►
From YouTube: Historic Landmarks Commission 02/07/2019
Description
Historic Landmarks Commission
A
C
A
D
B
A
C
B
A
A
Good
we
can
move
on
at
this
time.
We
would
take
any
comments
from
the
public
about
any
issues
that
are
not
on
the
docket
for
our
Commission
meeting
tonight.
I
see
no
comment
cards
for
general,
so
in
that
case
we
can
move
directly
into
the
public
hearing
for
the
twin
home
development
at
approximately
five
seventy
eight
and
six
ten
North
West
Capitol
Street
and
our
our
own
famous
Carl
will
present
to
us.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Jim.
J
Okay
before
you
this
evening,
we
have
a
revised
set
of
proposals
following
our
discussion
in
January
and
I
was
endeavoring
to
itemize
the
issues
raised
at
that
meeting
and
the
staff
report
that
you
have
and
also
identifying
where
additional
information
and
revisions
have
been
made
towards
the
end
of
that
staff
report
under
key
issues.
Key
considerations,
the
only
change
to
the
agenda
wording
here
is
effectively
that
there
have
been
some
minor
revisions
to
the
special
exceptions
sought
now
I'm
not
going
to
those
in
detail
because
we'll
get
back
to
those
and
some
greater
detail
shortly.
G
A
A
A
B
J
And
briefly,
recent
background:
there's
an
Elsi
work
session
on
this
particular
proposal
in
January
18
for
a
14
unit,
7
unit
building
and
a
private
drive.
That
was
proof
of
the
Planning
Commission.
What's
before
you
was
what
we
reviewed
in
January
with
significant
series
of
revisions
since
that
meeting,
that's
for
12
units
and
six
buildings.
J
I
wanted
to
do
here
briefly
was
run
through
a
series
of
fairly
recent
photographs,
the
site
and
somebody
actually
very
aptly
made
the
point.
Photographs
weren't
terribly
useful,
the
last
time
run
and
then
I
wanted
to
actually
focus
on
the
new
application
material
in
relation
to
the
issues
we
discussed
previously
and
there
any
changes
have
been
in
relation
to
those
discussion
points.
J
Moving
on
to
Darwin,
your
staff
report,
I
think,
has
some
photographs
of
the
the
west
side
of
West
Capitol
as
well
for
information,
Darwin,
looking
south
and
then
moving
north
Krauss.
What
is
effectively
an
extensive
open
site,
looking
westward
a
northward,
the
key
considerations
we
identified
previously
and
as
I
oughta
in
your
staff
report,
I
organized
around
principle
headings
in
our
new
construction
application.
Information
first
was
a
focus
on
context
plan
which
effectively
includes
a
site
in
landscape
plan.
I'll,
come
to
that.
J
J
J
The
contacts
the
site
plan
that
you
now
have
with
these
latest
revisions
identifies
both
property
lines
and
building
footprints
in
some
detail.
It
also
pulls
in
the
existing
settlement
pattern,
which
I
think
is
useful
in
relation
to
identifying
compatibility
of
this
proposal
and
its
context
identifies
adjacent
streets
and
all
of
the
proposed
access
driveways.
For
this
proposal.
J
It
now
includes
much
more
detail
on
pedestrian
walkways
and
paths
across
the
proposed
site.
Points
to
note
actually
within
the
context
and
the
site
plan
are
in
particular
on
West
Capitol
Street.
The
location
of
the
garages
has
been
moved
to
the
rear
of
each
of
the
units
in
each
case,
using
a
shared
drive
to
get
to
those
gesture
phones,
garage
spaces.
That
addresses
specifically
a
point
at
the
last
meeting
and
our
discussion
and
then
on
Darwin
the
street.
J
Just
as
a
reminder
from
the
previous
proposals
we
discussed
in
January,
this
is
the
previous
plan
showing
the
buildings
in
context,
and
this
is
the
current
and
revised
site
plan
showing
again
the
proposals
in
context.
There
are
a
series
of
revisions
here
which
I
will
come
to
again
a
slightly
greater
detail,
but
you
can
see
the
garage
location,
relocation
on
the
West,
Capitol
properties.
J
It
defines
the
established
grade.
We
had
some
discussion
on
what
grade
we
were
working
to
and
since
then
that
has
been
agreed
between
the
applicants
in
the
city,
as
per
discussion
points
previously
raised
and
its
its
name,
both
as
established
grade
and
also
a
existing
grade
on
the
current
set
of
plans.
So
all
of
the
special
exceptions
for
building
height
and
wall
height
are
defined
through
to
what
I
think
we're
happy
as
being
currently
defined
as
established
grade.
J
The
plans
here
also
includes
section
lines:
the
general
one
through
the
entire
site
and
then
individual
section
lines
through
each
of
their
performance.
Buildings
I'll
come
to
those
gannets
greater
detail,
and
it
includes
a
lot
of
patterns
and
the
associated
building
configurations,
defining
a
lot
boundaries
and
also
the
setbacks
again.
That
was
a
point
that
we
needed
to
add
to
I.
Think
in
terms
of
previous
discussions.
J
Access
drives
and
walkways
are
all
fairly
clearly
pulled
out.
I
think
in
these.
In
this
current
set
of
plans
on
each
of
the
individual
building
plan
sets
the
building
coverage
for
each
lot
is
also
identified
and
also
the
grade
changes
can
be
defined
to
an
extent
from
the
section
lines
running
through
the
both
the
elevations
and
also
the
sections
through
each
of
those
lots
and
buildings
included
within
the
overall
plan.
J
There
is
indication
of
proposed
hard,
scape
and
soft
landscape
and
those
are
further
amplified
in
the
detailed
plans
for
each
lot
coming
back
to
the
principle
plan
again
and
then
the
main
section
through
the
site
and
a
typical
section
line
through
one
of
the
buildings
which
in
this
case
is
a
lot
five
everything
showing
the
relationship
with
existing
and
between
darman's
Street
and
West
Capitol.
In
terms
of
the
principle
section
moving
on
to
designer
materials,
there
have
been
some
building
design
revisions
since
our
previous
discussions,
I
will
go
into
those
in
some
detail.
J
I
will
leave
it
to
the
applicants
to
amplify
some
of
those
points
as
well.
There
is
a
fairly
strong
articulation
achieved
within
most
of
the
overall
building
designs,
and
so
those
tend
to
be
accentuated
by
mental
changes
and
materials.
Both
in
terms
of
lateral
changes
and
also
floor
level
changes
vertical
changes
again.
The
building
massing
varies
with
the
slope
they.
The
applicants
had
previously
achieved
that
there
has
been
some
attention
paid
to
reducing
some
of
the
special
exceptions
required
for
building
height
and
wall
height,
which
I've
come
to
again
shortly.
J
Garage
locations
was
a
point
identified
by
several
members
of
the
Commission
when
we
last
met
rear
garages
now
on
West
Capitol,
there's
no
no
garages
facing
the
street,
and
some
consideration
has
been
given
to
the
arrangement
formal
arrangement
I
think
in
a
symmetrical
pattern
of
the
garages
on
Darwin
stream.
There
have
been
fenestration
revisions
in
terms
of
the
overall
design
approach.
As
far
as
the
architecture
is
concerned
and
I
think
it's
probably
fair
to
say
that
the
palette
of
materials
draws
a
fair
amount
of
inspiration
from
its
context
here.
J
And
moving
from
there
to
the
first
of
the
building
plans,
this
is
I'll
deal
with
Darmon
Street,
first
of
all
and
I'll
briefly
counter
through
these.
But
things
to
bear
in
mind
as
I
go
through.
Are
that
each
of
the
site
plans
for
each
of
the
individual
Lots
of
joint
Lots
include
breakdown
and
the
setbacks
required
and
the
top
left
of
the
of
those
drawings
in
tables
and
those
special
exceptions
sought
are
also
collated
in
an
overall
matrix
as
part
of
the
written
narrative
to
the
overall
application.
J
J
J
Moving
to
West
Capitol,
some
discussion
previously
in
terms
of
a
sort
of
the
impact
of
the
proposals
in
relation
to
immediately
adjacent
buildings
and
also
raised
by
neighbors.
In
that
context,
I
anticipate
the
applicant
will
speak
to
this
and
some
detail
as
well.
But
my
understanding
is
that
part
of
the
changes,
the
revisions
that
have
taken
place
here
are
in
terms
of
lots,
one
and
two
condition
by
some
of
the
geological
constraints
on
building
placement
within
those
that
part
of
the
site.
J
J
J
What
it
does
now
effectively
with
a
slight
change
in
the
placement
of
building
two,
which
is
moved
back
about
three
feet,
is
to
create
a
front
shared
court
space
which
also
provides
for
front
facing
porches
on
both
buildings.
There
is
also
a
shared
access.
Drive
two
rear
garages
briefly
run
through
those
drawings.
J
That's
the
site
plan
exceptions
sought
here
fairly
minimal,
no
exceptions
sought
for
height
on
lot,
one
building
one,
but
a
slight
exception
sought
matter
of
a
few
inches
on
this
side,
yard
setback
and
then
I
think
there's
a
slight
height
exception.
Sought
on
building
to
the
building
plans
for
both
of
those
buildings,
lots
one
and
two,
and
the
elevations
has
currently
proposed
section
lines
that
are
useful
in
the
context
of
defining
where
the
proposals
sit
in
relation
to
the
sr1.
A
zoning
Maxim's.
J
Well,
West
Capitol
lots,
11
and
12
building
11
is
moved
back,
something
similar
26
feet,
9
inches
reduced
in
height,
so
there's
no
special
exception
sought
again
creating
a
front
shared
court
space
with
front-facing
porches
side
yard.
Setback
sought
here
again,
as
this
requires
a
slight
exception
of
11
inches
or
so
for
building
11
building
12
has
been
moved
back
since
you
previously
saw
the
layout
3
feet.
9
inches
also
reduced
in
height,
requires
now
one
foot
special
exception
for
that
particular
building.
J
Again,
hide
exception,
just
saw
it
for
building
12
and
a
rendering
of
that
particular
proposal,
and
then
I've
also
included
a
slight
correction
here.
This
is
not
this
titled
lot,
1
&
2.
It's
actually
a
lot
11
and
12.
It's
the
previous
layout
here
to
draw
attention
to
the
changes
in
the
context
of
West
Capitol.
The
changes
are
similar
for
both
of
those
sites.
J
J
As
you
will
see
in
the
current
proposal.
On
the
right
hand,
side
I
would
also
say
at
this
point
that
the
front
yard
setbacks
which
are
identified
I
think
by
are
in
the
application
materials
as
requiring
a
special
exception
staff
would
conclude
that
they
don't
really
because,
once
you
start
measuring
out
the
proposals
as
they
stand,
even
with
these
changes,
the
average
they
tend
to
meet
the
average
setback
of
buildings
along
that
frontage,
on
West
Capitol
and
also
on
Darmon
Street.
J
So
briefly,
getting
back
to
special
exceptions
running
through
those
front
setbacks.
Staff
concludes
wouldn't
be
required.
Side
set,
bikes
are
itemized
in
your
application
materials
in
detail
in
the
individual
plans
and
then,
and
they
collated
in
the
overall
table.
Building
heights.
Similarly
are
itemized.
Some
of
those
has
been
reduced
since
the
last
proposal
set
wall
heights.
Similarly,
building
coverage
does
not
require
a
special
exception
approval.
A
B
D
I
want
to
thank
Carl
for
a
continued
effort
and
endeavor,
and
what
we're
doing
here
and
I
appreciate
your
time.
Mr.
commissioner
and
commissioners.
Thank
you
for
your
time
tonight.
I'm
glad
it's
tonight,
and
not
yesterday
when
the
whole
city
was
shut
down,
I
would
have
I
would
have
been
made
us
one
for
three
on
attempts
to
be
here
so
I'm
glad
that
was
yesterday.
I
want
to
start
by
apologizing
profusely
for
the
confusion
that
I
caused.
Last
time.
D
As
you
can
see
the
established
grade,
which
is
the
great
of
this
site,
with
the
exception
of
a
couch
and
some
other
debris
that
I
think
has
been
dropped
off
there
in
the
last
six
months.
It
is
the
grade
as
we
purchased
the
property
as
it
is
established
as
this,
as
defined
in
the
city
code.
What
you
see
is
that
that
helped
us
in
several
instances,
with
the
height
in
conjunction
with
some
of
the
redesign
I,
also
want
to.
Thank
you
for
your
input.
We
still
believe
that
this
plan
is
a
far
greater
plan.
D
Then
we
came
to
you
with
a
year-plus
ago
and
we
also
believe
it's
a
better
plan
than
we
even
came
to
you
with
a
month
ago.
I
know
there
are
going
to
be
some
neighbors
that
might
express
some
concerns,
because
there
are
some
things
that
are
slightly
different
here
than
maybe
what
have
we've
seen
or
talked
about,
and
I'm
going
to
try
to
address
will
try
to
address
those
I'm.
So
computer
illiterate
there
we
go.
D
You
know
where
the
site
is
and
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
all
the
stuff
that
we
went
through
last
time.
I
think
Carl
did
a
fantastic
job,
but
what
I
am
going
to
start
with?
Is
this
this
plan,
so
we
paid
and
I'm
going
to
call
your
attention
to
really
three
or
four
areas
that
we
heard
from
the
Commission
and
really
wanted
to
pay
special
attention
to,
as
we
looked
at
revising
and
reworking
this
plan.
D
D
Think
a
request
of
a
nine
foot
height
exception
down
to
a
six
foot
height
exception,
changed
a
request
of
what
would
have
been
a
wall
height
of
over
twenty
feet,
I
think
down
now
at
a
17
or
18
feet,
just
barely
over
that
16
foot
height
and
then
concurrently
the
same
with
lot
four
and
not
five,
by
bringing
a
driveway
down
here.
It
allowed
us
to
lower
these.
The
other,
really
big
detail
that
you
will
see,
and
we
spent
quite
a
mountain
time
and
focused
our
attention
on
this.
D
We
heard
from
the
Commission
last
time
one
translucent
or
transparent,
compared
to
Oh
peg
garage
doors.
We
also
heard
the
massing
of
a
double
car
garage
door
compared
to
maybe
a
couple
single
car
garage
doors,
and
we
also
heard
the
concern
that
there
was
no
entry
points
as
far
as
pedestrian
access
points
into
the
homes
on
Darwin,
with
the
exception
of
going
down
into
the
legible
path,
and
so,
as
you
saw
and
I'll
show
you
in
another
rendering
really
what
we've
done
in
breaking
the
garage
and
pushing
the
garage
back.
D
D
We
have
very
illegible,
landscaping,
lighting
and
access
to
that,
and
then
we
have
those
up
on
the
up
on
Darwin
and
then,
as
it
relates
to
West
Capitol
concerns
expressed
about
garage
door,
Plains
being
the
most
visible
thing,
a
lack
of
some
entry
focal
points
on
West
Capitol,
and
so
we
really
spent
the
most
time
focusing
on
lot.
1
and
2,
11
and
12,
and
these
plans
went
through
a
complete
redesign
that
changed
the
the
layout
of
the
home.
D
One
of
the
things
that
that
did
do
and
Carl
mentioned
it
and
and
there's
a
couple
of
reasons
that
all
all
address,
but
one
of
the
things
that
did
do
is
it
did
push
lot
one
home
further.
Back,
as
we
looked
at
the
overall
context,
the
overall
setbacks
along
West
Capitol.
We
actually
one
felt
that
sliding
the
home
and
keeping
the
home
further
east
tied
in
better
to
the
home,
to
the
to
the
immediately
to
the
north.
D
As
Carl
mentioned,
it
created
the
this
kind
of
common
front
yard
landscape
area
which
elevated
up
on
that
street,
we
think
will
be
a
phenomenal
feature
to
the
street,
but
equally
as
important
as
we
brought
that
home
further
west.
The
grade
right
here,
as
you
can
see
in
some
of
the
grade
lines,
we
have
a
fairly
steep
incline
right
straight
from
West
Capitol.
So
the
further
we
brought
that
home
west
I
know
that
it
had
an
advantage
to
mr.
D
Giorgio
who
lives
to
the
north
of
us,
but
we
felt
like
it
had
a
made
a
disadvantage
and
a
drastic
disadvantage
to
the
overall
street.
It
brought
this
home
right
out
kind
of
perched
up
on
top
of
a
hill
made
it
extremely
pronounced
and
it
complicated
an
ability
to
get
the
the
home
to
sit
there
additionally
across
the
site
in
in
our
geo.
D
This
right
here
is
the
one
corner
where
the
bedrock
outcropping
is
at
its
shallowest,
so
getting
into
footings
for
a
two
story
home
and
some
other
things
complicated,
bringing
that
home
as
far
west
as
we
had
originally
hoped
or
intended
to
do.
I
think
Carl
did
a
fantastic
job
outlining
these.
We
on
that
note,
is
in
the
wrong
spot.
I
think
the
thing
that
we
wanted
to
address
a
month
ago
there
were
three
or
four
conditions
in
our
staff
report.
There
were
12
exceptions
for
height
variances.
We've
now
got
six
or
seven.
D
When
you
go
into
the
wall
elevations,
we
had
wall
elevations
that
had
several
of
them
that
had
five
six
seven
eight
nine
feet
and
as
far
as
a
wall
elevation
special
exception
would
have
would
have
gone
now.
The
majority
of
them
are
down
into
three
and
four.
We
do
still
have
a
couple
that
are
six
and
eight
feet,
but,
more
importantly,
there's
there's
less
of
them
today,
as
Carl
mentioned,
then
there
was
in
the
past
and
then
same
with
the
building
height
and
then
same
with
our
with
our
setback.
D
So
previously
there
were
16
setbacks
that
were
requested
and
they
varied
between
5
feet
and
13
feet,
and
we
now
have
a
far
lesser
number
of
of
those
as
you
it's
Carl
outlined
in
his
staff
report.
These
are
so
this
is.
This.
Is
the
elevation
for
lot?
1,
&,
2,
Commissioner,
Richardson
I,
know,
and
we
showed
you
the
one
with
the
porch
last
time
out.
D
Stooped
over
a
garage
I
saw
your
face
when
you
shrilled
I
hope
this
one
speaks
far
more
to
the
historic
character,
the
steps,
the
stoop,
the
walkway
again,
no,
no
drive
access,
no,
no
garage,
fronting
West
Capitol,
so
a
great
deal
was
spent
in
addressing
those.
This
is
a
better
image
through
landscape
and
hard
scape.
This
is
the
door
more
a
far
more
legible
access
with
the
door,
and
then
this
other
one
would
lead
you
to
the
two
doors.
This
one
leads
you
back
over
to
this
door
in
this
twin
home.
D
So
of
the
eight
structure,
eight
homes,
eight
units,
four
structures
on
Darwin-
four
of
them
now
have
front
doors,
legible,
visible
from
Darwin
and
then
the
other
four
we've
even
further
tried
to
make
legible
and
more
pronounced
to
get
down
into
this
common
error,
common
walkway
in
the
design.
If
you
get
into
the
real
details,
you'll
note
that
Russ
created
a
kind
of
a
courtyard
now
in
between
those
two
homes.
So
right
here
would
have
been
the
steps
that
you
come
down
in
between
these
two
homes
created
a
little
courtyard,
a
separate
little
gate.
D
A
little
courtyard
we've
actually
he's
recessed
a
portion
of
that
home
to
give
kind
of
the
presence
of
a
front
porch
or
a
front
stoop
on
those
units.
When
you
come
down
in
between
those
those
homes
themselves,
this
one
kind
of
shows
that
maybe
a
little
bit
better.
So
you
can
see
you
know
a
gated
entry,
a
walkway,
some
of
the
landscaping,
recessed
wall,
roof
overhang
and
then
an
area
where
someone
could
put
a
couple
of
seats
or
a
two-top
table
or
something
and
be
out
and
enjoy
the
the
western
leave
use.
D
This
is
that
same
design,
with
more
of
a
prairie
roof
style,
to
give
some
differentiation
of
roof
slope
and
form
on
Darwin
Street,
but
very
similar
landscape.
We
changed
some
of
the
hardscape
how
that
pattern
is
but
gets
you
into
the
middle
and
they
need
to
get
you
over
to
the
doors
or
get
you
down
to
the
the
walkway
in
between
those
two
units
that
access
there
lot
11
and
12.
We
were
able
to
bring
that
home
or
push
that
home
further
east,
which
the
neighbor
to
the
north
Marc
Milligan
had
asked
for.
D
So
we
were
able
to
accommodate
that
that
request
and
then
again
we
got
the
the
driveways
pulled
to
the
to
the
side.
We
got
a
better
plan
that
denotes
the
easement,
the
separation
between
the
easement
and
the
home.
The
access
and
Carl
alluded
to
that
in
his
his
image.
So
with
that
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions,
we
again
appreciate
the
process
and
an
ability
to
be
here,
but
we
are.
We
are
hopeful
for
a
positive
recommendation
and
an
approval
tonight.
K
K
K
The
the
combined
entry
I
think
that's
very
elegant
and
also
serves
to
panco,
say:
there's
one
stair
one
entrance
to
two
buildings,
it's
kind
of
a
nice
economy
and
but
I
think
that's
going
to
be
very
pleasant.
If
the
question
is
I,
guess
about
raising
the
grade,
is
there
possibility
to
raise
the
grade
there
somewhat
might
require
some
retain
tidge
of
the
driveway
on
the
south.
D
And
I
should
have
I
should
have
clarified
that
so
I
think
that
when
we
were
with
before
you
a
month
ago,
we
outlined
kind
of
the
intent
of
some
of
the
window
window
treatment
window
void.
The
solid
ratios
and
and
Carl's
been
great
on
that,
and
we
would
fully
expect
with
Carl
to
work
through
those
details.
So
we
wanted
to
get
a
good
elevation
of
what
this
looks
like.
Knowing
we've
got
refinement,
particularly
around
some
of
the
window
treatment.
We
think
we've
got
the
roof
pitch
accesses.
G
Significant
improvements
in
terms
of
making
these
homes,
maybe
a
little
bit
more
traditional,
if
you
will,
in
terms
of
their
street,
there's
their
how
they
address
the
street
by
pulling
the
garages
into
the
back
and
but
I
still
think
it
has.
You
know
some
work
to
go
the
lot.
One
also
I
think.
If
I
recall
correctly,
there
was
some
concerns
with
regards
to
the
relationship
to
the
neighbor
to
the
and
you
touched
on
this
just
a
moment
ago:
relationship
of
the
neighbor
to
the
north
I.
B
G
And
I
still
don't
understand,
it's
still
in
schematic.
I
would
look
at
the
the
upper
level
bedroom
I
assume
the
master
bedroom
has
got
some
fairly
sizable
windows
again
very,
very
large
scale,
almost
almost
slider
style
they're
looking
right
toward
that
neighbor's
house
still,
and
it
seems
actually,
as
I
was
looking
at
a
thinking
boy.
Well,
the
the
views
there
perhaps
are
better
in
other
location.
G
G
G
A
A
L
Thank
you
so
Joan
to
Georgia,
so
I
am
the
neighbor
to
the
north.
618
West,
Capitol,
Street
and
I
do
feel
I
have
to
say:
I
am
the
one
that
is
the
most
impact
by
this,
even
though
they
have
changed
the
design
I'm,
not
sure
where
this
rendering
comes
from,
but
in
their
narrative
they
talk
about.
This
is
the
historic
preservation
overlay
zone
purpose
statement
under
number:
two:
the
height
of
a
new
two-story
building
will
integrate
seamlessly
with
adjacent
to
and
three-story
single-family
homes.
L
So
I
am
a
single
single
single
family
home,
so
I'm
that
one-story
home
to
the
north,
and
even
if
you
change
the
windows,
it's
gonna
loom
large,
so
I
just
heard
about,
because
at
the
last
meeting
they
did
talk
about
moving
it
to
the
west,
which
would
be
what
I
would
prefer.
So
my
garden
is
gonna
have
a
great
view
to
the
south,
but
I'm
gonna
be
blocked
and
I
seriously.
L
Don't
know
how
you
would
address
that,
but
it
is
a
fairly
it's
a
very
significant
impact
to
me,
and
just
you
know
when
they
talk
about
in
their
narrative
under
number
two,
the
Third
Point.
You
know
that
they've,
you
know,
move
things
away
from
homes.
Well,
that's
happened
in
every
instance
except
my
home
and
again
you
know
if
you
try
to
mitigate
that
with
maybe
not
putting
windows
as
mr.
L
B
Please
mark
mark
Milligan
at
580
North
I'm
a
lot
north
of
lot.
11
and
I
appreciate
that
the
building
is
pushed
back
they're
asking
to
be
11
inches
closer
to
my
property
line,
but
I
would
prefer
them
the
11
inches
closer
to
my
property
line
and
pushed
back
then
more
forward
on
the
lot.
They
also
are
asking
for
a
10
inch
height
exception
and
again
the
wall,
that's
10,
inches
too
tall.
B
Is
this
wall
back
here,
and
so
that
is
back
behind
my
house
in
my
backyard,
so
I
would
prefer
that
than
a
more
massive
structure
that
was
further
forward
on
the
lot.
The
details
of
the
drawings
I,
don't
think,
are
there
yet,
but
the
massing
of
the
building
I
appreciate
that
it
steps
back
as
it
goes
up
into
the
hill.
So
this
is
going
to
be
a
very
tall
building
because
it's
pushed
back
on
the
lot
as
far
as
the
elevation
of
the
roof,
but
it
does
step
back
which
I
hope
will
mitigate
it.
B
It
won't
look
like
one
massive
Tower,
I
hope
the
way
it
stepped
back
so
I
appreciate
those
things
overall,
I'm
happy
with
the
garages
being
moved
to
the
back
as
well,
I
mean
in
an
ideal
world.
It
wouldn't
be
any
closer
than
it
can
be
or
any
taller,
but
I'm
happy
enough,
as
it
is
one
other
things
somebody
talked
about
when
the
commissioners
the
front
grade.
Something
to
consider
from
my
back
patio
to
the
right-of-way
to
the
apartment.
B
Building
is
down
hill,
that
used
to
be
a
gulley
before
the
apartment
building
was
built,
and
so,
although
you
drive
downhill
to
the
north
on
West
Capitol
from
my
lot
to
the
neighbors
lot
is
downhill
in
the
opposite
direction
because
of
that
gully
that
used
to
be
there.
So
any
grading,
I
hope
that
would
consider
my
drainage
off
my
patio
and
how
that
would
be
affected.
I
think
that
was
all
I
had.
Thank
you.
Thank.
M
How
are
you
Steve,
Boynton
I,
live
at
633,
North,
Victory
Road,
which
you
might
think
is
Darwin,
but
it's
Victory,
Road,
actually
I'm
on
the
property,
just
north
of
Lot,
three
there's
a
couple
I.
First
of
all,
I'm,
probably
the
I'm
happy
for
this.
This
project,
because
I'm
tired
of
living
next
to
a
garbage
dump
I
mean
every
every
weekend.
M
I
have
to
go
pick
up
all
the
garbage,
all
the
bottles,
all
the
beer
cans,
all
the
condoms,
all
the
syringes,
all
the
stuff
that's
been
there
and
you
know
I'm,
tired
of
doing
that
so
I'm
thrilled
for
the
project
also,
since
I've
lived
there
since
1982
I've
seen
two
brushfires
in
that
property.
So
you
know
and
I've
said:
we've
had
one
death
in
that
property
and
just
three
weeks
ago,
I.
Don't
think
if
anyone
knows,
but
you
know,
I
found
a
person
who
had
committed
suicide
in
that
lot.
M
M
F
Frankly,
Kennelly
fight
north,
while
right
now
Walt
West,
Capitol
Street.
First
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
the
the
Commissioner.
He
did
a
nice
job.
You
asked
more
questions
in
the
last
three
meetings
and
the
Planning
Commission
did
and
they
passed
that
abomination.
So
we're
grateful
that
we
moved
bumpy
on
that
Ring
Road.
Has
we
called
it?
So
thank
you
for
that.
Well,
we're
also
thankful
grateful
to
the
developer
for
spending
so
much
time
on
that.
F
We're
hopeful
that
if
it
passes
tonight,
the
receptions
are
granted,
they
could
work
with
our
neighborhood
neighbor
Joan
and
maybe
adjusting
some
of
the
issues
that
she
has
I.
Don't
over
lawyer
this
the
question
I
hacked
is
we
support
what's
happening
here.
The
sensitivity
in
many
ways
to
what's
going
on
in
the
neighborhood
and
historic
nature
and
I've
was
interesting.
That
dustin's
talked
about
how
we
referred
to
my
wife's
document.
We
filed
a
very
large
objection
to
the
Planning
Commission.
He
used
that
in
some
of
the
developments,
so
we
appreciated.
That
is
this.
F
Maybe
the
lawyer
in
me.
The
condition
I
want
to
make
sure
that
somehow
the
neighbors
are
kept
apprised
of
any
of
these
minor
details,
and
things
like
that
so
but
I
want
to
make
sure
there's
either
a
chance
to
have
a
discussion
because
a
lot
of
stuff
we
lack
of
the
staff,
has
done
over
the
years,
but
sometimes
we
haven't
liked
and
it's
what
makes
sure
that
the
neighborhood
is
kept
apprised
of
that
and
we
don't
lose
any
rights
of
Appeal
and
things
like
that.
Both
Bruce
and
I
had
that.
F
But
we
are
encouraged
what
the
Commission
has
done
and
we're
a
very
appreciative
of
the
all
the
effort
that
the
developers
putting
towards
this
to
make
sure
that
it
not
just
complies
with
some
of
the
concerns
that
you
have,
but
so
the
concerns
that
we
have
addressed-
and
hopefully
they
can
some
of
the
other
issues
raised
by
neighbors-
can
also
be
addressed
and
I
appreciate.
My
neighborhood
mentioned
the
fact
that
our
house
is
recipient
of
a
bunch
of
water,
and
maybe
they
can
address
that
too.
N
Thank
you.
So
we
are
the
owners
of
598
Northwest,
Capitol
Street
next
to
lot
1
&
2,
but
particularly
right
next,
to
I.
I
too,
want
to
thank
the
Commission
for
everything
you're
doing
to
work
through
things
with
the
neighborhood
and
I
echo.
What
the
developer
said.
We've
come
a
long
ways
in
a
year.
It's
a
credit
to
the
developers.
They've
been
willing
to
sit
down
with
us.
You've
been
willing
to
listen
and
we've
had
people
that
have
kind
of
led
some
of
the
issues.
N
One
of
the
items
I
I've
reached
out
to
Dustin
and
I'm
hoping
we
can
meet
and
continue
to
talk.
One
of
the
items
I
would
maybe
point
out
to
the
Commission
and
the
developers
is
that
when
you
look
at
the
design
for
a
lot,
1
&
2
&
a
lot
11
and
12,
it's
exactly
the
same.
Townhome,
design
and
and
I
understand
the
reason
for
that
I
do
I
do
want
to
put
one
other
suggestion
out
and
maybe
present
it.
N
When
you
look
to
the
left,
where
Jones
garages
and
then
George
doors
or
Jones
house-
and
then
you
get
into
Larry's
house
and
you
get
into
Steve's
house
and
then
if
you
were
to
go
over
there's
more,
those
were
polygamists
homes
built
up
the
hill
right,
the
first
one
was
built,
then
the
plugins
home
behind
and
the
one
behind.
So
there
is
a
little
bit
of
a
precedent
for
the
ability
to
maybe
have
that
twin
home
does
I
might
be
a
little
bit
different
and
I'm.
N
Just
presenting
this
for
a
reason,
is
there
a
way
to
pull
the
front
of
that
home
further
down
again,
the
one
next
to
Jones
is
er
Gio's
home
and
maybe
have
the
roof
of
the
garage
a
little
bit
lower
and
then
then
the
garage
goes
next
to
it.
So
you've
got
two
garages
and
it's
still
using
that
one
driveway
and
then
the
house
is
next
to
that
garage.
N
So
you've
you've
stepped
it
up
the
hill,
with
the
height
the
same
as
the
the
items
next
door,
so
I
don't
know
any
other
way
to
present
it,
but
you
wouldn't
you'd,
be
stepping
it
up.
The
hill,
with
the
height
of
the
roofs,
the
same
as
that's
going
up,
I,
don't
know
if
that
addresses
our
neighbour
Jones
question,
but
maybe
it
doesn't
require
any
more
excavation
for
a
driveway,
and
maybe
it
meets
that
historic
nature.
Of
that.
The
other
thing
I
would
point
out.
As
someone
who's
lived
on
that
street
for
30
years.
N
The
thing
is
you
start
to
value
on
that
Street,
it's
a
Southern,
Sun
and
and
every
every
single
one
like
if
you
see
mark
Mulligan's
homey
he's
got
this
patio
to
the
south
and
I'm,
not
speaking
for
him,
but
that
was
might
be
one
of
the
reasons
he
was
looking
for
that
home
to
me
moved
back.
Our
neighbor
Bruce
he's
got
this
this
patio,
that's
next
to
his
driveway.
We
have
a
patio
on
the
south
side
of
our
house.
N
You
start
to
kind
of
value
that
Southern
Sun
and
the
only
reason
I'm
saying
that
is
that
might
give
each
one
of
those
homes.
If
one
wasn't
right
next
to
it,
they
get
a
little
bit
of
this
Southern
ability
to
walk
out
from
their
home.
Maybe
you
know
maybe
you're.
It's
your
living
room
and
your
kitchen
and
you're
walking
out
to
that
space.
So
it's
just
an
idea
from
someone.
Who's
lived
there
for
30
years,
good.
All.
E
H
E
And
then
I
had
one
other
question.
I
think
I'll
just
say:
I.
Think
the
answer
to
Part
B
of
Frank's
question
is
that
there
is
not
further
public
notice,
no
yeah,
even
for
the
subdivision,
for
the
items
that
have
been
deferred
to
staff,
so
you
would
there
would
not
be
in
another
round
of
hey.
This
is
what
staff
decided
correct
right.
H
E
H
F
H
A
D
Yeah,
just
a
couple
of
kind
of
closing
thoughts
are
common,
so
one
we
did
explore
and
then
I
Darcy
didn't
draw
it.
Miss
Dixon
didn't
draw
it
out
so
I'm,
not
quite
sure,
but
I
think
we
explored
something
fairly
close
to
what
she
was
talking
about
and
trying
to
get
a
lot
to
to
move
further
east
up
the
hill,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
ran
into
is
the
without
lot
frontage
or
depending
on
how
that
home
faced
it
put
us
back
into
the
PUD
process.
D
And
if
it's
to
the
side
of
the
drive,
it
doesn't
front
onto
a
public
right-of-way
which
triggers
the
PD
process.
So
we
did
try
and
kind
of
think
through
that,
and
it
was
just.
How
does
that?
How
does
that
home
fill
I?
Think
there
are
certain
things
that
we
can
address
with
the
neighbor
in
in
landscaping
and
some
of
that
kind
of
fine
tuning
and
tweaking
and
in
with
respect
to
Frank's
question
I.
Think
that
bye-bye,
we
believe
that
we
can
be
reasonable
people.
D
We
hope
that
we've
shown
that
process
by
what
we've
been
through
and
so
I
think
what
we
would
would
say
is
if
we
can
flush
out
any
of
those
minor
details.
If
there's
something
that
between
staff,
our
group
and
maybe
a
neighbor
has
concerns
about
that.
We
just
can't
get
over
I,
don't
know
that
we
to
be
opposed
to
coming
back
to
you
as
an
appellant
body,
instead
of
an
actual
appeal
or
a
an
appeal
of
a
decision,
and
it
let
it
be
a
judge.
D
So
I
say
that
recognizing
that
Commissioner
Richards
comment
last
time
that
a
committee
designing
a
horse
will
give
you
a
camel.
So
I
say
that,
with
with
that
in
mind,
but
I
think
we've
we've
gone
through
the
process
showing
that
we're
a
menial
or
workable.
We
want
to
fine-tune
and
refine
those
things
so
with
that.
Unless
there's
any
other
questions
for
me,
I
would
thank
you
again
for
your
time.
Yeah.
A
D
We
didn't
have
the
home
has
pushed
as
far
west.
We
told
you
in
our
meeting
last
time
that
we
would
agree
to
try
and
explore
pushing
it
further
west
and
when
we
really
explored
pushing
it
further
west
in
engineering
and
in
looking
at
the
geotechnical
over
the
last
month.
That's
when
that
arose
so
the
home.
If
you
look
at
that
design,
we
ended
up
we're
probably
12
feet,
14
feet
further
east
and
part
of
that
is
in
looking
at
her
garden,
and
she
talked
about
her
garden.
D
Having
a
great
view,
part
of
it
was
mirroring
that
that
front
yard
level,
if
you
will
so
her
garden,
this
common
area,
front
yard.
If
you
will
married
at
the
same
plane
kind
of
same
grade,
her
garage
is
at
the
north
side
of
her
her
lot,
and
so
that's
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we
looked
at
for
the
historic
context.
So
we
did,
we
did
end
up.
We
did
not
end
up
bringing
the
home.
D
K
B
A
I
Chair
as
a
point
of
clarification
for
those
who
questioned
about
the
noticing
for
subdivision,
there
would
be
noticing
whether
it's
an
administrative
or
Planning
Commission
decision,
so
neighbors
would
receive
a
notice
for
the
any
subdivision
application
that
comes,
but
there's
not
necessarily
public
hearing,
depending
on
what
gets
submitted
and
how
that
is
processed.
Thank.
A
E
G
E
B
C
E
J
My
understanding
of
what's
being
requested
at
this
point
in
time,
is
that
in
a
second
and
focus
on
this,
the
side
yard
setback
on
the
north
side,
the
exception
being
requested
as
10
inches.
On
that
side,
there
is
no
height
variance
required.
No
car,
no
height
exception
there
being
required
on
that
one.
The
heights
been
reduced
on
lot
number
two:
there
is
a
height
exception,
request
of
1
foot,
2
inches
and
then
there's
an
extremely
extensive
side
yard
set
by
proposed
on
on
that
side.
B
J
K
Obviously,
there's
been
a
lot
of
progress
and-
and
we
seem
to
pretty
much
be
focused
on
that
north
property
line-
it
it
maybe
and
I
think
I'm
confident
are
comfortable
with
delegating
that
further
exploration.
There
are
some
issues
there
are
some
concerns
expressed,
but
delegating
that
to
staff
with
the
understanding
obviously
will
refine
the
recommendations
to
clarify
those.
But
staff
could
always
say
things
are
a
little
bit
have
gotten
a
little
bit
crazy
with
whatever.
K
A
K
K
B
J
A
A
A
G
I
think
the
concern
would
be
that
it's
out
of
the
norm
and
every
time
you
go
outside
the
norm,
you
risk
not
fulfilling
the
expectations
personally,
I
I
just
think
I
think
it's
a
I
think
it's
a
pret
I
think
it's
a
dangerous
precedent.
We're
setting
first
off
I
mean
I,
get
the
I
agree
with
the
sentiment,
but
I
think
it's
a
dangerous
precedent,
we're
setting
long
term
but
also
I.
Think
it's
a
dangerous
in
that.
A
A
G
Well,
you
know
one
question
I've
had
and
it
may
it
was
a
question.
I
may
have
maybe
more
appropriately
asked
the
applicant,
but
you
know
to
ten
inches
into
the
side
yard
setback,
although
it
may
not
address
all
of
the
neighbors
to
the
north
issues
concerns,
but
you
know
it
does.
If,
if
the
applicant
we're
able
to
you
know,
shift
it
ten
feet
to
the
south,
what
issues
does
it
create?
Can
that
just
simply
take
that
at
that
request,
for
a
special
exception
associated
with
a
lot
one
entirely
away.
B
A
K
Canton,
like
I,
think
I'm
just
looking
at
the
North
elevation,
they
have
a
dimensioned
wall.
Height
weight
I
want
to
make
sure
I'm
the
right
one,
yeah
1
&
2
of
19
feet
at
that
at
that
location.
So
it
appears
that
they
are
needing
a
side.
Wall
height
exceptions
that
rise
at
16
feet.
What
page
were
you
look
at
I'm
on
1,
&,
2,
c1,.
K
A
E
Got
maybe
to
try
and
I
don't
know
if
that's
gonna
get
us
out
of
the
weeds
or
not,
but
to
me
my
take
on
all
this
is
that
the
historic
guidelines
have
been
met
essentially,
I
feel
good
about
the
design
and
that
the
issue
were
grappling
with
have
to
do
with
a
couple
of
criteria
that
come
with
respect
to
the
special
exceptions,
particularly
impairment
of
property,
value
and
I.
Think
there's
one
other,
that's
that,
and
that
seems
to
be
what
what
would
be
the
basis
for
considering
the
neighbors
concerns
here
and
it's.
E
K
B
Cko
I'm
gonna,
piggyback
on
what
Paul's
said.
This
seems
like
there's
a
lot
Louie
that
has
been
covered
already
and
they've
spent
a
lot
of
time
kind
of
changing
things
and
to
fit
every
criteria
to
fit
what
everyone
wants.
But
we
can't
fix
everything
and
I
would
rather
move
that
they
just
move
on
and
I
know
that
the
the
neighbors
have
their
concerns.
B
C
Give
you
a
third
further
comment:
I.
What
I
really
liked
about
this
project
is
that
it
keeps
getting
better
it
really.
Every
time
it's
come
to
us
has
been
better
and
the
focus.
Certainly
on
West
Capitol
designs,
there
have
been
wonderful.
We
no
longer
have
a
garage
barrage
in
a
neighborhood
that
doesn't
have
garages
and
I.
Also
like
the
more
contemporary
designs,
there's
less
of
a
false
sense
of
history
here
than
there
was
some
of
the
earlier
designs.
C
B
G
In
the
case
of
PLN
H
LCC
2017
0
0,
9,
6,
9
twin
home
development
at
approximately
578
610
Northwest
Northwest
Capitol
Street,
that
the
Commission
approve
the
staff
recommendations
that,
with
the
following
notations,
that
the
staff
continued
to
work
with
the
developer
to
work
out,
details
relative
to
grading
and
the
approaches
to
the
building
on
Northwest
capital
that
the
details
relative
to
exact
site
placement
of
buildings,
1
&
2,
our
Lots
1
&
2.
To
minimize
the
request
or
eliminate
the
request
for
that
for
the
site.
A
B
E
B
C
I'm
going
to
second
that
with
the
observation
that,
in
these
special
exceptions,
the
the
two
special
exceptions
that
are
relatively
deep,
which
are
a
lot
three
and
four,
the
height
of
4
feet
and
10
feet:
excess
height,
both
those
Lots
really
are
have
not
been
part
of
our
conversation
area
that
the
issues
are
more
related
to
West
Capitol
than
to
these
lots,
which
are
really
on
Darwin
and
I'll.
Second,
the
motion
can.
C
H
Mr.
chair
on
that
motion,
the
motion
was
to
approve
consistent
with
the
staff
report.
I
don't
want
to
get
overly
technical
here
again,
but
we
are
currently
in
litigation
right
now
over
some
findings
that
were
being
challenged,
and
so
you
we
need
to
have
a
basis
for
the
approval,
not
necessarily
just
consistent
with
staff
recommendations.
But
for
the
reasons
provided
by
staff.
We
adopt
staffs
findings
and
our
decision
is
based
on
that
I'm.
C
B
G
B
B
A
A
A
I
need
to
read
the
appeal
of
historic,
landmark,
Commission
decision.
Anyone
aggrieved
by
the
historic
landmark
Commission's
decision
may
object
the
decision
by
filing
a
written
appeal
with
the
appeals
hearing
officer
within
10
calendar
days
following
the
date
on
which
a
record
of
decision
is
issued.
The
applicant
may
object
to
the
decision
of
the
historic
landmark
Commission
by
filing
a
written
appeal
with
the
appeals
hearing
officer
or
the
mayor
within
30
calendar
days
following
the
date
on
which
a
record
of
decision
is
issued.
Thank
you.
O
O
O
A
O
A
O
So
this
is
a
project
that's
been
going
on
for
a
couple
of
years.
Landmark
design
started
this
by
doing
inventories
of
32
sites
in
the
city,
landscapes
in
the
city
and
started
doing
these
guidelines,
and
now
our
planning
is
finalizing
these
guidelines,
and
today,
I
would
like
to
give
you
an
update
of
where
we
are
with
that.
O
O
O
O
These
guidelines
can
also
be
used
for
projects
outside
the
historic
overlay,
but
they
would
be
used
as
guidelines
and
just
wanna.
You
know
as
I'm
talking
about
a
zoning
ordinance
and
that's
something
that
might
have
to
be
addressed
also
because
right
now,
nor
it
doesn't
really
define
landscapes
or
even
a
you
know,
talk
about
landscapes,
most
of
our.
What
what
or
ordinance
talks
about
is
structures
and
how
it
relates
to
the
site
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
O
So
the
other
thing
that
I
would
like
to
mention
is
that
these
guidelines
are
not
for
yards
associated
with
historic
buildings.
That
is,
you
know.
Those
yards
are
addressed
on
the
residential,
commercial
and
the
other
guidelines,
so
these
are
mostly
for
public
landscapes,
such
as
parts
cemeteries,
the
streetscape.
O
O
O
In
evaluating
a
landscape,
it
is
very
important
to
understand
the
significance
of
that
landscape.
How
how
what?
What
is
the
historic
significance?
What
is
the
period
of
significance
and
the
character
defining
features
that
are
important,
so
I
want
to?
You
know
talk
a
little
bit.
You
know
how
we're
gonna
be
using
the
these
guidelines,
so
the
first
step
when
we
we
have
a
project,
is
to
define
those
things.
O
O
So
once
we
define
that
and
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
the
importance
of
inventories,
because
we
have
we're
trying
to
create
a
database
of
all
the
inventories
for
different
landscapes
in
the
city
there
right
now,
there
are
only
22
of
those
that
are
following
to
the
overlay,
the
historic
overlay.
But
it's
important
to
understand.
O
O
O
O
Landscape
characteristics
that
the
National
Park
Service's
has
created,
and
so
we
have
actually
13
chapters.
We
used
all
the
the
landscape
characteristics
as
it.
You
know
a
chapter
for
each
one,
and
then
we
added
as
streetscapes,
which
you
know,
they're
they're,
they're,
very
they're,
not
really
characteristic,
but
because
of
all
the
requirements
that
are
zoning
ordinance.
And
you
know
it's
a
very
special
kind
of
we
created
that
for
it
for
our
convenience
in
reviewing
streetscapes.
O
These
chapters,
so
the
bulk
of
this
document
is
the
guidelines
there's
some
preface
explaining
how
it's
gonna
be
used,
but
the
bulk
of
it
is
actually
the
guidelines.
So
the
guidelines
like
I,
said
there
are
landscape
characteristics
and
so
there's
a
short
definition
of
what
what
it
is
then
there's
an
example:
sort
of
broad
example.
What
I'm
trying
to
do
is
put
in
also
an
example,
local.
O
You
know
an
example
from
Salt
Lake
City,
so
it's
more
understandable.
Another
component
of
each
of
these
chapters
is
the
design
objective.
So
if
we
can't
find
a
guideline
that
really
applies
to
that
to
that
characteristic
in
those
features,
then
we
have
a
design
objective.
That
sort
of
is
an
umbrella.
Where
you
know
we,
we
understand
what
the
goal
is
and
then.
O
Then
the
third
part
of
each
chapter
is
the
treatment
of
how
what
kind
of
treatment
is
going
to
be
used
and
we
are
using
the
again
what
the
National
Park
Service
has
created
as
far
as
treatments.
So
what
I'm
talking
about
here
is
preservation,
rehabilitation,
restoration,
reconstruction
and
no
false
historicism.
O
O
O
O
Adapt
to
Salt
Lake
City
it
it.
You
know
it's
a
very
a
an
approach
that
it
is
unique
to
Salt,
Lake
City,
so
I
would
like
a
lot
of
feedback.
As
you
read
these
these
guidelines-
and
today
is
you
know,
I'm
trying
to
just
give
you
a
little
bit
of
an
update
of
where
the
these
guidelines
are,
and
but
from
this
point
on
we're
going
to
be
doing
a
lot
of
engagement
and
further
review
with
focus
groups,
interest
groups,
community
councils,
one
thing
that
I
didn't
mention
here
is
also
open
houses.
O
O
Most
of
our
guidelines
and
ordinances
is
been
related
to
structures,
which
is
a
completely
different
beast.
You
know
with
structures
it's
very
set.
It
is
what
it
is
with
a
landscape.
It's
a
living
thing,
so
you
you
need
to
acknowledge
that
there
will
be
changes.
It's
a
living
thing:
it's
it's
gonna,
adapt
it's
gonna
change,
and
so
I
hope
this.
This
is
good
information
I!
You
know.
If
you
have
any
questions
for
me,
that.
A
I
do
this
is
an
interesting
study
and
I'm
curious
trying
to
understand
exactly
how
we'd
apply
this.
You
say
it's
a
guideline
rather
than
a
standard,
so
thinking
about
the
Pioneer
Park
project
we
saw
a
year
or
so
ago.
How
would
you
see
this
being
integrated
into
a
review
and
a
decision-making
process
such
as
we
did
at
the
park.
O
You
know
it's
a
learning
process
and
when
I
did
that
report
to
you
and
if
we
were
not
as
far
into
this
project,
but
what
I
see
you
know
a
report
like
Pioneer
Park,
for
example,
the
first
step
would
be
to
understand
what
are
the
the
significance
of
Pioneer
Park
and
then
understand
those
periods
of
significance
like
I
was
talking
about,
and
then
once
you
understand
that,
then
you
understand
what
the
features
are
that
are
in
that
part.
That
are
significance,
for
example,
that
design
that
that
you
approved
to
be
removed.
O
For
example,
it
was
not
a
significant
feature
of
pinyon
Park.
It
was
a
pretty
recent
feature
that
was
added
to
the
park
and
pioneer
park
has
had
so
many
changes
and
not
of
this.
Not
all
of
those
changes
that
occurred
in
in
Pioneer
Park
have
been
significant
there,
for
example,
that
axes
design.
You
know
with
the
the
bathrooms
right
in
the
middle
that
there
was
not
something
that
was
significant
now
you
know
the
periphery
of
the
trees
that
walkway
like
I,
said
before.
O
That
is
a
design
that
has
been
there
since
the
start
of
Pioneer
Park
and
therefore
it
is
a
more
significant
feature.
So
by
understanding
what
you
know,
then,
then
you
once
you
understand,
what's
significant
about
you
know
a
landscape,
then
you
start
looking
at
those
characteristics.
For
example,
are
there
any
significance
on
the
natural
systems
and
features?
You
know
not
really.
You
know
like,
for
example,
other
parks
in
Salt,
Lake
City,
like
memory
growth,
you
know,
one
of
the
main
features
is
that
the
the
creeks
that
the
water
Pioneer
Park,
you
know.
O
Cultural
traditions
is
another
one,
that's
important,
so
the
part
of
you,
for
example,
is
not
an
issue.
You
know
again
on
pioneer
park
that
that
big
of
a
you
know
vegetation.
There
are
some
significance.
You
know
that
you
know
the
trees
and
the
periphery
again
again
significant.
So
that's
how
you
know
we're
looking
at
reviewing
and
evaluating
these
sites
and
landscapes.
O
K
K
There
are
things
here
that
we're
going
to
borrow
and
apply,
and
hopefully
there's
some
cross-pollination
that
we
can
do
there.
Can
you
give
us
a
rough
schedule
of
the
next
steps?
What
your?
What
your
thinking
is?
I
mean
these.
Are
we
talking
days
weeks,
months
or
years?
You
know
in
this
in
the
what
the
what
the
layout
is,
the
timeline,
and
how
do
you
want
us
to
provide
some
written
comments
back
and
should
they
be
group
comments
or
shared
with
the
group
or
what
what
kind
of
things
anyways
take
those
you.
O
Know,
I
don't
have
dates
right
now.
You
know
as
far
as
I
you
know
we
thought
about.
You
know
having
about
a
six-month
period
where
we
can,
you
know
get
or
less
than
that.
You
know
where
we
can
bring
it
back
to
you
for,
for
after
we
have
had.
You
know,
focus
group
interest
groups,
community
councils.
I
I
There's
still
a
lot
of
iteration
that
will
come
to
this
draft.
There
will
be
graphics
at
it.
I
mean
it's
going
to
change
dramatically
just
in
the
next
three
months.
I
think
one
of
the
big
things
that
we've
learned
as
a
Planning
Division
is
the
concept
of
landscape
and
how
that
is
very
different
than
most
of
our
the
rest
of
our
code
and
how
we
talk
about
living
things.
I
mean
for
the
most
part,
that's
what
we're
talking
about
in
the
landscape,
design,
guidelines
living
things.
I
In
addition
to
you
know
the
more
solid
types
of
things
like
natural
features
and
topography,
and
things
like
that,
but
even
then
there's
still
some
ephemeral
change
and
things
like
that.
They
come
to
that.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
the
guidelines
reflect
that
in
a
very
consistent
way
throughout
and
I
think
we're
still
in
the
process
of
doing
that
and
really
at
the
end
of
the
day.
We
want
it
to
be
a
very
usable
tool.
I
So
when
we
get
to
the
guidelines,
it's
you
know,
what's
the
actual
tool
that
a
planner
would
use
to
evaluate
in
order
to
bring
it
before
this
body
to
be
able
to
say
you
know,
we
went
through
this
checklist
and
you're
there's
more
detailed
information
and
you
know
Appendix
A
or
what
have
you.
But
these
are
the
guidelines
that
that
have
been
applied
to
this
project
or
what
have
you
and
that
would
have
a
very
specific.
K
Think
the
time
line
sort
of
answers,
my
second
half,
if
I
think
just
written
written
responses,
then
I.
There's
lots
of
great
information
in
here
and
I.
Think
there'll
be
some
observations
that
all
of
us
can
have
and
and
I
guess.
That's
probably
the
best
Avenue
in
is
just
write.
Those
to
you
directly.
Yes,.
O
C
O
O
Example,
there
was
an
exercise:
what
do
you
call
an
exercise
yeah,
an
outdoor
that
was
proposed
to
be
added
to
Liberty
Park,
and
so
that's
a
perfect
example
of
you
know
how
this
this
document
could
be
used.
For.
Another
example
is
the
fourth
Avenue.
Well,
that
is,
is
something
that
is
going
we'll
all
come
back
to
this
commission
even
keep.
E
Just
for
a
couple
of
reasons,
I
think
the
goal
behind
them
of
creating
a
mechanism
for
oversight
and
stewardship
of
our
Park
resources,
gathering
community
input
having
us
mechanism
for
public
notice
imposing
some
best
practices.
I
think
those
are
all
such
good
goals,
but
I
think
this
is
gonna,
be
totally
meaningless
and
useless,
and
here's
why
I
have
the
the
top
that
title
of
this
is
the
design
guidelines
for
historic
landscapes
in
Salt,
Lake,
City
and
I.
Think
we
have
almost
none
of
those.
The
only
one
that
I
truly
think
is
truly
historic.
E
Is
the
one
we're
sitting
in
right
now,
all
when
I?
So
let's
take
these
one
by
one
enzyme,
peak
60s,
mini
Park,
City,
Creek,
Park,
almond,
Park,
Columbus,
Park,
Canyon,
Park,
Gallagher,
Park,
cladding,
Park,
silver,
mini
Park
and
ship
part,
then
none
of
those
is
even
remotely
historic.
You
could
scrape
the
whole
thing
as
far
as
I'm
concerned.
You
wouldn't
harm
one
single
historic
resource
honestly
now
should
they
be
compatible
with
the
historic
neighborhood
there
and
yeah,
but
that's
not
what
this
is.
This
is
about.
E
Preserving
historic
landscapes
like
you
would
preserve
at
Versailles,
so
I
think
this
is
way.
Misplaced
and
I.
Think
it's
going
to
result
in
some
seriously
ludicrous
conversations
at
the
historic
landmark
Commission
when
the
parks
department
wants
to
come
and
redo
the
4th
Ave
mini
park
and
we're
going
to
be
applying
historic
guidelines,
it's
going
to
be
ridiculous
now,
the
only
other
thing
I
was
gonna
say
is
about
parks
trips.
That
is
now
really
explicit.
Part
of
the
system
are
perfect.
E
So
I
can
just
see
all
sorts
of
things
that
we
don't
have
anything
to
do
with.
I
took
down
a
really
old
maple
tree
at
my
house.
That's
in
a
park
strip
do
I,
have
to
get
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
To
do
that
now,
my
neighbor
replaced.
What
has
for
all
history
been
a
grass
park
strip
with
a
quite
modern
set
of
rock
work
and
xeriscape?
Does
that
require
a
certificate
of
occupancy?
Are
we
gonna?
What
sort
of
standards
are
we
gonna
apply
for
that
I?
Don't
I,
don't
want
anything
to
do
with
that.
E
What
I
would
suggest,
because
I
really
do
appreciate
that
the
goals
are
valuable.
Is
that
another
body
be
considered
as
the
group
that
should
manage
this?
The
city
has
a
Parks
Advisory
Board
with
some
really
formidable
people
on
it.
I
think
they
would
be
I
would
completely
trust
them
to
do
right
by
Liberty
Park.
E
A
I
think
you
make
some
good
points,
I
guess
it
raises
the
question
of
guideline
versus
standard,
and
if
it's
not
a
standard,
if
it's
a
guideline,
then
where
does
it
fall
in
our
review
process?
If
it's
not
something
enforceable,
how
does
it
become
part
of
the
conversation?
Does
it
become
confusing
and
problematic,
or
is
it
something
that
evolves
into
being
a
standard?
O
O
One
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
be
clear
on
this
document
is
that
you
know,
although
there
are
you
know
a
set,
you
know
a
list
of
22
parks
that
are
in
the
historic
overlay.
Those
will
require
certificate
of
permanence
and
they
do
already,
but
whenever
we
were
making
a
decision,
it's
kind
of
hard
to
make
those
decisions,
because
there
is
nothing
to
base
those
decisions
on
and
and
and
we've
had
issues
where
you
know
their
decisions
of
Pioneer
Park
and
there
will
be
more.
O
There
are
this
document.
What
I
want
to
say
is
that
this
document
can
be
a
guideline
for
other
lands,
capes
that
have
historic
significance,
they're
not
going
to
be
required.
There's
nothing!
You
know
it's
going
to
be
required
of
of
these
sites
that
are
outside
of
like
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
for
example,
of
these
landscapes
that
are
outside
the
historic
overlay,
but
it
you
know,
there's
always
something.
You
know,
for
example,
the.
O
O
It's
a
pit
hole,
not
not
a
big
hole
but
a
place
to
you
know
to
fire
and
in
yes,
so
you
know
so
you
know,
for
example,
the
cemetery.
The
cemetery
is
not
protected
by
any
any
it's
not
in
a
national
district.
It's
not
in
a
local
district.
It's
not
in
the
you
know
the
historic
district,
but
you
know
there's
so
much
history
on
that
cemetery,
and
this
is
just
a
some
sort
of
guideline
to
use
when
there
are
decisions
that
need
to
be
made
for
these
type
of
landscapes.
K
K
What
are
those
significant
character
to
find
features
from
that
period
of
significance,
and
how
does
the
current
proposal
before
us
or
being
considered
by
anybody?
How
did
they
impact
that
so
I
think
it's
that
evaluation.
There
may
be
many
parks
on
this
list
that,
like
I,
said,
don't
have
anything
to
speak
of
to
review
and
that's
a
problem
solved.
K
They
don't
apply
perhaps
and
but
others
I
think,
do
they're
a
little
ephemeral
though
I
think,
and
sometimes
it's
it's
different
and
I
don't
want
to
become
the
the
parking
strip
police
either,
but
we've
had
we've
had
some
of
those.
We
recognize
that
sometimes
the
parking
strip
has
some
impact
to
the
historic
district,
and
so
we've
had
enforcement
cases
of
construction
in
the
parking
strips
that
have
been
problematic
and
some
board
on
some
some
place
in
the
city.
There
needs
to
be
that
enforcement
opportunity
to
address
those
I.
Don't.
A
N
A
Bring
something
in
that
isn't
a
standard
but
they're
gonna
an
applicant
is
going
to
be
judged
on.
You
know
it's
it's
like,
but
we
had
Ozona
will
allow
you
to
be
three
stories
high,
but
I
really
think
it'd
be
better.
If
you
were
just
one
story,
so
I'm
gonna
hold
up
your
application
because,
as
I
don't
think
what
you're
doing
is
right,
I
mean.
What's
the
my.
K
Response
Kent
I
mean
we
have
guidelines
today
for
the
buildings
for
the
various
districts,
I
mean
Karl
spent
how
many
years
working
on
different
guidelines,
they're
they're
the
tool,
the
the
interpretation,
the
the
refinement
or
you
know
the
explanation
of
how
to
address
a
front
porch
or
whatever
it
might
be
in
those
extra
layers.
It's
still
agree.
It
still
goes
back
to
the
standard.
Does
it
does
it
sort
of?
Does
it
clear
it?
Does
that
clear,
clear
that
hurdle
and
if
it
does
it
passes,
I,
think
this.
E
K
E
B
G
E
Agree,
a
man,
I
think
I,
don't
think
really!
That's
I,
don't
know
and
I've
seen
pictures
of
Liberty
Park
where
that
was
not
there,
I
mean
so
I
mean
to
me
this
is
the.
There
are
so
many
good
reasons
to
do
great
stewardship
of
parts.
Historic
preservation
is
not
the
way
to
go.
It's
also,
you
know
it's
well,
it's
it's
some
other
mechanism,
because
I
think
you
could
I'm
gonna
say
something
that
I
could
really
regret.
O
And
it
was
a
great
example
because
there
was
so
much
material
in
that
part.
That
was
not
significant
and
it
was
just
there
to
just
clutter
that
Park.
So
when
the
tornado
came-
and
we
had,
you
know,
create
a
plan,
it
was
determined
what
was
significant
about
that
park
in
which
of
those
monuments
were
significant
and
those
were
preserved.
The
other
stuff
was
taken
away,
I.
K
Think
will
be
useful
in
in
presentations
in
it
in
the
focus
groups
as
well
as
when
you
come
back
here,
obviously
to
take
a
Liberty,
Park
or
something
like
that
and
say
and
to
walk
us
through
the
development
a
little
bit
the
historical
development
of
parks.
Some
of
them
are
modern
creations,
fifty
or
hundred
years
from
now.
That
may
have
historic
significance,
but
it
doesn't
today
and
help
us
help
us
rationalize
the
areas
of
significant
character,
defining
features
what's
important
and
what's
not
important,
let
the
consultant
kind
of
highlight
those
areas
and
say
yeah.
K
E
O
Respond
to
some
of
the
you
know,
your
your
your
comments,
you
know,
I,
you
know
I
completely
understand
that
so
many
of
the
the
the
parks
that
are
in
the
historic
overlay
are
not
really
historic,
they're
just
there
because
they
are
in
the
historic
district,
and
so
you
know
you
know
because
they
are
in
the
historic
district.
But
if
we
follow
that
kind
of
guide,
were
you
know?
So
there
is
no,
you
know
historic
significance.
Then
we
have
a
whole
lot
of
flexibility
there.
O
Anyway,
they
do
anyway,
and
in
in
in
this
document,
is
an
attempt
to
help
you
make
those
decisions
because,
as
as
it
is
right
now,
they
are
part
of
the
historic
district
and
therefore
you
know
it
needs
to
be
reviewed
and
have
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
For
for
something
like
that,
so
it's
just
a
guide.
You
know
something
to
help
you
make.
You
know
a
more
informed
and
consistent
decision
generally.
C
J
A
C
O
A
G
And
but
I
I
mean
and
I
mean
I
agree
that
it
could
be,
you
know,
but
I
think
there
were
structures,
and
then
there
was
discussions
about
anyway.
It
was
unclear
to
me
as
to
whether-
and
it
could
be
clearer
in
terms
of
there
are
lots
and
lots
of
remnant
structures
were
pergolas,
etc
that
are
brand-new
but
again
back
to
a
lot
of
buildings.
G
A
So
I
think,
hopefully,
you've
gotten
some
good
good
feedback
word
to
begin
with,
or
some
items
to
consider
and
certain
we
are,
will
all
look
forward
to
seeing
how
you
proceed
with
this
and
how
you
address
some
of
the
discussion
concerns
we've
had
here,
but
a
good
work
and
keep
at
it
and
keep
us
informed
as
you
go
along.
Please.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
last
thing.
Our
next
regular
meeting
of
the
Commission
is
Thursday
March,
7th
2019.
Hopefully
you
can
all
be
here
and
unless
there's
anything
else,
we
can
shut
her
down
for
the
night.