►
From YouTube: Clojure visual-tools meeting 1
Description
This was the first work meeting of a new dev group for collaborations around Clojure visual tools -- tools for data visualization and literate programming.
Background: https://clojureverse.org/t/visual-tools-group-meeting-1/
Zulip topic thread: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/313390-visual-tools/topic/meeting.201
A
Hello,
this
is
the
first
meeting
of
a
new
group,
a
closure
group
around
visual
tools
by
visual
tools.
We
need
tools
that
allow
us
to
use
data
visualizations,
typically
in
a
very
dynamic
and
playful
way,
and
to
create
documents.
Visual
documents
like
in
this
literate
programming
fashion
and
things
around
that
and
in
this
meeting
we
will
start
to
organize
ourselves
as
a
group
and
we'll
begin
by
a
few
updates
of
the
people.
A
B
So
I
think
it
was
pavel
who,
when
we
were
going
around
doing
introductions
who
talked
about
like
having
a
a
like
a
knowledge
based
knowledge
store.
This
is
my
prototype.
I
actually
use
this
live
in
production
for
my
work,
and
so
I
have
to
be
very
careful
about
what
goes
on
my
screen,
because
I
didn't
have
time
to
put
up
a
put
together
a
dog
and
pony
show.
So
what
what
I
have
here,
there's
really
two
pieces
of
this.
The
first
piece
is
that
everything
that
you
see
inside
the
window
is
completely
dynamic.
B
I
it's
like
I
like
using
tools
namespace
to
reload
and
there's
a
file
watcher
that
does
that
and-
and
there
are
a
couple
of
other
things-
let's
see
if
I
can
find
a
namespace
quickly-
is
the
the
the
text
big
enough
or
do
I
need
to
make
it
bigger?
Actually,
I
will
make
it
bigger,
just
let's
do
with
that.
I'll.
Come
back
to
that
in
a
second.
B
I
want
ultimately
to
be
able
to
edit
the
thing
from
within
itself
but
similar
to
like
clerk,
and
I
think,
there's
another
thing
in
the
size
space
that
allows
you
to
do
notebooks
inside
of
a
namespace.
You
can
also
just
use
a
your
regular,
editor
and
and
reple
also.
So,
let's
go
on
down
here.
The
the
ui
code
here
is
based
on
eclipse
swt,
and
I
picked
us
eclipse
swt,
because
it's
mature
and
because
it
it
is
very
rigorous
in
following
its
own
naming
conventions
to
construct
a
widget.
B
B
So
what
that
means
is
that
for
me,
as
a
library
implementer
making
a
closureus
closurish
kind
of
implementation
of
this,
I
can
actually
generate
the
api
at
compile
time
in
a
macro
by
reflectively,
going
through
the
swt
widgets
that
are
available
on
the
class
path,
which
also
means
that
they,
like
the
library,
is
open,
which
also
means
that
the
library
itself
is
less
than
a
thousand
lines
of
code
that
mostly
doesn't
have
to
change
in
order
to
support
new
stuff.
So
it's
still
very
early.
B
So
that's
a
quick,
really
quick
whirlwind
thing
here
over
here.
I
don't
know
how
easy
this
is
to
read
this
tab.
Here
is
a
clerk
notebook
and
I'm
not
gonna
for
time
sake,
I'm
not
going
to
go.
Do
it,
but
basically
this
page
here
it's
set
up
so
that
it
refreshes
which
up
with
whatever
clerk
notebook
you've
saved,
most
recently
in
your
editor
in
your
in
your
code,
editor,
whether
it's
emacs
or
I'm,
using
vs
code
here
or
whatever,
and
so
what
I
do.
B
The
way
I
use
this
right
now
is
at
the
beginning
of
a
excuse
me.
When
I'm
doing
a
story,
I
copy
and
paste
the
story
out
of
jira
into
a
a
namespace
named
after
the
number
of
the
the
jira
id,
and
it's
all
in
comments,
I
pretty
it
up
with
with
markdown
and
then
this
this
this
program
here
that
I've
called
sidebar.
It
already
has
a
connection
to
my
the
dev
database.
It
already
has
connections
to
all
the
things
and
it
has
and.
B
And
so
so,
similar
to
I'm
for
black
hand
his
name
right
now
what
he
was
saying
about
being
able
to
integrate
kind
of,
like
a
knowledge
base,
this
a
lot.
This
is
a
primitive
way
of
doing
that,
where
I
can
already
have
the
knowledge
base
where
the
the
viewing
the
thing,
let
me
see
if
I
can
get
this
up
fast,
not
what
I
wanted
notebook.
B
B
Okay,
it's
not
gonna,
I'm
not
gonna
troubleshoot
we're
viewing
the
thing
it
will
automatically
run.
Whatever
queries
I've
used,
it
provides
a
a
work,
a
documentation
of
the
work
I've
done
so
far,
so
I
can
pick
up
immediately
where
I
was.
It
integrates
all
the
things
and
so
I'm
I
think
that
that's
a
a
good
starting
place
for
doing
some
of
the
things
that
some
of
us
have
already
said.
We
want
to
do
and
I'll
stop
there.
Any
questions.
A
B
Wish
sure
my
name
is
dave.
Orm
I've
worked
in
client-side
user
interface
since
the
late
1980s,
when
it
was
on
one
client
side.
User
interface
was
applisoft
basic
on
an
apple
ii,
two
plus
and
have
been
there
to
the
present.
Of
course,
I
do
server
side
as
well.
These
days
my
experience
in
enclosure
is
I've
been
doing
quite
a
bit
on
the
side.
It's
the
most
productive
language.
I've
ever
worked
in.
I
can
do
stuff
in
it
that
I
could
never
do
otherwise
professionally.
A
Thank
you
so
much
for
this,
and
I
think
we'll
not
do
questions
now,
because
there
are
a
few
presentations
and
then
afterwards
there
will
be
time
for
discussion
for
those
who
can
stay
and
yeah
and
then
for
all
the
others.
Let
us
try
to
do
something
like
that.
Just
a
few
minutes,
and
maybe
tell
just
a
few
words
about
yourselves
and
what
you
wish
to
update
about
and
thank
you
so
much
dave
and
mauricio
would
you
like
and
to
present
oh.
C
C
C
The
story
of
visual
tools
in
this
project
begins
when
I
decided
that
I
wanted
to
create
an
interactive
render,
so
it's
a
way
to
evaluate
code
render
in
the
result
and
the
ui
and
somehow
allow
the
programmer
to
interact
with
the
result,
even
by
round
tripping
to
the
rival.
For
example,
I
run
the
repo
get
a
result
and
then
update
my
ui,
with
the
result
that
I
got
from
the
repo.
C
This
is
called
an
interactive
render
it's
in
both
chlorine
and
clover,
but
then
it
became
the
problems
because
chlorine
was
originally
not
thought
about
that.
So
it's
kind
of
like
an
afterthought
that
is
becoming
it's
slowly
becoming
a
first
class.
So
a
simple
example
of
what
an
interactive
renderer
is
it's
exactly
this
one,
you
evaluate
something
that
have
a
html,
that's
more
like
a
hiccup
regent
thing,
and
then
you
can
like
get
handlers
and
everything
and
it
works
exactly
as
you
would
expect
if
you
are
familiar
with
regions.
C
C
It
doesn't
speak
clojurescript
at
all.
So
what
I
did
in
chlorine,
the
result
was:
chlorine
runs
node,
so
I
can
render
at
the
editor
a
html
file
or
in
this
case
a
hiccup
file
and
in
the
html
file
I
can
access
node.js
libraries.
So
I
used
the
node.js
version
for
vegan
vigor
light,
and
then
I
just
added
some
bindings
so
that
the
plugins
and
sci
could
identify
that
vega
is
on
the
not
in
the
class
path,
because
this
node
it's
on
the
required
path
for
node.
So
everything
works.
Everything
is
happy,
but
then
it
exists.
C
C
Sorry,
so,
okay,
so
a
evaluate
code
is
serialized.
This
is
a
string
message.
I
parse
the
result
I
render
in
the
web
view,
but
if
I
have
something
that's
node,
I
must
serialize
everything
in
a
string
and
it
it
will
not
never
work.
I
mean
this
is
a
callback.
How
do
I
call
back
something
to
here
it's
impossible,
so
new
ideas
that
I
came
was
to
allow
the
full
customization
over
the
rendering
process.
Right
now,
as
I
told
interactive,
render,
is
some
kind
of
afterthought.
C
I
am
deciding
on
doing
and
transforming
it
on
first
class,
so
anyone
can
decide
how
I
want
to
render
vector
maps
and
sets
and
everything
else.
So
I
could
customize
how
I
want
to
render
that
on
with
metadata.
For
example,
I
could
sign
a
function
that
I
want
to
render.
I
don't
know
as
a
chess
board
and
chlorine,
you
automatically
discover
that
and
use
a
chessboard,
and
this
will
need
metadata
support
on
the
repo.
C
We
don't
have
that
now.
Also
remember,
that's
the
socket
repo.
So
there's
no
unrepo,
there's
you
don't.
We
don't
expect
these
things
to
be
on
the
class
path
and
we
don't
want
to
inject
these
things.
These
things
on
the
class
path.
This
is,
I
think,
the
most
challenging
pro
process
of
this
whole
idea
and
to
work
with
vs
code.
We
are
kind
of
trying
on
compiling
ojs
visual
libraries
with
web
back
and
this
and
web
views.
I
did
a
proof
of
concept,
but
it's
really
slow
and
it's
not
very
reliable.
C
C
I
can't
rely
on
like
plugins
that
may
exist
only
on
the
class
path
because,
for
example,
in
lumo
or
in
babashka,
the
concept
of
class
path
do
not
exist,
exactly
basket
does
but
anyway
in
bbb
it
doesn't,
and
I
really
want
chlorine
to
become
a
data
exploration
tool
like
portal
rebel.
Also,
if
people
want
to
do
data
science
inside
they
get
their
editors
would
be
great
too,
and
there's
a
lot
of
unexplored
potentials
right
now.
C
I
only
support
jes
based
editors,
but
I
could
use
like
websocket
to
connect
to
a
web
view,
and
the
web
of
view
could
be
a
browser,
for
example,
so
vim
now
vim
other
editors.
I
don't
know
if
vmax
would
work
because
it
doesn't
run
javascript,
but
maybe
we
can
like
start
a
node.js
server
and
make
the
communication
with
it,
but
it
is
you're
missing
the
visual
components
and
it
needs
to
be
either
enclosure
script
or
in
javascript.
C
A
E
E
Yes,
it
is
okay,
it's
is
it.
Is
it
wide
or
is
it
like
1080p
there's,
I
think
it's
great
yeah,
okay,
okay,
cool,
just
making
sure
okay,
so
I've
been
working
on
this
feature
in
portal,
where
you
don't
rely
so
much
on
tap,
because
maybe
I
don't
know
if
people
are
familiar
with
tap
is
like
how
you
can
send
data
to
places
like
visual
tools,
but
so
so
sometimes
you
don't
always
want
to
tap.
Sometimes
you
just
want
to
watch
something
whether
it
be
an
atom
or
anything
else.
E
E
But
what
I
wanted
to
also
be
able
to
build
is
like
dashboards
because,
like
the
ui
is
getting
a
little
bit
complicated
and
I
want
to
be
able
to
track
its
state.
So
if
I
open
up
the
web
portal,
that's
connected
to
my
ui,
I
did
that
with
command
shift,
o
here's
kind
of
what
I'm
envisioning
or
here's.
What
I,
what
I
want
to
be
able
to
build
with
with
portal
for
specific
applications
right,
I
want
to
be
able
to
monitor
my
app
state
I
want
to
be.
E
I
do
want
taps,
but
I
want
them
to
be
like
another
thing,
not
the
main
thing
and
then
for
this
for
the
way
that
portal
works.
I
have
like
an
rpc
log
that
I
want
to
maintain
just
to
make
sure
that
things
are
working
as
I
expect,
and
so
the
code
for
this
looks
like
this,
where
it's
just
some
hiccup
right
here
and
I
say:
hey
use
the
hiccup
viewer.
E
I
have
some
like
styling
right
right
here
and
right
here.
I
have
labels
for
the
different
parts
of
my
state,
and
then
I
just
render
the
inspector
for
the
different
atoms
that
I
have
and
that's
kind
of
what
you're
seeing
right
here
is
that
this
little
draft
is
implying
that
this
value
is
coupled
to
an
atom
right.
If
I
wanted
to
not
de-rough
it
up,
I
just
want
to
do
like
view
the
inspector
for
or
maybe
pretty
print
it
right.
E
E
Here's
what
I
got
returned
right.
This
is
how
I
populate
some
of
the
command
in
information
like
if
I'm
over
here
and
I
do
command
shift
p
right
and
one
of
the
functions
I
got
back
was
the
bean
function,
here's
the
dock
string,
so
it's
kind
of
a
little
bit
of
a
look
inside
of
how
it's
implemented
but
right.
E
E
So
if
I
close
this
like
a
more
simpler
use
case,
I
guess
is
like
right
here
so
in
in
conjunction
with
that,
instead
of
setting
the
tap
or
sorry,
I
don't
know
if
you
guys
noticed,
but
the
way
I
did
that
is
when
I
opened
up
portal,
I
passed
it
a
value
which
was
the
like
dashboard,
which
is
like
that
hiccup
stuff.
So
to
like,
simplify
that
a
little
bit,
let
me
come
over
here.
Let
me
close
this
portal
and
say
no.
E
E
E
Whatever
the
atom
is:
that's
at
the
root,
so
it
kind
of
makes
sense,
but
it
breaks
into
the
ux
but
yeah,
it's
it's
nice,
because
now
you
can
just
if
you
just
want
to
like
hard
reset
the
value
that's
there
and
the
this
is
different
than
the
portal
atom,
because
it's
not
the
the
portal
atom
is
about
dereferencing
values
that
are
selected
right.
So
right
here
I
opened
up
with
value.
It's
called
dev.
E
A
A
A
F
D
Okay,
so
can
everybody
see
this?
This
looks
like
mostly
white
window
with
closure
code
in
it
sort
of
yes,
okay.
So
what
I
made
was
a
it
basically
just
views
edit
data.
You
can
also
view
json
there's
a
web
version.
This
is
running
on
the
jvm,
so
this
is
in
process,
which
is
nice.
If
you're
working
on
the
jvm
and
the
bay
I
mean
the
big
feature
is
that
you
can
kind
of
resize
it
and
it
will
try
to
use.
D
D
A
F
F
It's
it's
a
mostly
back-end
thing
for
tracing
and
has
this
visual
component,
which
is
why
I'm
in
the
visual
space
now.
But
the
thing
I
wanted
to
show
is
that
I
ran
into
this
project.
It's
called
microsoft,
sent
dance
and
it
has
a
sub
component.
That's
called
vega
deck
jl,
the
xjl
is
its
own
library
and
it
does
webgl
stuff
with
a
little
bit
nicer
with
a
nicer
api
and
they
have
a
bigger
deck
gl
that
lets.
You
use
your
vega
specifications
and
they
get
rendered
in
a
3d
canvas.
F
So
a
webgl
canvas
I've
got
a
little
playground.
In
my
thing,
this
is
the
the
3d
version
you
can
just
you
can
zoom
in
zoom
out
without
actually
doing
the
it
by
hand
I
to
do
it
in
my
project.
I
had
to
where's
my
thing.
I
had
to
code
this
into
the
into
the
specification.
This
thing
lets
you:
do
it
right
immediately,
and
this
is
half
a
million
points
and
it's
pretty
nice
and
fast
and
works
without
me
doing
anything.
The
code
for
this
is
not
complicated.
F
It's
inside
my
playground
in
the
omnitrace
repo,
it's
a
little
bit
much,
but
it's
mostly
just
raw
data.
It's
an
omnitrace
death
playground.
If
somebody
wants
to
play
around
with
it,
but
mostly
it's
just
coding
the
bigger
deck
gl
view
gl
instead
of
the
normal
vega
stuff
and
rendering
in
the
deck
jail,
and
then
it
basically
runs
without
doing
anything
extra
and
I
would
say
around
80
percent
of
the
usual
vigorous
back
works.
I've
been
playing
around
with
it.
A
G
I
don't
know
exactly
it's
because
it's
okay,
you
know.
Okay,
I
can
give
a
very,
very,
very
brief
hand,
wavy
thing
and
then
suggest
people
if
they're
interested
they
can
watch
the
more
detailed
intro
to
citate
that
was
presented
at
the
closure,
boston
meetup,
which
is
linked
in
some
zulu
channels.
So
if
anybody
actually
cares
about,
then
they
can
take
a
look
at
that,
so
this
is
going
to
be
super
quick.
G
Presentation
that
I
gave
actually,
but
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
hardly
any
of
this,
I'm
just
going
to
say:
okay,
saita,
is
this
thing?
It's
a
standalone
application,
it's
very
different
from
pretty
much
anything
else.
That's
been
discussed,
it's
its
focused
more
on
easy,
rather
than
simple.
So
literally
the
quick
to
hand
kind
of
stuff-
and
the
main
reason
is-
is
because
you
don't
want
to
have.
G
I
just
don't
want
to
have
ceremonies,
and
things
like
that
when
I
want
to
dive
in
and
start
doing,
data
exploration,
visualization
and
stuff
like
that
and
also
people
in
the
labs
they're.
You
know
they
don't
want
to
be
trying
to
learn
big
ides
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff,
because
those
people
that
they're
not
programmers
per
se
they're
sort
of
programmers.
But
let's
put
it
this
way:
they're,
not
software
developers
how's
that
so
anyways.
This
thing
has
very
strong,
dynamic
dependencies.
You
don't
need
to
set
up
projects
or
that
kind
of
stuff.
G
G
G
But
when
you
load
this
thing
up,
you
can
select
your
experiments
here.
Updates
all
these
sorts
of
things
you
can
mice
are
always
kind
of
interesting
and
click
go
and
it
grinds
away
for
a
while.
All
of
this
is
being
when,
when
the
spinner
is
going
all
that's
being
run
on
the
jvm,
so
there's
218
million
reads
in
this
thing:
there's
a
bunch
of
information
here
for
the
biologists.
G
G
G
If
you
want
to
publish
things,
the
nice
thing
is
is
yeah,
you
do
have
emacs
vm
and
sublime
it's
all
written
in
codemir,
so
because
of
that,
all
the
editors
are
programmable
with
clojurescript,
and
that
gives
you
a
very,
very
potent
ability
to
do
transformations
and
all
sorts
of
other
interrogation
of
the
code
in
the
editors
as
true
structural
editing.
So
you
can
basically
grab
the
the
text.
Turn
it
into
close
your
data
structures
and
off
you
go
code.
G
So
there's
a
little
bit
of
stuff
here
about
how
that
works,
more
details
in
that
other
presentation,
there's
a
couple
of
flavors
of
the
this
tab
thing.
Well,
this
is
kind
of
just
like
what
we
have
here.
You
can
organize
documents.
You
can
create
things
like
tabs
that
contain
the
widgets
and
the
codes
this
this.
This
uses
database
stuff
and
everything
else.
So
there's
all
kinds
of
junk
going
on
here.
You
can
sort
of
structure
that,
with
these
tabs
there's
a
couple
of
kinds
of
tabs.
G
I'm
very
close
to
done
my
friend,
so
anyways,
there's
two
flavors
of
those
things
where
you
can
create
stuff
like
this
and
then
another
one.
That's
literally
just
we
can
show
it
over
here
as
an
example
where
you
have
editor
and
output
and
it's
like
there,
you
go
it's
it's
very
much
like
an
emacs
kind
of
a
thing
and
yeah.
So
if
you're
interested
in
more
about
this
thing,
you
can
look
at
that
intro
and
maybe,
if
you're
further
interested,
you
can
attend
the
next
one
next
thursday,
that's
it.
A
H
I
can
yeah
yes
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
daniel.
I
am,
I
think
I
mean
I'm
just.
I
was
just
kind
of
sort
of
improvising
while
people
were
talking
at
the
same
time
paying
attention
what
you
were
saying.
But
what
I
have
is
this
here.
I've
made
some
notes,
so
I
think
if
you
know
after
this
meeting
or
maybe
just
now-
I
don't
know
daniel
absent
I've
sent
the.
H
Yeah,
I
think
so
is
this:
browser
isn't
gonna
work
well,
this
is
awful,
but
fine,
fine.
So
so
I
made
some
notes
so
that
maybe
could
be
something
that
people
can
then
add
to
the
nose,
especially
if
you
especially
people
who
present
it.
I
think,
just
from
just
to
keep
record
of
today's
meeting.
If
you
want
to
reference
that
in
the
future
or
just
post
it
somewhere,
that
would
be
nice.
This
is
just
the
starting
point.
H
So
so
this
is
just
a
starting
point.
So
I've
just
put
a
couple
of
examples
of
things,
but
I'm
sure
everyone
who's
was
actively
involved
in
developing
those
tools
are
going
to
have
you'll,
have
better
ideas
of
what
to
put
here
and
then
kind
of
collaborate
and
work
out
sort
of
work
out
work
out
the
dimensions
of
on
waitre.
We
should
kind
of
look
look
at
the
stores
yeah.
So
that's
my
two
cents.
H
H
H
H
Once
we
have
those
all
those
things
filled
in,
we
will
have
a
better
sort
of
understanding
of
of
the
landscape.
I
think
so
so
on
its
own.
It's
kind
of
valuable
thing,
maybe
to
share
with
people
who
are
making
those
decisions
and
so
on
so
on.
But
I
think
this
is
important
for
for
us
to
see
like
what
other
people
are
doing
in
this
space.
H
So
so
so
we
all
kind
of
have
better
awareness
of
the
landscape,
but
we
can
start
with
this
just
as
a
sort
of
first
approx.
Approximation,
so
it'd
be
nice
to
hear
people
thoughts
about
like
about
the
goals
for
the
projects
and
ambitions
of
for
the
of
further
projects
and
platforms
they
want
to
support
and
what
what
they
think
could
be
like.
There's
a
little
little
point,
I've
kind
of
added
here.
H
A
E
A
F
Yeah,
I
think,
though,
we've
been
talking
beforehand
all
right
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
we
noticed
was
that
everybody
is
coming
at
it
from
a
little
bit
different
perspective
and
we're,
like
I
was
saying
yeah
most
of
us
are
using
vega
for
something,
but,
like
others
aren't,
so
they
probably
aren't
that
interested
to
be
like
in
the
vega
workshop
meetup.
Whatever
and
other
people
are
using
closure
script,
others
are
using
whatever.
F
Who
has
there,
which
has
like
viewers
and
the
viewers
could
be
maybe
shared
between
like
portal
and
clerk
or
us
as
well,
since
the
deaths
of
viewers
as
well,
and
then
we
would
have
sub
groups
for
like
vega
and
viewers
and
then
we
would
have
subgroups,
for
I
don't
know,
maybe
like
okay.
How
do
we
do
interaction
with
the
user
because
everybody
needs
hotkeys
in
their
tool
and
so
on?
A
That
is
great
yeah
yeah,
so
maybe
maybe
one
way
we
could
go
about
this
list
now
is
that
we
could-
and
I
mean
anybody
could
share
their
thoughts
about
all
these
aspects
about
what
should
be
added
here
to
any
of
these
lines,
these
rows
of
the
table
right,
for
example,
what
could
be
their
subgroups,
what
kind
of
meetings
we
should
have,
or
what
are
the
goals
and
ambitions
or
whatever?
So
is
it
good
that
anybody
here
would
like
to
briefly
share
thoughts
about
any
of
these
roles?
A
D
Okay,
so
I've,
I
I
like
making
these
visualizations
and
kind
of
trying
to
find
interesting
ways
to
explore
heterogeneous
data.
That's
kind
of
larger
than
can
just
print
it
out
to
the
repel,
but
I'm
not
unless
interested
in
making
things
like
really
cool
things
like
portal
and
reveal
which
are
kind
of
modes
for
combining
all
these
things
together
and
letting
you
explore
them
and
doing
all
the
shortcuts
and
making
that
process
making.
D
That
piece
really
work
great
and
the
so
I
I
have
my
own
ui
library
called
membrane,
and
it
you
can
it's
a
platform
agnostic,
so
basically
any
environment
where
you
can
draw
shapes
text
and
images
it
can
render
to.
So
if
there
is
a
kind
of
plug-in
interface
that
I
can
program
to
you,
that
would
be
ideal
for
me,
because
I
can
just
make
these
visualizations.
D
E
E
G
E
G
G
A
A
Yeah,
so
maybe
maybe
pavilla
I'll
ask
to
add
something
to
the
subgroups,
which
is
this
question
of
compatibility
of
how
we
create
bridges
across
tools
that
allow
to
create
an
ecosystem
that
grows
well,
and
that
is
something
I
hope
just
a
few
of
us
could
kind
of
continuously
discuss
as
a
group.
Does
it
make
sense?
This
compatibility
topic.
C
F
And
I
think
it
would
also
be-
I
don't
know
if
anybody's
interested
at
all,
but
we're
mostly
like
right
now
we're
mostly
talking
about
collaboration
on
the
tooling
side
and
like
building
the
tools.
I
don't
know
if
anybody
here
is
interested
in
like
presenting
those
tools
to
them
like
the
bigger
community
or
like
making
it
new
friendly,
which,
like
I
don't
know,
if
that's
the
right
term
for
it,
but
I've
like
I've
not
shown
closure
to
like
multiple
people,
and
it
was.
F
I
was
like,
oh
yeah,
okay,
how
do
I
start
coding
in
it?
And
then
you
tell
them?
Oh
yeah
just
download
cover
and
it's
gonna
be
fine,
and
some
of
them
were
like
yeah,
but,
like
I
don't
know
what
to
do
in
it,
and
the
tools
have
kind
of
like
the
same
problems,
especially
once
they
get
a
little
bit
more
complex
like
when
I
started.
F
F
F
I'm
thinking
kind
of
like
a
subgroup
as
well,
where
it's
like.
Okay,
how
do
we
present
these
tools?
How
do
we
show
how
they
work?
How
do
we
tell
people?
Oh
yeah?
Okay,
so
you
just
started,
and
you
only
want
to
like
show
some
stuff.
Okay,
maybe
choose
between,
reveal
and
portal,
or
you
want
to
do
notebooks,
okay,
what
kind
of
notebooks
do
you
need?
Okay,
then
choose
also
clerk
or
whatever,
and
so
on.
F
H
H
H
You
know
the
the
the
look
of
this
tool
or
the
other
two
and
then
going
down
the
rabbit
hole
of
kind
of
learning
more
about
that
too,
and
if
there
is
more
resources
like
some
of
those
conversations,
conversations
are
maybe
end
up
being
helpful
to
other
people
as
well,
so
maybe
a
place
to
host
those
conversations
as
well.
There
used
to
be
this,
I
don't
know
what
happened.
H
Maybe
daniel
or
samia
actually
is
gone
now
but,
like
I
remember
like
even
the
previous
previously
reclosure,
like
I
don't
mean
2021
but
2020.,
I
think
there
was
there.
Was
this
cool
talk
from
sami
and
and
then
and
and
that
time
there
was
some
conversation
around
having
psychology
website
being
you
know,
I
don't
have
anything
happen
around
that.
Maybe
that
could
be
part
of
that
website.
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
maybe
a
brief
update.
The
cyclone
website
tried
to
be
like
an
entry
point
about
closure
tools
and
libraries
for
data
science,
and
it
never
became
complete.
And
now
these
very
days
our
friend
ethan
miller,
is
looking
into
it
and
trying
to
reorganize
things
so
that
there
will
be
a
clear
path
to
getting
the
first
answers
to
the
first
questions
around
data
science.
E
Yeah,
I
really
like
this
idea
of
someone
being
like
there's
a
lot
of
tools.
I
don't
know
which
one
I
want,
or
which
one
will
be
the
most
useful
to
me
right
now
and
kind
of
having
this
comparison
chart
to
guide
them
through
like
what
they
should
use
and
what
they
should,
because
there
are
more
and
more
options.
Now
so
and
they're
they're
all
focused
on
different
things.
F
Okay,
we,
I
don't
know
what
the
subscripts
are
gonna,
be
about,
having
the
subgroups
decide
how
often
they
meet
and
in
what
format
and
so
on,
but
having
also
like
an
umbrella
visual
tools,
thing
where
we
meet
everybody,
who's
doing
anything
in
this
space
and
wants
to
join
something
like
this
with.
Like
I
don't
know
if
we
wanted
to
do
more,
or
I
think
that
the
the
idea
for
this
one
was
to
be
very
informal
where
everybody
is
just.
F
A
Yeah
yeah,
it
might
make
a
little
bit
time
for
this
to
kind
of
become
systematic
but
yeah.
I
think
a
monthly
meeting
like
this
one
is
something
we
can
try,
not
every
time
everybody
can
join,
but
we
could
just
set
something
for
a
month
from
now
and
then
as
those
potential
subgroups,
we
could
just
have
first
ad
hoc
meetings
and
see
if
it
makes
sense
to
make
it
something
that
is
kind
of
continuous
and
yeah.
Sorry,
any
thoughts
about
that.
E
I
I
I
like
that.
I
think
I
have
one
one
like
subgroup.
I
would
not
like.
So
if
people
would
be
interested
in
is
discussing
implementation
details,
because
I
kind
of
like
want
to
see
how
people
implemented
their
thing
kind
of
and
what
I
can
learn
from
that
and
maybe
share
some
of
the
things
that
I've
learned
in
implementing
the
features
that
I've
implemented.
So
just
like,
specifically
like
it's
just
all
technical
all
of
them.
F
Do
you
think
it
makes
sense
to
have
that
as
a
like
its
own
group,
or
do
you
think
we
should
have
because
like
if
I'm,
if
I
have
like
a-
I,
don't
know
vega
group
and
then
I'm
gonna,
probably
present?
Okay?
What
strange
stuff
did
I
do
in
my
specification
to
get
like
fangirls
going
or
whatever
or
if
we're
talking
about?
I
don't
know
the
the
views
group
that
the
talking
about,
like
maybe
all,
sharing
the
same
views
and
then
it's
also
gonna
be
pretty
technical.
F
Nobody
knows
yeah
yeah,
I
don't
know
either,
and
I
think
it's
kind
of
I
like
the
idea
of
having
a
like
more
technical
and
here's
all
my
reduce
calls
group,
but
I
don't
know
if
maybe
like
it's
also
going
to
be
interesting
for
people
who
for
that
topic.
So
maybe
it
makes
sense
to
have
show
me
your
code
thing
be
on
topic
every
like
every
meeting.
I
just
wanted
to
say
every
week,
but
that
might
be
like
a
little
bit
much
but.
H
Would
there
be
a
sense,
maybe
of
trying
to
identify
certain
things
that
could
be
extracted
from
tools
and
reused
and
then
kind
of
setting
up
some
sort
of
sort
of
repos,
maybe
under
site
closure,
maybe
under
something
else
just
to
just
to
work
on
that?
Maybe
not
necessarily
sort
of
jumping
straight
away
to
the
to
you
know
to
that
really
sort
of
detailed
part
of
it,
but
at
least
kind
of
looking
for
some
some
tools
and.
H
F
Yeah,
I
think
that
was
like
one
of
the
most
interesting
parts
from
your
matrix
that
you
had
at
the
bottom,
where
it
was
the
generic
parts
that
could
be
ripped
out
and
be
made
into
its
own
library.
At
one
point
I
was
thinking
about
that
pulling
portal
apart
and
because
I
wanted
to
just
have
display
my
thing,
so
I
could
just
load
my
omnitrace
and
not
have
like
all
the
other
portal
components
and
then
like
after
two
hours
or
something
I
was
like.
F
Okay,
I'm
throwing
like
half
of
it
away,
which
is
also
strange,
but
there's
a
lot
of
like
sub
components
that
could
be
like
pulled
out
into
their
own
library
and
other.
The
other
of
these
tools
have
like
the
same
subparts,
where
we
could
like
squish
them
together
and
have
like
a
library
that
everybody
uses
if
it
makes
sense
for
them,
instead
of
everybody
building
it
like
integrated
into
the
tool.
E
If
you
do
this,
this
will
happen
and
if
a
lot
of
the
tools
do
the
same
thing,
then
users
can
be
like.
Oh,
I
know
how
to
do
this
because
I
learned
how
to
do
it
in
this
tool
and
now
I'm
proficient
in
this
other
tool
so
kind
of
like
having
some
common
ux
shared
patterns.
Would
be
nice,
that's
implementing.
F
F
So
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I
found
really
cool,
but
it's
a
little
bit
heavyweight,
as
I
said
for
some
of
the
tooling,
but
I
think
we've
got
multiple
e
style
of
things
and
it
could
be
pulled
out
of
other
the
things
so
that
like,
if
I
jump
from
one
tool
to
the
other,
I'm
like,
oh
yeah,
I'd,
know
this
command
palette.
I
can
just
use
it.
H
H
D
D
If
you're
working
on
the
jvm
having
in
process
visualizations
or
if
you're
working
in
closure
script
having
in-process
visualizations
I'd
like
to
get
a
sense
of
the
community
of
who's
on
the
jvm,
that's
using
kind
of
using
the
clojurescript
frontends
and
who's
on
the
jvm
I
mean
in
general.
Just
I
I'm
more
on
the
jvm
side,
I
like
the
in-process
stuff,
and
I
know
that
a
lot
of
the
front
ends
are
enclosure,
script,
so
kind
of
getting
a
sense
of
what
other
I
don't
know
who's.
D
A
Yeah,
that
is
great
by
the
way
we
are
about
around
the
official
time,
and
maybe
in
a
moment
let
us
ask
if
anybody
is
on
a
rush
and
needs
to
leave
or
matter
whether
it
is
good
actually
to
continue
a
little
bit
and
at
some
point
we'll
stop
the
recording
and
make
it
even
more
informal
any
thoughts
about
that.
Does
anybody
need
to
leave
soon
or
should
we
make
it
more
relaxed?
What
do
you
think.
H
A
A
A
Great,
so
maybe
we
will
say
goodbye
to
the
recording
and
to
our
friends
who
are
listening
to
this
session.
Please
reach
out.
Please
join
this
group
and
see
how
we
can
collaborate
together.
That
was
just
a
little
taste
of
the
common
thinking
process.
We
wish
to
have
as
a
group
and
we
will
continue
offline
on
the
chat
and
I
think
what
we
will
do
is
try
to
make
it
a
monthly
meeting
and
then,
throughout
the
month
add
some
ad
hoc
meetings
that
will
become
those
sub
groups.
A
Hopefully
so,
for
example,
crispy
suggested
this
idea
of
sharing
practices.
How
we
do
things
so
maybe
we
could
ask
chris
b
one
day
to
share
the
code
and
kind
of
go
through
the
code
of
portal
or
any
other
project
of
somebody.
We
could
have
a
session
just
about
that
just
learning
the
internals
of
a
tool
and
that
could
become
a
subgroup
if
it
makes
sense
and
we
had
those
other
ideas,
and
so
it
will
say
goodbye
now
and
keep
chatting
after
the
recording.