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From YouTube: Ethan Roland: The 8 Forms of Capital
Description
Full description and comments at: http://www.peakprosperity.com/podcast/85573/ethan-roland-8-forms-capital
Building on top of last week's foundational discussion of permaculture, this week's podcast explores how the permaculture approach can be applied to creating value -- aka, capital -- across the full spectrum of our lives.
Chris sits down with Ethan Roland to discuss the "Eight Forms of Capital" framework he and his partners at Appleseed Permaculture have developed.
A
B
To
this
Peak
prosperity,
podcast
I'm,
your
host,
Chris
Martenson,
do
you
ever
wonder
about
resiliency
and
how
to
increase
it
in
your
life?
Of
course,
you
do
you're
one
of
those
people
paying
attention
to
what's
happening
in
the
world
and
at
peak
prosperity.
We
guide
people
towards
four
quick
actions
to
take
right
away,
once
they've
decided
to
do
something.
First,
get
out
of
debt.
Second,
invest
in
your
physical
preparations.
Third,
maybe
buy
a
little
gold
and
have
fourth
excellent
care
taken
of
what
financial
wealth
you
have
left
after
all
of
that,
okay.
B
But
what
do
we
do,
then,
after
those
relatively
shallow
steps,
are
taken?
How
does
one
build
true
resiliency,
given
the
magnitude
of
what's
unfolding?
We
recently
began
using
a
new
model
for
adding
depth
and
structure
to
the
way
we
think
about
building
and
deploying
capital,
and
it
comes
to
us
from
a
couple
of
practitioners
from
the
field
of
permaculture.
Now
what
does
permaculture
have
to
teach
us
about
resiliency?
C
C
So
we
just
began
to
think
about
and
see
what
else.
What
else
were
we
exchanging?
What
else
was
moving
in
between
us
as
we
hosted
courses
as
we
did?
Permaculture
designs:
as
we
work
to
grow
businesses
in
the
world,
it
wasn't
just
money
that
was
flowing.
It
was
also
social
capital.
It
was
the
exchange
of
influence
and
connections
between
people.
It
was
the
growth
of
intellectual
capital,
as
we
learn
new
things,
new
ways
to
design
new
computer
programs
new
solutions.
C
We
grew
our
intellectual
capital
as
we
thought
about
them,
and
then
we
grounded
them
into
actual
felt
experience,
and
so
we
named
that
experiential
capital.
As
we
begin
to
see
these
flow,
we
notice
that
you
know
everybody
really
seems
to
focus
on
financial
capital
as
if
it's
the
only
form,
but
it
turns
out
that
you
know
we
can't
eat
money,
even
gold,
and
so
we
realized
that
actually,
the
the
real
basis
for
life
for
human
survival
and
and
human
thrival
was
actually
living
capital.
C
It
was
the
the
food
we
eat
and
the
water
that
we
drink
and
it's
the
air
that
we
breathe.
That
has
come
from
the
trees
and
the
plants
that
are
all
around
us.
So
this
is
moving.
Capital
is
actually
the
the
foundational
pool
the
real
basis
upon
which
life
on
Earth
depends.
You
know,
living
capital
can
sometimes
be
transformed
and
extracted
and
turned
into
material
capital
and
material
capital
is
totally
important
for
work
in
survival.
C
I'm
sitting
on
a
chair
made
of
material
capital,
my
computer
is
material
capital
when
I'm
working
to
build
a
house
or
an
outdoor
kitchen
I'm
using
wood
and
stone,
and
these
are
also
forms
of
material
capital,
and
so
you
realize
that
financial
capital
is
a
medium
of
exchange,
but
that
also
other
forms
of
exchange
are
happening.
People
were
we're
trading
in
social
capital
in
order
to
have
support,
building
their
material
capital
so
that
they
could
more
effectively
grow
their
living
capital
on
their
land,
and
there
are
other
forms
of.
C
The
external
world
and
the
reality
is
that
each
of
us
have
an
internal
world
as
well,
and
so
the
seventh
form
of
capital
that
was
named
was
actually
spiritual,
capital
and
spiritual
capital.
It
is
something
that
that
individuals
can
grow
and
develop,
and
many
many
people
have
different
experiences
of
spiritual
capital.
Some
people
call
it
faith.
Some
religions
actually
even
have
real
defined
systems
of
spiritual
capital
that
can
be
accumulated
over
one
lifetime
or
over
many
lifetimes,
like
the
concept
of
Karma
and
some
other
people.
C
Some
indigenous
spiritual
traditions
actually
articulate
that
when
humans
are
born
into
the
world,
they're
born
with
a
great
spiritual
debt,
a
spiritual
debt
to
reality
to
everything
that
is
living
and
holy
and
beautiful
around
us,
and
that
people
spend
much
of
their
lives
working
to
to
feed
or
not
ever
really
pay
off.
But
working
towards
sort
of
servicing
that
spiritual
debt
in
the
most
beautiful
way
and
all
of
the
phones
are
named
so
far.
C
Our
our
types
of
capital
that
individuals
can
grow
and
develop
inside
themselves
and
the
last
form
of
capital
that
we
named
and
articulated
is
one
that
can
really
only
be
held
and
grown
by
a
group
of
people
by
a
community,
and
we've
called
that
cultural
capital
and
cultural
capital
is
the
ability
of
a
group
of
people
to
step
into
ceremony
together
to
have
shared
stories
and
myths
and
songs.
And
one
of
the
fascinating
things
we've
realized.
C
Once
all
these
are
laid
out
was
that,
along
with
the
degradation
and
degeneration
of
living
capital
that
we
see
all
over
the
world
currently
as
the
result
of
industrial
agriculture
as
the
result
of
material
and
financial
capital
focused
development.
Is
that
cultural
capital
is
being
eroded
as
well,
so
just
as
we're
losing
species
of
plants
and
animals
at
a
rapid
and
frightening
rate,
we're
also
losing
languages
and
cultures?
C
B
Let
me
start
with
that
last
one:
the
cultural
capital.
You
know
in
an
example
that
the
way
we
translated
that
when
we
were
at
Roe,
was
to
think
through
what
happened
in
response
to
fairly
significant
natural
disasters,
so
Katrina
being
one
example
and
the
earthquake
in
in
Japan
and
2011
being
the
other.
B
What
we'd
noted
was
that
in
New
Orleans,
what
happened
was
that
after
the
disaster
came
people,
there
was
a
lot
of
examples
of
looting,
of
murder,
of
rape,
of
helplessness,
of
people
just
waiting
to
be
to
be
assisted,
and
what
we
took
from
that
was
this
idea
that
there
was
relatively
thin
cultural
capital.
The
culture
didn't
know.
A
B
Respond
and
be
Raziel
within
itself,
and
then
you
look
at
what
happened
in
in
the
earthquake
and
the
resulting
tsunami
in
Japan.
It
was.
It
was
orders
of
magnitude,
worse
and
more
destructive
in
terms
of
deaths
in
terms
of
overall
damage,
and
we
couldn't
find
when
we
searched
any
stories
of
looting.
Any
stories.
A
B
Violence,
and
so
we
took
that
to
be
an
example
of
a
different
culture,
but
with
a
much
a
much
more
resilient
cultural
capital
when
it
comes
to
dealing
with
situations
like
that
and
and-
and
you
know,
part
of
that
I'm
sure
deeply
enmeshed
in
their
culture
through
it
through
a
variety
of
other
means.
But
let's
face
it,
Japan
has
been
dealing
with
these
sorts
of
natural
disasters
for
a
very
long
time.
They
live
in
a
very
let's
say,
active
part
of
the
world
and.
A
B
It's
a
very
old
culture,
so
so
that
to
me
was
an
example
of
like
an
old-growth
forest.
That's
that's
dealt
with
a
variety
of
insults
over
time
kind
of
knows
what
to
do
versus
a
relatively
new
ecosystem,
with
not
a
lot
of
depth
to
it.
That
really,
you
know,
got
its
first
sort
of
learning
moment
and
maybe
the
cultural
capital
is
now
deeper
in
New
Orleans
as
a
result,
but
but
that
was
sort
of
is
that
a
fair
example
way
to
use
them?
I
think.
C
That's
a
fascinating
approach
to
looking
at
it
and
yeah
I.
Think
I.
Think
one
of
the
great
things
about
this
is
that
the
forms
of
capital
is
not
a
model
per
se,
I.
Think
of
it
more
as
a
as
a
framework
and
a
model.
I
think
of
a
model
is
giving
answers
and
you
know
prescribing
certain
things
for
certain
situations
where,
as
a
framework
acts
to
me
like
a
lens
that
we
can
look
through
to
observe
and
understand
and
develop
new
understandings
ourselves.
C
C
Just
like
we
find
new
gardening
techniques
when
we
look
at
the
indigenous
land
management
practices
of
the
people
in
a
certain
place.
If
we
look
back
in
our
own
cultural
paths
in
history,
you'll
find
stories,
you'll
find
songs.
You'll
find
you
know,
base
of
knowledge.
That
can
be
very,
very
useful,
because
a
lot
of
our
ancestors
have
been
through
a
lot
of
tough
things
on
the
way
to
getting
us
to
where
we
are
now.
Oh,
absolutely.
B
And
I
love
that
idea
of
this
being
more
of
a
framework,
I
love
frameworks.
So
thanks
for
that
distinction,
and
one
of
the
ways
that
I've
used
this
framework,
so
here's
how
I
I
think
about
the
eight
forms.
So,
let's
imagine
for
most
people
they
measure
their
resilience
in
their
financial
capital,
right
and
and
I.
Think
that's
fine
of
you
know,
probably
it's
a
work,
ibly
good
model
for
somebody
to
say:
okay,
I
got
my
I
got
my
financial
capital
I'm.
B
Okay,
obviously
they're
points
in
history
where
we
might
say
it
could
become
less
okay,
but
I,
think
everybody
listening.
Everybody
has
experience
and
knows
at
least
one
person
or
maybe
more
in
their
lives,
who
are
very,
very
rich
in
financial
capital,
but
otherwise
poor
they're
not
very
resilient
in
their
lives,
so
they're,
fragile
and
and
and-
and
it
just
goes
to
show
that
no
even
some
people
who
have
literally
more
financial
capital
than
any
one
human
could
ever
really
need
access
to
their
you're,
still
not
happy
with
it.
They
are
not
resilient
with
it.
B
They
may
even
be
you
know
very,
very
much
close
to
the
edge.
Even
with
that,
and
so
funny
capital's
interesting,
what
I
like
is:
is
this
ability
to
swap
between
the
forms
of
capital?
So
for
me,
like
one
of
the
first
things
that
I
started
doing
here
at
my
own
little
corner
of
the
world,
so
I
started
swapping
out
financial
capital
for
for
living
capital,
mm-hmm
and
one
of
the
examples
for
that
is
every
year.
A
C
Yes,
I'm
transforming
that
financial
capital
into
a
form.
That's
not
as
liquid
I
guess
you
would
say,
although
it
might
be
more
liquid,
if
you
think
about
water
and
how
water
is
the
lifeblood
of
living
capital.
But
I
think
that
that
investment
that
I'm
making
is
going
to
have
huge
returns.
You
know
even
beyond
the
current
financial
capital
system,
when
I
plant
chestnut
trees.
These
are
trees
that
can
live
for
200
years,
provide
thousands
of
pounds
of
protein
and
starch
rich
food
per
acre
with
no
fertilizer,
no
inputs.
C
You
don't
even
have
to
buy
the
compost
and,
at
the
same
time,
that
same
tree
that
I
planted
can
be
the
mother
of
a
thousand
more
chestnut
trees.
So
I
think
there's
an
interesting
distinction
here
that
we
could
okay
between
resilience
and
regeneration,
and
the
name
of
the
book
that
Gregory,
Lando
and
I
wrote
is
regenerative
enterprise.
And
it's
really.
C
Perhaps
what
I
usually
put
in
the
middle
is
sustainability
right,
because,
when
I'm
sustaining
it's
true,
I'm
doing
no
harm
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
degenerating
a
system,
I'm
sustaining
and
maintaining
that
system.
But
if
I
just
aim
for
sustainability,
it's
never
quite
enough
because
we
can't
we
can't
just
sustain
what
we
have
going
right
now.
We
can't
sustain
climate
chaos.
We
can't
sustain
Peak
Oil.
This,
isn't
this
isn't
a
place
for
sustaining.
C
We
actually
have
to
step
the
amount
of
sustainability
and
head
into
regeneration
and
that
regeneration
is
actually
growing
and
restoring
the
health
of
the
ecosystems
and
the
cultural
systems
around
us,
and
so,
when
I
think
of
resiliency
I.
Think
of
resiliency,
not
as
a
goal
that
I'm
trying
to
get
to,
but
as
a
baseline,
a
foundation
that
I
have
to
get
to
if
I'm
ever
going
to
get
towards
regeneration
and
restoring
the
damage.
Nikka,
logical
and
cultural
systems
around
us.
Well,.
B
None
of
us
can
know
how
the
future
is
gonna
unfold
and
and
for
me,
what
I
look
at
in
this
framework
is
is
if
I've
got
a
richness
in
my
living
capital,
which
we
discussed,
but
also
can
start
to
help
repair
and
and
tap
back
into
and
rediscover
the
and
deepen
the
cultural
capital.
That's
around.
Obviously,
experiential
capital
is
everything
in
this
story,
because
I
I
actually
don't
know
anything
till
I
try
and
do
it
and
then
I
find
out
just
how
much
I
don't
know
about.
B
B
C
B
There's
some
new
world
coming,
it's
a
little
bit
frightening
when
you
start
adding
up
some
of
the
things
you've
touched
on:
Peak
Oil,
climate
chaos,
species
loss,
things
like
that
and
without
really
knowing
how
to
it
to
control
those
things
which
we
honestly
can't
and
on
some
levels.
This
gives
a
this
framework
gives
an
idea
of
places
to
really
start
and
if
you're,
already
rich
in
one
of
these
find
one
that
you're
not
rich
in
and
and
go
there
and
do
something,
and
so
for
many
people.
B
C
I
think
it's
interesting
I'm,
actually
thinking
about
I'm,
seeing
that
same
continuum
that
I
laid
out
from
degeneration
to
regeneration,
yeah
and
I.
Think
an
important
point
to
make
here
is
that
all
of
us
are
on
that
continuum
in
each
of
our
forms
of
capital
at
any
given
point
and
there's
no
there's
no
point
where
I'm
done
developing
living
capital
just
as
there's
no
way
currently
you
could
be.
C
You
might
want
to
be
done,
developing
your
financial
capital,
it's
a
it's
a
continuum
and
we
want
to
engage
not
just
in
a
check
off
all
the
things
on
this
list
and
I'm
done
now.
I'm
resilient
I
actually
need
to
see
that
there's
a
longer
term
developmental
pathway
for
growing,
like
you
said
your
internal
spiritual
capital
and
and
everything
that
goes
inside
of
that.
So
you
know
it's
not
like
single
steps.
This
is
a
whole.
C
This
is
a
whole
pathway
and
I
think
more
important
than
making
any
individual
choice
is
to
actually
commit
to
a
longer-term
process
wherein
I
continually
take
a
look
at
the
eight
forms
of
capital
and
how
they're
living
in
my
life
right
now
see.
Just
like
you
say,
Chris,
which
ones
are
weak
right
now,
which
ones
could
I
develop,
more
of
which
ones
do
I
have
an
abundance
of
that
I
might
share
in
order
to
support
other
people
to
shore
up
their
weaknesses
and
I.
C
Think
that
really
heads
to
some
of
the
key
of
this
book
regenerative
enterprise,
which
notices
that
it's
actually
quite
hard
in
the
current
society,
to
develop
all
eight
forms
of
capital
as
a
single
individual
or
even
as
a
business
as
an
enterprise,
and
so
you
know,
because
we're
based
in
permaculture,
design
and
permaculture
is
based
in
mimicking
ecosystems
and
understanding
how
ecosystems
work,
whether
I'm
designing
a
farm
or
a
homestead
or
a
financial
portfolio.
I
want
to
think
about.
How
do
I
mimic
the
ecosystem
that
I
live
in?
C
That's
around
me
in
order
to
make
this
more
resilient,
and
so
we
realize
is
that
financial
capital
and
any
individual
form
of
capital.
It's
hard,
develop
it
on
your
own,
and
what
you
can
do
is
you
can
work
with
a
group
of
people
and/or,
a
group
of
different
businesses
and
you
can
consciously
design
not
just
individual
enterprises
but
whole
enterprise.
Ecology's
or
Enterprise
ecosystems,
and
in
that
you
can
say
that
you
know
each
person
or
each
enterprise
might
specialize
or
optimize
in
developing
one
form
of
capital
and
share
that
with
the
rest
of
the
system.
C
Not
everybody
has
to
be
really
good
to
grow
all
the
different
forms,
but
if
you
can
get
together
and
think
about
how
you
can
functionally
interconnect
and
support
each
other,
then
there's
not
as
much
of
a
burden
on
each
individual
person
so
that
capital
can
be
grown
and
shared
amongst
the
whole
system,
thereby
creating
a
web
that
is
way
more
resilient
than
any
individual
person
or
enterprise.
Well,.
A
B
That
that,
if
you
had
a
group
that
you've
formed
with-
and
there
were
eight
people
in
it
and
each
person
was
holding
one
of
these
one
of
these
pieces,
one
of
the
things
that
that
I
know
I
love
doing
as
a
human
is
going
out
and
gathering
good
information.
Maybe
I'd
be
the
intellectual
capital
guy
and.
C
B
It
and
I'd
love
to
bring
it
back
to
my
group,
and
the
group
would
know
I'd
be
holding
that
that
space
I
could
be
that
guy,
and
maybe
we
could
swap
roles
as
time
goes
on.
But
but
it
seems
like
a
good
organizing
principle
to
say
if
you're
gonna
have
a
really
effective
group
of
eight
as
a
minimum
or
a
larger
community,
you
would
have
people
holding
these
roles
and
at
least
in
some
for
some
period
of
time,
but
that
you
wouldn't
ever
have
like
a
complete
hole
in
your
social
capital
side
of
things.
C
Know
I
think
that's
I,
think
that's
really
right
on
and
I'm
going
to
develop
this
in
my
life,
through
both
you
know
my
personal
life
and
where
I'm
living
and
who
I'm
engaging
with,
but
also
in
the
business
world,
we're
having
more
and
more
success,
actually
bringing
this
concept
out
to
larger
organizations
and
corporations
and
having
them
start
to
think
about.
You
know
very
entire
working.
C
But
we
only
do
that
a
hundred
miles
from
home,
because
it's
too
far
to
go
otherwise
and
actually
that
ecosystem
is
growing.
We've
begun
the
process
of
franchising
apple
seeds
so
that
there
can
be
this
little
happening.
Permaculture
design
firms
all
over
the
world
doing
the
same
work.
You
know
you
know
a
relatively
local
radius
along
with
that
in
order
to
train
and
support,
especially
the
agricultural
side
of
przemek
culture
and
regenerative
design.
C
You
know
one
on
one:
developing
is
really
excellent:
sustainable
farms
and-
and
you
know,
the
business
modeling
and
profit
analysis
that
goes
along
with
these
permaculture
farms,
but
that
a
real
leverage
point
would
be
to
go
beyond
that
and
start
working
with
larger
and
larger
flows
of
financial
capital.
And
so,
in
order
to
do
that,
my
colleague
Gregory
man,
you
and
I,
who
general
Enterprise
together
we've
begun
consulting
with
international
corporations,
especially
to
help
them
look
at
their
whole
supply
chain.
C
So
you
can
see
that,
with
all
these
different
pieces
together,
there's
so
much
opportunity
for
the
connection
and
flow
of
multiple
forms
of
capital,
and
that's
that's
really.
What
we
made
for
regeneration
is.
We
need
flow
in
all
these
different
forms
of
capital
and
the
constant
growth
and
development,
and
you
know
adding
the
quality
of
these
different
forms
of
capital
all
around
the
world.
Ethan.
B
A
B
C
Think
probably
the
key
one
that
we've
spoken
to
a
little
bit
is
we
call
a
tour
educate
yourself
and
that
basically
says
whatever
form
of
capital.
You're
really
functional
and
skilled,
with
right
now
go
get
educated
in
a
different
realm.
So
if
you're
already
a
financial
manager-
and
you
know
everything
about
those
stock
markets
and
the
bond
markets
and
mutual
funds
in
these
and
how
everything
works
there-
that's
great
and
now
would
be
a
great
time
to
go
and
get
nature
connected
to
go.
C
Realm
useful
for
you
potentially
to
go
out
there
and
take
a
small
business
course
go,
get
an
MBA
on
try
out
investing
as
best
you
can
and
get
some
mentoring
and
support
around
that
because,
as
we
as
we
kind
of
jump
across
the
line
and
start
to
connect
with
another
realm
of
capital
that
we
haven't
really
worked
with.
All
these
connections
start
to
appear
so
I
think
that
that's
really
the
the
most
important
step
to
start
is
in
educating
yourself.
B
Across
these
different
forums,
right
I,
don't
you
know
and
our
measuring
stick
in
many
cases,
our
dollars
and
and
so
often
you
know,
people
come
with
that
framework-
pretty
well
steeped
in
it.
But
it's
interesting
to
be
able
to
broaden
that
conversation
out
and
really
articulate
that
there
is.
There
are
lots
of
so
for
me,
I,
don't
know
how
to
articulate
like
the
value
of
the
living
capital.
B
And
and
what
the
weather
is
doing
this
year
and
all
of
that
so
for
me,
there's
a
ineluctable
quality
to
that
I.
Just
love
that,
but
for
people
who
are
who
are
you
know,
I
think
our
society,
the
one
I
live
in
the
culture
I
live
in
here
in
the
United
States,
really
really
highly
values:
financial
capital.
You.
C
B
Gotta
get
it
and
it's
very
linear,
and
it's
all
of
that,
and
and
so
many
of
these
other
forms
of
capital
or
are
this
is
not.
This
is
not
a
gender
I'm
using
these
words
probably
too
carefully
in
the
way
I
understand
them,
but
but
nature
is
about
flown,
it's
about
form
and
formlessness
and
all
of
these
other
pieces,
and
so
there's
a
sense
here
to
that
that
this
framework
gives
the
opportunity
to
begin
to
value
things
that,
in
my.
C
There
is
the
permaculture
principle
of
start
small
and
build
from
success
and,
to
you
know
focusing
on
whatever
that
form
of
capital
is
that
you're
really
working
well
with
and
grow
outwards
from
there
and
I
guess:
I
guess
a
fast
track.
If
anyone
wants
to
know
the
the
fast
difficult
track
to
you
know,
rocketing
forward,
or
rather
I
should
say
to
sprouting
very
quickly
out
of
the
ground
into
more
complex
and
healthy
multi
capital
profits
is
I
believe
to
become
an
entrepreneur.
It's
super
hard
and
you'll
end
up
with
a
lot
more
mistakes.
C
Hopefully,
you'll
end
up
with
a
lot
more
mistakes
faster
and
faster
and
faster,
because
if
you
fail
faster,
you'll
grow,
faster
and
so
much
of
what
we
think
about
and
talk
about
with
internal
culture.
Resiliency,
doesn't
you
can't
go
get
a
job
in
it
right?
There's,
not
there's
not
a
lot
out
there.
Where
you
can
just
go,
you
know,
go
find
full
employment.
You
can't
just
go
out
there
and
find
a
job
that
is
in
regenerating
multiple
forms
of
capital,
and
so
what
that
means
to
me
is
you're.
B
I'm
so
glad
to
hear
you
say
this,
because
the
one
thing
that
I'm
advising
my
kids
to
do
is
to
become
an
entrepreneur,
and
this
really
came
after
Adam
and
I
spent
some
time
with
Robert
Kiyosaki's
organization
just
a
weekend,
but
but
he
really
impressed
on
me
that
this
idea
that
there
are
a
number
of
things
that
entrepreneurship
really
does
bring
to
the
table.
You
mentioned
one
of
them,
which
is
you
get
the
opportunity
to
fail
and
fail
fast.
It's
not
about
failing,
but
it's
about
failing,
fast
and
learning
from
that.
B
You
know
you'd
much
rather
figure
out
that
a
partnership
isn't
working
in
a
month,
then
drag
it
out
for
five
years
and
then
finally
have
to
cut
a
much
more
complicated
cord.
And
likewise
you
know
the
the
key
thing
that
I
think
an
an
entrepreneur
does.
Is
they
see
an
underperforming
asset
and
they
know
how
to
improve
it.
That.
B
Know
what
they
can
bring
to
the
table,
they've
failed
early
and
often
so
they
also
know
what
they
don't
bring
to
the
table.
So
that's
where
they
have
to
partner
up
right,
there's
something
that
maybe
they
don't
really
like
to
do
or
they're
not
really
organically
good
at
they
could
get
good
at
it.
But
why
bother
go
find
somebody
who
loves
that
and
just
excels
at
that?
B
You
bring
your
stuff
and
that's
where
I
think
you're
absolutely
right,
like
there's
no
clear
model
for
how
we're
going
to
put
these
pieces
together,
we're
working
our
way
as
a
culture
through
to
figuring
out.
Oh,
maybe
we
should
value
these
other
things.
How
would
how
would
we
value
those
in
our
dollar
based
world
at
this
point
in
time?
But
but
ultimately
an
entrepreneur
is
gonna,
be
somebody
who's
going
to
know
what
they
bring
to
the
table
know
how
to
form
a
team
and
can
spot
an
underperforming
asset
and
whether
that's
a
real
estate.
B
You
know
investment
or
whether
that's
a
piece
of
land
that
they
could
be
used
to
a
much
higher
value.
However,
we
define
that
I
think.
That's,
that's
really.
The
key
cuz
listen:
we
know
that
there
are
economies
in
prison
right,
there's
no
dollars
there,
but
there's
fully
functioning
economies
and
some
people
are
thriving
in
that
environment.
Some
aren't
and,
and
so
if
the
world
comes
to
a
place
where
somehow
our
forms
of
capital
become
impinged
for.
A
B
C
You
have
to,
and
so
stepping
into
it,
you
know,
working
with
whatever
capital
you
currently
have
an
abundance
will
beauty
the
chance
to
develop
resiliency
around
around
the
other
forms
of
capital
and
I
think,
especially
if
you're
able
to
step
into
an
entrepreneurial
role
that
is
in
some
way
connected
to
living
capital.
That
is
in
some
way
connected
to
growing
and
evolving.
C
It
has
a
lot
of
potential,
but
people
can't
see
it
right
now,
permaculture
and
carbon
farming.
We
have
an
understanding
that
land
can
actually
be
regenerated,
and
so
the
basic
business
model
is
that
we
purchase
undervalued
farmland,
use
promo
culture
and
host
management,
grazing
systems
to
repair
the
soil,
to
repair
the
ecosystem
and
then
in
some
way
or
another
return.
The
land
to
productive
use,
whether
that's
through
sale
to
a
farmer
or
to
a
community
and
recoup
our
financial
capital
investment.
C
B
B
Bottom
line,
I'll
tell
you
from
my
vantage
point:
I
see
younger
people
really
disconnecting
from
the
from
the
current
narrative
saying:
I,
don't
buy
I,
don't
understand
that
story,
I'm
supposed
to
live
into
student
debt,
home
ownership
consume,
and
that's
it.
What
there's
got
to
be
more?
What
are
you
seeing
I'm.
C
Seeing
so
I
see
that
trend
and
I'd
both
appreciate
that
trend
in
young
people
and
I
guess
I
put
out
a
warning
to
young
people
that
is
useful
to
question
that
dominant
narrative
and
I.
Think
that
you
can
do
that
at
the
expense
of.
Basically,
you
try
to
run
away
from
money.
You
try
to
run
away
from
the
financial
capital
and
profits.
I
think
you're
doing
yourself
a
disservice,
because
financial
capital
itself
isn't
evil.
It's
just
an
instrument,
it's
just
a
a
pathway
through
which
to
create
what
you
want
in
the
world.
C
So
that's
that's
an
edge
I'm
sort
of
working
when
I'm
working
with
the
younger
generation
is.
How
can
you
have
your
vision
and
goals
about
a
positive
future
and
yet
news
financial
capital
and
business
systems
to
achieve
that,
because
there's
so
much
more
flexibility
there
than
in
many
other
paths
it
could
go.
I
agree.
B
A
B
Regenerative
line
and
it
could
fall
on
either
end
or
in
the
middle
and,
and
so
the
idea,
though,
is
that
is
that
people
can
go
out
and
find
occupations
which
are
fundamentally
tilted
on
the
regenerative
side
of
things,
because
guess
what
there's
a
lot
of
tea
generation
out
there
lots
of
stuff
to
fix
right.
The
interminable
opportunity
out
there.
C
We
have
we
have
our
plates
full
in
all
of
our
enterprises
right
now.
One
of
the
things
we're
lacking
is
competent.
People
who
have
enough
training
and
permaculture
have
enough
training
in
business
that
they
can.
You
know,
effectively
become
part
of
our
team,
because
the
other
trend
that
I'm
experiencing
is
that
they're
really
intelligent,
brilliant
people
who
are
at
the
top
of
the
corporate
ladder
all
over
the
world
are
actually
beginning
to
shift
and
see
the
resource
depletion.
Resource
scarcity,
as
you
said,
you
know
the
impingement
upon
various
forms
of
capital
from
various.
C
You
know:
potential
uncertainties
that
are
coming
up
and
we're
seeing
more
and
more
folks
in
the
corporate
world
pivoting
very
quickly,
which
is
part
of
what's
awesome
about
the
business
world
is
it
can
shift
and
change
based
on
what
you
see
and
coming
and
asking
us
to
help
them
start
thinking
about
promo
culture
in
their
businesses,
in
the
effects
that
those
businesses
have
on
the
world.
So
you
know,
that's
a
that's
a
really
exciting
movement.
C
For
me,
it
feels
like
a
bit
of
a
bit
of
a
wave
coming
and
you
know
I'm
just
I'm,
just
hoping
a
novice
can
wax
our
surfboards
down.
To
really
be
able
to.
You
know,
make
that
a
beautiful,
beautiful
opportunity
and
there
are
people
out
there.
Some
of
my
mentors
are
working
in
the
business
world
and
have
been
for
a
long
time
and
actually
I
think
there's
a
there's
a
book.
C
I
mean
she's
50
years
ahead
of
me
in
the
depth
of
understanding
about
how
the
generation
and
resilience
works
in
the
world
and
I
think
that
that
books
gonna
be
really
inspiring
for
both
corporate
folks
and
entrepreneurs
out
there
to
see
how
they
can
begin
to
take
the
developmental
steps
in
the
pathway
towards
regeneration,
regardless
of
what
their
field
of
work
is.
We.
B
Love
getting
new
ideas
for
podcast
guests.
So
thank
you
for
that
because
it
sounds
like
somebody
we
absolutely
should
be
talking
to,
and
this
is
to
me
there's
we
get
back
to
this
idea.
You
have
to
become
the
change
you
wish
to
see
either
you're,
to
put
it
into
good
and
evil
terms,
either
you're
a
force
for
good
at
this
point
or
you're.
Not,
and-
and
this
is
the
thing
I
love
about
permaculture-
is
the
core
message
you.
B
C
C
An
option
yeah,
it's
a
it's
real
mistake
and
confusion
that
sort
of
it's
not
it's
an
anachronism.
I,
don't
know
it's
sort
of
it's
a
confusion.
That
I
think
has
happened
in
the
last
few
hundred
years,
an
understandable
confusion
because
we
have
seen
humans
do
a
huge
amount
of
damage
to
the
ecological
and
cultural
systems
around
us.
That's
that's
definitely
true,
but
there
there
is
a
way
there
was
a
way
in
each
of
our
indigenous
ancestry
whenever
and
wherever.
C
That
was
where
our
people
were
a
co-creator,
a
positive
role
in
their
ecosystems
and
managing
the
landscape
and
managing
the
culture
and
society
in
such
a
way
that
the
resilience
and
the
health
of
the
place
actually
increased
and
so
I
think
it's
really
important.
That
we'd
be
wary
of
the
sort
of
preservation.
Mr.
conservationist,
you
know
in
the
wetlands-
or
you
know,
don't
go
by
that
water,
because
humans
are
bad.
C
We
totally
have
to
have
to
shift
that
perspective
and
understand
that
if
you're
moving
with
consciousness-
and
you
know,
training
and
skill,
we
can
actually
be
regenerative
in
the
landscape,
and
that's
that's
huge
I
mean
like
my
friends
and
mentors.
If
the
Regenesis
group
are
doing
huge
work
right
now
to
shoot
that
perspective
in
the
in
the
world
of
landscape
architecture
and
architecture
and
design
and
really
helping
people
reclaim
their
role
as
positive
creative
participants
in
the
ecosystem.
B
Love
that
I
love
that
so
I
see
we've
come
up
on
our
time
here.
I.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
your
time.
I
want
to
ask
you,
though,
is
there
anything
that
you
might
want
to
point
people
towards
here
where
they
can
follow
your
work
or
maybe
sign
up
for
a
course
if
they
want
to
take
something
like
that,
and
also
where
to
find
your
book
absolutely.
C
To
find
our
book,
the
website
is
eat.
The
number
eight
forms
org
regenerative
Enterprise
is
the
name
of
the
book.
You
can
order
a
hard
copy
or
you
can
download
the
PDF
right
from
the
website.
That's
an
awesome
place
to
start
to
stay
tuned
to
what
we're
developing,
what
released
is
version
1.0
and
we're
actually
going
around
interviewing
finding
regenerative
Ecology's
and
preparing
to
write
the
next
version
of
the
book.
C
So
that's
a
great
place
to
stay
tuned
for
that
eight
forms,
org
and
then
there's
so
many
places
you
can
go
to
find
permaculture
courses,
one
kind
of
clearinghouse
at
Global,
three
global
directory
of
permaculture
education
is
called
perma
courses.
That's
just
primer
courses
comments.
You
can
search
that
by
a
location
or
by
date
and
find
permaculture
design
courses
all
over
the
world
and
then,
if
you're,
on
the
agriculture
side
or
are
interested
in
really
how
to
flow
larger
amounts
of
financial
capital
into
the
germination
into
living
capital.
C
B
Fantastic
I
and
maybe
I'll
all
attend
that
because
I
I
live
on
62
feet
of
sand.
It's
it's
always
a
fight
for
organic
content
where
I
live
but
I'm
sure
that's
something
that
applies
anywhere.
People
live
so
with
that.
I
really
want
to.
Thank
you
so
much
for
putting
this
framework
together
and
for
your
time
today
and
allowing
us
to
use
it
in
the
course
and
it's
just
it's
been
very
helpful
so
far
so
Ethan.
Thank
you
so
much
and
all
the
best
in
your
efforts.
Thank.