►
Description
Salt Lake City Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - November 04, 2021
https://www.slc.gov/historic-preservation/
https://www.slc.gov/boards/historic-landmark-commission-agendas-minutes/
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
B
To
tonight's
meeting,
I'm
needing
to
read
this,
I'm
mike
villa
chair
of
the
historic
landmark
commission
hereby
determined
that,
with
the
ongoing
cobit
19
pandemic
conditions
existing
in
salt
lake
county,
including,
but
not
limited
to
the
elevated
number
of
cases,
that
meeting
at
an
anchor
location
presents
a
substantial
risk
to
the
health
and
safety
of
those
who
would
be
present.
B
I
do
not
have
a
report
as
a
chair,
but
this
is
the
first
meeting
that
I
am
conducting
as
chair
and
since
we
do
have
some
new
commissioners
on
the
commission,
I'd
like
to
welcome
everyone
to
this
meeting
and
note
that
the
historic
landmark
commission
is
made
up
of
citizens
of
the
city
who
are
appointed
by
the
mayor,
confirmed
by
the
city
council.
As
commissioners.
We
have
three
primary
objectives.
B
B
Second,
as
a
certified,
local
government
provide
provide
input
to
the
utah
state,
historic
preservation,
office
shippo
regarding
national
register
nominations
within
the
city
and
then
finally,
we're
also
charged
with
reviewing
and
making
decisions
on
land
use
applications
for
properties
that
are
located
within
the
historic
preservation
overlay
district.
This
includes
design
review
of
building
alt
alterations,
demolitions,
economic,
hard
hardship,
requests,
construction
of
new
buildings,
special
exceptions
and
historic
building
relocation.
C
B
D
She
is
not
applying
to
be
reappointed
to
the
landmark
commission,
because
if
you
read
the
paper,
it
looks
like
there's
another
role
at
city
hall
for
victoria
as
a
city,
council
member,
and
we
know
that
that
she
knows
a
lot
about
the
landmark
commission
and
will
always
keep
us
in
her
thoughts,
and
she
knows
how
hard
the
work
that
that
we
do
is
so
victoria.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
almost
five
years
of
service
with
the
historic
landmark
commission.
D
Not
only
has
it
been
a
total
joy
and
fun
working
with
you,
but
your
insights
on
multiple
cases,
I
think,
has
been
incredibly
valuable
and
bringing
us
back
to
the
standards
when
we
get
stuck.
You
have
been
stellar,
so
thank
you
so
much.
I
know
that
I'll
see
you
in
the
hallway
shortly
very
soon
and
I'm
not
sure
her
microphone's
working
or
if
she's
on
here
do
you
have
anything
to
say
victoria.
E
Have
loved
every
minute
I
have
learned
so
much.
There
is
an
advocate
and
a
partner
for
preservation
on
the
city,
council
and
you're
all
invited
to
I
mean
I
think
there
has
to
be
like
three
parties,
because
I
have
the
canvas
day.
I
have
the
appointment
and
then
I
have
a
swearing-in,
so
it
just
feels
like
everyone
calls
for
a
party,
so
I
hope
to
see
you
all
there.
A
D
So
excited
to
have
your
knowledge
on
city
council,
so
beneficials
and
I
just
can't
wait,
but
thank
you
so
much
for
these
years.
Together
we
have
had
fun,
I
definitely
had
fun
and
mr
david
richardson,
oh
two
terms:
can
you
believe
it's
been
eight
years,
sir.
F
No
way,
I
thought
it
was
like
six
but
wow,
eight
okay,
it
seems
like
it's
been
a
long
run.
It's
been
a
good
run
too.
I
have
thoroughly
enjoyed
working
with
you,
michaela
and
staff,
and
my
fellow
commissioners,
it's
been
a
wonderful
experience.
Oh.
D
It's
been
wonderful
working
with
you,
it's
just
been
so
we've
been
so
lucky
to
have
such
a
mindful
architect
and
a
structural
engineer
and
just
a
friend
to
work
with,
and
I
think
your
insights
and
your
knowledge
just
being
a
practitioner.
F
D
D
F
D
F
A
B
I
just
want
to
echo
everything
that
michaela
said
for
both
victoria
and
david.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
So
very
much.
I
very
much
appreciate
both
of
your
efforts
on
the
commission.
B
B
Very
good,
it's
been
there's
a
motion
to
approve,
let's
just
all
those
who
approve
say
aye,
any
opposed,
very
good.
Thank
you.
The
minutes
are
approved
unanimously.
B
So
now
I
believe
it's
time
for
opening
the
public
general
comments.
This
is
where
the
commission
will
hear
public
comments
that
are
not
pertaining
to
the
items
listed
on
the
agenda.
Are
there
any
public
comments
this
evening.
D
G
Thank
you.
So
I've
been
waiting
for
a
relatively
slow
night
at
the
commission
to
let
you
know
of
the
death
of
scott
larson,
one
of
the
residents
on
600
east,
who
initiated
the
central
city,
historic
district
scott
died
in
june.
A
neighbor
wrote
me
in
august
with
the
news
scott
was
my
age.
I
had
assumed
wrongly
that
there
was
time
to
ask
him
questions
about
the
building
that
I
purchased
for
him
in
2005
after
he
moved
out
of
state
to
live
surrounded
by
the
pacific
ocean.
G
Here's
what
you
need
to
know
about
the
initiation
of
the
central
city,
historic
district,
scott
and
the
norris's,
who
live
two
doors
to
the
north
on
600
east,
filed
a
petition
to
protect
the
landscape,
medians
or
parkings
in
600
east.
The
planning
staff
persuaded
them
to
add
the
blocks
on
either
side.
The
boundaries
were
problematic
from
the
beginning
and
still
are.
The
historic
fabric
was
already
highly
eroded
on
400
south
and
entire
streets,
like
veneer
court,
would
get
wiped
out
by
a
development
prior
to
the
1995
ordinance.
G
There
was
little
support
for
preservation
in
the
rules,
and
you
know
how
inadequate
the
1995
ordinance
still
is
relative
to
preservation.
Imagine
a
less
protective
environment.
The
battle
to
establish
the
central
city
district
was
so
difficult
that
I
thought
the
contention
might
spill
over
into
the
approval
of
the
university
historic
district
occurring.
At
the
same
time
it
did
not,
but
the
central
city
district
has
always
been
the
city's
preservation
stepchild.
G
I
doubt
that
anyone
besides
scott
larson
could
have
achieved
the
objective.
He
insisted
that
the
city
consider
the
character
of
historic
parking
services
and
appeal
the
paving
requirement
to
the
board
of
adjustment.
You
may
chuckle
at
the
thought
of
someone
more
stubborn,
more
tenacious
and
more
relentless
than
I
am,
but
scott
was
scott
got
the
job
done.
No
one
has
estimated
how
much
asphalt
or
how
many
big
boxes
he
has
spared
us.
He
drew
attention
to
a
working-class,
neighborhood
and
ignored
everyone
who
said
it
wasn't
good
enough.
I
will
miss
him.
B
Very
good,
then
I
moved
to
to
close
the
public
hearing
part
of
this
meeting
and
next
move
to
a
hearing
from
the
staff.
My
understanding
from
the
agenda.
We
have
two
two
cases
this
evening:
special
exceptions
and
the
national
registered
nomination,
and
so
with
that,
let's
move
to
item
number
one,
the
special
exceptions
and
minor
alterations.
H
Great,
so
this
is
a
request
from
judy
shoop,
the
owner
of
the
property
at
522
east
6th
avenue,
for
special
exception
approval
and
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
install
an
overhyped
fence
along
the
west.
Lot
line
of
the
property.
H
H
It's
on
sixth
avenue
between
g
h
street,
the
house
on
the
property
in
question
was
built
sometime.
The
early
1880s,
the
records
say
initially
is
an
adobe
structure,
but
it's
been
modified
over
the
years.
H
The
property
lines
on
this
map
are
very
off
so
they're
for
information.
Only
so
you
can
see
the
location
of
the
fence
that
has
been
proposed
along
this
west
property
line
and
we'll
go
on
all
right.
Here's
some
photos
of
the
site,
the
deck
the
materials
don't
appear
to
be
original,
as
they
are
made
of
tracks
or
some
other
sort
of
composition.
H
But
I
just
want
to
point
out
the
view
here.
You
can
see
what,
where
the
fence
is
going
where
it
is
proposed
along
here,
and
I
also
wanted
to
point
out
that
the
on
the
other
side
of
the
property,
there
is
already
an
eight
foot
fence
in
place
and
there's
some
other
examples.
Other
photos
in
the
staff
report
that
kind
of
lay
out,
what's
going
on
in
the
neighborhood
here's
some
photos
of
neighboring
properties
with
some
fences
and
hedges
taller
than
the
allowed
height
in
the
front
yard.
H
The
proposed
fence
will
stretch
the
length
of
the
property
here,
but
the
elevations
will
show
you
know
that
kind
of
change
in
elevation
that
varies
based
on
the
slope
and
the
height
of
the
deck
the
applicant
has
has
wanted
to
have
that
six
foot
height
be
consistent
along
the
deck
floor
and
along
the
stairs,
and
that
means
it's
taller
than
the
proposed
rather
than
the
allowed
six
feet
in
these
areas
here,
where
the
deck
is
higher
than
the
the
base
elevation,
and
so
this
is
staff's
recommendation
to
recommend
approval
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
at
this
point.
H
D
But
they
definitely
get
notified
too
just
to
let
you
know
of
the
plans.
C
H
So
this
specific
request
for
additional
fence
height
is
no
longer
permitted
in
the
zoning
code
with
the
city
council
approving
that
change
in
the
special
exception
standards-
defense
height,
you
know,
there's
no
special
exception
for
that
now,
and
it
has
to
follow
what
is
listed
in
the
code.
H
D
But
the
landmark
commission
there
last
time
I
tried
to
explain-
probably
didn't,
do
a
really
good
job
part
of
that
got
changed,
but
there's
another
upcoming
change
as
well
to
take
the
actual
special
exception
out,
but
you
is
the
landmark
commission
now
it's
called
a
special
exception
now,
after
this
second
code,
amendment
goes
through.
You'll
still
have
the
authority
to
make
those
sort
of
adjustments,
just
not
in
the
special
exception
realm.
Does
that
make
sense
that
you
didn't.
D
B
I
I
have
a
question:
can
you
go
to
the
side
elevation
andrew,
please,
the
elevation
drawing
yes
and
I
I
just
want
to
have
it
clear
in
my
mind,
and
I
see
the
transition
between
the
six
feet
and
the
six
feet,
and
it's
because
there's
the
deck
there
that
that's!
Why
why
the
eight
foot
height
is,
is
really
required.
B
So
in
the
future
I
mean
I
can
see
what
they're
doing
they're
just
connecting
the
dots
quite
frankly.
Otherwise
the
the
fence
would
have
to
step
down
stair-like
to
match
the
stairs
that
that
are
behind
it.
Isn't
that
correct.
H
B
B
B
Are
there
any
other
questions
for
from
the
commissioners
to
to
andrew.
I
D
I
Thanks
aaron,
when
we
practiced
the
other
day.
Thank
you,
okay,
oh
you're,
great,
thank
you
aaron
for
your
explanation
and
yes,
we
just
want
the
certificate
of
appropriateness.
The
deck
is
very
sturdy.
It's
like
a
piece
of,
I
guess.
Construction
and
the
fence
is
tied
in
with
it,
so
it
kind
of
all
goes
together
and
we
want
to
just
replace
the
fence
for
several
reasons.
I
One
is
because
it
became
unstable
last
year
when
you
had
a
big
wind
and
the
tree
fell
over
from
the
neighbor,
and
you
know
made
it
shaky
on
the
posts
and
then
also
the
property
line,
actually
changes
a
different
than
where
the
fence
is
at
this
time.
What
did
it
change,
but
it's
different
than
what
the
fence
makes
it
out
to
be,
so
we
want
to
recapture
that
that
property
in
that
fence,
so
all
the
way
around.
We
just
need
to
do
this
over
and
we
thought
it
would
be
much
nicer.
I
The
backyard
is
lovely,
as
babs
actually
knows,
fabs
helped
with
this
sale
some
years
ago,
and
it's
a
beautiful
backyard,
but
in
the
house
on
the
west
side
there
there's
just
it's
very
just
right
there
in
front
of
you
and
it
privacy
is
a
big
deal
in
this
ass
in
this
request
that
we're
making
of
you
as
well
as
aesthetics.
I
So
I
just
ask
you
please,
to
approve
this
certificate
of
appropriateness
and
if
you
have
any
questions
for
me,
I
can
answer
them.
F
I
They
do
have
considerable
deferred
maintenance.
That
is
true,
but
I
guess
what
shall
I
say:
that's
in
the
eye
of
the
beholder
and
I
really
try
to
reserve
judgment
on.
You
know
some
people's
standards
versus
my
standards.
On
the
other
hand,
I
can't
control
other
people.
I
can
only
maybe
control
my
own
space.
I
get
that.
F
F
I
Sir,
I
bought
that
house
in
2016
at
that
time.
2016.
at
that
time
the
deck
was
fairly
perfect.
As
far
as
being
an
old,
you
know,
15
year
old
deck,
perhaps
10
years
old.
The
back
especially,
is
pretty
sturdy.
The
sidewalk
going
down
the
side
and
the
part
towards
the
front
both
of
those
places
right.
There
have
kind
of
sunk
in.
I
And
that
came
across
in
the
last
few
years
and
all
of
that
needs
to
be
fixed,
but
because,
when
we
bought
the
house
that
someone
told
us
that
the
land
actually
extended
further
south
and
further
west
than
the
property
line
indicated
by
the
placement
of
the
fence,
we
hired
bush
and
gudgel
to
come
and
do
a
survey.
They
did
the
survey.
We
got
the
new
pins
and
we
now
know
where
the
property
line
is.
I
At
that
point,
we
wanted
to
replace
the
fence
that
would
involve
replacing
part
of
the
deck
because
the
deck
and
the
fence
are
built
together
and
hooked
together.
So
then,
probably
it
was
three
years
ago,
maybe
three
and
a
half,
I'm
not
sure
the
last
few
years,
a
bit
of
a
blur
with
all
that's
going
on,
but
I
started
this
proceeding
back
then
with
a
lady
named
mayara
lima.
I
think
I'm
pronouncing
her
name
correctly
through
the
city
emails
back
and
forth.
She
gave
me
emails
back
and
forth
what
I
needed
to
do.
I
I
F
I
F
One
one
related
question:
I
know:
babs
has
your
hand
up
so
how
far
and
in
which
direction
will
the
west
property
line
move
west
fence
move.
F
F
I
D
H
Me
pull
up
the
the
other
site
plan,
there's
a
plan
with
how
it
is
and
how
it's
going
to
be.
I
did
not
include
how
it
is
that
was
just
reported.
It's
in
the
staff
report.
A
C
F
My
biggest
issue
is
the
height
in
the
front,
but
anytime
someone
moves
a
fence
in
the
avenues
they
run
the
risk
of
just
having
disgruntled
neighbors.
F
There
are
cases
where
the
property
line
goes
through
the
neighbor's
house,
this
one's
a
little
easier
to
reconcile.
Oh.
A
G
Add
well
yeah.
First
of
all,
I
wanted
to
correct
dave
that
I'm
not
an
architect
or
engineer,
and
this
is
I
I
really
applaud
her
for
actually
getting
a
survey
before
doing
this
or
requesting
this,
and
I'm
a
little
embarrassed
that
you
were
asking
her
or
chiding
her
about
the
condition
of
her
deck,
because
she's
trying
to
do
this
all
at
once
and
the
whole
topic
is
about
the
fence
and
not
the
condition
of
the
deck.
F
B
B
Very
good
and
seeing
since
there
were
no
additional
from
the
public.
B
Hearing
no
other
public
comments,
you
know
we
can
close
that
part
of
it
and
babs
did
you
have
any
further
comment
that
you
wanted
to
make.
B
Right
very
good,
so
let's
open
this
to
executive
session
by
the
commission.
G
Hold
on,
I
have
to
pull
it
up
here
here
we
go
based
on
the
analysis
regarding
a
plnhlc2021-0.
G
B
Thank
you,
verbs
is
there
a
second
to
this
is.
B
C
B
A
B
A
A
A
A
A
B
Very
good
all
right,
and
I
also
wrote
I
and
so
this
passes
unanimously.
B
All
right
so
now
we
move
to
the
second
item.
National
register
nomination
for
the
pantages,
slash,
utah,
theater,.
A
I
I've
been
informed
that
our
firm
has
previously
done
marketing
for
the
proposed
project
on
this
site
and
in
conversation
with
staff,
they've
recommended
that
I
recuse
myself
from
this
particular
item.
F
And
mr
chair,
likewise
I
sit
on
the
committee
that
will
approve
this
after
landmarks.
I
am
going
to
recuse
myself
from
the
vote,
but
not
from
the
discussion
very
well.
F
A
B
M
Thanks,
sir,
it
seems
to
be
a
trend
around
here:
you're
you're
likely
familiar
with
the
pantages
utah
theater.
Its
future
has
been
debated
for
many
years,
but
particularly
since
the
city's
redevelopment
agency
purchased
it
in
2010..
M
The
merits
of
that
agreement
and
the
question
of
whether
the
theater
should
be
saved
is
not
a
question
for
the
historic
landmarks
commission's
review
this
evening.
The
your
review
tonight
is
because
the
state,
historic
preservation,
office
or
shippo
has
received
a
request
to
add
the
pantages
utah
theater
to
the
national
register
of
historic
places.
As
part
of
the
listing
process.
M
M
Shippo
forwards,
your
recommendation
to
the
utah
board
of
state
history,
which
then
votes
on
whether
to
forward
the
nomination
to
the
national
park
service,
where
the
keeper
of
the
national
register
ultimately
decides
whether
to
list
the
property
in
and
in
order
to
be
clear.
At
the
beginning
of
the
presentation
listing
the
pantages
utah
theater
on
the
national
register
of
historic
places
will
not
prevent
its
demolition.
D
A
C
M
It
was,
it
was
all
carefully
conceived,
you're
not
seeing
it
now.
A
M
Okay,
we'll
try
again,
so
I
won't
reiterate
all
of
that,
but.
M
Just
to
be
just
to
be
clear
at
the
beginning
of
the
presentation
to
get
back
on
track
here,
listing
the
pantages
utah
theater
on
the
national
register
won't
prevent
its
demolition.
Nor
does
it
mean
that
the
historic
landmark
commission
would
review
any
proposed
alterations
to
the
building
if
current
plans
aren't
finalized.
M
M
So
the
theater
was
built
in
1920
by
the
pantages
vaudeville
circuit
is
being
nominated,
both
as
a
significant
example
of
the
few
extent
dog
era
theaters
in
salt
lake
city
and
also
for
its
architectural
significance
and
for
as
a
building
that
was
adapted
over
as
technology
changed
over
the
years
initially
intended
as
a
live
theater
for
vaudeville
acts,
the
theater
pantages
was
adapted
for
use
as
a
movie
theater
in
1930
and
then
went
underwent
several
ownership
and
name
changes.
M
There
we
go
in
1937,
new
owners
changed
the
theater's
name
to
the
utah
and
also
updated
the
front
facade
with
terra
cotta
facing
and
a
new
marquis
in
1968.
The
ornate
auditorium
was
split
into
two
as
the
popularity
of
singles
green
theaters
ebbed
and
then
the
movie
theaters
closed
in
june
of
1992
we're
good.
M
Since
then
it's
been
it's
been.
A
vacant
building
has
remained
vacant.
The
city's
redevelopment
agency
bought
the
building
in
2010
and
plans
to
restore
it
or
adaptively
reuse.
The
theaters,
the
theater,
has
stalled
as
economic
conditions
and
policies.
Priorities
have
shifted
since
2010.,
so
you're
reviewing
a
nomination.
Here,
it's
a
little
unusual
because
the
theater
isn't
being
nominated
by
the
owner,
it's
being
nominated
by
the
save
the
pen,
salt
lake
city,
pantages
theater
coalition,
which
was
organized
in
2020
to
advocate
for
saving
the
theater.
M
They
submitted
this
domination
as
part
of
their
efforts.
Nominations
like
this
without
an
owner's
consent
are
rare,
and
I
figured
that
you
would
be
wondering
why
it's
it's
progressing
through
to
this
point.
In
this
case,
the
state
preservation
office
is
proceeding
through
this
process
because
it
determined
the
theater
is
a
public
property
and
could
be
dominated.
M
In
addition
to
that,
it's
been
cities,
police,
the
city's
policy
to
conduct
these
reviews
in
the
public
hearing
to
allow
public
comment
so
that
that
would
be
your
action
here
tonight.
M
You
forward
that
recommendation
to
the
utah
shippo
and
the
park
service
and
they
ultimately
the
board
of
state
history,
would
review
it
at
a
state
level
and
then
the
national
park
service
and
the
keeper
of
the
national
register
of
historic
places
is
the
ultimate
arbiter
when
it
comes
to
listing
the
building
on
the
national
register.
M
If
the
city's
current
agreement
with
the
developer
to
construct
a
new
building
on
this
site
proceeds
as
planned,
that
would
not
be
affected
by
either
listing
or
not
listing
this
building
on
the
national
register.
So
your
recommendation
goes
to
shippo
and
likely
the
outcome
doesn't
change.
Unfortunately,
this
is
a
a
building
where
perhaps
its
time
has
passed,
but
your
recommendation
here
would
be
to
to
shippo
for
its
listing
and
whether
or
not
it's
eligible
staff
hasn't
received
any
public
comment
on
this.
M
I
I
know
that
the
consultant
who
prepared
the
nomination
and
a
representative
or
two
of
the
save
the
pantages
theater
coalition
is
here
and
I'm
sure
that
they
will
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
As
would
I
thank.
M
Would
it
would
be,
would
could
object
to
a
nomination
and
it
wouldn't
be
listed
in
this
case.
Like
I
said,
the
shippo
has
determined
that
this
is
a
public
place
and
so
case
law
shows
that
it
would
be
eligible
for
listing
on
the
national
register
if
it,
if
the
sale
to
the
developer
proceeds
as
planned,
they
could
object
to
the
listing
and
it
wouldn't
proceed.
C
I
have
two
questions:
nelson
one,
great
presentation,
thank
you
for
making
a
lot
of
this
information
very
clear,
but
I
just
have
two
questions
that
I
think
would
just
help
me
understand
better.
As
a
commissioner
one,
I've
I've
only
been
in
utah
in
salt
lake
city
for
a
few
years,
so
I've
tried
to
educate
myself
a
bit
on
over
the
last
fears
on
the
theater.
Was
it
sold
it?
Just?
C
And
then
my
second
question
is:
are
there
since
this
building
currently
isn't
in
a
local,
historic
district
or
designated
as
any
with
any
historic
designations?
Is
there
any?
Are
there
any
plans
for
other
structures
on
main
street
or
in
that
general
area
for
local
historic
districts
or
other
designations
in
the
future?.
M
Well,
I
can
I'll
address
your
second
question.
First,
there
there
is
along
main
street,
there's
a
there's,
a
local
historic
district
exchange
place,
which
opens
onto
main
street
that's
located
on
fourth
south
and
main
street.
There
are
a
handful
of
additional
properties,
one
of
which
is
the
kearns
building,
which
is
additionally,
which
is
immediately
north
of
this
project,
property
that
is
listed
on
the
national
register
and
also
the
city
local
register
as
the
landmark
sites.
M
I
know
that
the
then
the
property
immediately
to
the
north,
of
that
the
danes
music
building
is
also
a
landmark
site.
There
have
been
others
over
the
years
that
honestly
out
there,
the
clift
building
on
third
south
and
main
street
as
well.
There
are
other
buildings
that,
under
different
regulations
for
landmarks,
were
formerly
local
landmarks
that
have
been
demolished,
and
there
are
other
examples
of
that
within
the
downtown
area.
M
There
are
many
other
buildings
that
are
on
the
national
register
typical
of
this,
and
in
some
cases
those
have
been
renovated
and
saved
and
are-
and
are
you
know,
great
buildings
in
and
of
themselves?
One
example
is
the
the
former
tribune
building,
which
is
now
newmont
college
across
the
street
from
this
and
then
the
the
original
intent
I
think,
of
the
rda's
purchase
in
the
city
in
2010,
was
to
rehab
or
adaptively
reuse.
M
The
building
there
have
been
several
studies
since
then,
and
you
know,
as
time
has
passed,
the
the
building
has
conditions
has
deteriorated
and
the
costs
of
rehabilitation
have
gone
up.
You
know
there
isn't
full
consensus
on
that.
M
C
B
So
so,
nelson,
not
not
a
question
but
but
a
comment
based
on
our
conversation
yesterday,
I
think
you
had
indicated
that
that
there
has
been
a
photographic
or
elect
electoral
photographic
documentation
of
the
building.
The
majority
of
the
spaces
is
that
correct.
M
Correct
the
the
rda
funded
a
pretty
extensive
documentation
of
the
building
after
the
they
entered
into
this
agreement
to
sell
the
property
that
is
available
on
the
marriott
library
website
and
and
if
you
look
up
pantages
utah
theater,
it
comes
up.
It's
the
pantages
theater
archive.
I
think
it's
called
in
addition
to
that,
there's
a
lot
of
documentation
both
at
chippo
and
that
was
put
together
as
part
of
this
research
that
will,
you
know,
obviously
continue
beyond
the
the
building's
life.
A
I'd
like
to
ask
a
follow-up
question
regarding
that
documentation.
That
was
done.
I'm
wondering
why
the
I
guess
why
the
drawings
that
are
present
in
the
packet
that
we
were
that
was
shared
with
us-
are
so
low
quality
in
comparison
to
the
drawings
that
are
available
on
the
pantages
theater
archive
marriott
library
website,
because
they
they're
considerably
lower
quality,
pixelated
unlabeled,
not
quite
as
detailed
and
so
forth.
Is
there
a.
M
Reason
for
that
that's
really
related
to
the
nomination
format.
What
what
we've
given?
You
is
the
nomination
that
we
received
from
shippo,
so
they're
limited
as
to
quality,
or
something
like
that
and
you
know,
as
things
get
moved
around
image.
Quality
suffers,
but
yeah.
The
the
original
drawings
online
are
a
lot
better
than
the
examples
that
are
in
the
nomination.
M
I
I
think
that
would
be
something
that
will
be
updated
if
the
nomination
goes
forward
and
proceeds,
we
can
certainly
tell
the
national
coordinator
national
register
coordinator
at
chippo
that
that
was
something
that
was
pointed
out.
I
appreciate.
M
In
other
cases
you
can
open
the
public
hearing,
and
I
think
that
the
the
like,
I
said,
the
consultant
and
the
the
representatives
of
the
group
behind
the
nomination
are
here.
B
A
O
Awesome
how's
it
going
guys
thanks
for
letting
me
come
on
here,
so
I'm
actually
one
of
the
people
from
save
the
utah
pantages,
I'm
the
one
that
hired
kirk
huffaker,
the
former
director
of
preservation
utah
to
do
this
application
we've
been
working
on
all
year.
I'm
super
happy
to
answer
any
questions
on
here
but
happy
to
make
some
just
general
comments
too.
So
in
february
of
2020
I
hired
kirk
and
he
he
did
a
preliminary
look
into
the
theater
and
whether
it
was
eligible
for
the
registry.
O
We
did
that
he
worked
with
corey
jensen
at
the
state
historical
office
and
they
sent
that
out
to
the
park
service
and
and
they
agreed
that
it
was
eligible
for
the
registry,
and
then
we
did
the
former
application
as
which
is
what
is
here
now
and
I'd
also
like
to
mention.
You
know.
We
mentioned
some
of
the
stuff
about
the
deal
with
the
this
current
rda
deal
that
was
signed
in
november
of
2019
there's
actually
a
letter
of
the
from
shippo
to
preservation,
utah
and
and
the
rda.
O
O
He
bought
the
theater
with
the
promise
to
see
it
restored
and
it's
actually
mentioned
in
the
downtown
master
plan,
and
it's
it
mentions
that
the
utah
theater
to
be
repurposed
into
a
cultural
and
activity
generator,
which
is
current
deal,
is
not
with
with
luxury
apartments.
But
I
would
like
to
get
back
to
the
registry
that
you
know
this
building
billing's
103
years
old,
babe
ruth
performed
there,
alvin
costello
will
rogers.
The
history
is
just
absolutely
insane.
O
This
is
really
a
national
treasure
and
by
making
it
finally,
on
the
national
registry,
it
honors
the
theater
in
a
way
for
the
whole
country
and
and
your
your
guys's
recommendation
and
the
nomination
helps
us
to
then
go
to
the
city
and
go
to
the
mayor
and
go
to
the
city
council
and
ask
them
to
make
this
a
salt
lake
city
landmark,
which
would
protect
it
from
demolition
and
would
save
it
and
and
to
some
of
the
comments
about
the
applicants
and
these
sort
of
things.
O
The
rda
is
a
collection
of
public
property.
This
this
building
was
bought
with
tax
dollars.
This
is
a
public
building,
so
we
as
members
of
the
public,
you
know,
submitted
it
for
the
registry
under
that.
So
I
just
like
to
quit
clarify
that,
but
that's
kind
of
a
just
a
rough
background,
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions,
and
then
I
heard
some
questions
about
some
of
the
restoration
costs
and
viability
of
the
building.
I'm
happy
to
get
more
into
that.
O
We
have
national
experts
working
with
us,
including
the
league
of
historic
american
theaters,
and
also
evergreen
architectural
arts
who
restored
our
other
sister
pantages
theaters,
and
that
sort
of
thing
so
happy
to
sit
on
here
and
just
I
know
kirk's
on
here
too.
He
can
comment,
but
any
questions,
I'd
love
to
answer
and
get
some
into
some
of
those
details
that
weren't
mentioned
before.
B
Just
just
for
my
note,
keeping
here
tell
me
who
who
was
talking
please.
O
Yeah,
my
name
is
michael
valentine,
I'm
one
of
the
organizers
of
save
the
utah
pantages,
been
in
the
newspaper
for
chaining
myself
to
the
building
and
that
sort
of
fun
stuff.
O
But
I
have
a
background
of
film,
I'm
a
filmmaker
and
we've,
you
know
been
trying
to
save
the
theater
for
two
years
since
he
restored
into
you
know,
basically,
a
cinema
place
for
for
film
festivals
and
movies
and
build
a
historic
theater
district
with
the
capitol
theater
right
there,
and
you
know
the
echoes
across
the
street
which
isn't
historic.
But
you
know
it's
our
other
big
theater.
So.
P
Good
evening,
commissioners,
mr
chair
and
planning
administrators,
thank
you
for
the
time
on
the
agenda
tonight
to
consider
this
nomination.
Just
just
a
couple
of
points
I
wanted
to
bring
up.
You
know
like
like
any
client
that
would
desire
to
do
a
historic
preservation
task.
You
know
I
answered
the
phone
when
michael,
called
and
and
said,
of
course,
I'd
be
happy
to
help
you
figure
out
how
to
do
this
and
and
the
figuring
out
part
took
a
little
while
we
did
not
enter
into
this.
P
You
know
lightly.
We
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
national
park
service
was
going
to
be
okay
with
our
approach
to
the
nomination
and
in
terms
of
of
the
context
statement
and
the
significance
and
and
really,
as
you
mentioned
earlier,
due
to
the
alterations,
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
this
was
something
that
was
indeed
eligible,
and
so,
after
a
little
back
and
forth,
we
did
get
that
confirmation,
and
so
at
that
point
we
proceeded
with
the
full
nomination.
P
I'm
happy
to
also
answer
questions.
I
I
will
address
the
one
about
the
resolution
in
the
nomination.
P
P
Photographs
and
documentation
that
we
collect
through
our
research
process
and
through
photography.
And
so
those
are
on
record
at
state
history,
as
well
as
at
the
park
service
when
the
nomination
gets
approved
and
transferred.
And
so
those
are
are
part
of
the
public
record
and
and
go
with
the
nomination.
But
the
nomination
itself,
yes,
is
low
resolution.
K
Have
a
question
for
kirk,
or
maybe
it's
a
request
for
those
of
us
who
might
be
a
little
less
familiar
with
the
national
register
eligibility
criteria?
Could
you
just
explain
in
general
how
the
four
criteria
for
national
register
eligibility
work
and
then
how
they're
applied
in
the
utah
theater?
I
see
its
criteria
in
a
and
c
and
just
kind
of
explaining
the
elevator
pitch.
I
guess
on
that
eligibility,
determination,
sure.
P
I'll
I'll
try
to
summarize
so
the
the
criterion.
There
are
four
criterion
for
which
a
site
can
be
eligible
criterion.
A
is
under
the
broad
patterns
of
history
in
a
community
criterion
b,
is
significant
related
to
a
person
or
an
event.
P
P
We
did
consider
a
criterion
b
with
alexander
pantages,
most
specifically,
but
decided
at
the
end
that
this
is
really
not
one
of
the
most
highly
intact
pantages
theaters.
There
are
certainly
more
that
you
can
find
you
know
from
seattle
to
la
to
portland
and
that
are
probably
more
representative
of
the
high
style
that
pantage
has
embraced
in
design
and-
and
you
know,
therefore
could
represent
him
better
as
well.
P
He
also
owned
it
for
a
shorter
period
of
time,
so
we
discarded
b
and
went
with
a
and
c,
and
so
we
really
talked
about
a
and
c
with
the
park
service.
A
is
that
the
utah
theater
or
the
pantages.
P
As
nelson
had
said,
it
is
representative
of
a
rare
breed
of
entertainment
venues
now
as
a
vaudeville
theater,
but
also
was
an
active
film
theater
for
decades
and
was
part
of
this
cultural
center
that
salt
lake
city
was
for
the
entire
state
and
certainly
under
its
ownership,
by
paramount
it
had
many
film
premieres
that,
were,
you,
know,
hugely
attended,
widely
promoted
of
very
popular
movies,
and
so
it
was
really
a
centerpiece
of
that
entertainment
of
salt
lake
city
and
that's
why
it
qualifies
under
criterion
a
criterion
c.
P
You
know
when
it
was
built.
It
really
was
a
show
palace
and
there
are
full
page
ads
that
you
can
see
in
the
documentation
that
talk
about
the
design,
the
even
down
to
the
specific
air
handling
systems
which
were
pioneering
of
the
time
and
and
fire
proofing,
and
all
these
kinds
of
things
to
make
people
want
to
come
in.
But
it
was
really
the
eye-catching
sort
of
italian
renaissance
design
of
the
interior
that
people
fell
in
love
with,
and
that
is
still
there.
You
know
the
most
significant
part
of
it.
P
The
ceiling
and
the
upper
part
of
the
proscenium
is
still
there.
As
well
as
the
the
entry
hallway
and
the
the
the
foyer,
and
so
a
lot
of
that,
decorative
ornamentation
is
still
there
and
also
in
design.
We
looked
at
really
the
period
of
time
over
the
decades,
including
the
twin
plexing,
of
the
building
as
being
significant.
P
You
know
separately
as
separate
structures
in
communities
and
in
suburbs,
and
so
the
inner
city
theaters
really
had
to
find
a
way
to
compete
and
the
way
that
the
utah
theater
was
split,
while
certainly
not
the
best
historic
preservation
move
did
allow
them
to
economically
compete
along
with
the
utah
three
theater
across
the
street,
with
the
other
multiplexes
that
were
emerging
at
the
time,
and
so
it
really
shows
this
progression
from
vaudeville
to
modern
times
and
and
how
we
see
films
now
in
one
place,
and
so
that's
that's
sort
of
how
we
boiled
the
design
category
down
in
criterion
c.
Q
Good
afternoon,
commissioners,
my
name
is
mike
hume
and
I'm
calling
in
to
support
the
nomination
to
add
the
pantages
use
a
theater
to
the
national
register
of
historic
places
to
vote
some
background.
On
my
experience,
I'm
a
theater
photographer
who
travels
the
us
and
other
countries,
photographing
significant
theaters
and
movie
palaces
to
document
them
for
the
historic
record.
You
can
see
my
work
at
historictheaterphotos.com.
Q
Based
in
los
angeles,
I
sit
on
the
board
of
directors
of
the
la
historic
theatre
foundation,
whose
mission
is
to
protect,
preserve,
restore
and
sustain
the
operation
of
historic
theaters
in
l.a
county,
the
foundation's,
a
member
of
the
league
of
historic
theatres,
and
we
also
work
with
jeff
green,
the
founder
of
evergreen
architectural
arts,
who
was
mentioned
in
the
earlier.
Q
We
worked
with
apple
computer
on
the
barebones
renovation
and
restoration
and
seismic
retrofit
of
the
1927
tar
theater
in
downtown
l.a
and
we're
actively
working
with
netflix
on
their
projects
at
the
egyptian
theater
in
hollywood.
So
thinking
about
the
pantages
utah
theater,
I
can
really
only
speak
on
criterion
c
as
I'm
not
local,
and
I
don't
know
much
about
the
history
but
having
seen
what's
been
researched,
I've
no
doubt
that
it
qualifies
there.
The
architect
b,
marcus
pateka
was
an
immigrant
scotsman.
Q
Like
myself,
he
spent
a
long
and
fruitful
collaboration
with
alexander
pantages
and
in
l.a
we're
lucky
enough
to
have
at
least
four
of
his
early
20th
century
theaters,
designed
by
him.
One
of
the
theaters
currently
adaptively
reused
is
the
same
pantages
greek
design
as
protecca
employed
at
the
pantages
utah
theater
parallels
have,
of
course,
been
drawn
with
the
tacoma
pantages,
which
is
likely
the
finest
example
of
that
design.
Another
one
in
los
angeles,
is
the
well-known
hollywood
pantages
theater
as
marcus
law.
Famously
said,
we
don't
sell
tickets
to
movies,
we
sell
tickets
to
theaters.
R
Yeah,
that's
me
casey,
hello,
everybody.
I
so
I'm
another
one
of
the
organizers.
You
heard
michael
talk
about
chaining
himself
to
the
theater.
He
was
actually
arrested
there
as
well,
so
I'm
the
guy
that
wasn't
chained
to
the
theater
and
wasn't
arrested.
R
We've
been
working
together
for
a
while
and
and
we're
the
ones
who
have
been
pulling
all
this
together
with
kirk.
So
some
of
my
background
really
quick.
I
was
part
of
the
team
that
put
the
walker
center
another
building
close
to
the
theater.
I
think
one
of
you
asked
a
question
about
other
significant
sites,
historic
things
down
there.
We
put
that
on
as
a
city
landmark
and
a
on
the
national
register.
R
A
R
And
I
have
a
long
experience
in
architecture
and
construction
and
it
was
very
clear
to
me
that
it
was
obviously
eligible
even
for
what's
in
there
and
what's
been
lost,
and
then,
when
you,
I
knew
the
history
from
my
family.
My
family
was
part
of
the
construction,
my
relatives
and
the
management
as
vaudeville
and
movies,
and
so
I
knew
the
the
long
storied
history
of
the
theater,
and
so
I
really
appreciate
nelson.
R
The
way
he's
presented
this
to
you,
because
we're
really
only
asking
the
question
question
you
know:
do
you
believe
what's
been
put
in
front
of
you
in
that
application,
and
I
don't
know
how
any
of
us
could
doubt
it.
Kirk
has
a
long
history
in
historic
preservation,
he's
been
working
with
shippo
and-
and
I
think
it's
obvious
that
the
building
can
be
listed
and
should
be
listed
and
should
get
your
recommendation,
regardless
of
any
of
the
cost
issues
that
we've
been
talking
about,
regardless
of
who
owns
it.
R
In
this
case,
it's
a
city
owned
building,
otherwise
publicly
owned
and
legal
president
said
that
we
could
do
this.
So
this
is
how
we're
we're
trying
to
fight
the
fight
to
save
a
historic
building
the
city
bought
it
just
like
it.
Bought
warm
springs
just
like
about
the
fisher
mansion,
because
they
knew
and
with
political
change,
administrative
change,
leadership
change.
R
We
think
they've
gone
down
the
wrong
path
on
the
theater,
and
this
is
our
effort
to
to
turn
that
path
and
and
lead
them
back
to
a
place
where
it
could
be
saved
and
restored
and
used
for
another
103
years.
So
I
I
I
would
say
that
I
humbly
ask
that
you
give
a
positive
recommendation
so
that
we
can
list
the
building
that
should
have
been
listed
long
ago
thanks.
Everybody.
J
Hi,
thank
you
for
taking
my
comments.
Can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
hello.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
you
can
hear
me
yeah,
so
I
absolutely
would
love
for
you
to
consider
and
vote
in
favor
of
this
utah
historic
theater,
utah
pantages
theater
for
the
historic
nomination.
It's
absolutely
deserving
of
it.
J
I
first
I've
only
been
in
there
once
I
went
there
in
elementary
school
on
a
field
trip
and
just
fell
in
love
with
it's
the
first
time
I
really
recognized
the
value
of
historic
buildings.
I
was
just
awestruck
by
it,
and
I've
been
quite
a
history,
buff
and
historic
fan
of
historic
theaters
since
that
fateful
field
trip
in
elementary
school.
J
It
was
about
the
same
time
that
the
city
county
building
was
being
threatened,
and
I
think
the
same
things
were
being
said
about
it
being
in
a
deplorable
state
of
condition
and
not
worthy
of
restoration,
not
worthy
of
historic
designation,
but
luckily
we
made
the
right
decision
and
I
think
history
stands
by
that
history
will
stand
by
recognizing
this
as
a
historic
place
as
well.
J
A
couple
of
the
points
I'd
like
to
mention
is
that
it
really
will
be
a
destination
theater,
a
place
for
as
a
destination
for
tourism
in
a
vibrant,
historic
place.
J
It's
also
notable
that
the
utah
pantages
theater
was
one
of
the
first
buildings
in
the
country
with
air
conditioning
it's
one
of
the
first
buildings
in
the
country
that
had
a
warren
trust,
which
is
one
of
the
reasons
it
survived.
J
The
the
recent
earthquake
relatively
unscathed,
there's
also
it
it's
worthy
of
saving,
it's
absolutely
a
historic
place
and
I
hope
you'll
make
that
paul.
Thank
you
very
much
appreciate
it.
S
S
S
A
Michaela
oscar
our
visa
would
like
to
speak.
L
Thank
you.
Well,
I
wasn't
sure
if
I
could
make
a
general
car
or
a
comment
on
the
theater
tonight,
but
I
can't
kind
of
guess
this.
My
general
comment
kind
of
applies.
My
name
is
oscar
avizu,
and
I
just
I'm
just
wondering
about
where
the
architectural
and
cultural
future
of
the
city
is
headed.
L
Why
is
the
most
favorable
favorable
response
to
tear
down
old
buildings
instead
of
saving
them
moving
them
or
incorporating
them
into
new
buildings
or
building
designs
instead
of?
Instead
we
give
away
millions
in
tax
incentives
and
exemptions
to
developers
to
trash
our
history
and
distinctive
architecture
and
replace
them
with
generic
boxes
and
glass
and
glass
designs
that
look
out
of
date,
the
minute
they
are
done,
then
they
repeat
it
on
every
corner
of
the
city
that
you
don't
even
realize
what
section
you
are
in
town.
L
You
are
anymore
because
it
all
looks
the
same
from
downtown
to
sugarhouse
and
now
murray,
there's
no
style
or
imagination
designs
that
look
like
sixth
graders
created
them
in
minecraft
boxes,
on
top
of
more
boxes,
surrounded
by
glass
boxes
within
colored
boxes,
it's
ridiculous
and
disappointing
and
shameful
that
we
are
destroying
our
history
for
the
lack
of
imagination
and
with
the
help
of
our
tax
dollars.
That
only
benefit
those
involved
or
line
pockets
of
those
the
developers
that
build
them.
L
Imagine
what
europe
would
look
like
if
they
had
that
same
mentality,
how
inspiring
would
paris,
prague,
vienna
or
venice,
be
now
you
are
saying
yes
to
everything
in
the
name
of
growth,
but
at
what
cost?
It's
definitely
not
the
growth
and
perpetuation
of
the
city
culture,
but
of
growth
of
a
selected
fuse
individual's
wealth.
There's
a
lot
of
examples
of
city
projects
that
incorporate
their
old
historical
buildings,
pioneer
square
in
portland
apple,
tower,
theater,
in
los
angeles,
wonder,
bed
factory
in
washington
dc
and
many
more.
L
C
I
guess
I
can
start
by
saying
that
I
fully
support
this
nomination.
I
think
that
it
was
very
well
done.
Kirk
who
worked
on
this
nomination,
I
think,
did
a
great
job
and
in
the
context
of
local
state
and
national
significance.
I
think
that
this
theater
deserves
to
be
recognized
and
to
all
the
preservationists
that
have
shared
tonight
and
joined
just
a
plug
that
we
have
open
spots
on
the
landmarks
commission
and
we're
always
looking
for
people.
K
I
had
the
opportunity
to
walk
through
the
theater
about
probably
four
or
five
years
ago
with
an
rda
representative.
This
was
before
the
sale,
I
believe
and
yeah
it's
it's.
I
echo
the
sentiment
of
the
commenters
who
have
been
in
the
building.
K
It
really
is
kind
of
a
transformative
space,
frankly,
not
much
to
look
at
from
our
offices
in
the
walker
center
and
it's
it's
not
much
to
look
at
the
utah
theater
from
the
outside
across
main
street,
but
at
the
same
time
the
interior
more
than
makes
up
for
for
the
exterior.
And
yes,
it's
it's
in
disrepair,
but
you
know,
speaking
from
my
experience
as
a
preservation
architect,
the
interiors
could
be
repaired
relatively
straightforward.
K
You
know
there's
plaster
molds
that
could
be
done
and
you
know
other
refinishing
options
and
I
I
do
understand
the
kind
of
limitations
of
the
seismic
work
that
would
have
to
be
done
and
I'm
not
discounting
that,
but
just
looking
at
the
case
for
for
a
national
register
nomination.
I
think
this
nomination
form
makes
a
very
strong
case
under
both
criteria
a
and
c
mind
you.
K
It
only
takes
one
criteria
to
be
listed
on
the
national
register,
so
I
support
it
and
just
addressing
that
last
comment
from
mr
arvisu,
I
think
it's
one
of
the
interesting
things
about
listing
on
the
national
register
of
historic
places
is.
It
makes
you
eligible
for
federal,
historic
tax
credits,
which
can
be
up
to
20
percent
of
eligible
expenditures
that
you
would
do
on
a
renovation
project.
K
So
in
this
case
it's
really
incentivizing
an
owner
to
to
use
tax
dollars
to
their
benefit,
and
I
just
hope
that
you
know
the
owner
of
the
building
once
it's
not
city
owned,
fully.
Considers
that
that
option
in
in
restoring
the
theater.
F
Yeah
good
good
point
and
john,
I
want
to
just
reiterate
what
you
said,
and
the
last
time
I
was
in
the
building
was
about
the
time
that
that
that
I
call
it
the
rda
fly
through
the
the
the
3d
model
was
created
and,
and
that
describes
the
building,
in
my
opinion,
quite
well.
Anyone
that
chooses
to
go
on
the
marriott
website
and
to
look
at
that
can
get
a
feeling
about.
F
You
know
for
what
a
wonderful
neoclassical
interior
has,
but
that
said,
I
really
want
to
thank
the
applicant
and
their
consultants
for
documenting
the
theater
for
future
posterity.
I
think
this
is
a
very
important
exercise
to
go
through
and
I
commend
them
for
that.
Thank
you.
A
B
What's
in
the
the
discussion,
then,
and
is
there
a
a
call
for
motion.
K
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
based
on
the
information
listed
in
the
national
register,
nomination
form
the
information
presented
and
the
input
received
during
the
public
hearing.
I
moved
that
one.
The
commission
finds
that
the
pantages
utah
theater
appears
to
meet
the
national
register
criteria
and
two
recommends
its
listing
to
the
utah
state,
historic
preservation
office
and
the
utah
board
of
state
history.
C
B
A
B
B
Toria
is
not
here,
and
I
would
also
vote
as
I,
so
we
have
two
abstentions
and
one
two,
three
four
five,
six
seven
I
the
the
motion
carries.
Thank
you
now.
One
question
that
I
did
have
nelson.
This
did
not
have
a
pnc
number.
Would
one
be
assigned
to
this
to
this
recommendation
that
goes
to
chippo.
M
We
haven't
in
the
past,
as
has
gone
through
this
process.
We
think
that
future
ones
will
we'll
figure
that
out
very
good.
C
Before
we
move
into
the
training,
I
just
wanted
to
mention
that
shippo
on
wednesday,
the
10th
is
hosting
a
workshop
with
the
national
park
service
for
national
registrar
training.
So
I
didn't
know
if
any
of
the
commissioners
were
interested
in
attending,
I
can
send
out
the
link
but
yeah.
Essentially
it
will
be
just
a
training
with
the
park
service
and
the
state
historic
preservation
office
for
the
process
of
a
national
registrar
nomination.
So,
if
anyone's
interested
and
before
I.
B
B
G
Why
don't
you
send
it
or
I
send
it
to
everybody.
B
All
right,
I
believe,
we've
covered
the
two
items
on
our
agenda
tonight,
but
there
is
other
business.
The
opma
training.
G
Say
I
could
have
found
some
appropriate
memes
and
tick
tocks
to
make
it
a
little
more
lively.
You.
N
Okay,
get
it
done.
Sorry,
I'm
trying
to
share
my
screen
here
here
it
is.
You
should
all
have
a
copy
of
this
in
your
dropbox
and
for
babs
the
benefit
we'll
try
to
get
through
this
quickly.
N
N
N
It
is
so
sorry.
D
N
Several
basically
quotes
from
state
code
here,
because
it's
just
easier
that
way.
The
idea
behind
this
is
that
we
want
the
people's
business
conducted
in
the
open
so
that
the
public
can
have
trust
that
what
we're
doing
is
on
the
up
and
up
and
I'm
just
gonna,
go
into
a
little
commentary
here.
It
should
come
as
no
surprise
to
any
of
you
that
we're
at
a
point
right
now
where
there
seems
to
be
very
little
trust
in
government
dealing
with
with
these
kinds
of
issues
on
a
regular
basis.
N
People
who
don't
like
the
results
of
land
use
decisions
suggest
that
members
or
that
that
staff
members
have
done
things
that
are
inappropriate
or
even
commission
members.
N
None
of
this
has
any
factual
basis,
but
we
live
in
a
world
where,
if
you
don't
like
something,
you
just
accuse
people
of
things
and
see
if
it
gains
a
little
steam.
So
it
is
so
important
that
we
do
everything
in
the
light
of
day
and
avoid
those
things
that
will
give
members
of
the
public
a
reason
to
suspect
otherwise.
N
So,
let's,
let's
do
our
work
in
the
light
of
day,
all
right
always
important
to
talk
about
the
the
definitions
in
the
code,
because
this
is
sort
of
these
are
the
building
blocks
of
the
public
meetings
act.
What
is
the
meeting?
N
A
meeting
means
the
convening
of
a
public
body
or
specified
body
and
that's
defined
elsewhere
with
the
quorum
present,
including
workshop
executive
session
field
trip,
whatever
we
may
do,
if
we
ever
get
back
to
doing
field
trips,
whether
in
person
or
by
making
electronic
communications
for
the
purpose
of
discussing
receiving
comments
from
the
public
about
or
acting
upon,
a
matter
over
which
the
public
body
or
specific
body
has
jurisdiction
or
advisory
power.
N
So
when
a
meeting
is
convened
with
a
quorum
in
order
to
do
the
body's
business,
that's
that
is
a
meeting
does
not
mean
the
chance
of
social
gathering.
N
You
have
this
and
we'll
read
it.
It's
kind
of
boring
notice.
When
we
provide
a
notice
of
the
meeting,
we
provide
the
agenda
the
date,
the
time
and
the
place
right
now.
The
place
happens
to
be
in
your
computer.
N
As
far
as
the
agenda,
when
we
provide
agenda
here,
we
go
when
we
when
we
prepare
an
agenda,
the
agenda
must
include
the
items
that
the
commission
will
be
discussing
and
deciding
with
reasonable
specificity.
N
N
If
a
member
of
the
public
raises
an
issue,
then
we
can
briefly
discuss
it,
but
generally
those
are
things
we
need
to
avoid
and
it
sometimes
happens
on
an
application
where
there
is
a
suggestion
that
you
broaden
the
scope
of
the
application
to
include
work
that
is
not
proposed.
Those
are
things
that
we
actually
can't
decide
on
at
a
meeting,
and
occasionally
we'll
say
you
know,
that's
that's
a
nice
idea,
but
we
we
can't
actually
vote
on
that
tonight.
N
I
can't
think
of
a
specific
example
right
now,
but
I
know
we've
we've
encountered
that
in
the
past,
where
it
has
been
suggested
that
we
we
have
an
applicant,
do
some
additional
work
on
the
project
and
we
have
to
call
a
timeout
meeting.
Minutes
are
super
important
to
people
like
me,
they
should
be
super
important
to
people
like
members
of
the
commission.
N
Not
always
the
most
exciting
thing
to
talk
about.
One
thing
that
we
want
to
make
sure
is:
the
meeting
minutes
are
accurate.
Now
that
doesn't
mean
that
we're
taking
a
verbatim
transcript
of
what
happened
at
the
meeting,
where
required
under
law
to
have
the
minutes
generally
reflect
the
conversation
at
the
meeting.
N
Who
is
there
the
nature
of
the
items
discussed
the
votes
and
a
record
by
each
person,
as
you
see
a
record
by
individual
member
each
vote
that
was
taken
and
then
name
of
people
who
are
not
a
member
of
the
public
body.
Now
the
minutes
are
supposed
to,
like,
I
said,
be
a
reflection
of
the
meeting.
Perhaps
you
said
something
that
you
regret
and
when
it
comes
to
voting
on
an
approval
of
the
minutes,
you
think
that
you
might
want
to
have
the
minutes
say
something
different.
N
We're
not
revising
history.
Excuse
me,
my
throat
is
getting
really
dry,
we're
not
revising
history,
we're
trying
to
keep
an
accurate
record
of
of
what
happened
at
the
meeting.
N
I
don't
have
a
drink
by
me.
This
is
going
to
get
really
weird
closed
meetings.
I
don't
know
that
the
historic
landmark
commission
has
ever
actually
gone
into
a
closed
meeting
and
the
only
time
that
we
would
ever
actually
do.
That
would
be
to
discuss
litigation.
There
are
other
reasons,
but
realistically
I
can't
see
the
landmark
commission
getting
involved
in
a
conversation
about
acquisition
of
property
or
discussing
the
character,
professional
competence
or
physical
mental
health
of
an
individual.
There
are
several
other
reasons
really.
N
The
only
one
that
we
would
ever
have
a
purpose
for
going
into
a
closed
meeting
would
be
to
discuss
litigation
issues,
and
that
generally,
would
be
after
an
appeal
had
occurred
and
a
matter
had
been
referred
back
to
the
landmark
commission.
But
in
order
to
do
so,
and
I'm
required
to
tell
you
this
and
and
if
we
ever
cross
this
bridge
I'll
remind
you,
you
need
to
have
a
quorum
present.
N
N
There
will
be
minutes
taken
of
the
closed
meeting,
but
those
are
not
subject
to
a
public
records
request
under
the
government.
Records
access
and
management
act
also
known
as
grandma
electronic.
N
Fun
we,
you
know
the
years
that
I've
done
this
training.
This
has
always
been
an
afterthought,
not
anymore.
This
is
how
we
hold
our
meetings.
Now,
as
you
see,
we
may
not
hold
an
electronic
meeting
unless
you've
adopted
a
resolution
rule
or
ordinance.
N
N
The
commission
is
allowed
to
see
that
the
recent
changes
allow
for
the
public
body
to
convene
and
conduct
an
electronic
meeting
without
an
anchor
location.
If
the
chair
of
the
public
body
determines
that
conducting
the
meeting
with
an
anchor
location
presents
a
substantial
risk
in
the
beginning
of
our
meeting.
N
We
heard
commissioner
villa
make
that
finding
and
announce
that
we
are
meeting
electronically
or
if
the
chair
determines
that
the
location
where
public
body
would
normally
meet
has
been
ordered
closed
to
the
public
for
health
or
safety
reasons,
also
something
we
wouldn't
normally
talk
about,
but
for
the
last
year
and
a
half,
the
city
and
county
building
had
been
closed
due
to
earthquake
damage.
I'm
not
sure
if
members
of
the
commission
are
aware
that
the
city
and
county
building
is
now
open
to
the
public.
N
There
are
processes
as
far
as
getting
in
the
building
you've
got
to
check
in
with
security,
and
generally
you
need
to
make
appointments
with
the
folks
who
you'd
go.
Talk
to
this
is
sort
of
a
sorry,
a
side
note,
because
I
knew
somebody
would
ask
the
question
when
the
city
and
county
building
may
be
open.
It
is
open
now
it
opened
to
the
public
on
monday.
N
And
I'm
trying
to
imagine
the
scenario
where
you
would
do
that
if,
if
we
were
at
the
low
the
anchor
location,
if
there
were
some
sort
of
a
safety
health
concern,
that
would
be
kind
of
weird.
But
you
know
the
last
years
brought
us
a
lot
of
weird,
so
maybe
we'll
see
that
happen
someday
that's
kind
of
really
it.
I
know
I
skimmed,
through
this
babs
has
been
really
really
enjoying
this.
So
much.
N
Yes,
wear
a
mask,
that's
exactly
what
what
we
mean
when
you
enter
the
city
and
county
building,
a
different
kind
of
a
mask
but
wear
a
mask
and
then
disre
disruption
of
meetings.
This
is
again
kind
of
a
weird
thing,
but
the
state
legislature
adopted
a
negative
standard
instead
of
saying
don't
disrupt
meetings.
The
state
legislature
adopted
this
standard.
That
basically
says
we
don't
have
to
tolerate
disruption
in
a
meeting
and
then
violation
of
the
open
meetings
law.
N
In
addition
to
eroding
the
public
trust,
any
action
that
is
taken
in
violation
of
the
open
public
meetings
act
could
be
deemed
void
by
court
and
then
the
consequence
would
be
to
do
it
over
again.
However,
there
are
personal
consequences,
as
you
see
in
the
bottom
paragraph
here.
If
a
member
knowingly
or
intentionally
violates
the
open,
a
public
meetings
act,
it
is
possible.
You
could
be
charged
with
a
class
b
misdemeanor
to
my
knowledge.
That
has
never
happened
in
this
state.
N
It's
not
to
say
that
people
haven't
knowingly
unwillingly
violated
the
open
and
public
meetings
act,
but
I
I
don't
believe
that
anybody
has
been
a
prosecutor
for
that.
That's
kind
of
really
all
I
I
have
as
far
as
the
the
actual
open
public
meetings
act,
there's
always
in
addition
to
it
that
we
talk
about,
and
that
is
the
planning
commission
policies
or
sorry
landmark.
Commission
policies
and
procedures
prohibit
ex
parte
communications.
N
This
is
sort
of
like
a
companion
subject,
where
we're
having
conversations
outside
of
our
public
meetings
with
the
folks
that
that
we
shouldn't
pursue
into
the
policies
and
procedures
and
ex
parte
communication
is
basically
a
communication
about
the
subject
that
will
be
heard
by
the
landmark
commission
with
a
member
of
the
public
who
may
be
interested
with
the
applicant
or
with
somebody
else,
who's,
not
staff.
N
It's
certainly
appropriate
for
members
of
the
commission
to
reach
out
to
staff
and
ask
questions
if
there's
something
that
you
may
be
unsure
of
that
you're
concerned
about,
you
would
like
to
be
discussed,
but
your
policies
and
procedures
suggest
that
you
should
avoid
having
conversations
with
applicants
or
other
interested
parties.
If
you
do,
the
consequence
is
that
you
should
recuse
yourself
from
the
meeting
at
which
that
item
is
discussed,
that's
kind
of
really
all
I
have.
I
know
that
this
is.
This
has
been
so
much
fun
again.
A
Well,
real,
okay,
this
being
my
first
training,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
for
the
training.
A
N
It's
it
really
is
not
the
most
exciting
thing
to
talk
about,
but
especially
right
now
in
the
the
climate
that
we're
in
with
civic
discourse
being
in
such
a
challenging
place,
it's
probably
one
of
the
most
important
things
we
can
actually
talk
about
here.
So
appreciate
you
listening
and
if
you
do
have
any
questions
now
feel
free
to
ask.
If
not,
you
can
always
shoot
me
an
email
if
you
think
of
something
later.
A
N
B
Well,
thank
you
very
much
and
I
I
want
to
thank
the
staff
and
and
all
of
the
commissioners
it
it's
interesting
to
me
how
you
know
when
I
describe
to
to
people.
B
You
know
this
this
commission
and
why
I
do
it
and
I
I
think
everyone
who
is
here
does
it
because
of
how
we
feel
about
the
city
and
being
able
to
participate
in
in
its
growth
and
it's
it's
history,
and-
and
you
know
it
it's
a
it's
a
very
satisfying
thing
to
to
do,
and
I
know
babs
you
probably
have
been
on
this.
This
commission,
you
know
for
more
more
years
than
most
of
us
have,
but
it's
it's
you
know,
thank
you
all
for
for
the
work
that
you
do.