St. Charles County Government, MO Planning & Zoning Meetings, 17 Jun 2020

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From YouTube: St. Charles County Planning & Zoning Meeting: June 17, 2020

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Watch the St. Charles County Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for June 17, 2020.

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Good evening, welcome to the st. Charles County planning is owning Commission meeting at this time. I would ask everyone to please stand with me for the Pledge of Allegiance I.

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Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I.

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See we have a quorum, do I, have a motion to open a meeting.

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All those in favor say aye.

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Welcome to the June 17th 2020 planning his only Commission meeting at this time. I would request that everyone please turn off or mute. All electronic devices applications for rezoning will be heard during tonight's meeting will be voted on by the Planning and Zoning Commission. The Commission will then make a recommendation on the applications which will be submitted to the st. Charles County Council for their final decision. The individual items for this evenings rezoning applications are scheduled to be introduced at the Monday July 13 2020 County Council.

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Meeting applications for preliminary plats heard during tonight's meeting will also be voted on by the Planning and Zoning Commission. During the meeting, the vote on preliminary Platts is final. Only a recommendation for denial of a preliminary plat will be heard before the county council at the Monday July 13th 2020 connie council meeting the following documents are introduced as a matter of record for this evenings public hearing and regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Those documents are the unified development, ordinance of st.

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Charles County, including zoning maps and the year 2030 master plan for st. Charles County, which includes the year 2030 future land-use plan map.

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I'll. Give you a brief introduction as to how our meeting is conducted. I will read the application into the record within. We will have here a report from staff at which time members of the Commission can ask questions of the staff. Then we will have the applicant to come forward and present their application and answer questions from the Commission at the conclusion of that, we will then have a public hearing. Anyone here in the audience wishes to speak, can come and speak regarding the application.

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Once the public hearing has been closed, we will take no other comments from the from the public. We may ask the applicant to come back to answer questions our concerns that came up during the public hearing. Then we will bring the application back to the Commission for discussion and a final vote. If you're going to speak to my left, the microphone that it will be, the speaker's stand. Okay and on that stand, there's a white card.

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Please fill out the white card with your printer name address and the application number. This is so way that we can get your name correct in our minutes.

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So the first item on our agenda is.

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Application RZ 20, oh 7, the property owners, Hyman HK, revocable trust. The current zoning is a agricultural district, 5 acre minimum lot size requested. Zoning is our our single-family residential district 3 acre minimum lot size. The 2030 master plan recommends rural residential, which is 3 acre minimum lot size. The parcel size is 84.2 acres. These location is on the west side.

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Bus doctor drive approximately 300 feet south of Forrest Dale Road near the city of new Melly, located in Council District, two staff.

C

As you mentioned, there's two items on tonight's agenda consecutively that are related to each other. The first is a rezoning application and the second is a plat, so those are two different considerations and two different votes and the considerations are different. What the considerations that you take into account for a rezoning is not the same as a plan is more of a technical consideration, whether it does or does not meet the Technic wireman, so the subdivision regulations, so first only I'm gonna make comments on the rezoning application.

C

As you mentioned, the property in question is about 84 acres. It's just south of Forest Hill, Road, northwest of new Meli, and the current zoning is a cultural district, as is the zoning for quite a ways in all distances. Is the zoning is squarely a cultural district?

C

That's different, though, than the master plans recommendation. The master plan recommends.

C

Rural residential land uses the map that you see in front of you all of that white yellow that shows areas that our 2030 master plan recommends for a rural residential and the reason I mentioned, that is this property. I would call it squarely within that rural residential area.

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This property is about two miles north of the southern boundary of that rural residential and a little more than a mile south of the row residential area and the concept for the rural residential area is to allow rural residential uses on three acre lots of greater it's, not quite rural, it's not quite suburban, but it's somewhere in the middle and the that's made at the county council meeting and putting together the master plan included the idea that rural residential would be sort of a buffer from with the municipalities, and so it could be a buffer towards the truly I coach.

C

Well, I should say true that culture, but the agriculture area in the southern part of the of the county- and that was one of the thoughts behind the rural residential land use category five acre lots are a lot easier to redeveloped into subdivisions and three acre lots. So once you have three acre lots, though, that's a pretty stable land-use for a number of years or even decades.

C

So again, the master plan is for rural residential, but the agricultural zoning is the current zoning and the difference between the two is pretty much the number of homes you could build, because under the existing agricultural zoning you could build by right, I'll, say 16 or 17 homes on this tract I'm, not exactly sure it depends on some. Several factors that what's being proposed along with this rezoning, is a plat that would include 25 homes. So we're really talking about the difference between about eight or nine homes.

C

That's the difference that we're talking about here that would, if a rezone, real residential, it would allow maybe eight or nine homes more than what the current zoning does allow. Admittedly, the current zoning does allow a wider range of uses, includes buy-rite homes at five acres or more, and it allows agricultural uses by right, so there's a broader range of uses that would be allowed in the current and the current zoning. So you may want to take that into consideration. The range of uses is much narrow in the RR zoning district.

C

Similar lot sizes for three acres can be found to the northwest and the Auburn Meadows Subdivision. Now that subdivision was developed in 2005 at a time when the agricultural zoning allowed by right three acre lots and so about a year after that, subdivision came about the county, changed the ordinance and did two things simultaneously.

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One adopted the rural residential zoning district and, at the same time changed the minimum lot size in the agricultural zoning district from three to five acres. So they did that simultaneously. I would say, though, when you look at this map, you see that, although there's three acre lots to the northwest around it on other sites, it's pretty much farmland there's, for instance, to the south. The Alice freeze motors tract is about a hundred acres and obviously that's a different character than the subdivision in the north. The other aburn Meadows.

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County staff has reviewed the application and reviewed the comments made to this point and taking everything in consideration. County staff is recommending approval for this particular rezoning and I'd like to make part of the record we have, and you have in front of you, communications of opposition from Alice, freeze, Molitor, Nancy, birth story, Leslie Jones, Paul, Molitor, Chris CUDA. He Dave mulling, Blaine, sweeten Janelle Breen, oh ho, and my kin Cara Dempsey.

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Any questions for staff hearing none we'll has the Afghans come forward.

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Please wager right here, you saw me swear or affirm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury I do.

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State your name and address for the record my.

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Name is Tom O'toole jr.. My address is 12 400 Powerscourt Drive, st. Louis Missouri 6, 3, 1, 3 1.

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Name is Dale Beck's I'm, with Bax engineering, we're located at two to one point: West Boulevard, st. Charles, Missouri 6:30 301 go.

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Mr. chairman, members of the Commission again my name's Tom O'toole jr. I'm, an attorney with the firm of NICUs O'toole and I, represent Graystone Holdings LLC mr. Tim Griffey who's here with us this evening. In connection with both the rezoning request under application, RZ 20-0 7, as mr. myers indicated, and also which I know, is next on your agenda. But preliminary plant review application PR a 20-4 teen Graystone Holdings is the applicant in both applications.

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I'll see if I get this on the right, I've given.

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Surprise did the Commission get the copies of the PowerPoint? Thank you again with me to assist in his presentation as my client mr. tim griffey, the owner and president Greystone holdings, and our engineer. Dale backs of backs engineering who introduced himself who's well known and well. Traveled in this region in civil engineering he's also prepared. The preliminary plat is also very conversing with the subject.

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It's will be discussed this evening and then as stormwater runoff well generally, and specifically as it relates to the subject, property I've delivered each of you a copy of our PowerPoint presentation and they ask you to follow along.

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Summary of the application and request here in and to assist you in your deliberation here this evening. Let me start with this PowerPoint. As we indicated it's a rezoning from a agricultural district, 5 acre minimum, which is permitted under Section 405, 0, 8 0 of the ordinances of st. Charles County 2 RR, a residential rural residential district, which is permitted under Section 405, 0, 9, 0 of the ordinances of st. Louis County, st. Charles County for an eight point.

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Four two acre tract of land located on the west side of buz duiker Drive, approximately 300 feet south of Foristell Road near, but not in the city of new Maui, now I understand will be taken up separately, but the next slide presents to you the pertinent facts that are included in mr. boxes: pulmonary Platte and again. The proposal here is for 24 Lots on this 80 4.20 acre tract 25 Lots. Thank you.

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Here's our preliminary plat and you could see that it's situated. As we indicated off a forest elf Road, the subdivision is known as Oakview farms and again 24:25 Lots, and each lock has a three acre minimum and the average lot size is three point: one: six acres and we'll discuss more about the pulmonary plat. During that portion of the meeting.

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Here also in connection with this is a topographic pulmonary plant that mr backx has prepared. He can again discuss it further in detail, but you can see here's a distinction of how this plant is different from what was before this commissioner. In 2009 this Commission in 2019, covering Lots six through 11, you can see a berm, that's highlighted there in in yellow, which is again as an effort to address any stormwater concern that this particular project might realize and again, we'll have more on that discussion later.

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The next part of the preliminary plat is a subdivision interest sight line profile, as you can see that it shows a vision. Looking right is you're entering out of the property on the forest, L Road and then also looking left of the property, and then the left turn lane from Forest L road into the subject site.

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The design speed, of course, is set at 45 miles an hour, and although the speed limit on Forest L road is 35 miles per hour, as you can well observe, this of course complies with the sight line profile requirements of st. Charles County.

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Next slide talk a little bit about what mr. Myers indicated earlier about the master plan or what's been called in vision. 2030. The 2030 master plan adopted along with the future land use map, was adopted on January 28 2019, as implied by its title, the 2030 master plan, and this is a quote from the document. It is the planning horizon for the next two decades. The 2030 master plan recommends the subjects future land used to be, as we indicated, rural residential are three acre lot. Memo under that plan.

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The and the primary uses in this particular zoning district is single-family residences on large lots, three plus acres, but here's an important point to make clustering encouraged. So the planners obviously, which this commission was part of contemplated subdivisions, are clustering in in connection with this, this particulars owning district and there's secondary uses, which support the large lot residential use. That's proposed, including schools, places of worship in other public uses.

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Here's that twenty master, twenty thirty master plan, future land use plan map which indicates the circle area in red, is the area in question near the subject property as it notes that this plan also says that this map recommends that the rural area north of highway, D in east and west of highway F and highway Z in the southwestern portion of the county, which is where the subject property is located, be developed, is rural, residential, three acre minimum.

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Next plan shows the next map shows the location of surrounding three acre developments. You can see by the depiction in red letters ABCD. Those are three different developments. The Kohler estates, a larger tract situated there were depicted in a the Hyman K tract, is a subject track. That's B the minors Hagen tract, which is a tract to just achieved rezoning to rural residential earlier this year. That subject site is almost exactly similar to ours and size.

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I believe they they were approved for twenty-eight homes in the audun Prairie development, which is indi depicted in D, is a fifty-four acre tract. The purpose of this slide is to depict that you can see around the area. That's the lighter yellow, which is the twenty thirty master plan, or a vision. 2030 s contemplated area for rural residential. The subject is situated well in the middle of that, as mr. Myers pointed out- and you see there's other developments surrounding that in that same region of the county.

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The next slide- the next slide is a section under Missouri law that guides counties and municipalities in zoning and I'll. Just you can leave to read that yourself, but a couple of pertinent points are, as this is a section. Eighty nine point: zero: four zero, the Missouri statutes, which purpose of regulations and in those regulations a zoning regulations shall be made in accordance with a comprehensive plan.

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The section the statute goes on is said that consideration should be given, among other things, to the character, the district and, of course, encouraging the most appropriate use of land throughout such a municipality. So the twenty thirty master plan was built on the prior plans. Twenty twenty twenty twenty five, certainly outside planning consultants, participated in that process. This Planning and Zoning Commission was in the middle of that process and, of course, the County Council was in the middle of that process.

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We submit that obviously, because of that effort that this county is placed in one of the fastest growing counties in the Midwest. The vigilant's that's been put into that effort to plan properly and plan ahead. That this plan should be followed should be followed and taken seriously in light of the effort that was put forth, the volumes of effort to to plan ahead for st. Charles County.

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Now the points to consider which suspect will hear from some in the public portion but I miles will address it now and that is stormwater runoff we've addressed may the concerns that came up in in an earlier application and again, as I mentioned, mr. Beck's is placed in important areas between Lots, six and eleven, a new drainage, berm similar or what you'd find in contour forming.

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We slows water as it moves towards one part of the lot to the other in this case, run off towards the Molitor piece which came up in the in the prior earrings. You know. The fact, ladies and gentlemen, is that three acre lots really don't create in the Nardin amount of water, particularly after they're constructed, mostly because there's a significant amount of grass and vegetation on those Lots that absorbs the water. I know that I interacted with mr. holthouse recently about his development in st. Charles County he's developed over nearly 500 Lots.

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In 3 acre zoning in the last 25 years minimal, if any erosion damage in connection with those Lots I know that the reality is that the current zoning is five acres. Five acre lots will have some stormwater runoff, that's the reality of residential and commercial development. It's going to generate stormwater, runoff I know. Mr. Beck's can can speak more specifically at the right time tonight about his experience and expertise in that area. But the reality is three acre.

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Lots are not going to give off significantly more water than the five acre zoning that occurs currently so somebody's going to develop this property. If somebody's going to develop it residentially at some point and the material difference between the stormwater runoff between five and three acres is de minimis, so I know we'll have a lot more discussion about that tonight, but I want to set that record early. Some of the other things that came up was the increased traffic in population. The current zoning again is five acres that would permit.

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We think about 17 homes, based on the configuration of the lot we're proposing 25 homes in a3x. Oh me again, ladies and gentlemen: the difference between the increased traffic in population by those seven or eight homes. That again, is not material.

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You could bring in any traffic expert to tell you that the additional traffic that will be created by those seven or eight homes is not material, and so the the plea to this commission that we shouldn't rezone this, because it's currently five acres to three acres because of the traffic and population increase, is really just misplaced. The other point that I think is important. That sure this Commission is aware is there is discussion about future sewer sanitary sewer expansion in this region, the Dardenne Creek expansion. To be specific.

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This commission is well aware that, if sewers come to this property, that it will cause those property values to increase, because the value of that utility and those applicants will be in here asking for lots on very small coverage, I suggest you a quarter acre or less we've seen it around this county we've seen it in st. Louis County, it's just a reality. If the properties improve that significantly they're going to ask for better more dense zoning than we're talking about here tonight, so I think the old adage applies, the devil.

E

You knows better than the one you don't know or the one you don't want and again, I think the the master plan is important part and we'll maybe talk about it towards the end. But again the planning. That's going on here, the 2020 plan. The 2025 plan is a very vigilant County, and now this 20 master plan it needs to be followed planning. Experts have a vision or a road map of what zoning should be in a County applicants.

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Rezone properties, not Planning Commission's, not City Council's, but they were vigilant to be ahead and it's uncontroverted. Mr. mayor I've said it that this property situated right smack the area. The duck, varied long and arduous process said, should be rural residential. So the plan actually says that this 2030 map and master plan should be the planning horizon for the next two decades, and certainly we we think that should be the case.

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I'm certainly glad to answer any questions that the Commission might have I know, there's probably going to be when we get into the discussion further about some of the engineering in connection with this, we've got the best expert in st. Charles County and we're prepared to address those as as they arise, any.

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Questions for the applicant good, the.

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Only other thing, mr. chairman I'd, ask to reserve the right to have some rebuttal based on what the public part of the process admits, and then I'd probably ask you to admit some of our things with the record at the appropriate time. Thank you.

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We will now open the public hearing for application, RZ 20-0 7. Anyone here wishing to speak regarding this application.

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Good evening, MIT.

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You saw me swear affirmative to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth of these proceedings or the pace of Finley's of perjury. Yes,.

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I do thank you very much. Mr. chairman members of the Commission.

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G

Name is Arne C acd Knopf public advocate and County resident mailing addresses p.o box 1535 in O'fallon Missouri 630 366.

G

Just a moment of clarification, mr. chairman, will there be two public hearings? One yes rezoning.

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Over here, okay.

G

I'll keep my individual remarks. These are muscle runoff retention and sewer for the next public hearing we're addressing the rezoning. Currently, yes,.

G

We fought as residents a group of residents that live in the area and myself as being a public advocate on behalf of people who don't know how to participate in our governance or come to these meetings and fight for themselves. We fought and defeated a similar rezoning attempt just less than four months ago before this commission and it went on for months before the County Council.

G

The project is currently zoned or as a loud five acre tract, which will be 16 homes in the difference with the applicant. Is they wanting 25 homes? It's a difference of nine. Now two miles is the designated line in the comprehensive plan. It was part of those discussions, a part of that crafting and when that was made for the urban County residential r1 district. Now two miles is quite a distance. We're not talking about 200 feet or 2,000 feet. We're talking about two entire miles. I believe that this is a huge difference.

G

This is a stretch of the imagination trying to try and a developer trying to get a free pass here, going against our comprehensive plan. It's not even close to the area that would allow for the three acre three acre lot size.

G

The lack of public amenities that was mentioned by the attorney and by the applicant in terms of water, sewer and other type of amenities are the utmost discussion here on this property.

G

Basically, it comes down to we're talking about the same property different day, you're, trying to find out a way around the political system and some way to encourage you as appointed officials of the Planning and Zoning Commission, to give them a stamp of approval. I am asking if this cleaning and Zoning Commission draw a line in the sand, make a firm stance for the second time in less than four months that we will not tolerate a resorbing it or going against our comprehensive plan.

G

I'm asking this commission to stick with the five acres per home, allow 16 homes on this property, which is allowed by our current codified County Code and I'm, asking at the Planning and Zoning recommend to the County Council to dial this application for rezoning. There's any questions, I'll entertain them not I will have a seat. Any questions.

A

For mr. general, thank you, sir. Anyone else wishing to speak regarding application are z20. Oh seven.

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Seeing no one will close public hearing ask the applicant to return.

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Anyone have any questions for the applicant well, I have one will there be a homeowner's association.

E

I suspect there would be mr. Griffey says: yes.

A

Who would maintain the berms that you proposed on lot 16 through 11.

E

The individual property owner that would have those berms situated on their real estate, okay, but you know, mr. chairman, sorry, but that's pretty common when you have any kind of rain fields or something that is on property for detention or retention or stormwater runoff, they generally get deeded or their responsibility. That goes with the homeowner.

H

Could you describe the size, the height of that berm and and it's.

I

Gonna be composition; okay! Well, you go ahead. Yeah.

E

Let mr backx describe that.

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J

Again, my name is Dale.

F

Beck's on with backs engineering, basically what that, what we're trying to provide here is a means of stormwater management to offset the runoff that miss Molitor is experiencing mainly mainly, we don't want to be damaging any other property within the area of our stormwater runoff, with this particular development, whether it's mrs. Molitor or any other surrounding property owner. This tract this landscape berm that you guys see our diversion, berm or drainage, berm that you that I'm showing on this plan has not been final designed at this time.

F

Yet, but I can explain it to you, as you guys, drive around this county in the state of Missouri. When you look at it a farm field, that's on some type of rolling terrain. You will see these types of diversion berms, built to control the stormwater runoff on that it keeps the erosion down. It allows them to obviously get more more crop out of the field if they have less erosion and we're looking at that as being the same way, whether it be grass over planting, corn or wheat out.

F

Here, we want to keep the erosion down in order to do that. We're going to put in a diversion berm of some type now the final design of that will still have to be determined based upon the amount of water. That's going to this diversion berm, and it will have more than one relief in this diversion berm. We don't want to center the point of relief or the release of the stormwater and concentrated into one particular area, which would then just cause further erosion and concentrate the water into one location.

F

So we certainly want to take all those matters into into a consideration when we do the final design of this diversion, berm or landscape firm. But right now, I couldn't tell you if it's going to be three and a half feet or four and a half feet tall, or whether it's going to be six feet wide or eight feet wide, but that will be determined and we will be providing all calculations and necessary approvals to st. Charles, County Highway Department through our construction plan process. If we're so lucky to have this approved.

K

With the current design on that, where you anticipate, given the wording, just pay the water going well.

F

The water is going to be heading in a Southwest direction as the existing terrain and the existing contours direct that water in the southwestern direction towards miss molitor's property, so we'll be directing that water in the same location we're just going to actually control the water a little bit more, so that mrs. Molitor will not experience any erosion or damage to her property. So there'll be several outlets along that diversion berm. So it's not being concentrated.

A

Well, my concern is the maintenance of this burn, ten or fifteen, or twenty years from now, yeah.

F

The berm will be planted in grass. It will have outfall stand pipes in it, like you, typically would see in a farm application, whether it be corrugated, metal, pipe or some type of PVC pipe. That would be a private application. It would not be public, nor would it be maintained by st. Charles County.

F

So basically, it's just portion of mowing their grass I don't expect to once. What's vegetation is established, I'd really don't expect much maintenance to this diversion berm, because it is going to be grass and it will be mowed with their with their lot and very very little maintenance will come come with this berm.

A

Any other questions for the Apple.

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E

Mr. chairman, just in response, I think that you know I consider mr. Beck's the expert now I'm the layman, but the layman's view of this is this: berm is too slow the water down. So then it gets absorbed on the subject track and minimally displaces water on budding property owners, not unlike any concept of stormwater management or runoff in connection with mr. Deane Hoffs comments, I would just rebut by saying I don't know about a free pass, but it's pretty obvious, and the staff pointed this out.

E

Did this zoning is a lot more restrictive than the five acre zoning, so there's no passes here and particularly with the new subdivision ordinance that was passed relative to five acre lots now in this county. My client will be more restricted in his zoning here in how he builds this development that he wouldn't a five acre. That's number one number two I, don't know what comprehensive plan mr. Dean Hoff is reading, but it's pretty clear right in here.

E

It says it's pretty black and white and so I think the Commission's well aware that glad to take any other questions on the rezoning application. The.

A

Other questions with the Apple are you doing just.

E

Before you close mr. chairman, again I'd ask that our PowerPoint presentation and a copy of the I assume the staff has already done so, but a copy of the st. Charles County master plan 2030 be made part of the record as far as a record. Thank you.

A

Okay, we'll bring this back to the Commission for consideration.

A

Questions of staff comments.

B

I'm a little bit surprised at the tone of the opposition, letters that there's no one here to talk about in opposition to it. That's a little surprising to me.

K

H

Think one of the.

H

The master plan does call for it to develop over the next two decades, like that. I I think that it's also got to be some of an organic development too, so that that is one of my concerns. 16 homes on this, as it currently said, seems like a fairly good density, but I do understand that, eventually, that is the way it will develop, but I think there's also an organic aspect of how that develops.

H

That I think that the several other sites that were pointed out, some of the to especially to the east, were in areas where three acre developments are already very commonplace.

A

Any other comments questions very yes, sir, miss McDonald I.

L

Appreciate the berm but I'm still very concerned about stormwater runoff, and the issue comes up in the opposition letters quite a few that we have received so I'm gonna vote. No.

A

The other comments chair will entertain a motion to approve application: RZ 20-0 seven, which is the rezoning of the Hyman H K revocable trust property, rezoning from a cultural district, five hundred minimum lot size to our single-family residential district, three acre minimum lot size. Sarah motion.

D

A

Hollinger makes the motion: is there a second.

A

Mr. Clary made the second mr. Kuhn. How do you vote yes, mister fromm.

L

A

L

A

Hollander, yes, mr. Baumer.

K

A

Sali, yes,.

K

A

Cleary no I vote yes passes six to two.

A

E

You, mr. chairman, members of the Commission.

A

The next item on our agenda is preliminary flat for the Hyman che trust, Hyman Kay tract o View farms, Drive application number pre-2010 property owner is Hyman HK, revocable trust the engineers surveyors backs engineering company developers, Graystone Holdings LLC existing zoning is a agricultural district, 5a terminal wat size. The requested zoning is our single family residential district. Three acronym lot size proposed Lots 25.

A

The parcel size is eighty four point: two acres location onto the west side of the stocker drive approximately 300 feet, south of Forest Hill Road near the city of new Mele, located in Council District to staff.

C

The background for this application is the same as for what we just reviewed, so I won't review that again. What I would say is that in this case, it provided proposing 25 Lots, which is, as I recall, the same number of Lots as the last time. This was before you, but how this is different.

C

There's a couple of differences here than before one the streets will be paved before they were going to be Rock streets and second they're, proposing a berm to intersect stormwater on from Lots six still that at least the berm will be on lot six to 11 now I would explain the stormwater for this track generally against about 84 acres.

C

If you draw an invisible line from like the northwest corner diagonally across to the southeast corner of the tract, it's about half and half, and the stormwater goes one way, the towards the east and one way towards the the Southwest for the just for explanation purposes. I'll call that the eastern and western, the eastern half also call it that stormwater naturally flows towards this creek that runs along the eastern border of the property and so the creek that is a tributary of darling Creek that intersects the stormwater and carries a way for the eastern half.

C

The western half is a little more complicated a little bit of the water flows through O'byrne, Meadows, Subdivision and then other the rest of the water flows south towards what has been described as Ellis, freeze, Walters tract, and it's that area of the stormwater that they're looking to intersect with this berm across lot.

C

Six through 11 in that so the water would be intersected and so excess stormwater would be not only intersected but moved towards the east towards that Creek I was just talking about, but the net effect would be that it would, although differential runoff for either five acre lots or three acre lots, is not that different. When you're talking about pre development or post development. Still, there is some differential runoff in Seoul they're, proposing to take that differential and move it towards that Creek. That was just explaining about also as I understand it.

C

There will be public water supply, but not sewer, meaning that not only will there be potable water for drinking water, but also the water lines will be large enough and there'll be fire hydrants for fire flows. It's required by the new mell, a Fire Protection District, so it'll meet that requirement.

C

Also, the turn around the end will be large enough to admit school buses as I understand it, and those are some of the differences from the last time you review this plat and I would in by saying that the plat meets the technical requirements of chapter 410, subdivision regulations of the county ordinances. Any.

A

Questions for staff.

A

Good to come forward.

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E

A

Saw the truth, nothing, but the truth and these proceedings over the face and penalties of perjury I do.

A

E

I'm going to turn this over to mr. Beck's, because there may be some questions for him, but a couple of observations, because we lead into that.

B

E

Is our staff just explained half of this property's going to a creek, the other half of the water is being slowed by the berm of the drainage berm or some contouring. That's slowing that water to the properties to the to the west and the in the in the South. It gives you pause to say. Well, that's a pretty good plan and I think my client has gone to great lengths to try to meet the questions of his neighboring property owners and how he would address that drainage and I. Think mr.

E

Beck's has done an excellent job from an engineering perspective to come up with this plan. I will remind the Commission that it was slightly touched on. You know: there's not going to be a significant material difference between the street access to this development or whether it's 5 or 3 acres, the impervious material which we all know to be an added impediment for trying to prevent stormwater runoff is going to be there in either instance.

E

So when I could have less streets in a 5, acre development, so I think that points worth taking and- and we also did I- was glad to hear miss Myers mention that the turnaround was made larger to access for the school buses emergency vehicles. Anything like that. So we're glad to answer any other questions. I think our Platts up there not only the deploy, a plat that depicts the 25 Lots, but also the topographical that addresses a stormwater and also the site profile for the ingress and egress to the so division. I'll.

B

E

To mr. Beck's Thank You mr. chairman.

F

Thank you very much.

F

My name is Dale backs when Beck's engineering- you have my address as well. This is our topography. Map to a topographic map is of the existing topography of this ground. So you can see this is a rolling farm field. It does have a rather sizable drainage, channel running to the southeast from the Northeast that is governed by st. Charles County as a natural water course. We are. We have added a 25 foot buffer from the top of the creek bank as a no disturbed area in this particular layout.

F

There is only going to be one lot. That's a lot! 21! That's going to be fronted off the other cul-de-sac off bus, Tiger Road. That is the only lot that's going to need to apply for a special permit from st. Charles County to build a driveway and cross that particular waterway other than that we're leaving it completely undisturbed other than a lot 21 to actually gain access with the development. It's ready been spoken ready to do. 20 foot wide roads, which is a new requirement for residential streets to be paved by st. Charles County.

F

As of April 2020. As it was spoken, the Lots will be served by public water. We do not have sanitary sewer, as mr. Tom had mentioned previously. They have not made it up to this particular tract, so we are going to be doing septic systems. We have already submitted to DNR our application for septic system design. They've come back with their letters that we've submitted to the county and I believe it's somewhere around 1.3 a KERS is what they would deem that we could put a septic system on on this particular trap tract the ground.

F

They do come out and take soil testing and they do study that and they give us their reports and we furnish that report to st. Charles County Planning Department. So our three acre lots are more than adequate to support a septic system. According to DNR on this particular tract to ground. The diversion berm has been talked about many many times. I. Think you guys realize what we're trying to do with this diversion berm.

F

If we can come up with another engineering component to help control this stormwater in the process of going through construction plans approval, we will certainly take those into consideration at the preliminary plant process. We just want to encourage end and let you guys know the importance of the stormwater runoff to our south wesson, that we take it very seriously and that we will be providing some form of an engineered swale, an engineered berm, some way, some fashion to control the stormwater that we've heard so much about in our last hearing. So.

J

F

Wanted to reiterate that again to you guys if we are taking this very seriously I know mrs.. Molitor's property has already been damaged by other development, and we do not want to see that that any further caused by that. So that is our plan. We've pretty much talked about it. It certainly will answer any questions. You guys have what we have done, there's an existing pond that is going to be removed, and then we also removed a proposed pond between Lots, 9 and 10 for this development.

F

But basically what you're seeing here is the exact same 25 Lots that you guys seen a few months back with the reduction of a couple of ponds and the addition of this landscaping diversion berm process that we're going to be engineering, so I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have for us any.

A

Questions for the applicant- yes,.

K

On lot, 21, where you said they're gonna drive and do a driveway that kind of will kind of interrupt the flow of that water. Are you planning on putting a culvert under the driveway or what are you looking to do to keep that water running in the right direction? Yes,.

F

Ma'am, we will not impede the water flow. That's existing today. The final design will be determined, whether at big box, culvert or whether that would be a large storm pipe, but it would be designed to carry a driveway over the top of the drainage channel and it would meet all st. Charles County's requirements for stormwater design, also crossing that particular Creek. Well,.

A

The developer be putting that in or the homeowner that.

F

Would be the homeowners responsibility that can also be negotiated at the contract stage of the, as that particular load as well. It would be done by a professional plumber that would be licensed to install storm sewer systems in the county.

K

No question that came up in several of the letters was talking about the soil composition. When you were out there. You know several of the people who lived there and probably lived there for quite a while had stated that the soil was Barry had a high level of clay. Did you find that, in your investigations,.

F

Well, there's I'm, not the soils engineer, but we did have st. Charles, County soils evaluate this and he did give us a report. There is actually four different types of soils out there: it's more of a silty loam type soil, but I'm, going by the recommendations of DNR with their testing that they've done as well for the supportive of sanitary septic systems.

F

That's their task! That's why we submit it to them. They do it every day. So they've done many soil tests out there to determine that. This is a de quit for septic systems, as I spoke earlier. I believe that the the lot size came back at one point: three acres: the state requires one acre. St. Charles County requires three acres, so we're upholding the st. Charles County requirements of three acres and lieu of the one point three. The DNR is allowing us to put septic systems on this particular tract.

F

K

When you're gonna do the berm and some of the other areas will you you do add some topsoil to the area to help prevent because Charles County my whole life and I will agree with some of the homeowners when it's hot and in the summer, and you get a we'll call it a gully washer, and you know that that water hits that hard clay soil. It doesn't matter how much grass you have that water goes.

F

Absolutely we want to see vegetation on this particular berm. No doubt about that. That's what's going to help absorb the water, that's what it's going to help reduce the flow of the water grass has many many things, so we are definitely wanting to put topsoil and grass on this particular berm. No doubt ma'am what.

K

About on the landscaping around- and you can leave that for the homeowner, you know because the water water moves, it won't just stay because the berm is there necessarily. So what about that.

F

Well, the idea right now is to take if you're going to build a home on one of the Lots would be to strip the topsoil off in stockpile. That's topsoil off to the side of your house. Dig your foundation, build your footings, build your foundation, build the house backfill the foundation with suitable soil and use that topsoil to finish top coating up your yard to plant grass on.

F

So it's very good soil for planting grass on right now they just have to strip that stop topsoil and save that topsoil, which is typically done in an application like this subdivisions where you grade the entire development. Most of the time you don't see anymore topsoil when you have a development like this we're going to be very, very little impact on the Lots themselves.

F

Our biggest impact is building the streets after that the biggest impact would be each individual home and that's where we will instruct them to strip that topsoil and to reuse that topsoil in the front yard. The builders are going to encourage that no doubt about it.

K

Thank you. You.

A

Know the questions hey. Thank you. Thank you.

A

We will now open the public hearing for pre-2010.

A

You solemnly swear or affirm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings under the pays and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

D

A

G

You very much mr. chairman members of commission. My name is Arne C, acd, North, County, Public Advocate in resident and first thing I'd like to address is one of the commissioners have mentioned of the eight opposition letters why those eight people weren't here and present if I read and if you all read those emails or those communication to staff, they were afraid to come here because of covin 18 in lieu of publicly testifying before you.

G

They submitted written communication written documents in lieu of public testimony, so I want to make that a matter of the public record that those eight people are in full opposition to the rezoning either the primary plat and I believe they were not here. Because of do you they're afraid of Kevin 19. Now, let's address the preliminary plat.

G

There are current water water issues, as we all know, there's definite erosion that I have personally seen and tomorrow to farm the Alber meadows that was built in 2004 caused a lot of this damage to the Walter farm.

G

Water has to go somewhere and it has to be absorbed by putting in these 25 homes that you just approved in the rezoning. It will take away greatly the absorption weight, so water runoff is a problem here. The drainage burn is the applicant solution to slow the water. My questions is the Chairman brought up what about maintenance that needs to be addressed in the final plan. Hopefully we'll see that in the final plain, but also liability, I think that needs to be answered here.

G

Who is gonna be liable if that burn breaks and causes damage to the homes or to the adjoining farm I, don't hear the debt being addressed vegetation. There are no plans currently in the preliminary plan for vegetation. Hopefully, they'll cover the vegetation in the final plane.

G

When we talk about that liability, I also don't see an escrow and I like that to be a mandatory condition in this application. I think in this application there needs to be some type of escrow to make sure that the developer says that there falls through what they're, gonna say: they're gonna do and by having that escrow in place either with modern monetary cash or a letter of credit from the bank will ensure that that berm will be built to specifications to comply with our accounting code.

G

I, don't know what that figure should be I, don't know if it should be ten thousand fifty thousand or a hundred thousand dollars, but I definitely like to see in a condition of an escrow in this situation, and that's not only to make sure that the job is done right, but to protect the future twenty-five property owners if it does pass the County Council next thing is retention and detention areas.

G

Last time that we went through this, their plan was kind of laxa. Daisy really didn't have specifics or details, but they wanted to put in three small ponds. They've now taken that out of their equation, but we want to make sure that there's no flooding and that there's proper retention and detention I, don't see in the bill. Mary Platt, where this is addressed, sewer and septic I was fine with the five acre Plains, but now you approved the rezoning down to three acre Plains.

G

My question is: is that sufficient enough to provide septic leachate, leach egg requirements and to meet with our County Code.

G

Open space and green space I don't see anywhere in this plan, where they offer open space and green space. The pictures that I saw I'm not sure if to pick the entire pictures of the property, but I want to ensure that our tree preservation code is being met.

G

As we all know, the Frances high school district with the Daniel Boone elementary school that school is bursting into seams. There.

C

G

Desks spaces for any additional students at the school there's overcrowding: I, don't see a letter addressed to the Francis House School, District I, don't see a letter back from the superintendent or the deputy superintendent over people services if they can service the increase of population to educate the students of the subdivision fire protection district again, I, don't see a letter from I believe it's a new male fire protection district to see if they can enhance and meet the demands on a new subdivision, turning radius for emergency vehicles and school buses.

G

The engineer and applicant said that they have the correct turning radius, so I'll take their word at it, but roadway safety improvements on bus, krypter drive really needs to be taking place here. We're talking about a country road with no ditches, no guardrails, no deceleration lane no safety requirements whatsoever. This roadway needs to be upgraded to today. Standards need to protect lives and pedestrians and I don't see anywhere in this plan that it's being addressed by the applicant conditions for protections I, don't know if we'll see them in the final plan.

G

But this is a place to really talk about them. Number one condition of protections: there are no conditions from staff staff says chapter four 10 of the codify code is good enough. I, don't think so. In this case it doesn't go far enough to protect the joining property owners. It doesn't go enough to protect the future homeowners, which you approve the 25 homes when you're talking about maintenance and liability of the sperm I, don't see where it's being addressed or any condition from staff or the county counselor's office.

G

My final question and comment to the Commission is in this case in this pulmonary plat. Are we protecting the developer, the Builder and applicant? Are we looking out for the health, safety and public welfare of the 25 residents in the current residents that live around this property? I shake my head its staff when they don't put conditions when they don't put protections it just makes me irritated, makes me furious and makes me question why government doesn't protect the current property owners and the potential 25 property owners to come in the future years?

G

I asked you put some conditions here that I'm came to the table to offer up to protect everybody and I hope that we see these in the final plan. Thank you very much. Any.

A

Questions for mr. general thanks, sir. Anyone else wishes to speak regarding pre-2000 team.

A

Ask the applicant to come back.

E

Mr. chairman, thank you just by way of rebuttal. Mr. batts will address a couple. These specific comments made by mr. Dean off I just want to make a general comment, we're in a preliminary plat review process and, of course, asked this Commission for its approval tonight to pass it on to Council, approved.

K

E

Of the things raised here and we're getting again into the specifics are done in the permitting process after this time. We're not skirting these things. Many of these letters and requirements they're already in place, but I want you to know that that my client has contemplated this. This is not his first development and he knows that the requirements and conditions that the county will place on him and he's well prepared to accept those. The.

C

E

Other thing is I would comment for a turnover. Mr backx is about the absorption. You know this property in its current rural undeveloped stage has a rate of absorption. It's going to be developed. So that's the question: how do we enhance that absorption? How do we manage the stormwater runoff? It is the least impactful, but my client has the right to come here like mr. Dean, often and develop property within this county pursuant to your ordinances.

E

That's what we're asking for we're, not asking for something to vary from those ordinances and we're well prepared to follow them to each of the letter of the law and I'd like mr. Beck's to comment about. May those points advanced by mr. Deane off. Thank you.

F

Thank you again. My name is Dale Beck's I'm, just going to address a few of the items that mr. Dean Hoff has put put forth towards you guys escrows for the development at st. Charles County will not let us develop a subdivision, any type of development, commercial, industrial, residential without providing any form of escrow. So though B escrow is that will be placed with st. Charles County Highway Department when the plans are approved and they give us approval to start construction of the development.

F

So a las olas pros will definitely be put in place that are required by the county. I. Think the three small ponds that he's mentioning is at a different project that I just did called meinertzhagen. We talked about three small ponds on that development. We never talked about three small ponds on this one previously open space. Well, that's whatever is going to live on a three acre lot. That's all open space for us now, granted it's not common ground that everybody can use within a development.

L

F

Everybody has their own three acre lot to use as a wish for green space, open space and their needs tree preservation. The only trees we're cutting down on this development is the trees right. When you come in and develop me maker right, there's a row of trees along our northern property line. Once we get out of that tree line right there, there are no other trees being removed from this development. That picture right. There depicts it very well.

F

It's only the northern line of that trees that we're going to come through to build our roadway to get into the development so tree preservation that will certainly be managed and met by this for the codes of the county. We do have letters from the fire district and we do have letters from the school district and we do meet all the turning radiuses for both fire and school district and st. Charles County's requirements for intersections.

F

So I think that's the only once I really need to address I didn't see anything else in here. Oh bus, Decker, Road. He talks about the safety of that road. That's just an existing gravel road, but then the development that will be upgraded as part of our development you'll see it on our plan right there. It does call it out to be upgraded for County requirements. I'll be happy to answer any other questions that you guys have for us this evening. I have.

A

A question concerning the berm: will it be built piecemeal as the Lots are sold? Will.

F

Be struggle with the development when the streets go in, the berms will go in. We need to start protecting our property as soon as we start developing the property putting in the Birman at the end doesn't really do a whole lot of good for protecting our surrounding property owners.

A

There are questions for the applicant.

H

Do the do you have the size of the minimum maximum size of homes in there and your any kind of covenants? At this point.

F

Well, at this point, these will all be custom home Lots. They will certainly meet county's requirements, but each individual lot purchaser will bring forth a building plan to the county for review and approval with their plot plan for that particular lot. So we don't have just a cookie cutter set of houses that we're going to build for this development. We'd certainly like to keep it 100% custom, so they can choose plans for mr. Griffey stock or they can bring their own plans and mr.

F

Griffith, you can bid those plans for for construction, but they will certainly be most likely. In my experience on three acre lots. It will be much larger than the county's requirements for a single-family residential ranch model or two-story model.

F

Okay, thank you here.

A

Are the questions.

A

Okay, thank you, sir. Thank you and inspect back to the Commission for consideration any questions, comments.

A

Hearing none the chair will entertain a motion to prove pyaari 20-14, which is the preliminary plat for the hymen cade tract no will be known as the Oak View farms drive.

A

So the motion is there a second mr. Fromm made the motion. I know you're too far away.

A

Okay, miss Sally. How do you vote mr. Cleary mr. Kuhn? Yes,.

H

A

H

A

Macdonald you.

L

A

Mr. Hollander, yes spam and I vote. Yes, it passes six to two.

A

The next item on our agenda is politically Maneri, platfor twin silos. The location is 25:10 Church Road, the application number is pyaari 20-15. The owner developer is Charles Towne crossing LLC engineer. Surveys backs engineering company, the zoning is a agricultural district, five acre minimum lot size proposed loss or twelve parcel sizes. Seventy two point: three: nine acres locations on the south side of Church Road, approximately 2,000 feet, eet's east of blaze, station road located in Council District, six staff.

C

Okay, the main points of this plant I should start by saying the location of this proposed subdivision is north of the savior st. Charles a lot of times when you think of the area north of st. Charles, you think of floodplain there's. Actually, a ridge of land extends north from the city for some miles, north that's out of the what's commonly called the hundred year. Flood plain. So this is in that area, except for there's a little strip of land that was previously designated in flood playing on this property.

C

That I'll talk about in just a moment, but the primary features of this proposed subdivision is that it's 72 acres, 12 Lots acres, our excuse me, the Lots would be a minimum of 5 acres each in conformance with the agricultural zoning, and it will consist of a cul-de-sac and you'll, see the in the illustration before you, the road splits and in the middle there's, a retention area that, as I understand, would would hold water.

C

The subdivision would be served by individual wells and also individual sewage treatment, so on site for both and the area of the property that was previously designated as floodplain has actually been revised by FEMA through a letter of map amendment. So it's no longer designated as as flood plain. The county staff- oh well, I should also say what's a little bit different about this subdivision as well, is that the streets will be built two pallets and would expect it to be made public streets and they'll be built with public street standards.

C

That's somewhat unusual for subdivision with five acre lots, but that's the proposal here before you. Kenny staff advises that the proposed plant meets all of the 1000 requirements of chapter 410 of the unified development ordinance. Any.

A

Questions for staff.

A

Seeing none we'll have the EPP and good forward. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceedings under the pains and penalties of perjury I? Do please state your name and address for the record. My.

F

Name is Dale backs them with backs engineering located two to one point was Boulevard Saint Charles Missouri 633. Oh one.

J

I represent Charles Town crossing 239 Fox, st. Charles, Missouri, 6:30, 301, okay,.

A

Thank you, don't forget to fill out a card go ahead. Mr. Beck's.

F

Thank you good evening, I'm here, representing Charles Towne crossing LLC for a project called twin silos for the preliminary plat. This is kind of difficult, a little bit light. It looks like here, but our particular site is off a Church Road I'm, pointing to it right now, so we're on the northern side of st. Charles County we're north of highway P west of highway 94 on Church Road.

F

It's seventy two point: three: nine acres: it's actually a 25:10 Church Road. It was a farmhouse with silos and barn barns on it. It was used as a farm property since then they've gotten a permit to demolition, the barn, the house and we're gonna save a couple of the silos out there as well we're going to use those for monumentation and landscaping. So what we're proposing here this evening, I just wanted to show you where this was at again on the land on the land use map.

J

F

Are in agricultural zoning again back up here in the dark green section of st. Charles County on the northern side. Nowhere near any are our residential, it's all agricultural up there and we're going to remain agricultural and propose five acre lots. This is a blow-up of the aerial of the site. I got off of st. Charles County GIS site. This shows you just be the outline of the site itself as I mentioned earlier.

F

It is seventy two point: three, nine acres with hardly any trees on it, one so ever just a bunch of scrub trees and some some trees that were dying that we're up around the house, and this is man. This is light. I apologize for this I'm, not sure how I can get this any darker, but you can't even see this I have.

C

F

If you could pull up your your map that you had up there earlier right there with your merging, this is just a little too light for us to.

G

M

F

Audience to see this is a layout of our tract. We've got one single entrance coming of Church Road I'm heading south into the site in a looping road with one extra cul-de-sac on it. That kind of takes care of that. Oddly shaped piece of ground at the southeast corner. All the Lots are minimum of five acres. Some are much more than that. We're proposing a 24 foot wide public road, so we're gonna, build it four feet wider than their minimum standards, and that will be on a 42 foot wide right away as well.

F

The surrounding properties to our north is i1, which is across Church Road. It's being used as farm ground at this particular time to the south, east and west are all agricultural farm use. Some are farm, use some have houses on them, but generally speaking in the area that surrounds us right now, there is a single-family resident to our southeast but generally farm ground, and we have some sporadic neighbors as we go up and down Church Road Lots will be served by individual wells and septic systems. There is no public water nor public sanitary sewer.

F

Up in this portion of st. Charles County, there is no flood plain that exists on this proposed tract, although we do have a jurisdictional waterway that we're upholding a 25-foot setback from from our neighboring property to our West. When we surveyed this tract, there is a jurisdictional waterway that we've surveyed st. Charles County, as has commented on that it's the center of it's not actually on our property, but we're upholding their request of holding 25 feet off of that particular top of creek bank.

F

It's just a drainage channel for these, for these farm fields is what it is. It's actually along our Western property line and it drains from the south to the north kind of hard to see it on there, because it's very, very small. It's only a couple of feet wide but believe it or not. That is a drainage channel that we're that we're going to deem as a natural water course and stay 25 feet away from it. It will be in the back of three or four Lots.

F

We don't expect any type of disturbance in that area being said, it's certainly within the rear yard setback. There will be no construction of any future future strike within that setback. We are proposing a 1.9 acre lake I'm, not going to call it detention I'm not going to call it retention and we're not gonna call it water quality. It is a lake waters going to go in that link and waters going to exit that lake about as fast as it goes in.

F

We have flared ends that take the water in at a certain elevation, and we have flared in to take the water out at that same elevation, so water in water out. What this will provide is a means of water quality. Water will enter in through the storm pipes. It will settle. Sediment will settle to the bottom of this particular Lake and then eventually go out the western direction to an outfall structure. We're not required to put detention or retention or water quality on the developer.

F

Thought it'd be a nice feature for the development it can be accessed and used by all the lot owners. The 12 lot owners of the development, and it is sitting in common ground. So I just wanted to clarify that that is not retention or detention. It's going to be a water feature.

F

There is an underground pipeline. It's owned by Wood River pipeline I. Just wanted to point that out to you it's at our southeastern side of the property. That's being pointed to at this time by Ellie I appreciate that we've left adequate room in front of the pipeline behind the building line for any type of buildings or structures that would remain outside of the pipeline easement. Just so you know that pipeline is carrying crude oil. It's not a high-pressure pipeline whatsoever. It's just a crude oil pipeline.

F

We were not going to be disturbing that we're not going to be filling over it. We're not gonna be cutting under it. We're not going to be disturbing it.

F

We are going to try to refurbish a couple of the existing silos that were around the the existing house that was on the site. The developer wants to take those just two of them out of I, believe five or four or five of them just two of them.

F

We would like to place them at our intersection once you come into the development which would be at the corner of the lake I believe you'll see it on your plan, we've been working with county and staff to position those silos so that it doesn't appear into the runoff area. If someone takes their car and runs off the road, there's a relief area that we're giving them to give them a chance to get back on that road.

F

So, in the last few days we've been moving those silos around a bit to be able to meet the demands of st. Charles County Planning Department with their runoff requirement. So with that being said, I'd certainly answer any question.

C

You guys might.

F

Have for us for this development this evening.

H

How deep do you anticipate the wells? Excuse me well how.

F

Deep, do we anticipate those I believe they're 350 foot wells, nope Shawn's got.

H

Okay, thank you.

D

Any other questions, yeah I, have a question. I know that the property is above the floodplain, in fact, that you got a part of the property with it with a report from FEMA recently. Is that correct? Yes, what I'd like to know is a Church Road is you know, leading into and leading out of, is Church Road above that particular flood level? Next goes: there's there's always that that concern about, obviously the flooding of the road. Well,.

F

The portion of Church Road does it's under the floodplain we've got the map pulled up right now, you can see at our Western property line. That's where that drainage channel is the county is showing some floodplain we're a little bit right of there. There you go so we'll have access out to highway 94 through some flood fringe area. You can see that cross-hatched area to the right is a flood fringe area, so our development can exit out of here without getting into floodplain.

F

We just can't go west, we'll have to go east in that situation, and we've looked at the previous maps that the county has on the websites of the latest flooding that we've had in the area we find no water, overture Road or on this property. Looking at those previous maps that were posted.

A

The other questions, thank you. You will now open the public hearing for pre-2010.

A

He's right here, you saw me swear affirm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth in these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury I did.

N

A

State your name and address for the record Wayne.

N

Boshart my address is 5118 blaze, Station Road in st. Charles, okay, go ahead, I'm here representing myself as a farmer in the area, I've lived there in the same house for seven years that also represent I'm a president of the drainage Archer farm drains Association, and the ditch at drainage that he was talking about has been around since 1908.

N

Eighteen hundred and twenty two acres drained into that ditch drainage.

N

It starts at 94 and PlayStation and ends up below 94, just east of like the archer farm school, which continues on to another.

H

Association like.

N

Leads to the Mississippi River.

N

We had a meeting with on March 16th with Tom and his associates and Shawn was there and we talked about it because we had a concern about the drainage of the properties. Are the Lots cuz I tell you what on the big rains in the wet seasons, even that ditch takes a lot of water and we still get flooded on our fields and our concern was it's a Tom, the developer, that that ditch is full, yes max and then, when he put 20 to 24 houses on.

B

N

I'm sorry twelve houses on there, but it was higher because he was going with three acre lots. He changed to five, but now coming here tonight. My concern was to that there's no retention pond on that it was seven. Eight there's, seven acres retention pond on that at the beginning, which they said would probably hold plenty of water and wouldn't overflow into our drainage.

N

J

Now the night.

N

We're here it's just gonna be a pawn. It's not a retention on the base, so that kind of disturbs me awesome.

N

People got to live around there to realize the flood 93 flood 273 flood and last year, if the Missouri River would have broke because we had Mississippi water not too far from Church Road I think it was over Church Road.

N

He goes over Church Road on the west side, where the development is, and it will go over on the east side of Church Road people that live on Church Road in 93 use the tractor to get out either both ways. So I don't know where they're coming from when they say you can go out towards the east.

N

These people that live there know what the water can do and what it did that water was over Church Road for good three weeks, so I don't know how they can develop an area at that road goes under water and it will flood again. You know when it could have. Did it last year that Missouri would have broke their levee Church Row is also a big egg business Road to rivers, the coop over there that's a busy road.

N

We talked on about that at that meeting that it is awful busy road for egg a lot of machinery, a lot of tanks go, you know, carrying the chemicals fertilizers, would have you and it just don't seem a good place.

N

You know Tom's a good guy and I like him, but it's not the place. I, don't think that we have to have a subdivision, especially with the road going underwater. Those people are going to be trapped in there.

N

N

I wish the county would think about there's places in this country, good, formerly unlike the north st. Charles County, everybody knows where st. Charles County is north of 90 highway. B we've got to stop this development because of the fact that it's good farm ground and the farmers want to buy this ground on these auctions. But it's the developers bid it up so high. We just can't afford to buy it, but it is good farm ground and there's places in this country where the counties are not allowing developers to purchase good farm ground.

N

Just like ours, st. Charles County has a jewel of farm ground. They don't realize what we got it's being taken away. It's a shame.

A

That's all going to say thank you, sir. Anyone else wishing to speak.

A

Right here you saw me swear or affirm that you tell the truth. The whole truth, nothing, but the truth of these proceedings are the pace and penalties of perjury I do I'm.

I

Richard Boshart I live at 53:19, Blais Station Road, st. Charles, Missouri, 6:3, 301, okay, I farm, the farm west of this development owned by urban rose. Birdy I think you guys got a letter from them. They're opposed of this, and let's see the waterway that Wayne was talking about about a quarter mile north of this development is a railroad and there's only like a 30 inch pipe under that rail room that all this water has to go through and when we have these big rains, it's it's only taking next amount of water.

I

So then the water backs up in the fields and if we have more houses, more runoff, it's just going to be escalating problem so and I would also agree with Wayne that this is prime farmland. I just hate to see it developed I mean our generation, it's not going to matter, but you get into our grandkids and great-grandkids. You know where's their food gonna come from. If you develop all this farmland so anyway, that's about all I got safe. Thank you, sir.

A

This race right here you saw me swearing further to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth in these proceedings are the faints and penalties of perjury I. Do.

M

Still help me guys, please state your name.

A

And address for the record.

M

My full name is Joseph Andrew Walker I go by Andy I lived at 2729 Essex Street in st. Charles area Missouri. Thank.

A

You go ahead, Andy.

M

The property immediately to the south is owned by my wife and her sister, and we have had problems with with drainage through that drainage. Ditch almost every year almost every year, I go out and watch their crops get inundated and killed by exercise runoff. Well, it's there. You got to deal with it. That's farming, but adding these number of houses as a subdivision in that location is good, just going to make a bad problem worse.

M

I, just don't think this is an appropriate place to be putting a subdivision at this time and I don't see any recognition of the flooding problems. I, don't see any approaches to minimizing or reducing the problems that the subdivision would cause I, don't have anything else to say. Thank you. Thank.

A

A

You saw me swear, affirm, is Joe, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth in these proceedings are the pay's of families of perjury. Yes,.

G

Thank you thank.

A

G

Very much mr. chairman members of the Commission, my name is Arne C acd Knopf County Public Advocate in resident mailing addresses p.o box, 1535 Fallon 6-3 3-6.

G

6-2 thousand feet from the corporate limits of the city of st. Charles. Have we notified the city of st. Charles and sent them notification of this preliminary plat I? Don't see anybody representing the city of st. Charles but I'd like to try to get staff in the meaning of inter governmental affairs and trying to reach out to our partners to notify corporate limits when something is affecting their jurisdiction close to their boundaries? I think it's very important to establish that good governance and not hiding anything I agree with this property.

G

The five acre lots 12 Lots on the 72 point: three: nine acres. In my opinion, this is responsible growth and it can be manageable. However, we have heard about drainage issues from three previous speakers and one email comment from a resident and we hear about the oil line, which was of news to me until this evening. Let me address the pipeline.

G

The crude oil I'd like to make sure or I'd like to ask the Commission to add a condition of a special escrow, just in case that the developer damages or disturbs the oil line that, if there's any environmental cleanup or concerns that it be paid for with that escrow. As we all know, if they damage this line, it will cost tens upon hundreds of thousands of dollars to environmentally clean up an oil spill. So that's the number one concern number two, as we heard from the previous speakers and the email comment from the resident drainage.

G

This again needs to be addressed at the staff level and I, don't see any conditions placed by staff. There should be no free passes as a developer. They should be responsible and step up to the plate and be forthcoming in the prevention of any water issues.

G

Now they want to put in a 1.9 acre lake, that's I, don't know if it's a lake or a pond I've heard both in this testimony, but I would like to add a condition that the installation of a filter which would capture the settlements and debris and that will definitely improve water quality. Not by releasing it. There needs to be some type of filtration system.

G

There needs to be some type of responsibility of the developer, because if you have that silt build up and build up in about five 10 years, guess what that cost is gonna, be a cost that homeowners association are those residents who are buying the 12 homes and how are they going to come up with the tens upon tens of thousands of dollars to remove the silt from the bottom of the pond lake again by building these 12 houses they're, taking away leaned absorption areas and will cause flooding elsewhere?

G

That's a known fact: as we heard that there's concerns about roadway flooding, flooding in the farms, farm fields, it needs to be addressed, I haven't heard staff or any questions about the protection of the existing farmers and the existing people living in this neighborhood I. Don't see staff getting involved, that's the plot.

G

That's the point of government is to protect the health, safety and welfare of everybody, not developers and have money, but everybody and I don't see, stop getting involved in ensuring that somebody isn't gonna, be flooded out and lose their livelihood or lose partial part of their income. So the bottom line is the Planning and Zoning Commission needs to start protecting us, the residents over developers. They came after us now. They need to abide by our codify code, chapter 410.

G

They need to live up to their standards and they need to prevent the flooding in this area. You heard the testimony it floods when it rains, but let's put the conditions, let's put the requirements and let's but they're necessary escrows in place to protect the existing people living there in the future, 12 new homeowners, Thank You. Mr. chairman, thank.

A

G

A

Else wishing to speak regarding application, pyaari 20-15 anyone else hearing, no one, we will close the public hearing. Applicants come back.

A

Any questions for the applicant.

D

Yes, I'd like for you to redress the concerns not just about Church Road, especially the drainage issues concerning the the ditch that already exists, and you know how that will be affected by the the homes. Well,.

F

We have all of our homes placed outside of that drainage. Ditch we have all the homes placed above flood plain we're, not grading with inside that existing, ditch and.

F

We're not going to be affected by that ditch as far we're not going to affect that ditch I should say we certainly don't want to alter the ditch. We don't want to alter the drainage of what's going on right now down in that area, we're not going to impede that water, it's going to continue to go from south to north and it's not going to be near the houses. Actually, the houses are all built quite far east of that above flood plain.

H

So where will the water that comes off the roof and the streets and the patios and driveways drain? It's.

F

Going to go to the exact same drainage pattern that is doing today, we're not impeding the drainage that's going on we're not allowed to do that. So we can't take water that was going to the west and push it to or east or to ourselves, so that same water is going to continue to go to the west and it eventually will filter out through that same drainage channel. That's been spoken about.

A

Will there be a homeowner's association? Yes,.

F

There will there's maintenance that will be taking place with the monumentation and the common ground as well.

A

You know the questions for the.

B

Is there gonna be anything planted around the outside of this development? It looks like a like an island to me like in the middle of this endless farmland. Is there gonna be you're gonna plant trees out? There is gonna, be the homeowners responsibility to do that or well.

F

We're I'm gonna, let Jon answer that question most.

J

Likely there will be a combination of both. We will do some landscaping at the entrance to enhance the entrance and most likely put at least one tree, one significant tree per lot on the homes and then beyond that it would be most likely up to the homeowners. Okay.

K

How how high above floodplain is this, so what is the floodplain and how high above it is that.

K

One foot right: it was one foot it's only one foot above floodplain did I read that correctly.

F

To build the homes to is one foot above floodplain I'm, gonna.

F

Floodplain is for 38, our streets are at four four, six, four four eight, so we are four feet above flood plain or actually sorry we're six feet of a floodplain actually with our with our roadway and our Lots are above flood plain as well.

F

We're certainly not going to develop a subdivision, that's below a floodplain and we're not going to sell lots and have people build houses that flood. So we're well aware of the flood requirements of the county and we'll be building structures above flood plain.

A

Any other questions with the applicants. I guess.

H

More philosophical question, but it may be a time to time, but it's been mentioned what great farm round this is. What are your thoughts in terms of developing farm ground into a subdivision, I.

F

Have an opinion on that?

F

Yes, it is farm ground, no doubt about it. There's farm ground all over st. Charles County, whether it be in the bottoms north of st. Charles or whether it be in the bottom south of st. Charles or it be in the western portion of st. Charles there's farms all over st. Charles County.

F

There's! No doubt this is good farm ground I'm, not going to deny that one. So ever I'm, not sure how I am going to answer your question here. To tell you the truth: I can't.

H

Learn how to stop of a question but I think that is something to consider.

H

J

F

F

Well, I, don't know how often that road, floods I'm only going by the maps and the data that I'm that I can research through st. Charles County I, don't actually have the particular dates that it is flooded. I did look at the latest map posted by the GIS department of st. Charles County of the last flood that we had and there was no water over Church Road at that particular time now. Obviously, if a levee breaks such as 1993 that poses an entirely different aspect to st.

F

Johns County farm ground, so I'm not going to look at it in that fashion, we are protected by flood flood levees that are governed by our government.

A

The other questions with the applicant sorry, sir public hearing, is closed. So only the Commission can ask questions any other questions.

A

Hearing none. Thank you. Thank you.

A

We will bring this back to the Commission. Any questions comments, concerns.

A

Public hearings closed.

A

Hearing none we will chair will entertain a motion to approve application. Pyaari 20-15, which is a preliminary plat for twin silos, located at 25 10 Church Road. Is there a motion.

K

Motion, that's.

A

Been made, the motion is there a second.

A

Just a second mr. Kuhn, how do you vote no.

J

A

D

A

L

A

Hollinger no miss favor, no.

L

A

L

A

Cleary and I know: okay, application fails two three four zero: two eight.

A

A

The next item was on our agenda. We have a continued item, which is application pyaari 20-11, which we just considered at the last meeting. This is a preliminary plat for Caudill ville hill located 5225 we're going to lose Road and the applicant request that that stay continued, it's still being considered by the County Council.

A

Next on our agenda is the approval of the minutes of the May twenty twenty twenty meeting. I moved. Is there a second okay.

B

A

In favor, say: aye any planning, zoning division updates, I.

C

Just want to mention that I believe the next meeting of the planning, Zoning Commission, the July meeting, will be held back at the Old Courthouse and that's that's my understanding. We'll.

H

See about that.

A

So anything else to be brought before the Commission sure will entertain a motion to adjourn. Is there a second all in favor, say aye.