St. Charles County Government, MO Planning & Zoning Meetings, 16 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: St. Charles County Planning & Zoning Meeting: March 16, 2022

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Watch the St. Charles County Planning and Zoning meeting from March 16, 2022.

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Welcome to the march 16 2022 planning and zoning commission meeting at this time. I request that everyone please turn off or mute all electronic devices. Also I'd ask one of you to please stand with me for the pledge of allegiance.

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And allegiance the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Applications for temporary fireworks stands heard during tonight's meeting will be voted on by the planning and zoning commission. The vote on these temporary fireworks stands will be final. Only a recommendation for denial would be heard by the county council at their monday april. The 11th 2022 meeting applications for conditional use, permit request and rezoning requests heard during tonight's meeting will be voted on by the commission and the commission will make a recommendation to the county council.

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The applications will then be scheduled to be introduced before the county council at their monday april. The 11th 2022 county council meeting public comment for conditional use. Permit requests will be taken during tonight's meeting and at the council meeting on monday april, the 11th 2022 public comment on conditional use. Permit applications will not, I repeat, will not be taken at any meeting of the county council held thereafter.

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Applications for preliminary plats heard during tonight's meeting will be also voted on by the planning and zoning commission during tonight's meeting. The vote on preliminary plats is final. Only a recommendation for denial of a preliminary plat would be heard during the county council at their monday april. The 11th 2022 meeting the following documents are introduced as a matter of record for this evening's public hearing and regular meeting of the planning and zoning commission.

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Those documents are the unified development ordinance of saint charles county, including zoning maps and the year 2030 master plan for saint charles county, which includes the year 2030 future land use plan map.

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Okay, I see we have a quorum. Is there a motion to open the meeting? Second, second, all in favor sinai there are no changes or additions to tonight's agenda. Before we start uh I'll give you a run down as to how our meetings operate. I will read into the record the application we'll ask the applicant.

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Excuse me: we'll have a report from staff. Then we will ask the applicant to come forward present their application answer. Any questions that the commission may have. Then we will open up the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak regarding the application pro or con can come forward.

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You I will put you under oath you're limited to three minutes, cannot give any remaining time to someone else. Your comments are to be directed to the commission. Okay, once we have closed the public hearing, the commission will take no further public comments on that particular application.

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Once the public hearing is closed, we'll ask the applicant to come back address any issues that may arise out of the public hearing and then the commission will consider the application and take a vote. So that's sort of a pretty quick rundown of how our meeting operates uh tonight. The reason we started an hour early is we have uh 10. um uh Fireworks stands uh it's going to be here sooner than we know.

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Applications to approve this will hopefully go pretty quick. So first item on our agenda is a temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 916 o'brien road. The application is fwk 2201 property owner applicant is wesley godard sold in the c2 general commercial district locations on the east side of o'brien road, approximately 620 feet, north of veterans, memorial, parkway, adjacent to the city of o'fallon, located in council district 4. staff.

B

I believe we need to address the fireworks data regulations. First.

B

um So, as far as um I'm aware, there was no changes to last year's fireworks regulation correct. uh So I think we do need to adopt those. Don't we yeah.

C

The move for approval, the 2022.

D

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Okay, um cheryl entertain a motion to approve the 2022 firework regulations. Is there a motion so.

E

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Okay, there's been a motion and a second to approve the 2022 fireworks regulation, uh all in favor sinai.

F

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They pass okay.

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Well, I overlooked that cool okay, now back to our applications. The first is fwk 22-01.

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The property owner's owner is wesley godard, the zoning is c2 general commercial district location is the east side of o'brien road, approximately 620 feet, north of veterans, memorial, parkway adjacent to the city of o'fallon, located in council district 4 staff.

B

So for this particular property, it is located in the same location that it was located in last year. We have received no complaints on the property and there were no letters or comments from the community on this application.

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Any questions for staff okay applicant come forward.

G

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You saw me swear if you saw me swear or affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

G

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Please state your name and address for the record.

G

It's west goat. Our number two go go to our court. O'fallon missouri.

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Okay, uh any change say anything different from last year to this year,.

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Exactly the same way,.

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Any questions for the applicant okay. Thank you, sir. All.

G

Right. Thank you.

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We will now open the public hearing for uh temporary fireworks, stay in conditional use, permit located at 916 o'brien road, which is fwk 22-01. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

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Do you solemnly swear our friend that you will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth of these proceedings and the pains and penalties of perjury? Yes,.

H

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Please state your name and address for the record. Thank.

H

You very much, mr chairman, members of the commission. My name is arne c ac dinoff county public advocate mainly addressed p.o box 1535. Oh fallon 633-66.

H

It's great to see you all from a month reprieve, uh since something was on the agenda last month in terms of the fireworks stand. Regulations if I interpret state law correctly, I believe under chapter 89 that there should have been a public hearing on those regulations to allow the public to comment on this period and on these regulations, because the commission currently doesn't have a public comment for general items that don't have a public hearing on the agenda. I think it's only wise to allow the public to comment on those regulations.

H

Now we all need to enjoy the july holiday while preserving peace, quality of life and property rights, public health, safety and welfare is the number one priority here: the safety of the tents, the t the tent should be built to withstand 70 mile an hour winds.

H

They need to be secured to the ground properly. Traffic safety needs to be upheld, adequate parking with americans with disabilities act, spaces, restrooms, provided trash and debris. Recycling should be uh taken care of in some fashion or form, so we don't have blowing debris all around the community or neighborhood no shooting off of fireworks on the premises.

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No loud noises to interrupt the neighborhood in quality of life, security of the premise. So there's no theft, no underage sales of anyone under the age of 18 or minors, liability and medical insurance uh or sufficient bonding requirements need to be uh put up with the county. So we know that they're properly uh insured restore the property to its original condition. By october.

H

The regulations in the fireworks regulations- they state no flashing lights, no directing traffic from the roadway onto their premise. I would hope that that would be upheld by county police uh in a traffic plan. Is it required to be filed with the county? Now I have an issue with the hours of operation. Currently the regulations state, uh 8 pm until 9 pm and then 5 days before july, 4. uh Fourth, it changes from 10 a.m to 11 p.m. um Yes, that's correct! uh I would like to propose, I think I have that backwards.

H

uh I think it's 10 to 11 and then it's 10 to 12 30 a.m, and I would like to propose that we have something normal rational to our other business community to the restaurants and other shopping centers, that it'd be 8 a.m until 9 00 pm, and I think that's reasonable. I think to have it past. 9 pm is just disruptive to the neighborhood into adjoining residential districts.

H

I also would encourage pop-up inspections by our county code enforcement by our county building inspectors and, of course, by our county police bomb squad, because I think it's very important for the safety of these facilities.

H

Mr chairman, those are my comments for this individual application. I would ask that my comments also go on the record for each and every succeeding application. Unless I have a special requirement that I don't get up and speak, then.

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Have your comments for the record on all the other proceeding applications? Okay,.

H

I think thank if there's any questions, sir nope nope. Okay, thank you.

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Anyone else wish to speak this public hearing regarding fwk 22-01. Anyone seeing no one. We will close public hearing ask the applicant to come back.

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Anyone have any questions for the applicant.

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How many years have you operated this.

G

uh This will be my 13th year.

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And have there have there been any complaints.

G

Okay, no I've been at this location, for I think this is my sixth or seventh year. It's at a dead-end streets across some apartments and I own the house closest to it. So, okay.

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G

All right, thank you. Okay,.

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Okay, chair will uh any questions. Excuse me get ahead of myself. Any questions from the commission.

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Questions staff.

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Chair will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-01. Is there a motion.

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Made the motion cleary made the second miss bar. How do you vote? Yes? Mr mrs bamer? Yes, mr clary, yes, mr cornwall, yes, mr frohm, yes, uh mr jackson, yes, mr shell, yes, I vote vest, I vote. Yes.

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Next on our agenda is temporary.

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Oh it passed uh temporary fireworks stand, conditional use, permit, fwk 22-02 is located at 58 west highway inn. The applicant is jason and camilla collins. The property owner is stanley and beth carter. The zoning is c2 general commercial district locations on the south side of west highway inn approximately 350 feet west of barron road near the city of winsville, located in council district 2 staff.

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Same as with the last one, this fireworks stand is in the same location as it was last year. We've received no complaints about the property and there were no letters or comments from the community.

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Any questions for staff we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

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Please raise your right hand. You saw me swear or affirm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceedings under the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes, sir, please state your name and address for the record.

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uh My name is jim waymeyer. My address is uh 18 hidden hills drive saint charles missouri 62303. um I am part owner of glory fireworks.

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Okay, complete questions for the applicant.

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Signa. Thank you, sir. We will now open the public hearing for fwk 22-02 fireworks staying located at 58 west highway inn is anyone wishing to speak.

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Mr genovese comments from the prior app will be part of this application. Anyone wishing to speak see no one. We will close public hearing. You want to have any questions for the applicant. Do you need to bring him back?

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Okay, any questions from the commission hearing none chair will entertain a motion to approve uh temporary fireworks, stand conditional use permit located at 58 west highway inn. This is fwk 22-02 is there a motion motion has been made. Is there a second? Second? That's bar mate, the second, mr cleary. How do you vote? Yes, mr cornwall? Yes, mr frohm, yes, mr jackson, yes.

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Shell, yes,.

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Blamer, yes, mrs miss bard. Yes,.

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Vote, yes, it uh that application passes next on our uh agenda is temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 701, lucan house boulevard. This is application. Fwk 22-03, the applicant is marty. J fears registered agent and organizer of show me fireworks. Llc. The property owner is bremer properties llc, the zoning is c2 general commercial district, locates, the locations at the intersection of wall street and looking house luke and house boulevard joining the city of winsfield. This is located in council district, one staff.

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So this one is located in the same position. It was last year, we have received no complaints and there are no letters or comments from the community.

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Any questions for staff see hearing none, we'll ask the applicant to call them forward the applicant.

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Here is not here: okay, we will open a public hearing for fwk 22-03. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application. Mr denver's comments may part of the record for this application, seeing no one. We will close. The public hearing bring this back to the commission for consideration.

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Any questions comments chair will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-03 temporary fireworks conditional use permit located at 701 lieutenant house boulevard. Is there a motion uh due to mr from motion, mr from mr.

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You go get your name in the record chair.

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Mr jackson, how do you vote yes, uh mr cornwall? Yes, mr cleary, yes, ms barr, yes, uh miss bamberg,.

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M

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uh Mr show yes.

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I vote yes, that uh motion passes.

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Next on our agenda is a temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 1429 granville drive, the application is fwk 22-04. The applicant is marty. J fears registered agent and organizer of show me fireworks, llc uh property owners gerald a bummer and judith a bamer family partnership. Lp, the zoning is c2 general commercial district. The location is on the east side of granville drive approximately 170 feet from highway, 4061 adjacent to the city of o'fallon, located in council district, one staff.

B

This particular location is located in the same position. It was last year, we've received no complaints and no letters or comments are from the community.

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Any questions for staff, seeing none will open the public hearing for application. Fwk, 22-04 or temporary fireworks stand located at 1429 granville drive. So anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

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Do you solemnly swear firmness you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury? Yes, I do please state your name and address for the record. Thank you very.

H

Much, mr chairman, members of the commission, my name is arnie c ac dinoff county public advocate uh mailing address is po box 1535 in o'fallon, and I'm a big person on ethics. um I don't we have a commissioner who may be or may not be related to these owners of the property.

H

I would ask because of ethics and just to be on the up and up that this commissioner recuse themselves from this vote, and I think that's the proper thing to do under state law under missouri regulation, missouri ethic regulations and our home rural county charter. I feel that when there's a personal stake or personal financial interest that that commissioner shall recuse himself and they really should remove themselves from the discussion and the room totally that's how it's usually done in most governmental bodies.

H

Those are my comments, mr chairman, and I want to put them on the record.

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Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak in the public hearing for fwk 22-04.

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Saying no one, we will close. The public hearing bring this back to the commission. Any questions comments.

O

Just for the record, mr dunhoff, as I did last year, I abstained from the vote for this as well, because it is related to my family and I abstain. I told them before I walked in that I'd, be abstaining from the vote.

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Okay, the chair will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-04 temporary fireworks, stand uh conditional use permit located at 1429 granville. Is there a motion.

F

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uh Mr jackson made the motion: is there a second second, mr cornwall? The second miss bamer.

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uh Mr clary, yes.

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Cornwall, yes,.

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Bar yes, uh mr frohm, yes, uh mr jackson, yes, mr show yes and I vote yes. This application passes.

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Next on our agenda is temporary. Fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 21 east highway inn. This is application. Fwk 22-06, the applicant is merrimack specialty company, the property owner is the baker family company 2 llc zoning is c2 general commercial district locations on the northeast corner of highway inn and highway z near the city of winsfield, located in council district 2 staff.

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This tent will be located in the same position. It was last year. We have not received any complaints on the property and there were no letters or comments from the community.

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Any questions for staff hearing none. We will open we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

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Please please right hand: you saw me swear firmly you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

P

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State your name and address for the record.

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Tom dixon mailing address po box 305 arnold missouri 63010.

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Okay, any questions for the applicant.

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Airing no questions for the applicant. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We will now open the public hearing for fwk 22-06, which is a temporary fireworks. Stand conditional use permit located at 21 east highway end. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

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Mr dennell's prior comments will be made part of the record for this application.

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Seeing no one wishing to speak, we'll close the public hearing bring this back to the commission for consideration. Any questions comments chair will entertain a motion to approve application. Fwk 22-06, temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 21 east highway inn. Is there a motion mr prom made? The motion? Is there a second miss bamer made the second, mr cleary? How do you vote? Yes, mr cornwall? Yes, uh miss barr, yes, uh miss bamer! Yes, uh mr frohm.

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uh Mr shell, yes, mr jackson,.

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And I vote yes, this application passes.

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Next on our agenda is temporary. uh Fireworks stand conditional, use permit located at 2301 upper bottom road. The application is fwk 22-07, the applicant is merrimack specialty company, the property owner is taco upper bottom road llp, an extra l in there the zoning is c2. General commercial district location is on the northwest corner of upper bottom road and highway 364 near the city of st charles, located in council district 7. staff.

B

Okay, this tent will be located in the same position. It was last year. We have received no complaints on the property and no letters or comments from the community.

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Any questions for staff.

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Saying none we will ask the applicant to come forward.

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The asylum is where our affirmation will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth. These proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

P

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Please state your name and address for the record.

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Mailing address tom dixon mailing address po box 305 arnold missouri 63010.

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Any questions for the applicant.

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Hearing none. Thank you, sir. We will now open the public hearing for temporary fireworks. Stand conditional use permit located at 2301 upper bottom road. The application is fwk 22-07. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

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Anyone, mr denoff's comments prior comments, will be made part of the record, seeing no one. We will close the public hearing for fwk 22-07, bring it back to the commission for consideration. Any questions, comments, concerns hearing, none sure will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-07. Is there a motion?

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Mr clearly made the motion news or a second? Second? uh Mr show me.

N

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Mr jackson, how do you vote yes, mr frohm? Yes, mr cornwell, yes.

O

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Bamer, yes, uh mr cleary, yes.

O

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Barb, yes, uh mr shell, yes.

N

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I vote yes, this application passes.

A

Next on our agenda is temporary. Fireworks stand conditional, use permit located at 3707 veterans memorial parkway. The application is fwk 22-08. The applicant is merrimack specialty company. The property owner is 3707 veterans, memorial, parkway holdings llc, the zoning is c2 general commercial district. The location is on the southeast corner of arco, drive and veterans. Memorial parkway joined the city of saint charles. uh This is located in council district, five staff. Okay,.

B

The tent will be located in the same position. It was last year, uh we've received no complaints and we also have no letters or comments from the community.

A

Any questions for our staff hearing, none we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

A

We have to do this for every application. That's okay! Do you solemnly swear from us you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth in these proceedings or the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

P

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State your name and address for the record tom.

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Dixon p.o box 305 arnold missouri, 63010.

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Any questions for mr dixon hearing none. Thank you, sir.

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We will now open the public hearing for fwk 22-08, which is a temporary fireworks, stand conditional use permit located at 37 old, 37.07 veterans, memorial parkway. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this conditional use permit seeing no one. Mr dendolf's prior comments will be part of the record regarding this application.

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We will close the public hearing and bring this back to the commission for consideration. Any questions comments, concerns.

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Hearing none sure will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-08. Is there a motion so.

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Oh mr clinton well made the motion: is there a second second uh we'll give that one to mr jackson, all right, mr shell? How do you vote? Yes, uh miss bamer? Yes,.

F

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Cleary, yes, mr frohm, yes.

M

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Bar yes, mr cornwell.

J

Yes, uh mr jackson,.

F

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And I vote yes, this application passes.

A

How many more we get.

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Next item on agenda is a temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 1250 mexico road. The application is fwk 22-09. The applicant is merrimack specially realty.

A

The property owner is jmz, the third real llc, the zoning is l1 light industrial district, the locations on the northwest corner of the intersection of mexico road and highway, a adjacent to the city of winsfield. This is located in council district, one staff.

B

This tent will also be located in the same location as it was last year. We've received no complaints and no letters or comments from the community.

A

Any questions for staff.

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Seeing none, we will uh our hearing none. We will ask the applicant to come forward.

A

You saw me swear permits you'll, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

F

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State your name and address for the record.

P

Mailing address po box 305 arnold missouri, 63010 name, tom dixon, okay,.

A

Any questions for mr dixon hearing no questions. Thank you, sir. Thank.

Q

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We will now open the public hearing for fwk 22-09 temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 1250 mexico road. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this uh application for a temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit, seeing no one mr genoa's comments prior comments will may be made part of the record regarding this application.

A

We'll bring this back to the commission for consideration and questions comments, concerns hearing, none sure will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-09. Is there a motion.

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Made the motion: is there a second second? Yes, ii, uh miss barb brother, mr boehmer. How do you vote yes,.

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J

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Cornwall, yes,.

J

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Jackson, yes, mr trump, yes.

E

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E

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Barn, yes and I vote yes, this application passes.

A

Let me get this done. Oh, we only got two more next on our agenda is temporary fireworks stand conditional use permit located at 3120 west clay street. The application is fwk 22-10. The applicant is bad boys. Fireworks jay davidson the property owner is tgl properties. Llc, the zoning is c2 general commercial district.

A

The location is on the northeast corner of the intersection of west clay and gulf way street near the city of saint charles, located in council district 6 staff.

B

This tent will be located in the same position. It was last year. We have received no complaints, but we do have one letter of opposition from the community.

A

Okay, any questions for staff.

A

Hearing none, we will ask the applicant to come forward.

A

Do you swear? Our affirmation will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes, please state your name and address for the record. That's.

Q

Craig applegate 3700 killarney court, st john missouri, 63114, okay,.

A

Any questions for the applicant were you in this location last year: yes, okay, any questions, hearing none! Thank you, sir. We will now open the public hearing for uh temporary fireworks. Stand conditional use permit located at 3120 west clay street the application fwk 22-10.

A

Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

A

Anyone seeing no one. Mr uh denoff's prior comments, we've made part of the record for this application. No we'll close the public hearing.

A

Anyone on the commission have any questions comments. Concern regarding the this application.

A

Hearing none the chair will entertain a motion to approve fwk 22-10. Is there a motion.

O

A

Notion has been made. Is there a second.

J

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Mr cornwell major second.

E

Mr from how do you vote.

M

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Mr jackson, yes.

E

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E

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uh Mr cleary, yes.

E

Miss bamer, yes,.

A

uh Mr shell, yes and I've- uh oh mr cornwell, I'm sorry! Yes, gotcha.

D

A

A

That application passes okay. Last but not least, next on our agenda is a temporary fireworks. Stand conditional use permit located at 5706 lake, st louis boulevard. The application is fwk 22-11. The applicant is bad boys. Fireworks jay davidson the property owner is the inertia school of dance. The zoning is c1 neighborhood commercial district.

A

This is on the east side of lake, st louis boulevard, 500 825 feet north of hawk ridge trail near the city of lake, st louis, located in council district 2 staff. Okay,.

B

This tent is located in the same place. It was last year, we've received no complaints and there are no letters or comments from the community.

A

Any questions for staff.

A

Hearing none we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

A

You saw me swear. I affirmed that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

Q

A

State your name and address for the record.

Q

That's craig applegate 3700, killarney court, st john missouri 63114.

A

Any questions for the applicant hearing, none. Thank you, sir. We will now open the public hearing for fwk 22-11, which is a conditional use permit for a temporary fireworks, stand located at 5706 lake, st louis boulevard. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

A

Anyone seeing no one, uh mr dinos prior comments, will be made part of the record for this application.

A

Okay, any questions of the commission hearing, none the cheer will entertain a motion to approve uh uh temporary fireworks, stand conditional use permit located at 5706 lake, st louis boulevard. This is application fwk 22 11.. Is there a motion.

N

A

Mr shell made the motion: is there a second second, ms barmaid, the second miss paper? How did you vote? Yes, uh mr cornwall? Yes.

O

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Frohm, yes,.

O

D

J

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Cleary? Yes, mr jackson, yes, mr shell, yes.

N

A

I vote yes and that application passes. Okay.

O

So if you're for the fireworks stands- and you want to leave, go ahead, you.

D

O

If you want to go.

O

A

The next item on our agenda is a conditional use permit request located at 4180 benny road. This is application number cup 21-21 property owners are lynn, p, nelson and tamara t nelson revocable, qualified spousal trust. The current zoning is a agricultural district. The conditional use permit request is a private school.

A

The parcel size is five acres. The location is on the south side of benny road, a half mile east of highway d. This is located in council, just council district 2 staff.

R

Okay, as stated, can you hear me okay, as stated the proposal is for a private school and rather than being allowed by right in the agricultural zoning district, which is how this property is owned. The county's zoning regulations require that this be approved through a conditional use permit, so that the public can have a chance to review the land use impacts for neighbors when you think of a school there's, a gigantic spectrum of school sizes and school impacts.

R

Just to let you know right off the the at the beginning here that they're proposing a school of of 20 students or up to 20 students. So my comments will be along those lines so that you'll understand. Obviously, private schools can be hundreds, if not potentially thousands of students and those have all sorts of impacts, including uh parking and queuing of parents, dropping off kids and and it's a high school. Then you have a lot more parking needs and school buses and etc.

R

But again this is a private school for up to 20 children. The location is on the south side of benny road and it's actually in the it's within a subdivision. Technically called a freedom, ranch subdivision was just planted in december and that gave us county staff a little pause because the application was turned in just days after the plot was approved and it wasn't even on the maps yet. But we've got all that behind us. Now. We've got the parcel identified for you. We have notification, maps and letters that have gone out correctly.

R

The location does not have public sewer or water, so they're, proposing on the western half I'll call it of the property to have a a on-site, sewage disposal, drain field and also water well as well. So the building codes have some setbacks between or separations between, those two. We won't have to deal with that here, but just to let you know there are some county rules that have to do with that. So on the well I'll call the east side of the property. Of that five acres.

R

You've got a um do. You have the concept plan. Thank you appreciate it. um The on the east side, the concept is to have a building, that's 300 feet long and about 65 feet wide that will be utilized for a private teaching facility. uh Students will be family and children of owners, employees.

R

I don't have more information than that in terms of their internal structure or operations. I'm sure the the applicants can tell you more about that they're, stating that this school will have a maximum of 20 students at full capacity with three teachers. It will include classrooms, an indoor recreation area, slash tennis, court and storage area.

R

Just so you know under the building code, I'm understanding that the building will need to either be sprinklered, which would be difficult if you have on-site well for water source or the uh the tennis court area, that recreation area there's a way that you can put a firewall in there separate the two areas, so you won't have to sprinkle the building. You don't have to worry about that, but I just mentioned that because that's something that the applicant should be aware of and it's doable, but it I wanted to make it people aware of that.

R

One of the impacts that we always encounter uh or usually encounter with schools is how to deal with uh not just parking and traffic, but also recreation areas, in this case they're proposing a soccer field just south of the building soccer practice field. When I first saw this my cons major concern, my first concern was: is this going to be open to public events? Will there be bleachers? Will there be concession stands and loudspeakers will lights be affecting neighbors? That was my first concern.

R

So in this case they have addressed that by stating that it's a practice field for the kids there's only going to be 20 students. Anyway, I mean. Maybe there may be some additional kids that they're another team, possibly that they're playing against, but really it's a practice field.

R

Also you'll see that there's a landscape buffer, uh that's located around the east, south and west side. Also, the county's regulations for light poles has a limit of 20 feet in height and we're suggesting some ways to that. You could uh deal with light impacts in uh as well as noise impacts as part of conditions um it uh the in terms of parking, it's it does meet the minimum parking requirements.

R

So I would say probably that your consideration, if you want to look on the staff report at the four conditional use, permit criteria, I think you'd be best to focus on those and think about what the land use impacts would be for neighbors. Would the conditional use be detrimental or to or endanger public health, safety or general welfare?

R

Would the condition use injure the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes already permitted order, the aesthetic and or scenic values of the vicinity? Would the conditional use substantially diminish and impair property values within the neighborhood?

R

Would establishment of the conditional use impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of surrounding property for uses permitted in the district?

R

One? Other thing I would mention is that the location of this proposed conditional use they would take access from a public road benny road rather than from internally from within the private street within the subdivision, and I wanted to point that out because occasionally we'll have conditional use permits that want to be located back in the corner of a subdivision somewhere, it would draw commercial traffic I'll call it through that residential neighborhood, but this is instead, the accesses to many abroad.

R

County staff recommends approval with specific conditions for your consideration.

R

There's eight conditions that we're suggesting that you have first as a starting point to um to address one phone call that I received and by the way we have two letters of opposition from the vermets and marcia gay, as well as three letters of concern from the clemence, the bennies and the grangers.

R

But, to get back to the comment that I I received from a phone call, um we were suggesting that there be a limit placed. Excuse me. Maximum number of students enrolled at any one time shall be 50.. That number 50 is is an arbitrary number.

R

It could be 20 because that's what they're applying for, but I was suggesting leaving some flexibility in case you have, let's just say you have a family and they have four children and they're already at 20, you know and they they could accept three, but not four. Something like that. I was suggesting that to leave a little bit of flexibility for the applicants, but still have some predictability for neighbors.

R

In other words, if you have a cup without any sort of limitations on the number of kids, could this potentially they come back? The applicant can come back with you know, 400 students or a thousand students or whatever, instead of the number that they proposed in order to get the cup so.

A

Any questions for staff.

E

I've got a couple.

O

um What ages of kids are these going to be.

R

The applicant's going to address that okay.

O

And you talk about the sprinkler systems in it being on on a well system and looking at some of the letters, opposition and some things like that, there's. Obviously there was a big issue on water availability um already for people who live there and then putting in a bit a place for another 20 or 50 people, and then thinking of a sprinkler system.

O

Is that a concern.

R

uh No, as long as they can um deal with the question about the fire code in terms of I'm, I'm guessing there's going to be firewall separation rather than there is a way to do sprinklers and wells, but it's uh more costly and and difficult to do. But they answer your question. No. I will add to that that remember. You might remember that across the street, the brew house that has a conditional use permit and that was approved several years ago.

R

The county council has approved several extensions for conditional use permits that were about to expire during the um during the um pandemic.

R

However, we still do not have plans in for that project and that cup expiration date is now at the end of may so that facility across the road. Basically that brew house they were going to use well water and that would been a large consumer of water. But I'm thinking that that's out now, because I cannot imagine that that will that will get approved before the end of may.

R

That's not to say that the applicants for the brewhouse couldn't come back later, I suppose and reapply, but um that would have been in that case they they actually said they were going to be drawing from a deeper uh aquifer rather than the upper aquifer, where most folks in this area can come from. But I just wanted to throw that in there. So you would know that.

N

I've got a question as well. I know you had mentioned benny road and I obviously very familiar what type of traffic do we do a traffic impact on this, and I mean I know it's 18 parking spots right, but is that something that the county highway has considered in that area? No.

R

um The county highway department, we had them review this, they didn't have any comments now I will say when you get down on the curve farther west. If this were on the curve, there would be more concern about putting a driveway close to that curve, but I believe that this proposed driveway is far enough from that curve that the sight distance is much better than farther west, but just in terms of traffic generation uh 18 parking spaces. I don't think excuse me.

R

That's going to present a problem in terms of um in terms of what's the word, I'm looking for.

N

Capacity right capacity- and I don't know that 18 parking spots at 8 a.m, when kids are coming to school, will because of the limited number of kids. But I I just thought about the situation of. I got two teams that are out here practicing doing a scrimmage game on a saturday morning and you got increased flow of traffic of kids, getting dropped off and in and out and you're right it is, I mean we saw the picture, it's very close to a 90 degree turn so, and it's.

R

A narrow pavement width too.

N

Very narrow from what I remember it is.

O

um If we want to, I, since I don't know the age of the kids and who's going to be practicing, and are they going to be renting out the fields to other teams to come, do those things I read: there were some concerns about 11 p.m, and for for soccer at night, for kids, who are in first to fourth grade at 11 p.m, does seem a little bit late. So can we adjust that? um Oh.

A

O

After we find out about more.

A

Those are just recommendations.

R

Okay, yeah those are just suggestions as a starting point from for discussion purposes. Okay,.

D

A

Questions for staff.

A

And then we ask the applicant to come forward.

A

Hello, okay, are you both going to speak yeah, okay, I'll need to swear both david? You saw me swear our affirmative you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are in the past and penalties of perjury.

A

Please state your names and addresses.

S

For the record, uh patrick nelson 9716, avondale hills, lane winsville missouri.

T

uh Gary kimble uh 4053, north st peters, parkway, st peters,.

A

T

uh I'm just civil with this and he's the owner. So if we have your your concerns about the children he's going to be able to answer those for you.

O

So go ahead so.

S

Do you have que, I mean yes, so what will the.

O

Age of the kids be.

S

Between the ages of 3 to 14, but only because my grandkids are three so after that, once the grandkids get older, more age is from like kindergarten till they start high school. So they would end in eighth grade.

O

Okay and will be buses, I'm.

S

O

Be buses at all.

S

No, so here so the first eight children live in the subdivision, so the freedom ranch. It does isn't a subdivision. It's three houses, my house is on 25 acres and my kids will be each be on 10 acres, and so, where you see those the soccer field in the trees, my dog, my son's property, is adjacent to that. So the subdivision only has three houses. You can't hardly see a house from this building if you looked really hard um so as far as impact uh and in the beginning, the only kids will be going.

S

There are my grandkids and then I will open it up to uh members of my so this year I mean I own a business here in st charles. I have a lot of people that couldn't come to work because they were home with their kids. It was very disruptive, quite honestly for the last two years. I think it's disruptive for the kids. I think it's disruptive for the business, so I'm really just trying to offer a place.

S

That's why I say 20 students, because it's not I'm not trying to it's a not-for-profit, I'm not trying to make money on a school, I'm just trying to get kids educated and offer a place where we can keep consistencies of education. My oldest grandchild's, five, my youngest one's in the belly, and I have seven of them and the eighth one on the way. So I'm just trying to offer a place where we can have consistent education.

S

So, in the beginning those parking lot, those parking spots will never be used once I open it up to kids, and I don't really want to do that for a year, and I only say that, because I've never owned a school before and I'm going to hire people to do this, obviously, but I want to make sure that it's good and consistent before other parents would come along because if they didn't like it, I wouldn't really want them to complain about it.

S

I'd like to get it right before we, you know, I mean I can test it on my grandchildren. I guess.

O

Do you plan on renting out or loaning the fields for other teams other than just your team.

S

No, I do not, and I don't really have a team- that's why it was kind of it's just it's more of an activity field for kids and I grew up playing. I play college soccer, so you know I mean I think I hope they're going to play soccer. Let me know if they're going to play soccer, it's really more of a recreational field. I just wanted to make sure I got the use determined in case. I did want to do it for that.

S

I didn't want to have to come back and really go through the process. Again, to be honest with you,.

E

So to clarify this is a school for your grandchildren. Well,.

S

It's not just yeah.

D

S

G

What is your business.

S

Midtown home improvements, oh.

E

Sure so we're pretty good size from from companies. So some of the the employees they weren't able to come to work because their kids were home and they.

S

Had to stay home yeah, that was the rule, so this is.

E

Kind of a situation where you're just trying to provide stability and for them so that they have a place to go. It.

C

E

Not necessarily a daycare per.

S

Se, but really I pledged 20 years so I I pledged a certain amount of money that I would give away for the next 20 years that will more than fully fund this school. Okay, um so it'll be more than just mine, because I think you should give back to a little bit more, but it will be for the employees as well and it doesn't mean that there couldn't be somebody who's outside of my work.

S

That could you know not bring their kids there, but but that's my main use, that's my main purpose as to why I got started down this road honestly.

F

And so the question here so initially um the application was for 20 students with potential going up to 50.. In your estimation, given that you're testing this out on your grandkids and your employees, what is really the realistic number that you think you would have.

S

No, the kids or the my grandkids are the tests the employees will come later and I don't really my budget will be somewhere between three. My budget will be three teachers. I know how much money I'm putting in. I know what budget teachers are going to get paid and I know the things that I want to be able to do so. It's really a budget limitation. Unless I can, you know fundraise, which I don't intend to do so.

S

This has been far more work than I thought it was going to be just to go to school in the first place. So it's way over my head, where I'm at right now, but it's not my goal to have 50 kids, it's my goal to really educate my head, educate my grandkids and then help out employees that work with me, because the next thing is it's not just that, but the cost of I don't know if you know what it costs.

S

My daughter has: four children: it cost her five thousand dollars a month to send these kids to school, to daycare in school. I'm like and they're four and under I don't. Even know how people can afford that, but I mean it's it's craziness to me so um it'll, be it won't cost them anywhere near that because I'm intending to fund the school.

A

Now, will you be subject to any state education regulations.

S

I assume that probably I'm going to be honest with you until I can get through this. It's going to take me eight months to get a building after you guys, hopefully say yes right, so I'm so I mean, like I said I was hoping to be done by now, but to even get far that far down the road. I can't order a building until I get a use right, because the building cost me a couple million dollars, so I mean once I say yes to them.

S

I have to follow through with that, so I haven't even got that far, but I mean I own several businesses, I'm pretty good at putting the right people in charge and they're going to educate my grandchild, my grandchildren, so I will hire the best people that I can find to put them in charge of education.

A

Ms paul didn't you home school.

E

I did yes for 19 years, yeah.

F

U

E

Are this is the first year they're in a very small private school about 12, kids right.

S

So, and that's kind of my goal is to keep classrooms very, please clap class sizes, very small.

A

Are there there are best mileage, there's, not any specific state regulations on home school? Is there.

E

There are yes for homeschooling, uh the biggest one is that they have to have a thousand hours that you're supposed to keep track of yeah, and then you know so if he was just doing his grandkids, um not a hundred percent. Typically with homeschooling, it's the parents or the grandparents and typically they're not paid, um I'm not 100, familiar with whether you can hire someone to do that. If, if, if it's just his grandkids, it may very well be considered. I've had.

S

Friends that had last year during the issue where they hired four or five of them, got together and they hired.

E

People to come.

S

Over and educate their children because their kids were out of school. I mean right.

E

You know so being that it's just a family, it might initially be considered a homeschool until other people come in yeah.

A

I

Would there be any reason you could ever see that it would go to 50? I mean, like robert said, 20 with relatives. I can't imagine.

S

Sure, well, you know the kids will age out too so I mean in here. Did I tell you? I live on that 25 acres in the 10 acres and acres, so there's a reason why it's not coming in through the subdivision, because I didn't want it to so. I have no more interest in bringing in a lot of people than anybody else here, because I'm moving out to those. If you stood on those 50 acres and you looked around- I don't know you said you're familiar out there, there's nothing out there guys.

I

So 20 is what you it you're fine with the.

S

25 acres on the other side is.

I

About 20, to the reason.

S

Oh 20, I mean you know, could there be 30 students? I don't know, there's three teachers. So if you theoretically said even 12, kids per teacher then could have.

S

I mean I think that they'll never be 50, because that sounds like a real headache to me, and I just I don't think the funding is there to be able to provide for that many students and I want to make sure I can provide for the students that are going to be there with as low of a cost and little of an impact to their parents, as I possibly can, because you know I have people that work for me and that you know they don't make 300 000 a year so when they start putting their kids into school, it's very expensive.

S

If you guys have kids at this age, you would see I'm just lucky. I don't have kids at this age anymore, um because I don't know how they do. It would.

O

You be okay, then, if we limited it to 30 students, would that be a problem for you.

S

No, I you know, I don't it doesn't really. I don't see that going beyond that. If it did, I would come back and repetition you if something happened and, quite frankly, if I came back to repetition- and I was providing an education for that many people, I'd fill this whole place with their parents and you would have no choice but to say yes.

V

D

S

But at this stage of the game I just really need to get my. I really need to get a building ordered. I really need- and I evidently I got a whole bunch of other things and I know about the firewall and I'm in the construction business, so I intend to build a firewall at that part. I did understand and I I think the impact on water I mean I I just I live out there on a. I have a well.

S

I live two miles down the road here right now: um people watering their lawn all over the place, there's far more impact on our wells than what is going to happen in the school. I can assure you that.

A

There are questions for the applicant.

A

Okay, because robert he could, since this is his own agriculture, he could build this building.

A

If he wanted to to be a a barn, couldn't he.

S

Right, yes, yeah, but you can't do over 4 800 square feet. Trust me this.

I

S

So anything over 4800 square feet. You have to find.

W

S

A use permit and then that's how we got to here because yeah I won't say I would have done it like that in the first place.

D

S

Just been the way it would have been homeschool, but that might have been the way I was trying to do it, but that's not the way we are now.

F

R

Yeah, there's uh large storage buildings, personal storage, buildings, all call them, and also agricultural buildings can be built in the agricultural zoning district and that's not uncommon. In fact, some of these agricultural buildings are we've had them like 100 feet by 200 feet. You know when you talked about heavy equipment, storage and things like that. So.

A

Okay, any other questions for the applicant.

M

Did you talk to the people that had concerns in opposition by chance? Have you talked to.

S

Them I have no idea who that could possibly be there's like I said you can see that benny's actually sold me the property so I'll be calling them. Now that I know they wrote a letter of concern when I get home I'll be asking them what that was about, but there's just there's.

S

They have a little bitty house across the street. That looks like it's maybe 600 feet. I don't think anybody lives in and then there's only one other person that can even see this school and it's I mean if you were to look at.

I

S

Yeah, it's it's uh yeah.

I

I'm just patrick I'm just.

M

S

If you've talked about.

M

That no, I have no.

S

Idea that anybody even had an opposition all right.

A

Okay, thank you, sir sure.

S

A

We will now open the public hearing for uh conditional use, permit request at 4180 benny road. This is cup 21-21.

A

And before we start, I forgot, since I knew we were going to have very few people speak at the fireworks. uh If you do speak, we ask that you fill out one of these cards or right at the corner of the table. This way, we are sure that we get your name and address correct in our minutes. Okay, anyone wishing to speak regarding this conditional use permit just come forward.

A

Please raise your right hand. Do you suddenly swear our firm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the praise and penalties of perjury.

A

Please state your name and address for the record.

X

My name is marcia gay and I live at 4570 huffmire road defiance, missouri 63341, okay, go.

A

X

I like to start by saying I oppose this school in this location as the crow flies I'm about 1500 feet from this school. I know he says you can't see any homes, but they are there a lot of times the trees kind of cover that my biggest concern is the water.

X

Well, and I know that you brought up the issue with the across the street with the brewery the agreement was, and I'm pretty sure this is true- that he would dig his well deeper than the aquifer that we all work out of all the neighbors around hoffmeyer and benny, we're all. On the same aquifer and several years ago a neighbor had built a new house and had a semi truck full of sod delivered, and by coincidence I can't prove anything.

X

The next day my well went dry and I had to have a new, well dog. So after that I heard another neighbor had well issues as well and that his well went dry. So I don't think that a well to support 20 students and a soccer field is the way to go. I think county water needs to be continued down this road. If that's the way they want to go or they need to have the same agreement that mr bush had to dig into a deeper aquifer.

X

I think 1500 feet and I got those numbers from the well company that had to redig mine. So that's one of my concerns. The other is the road. The road is a narrow road. It's it's a dangerous road! There's multiple accidents on this road, there's two 90 degree turns and a single lane bridge: that's not a place to put a school.

X

Unless this county wants to come in and do something else with the road. I don't think it's a it's a good fit and those that of us that live out in that area. We, like our rural community. We don't want the lights from a soccer field at 11 o'clock at night. I think that's not a place to have that. I think you can give them 10 o'clock it's too late when you've got little kids out there playing you don't want them out at 10 o'clock.

X

At night, I've raised my children out there and I don't think that's a viable answer as well. Where, from where I sit, I can hear and see the two miles away: the new melee recreational area.

X

So, if that, if I'm 1500 feet from this, but I'm two miles away from demeli and I can hear it and see it- I I can't accept that- that's not a viable solution, so I have a concern with the roads, the lights, the water, the sewer, and I just think it's as he said in the beginning, we may have 20 students and I think that opens the door to have multiple students come to this location and having it on benny road with the road conditions. The way they are. I don't think that's.

X

I think that that just lends for something worse to happen. So that's my opposition to this proposal.

A

Any questions for ms kay.

M

If he could solve a water problem, would you be okay with it.

X

I think solving the water problem is just a start. I think limiting the amount of students would be. The second thing would.

O

30 students be acceptable if there was a max of 30 and the lights were off at 9 00 pm would that be acceptable.

X

Not to me so how many students would do.

M

O

M

X

O

And what about the lights.

X

Nine o'clock would be better nine yeah. You only keep a five-year-old old at nine o'clock at night.

X

A

D

Other questions.

A

Okay, thank you. Ma'am.

X

Thank you for your time.

A

Everyone else wishing to speak regarding the conditional use permit 21-21.

D

Y

I'm going to speak on behalf of everybody.

A

Oh okay, is everybody going everybody going to speak with history? I'm.

Y

Going to speak yeah, I'm just here- oh you're, just my neighbor decoration.

A

I'm sorry, I should have said so I'll just swear you in okay, you saw me swear to a firm which will tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings or the pace and punish your perjury. Please state your name and address for the record.

Y

Sarah and justin vermette 4163 benny road.

A

Okay, go ahead.

Y

Y

um Just want to talk about the bush thing too. The deeper was definitely true that was definitely agreed upon. He was going completely in a different spot.

Y

My husband and I as well of our fellow neighbors, are firmly opposed to this private school. At the very least, we have some very serious concerns regarding the conditional use permit. We are the neighbor located directly to the north of the proposed private school and we have lived happily in this rural area for more than 10 years.

Y

We'd like to first address capacity. The 50 is insane it's 150. On top of what they've asked for they've asked for 20, why don't we give them 20.? It sounds as a direct neighbor. That increase is not a small amount.

Y

We can understand a little leeway, but this seems unnecessary, especially when they're talking about the head count being years down the road. It sounds like they've already built that into their estimate. Additionally, the application includes a parking lot for 18 vehicles. The amount is triple what is suggested for the county for private schools, which is one spot for eight students, plus one space per employee at full capacity.

Y

In that case, it's a total of six spots since the application says again: 20 students, three teachers, years down the road. What's the need for such a large parking lot, even at the pmc staff's recommendation of 50 students, the required spot is still less than 18..

Y

My understanding is that the original plants included a second building being 280 by 85, which is not small.

Y

Can you please confirm the additional building has truly been removed from the plans and today's decision, since it was still included in the documents just last friday, and second is the second part. Second parking lot size required. Is the parking lot size required to now house the tractors vehicles, mowers utvs that would have been in the second building?

Y

That view would certainly hinder the ambiance of the area potentially impacting property values.

Y

Both items, the increased capacity and the super big parking lot seem to indicate that there are plans to open the school to a wider audience and add students outside of the current plan set before you to approve, but shouldn't that be evaluated appropriately and in the future. Not now the proposed entrance is located on what is described as a minor arterial road again, as someone who lives there works from home and sees the traffic day in and day out, this verbiage is inaccurate.

Y

Benny road is a major cut through between highway d and highway double d and is narrow, with deep ditches and two very sharp 90 degree turns and a one lane bridge very recently, a car failed to make the 90 degree turn at the narrow bridge and the sign is still knocked down.

Y

Benny road is not only used by normal passenger vehicles, but also heavily used by dump trucks, farm equipment and other large commercial vehicles. My guess is that close to 90 percent, if not more of all, these vehicles are going in excess of the speed limit of 35 miles an hour.

Y

We witness the speeding situation every day as we get our child on, and off the bus and anytime we try to pull out of our driveway safely. In addition to the existing drives, there are two pending entrances off of any road being built. This school would be a third additional drive in very close proximity.

Y

We do not yet know the impact of the two approved drives, so approving a third is irresponsible. The straight views in the cup document are also quite deceiving.

Y

The photo labeled benny road looking east doesn't clearly show the lack of visibility when coming over that hill. If we consider the estimate of the typical speed of 50 plus on the road minimal visibility is extremely dangerous. Based on this application, an interested school is being proposed off bunny road next to the school.

Y

Another entrance is being designed for the freedom range subdivision currently owned by the same applicants on this cup in the best interest and safety of all who travel, work and live on the throne, would it make more sense to have only one entrance to the school? A freedom ranch regarding the lighting 11 is too late. That's insane at a minimum week night should be less due to the increased runoff from the new construction flooding of my neighbor's property could increase.

Y

It already happens every time it rains. We would expect that drainage is appropriately addressed to prevent negative impacts to established residents. We kindly request you consider our thoughts and opinions and making your decision and nasa you put yourselves in our shoes as a direct neighbor in considering this application.

A

A

Very good, thank you.

Z

She read so fast.

A

D

A

To read along she talks fast, you saw me swear. I affirmation will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth and these proceedings when there pays them penalties for perjury. Yes,.

H

I do thank you very much, mr chairman. Members of the commission. My name is arne c ac. Dinoff county public advocate mainly address po box 1535 o'fallon 633.66.

H

First of all, I want to put on record it's information that I've obtained. I very strongly believe it's about 99 that the bush deal is a dead project. I don't think it's going to go forward. I don't think the financing is there and I think it's going to be a dead project.

H

The second issue is the five acres of this school proposed school is a tight squeeze for this proposal. If you look at it, there's no room for anything else to be put on that property.

H

The department of elementary and secondary education and the missouri school board has regulations that require a mandate along with state law that any new public school built in missouri must have 15 acres as a minimum.

H

Public school public schools are exempt from zoning regulations and that in the uh that's in our constitution, that clearly was brought out in the wensville issue with the building of liberty high school, and they basically told the uh o'fallon planning and zoning commission that they couldn't build a road right in the middle of their property and that, if they didn't back off of mandating that they build the road at the school district expense that they would build the project without any building permits. And that was from their attorney and I totally concur.

H

The constitution does exempt public schools from any local zoning regulations. However, there are state regulations that do apply to all schools, and that includes the annual or biennial inspections of the state fire marshal's office.

H

We already talked about the sprinklers, that's very, concerning every school, whether I believe in st charles county, whether they're, public or private. I believe they all are mandated and they all do require. Even the older schools have sprinklers, it is mandated by state law and fire protection district ordinances.

H

There are inspections required by the numeli fire protection district, and the inspection must be required by the department of public health for all schools in missouri, I'm in favor of the staff's recommendation that a type 2 landscape buffer be required to offset the look from the adjoining residential development in all new public schools, uh starting as of last year.

H

Storm storm shelters are mandated to be built uh for all public schools and I'm not sure if that requires to for private schools like st dominic or which is a large catholic high school, but it definitely does the public schools, and I think there should be some type of storm shelter built in this situation.

H

We can never jeopardize the safety of children at any cost. In my opinion, the applicant is asking for 20 students. Staff wants 50. I don't know why. They said that I, like mrs bamer's compromise, let's limit it to 30 students that, wouldn't you know, include the staff members. I believe, there's three staff members, but 30 students for us for the conditional use permit- and the last thing that's very concerning is the water source. That's very major and, as somebody said in one of their emails testimony, it's a serious concern.

H

It came up in the bush issue. It's come up here. It needs to be addressed by somebody either staff or public water district number, two or somebody in the county- needs to take the bull by the horns and address this issue. Water is the number one requirement for human life. If you don't have water, you're not gonna, be able to do a lot of things and sustain yourself or your family.

H

Now this gentleman is going to tap into the same water source as the other residents. That's a really major concern and I think you can all sympathize and understand at least those of you, commissioners that live on a well.

H

It really needs to be addressed here. I hate to see it put by the side and let go it needs to be addressed by you. Those are my comments, mr chairman. If anybody has any questions, oh one other issue, I ask that we limit the soccer field uh to usage to 9 30 pm. I think that that's reasonable. I think that's a compromise among all sides.

H

11 o'clock that was asked by the applicant and I believe, approved by staff, is just it's not doable in a residential district and it's not it's not the right thing to do so.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak regarding um conditional use, permit 21-21, which is a private school, proposed to be located at 4180 benny road. Anyone else wishing to speak.

A

We will close a public hearing, ask the applicant to come back.

A

Okay, any questions for the applicant. I've got some.

E

Have you done any looking into the differences between conditional use and permissive use on particular zones.

S

I have not, and only because when I first went down this road, they kind of guided me to the special use permit. Quite honestly,.

E

I have um specifically because my children do attend a private school and the private school that my children attend is planning to move and find another place. So I've done some looking into this and you'll have to correct me. If I'm wrong, please do, but if this were zoned, residential or commercial, not c1, but um the light commercial. Is it c2, which.

G

Is what I started for.

E

So if it were zoned either of those a private school would be a permissive and not a conditional use. Is that correct.

R

I think so: yeah, okay.

E

So my question, I suppose, is you own this land and you also own the 25 acres around it, the 50 acres 50, and there are three homes currently on there.

S

Well, there's going to be there's no homes.

E

There's no homes currently, okay, so it's zoned agricultural, which means that you can have a home for every five acres, correct.

M

E

So, theoretically, it would be a permissive use at 50 acres to have 10 homes there, which.

S

Would have been my point for the water usage, because if I did it in 10 homes and each home had five people, that's 50 people there's nothing.

E

And let me clarify, you said you have seven grandkids. Currently I do.

S

And they'll be eight yeah, okay,.

E

So you'll have eight grandkids: um do they all live or are they all going to live on this 50 acres? Yes, so they're already going to be living there using water. There.

S

Yes, they're going to walk to school so.

E

Okay, so there's not going to be any traffic initially until you.

S

E

People so there's not going to be any cars at all, so you don't even necessarily need a parking lot other than the fact that it's.

S

Regulated parking lot in there because I kept getting kickbacks from the commission and every time.

E

They were asking my engineer: recharges.

S

Me to redo stuff- and I really just wanted to get it over with, because it really.

V

S

Don't know if you guys have ever tried to do this, it's a very expensive process to try to get through this stuff. It's been, I it's very been very unexpected.

E

So let me tell you this: if, if you were to build, however, many houses for.

S

Your great buildings acres, if I chose and.

E

And they all were to live there right and they all were to come together at one of those houses, and one of your daughters or sons were to teach them and you didn't pay them. It was just free that would be considered a home school and you would need zero permission from anyone. I.

D

E

So at this point, the reason that you're needing permission is because you're wanting to bring other people in that are your employees, children, not just your own families, children, correct.

S

E

You're hiring an outside teacher yeah.

S

So because the structure that I'm building is bigger than the structure they told me, I was allowed to build on an agriculture. That's what they told me. Okay,.

E

And your maximum is 4 800.. That's what they told me.

S

Was 4800.? I was very surprised to hear 100 by 200 because I haven't they told me. I couldn't build a building like that.

E

That's awfully big building for 10 students or 20 students, yeah.

S

I know there's a lot of things going on inside there. So there's going to be a full kitchen, I mean.

E

Kids are going to learn to cook so you're, looking like montessori typing, live life right, sure, okay, so you're, looking at more of like rather than a typical school building. Are you looking at more like, like a house.

S

So, like part of it is like a recreational area on the inside so like he said a tennis court. It's not. I mean it's going to be a tennis court.

D

S

Could be an indoor recreational area, you know somewhere, you could play dodge ball somewhere, you can shoot baskets somewhere, you can have recreation right um and then the rest of it. I'm sorry. I keep looking over there, but it's not. There then there's just like six school rooms, but I mean there's going to be an art room, there's going to be a music room, so it it's. I mean, there's rooms, it's probably overkill honestly, um but that's just the way I mean besides to buy buildings. They don't cost that much more to go.

S

This way sure they cost more to go this way, so it just made sense to put extra space in there. Okay,.

E

Can I ask so you're going to start out with seven kids? That's.

S

E

Okay, at what point are you looking to expand to more children? Well,.

S

My uh my general manager from tennessee is moving back next year. He's got two kids. I know he won't be somebody who complains about the way we're getting it started. So the truth is, I just want to get it off the ground where we have it running smoothly, so that when kids come there and even though they're going to be my employees, I don't want them to be disgruntled employees. I want them to be happy employees, so I want to be. I want to know what we're doing when we bring their kids sure.

E

So, logistical question: why specifically, did you not want to enter off of freedom ranch road? If you only are going to have three houses on that road? It's all your land! Why would you not enter there? Why are.

S

You wanting to interrupt so this is a not-for-profit I'm donating the land and I'm donating.

D

S

The money to build the schools, so, okay, you know in 25 years. I might not want to run this school anymore or 20 years. I don't know I might not be there. So I mean.

E

And you don't want it to enter off of the road, then correct.

S

Okay, so, and that's why I did a so, it could be that its own entity, okay,.

E

So it doesn't have to have an easement for.

S

E

On your other land, okay, that makes sense and.

S

I do- and I just I do want to read points I heard the water thing a lot like. I live two miles down the road. Okay, I have a well we water, the might all my neighbors have walls they water their lawn. I mean I watch them. You know it's uh the impact. If I would build 10 houses in there would be far far greater than bringing in little kids and it's not five-year-olds they're, going to be playing on soccer fields until 10 o'clock at night. It's 14 year olds.

S

Guys I mean- and I think 9 30 10 o'clock is great. I think 11 I mean I don't see anybody out there until 11 o'clock. By no means I think 9 30 would even be okay, um but it's not gonna be five-year-olds. Other I mean these. Kids are gonna grow they're, not always gonna be five years old. Your kids grow up right. So when they're 14 that's a little bit different story.

A

Okay, you know any.

I

Other questions for the applicant yeah there was uh one of the uh uh people mentioned. There was a second building that was uh shown on there. Well.

S

Not in that we we did away with the second building, so they'll. Never the proposals as the proposal is that that's the way that it will be.

I

Okay and uh let's see.

J

Was the second building intended for the school or for something else.

S

um Well, I was gonna build an indoor soccer field there, but it's not really that necessary, we'll build an outdoor soccer field and put some turf on it, which will also help you with your impact of your water.

S

But it's a hay field right now, so it doesn't need water to grow the grass there right now, so the bennies have been using that property for a bean field and a hay field, for I don't even know how many years larry kohler rents it from them he's still going to maintain it right now until we start building on it. So it's a big hay field right now,.

E

What are your thoughts about um digging a well that is in the the deeper aquifer? Is that significantly.

S

Well, if you go 1500 feet, you spend twice as much money. If you don't need to go to 1500 feet out there, that's silly. My wall is 650 feet. I don't need to go to 1500 feet to build a well, I mean, and it's just all it does is add additional costs and take away from educating children. That's that's the only thing I keep calling.

E

What kind of water would the kids be using? I mean we're talking about drinking.

S

Fountains I'll have like four toilets in there and a water fountain. I I'm confused.

E

I mean if they stayed home, they would still be using that.

S

Water, if they were home that water as well and like I said 10 houses in there- would have real impact on water. I mean we're not going to sprinkle our whole 50 acres and if you brought five acre lots in, they would all dig individual wells and they would all they would all water their lawn. Like I said, I live down the road two miles in avondale on three acre lots there and we don't. You know we have wells out there.

S

So um I I just I don't see the water impact being anywhere near as a matter of fact, they should be lucky that I bought the 50 acres and somebody else didn't and develop 10 houses on there or wait even farther down the road and develop more houses on there. So I think, there's far more or less traffic impact for what I'm doing, there's way less water impact overall less impact altogether, because I could have developed the 50 acres and instead I decided to do this.

I

Is there something stated by covenant that the additional acreage will not be developed.

S

It's not, but if you really look at how we set it up, I mean the way where the houses are going to go, we're not setting them up for other people to come along and build so well.

I

As you mentioned, though, 25 years from now that's true yeah, but it could be so I mean I don't think I mean.

S

25 years they could have water out there and they could have sewers out there. If just so, you know, I live on double d. Okay, double d is just about like benny road right, you guys drive down double d, but they built a brand new middle school down there 12 years ago, so they weren't too concerned about the school, and I mean they've got buses and kids everywhere. I'm not talking about anything like that. So as far as the danger of the road, well, they built the school off a double d.

S

Now I think summers is a safer road where they built the high school and they built the other school. But as far as that school on double d trust me it's on top of the hill. You guys ever drive there. It's not good. I drive by it. Every day I mean you come to the top of the hill and they're turning out, so I mean they built a big public school off a double d, which is one of the, in my opinion, most dangerous roads out there.

S

It has far more traffic than benny road and it's a far more dangerous road than the road I'm on which.

I

Is one other reason that could be, but we're really discussing this property.

S

Now I understand, but just in reference when you look at what's going on, I mean to see: what's happened, I mean I'm listening to the arguments and I'm looking at what's been done, going look they've done this okay with far more traffic to that school than the school that I'm talking about.

A

Yeah, mr clearly, the other property, where the three homes are going to be built that but 25 years from now, if somebody wanted, they would have to come back to the planning and zoning yeah, because it's the way it's the way. It's.

O

If they wanted to do anything else with his building, they'd have to come back. Let's.

A

O

Another conditional permit so.

F

O

For those in the office he can't build. This say this is what he wanted and then boom turn it over to be something else. Without somebody coming back.

S

Which is not my intent for sure.

J

So the indoor, tennis and everything else on the floor plan is that's just for the school. That's not any intention on leasing that out and.

S

No intentions on leasing, anything okay.

J

Not a recreational use on top of the school, no for okay,.

O

Would he have to come back uh to if he wanted to rent the area that the school building out for tennis, lessons or permits, or if he wanted to start leasing the soccer field to bring in 16 teams on the weekend to to do something? Does he have to come back for additional permissions for those.

R

Well, commercial, indoor, recreation, commercial, outdoor recreation, those are their own use categories for conditional use permits. So if, if those uses were proposed in addition to a school, then yeah they would require.

R

I can't say that if someone occasionally used the facility, if, like the kids, wanted to play another team of homeschoolers.

O

R

Something I I wouldn't come out there with a.

M

O

Zoning violation orders right right, but I think there's some concern from other people. That is there going to be soccer games every night of the week and 50 additional.

R

Cars coming into the school every day, yeah that would require additional approvals.

A

Barely have enough for a team.

R

Yeah, can I address a little bit the some of the questions about land use categories.

R

When this proposal first came to county staff, we talked about a variety of of the avenues that that this project could pursue. One of those was rezoning to a neighborhood commercial district where it'll be allowed by wright. The the downside of that is. The master plan calls for future agricultural uses in this area and so going forward to the planning and zoning commission and to the county council that will be up against the master plan's recommendation for agricultural, and if this property was rezoned commercial, then things like banks would be allowed by right.

R

Convenience stores would be allowed by right and some of those other uses. So our suggestion was that this would be a better avenue to pursue than that rezoning.

J

um Robert one quick question, so I know you you talked about the firewall issue and potentially I have to sprinkle that and was that from the building code from the building official looking into it. Did we have any research into the fire marshal's office and since they'll probably be involved with this? Is that something that's going to trigger it to be sprinkled, regardless of the firewall.

R

That was a comment by the building code enforcement division director that one or the other could be used, and that was his uh preliminary take on the the concept that was presented so there's still a lot of details to work out, but we wanted to make the applicant aware that this is just something to think about when the building's being designed, because uh we don't want to catch people unaware later in the process. If possible, we like predictability and, as I say, government, you don't want surprises.

R

No one wants surprises, the applicants, don't want surprises and we don't want them.

O

So there's no regulation by room for sprinklers, so if there's x amount of rooms in a in a building, there has to be a sprinkler system. My.

R

Understanding is, it depends on the area at 12, 000, usually.

S

I don't know I own buildings and no fountain 12 000 feet in o'fallon. If it's over 12 000 feet, when you build your building, you have to sprinkle your building unless you divide it by a firewall, um that's pretty pretty common in industrial buildings based.

J

On an occupant load, but I think my question is the fire marshal, which is separate, which is involved with schools looking into that and if that triggers something else cause. Usually it's my understanding. The building official requires if it needs to be sprinkled, and then fire says it's per these regulations, but schools kind of follow its own separate through the state fire. But I robert I might have that wrong. It's been a while, since I've seen that issue. Okay, so.

R

J

Just something to look into and I'm sure you guys are so.

A

Any other questions for the.

R

Applicant or staff.

A

Robert, you have more.

R

uh No uh was there any other questions, jennifer.

I

So there will not be a sprinkler system. I guess is that correct.

R

My understanding that he can they could either they could do either or they could put a sprinkler system or they could put in firewalls to divide up the area. Okay, neither uh oh one other comment: real quick. You you mentioned about the large building that again goes back back to the uses, the use categories.

R

So in the use category of a personal storage building, you can have x number size building or if you have an agricultural storage building, it can be a why size. But what we're talking about here is a private school and it's there's different limitations on accessory storage buildings than there are for other buildings.

A

M

So why did you propose 18 parking spots for this spot.

S

Well because I think the first time they told me there wasn't enough- and I was like here just and then.

M

He came back yeah and.

S

Then and then, when uh uh uh what am I trying to say, my engineer came back the way he my archetype came back then he had it all across the front of the building, and I was like well gosh. That's a lot of money to buy parking spots. Why don't we just improvise and do half of that and we'll make everybody happy. So look I'm not really trying to put in more parking spots than I have to, but I mean I don't think 18 parking spots was too.

S

I mean it makes sense to do at least half the building. I think it might look silly to be quite honest with you. So I mean.

R

We just state the minimum and it's got to meet that minimum requirement and that's it.

M

Then so would you be comfortable with less student recommendations.

Q

S

Like I said, I think that the reduced hours are, for sure, are great, I mean, are a good idea. Eight of the students live in the subdivision, so at least give me the eight plus those because I mean yeah. I know I can tell you this. I I can already see what's gonna happen, the school is gonna, be amazing.

S

The people that work for me are all gonna want their kids to come here, and I can see that so I mean I get that, but once again I mean I just I don't see what that impact. When you look at those roads and I come down double d, I come down to benny road. I just if there was 30 students. Even if I mean you have to understand you're talking about kids, that they have brothers and sisters, it's not 30. Individual people dropping off their kids. The people that work.

S

For me, you know my average age. Employee is 28 years old right. My kids have four these kids that are there they're working for me they have two and three kids. So as soon as you take on one family, you know you're not usually signing up one kid here. I don't know how many kids do you have homeschooling right, six.

D

S

So I mean that's, that's almost I might know if I could take six, but so I guess that's really where the point comes. In I mean if you had 20 students- and you know you had another another employee that wanted to cover- they had another kid. You know I mean it was coming of age. I mean I, I could see those. I think that 30 is a is a fair limit um and I'm only saying that, because I'm not trying to cause myself major aggravation in the future, neither once again how this all started is.

S

My daughter pays a lot of money for her kids to go to school. My son pays a lot of money. My employees were missing work, so I was like hey. Let's, let's create something that we can buy continuous education and keep continuity. That's how we I.

M

Pay a lot for my grandkids to go.

S

I know it's crazy right. Well, I guess I'm about to right, but uh I'm about to pay a lot for my grandkids to go to school.

O

Would you be okay with the hours of 7am to 9pm.

S

Yeah, I I see you know and really 7am is early, I mean so yeah. I don't see any problems with that at all yeah 7am. I guess I don't know if I'll be at school at 7am, but.

J

So, robert, if, if we did 30 and he decides he wants to go up to 40 in the future, he has to come back before this commission mm-hmm on that condition.

A

J

Yeah now we'll have a history to know some of the concerns right. That's true.

F

I mean if we look at, I mean if you look at the department of education, they say there's about what eight to ten students per every teacher. So if you got three teachers you're within that 24 to 30, so I think 30 is reasonable, based upon um class size limits that they have for public educational students right. I agree.

S

And I think public schools are more 20 to 22 students as opposed to 10 to 12, but that's an all. The great reason why maybe to have a pop presence.

F

We had a pair, I mean there's a lot of things in there.

S

So it's up to 25.

F

But you got to have a pair in there so.

A

S

F

A lot of other things in there, so I totally understand yep.

M

I'm going to bring up another condition we might want to consider is no dump trucks or recreational vehicles. Motorcycles atvs parked on the premises, something along those lines, I'm just not sure of.

O

The school itself.

S

There's a storage unit and I mean well, you don't see the building, but.

M

Yeah, but we've seen this before, where people we don't put these conditions on and then they just do whatever they want on the property and.

S

Yeah so much for my place, looking junkie and I do on the 45 acres right behind it. Yeah.

M

But if we don't put those conditions on sure it happens, so I'm curious what the commission.

J

I'd be fine with that. I'm fine with that and adding you know construction vehicles as long as it's not construction vehicles or working. You know on the site to prepare it.

E

The only the only question I would have is to to specify that, because he did say that he owns a construction business. So if his employees are dropping their kids off.

S

It's a very, and I have five acres in onesville to park, work trucks. So we we do. We have plenty of room out there.

A

Any other questions of the applicant okay here we go. Thank you, sir. All.

S

Right. Thank you.

A

Okay, now the commission will consider uh cup 21-21, which is a conditional use, permit request at 4180 benny road before I'll entertain. A motion. Probably the best thing to do, is to for us to consider the recommendations that have been made by staff.

A

uh The first recommendation is the maximum number of students enrolled at any one time shall be 50.

O

Can we please change that to 30. I'd like to.

A

O

Make a motion to make that 30., okay,.

A

O

A

O

A

All those in favor sinai, okay, uh I type 2 landscape buffer, conforming to requirements of section 405.435 of the the county code should be installed along the eastern and southern property lines to the extent depicted in the concept plan. Any issues with that recommendation, no except uh no school functions so take place outdoors between the hours of 11 pm and 6 a.m. Okay, so that's it's written sort of right, but uh remember we're talking about night time.

O

Recommendation of 9 p.m and 7 a.m: okay,.

A

There's been a motion in a second that uh the third.

A

Recommendation would be that no school function shall take place outdoors between the hours of 9 00 p.m in the evening and 7 a.m. In the morning. Is that correct, correct all in favor sinai all right?

A

uh No lighting of the athletic field shall take place between the allow hours of 11 pm and 6 a.m.

O

Can I make a motion please to change that to the same matching hours of 9, 00, pm and 7 a.m?.

A

Second, second, just motion and a second discussion, any questions all in favor of recommendation number, four, uh the hours being 9, 00 p.m and 7 a.m. All in favor sinai uh all parking shall take place in the parking areas as designated in the approved site plan.

O

N

To add so, I think we're going to say the same thing. I think this could be where you would then add in and no long-term parking or no, you know something along those lines here when it's talking about the parking stuff.

O

About your commercial vehicles, your farm vehicles, your atvs, broken down vehicles that kind of stuff farm equipment.

M

Well, I think that just should be no vehicles should be parked in that in those parking lots after certain hours either um you shouldn't just be.

E

Overnight parking right, it shouldn't.

M

Be an overnight parking, so I mean we should limit the hours of parking unless it's emergency or something, but also there shouldn't be any vehicles that are not really related. To the I mean, I guess, if he's gonna he's, gonna have storage, so all that could be parked into storage any any lawn mowers, so we should regulate it that all for any equipment, that's used for maintenance of the facility has to be parked indoors.

M

I think that's, probably the best thing to do. You can leave the parking probably the way it is and just have a condition that any vehicles that are used for maintenance of the facility um have to be parked indoors in a storage facility. We.

A

Can make that number? Nine yeah, okay, okay, so with just uh regarding the parking uh area, um so that would uh parking shall take place in parking areas as designated in the improved site plan. So any.

F

A

With that now, okay, all exterior lighting that exceeds one foot candle shall utilize full cut off of light fixtures to prevent light to impact surrounding properties.

A

That's a county county standard, correct.

R

That's been a consistent standard recognition use permits in the last couple of years. Okay,.

A

Number seven: a site plan, in conformance with the concept plan attached as part of exhibit b, shall be submitted to and approved by saint charles county community development department. Prior to the conditional use permit becoming active, that's a standard, no conditions, no conditional use shall be in active use until such time all conditions of approval have been met.

A

That's standard and robert: don't we typically add that this will uh expire in two years yeah if.

R

Not that's now in the ordinance as a standing ordinance requirement. Okay, and it says that it'll automatically expire within two years. If the use is not active and in use it's not that the building is under construction or is built, the use has to be active.

A

I

There was one other question I meant to ask for a desk, so this is a relatively flat piece of ground. What about the drainage is? How is that being addressed?.

R

That will be addressed at the site plan stage, which will be the next step for the applicant. Should they be successful with the concept plan, they've got five acres, so I'm thinking they're going to have enough room on the western portion somewhere or potentially along the southern portion in the setback area. For.

E

R

Retention, yeah detention.

A

uh And then we'll add a recommendation: number nine, which says that all.

O

Maintenance, farm and construction vehicles will be.

A

Well, this would this would be.

O

Regards to to this building.

A

That okay, counselor yeah.

C

We're trying to say that all maintenance, we're saying construction, recreational vehicles be stored indoors right, no overnight parking outdoors correct as well.

M

And no vehicles parked outside for parking in for the facility. We should have some hours on that too, because if they're having a night they're there at nine, they shouldn't have overnight parking unless someone's been drinking and can't drive, I guess that would be, but for temporary use. You know there shouldn't.

W

Be anything I'm doing that at a school.

I

I forgot that also uh is that soccer field going to be sodded.

M

It's going to be dirt, yeah.

I

Soccer player you'd wanted to be me as.

S

They get older if they get better. I mean.

E

That would make sense.

M

R

A conditional use permit for a lawn care service that has a standing requirement that any related equipment or vehicles are required to be stored within accessory structure.

R

Now in terms of the parking you might refer to passenger vehicles versus other vehicles, like, I think.

O

Could you put language in there as it is a passenger vehicle owned and maintained by the school itself, could could could be allowed to be parked overnight? Can you get that specific as.

AA

O

Just everybody wanting to park there for a party.

C

So we could do no if we were saying like no parking overnight or no overnight parking, with the exception of.

O

C

Any passenger vehicles being made are operated owned by the school yep.

M

Okay, roger you're, an attorney. What how do we do this.

C

To amend with those to have the condition.

A

Okay, so so number nine is just we're only going to address the parking as opposed to lawn mowers and tractors, and we're not addressing that.

M

So all parking shall take place in parking areas as designated in the approved site plan number five could be um and the no. I can't do that either.

O

I think you could add nine and ten, so you could add nine being that vehicle, no overnight parking, except for a vehicle, that's owned by the school and ten could.

C

Be two separate ones.

A

A passenger vehicle.

O

Maintenance, stuff or county ordinance for lawn care companies.

A

So number nine would be no overnight parking. Well now, let's back up, we need to define overnight. uh Oh we have that issue in whitmore.

C

Didn't know parking of vehicles between the hours of similar hours, nine pm.

A

And seven a.m: with the yeah no parking of vehicles between the hours of uh 11, 59 p.m. To.

A

Er, well, we need to get to early uh 6 pm or.

D

A

Yeah, except for uh passenger vehicles, owned and operated uh by the school yeah. Okay, that takes care of that uh um any and all uh maintenance, uh indoor and or outdoor maintenance equipment um of the school uh shall be stored indoors.

C

In the accessory structure.

M

Yeah in the accessory structure.

C

Oh, there are no accessories you're indoors, then, okay,.

O

That'll be nine and then ten okay.

U

A

Okay, so any questions.

N

A

N

Guess I just have one more question, not necessarily on the recommendations, but as far as the master plan goes, does this fit inside of the master plan for having a school, I mean, I I'm still nervous about everything that we've talked about right and being familiar with the area and discussing.

N

What really is this area supposed to be? This applicant seems like it's going to be a small operation, but when he sells what are the future plans? I know they got to come back here, but that's why we put the master plan together and just didn't know what the master plan was for this area.

R

Master plan recommends future. Can you hear me? Okay, master plan future recommends future agricultural uses. Now, I would say, in the master plan recognizes that in areas that are designated for either agricultural, for instance, or residential, for instance, that includes some complementary uses, such as schools, recreational facilities, parks, things like that that are complementary to the primary uses, so it it is within the master plan, I would say, except it's conditional use permit, so it depends on how it's done. You know and that's what this is all about. Looking at on a case-by-case basis.

R

How is it proposed and what are the impacts of neighbors.

N

Yeah, I just it's going to impact neighbors right, it's going to attack traffic, it's it's and I'm not saying it's going to happen in three years, not saying it's going to happen in five years, but I think this is the the planing stage that yeah we mentioned new melee sports and wreck right down the road 10 years ago. It was nothing and now they're renting fields every other night right. um You know you give an inch and things happen, especially in that area and next thing you know they're back three times and it's a mile.

N

So I just think we need to consider that, because this is driving down that road on a daily basis. This is not a road that I picture, and I know many of the constituents out there that I've talked to in the past two weeks, consider even a small school to be on this very narrow, two-lane road next to a 90 degree corner with no thought of some of the other things like lighting like the well all this kind of stuff.

N

You know we've heard from two or three people on letters, but there's quite a bit of other rumblings, going on out there that I think that maybe we need to consider those two.

E

Have a quick question: um this comes up a lot. We talk about traffic studies and and traffic and different roads a lot in here- um and I guess my question is just how do roads get improved?

E

I mean I feel like in general, a road doesn't get widened or or made straight or improved unless there's a need for it. Correct.

N

E

So it sounds to me like: maybe this road needs some work, because saint charles county is definitely growing in general. Now I'm not discussing this particular private school, I'm just.

AB

E

General, you know st charles county is growing. If we have these roads that are unsafe, you know, maybe that's what we need to focus on and not on keeping people from using land. That is clearly people want to use in some way. You know as long as it's an appropriate use. Do we.

O

Know if there's a plan for an expansion in this area or anything like that from the.

A

Highway department, the county road board.

R

A

R

Which is part of the master plan designate which is roads will be, are to be widened substantially. It doesn't really address minor, widening such as adding shoulders things like that, but it really addresses, uh for instance, highway in. We know that's going to go from two lanes to four lanes, plus a turn lane, so that's shown in the in the third fair plan, so uh mark is just full of pulled up. The third fare plan for this area and they're not showing uh a major widening for for benny road.

R

If there had been, we would have accounted for that in the setbacks for the concept plan, because we don't, we would hate for a future road widening to take out the parking lot or part of the facility.

A

Any other questions any other questions hearing none. The chair will entertain a motion to approve to approve cup 21-21, which is a conditional use, permit request located at 41 880 benny road.

A

The conditional use request is for the operation of a private school on a five acre parcel of ground on the south side of benny road, a half mile east of highway d and the conditional use is subject to the recommendations proposed by staff as amended and recommendation 9 and 10, as added by the commission.

A

Any questions regarding.

M

The motion did we vote on those adding those two conditions.

O

Yes, we did oh nothing, but last due we did not.

M

No, we didn't vote to add those okay.

A

We'll we'll vote on the condition: nine, which is uh no parking uh between the hours of 11, 59 and p.m, and 6 a.m, except for a vehicle owned by the school. Is there a motion motion for a second? Second, all those in favor, sign, aye, aye and intend was that all maintenance uh equipment, um owned and operated by the school must be stored uh in an accessory building.

A

Indoor accessory building.

O

A

That passes okay. So let me back.

D

A

The chair entertains a motion to approve cup uh 21-21, which is a conditional use, permit request for a private school located on five five acres of ground on the south side of benny road, a half mile east of highway d. The conditional use permit request is subject to the recommendations proposed by staff, as amended uh by the commission and with the addition of conditions, nine and ten.

A

So that is our motion.

O

Motion second,.

A

There's a second uh motion by miss bamer second by miss barr okay motion has been made and seconded mr cleary. How do you vote.

I

A

uh Mr frohm, yes, mr cordwell.

J

G

A

F

A

Yes, uh miss barf.

E

A

uh Miss bamer, yes, mr shell, no and I vote yes, application passes.

M

Does this go before planning before county council? What's the date on that april, the 11th so for the people that want to that, you can go before the county council and uh ask for recommendations on that two changes. So you have another opportunity to speak on it. Probably is it just one or two yeah.

A

County, this will be on the county council agenda for april monday april. The 11th.

A

Okay, now, let's now I'll just do okay.

A

The next item on our agenda is rezoning request on fry mute row. The application number is rz 22-02, the property owner is steepleview farm llc. The applicant is, is k. Andrew weber authorized agent. The developer is michael mcminimi.

A

uh The engineers bax engineering company, the current zoning is a agricultural 5, acre minimum lot size requested. Zoning is our single family residential district 3 acre minimum lot size. The 2030 master plan recommends rural residential uses.

A

The rezoning area is 71.61 acres, the parcel size is 390.22 acres, including both tracks located the locations on the west side of frymuth road, approximately 3650 feet north of highway p near the cities of saint paul and joseph phil, located in council district one staff. Okay,.

B

So uh this resorting request is actually inclusive of two separate parcels, um there's a large main parcel and then there's a sliver parcel uh that we have. uh If you can show the map real, quick, um there's this parcel here.

B

Let me move that out of the way we have this parcel here and then the larger parcel here uh this rezoning request is going to be up in the northeast corner of the property. uh 71 acres, like you, said, um for rezoning the property they're looking to rezone to rural residential, which would allow for three acre minimum lot sizes uh there are. uh We did receive one written protest, uh one letter of concern and five letters of opposition and one letter of support.

A

Any questions for our staff.

A

Hearing none we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

A

Do you solve this, where I affirm that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. I.

AC

A

Please state your name and address for the record good.

AC

Evening, jeff simmons with max engineering, 221 point west boulevard, st charles go ahead, sir. I'm here tonight on behalf of the developer, michael mcmenomy, as staff mentioned, we are looking to rezone just a portion of the 390 acres that the family owns we're looking to rezone 71.6 to the rural residential.

AC

This is consistent with the future land use plan, 20 of 2030, which seems like a long time away, but it's only eight years away.

AC

The project is consistent with the surrounding properties to the north and the south. Both contain three acre lots.

AC

We, I know some of the concerns are about septic that I read today. We do have dnr approval. Dnr requires the minimum size for the lots in this area to be 1.2 acres. Obviously, we're not proposing lots that small. We will be a minimum of three acres, so we're all within that the future land use looks at less than one unit per acre, we're going to be at 0.33 units per acre. Given the three acre minimum the developer plans on building custom homes. He does not have a builder at this point.

AC

He's anticipating the lot sales would be around 150 000, each with homes, obviously to match that one of the concerns brought up earlier on a different project was transportation, so the county does have a thoroughfare plan framework road is part of that thoroughfare plan.

AC

Eventually, I guess way out. It's anticipated to be five lanes with 100 foot right away. Obviously I don't think that's going to happen right away, but uh as far as our project goes, we will be donating land to bring the width of the right-of-way on our side of the road from the center line to our property edge to 50 feet in anticipation of that future development.

AC

At this point, that's really all I have and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

A

Questions for the applicant.

A

Hearing. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

A

We will now open the public hearing for rz 22-02, which is a rezoning request on or near firemouse road. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

A

Do you solemnly swear our affirmative you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceeds from the pains and penalties of perjury? Yes,.

AD

A

Please state your name and address for the record. My.

AD

Name is jim harriston. I live at 135, kerstein farms drive low, falling missouri, 63366.

A

Go ahead, mr harrison.

AD

uh Would it be possible to put the map back up the uh the one where they showed where the subdivision was going to be put.

AD

The reason I'm.

B

AD

For is my property borders, the southern edge of that property, so the street down at the bottom, there kerstein farms. So when I received the letter, I assumed that they were going to build all whatever acreage it is. Several hundred acres is going to be turned into a subdivision.

AD

So uh now that I see the map it's a little bit different, but I the two concerns I have is currently within six miles of my house. There are three subdivisions that are about the same property size, the same kind of situation. They haven't, sold a single lot to my understanding.

AD

There's a plot of the section of land across from the uh st joseph church. That's been that has hasn't sold a piece there's a section of land with three acre lots that are down on kerstein road and then I'm not real familiar with the streets of the mcdonald's that comes up from behind on the north of mcdonald's. They just turn that into a subdivision or they're going to be turning it to my understanding.

AD

Those three areas have not sold a single lot, so now we're turning agricultural land, which was used for crops or pasture whatever, and it sits it's just going to sit there. My second concern is the back side of my property. Is this property here on the southern edge? In the last couple of years, the farmer has flattened out the creek. There was a creek that runs between my property and next door, he's flattened that out and he put a berm up well, the last two years my septic tank is flooded.

AD

We've had heavy rains, so I'm worried about rain water wash. You know coming down if you take and put property up here and you take 30 of the land and turn it into a land that can't soak up the water. Where is it going to go? So my concern is the water issue.

AD

A

I

So what size uh anchorage is your property. I.

AD

Have three acres.

I

Okay, so you're you're concerned more about the drainage, not about the size of the box. Correct.

F

A

Anyone else wishing to speak.

A

You saw me swear our friends, you tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Please state your name and address for the record.

AE

Georgia hunt I live at 1854 highway y, which is at the corner of fremont and highway y.

A

Okay, go ahead.

AE

Thank you. um I would agree with the gentleman um fremouth and highway y floods continuously based on the leveling of that ground and usually, if there's a hard rain, you can't get through that passage. It's a two-lane highway. I live on five acres, which is the standard for saint paul.

AE

I've been here many times before, where we have reduced the land, reduce the land and reduce the land, we're going to start with three acres sure I doubt that they're going to come back and they're going to rezone the rest of it and they're going to want one house per acre and then they're going to want four houses per acre. We've seen it with riverdale we've seen it with all the other parcels um and, as you can see, it's it's a light group today and the reason for that is everyone.

AE

I asked to come to this committee and say: can you go talk to the board with me? They said: there's no use doesn't matter, they're winning you're wasting your time no one's listening. They are going to continue to move into this area and reduce the ground until we look like o'fallon house after house at your house, people want to live in saint paul because we have five acre lots because there's farmland, I'm not against farmers selling their land, but they need to keep the five acre restriction.

AE

That's what makes saint paul special I get to ask every week. You want to sell your five acres. I have a riverdale, you want to anyone, selling five acres. I want to get out of riverdale it's congested, it's it's over populated and we have multiple parcels for sale in st paul and I'm not asking you just to consider this one to look at the entire footprint of st paul. What is that going to do? We have one elementary school. We have a private school.

AE

We have one high school, we are busting at the seams with riverdale. We traffic you can't get out on 79. framework is a two-lane road going to another two-lane highway with with no stop signs and it's dangerous. Putting more people in that town that infrastructure is going to collapse because what's happening is all the original individuals that live in saint paul as more houses move in value and you make smaller houses.

AE

I don't even know I mean. I just think that we go against this. They put a restriction out there. They say they're going to do something, and you know- and we talk about the wells. We talk about the septic tank, we're using these reasons to plead our cases. The guy before me plead that wells, 10 wells on 50 acres that would destroy everybody's wells, we're all on wells. You put another 30, 40 50 houses on that property.

AE

All of our wells are going to get impacted, they're going to be at the same depth of my vein. We already have issues in flatwoods with all the subdivisions that went down there. People have bad water, they got sulfur coming in their water's, yellow and that's because houses are coming in and they're tapping into the same veins, inseptics all them drain fields, 25 houses. Nobody wants to live next. To that. That's nobody wants drain fields going through every single house in a three acre property.

AE

Just asking to consider holistically look at the entire town. Look at every parcel, that's coming across your plate and consider what it's doing to us because piece by piece we're getting destroyed.

A

AE

A

Anyone else wishing to speak.

A

Do you solemnly swear our affirmative tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings or the pains and penalties of perjury. Please state your name and address for the record.

U

Tammy slayton 3209 noelle lane o'fallon missouri six, three, three, six six go.

A

Ahead and spike.

U

um I have three concerns for for adding uh these three acre parcels. um Has there been a study of the impact to the impact to the water well water table in the wells?

U

They've added three new houses recently in the last three three or four year years in our area and a neighbor has recently had to have his well dug deeper. So I am concerned also with the water table and the wells.

U

I wasn't sure where the entrances were if they were on fremont, road or eisenbath, because the back corner of this touches eisenbath. There is another parcel of 115 acres on eisenbath that recently got sold and I'm concerned about the traffic. That's going to come down, eisenbath that the the property on eisenbath.

U

The development is also going to go down free myth road, so you've got 115 acres that are going to be developed in this 390 acres, so you're going to have a lot of traffic coming down there and it's no, no lights, no street lights, two-lane county road with with no shoulders, so we're adding a lot of a lot more traffic, and my last concern is um at the the intersection of highway, p and freemath road, where all these houses are going to be coming.

U

There is two blind spots there on fremont headed south before you get to highway p, there's a real, sharp top hill press there with a stop sign at highway p, and I can't count how many times people have come over that hill crest and ran through the stop sign, not knowing it's there. So I think we need an improvement of some sort at that intersection.

U

So that's all I have thank.

A

U

A

Anyone else wishing to speak.

Z

Good evening my name is.

A

You saw me swear. Our affirmative will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth and these proceeds from the pains and penalties of perjury. I.

Z

Do please state your name and address for the record raymond. Gerard 142 kirsting farms drive uh several comments uh for the members of the commission. uh First, uh the entire parcel is 390 acres. If the existing zoning was kept at five acres, it would still allow a large number of lots.

Z

um So for that, from that perspective, I don't believe the rezoning is required. Second, um if the decision is to proceed, then I agree with the comments that have been made earlier, um and I would think that this matter should be continued until in fact, a water, a water study, was done and submitted.

Z

Third and then my final comment is this: that if this is allowed to proceed and as the rezoning is a legislative decision which is at your discretion, I would suggest that at a minimum, the condition ought to be attached to any rezoning that they would be required. The developer required to be put put in some type of a legislative buffer around the outer perimeters of the entire 380 90 acre parcel, um and that that should be part of any uh final plot approval.

Z

Any uh a plan that shows the legislative, legislative buffer should be part of any um final flat approval, and uh I thank you for your time. Thank you.

A

Anyone else wishing to speak regarding this application.

A

Do you swear? Our affirmation will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the troops and these proceeds from the pace and penalties of perjury. I do please state your name and address for the record. My.

AA

Name is bradley tom 101 kerstine farms drive okay,.

Z

AA

Three: three: six, six, um so uh two, two three two things uh the first one is. I agree with the comments about uh the five acre lots. I think it's important that I think the lady said before understanding the footprint of st paul is important and understanding the integrity of what it means to be in the country is really important.

AA

There are some three acre lots in the area there are there's not many though so the the normal footprint is is five or five digit lots, and I would certainly um ask you all to to consider that the other one is also what what someone said is I'm. I just need to seek to understand the entrances of this subdivision, so I understand it to be entrepreneurs, but there is a entry point.

AA

That's on eisenbath at the south west corner of the 390 parcel uh that the entrance is already there, uh and what, through a recent survey that I had completed, it's three-fourths on my property, so I have that issue of its en encroaching upon my property. The second issue with that, though, is it's a bad bad spot for the an entrance to a subdivision just by way of the curvature of that road um and two, I would just say these: are these are country roads, so it feels as though going back to my first point.

AA

This is a bit of profit over common sense, as it relates to trying to shove as many houses and this and this parcel, as this builder can.

A

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Anyone else watching to speak.

A

Do you saw me, swear furniture, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth, means proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Please state your name and address for the record.

AF

I'm tina talbot and we live at 3145 noel lane. O'fallon.

AG

63366, so I grew up in saint charles county. I've lived in this county for 30 plus years, my husband and I as well as many families in the area we chose to move out of the city limits to the county for a rural type of living.

AG

We chose to move on to 10.9 acres, which is more than the five acre minimum in the county. We've watched the area grow, like many other people have already said, I'm at a pretty rapid rate. Several plots have been subdivided into smaller and smaller smaller lots. It changes the feel of the area and a lot of the things that have already been addressed, like septic systems and wells, is also a concern.

AG

um I know that we're only currently talking today about the 70 plus acres. I too, when I first read the letter, thought it was about the whole entire 390 acres until I started reading further in depth, but, um like it's been brought up, that there is a second entrance already made off of eisenbath. I think the the long-term plan for this whole lot. This whole plot is is much smaller lots on the entire 390 acres.

AG

If we're only talking about the 70 acres, I understand that's only 22 homes versus 14.

AG

and totally understand it's up to them on the five acre lot, I'm just really hoping we take into consideration, not reducing the acreage to three acres, because if we reduce it for this 70 acres, we can do it for the rest of the 390 acres and then, instead of talking about 78 homes, we're talking about 130 on that plot and that's just a huge difference.

AG

This location is between st paul and and josephville. So it's within the county, it's not in one of those types of town, so it would be nice to be able to preserve that five acre minimum in the area. Our overall goal is to preserve the area as well as the resale value of our own homes.

AG

um I don't plan on moving.

D

AG

Soon, but I certainly want to keep the property value in our land.

AG

Our overall hope for the area is also to preserve the area of whole property values and also the um the wildlife in the area there's a lot of wildlife in the area. We start reducing that area, putting a lot of homes in there and where is the wildlife going to be forced to go?

AG

I thank you very much for your time and I just kindly requested that you take our comments and concerns into your decision making for the plans of this property in the future and what's being proposed, and I just hope that you look at it as if it's could be by your house as well. I pass this property every day on the way home. It's very close. We live two addresses to the left of where this is being proposed, so it's something I'll see every day. Thank.

A

AG

A

A

You saw me swear our firmness. You'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

V

I am please state your name and address for the right, michael talbott, I'm tina's husband. We live at 3145 noel lane, which, if you put the other map up, we're right on the corner of eisenbath in the well, so we're basically directly category into this.

V

um Let me get my zone here, a couple things with this um everybody. I don't know how many of you guys are on wells. I've grew up out of highway p, my entire life. I've lived out of peace. Since I was kid my dad built our house by hand, I'm building our house by hand myself out of our place too. Okay, uh we've been on.

AH

V

We've had to redrill the welt, my parents house twice because of all the new development all that stuff. Okay, that's gonna, be a major development with putting even three acre lots in here, and this is only developing part of this, and I know they're gonna go for smaller lots too. I think it's pretty sad that they sent the engineer. They couldn't even bother the actual developer, to show up tonight, I'm familiar with the enemy family and best friends with one of their kids growing up this property that we're talking about these are country rule roads.

V

These are not designed to hold this level of traffic until they're improved, there's, no way you can be able to bring that amount of traffic in there it's supposed to be five acres. It needs to stay there.

V

The other thing I'll bring up is another thing too. Most of us that live within a thousand feet of this rezoning got the letter on it was mailed out on february 28th, that's the day. It's dated. We got that it requires 14 days to send a protest letter in which would have gave before today, two days to get it signed and notarized. That's sad and you all should know better than that. I'm not! Obviously you guys have anything to do with that, but this is coming at us extremely fast.

V

We know it's gonna get developed, probably, but it should be developed within the confines of the five acre minimum. It protects that the other thing too, is that whole watershed drains right through our property, which means all the runoff all of that's going on. As somebody else did, they just put a gate in at the corner of eisenbath right there in the bottom corner. The plant has developed the rest of this property. That's why we're here?

V

I don't know why we're not here rezoning the entire thing getting over and done with them one time, but instead we're going to go for smaller lots next time, which I'm pretty sure is what's probably going to try to happen. It needs to say five acres, that's what it's zoned at now and that's what it needs to remain at thanks.

A

Thank you. Anyone else.

A

You saw me swear from you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

H

A

Please state your name and address for the record. Thank.

H

You very much I'm members of the commission. My name is arnie c ac dinoff county public advocate p.o box, 1535 o'fallon. First of all, I'd like to address the gentleman's uh concern about the protest letter. Our county charter is very clear. The protest letter is in before the planning commission, but that goes before the county council protest. If there is, um I believe, I'm I think it's I'm not sure about the percentage. The percentage of homes that need to sign, I think, is at least 20 percent.

H

It might be 30., I have to check again, but that would require a mandate, a uh five out of seven council members to be in the affirmative, so that needs to be filed. uh I believe, and I'll have to check with mr myers the thursday or the friday before the county council meeting of april 11th. It has to be filed with brenda hinton and she is a county registrar she's on the fifth floor of the county administration, building just down the hill on 2nd street. So I'd really encourage the gentleman to submit that.

H

Petition with a brenda, hidden, the county, registrar, that's very important. The city of st paul has a zoning code and you can- and there are numerous subdivisions that have three lot minimum, so it's already being done in st paul. The fort zumwalt school district has a plan to purchase 15 to 30 acres.

H

This coming year, I've been to the meetings I've heard the discussions, there's a growing demand for public education, there's a need to build a new elementary school north of st paul and before lincoln county public water district 2, which I also attend their meetings.

H

The water commissioners have seen that this is a growing district in a growing region.

H

They have proposals to utilize riverdale and to enhance that capacity and are planning on building um main lines uh through highway p and also north of st paul to the lincoln county line, as a matter of fact, they're in discussions with lincoln county to take over some communities in lincoln county as part of the public supply water district number two.

H

uh In my opinion. After looking and revive and looking at this revised plan, this is responsible growth. Some of you sat on the comprehensive plan committee. It was done two years ago. I wish some of the other residents knew about that and it could have come and testified and been part of that process. But it was kind of a little bit secretive.

H

The county comprehensive plan calls for three acre lot: minimum north of highway uh n anything south of highway end it's uh some of its three to five acres and then I'm sorry, yeah three to five acres and then some of it is still going to be five acres and that's on the southern part of the county.

H

This density makes sense to me uh in the total calculation here and I would ask for approval of this subdivision.

H

I would ask that we get a definite uh plan or a dedication recorded for the proponent for the to put the frontage land up front, so we want to make sure the taxpayers are on the hook for any improvements to the roadway. We want to make sure that's recorded with the county recorder of deeds.

H

As you all know, this area is a growth district, uh there's a demand for rural living. I feel that this is responsible plan and I would ask for approval. Thank you.

Z

A

You saw me swear or affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

AI

A

Please state your name and address for the record ryan.

AI

Heider 3340 dean lane o'fallon uh just off there so good evening, I'm a saint charles county business owner. uh He used to be one of my usb, my landlord over here in cottleville and I'm riding smack dab in the middle of explosive growth, um but I'm also a burgeoning farmer and rancher right here and it's a little bit hard to tell, um because the screenshot has a neighborhood right below the neighborhood right above, but there's actually a significant amount of farm area right here. um But there are several our council person knows.

AI

There are several uh developments underway right here, like it's just changing extremely rapidly um in the you made a good point earlier about sure we change roads once we need to we improve roads once we need to, but in you know, in farming and ranching, we talk about uh stocking rate and stocking density, and that is what kind of field how many animals, how many head of animals can a field support over a certain amount of time with the rapid growth of change is happening with these developments all at literally the same time.

AI

The stocking density is, is right on the knife's edge. It's ready to tip over uh it's not that you can't grow over time and infrastructure expand, but it's it's such a rapid, sudden implementation of development and growth right here that the infrastructure just can't support it and as as one of the farmers here, that's that's farming.

AI

My concern is that you know we do have five acre lots and we do have three o'clock. Obviously we have a five acre minimum, but this is literally right from my understanding of the master plan. It's it's just off the agricultural zone. There's a yellow agricultural zone right there at flint hill. It's really close to that because of all the farming area.

AI

um If I'm reading that correctly- and I just think you know what what happens here when you continually push that stocking density of people- um not to put it too crassly, but you know right now, if I need to get a sea drill, I have to go to warren county and I can't go on the interstate side to take back roads and, as more and more of this happens, all the farmers leave, because you need help. You need equipment from each other. um You can't lease land anymore, so people are just leaving. I just think.

AI

Is there any? Is there like that happening so quickly? It's it's. Not it's not happening with with time to adjust and make plans, but these three neighborhoods right here they're just going in like all the literally the same time.

AI

I don't know if the lots are selling or not, but I just would like to to consider the rate the rate of growth- and this is just adding gasoline to the fire to say you know, of course they could develop it at five acres if they wanted to but sure let's not only develop it, but let's develop it faster and smaller, and just and just you know that that just seems like it's adding fire to the fuel to the fire.

AI

um I just wonder where we will maintain agricultural priorities in our county like where will we say we value we value ag? We value farmers, um it just feels like continually being being pressed on and pressed out. So that's what I wanted to say. Thank you. Thank.

A

You, sir anyone else wishing to speak regarding this application anyway,.

A

Hearing no one, we will ask the applicant to return.

A

Any questions for the applicant.

I

What's going to happen with the whole 390 acres.

AC

I don't know I spoke with the developer today. um He is looking he so he brought a portion of this land from a family member. They were splitting it. He wants to use this to recoup his investment and then at this point he doesn't really have any plans for it. um He might just leave it to his heirs.

F

A

Any other questions for the answer.

A

No ma'am public hearing's closed. I'm sorry other other.

M

Than you know doing the three acres and around it it's pretty much three acres. Isn't it correct.

AC

The they're around it subdivision to the north is three acres and the one south of the entire parcel is- and I, if I can mention also there was concern about fremont road. We are not going to have an entrance on fremont road from this 70-some acres.

AC

Sir, I'm sorry I misspoke on eyes and bath. It is I'm sorry it'll be on fremouth. It is not on eisenbath. I just spoke.

A

Any other questions.

J

Did you say you, you have gotten approval through dnr.

AC

We have, um they did a study and they would allow a 1.2 acre minimum.

AC

The county will not allow that and if correct me, if I'm wrong, but I believe septic in the county requires a three acre lot and therefore, without any other infrastructure in place, so in other words, sewer brought up here, we could never develop this in less than a three acre lot in the county.

AC

The remainder of the parcel, I should say.

I

Until water and sewer come there.

AC

I

So some future day you could potentially.

AC

And that, though, would not be consistent with the uh the master plan. At this point, it still recommends three three acre lots in this area.

A

Any other questions.

A

Okay, very new. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

A

Okay. We will bring uh this rz 22-02 the request for rezoning of the uh 71.6 acres, which is a parcel out of a larger 390.22 acres, which is a located on the west side of franklin's road. Approximately 3 650 feet north of highway p near the cities of saint paul and josephville comments. Questions of staff is.

O

There is there a um and the difference between three and five acres. I can't remember off the top of my head: is there a size of home difference? No okay, so you can build the same size home on a three primers the same.

O

I guess my big concern I have here is that we had five acres for a reason and if we continue to just keep doing exception and exception and exception, then we probably need to change it to three acres. So we don't have an issue, but for now I'm sort of you know. I have a problem with everything always being exceptions when you have a rule.

O

So for me that that is a big concern of I know development's going to come.

O

But I think it is responsible and having lived in this area for 50 years and had nine generations living off highway b, highway p, their knees, obviously to be freemeth road. You know all those areas are very there's accidents, people speed up and down, um so not that I'm not for growth. I think it just does have to be responsible and five acres is more responsible than three. In my opinion,.

A

O

A

Comments concerns yeah.

I

I I noted that the there are three acre lots around there, but those are smaller developments. We are talking realistically of up to 130 homes. Yes, this one plant has the smaller amount, but I think we are closing our eyes. If we only look at it and say: oh it's only this amount, it's 390 acres that I think we have to realistically consider. I think.

K

D

K

I

Is as trace was saying there for a reason, and I think, with the other win highest and best use demands. Development it'll be a gradual one rather than putting a big development out in the middle of a field. So that's my feeling, though,.

E

D

E

Plan recommend for this: isn't it um rural residential.

A

I

Which would be three.

E

I

Correct and that's in eight years, correct.

B

I

R

B

Yeah, the master plan provides guidance as to what what we should do um so yeah. I mean it's looking in at 20, 30 right.

I

This is 20 30 development could be at the point with anticipated growth that that might be the logical highest and best use. At that point,.

D

R

Can you hear me for reference this uh vanilla color is the rural residential recommendation, future land use and the green is future agricultural land use recommendation, except in the area where the green is that speckled dots mean that if there is a sanitary sewer service available, then there could be consideration for one acre lots.

O

Right- but that's not what's here now so.

R

O

To look and deal with what we have now and the impact the people that put right.

R

And you were asking what the master plan recommends and that's that's what it recommends if I can add one more thing: real, quick to address something that was said earlier, the date uh by which any um landowner protests or any municipal protests.

R

The deadline is actually april 25th. It has to be turned in before the county council votes on that rezoning case. That vote right now is set for april 25th.

R

So presuming that they vote on that date, it's got to be turned in before their vote. We ask is a courtesy that they be submitted before that monday, in other words the previous thursday, so we can go through them and we can advise the county council on whether or not it meets the protest requirement, but the drop dead deadline is by by the time they vote, which is set for april 25th.

R

E

You thank you. I have a comment.

R

I may have.

D

E

May have missed this. I feel like that. We've had a lot of comments about just kind of a general opposition to how quickly the area is growing, and I understand that um it does seem like saint charles county in general, and specifically this area is growing really quickly.

E

um I guess I may have missed whether there was anything that was specific to this plot of land other than I did hear that because it's a 309 acre because it's a larger plot there's some concerns that the the rest of it would also be developed in the future.

D

E

There anything, besides the fact that it's a large plot of land that that brings this out other than just other than just general concerns about the area, because I guess my concern is just that. If we're saying okay, the saint paul area is growing too quickly. Are we then going to just blanket say that we shouldn't do three acre lots at all in saint paul, because I just don't want to discriminate against one land over or.

D

E

Just because of the feeling of the day like is there something specific to this piece that says this piece shouldn't be developed, whereas other pieces should be or are we just saying in general that st paul is getting developed too fast.

O

I don't think it's any of those. I think it's it's a few things there. There is concerns and I can understand um land values and property values and that changing for current homeowners.

O

I think that the rule was in place for a reason, the five acres again, if that changes you know with regulations, then that changes with regulations, but right now that's what's in place, and I do agree with give an inch. Take a mile, often times happens and at some point in time there has to be. Growth is inevitable. It's ha it's going to happen when the sewer systems come in.

O

That may mean you know one house per whatever acre, but you have to also deal with the here and now too, and the possibilities of what could happen if we say three acres now and then another to the point of 100 and somewhat extra homes. I think it's looking at all of those things in the balance, both the future and the current, and what that, how that impacts, the people that live there. So that's how I feel.

E

O

Right now we're.

E

Looking at 70 acres, right, 730.

O

Acres, 71, acres, okay, correct, but we're looking, but you're also looking forward to the future and what may be asked the reality of both. You have to balance both.

A

I see ms barr's point in the last year if it is south of 4064 we've routinely rezoned, um but that shouldn't be any different than ground north of 70. correct.

E

That's to me, I think that's I'm just trying to figure out what makes this different than all of the other areas that we've I haven't.

O

Always voted yes for.

E

I guess I'm just saying: if the master plan is saying we we're going towards residential I'm trying to figure out what makes this particular area of land different than all of the other areas that the master plan is saying hey. This should be rural residential and we seem to be.

O

E

O

Think sometimes, when it's sometimes it's it's smaller lots like one family has 20 acres and they're splitting it. You know a certain way that makes maybe a little more sense, um but on something like on this. I just I voted no on other things.

E

Too so so it's specifically the fact that it's a portion of the 390 acres.

O

Not just a portion, no, I think that the five acre rule is there and has been. If, if we don't, if, if we keep doing all these exceptions, then we need to change the rule. Okay or you have a rule for a reason. If there was an external extension circumstance.

E

Five acres: are you just saying, because it happens to be zoned agricultural right now? Well,.

O

Right now it's for five acres right! That's the agricultural.

E

Is the five acres right, and so that's what they're requesting is that they're requesting it to be resolved? Yes,.

D

E

Okay, so they're asking to change from three to five: correct: okay, just just check it just.

A

Well, change change, not change.

D

The rule but change.

A

E

Correct right, I think so, and the change in the zoning does change the rule from five to three.

I

Yeah and some of the pro uh projects that were uh down along- and they also had water right along uh d and places like that, so they already had public water. There, too,.

D

I

Is this is individual wells, so that is a substantial difference.

E

Too, and that's what I'm trying to understand is what is the difference between all of.

I

These that would be re-zoning what we're.

N

E

And this particular piece of land.

N

I also think it's it's size right, I mean, even if we don't look at the 390 and taking that out of the picture, you're looking at you know, 14 homes versus 22 homes, so they're still going to get homes there. The road is still going to be more populated. The schools are still going to be more populated. The growth is still happening, we're controlling it.

N

The decision we're making now is, do we want 14 homes and have controlled growth, or do we want 22 homes and just have a little bit more growth right and I think that's what it comes down to and- and I think that I live in the rural area myself and I I'm for growth, but I'm for 14 homes, not 22. yeah, especially with the wells and the roads, and all the other concerns. We've talked about.

A

Any other questions comments.

A

Staff, robert, you have anything further okay. Well, the chair will entertain a motion to approve rz 22-02, which is the uh re-zoning of 71.61 acres of a 390.22 acre track located on the west side of friedman's road. Approximately 3 650 feet north of highway p near the cities of saint paul and joseph field, be rezoned from a agricultural to our single residential district, uh going from five acre minimum lot size to a three acre minimum lot size. Is there a motion.

O

J

A

Okay, the motion.

A

Made this second miss bar. How do you vote.

E

A

Mr clary, no, uh mr fromm, no, mr jackson, no, mr shell, no uh mr bamer, no.

A

um Mr cornwell.

J

A

And I vote: no, this application fails okay, now uh just so, we we will still have to consider the preliminary plat tonight on the agenda, because the county council may uh decide differently.

A

Okay, the next item on our agenda is a rezoning request: rz 22-03 property owners, adams, family residence, trust and alf, and alfred k, adams, the applicant developers on development engineers, bax engineering company. The current zoning is a agricultural five-acre minimum lot size. uh The requested zoning is our our single-family residential district. Three acre mm lot size, uh 2030 master plan recommends low density residential uses, one to four dwellings per acre.

A

The rezone resulting area is 38.27 acres. The location is 1150 feet. West of morgan, meadow drive on the south side of west highway, inn adjacent to the city of winsfield staff,.

R

You've covered the essence of what this case involves, but essentially uh the end in requesting the rezoning from agricultural to the our our single family, residential district. The difference in lots would be six or eight lots instead of six lots. So there is a small difference in the number of lots that could be developed um in them.

R

The master plan recommends uh low density residential one to four dwelling units per acre, and you may know that this section of highway inn is not that portion of highway in that is projected to be widened through modot's and the county's widening project.

R

Instead, the future path for highway inn is buck down, buckner road, so in other words, highway inc gets widened to highway z, and then you see that green line.

R

That's the future, uh the future route for highway inn, so this portion will still be open to stretch the highway in, should all this get built according to plans the section of highway and we're talking about that white line on the north is still going to be open, but this subdivision joining that on the south side of highway inn is not going to be fronting on that that busy four lane, plus a turn lane highway.

R

Let's see again, the master plan recommends low density, residential one to four dwellings per acre and the the requested zoning is conforming to the county's 2030 master plan and county staff recommends approval.

A

Any questions for staff.

A

I

You know the public utilities there.

R

Well, it has public water. I know because uh the the plant that we'll review in just a bit the windsfield fire protection district commented that the fire hydrants that they're proposing will meet the minimum 600 foot distance.

N

R

N

R

Also says it has.

N

Sewer from city of winston's service area would they have to be incorporated into onesville to get that.

R

Yes, typically, yes, yeah.

O

And once winsfield's opinion on this, have they given any opinion at all.

R

uh We have a letter from the winsfield fire protection district. I didn't see a letter in the file from the city of wentzville, because.

C

R

Boundaries are right across the street across our highway inn. They haven't annexed yet south of iowa in. If you want to put the I don't know if their annexation plans include that area south of highway. Yet I'm not sure.

A

Any additional questions for staff eric noble ask the applicant to come forward.

A

You saw me swear. Our firmament shall tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury yeah. I do please state your name and address for the record.

AJ

My name is charles wardle, I'm a civil engineer at bax engineering. My address is 221 point west boulevard, st charles missouri 63301, okay,.

A

AJ

This is actually a all right.

AJ

These houses that we're talking about rezoning is consistent with the 2030 master plan, one to four units per acre. It's also going to act as a buffer between the city of wentzville and st trolls county, because it is on the south side of highway inn.

AJ

We do have public water going to, but we currently do not have public sewers, so they are going to be individual septics on these.

I

B

Many lots again, eight.

AD

A

uh Questions for the applicant.

I

What uh I guess in terms of access there will be access on and but because robert was saying it's at that point: it's not in the main corridor of the widening area. So no.

AJ

Sir, we also all of that.

I

I mean the the piece of ground that recalls slopes fairly quickly away from and going south. Yes.

AJ

I

Will you do in terms of safety for access to the uh the subdivision two pattern? Oh.

AJ

We will have a two percent grade coming into the subdivision and going down to a higher grade as you get deeper in, but we also have a line of sight based on the speed of the speed of the road. I do believe the speed of the road for highway in is 50 miles right there and I want to say I don't know top my head.

AJ

I don't want to throw out numbers, but I want to say it's 300 to 300 feet right and 300 feet left that you have to have as you're sitting at the stop sign from the development to highway, and you that 300 feet lighting site right and there's a site left.

I

So the first part of it is you're accessing and it's just a two percent.

AJ

It's going to be a two percent downstream and how.

I

Far back does that go. Is that like 50 feet,.

AJ

That goes back 50 feet.

O

Are most of the homes in the area on five plus acres, though.

AJ

uh Most of homes in the area, the average the average lot size for the area is going to be 3.82 acres per home.

O

In your development, but what about surrounding areas aren't most of the homes? Five plus acres.

AJ

uh Most the homes around there aren't developed right now. There's some empty lots across highway. Inn is a smaller development. There are homes to the west that are between three and five acres.

O

Looking at most of these are all in the homes or all five plus acres for the most part. Just looking at the aerial view,.

O

Y

O

With that area.

O

And you're saying your average lot size is going to be what 3.82.

AJ

O

Okay, so um why not just the five acres and stay within that district, then the agricultural district?

O

Is it basically one more home two more two more homes is what it is. Yes,.

AJ

O

Okay, thank you.

A

Any other questions for the applicant.

A

Thank you, sir. Thank you so much.

A

We will now open the public hearing for uh application. Rz 22-03, which is a rezoning request of a 38.27 acre parcel uh from a agricultural district to a five acre mm lot size to our single family residential district. Three acre minimum lot size uh located uh west of morgan meadow drive on the south side of west highway inn. Anyone wishing to speak regarding this application.

A

If you saw me, swear from that, she'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings or the pains and penalties of perjury. I.

K

A

Please state your name and address for the record.

K

My name is ronnie repay. I live at 732 west, highway inn on wentzville and there's a lot that they want to build.

K

I had three acres and I'm that little cutout that they were showing there well, that's my property so and that road right now is dangerous, as it is because coming east on highway inn, my grandkids like have them, get picked up on the lower driveway, because I want to protect them and the other kids on the buses I'm going to corner because they come around that corner at 50 60 miles an hour and you time you decide you're, you see the bus you're already on top of it, so I had them pick it up below um if they put what they're showing here is one to four residents or buildings on a one acre.

K

That means that they're going to have to change this whole area over in windsville city. I moved out there 20 22 years ago and to get out I wanted to get away from the city, and then probably six months or so after we moved out there, a subdivision started growing down in the lower area in front of me on the north side and then just recently, the gentleman sold his property, which is just north of the or east of west of him and they're, tearing that up now they're wanting to come over.

K

But another subdivision right around me totally wrapped me up. um It's just you know I moved out in the county to get away from everything, but they're just my question. I don't understand too, I mean, I know you guys don't have answers all these businesses that are saying they're looking for employees, who's, buying all these homes, that I don't understand, and I'm I mean there's three or three or four of the places in my area: that's building homes, who's buying these things employee.

K

Unless either employees are lying, that they can't get employees or companies are lying. They can't get employed or I don't know, who's buying all these houses. But uh I don't I'm all for development and then- and I expected this to happen- you know anyway, because I knew the atoms and that but to they need to keep these at least three acres. If not five acre lots.

O

It's five acres now and they're, asking for three.

K

Right but down below here it says: that's.

O

The master plan- that's.

K

The master plan- okay, but that's not what they're requesting for this? Okay so but.

M

They can't put one to four.

K

Okay, well, I like it if they could keep them at least at five. You know, you know it's a woodsfield's a great place to live. We like it out there, but you know, like I said, we're: building more and more homes out there and you're tearing down the trees and everything else, and we, you know, have all ant deers and different animals visit our backyard and that's all going to go by the wayside. If that happens, so that's all I gotta say thanks.

A

Sir, thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak regarding this uh application.

A

You saw swear our affirmative you'll, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. I.

Z

A

Please state your name and address for the record.

AB

Craig berg, I'm at one woodbridge creek drive in wentzville, okay,.

A

Go ahead, craig.

AB

I'm within a thousand feet of the property, as you see the pond on the subject- property, I'm just uh the little odd-shaped kind of triangular. Looking one next to that, my neighbor has 11 acres. He couldn't be here tonight. I thought he would be here as well.

AB

He and I have done what uh had to deal with water erosion from the creek that resides there. So that is a major concern. As far as additional development of the property, we also hunt and have a gun range on the property. So it's a concern for going to an incorporated area versus unincorporated.

AB

I've been a resident of wenceville for the last 20 years. 12 of them I lived in stone meadows, which is a large development. My wife and I and family personally wanted to move out of the development so that we could have serenity peace and quiet. We do have three acres. I was under the same impression as the prior gentleman that this was looking at possibly a one to four um dwellings per acre, so I'm happy to hear that this is is not I'm seeing as though I do have a three acre property.

AB

uh Very close, I don't have a problem with necessarily three acres. My bigger concern is that the builder of my home is right at the front right off of highway n and I'm not sure what the sewer plan is, but it sounds as though it would have to go through our property. We currently have a septic we've also just had to put in a new road out of our own personal funds, because we are unincorporated, so my neighbor and I spent thirty thousand dollars on a new asphalt road.

AB

So I'd like to understand what the sewer plan is. Water is available already. Also, some of the other concerns are reduced property value, the noise levels associated any easements for the utilities, as I just mentioned, potentially increased crime rates, etc. Just some of the things that other folks have said tonight, even for the other zoning issue that was previously discussed the wildlife impact as far as the hunting, and we also have a pond for fishing between our neighbor properties.

AB

That's all I had to share. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

A

Anyone else looking to speak.

A

Do you solemnly swear further, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pays and penalties of perjury? Yes, I do please state your name and address for the record.

H

Thank you very, very much. Members of the commission. My name is harney c ac. Dinoff county public advocate mailing address uh po box 1535 o'fallon 633.66.

H

Could one of you guys please pull up the diagram? That would be the actual houses that have been placed on catherine cove drive.

H

Like a today like a flyover this year, maybe okay like an.

O

Aerial area ariel there.

H

H

So if you look at this picture here, the current aerial, I'm not sure what year this was taken, I don't see 2020 2020. So it's recent. If you look at the density, you count 16 homes on catherine cove and basically, if I my math is right or cracked. It looks to me that there's at least 10 or 11 homes per acre is the density there.

O

H

Yeah there's at least 10 homes per acre.

H

Well, I'm totally wrong.

O

That wouldn't go with the court. I don't think that's! Oh he's talking to him right there, something.

D

B

H

B

Yeah yeah, it's in the city, yeah.

O

That's the city of wentzville, so they have different regulations.

H

Yeah but that'd be pretty accurate right homes, okay, so.

B

H

So, as you could see within directly across the street, from this property, you could see where there's really dense homes. So I feel again, this is responsible growth, there's public water and public sewer. That's available. There's.

O

Not public sewer, yet I don't think, is there no? No.

H

It's available, I mean if they annex this property, the city once so, they can get automatic waste.

O

Water, if they do yeah.

H

So our comprehensive calls for along highway end. As you know, that's the dividing uh corridor highway in it calls for three acre lots. I feel this is responsible growth. It seems like a plan, that's doable, it's a compromise between what the residents want and uh what the desire of the market is again. The conference transfer plan says you can go one to four per acre. If they annex the city of one soil, they could go obviously 10 or 11 per acre. So I would ask that you uh unanimously approve this plan.

H

It seems reasonable to me it seems like a compromise and it seems like the best deal for everybody involved. So thank you.

A

Anyone else wishing to speak sharon, no one we will close the public caring for rz 22-03 asks the applicant to come back.

A

Any questions for the applicant.

I

In terms of the, I assume that all the properties would have septic systems at this point. Yes, sir, and uh again with the steepness of the of the ground. What are they? Is there? Some kind of regulations like because a lot of that is just going to be flowing downhill. Yes,.

AJ

Dnr has already gone out and done their study and we are at 0.92 acres per septic. Oh.

I

Okay, okay, thank you.

AJ

To talk about the traffic that was mentioned, we are giving a 10 foot easement to modot if they ever do want to widen this part of highway, and I know highway inn is moving further south, but we are giving a 10-foot easement to modot if they ever do decide to widen this part.

AJ

Also, regarding traffic, when highway end does move the traffic on this road will be reduced. So adding these eight homes really isn't going to impact that, since highway end is going to be moving further south, um we are maintaining a buffer to now. If I say it wrong, I'm sorry per k. Creek is a tributary to that air on the south part of our land. We are keeping a 50-foot buffer for that creek.

AJ

For this part- and I know they talked about home values too, but our developer is talking about putting million dollar homes on this on these lots, so reducing the home value is really not going to be a problem with the size of homes that are going to be placed on here.

O

So if you put a million dollar home, most million dollar homeowners want five acres versus three.

AJ

I have a half acre and have a million, so I would say no if he hasn't.

D

O

But you're, not you don't live in the middle of nowhere pretty pretty at one time you probably did yeah.

A

This is not in the middle of nowhere anymore trail.

O

This is true, yeah.

A

Any other questions for the applicant.

A

You have anything really yep.

AJ

Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you. So much.

A

Okay, we'll bring uh rz 22-03 back to the commission for consideration.

A

Any questions, comments, questions.

N

I have a question for the staff. um I know you and I personally talked robert about the um situation down in new melli. That's happened a couple times with the minor subdivision plating that could potentially occur and currently right now they wouldn't even need to come to this commission to go, put six houses and they could start bulldozing trees tomorrow and do whatever they wanted to do divide it up how they want to divide it up.

N

I guess, but if we move this to rural residential from agricultural, it comes with some restrictions, if I'm not mistaking that now, they've got to follow some guidelines that are in place for rural residential, so we're talking the difference of two homes, but while we're talking the difference of two homes, we're also talking about some more restrictions that the development has to go through. So to me, that seems like it may be something that we ought to consider, instead of just letting them currently willy-nilly. Do it themselves right now. Am I thinking about that.

R

Right well, under the current agricultural zoning, as long as you have lots, five acres or more, we have a administrative plat approval process called a minor subdivision plot. You can have unpaved streets, you can have, it doesn't even have to be a street honestly, it can be a driveway as long as there's a an easement that all the lots touch an easement.

R

It's usually these minor subdivision plats have minimal infrastructure, so that would be allowed under the a zoning or five acre lots. If you go to three acre zoning, which is this is proposing, it does come with some other changes processes. For instance, any plant has to be a regular plaque that comes to this body and approved by this body. First, second has to have paved streets.

R

Third, has those streets have to be built to public standards? So there's some things like that. Where there's some differences between the two.

K

N

A

Any other questions right now, the chair will entertain a motion to approve rz 22-03, which is the rezoning of 38.27 acres from a agricultural 5 acre minimum lot size to our single family, residential district 3 criminal lot size.

A

The area is located at 1 150 feet west of morgan, meadow drive on the south side of the west, highway end adjacent to the city of wentzville. It's a move motion by mr cleary. Is there a second second? This bar may be second, uh mr shell. How do you vote.

N

A

Mr jackson, yes, mr frohm, yes, mr cornwell, yes, miss bamer, no, uh miss barf! Yes, mr clary, yes and I vote yes,.

D

A

Preliminary plants, okay, uh the next item on our agenda is the preliminary plat for the re-subdivision of oak knoll estate lot, two located at two oak knoll lane uh the application is pre 22-01 property owner is uh shannon. L nardi uh applicant developer is john yancovelli uh for yaakaveli and sums llc.

A

The engineer is sterling engineering and surveying company. The proposed lot is one: the area is 3.529 acres on the it is on the south side of oakland, approximately 600 feet from west of jacobs station road located in council district 7. staff.

B

So the applicant is proposing on creating one additional lot out of lot, two of oaknell subdivision they're, going to split the lot roughly in half to allow for two building sites on this lot. The slot is served by all utilities um and we have not received any letters or comments on this property.

A

Any questions for staff.

O

So it's going to be two homes on 3.5, one acres, correct.

A

Any other questions for staff.

A

Hearing none we'll ask the applicant to come forward.

A

Please raise your right hand. Do you saw me swear firmly, shall tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes, please state your name and address for the record.

AH

My name is john yacovelli. I live at one two, one: four, five saint clement de pere missouri, six, three one, three one.

A

AH

Okay, so basically I mean that's it, so we found a piece of property that is 3.5 acres and it has a frontage of 392 feet with a subdivision minimum of 125 feet. So I would like to split it in half and build two houses on this piece of property.

AH

Both properties already have a buyer attached to them, so it's not anything about selling them. They'll have homes immediately occupied.

A

Question for the applicant.

A

Eric nunn, thank you, sir.

A

Anyone watching this well now open the public hearing for pre 22-01, which is three subdivision of opinional estate slot number two. Anyone wishing to speak.

A

Do you solemnly swear our affirmative. Tell the truth. The whole truths are nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. I did please state your name and address for the record. Thank.

H

You very much commissioners, my name is arnie c ac. Dinoff county public advocate mailing address po box 1535, oh fouling, uh just it's a reasonable request. Isu misapproval! That's all I have to say what does the c stand for not going to tell you.

O

Because he doesn't.

D

A

Else uh want to speak regarding pre 22-01, the re-subdivision of lot, two of open all states. Anyone say no, I'm a close public hearing. Anyone have any questions for the applicants.

A

Chair will entertain a motion to approve pre 22-01.

N

A

There a motion motion second.

N

A

N

Barr, how do you vote for wearing.

A

Down, yes, uh miss bayern. Yes,.

O

A

Clary? Yes, mr cornwall, yes, mr frohm, yes, mr jackson, yes, mr shell, yes.

N

A

A

Now we're down to.

A

Okay, next to the agenda is a preliminary plat for quail ridge. This is application. Number pre, 22-02 property owner is steepleview farm llc. The applicant's k andrew weber authorized agent. The developer is michael mcnamee, the engineers bax engineering company, the current zoning is a agricultural district. uh Five air minimum lot size requested. uh Zoning are our single family residential district. Three acre mill lot size proposed lots are 22, the area is 71.613 acres.

A

The location is on the west side of friedman's road, approximately 3650 feet north of highway p near the cities of saint paul and joseph phil, located in council district, one staff.

B

This is uh the preliminary plot that accompanied the rezoning request on fremouth that was recommended for denial. This is a 22 lot subdivision that will take access off of fremouth road.

B

It will provide a paved street to build the county standards in the middle here and all the lots will take access from that.

B

Let's see here, the development will be located in the northwest portion of the property. Let me see should have.

B

Gonna be located approximately from about this location over to about here, just to give you a scale on the property so that you can see what size of the subdivision we're talking about um and we have received. uh Let's see what is this, it was one letter of opposition to the project.

A

Any questions for staff.

W

Did uh has traffic taking a look at the curb cut and it's in the location that works, and I guess is that part of the reason why I'm looking at right-of-way dedication being requested on this yeah.

B

The right-of-way dedication is there because of the transportation master plan. um So when we see the dedicated portion, we always ask the developer for that and then yeah the highway department has had an opportunity to review and they have not made any comment.

O

So for the, I think some people want to know if we denied the other. Why we're looking at this? If you want to explain to them.

A

The county council has final word. Our vote uh was just a recommendation, so the county council can override our recommendation on the uh zoning request. Okay, so the county council can uh decide to grant the rezoning request and then once it's assuming it, it was rezoned. Then then, what we're considering now is the preliminary plat.

A

How is how is it going to be divided uh the lots and what are the the entrance, and is there uh sufficient rooms for uh emergency vehicles and school buses and those types of things to turn around and storm water, runoff, water quality standards uh tree preservation? That's things we consider in this preliminary plant, but we don't consider those in the rezoning request.

A

Okay, so we go ahead and look at this plat just in case uh if the county council uh decides to grant the rezoning and and then we've already given a recommendation on the the plant so.

W

I'm sorry everything's, fine, okay,.

C

M

C

Security alarm got triggered. I got the notification because I work in this building too. It accidentally got triggered, so they have to come up and check on that. So.

O

Robert you're, not in trouble.

A

uh Let's see we're now, where am I at on this.

O

You know so you were explaining to them. Yeah.

A

O

Doing this even.

A

Though we no now, we've got the africans come back. Yeah.

O

A

Now we'll have the applicants come forward, got the swat team coming in here, sort of.

O

These meetings don't usually get that exciting.

A

um Do you saw me swear, I firmly should tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truths in these proceedings under the pains and penalties of perjury. I do please state.

AC

Your name and address for the record jeff simmons backs engineering, 221 point west boulevard, st charles okay,.

A

D

T

D

Of my concerns.

A

Is how this proposal would work with um if the other 320 acres has developed the flow? The.

AC

Well, this would this is a single cul-de-sac with lots around it, so any other development in that area would have to be off of another entrance. um We'd have to put another entrance off of freymouth.

A

AC

Beyond that, we do uh you know if, if it does uh get passed with the council, we do meet all the requirements of the rr um three acre zoning. We meet the turning radiuses for school buses and fire, and all that and entrance site distance along fremouth as well.

A

So if the other 320 acres was developed, would that also be uh entrance off of farming.

AC

I wasn't aware that there was a part of the property that touched eisenbath, so I suppose it could go off as part of it could be off of eisenbath. Part of it could be off of framework, or maybe both I'm not sure,.

A

Any other any questions for the app.

O

Is there going to be lights in this other ocean on the roads.

AC

uh Not necessarily, I don't believe in three acres, I don't think there is.

O

No, if you were planning on putting any in, I.

AC

Don't believe so.

A

Is there any uh for staff any.

A

Water features on this any water con runoff concerns that we so.

AC

I don't know about runoff concerns, but we do have two areas that will require uh the county buffer. The required natural watercourse buffer one's along the northern edge of a portion of the northern edge of the property, and one runs through a portion of the southern lots and it's showing on a drawing a little further down. Maybe sheet. Four and five.

A

D

It's hatched yeah.

B

That's that's sheet five.

AC

So, what's she for so.

B

AC

In the northern section, I guess it's not shown there, but you can kind of see a draw coming down through those southern lots right there and running actually left um through the. I think it's four lots right. There stop.

D

AC

Those that area.

F

AC

I'm not familiar, but I believe he said that was on the southern property line and and that's you know well south.

I

That's part of the 320.

A

No, no, it's uh sort of the three southern property line of the larger track right.

A

Robert, what is the requirement to have a number of homes to, ha and you have two entrances.

R

Well, the fire code, anything more than 100 homes has to have at least two entrances. Now the county's code does require that streets be carried to the far property line, and so it can connect.

R

But although that's not a hard and fast rule honestly, because when you have private streets, you can't require private streets to tie into you know.

A

Public streets, but that's another question: this be public or private streets.

AC

I it's anticipated at this point to be public.

O

That means that you'd have to cut through somebody's property, to connect it to the rest of the property.

R

Well, it means that um often you'll see streets that dead end on the property line so that when the neighboring adjoining properties develop that they can tie into that yeah now, in this case, the block length is just short of the maximum block length.

R

So one way to deal with if you're over the black maximal block length is put into that stub street into the the property line, but in this case they're just short of that maximum block line.

A

Yeah I mean we had that back in november october november, where we, the over off of when he's off of towers, robert we're, the 140 acres and.

D

A

D

A

The expert realtors, you know somebody told him years ago that would never be that ground never be sold yeah yeah and it was.

O

W

Here's another road you might be listening to that yeah.

O

So I don't, but if you've got so, if you so you're saying I'm a little confused, are you saying there's there would not be if they developed the rest, they would not tie into this road or they could because whose property there would you go through? Is there an easement on this to connect through somebody else's property that they're currently buying the lot? The.

R

Way this is designed, you cannot connect it's just a dead cul-de-sac.

A

This is independent of itself. My concern was when you, if you develop the other 320, uh then where we instead of have so we had this one entrance in the entrance.

AA

A

Exit and now, if you do the other uh 320, then you may have to have at least two uh and on where there's not a lot of room.

D

For that right.

A

Interesting accents.

R

Yeah, if you get, if you have a big pattern of these standalone pod developments, I'll call them where everything is cul-de-sacs come in off the main road. You don't have a lot of circulation within the neighborhood and neighborhood. Everyone has to get off onto the main roadway in order to get anywhere.

R

So it's that's a concern for like an overall pattern. Development pattern.

A

Okay, any other questions for the.

O

Is there an easement buffer around this around this property? There's.

AC

No buffer, however, your building setbacks are 50 feet in this. So there's not going to be anything within 50 feet.

A

Any other questions not thank you, sir. Thank you we'll now open the public hearing for uh uh pre 22-02, which is a preliminary plat for quail ridge. Anyone interested in speaking in this public hearing.

V

So you did a very, very good job, explaining the difference between the two.

A

You saw me swear our firmly you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

V

A

State, your name and address for the records I'm.

V

Michael talbott, again, we love three one: four, five noelle lane: that's right: the corner of eisenbach noel, um just touching a couple things with that everything I said from the earlier thing. I don't for a second believe that they have not discussed developing this whole thing, which he stated earlier just a reminder perjury here, so I don't buy that for a second there's. Nobody that's doing a development. That's this large!

V

That's not considering their options for later, they've already put a gate in down it noel and I's, or downed eyes and bath in the corner right there to access the back side of the property, that's where they intend another road to come out. That's the way it looks like it's been developed the way they graded it and everything else.

V

A couple of things too concerned just with the actual plot plan, um the traffic flow is going to really mess up guthrie and all that when you have everybody coming onto fremont and all that there's no other cut throughs. It's not well designed.

V

My concern is also with lighting. If the council would overwrite override your guys recommendations and um what was the other thing I was going to say, certainly um somebody earlier touched on why this was a bigger hot button issue than it was down south. This has not directed anybody or I had tend to come off as abrasive. Sometimes it's not my intention up there we're dealing with we're all sharing the same water.

V

If anybody pollutes, if their suction system doesn't work, if a well runs dry, I think when we bought our property, I think to have a well replaced, or if you drill, deep, we're talking 15 to 25 or 30 000, it's not a small expense or anything like that. If somebody their wells open it contaminates that aquifer, it affects everybody. That's why it's really really important to most of us that are up here and just the traffic and all the other stuff. It's not that we don't want development out there or anything like that.

V

We want to be smart. We want to be done the way it's supposed to be. We don't have city water, we don't have city sewer, like I said everything that somebody else does on their property tends to affect us and that watershed all the creeks and everything that runs through you know everything a lot of the farmers that are out there, real considerate with their chemical use and all that stuff, because it affects them too, when people that come in and they don't understand kind of how the ecosystem works out there.

V

You know we get people throw tires and stuff off the side of the road into the creek, and we have to clean all that stuff up. So what one person does affects us. It's a big difference and I've been very blessed in my life to work, a really cool job, where I get to deal with people who have absolutely nothing or homeless, and criminals and people are just down there. Watch people have millions of dollars and they're super successful, multi-million dollar homes you take a little bit and what you can learn from us is.

V

Please thank you for listening to us earlier and please just listen when people have concerns thanks. Okay,.

A

Anyone else wishing to speak in this uh public hearing for application, pre 22-02.

A

You saw me swear from you tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in these proceedings from the pains and penalties of perjury. I do please state your name and address for the record tina.

AF

Talbot 3145 noel lane, o'fallon missouri 63366. A lot of my concerns that I want to address.

AG

Are the same things that I said earlier about making the lot smaller and try? I agree that I don't think for one second, that we're talking about a corner piece of this property. It is a very large piece of property, and this is up in the right hand, corner of the square eisenbath is at the very bottom of this square. There's no reason why we needed to put a large entrance with posts and everything.

A

Off it's getting like in this plot, we're talking about about entrance and exits yeah.

AG

A

And runoff and those types of things okay, I.

AG

Think I think that we're talking about several different entrances along fremont, though, and that's a road that cannot handle that that was that was what I was. My point was, um but a lot of my concerns already stated earlier, and I just would like you to take it all into consideration, and I appreciate it thank.

A

You anyone else.

A

You solemnly swear our affirmative, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and these proceedings are in the pains and penalties of perjury.

AD

A

State your name and address for the record.

AD

Jim harrison 135 kerstein farms drive o'fallon, missouri 63366.

A

AD

um I did like the point you brought up about the circle at the end, the street I live on has two or three of those and the very last one in my subdivision. The bus cannot turn around. So those are things that they need to be concerned about the size of that circle and then again, like she said they're going to develop the rest of that. One thing I really did like I want to comment is about the street.

AD

I live on a private street and it's the worst street in st charles county we've been paying for the last 10 years to put concrete in take asphalt out. So half my road is concrete. Half my road is asphalt. We did go through the process about having it taken over, but it would take about. I think the estimate was right around 450 000, to bring the road up to county code, so we could turn it over. These roads need to be roads that are not private.

AD

They need to be public roads that are done correctly and that you know people won't have a problem with in the future. Thank.

F

A

Anyone else switching to speed.

H

I promise I'll make this fast.

A

Solemnly swear in front of you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and he's proceeding on the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes,.

H

I do please state your.

A

Name and address for the record thank.

H

You very much members of the commission. My name is arnie a.c dinoff public advocate mainly addressed po box 1535. Oh following first of all, I want to make sure that the runoff is addressed properly, that we address the erosion issues and with our new codified code with water retention detention, we want to make sure that that's fulfilled 100 percent.

H

uh I also like to offer up on the traffic solutions for traffic safety. uh I do believe that, with this large development that you need to put a condition on the preliminary plan, with a acceleration deceleration lane, wherever the entrances might land or be on the final plan, I think that this will address a lot of the issues.

H

And finally, I want to address the commission in terms of staff, and I would like to ask you to change your policy I ask for this over and over and we come to the same issue every month where our partner letters again, I don't see it on the part of the packet, any correspondence from the fort zumwalt school district, those two elementary schools, uh flint hill and the other one on highway, p they're folded to capacity.

H

But I don't see any letters from the transportation department of the fort zumwalt school district or from the superintendent's office.

H

The second important thing is, I don't see a letter from the chief or the fire marshal, the o'fallon fire protection district, and it's very concerning to me that we're not bringing in our partners when we're talking about the planning stage stages. Mr cornwell worked for the city of o'fallon as a planner he's very aware of what the city of fallon does and they bring in all the partners and all those things are mandated before it goes to the planning and zoning commission.

H

I just wish that this commission would change its rules and mandate staff to gather those documents, so we have it so we know what's going on that, our partners are part of the solution and part of the development. Thank you very much. Mr. Are.

E

You asking us to require certain people to write letters even if they choose not to.

H

Our governmental partners, like.

E

The fire department so we're supposed to go to the fire department and require them to write letters.

H

Not required but give them the opportunity.

E

Well, they can now, I think, have the opportunity.

H

I don't think they were notified of this process. This particular application, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly you were advocating for. I know I called you a found fire protection district and they had no idea about this proposed development.

H

They were not notified by the county, so you're you're not you're, advocating that we notify that that's correct. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Anyone else wishing to speak in the public hearing for pre 22-02.

A

So you want no one. We will close the public hearing any additional questions for the applicant.

A

Okay, well, the chair will entertain a motion to approve the preliminary plat uh for quail ridge application. Pre 22-02.

A

um The current zoning is a agricultural district. Five acre minimum lot size. The requested zoning is our single family residential district, three criminal lot size, uh there's 71.6 acres, where the proposed uh 22 lots- and this is located on the west side of fryemus road. Approximately 3 650 feet north of highway p near the cities of saint paul and josephville.

A

For the record, this commission uh turned down the request for the rezoning, but so now we're voting on the preliminary plat. Okay. Is there a motion to approve the preliminary plat so moved.

O

A

Second, mr cleary, how do you vote.

AD

A

J

A

uh Mr fromm, yes, mr jackson, no, mr shell, now, uh where am I at here miss bart.

E

A

Have I got everybody but me, and I nope oh this there we go miss bamer! No, and I vote yes. So we have a four to four yeah.

C

What's that yeah, it fails. It's it's.

S

Not it fails, it's not a majority yeah.

A

Okay, let's see now the final item on our agenda is preliminary platform hollow located, 800 west highway end. The application is pre 22-03, the property owner is adam's, family, residence trust and alfred k. Adams. The applicant developer, is autumn development. The engineers backs engineering company current zoning is a agricultural district. Five favorite medical lot size requested. Zoning is our single family residential district, three acre minimum lot size proposed lots are eight, the area is 31.934 acres location is 1150 feet.

A

West of morgan, meadow drive on the south side of west highway, inn adjacent to the city of winstonville, located in council district, two staff.

R

Very quickly, things to point out this proposed subdivision would have public water and fire hydrants for fire protection, but would not have public sewer, so it would be on-site uh sanitary sewers disposal. I would note that one lot has an existing lake. They were proposed to remain or pond. I should say a lot too, so any of the on-site, the drain field for the septic would have to meet the setback requirements from that from that lake.

R

uh The watercourse in the back will be protected by vegetative buffer at least 25 feet off the top of the bank on both sides. Then one thing that I would like to to to mention excuse me.

R

That is kind of a remainder and would need to be addressed. Should this plant be approved, there's a sliver of land. It looks like there will be a leftover in the northwest corner and that would be less than the five acres. So I think what we'd have to do in order to for me to prove this plot. I think we'd have to um have a a minor subdivision plot that I have to sign at the same time. That would combine this left or remainder piece with the neighboring property.

R

That's the way I'm reading it.

I

On that one, with a lot on it, excuse me: uh does that develop a lot? Are they.

R

The drain field for the septic will have to meet the setback, requirements from water bodies.

O

So you're talking about the there's, it says: property adam's family residence. If, uh let's see what's this item number.

R

O

I'm reading that to be.

R

A remainder slice like a.

O

Regular piece correct, so what are you saying with that? We're gonna have to do with that. Well,.

R

Since that would be less than the uh minimum lot size, I believe for that zoning district isn't that.

D

R

So yeah, then I think that would have to be combined with the the property next door at the same time that, through a minor subdivision plot process could be done through quickly too quickly. You think, okay, because it's never been plotted so.

O

Put it into lot seven.

B

Well, no, it would go into the lot there to the left. Yeah.

A

To the left, okay, but we we re-zoned that correct, no.

B

We just re-zoned the portion, that's shown here in the plat okay.

A

B

Just just this portion here this in the plot.

R

Yeah, there's uh the the rezoning boundary for whatever reason didn't follow. The lot boundaries is slicing across the corners of like three lots. The zoning boundary did the.

B

Let's see here, the rezoning was 38.27 acres and I think the overall is like 39 something acres. So just just shy of the full.

O

I guess we can ask the applicant why that was when they come up: yeah, okay,.

A

Any questions for staff anymore: no, okay: let's applicants come forward.

A

Do you uh solemnly swear, our affirmation will tell the truth. The whole truth are nothing but the truth and these proceedings under the pains and penalties of perjury. I do please state your name and address for the record.

AJ

uh My name is charles wardle. I work at bax. Engineering address is 221 point west boulevard, st charles missouri 63301.

A

AJ

What questions do you have so.

O

AJ

The slice so the slice that slice and the piece of property next to it was going to be combined to make a five acre lot.

O

AJ

So we are going to do once we get this approved. We are going to come back and put that five acres for agriculture.

D

A

How are you going to access.

AJ

That it's gonna be accessed off a highway inn.

A

Okay, just on that little sliver, that's at the top. There.

AJ

No, it's gonna be that sliver that sliver plot there, the plot to the left of it that's owned by alfred adams and the plot below it, that's owned by alfred adams. Those three are going to be combined into a five acre plot, so.

O

And you had to sliver that off in order to have access to that.

AJ

Go through the other okay, yes, that makes.

O

Sense all right and.

AJ

I had to bring that all the way down to the all the way down to the cul-de-sac, so I could get water to it. That's.

D

AJ

Up to that five acres.

F

Okay is that okay.

A

Anybody have any uh questions for the applicant.

O

Arnie's worried about the sheriffs being out there.

A

Hearing none. Thank you, sir.

AJ

Thank you so much.

A

Now now open the public hearing for pre 22-03 did you.

O

Say there's times.

A

You saw me swear in front of tell the truth. The whole truth is nothing but the truth. These proceedings are the pains and penalties of perjury. Thank.

N

A

Please state your name and address for the record. Thank.

H

You very much my name is arnie c ac. Dinoff county public advocate mainly addressed p.o box 1535., oh foul, um I ask you: do you approve this primary plat makes sense. The only thing that I'm missing is the partner letters from the water district, the sewer, because it's going to be septic and our other partners, the winsell fire protection district and, of course the windsville school district is bursting at the seams.

H

Although this is a small development, it's going to have a small impact, but he had all these small impacts and we're going to have to have another elementary school in this region.

H

So again, I ask you to change your policy and that you mandate that staff make sure that we involved all of our partners give them the voluntary access to be part of the solution, to offer up uh comments and to put letters on file if they desire. Those are my comments, mr chairman. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone.

A

Else wishing to speak in this uh public hearing for pre 22-03, so you know what we'll close the public hearing bring it back to the commission for consideration. Anyone have any comments for the applicant.

X

A

You're good uh chair will entertain a motion to approve pre 22-03, which is a preliminary pledge for auden hollow located 800 west highway inn. Is there a motion.

I

Motion second,.

A

Mr cleary made the motion: miss barry made the second mr cornwell.

J

A

Mr prom, yes, mr jackson, yes, mr shell, yes, ms barr, yes, ms bamer, yes, mr cleary, yes and I vote yes, it passes.

A

Okay. Next, we have no continued items. The next thing on our agenda is the approval of the november 17 2021 minutes.

A

Chair will entertain a motion to approve the november 17th 2021 minutes. Is there a motion.

Z

A

O

A

Been a motion in a second all in favor, saying aye, aye aye aye uh cheryl entertained a motion to approve the january 19th 2022 planning zoning. Many minutes.

O

A

Is there a second second motion and second, to approve the january 19 2022 meeting minutes uh all in favor sign aye, aye.

D

A

Minutes have been approved, uh planning and zoning division updates there better, not be any.

O

There's 10 cop cars out there saying why.

R

One question that I have is whether or not you all use your paper unified development, ordinance books or whether you use uh warning or the online version. The reason I'm asking is we prepare.

R

You know the paper version for everyone, but we're considering you know scaling back on that, but we don't want to do so if, if you're using those paper versions, so you don't have to let me know tonight, you can just let us know uh email or whatever, but if you have a preference on that, if you don't have a preference, we'll still keep doing what we're doing, but we'll kind of kill.

M

R

Just so you'll know we have a lot of openings in the planning division, so I'm we're on television. Now I will let the world know that we have openings for planner, two planner, three senior planner and land use manager all at st charles county. So if you know of anyone who might be interested in working for st charles county, we have those planner openings advertised right now. Can I.

M

R

I would say if you want to know about the minimum requirements, you can look online for each of those positions. I.

A

Have a 50 year old civil engineering degree.

R

I bet you their education and experience combined would somehow meet the minimum requirements.

R

If it pays anything like the other county.

C

Jobs planner two, not planner, three.

R

Anyway, I want to let you know that we're going to update our policy on the fireworks stand concept plans because somewhere along the way, we've kind of gotten off track. I think that we're right, the drawings are not very good, so we want to. We want to uh improve those so that people understand what's going on with the fireworks stand. Cps.

R

The last thing I want to mention is letters. uh We always send out letters to all the utilities and all the agencies that might be involved. We keep a list of those. In fact we make a matrix for every application. We make sure we're sending them to everyone, but one thing in particular: I've heard dozens of times and that has to do with school districts in 25 or 30 years. I've never received a letter from a school district. Saying, don't don't approve this because we don't have enough room in school. They just don't do it.

R