►
Description
Councilman Al Taubenberger (At Large) leads a press conference to announce resolutions to study the feasibility of expanding vertical farming and urban agriculture in Philadelphia as a means of creating jobs, butter vacant warehouses to better use and reducing fresh food deserts.
He is joined by Council colleagues, Pennsylvania Secretary of Agriculture Russell C. Redding and Jack Griffin, vertical farmer for Metropolis Farms of South Philadelphia.
A
A
A
A
A
A
Hey.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
wow.
This
is
loud
good
good
morning
and
thank
you
all
for
coming.
This
is
a
special
day,
I
think
in
Philadelphia
and
we're
having
an
agricultural
initiative
and
something
that's
also
very
close
to
my
heart
and
we're
here
to
discuss
this
and
actually
have
some
leaders
in
the
field.
I
also
want
to
acknowledge
them.
A
Some
special
guests
that
are
here
at
BARC
Maxie's,
the
business
development
person
at
the
pennsylvania
state
university,
AV
lauric
on
public
interest
law
center,
very,
very
delighted
to
have
Pennsylvania
agricultural
secretary
Russel
reading
Matt
Raider
is
here
from
the
Pennsylvania,
horticultural
society
and
I'm
very
delighted
to
have
my
colleagues
here
as
well.
This
means
a
lot
to
me.
A
Council
marks,
quili
councilman,
Derrick
green
senator
Haywood
was
very
I'm
very
delighted
that
we
have
a
state
senator
here:
Councilwoman
Ginn,
councilman,
Cindy
bass,
Council
with
Bobby
Heenan
and
Councilwoman
who's,
also
a
member
of
the
Penn
State
University
caucus
and
that's
what
Dell,
Reynolds
brown
Council
Councilwoman
brown.
Thank
you
and
very,
very
delighted
to
have
our
council
president
tower
Clark
here,
because
this
is
a
big
day
and
I'll.
Tell
you
why
I
mentor
today,
I'm
introducing
today
and
what
I'm
also
very
delighted
co-sponsored
by
every
member
of
Council
to
farming
related
resolutions.
A
The
first
point
for
greater
support
of
vertical
farming,
which
is
on
the
cutting
edge
of
agricultural
production
in
the
United
States.
But
with
the
goal
of
these
hearings
to
establish
the
city
of
Philadelphia
as
one
of
the
world's
prominent
training
centers
for
this
type
of
forming.
The
second
calls
for
the
expansion
of
urban
farming
in
the
city.
It's
very
important
for
families
for
nonprofits,
producing
fresh
vegetables
right
here
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
At
a
professor-
and
you
may
not
know
this
about
me-
but
I
have
a
degree
in
agriculture
by
academic
training,
I.
A
What's
an
agronomist
hieronymus
is
a
soil
science
and
field
crop
manager,
so
I'm
delighted
to
be
here
to
bring
these
initiatives
forward
to
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
and
my
professor
Bergman
one
of
my
AG
professors,
and
also
plant
nutrition
I'm.
The
first
person
to
introduce
me
to
any
form
of
hydroponics
the
most
noble
thing
that
a
human
being
can
do
is
produce
food
for
others
and
that's
what
people
in
agricultural
do
in
the
United.
States
has
long
been
a
leader
in
in
world
agriculture.
A
Vertical
farming
is
something
very
special
indeed
and
I
think
is
a
very
much
fits
like
a
glove
in
Philadelphia.
It
is
a
we're
going
to
have
more
explanation
of
this,
but
plants
that
are
stacked
one
on
top
of
another
in
in
rows
with
artificial
light,
which
is
specifically
engineered
and
in
instead
of
soil,
uses,
hydroponics
and
other
medium
for
them
to
grow,
and
we're
going
to
have
a
little
more
explanation
to
that.
The
hearing
will
bring
this
forward,
but
as
an
agronomist
I'm
very,
very
interested
in
an
acre
of
ground
is
4040
3560
square
feet.
A
We
are
well-positioned
to
become
an
international
training
hub
for
the
for
the
growth
of
this
industry.
The
world's
food
supply-
and
it
was
just
on
WHYY
this
morning-
is
being
strained
to
the
limit,
as
the
world's
population
continues
to
expand.
The
demand
for
new
sources
of
food,
especially
safe,
nutritious
and
sustainable
food
sources
are
important,
free
and
rather
fresh
pesticide-free,
vegetables
and
herbs
are
grown
indoors
right
here
in
inner
cities,
something
that
60
70
80
years
ago
was
not
even
fathom
all
there
in
trays
fact
floor-to-ceiling,
nothing
more.
A
The
nutrient
enriched
water
and
artificial
light
vertical
farming
and
the
expansion
of
urban
farming
are
two
very
viable
answers
to
solving
the
world's
increasingly
desperate
food
shortage.
I'm
strongly
advocating
Philadelphia
cities,
corporate
community
and
other
interest
to
support
this
initiative.
I
think
it's
very,
very
important.
Philadelphia
has
the
infrastructure,
the
land,
the
world-class
institutions
of
higher
learning,
homegrown
expertise
to
expand
urban
farming
and
establish
our
city
as
the
international
training
center
for
vertical
farming.
The
world
will
beat
a
path
to
our
door.
C
B
You'll
all
be
interested
in
this
topic
of
food
and
agriculture
here
in
Philadelphia.
Let
me
first
say
thanks
to
the
the
councilman
for
his
leadership
and
vision
for
bringing
this
issue
of
Agriculture
to
to
the
council
and
using
his
Penn
State
degree
in
horticulture
in
agronomy
run
agronomy,
which
is
that
which
is
the
science
right,
which
is
the
science
degree,
but
obviously
important
to
to
him
an
important
topic
for
Philadelphia
and
a
critical
issue
for
Pennsylvania.
B
As
I
have
said
many
times,
agriculture
has
been
a
critical
part
of
the
past
of
Pennsylvania.
It'll
remain
a
critical
part
of
our
future
as
we
look
at
the
issues
of
both
Pennsylvania
in
this
region,
mid-atlantic
region
and
look
around
the
world,
our
ability
to
produce
food
and
fiber
to
do
that
in
an
economical
way.
B
And
if
you
look
at
what
that
group
did
led
by
Benjamin
Franklin
and
many
other
leaders
at
the
time,
I
would
say
that
that
leadership
continues
today
and
is
absolutely
true
that
for
America
to
grow,
we
must
produce
and
be
productive
with
our
soil
and
farms.
Let
me
mention
urban
agriculture.
We
often
think
of
Agriculture's
the
term
attached
to
the
rural
landscape.
Urban
agriculture
is
not
simply
agriculture
done
in
the
city
context.
Urban
agriculture,
just
like
rural
agriculture,
plays
a
fundamental
role
as
a
primary
economic
and
ecological
driver
for
for
our
communities.
B
It
has
been
this
sort
of
appreciation
for
the
importance
of
food
and
agriculture
that
led
many
of
the
Philadelphia
food
policy
advisory
council.
I
want
to
say
thank
you
to
them,
as
well
as
our
friends
in
the
Pennsylvania
horticultural
society
for
investing
time
and
fought
in
how
do
we
address
the
issues
of
both
food
security
and
food
access
in
Philadelphia
at
the
same
time,
recognizing
it's
an
economic
enterprise?
So
thank
you
to
them.
We
know
that
agriculture
across
the
state
is
a
major
of
major
importance.
B
We
believe
that,
through
the
the
work
of
the
urban
AG
initiative
and
the
two
resolutions
being
introduced
today
help
to
continue
to
grow
that
a
half
a
million
people
in
Pennsylvania
employed
in
the
food
in
agricultural
system,
many
of
those
well
beyond
the
farm
farm
gate.
That
is
what
makes
this
industry
so
unique.
B
But
it's
also
important
to
note
that
this
is
a
food
security
issue
and
believe
very
strongly
that
when
you
have
a
state
like
Pennsylvania
that
13
million
people-
and
we
still
have
over
twelve
percent
of
our
population
who
struggles
with
hunger
every
day-
that
that
is
a
moral
issue-
that
that
is
an
issue
that
every
single
one
of
us
should
be
concerned
about.
We
certainly
want
everybody
here
in
Pennsylvania
to
be
well-fed
and
have
access
to
food
in
this
region.
B
You
know
this
issue
of
hunger
well
and
food
security,
but
we
also
remind
that
you
cannot
have
a
charitable
food
system
without
first
having
a
food
system
is
charitable
and
we
are
building
that
across
the
state
of
Pennsylvania.
So
while
we
see
economic
opportunity
with
farms
and
the
urban
farm
initiative
and
using
our
gardens
and
and
open
spaces
here
is
productive,
open
spaces,
we
also
recognize
that
that
economic
opportunity
has
a
benefit
to
us
of
feeding
both
ourselves
and
our
communities
in
those
who
are
who
are
less
fortunate.
B
So
I
want
to
say
thank
you
for
to
the
councilman
for
helping
us
as
a
society
rediscover
agriculture.
We
are
living
at
a
time
when
more
folks
want
to
know
where
is
the
food
coming
from
and
who
is
feeding
me,
which
is
a
great
question.
I
think
it's
one
of
the
great
developments
of
our
time
is
that
we
actually
have
this
relationship
and
want
to
have
a
relationship
with
the
folks
who
are
feeding
us
three
times
a
day.
I
think
it's
a
great
thing.
B
You've
recognized
that
here
in
Philadelphia,
you've
recognized
that
in
this
resolution,
the
resolutions
and
I
think
that's
going
to
be
a
wonderful
development
for
us
and
we'll
continue
to
continue
the
trend.
So
we
applaud
the
call
to
action.
We
appreciate
the
councilman's
leadership
to
bring
forth
in
an
uplift
these
issues
of
food
and
food
access
and
food
security,
but
also
the
economic
development
opportunities
presented
by
agriculture
here
in
Philadelphia.
So
thank
you.
A
Secretary
reading,
we
thank
you
very
much
for
being
here
and
adding
to
your
comments
to
this
important
initiative.
But
let's
hear
from
a
farmer,
someone
was
actually
growing
these
crops
and
Jack
Griffin
is
here
for
a
metropolitan
farming
and
Jack.
If
you
like
to
say
a
few
words
we'd
love
to
have
you
because
you're
the
man,
that's
really
making
this
starting
and
making
this
happen.
D
D
You
go
okay,
imagine
this
entire
room
was
filled
with
farmers.
Imagine
five
years
from
now
when
we're
growing
our
food
here,
close
to
where
it's
being
consumed
within
an
hour
at
the
imagine,
all
the
people
employed
that
aren't
employed
right
now
in
Philadelphia,
imagine
disabled
veterans
and
ex
offenders
who
can
now
find
jobs
because
there
are
jobs
available
because
we're
not
getting
our
food
most
of
the
year
from
thousands
of
miles
away.
Does
anybody
ever
taste,
the
strawberry
and
winter
and
think
it
kind
of
tastes
like
a
twizzler?
D
It's
because
it
does.
It's
like
a
strawberry,
flavored,
strawberry.
It's
it's
traveled!
So
far
you
know
this
year
will
be
producing
strawberries
locally,
all
winter
long.
You
know
this
is
some
of
our
produce
I'm,
not
a
public
speaker.
So
if
I
love
this
I'm
awful
sorry,
but
you
know
I
didn't
come
to
this
to
the
traditional
route.
You
know
the
other
day.
I
actually
got
the
fun
to
change
my
facebook
status
to
farmer
from
Wall
Street
banker,
so
that
was
a
big
day
for
me
to
be
able
to
do
that
they
felt
pretty
good.
D
I
just
kept
hearing
the
theme
from
Green
Acres
in
my
head.
Over
and
over
again
yeah
I
originally
looked
at
this
a
number
years
ago,
because
a
prominent
Philadelphia
family
brought
it
to
our
firm
and
it
wasn't.
It
wasn't
viable
at
the
time
and
it
bothered
me
it
bothered
me
so
much.
They
started
working
on
it
on
my
own.
You
know,
after
a
number
of
years,
working
with
my
partner,
Lee
wine
grad
right
over
there.
D
We
developed
the
technology
that
what
I
like
to
say
is
it
democratizes
the
technology,
its
inexpensively,
capable
now
to
predict
it
able
to
produce
an
acre
of
food
in
a
very
small
amount
of
space?
Our
objective
is
to
share
this
technology
and
make
it
available.
You
know
we
have
no
intention
to
be
exclusionary
with
it.
You
know
our
goal
is
to
build
what
we
call
flash
farms
relatively
small
100
acres.
D
If
you
consider
100
acres
small,
we
can
grow
100
acres
and
15,000
square
feet.
How
many
warehouses
are
there
in
Philadelphia
that
are
vacant
right
now,
they're
producing
no
money,
hiring
know
people,
you
know
if
you
could
take
36
square
feet
and
turn
it
into
a
net
profit
of
fifteen
hundred
and
thirty-three
dollars
a
month.
How
many
people
would
jump
on
that
opportunity?
That's
what
this
comes
down
to.
It
came
down
to
the
economics
making
it
work
so
that
it
so
that
people
would
put
their
money
into
this
and
people
could
say
gee.
D
You
know
what,
instead
of
opening
another
7,
11
I'm
going
to
open
a
farm
and
I'm
going
to
feed
people.
You
know
along
the
same
lines.
You
start
looking
at
this
as
a
mission
I'm.
My
education
is
in
economics
and
so
I
have
to
go
back
to
1798.
It
was
a
guy
known
as
the
dour
parson.
His
name
was
Thomas
Robert
Malthus
and
he
said
something
that
really
changed
the
world.
In
1789
he
said
that
eventually
the
human
race
would
run
out
of
and
not
having
enough
land
to
feed
itself.
D
We've
kicked
that
down
the
road
now
for
over
200
years,
but,
unlike
in
1798,
we
can
now
touch
people
who
will
face
starvation.
If
we
don't
deal
with
these
issues,
this
isn't
a
joke.
Get
your
kids!
Look
at
your
grandkids
anybody
old
enough
to
remember
OPEC
shortages
in
the
70s.
Unfortunately,
I
am
imagine
that
was
a
food
shortage.
That's
coming!
If
we
don't
figure
this
out,
I'm,
not
saying
that
our
technology
is
the
end-all
and
be-all,
but
it's
a
good
start
for
us
to
build
on
and
move
forward
with.
D
We've
already
funded
the
first
hundred
acre
farm
we're
in
the
process.
We
have
letters
of
agreement
on
the
next
200
acres
in
Philadelphia.
Our
objective
is
to
build
at
least
a
thousand
acres
alone
in
Philadelphia
and
show
not
a
vertical
form,
but
a
sustainable
system
that
works
with
the
community
to
create
the
food
that's
responsive
to
the
community.
Imagine
the
jobs
that
that
creates.
D
Another
interesting
thing
happened
is
we've
gotten
a
lot
of
press
on
this?
Is
we've
gotten
offers
and
requests
to
build
farms
all
over
the
world
I
married
a
girl
from
South
Philadelphia.
If
I
go
to
Moscow
for
two
months,
she's
going
to
stab
me
in
the
heart,
that's
that's
not!
That's!
Not
a
projection!
She's
told
me
she's
going
to
stab
me
in
the
heart,
so
my
motivation
for
building
a
farming
school
in
Philadelphia
is
very
real.
All
right.
D
This
summer
we
decided
that
in
our
first
form
we're
going
to
start
the
first
vertical
farming
school
in
the
world.
We
hope
to
invite
University
help
and
others
to
help
us
with
it.
We
have
delegations
from
as
far
as
Moscow
st.
Petersburg
Kiev,
because
it
is
a
security
issue
for
most
of
the
world.
We
have
Toronto.
We
have
folks
from
Chicago
that
are
interested
in
building
three.
All
these
people
will
come
to
Philadelphia
to
train,
to
learn
how
to
do
this
and
then
take
it
to
the
rest
of
the
world.
D
A
C
Thank
you
Thank
You
councilman
a
good
morning.
Everyone
I,
you
know
what
I'm
like
really
excited
every
four
years.
We
get
sometimes
one
new
council
members,
sometimes
three
four
and
all
these
new
council
members.
They
bring
something
new
to
the
table
and
I
gotta
tell
you
known,
councilman
taubenberger.
For
a
long
time
we
were
staffers
and
he
back
in
the
day
had
no
idea
what
he
was
into.
C
But
when
we
sat
down-
and
we
talked
about
you
know
his
degree-
I
say:
okay,
it's
in
farming
and
then
he
talked
about
hydroponics
and
I'm,
saying
what
are
you
wanting
to
build
votes
or
something
right
here
and
no
idea
what
it
was
already
sitting
down
at
the
shipyard
when
he
got
into
the
specifics
in
the
technology?
This
is
a
really
awesome
activity
and
to
bring
this
to
the
table.
Councilman
former
responsibility
as
being
the
chair
of
the
northeast
chamber.
C
He
was
always
laser
focused
on
creating
job
opportunities
and
creating
businesses,
and
now
he's
going
to
be
in
a
position
to
take
this
to
the
next
level.
Council
I
just
want
to
say
how
excited
we
are
to
be
supportive
of
your
initiative.
We
will
put
first
thing
one
of
those
put
together,
one
of
those
little
slick
brochures-
let's
go
around
here,
yeah
put
you
on
the
front
page
and
you
and
the
farmers
holding
the
produce,
because
I
really
think
that
our
ability
to
repurpose
vacant
land
and
vacant
buildings
is
very
important
to
us.
So
council.
C
I
just
want
to
thank
you
and
thank
all
of
your
individuals
here.
You
have
today
and
secretary.
Thank
you
so
much
sir,
for
your
continued
work
and
making
sure
that
the
citizens
of
Pennsylvania
continue
to
be
able
to
eat
healthy,
fresh
food.
So,
on
behalf
of
council,
we
want
to
thank
all
of
you
and
thank
you
so
much.
My
man.
A
D
D
All
right,
vertical
gardening,
vertical
farming
has
been
around
since
the
gardens
of
babylon.
It's
nothing
new.
All
right.
I
like
to
say
that
what
we've
done
is
essentially
simplify
things,
its
fourth
grade
math
in
first-year
geometry.
Honestly,
it's
there's
nothing
here,
it's
not
accessible.
It
has
been
done.
It's
been
done
for
about
the
past
12
years.
We,
when
I
originally
looked
at
it,
was
to
validate
it,
for
you
know,
investment
of
about
25
million
dollars
and
frankly,
it
wasn't
ready
yet
the
technology.
D
What
we've
done
in
the
last
couple
of
years
is
we
literally
shut
our
doors
and
said
you
know
what
we're
going
to
fix
this
we're
going
to
we're
going
to
address
the
issues
here
are
the
issues
that
they
had
they
had.
Their
electrical
use
was
too
high.
Well
are
electrically
uses
seventy-five
percent
less
than
the
electrical
use
that
others
of
use
we'd
actually
designed
our
own
lights,
which
will
also
be
manufacturing
in
philadelphia
by
the
way
that's
to
be
to
be
announced
in
the
future?
I
guess
I
just
announced
it.
D
You
know
the
water
usage
we've
gotten
the
water
usage
down
to
ninety-eight
percent,
less
water
than
the
water
used
in
a
field.
Okay.
Now,
when
you
look
at
the
water
crisis
that
exist
and
are
going
to
exist
in
the
future,
that's
a
very
big
deal.
Our
water
is
recycled.
We
circled
good,
we
recirculate
it
not
thrown
into
the
not
not
not
thrown
away
either
our
nutrients.
Okay,
you
know
we
have
worked
towards
creating
what
are
called
cultivars
or
varieties
of
plants,
as
you
can
see
that
are
incredibly
healthy.
D
You
know,
we've
also
worked
on
the
business
end
of
this.
You
know,
because
it's
not
enough
to
just
be
good
at
the
farming
you
got
to
have
the
business
head
to
the
can
negotiate
with
the
supermarket.
That
can
say,
look
think
about
it
like
this.
Here's,
the
big
difference,
we're
we're
now
taking
the
best
of
manufacturing
and
the
best
of
Agriculture
and
bringing
them
together
and
being
able
to
go
to
a
supermarket
and
say,
would
you
buy
this
much
production?
D
The
city
of
Philadelphia
has
a
phenomenal
program,
called
the
anchor
program
where
what
they're,
looking
at
and
I've,
been
talking
to
the
Commerce
Department
about
it,
where
they're
looking
to
say,
look
cheesy
want
to
buy
products
that
are
local
products.
Well,
this
is
a
local
product,
the
other
farmers
that
are
here
from
Philadelphia.
They
sell
local
products
as
well
all
right.
So
it's
it's!
It's
a
question
of
awareness,
it's
a
question
of
support
and
it
was
also
a
question
of
getting
the
technology
to
a
point
where
it
was
simple
enough.
D
I
mean
we've
all
seen
the
super
uber
farms
in
Japan
after
the
earthquake.
They
got
really
scared.
They
said
we
had
a
radioactive
fallout.
We
have
to
worry
about
our
soil,
so
they
started.
Building
these
things.
Well,
they're
out
of
control
lab
experiments,
their
cost
to
do
an
acre
of
farming
is
five
hundred
thousand
dollars,
because
you
got
three
ph.ds
out
front.
They
got
people
in
bunny
suits
and
purple
lights,
500,
our
induction
fans,
our
systems
built
on
being
able
to
work
with
equipment
from
Lowe's
and
Home
Depot.
D
The
intent
is
to
make
this
so
the
average
guy
can
do
it
not
to
make
it
that's.
Why
I
call
it
democratizing
the
technology?
There's
no
black
box,
there's
no
widget
that
you
have
to
buy
it's.
It's
it's
a
it's!
It's
intentionally,
simple!
Anybody!
That's
ever
done!
Engineering
knows
it's
harder
to
do
simple
than
it
is
to
do
complex.
So
does
that
help
probably
too
much
I.
D
Haven't
found
one
yet
we
can't
grow
trees
because
we
just
don't
have
the
room.
I
think
there
are
limitations
on
any
technology.
I
think
are
are
are
setting
the
flash
form
size.
The
downside
is
people
will
take
it
to
the
extreme
they'll
start
to
grow
I'm
so
bored
with
the
conversation
of
the
world's
largest
vertical
form,
because
all
you're
doing
is
creating
those
problems.
I'd
rather
have
15
farms
in
Philadelphia
that
engaged
the
community
in
a
network.
The
downside
is
someone
will
do
it
the
wrong
way,
but
that's
why
we're
building
a
school?
That's?
D
It
should,
if
we're
not
well,
but
we
certainly
won't
be
contributing
to
it.
My
partner
is
actually
going
to
be
in
popular
mechanics
next
month
because
of
a
carnivorous
plant
that
he
developed
that
alleviated
our
need
for
pesticides.
We
use
zero
Pat's
called
The
Terminator,
so
you'll
see
it
in
popular
mechanics
next
month.
D
A
certain
route
like
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
grow
ginseng,
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
grow,
I
could
grow
coffee
plants,
but
I
think
the
people
from
Hawaii
would
beat
me
half
to
death.
If
I
tried,
you
know
it's
probably
not
practical.
There
are
certain
crops
that
simply
aren't
practical.
What
we
do
is
we
do
a
business
case
before
we
grow
a
crop.
That's
the
business
part
of
this.
We
have
to
say
well,
gee
can
I
sell
it
is
it?
D
Is
it
worthwhile
I
mean
right
there
you
have
herbs,
you
have
micro
greens
and
you
have
three
different
types
of
lettuce:
we're
growing
strawberries,
we've
grown
carrots,
hiyee
I
have
to
tell
you
I
get
it
I
get
a
request
today
for
something
out.
A
guy
called
me
yesterday.
Can
I
grote
for
drinking
too
sure
no
problem
I
mean
you
know.
There
are
very
few
things
we
can't
grow.
Can
you
grow
them
and
are
they
worth
growing.
D
Soybeans
or
something
that's
all
my
all
my
plate,
I'm
not
no
interest
in
growing
corn,
because
corn
is
an
animal
crop
for
the
most
part
and
a
sucrose.
Crop
I
would
love
to
grope.
I
know,
I
can
grow
potatoes
because
we
created
a
system
specifically
with
the
concept
of
beating
countries
like
third-world
countries
Africa
the
next
time.
There's
a
problem
we
can
grow
a
potato
crop
there.
Soy
becomes
is
something
that
I
definitely
want
to
do
and
there's
really
no
reason
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
grow
it.
C
A
Would
I
would
like
to
answer
your
first
question
and
this
will
really
we
have
to
wrap
this
off?
It's
not
a
problem.
People
want
to
know
what
you're
doing
I'm
going
to
answer
this.
The
first
question
you
asked,
you
know
like
kind
of
why
and
I'm
going
to
answer
it,
not
as
councilman
outs
Hornberger
but
as
the
trained
economist
from
penn
state
university
and
I'm
gonna
and
I
think
you
heard
it
yourself,
but
I'll
just
encapsulate
it,
no
one,
no
one
until
Jack
thought
about
it
thought
this
out
in
entirety.