►
From YouTube: Clojure visual-tools meeting 5
Description
In this monthly meeting of the Clojure visual-tools group (Mar. 25th, 2022), we had a few updates about ongoing projects.
Summary: https://clojureverse.org/t/visual-tools-meeting-5-summary-video/
Zulip topic thread: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/313390-visual-tools/topic/meeting.205
A
Hello
here
we
are
again
in
a
monthly
meeting
of
the
visual
tools
group,
and
today
we
have
a
few
updates
by
a
few
of
the
members
about
ongoing
projects
by
andrew
and
adrian
and
vincent
and
myself,
and
then
afterwards,
we'll
have
a
little
chat,
and
maybe
if
it
is
okay,
even
though
everybody
knows
everybody,
it
would
be
nice
if
you
could
tell
something
about
yourself,
because
the
recording
goes
public
on
youtube
and
yeah.
Who
would
like
to
begin
with
what
they
may
like
to
share?
We
have
lots
of
time
today,
so
no
rush
with
anything.
B
C
C
C
D
I
can
go
hi,
I'm
andres,
I
work
doing
analytics
years
ago.
I
started
using
jupiter
and
python,
but
I
got
frustrated
with
some
language
issues
immutability
in
particular,
then
I
was
frustrated
also
with
some
of
the
limitations
of
the
notebook
in
terms
of
evaluation,
so
I
walked
away
from
that.
Did
other
things
I'm
back
doing
analytics
and
I
decided
that
my
current
workflow
is
really
inefficient.
I
create
data,
sets
and
then
bring
them
into
excel
and
make
charts,
and
I
want
to
do
that,
but
I
also
want
to
do
better
than
that.
D
E
A
Hi,
I'm
danielle.
I
have
been
involved
with
this
project
called
nodespace.
That
has
been
my
focus
as
a
as
a
library
as
a
tool
for
a
while,
and
nowadays
it
is
on
hold,
because
mostly
because
there
are
amazing
other
tools
in
this
space,
most
notably,
I
think
clerk
and
portal,
which
are
growing
so
beautifully.
A
So
my
approach
at
the
moment
is
to
drop
a
node
space,
probably
for
a
while
and
mostly
take
on
the
user
standpoint
as
andres
mentioned,
and
try
to
see
how
we
can
adapt
things
for
our
user
needs,
and
that
is
what
I
will
describe
today.
A
certain
user
facing
layer
on
top
of
the
currently
grown
tools
and
which
I
use
at
work
a
little
bit
and
ethan
hi.
Would
you
like
to
tell
a
bit
about
yourself.
F
But
all
these
visual
tools
are,
of
course
central
to
that,
and
so
I'm
here
mostly
following
that
story
along,
I
think
pragmatically,
just
important
to
keep
track
of
what's
going
on
there
and
then
even
more
pragmatically,
no,
like
kind
of
I'm
trying
to
learn
clerk,
which
is
even
though
I've
been
using
like
note,
space
and
other
tools
for
a
while.
It's
like
a
new
tool
for
me
trying
to
wrap
my
head
around
so
yeah,
I'm
just
here.
Listening.
G
A
Thank
you
so
much.
Thank
you
so
wonderful
to
have
you
great,
so
I
guess
we
will
begin
now
and
we
will
have
four
updates
by
a
few
of
us
who
have
been
doing
something
and
if
anybody
would
like
to
be
the
first
one
to
share
something,
then
that
would
be
great.
I
think
it
would
be
nice
if
we
try
to
make
it
about
10
minutes.
Maybe
12,
maybe
15..
We
have
time,
but
it
would
be
good
to
have
some
time
for
discussion
afterwards.
F
C
C
C
C
C
So
there
are
some
brackets
to
say
that
in
the
result
we
don't
want
to
have
a
node
called
node
here
forget
about
the
brackets,
because
it
defines
the
shape
of
the
result
check
what
is
inside
the
bracket
instead.
So
a
node
is
either
a
command,
a
void
element
tag
which
is
a
tag
which
is
only
opened
and
never
closed.
C
C
C
The
match
string
here
so
that
we
can
have
the
content
for
the
command,
so
I
pretty
much
do
the
same
for
the
other
type
of
notes,
so
I
describe
how
the
command
is
working.
The
void
element
is
here.
This
is
a
specific
rule
for
a
specific
set
of
tag
names,
so
I
will
just
skip
over
it.
For
now
there
is
the
open,
close
tags,
which
is
in
fact
a
set,
not
really
a
set.
It's
a
concatenation
of
some
things
happening
next
to
each
other
inside
the
html.
C
First,
you
see
opening
tag
and
then
inside
them
you
see
some
notes
and
then
some
closing
tag
notes
with
s
which
refers
to
this
rule
here,
which
is
defined
as
multiple
nodes,
one
after
the
other
one.
So
it's
a
kind
of
recursive
definition
from
here
to
here,
because
we
have
the
nodes
which
are
defined
with
something
which
is
a
function
of
the
nodes
and
because
we
have
this
recursion
here
we
have
enough
to
describe
a
recursive
structure
like
the
one
of
the
html.
C
C
C
C
It's
only
used
to
simplify
the
keycap
that
you
get
in
the
end,
because
the
parser
also
includes
the
spaces
and
chart
returns
the
new
line,
characters
inside
the
string
and
sometimes
in
the
hiccup
data
structure.
You
don't
want
them,
so
what
people
can
do
is
that
they
can
use
this
function
to
simplify
the
structure,
but
there
are
multiple
ways
to
simplify
a
structure
depending
on
what
result
you
want
to
get
so
probably
the
user
is
going
to
copy
past
this
implementation
into
their
own
code
base
and
modify
it,
and
that's
it.
C
C
C
Or
maybe
I
can
explain
a
little
bit
the
story
of
why
I
made
this
library
originally,
I
wanted
to.
I
needed
the
function
to
to
convert
the
html
to
hiccup
because
of
the
other
library
which
I
am
building.
The
name
is
marked
no
number
now
kick
down
and
hit
down
tries
to
to
be
compatible
with
the
specification,
command
mark
and
command
mark
comes
with
a
set,
a
larger
set
of
tests,
but
those
tests
contain
some
html
and
my
library
is
working
at
outputting,
some
hiccup
instead
of
html.
C
C
C
A
C
C
C
C
A
C
C
Tests
to
pass
in
order
to
be
compatible
with
markdown,
that's
quite
a
lot
so
far,
the
library
is
passing
about
almost
to
android
tested
so
tests.
So
it's
only
a
third
of
the
test,
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done
to
have
something
confirmed
to
the
standard
about
another
library.
I
wrote
of
rack
is
still
a
work
in
progress.
The
direction
of
the
library
is
is
is
well
established,
but
I
still
need
to
spend
a
lot
of
time
implementing
it.
So
maybe
it's
too
early
to
talk
about
it
yeah!
C
A
C
The
idea
was
to,
instead
of
tweaking
the
tool
to
match
what
the
user
was
wanted
to
do,
to
write
a
grammar
to
describe
a
set
of
rules
for
the
css
and
so
that
we
could
recognize
what
the
user
mean
when
you
write
some
text
that
could
be
converted
into
css.
So
that
was
the
idea
and
apparently
the
idea
was
good
because
tailwind
took
the
same
approach
and
there
was
another
project
which
was
developed
in
parallel
with
giroud,
not
by
me
independent
that
took
exactly
the
same
approach
as
well.
C
A
E
E
Cool
so
yeah,
for
so
during
a
couple
meetings
back,
I
gave
a
kind
of
like
longer
longer
talk
about
fabricate
the
static
website,
generator
that
I've
been
working
on
its
kind
of
origins,
the
the
context
for
its
use
and
like
why
I?
Why
and
how
I
think
it
differs
from
like
other
static
website
generators
in
that
that
already
exist
for
closure.
E
So
you
know
picking
the
representative
colors,
while
also
satisfying
those
constraints
is
a
kind
of
interesting,
optimization
problem
and
so,
like
I'm
working,
I'm
part
part
of
the
way
through
working
through
how
to
do
that
using
fabricate,
as
well
as
the
the
d-type
next
ecosystem.
Chris
nurberg
nurburgers,
excellent
libraries
that
have
a
tensor
api,
and
so
that's
how
I'm
using
working
with
the
colors
in
the
image.
So
just
a
just
a
brief
demo
of
like
of
how
fabricate
works.
E
The
page
on
the
right
is
is
just
a
it's
just
a
closure
name
space.
It's
it's
in
a
special
format
that
is
a
mixture
of
plain
text
and
closure
expressions
by
default.
It's
the
text
is
just
treated
as
ordinary
text
and
then
closure
expressions
are
delimited
by
emoji
here
and
like
vincent,
I
used
it's
the
parse
to
define
the
grammar
for
the
the
the
templates
right
now
fabricate
doesn't
use
any
anything
like
markdown.
You
know
you
could
see
that
like.
E
If
I
want
to
have
a
title
element,
I
just
use
the
corresponding
hiccup
element
instead
of
using
the
the
shorthand,
the
shorthand
notation,
so
how
this
works
is
that
I
have.
I
have
a
file
watcher
running
in
the
background
it's
running
in
process
in
my
rebel
and
then
as
soon
as
I
save
this,
it's
going
to
regenerate
it's
going
to
regenerate
the
page
on
the
right.
E
I'll
just
change
the
size
of
this
this
this
plot
here,
so
you
know
I
have
this.
I
have
this
painting
that
I
want
to
extract
the
colors
from
and
then
I
have
you
know
some
some
definitions
of
like
how
to
measure
the
relative
luminance
of
colors
as
well.
As
you
know,
some
demo
implementations
and
closure
and
then
I'm
trying
to
get
to
you
know
get
to
get
to
the
color
density.
So
this
is
a.
This
is
just
an
svg
plot.
E
So
now
our
plot
is
is
bigger,
as
you
can
see,
the
the
the
hue
and
saturation
representativeness
for
the
colors
is
not
it's
not
quite
it's
not
quite
working
like
I
expected
to
right
now.
It's
because
this
page
is
still
a
work
in
progress,
but
that's
just
a
demonstration
of
like
how
how
fabricate
you
know
handles
handles
page
templates
and
and
re-render
re-renders
them
so
yeah.
That's
that's
kind
of
most
of
the
demo.
E
Obviously,
a
very
good
and
powerful
tool
is
that,
like
I
think
that,
like
fabricate
is
a
little
bit
more
emphasizing
publication,
you
know
like
like
something
that's
kind
of
like
a
finished
document,
a
piece
of
writing
that
has
maybe
some
programming
aspects
but
doesn't
necessarily
need
to
have
any
interactivity
to
it
as
opposed
to
clerk,
which
is
more
kind
of
about.
You
know,
interactively
documenting
things
you
have
to
like
load.
You
know
the
whole
clerk
environment
in
order
to
like
load
pages
that
are
generated
using
clerks.
E
So
you
know,
if
you're
interested
in
something
that's
like
a
little
bit
more.
That
has
like
it's
just
more
plain
html.
This
is
the
fabricate
tries
to
focus
a
little
bit
more
on
that
as
well
as
like
I
try
to
use,
you
know,
use
closure.
Closure
forms
as
much
as
possible
to
you
know,
generate
layouts
and
and
computationally
derive
the
contents
of
pages
and
stuff
like
that
yeah.
So
that's,
that's!
That's
what
I've
been
working
on,
and
I
am
also
happy
to
take
any
questions
at
the
moment.
E
Well,
it's
it's!
The
syntax
is
very
similar.
Well,
it's
not
it's
not
it's!
Actually!
Sorry,
it's
not
it's
not
exactly
the
same.
It
doesn't
use
like
the
same,
like
lozenge
style,
syntax
that
that
that
pollen
does
instead
like,
instead
of
like
defining
like
the
lozenge,
curly,
brace
like
different
alternative
syntax
for
for
for
racket.
The
way
the
way
that
pollen
does.
E
You
can
use
it
to
right
now.
I've
been
focusing
on
using
it
to
generate
websites,
but
like
that
idea
of
you
know,
using
the
power
of
the
programming
language
as
a
as
a
writing
tool
is
something
that
I
think
fabricate
has
in
common
with
with
pollen,
because
I
think
that,
like
a
lot
of
the
tools
that
are
that
are
based
on
based
on
markdown,
you
know
they
have.
E
We
have
closure
code,
that's
like
kind
of
embedded
in
a
string
and
then
and
then
and
then
and
then
you
know
we
rely
on
this
like
closure
program
to
parse
that
markdown
and
then
and
then
and
then
generate
it
back
out,
but
like
this
allows
you
to
kind
of
define
page
elements
as
data
and
then
use
them
as
data.
You
know
as
you,
as
you
see
fit
rather
and
including
unevaluated
closure
expressions
that
you
want
to
display.
E
I
have
some
other
examples
of
that
in
fabricates
documentation,
but
like
that's,
the
idea
of
like
leveraging
the
power
of
like
close
your
name
spaces
and
close
your
data
to
compose
page
elements
is,
I
think,
the
the
core
thing
that
that
that
fabricate
has
in
common
with
pollen.
Does
that
answer
your
question.
E
Yeah
sorry,
I
could
have
gone
gone
through
the
basics
like
a
little
bit
more
but
but
yeah.
That's
ultimately
like
the
it
gets
parsed
out
into
a
bunch
of
unevaluated
expressions.
It
walks
through
and
evaluates
those
expressions.
Then
you're
left
with
a
big,
a
big
hiccup
structure
of
all
the
evaluated
page
contents
and
then
and
then
finally,
at
the
end,
then
that
gets
fed
into
you
know
the
hiccup
to
html
converter,
to
produce
the
the
page
that
you
see
on
the
left.
D
E
Yeah,
thank
you.
Yeah.
I'm
definitely
trying
to
work
on
improving
the
documentation
for
fabricate
as
well.
That's
some
that's
another
another
active
area
I
mean
I
haven't
like
publicly
announced
a
release
yet
because
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
docs
are
good
first,
but
yeah
more
than
happy
to
share
and
any
feedback
is,
is
very
welcome.
E
So
you
know
emacs
know
like
using
the
using
the
very
simple
simple
you
know:
kind
of
regular
expression.
Syntax
like
emacs,
knows
what
I'm
between
these
two
emoji
here,
and
so
it
can
enable
closure
closure
mode
for
for
for
those
for
those
portions
and
then
just
you
know,
fundamental
mode
right.
You
can
see
on
the
on
the
mode
line
on
emacs
that
it's
it's
it's
it's
changing!
It's
changing
modes
based
on
my
relative
position
within
the
buffer.
Now
the
it
is,
the
the
syntax.
E
The
syntax
for
templates
is
simple
enough,
that
it's
not
unthinkable
that
I
could
add
support
for
the
templates
to
to
other
to
other
programming
environments
like
vim
vs
code,
whatever,
and
but
also
you
know
right
now.
This
is
the
front
end
that
fabricate
uses
there
could
be
based
on
the
way
that
I've
set
fabricate
up.
It's
designed
to
be
as
extensible
as
possible,
and
I
want
to
give
a
longer
demo,
some
other
time
about
like
exactly
how
that
works.
Once
I've
documented
more
documented
it
more
fully.
E
But
you
know
it's
not
as
though
it's
not
it's.
It's
I've
made
fabricate
in
such
a
way
that
like,
if
somebody
wanted
to
create
a
markdown
front
end
for
it,
they
could
in
a
way
that's
somewhat
still
somewhat
compatible
with
the
overall
model
that
fabricate
uses.
I
just
haven't
chosen
to
do
that
because,
like
I
don't
I
don't
use
markdown
in
my
own
in
my
own
writing
workflow.
E
E
So
you
know
I
have
like
this
this
program
that
just
automatically
selects
colors
from.
Like
my
my
desktop
my
desktop
background,
and
you
know
it's
it
it
you,
you
can
choose
the
wallpaper
and
then
just
grab
it
grab.
It
grab
the
colors
from
it.
You
know
light
or
dark
theme,
and
then,
if
I
just
oh,
that's
so
good
see
it
doesn't
work.
It
doesn't
work
with
with
my
fabric
fabric,
fabricate
mode,
but
you
know
like
it
extracts
the
colors.
E
It
stores
them
in
a
json
somewhere
on
my
computer
and
and
then
I
can
load
those
colors
into
emacs
to
customize.
My
own
theme,
that's
really
that's
really
it.
You
know.
I
mean
I'm
also
interested,
of
course
in
like
in
like
generative
art,
more
generally,
that's
kind
of
like
a
hobby
hobby
interest
of
mine.
So
you
know
extracting
colors
to
make
a
neat
looking
color
scheme,
for
you
know
for
my
for
my
desktop
environment
or
even
for
a
website,
you
know
you
know
I
could.
E
I
could
use
it
in
fabricate
itself
like
if
I
had
like
a
picture
that
represented
a
web
page.
I
could
automatically
derive
the
css
for
some
of
the
css
values
for
that
for
that
page,
by
using
this
color
extraction
function,
you
know
it's,
it's
just
fun.
It's
a
fun,
interesting
challenge
that
I
set
for
myself
mostly,
and
I
want
to
make
things
that
look
nice,
and
so
that's
that's
really.
The
main
reason
don't
have
that
many
other
application
applications.
Apart
from
you
know
what
looks
good
so
yeah.
B
C
A
B
B
So
the
the
big
it's
it's
interesting,
looking
at
tools
like
clerk,
because
they've
made
and
a
lot
of
other
tools
like
portal,
because
they've
made
certain
trade-offs
and
for
my
project
I've
made
different
trade-offs,
which
has
pros
and
cons,
and
so
the
trade-offs
that
I've
made
are
that
well
clerk.
One
of
the
big
constraints
that
they
had
is
that
you
get
to
keep
your
editor.
B
B
So
the
reason
for
those
trade-offs
are
that
it
allows
me
to
do
everything
to
have
the
tool
all
in
one
process.
So
for
a
clerk
you
have
multiple
different
environments.
You
have
the
especially
if
you're
working
on
the
jvm,
you
have
the
jvm
environment,
you
have
the
browser
and
in
some
cases,
within
the
browser
you
also
have
psi
or
something
another
environment
that
gets
that
has
closure
script
evaluation.
B
B
If
you
get
to
keep
your
editor,
it's
like
vs
code
or
emacs
or
vim,
and
all
of
these
editors
are
not
written
in
closure.
So
the
trade-off
you
get
here
is
that
everything
is
written
in
pure
closure
and
you
also
get
the
jvm,
so
you
get
like
so
you
can
create
a
program.
That's
networking
isn't
required.
B
You
can
use
medium
to
large
data
sets
because
you're
not
transferring
because
you're
not
transferring
data
between
your
tool
and
where
it's
being
visualized,
you
get
really
good
access
to
the
platform
like
a
file
system.
Threads
processes,
you
can
talk
to
databases,
you
can
pull
in
libraries
dynamically.
You
can
do
hot
code
reloading.
B
The
jvm
gives
you
a
lot
of
these
things,
whereas
if
you're
working
in
the
browser
to
do
visualization,
these
problems
are
really
hard
and
the
other
benefit
that
you
get
from.
Not
the
I
mean
the
trade-off
you
get
when
you're.
When
you
don't
get
to
use
your
code
editor.
Is
you
really
get
a
lot
of
control
over
how
you
interact
with
building
your
program?
B
B
You
can
edit
things
and
so
kind
of
the
mental
model
that
I
have
for
this
is
that
it's
kind
of
like
a
spreadsheet.
I
realized
when
I
posted
this.
A
lot
of
people
looked
at
this
and
they
saw
notebook
which
I
can
kind
of
which
kind
of
makes
sense,
but
you
can
see
that
kind
of
like
a
spreadsheet.
You
have
these
formula
place
somewhere
to
put
a
formula.
B
You
can
see
the
value
as
well
in
spreadsheets
they
often
make
you
decide
whether
you're
looking
at
the
formula
or
the
data
that
is
produced
and
the
other
difference
between
spreadsheets
is
that
spreadsheets
don't
necessarily
give
good
names
to
the
cells,
whereas
every
cell
here
either
you
can
give
it
a
name.
You
can
also
it'll
auto
generate
names
if
you
don't
provide
one
and
then
everything
kind
of
dynamically
recomputes.
So
as
I'm
so
here
right
here,
it's
showing
the
value
which
is
the
size
of
this
slide.
B
It's
actually
defined
in
terms
of
data
structures
but
like
if
you
call
a
value
you
give
it
a
data
structure.
But
if
you,
when
you're
writing
code,
you're,
actually
text
editing
and
a
lot
of
our
tools
are
based
around
text
like
get
our
our
editors
are
all
kind
of
text
centered
and
the
big
paradigm
shift
here
is
that
it's
all
based
off
of
data.
So
any
any
component
that
works
with
data
can
also
spit
out
code,
and
you
can
also
use
any
ui
component.
That.
B
B
B
The
the
the
rules,
so
you
can
build
the
program
that
processes
the
rules
in
kind
of
a
spreadsheet-like
way.
That's
you
know
as
you're
editing,
and
it
gives
you
the
feedback
immediately
and
then
you
can
also
one
of
the
things
that
I
did.
That
maybe
is
difficult
in
other
programs.
Is
that
I
built
a
rule
editor
in
the
tool
itself.
B
B
I've
done
a
similar
thing
with
game
of
life.
Where
you
can
kind
of
you
know,
I
wrote
some
code
in
regular
closure
using
clothes
like
text
that
you
can
read
and
then
part
of
it.
I
used
this
visual
tool
to
kind
of
test
things
out,
so
you
can
see
if
this
is
the
starting
game
of
lifeboard,
you
can
see
the
next
four
iterations.
B
B
B
B
B
B
You
know
it's
like
you've
got
to
learn
to
get
you've
got
to
learn
terminal.
You
pick
up
like
half
a
dozen
tools
to
install
and
inspect
so
you
know
compared
to
something
like
excel.
Where
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
people
can
install
excel
and
immediately
become
more
productive.
They
can
take
a
weekend
course
and
on
monday
morning,
they're
ready
to
be
even
more
productive
than
they
were.
B
Yeah
it
would,
I
would
love
I'd,
be
happy
to
do
that.
There
are
a
few
rough
edges
based
off
of
you
know
if
you're
using
emacs
or
vs
code
or
calva
the
trade-off
you
get.
This
is
all
pure
closure,
but
a
lot
of
like
the
text,
editor
isn't
as
comfortable
as
calva,
but
if
people
are
interested,
I
would
love
to
try
to
get
people
up
to
speed
if
they
wanted
to
try
it
out.
A
Yeah,
and
would
it
make
sense,
maybe
to
think
if
you
could
somehow
connect
it
more
to
an
editor
workflow,
where
in
some
way
you
could
push
a
piece
of
code
from
your
emacs
to
just
here,
and
I'm
wondering
if
you
feel
that
you're
missing
it.
Sometimes
if
you're
missing
your
editor,
when
you're
inside
membrane.
E
B
Yeah,
like
I
don't
think
you
can
do
this
in
like
I,
you
can't
do
this
in
emacs
and
you
can
so
this
view
here.
I
basically
created
this
view.
I
created
the
size
and
then
I
made
that
a
parameter
and
so
now
yeah
so
and
you
can.
The
the
things
that
you
can
bet
are
so
some
of
the
things
that
I've
embedded
are
you
can
embed
a
terminal.
B
A
Yeah
and-
and
you
know,
you're
also
demonstrating
how
it
can
be
liberating
to
just
not
use
the
browser
all
the
time
and
then
maybe
maybe
something
we
could
discuss
later.
Is
why
why
we
are
kind
of
relying
on
the
browser
why
we
need
or
want
most
of
our
tools
to
be
in
the
browser
and
possibly
the
need
to
share
things
on
the
web,
but
I'm
not
sure
right,
because
it
is
so
amazing
to
see
what
it
means
to
be
in
process.
Yeah.
E
B
So
yeah,
I
was
just
going
to
say
for
the
browser.
All
of
this
I
mean,
and
it
also
kind
of
answers.
Your
question,
which
is
the
basic
primitives,
are
like
line
shapes
text
images
and
those
are
those
are
the
primitives
that
you
define
to
define
the
user
interface
in
and
there
are
multiple
there
are
actually
multiple
options
for
how
to
actually
display
it.
B
So
a
lot
of
these,
like
all
these
visualizations,
can't
like
if
you
wanted
to
export
them
to
the
browser,
you
can
do
that,
and
so,
but
it's
really
hard
to
go.
The
other
way
like
if
you
have
a
bunch
of
if
you've
like
a
big
ball
of
html,
trying
to
get
that
to
work
and
reveal
or
javafx
or
any
other
kind
of
anywhere
outside
of
the
browser
is
very
difficult,
and
I
mean
it's
also
very
hard
to
just
get
them
to
use
it.
B
E
B
B
B
Kind
of
a
way
for
them
to
say
if
you
click
at
like
42,
coordinate
4242,
what
should
change,
but
it's
basically
separating
out
the
pure
function
from
kind
of
the
the
state
and
there's
a.
I
have
a
blog
post.
That
kind
of
talks
about
how
all
of
that
works,
but
the
the
key
is
to
try
to
you
know,
have
your
view,
return
data
and
for
it
to
be
a
pure
function.
So
it's
it's
different
than
a
lot.
B
So
I
think
a
lot
of
the
functional
approaches
are
based
off
of
frp
and
frp.
In
the
way
I
look
at
it
is
like
I'm
gonna
use,
gtk
html,
I'm
gonna
use
some
object,
oriented
ui
library
and
I'm
gonna
try
to
make
it
more
functional,
so
I'm
gonna
like
wrap
it
in
this
frp
stuff
and
try
to
fix
it,
and
the
approach
that
I
took
was
just
to
say.
Like
I
don't
want
the
oh,
oh
I
don't
want
gtk,
I
don't
swing,
I
don't
want
html.
B
I
just
want
a
user
interface
to
find
in
terms
of
data,
which
is
like
shapes
text
all
this
stuff
that
you
would
find
in
designer
tools
for
like.
If
you
go
to
user
designer
tool
like
photoshop
or
figma,
they
have
shapes
text
images
and
they
don't
have
divs
and
spans,
even
if
they're
designing
for
the
web.
B
D
D
B
D
Yeah,
but
I
was
wondering
if
you
had
a
def
inside
of
your
code
block,
then
you
couldn't
see
it
so,
instead
of
saying
times:
num
num
10,
you
had
a
def
num
something
and
then
in
some
other
block
you
wanted
to
call
num.
It
wouldn't
work,
because
it's
expecting
you
to
name
things
between
blocks
on
that
box
on
the
left,
whether
you
have
that
g11
so
right.
B
B
So
like
we
did
the
clerk
study
session
it
doesn't,
I
think
you
could
plug
the
evaluation
model
into
clerk
and
instead
of
so
clerk
waits
for
you
to
save
your
text
and
then
it
will
like
process
it
and
then
display
it,
and
I
think
you
could
I
mean
it
looks
like
it's
structured
like
clerk
is
well
structured.
So
if
you
wanted
to
kind
of
combine
that
all
in
process,
I
mean,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
clerk
that
is
defined
in
terms
of
html.
B
And
with
the
state
management,
I
found
that
so
I
mean
I
think
what
I've
tried
to
do
is
separate
kind
of
what
from
how.
So
you
have
these
components
and
they
depend
on
each
other,
and
they
have
state
that
the
components
may
have
interdependent
state
and
a
lot
of
tools
are
focusing
on
like
how
you
keep
everything
up
to
date
and
how,
if
you
like,
make
a
change
here
it
gets
propagated.
I
think
there
could
be
more
fine
grain
ways
to
track
those
dependencies
on
how
to
do
it.
B
A
A
A
And
I
think,
for
a
few
of
us,
it
looks
like
a
certain
central
need
at
the
moment,
just
to
be
able
to
document
and
share
easily
and
what
we're
seeing
now
is
three
tiny
libraries
which
are
all
work
in
progress.
One
is
called
kindly
that
we
mentioned
in
the
past.
It
is
about
specifying
what
kind
of
things
are,
how
they
should
be
viewed
in
the
same
in
a
sense,
clay
is
a
layer
on
top
of
that.
A
A
So,
let's
see
what
we
have
at
the
moment,
we'll
mostly
look
into
this
tool.
Clay
which
is
kind
of
in
use
here,
and
the
idea
is
that
clay
is
just
tiny.
It
is
just
a
way
to
wrap
other
tools
and
create
a
compatible
experience
in
a
few
of
the
other
tools
in
a
way
where
you
could
explore
things
with
with
portal
and
document
them
in
clerk,
without
changing
your
code.
So
in
common
use
cases
we
want
things
to
be
compatible,
but
we
don't
want
it
to
limit
us
this.
A
This
wish
of
compatibility
of
having
different
tools
in
harmony.
We
don't
want
it
to
limit
anything.
So
in
all
use
cases
we
want
to
be
still
able
to
use
the
best
tool,
and
I
think
that
is
what
we
are
beginning
to
to,
maybe
maybe
maybe
find
a
way
to
do,
and
so
let
us
see
what
we
have
in
the
moment,
and
so
at
the
moment
I
initialized
the
process
with
two
tools:
clerk
and
portal,
and-
and
you
see
clerk
is
running,
so
I
can
document
this.
I
can
influence
the
document
at
any
time.
A
So
now
I
do
re-evaluation
in
clerk
and
it
is
working,
but
we
can
also
more
dynamically
evaluate
a
single
form
and
get
the
value
of
that
or
maybe
I'll
restart
so
that
we
get
portal
to
open.
So
you
see
now
we
have
one
window,
which
is
the
browser
one
window,
which
is
bottom.
One
is
the
editor.
So,
for
example,
we
can
look
into
this
image
of
clay
and
it
works
in
both
clerk
and
portal
and
and
the
idea
is
that
for
most
common
needs,
we
want
that.
A
A
A
Oh
actually,
no,
it
is
kind
of
fun
to
keep
seeing
that
yeah.
So
let
us
restart
the
game.
We
have
both
clerk
and
photo
and
yeah,
and
here
we
have
like
a
vega
light
specification,
so
we
can
see
it
working
in
both
tools,
and
here
we
have
it
nested
inside
hiccup.
So
we
can
see
it
in
both
tools
right,
so
I
think
for
for
these
kind
of
common
needs,
we
can
have
this
hope.
We
can
make
things
work,
compatibly
and
we're
seeing
that
nesting
is
working
as
well
right.
A
We
are
nesting,
a
viewer
of
vega
in
a
viewer
of
hika,
as
both
portal
and
clerk
can
do
and
we
are
not
losing
anything
we
could
do
whatever
we
like
with
clerk.
At
any
point,
we
could
re-render
the
whole
document
and
we
could
do
whatever
we
like
with
portal
and
data
sets
like
tables
work
as
well,
at
least
in
the
current
state
of
the
this
viewer
ethan.
Here
is
working
on
some
improvement
to
the
dataset
to
the
table
viewer
in
kirk
and
in
portal.
A
Actually
they
have
a
better
viewer
that
I'm
not
using
yet
and
yeah,
and
maybe
maybe
another
comment
about
this
hope
to
connect
a
few
libraries
together
here.
What
we
have
here
is
this
vclj
library
by
our
friend
ashima,
who
is
now
back
involved
again
and
and
this
visual
j
library
allows
us
to
take
a
data
set
of
the
tablecloth
library
and
pass
it
to
be
visualized
with
the
hanami
library
here.
We're
using
this
hanami
template
called
point
chart,
and-
and
you
see
it
is,
it
is
working
and
just
to
make
it
work.
A
We
needed
a
project
that
depends
on
tablecloth,
or
at
least
the
underlying
technical
data
set
hanami
for
visualizing,
something
and
in
this
case
clerk
for
actually
seeing
the
result.
So
we
need
this
layer
that
makes
things
work
together
and
actually
it
matters
because,
quite
often,
when
somebody
has
a
tablecloth
dataset
and
they
like
to
use
hanami,
they
need
to
kind
of
convert
it
to
the
proper
shape
to
be
used
in
hanami.
And
here
we
are
trying
to
make
that
seamless
so
that
this
common
need
of
data
conversions
is
not
not.
A
It
is
not
necessary
to
do
it
explicitly.
It
just
works,
and
I
think
that
is
the
current
hope
that
we
make
a
few
of
the
common
repeating
tasks,
a
bit
more
seamless
and
maybe
another
piece
of
tooling
that
I'm
looking
into
these
days
is
html
just
generating
plain
html
for
visualizing
something.
So
let
us
turn
off
these
tools
and
maybe
open
this
one,
for
example,
and
and
what
we
could
see
now
is,
for
example,
that
a
data
set
of
tablecloth
can
be
visualized
using
this
data
tables
library,
this
old
and
famous
jquery
based
library.
A
That
is
sometimes
just
the
best
way
to
look
into
a
table
right
and
to
do
that,
we
actually
don't
need
to
integrate
it
into
all
our
sophisticated
closure
script.
Reagent
setup.
We
just
needed
to
create
this
tiny
html
and
it
is
actually
useful
and
we
want
that
to
be
seamless
to
do
so.
That
is
what
I'm
trying
to
do
with
this
html
piece
of
2d,
and
maybe
let
us
come
back
to
the
one
which
is
more
full
at
the
moment
and
is
it
making
sense
so
far.
A
A
But
at
the
moment
there
is
this
middleware
setup
that
is
needed,
and
so
it
is
not
completely
unproblematic.
Maybe
just
an
another
look.
I've
been
looking
into
our
markdown.
We
have
been
looking
into
it
in
the
past.
There
is
this
amazing
ecosystem
in
r
for
visualizing
things,
and
I
know-
and
I
know
andrew
has
some
experience
with
it
and
did
have
some
important
comments
about
it
and
about
maybe
the
need
to
be
careful
before
kind
of
going
on
that
path.
A
But
at
the
moment,
what
we,
what
I
sometimes
find
useful,
is
just
being
able
to
use
a
bit
of
of
this
huge
ecosystem
of
html
widgets.
They
have
in
our
you
know
many
many
many
many
declarative
libraries
that
allow
you
to
describe
something
to
be
visualized,
as
there
is
a
little
piece
of
expression
that
is
stating
what
needs
to
be
visualized
and
through
our
interrupt.
It
is
not
difficult
to
to
do
that.
A
So,
for
example,
here
we
use
this
ggplot
library,
which
is
maybe
not
the
most
interactive
of
them,
but
very
useful
one
and,
and
it
is,
it
is
kind
of
nice
and
actually
at
work.
I
find
that
I
need
gdp
plot,
and
sometimes
I
cannot
do
without
it
and
again
it
is
easy
to
send
it
to
to
be
kind
of
hosted
in
an
iframe
inside
clerk
and
I'm
wondering
about
the
usability
and
maybe
if
we
had
more
time
to
discuss,
maybe
we
I'm
so
curious
about
andrew's
comments
about
that
yeah.
A
I
might
be
wrong
about
this
approach
because
it
might
be
that
something
here
is
kind
of
going
astray
of
the
the
of
what
the
tools
of
the
way
the
main
tools
actually
intended
to
be
used,
because
that
is
what
is
happening
and
kind
of
using
clerk,
for
example,
the
wrong
way
right
and
not
the
way
it
is
intended
in
a
sense
yeah.
So
thank
you
for
this.
I
think
we
are
around
the
official
time
a
bit
after
that.
A
Maybe
a
few
of
us
could
stay
a
bit,
I'm
not
sure,
and
because
it
seems
that
there
is
a
lot
to
discuss
of
the
previous
updates
and
yeah
thanks.
So
I
guess
that
is
time
for
discussion.
Maybe
for
those
who
need
to
leave
goodbye
and
thank
you
for
being
with
us,
I
guess
I'll
keep
recording
and
we
can
chat
a
little
bit.
F
Daniel
is
down
is
clay.
Essentially,
then
the
middleware
you
were
referring
to
it's
just
standing
between
the
buffer
and
the
tools
that
are
actually
doing.
Displaying
and
kind
of
routing
things
is
that,
like
so,
and
handling
evaluation
and
responsiveness
a
little
bit
differently
than
those
tools
do
originally.
A
Tweak
the
way
and
wrapper
works
and
add
your
own
functionality
there
and
what
it
is
adding
to
the
and
rebel
server
is
just
this
ability
to
listen
to
whatever
is
happening
and
and
then
it
is
adding
just
a
little
bit
more
of
the
needed
layers
so
that
it
can
send
things
to
be
visualized
in
a
way
that
is
compatible
right.
So
it
is
yeah.
F
A
C
G
F
G
A
I
think
node
space
is
offering
some
kind
of
user
interaction
which
is
interesting
and
maybe
missing
in
other
tools,
and
that
is
why
I
hope
to
come
back
to
it.
But
I
think
this
is
a
less
pressing
problem
and,
in
my
opinion,
the
pressing
problem.
What
we
actually
need
to
solve
soon
is
this
ability
to
share
things
in
a
way
that
others
can
quickly
pick
and
use
them.
F
F
He
wanted
to
be
able
to
reevaluate
certain
pieces
and
then
have
the
you
know
for
pedagogical
reasons:
have
the
the
update
in
the
display
on
clerk
and
then
he's
having
trouble
getting
it
to
evaluate
just
one
piece
without
kind
of
commenting
things
out,
so
that
the
cash
missed
and
then
re-saving
it
and
then
re-rendering
it,
and
that
was
why
rohit
was
missing.
Note
space
that
kind
of
responsiveness
of
being
able
to
reevaluate
one.
A
Put
it
and
yes-
and
I
think
I've
been
discussing
it
really
with
rohit
who
really
influenced
me
too,
and
I
think
for
a
few
of
us.
There
was
something
like
this
need
of
evaluating
on
demand
as
drawing
called
it
and
and
yeah,
and
we're
wondering
about
this
about
the
right
approach,
because
yeah
anyway,
yeah.
A
A
A
B
A
Right
right,
what
I
use
at
work
these
days,
I'm
using
gt
plot
in
r,
but
it
can
generate
an
image,
so
it
was
not
not
difficult
to
integrate
yeah
yeah,
but
then
you
know,
I'm
wondering
a
lot
about
what
we're
missing,
because
we
are
so
careful
in
integrating
things
and
then
we
might
be
missing
those
many
many
many
javascript
libraries
that
can
just
do
all
other
ways
of
visualizing
things
and
then
I
that
is
why
maybe
at
the
moment,
I'm
kind
of
curious
about
this
standalone
html
approach.
Well,
you
need
something
to
be
visualized.
F
A
A
D
A
F
F
F
F
That
seems
like
it
could
be
really
valuable,
but
I
don't
know
if
it's
something
that
was
easy
for
you
to
do
or
if
you,
what
you
were
imagining
was
something
that
would
be
built
in
and
heart
baked
into
clay
or
whether
it
would
be
baked
into
like
or
whether
it
would
be.
You
know
something
that
would
be
more
user,
user-defined,
meaning
the
user
of
clay.
A
I
think
that
is
a
great
question
to
be
explored
and-
and
I
would
love
to
think
about
it
more
and
you're
really
so
enlightening
the
way.
You're
phrasing,
the
question-
and
we
are
20
minutes
beyond
the
official
time
and
it
felt
like
there
were
more
questions
to
to
the
other
people
who
were
presenting.
A
So
maybe
I'm
not
sure
if
people
could
stay
a
bit
more,
but
maybe
we
should
might
kind
of
expand
at
this
moment
and
see
if
we
like
to
discuss
anything
a
bit
more
and
maybe
another
thing,
maybe
we
could
discuss
hopes
for
the
coming
month.
Should
we
organize
some
study
session
of
any
other
tool,
as
we
did
with
clerk?
B
A
B
I
think,
there's
some
benefit
to
that
and
I
think
there's
there's
a
way
to
create
custom
visualizations
that
work
across
reveal
portal
clerk
that
that's
interesting,
especially
if
they're
interactive,
because
I
think
you
get
a
lot
of
benefit
out
of
that
so
yeah,
it's
just
part
of
you
know
if
there's
a
library
of
visualizations
that
you
can
use
in
the
library
of
tools
and
you
can
kind
of
mix
and
match.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
benefits,
because
somebody
creates
a
new
tool.
B
There's
all
these
visualizations
that
can
tap
into
and
then
somebody
who
makes
a
new
visualization
they
can
use
it
in
any
tool
and
any
other
somebody
else
using
a
different
tool
can
use
that
visualization
as
well.
So
I
think,
having
that
kind
of
having
the
simple
pieces
that
you
can
kind
of
mix
and
matches
has
a
lot
of
benefit
in
reuse.
B
So
I
was
just
going
to
mention
that
I
think
I
posted
this
video
in
a
couple
places.
It
was
from
the
icf,
the
in
international
conference
for
functional
something
and
they
talk
a
lot
about
kind
of
direct
like
somebody
they
touch
on
similar
problems,
and
recently
there
was
a
someone
was
working
in
closure
script,
doing
a
research
project
called
introducing
visual
and
interactive
syntax
for
closure
script,
and
I
think
there
they.
B
D
I'm
just
reacting
to
what
you
said
and
that's
the
reason
I
ended
up
with
pollen,
which
is
what
has
inspired
your
fabricate
so
so
white
on
the
lack
markdown,
because
markdown
really
is
a
handy
way
of
expressing
html.
So
I'm
not
really
in
terms
of
conceptual
richness,
I'm
gaining
nothing!
I'm
just
getting
it's
a
shorthand
right,
there's
something
out
there
called
tufty
css.
I
don't
know
if
you
guys
have
seen
it,
but
it's
a
way
to
put
some
graphical
language
to
articles
so
web
articles.
D
So
things
like
footnotes,
for
instance,
it
has
the
concept
of
of
an
article
section.
It
has
a
concept
of
a
subsection,
so
I
took
the
pollen
which
is
this
racket
tool.
That
is
the
basis
to
fabricate
at
this
conceptually
and
defined
a
dsl
that
lets
me
say
what
an
article
section
is
or
what
a
footnote
is,
and
then
it
generates
the
html
code.
D
So
so
so
I'm
not
thinking
in
terms
of
html
and
thinking
in
terms
of
the
of
the
end
result
and
that's
really
sort
of
like
my
holy
grail
for
for
visualizations
yeah.
I
think
the
vega
light
people
have
tried
to
do
something
like
this,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
that
it's
still
too
specific
right,
so
so
I'll
read
this
link.
E
Yeah,
I
think
I
think,
just
to
give
other
other
languages
they're
due.
I
think
that,
like
in
the
javascript
world,
there
are
definitely
some
like
very
interesting,
interesting
projects
that
are
that
are
that
are
kind
of
attacking
attacking
this
as
well.
Like
I
mean,
like
I
think,
like
observable,
like
is
one
of
the
first
ones
that
comes
to
mind.
E
You
know
you
can
have
article
tags,
I'm
like
you
know.
I
think,
like
one
thing
that
that
pollen
does,
that,
I
don't
do
in
fabricate
is
like
is
allow
users
to
define
their
own
their
own
tags.
That's
like
one
big
part
of
pollen,
that's
like
different
than
fabricate
because
fabricate
I
just
kind
of
stick
to
what's
already
in
html,
but
you
know.
E
B
You
can
put
it
into
pdf,
you
can
visualize
it
using
opengl.
You
can
put
it
in
a
browser
and
I
think
for
a
lot
of
these
other
tools.
We
should
really
think
about
what
we're
trying
to
represent
and
not
necessarily
always
think
in
terms
of
the
primitives
that
html
gives
us,
because
I
think
some
of
those
are
useful,
like
speaking
of
like
there's
lists
and
articles
and
footers
and
headers,
but
some
of
the
other
ones
aren't,
I
think
helpful,
like
dibs
and
spans
tend
to
not
be
very
good
primitives.
B
I
don't
think,
and
so
I
think,
if
you're
thinking
about
how
to
represent
things,
looking
towards
what
the
data
model
would
be
independent
of
html
like
would
you
come
to
the
same
data
model
and
also,
I
think
we
should,
especially
with
visual
tools.
We
should
be
looking
towards
experts
in
those
fields
for
how
they
think
about
it.
So
I
think
we
should
do
a
better
job
of
like
okay
graphic
designers
have
all
these
style
guides
and
visual
language.
B
We
should
look
at
those
things
and
maybe
try
to
represent
more
of
what
we're
doing,
using
the
ideas
and
primitives
that
they've
been
using
for
decades
or
centuries
and
yeah
there's
a
lot
typography
that
we
should
probably
do
more
with,
but
yeah,
especially
with
visual
tools.
We
should
probably
do
a
better
job
of
looking
into
graphic
design,
yeah.
E
Actually,
the
you
know
the
the
20th
century
designer
who,
like
designed
like
half
of
the
most
famous
like
corporate
logos,
you
know
from
the
20th
century
like
ibm
and
general
like
and
like
westinghouse
and
like
like
all
these
other,
like
you
know,
like
all
the
a
bunch
of
other
like
super
super
famous
ones,
and
you
know,
there's
definitely
like
a
lot
of
really
valuable
insight
in
you
know,
learning
from
from
from
from
the
visual
design
visual
design
world,
as
we
think
about
these
problems.
So
I
definitely
agree.
A
Yeah
and
we
are
half
an
hour
past
official
time
that
is
so
much
enlightening,
but
maybe
maybe
we
should
kind
of
try
to
conclude
and
let
us
see
if
there
is
any
comment
about
what
we
should
do
during
the
month,
any
s
session
that
you
are
hoping
to
have.
We
could
also
discuss
it
offline,
but
if
there
is
any
topic
you
think
we
could
bring
into
a
session
sunday
and
let
us
do
it
and
or
if
there
is
any
concluding
comment
of
anybody,
then
that
is
a
good
time.