►
Description
Meeting of Council's Committee of the Whole to hear testimony on the following bills/resolutions: Bill Nos. 160170, 160171, and 160172 & Resolution No. 160180 regarding the FY2017 Capital Budget.
Testimony from:
Alan Butkovitz, City Controller; Deputy City Controllers Bill Rubin, Gerry Micciulla, and John Thomas.
http://phlcouncil.com/FY17-council-budget-center
A
B
A
Twenty
seventeen
resolution
number
160
180
resolution
providing
for
the
approval
by
the
Council
of
the
City
of
the
city
of
Philadelphia
for
revised
five-year
financial
plan
for
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
covering
fiscal
years
2017
through
20
21,
and
incorporating
proposed
changes
with
respect
to
fiscal
year
2016,
which
is
to
be
submitted
by
the
mayor
to
the
Pennsylvania
intergovernmental
cooperation
authority.
The
authority,
pursuant
to
the
intergovernmental
cooperation
agreement
authorized
by
an
ordinance
of
this
council,
approved
by
the
mayor
on
January
theory,
1992
bill
number
156,
three
dash
a
buying
in
between
the
city
and
the
authority.
A
B
You
mr.
stead,
today
we
continue
to
public
hearing
a
committed
a
whole
to
consider
the
bills
read
by
the
chief
clerk
de
klerk
I'm,
sorry
that
constitute
proposed
operating
and
capital
spending
measures
for
fiscal
2017,
a
capital
program
in
a
fort
looking
capital
plan
for
fiscal
2017
through
fiscal
2022.
B
A
B
C
Test
I'm
city
controller
Alan,
but
give
its
I'm
joined
by
deputy
city
controllers,
bill,
rubin,
Jerry,
mitula
and
John
Thomas,
as
well
as
our
administrative
services,
director
Andrea
rose
and
audit
director
and
transitioning
to
post
audit
deputy
Christy
Brady
the
mayor's
proposed
fiscal
year.
Twenty
seventeen
operating
budget
for
the
city
controllers
office
includes
a
general
fund
appropriation
of
eight
million
four
hundred
thirty
1962
dollars.
I
would
like
to
once
again
this
year
publicly
thank
all
of
our
employees
who
continue
to
provide
quality
needed
service
to
the
citizens
of
Philadelphia.
C
They
are
to
be
commended
and
congratulated.
My
post
audit
division
performed
a
produced,
its
annual
auditor's
report,
which
encompassed
an
audit
of
all
42
city
departments.
In
addition,
post
audit
completed
the
following
three
performance
audits,
including
the
follow
up
of
licenses
and
inspections,
Fire
Department
response
times
and
Filla
Corp,
the
inmate
trades
program
for
opinions
on
the
financial
statements
of
the
city
and
the
school
district
of
philadelphia
to
reports
on
internal
controls
related
to
the
for
opinion,
audits,
12,
grant
related
audit
reports
and
an
opinion
on
the
city's
five-year
forecasted
statements
for
fiscal
year.
C
Twenty
sixteen
to
twenty
twenty
from
the
audits
and
reports
I
just
listed,
we
made
a
total
of
245
recommendations
to
safeguard
city
and
school
district
assets,
enhanced
financial
management,
strengthen
internal
accounting
controls
and
improve
economies
and
efficiencies
in
all.
My
post
audit
division
identified
financial
reporting
errors,
compliance
deficiencies,
cost
reductions
and
increased
revenues
totaling
more
than
2.2
billion
dollars.
Our
pre
audit
division
provides
oversight
of
the
city's
payment
in
purchasing
processes,
pre-audit
monitors
reviews
and
approves,
or
disapproves
all
requisitions
for
payment
of
city
funds
and
responds
to
daily
requests
for
information
regarding
vendor
payments.
C
This
division
process
more
than
300,000
payment
vouchers,
representing
more
than
4.8
billion
dollars
in
expenditures.
The
pre
audit
division
also
conducted
several
important
investigations
and
audits,
including
a
follow-up
review
of
the
conditions
of
Philadelphia's
public
school
buildings
that
uncovered
several
hazardous
conditions.
At
selected,
schools,
including
us,
exposed
to
asbestos
electrical
and
fire
dangers
and
water
damage
most
recently,
our
pre
audit
division,
in
conjunction
with
the
offices,
finance
and
policy
unit,
conducted
a
review
on
the
status
of
the
city's
diversity
and
inclusion
program
and
the
efficacy
of
changes
implemented
over
the
past
seven
years.
C
As
a
result
of
this
review,
the
controller's
office
made
several
recommendations
regarding
contract
monitoring
and
enforcement.
Reporting
participation
results,
developing
a
local
mentor-protege
program,
establishing
a
pre-apprenticeship
program
and
the
certification
process,
based
on
reviews
and
recommendations
from
pre-audit.
Three
of
the
four
city
departments
that
administer
capital
projects
have
invited
our
technical
staff
to
conduct
workshops
for
their
project
inspectors
and
managers
to
encourage
cost
savings
and
to
increase
accuracy
and
efficiency
in
Billings
and
inspections.
C
The
fraud
and
Special
Investigations
Division
completed
81
cases
over
the
last
year,
including
contract
fraud,
misuse
of
City
equipment,
timekeeping
fraud,
employee
misconduct
and
residency
violations.
The
unit
was
heavily
involved
in
our
ongoing
assessments
of
Ellen
eyes
operations
and
their
imminently
dangerous
building
program
and
the
most
recent
assessment
of
the
revenue
department's
mail
center
operations.
The
finance
and
policy
division
continued
its
efforts
to
evaluate
the
economic
climate
of
our
city,
as
well
as
work
with
the
public
and
private
sector
to
identify
opportunities
that
can
build
job
growth.
C
This
included
the
following
continuing
to
work
with
the
anchor
procurement
initiative,
which
laid
out
a
roadmap
for
boosting
job
growth,
particularly
in
manufacturing.
Our
report
influenced
the
national
discussion
and
anchor
procurement
by
pointing
out
the
critical
role
of
supply
chain
integrators
like
aramark
and
office
depot.
Since
January,
we
have
been
actively
partner
partnering
with
the
Commerce
Department
on
implementing
this
initiative
conducted
an
economic
impact
statement
for
the
market
east
tax,
increment
financing,
t
f,
TIFF
project.
C
All
these
reports
were
models
of
data-driven
policy
analysis
that
we
believe
can
help
our
city
make
better
decisions
on
how
to
allocate
scarce
resources
and
adopt
policies
that
show
real
results
for
our
local
economy.
In
addition,
we
continued
our
efforts
to
promote
financial
literacy
for
Philadelphians
of
all
ages.
We
distributed
financial
resource
booklets
to
every
school
and
had
been
providing
money,
smart
cards
to
the
twelve
thousand
twelve
graders,
with
the
help
of
City
Council
on
the
School
District
of
Philadelphia.
C
We
greatly
expanded
our
reach
this
year
to
provide
free
resources
to
as
many
educators,
parents
and
youth
as
possible.
We
look
forward
to
working
with
City
Council's
that
was
forward
with
examining
the
possibility
of
providing
financial
education
courses
in
the
classroom.
Our
work
with
youth
over
the
last
year
was
expanded
to
our
newly
created
youth
mentor
program.
Students
work
with
our
staff
to
conduct
an
audit
of
an
issue
or
topic
that
the
students
find
important
to
their
daily
lives
while
having
the
opportunity
to
work
in
a
professional
environment
and
to
learn
about
career
paths.
C
The
students
have
produced
exciting
findings.
One
report
found
the
lack
of
transparency
over
the
lunch
program
and
another
report
examined
crime
and
recreation
centers
with
surveillance
cameras.
I
will
continue
working
on
issues
and
solutions
to
make
Philadelphia
a
better
place
for
those
who
live
and
work
here
and,
most
importantly,
I
will
continue
to
find
more
revenues
that
are
owed
the
city
and
identify
performance
and
management
efficiencies
throughout
city
government.
So
we
can
have
the
added
resources
needed
to
fund
the
programs
that
provide
necessary
city
services.
C
B
You
very
much
mr.
controller
heavy
question
page
one
of
your
testimony.
You
state
that
your
post
audit
division
identified
financial
reporting
errors,
compliance
deficiencies,
cost
reductions
and
increased
revenues,
totaling
more
than
2.2
billion
first
part
of
part
1a
is
does
that
include
the
school
district
in
second
in
detail
where
your
team
found
the
most
cost
reduction
and
increased
revenue
opportunities
within
the
city
departments,
I
guess.
D
My
name
is
Jeremy
chula
and
the
post
audit
deputy
city
controller.
The
answer
to
your
first
question
was:
yes,
it
does
include
the
school
district.
A
lot
of
those
included
in
that
2.2
billion
dollar
amount
a
lot
of
mistakes
that
we
find
in
the
preparation
of
both
the
school
district,
financial
statements
and
the
city
of
Philadelphia
financial
statements.
In
terms
of
the
second
question,
I
think
we
we
need
to
probably
do
a
better
goal
would
do
a
better
job
trying
to
collect
some
of
the
revenues
that
are
out
there
that
have
been.
D
D
The
top
of
my
head
I
can't
remember
the
exact
amount
that
would
be
related
to
revenue.
I.
Believe,
though,
that
a
lot
of
it
has
to
do
more
with
the
expenditure
side,
errors
that
we
find
in
reporting,
expenditure
amounts
okay,
but
I
certainly
could
go
back
and
I
certainly
can
isolate.
How
much
of
that
2.2
billion
dollar
pertain
to
the
revenue
side.
Yeah.
B
E
B
When,
in
fact,
we
do
see
something
like
that
happening,
we
would
hope
that,
maybe
it's
not
an
anomaly,
maybe
it's
something
that
can
continue
to
reoccur
as
it
relates
to
our
ability
to
identify
additional
revenues.
The
controller
said:
that's
a
significant
part
of
what
he
would
like
to
do
with
this
office.
All
right.
D
E
C
F
F
I
gotta
tell
you
over
the
years
I've
watched
you
closely
in
your
career
and
you
know
we
have
a
you
know,
jovial
kind
of
relationship
both
personally
and
professionally,
and
in
a
way
we
say
that
you
speak
truth
to
power
and
and
I
think
some
of
your
audits,
certainly
in
to
indicate
that
you're
doing
the
right
thing
for
the
city,
citizens
of
City,
Philadelphia
I
just
want
to
add
a
question
and
I
know
this.
Is
the
post
audit
regarding
the
school
district
gonna
be
2.2
billion
dollars?
D
D
D
D
They
might,
they
might
accrue
a
expenditure
incorrectly
this
year,
for
example,
there
might
be
a
problem.
We
examine
payables
every
year,
so
it
there
it's
pretty
much
just
a
timing
difference.
They
picked
up
the
expenditure
in
the
wrong
here
all
right,
but
that
requires
an
adjustment
to
the
financial
statements.
Otherwise
they
will
be
incorrect.
D
No,
they
haven't
done
so
yet.
Okay,
we're
in
the
process
of
finalizing
the
what
we
call
the
letter
of
internal
control,
which
will
probably
be
sent
to
them
later
this
week.
Okay,
generally,
though,
in
terms
of
those
dollar
amounts
that
we
find
in
the
statements,
they
will
make
the
adjustments
to
the
financial
statements.
Otherwise,
we
would
have
to
issue
an
opinion
that
would
not
be.
It
would
not
be
what
we
call
a
clean
opinion.
D
F
D
When
they
get
the
when
they
get
our
letter
of
internal
control,
yes,
they
will
be
given
a
certain
period
of
time.
Generally,
we
have
a
what
we
call
what
we
refer
to
as
an
exit
conference.
The
exit
conference
is
generally
about
a
week
after
we
send
them
a
copy
of
the
report.
The
report
deals
with
different
weaknesses.
D
F
F
So
we
get
a
mile
I
think
counsel
will
be
in
you
know,
in
communication,
with
with
the
controllers
office,
maybe
we
can
get
a
callback
on
one,
the
responses
all
right,
so
I
appreciate
them.
I
have
an
adulterer
before
I
turn
it
over
mr.
controller,
you
had
had
a
report
and
press
conference
and
made
some
suggestions
about
the
pensions
in
the
buyouts,
with
some
thirty
thirty-one
thousand
beneficiaries
of
the
city
pensions
front.
It
has
there
been
a
final
actually
the
finalized
actuary
report
when
a
projected
costs
and
the
savings
of
these
by
else
no.
C
C
C
C
Right
now,
I
mean
I.
I
have
no
no
optimism
that
you'd
get
that
kind
of
response
from
city
workers.
The
second
proposal,
which
has
more
legs
as
more
possibility,
is
a
little
more
complicated
and
that
involves
getting
the
people
who
are
still
active
to
the
1967
plans
to
agree
to
accept
the
benefits
that
are
provided
under
to
all
city
workers
under
the
87
plans,
and
that
would
yield
something
in
the
right.
We
don't
have
actuarial
numbers.
C
F
A
A
C
C
C
We
had
a
lot
of
conflict
with
the
nutter
administration
over
it.
For
many
years
we
indicated
there
was
something
like
25
million
dollars
to
be
recovered
by
doing
things
like
correctly
getting
people,
social
security
numbers
and
by
changing
the
vendor,
and
they
kind
of
begrudgingly
listed
a
million
dollars
as
a
potential
revenue
and
then
towards
the
end
of
the
administration.
They
accepted
our
number,
but
that
was
the
largest
operational
savings.
We
were
able
to
identify
well.
A
C
There's
there's
kind
of
the
Philadelphia
approach
of
we've
always
done
it
this
way,
so
we
always
want
to
do
it
that
way,
and
there
was
an
unfortunate
dynamic
that
developed
during
another
administration,
which
was
any
kind
of
I'm
sure.
People
in
councillor,
familiar
than
any
kind
of
initiative
that
came
from
outside
the
administration,
was
simply
rejected
out
of
hand
because
it
became
very
public
relations
dominated
rather
than
operationally
dominated
so.
A
C
Yes,
yeah
and
I
think
the
mayor
has
been
very,
very
open
to
new
ideas
and
very
willing
to
share
ideas
and
to
use
the
pencil
on
the
eraser
and
the
pencil
and
go
over
it.
I
think
he's
very
refreshingly
open
to
that
and,
for
example,
in
the
fire
department
I
mean
he
very
quickly
embraced
the
findings
that
we
made
in
the
fire
department.
C
You
know,
there's
a
there's,
an
ironic
situation
to
resolve
that
conflict
over
the
last
eight
years
about
brownouts
and
the
stated
rationale
for
it
was
that
it
was
going
to
save
money
that
they
they
were
going
to
save
four
million
dollars
a
year
and
then,
within
six
months
of
the
initiation
of
it,
we
pointed
out
that
they
were
about
minus
three
million
dollars,
that
they
were
losing
money
on
overtime
and
other
costs,
and
it
turns
out
over
the
over
the
life
of
that
program.
They
lost
20
million
dollars.
A
Me
ask
you
a
question:
cuz
I'm,
coming
from
a
different
viewpoint
from
the
private
world
in
a
private
world
ahead
of
a
company
would
call
you
in
with
whoever
it
applies
to
whether
it's
red
finance
and
sit
down
with
you
and
say:
listen.
We
have
a
potential,
a
save
or
collect
100
million
dollars.
Do
you
guys
agree?
How
do
we
get
this
done?
How
do
we
move
forward?
Why
can't
that
happen?.
C
Here,
well
sometimes
it's
because
the
city
is
not
willing
or
able
to
invest
what's
necessary
in
order
to
have
so.
It
happened
with
the
creation
at
311
program,
which
was
said
that
was
going
to
be
like
New
York's
program,
but
then
the
investment
was
a
fraction
of
what
was
necessary
for
it.
Recently,
we've
talked
about
the
computerization.
C
On
Ellen
I,
where,
where
the
computer
programming
that
was
promised,
had
a
price
tag
of
seven
and
a
half
million
dollars,
eclipse
in
the
city
only
put
in
four
and
a
half
night,
and
then
the
policy
pronouncements
expect
the
same
results
as
if
the
information
to
you
know
we
have
primitive
information
technology
here.
One
of
my
most
unfavorite
examples
is
the
house
in
Philadelphia
that
regularly
gets
a
bill
for
something
I
forget
whether
it's
40
thousand
a
month
or
two
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
month,
and
there
is
no
way
for
water
revenue
to
correct
it.
C
So
they
just
know
that
that's
a
problem
and
they
take
a
pen
and
they
cross
it
out
every
month.
It's
incomprehensible
to
me
that
we
don't
have
the
capacity
in
her
data
system
to
after
we
know
about
that.
To
change
that-
and
you
know
there
are.
There
are
reams
of
problems
like
that
in
the
sheriff's
office.
If
you
had
to
rely
on
the
database
to
tell
you
who
owes
what
and
what's
the
status
of
things
you
can't
do
it,
you
really
need
institutional
memory.
G
E
Let
me
start
and
I
want
to
go
back
to
the
subject
that
you
touched
on
a
little
earlier
and
just
bear
with
me.
I,
don't
usually
sound
like
a
husky
Viking
everyday,
but
this
thing
is
taken
taking
the
best
of
my
voice,
the
issue
associated
with
buyout,
so
one
I
wanted
to
commend
you
for
even
attempting
to
offer
a
a
a
solution:
5.7
billion
dollars
of
unfunded
liability,
five
billion
of
that
attributed
to
play
in
67
loss,
Court's
precedent
saying
that
we
can't
do
anything
to
address
those
currently
receiving
benefits.
E
So
municipalities
across
the
country
find
themselves
like
strapped
trying
to
find
an
answer.
So
I
want
you
to
go
back
and
delve
into
your
response.
When
you,
you
mention
a
potential
option
versus
of
everyone
thinking
when
you
first
talked
about
this
idea
that
all
of
those
currently
receiving
benefits
under
play
in
67
will
receive
a
buyout
and
we're
just
talking
about
what
it
would
look
like.
E
You
just
described
that
potentially
those
who
are
still
active
contributors
in
playing
67
and
how
that
corolla
does
that
option
that
you
just
referenced
have
anything
to
do
with
the
IRS
and
the
US
Treasuries
ruling
regarding
notice
2015
49,
where
they
actually
prohibited
the
private
sector
from
being
able
to
offer
love
some
sort
of
buyouts
as
ad
risking
a
strategy
for
the
fun,
because
at
first
people
would
look
and
say:
okay
yeah.
This
is
a
potential
option.
Treasury
and
IRS
get
together
and
say
private
sector.
No,
you
can't
do
this.
E
C
E
C
On
the
other
hand,
there
has
been
a
series
of
reforms
by
this
council
over
the
years,
so
going
back
actually
to
mayor
goods
tenure,
which
is
when
the
the
87
plan
was
instituted,
and
then
there
is
a
consensus
view
that
the
benefits
that
the
city
Oh
pays
to
current
employees
are
you
mane
and
enough
to
live
on.
So
if
you
can
live
on
on
87
benefits
it.
C
It's
kind
of
a
bonus
to
have
benefits
that
are
more
generous
than
that
and
if,
if
the
workers
in
that
plan
feel
that
they
have
a
need
to
acquire
$50,000
right
now
to
do
something
that
they
need.
It's
one
thing
to
have
money
on
a
monthly
basis
to
pay
your
rent
and
your
food,
but
that
doesn't
necessarily
mean
people
are
able
to
amass
fifty
thousand
dollars
or
seventy
thousand
dollars
when
they,
when
they
need
it.
When
there's
some
major
life
event,
so
that
second
plan
could
accommodate
both
requirements.
It
wouldn't
be
shoved
down
anybody's
throat.
C
It
would
involve
city
workers
having
to
agree
by
a
large
majority
that
they
want
to
see
the
program
and
would
involve
choices
by
city
workers
to
accept
that
option,
but
most
times
be
constitutionally,
as
you
know,
and
there's
been
an
awful
lot
of
battling
about
taken
away,
defined,
benefit
pensions
and
doing
things
to
workers-
and
you
know
you-
these
are
property
rights
that
those
workers
earned
and
are
constitutionally
protected.
So
that's
the
way
that
it
would
have
to
be
approached
well.
E
Let
me
just
say
this
to
you,
mr.
controller
one
again
I.
Thank
you
for
attempting
to
make
a
recommendation
that
could
be
a
potential
solution
to
something
that
I
think
we
all
agree
is.
Is
a
major
crisis
facing
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
My
note
that
councilman
Derrick
green
has
introduced
a
resolution
calling
for
hearings
on
this
issue.
I
want
you
to
know
that
the
state
of
retirement
security
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
you
and
I
have
had
conversation
about.
C
G
Thank
You
councilman
henan
mr.
controller
good
morning,
honey
125
on
some
questions
that
the
council
president
and
counsel
him
answer
referred
to
the
school
district.
In
reference
to
the
information
provided
in
your
testimony
that
detailed
at
2.2
billion
dollars
that
was
not
based
on
a
performance
audit
that
was
based
on
a
reviewer
opinion
on
their
financial
information.
That's.
G
So
and
I
notice
that
no
as
part
of
your
duties
that
control
you
do
performance,
audits
and
I
know
you've
stated
publicly
and
other
realms
that
the
engines
of
doing
performance
audit
well
in
the
school
district.
Can
you
give
some
perspective
on
the
current
state
of
that
opportunity
to
review
their
information,
more
detail,
I.
C
Think
I
think
superintendent
height
would
be
interested
in
us
doing
more
intensive
audits,
that's
the
sense
I've
gotten,
but
I
don't
think
the
SRC
wants
us
to
do
that
and
in
fact
there
was
a.
There
was
a
vote
at
the
SRC
to
try
to
strip
us
of
the
power
to
do
some
of
the
auditing
that
we
already
do
so
they
have
been
they've,
had
a
history
of
being
very
kind
of
defensive
and
protective
almost
like
they
should
audit
and
review
themselves
and
not
have
to
answer
to
anybody.
C
So
that's
kind
of
consistent
with
that
approach.
I
mean
one.
One
issue
that
has
been
a
particular
annoyance
to
me
has
been
the
non
transparency
of
the
capital
program
because
when
I
came
on
the
scene,
the
big
issue
was
valises
recommendation
that
he
was
going
to
borrow
three
billion
dollars
in
build
75
schools
in
Philadelphia
and
everything
will
be
wonderful.
Everybody
was
going
to
be
in
their
own
Microsoft
school
and
the
schools
were
going
to
be
round
so
he'd
be
able
to
see
all
the
way
around
the
school.
C
Nobody
be
able
to
ambush
anybody,
and
it
was
just
a
dream
and
we've
had
a
hard
time
tracking
down
exactly
what
that
spending
was
for,
but
a
lot
of
it
was
for
operational
costs.
It
was
not
for
what
was
sold
it.
The
school
district
is
in
a
negative
financial
statement
position
by
about
three
billion
dollars
just
about
by
the
same
number
as
was
touted
as
that
borrowing
and,
as
you
know,
just
about
every
school
building
in
Philadelphia's
below
code.
They
have
major
asbestos
problems.
They've
got
water
problems,
they've
got
sick
building
syndrome.
C
They
even
had
a
problem
earlier
this
year,
where
the
bathrooms
were
that
had
floating
human
waste
that
couldn't
be
flushed
and
couldn't
be
fixed
because
they
would
only
get
janitorial
service
one
day
a
week.
So
now
there's
a
question
about
water
and
lead
contamination,
so
I
mean
every
year
we
find
I'd
say
it's.
The
operating
side
has
been
getting
better
since
height
has
been
in
this
school
district
has
been
paying
more
attention
to
spending
money
efficiently
and
trying
to
accomplish
their
mission
I.
C
Just
there
was
a
comment
a
few
weeks
ago
that
the
school
districts
been
billed
seven
million
dollars
for
abusing
grant
money.
Now
that
that
was
a
major
fight.
When
we
had
back
around
six
and
seven
and
again
balances
view
was
money
is
fungible,
money's,
money
and
I
don't
care
whether
they
put
it
into
this
grain
or
that
gray
and
I'm
going
to
use
it
for
what
I
want?
C
Well,
you
know
that's
illegal
I
mean
there
are
plenty
of
the
federal
investigations
bending
on
on
using
money
for
outside
the
guidelines
of
what
the
money
has
been
entrusted
to
you.
For
so
now,
the
school
district
has
actually
been
fortunate
because
at
one
time
I
think
there
was
a
recommendation
that
they
were
going
to
have
to
pay
50
million
dollars
in
fines
for
misusing
money
that
was
being
provided
for
school
lunches,
yeah,
so
I
would
commend
height
and
what's
his
name,
the
mats
danske
and
a
lorry
Monson
for
taking
a
firmer
financial
control.
C
The
financial
rains
still
concerned
about
what
happened
with
the
capital
spending
and
how
is
that
going
to
hamper
us
with
providing
the
kind
of
relief
and
corrections?
That
should
be
made
to
school
buildings
and
based
on
long
experience
and
and
suspicious
of
the
bunker
mentality
in
the
school
district.
Again
in
one
year,
the
school
district
changed
their
accounting
so
that
items
that
were
used
to
be
included
in
one
definition
in
one
column,
we're
now
included
another
column.
Now
what
I
mean
it's
like
changing
the
calendar
every
year?
C
G
My
times,
I've
I
have
additional
questions.
I
just
want
to
follow
up
on
that
point.
As
you
know,
your
office
testified
at
the
hearings
that
were
held
regarding
a
resolution
ahead.
Regarding
concerns
issues
with
our
school
infrastructure.
Are
you
made
reference
to
lead,
paint
and
I?
Definitely
remember
when
Commissioner
vows
was
here
some
of
the
challenges
that
were
identified
and
reference
to
the
spending
of
capital
dollars
and
how
was
being
spent.
What
would
be
the
cost
to
do
a
performance
on
the
school
district?
There.
C
Are
so
many
aspects
of
the
school
district?
It
depends
what
what
particular
item
we
would
be
doing
a
deep
dive
on
most
of
the
performance
audits.
We
do
are
in
the
rain.
Well,
when
we,
when
we
use
private
consultants,
they
were
in
the
range
of
about
eighty
thousand
dollars
for
each
performance
audit.
We
have
now
philosophically
shifted
from
using
outside
consultants
to
beefing
up
our
staff
and
we
can
perform,
though
so
I,
don't
think
it's
a
purse,
a
question
of
cost
any
more.
C
The
question
would
be:
how
many
performance
audits
can
we
do
in
a
year,
the
largest,
the
number
that
I've
used
about
six
hundred
forty
thousand
dollars
was
used
because
the
most
intense
forensic
audit
we
ever
did
was
at
the
sheriff's
office
and
that
cost
six
hundred
forty
thousand
dollars.
So
I
knew
that
took
eight
months
and
that
involved
a
check
by
check
and
a
document
by
document
review.
So
to
me,
that's
kind
of
outlier
of
if
you
get
involved
real
deep
in
a
very
detailed
audit
that
might
be
what
it.
So.
What
is
this
video?
C
So
it
would
be
about
160
thousand
dollars
worth
of
staff
time.
A
year
to
do
a
performance
audit
at
the
school
district,
and
you
really
you're
really
not
talking
about
one
performance
audit
one
year,
you
might
look
at
the
manage
how
they
handle
transportation
and
another
year.
It
might
be
how
they
do
the
lunch
money
or
you
know
it's
a
it's
almost
a
three:
it's
a
2.3
billion
dollar
budget
at
the
so
to
get
valuable
information.
C
G
Just
to
conclude,
considering
you
were
able
to
identify
about
2.2
billion
in
identifying
audit
deficiencies
and
just
reviewing
their
financial
statements.
It's
pretty
clear,
considering
the
ongoing
issues
and
concerns
that
none
of
this
body
and
others
have
had
regarding
school
district
and
ongoing
annual
performance
audit
should
be
done.
I
have
some
additional
questions
and
I'll
ask
them
at
the
next
round.
H
You,
mr.
chairman,
welcome
back.
Thank
you
before
I
get
started.
I
want
to
say
that
politics,
aside,
sometimes
yeah,
but
your
department,
your
staff
are
always
informative,
always
on
top
of
fiscal
issues
related
to
our
city
and
for
that
I.
Thank
you
all,
and
that's
this
year,
I'd
like
to
just
say
that,
each
year,
when
we
have
appropriated
money
for
the
school
district.
H
Finally,
last
year
we
had
an
accountability
agreement
that
was
signed
off
on
and
I,
don't
even
know
if
it's
worth
the
paper
that
we
wrote
on
it
because
they
took
the
check
it
cleared
and
maybe
filed
it
in
the
round
file
of
their
office
for
the
accountability.
But
if
in
some
way
we
could
have
that
enforced.
If
in
some
way
we
could
have
that
looked
at,
we
may
get
some
of
the
answers
that
are
councilman
green
put
forth.
So
only
that
I'm
just
going
to
forward
the
agreement
that
we
had
the.
C
C
The
fact
that
there
was
a
Memorandum
of
Understanding
in
the
city
was
going
to
look
over
the
shoulders
of
the
school
district
and
make
sure
that
they
spent
the
money
properly
and
they
never
included
us
in
that
report,
which
meant
that
they
didn't
have
any
procedure
for
doing
what
they
said
and
then
they
appointed
a
committee
that
was
supposed
to
review
the
school
district's
finances
and
we
later
learned
that
the
committee
never
met
never
did
anything.
So
again,
it
was
a
public
relations
device
to
come
everybody's
nerves.
C
When
people
were
panicking
about
the
school
district
going
broke,
but
there
was
I
mean
how
would
counsel?
How
would
you
penetrate
a
2.3
billion
dollar
budget?
You
have
your
technical
staff,
it
would
be.
It
would
not
be
able
to
do
anything
else.
That
I
mean
they
would
all
have
to
become
experts
in
areas
of
the
school
district
budget,
and
then
they
would
have
to
they'd
be
on
the
phone
every
day.
Checking
out
what
does
this
mean?
What
does
that
mean?
C
I
mean
the
controller's
office
is
basically
the
the
mechanism
that
you
have
available
to
you
to
do
that
kind
of
invest.
Even
the
Auditor
General
has
to
do
502
school
districts
a
year.
How
could
they
possibly
do
the
kind
of
detailed
review
that
you're
asking
for
so
we
are
available.
We're
willing
to
do
it.
I
think
we've
got
a
very
responsive
relationship
with
council.
We
looked
at
NTI
years
ago
at
the
requested
counsel.
We
sorted
that
all
out,
but.
H
So
we
agree
that
that
needs
to
be
taken
in
a
partnership
way
to
test,
particularly
as
we
look
at
what
some
of
the
not
just
new
capital
projects,
but
some
of
the
maintenance
of
some
of
the
existing
projects
is
going
to
be
next
year.
Whenever
you
know,
as
we
review
reports,
I
think
it's
going
to
be
huge,
so
we
need
that
help
him
I'm
soliciting
that
help
what
I
want
to
talk
about
that
as
well
is
outdoor
advertising.
H
H
Particularly
as
we
start
to
these
relationships
start
to
expire,
and
it
is
one
council
to
renew
those
leases,
it
would
be
incumbent
to
see
if
we're
getting
as
a
municipality
of
what
we
agreed
to
and
I'm
no
disrespect.
I
have
three
golf
courses
in
my
district
and
I
know
that
there
I
was
a
freshman
when
we
entered
the
contract.
H
F
I
You
mr.
chairman,
good
good
morning,
still
morning
seems
later
than
that.
I
want
to
start
by
echoing
councilman
Jones's
comments
in
terms
of
our
working
relationship,
and
it
really
has
been
a
pleasure
to
work
with
you
and
your
staff
and
I
always
find
your
reports
to
be
very
informative
information
that
helps
guide
us
as
members
of
council
to
do
the
job
that
we
need
to
do,
and
so
I
really
just
wanted
to.
Thank
you
and
your
team
for
all
of
the
hard
work
that
you
all
do.
I
want
to
start
with
that.
I
I
don't
know
if
you
recall
a
few
years
ago,
our
office
to
work
with
every
district
member
of
council
to
make
sure
that
there
were
surveillance
cameras
in
every
recreation
center
and
playground
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
over
a
three-year
period,
and
so
I
know
that
you
know
we've
worked
hard
to
get
these
cameras
in.
So
obviously,
very
much
of
interest
to
me
is
what
your
report
said
about
crime
in
these
particular
cameras
that
we
had
installed.
We've.
C
Developed
partnerships
with
several
schools
and-
and
we
take
in
about
seven
or
eight
students
per
per
term
and
one
of
the
projects
is
for
them
to
pick
an
item
of
interest
and
one
of
those
teams
look
wanted
to
see
whether
the
cameras
in
their
recreation
center
we're
actually
functioning.
So
it's
used
as
a
learning
aid
about.
C
How
do
you
do
an
audit
and
then
they
all
get
personal
recommendations
for
use
in
their
college
applications
and
so
on,
but
we
will
be
happy
to
forward
it's
not
a
it's,
not
a
random
sample
or
anything
it
was
focused.
So
it
would
be
a
concrete
example
for
the
kids
about
why
auditing
can
be
important.
Okay
in
improving
your
life
sure.
I
That's
still
very
useful
information
for
us
to
have,
and
the
follow-up
question
excuse
me.
The
follow-up
question
to
that
is
once
you
determine
that
cameras
are
not
working
at
a
particular
recreation
center.
I
know
this
is
not
your
area
of
expertise,
especially,
but
once
you
I
have
determined
that
there
are
cameras,
header
out
I'm,
assuming
you
forward
that
information
on
to
the
proper
departments
to
make
sure
that
they
get
working,
whether
they
start
get
repaired
or
whatever
it
needs
to
be
done.
Yeah.
I
C
J
Good
morning,
good
morning,
John
top
John
Thomas
pre-audit
deputy
councilman.
As
you
know,
I've
been
working
for
you
and
his
staff
on
this
issue.
A
number
of
cities
have
established
these
programs,
and
they
see
me
work
be
working
in
these
in
these
cities.
The
idea
is
that
you
have
larger
firms.
You
have
expertise
and
experience
in
areas
that
say
smaller
firms
may
not
be
so.
We
want
to
establish
a
structured
relationship
with
the
smaller
firms
so
that
they
work
with
a
lot
affirmed
on
issues,
particularly
back
office
issues.
J
It's
not
a
matter
of
necessary
of
in
construction,
for
example,
not
to
teacher
company
how
to
do
construction
necessary
right,
but
they're,
the
back
office
that
building
the
estimating
those
things
where
some
of
the
smaller
firms
may
need
some
help.
Yes,
and
even
moving
from
working
in
private
construction
to
going
into
commercial
a
room
from
residential
going
to
commercial.
A
public
construction
is
a
whole
different
ballgame,
so
larger
firms
can
assist
smaller
fern
women
and
minority
firms
in
that
area.
J
I
And
put
it
Belle
comes
fast,
but
as
far
as
if
the
instructor
I
agree,
you
know,
obviously
we
need
to
have
you
know
as
much
help
as
possible
to
help
fill
capacity.
You
know
for
folks
that
we're
trying
to
make
sure
I'm
gonna
be
successful
once
they
arrive
at
the
door
so
but
I
have
more
questions.
I'll
come
back
around
on
my
second
round
Thank
You.
Mr.
chairman.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
Buckets
I
admire
your
work
on
behalf
of
the
city,
your
passion
which
you
serve.
It
is
a
little
bit
of
a
role
reversal
today.
Is
we
question
your
budget,
but
I
reviewed
your
budget
I,
don't
have
any
questions
for
your
office,
but
while
you're
here
I
wanted
to
take
the
opportunity
to
ask
you
what
you
think.
C
C
We
were
concerned
about
there
being
some
thin
margin,
one
on
the
on
the
fund.
Balance
pyka
didn't
agree
with
us,
you
know
other
than
that
I,
it's
really.
The
budget
is
really
a
policy
matter
for
council
I
mean
we
just
try
to
make
sure
that
the
numbers
add
up
and
that
the
city
can
is
not
going
to
run
into
a
deficit
over
it.
So
I
mean
that
that's
the
only
concern
is
I
just
want
to
learn
from
your
expertise,
your
yeah.
K
J
C
No
I
mean
one
of
the
issues
over
time
has
been
kind
of
deferred,
maintenance
and
neglect
of
things
that
are
eventually
going
to
come.
Do
that's
our
whole
infrastructure
problem?
No,
the
playgrounds,
we've
done
many
reports,
and
this
just
as
councilman
bass
has
been
on.
It
are
dangerous
for
kids
because
you
got
protruding
metal
bars
and
you
have
all
sorts
of
problems.
So
in
past
years
the
city
has
cut
back
on
short-term
operating
costs.
That's
why
you
have
potholes.
C
C
You
know
I
would
mean
the
thing
that
we
are
Cano.
Avi
has
given
the
city,
an
extraordinary
expansion
in
its
borrowing
see
right.
So
the
city
was
just
about
at
its
borrowing
limit
and
because
avi
multiplied.
The
value
of
the
real
estate
in
the
city
by
10.
The
city
now
has
the
power
to
borrow
a
billion
dollars
a
year
over
the
next
10
years.
C
If
they
want
to
the
mayor
has
assured
us
that
he's
not
going
to
do
he's
not
going
to
recommend
any
kind
of
borrowing
that
doesn't
come,
accompanied
with
revenues
that
will
pay
the
debt
service.
But
that
is
simply
a
promise
by
this
matter.
It's
nothing
that
is
in
concrete
or
in
law.
So
I
guess.
Our
structural
concern
is
over
the
course
of
ten
years.
C
There
might
be
a
temptation
to
take
advantage
of
the
borrowing
power.
So
if
the
city
hypothetically
was
going
to
borrow
ten
billion
dollars
over
the
next
ten
years,
we
would
more
than
double
our
debt
and
we
would
be
increasing
our
annual
debt
service
under
current
low
interest
rate
by
about
250
million
dollars
a
year.
So,
at
a
time
when
everybody
is
talking
about
a
six
hundred
million,
six
hundred,
fifty
million
dollar
Europe
came
into
the
pension
fund.
C
But
you
have
all
sorts
of
potential
disasters
over
the
horizon,
such
as
a
failure
of
the
state
to
come
to
terms
with
the
school
funding
crisis,
and
it's
going
to
require
I,
think
a
resolve
and
an
understanding
for
fiscal
discipline
to
not
take
advantage
of
that
credit
card
if
the
other
players
don't
step
up
to
the
plate
and
and
do
what
they're
supposed
to
fund
our
essential
services.
So
mr.
K
K
So
so
it's
not
the
portion.
That's
coming
to
the
to
the.
Let
me
clarify
question
I'm,
sorry,
the
authorized
portion
of
the
pike,
the
wage
tax
for
Pike
will
conclude
in
2023,
meaning
that
if
it
is
not
renewed
somehow
and
not
that
it
should
be,
maybe
it
should
be,
but
that
is
about
350
million
dollars
per
year
to
the
city,
which
would
disappear.
C
C
So
the
fact
that
I
think
the
city
is
going
to
be
forced
to
look
at
a
variety
of
options
for
revenues,
because
there's
no
reason
to
believe
that
costs
are
going
to
stop
stop
in
the
future
heart,
it's
hard
to
speculate
on
what
the
situation
will
be
in
2023,
but
if
there's,
if
there's
a
tax,
that
is
expiring
that
usually
attracts
the
policy
makers.
Yeah.
K
K
Or
whatever,
but
a
couple
years
after
that,
there's
a
big,
gaping
hole
and
I
know
that
our
city
finance
folks
say
that
they're
going
to
work
on
this
starting
next
year,
but
it's
hard
for
me
to
figure
out
how
to
vote
properly.
If
I
don't
see
that
there
is
a
plan
B
to
how
we
are
going
to
pay
down
our
our
pension
debts
and
do
everything
else.
K
If
we're
going
to
be
absent,
an
amount
of
money-
and
me
personally
I
have
said
many
times
to
the
disagreement
of
many
that
I
like
to
see
that
portion
of
the
pike,
the
waves
tax
disappear.
I,
think
you
know
it's
good
to
have
that
tax
disappear.
There
might
be
a
need
for
some
additional
taxes,
but
anyway,
that
is.
That
is
something
that
maybe
I
could
talk
with
you
about
later.
Let
me
ask
you,
then
I
had
a
conversation
here
with
the
commissioner
Ross,
and
it
was
just
a
conversation
I'd
like
your
thoughts
on
this.
K
We
talked
about
drones
and,
and
it
was,
it
was
kind
of
reported
as
a
cost-saving.
But
but
you
know,
my
interest
is
in
more
effective
city
services
for
emergency
responders,
for
police
for
sheriff
for
L&I,
in
the
sense
that
I
wonder
what
the
costs
are
when
there's
a
false
alarm
and
we
have
engine
and
ladders,
rushing
someplace
and
I
think
they
should
rush
I,
don't
think
they
should
wait.
But
if
a
drone
could
be
sent
over
and
if
it's
a
false
alarm
they
could
they
could
go
back
to
the
station
arm.
K
C
Well,
we
have
a
meeting
scheduled
May
twenty-third
with
stakeholders
and
drones,
we're
very
enthusiastic
about
the
potential
we've
explored
it
already
in
an
area
that
we've
kind
of
specialized
in
building
inspections,
we've
seen
efforts
by
rescue
agencies
in
New
Jersey,
where
they've
they
didn't
do
it
through
Jones.
They
did,
but
through
a
mounted
cameras
where
they
can
determine
what
is
a
less
congested
route
for
an
ambulance.
I
think
there's
all
sorts
of
potential
there.
C
F
Thank
You
councilman
mr.
controller
and
one
of
the
one
of
the
findings
of
the
anchor
procurement
initiative
report
is
that
we
need
the
two-way
communication
between
your
manufacturers
and
the
purchases
of
goods.
The
Department
of
industry
manufacturing
is
currently
working
on
a
database
for
manufacturers
right
now.
Currently,
what
sort
of
information
should
they
include?
C
I
mean
it's
going
to
depend
on
the
purchaser
right
now
we're
working
with
a
number
of
the
hospitals
on
the
creation
of
a
of
a
medical
laundry
in
Philadelphia.
So
in
that
situation,
what
you
want
to
know,
or
what
are
the
specifications
of
the
product
or
service
that
the
purchaser
needs
they
need
to?
You
know
they
need
absolute
guarantee
delivery.
Every
morning,
they're
going
to
have
certain
specification
regarding.
C
Sanitary
conditions
that
they
may
not
require
in
regular
long
they're
going
to
have
an
extraordinary
capacity
to
provide
that
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
The
idea
is
to
create
a
database
in
a
communication
base
so
that
you're
not
doing
what
they
used
to
do
in
shop
classes.
When
I
went
to
school,
which
is
they
taught
you
for
professions
that
didn't
exist
for
the
last
20
or
30
years.
F
C
F
Recently
so
it'd
be
nice
to
collaborate
as
they're
building
your
database
now,
so
we
could
I
just
narrow
down
specific
information
that
we
can
provide
to
institutions
that
will
be
beneficial
for
them,
for
using
local
procurement
or
at
least
working
towards
more
of
a
local
procurement
policy.
Now
are
their
policies
that
we
can
put
into
place
to
further
incentivize
or
local
network
here
to
use
local
manufacturing
and
impa
cure
meats.
Can
we
do
something
it
in
a
new
policy
matter?
What.
C
I
think
there's
a
genuine
interest
on
the
part
of
the
of
the
meds
and
Ed's
to
do
that.
They
recognize
it
as
something
that
will
be
important
in
making
sure
that
the
environment
they
live
in.
Is
it's
upwardly
mobile,
I?
Think
after
we
get
some
concrete
results
in
that
area,
the
next
step
will
be
to
try
to
get
city
government
and
other
large
businesses,
comcast
aramark,
other
large
Philadelphia
businesses
to
agree
to
the
same
kind
of
approach
we
are
working
with.
C
Another
group
was
it
I,
see
I
see
which
is
which
is
has
a
specific
focus
on
helping
to
cultivate
inner
city
businesses
and
grow
them
from
from
this
about
a
two-million-dollar
size
to
a
20
million
dollar
size.
The
the
chief
executive
talks
about
one
business
that
went
from
a
street
vendor
sale
of
hair
products
into
a
20
million
dollar
a
year.
It's
like
an
800
million
dollar
business
manufacturing
and
distributing
those
products
and
they
went
through
their
training
program
and
through
their
access
to
New,
York
capital
markets.
C
F
I
agree,
you
know
recently.
If
they
go
over
the
last
year
and
a
half
two
years,
you
know
having
more
of
a
centralized
office.
That's
that's,
collaborating
and
working
together
for
for
better
services.
You
know
trying
to
you
know,
work
specific
packages
or
you
know,
profiles
towards
you
know
an
individual
manufacturing
to
help
incentivize
them.
You
know
and
not
incentivized
away,
just
given
a
better
opportunity
to
share
in
what
we
have
to
offer
here
is
up
as
a
market
share
in
the
city
philadelphia.
F
C
C
The
problem
that
they
have
is
breaking
through
the
bureaucratic
regimen
in
their
company,
where
they
were
a
deal,
has
been
made
at
a
higher
level
than
them
that
they're
going
to
procure
from
certain
producers,
and
the
second
one
is
to
guarantee
that
they're
going
to
have
reasonable
price
parity
and
quality
piracy
parity
with
the
with
the
put
the
suppliers
that
they're
going
to
be
displacing.
Oh.
F
You
know,
there's
no
reason
we
should
be
being
proud.
You
know
buying
products
in
Jersey
all
right
when
jerseys
trying
to
attract
you
know
our
local
businesses.
You
know
three
miles
three
million
dollars
ready
to
move.
You
know
vacating,
you
know
you
know
residents
here
at
of
the
opportunity
to
go
to
work
right
in
our
own
neighborhoods.
So
you
know
I'd
be
interested
in.
F
You
know
I,
think
you
have
a
good
base
foundation
right
there,
that
that
we
could
that
we
could
work
upon
my
last
question
before
I
turn
it
over
is
last
year,
and
you
were
talking
about
demolitions
and
everything
it
several
times
in
your
conversations
here
and
testimony
last
year
you
released
the
report
and
vacant
buildings
with
open
violations.
Do
you
have
a
cost
estimate
in
terms
of
inspections,
repairs,
administration
and
court
costs
versus
the
demolition?
A
Thank
You,
chairman
Eden,
just
a
another
question,
but
it's
we're
really
asking
your
opinion
on
something,
and
that
is
the
mayor's
initiatives
which
I
think
everyone
agrees
are
great.
Initiatives
with
the
new
budget
and
I
would
like
to
know
your
opinion
on
one
where
you
think
of
this
potential:
soda
tax
or
sugary,
drink
tax
and
two.
If
not,
that
what
alternatives
would
you
recommend
to
us?
The.
C
C
The
first
thing
I'll
say
is
I
mean
them.
The
mayor
has
a
great
vision
in
terms
of
what
he
wants
to
accomplish
for
pre-kindergarten.
Let
me
know
all
the
research
and
everything
I
think
for
too
often
mayor's
have
kind
of
deferred
delving
into
education,
because
it's
such
a
thankless
task-
and
he
really
does
seem
to
have
a
commitment
to
doing
something
about
changing
the
embedded
poverty
problem.
C
My
personal
philosophy
on
these
kinds
of
taxes
is
the
taxes,
are
things
that
we
pay
his
dues
to
live
in
a
civilized
society
and
that
they
ought
to
be
generalized
because
the
concern
is
at
a
certain
level,
it
really
tilts
the
scales
industry
by
industry.
So
during
another
administration
we
had
an
issue
with
the
agreement
that
was
made
on
stormwater
fees.
C
They
went
up
by
three
hundred
eighty
four
thousand
dollars
a
month
and
that's
why
it's
really
painful
necessary
for
the
city
to
have
a
broader
range
of
options
and
how
it
pays
for
this,
because,
since
the
since
the
Rendell
administration,
the
mantra
has
been,
we
can't
have
can't
have
the
wage
tax,
because
that
stigmatizes
Philadelphia
as
the
only
big
city
with
that
kind
of
disincentive
and
it
drives
businesses
into
the
suburbs.
And
so
now
the
wage
tax
has
been
ensconced.
C
C
So
what
we're
going
to
do
is
we're
going
to
do
a
survey
around
the
country
about
revenue
options
and
see
if,
if
we
can
contribute
anything
constructive
on
on
possible
alternatives
or
supplements
I,
you
know
I
think
the
mayor's
kind
of
stuck
in
having
a
vision
and
wanting
to
do
these
initiatives
that
are
important
and
having
his
hands
tied
by
Harrisburg.
What
he
can
do
for
revenue.
So
I
sympathize
with
the
position.
I,
certainly
wouldn't
want
to
see
him
lose
on
his
pre
kindergarten
or
I.
C
F
I
You
so
much
Thank,
You,
councilman,
appreciate
it.
I
have
a
question
about
your
fraud,
a
Special
Investigations
Division,
and
can
you
give
a
little
bit
of
detail
in
terms
of
how
that
differs?
The
work
differs
from
what
happens
with
the
inspector
general
and
the
reason
I'm
asking.
This
is
because
I
have
a
really
a
very
specific
area,
focus
that
I'm
thinking
of
which
is
a
lot
of
the
contracts
that
happen
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
I
Where
you
have
you
know
general
contractors,
prime
contractors,
who
go
into
an
agreement
with
the
city
of
Philadelphia
who
say
that
they
have.
You
know
that
they're
using,
as
you
know,
somewhat
of
color
or
minority
they
use
you
know
whatever
their
number
is
that
determines
that
they
are
actually
on
the
job
and
they
have
never
used
this.
This
firm,
a
person
or
whatever
there
are
no
repercussions,
and
it
doesn't
seem
as
if
anyone
has
picked
up
the
ball
on
this,
whether
it's
the
inspector
general
or
it's,
your
fraud
and
Special
Investigations
Division.
C
First
of
all,
you
know
the
Inspector
General
has
limited
jurisdiction.
They
kind
of
a
look
at
departments
under
the
mayor's
direct
control,
whereas
we
have
general
jurisdiction,
okay.
Secondly,
while
it's
regarded
as
an
asset
that
we
have
a
leader
in
the
inspector
general's
office
out
of
the
US
Attorney's
Office,
the
the
federal
investigation
system
operates
in
a
they
kind
of
are
able
to
devote
enormous
resources
over
long
periods
of
time
to
get
high-profile
targets
sure.
So
there
are
federal
investigations
that
go
on
for
five
years.
C
We
did
in
order
to
the
sheriff's
office,
and
it
resulted
in
an
indictment
five
years
after
the
report,
whereas
the
DA's
office
and
local
authorities
have
to
do
more
of
a
quick
and
dirty
kind
of
response.
So,
when
you're
dealing
with
large
volumes
of
information,
we
think
we
are
better
able
to
deal
with
that,
and
our
major
target
is
not
to
get
a
prosecution.
It
is
to
identify
something
that
the
city
could
do
better
and
to
change
the
policy.
C
So
as
to
your
specific
question,
John
Thomas
is
engaged
with
your
staff
right
now
and
trying
to
develop
metrics
and
a
system
for
doing
exactly
what
you
suggested
by
identifying
some
of
the
other
major
contractors
and
doing
a
deep
dive,
as
we
did
with
Boch
construction
a
couple
of
years
ago,
which
John
pioneered
to
determine
whether
or
not
they're
being
truthful
in
in
meijer.
Claims
about
minority
contractor
all.
I
Right
and
it
seems
us-
and
we
appreciate
John
and
all
of
his
hard
work
in
I-
want
to
thank
you
specifically
for
working
with
our
office
to
make
these
things
happen,
but
it
becomes
very,
very
frustrating
when
you
see
case
after
case
after
case
where
the
same
thing
happens
over
and
over
again
and
again,
nobody
seems
to
pick
up
the
mantle,
but
you
know
we
look
forward
to
correcting
that
and
to
changing
that.
So
thank
you.
Thank
You,
mr.
chairman
Thank,.
G
Thank
You
mr.
chair
one
follow
up
on
some
questions
that
counseling
Parker
and
also
counseling
Heenan
ass.
Regarding
your
analysis
and
ideas
regarding
a
penchant,
one
that
gets
in
perspective
on
from
your
research
and
analysis,
what
you've
seen
other
jurisdictions,
who've
looked
at
pension
buyout
concepts,
I
know,
there's
an
upcoming
Pennsylvania
employment,
Public,
Employee,
Retirement,
System
conference
or
papers
conference,
and
one
that
gets
in
perspective
on
that
as
well.
If
there's
been
any
conversation
that
you've
seen
in
other
jurisdictions,
either
in
a
Commonwealth
or
other
parts
of
the
country,
well,.
C
The
conversation
is
generally
circled
around
this
idea
about,
should
there
be
defined
benefit
pensions?
Should
there
be
401ks
and
I
think
that
kind
of
misses
the
point,
because
the
401k
doesn't
even
save
any
money
to
the
employer
unless
there's
an
agreement
that
the
employer
is
going
to
contribute
less
than
they're
contributing
to
the
defined
benefit
the
you
know,
we
had
some
nervous
moments
this
year
in
the
stock
market,
but
they
came
back.
C
The
the
management
of
these
pension
funds
by
sophisticated
managers
has
a
much
better
track
record,
both
in
minimizing
losses
and
in
making
the
kind
of
money
that's
going
to
be
necessary
for
us
to
make
it
make
to
pay.
Our
pensioners
then
does
401ks
and
for
and
there's
a
looming
national
scandal
over
that
people
borrow
prodigiously
from
their
401k
problems.
One
of
the
problems
that
we
need
is
people
need
to
almost
be
forced
to
save
for
retirement,
because
it's
like
borrowing
against
your
insurance
policy.
C
But
if
you
borrow
against
your
401k
and
you
retire,
you
are
broke
and
that
doesn't
happen
to
people
under
the
defined
benefit
system.
So
I'm
happy
to
have
the
conversation
take
place
outside
of
what
I
consider
to
be
those
irrelevant.
You
know
all
during
the
last
eight
years,
the
city
debated
this
question
about
whether
they
should
replace
the
city
pension
plan
with
a
401k.
They
finally
developed
a
a
pilot
project
in
the
Sheriff's
Office
Police
Department.
Nobody,
nobody
would
join
it.
C
They
finally
forced
people
into
the
program
at
a
time
when
every
minute
counts
and
every
dollar
counts.
It's
just
that
this
expensive
distraction
to
get
into
that
debate.
So
I'm
happy
now
that
we're
at
least
confronting
the
issue
about
how
we're
going
to
how
we
going
to
pay
for
what
we've
already
committed
to
and
is
there
a
way
that
might
be
beneficial
both
to
the
the
pensioners
into
the
city
to
try
to
reduce
those
liabilities.
G
Have
another
question
I
asked
in
the
next
round,
but
as
I
wrap
up
this
round
one
without
arm
some
question
the
comments
that
counseling
Bass
had
made
regarding
just
the
challenges
we've
seen
in
reference
to
procurement,
especially
in
reference
to
providing
opportunities
for
businesses,
especially
businesses
of
color
in
the
city.
From
my
observation
for
my
years
of
working
in
this
building,
there
really
has
not
been
that
level
of
real
plus
a
stick
approach.
G
There
have
been
the
conversations
and
meetings
and
discussions,
but
not
really
getting
that
level
enforcement
to
the
work
that
your
office
did
especially
working
with
them,
John
Thomas,
nav
regard
regarding
Bach
and
the
department's
process,
so
I'm
curious
what
has
been
the
relationship
between
your
office
and
OEO
and
procurement,
especially
that
comes
to
enforcement
matters.
I.
J
Think
the
relationship
have
been
improving,
especially
as
of
late
and
with
your
new
jack.
Can
you
state
your
name
for
the
record?
Please,
sir?
Sorry,
John
Thomas,
pre-audit,
deputy
controller
relationship
with
oeo
and
the
controllers
office
have
been
improving.
We
operate
independently
in
terms
of
our
enforcement
activities.
We
talk
because
all
contracts
are
taught
that
money
and
a
periodic
function.
J
We
can
trace
the
money,
that's
how
we
we
have
the
power
to
do
what
we
do,
and
so
we
try
to
work
in
conjunction
with
them
and
we
do
when
we
can
and
if
we
find
that
they
are
not
doing
what
they
need
to
do
in
terms
of
monitoring
enforcing
contracts
and
compliance.
We
work
independently
of
them,
but
the
new
commerce
director
has
sort
of
given
yo-yo
a
charge
to
work
in
conjunction
with
us
to
try
to
improve
compliance
monitoring
enforcement
as
Scouts
one
vast
mentioned.
J
She
and
her
staff
and
I
are
talking
about
ways
to
look
at
contracts
on
monitoring
and
enforcement,
but
monitoring
enforcement
is
very
important
because
you
can
have
all
the
rules
and
cities
have
lots
of
rules
related
to
minority
diversity
and
inclusion,
but
its
enforcement
of
those
rules,
that's
important
and
if
you
don't
enforce
them,
it
really
doesn't
mean
anything.
It
makes
nice
paper,
but
it
doesn't
really
mean
anything
and
I.
G
Just
to
conclude
our
I
agree,
it
seems
like
between
your
work
and
the
controls,
work
you're,
much
more
proactive
and
using
that
data
to
bring
about
change
where
it
seems
from
my
observation.
I
do
hope
over
change
its
going
to
change
under
a
direction
of
Commerce,
director,
eps
and
no
nakasen,
but
historically
oeo,
and
before
that
m
beck
is
much
more
reactive
and
just
received
data,
but
doesn't
really
do
anything
with
the
data.
I
agree.
I
K
I
All
right
and
that's
something
that
we
could
talk
about
and
discuss
a
little
bit
further
Phil,
a
core
which
is
something
that
was
listed
in
your
testimony,
that
you
have
done
an
audit
and
I'm
curious
to
know
the
results
of
that
audit
and
what
how
productive
it
is.
This
is
a
program
that
was
is
actually
within
the
city
of
Philadelphia
prisons,
in
which
they
work
to
make
sure
that
they
have
actual
skills
that
they
can
use
to
gain
employment
once
they
leave
the
facility.
So
can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
your
findings?.
C
Yeah
the
findings
near
was
that
the
program
was
a
valuable
program
and
that
operationally
it
worked
very
well,
but
that
there
were
routine
issues
dealing
with
the
handling
of
cash
that
they
needed
help
with,
and
that,
for
example-
and
there
are
issues
that
city
departments
have
routinely
been
criticized
by
us
for
things
like
not
having
the
same
person
do
the
deposits
as
pays
the
bills.
It's
something
to
have
two
people
check
one
on
how
the
money
is
being
handled.
It
there's
a
relatively
small
amount
of
cash
on
hand,
and
there
was
no.
C
C
C
G
You,
mr.
chairman
I'm,
just
one
other
quick
follow-up.
What
has
been
the
performance
before
I
know?
You
do
performance
audits,
vanity
departments,
I'm
curious
about
your
performance
audits,
on
both
oao
procurement
as
well
as
OPA.
We've
had
an
engaged
conversation
in
the
budget
process
about
the
camera
system
and
I'm
curious
about
the
performance
off
with
oddest
you've
done
on
oao
procurement
and
opa,
especially
in
reference
to
the
camera
system.
There.
C
A
Are
you
thank
you
very
much
for
the
work
that
you've
done.
I
have
a
very
simple
follow-up
question
to
councilman
greens,
which
is
very
similarly
I'm
curious
about
whether
you
take
a
look
at
the
capital
budget
for
OIT
and
in
part
because
oh
I,
tease
capital
budget
often
incorporates
big
picture
projects
that
sometimes
have
taken
longer
than
projected
to
come
to
fruition
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
that's
something,
that's
ever
been
a
reviewable
process,
but
they'll
handle
big
issues
like
payroll
and
to
some
extent,
I.
A
C
Em
and
similarly,
we
did
a
review
of
of
the
surveillance
cameras,
so
we've
come
at
oit
from
the
outside,
and
the
response
to
all
of
those
audits
has
been
kind
of
a
depressing
response
in
the
part
of
the
city,
because
the
the
ultimate
point
was
that
they
needed
to
invest
a
lot
more
money
to
do
what
they
thought
they
were
trying
to
do.
Then
they
were
going
to
be
able
to
accomplish
with
those
resources.
C
C
All
through
our
review
of
L
and
I,
every
time
we
pointed
out
that
the
Hanson
system
was
one
that
could
be
rewritten
over
or
one
that
that
had
no
controls
over.
We
were
advised
that
the
that
the
Eclipse
program
would
solve
all
those
problems.
Now
we
hear
that
the
Eclipse
program
is
probably
at
least
a
year
away
from
implementation,
and
it
won't
it
will
not
fit
the
concerts
that
contours
of
what's
needed.
C
It's
the
same
story
over
and
over
again
the
city
basically
hasn't
really
allocated
money
for
major
technological
upgrades,
so
they're
putting
band-aids
on
the
existing
systems.
So
we
could
we
could.
We
could
do
another
detailed
report
that
I
think
would
probably
show
the
same,
but
it's
we
feel
going
going
in
we're
able
to
accomplish
more
in
smaller
bites
over
a
variety
of
departments
than
taking
on
that
hole,
oit
problem
unless
there's
clearly
going
to
be
a
commitment
to
make
a
very
major
investment,
I
guess.