia
face
as
a
result
of
incidents
of
violence
and
identifying
the
circumstances
faced
by
victims
and
survivors
of
homicide.
In
particular,
we
note
the
disproportionate
impact
on
philadelphians,
who
are
black
and
latin
of
the
2167
shootings
in
2020.
84
of
victims
were
black
and
nine
percent
were
latin
same
racial
inequity
is
true
for
homicide.
Co-Victimization,
83
percent
of
homicides
between
2016
and
2020
involve
black
victims
and
10
percent
involve
latin
victims
in
the
status
quo.
H
H
H
Thank
you
to
our
clients
for
trusting
us
and
for
courageously
being
here
with
us
today
to
share
their
experiences.
This
is
not
an
easy
matter
to
discuss.
In
fact,
several
clients
declined.
Several
clients
declined
the
opportunity
to
share
their
experiences
with
cleaning
up
crime
scenes
due
to
the
traumatic
nature
of
recounting
such
experience
to
our
clients
and
those
in
philadelphia
who
have
lost
so
much
of
violence.
We
are
all
here
because
of
you.
We
are
honored
and
humbled
to
serve.
H
You
thank
you
again
for
holding
this
hearing
for
examining
the
additional
burdens
imposed
by
victims
and
survivors
in
the
aftermath
of
their
loved
one's
murder
and
for
allowing
avp
to
be
here
today
at
the
table.
We
stand
ready
to
assist
in
any
way
possible
to
help
ensure
victims
and
survivors
in
philadelphia
are
served
and
supported
to
the
best
of
our
abilities
at
avp.
We
have
a
saying
here:
let
the
work
speak
for
itself.
On
that
note,
I
turn
it
over
to
my
colleagues,
stephanie
leclerc
and
san
marcolius.
I
I
You
natasha
thank
you
councilman
jones
and,
and
everyone
who
has
taken
part
in
all
of
this
work.
We
want
to
start
by
just
expressing
again
our
gratitude
for
the
opportunity
to
share
the
experiences
of
survivors
who
told
their
stories
as
part
of
this
research
in
the
hopes
of
making
changes
for
families
of
homicide
victims
in
the
future.
I
We
also
want
to
share,
has
natasha
just
mentioned
that
this
content
is
incredibly
traumatic,
and
this
presentation
includes
quotations
from
survivors,
graphic,
imagery
and
descriptions
of
scenes
after
acts
of
violence
across
the
city.
We
invite
everyone
to
please
take
care
of
themselves
if
you're
watching
at
home
if
you've
experienced
violence.
Personally,
please
take
care
of
yourself
in
whatever
way
you
need
to
so,
as
as
we've
mentioned,
our
key
finding
one
key
finding
in
this
research
next
slide.
Please
is
that
families
in
philadelphia
have
been
had
the
experience
of
cleaning
crime
scenes
themselves.
I
One
family
member
shared
this
quote
with
us,
and
we
want
to
start
out
by
just
sharing
this.
My
family
member
had
to
go
in
there
and
clean
off
the
walls
before
I
went
in
so
that
I
didn't
see
my
my
loved
one's
blood,
so
my
family
member,
I
told
him,
I
said
I
can't
go
back
in
there
until
we
do
some
cleanup.
He
said
I'll
go
in.
I
didn't
realize
how
we
all
grew
up
together.
Why
would
I
think
that
he
would
be
any
stronger
to
do
something
like
that
than
I
would
next
slide.
I
I
Institutionally
people
experiencing
homicide
and
violence
also
have
ongoing
institutional
harms
where
they
continue
to
experience
engagement
with
the
criminal
justice
system,
experience,
lack
of
communication
sometimes
and
challenges
in
communication
with
law
enforcement
experience
unsolved
cases
and
in
the
case
of
crime
scene.
Cleanup
often
have
this
experience
of
cleaning
crime
scenes
themselves
due
to
an
institutional
gap
in
practice,
so
families
when
they
return
to
the
scene
without
any
information,
often
find
the
bodily
remains
of
their
loved
ones.
This
poses
physical
health
risks
as
they
interact
with
blood
and
other
bodily
fluids.
I
J
Sorry,
I
can't
unmute
and
present
at
the
same
time,
apparently
okay,
so
in
terms
of
the
process
and
natasha
mentioned
this
a
little
bit
so
essentially
once
there
is
a
homicide.
The
law,
enforcement
and
crime
scene
technicians
go
to
the
scene
and
collect
evidence
and
ask
questions
of
the
witnesses,
and
then
later
the
deceased
is
taken
to
the
medical
examiner's
office
and
the
crime
scene
is
left
behind
with
blood
and
bully
remains
left
behind
and
at
some
point
in
this
process
the
survivors
are
notified,
which
is
the
first
level
of
trauma.
J
So
once
the
crime
scene,
technicians
and
the
police
department
leaves
the
crime
scene
again,
leaving
all
the
bodily
fluids
and
remains
behind
the
survivors
then
return
to
the
scene.
Often
they
are
not
notified
of
what's
awaiting
them
in
the
crime
scene
and
that's
another
level
of
trauma
when
they
come
in
and
see
the
blood
of
their
loved
one
everywhere.
J
Now,
in
the
fourth
step,
as
we
mentioned,
most
of
them
most
of
the
survivors
clean
the
crime
scene
themselves,
there
is
another
process
that
could
that
they
could
go
through,
which
is
higher
professional,
cleanup
company
for
two
thousand
and
twenty
thousand
dollars
which
we're
going
to
talk
about
more.
Why
there
are
barriers
to
this.
Let
me
stop
you
repeat
that
price
and
we're
gonna
go
over
it
again.
Two
thousand
and
twenty
thousand
dollars.
J
So
either
way
whether
they
go
through
a
professional
company
or
they
clean
the
crime
scene
themselves.
There
are
different
levels
of
trauma
that
we'll
talk
about
and
then
we're
gonna
go
through
the
barriers
for
why
survivors
do
not
end
up
hiring
professional
cleanup
services
and
end
up
cleaning
up
the
crime
scene
themselves.
J
So
who
does
this
impact?
And
natasha
mentioned
this?
If
we
look
at
the
the
victims
of
homicides
for
the
last
five
years,
so
2016
to
2020
93
of
homicide
victims
were
either
blacks
or
hispanic
victims
and
that's
true,
regardless
of
what
part
of
the
city
we're
looking
at.
If
we
look
at
a
specific
zip
code
and
we
look
at
the
demographics
of
the
area,
black
and
hispanic
victims
are
disproportionately
impacted
by
homicides,
even
in
specific
regions
of
philadelphia.
J
Now,
if
we
look
at
this
figure,
we
also
have.
We
can
also
see
that
the
dark
orange
areas
are
where
we
have
the
90
or
more
homicides
in
the
last
five
years,
and
if
we
look
at
the
poverty
rates,
those
lighter
areas
right
here
are
where
we
have
like
the
lightest
two
blue
areas
where
we
have
high
poverty.
J
Sorry,
the
darker
areas,
where
we
have
high
poverty
rates,
with
the
darkest
area
being
20
to
47
percent
below
poverty
rate
and
then
the
next
lighter
area
being
up
to
55
poverty
rate
and
then
and
then
crime
scene
cleanup,
doesn't
just
impact
homicide
victims.
It
also
impacts
any
survivors
of
violent
crimes
and,
as
we
know,
we
had
a
lot
of
shootings
last
year,
so
2167
each
of
those
generates
a
crime
scene.
So
we're
talking
specifically
about
homicides
today,
but
this
impacts
any
victim
of
a
violent
crime.
I
Families
in
this
in
this
time
are
in
an
acute
state
of
traumatic
shock.
People
discuss
experiences
of
feeling,
like
nothing,
is
real,
going
into
feeling
like
they're
up
out
of
their
bodies,
and
during
this
time
we
know
that
neurologically
people
are
cut
off
from
parts
of
the
brain
that
are
critical
for
planning
for
organizing
for
for
working
memory
for
language.
I
Research,
so
the
next
stage
of
this
process
that
people
also
have
to
research
providers
right
families
would
have
to
be
put
in
the
position
of
of
knowing
that
companies
exist
and
then
figuring
out
themselves
how
to
how
to
find
them
contact
them.
The
next
step
of
the
process
having
spoken
to
crime
scene
cleanup
companies,
is
that
they
actually
ask
very
detailed
questions
about
the
nature
of
the
crime.
They
ask
detailed
questions
about
the
caliber
of
the
weapon
that
was
used
about.
I
The
extent
of
bodily
remains
at
the
scene,
and
these
are
questions
and
information
that
families
may
have
not
known
and
may
have
no
interest
in
knowing
or
may
be
desperate
to
forget.
But
the
process
right
now
of
even
recounting
those
details
adds
further
trauma
to
the
experience,
even
if
they
did
research
companies
at
the
same
time.
I
I
J
So
one
of
the
ways
that
is
that
survivors
are
expected
to
pay
for
crime
scene
cleanup
is
through
private
insurance,
so
either
homeowners,
insurance
or
renters
insurance.
Now,
if
we
look
at
the
rate
of
home
ownership
in
philadelphia,
we'll
see
that
the
lighter
areas
where
there
are
less
percent
of
less
percent
of
the
population
owns
their
home
and
that's
where
most
of
the
homicides
took
place
in
the
last
five
years.
J
Additionally,
we
know
that
there
is
a
racial
homeownership
gap
where
only
49
of
black
philadelphians
hold
their
home
their
homes
and
76
percent
white
philadelphians
own
their
homes.
Now,
in
the
case
where
philadelphians
rent
their
homes,
which
is
about
48
of
philadelphians
renters
insurance,
is
typically
narrow
and
may
not
cover
crime
scene,
cleanup.
I
So
vcap
is
a
system
set
up
for
reimbursing
crime
victims
for
expenses
after
after
a
crime
is
experienced,
people
may
not
have
information
on
vcap
at
the
time
when
a
crime
occurs
and
can
receive
reimbursement
for
up
to
two
years
and
crime
scene.
Cleanup
is
a
service
that
can
be
reimbursed
through
vcap.
I
However,
the
maximum
reimbursement
is
500,
which
hasn't
been
changed
in
over
20
years,
and
these
this
reimbursement
is
only
eligible
for
crime
scenes
that
happen
inside
of
a
private
residence,
so
that
excludes
cars,
homicides
or
shootings
that
happen
inside
a
pro
and
inside
a
private
building,
but
an
apartment
building,
for
example,
but
in
a
hallway
and
any
and
any
shooting
that
may
happen
outside,
which
is
the
vast
majority
of
violent
crime
scenes.
As
a
result,
vcap
in
the
past
three
years
has
only
reimbursed
eight
clients.
J
J
In
our
research
report,
we
propose
two
different
options
for
doing
this:
either
the
city
runs
its
own
biohazard
remediation
team
and
that
cleans
up
the
crime
scenes
or
two.
We,
the
city,
uses
the
same
model
that
they're
using
for
the
toe
rotational
model
where
we,
the
city,
sets
regulations
for
crime
scene
companies
that
they
have
to
follow
in
standards
and
then
up.
Then
the
law
enforcement
dispatches
different
crime
scene
companies
that
have
a
contract
with
the
city.
I
And
we
offer,
in
this
new
report,
two
pilot
opportunities
to
to
take
action
immediately.
One
is
that
eight
zip
codes
in
philadelphia
highlighted
on
the
right
account
for
55
of
the
homicides
over
the
past
five
years,
just
those
eight
zip
codes.
So
more
than
half
of
the
homicides
happen
in
these
eight
zip
codes
and
one
pilot
opportunity
is
to
respond
with
crime
scene
cleanup
and
just
these
zip
codes
hardest
hit
by
homicide.
That
also
experience
some
of
the
highest
rates
of
poverty
in
the
city.
I
I
It
would
be
nice
if
somebody
told
me
what
I
was
going
to
what
I
was
getting
ready
to
walk
into
or
said:
hey.
Let
me
go
get
that
for
you.
You
don't
want
to
see
that
or
something
but
nothing
I
mean
when
the
homicide
detectives
told
me
that
I
could
go
down
there
and
retrieve
this
stuff.
I
wasn't
picturing.
I
had
to
go
to
a
bloody
vehicle
and
grab
everything.
I
This
policy
recommendation
is
to
institute
trauma-informed
and
culturally
sensitive
training
and
policies
that
enhance
law,
enforcement's
communication
with
survivors
of
homicide
and
victims
of
crime,
particularly
families.
It
described
as
this
quote,
exemplifies
experiences
of
not
being
warned
before,
going
back
to
their
home
or
not
being
told
that
when
they
went
to
retrieve
loved
ones
belongings
from
the
car
that
it
was
still
sitting
in
a
pool
of
blood,
there's
opportunities
that
can
be
taken
immediately
to
support
law,
enforcement's
communication
with
survivors
and
reduce
ongoing
harm
that
families
experience
after
after
a
loved
one
is
killed.
J
I
And
again,
thank
you
so
much
for
to
the
committee
on
public
safety
for
hearing
stories
of
of
people,
who've
experienced
crime
scene
cleanup
and
this
important
issue.
We
really
appreciate
all
of
the
attention
that's
being
brought
to
this
and
and
violence
that's
happening
across
the
city.
It's
really
needing
urgent
attention.
A
Thank
you
for
your
testimony.
Could
you
please
bear
with
us,
be
patient
and
stick
around.
We
have
two
urgent
hard
stops
and
then
we
want
to
get
everybody's
testimony
on
the
record
committee
members,
so
we're
going
to
hold
questions
until
everyone
testifies.
If
that
is
okay
with
the
committee
hearing,
no
major
objections,
I
hope
sam
mantha.
Can
you
read
the
next
group
to
testify,
so
there
is.
A
K
Good
morning,
everyone
councilman
jones
and
the
council
members,
my
name
is
kathy
buckley,
I'm
the
director
of
the
office
of
victim
services
at
the
pennsylvania
commission
on
crime
and
delinquency,
my
office
oversees
the
implementation
of
the
victims,
compensation
program
or
better
known
as
vcap,
I'm
accompanied
by
our
chief
legal
counsel,
deborah
sanderfer,
she's,
instrumental
part
of
our
victims.
Compensation
program,
I'll
pause
for
deborah
to
introduce
herself
as
well.
A
K
K
Our
program
was
established
as
a
reimbursement
program
and
is
governed
by
the
crime
victims
act,
which
is
a
state
law
that
provides
guidelines
for
eligibility
and
the
benefits
offered
through
victims
compensation
program.
The
act
also
provides
for
funding
the
program
through
a
35
assessment
on
every
criminal
offender
convicted
or
who
has
pled
guilty
in
pennsylvania.
K
No
state
tax
dollars
are
used
to
fund
the
program.
Our
program
also
receives
an
annual
victims
of
prime
act
grant
from
the
federal
office
for
victims
of
crime
that
also
partially
supplements
the
cost
of
the
fund.
So
between
those
two
things,
those
are
the
two
main
sources
of
funding
for
our
program.
K
That
federal
grant
is
generated
by
fees
on
criminal
offenders.
At
the
federal
level,
states
with
compensation
programs
are
eligible
to
receive
this
funding,
but,
together
these
streams
are
what
are
used
to
support
approximately
11
to
13
million
dollars
in
awards
that
are
issued
annually
to
victims
of
crime
through
pennsylvania,
so
currently
to
be
eligible
for
victims.
Compensation
in
pennsylvania
victims
must
generally
meet
the
following
requirements
for
the
law:
one.
They
must
report
the
crime
to
proper
authorities
within
72
hours
or
file
a
protection
disorder.
A
K
Thank
you
forget
continue.
Thank
you
in
general,
the
maximum
amount
that
can
be
paid
through
victims
compensation
is
35
000
per
claim.
However,
there
are
three
specialized
exceptions
to
that.
One
is
an
additional
thousand
dollars
may
be
paid
for
forensic
rate
examination
above
the
thirty
five
thousand
up
to
ten
thousand
dollars
is
available
for
counseling,
and
up
to
five
hundred
dollars
is
available
for
crime
scene.
K
K
F
A
A
M
D
D
I
really
didn't
understand
how
this
aspect
of
homicides,
how
that
works
in
our
city
until
you
started
this
work
chairman
jones
and
it's
mind-boggling
to
me,
and
I
think
that
we
have
to
support
our
citizens
in
a
better
way,
and
so
I
just
thank
you,
I
think
avp
for
the
report.
I
thank
you
for
this
hearing
and
I
look
forward
to
being
a
part
of
an
immediate
solution
to
change
this
situation
and
support
people,
particularly
in
our
black
and
brown
neighborhoods.
A
A
L
No,
that
is
not
correct.
The
the
excuse
me
again,
deborah
sanderfer,
the
the
crime
victims
act,
speaks
to
private
residents
and
that-
and
that
includes
what
some
of
the
things
you
did-
council
member
jones
homes
rentals,
but
it
is
the
word,
is
residence
which
does
not
include
a
motor
vehicle.
Okay,.
J
A
K
K
Those
that
have
been
approved,
but
maybe
we
are
waiting
for
the
documentation
to
come
forward
and
also
out
of
that
200,
some
of
them,
as
sam
stephanie
had
mentioned
they're,
not
within
a
private
residence.
We
didn't
have
time
to
go
through
all
of
those
planes
prior
to
this
meeting,
to
give
you
that
information.
K
A
Mean
without
I
mean
listen,
I've
learned
as
a
a
member.
That's
been
around
a
couple
of
years.
Now
that
I
don't
want
to
point
fingers,
I
want
to
point
to
solutions.
How
do
we
get?
Unfortunately,
I
would
hope
to
stop
the
murders,
so
we
need
need
not
have
claims
placed,
but
if,
if
we're
going
to
deal
with
this
pandemic
of
homicides,
how
do
we
get
better
at
reimbursements
to
exceed
eight?
We
get
eight
in
a
weekend,
sometimes
in
philadelphia,
so
how?
What
what?
A
K
K
C
Yes,
and
so
my
question
is
regarding
who
qualifies
for
the
reimbursement
when
there's
a
homicide,
I
know,
there's
there's
been
a
little
controversy
in
the
victims
advocacy
on
community
regarding,
like
if
a
young
man
just
happens,
to
be
living
some
type
of
lifestyle,
but
his
life
is
taken
but
could
have
a
mom
who's.
You
know
low
income
or
struggling
to
pay
for
their
funeral
expenses
and
has
nothing
to
do
with
her
son's
actions,
but
that
someone
don't
qualify
because
of
his
actions
may
have
been
criminal
or
have
contributed
to
his
death.
C
Has
that
issue
have
been
addressed
and
also
have
there
been
any
movements
regarding
raising
the
reimbursement
for
funeral
costs
and
then
also
is
there
education
around
all
these
other
services
that
are
provided
to
victims
who
have
lost
loved
ones
and
gun
violence,
because
some
of
the
things
that
were
just
mentioned
is
new
to
me.
Besides,
the
funeral
service
is
reimbursed.
L
This
is
debra
sander
for
chief
counsel,
from
pcc
commission
on
crime
and
delinquency.
The
crime
victims
act
requires
the
vcap
program
to
consider
the
contributory
conduct
of
the
victim
it.
It
actually
requires
the
program
to
consider
that
to
assess
that
when
making
determinations
about
the
award,
that
would
go
to
whoever
the
claimant.
L
L
You
have
myself
and,
and
probably
one
other
attorney
from
my
office
with
our
different
perspective
and
and
we
talk
through
things
and
I
think
we're
very
proud
of
our
results
in
that
regard,
because
it's
we're
talking
about
life
experiences
we're
talking
about
you
know
the
other
attorney
has
30
years
as
a
public
defender.
I
have
had
a
varied
existence
in
in
the
criminal
justice
system
and
that's
basically
the
the
way
that
we
do
it.
I
wanted
to
make
a
comment
also
about
the
the
funeral
expenses.
L
K
C
Yeah
see,
mr
this
is
very,
very
helpful
information.
You
know
obviously
we're
working
through
the
details
regarding
the
office
of
victim
advocates
and
so
we'll
be
working
very
closely
with
you,
kathleen
and
deborah
asked
me
on
formulate
our
rollout
as
well
as
I'm
working
with
senator
anthony
hardy
lambs
and
sharif
street
regarding
the
office
of
victim
act
on
the
state
level.
C
I
know
y'all
have
a
vacancy
right
now
and
looking
for
candidates
to
replace
jennifer
storm,
but
some
of
this
information,
besides
just
being
reversed
besides
being
reimbursed
for
funeral
expenses,
there's
new
information
for
me,
and
so
I
just
want
to
do
a
follow-up
and
more
of
a
deeper
dive.
Just
so
when
we're
dealing
with
our
constituents
like
in
terms
of
trauma
counseling,
which
is
very,
very
important
and
critical
right.
C
How
do
you
engage
in
the
training
component
with
those
police
departments
to
make
sure
they're
getting
this
information
out?
Because
I
don't
at
least
I've
been
doing
this
work
for
at
least
20
years
as
an
activist
but
10
years,
as
an
elected
official,
and
I
haven't
heard
a
community
relations
officer,
say
well,
you
can
receive
trauma,
support
services
for
free
or
get
reimbursed
as
a
as
a
also
part
of
you
know
you
addressing
the
homicide
that
may
have
taken
place,
and
so
how
does
that
work?.
L
If
I
might
speak,
this
is
deborah
sander
again
before
I
turn
most
of
your
question
council
person
johnson
over
to
kathy
buckley,
I
want
to
finish
out
something
else
about
the
contributory
conduct
piece.
What
I
didn't
say-
and
I
should
have
was
that
the
crime
victims
act
also
requires
that
there
are
certain
circumstances
where
we
do
not
and
cannot
consider
contributory
conduct
and
when
you
mention
counseling,
that's
what
it
brought
it.
L
To
my
mind
when
it
comes
to
a
claim
for
counseling
submitted
by
a
loved
one
of
a
homicide
victim,
we
cannot
and
do
not
consider
the
contributory
conduct
of
a
victim.
That
is
also
the
case
in
the
area
of
certain
sexual
assaults.
We
cannot
and
do
not
consider
the
contributory
conduct
of
the
victim,
and
with
that
I
I
think
kathy
buckley
can
speak
to
what
things
that
the
program
does
and
and
and
trains
on
in
order
to
get
information
out
to
the
public
through
police
officers.
A
Thank
you,
member
johnson.
I
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
the
work
that
you
guys
do
at
the
state
level.
I
am
very
much
aware
of
it,
but
we
can
always
do
better.
We
can
always
look
to
statutes
that
need
to
be
updated.
The
cost
of
a
funeral,
but
more
importantly,
of
course,
to
ongoing
trauma
is,
is
extensive
and
in
our
whether
you
talk
about
the
the
third
district,
the
second
district,
fourth
district.
A
We
see
it
every
day
and
to
know
and
be
fully
aware
that
all
of
these
programs
exist,
even
if
they
need
to
be
updated,
is
better
than
drawing
a
blank.
When
we
talk
to
a
victim
and
we're
a
survivor
of
a
crime,
and
so
we
need
you
and
we
need
to
for
you
to
guide
us
on
how
we
can
be
helpful
in
dealing
with
that.
Are
there
any
other
questions
of
the
committee.
M
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
everyone
for
your
testimony
today.
I
have
a
question.
I
think
it's
the
sam
margulies.
I
think
you
mentioned
sam,
that
eight
zip
codes
have
the
highest
homicide
rate
in
the
city
right
now
and
was
that
what
was
the
percentage
of
what
those
homes
was
that
55
of
the
homicide
rates
in
those
eight
zip
codes.
I
Yes,
yes,
so
we
we're
looking
at
totals
of
homicide,
not
homicide
rate
but
total
homicides
from
2016
through
2020,
and
then
those
eight
zip
codes
accounted
for
55
with
a
big
gap
between
those
eight
zip
codes.
I
think
the
the
the
eighth
zip
code
had
90
or
more
homicides
and
the
next
highest
zip
code
had
about
six
mid
in
the
middle
of
the
60s
60.
J
I
It's
also
helpful,
I
would
love
to
share
and,
as
part
of
the
report,
we
looked
at
neighboring
state
reimbursements
for
crime
scene
cleanup
and
looked
at
new
jersey,
reimburses
for
crime
scene,
cleanup
up
to
4
000.
new
york
reimburses
up
to
2500
and
delaware
up
to
a
thousand
just
as
comparable
states
in
the
region.
M
I
C
I
So
those
are
the
the
numbers
we
have
for
states
in
the
region
on
reimbursement
and,
unfortunately,
what
we
found
in
doing
some
of
our
research
was
that
the
burden
is
is
most
commonly
placed
on
families
to
coordinate
the
logistics
and
to
pay
out
of
pocket.
We
didn't
identify
another
place
where
a
locality,
a
municipality,
removed
that
burden
and
that's
part
of
what
we're
advocating
for
the
city
of
philadelphia
to
do
is
because
this
is
a
prohibitive
cost
out
of
pocket.
I
I
I
C
Yes,
the
reason
I
asked
the
question
I
think
also
through
and
councilman
johnson
talked
about
the
work
he's
doing
with
senators
williams
and
street.
Also
through
my
role
with
pennsylvania
municipal
league.
I
would
venture
this
is
an
issue
not
just
for
a
city
of
philadelphia
but
other
cities
around
the
commonwealth,
including
norristown,
coastville,
erie,
harrisburg,
pittsburgh,
redding,
who
all
have
the
same
issues
and
concerns
and
there's
not
enough
dollars
for
on
this
issue,
even
at
the
reimbursement
level,
and
so
to
the
extent
that
we
can.
A
A
I
Where
homicides
happen,
policy
recommendation
two
was
to
enact
training
and
policies
on
trauma-informed
care
and
cultural
sensitivity
for
law
enforcement
and
policy.
Number
three
was
to
increase
access
to
information
on,
what's
involved
in
crime
scene
cleanup
at
the
city
levels
that
families
are
aware
of
information
relevant
to
the
health
risks
relevant
to
accessing
private
services.
To
avoid
the
ongoing
trauma
and
physical
harm.
C
I
I
So
the
national
estimated
average
per
crime
scene
cleanup
service
is
two
thousand
to
forty
five
hundred
dollars,
so
the
or
2500
to
4
000
excuse
me
so,
for
let
me
pull
hold
up
stephanie,
you
may
have
it
more
accessible
than
I
do,
but
for
the
responding
to
homicides
that
happen
in
just
those
eight
zip
codes.
Roughly
from
my
memory,
it
was
around
450
000
to
790
000,
to
respond
and
remove
the
biohazardous
material.
I
J
C
I
A
E
E
Certainly,
it
calls
upon
us
to
support
our
own
victim,
witness
service
agencies
here
locally,
to
be
able
to
advertise
the
compensation
fund
and
supports
especially
for
homicide,
victims
or
shooting
victims.
You
know
where
there's
the
likelihood
of
seeing
so
much
potential.
You
know
property
issues
and
everything.
So
a
couple
of
the
questions
that
I
had
were
around
how
vcap
vcap
has
certain
requirements
that
that
have
come
to
us
that
have
been
of
concern,
and
I
just
want
to
double
check
those
to
you.
E
L
This
is
deborah
sanderfer,
again,
chief
counsel,
pccd.
I
think
the
language
in
the
the
crime
victims
act
is
that,
in
order
for
claimants
to
be
eligible,
they
have
to
cooperate
with
law
enforcement.
So
it's
it's
not
quite
specified
that
it
be
with
the
prosecution.
It
is
just
cooperate
with
law
enforcement,
and
that
has
been
interpreted
to
mean
any
number
of
things
from
being
available
for
interviews
and
phone
calls
and
participating
in
investigation
and
revealing
information
that
is
known.
L
It's
a,
I
would
say
it's
a
collaborative
effort
that
the
program
itself
makes
the
decisions
and
the
the
final
arbiter.
If
you
will
would
be
my
office,
the
office
of
chief
counsel
with
the
cap
when
there
is
a
question,
but
what
happens
with
respect
to
law
enforcement,
is
that
the
program
examines
reports
and
that
sort
of
thing
that
do
come
from
police
departments.
They,
of
course,
are
in
communication
with
claimants
who
make
their
their
their
appeal
for
the
award
directly
to
the
program
and
that's
how
the
determination
is
is
made.
L
I'm
I'm
not
sure
what
you're
asking
I
really
can't
speak
to
what
a
victim
would
feel
about
the
program.
But
I
don't
I
don't
know
if
I'm
heading
off
in
a
different
direction,
but
there
there
are
opportunities
for
the
claimant
to
speak
directly
with
the
person
handling
the
claim
and
if,
if
there's
an
adverse
decision,
if
you
will
there's
the
opportunity
to
request
reconsideration
and
then
there's
also
the
opportunity
to
request
an
appeal
before
a
a
hearing
examiner
at
the
at
the
state
department
level.
I'm
not
sure
if
that's
answering
your
question.
E
E
K
I'm
sorry
this
is
kathy
buckley.
If
I
may
intervene
so
you're
talking
about
the
crime
scene.
Cleanup
claims,
correct,
okay,
okay,
so
yeah
there's
a
number
of
claims
that
may
have
been
approved
through
crime
scene
cleanup,
but
we
haven't
paid
yet
so
in
order
for
us
to
kind
of
gauge
the
number
of
claims
those
are
involved,
we
would
need
more
time
to
go
through.
They
may
have
been
already
paid
for
other
types
of
expenditures
like
therapy
or
funeral
expenses
and
so
forth,
and
maybe
we're
still
waiting
for
documentation
on
the
crime
scene.
K
That's
the
hard
part.
We
wouldn't
need
time
to
go
through
our
claims,
because
there
are
multiple
types
of
expenses
that
the
claims
can
be
paid
on.
So
we
would
have
to
go,
make
sure
we're
going
through
the
claims
pretty
thoroughly
to
ensure
that
we're
looking
at
everything
correctly
to
identify
those
that
have
been
paid
on
in
what
expenses
and
then
those
that
have
not
some
of
the
crime
scene.
Expenses
may
not
have
been
paid
because
they
weren't
eligible,
because
maybe
it
wasn't
at
the
private
residence.
E
That
I
just
want
to
underscore
is,
first
of
all,
you
know
I
want
to
underscore
on
behalf
of
our
entire
city
and
our
city
council
body,
that
you
know
this
fund
is
very
important
to
us
and
we
appreciate
the
work
that
everybody
does
there.
This
hearing
is
specifically
about
crime
scene
cleanup.
So,
yes,
all
my
questions
were
about
crime
scene.
E
Cleanup,
okay,
one
of
the
things
that
we
feel
is
difficult
or
I
have
experienced
challenges
at
the
state
level-
is
that
we
don't
typically
do
data
analysis
we
are
discussing
here
in
the
absence
of
current
state
funding
and
perhaps
restrictive
measures
around
vcap
that
do
not
allow
philadelphians
to
access
it
that
we
may
have
to
pilot
that
money
on
our
own.
You
know,
potentially
that's
under
discussion
right
now.
Right,
like
that's,
been
a
request.
That's
been
made
a
recommendation.
That's
been
made
by
certain
individuals
who
are
on
here,
and
you
know.
E
One
of
the
things
that
that
we
want
to
understand
is
that
the
state
needs
to
be
doing
a
better
job
around
this.
We
cannot
actually
do
a
better
job
if
we
don't
have
data,
so
it
seems
that
you
know
mr
chair.
One
of
the
things
he
would
want
to
request
from
the
state
is
a
relatively
comprehensive
review
of
claims,
not
just
things
that
have
been
dispersed
but
claims
that
were
made.
E
You
know,
we
need
these
communities.
These
neighborhoods,
you
know,
need
assistance,
because
many
of
them
are
happening
in
places
where
clearly
a
4,
500
crime
scene.
Cleanup
cannot
be
managed
by
many
of
them,
and
thus
people
are
re-traumatized
over
and
over
again.
So
my
question
is:
is
this
information
that
that
I
was
discussing,
which
is
kind
of
a
comprehensive
review
of
claims
around
crime
scene?
Cleanup?
E
E
I
do
want
to
make
sure
that
the
work
that
we
do
and
that
you
know
the
the
issues
are
being
brought
forward
here
by
many
victims
and
victim
families
is
something
that
the
state
will
will
also
be
making
adjustments
for
in
their
own
programming.
So
it's
not
just
philadelphia
paying
into
something,
but
actually
we
are
changing
the
the
experience
statewide
for
individuals
who
are
victims
of
violence
and
require
crime
scene.
Cleanup
this
is
a
traumatic
issue
for
many
families.
E
I
think
we're
we're
hearing
that
and
have
witnessed
it
certainly,
and
it
feels
almost
you
know
almost
in
the
realm
of
first
responder
kind
of
you
know,
kind
of
a
mentality
and
trauma
from
a
related
type
of
services
right
to
not
force
a
family
to
have
to
either
clean
it
up
themselves
or
to
be
able
to
you
know
or
to
have
to
require
them
to
to
reach
beyond
their
means
for
it.
So
that's
the
question
and
it's
it's
specifically
asking
about
state-level
data.
E
A
A
A
N
N
O
N
O
O
The
crime
scene
unit
responds
to
all
homicides,
officer-involved,
shootings
and
other
complicated
scenes
detectives
process.
Other
scenes,
such
as
non-fatal
shootings,
typically
crime
scene
processing
by
a
forensic
examiner,
involves
detailed
notes,
sketches
photographs
and
possibly
video
to
document
the
conditions
of
the
scene
and
evidence.
O
Evidence
is
collected
to
preserve
its
forensic
value
for
future
analysis.
Once
the
crime
scene
has
been
fully
processed.
With
all
evidence
collected,
the
police
department
releases
the
scene
at
this
point,
the
crime
scene,
responsibilities
of
the
police
department
have
ended
if
a
crime
scene
is
located
outside
on
a
public
street
or
sidewalk.
O
The
police
department
will
at
times
request
the
services
of
the
philadelphia
fire
department
to
hose
down
the
public
space
crime
scenes
on
private
property,
whether
interior
or
exterior,
are
not
cleaned
or
repaired
by
the
city.
The
cleanup
and
repair
repair
associated
with
these
scenes
is
the
responsibility
of
the
person
responsible
for
that
property.
O
E
I'm
sorry,
could
I
just
stop
here
for
one
second,
mr
chair,
I
yes,
I
feel
like
it's
important.
While
I
appreciate
the
powerpoint,
I
do
feel
like
it's
important
that
we
let
the
public
know
that
there
are
extremely
graphic
scenes
here
that
are
being
presented
and
that
people
have
a
right
to
know
ahead
of
the
presentation.
E
You
know.
I
know
we
got
the
the
ppd's
powerpoint
relatively
late,
but
it
feels
important
to
let
people
know.
This
is
an
important
issue
and
we
want
to
express
the
understanding
that
there
is
a
tradition,
a
significant
amount
of
trauma
associated
with
this
conversation,
especially
for
those
who
are
seeking
a
better
path
towards
reimbursement.
I
just
think
it's
important
for
us
to
to
very
clearly
state
that
this
presentation
has
already
shown
and
may
continue
to
show
graphic
scenes
and
that
people
who
are
uncomfortable
with
that.
E
N
A
A
N
When
we
look
at
this,
the
philadelphia
police
don't
have
the
resources
or
personnel
right
now
for
our
cleanups.
Nor
do
we
have
a
list
of
contractors
who
we
can
tell
people
who
they
should
actually
reach
out
to.
However,
what
we
can
say,
we
fully
agree
that,
based
on
the
scenes
that
we
see
we
we
absolutely
know
there
is
a
need
for
these
services.
People
need
these
services
need.
The
contact
points
need
the
capability
to
clean
up
and
with
the
surge
in
gun
violence.
N
Many
more
people
will
continue
to
face
this
extreme
burden
to
require
their
property,
to
be
cleaned,
but
also
disinfected
in
a
healthy
and
safe
way,
and
anything
that
we
can
do
talking
about
this
here,
hearing
whether
it's
providing
these
services
providing
the
possibility
to
pay
for
these
will
help
these
people
who
are
dealing
with
crime
every
single
every
single
day.
This
was
not
part
of
my
written
testimony,
however.
N
I
think
the
training
option
that
was
talked
about
is
an
excellent
idea
and
I'm
going
to
be
taking
that
option
of
you
know
back
to
our
office
and
basically
that
is
something
that
we
should
be
able
to
work
on
pretty
quickly.
So
and
with
that,
I
will
end
for
questions
sorry
about
the
graphic
nature
of
that,
but
it
was
critical
to
show
so
many
people
don't
realize
what
crime
scenes
look
like
and
what
it
looks
like
after
we
leave,
and
that
is
the
reality
that
so
many
people
have
to
deal
with
after
we're
finished
processing.
A
N
Yeah,
that's
a
hard
question
for
me
to
give
you
an
answer
to
right
now.
I
can
check
we
typically
don't
track
crime
scenes,
whether
they're
inside
or
whether
they
are
in
the
public
space.
I
can
try
to
pull
basically
that
to
count.
We
also
have
a
mix
of
scenes.
That'll
be
both.
They
may
start
inside
and
move
outside.
N
A
N
N
N
A
N
A
N
E
Mr
chairman,
this
is
council.
Member
again,
should
I
recognize
this
council
member.
Thank
you
very
much.
First
of
all,
I
just
want
to
thank
mr
garvey
for
your.
You
know
you
know
for
the
for
the
comments,
and
you
know
certainly
appreciate
the
work
that
the
philadelphia
police
department
does.
You
know,
I
think
anybody
who
knows
the
amount
of
harm
that's
been
done
across
our
city
regarding
violence,
but
you
know
our
police
are
first
responders.
E
So
you
know-
and
again
I
appreciate
the
the
communication
of
the
severity
of
what
we
leave
families
and
the
broader
public
to
deal
with.
I
just
feel
like
it's
important
for
us
to
warn
people
before
we
see
these
scenes
and
you
know
again
to
use
them
judiciously,
because
I
think
we
want
we
want.
We
want
to
focus
in
on.
E
What's
what
we
need
to
do
so
you
know
my
question
is:
if
you
had
a
chance
to
listen
to
some
of
the
earlier
testimony,
some
of
the
concerns-
and
it
does
you
know,
I
know,
as
a
member
of
the
department
you're
advocating
for
an
expansion,
do
you
reckon?
Are
there
other
recommendations
that
kind
of
resonated
with
you
in
terms
of
how
we
can
expand
the
state's
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
the
crime
victims
compensation
fund
is,
is
more
fully
expansive
and
does
include
you
know,
concerns
around
crime
scene
cleanup?
E
N
N
That
goes
directly
to
us,
probably
clarifying
protocols,
but
it
also
goes
to
training.
So
the
topic
of
training,
I
think,
is
an
incredible
one,
one
which
we
are
already
doing:
training
in
many
areas
to
make
sure
that
we
are
going
to
engage
better
with
those
that
we
serve
so
the
training
piece
critical
having
us
have
a
list.
N
Perhaps
that
is
vetted
by
the
city
that
we
would
be
able
to
provide,
because
right
now
we
can't
provide
names
of
a
company,
because
we
can't
favor
one
company
versus
some
other
company.
However,
if
there
was
an
approved
list
by
the
city,
like
you
already
heard
earlier,
like
the
tow
trucks,
then
perhaps
we
would
even
be
able
to
provide
that
if
there
was
a
way
for
these
people
to
not
have
to
do
the
cleanup
to
not
have
to
go
in
and
plan
that
cleanup
talking
to
a
private
company.
N
N
I
have
to
routinely
look
at
my
crime
scene,
my
crime
scene
team
and
actually
think
about
the
number
of
scenes
they
go
to,
even
in
one
night,
the
number
of
scenes
they
go
to
in
a
week
the
number
of
scenes
that
they
go
to
over
the
course
of
a
year
and
the
trauma
that
gives
them.
At
the
same
token,
someone
who
lost
a
son
child
of
any
kind,
that's
adding
on
to
that
trauma,
so
anything
that
we
can
actually
do
to
help
that
process.
We
should.
A
I
I've
dread
teddy
bear
memorials,
but
I
dread
the
fact
that
we
haven't
cleaned
up
some
of
the
some
of
the
residue
of
a
murder,
and
so
that
concerns
me.
My
question
also
is
increasingly
victims
of
homicide.
The
scene
happens
to
be
a
car.
Now
the
the
people
pull
up
and
they
catch
people
off
guard,
while
they're
behind
the
wheel.
What
happens
when
that
happens
to
the
vehicle
and
then
the
processing?
A
N
N
So
I
think
that
would
arguably
go
into
the
realm
of
at
least
talking
to
public
health
to
make
sure
that
process
happens
properly.
Moving
into
your
question
about
cars,
cars
much
like
any
other
scene
will
be
processed.
Evidence
will
be
collected
from
those
cars
and
at
some
point
someone
can
reclaim
that
car.
Unfortunately,
when
they
reclaim
that
car
that
car
will
not
have
been
cleaned,
so
it
would
require
cleaning,
it
would
require.
N
Possibly
you
know,
changing
out
parts
of
the
car,
because
often
those
cars
were
struck
by
bullet
after
bullet
after
bullet.
So
those
would
all
be
part
of
the
cleanup
process
which
we
do
not
have
any
procedures
for
nor
the
resources.
For
we
also
look
at
crime
scene
cleanup
for
every
philadelphia
car
for
every
police
car.
N
N
There
is
a
contract
for
that
which
I
believe-
and
I
could
be
wrong
on
the
exact
number,
but
I
believe
it's
about
four
to
five
hundred
dollars.
Every
time
we
have
to
clean
a
car.
That
process
is
very
time
consuming.
The
car
is
taken
out
of
service.
It
has
to
be
cleaned
by
a
contractor
because
we
don't
have
the
people
qualified
to
actually
do
it.
So
that's
basically
how
we
process
cars.
Hopefully
that
answered
your
question,
sir.
N
D
It
strikes
me
that
this
issue
of
crime
scene
cleanup
and
how
it's
dealt
with
fits
into
a
broader
issue
of
the
support
and
care
that
we're
giving
to
people
in
the
hours
right
after
a
homicide
when
they're
in
extreme
distress.
I
wanted
to
know
if
you
could
describe
for
us
what
that
support
looks
like.
I
realize
that
not
all
of
this
will
fall
on
ppd
right.
We
could
be
talking
about
mental
health.
D
While
I
saw
police
there
very
diligently
during
their
work
and
processing
the
scene,
I
also
saw
family
members
and
neighbors
just
in
extreme
crisis
and
and
there
there
seems
to
be
nothing
there
to
deal
with
that.
So
I
wanted
for
you
to
describe
that
more
clearly
what
what
happens
now
and
how
do
we
treat
that
as
a
city,
and
I
also
want
you
wanted
to
hear
your
thoughts
on
what
it
should
look
like.
What?
N
N
So,
while
that
answer
touches
on
the
what
we
do
for
crime
solving,
which
is
the
general
job
of
the
ppd,
the
next
part
of
that
question,
though
right
is
what
do
we
do
for
the
people
that
are
left
at
the
scene
and
right
now?
That
would
be
a
comprehensive
look
at
how's,
the
city,
basically
looking
at
what
are
the
services
for
those
people?
D
Thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
identify
that
you
know
as
a
gap
and
I'm
hopeful
that
we
can
come
up
with
a
better,
more
immediate
response
for
people
who
are
just
you
know,
having
the
worst
moment
of
their
lives
and
need
a
higher
level
of
support
than
what
we're
able
to
do
when
just
focused
on
the
crime
scene
cleanup
and
I'm
making
that
comment
with
the
full
knowledge
that
this
is
a
collective
issue.
Not
just
the
the
issue
of
the
ppd.
F
F
What
she
does
is
she
dispatches
what
is
called
peer
crisis
responders
to
either
the
scene
or
since
kovid,
since
we're
under
the
covig
restrictions
that
usually
happens,
maybe
a
day
or
two
and
sometimes
three
days
after
a
homicide
has
occurred
and
that
program
those
responders
go
out
to
the
homes,
to
the
hospitals
anywhere
in
the
community,
where
that
homicide
has
occurred,
to
provide
direct
crisis
response
services
to
families
impacted
by
homicide.
I
just
wanted
to
make
you
all
aware
of
that.
D
K
A
Mia.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
remember
again,
member
gladier.
Does
that
conclude
your
questions
all
right.
Are
there
any
other
questions
for
this
witness
seeing
none.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
testimony.
We
look
forward
to
your
follow-up
and
please
provide
that
to
the
chair,
and
I
will
forward
that
to
the
rest
of
the
committee
samantha.
Who
do
we
have
next?
A
P
Good
morning
my
name
is
antoinette
dupree
heart,
I'm
the
niece
of
florence
pompeii
and
raymond
finney.
They
were
siblings,
who
were
murdered
at
506
a.m.
On
saturday
may
27
2017.,
I
was
the
last
person
who
loved
them
to
see
them
alive,
and
I
was
one
of
the
people
who
discovered
their
bodies
in
their
home.
On
sunday
may,
28
2017.,
the
police
department
were
successful
in
apprehending
the
murderer
and
we,
unlike
many
other
families,
have
a
sense
of
justice.
P
P
My
aunt
was
found
with
her
body
pressed
against
the
wall
by
the
window.
She
may
have
tried
to
escape.
She
was
shot
at
close
range
in
the
head.
My
uncle
was
taken
by
surprise
and
he
was
shot
in
his
head
stomach
and
chest
in
the
upstairs
hallway.
Both
scenes
were
gruesome
and
there's
not
a
day.
That
goes
by
that
I
don't
relive
this
nightmare.
P
P
P
P
P
He
was
clean
for
four
years
before
this
happened,
he's
quiet
and
kind
and
a
gentle
school,
but
he
was
clean
before
he
had
gone
in
that
house
since
the
day
that
he
had
to
clean
his
sister's
blood
and
brain
matter
off
the
walls
and
scrub
his
baby
brother's
blood
out
of
the
carpet.
My
uncle
had
not
been
able
to
stay
sober,
he
has
been
to
rehab,
but
it
just
does
not
stick.
P
P
He
once
said
that
he
couldn't
get
over
going
in
that
house
and
scraping
parts
of
his
sister
off
the
walls
and
scrubbing
his
brother
away.
His
eyes
have
seen
things
that
his
mind.
Just
can't
unsee
murder
scene
cleanup
is
something
that
no
family
should
have
to
contemplate
at
a
time
when
their
life
is
basically
shared.
P
We
had
to
cover
funeral
expenses
because
my
uncle
was
uninsured,
so
we
did
that
and
it
was
fine,
but
the
expense
of
a
cleanup
would
have
been
taxing
and
stressful,
not
to
mention
the
idea.
As
someone
mentioned
before,
of
googling
crime
scene
companies,
crime
scene,
cleanup
companies
still
shakes
me
to
my
poor.
P
It's
really
important
that
this
resolution
be
passed.
No
family
should
be
prepared.
No
family
is
emotionally
prepared
to
clean
up
a
murder
scene,
not
one
all.
Families
are
not
in
the
financial
position
to
cover
up
cover.
The
upfront
cost
of
a
crime
scene
cleanup,
while
the
500
grant
to
reimburse
the
cleanup
is
great,
is
not
practical
for
all
families
who
may
be
struggling
to
cover
the
expense
of
an
unplanned
funeral
or,
as
in
my
family's
case,
two
funerals.
P
A
Unfortunately,
that
will
have
to
go
through
what
you
went
through
and
what
your
family
had
to
go
through,
and
we
salute
your
courage
for
stepping
up
as
a
a
pillar
in
your
family
to
deal
with
those
hard
decisions
that
come
after
after
the
after
those
kinds
of
losses.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you.
So
very
much
are
there
any
questions.
P
P
P
P
M
P
P
We
sent
a
family
member
to
identify
the
body
and
they
came
back
with
a
white
envelope
and
then
I
opened
it,
and
so
that's
how
I
even
found
out
about
counseling
for
the
family
things.
So
if
I
wasn't
in
a
state
of
mind
to
like
look
at
that
information,
we
would
have
just
been.
You
know
just
floundering
around
trying
to
figure
out
what
to
do
me
and
my
husband.
P
Everybody
doesn't
open
that
everybody
doesn't
read
those
that
information
so
a
lot
of
time.
We
are
left
in
a
trauma
situation
with
with
no
nowhere
to
go
with
with
no
one.
You
know
to
do
and
again
I
think
it's
just
really
a
cold
situation
where
I'm
just
holding
down.
You
know
body
matter
from
my
deceased
child
and
and
that's
that
you
know
that's
that
no
wrap
up,
no
encapsulation
no
process
or
plan
to
help.
So
I'm
glad
that
you
guys
are
having
this
meeting.
P
I
think
that
it
will
help
humanize
the
fact
that
we
are
losing
our
children,
it's
just
so
inhumane,
the
the
way
that
the
homicide
is
handled
once
it
does
happen.
So
I
I
thank
you
very
much
for
hearing
me
and
you
know.
I
hope
that
this
helps
some
other
families
in
the
future
to
have
a
different
experience.
A
A
A
Q
G
Q
I'm
a
survivor
of
domestic
violence,
so
I'm
trying
to
piece
together
the
pieces
in
my
head,
but
I
know
so
we
we
knew
about
it
and
we
found
out
about
that.
It
happened.
It
was
on
the
news
and
the
family
came
together
to
plan
the
funeral.
I
knew
that
there
was
a
viewing
at
the
morgue
and
it
was
a
video
at
the
morgue.
It
was
just
a
video.
Q
It
was
just
like
a
picture
of
her
face
and
we
did
that
and
then
we
went
back
to
my
father's
house
at
the
time
and
we
were
trying
to
determine
if
she
had
life
insurance.
Where
was
her
purse?
Where
were
her
belongings
kind
of
what
was
going
on?
She
was
actually
at
the
house
and
she
was
staying
in
a
domestic
violence,
shelter
and
she
met
at
my
father's
insistence,
my
father
and
the
her
husband
at
the
house
and
within
five
minutes.
He
shot
her
point
blank
and
then
shot
himself.
Q
So
we
knew
this
much
had
happened,
and
so,
while
we're
at
my
dad's
house,
we
didn't
didn't,
have
a
purse
or
anything,
and
so
my
sister
and
I
decided
we
were
going
to
go
up
to
the
house
and
look
and
see
whether
her
purse
was
there.
The
house
was
a
rental,
so
it
was
completely
empty
because
the
previous
tenants
had
moved
out.
Q
Brain
matter
fighting
matter
floor,
everything
and
my
sister,
because
typically,
if
you
tell
someone,
don't
come
after
you
scream
they're
going
to
come
anyway
and
she
had
the
same
reaction
as
someone
who
is
a
survivor
of
domestic
violence,
probably
for
the
same
amount
of
period
that
my
sister
was
my
ex-husband.
So
this
was
especially
traumatizing
to
me
because
my
ex-husband
was
arrested
in
1984
for
budgeting
his
mother
to
death
with
an
axe,
so
I
already
had
trauma
with
me.
Q
Needless
to
say,
this
was
traumatizing
to
myself
my
sister,
who
is
who
was
a
survivor,
I'm
an
ad
currently
an
advocate
for
domestic
violence.
I
am
woman
against
abuse,
got
me
to
safety
in
1979.
They
got
me
1600
miles
away
for
safety,
so
this
brought
back.
All
of
that,
I
currently
sit
on
the
board
of
directors
that
woman
against
abuse
to
help
other
women,
but
I
have
to
limit
my
testimony
because
it
triggers
me-
but
this
was
important
enough
for
me
to
speak
out-
know
that
I
have
therapy
within.
Q
Q
Being
retriggered,
but
I
did
not
know
as
I'm
listening
to
the
testimony,
I
did
not
know
that
there
were
people
who
came
and
cleaned
that
up.
Our
reaction
was
my
god:
I've
never
been
at
a
crime
scene
before
I
would
think
that
they
cleaned
this
up.
This
is
what
this
is
the
thought
in
my
head.
I
did
not
know
meanwhile
you're
trying
to
look
away.
I
did
not
know
what
to
do.
At
that
point.
I
don't
remember
leaving
the
house,
I
remember
my
sister
and
I
standing
there
crying.
I
don't
remember
going
upstairs.
Q
I
remember
leaving,
but
I
remember
at
that
point.
We
just
stood
there
for
a
really
long
time
crying,
but
I
was
confused.
It's
kind
of
the
hours
and
the
days
went
on
going.
How
come
someone
didn't
clean
this
up?
I
did
not
know
that
they
didn't
clean
up
crime
scenes
and
people
are
walking
into
this.
So
I'm
I'm
hearing,
other
people
testify
testify
and
I'm
going
totally
agree.
Q
Q
Q
E
Remember
kim
yes,
thank
you.
I
also
want
to
thank
dr
norris
jones
and
all
the
testifiers
for
having
the
courage
to
share
what
you
shared
today,
and
you
know
dr
norris
jones,
for
the
work
that
you
do.
The
continued
work
that
you
do
to
come
out
of
pain
and
trauma
and
terror
honestly
to
bring
other
women
to
safety.
Just
cannot
be
underscored,
and
so
you
know
you
have
our
incredible
gratitude
and
that
is
to
all
the
testifiers
who
are
on
here
today.
E
F
F
We
list
their
presence,
their
smile,
their
encouragement,
the
meaning
behind
each
of
those
words,
the
things
we
did
together,
what
whether
it
was
planning
a
meal
preparing
a
meal
having
a
picnic
or
whatever
it's
it's
all
gone,
so
we're
already
grieving
and
we
walk.
Like
the
young
lady
just
said,
we
walk
into
the
house
to
plan
the
funeral
and
there's
blood
all
over
from
the
kitchen
through
the
hall
up
the
steps
and
down
the
hall
towards
the
bedroom
where
she
actually
collapsed.
F
F
F
F
F
F
A
B
G
Yes,
my
name
is
brett
roman
williams.
I
am
the
chairman
of
the
board
of
directors
for
the
anti-violence
partnership
in
philadelphia,
I'm
also
a
philadelphia
native
and
also
victim
of
homicide.
My
brother,
well,
let
me
start
off.
My
first
cousin
was
murdered
when
I
was
five
years
old,
1989
best
friend
was
murder
and
my
father
was
murdered
when
I
was
11
and
in
2016
my
older
brother
was
murdered.
G
This
is
definitely
a
honor
and
unfortunate
privilege.
I
should
say
to
be
here
to
speak
before
you,
council,
member
jones
and
other
city
council
members.
I
would
like
to
thank
my
colleagues
at
avp
for
leading
this
discussion
and
also
just
bear
with
me.
I
have
my
mask
on
because
I'm
in
a
public
location
but
read
my
notes,
real
quick
in
terms
of
just
preparing
for
this
hard
statement.
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
This
case
remains
unsolved.
It's
been
five
years
now,
keep
in
mind.
We
have
two
residences
on
the
street
where
my
brother
was
murdered.
One
is
literally
across
the
street
from
the
scene
of
the
crime.
The
other
is
literally
two
doors
down
where
our
mother
lives
every
day
we
go
outside.
We
see
that
crime
scene
now.
I
know
the
specifics
of
particulars
of
crime
scene
cleanup,
but
then
the
victim's
compensation
funding
has
a
certain
level
of
eligibility
which
doesn't
really
pertain
to
crime
scenes
outside.
G
G
I
went
from
the
city,
the
city
called
or
attempted
to
clean
the
scene.
My
neighbor
had
their
experiences
on
top
of
the
trauma
that
my
family
had
to
experience.
It
makes
it
difficult
for
me
to
properly
communicate
with
my
neighbors
due
to
my
recollection
of
kind
of
cleaning,
my
brother's
blood
and
the
subconscious
of
my
mind.
G
G
I
consider
myself
lucky
to
be
in
this
position
and
to
have
the
capacity
to
to
testify
today,
since
I've
been
made
aware
and
have
been
entrenched
in
his
work
as
being
an
advocate
of
cold
victims
rights.
I
frequently
ask
my
fellow
philadelphia
residents:
do
they
know
of
any
of
this
information?
In
most
cases,
many
say
no.
G
G
G
A
Thank
you
for
sharing,
thank
you
for
being
a
part
of
the
network
that
I've
got
to
meet
and
meet
with
to
learn
your
valuable
services.
You
provide
to
the
city
of
philadelphia,
maria
holloway
name,
nobody's
going
to
pretty
much
know
about
her.
Her
name
was
twin
and
when
I
was
16
years
old,
we
were
on
our
way
to
a
party
we
shared
an
umbrella.
She
was
shot
in
the
back
of
the
head
and
killed.
A
It
is
as
important
as
why
people
receive
the
funds
so
that
we
can
close
the
gaps,
help
to
smooth
out
some
of
the
regulations
to
do
so.
Also
that
we
will
work
with
our
state
partners
lawmakers
to
take
a
look
at
the
statute
to
see
if
it's
time
to
increase
the
amount
of
reimbursement
from
500
to
more
reasonable
reimbursement
of
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of
2500,
where
the
average
crime
scene
cleanup
cost
another
takeaway.
A
These
takeaways
and
more
will
be
produced
a
white
paper
that
will
report
from
this
committee
and
any
members
that
want
to
give
input
to
it.
A
draft
of
it
will
be
sent
to
the
members
of
this
committee
and
then
finalized
and
presented
to
the
full
body
of
counsel
before
the
mayor
does
his
budget
address
so
that
we
can
spare
people
from
ever
having
to
be
victimized
not
once
not
twice
but
three
times
by
cleaning
up
at
a
crime
scene.
Are
there
any
other
members
that
wish
to
give
closing
comments.