►
From YouTube: Regenerati News Hour June 1, 2023 ReFi Summit Debrief
Description
Updates from Gregory Landua following ReFi Summit
D
B
The
stuff
in
the
voluntary
carbon
Market
space
and
Beyond
very
appreciative
of
that
and
Jade
good
to
see
you
Howard
when
you
get
a
chance
to
chat,
but
it
was
nice
to
see
you
from
far
in
Seattle
awesome,
so
I
think
today,
we're
gonna
I,
think
we're
gonna
cover
a
couple
areas.
We're
gonna
spend
a
chunk
of
time
kind
of
reviewing
our
time
together
in
Seattle
at
refi
Summit.
B
That
was
quite
a
time
in
year,
two
I
think
there
maybe
discuss
some
discussion
around
Wilbur
Hot
Springs
there's
this
Gathering
of
some
regenerates
there
and
some
lofty
ideas
laid
out
just
to
bring
you
up
on
a
couple
things
again.
My
name
is
Dave
Fortson
I'm
with
regen
Network
development
for
many
years
now,
as
a
long
time,
partner,
also
CEO
of
Loa
Labs
we're
integrated
marketing
marketing
on
a
product
firm
for
better
world
blockchain.
Super
happy
to
be
here.
B
I
was
also
the
MC
and
moderator
at
the
second
annual
refi
Summit.
So
all
kinds
of
hats
I've
got
on
this
morning
and
yeah
excited
to
give
you
a
kind
of
an
expose
of
what
happened
on
the
inside
of
refi
Summit.
This
past
week,
most
of
us
just
are
kind
of
landed
back
safely
in
our
homes,
and
you
know
I
guess
first
I
just
want
to
give
a
big
shout
to
Rex
in
particular
as
a
Visionary
around
this
and
Jeff.
Who
is
his
right
hand?
B
B
D
B
Over
the
course
of
the
past
year,
but
last
year,
I
think
was
a
little
bit
more
Buzzy,
yeah
I'd,
say
a
little
bit
more
frothy
in
a
way
where,
for
me
at
least
you
know,
and
it
was
the
first
year
you
know
people
are
getting
to
know
each
other.
There
are
a
lot
of
you
know.
There
are
a
lot
of
dows
that
weren't
Dows.
B
There
were
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
discussion
of
what
could
be
and
which
I
think
frankly
was
pretty
indicative
of
the
regenda
finance
space
in
web
3,
which
I
don't
think
is
unusual
and
yeah,
and
it
was
not
not
even
a
critique
at
all,
but
just
more
of
an
observation
and
for
me
this
year
this
year
felt
even
though
the
the
numbers
were
the
same.
If
not
a
few
more
people
there,
it
felt
more
tempered
more
realistic.
Frankly,
a
little
bit
more
grown
up.
B
There
was
a
significant
number
more
like
building
like
products
that
were
either
in
Market
or
near
Market,
which
was
exciting
to
to
see
I.
Think
again,
indicative
of
a
year
under
our
belts
and
also
you
know
it's
it's
clear
that
you
know
a
lot
of
the
you
know
kind
of
more
early
stage.
Folks,
you
know
some
weren't,
there
I
think
some
have
moved
on
and
you
know
I
think
some
of
the
more
established
teams
were
still
moving
and
moving
ahead
pretty
strongly.
B
Even
in
a
you
know,
a
relatively
tough
market
conditions,
but
you
know
I
think
for
me
generally,
is
always
the
most
enlivening
parts
were
the
Deep
conversations
and
the
social
time
we
had
together
the
long
walks
from
the
venue
to
the
house,
sipping
a
beer
drinking
or
eating
some
food
together
and
just
digging
in
and
building
those
those
relationships
that
we
maintain
digitally
but
are
frankly,
can
be
hard
to
build,
digitally
that
really
get
solidified.
When
we
just
get
together.
B
You
know,
as
I,
think
I
started
my
kind
of
opening
remarks.
We
really
are
better
when
we're
together
to
to
steal
from
my
old
friend,
Jack
Johnson.
So
anyhow,
that's
just
a
kind
of
a
maybe
to
start
us
off
I'm
inviting
inviting
Gregory
up
here
but
Rex.
Maybe
do
you
want
to
give
a
kind
of
yeah,
maybe
I'd
be
curious
to
get
you
know
a
reflection
a
year
or
a
year
ago
to
today
and
just
how
you
saw
a
change
or
some
growth.
C
Last
year,
I
mean
once
again
or
a
year
before
it
was
like
coming
out
of
kovid,
which
hit
the
reset
button
on
absolutely
everyone's
life
and
career
and
all
the
technology
and
all
the
lifestyle
like
and
then
it's
just
we
came
in,
did
refi
Summit,
and
that
was
a
period
when
everybody
had
been
separated
and
like
decided.
They
want
to
go
on
a
but
honestly
change
careers
like
change
their
life
change,
the
technology
and
they'd
only
interacted
with
each
other,
virtually
so
I.
C
You
know
to
do
it
programmatically
to
spread
it
through
an
ecosystem
to
make
it
infrastructure.
You
know
Carbon
offsets
that
are
easily
accessible
via
programming
interfaces.
Same
with
AI,
we
had
an
AI
Workshop,
so
this
is
getting
Hands-On
and
more
solutions
focused.
It
feels
like,
but
I
think
there's
something
else
in
the
room
and
I
have
to
say
what
it
is
is
I
think
everybody
is
hitting
a
pivot
point
right
now,
where
they
have
to
redesign
their
whole
business
effectively
like
like
pull
apart
all
the
pieces
and
be
like
okay.
C
We
got
to
go
back
to
you,
know
pretty
raw
basics
and
I
think
I'm
the
conversations
I'm
having
a
lot
is
people
will
come
to
me
and
I'll
I'll,
pull
apart
their
business
and
redesign
it
and
like
their
lifestyle
back
into
it
and
I'm
interested
in
that
like
like
what
happens
when
the
liquidity
is
removed
from
crypto
is
you're
left
with.
You
know
just
a
regular,
boring
business
and
then
you
have
to
kind
of
redesign
that
in
a
new
way
and
rethink
that
and
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
that
happening
right
now.
B
B
You
know
when
the
liquidity,
squeezed
out
and
I
and
I
keep
getting
this
like
sponge
analogy
of
literally
the
past
year
has
been
this
like
somewhat
slow
but
very
consistent
smashing
of
the
earth
twisting
of
the
ringing.
If
the
right
word
of
the
sponge
and
squeezing
out
the
liquidity
really
across
web
3,
and
that,
regardless
of
whether
you
were
exposed
to
FTX
or
Tara
Luna
or
otherwise,
it
really
does
hit
all
of
our
bottom
lines
and
it's
it's
required
in
a
lot
of
ways.
B
A
ringing
out
of
the
companies
that
were
have
been
involved
in
web
3,
including
regenerative
Finance
as
a
VC
capital
and
Venture
cap.
You
know,
Venture
Capital
has
become
a
little
bit
more
gun
shy
and
token
prices
have
decreased
dramatically,
but
I.
You
know
in
some
ways
or
in
many
ways
I
think
there's.
This
kind
of
more
sober
realism
is
created
is
going
to
create
a
more
resilient
and
more
just
a
stronger
Foundation
from
which
to
grow
over
the
course
of
the
next
24
months.
B
C
I
want
to
weigh
in
on
the
effect
that
it's
had
at
least
in
the
gaming
Market,
so
it's
like
going.
You
know
last
year,
if
we
went
to
nft
New
York
I
mean
there's
huge
gaming
crypto
floor
at
nft,
New
York
City,
you
know
like
these
crypto
events
were
super
thriving
and
this
year,
I'd
say
starting
in
East,
Denver
and
consensus.
C
It
was
a
little
lighter
and
when
the
investment
pulls
out,
you
saw
like
there's
less
net
new
product
formation,
and
what's
interesting
is
seeing
that,
like
you
know,
going
to
GDC
with
the
game
developer
conference
that
event
was
doing
fantastic
and
then
you
go
to
consensus
and
you're
like
well.
It's
a
little
lighter
on
games
this
year.
It's
like
little
smaller
little
fewer
new
projects
and
I
think
what's
happening.
C
Now
is
if,
if
like
regrounding
this
to
a
crypto,
a
crypto
native
audience,
a
refi
native
audience
like
I
think
the
thing
the
move
to
make
now
is
to
be
try
and
be
the
one
that
crosses
the
chasm
it's
like.
Rather
than
doing
the
crypto
gaming
activations
at
the
crypto
conference.
You
want
to
do
the
do
that
at
the
at
the
gaming
conference,
not
the
crypto
conference,
so
in
refi,
that
would
mean
taking
the
message
to
the
existing
climate.
C
B
C
E
Yeah
I
mean
you
know,
I,
think
we're
all.
In
the
midst
of
a
pretty
of
a
I
mean
unprecedented
uncertainty
and
lots
of
emotional
ups
and
downs
I
mean
gosh.
It's
been
a
roller
coaster
between
last
year's
refi
Summit
and
this
year's
Reef
five
Summit
I
mean
last
year.
Terra
lunar
collapse
happened
during
the
summit
this
year
we
got
to
sort
of
you
know.
One
res
from
solid
world
now
gave
everybody
a
sort
of
like
101
primer,
for
why
the
tokenomics
collapsed.
So
it's
just
to
say
what
I
think.
E
What
gave
me
hope
was.
The
amount
of
learning
that
I
had
experienced
and
I
was
witnessing
other
people's
other
people
experiencing
sharing
about
and
then
up,
leveling
and
kind
of
there
was
a
really
significant
maturation.
It
felt
like
amongst
the
people
who
were
there,
so
that's
I,
think
that's
what
my
Hope
was
rooted
in
is
that
yeah
there's
a
lot
of
learning
taking
place
and
as
Rex
was
saying
you
know
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
have
to
do.
E
We
have
to
answer
a
lot
of
pretty
hard
questions
in
order
to
create
sustainable
vocations
and
the
right
unit
economics.
At
the
base
of
regenerative
Finance
like
people's
lives,
just
have
to
be
working.
We
can't
get
away
on
just
like
writing
a
speculative
bubble
into
the
you
know,
Sunset
that
there
actually
has
to
be
real
value,
exchange
and
solid
relationships
and
real
value
being
generated.
Not
just
extracted
or
or
floating
just
like
in
a
big
bubble
float,
and
you
know,
I
I
think
I
think
we're
moving
in
that
direction.
E
You
know
I
I,
think
it's
sort
of
you
know,
there's
sort
of
two
paths
at
moments
like
this
and
the
relationships
that
get
built
and
the
work
that
gets
done
when
things
aren't
in
a
hype
cycle,
but
instead
you
know
we
have
to
really
dig
down
and
and
connect
with
first
principles
and
then
do
work
are,
you
know,
do
end
up
having
massive
Downstream
effects
as
Market
Cycles
shift
again.
So
those
are
just
a
few
of
a
few
of
my
thoughts.
E
Okay,
cool
I
also
want
to
just
call
out
you
know
as
we're
as
we're
chatting
about
refi
Summit
before
refi
Summit,
a
bunch
of
the
region
team
was
down
in
California
at
Wilbur
Hot
Springs
during
the
an
eco-weaving
retreat
with
a
bunch
of
amazing
folks
and
I,
see
Samantha
here
and
yin's.
Here
there
may
be
some
others
so
feel
free
to
raise
your
hand
if
you
want
to
hop
up
and
just
chat
just
overview
of
of
that
Gathering
it
was.
E
Indigenous
communities
in
the
Amazon
and
like
using
that
as
a
case
study
for
how
how
to
be
thinking
about
the
tools,
the
technology,
the
financial
applications
and
kind
of
grow
capability
as
allies,
so
it
had
a
very
interesting
connection.
My
experience
is
very
interesting
between
the
two
different
Gatherings
refi
Summit
was,
you
know
a
lot
more
technically
focused,
although
there
was
some
pretty
heavy
technical
lifting
going
on
in
the
in
the
process
there
at
the
Eco
weaving
Gathering.
But
you
know
I
think
there
was
a
significant.
You
know.
E
Some
of
the
significant
differences
is.
There
was
a
lot
more
kind
of
like
legal
engineering.
First
principles,
conversation
going
on
eco,
weaving
about
what
are
right
relationships
between
actors
and
and
we
had
some
of
those
conversations
at
refi
Summit,
but
it
was
just
a
little
less
active,
so
I'm
just
making
it.
You
know
contextualizing
that
and
making
an
invitation
of
folks
from
that
side
of
the
community
want
to
hop
up
and
and
chat
you're,
very
welcome
to
no
I'll
pause
there
and
see
Rex
and
and
Dave
what
you
want.
C
C
Yeah
so
yeah,
like
the
different
types
of
events,
I
mean
we
had
a
little
more
technical
workshops,
sure
and
Hands-On
portions
and
I'd
like
to
see
that
part
grow,
because
you
know
like
the
work
that
someone
like
regen
network,
is
doing
in
the
cosmos
ecosystem,
combined
with
the
work
of
somebody
Dan
Lynch
from
cosmology.
So
what
cosmology
has
done?
C
Is
they
built
some
simple
interfaces
to
make
it
easy
to
interact
with
Cosmos
tokens
on
the
front
end
such
as
you
know,
pulling
in
regen,
Network
tokens
and
programmatically
interacting
with
that
like
using?
You
know,
potentially
carbon
offsets,
as,
as
you
know,
a
universal
kind
of
currency
across
different
chains
and
and
like
that
programmatic
approach
makes
a
lot
of
sense
to
me
because
that's
that's.
My
whole
background
is
developer
relations
and
coming
in
here
to
refi
like
that,
I've
been
looking
for
that
that
piece
to
develop,
and
you
see
things
like
stripe.
C
They
spend
a
lot
of
time
like
forming
relationships
that
allow
you
to
automatically
offset
carbon
as
part
of
your
checkout
flow,
like
I
kind
of
see
these
these
offset
tokens
being
used
in
that
way,
and
the
developer
experience
piece
being
like
a
leading
go
to
market.
In
that
you
know,
you
know
a
way
to
scale
to
get
to
more
applications.
You
know
you
could
imagine.
Maybe
one
day
it's
like
Shopify
has
like
plugins
to
you
to
enable
any
Shopify
store
owner
to
use
regen
tokens
in
their
checkout
experience.
C
Somehow
so,
I
kind
of
like
see
a
future
like
that
and
I.
Don't
know
if
that's
ever
going
to
come
true,
but
that
that
was
my
reasoning
for
doing
those
those
kinds
of
workshops
so
yeah
any
any
comment,
Greg
or
maybe
just
if
people
we
open
it
up
and
let
people
talk
that
that
came
to
refi
Summit,
like
talk
with
or
or
your
event
like
just
talk
about
what
their
perspective
is.
I
think
it
would
be
interesting
to
hear
from
people.
E
E
You
know
I,
don't
know
if
we
call
what
we're
doing
in
industry
or
a
movement,
but
anyway,
at
this
stage
of
what
is
emerging.
I
think
in
person,
time
and
different
in
a
variety
of
different
types
of
in-person
time
is
really
important,
because
the
the
level
of
kind
of
like
thought
and
engagement
and
cross-pollination
that's
needed
to
orient
and
build,
is
I
think
best
achieved
with
in-person
time.
I.
E
Also,
though,
there's
a
hazard
right
around
events
and
there's
also
sort
of
like
the
dark
side
of
the
event
seen
is
that
lots
of
people
just
like
go
from
event
to
event
and
not
that
much
work
gets
done.
So
there's
sort
of
like
this
very
interesting
dichotomy
where,
in
some
cases
we
get
these
sort
of
yeah
I,
don't
know,
I
mean
I'm
sort
of
flagging
that
there
are
there
are-
and
you
spoke
about
this-
about
elements
of
this
at
refi
Summit
in
your
closing
wrecks.
E
But
you
know
so
there's
an
emerging
community
of
digital
Nomads
and
people
building
the
network
State
and
there's
all
of
this
work
to
get
done.
There's
also
just
a
lot
of
the
hazard
or
risk
is
that
we
end
up
creating
kind
of
a
superficial
sort
of
like
event
scene
culture,
but
not
a
lot
of
deep
work
is
getting
done.
E
A
F
E
Know
where
are
there
examples
of
of
that
balance
between
the
depth
of
connection
and
inquiry
and
community
and
rebuilding
new
communities
that
are
focused
on
you
know,
in
our
case,
let's
just
anchor
it,
you
know
focused
on
regenerative
outcomes,
planetary
regeneration,
using
Finance
money
technology
AI
to
achieve
ecological
and
social
regeneration.
I.
E
Think
that
the
context
we're
talking
about
do
you
see
good
examples
of
corners
of
that
movement
that
are
really
nailing
the
balance
between
creating
in-person
spaces
for
inquiry
around
the
ethos
and
practice
of
all
of
this,
and
also
just
like
getting
done
and
piloting
and
prototyping
and
building?
Do
you
see
evidence
that
there's
balance
or
are
we
still
iterating
towards.
C
C
It's
like
a
sharing
economy,
but
now
you
can
rent,
like
you
know
a
place
in
you
know
you
can
become
a
subscription
to
a
network
City
that
lets
you
go
to
these
different
nature
locations
and
it
seems
like
the
missing
piece
there
is
that
service
component
of
actually
not
just
being
a
digital
Nomad
there,
but
also
somehow
enriching
the
environment
while
you're
there
so
I
think
that
seems
to
be
a
growth
area.
I,
don't
know
that
much
about,
but
it
seems
like
like
that
thread
is
some
somehow
has
the
potential
to
come
back.
E
Here
and
maybe
that
maybe
that's
I-
don't
actually
know
that
much
about
I
actually
don't
know
much
that
that
much
about
Cavender
but
I
know
that
you
know
cabin
down.
There's
Embassy
Network,
there's
there's
there
are
an
embassy
is
way
older
and
non
web
free
right,
but
was
one
of
the
big
sort
of
like
part
of
the
community
that
we
were
having
a
fantastic
time
interacting
with
and
evolving
thinking
at
the
Eco
weaving
Gathering
yeah
I
mean
I,
think
I.
Think
service
is
Right,
a
really
important
thing
to
evoke.
A
E
Other
thing,
that's
coming
to
my
mind
in
this
conversation,
is
I've
just
been
holding
this
inquiry
really
over
the
last
couple
years,
but
it's
peaked
over
the
last
month
or
so
around.
Whatever
happened
to
Mutual
Aid
societies,
what
what
happened
to
you
know?
What
is
our
generation's
version
of
the
Elks
Lodge
or
you
know
gasp?
You
know
like
organizations
like
the
Masons
or
the
Odd
Fellows.
E
You
know
it's
centering
in
on
Odd
Fellows,
for
instance,
because
I
know
a
little
bit
about
the
history
of
the
Odd
Fellows
in
in
the
United
States
Odd
Fellows
was
created
by
working
class
men
to
create
a
mutual
Aid
Society.
Basically
they
were
insuring
each
other,
so
they
paid
membership
dues.
But
then
you
know
it
was
created
in
a
time
when
Blue
Collar
labor
was
very
dangerous
and
there
was
no
such
thing
as
interesting.
You
know
life
interesting.
C
E
There
was
no
such
thing,
as
you
know,
all
there
was
all
these
social
safety
net
gaps
and
people
came
together
and
they
created
a
mutual
Aid
Society.
They
pooled
resources.
And
then
you
know
if
a
member
died,
they
would
take
care
of
the
Widow
and
the
kids
I
think
that
was
one
of
the
primary
sort
of
like
you
know,
just
like
primary
utilities
that
was
being
provided
by
the
members,
but
then
of
course,
I
think
probably
they
were
also
sort
of
engaging
and
talking
about
politics
and
having
social
Gatherings,
and
you
know
like
just.
E
You
know
a
paradigm
of
societal
organization
and
economics,
but
also
we're
competing
against
each
other
for
scarce
time,
attention,
resources
and
approaches.
So
anyway,
what?
At
what
places
do
we
try
to
think
about
these
questions
of
you
know
as
you're
saying
service,
where
we're
coming
together
to
to
specifically
serve
a
region
or
a
location
or
community
and
our
own
Mutual
Aid,
where
we're
sort
of
committing
to
support
and
engagement
over.
You
know
competition,
so
just
just.
C
C
It
seems
like
we're
in
like
almost
like
a
proto-country
state
right
now
and
that
is
making
those
analogies
suddenly
relevant,
so
studying
those
situations
where
a
nascent
country
is
beginning
to
form
a
structure
and
how
those
structures
evolved
over
time
and
you
nailed
it
you're,
like
you
know,
things
start
getting
real
when
a
group
starts
talking
about
forming
their
own
health,
insurance
and
retirement.
That's
when
things
like
really
get
real
in
terms
of
like
a
civilization.
You
know
country,
developing
of
sorts
and
when
I
look
at
the
cosmos
ecosystem.
C
You
know
here's
an
example:
75
projects
distributed
internationally.
How
come
this
group
of
projects?
It's
a
I,
call
it
a
Federated
ecosystem
when's.
The
point
when
this
group
of
projects
starts
negotiating
bulk,
Health,
Care,
internationally
or
adding
a
doctor
Network,
that's
when
it
gets
real,
so
I
I
think,
like
that
thread
about
like
coming
to
the
realization
that
actually
nobody's
coming
to
solve
this
problem,
and
it's
something
that
you
know
will
come
out
of.
This
group
of
people
waking
up
and
realizing
that
it's
a
form
of
proto-country
or
Society,
like
the
optos.
E
C
You
know
it's
like
I
come
in
here,
doing
my
Summit
and
then
you
know
slow
carbon's
doing
their
Summit
and,
like
their
flow,
carb
is
doing
theirs
that
eat
Denver
and,
like
I
I'm
I'm
doing
like
a
standalone
one.
It's
like
well
yeah
I
have
to
rethink
how
I
design
my
event,
because
people
just
went
to
the
flow
carbon
Summit
AT
consensus
I'm
not
going
to
have
all
the
same
speakers,
because
why
would
you
go
to
both
so
that
forces
you
to
design
around
your
competition
and
design
something
unique
and
I?
C
Think,
as
the
market
fills
up,
then
you
have
to
constantly
design
your
position
against
your
competitors
and
that's
going
to
force
you
to
get
clear
about
what
you're
good
at
and
what
you're
able
to
do
versus
what
they
are
good
at
and
what
they're
able
to
do,
and
maybe
the
the
role
of
the
events
is
to
help
you
figure
that
out
faster.
It's
like
a
natural
process.
E
We
did
an
ad
so
so
Corey
from
the
r
d
public
benefit
Corp
team.
This
is
the
team,
the
core
software
team.
That's
been
building
region,
Network
software
did
we,
he
did
a
a
little
demo
and
it
was
kind
of
ad
hoc
last
minute
minute
got
thrown
up
on
the
dry
erase
board
as
a
demo.
During
lunch
and
I
think
over
half
the
summit,
participants
were
like
gathered
around
the
screen
there,
and
that
was
in
really
that
you
know
I
don't
want
to.
E
You
know
like
name,
shame
or
anything,
but
that
was
in
stark
contrast
for
the
other
demos
that
took
place.
The
other
demos
I
think
maximum
participation
was
like
five
people
and
the
and
our
demo
had
like
yeah
I,
don't
know
40
people,
maybe
around
and
I,
was
surprised
and
super
excited
by
that
like
there
was
something
there
that
was
really
interesting
to
me.
E
Like
both,
you
know
to
not
be
the
one
giving
it
and
to
have
people
leaning
in
and
being
Technic
interested
in
this
Technical
Edge
that
we
were
sharing
around
specifically,
you
know:
how
do
you
use
the
data
module
and
the
credit
module
to
create
to
sort
of
combine
claims
and
data
proofs
use
that
in
either
a
fully
transparent
or
zero
knowledge
way
and
and
have
that
lead
to
credit
minting?
And
there
was
just
like
so
much
interest
in
that,
so
it
really
like
taking
a
step
back
and
I
was
thinking.
E
C
So
what
I
did
was
I
organized
a
couple,
a
town
hall
where
I
just
sent
it
to
my
whole
list
and
I
had
like
40
people
join,
and
it
was
just
a
group
whiteboarding
session
and
like
the
the
magic
is
in
how
you
run
the
and
and
and
run
the
session.
Because
for
me
it's
like
open
product
management.
I'm
like
what
do
you?
What
did
you
like
about
refi
Summit
last
year?
What
do
you
think
is
going
to
be
a
trend?
What
do
you
think
we
should
be
there?
C
More
and
like
I
got
12
pages
of
notes
from
that
I
still
have
it
in
notion
and
I'm,
like
I
bet
that
those
notes
will
be
relevant
for
three
to
five
years.
Is
my
experience
just
that
that
data,
so
if,
if
I
was
a
CEO
or
a
product
manager,
and
and
you
saw
a
result
like
that,
you
should
do
a
double
tap
and
try
and
bring
that
group
in
and
go
and
do
the
town
hall
session,
it's
like
hey.
What
exactly
was
it
about
that
session
like?
C
Why
is
that
interesting
to
you,
what
is
I
think
we
should
do
more
of
and
then
expand
on
that
and
do
more
of
that,
because
apparently
there's
something
that's
working
there
and
you
just
have
to
and
like
this
is
a
general
comment
for
everybody
in
the
room.
You
know
it's
like.
If
you
see
a
hint
that
something
is
working,
you
gotta
go
figure
it
out
and
expand
on
it
and
then
go
get
that
data
from
those
people
run
it
as
an
open,
Town,
Hall
session
or
individually,
and
then
go
figure
out.
C
What
exactly
is
is
going
on
there.
So
that's
that's
what
I
would
have
done
with
with
that
data,
ideally
I,
think
in
retrospect
the
power
move
would
have
been
for
you
to
interrupt
or
come
in
at
the
end
of
the
session
and
say:
hey.
Can
we
talk
about
why
everybody
came
to
this
like?
What
exactly
do
you
want
to
get
on
this?
Why
is
this
so
interesting?
That
would
have
been
an.
A
E
E
So
for
like
two
solid
years
there
I
personally
did
a
huge
amount
of
work.
My
role
at
Region
was
really
like
running
test
Nets
and
Community
processes
and
ecosystem
building
with
technical
partners
with
the
validator
community.
Some
of
you
out.
There
may
even
remember
this
era,
and
at
that
time
that
was
the
community
we
most
needed
to
help
bootstrap
and
generate
this
concept
of
like
public.
E
A
public
infrastructure
for
ecological
accounting,
just
like
Conjuring
it
into
existence,
requires
people
with
a
high
degree
of
technical
capability
to
run
a
network
right
and
to
test
that
Network,
and
we
also
remember
this
was
early
days
of
Cosmos,
so
we
were
also
like
pushing
the
technology
forward
through
that
process.
There
wasn't
even
like.
Oh,
you
can
just
use
this
off
the
shelf.
It
was
like.
E
Oh,
we
need
to
like
test
every
single
thing
for
security
and
stress
tested
that
was
really
fun
and
really
successful
on
a
number
of
different
levels
and
and
actually
got
us
pretty
far
down
the
road
and
I
started.
Remembering
I
was
like
oh
yeah.
What
would
it
be
like
to
be
building
community
in
a
similar
way?
E
And
who
is
the
community
at
this
moment
and
that's
actually
what
I
was
observing
around?
Who
is
watching
that
demo
I
was
like
what
are
most
of
the
people
in
in
the
room.
Doing
and
I
was
kind
of
like
doing
an
informal
cataloging
I
also
am
like
thinking
that
as
I'm
looking
at
folks,
who
are
here
in
the
call
like
what
are
people
doing
where
where's
the
interest
where's
the
passion
and
what
emerged
for
me,
and
so
this
is
a
little
bit
of
alpha
for
folks
in
the
room.
E
We
build
a
community
that
wants
to
pre-invest
in
the
winners
of
this
and
we
build
a
process
and
and
use
a
set
of
tools
for
people
to
just
be
like
iterating,
new
carbon,
new
biodiversity,
new
water,
new
holistic
credits,
I
I
started
sort
of
like
soft,
pitching
that
to
some
of
the
kind
of
like
project
developers-
and
you
know
folks
focused
on
things
like
this
folks,
like
Teemo
at
Basin.
Folks
like
will
at
Ogallala
life
folks
like
will
and
Paul
at
cambium
and
yeah.
E
People
were
really
excited
about
this
idea
that
and
there's
different
people
are
going
to
play
different
roles,
but
that
we
could
just
be
like
sprinting,
together
on
novel
expressions
of
ecological
value,
using
a
common
set
of
tools
and
like
the
net
win
of
that,
the
net
value
of
people
learning
and
growing
and
learning
from
each
other,
but
also
like
sort
of
the
fun
friendly
competition
right,
and
so
you
heard
it
here.
First
folks,
I
I
think
we're
going
to
start
running
a
little
open
competition.
E
G
G
You
know
whether
there
are
buyers
for
the
credits
that
we
would
be
designing.
That
would
be
aligned
with
the
values
and
needs
of
these
indigenous
can
communities,
and
we,
many
of
us
believe
that
maybe
those
buyers
need
to
be
engaged
from
the
beginning
and
be
a
part
of
the
design
process,
so
that
you,
you
know,
there's
a
buyer
at
the
end
of
it,
and
the
buyer
understands
why
the
the
credit
is
structured.
The
way.
A
G
And
how
the
mrv
works,
and
perhaps
through
this
more
engaged
design
process,
there's
room
for
more
qualitative
indicators
as
well
as
quantitative
indicators.
Maybe
there's
process-based
indicators
as
well
and
I
think
you.
It
reduces
the
risk,
of
course,
of
the
the
community
is
developing
the
credits
that
there
is
going
to
be
a
buyer
at
the
end
of
it,
and
this
is
something
I'd
love
to
be
a
part
of.
So
thank
you
for
sharing
that
Gregory.
E
Awesome
yeah,
I,
I
think
the
the
idea,
the
idea
of
co-learning,
the
idea
of
stepping
back
and
saying
you
know
at
least
for
region.
This
is
one
of
the
things
that
I've
been.
You
know
the
the
creative
potential
of
different
actors
coming
together:
buyers
and
sellers
land,
stewards,
project
developers,
verifiers
and
kind
of
like
playing
and
being
a
little
bit
more
playful,
because
the
the
Eco
credit
carbon
credit
biodiversity
credits
like
the
the
space
tends
to
be
so
claustrophobically,
serious
and
so,
and
it's
so
counterproductive
for
learning.
I
feel
like
right.
E
People
and
people
get
so
like
focused
on
this
right
way
and
and
I.
You
know
I
just
feel
like.
Actually,
if
we
just
take
a
step
back
and
cut
and
have
fun
and
turn
it
into
a
creative,
experimental
collaborative
storytelling
process
where
people
are
just
kind
of
like
taking
a
crack
at
something
wild
and
wonderful
and
getting
feedback
about
that
I
feel
like
what
is
gonna
emerge
out
of
that
is
going
to
blow
all
of
our
minds
like
there's
gonna,
be
new
approaches
to
verification.
There's
going
to
be
new
approaches
to
unitization.
E
There's
going
to
be
new
approaches
that
that
actually
land
for
buyers,
because
they
can
see
the
process
as
well
and
they
can
participate
right
as
part
of
the
process
and
in
that
participation
both
sides
learn
from
each
other.
So
you
know
anyway,
I
feel
like
it's
going
to
be
kind
of
fun,
to
just
explode
things
out
and
and
have
a
have.
C
A
contact,
my
observation,
is
that
the
kinds
of
tools
people
are
using
and
the
way
they
use
the
tools
is
ready
to
change
because
it's
like
I,
don't
think
like
Twitter
spaces
and
podcasts.
For
example,
I'm
like
that
was
I.
Think
podcast
was
fine
like
the
last
couple
years,
but
now,
like
this
kind
of
collaborative
design
together
thing
I've
had
some
good
experience.
C
There's
some
there's
some
like
sticky
note
like
collaborative
tools
and
I,
also
I'm,
not
sure
I
think
it
needs
to
be
visual,
so
I,
don't
think
it
can
be
on
a
Twitter
spaces,
and
you
know
I've
done
over
I've
organized
over
100
events.
This
includes
hackathons
conferences,
workshops,
Road,
shows
over
the
last
15
years
and,
like
the
designing,
an
event
is
a
really
special
craft
like
who
should
be
there.
G
G
The
actual
activities
that
are
happening
on
the
ground
are
happening
in
a
very
unique
socio-cultural
and
bioreal
context,
and
that
has
to
be
taken
into
account
and
there's
not
a
one-size-fits-all
approach,
so
I
think
bringing
together
the
the
buyers
and
the
communities
and
the
technical
experts
that
can
support
them.
In
that
credit
design
process
could
yield
much
better
results
than
we've
seen
so
far.
E
Foundation
was
over
at
the
collaborative
Finance
Gathering
that
was
hosted
at
the
crypto
Commons
Hub
in
Austria
and
I'm
just
really
curious
to
hear
how
that
went
because
I,
you
know
it's
like
there
were
there's
these
multiple
communities
and
spaces
all
talking
about
adjacent
themes
and
topics
and
Gathering
and
I'm
just
curious.
You
know
what
were
your
takeaways
and
and
how
does
that
fit
into
the
sort
of
larger
thread
of
the
conversation
that
we're
having
today
on
the
spaces.
F
Yeah
hi
everyone
thanks
Gregory
yeah,
so
I
just
got
back
from
a
10-day
trip
to
Austria
the
the
Gathering,
so
collaborative
finances
this
term
that
Ethan
Buckman
has
been
using
and
some
other
people
have
been
using
in
the
space.
There's
there's
a
lot
of
something
five
terms
at
this
point.
Of
course
we're
all
familiar
with
refi
and
D5,
and
now
there's
this
Kofi,
so
collaborative
Finance
is
tapping
into
the
the
rich
history
around
credit
based
money
or
mesh
credit
or
Mutual
Credit.
F
There
is
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
people
who
have
been
working
in
this
field
for
a
long
time,
both
on
the
local
currency
front,
as
well
as
on
the
regional
Industrial
Credit
clearing
front.
There
was
this
paper
that
came
out
I,
think
in
2021
on
essentially
liquidity
savings
mechanisms,
so
a
bunch
of
it
gets
into
some
some
technical
Financial
applications,
but
they
have
very
significant
real
world
impacts.
F
Where,
if
you
can
get
a
community
of
people
to
agree
to
use
some
kind
of
Mutual
Credit
mechanism,
then
you
don't
need
cash
or
currency
or
liquidity
in
order
to
have
the
economy
functioning
it,
and-
and
this
is
just
due
to
the
simple
fact
that
most
entities
operate
at
a
cash
neutral
basis.
Your
your
kind
of
inflows
and
outflows
roughly
match
up.
So
you
can
use
this
to
really
cut
down
on
wait.
F
With
so
yeah
I
mean
so
the
the
I
guess
to
zoom
out
a
little
bit
here.
Money
always
begins
and
ends
with
people
there's.
Even
though
we
talk
about
payments
for
ecosystem
services
or
Commodities
or
or
other
abstractions
like
these.
Ultimately
they
are
abstractions.
Money
always
begins
and
ends
with
people
and
there's
two
basic
theories
on
how
to
conceptualize
this
one
is
the
commodity
Theory,
where
you
have
things
like
gold
and
and
other
kinds
of
assets,
and
the
other
is
the
credit
Theory
which
says
you.
F
So
I'm
happy.
If
people
want
to
ask
me
some
more
questions
about
this,
but
that
the
the
Gathering
there
were
60
of
us
there
and
probably
half
from
the
kind
of
crypto
side
of
things
ethic
Hub
was
there,
which
is
doing
some
great
work
with
coffee,
Growers
circles,
Universal
basic
income.
Was
there
I
I
wrote
a
whole
post
on
this
that
both
the
foundation
myself
tweeted
out
I
can
share
it
in
the
comments
here
afterwards
and
then
there
were
a
whole
bunch
of
local
currency.
F
Regional
Credit,
clearing
system
people
there,
so
people
who
have
absolutely
nothing
to
do
with
crypto
but
are
interested
in
on
the
ground
impacts
and
the
the
question
that
the
kind
of
space
of
exploration
was
okay,
we're
both
ultimately
working
to
do
some
of
the
same
things
improve
real
world
outcomes
through
Innovations
and
how
we
look
at
money.
So
why
don't
we?
Why
don't
we
collaborate
on
this.
E
Amazing,
so
just
just
off
the
top
of
my
head,
I
I'm
curious.
Would
you
consider
you
know
there
in
region
Network
we
talk
about
two
different
main
types
of
credits
or,
like
maybe
I,
would
say
families
of
credits.
It's
probably
the
right
way
to
sort
of
classify
them
as
a
taxonomy.
There's
sort
of
two
families
of
credits
that
we're
thinking
about
one
family
is
outcome,
credits
which
I
think
clearly
are
following
the
commodity
theory
of
money
and
value.
E
Where
there's
an
outcome
that
has
value
for
someone
and
they're
paying
for
it
and
taking
credit
for
it,
and
in
order
to
use
it,
you
sort
of
retire
that
and
that's
the
classic.
For
instance,
carbon
credits,
it's
sort
of
a
car.
It's
this
attempt
to
make
public
goods
kind
of
into
a
commodity,
and
then
the
other
family
of
Eco
credits
that
are
explored
commonly
in
our
community
are
stewardship
credits
where
you're
creating
an
agreement
about
a
specific
stewardship
approach
that
may
or
likely
will
result
in
an
outcome
that
could
be.
E
You
know
I,
guess
commodified
or
turned
into
a
unit
unitized
in
some
way,
but
it
also
might
have
holistic,
intrinsic
value
and
sort
of
represent
a
trust
relationship
or
a
sort
of
is,
would
you
know
I'm
sort
of
thinking
out
loud,
but
do
you
think
those
two
classifications
track
or
match?
Is
it
useful
to
think
about
how
those
two
families
of
Eco
credits
relate
to
these
two
theories.
F
Of
money,
yeah
I,
think
you're
spot
on
there
Gregory.
So
there
there
were
some
monetary
theorists
giving
some
presentations
on
the
kind
of
whole
historical
background
to
all
this,
and
it
really
comes
down
to
commodity-based
credits
or
based
on
an
ownership
Paradigm
when
credit
based
approaches
are
based
on
a
contract,
so
contractual
trust
based
paradigms.
So
so
I
I
think
that's
great.
E
And
are
there
examples
of
these
two
sorts
of
systems?
Because,
because
in
our
world
there
are
like
stewardship
credits,
I
actually
really
love.
This
framing
stewardship
credits
clearly
can
have
a
contract
for
future
rights
to
an
outcome
like
an
option
or
a
convertibility
in
which
a
certain
number
of
those
stewardship
credits
could
convert
into
an
outcome.
Credit.
Are
there
examples
like
that
of
systems
specifically
designed
to
I
know
this
happens
emergently,
because
you
can
trade
like
kind
of
mutual
credit
for
gold,
for
instance,
so
that
you
know
so.
E
F
I
guess
the
the
first
thing
I'd
say
is
that
you
always
need
some
amount
of
liquidity
in
the
system,
because
you're
never
going
to
have
an
absolutely
perfect
balance
across
individuals
or
across
an
entire
economy.
So,
although
there's
a
lot
of
cool
things,
you
can
do
with
these
liquidity
savings
mechanisms.
You
don't
get
to
a
zero
commodity
basis.
You
always
have
some
amount
of
this
kind
of
commodity
backing
in
the
system
to
to
address
imbalances
or
to
address
full
full
participation.
E
Just
in
this
conversation
and
in
what
you
learned
in
Kofi
and
I
know
what
you've
been
holding
recently
just
in
terms
of
thinking
about
how
we're
going
to
as
a
community
be
Reinventing,
regen,
token
economics
and
this
sort
of
analogy
or
relationship
between
Steward
credits
and
outcome,
credits
and
the
need
for
some
amount
of
liquidity
in
a
system,
but
also
the
need
to
have
efficient
credit
clearing,
so
that
people
can
just
trust
each
other
and
get
to
work
and
create
a
functional
economy.
Around
sort
of
shared
interests.
F
D
A
E
Great,
thank
you.
Will
thanks
for
sharing
those
thoughts
and
hey
res
I,
see
you
hopping
on
we're.
We're
actually
I
think
gonna
just
start
wrapping
things
up,
whereas
I
invoked
you
and
your
dgen
economics,
slideshow
from
refi
Summit,
just
want
to
say,
share
a
quick
gratitude.
Rex
do
you
have
any
closing
words:
I
see
you're
off.
C
You
know
you
got
monetary
system,
international
relations
and
you
walk
out
of
there
with
the
Bretton
Woods
system,
of
how
the
world
Works
post,
Breton
woods
and
like
it
sounds
like
the
combination
of
people
you
want.
There
would,
like
you,
know
token
design
economics.
You
know,
like
the
stakeholders.
I
think
it
feels
like
a
Bretton
Woods
of
Eco
tokens
is.
Is
the
term
that
came
to
came
to
mind?
I
could
be
wrong.
That's
all
I
had
to
say.