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From YouTube: Special Committee on Criminal Justice Reform 12-10-2018
Description
The Special Committee on Criminal Justice Reform of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Monday, December 10, 2018 to hear testimony on the following item:
160101 Resolution appointing members to the "Special Committee on Criminal Justice Reform," who will conduct public hearings examining the Philadelphia criminal justice system for the impact of current policies, and offer recommended strategies for reform that are in the best interest of public safety and the public good.
A
Good
afternoon
this
is
a
hearing
which
is
being
called
to
order.
We
are
reconvening
the
Special
Committee
on
criminal
justice
reform,
I'm
recognizing
a
presence
of
a
form
of
this
committee
and
would
are
there
any
opening
comments
from
members
of
the
committee
seeing
none
one
one
squad
flex
with
the
clerk.
Please
read
the
title
of
the
resolution.
A
We've
done
a
lot
of
hearings,
I
think
we're
closing
in
on
maybe
two
dozen,
these
criminal
justice
reforms
here
and
they've
taken
on
various
topics,
including
a
bail
Reform
to
anti
violence
measures.
But
today,
I
think
we
have
turned
the
corner
co-chairs
and
committee
members
and
are
starting
to
be
a
little
more
solution.
Oriented
and
one
such
solution
that
we've
been
able
to
identify
is
community
hubs
and
from
what
I
can
gather
and
I'm
going
to
do.
A
What
they're
going
through
what
circumstances
they
may
be
coming
up
with
with
a
holistic
restorative
justice
point
of
view,
with
the
holistic
reparations
by
way
of
how
they
pay
their
debt
to
society,
but
also,
as
my
young
kids
would
say,
how
you
can
get
your
life
right,
and
here
are
the
resources
to
do
that.
So
I'm
excited
about
this
opportunity
and
with
me
on
the
committee.
A
A
Myself
Kier
Bradford
Gray
is
supposed
to
be
here.
She
won't
have
to
make
her
wear
bill.
Kevin
Bethel
is
not
here,
Julie
wear
farmer
is
here
well,
fado
Ross
is
here,
miss
Richards
is
here,
I
see
Richard
McSorely.
My
good
friend
is
here
in
Larry
crasner
I
mentioned
and
newly
minted
committee
member
justen.
A
D
A
E
You
so
much
councilman
and
good
afternoon.
Everyone
first
I
want
to
thank
the
special
committee
for
exploring
the
opportunity
to
understand.
What's
going
on
in
the
community
and
I
call
it
the
community's
response
to
criminal
justice
reform
early
on
in
my
career
as
a
public
defender,
I
was
going
into
court
trying
to
fight
the
battles
and
trying
to
get
just
outcomes
by
myself
and
I
realize
time
after
time
that
the
decisions
that
were
being
made
weren't
based
on
policies
vote.
E
It
was
based
on
the
level
of
understanding
that
people
had
about
individuals
who
came
from
through
the
system
based
on
the
fact
that
we
didn't
have
a
lot
of
information
to
share
about
the
human
and
where
they
came
from.
So
what
I
see
this,
as
is
criminal
justice
reform
at
its
finest
Colonel
justice
reform,
is
not
just
a
policy,
it's
not
a
legislative
act,
but
it's
a
shared
understanding.
It's
a
practice.
E
It
is
a
true
movement
with
true
intentions
of
the
people
who
say:
I
want
to
have
a
voice
in
the
tolerance
of.
What's
going
on
in
my
community,
I
want
to
have
a
stake
in
what
the
outcomes
are
for.
The
people
that
need
to
come
back
to
my
community
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
decisions
are
based,
in
fact
on
the
person
and
a
human
and
not
a
bias,
understanding
of
who
people
or
who
we
think
people
are
so
I
want
to.
E
E
All
too
often,
we've
been
looking
at
stakeholders,
elected
officials,
policies
and,
of
course,
legislative
acts,
but
we
haven't
paid
attention
on
what's
going
on
in
the
ground
and
what's
going
on
on
the
ground
is
something
remarkable
that
I
can't
wait
for
those
who
are
going
to
step
up
and
give
their
testimony
to
talk
about
the
experiences
they
had
and
the
outcomes
that
they
got.
That
I
will
tell
you
not
even
the
best
lawyer
with
the
best
education,
whether
it's
from
Harvard
Yale,
Duke
or
wherever
could
have
gotten
alone.
E
F
This
there's
just
no
way
for
a
person
to
understand
all
the
things
they
need
to
know
to
help
themselves,
so
the
community
is
involved
in
trying
to
help
people
understand
what
they
need
to
know,
first
and
foremost
in
the
process
when
they
get
an
attorney.
The
attorney
doesn't
know
much
about
the
individual
and
largely
in
part,
because
he
probably
has
a
hell
of
a
schedule
held
a
caseload.
F
But
the
community
knows
who
these
individuals
are.
They
live
among
us.
They
work
among
us
families,
friends
that
come
to
the
hub,
helped
us
to
understand
who
they
are.
So
we
get
a
true
insight
as
to
these
who
these
people
are
and
what
they
where
they
come
from.
So
when
you
talk
about
public
safety,
public
safety
is
important
for
all
of
us,
but
the
community
understands
what
they
need
to
be
safe
as
well
and
I.
Think
that
just
relying
on
the
police,
the
district
attorney
and
the
judge,
the
law
enforcement
gatekeepers.
F
Basically,
you
know
to
see
them
only
as
the
charges
that
are
before
them.
There's
no
balance,
there's
no
balance
in
the
process,
but
now
you
have
communities
stepping
up
willing
to
help
and
assist
with
the
process,
they're,
not
saying
that
we
can
cure
everything
or
that
we
have
all
of
the
answers,
but
we're
saying
that
this
burden
that
you
have
you
know
when
you
put
policies
on
us
in
our
communities
and
tell
us
what
Public
Safety
is
tell
us
what
our
communities
need.
F
F
You
know
you,
you
say
you
name
what
it
is,
what
walk
of
life
a
person
can
come
from
and
they're
there
they're
in
our
hubs,
there
they're
terribly
they're
there
to
participate
and
be
involved
and
to
help
with
the
process,
but,
more
importantly,
it
gives
us
a
chance
to
help
the
individuals
attorney.
It
gives
us
a
chance
to
help
the
district
attorney
understand
who
this
person
is,
and
in
turn
between
the
two
of
them
they
can
help.
The
judge
know
who
this
person
is.
F
How
can
I
help
myself?
My
son,
my
daughter,
is
not
as
bad
as
people
are
saying
they
are
they're,
not
just
what
is
in
front
or
the
charges
that
you
see
about
this
person.
They're
saying
my
son
is
more
than
that.
My
daughter
is
more
than
that
and
we're
saying
let's
explore
that
when
they
come
to
the
hub,
we're
saying:
okay,
tell
us,
let's
see,
let's
see
how
let's
see
where-
and
this
is
information
that
we
can
relay
this-
is
information
that
we'll
painstakingly
put
together.
F
You
know
and
put
it
forward
to
his
attorney
so
that
the
attorney
it
gets
a
better,
a
better
idea.
You
know
and
I
mind
you
an
overworked
attorney.
You
know
an
attorney
that
really
doesn't
have
time.
To
put
all
this
information
together
doesn't
have
time
to
go
out
and
gather
all
of
these
things.
So
in
that
way
the
community
is
saying:
don't
lock
us
out,
you
know,
put
us
into
the
process,
you
know,
use
us
we're
there.
We
can
help.
You
know
when
you
shouldn't
shoulder
this
whole
burden
on
your
own.
F
A
H
G
Members
of
the
Special
Committee
on
criminal
justice
reform
to
Kiara,
Bradford
gray,
I
am
Reverend,
Herod,
Emmanuel
clay,
jr.,
the
pastor
of
the
Mount
Zion
Baptist
Church,
and
the
leader
of
the
metamorphoses
group
we're
also
a
part
of
mothers
in
charge
with
Dorothy
Johnson
Speight
and
Robert
Blair.
We've
been
working
with
our
chief
defender
as
a
part
of
the
hub
and
mothers
in
charge
since
March
and
we've
met
each
Tuesday
roughly
from
5:00
to
8:00
p.m.
G
G
These
are
not
simply
know
your
rights,
but
they've
conducted
numerous
trainings
around
knowing
your
system
or
systems.
So
what
is
the
difference
between
a
preliminary
hearing
versus
a
pre-trial
conference
versus
trial
and
as
a
result
of
that,
the
community
is
now
better
informed
as
to
how
to
get
the
best
outcome
from
the
criminal
justice
system.
G
If
we
can
demonstrate
to
the
individuals
who
have
guns
that
Lady
Justice
is
really
blindfolded
and
we
have
not
poked
holes
in
her
blindfold
that
she
is
really
blindfolded
and
justice
is
a
matter
of
equity,
then,
instead
of
them
using
guns
to
solve
their
beefs
guns
to
solve
their
conflicts.
We
are
convinced,
and
we
are
hearing
that
they
are
finding
credibility
with
the
community
leaders
who
are
working
in
courtrooms
working
in
these
hubs
and
instead
of
solving
their
problems
because
they
distrust
the
system.
G
They're
now
coming
to
us
and
saying
we
need
you
to
help
us
mediate
our
problems.
You
have
credibility
with
us
because
you're
working
with
us
on
our
cases,
you're
helping
us
to
become
better
educated
and
so,
whether
you're,
the
judge
of
the
district
attorney,
the
assistant
district
attorney
the
public
defender,
whether
you
are
the
complainant
or
the
defendant.
One
thing
is
for
sure
we
are
all
a
part
of
this
city.
G
I'll
conclude
with,
in
addition
to
being
at
the
criminal
justice
center
this
morning
for
three
different
cases:
I'll
be
going
to
s
CI
Phoenix,
to
meet
with
individuals
who
are
about
to
be
later
this
week
on
two
different
days:
I'll
be
up
on
State
Road
at
the
five
prisons,
interacting
with
individuals.
Sometime
later
this
week,
I'll
be
meeting
with
teachers
at
a
school
concerning
some
children
who
are
challenged
and
then
I
have
a
meeting
with
several
families
in
their
home
and
what
do
I
see
in
all
of
these
areas?
G
In
all
of
these
rooms,
there
is
a
fundamental
distrust
of
the
system
and
so
ungrateful
and
appreciative
for
your
leadership
for
your
panels.
Leadership
in
saying
to
the
community
that,
with
hubs
like
mothers
in
charge,
the
South
Philly
the
West
Philly
hub
with
this
participatory
defense
movement
that
mainly
maybe
they
can
once
again
have
some
trust
in
us
that
if
they
come
to
us,
Lady
Justice
will
indeed
be
blindfolded
and
they'll
receive
ajust
outcome.
I
Oh
you
know
my
son,
my
loved
one
just
got
arrested
and
I
haven't
heard
nothing
and
we're
able
to
say
okay
that
that's
because
it's
at
this
part,
you
know
your
your
right
now
in
the
arrest
period
before
a
bail
happens
and
they
they
don't
know
that
they
might
have
been
watching
TV
or
just
feeling
like.
Oh
my
gosh,
my
my
child's
getting
you
know
railroaded
or
whatever,
and
and
here
we
are
being
able
to
say
no,
no,
no,
that's
not
what's
happening.
I
There's
a
process
in
this
system
and
just
showing
them
you
try
to
navigate
through
of
the
system
as
well
as
supporting
them,
giving
them
a
hug
because
pain,
shared
is
pain,
lessened
and
that's
what
we
do
at
the
hub
and
try
to
say
all
right.
Let's,
let's
see
you
know
your
loved
one
from
your
perspective,
so
we
can
present
your
loved
one
as
a
whole
person
when
it
comes
to
the
court
proceedings.
What
is
your
loved
one
achieved
and
done
high
school
or
work?
I
You
know
their
work,
their
employment,
so
that
you
know
it's
it's
less
of
a
burden
so
that
the
the
person
can
be
presented
as
a
whole
person
in
the
courtroom
me
being
a
formerly
incarcerated.
Person
knows
how
important
that
is.
I
can
remember
being
more
harshly
judged
because
I
had
no
support
in
the
courtroom
and
I
had
I
had
I
just
didn't
feel.
You
know
that
the
audacity
to
ask
people
to
come
to
court
for
me
because
I
was
guilty
of
the
crime,
so
I
didn't
feel
the
audacity,
but
I
was
more
than
that.
I
I
was
more
than
this
isolated
event.
You
know,
I
had
been
through
a
lot
in
my
life
and
and
I
had
made
poor
choices,
and
it
was
until
I
really
knew
better.
That
I
could
do
better
and
that's
another
thing
that
we
do
for
people
who
are
coming
out
the
gum
you
know
they're
out
on
bail
and
they
come
to
their
arm
hub.
We
try
to
assist
them
with
life
skills
because
we
have
a
lot
of
other
stuff
going
on.
I
J
A
A
F
We
represent
the
entire
community,
we
don't
come
in
thinking
about
guilt,
innocence
or
you
know.
Defense
minded
in
that
particular
sense.
No,
our
goal
is
to
assist
as
a
community
to
find
out.
Like
Val
said
you
know,
to
help
people
understand
the
process
you
know
like
she
said
she
was
a
person
who
was
in
a
system.
F
I
was
also
in
the
system
and
I
know
that
if
I
had
someone
to
come
to
me
and
take
an
interest
in
my
circumstance
and
help
me
understand
what
was
going
on,
I
could
have
made
better
decisions
and
better
choices.
I
would
have
had
a
better
understanding
about
the
system
itself.
I
may
not
have
felt
as
bitter
as
harsh
as
as
isolated
as
alone
as
most
people
do,
but
what
we
do
is
try
to
assist
our
community
to
make
our
communities
better.
You
know
I
said
three
words
in
the
in
the
talk.
F
You
know
that
I
had
you
know
about
people,
safety,
community
safety,
I
mean
safety
and
and
and
communities.
You
know.
So
that's
what
it's
about
for
us.
You
know
people,
public
safety
and
communities.
That's
real!
That's
what
we're
trying
to
do!
We're
trying
to
make
our
communities
safer
so
we're
not
just
taking
a
person
and
walking
them
through
the
system
and
saying
well:
okay,
yeah!
We
helped
you
out,
you
know,
that's
that's
all
there
is
to
it.
F
It's
like
Val
said
Val
mentioned
how
we
have
aftercare
programs
or
initial
programs
to
help
them
changed
their
lifestyle.
Okay,
but
the
city
that
that
that's
happening
all
over
the
city
passed
the
Clay's
organization.
You
know
the
churches
didn't
the
things
that
he
mentioned.
All
of
these
people
who
come
to
these
hubs
are
from
the
community
and
they
are
all
involved
with
different
types
of
programs,
and
they
have
a
lot
of
different
things
going
on.
We
invite
the
people
to
change
their
lives.
F
E
Councilman
is
attempting
to
understand,
is
the
whole
picture
you've
been
involved
in
this,
so
you
really
understand
what
it
is.
From
my
vantage
point:
it's
also
an
empowerment
tool
right,
so
there
are
times
where
our
system
in
there
is
still
that
way,
really
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
differentiation
between
the
people
that
come
through
it
in
the
very
beginning.
So
we
start
to
make
decisions
about
what
should
happen
to
people.
Should
you
get
bail,
should
you
be
detained?
E
Should
you
go
through
this
process
and,
let's
figure
out
on
the
end
as
to
how
we
can
make
you
better,
and
we
call
that
re-entry
and
all
the
while,
while
people
are
sitting
in
jail,
whether
it's
detained
because
they
have
a
detainer
for
probation
or
amount
of
bail,
they
are
becoming
more
desperate
because
they're
losing
what
little
supports
that
they
had
in
the
very
beginning.
These
are
the
same
people
that
are
coming
back
out
to
the
communities
and
that's
one
thing
that
we
have
to
keep
in
mind.
E
A
great
majority
of
the
people
that
come
in
go
back
to
their
communities,
so
are
they
going
to
come
out
support
it
with
knowledge
and
also
an
accountability
to
what
they
need
to
be
for
their
community?
Are
they
gonna
come
out
angry,
frustrated,
desperate
and
without
any
other
supports
that
they
would
have
had
had
we
been
able
to
build
them
up
from
the
very
beginning?
This
doesn't
just
achieve
what
we
call
just
outcomes.
This
also
increases
Public,
Safety,
Public
Safety
is
a
practice.
E
For
instance,
we
did
a
hearing
on
mental
health
in
the
system
and
we
were
told
that
once
someone
comes
in
after
30
days,
their
mental
health
benefits
or
their
public
welfare
benefits
are
cut
off
when
they
get
back
out
if
they
release
on
day
32
they're
coming
out
with
no
access
to
those
mental
health.
So,
let's
write.
G
G
My
responsibility
is
to
report
back
to
the
judge
at
the
end
of
the
week
as
to
how
today
went
how
tomorrow
went
how
the
following
day
went.
So
this
is
an
individual
who
is
not
being
helped
and
is
only
increasing
our
costs.
If
he
is
up
on
State
Road,
he
needs
intervention,
he
needs
services,
and
so
we
able
to
partner
with
that
individual.
He
was
one
of
two
that
was
being
released
today
that
needed
some
mental
health
support
I'm
certified
in
that
area.
G
We
just
had
mental
health
certification,
we've
had
training
for
our
people
and
so
we're
able
to
wrap
around
services
for
individuals
to
help
get
them.
The
support
that
they
need
I
would
also
add
very
quickly.
I
was
up
on
State
Road
last
week,
where
an
individual
met
with
me
and
said,
and
also
with
Robert
Blair
and
said,
gentlemen.
I
need
to
take
responsibility
for
the
poor
decision.
G
I've
made
and
I'm
prepared
to
go
in
front
of
a
judge
and
own
take
ownership
for
my
decisions,
and
so
we
then
connected
that
individual
with
his
public
defender
and
they're
now
in
the
process
of
taking
that
individual
before
a
judge
so
that
he
can
take
responsibilities
for
his
decisions.
Once
the
judge
has
handled
his
matter,
we
will
be
waiting
for
him
at
whatever
point
he
is
released
to
our
chief
defenders
point
so
that
we
can
help
him
with
employment,
etc.
So.
A
F
What
we
found
and
what
I
know
from
personal
experience
is
that
you
also
have
people
who
just
want
to
help.
Okay
and
initially
they
may
not
have
inclinations
of
changing
their
lives.
I
mean
that's
with
anyone.
How
can
you
possibly
know
you
know
whether
or
not
a
person
means
what
they
say
you
know
and
that
they're
actually
going
to
act
on
it?
F
Okay,
so
there's
always
gonna
be
people
who
are
going
to
come
in
and
they
may
have
well-meaning
intentions
and
they
may
wind
up
going
south
or
doing
something
different,
but
for
the
most
part
you
know
we're
not
to
sit
in
judgment
of
that.
Okay,
our
goal
is
to
basically
move
forward
and
try
to
strike
a
chord
with
the
good
in
this
person
and
to
do
what
we
can
do
best
to
try
to
help
them
make
a
change
or
help
them
make
better
decisions
and
better
choices.
F
You
know
one
of
the
things
we
do
is
called
thinking
for
a
change.
You
know
and
it's
a
really
comprehensive
program.
You
know
that
allows
us
to
get
into
the
person's
decision-making
process.
Okay,
so,
but
there
are
always
gonna,
be
people
who,
for
whatever
reason,
makes
decisions
that
are
just
not.
You
know
in
their
best.
A
I
Pixel
Adelphia
Industrial,
Correctional
Center,
a
lot
of
people
come
to
class
just
to
get
off
the
block,
and
after
after
several
classes
of
teaching,
problem-solve
and
cognitive
self
change
and
social
skills,
a
lot
of
people
actually
don't
know
better.
They
actually
think
there's
power
in
the
gun
power
until
you're
able
to
introduce
the
power
of
living
an
honest
way.
You
know
getting
in
touch
with
just
an
ordinary
life,
something
that
seemed
outlandish
to
them
can
actually
become
something
that
they're
like
well.
I
You
know
when
you're
saying
this
is
a
better
quality
of
life
living
an
honest
life
not
running
from
cops,
not
you
know,
making
dishonest
choices
they
and
and
actually
coming
to
terms
but
saying,
but
this
is
a
better
quality
of
life
they
not
having
to
have
two
Mercedes
Benz
at
a
five-bedroom
home.
In
order
to
be
a
success,
we're
in
society,
some
of
some
of
social
media
or
just
magazines.
I
A
E
A
E
E
F
G
G
People
who've
been
so
traumatized
that
their
exterior
message
is
that
I
don't
want
help,
but
I
have
met
those
same
people
who,
when
given
the
opportunity
to
know
their
name
and
hear
their
story,
those
same
people
see
other
people
getting
help,
see
other
people
getting
real
on-the-ground
solutions
and
those
same
people
who
seemingly
didn't
want
help
now
want
help
I'm
bringing
to
court.
This
week,
an
individual
or
judge
assigned
to
me
that
individual
seemingly
didn't
want
the
help
that
the
judge
was
offering
him,
but
with
some
time
he
couldn't
get
to
his
GED
class.
G
That
judge
required
him
to
get
to
his
GED
class
because
of
his
crime.
Because
of
his
record,
he
could
not
get
a
job
to
get
the
money
to
get
this
GED
class
as
soon
as
he
has
now
the
money
to
get
this
GED
class.
The
same
young
man.
It's
now
coming
to
court,
going
this
GED
classes
and
working
on
it.
Getting
a
job.
I
have
met
people
who
are
so
traumatized
that
they've,
given
up
and
seemingly
don't
want
help.
B
B
The
panels
will
talk
a
little
bit
about
more
I
was
supposed
to
be
a
fly
on
the
wall
just
observing,
and
it
was
very,
very
difficult
to
not
want
to
jump
into
the
conversation
and
help
as
well,
because
they
were
coming
at
it
from
so
many
for
an
angles.
Talking
about
what
the
individual
was
passionate
about
about.
B
Recent
positive
life
changes-
and
it
was
just
I-
think
the
process
that
each
hub
engages
in
to
get
to
who
the
individual
is
as
a
human
at
their
core
is
a
very
important
part
of
us
and
part
of
this.
That,
as
the
chief
defender
noted
and
other
folks
have
noted,
has
often
been
missing
from
our
justice
system.
J
J
G
Help
to
court
date,
those
services
by
those
providers,
and
so
we
had
a
young
man
who
was
having
some
challenges
with
his
probation
officer,
and
so
we
accompanied
him
to
the
meeting
with
his
probation
officer
because
they
were
having
trouble
understanding
each
other
and
communicating.
And
so
we
became
sort
of
a
mediator
for
that
meeting.
J
Well,
respect
to
the
prison
social
workers,
we
usually
develop
a
plan
and
sent
to
the
judge.
It's
called
a
Perot
adjustment
summary
in
which
you're,
probably
aware
of
and
in
that
parole
adjustments
summary.
It
doesn't
really
talk
about
those
underlying
issues
that
you
point
out
basically
says
he
worked
and
such
such
a
job.
He
never
got
any
disciplinary
infractions,
etc.
Why
would
you
what
would
you
suggest
to
be
able
to
link
up
with
individual
social
worker
that's
in
charge
of
that
person
on
that
caseload
when.
G
J
G
A
critical
question
because
we
have
the
relationships
with
that
individuals
family
with
their
community
with
their
potential
employer
all
of
those
relationships,
we're
able
to
coordinate
and
make
sure
that
when
the
person
is
released
and
that's
a
part
of
I
I
see
Claire
shop,
Nick
Richards
on
the
panel.
That's
a
part
of
what
we're
doing
with
the
Pennsylvania
prison
society
through
a
mentoring
program
that
the
prison
society
gives
leadership
to
tonight,
I'll
be
going
with
Robert
Blair
and
some
other
men
up
to
sei
Phoenix.
G
And
so
we
spend
an
hour
hour
and
a
half
with
those
inmates
who
are
about
six
months
from
being
paroled
and
there's
a
young
man
who
went
before
the
parole
board
on
Friday
I
went
up
before
he
went
before
the
parole
board
to
meet
with
him
to
talk
with
him
to
coach
him
and
I've
been
in
touch
with
his
mother
in
Nevada.
I've
been
in
touch
with
his
uncle
in
California
and
so
to
your
question.
G
I
If,
if
that's
available
because
like
for
me,
my
family
was
mostly
on
drugs,
I
never
met
my
biological
father,
so
my
my
family
wasn't
some
and
I
always
say
if
you
want
to
stay
away
from
slippery
places.
If
you
don't
want
to
slip,
and
for
me
my
family
was
that
slippery
place,
so
I
literally
had
to
get
a
whole
new
support
system
and
I
did
that,
because
mother's
in
charge
was
actually,
you
know
my
teachers
before
I
worked
for
them,
I've
been
working
with
them
for
the
last
seven
years.
I
They
embraced
me
upon
release
because
my
real
mother
had
died
while
I
was
in
prison
and
my
mom
who
raised
me
as
well
had
died,
so
a
family
support
system,
I
didn't
have
that
was
non-existent
for
me.
So
again
this
that's.
Why
I
feel
like
it's
very
important.
What
you're
saying
support
is
huge.
It's
when
people
feel
alone
that
they
get
so
scared
and
they're.
So
desperate,
like
miss
Bradford
was
talking
about
that.
I
They
they
do
things
that
they
might
not
normally
have
done
had
they
have
not
been
so
desperate,
so
yeah
support
is
huge
and
that's
one
thing
that
we
definitely
do
at
the
hub
and
I
think
people
who
who
chase
is
already
over
still
come
back
just
because
it's
it's
so
there's
so
much
support
there.
You
know,
that's
saying
you
know
people
don't
care
how
much
you
know
until
they
know
how
much
you
care.
Okay
and
that's
that's
the
important
thing.
Yes,.
E
Because
I
think
we're
getting
away
from
the
concept
of
participatory
defence,
because
we
can
talk
about
the
myriad
of
issues
that
people
have,
but
what
does
participatory
defence
do
to
help
us
differentiate
now,
when
we're
talking
about
some
of
the
things
that
we
need
to
do
at
participate
offense,
if
we're
figuring
out
who
does
it
need
to
go
to
prison?
Who
can
be
worked
on
before
that?
E
That's
pre
injury,
and
so,
as
we
talk
about
people
transitioning
out
of
prison,
there
are
a
lot
of
supports
there,
but
there
are
there's
nothing
for
the
people
as
we
reduce
our
prison
population.
There's
nothing.
There
are
gaps
that
people
cannot
see
that
participatory
defense
is
filling,
and
so
that's
as
a
person
inside
this
system
who
understands
the
number
of
gaps
in
the
things
that
are
not
even
available
and
judge.
You
know
you
make
decisions
based
on
what's
presented
to
you,
you
don't
know,
what's
not
presented
to
you,
you
don't
even
know.
E
B
D
D
Read
this
paragraph
in
he
says:
I
am
the
coach
here
of
our
state's
re-entry
Council,
and
we
will
be
pushing
our
legislature
next
month
to
fund
community
based
nonprofits,
who
will
provide
credible
messengers
mentors
to
work
with
individuals,
while
they
are
still
in
prison
to
come
up
with
a
custom.
Reentry
plan
then
meet
them
at
the
gate
on
the
date
of
their
release
and
work
together
to
execute
that
plan.
He
says
it's
not
rocket
science,
it's
social
science,
so
it
is
harder.
So
basically,
it's
similar
or
not
passed
is
down
to
you.
It's
it's!
E
In
in
then
so
they're,
not
just
looking
at
people
who
have
to
go
to
jail
and
be
sentenced,
they're
looking
at
opportunities
on
that
front,
end
pre-entry,
not
re-entry
re-entry.
We
understand
we
have
yet
to
begin
to
understand
what
pre-entry
looks
like
and
what
it
means
to
this
city.
We
can't
just
reduce
populations
and
have
nothing
else
in
place
to
help
people
make
it
to
court,
which
was
the
purpose
of
bail,
but
also
stay
progressive
and
also
participate
in
their
own
defense.
E
By
making
educated
informed
decisions,
you
will
never
be
surprised
and
how
many
people
don't
know
when
they
come
to
a
hearing
that
there's
about
eight
more
they
have
to
come
to
so
they
make
decisions
that
are
contrary
to
what
we
think
are
best
for
public
safety,
because
now
that
puts
you
in
bench,
warrant
status.
Sheriff's
have
to
get
you
all
kinds
of
things
that
happen.
E
Believe
they've
got
found
guilty
and
they
decide
to
bolt
these
decisions
that
people
make
are
because
they
are
of
the
lack
of
information
and
lack
of
transparency
within
our
system,
and
we,
through
these
community
hubs,
are
trying
to
not
just
service
people
but
empower
people,
and
then
they
in
turn
empower
their
own
and
that's
what's
happening
in
your
city.
It
is
the
replication
of
information
to
make
better
decisions
at
the
front
end
from
decision-makers,
but
also
from
the
people
that
come
through
this
system.
E
A
F
Set
up
an
interview
with
that
person
and
we
call
that
an
initial
interview
and
we
establish
what
their
problem
is.
First,
we
asked
who
recommended
them
and
if
we
can
get
that
information
we
always
like
to
keep
track
of
that,
but
then
we'll
ask
them
what
their
issues
are,
what
their
problems
are
and
why
they've
come
and
we're
careful
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
discussion
regarding
the
particulars
of
their
case.
F
We
remind
them
that
this
is
an
open
forum,
that
it's
a
public
forum
and
that
you
know
the
information
that
they
give
us
you
know
is
should
be
the
information
that
they
want
us
to
have.
You
know
regarding
their
particular
case
now
we're
also
responsible
enough
to
understand
that
sometimes
people,
you
know,
may
say
things
that
they
don't
intend
to
say,
or
they
may
say
more
than
they
possibly
should
say.
So
we
give
a
little
cautionary
speech
about
that.
F
Okay,
so
that
people
can
tell
us
just
what
we
need
to
know
in
relationship
to
what
their
issues
and
their
troubles
are
so
and
then
we
take
it
from
there.
We
we
have
them
inside
of
our
hub
and
we
start
to.
Let
them
tell
us
what
their
situation
is.
You
know,
and
this
requires
a
degree
of
trust
from
the
beginning.
You
know
when
a
person
walks
through
that
door,
they
have
to
first.
You
know
that
initial
conversation
that
you
have
with
them.
F
It
has
to
be
a
conversation
that
will,
you
know,
make
them
feel
good
enough
and
comfortable
enough
to
want
to
actually
share.
So
we
try
to
figure
out
who
recommended
them,
and
then
we
after
we
get
that
information.
We,
you
know
we
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
person
that
recommended
them.
All
of
it
is
to
you
know,
to
make
them
feel.
You
know
that
they're
in
a
good
space
and
a
good
place
that
they
can
give
us
this
information,
and
that
will
go
about
trying
to
help
them
understand
next
steps.
So
one.
A
I
Well,
I
think
that's
we
have
a
social
bio
which
is
so
important.
The
social
bio
is
what
presents
you
as
a
whole
person
yeah.
No,
no.
The
social
bio
is
like
what
your
achievements,
where
you
know
school
work
history,
things
of
that
nature.
You
know.
Maybe
you
we
had
people
who
take
care
of
their
mom
dirty.
You
know,
they're,
the
only
ones
that's
able
to
take
care
of
their
mom
they've
been
working
at
a
particular
job
for
seven
years
or
more,
they
graduated
high
school.
They
attended
college.
I
You
know
they
helped
the
neighbor
down
the
street
and
the
neighbor
would
like
to
write
a
letter
on
their
behalf,
saying
that
you
know
they
always
helped
me.
They
were
always
there
for
me,
always
held
the
door
for
me
to
stuff
that
they
might
miss
that
they
might
think.
That's
not
very
important.
We
we
get
them
in
touch
with
that
stuff,
because
some
people
say
you
know
I'm
knocked
up
for
this
crime.
I
got
a
background.
I'm
never
going
to
get
a
job
again,
and
that's
it.
I
That's
the
extreme
thinking
that
they
could
have
until
somebody
says.
No,
that's
not
the
end.
What
else
did
you
do
you're,
24
years
old,
you're,
34
years
old,
you're,
54
years
old?
What
have
you
done
within
these
years
and
we
kind
of
get
them
in
touch
with
with
education,
their
work,
history,
there's
simple
things
that
they
did
and
we
put
that
all
together
in
a
social
bio
for
them
to
give
to
their
lawyer.
A
E
Want
to
thank
you
so
much
for
your
testimony.
We're
gonna
bring
up
panel
2,
which
I
believe
can
answer
some
of
these
questions,
councilman,
because
they
are
actually
people
that
have
gone
through
this
process,
as
people
tried
to
be
helped
and
looking
for
solutions
to
deal
with
what
they
believe
was
and
just
undefeatable
system
Samantha.
Can
you
please
call
the
second
paddle
up,
please
sure.
E
H
H
When
I
made
my
series
of
poor
choices
and
got
myself
in
the
situation,
I
shouldn't
be
in
I
knew
certain
things
that
I
could
do
for
myself
to
change
my
life
and
I
did
the
things
that
I
could
do
as
far
as
going
through
the
court
process.
I
did
not
know
what
I
was
looking
at.
I
didn't
know
what
I
was
doing.
This
carrot
stated
earlier.
You
get
to
the
prelim,
you
think
you're
you're
guilty.
All
you
are.
H
H
Since
that
time-
and
you
don't
know
what
to
do
so,
what
I
did
do
was
that
made
better
choices?
I
asked
to
go
to
a
recovery
program
which
I
did
get
into
I
was
promoted
to
the
house.
Manager.
I
was
doing
all
these
great
things,
reaching
back
out
to
the
community
to
turn
myself
around,
but
now
how
do
I
get
the
judge
to
see
that
and
how
do
I
understand
what
I'm
going
through
by
the
time
I
got
to
the
hub?
I
was
hopeless,
I
didn't
know
what
was
gonna
happen
to
me.
H
H
H
I
know,
I
wanted
to
learn
how
I
could
get
off
that
black
and
white
piece
of
paper,
where
that
judge
only
sees
the
thing
that
I
did
but
sees
me
as
a
whole
person,
a
mother,
a
person,
that's
a
contributor
to
the
community,
a
person
that
has
passions
that
highs
desires.
That
has
dreams-
and
you
know
to
basically
beg
please
don't
put
me
somewhere
where
I
can't
do
these
things,
that
I'm
passionate
about
doing
when
I
got
to
the
hub.
They
started
to
pour
into
me
the
things
they
knew
they
started
to
pour
into
me.
H
The
process
that
I
was
gonna
have
to
go
through.
Now.
Let
me
tell
you
something:
when
you
get
to
a
hub,
they
don't
sit
there
and
pat
you
on
the
fanny
and
say
everything's
gonna
be
alright.
You
don't
do
anything,
you
just
sit
there
and
you
don't
have
to
participate
in
your
in
your
defense
or
your
life.
They
do
not
say
that
they
say
get
your
pen
get
your
paper.
H
Why
did
I
choose
not
to
run
from
the
time
of
the
PSI
to
the
time
I
went
in
front
of
the
judge
and
I'm
gonna
tell
you
the
hub,
because
I
had
strong
members
of
the
community
that
were
willing
to
pour
into
me
that
were
willing
to
encourage
me
that
were
willing
to
empower
me
that
were
willing
to
tell
me.
I
was
more
than
just
the
choice
that
I
made
that
I
had
something
to
give
back,
that
I
had
purpose
and
I
had
no
purpose
when
I
messed
up
a
lost.
H
My
purpose
I
lost
my
will.
I
lost
everything
and
I
thought
everything
is
just
over
for
me
and
with
their
support
with
support
some
mothers
in
charge.
With
the
supports
of
the
people
that
come
around,
the
table,
I
was
able
to
be
transparent
at
times
when
things
got
really
tough
and
tell
them.
This
is
really
tough
for
me,
I'm
going
to
need
some
of
you
guys
for
support
this
week
as
I
go
through
these
things.
H
You
know
standing
up
in
a
packed
courtroom,
full
of
people
just
watching
you
and
only
knowing
what
they
see
on
paper,
and
you
have
to
tell
the
judge
in
your
allocution,
where
your
mistakes
were,
who
you
are
and
where
your
rover
grits
are
in
front
of
a
full
packed
courtroom
without
the
support
I
had
behind
me,
I,
don't
know
that
I
would
have
been
able
to
do
that.
It
was
necessary.
H
My
purpose
is
to
turn
around
in
the
community
in
the
hub
sense
and
in
the
recovery
sense
and
turn
around
and
help
other
people.
No,
no.
This
isn't
the
time
to
give
up.
No,
this
isn't
the
time
to
turn
around.
No,
this
isn't
the
time
to
go
full
throttle
back
into
what
you
were
doing.
This
is
what
you
can
do.
You
could
turn
around
and
you
can
go
this
way.
This
is
where
I've
been.
This
is
why
I
want
to
go.
H
I've
seen
major
change,
and
some
people
around
me
and
my
purpose
now
that
I
want
to
do
is
I
want
to
turn
around
I
want
to
help
as
many
people
as
I
can
not
give
up,
not
turn
around
not
be
so
traumatized
that
they
don't
know
what
to
do
but
show
them
where
help
is
show
them
where
they
can
go
and
be
one
of
those
supports
that
I
had
not
only
in
the
courtroom
but
around
that
table
and
in
life.
Now.
K
L
K
K
These
are
the
social
service
advocates,
the
administrators,
the
investigators
and
attorneys
who
actively
support
and
engage
with
participatory
defense
and
by
the
way
these
are
the
staff
who
could
make
it.
There
are
staff
who
are
now
in
courtrooms
at
home
visits
and
out
in
the
field
who
couldn't
make
it
today.
These
are
the
defenders,
who've
created
systems,
knowledge
and
understanding
in
the
community
through
the
know,
your
systems
and
know
your
rights
trainings.
K
It
is
the
partnerships
of
our
social
workers,
administrators
investigators
and
attorneys,
engaging
in
client
driven
community
centered
defense
that
are
creating
and
finding
solutions
within
the
community
where
we
respect
the
needs.
The
intelligent
and
the
leadership
of
the
community
and
I
represent
only
one
of
many
I'd
like
to
provide
just
a
little
bit
of
background
about
myself.
If
you
asked
me
seven
or
eight
years
ago,
or
if
you
said
to
me
seven
or
eight
years
ago,
that
I
would
be
a
public
defender,
I
would
have
never
believed
you.
K
I
have
spent
the
last
ten
years,
teaching
in
New
York,
City
and
South
Central
Los
Angeles,
public
and
charter
schools,
I
taught
at
the
height
of
stop
and
frisk.
Where
my
students
would
be
late
every
day
or
every
other
day,
because
police
officer
stopped
and
frisked
them
on
their
way
to
school
and
on
their
way
back
home,
I.
Remember
what
a
student
said
to
me
in
a
world
history
class
in
what
was
known
as
the
lowest
performing
high
school
in
New,
York
City,
and
he
said
to
me:
miss
I,
you
don't
get
it!
K
We
get
treated
like
criminals
out
there.
We
get
treated
like
criminals
in
here
and
criminals
will
become
and
there's
nothing
that
you
can
do
in
here
to
stop
that
and
that
broke
something
in
me
that
needed
breaking
quite
frankly,
and
it
fired
up
in
something
in
me
that
I
couldn't
extinguish
and
that
ultimately
set
me
on
the
path
that
is
led
me
before
you
today
and
I
became
a
public
defender,
because
I
thought
that
I
could
change
this
system
from
the
inside.
K
But
little
did
I
know
that
the
change
was
actually
occurring
outside
of
that
system.
In
fact,
right
outside
the
front
doors
and
I
didn't
know
that
until
I
went
to
my
first
participatory
hub
meeting
and
I
realized
that
I
hadn't
been
getting
it
right
and
maybe
we
haven't
been
getting
right,
getting
it
right.
This
criminal
justice
thing
I,
remember
an
eight-year-old
said
to
me
in
class
once
what
criminal
justice
was
to
them
a
conversation
about
causes
and
consequences,
but
we're
no
longer
having
a
conversation.
K
We
talked
to
one
another,
but
we're
not
talking
with
one
another,
and
it
is
all
if
not
primarily,
all
about
consequences
causes
are
being
addressed
by
the
participatory
defense
hub.
So
you
know
who's
getting
it
right.
The
communities
are
getting
it
right,
communities
do
what
they
do
best,
which
is
take
care
of
their
own
and
each
other,
and
they
challenge
their
own.
K
Participants
with
open
cases
can
provide
their
own
solutions.
In
fact,
that
exchange
that
mr.
Rojas
had
today
with
them
about
family
based
therapy
within
the
prisons,
is
the
kind
of
participation
were
asking
for
in
which
stakeholders
and
participants
and
volunteers
engage
one
another
in
a
collaborative
pursuit
of
justice
and
actually
engage
in
real
world
reform
and
ask
the
questions.
Will
this
work
and
I
admire
that,
because
the
answer
that
was
received
was
well?
K
K
Participatory
defense
has
provided
a
plaque
for
actually
a
stage
and
a
mic
for
communities
to
amplify
and
advocate
solutions
that
they
have
been
talking
about
for
decades,
probably
centuries
that
are
right
in
front
of
our
face,
and
we
don't
see
it
because
most
of
us,
like
me,
spend
a
lot
of
our
times
in
the
windowless
empty
courtrooms
asking
ourselves.
How
did
we
get
here
and
how
do
we
get
out
of
here?
K
The
communities
are
talking
about
these
solutions
at
their
local
newsstands
on
their
front
porches,
sidewalks,
barbershops,
Hair,
Salons,
mosques,
churches,
temples,
libraries
parks,
community
groups
and
community
centers,
to
name
a
few.
Only
we're
not
there
participatory
defense
provides
that
outlet
for
us
to
be
transported
to
those
places.
We
can't
go
in
the
courtroom,
the
front
porch,
the
barber
shop,
the
mosque
communities
in
participatory
defense,
quite
frankly,
or
mic,
dropping
solutions
that
are
better
than
our
standard
criminal
justice
response.
K
They
know
how
to
get
it
right
and
they
want
to
help
us
get
there.
Participatory
defense
is
that
platform
that
stage
that
mic
for
communities
to
communicate
with
us.
It's
not
an
accident
that
the
two
words
have
the
same
exact
route.
They
want
to
communicate
with
us
guide
us
and
making
justice
more
just
outcomes
more
fair
and
in
fighting
for
fair
outcomes,
communities,
fight
for
a
fairer
system
and
in
fighting
for
a
fairer
systems,
communities
make
their
neighborhoods
safer.
K
K
Behaviors
is
about
engaging
in
long-term
solutions
if
we
don't
change
the
way
of
thinking
about
the
system
and
who
does
what
with
whom
and
to
whom
and
quite
frankly
how
what
we
may
have
little
business
or
knowledge
to
do
in
the
first
place,
then
you
know
what
nothing's
gonna
change
for
us
either,
because
we're
not
changing
our
people,
our
places
or
things
in
participatory
defense
as
an
opportunity
to
do
that.
I
think
Nicole's
allocution
was
a
testament
to
that
safe
space.
K
That
people
need
to
drill
deep,
to
find
authentic
accountability
and
transform
in
the
act
of
attrition.
And
ultimately,
this
is
what
I
believe
reduces
recidivism
judge
de
Leon.
You
had
read
the
email
from
the
Kings
County
District,
Attorney
and
I'd
written
a
note
to
myself
in
response
and
which
I
thought
of
this
saying,
if
you're
early
you're
on
time
and
if
you're
on
time,
you're
late
and
if
we
are
or
just
addressing
recidivism
upon
release,
we're
on
time
and
we're
too
late.
K
We
have
to
address
it
before
the
handcuffs
even
come
on,
but
especially
when
the
handcuffs
come
on
and
that's
what
participants
are
able
to
do
at
participatory
defense,
hub
meetings,
recidivism
starts
there
in
the
battle
against
recidivist
of
people
and
I
will
quote
the
same
judge
doing
the
two-step
back
into
the
wall
over
and
over
again.
The
way
to
stop
that
cycle
starts
here
as
an
attorney
who
has
worked
as
a
volunteer
and
referred
several
of
my
own
cases
to
the
participatory
defense
hubs.
K
I
can
tell
you
that
communities
I've
seen
want
to
say
and
how
their
communities
can
be
safe.
The
system
as
it
stands
now
dismantles
and
disrupts
not
only
families
but
also
the
communities
in
which
individuals
and
their
families
live
by.
Removing
the
person
from
her
family,
her
community,
we
remove
an
opportunity
for
the
community
to
intervene
with
a
member
of
their
own
to
heal
and
move
forward.
The
system
just
doesn't
touch
that
life,
but
every
life
that
is
connected
to
that
life,
including
the
victims
and
their
families
and
the
community
members.
K
They
find
peace
of
mind
at
the
participatory
defense
hubs.
The
facilitators
and
community
volunteers
are
able
to
interpret
the
lingo
of
the
system
and
walk
a
participant
through
every
stage
of
the
case.
Volunteers,
attend
meetings
with
defense,
counsel,
help
brainstorm
investigation,
write
letters
of
discovery,
10th
court
dates
often
filling
empty
courtrooms.
You
could
imagine
my
shock
when
I
did
my
first
felony
waiver
trial,
and
it
was
just
me
and
my
client
alone
in
a
courtroom.
K
That's
how
their
participants
and
the
families
find
peace
and,
in
the
course
of
this
process
it
takes
investment
in
order
to
find
value
in
oneself
and
that's
what
the
participatory
hub
defence
hubs
do.
They
invest
in
the
individual
in
a
way.
We
just
can't
and
part
of
that
has
to
do
with
volume,
and
part
of
that
has
to
do
with
the
roles
that
we
play
in
that
system,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
we
can't
reach
out
and
collaborate
with
the
participatory
defense
hubs.
K
Community
members,
at
the
mothers
in
charge
hub
helped
one
participant
who
arrived
with
his
case
manager,
one
day
arrested
on
felony
drug
charges,
to
search
for
drug
treatment
options
and
enroll
in
a
program
that
was
sometime
in
the
summer.
He
is
still
in
treatment
now
and
attends
the
hub
meetings.
Every
week
with
his
case
manager,
participatory
defense
hubs
have
been
places
where
people
come
for
safe
surrenders.
K
I
was
there
when
one
defender
client
walked
in
who
discovered
that
he
had
an
arrest
warrant
for
an
aggravated
assault
and
he
had
just
been
released
from
prison
for
three
months.
I
can
tell
you
that
I
could
not
by
myself
persuade
him
to
turn
himself
in,
but
it
was
the
intervention
of
the
community
volunteers
at
the
meeting
who
supported
me
and
intervened
and
where
this
young
man
found
peace
to
go
and
turn
himself
in
having
been
outside
for
only
four
months.
K
K
He
was
dressed
in
a
football
uniform,
leaning
back
against
his
chair,
his
mom
seated
right
next
to
him,
and
his
mom
is
seated
to
my
left.
Zakia
I'll,
never
forget
when
she
first
said
to
the
group.
She
said
they
took
my
father,
but
they're
not
taking
him.
They
can
take
me
but
they're,
not
taking
him.
K
Zakia
is
a
single
mother
of
four
and
three
three
sorry
and
this
mom
described
how
the
heme
had
been
arrested
for
assault,
reckless
endangerment
possessing
an
instrument
of
a
crime
for
a
plastic
toy
gun,
with
a
bright
neon
orange
tip
that
ejects,
tiny,
biodegradable
cotton
or
plastic
orange
balls
sold
for
three
dollars
and
fifty
cents
in
a
plastic
bag
at
any
corner
store
hanging
right
above
the
candy
and
chips.
This
was
the
hims
first
arrest
to
be
honest.
I
was
in
total
disbelief.
I
thought
that
there
was
more
to
the
story.
K
You
could
imagine
the
community
members
response
and
I
sincerely
wish
that
everyone
in
this
room
could
have
been
there
to
hear
that
response
that
outrage
of
asking.
First,
how
did
the
police
officers
arrest
and
mischaracterize
and
second,
how
did
the
DA
prosecute
and
third,
what
are
the
policies
in
place
in
which
they
him
and
his
mother
would
be
a
part
for
the
first
time
in
their
lives?
K
These
are
not
the
kinds
of
conversations
that
we
can
have
at
trial
that
we
can
have
in
courtrooms.
But
these
are
the
conversations
that
we
can
have
with
stakeholders,
especially
prosecutors
with
the
communities
present
outside
of
those
courtrooms,
and
that's
what
the
participatory
defense
hub
members
provide.
Is
that
pulse
before
I
sat
down
I
googled?
What
was
criminal
justice
in
ancient
Egypt,
I'm
Egyptian
in
Ethiopian,
and
the
first
thing
that
came
up
was
that
ancient
Egypt's
laws
were
governed
by
common
sense
and
I.
K
Think
that's
what
the
participatory
to
hub
defense
members
did
in
sahibs
case.
They
brought
the
common
sense,
because
sometimes,
when
we're
so
entrenched,
we
lose
the
sense
of
that.
We
lose
our
own
humanity
and
I'm
guilty
of
that
too.
And
that's
where
the
participatory
hub
defense
comes
in
the
Disciplinary
defense
is
ultimately
a
public
service.
I
believe
is
crucial
as
paved
roads,
affordable
housing,
trash
and
recycling
pickup,
if
not
more.
K
The
community
provides
support
and
solace
and
they
support
they
provide
a
long-term
support
system
and
solution.
You
can't
legislate
that
put
that
in
a
policy
in
a
court
order.
You
can't
mandate
it.
What
we
can
do
is
support
participatory
defense,
help
the
movement
grow
and
flourish.
Let
the
process
change
us
all
of
us,
from
the
police
officer
to
the
accused,
to
the
judge
and
most
of
all
change
the
communities
themselves
and
make
them
safer.
So
what
I'm
asking
you
to
do
with
the
communities
is
quite
simple
to
participate.
M
My
son
is
I,
am
saluting
and
that's
pretty
much
where
I
must
speak
on
I'm
gonna
speak
more
on
the
juvenile
side
of
this
versus
the
dope
side.
Cuz,
we
got
that's
where
my
whole
affiliation
and
dealing
with
this
whole
my
son's
situation.
Worse
bacon
August,
my
son
was
arrested
on
a
Friday
I've
received
a
phone
call
around
8:00,
while
he
was
on
his
bike.
Coming
from
his
baseball
game,
he
was
taken
to
was
held
in
custody.
Well,
he
was
searched
for
a
well
at
week
on
because
someone.
M
Contacted
them
and
said
that
he
had
shot
another
little
boy
with
the
toy
gun.
So
when
a
black
truck
around
8:00
p.m.
they
went
and
picked
my
son
up,
while
he
was
on
his
bike,
they
called
for
a
squad
car.
The
squad
car
took
my
son
to
the
police
station.
First
District
I
received
a
phone
call
saying
they
had
him
in
custody.
I
immediately
went
to
the
police
station
to
find
out
what
was
going
on
I,
kept
being
told
that
he
had
a
BB
gun
which
I
didn't
understand.
M
Cuz
I
know
where
he
got
a
BB
gun
from
Ed
day.
He
had
shot
somebody
with
it
now,
I
never
did
I
think
it
was
my
Louis
never
did
I
think
it
was
evil.
Never
did
I.
Think
that's
what
he
did
in
my
mind.
It
was.
He
played
too
much
he
up
to
you
playing
around
when
done
shy.
Somebody
would
BB
gun.
We
stayed
that
the
police
stations
are
warning.
You
every
question,
I
asked
about
my
son
was,
he
has
to
be
processed.
I
wasn't
allowed
to
see
him.
M
M
They
eventually
told
me
to
go
home
and
that
they
would
call
me-
and
let
me
know
when
I
could
pick
my
son
up
well,
4
a.m.
they
called
me
and
told
me
that
they
was
taking
my
son
to
the
Youth
Study
Centre,
so
my
son
was
seeking
to
do
you.
Study
Center
at
4:00
a.m.
I
received
a
phone
call
once
he
arrived
there
again
now.
You
talked
to
my
son,
I
haven't
talked
to
my
son
now
at
all.
M
In
this
whole
situation,
once
I
ever
arrived
at
the
Youth
Study
Center
that
morning
Saturday
morning
to
sit
with
a
hearing
officer,
they
handed
me
his
charge
sheet.
He
told
me
they
were
keeping
no,
because
only
a
judge
could
release
them
because
he
had
a
gun
so
again,
I'm
thinking
he
hates
something
that
was
major.
M
I'm
asking
my
son:
what's
going
on,
but
they're
we
sitting
together
inside
this
ring,
but
the
hearing
officer,
my
son,
said
I
said
well:
where
did
you
get
it
from?
He
said
from
the
store
and
I
said
what
store
he
said.
The
poppy
store.
I
said
this
was
a
toy,
so
he
said
yeah
he
said,
but
he
said
I
didn't
do
we.
M
It
wasn't
me
he
said
mom,
everybody
ever
and
it
wasn't
me
so
I
left
there
sick,
cuz
I
was
under
no
impression
that
they
was
going
to
keep
my
son
so
I
left
ear
and
from
there
I
contacted
a
family
member
who
contacted
the
hub
who
contacted
the
attorneys,
who
can
take
thee.
So
a
chain
reaction
went
off
once
I
meet
my
first
initial
phone
call
that
my
son
was
being
held
so
that
Monday
morning
the
district
attorney's
office.
Turning
you
dear,
they
got
my
son,
for
least
that
was
Monday.
M
The
following
Monday
was
the
Tuesday
where
to
help
me
and
was
a
mother's
in
charge.
They
called
me
and
said:
we
need
you
to
come
to
me
or
come
here
and
needless
to
say,
when
I
got
there,
I
wasn't
happy
I,
wasn't
it
soothes
about
district
attorneys
or
anything,
then
that
actually
was
my
comment.
I'm
the
by
home,
a
lawyer,
I'm
gonna
get
him
a
lawyer.
We
won't
fight
this.
M
But
his
attorney
that
he
ended
up
with
was
in
the
room
that
day
and
she
started
asking
all
these
questions
and
she
said
you
can
do
what
you
want.
But
these
are
the
questions
you
need
to
ask
that
attorney.
These
are
the
relationships
you
need
to
know
when
y'all
go
in
here.
Do
they
do
they?
Try
juvenile
cases
do?
Do
they
know
anything
about
the
juvenile
system?
M
Do
it's
not
the
same
so
I
said
you
know
what
I'll
come
down
to
your
office
and
have
a
conversation
that
was
about
the
best
thing
we
probably
could
have
did
cuz
the
hub
pushed
it.
They
kept
saying,
go,
go
go
down
here
and
we
got
there
and
we
talked
to
the
attorneys
and
we
talked
to
everybody
now
through
the
process.
M
The
initial
process
in
the
beginning,
I,
was
a
little
frustrated
in
May,
but
if
the
process
came
on
between
the
hub
and
the
defender's
office,
they
ended
up
being
made
with
me
and
that's
what
I
needed
that
allowed
me
to
be
my
son's
mother.
That
allowed
me
to
worry
about
him
and
to
help
him,
because
do
we
a
whole
lot
of
things?
Went
wrong
in
his
case.
A
whole
lot
of
things
went
wrong
in
that
for
house.
M
We
are
being
attacked,
we're
being
bullied.
We
were
being
my
son
was
prosecuted
without
even
seeing
in
the
inside
of
the
courtroom
it's
put
on
an
in-house
detention.
He
he
was
where
he
couldn't
come
outside
at
all.
Unless
he
was
with
me,
I
had
to
get
permission
from
a
judge
for
him
to
go
to
football
and
basketball
practice
I
had
to
he
had
to
get
an
advocate.
M
M
My
son
was
living
under
a
safe
condition,
but
none,
but
nothing
never
happened
in
my
house
where
there
should
have
ever
been
a
question
in
the
hub
showed
up
for
him
when
I
called
and
said
they
want
to
send
somebody
to
my
house,
which
don't
just
affect
my
son.
It
also
affects
my
twelve-year-old
daughter,
because
if
something
was
room,
it
was
one
of
the
factor
and
she
had
nothing
to
do
with
it.
But
the
hub
came
to
my
house:
South
Philly
help
members
showed
up
mother's
in
charge.
Trouble
mother
showed
up.
M
M
M
M
So
in
that
there
was
never
enough
on
one
call,
but
the
district
attorney's
office
one
at
the
prosecute
this
case.
So
how
do
we
give
them
the
faith
thing
if
it
wasn't
for
the
hub
and
the
defender's
office,
we
wouldn't
have
never
been
able
to
fight
as
hard
as
before,
pastor
clay.
He
showed
up
Miss
Dorothy.
She
showed
up
for
every
meeting
for
every
conversation.
M
Chief
defender
showed
up
in
court
for
every
trial
team
and
when
we
speak
of
reform
and
I'm
gonna
try
staying
on
topic
when
we
speak
of
reform,
we
have
to
speak
about
these
children
first,
because
the
children
is
what
grows
up
to
be
adults,
to
not
respect
the
system,
to
numbers,
not
respect
the
police
officers
and
not
respect
authority.
But
when
you
build
in
it,
what
do
you
want
them
to
do
if
you
want
to
reform,
have
to
perform
with
these
children?
M
M
If
you
want
to
help
help,
stop
leaving
these
babies
to
fend
for
themselves
and
expect
everything
to
be
okay,
we
punish
that
no
man
ain't
did
nothing
wrong.
We
felt
dumb,
lady
and
fellas
and
the
things
that
go
on
in
their
building
under
the
name
of
privacy,
because
it's
under
privacy
that
they
can
do
pretty
much
what
they
want
to
do,
because
there
is
no
guidelines
when
it
come
to
these
kids.
M
There
is
no
guidelines
inside
of
their
court
system,
so
it's
pretty
much
just
let's
wing
it
and
we
can
do
what
we
want
to
do
with
them
and
then
y'all
that's
destroying
their
confidence
in
the
system,
and
they
only
have
no
respect
for
it,
but
we
causing
them
not
to
have
no
respect
for
you.
We're
making
them
not
have
respect
for
you.
M
M
I
A
E
Don't
have
any
questions
just
coming,
I
think
what
I
hear
you
all
saying
is
that
these
things
in
Nicole,
you
have
come
through
the
system
before
you
come
through
without
the
help
of
the
hub,
and
you
came
back
so
we're
talking
about
recidivism,
we're
talking
about
knowledge,
information
and
empowerment
that
helps
reduce
recidivism
real
stuff,
not
a
hammer,
because
hammers
don't
alleviate
social
issues.
Hammers
only
make
you
fearful
and
make
you
make
knee-jerk
reactions
and
decisions,
not
saying
that
consequences
aren't
real.
E
But
the
fact
is
is
that
when
you
came
through
the
second
time
you
seem
like
a
different
person,
that's
saying
I'm
not
going
back,
and
if
we're
talking
about
public
safety,
we
got
to
look
at
everything
that
has
happened.
Everything
that
you
guys
have
just
discussed
and
the
fact
that
you
have
built
yourselves
to
empower
your
understanding
of
what
this
system,
what
it
takes
to
really
break
through
this
system
and
you're,
giving
it
to
other
people
I.
E
E
It
is
hardly
a
reentry
program
right
and
Claire
I
think
you
get
it.
This
is
a
way
of
understanding
in
a
way
of
practice
that
should
be
going
on
in
every
system,
because
for
once
it
allows
the
public
to
look
under
the
hood
of
the
criminal
justice
system
and
figure
out
what
to
do
to
make
sure
that
people
aren't
swallowed
up,
making
biased
decisions
and
thirteen-year-olds
aren't
getting
lost
in
the
shuffle.
So
when
they
turn
into
men
that
are
angry
and
have
less
empathy
towards
other
people.
B
Councilman
for
just
a
second,
because
I
have
small
children
that
I
have
to
go.
Take
care
of
in
a
second
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
was
commenting
to
hear
that
the
system,
the
criminal
justice
system
is
so
unbelievably
complex
when
I
first
moved
to
Philadelphia
from
New
York
I
sat
down
with
the
rules
of
Criminal,
Procedure
and
I
mapped
out
the
Philadelphia
criminal
process
and
I
started
with
one
piece
of
legal
paper
and
I
ended
up
having
to
tape
together
about
10
to
map
it
out
and
I
have
a
law
degree.
B
It
is
so
unbelievably
complicated
and
getting
communities
together
to
support
one
another
so
that
individuals
know
how
to
navigate
this
system
and
what
they're
up
against
what
they're
being
processed
through
is
so
key,
and
my
comment
icky
earlier
was
the
fact
that
we
on
this
panel,
we're
sort
of
bopping
around
to
other
parts
of
the
system.
Just
indicates
how
to
us
it's
opaque
and
so
just
care
and
to
you
and
the
team
and
everyone
participating.
This
is
so
needed,
and
just
a
million
thank-yous
from
the
whole
city
I.
J
Just
want
to
briefly
thank
the
panel,
but
I
act
I
actually
wanted
to
say
that
I've
never
seen
a
tree
grow
from
the
top
down.
A
tree
usually
grows
from
the
bottom
up
in
the
community.
Participation
that
you're,
injecting
into
the
whole
debate
about
criminal
justice
reform,
is
so
important
to
this
panel
and
to
the
citizens
of
Philadelphia
the
visitors
that
come
to
our
great
city
of
Philadelphia.
J
One
of
the
things
I
would
ask,
though,
is
that
you
touch
the
hearts
and
minds
of
those
people
in
the
system,
because
the
system
our
system
operates
with
people,
it's
people
who
make
up
a
system,
so
we
have
to
touch
the
minds
and
hearts
I.
Remember
when
I
worked
at
the
philadelphia
prison
system,
there's
to
call
social
honey,
we're
tiny
wipers
and
the
social
workers
used
to
call
the
corrections
officers
babysitters.
How
do
we
touch
the
minds
in
the
hearts
of
those
individuals
to
really
have
humanity?
J
You
can't
legislate
humanity,
but
when
we
had
a
suicide
problem,
we
developed
training
for
suicide.
We
had
a
use-of-force
problem.
We
develop
a
training
for
use
of
force.
How
can
we
develop
a
training
where
we
sensitize
people
to
community
and
engage
communities
and
that's
a
challenge
that
I
think
that
we
we
all
have
together.
N
Hello,
my
name
is
Newport
reader
I'm,
a
volunteer
at
the
King
sesang
hub
and
a
resident
of
West
Philly
and
I'm
gonna.
Keep
my
remarks
really
brief
and
focused
because
you've
heard
from
a
lot
of
great
people
today,
already
I
moved
to
Philly
to
complete
a
pre-med
postback
program
at
Penn
and
have
worked
at
local
health
clinics
in
the
area
I'm
currently
applying
to
medical
schools,
while
I
teach
full
time
as
a
precalculus
instructor
and
special
ed
case
manager
at
a
school
in
North
Philly.
N
Thank
you.
Through
these
responsibilities,
I've
seen
many
systems
and
organizations
that
care
for
people
I
make
the
time
to
volunteer
with
participatory
defense,
because
I've
come
to
see
that
this
model
of
engagement
and
reform
actually
works.
It's
also
a
very
natural
complement
to
the
work
that
I
do
in
education
and
healthcare.
N
The
bottom
line
is
public
safety,
so
let's
support
communities
and
keeping
themselves
safe.
For
example,
supporting
someone
going
through
Criminal
Procedure
is
a
safe,
proactive
and
productive
way
for
the
community
to
contribute
to
public
safety
and
reform
for
both
volunteers
and
participants.
It's
a
way
to
give
and
receive
help
whether
it's
finding
and
maintaining
a
job
while
you're
going
through
this
really
challenging
process
addressing
physical
or
mental
health
issues
or
helping
one
another
make
better
choices
when
the
time
comes.
N
In
this
way,
this
kind
of
front
and
support
right
as
a
contrast
to
the
back
entry
re-entry.
Sorry,
the
back
rack
and
re-entry
kind
of
support
that
you
might
be
more
familiar
with
this
kind
of
front-end
support
that
participatory
defense
offers
also
directly
reduces
recidivism.
The
community
gets
to
play
an
active,
sustainable
role
in
keeping
themselves
safe
and
ensuring
best
outcomes
we're
all
here
today,
because
we
care
about
the
problems
in
the
current
criminal
justice
system.
N
Participatory
defense
is
the
solution
to
these
problems.
It's
part
of
the
reason
that
clinics
in
West
Philly
are
so
eager
to
work
with
us.
We
learn
a
workshop
at
serenity,
safe
haven,
outpatient
clinic
just
a
few
weeks
ago.
It's
just
a
couple
blocks
from
the
Kingston
rec
center,
where
we
meet
and
the
clinic
staff
actually
requested
us
to
that.
We
lead
this
workshop
because
they
saw
immediately
how
much
it
could
help
their
patients.
We're
gonna,
continue
working
with
clinics
in
the
area
and
we'll
be
growing
our
network.
N
These
are
just
some
of
the
personal
experiences
that
I've
had
that
have
shown
me
that
criminal
justice
is
larger
than
a
case-by-case
individual
issue,
we're
a
community.
Our
network
includes
the
attorneys
and
social
workers
who
care
about
these
issues
and
who
know
how
important
it
is
to
understand
criminal
justice
in
the
context
of
the
community
I'm
grateful
that
this
network
now
also
includes
each
of
you
and
thank
you
for
taking
the
time
to
learn
more
about
participatory
defense.
Today,.
B
N
A
L
Good
afternoon,
I
want
to
thank
the
special
committee
for
taking
the
time
to
allow
us
to
have
this
testimony.
My
name
is
Hakeem
Simms
facilitator
at
King,
sesang,
rec,
center,
participatory,
defense
of
and
I'm
an
organizer,
but,
more
importantly,
I'm.
A
caring
community
member
community
for
me
is
an
extension
of
family
I.
Don't
want
to
see
any
of
my
family
go
to
jail.
I've
had
my
own
experience
with
incarceration,
and
so
that's
why
I
am
a
part
of
this
growing
movement
of
the
participatory
defense
hub.
L
L
Another
thing
for
me
is
the
empowerment
part,
like
these
communities
have
like
I,
said
we're
at
the
Kingston
rec
center
there's
so
many
things
that
are
provided
at
that
rec
center
and
we're
a
part
of
that
we're
a
part
of
that
they
embrace
us
rain,
sleet
or
snow
we're
there.
We
want
to
communicate
to
the
community
that
they
when
they
need
the
support,
we're
gonna,
be
there
whether
that's
court
support
we
kind
of
do
therapy
social
work
through
the
assistance
of
some
public
defenders.
L
We
have
attorneys
present
also,
but
I
think
that
it
gets
misconstrued
that
we're
providing
a
service.
It's
a
program
of
support.
Some
people
be
lost
in
a
system
intimidated
by
the
process.
Now
I
went
to
trial
hearing
or
maybe
a
preliminary
hearing
for
mothers.
I
mean
a
son
and
his
mother
was
the
only
one
near
with
a
bunch
of
police.
That's
intimidating
like
so
that
support
like,
and
she
gave
me
a
hug
like
I,
really
felt
that
warm
embrace.
So
people
need
that
that
support
that
courts,
support
and
we're
really
adamant
about
providing
that.
L
But
at
the
here
I
mean
at
the
hubs.
What
it
is
is
strategizing
over
what
it
is
that
can
do
to
be
engaged
and
active
in
your
own
defense.
That's
that's
what
it
is
preemptive
again
measures
for
you
to
be
active
in
your
own
defense
and
whatever
way
that
we
as
a
community
can
support
you
in
that.
That's
what
we
want
to
provide.
L
So
we
need
additional
resources
in
a
relationship.
I
think
it
was
I'm,
not
sure
who,
but
we're
trying
to
leverage
the
relationships
with
like
Philly
cam,
to
do
more
media
around
the
participatory
defense
hub,
I,
myself,
I'm
trying
to
work
with
law
librarian.
So
if
we
needed
research
on
certain
cases,
they
can
provide
that
the
the
probation
and
parole
office
we
need
reform
with
that
also.
L
L
L
Incarceration
destroys
communities,
families
and
communities,
and
that's
what
the
participatory
defense
hug
is:
uplifting:
families
and
communities.
That's
what
it
is
so
I
just
welcome
you
and
any
of
the
resources
and
relationships
that
you
may
have
to
now.
Be
a
part
of
this
be
inclusive
in
this
participatory
defense,
hub
and
community
family.
C
My
mind
immediately
reflects
on
our
city's
mantra
that
we
are
the
City
of
Brotherly,
Love
and
sisterly
affection,
and
that
attitude
permeates
a
lot
of
the
things
we've
done
as
a
city
this
year.
We
are
a
city
that
won
its
first
Superbowl
and
refused
to
commemorate
that
win
with
a
visit
to
the
White
House,
because
we
wanted
to
stand
with
women,
black
and
brown
communities
and
our
immigrant
communities,
and
we
don't
always
believe
that
our
president
does
the
same.
C
So
the
phrase
that
we
are,
the
City
of
Brotherly,
Love
and
sisterly
affection
really
resonates
with
me
when
I
think
of
the
participatory
defense
model,
what
better
way
to
love
a
brother
or
a
sister
than
to
walk
alongside
them
as
they
navigate
the
giant.
That
is
the
criminal
justice
system
and
in
in
that
giant
system.
That
does
not
have
the
time
space
or
capacity
to
love.
People
Philly's,
participatory,
defense
hubs.
C
Do
it
has
the
time
to
recognize
the
individuals
and
the
communities
that
they
make
up
have
been
stripped
down
to
mere
stick
figures
when
they
deserve
to
be
Rembrandt's?
Yes,
participatory
defense
creates
Rembrandt's,
it
cultivates
Rembrandt's
and
those
that
partake
in
this
process
return
to
their
stick-figure
communities
and
cultivate
more
Rembrandt's,
Basquiat
and
more.
C
This
model
has
and
continues
this
tradition
in
South
Philadelphia
and,
as
we
continue
to
walk
alongside
our
participants,
we
continue
to
discover
they're,
very
practical
needs
and
discover
ways
in
which
our
Brotherly,
Love
and
sisterly
affection
can
work
to
support
those
needs.
So
what
I'm
going
to
give
you
here
are
a
few
simple
needs
that
would
help
to
better
support
our
participants
home
in
South,
Philly
and
I
believe
across
the
city.
C
We
want
and
need
the
city
to
know
about
us.
We
can
advertise
on
Facebook
and
hand
out
fliers
which
we
did
in
hot
cocoa,
but
we
also
need
folks
like
yourselves
to
tell
philadelphians
about
us
when
a
constituent
calls
about
a
criminal
justice
issue.
Will
you
invite
them
to
our
hubs?
Could
we
have
a
flier
placed
on
the
city's
website
as
a
resource
we
need
to?
We
need
transportation
for
our
hub
participants
to
travel
to
and
from
our
meetings.
Sometimes
that's,
not
so
simple.
C
We
we
need
to
connect
our
hub
participants
to
housing
and
employment
resources,
so
they
can
show
their
judges
and
prosecutors
that
they
are
working
hard
to
remain
at
home.
I'd
also
like
to
add
that
this
model
is
much
bigger
than
just
getting
people
out
of
jail,
it's
much
bigger
than
that.
It's
about
reallocating
funds
that
can
go
back
into
our
communities
as
per
the
National
Archives.
It
costs
about
thirty
one
thousand
dollars
a
year
to
house
an
inmate
nationally.
The
participatory
defense
model
has
saved
participants
over
four
thousand
years
and
time
served.
C
That
means
that
the
model
I
can
do
simple
math.
That
means
that
the
model
has
saved
local
and
federal
government's
over
12
million
dollars.
That's
a
really
big
deal
and
a
great
example
of
what
staying
in
the
community
can
do
for
all
of
us.
So
as
we
continue
to
express
our
Brotherly
Love
and
sisterly
affection
through
the
participatory
defense
model,
I
invite
you
all
to
participate
as
well.
A
A
E
I
ask
I'm
one
of
the
hub
members
and
I
know
you
talked
about
this
from
a
heartfelt
thing
and
I
really
want
them
to
understand
it.
This
is
a
structured
model
that
is
designed
to
empower
people
to
understand
this
process.
I,
don't
think
anyone
has
walked
us
through
that.
Yet,
when
you
come
in
people,
ask
what
part
of
the
process
are
you
in?
If
someone
comes
in
and
they're
just
gotten
arrested
or
the
level,
what
part
of
the
process
are
you
in
you,
then
they
tell
you
where
they
are.
E
You
educated
on
how
to
look
up
and
access
public
information
so
that
they
know
where
they
are
and
what
stage
they
are
at
in
the
process.
Then
you
go
through
and
you
educate
them
on
each
hearing,
and
so
you
give
them
homework
to
do
as
to
how
they
can
make
each
of
those
hearings
go
better
if
they
have
a
story
to
tell
that
story
will
be
told
and
I
think
the
judge.
You
can
appreciate
that
being
in
a
system
that
is
very
large.
E
That
often
seems
like
system
processing
versus
looking
at
individuals
for
what
they
need
and
what
they
don't
need.
Now
some
people,
you
know
I
know
we
don't
like
jails,
but
there
are
some
people
who
have
demonstrated
that
they
may
need
to
go
to
jail,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
people
that
don't
and
we
can't
make
those
differentiations
based
on
how
things
are
now
and
a
judge
sitting
up
on
the
bench
wants
to
have
the
most
information
to
make
the
best
decision
so
that
they're
not
making
a
person
far
worse
for
when
they
come
back.
E
E
Those
things
don't
make
connections
at
every
stage
of
this
process
and
you
are
providing
those
things
that
help
keep
people
progressive,
help
them
come
before
a
judge
and
say
this
is
who
I
am
Your
Honor
I'm
willing
to
set
my
responsibilities,
but
then
I'm
willing
to
not
to
help
someone
else
not
come
back
because
I'm
not
coming
back.
So
I
just
really
ask
if
someone
could
explain
the
process
that
you
go
through
when
someone
will
come
come
through
those
doors,
not
how
they
feel,
but
the
actual
process.
O
Sure
I'll
take
a
stab
at
that,
so
it's
I
I
think
it's
a
process
of
refining,
that's
so
people
are
coming
in
without
a
lot
of
systems,
knowledge
necessarily
and
what
we
have
at
a
meeting
is
a
little
more
time
than
they
than
they
have
in
a
courtroom.
So
what
we
can
do
is
is
combine
the
sort
of
storytelling
sort
of
processing
they
need
to
do
with
some
very
basic
structure
and
some
pointed
questions
things
like
have.
You
talked
to
your
attorney
yeah.
O
O
We
can
ask
them
to
provide
us
information
that
they're
comfortable
sharing
about
the
specifics
of
their
case.
What
were
they
arrested
for?
What
were
they
charged
with?
These
are
very
practical
questions
that
start
to
lead
us
down
roads
strategically,
and
then
we
can
get
into
more
specific
questions
that
deal
more
with
who
they
are
where
they're
coming
from
after
we
get
some
really
basic
information
out
of
the
way.
O
One
of
the
things
that
guides
us
to
that
process
that
we're
provided
for
by
the
by
the
public
defenders
is
a
great
poster
that,
like
takes
those
hearings,
lays
them
out,
so
we
can
look
not
only
at
like
where
the
person
is
but
look
in
between
the
margins.
What
are
good
things
to
do
good
information
to
provide
good
ways
to
prepare
at
each
stage
of
that
process,
so
very
like
it's
a
very
helpful
resource
for
us
as
volunteers.
Without
a
legal
background,
most
of
us
and.
O
Yeah,
and
actually
in
conjunction
with
that
sort
of
a
back
up
into
that
is,
is
a
training
that
we
all
go
through,
that
the
defenders
association
provides
I,
know
your
systems
training,
that's
sort
of
that's
sort
of
the
lead-in
participatory
defense,
but
it's
also
open
to
the
community
for
anyone
who
is
interested
in
understanding
how
the
process
works,
it's
usually
an
hour
to
two
hour
training
that
takes
that
poster
that
we
have
in
each
of
our
hubs
and
goes
through
it
step-by-step.
What
it
does
for
us
is
it
is.
O
It
gives
people
who
are
volunteering
at
hubs
in
education
I'm
in
a
way
to
talk
about
the
process,
but
it's
also
just
some.
It
does
the
same
thing
for
the
community,
whether
or
not
they
become
involved
in
a
hub
like
so
that's
information.
That
goes
a
couple
different
directions,
but
everyone
has
a
better
understanding
at
the
end
of
how
it
works
and
and
what
they
can
expect.
O
A
Of
all,
let
me
first
thank
you.
Let
me
tell
you
why
care
has
been
trying
to
drive
us
to
a
you
guys.
The
one
thing
in
coming,
all
of
you
have
is
your
passion.
Every
one
of
the
people
who
testified
today
is
serious
about
helping
their
client.
That
is
good,
but
what
what
is
helpful
to
me
is
how
to
be
helpful
to
you.
Yes,
all
right
so
keep
here.
Not
here.
Claire
talked
about
that
seven-page
document
yeah,
it
does
exist,
I
have
seen
it.
It
is
intimidating.
A
These
guys
are
attorneys
and
judges.
I'm,
an
elected
official
who
had
to
look
through
that
and
say
well
wait
a
minute
if
this
happens,
III
possibilities
happen
for
an
individual.
So
when
I
see
those
lines
in
front
of
CJC
and
I
see
them
filing
into
that
series
of
possibilities,
it
is
mind-boggling
to
me
mm-hmm
so
now,
if
what
you
have
done
just
now
has
helped
me
understand
your
role.
Yes,.
O
O
A
A
The
reverse
is
cave
the
fuzz
now
I
have
to
go
visit.
All
of
you
in
your
natural
environment,
of
what
you're
doing
so
I
can
get
a
better
understanding
of
how
you
do
what
it
is
that
you
do,
because,
because
that's
what
my
job
is
from
this
committee
standpoint
is
to
reinterpret
that
to
the
17
deaths.
You
see
right
here,
mm-hmm,
so
that
each
of
us
is
not
an
expert
on
everything.
A
So
some
of
us
have
to
take
a
deeper
dive
into
a
subject
matter
to
be
able
to
be
authentic
in
our
understanding
of
a
issue
and
say:
here's
why
we
need
to
put
money
where
our
mouth
is
and
here's
how
you
financially
there's
some
desk
here.
They
want
to
save
souls,
but
they
pick
them
more.
I,
don't
know
I'm
not
going
to
repeat
the
term.
You
called
it,
but
they're
that
everyone
will
say
it
right.
They
are
truly
in
their
heart,
hugging
the
system
and
then
there's
some
of
my
colleagues.
A
What
they
care
about
is
the
bottom
line.
How
much
money
does
it
cost?
How
much
money
can
we
save,
because
their
sworn
duty
is
to
defend
the
taxpayers
expenditure
so
now,
I
got
to
balance
those
things
to
get
nine
votes
for
any
given
thing,
so
the
more
I
understand
what
it
is
that
you
truly
do.
The
better
I
can
then
interpret
it
to
my
colleagues.
So
what
you
did
today
is
help
me
to
really
get
and
Kier
kept.
Kicking
me
saying
this
is
not
reentry.
This
is
pre-injury.
D
E
They
might
get
no
see.
This
is
why
new
this
is
again
not
so
the
concept
is
not
to
give
legal
advice
is
to
give
process
advice
which
everyone
can
see.
So
there
is
no
attorney-client
privilege
when
they
are
talking
about.
What
can
I
do
to
do
to
move
my
case
or
to
tell
my
story
or
to
talk
to
my
lawyer,
who's,
not
listening
or
to
get
in
front
of
the
judge
and
show
I'm
a
changed
individual.
What
can
I
do?
What
are
my
remedies?
E
D
E
That's
what
that's,
what
Steve
I
think
address,
and
he
said
he
they
stopped
them
from
going
into
the
detail
and
they
keep
them
they're
trained
to
say:
stop,
don't
talk
about
the
facts
and
details.
Let's
just
talk
about
what
questions.
You
should
be
asking
your
lawyer,
what
you
should
bring
things
that
of
that
nature
things
that
people
don't
know
you.
You
know
when
we
get
a
person
that
is
arrested
in
this
process
and
they
have
no
one
to
turn
to.
They
just
show
up,
and
they
say:
okay,
help
me
out.
D
So
this
basically
helps
to
keep
the
cloak
of
innocence
around
the
person.
The
initial
person
that's
arrested.
You
you
try
to
help,
keep
that
cloak
of
innocence,
so
when
you
present
them
to
a
judge,
they're
presented
in
the
best
posture,
the
best
picture
that
that
person
could
be
presented-
they're,
not
just
alone
there.
This
is
where
they
are
the
community.
This
is
what
they've
been
doing
in
their
life,
so
there's
a
possibility.
Person
could
be
found
innocent
based
on.
D
E
Is
not
only
a
possibility,
this
has
actually
been
happening.
Yeah
true,
innocence
has
been
explored
through
more
opportunities
to
partner
with
the
community
myself.
There's
I
can
be
a
skilled
lawyer,
but
I
may
not
get
true
innocence
because
I
don't
understand
the
dynamics
of
that
community
or
what
happened
here,
but
you
said
something
that
was
very
interesting.
You
say
we're
helping
to
keep
the
cloak
of
innocence.
This
is
why
this
is
so
important,
because
people
should
have
the
cloak
of
innocence
until
proven
guilty.
That
is
the
premise
of
our
system.
However,
it
has
always
been.
E
Our
system
is
operate
on
a
backwards
determination.
We
give
cash,
bail
and
people
sit
in
jail
and
then
they're
later
proven
to
be
innocent.
Now
there
are
some
that
either
way
around
we
get
it,
but
the
issue
has
become
how
do
we
separate
and
weed
out
and
make
differentiations?
If
we
don't
know
the
person
in
front
of
us
I
don't
want
to
say
it's
just
because
we
have
a
lot
of
cases,
because
actually
the
public
defender's
office
cases
has
reduced,
but
even
if
I
don't
know
a
person,
I
have
I
can
have
one
case.
E
I'm
not
going
to
know
the
person
as
well
as
their
family,
as
well
as
their
community,
so
I
need
that
information
to
give
to
a
a
reasonable
decision
maker.
Like
yourself
and
judge,
you
know
how
we,
how
this
system
works,
you
come
in
and
it's
a
process
sometimes,
and
it's
often
very
little
time
to
explore
who
people
are,
because
we
just
don't
have
their
tools
they're,
bringing
in
packets
of
information
that
we
can
sift
through
and
give
to
your
honor
they're
bringing
in
videos.
E
So
you
don't
the
read,
you
can
see
it
they're,
bringing
in
new
creative
things
to
help
people
make
unbiased
decisions
and
give
people
what
they
actually
deserve,
not
what
we
want
to
give
them,
because
we
don't
know
anything
else
about
this
person
and
we're
going
to
err
on
the
side
of
caution.
That
is
what
reform
is
using
our
system
for
the
people
that
need
to
be
here
and
letting
the
community
bring
solutions
for
the
people
that
do
not
need
to
be
in
a
prison
cell
for
a
very
long
time.
E
Instead,
they
can
be
in
the
community,
raising
their
children
being
responsible
and
being
connected,
as
well
as
empowering
others.
So
it
is
so
much
it's
very
hard
to
explain
in
this
one
setting,
but
I
will
say
this.
It
is
going
to
help
change
the
trajectory
of
the
decisions
from
arrest
to
sentencing.
If
we
continue
to
allow
communities
to
grow,
be
educated
and
educate,
others
on
things
that
only
were
left
for
us.
D
That
it
states
are
you
on
probation,
which
would
mean
to
me
that
there's
a
reentry
aspect
to
the
to
this
as
well.
So
that's
why
I
say
it's
more
like
the
yin-yang
that
you're
getting
people
at
the
beginning
and
you're
also
getting
the
people
at
the
end
that
you
want
to
up
that
you
want
to
help
at
the
beginning.
That's
if
you
can
stop
everybody
at
the
beginning,
then
of
course
that's
the
best.
D
E
That's
the
more
reactive
portion,
but
when
we
learn
who
people
are,
we
make
better
decisions
about
what
they
need
on
probation
I've
been
an
assistant
where
we've
been
requiring
people
to
get
a
GED
who
can't
repress
their
grade
so
when
they
don't
get
their
GED
because
they
can't
repress
their
grade
they're.
Looking
at
a
probation
violation,
we've
been
doing
things
without
the
knowledge
of
what
people
need,
but
putting
law
and
deal
with
it,
dealing
with
it.
E
On
the
back
end,
when
people
are
on
probation
and
they
mess
up,
you
don't
hear
about
all
the
good
things.
They've
done
you
hear
about
what
they
messed
up
on.
These
hubs
are
providing
more
of
a
picture
for
us
to
go
before
you
and
say:
judge
I
get
that
he
used
drugs
on
this
date
in
this
state,
but
he's
been
on
probation
for
three
years.
Look
what
he's
done
for
two
years
and
seven
months
so.
A
The
Union
judgment
part
our
process.
Well,
here's
what
I
understand
understand
a
person
who,
in
between
events
and
I,
saw
probation
as
well
had
a
30-year
record
of
responsible,
behavior
and
then
had
an
incident
that
triggered
all
that
at
all
that
past
history
and
without
the
narrative
that
you
guys
create
that
30
years
it's
you
violated
and
it's
like
time
never
happened
for
those
thirty
years.
He
was
a
parent
for
those
thirty
years
he
went
to
work
every
day,
those
thirty
years
he
paid
this
and
all
that
is
not
in
that
narrative.
A
J
Yes,
that's
why
I
asked
my
question
earlier
about
your
relationship
with
probation
and
parole,
because
probation
parole
usually
seen
as
punitive
it's
supposed
to
be
a
rehabilitative
tool
for
you
to
be
integrated
to
the
community
and
that's
why
I
had
asked
my
question
because
we
got
to
start
taking
that
putative
away
from
the
probation
because
they
will
lock
you
up
funny
little
thing,
because
it's
seen
as
a
punitive
measure,
not
as
the
method.
That's
going
to
really.
A
A
D
D
You
know
as
the
more
people
you
can
help
at
the
beginning,
the
more
issues
were
going
to
alleviate
as
we
go
down
the
road
I
think
it's
I
think
I'm,
I'm,
glad
that
you
came
here
and
I'm
glad
that
you're
doing
this
type
of
activity
here
in
the
community
and
I
hope
that
City
Council
can
help
on
some
of
these
shortcomings
that
you
might
need
in
order
to
in
order
to,
in
order
to
fully
fully
it
to
fully
implement
this
situation,
because
I
mean
we
need
it.
We.
H
D
We
have
to
stop
people,
we
have
to
help
people
at
the
beginning,
the
more
people
we
help
at
the
beginning,
the
better
we're
going
to
be
because
their
families
will
see
that
they've
been
helped
and
that
might
turn
them
away
from
going
in
the
direction
that
they
might
have
went
in
if
these
people
weren't
getting
help.
So
you
need
something
like
that.
It's
it's
it's
something!
That's
totally
necessary
and
I'm,
just
glad
that
that
you
get
your
so
fired.
You
know
it's
really
enjoy
and
enjoy
hearing
about
this.
A
So
it's
always
a
good
thing
when
the
community
is
involved
with
whatever
is
going
on
in
whatever
scenario,
and
so
I,
like
your
quote:
mister
well
as
most
trees
grow
from
the
bottom
up
as
opposed
to
the
top
down
and
I'm.
That's
that's
my
quota
today.
I
might
take
that
with
me.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
what
you
do
and
taking
the
time
to
explain
it
to
me.