►
Description
St. Charles County Planning and Zoning Meeting: September 16, 2020
A
A
A
B
B
Good
evening
and
welcome
to
the
september
16
2020
saint
charles
county
planning
and
zoning
commission
meeting
at
this
time,
I
would
request
that
everyone,
please
turn
off
or
mute
all
cell
phones
and
other
electronic
devices,
and
also
at
this
time.
I
would
invite
everyone
to
please
stand
with
me
for
the
pledge
of
allegiance.
B
B
I
will
read
into
the
record
the
first
the
items
on
our
agenda.
We
will
have
the
applicant
come
forward
present
their
application
answer
any
well.
Excuse
me
first
we'll
have
a
report
from
staff
and
then
have
the
applicant
come
forward
present
their
application
answer,
questions
that
the
commission
may
have
and
then
we
will
open
it
up
for
a
public
hearing.
Anyone
wishing
to
speak
regarding
the
application
can
come
forward
and
speak
if
you
do
come
forward
and
speak,
including
the
applicants.
B
B
B
The
first
item
on
our
agenda
tonight
is
a
preliminary
plat
for
the
villas
at
lake,
st
louis
located
at
1936
dewallo
road.
The
application
number
pre
20-13
the
owner
developer
is
james,
w
clemens,
the
owner
engineer.
Surveyor
is
thd
design
group.
The
zoning
is
r2.
Two
family
residential
district
proposed
lots
are
five.
The
parcel
size
is
1.10
acres.
The
location
is
on
the
north
side
of
dweller
road,
approximately
430
feet,
east
of
hidden
bluffs
drive
adjacent
to
the
city
of
lake
st
louis.
This
is
located
in
council
district
2
staff.
C
You
may
recall
that
in
july
2020
a
similar
plaque
came
before
this
body,
and
so
I
won't
cover
in
in
great
detail.
I
won't
rehash
everything,
but
I'll
just
provide
a
few
highlights.
Also.
I
should
know
that
the
the
attorney
for
the
applicant
is
here
tonight
and
he
can
provide
further
information
as
necessary,
but
I
would
characterize
this
as
an
infill
project.
C
Internal
street
is
required
by
the
county's
subdivision
regulations
and
that's
to
prevent,
for
instance,
five
lots
with
five
new
driveways
coming
out
in
quick
succession
near
an
intersection
and
slowing
down
traffic
or
interfering
with
traffic.
I
should
say
in
this
case
the
plot
that
came
before
you
in
july.
C
B
D
B
D
Well,
I'll
just
work
with
that
on
the
on
the
what's
on
the
screen,
the
actual
front
yard
setback
we've
got
the
adjustment
to
is
21
feet,
it's
not
20,
not
that
it
particularly
matters.
So
we
had
a
four
foot
adjustment.
As
robert
said,
what
we
did
after
the
plant
denial
was.
We
went
back
and
redesigned
the
project.
D
D
D
It's
over
to
the
right
is
that
common
ground
is
where
all
the
trees
are
being
preserved.
What
we
did
was
we
changed
the
the
curvature
of
that
road
and
changed
the
slope
a
little
bit
so
we're
putting
us.
I
think
the
way
the
engineer
is
solving
is
we're
putting
a
little
a
very
small
wall
to
make
it
work
and
so
that
we
don't
have
to
grate
as
much.
That
was
the
problem
and
so
and
what
we're
doing
is
providing
compensatory
trees
on
the
other
side.
D
E
B
B
B
H
A
H
Box
1535
o'fallon
missouri
633-66,
as
you
all
know,
I'm
very
opposed
to
this
piece
of
property.
The
number
one
opposition
is
the
density.
First
of
all,
let
me
just
back
up
and
make
it
a
matter
of
public
record.
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
ask
staff
about
notification
to
adjoining
property
owners.
The
adjoining
neighborhoods
and
the
adjoining
homeowner
associations
was
there
proper
notification.
Was
there
proper
publication
of
this
zoning
matter,
the
zoning
hearing
before
the
blending
and
zoning
commission?
This
is
a
brand
new
issue,
so
were
they
properly
notified?
H
Was
their
notification
to
the
people
within
400
feet
or
the
approximately
we'll
ask
them
that
question?
Okay?
So
that's
my
first
thing,
I'd
like
to
make
a
matter
of
public
record.
The
second
thing
is
the
density
issue.
As
you
all
know,
our
county,
codified
ordinances
say
four
homes
per
one
acre,
a
property
in
this
case
there's
five
homes
for
1.1
acres
and
the
density
issue.
In
my
opinion,
this
project
should
be
scaled
down
to
four
homes.
H
H
H
I
would
like
to
see
some
increase
of
landscaping
increasing
of
trees,
plenty
of
additional
trees
with
the
preservation,
hopefully
they're,
going
to
meet
the
county
code
for
preservation
of
the
tree
ordinance
and
create
some
type
of
berm
to
mitigate
the
effect
on
the
adjoining
property
owners,
especially
with
their
property
values,
and
the
final
issue
that
I
like
to
address
is
surface
water
protection
retention.
Detention
area
upon
reveal
the
plans.
I
don't
see
anywhere,
where
it
talks
about
retention,
detention
of
this
property.
H
H
H
However,
I
guess
it's
a
good
trade-off
for
the
tree
preservation
that
section
410.145
of
the
codified
ordinances
be
maintained.
For
those
reasons,
I'm
opposed
to
this
project,
the
neighbors
I
don't
believe,
have
been
properly
notified
or
they
would
have
been
here.
They
were
admirably
opposed
at
the
last
meeting.
They
weren't
notified
or
brought
up
to
speed
with
the
changes
in
the
developments,
and
I
think
it's
kind
of
unfair
to
those
residents
that
didn't
have
opera
ample
opportunity
to
appear
before
you
and
testify.
For
those
reasons,
I'm
opposed
to
this
project.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
B
B
B
D
D
There
is
no
additional
landscaping
is
required
and
then,
of
course,
we
are
preserving
beyond
that
the
landscaping
and
behind
us
and
the
surface
water
and
detention,
we
will
obviously
comply
with
all
the
saint
charles
county
requirements,
but
the
water
doesn't
run
took
my
plant
down,
the
water
doesn't
run
back
toward
the
neighbors.
The
water
runs
toward
the
street
toward
dwello,
so
the
concerns
that
they
had
about
water
running
onto
them
absolutely
can't
happen
because
it'd
have
to
run
uphill.
So
I
think
that
answers
the
questions
that
mr
deanoff
raised.
B
D
B
C
Notification
we
properly
notified
everyone,
as
required
by
ordinance
for
platts,
it's
adjacent
property
owners,
so
we
we
notified
adjacent
property
owners,
and
I
would
note
that
that
inc
debt
did
include
notification
of
the
homeowners
association
for
the
subdivision
to
the
west
because
they
own
the
detention
basin
that
backs
up
to
most
of
this,
not
just
detention
based
they
only
common
ground
that
backs
up
to
most
of
this
property,
so
we
did
notify
them.
We
also
notified
the
city
of
lake,
st
louis,
and
also
two
other
municipalities
as
well.
Let's
see
darden
prairie.
C
In
fact,
I
got
a
call
from
the
city
manager
for
darden
prairie.
The
reason
we
notify
other
jurisdictions
is
because
in
our
code
it
says
that
if
you're
within
a
certain
distance,
a
municipality
can
protest,
and
so
this
this
area
happens
to
be
close
to
several
municipalities
and
the
city
manager
indicated
that
they
didn't
have
a
problem
with
the
application
or
the
plot.
I
should
say
thank
you.
B
B
E
B
I
B
I
A
B
B
The
engineer
surveyor
is
landmark.
Surveying
company,
the
zoning
is
a
agricultural
district.
Proposed
lots
is
two
parcel
size
is
10.82.
Acres
location
is
on
the
south
side
of
hoffman
hills,
drive
approximately
165
feet
south
of
hopewell
road,
one
half
mile
from
the
city
of
o'fallon,
located
in
council
district
2
staff.
C
C
One
is
that
this
10
plus
acre
parcel
has
enough
room
in
the
back
conceptually
to
build
a
house
in
the
back
but
understand
from
the
applicant
that
they
propose
to
once.
This
lot
is
created
to
de-subdivide
this
parcel
and
to
instead
take
access
from
hopewell
road
to
the
north,
so
it'd
be
out
of
the
subdivision
and
it
would
take
access
from
the
driveway
from
to
hopewell
road
to
the
north,
and
that's
the
essence
of
what's
before
you
here
so
in
build.
Instead
of
building
a
street
to
a
parcel
that
is
supposed
to
be
de-subdivided.
C
B
J
J
No,
there
are
several
slides.
One
is
before
we
prior,
we
moved
in,
I
went
through
the
dentures
and
there
were
a
lot
of
things
that
they
just
took
cookie
cutter
plat
from
big
neighborhoods,
and
I
saw
sewer
400
a
year.
Well,
we're
not
they're,
not
paying
that.
So
I
said
you
need
to
take
that
out
this
house
and
one
of
the
when
we
purchased
the
land
that
was
sold.
It
was,
as
is
two
acres
or
two
lots,
or
one
lot.
J
He
was
getting
split
it
or
buy
it
so
before
purchasing,
I
said
I
want
the
right
to
still
split
that,
so
I
sent
an
email
back
and
forth.
That
was
the
correspondence
which
I
sent
some
of
that
they
had
before.
He
said
he
could
prove
it.
He
would
have
to
go
to
the
homeowners
and,
let
them
all
know
so
he
went
to
the
homeowners,
they
approved
it
one
of
the
neighbors
who's
complaining
about
it,
also
signed
it
and
approved
it,
and
this
was
in
2012
when
I
purchased
it.
J
J
They
said
it's
gonna,
add
more
traffic
whatever,
so
I
found
a
way
not
to
add
traffic
by
getting
to
the
back
through
hopewell,
road
and
and
there's
plenty
of
room
that
no
one
will
see
it
they're
only
a
j
butts
up
to
our
lot
and
the
neighborhood
of
the
homeowners
and
one
other
homeowners
association
and
that's
a
that's
a
ditch,
and
I
really
would
like
to
do
this.
Okay,
because
I
think
visually
seeing
is
better
because
there
was
a
there
was
an
opposition,
and
I
guess
I
want
to
respond
to
the
opposition.
A
J
Okay,
this
is
the
initiation
before
I
purchased
land
2012..
This
is
where
he
said
it
was
necessary,
he'll
be
seeking
homeowner
approval
and
after
the
homeowner
approval,
which
I've
already
provided
through
the
portal,
the
sign
the
meeting
minutes
of
the
meeting
and
such
that
approved
it
before
we
purchased
the
lot.
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
So
he's
gone
on
to
say
a
lot
of
things:
the
hurts
and
he's
step.
One
he's
adventures
of
our
subdivision.
We
all
brought
in
to
say
cannot
be
split.
You
might
have
read
this
because
it
is
on
in
the
portal.
I
don't
know
if
everybody's
read
this
or
not
so
I
just
wanted
to
give
my
response
to
it
and
prior
to
purchasing
is
what
I
went
through
just
now
and
then
his
second
complaint
was.
J
We
were
the
first
people
in
the
subdivision
we
bought
in
a
small
lot.
There's
not
there's
five
small
lots,
one
big
lot
so
knowing
the
potential
up
to
have,
but
they
were
selling
the
our
lot
lot,
three
as
one
or
two,
so
it
would
have
been
seven
possibly
and
those
two
lots
still
have
been
bigger
than
the
smaller
lots.
J
Anyway,
he's
talking
about
divide
people
dividing
half
acre
to
one
acre.
I
don't
know
this.
Is
I'm
dividing
in
half
a
five
acre
lot?
So
I'm
not
sure
what
he
went
on
to
say
there
no
house
will
be
built
near
the
hertz,
in
other
words,
out
of
his
sight
line
of
sight
and
I'll
show
you
that
in
another
drawing
all
the
neighbors
had
a
right
to
buy
this
land
before
me.
So
I
don't
know
why
they're
complaining,
if
see
going
to
the
next
one.
J
More
importantly,
the
10
acres
on
the
three
lot
lot
3
is
mostly
unusable
and
that's
I
I
disagree
with
that.
Totally
it's
beautiful
flat
land.
I
heard
it
was
a
cow
pasture
before
it's
grown,
trees
and
stuff.
Since
it's
it's
the
best
part
of
the
lot,
it
just
sits
way
in
the
back,
and
I
was
not
going
to
build
my
house
there.
So
I
sit
up
high.
We
all
set
up
high.
J
A
J
C
A
J
J
J
E
J
Okay,
okay,
yeah
he's
gonna
get
.09
extra
land
for
the
swap,
so
it's
5.09
you're
giving
it
so
I'm
giving
five
you
can
make
it
five
even
he's
getting
it.
He
was
happy
for
that.
It's
also
a
buffer
for
him
and
his
where
his
house
sits
it's
that
little
it'll
be
a
little
rectangle
there
and,
as
you
see,
I'm
glad
you
have
this
drawing
up,
see
how
very
slight
40
is
and
50
and
six
all
the
trees
in
the
back.
J
It's
really
unusual
and
we're
coming
way
in
no
one's
gonna
see
this
no
one's
gonna.
It's
and
that's
the
flat
area.
Right
there.
It's
a
beautiful
flat
area.
There's
not
no!
It's
it's!
It's
a
prime
part
of
the
lot.
Just
we
just
never
took
advantage
of
it.
We
also
if
you've
seen
the
dentures.
You
probably
can't
go
through
everybody's
indentures.
We're
allowed
to
have
horses.
We're
allowed
to
have
barns.
We'll
have
lot
three
had
a
lot
of
exceptions
and
it's
in
the
dentures
bylaws,
so
yeah.
G
J
The
you
I
put
it
through
the
portal,
so
that
was
the
minutes
of
the
meeting
that
as
and
I
talked
to
the
guy
gentleman
yesterday,
his
name
was
tim
duggan.
He
sold
us
the
property
and
he
said
that
all
the
neighbors
agreed
and
that's
the
only
way
they
can
make
change.
He
thought
it
was
a
change
in
the
indentures
and
doesn't
know
why
they're
fighting
the
minutes
of
meeting
were
sent
to
all
the
neighbors.
They
had
this
in
2012
and
is
when
I
try
to
act
on
it.
I'm
getting
feed
feedback.
J
E
J
K
J
Not
following
the
rules,
they
got
a
one.
The
first
second
house
built
has
a
front
facing
garage,
then
dentures
say
no
front
facing
garage.
They
got
a
flag.
Pole
says
no
things
hanging
out,
for
which
I
don't
care.
I
really
don't
care
about
all
of
it.
Someone
moved
in
they
still
claiming
they
have
2500
square
feet
and
dentures
say
it
must
be
3
000
square
feet
unless
you
have
a
thousand
in
the
basement.
J
J
This
image
they
rotate
themselves.
I
try
to
get
on
the
board.
Why
would
they
be
afraid
of
me?
I
said
you
need
liability
insurance
they'd
have
oh,
we
better
go
do
that.
I
mean
I
was
on
the
board
and
homeowner
association
and
fill
some
farms.
I
kind
of
know
the
layout
and
everything.
That's
why
I
came
in
my
red,
then
dentures.
You
guys
don't
need
this
this
this.
I
want
to
be
able
to
put
solar
panels.
You
know
the
future
this.
This
doesn't
allow
it.
So
those
were
the
things
I
was
adding.
G
J
J
C
Normally,
with
most
plats,
the
planning
and
zoning
commission
and
the
county
as
well
doesn't
take
into
consideration,
covenants
or
restrictions,
because
it's
considered
to
be
a
an
agreement
between
two
private
parties
that
the
county's
not
party
of
except
we
do,
are
involved
in
covenants
and
restrictions
in
some
ways
having
to
do
with
like
street
maintenance.
Things
like
that,
except
with
re-subdivision.
C
The
planning
zoning
commission
can
take
into
account
specifically
the
planning
zoning
commission,
the
governing
body
or
director
of
division
of
planning.
Zoning
may
take
into
consideration
the
limitations
on
the
resubdivision,
which
are
imposed
in
duly
authorized
and
binding
subdivision
covenants,
indentures
or
restrictions,
if
any
in
the
preceding
paragraph.
It
says
that,
as
part
of
this
consideration
that
certified
copies
of
recorded
subdivision
covenants
indentures
restrictions,
if
any,
should
be
provided
now.
C
C
J
E
B
E
J
B
If,
if
they
haven't
ever
filed
the
document
right
okay,
so
then
you
do
the
title
search.
It's
not
going
to
show
up
okay,
so
those
those
covenants
that
they
have.
Those
indentures
that
make
a
difference,
don't
make
any
difference,
because
if
they,
if
they
don't
show
up
in
a
title,
search,
if
they're
not
of
record,
then
it
doesn't
apply.
J
B
I
Can
we
robert,
I
have
a
question
for
you,
so
you
you
say
on
here
on
it
doesn't
mean
meet
technical,
a
preliminary
plan,
so
if
it
did,
does
the
county
have
an
issue
with
it?
I
guess
is
one
of
the
questions
and
the
other
question
is
without
this:
having
a
street
access
and
it
being
a
landlocked
property.
Can
we
approve
it
anyway
because
it
doesn't
meet
it?
I
mean
you
know.
We
know
that
he
has
exchanged
it,
but
we
don't
have
anything
that
that
shows
that.
J
E
J
I
I
J
C
Speaking,
I
can
answer
some
of
your
questions.
One
is
the
the
plat
before
you
there's
still
is
still
lacking
some
technical
requirements
such
that
are
easily
resolved
and
fixable,
for
instance,
adding
the
proper
signature
block,
adding
the
contours
at
five
foot,
two
for
one
foot
intervals
to
the
plat
there's
a
number
of
other
things
that
can
be
addressed.
That
aren't.
A
C
C
The
answer
is,
is
yes,
but
it's
a
special
it's
a
special
request
to
you
for
your
consideration,
the
it's
not
technically
a
variance.
It's
it's
a
waiver
and
it
says
that
the
planning
zoning
commission,
if
for
topographic
reasons
or
if
there's
an
equal
or
better
solution,
can
consider
approving
a
plat
with
a
lot
that
does
not
front
on
a
public
or
private
street,
but
instead
on
an
access
easement.
So
occasionally
you
have
done
so.
For
instance,
I'm
thinking
of
I'm
trying
to
remember
the
name
of
the
plan.
It
was
all
femi
osage.
J
C
C
But
really
before
you
can
de-subdivide
you've
got
to
have
a
lot.
That's
created,
you
can't
really
de-subdivide
land,
that's
not
yet
doesn't
exist
or
partial
doesn't
yet
exist.
Okay,
so
we
advise
that
the
proper
step
is.
Do
this
part
first
create
the
parcel
and
then
descend
apply
to
the
county
council
to
de-subdivide
that
those
are
the
two
steps
involved
and
that's
next
month
yeah
and
we
do
have
that
application
into
the
subdivide.
But
we
don't
have
a
lot.
That's
existing
yet
due
to
subdivide.
B
Now
shouldn't
a
preliminary
plat
include
how's
this
this
land
swap
this
the
ground,
for,
let's
just
call
it
an
acre
for
conversation,
this
acre
of
ground
for
the
driveway
to
hope.
Well,
how's
that
going
to
get
connected
to
this
parcel
legally,
not
not
physically,
but
how
will
that
become
part
of
lot
3a
well,.
C
C
So
if
it's
not,
if
it's
not
in
a
subdivision,
you
have
farm
parcels
that
are
100
acres
that
are
not
on
any
street
and
they
just
have
access
easements
and
those
are
unplanted
parcels
that
have
never
been
planted.
Yep
and
that's
the
situation
that
this
parcels
would
be
in.
If
it's
de-subdivided,
it's
just
going
to
be
kind
of
floating
a
parcel.
That's
floating
out
there
and
they're
going
to
have
to
have
a
driveway
access
via
an
easement
or
crossing
their
own
land
to
get
down
to
the
nearest
roadway.
Okay,.
C
C
C
For
example,
they
have
to
look
at
things
like
stormwater
culverts
going
under
the
driveway
and
other
considerations
like
that.
But
I
honestly
have
haven't
been
involved
in
any
discussions
about
site
distance,
for
instance,
up
and
down
hopewell
road
and
whether
there's
trees
in
the
way
or
anything
like
that.
J
J
J
Number
seven:
oh
see
the
vons
will
split
the
land
behind
existing
home
between
another
lot
butts
up
the
hopewell
road
landlocked,
so
they're
talking
about
landlocked,
which
we've
already
discussed,
and
we
do
not
want
to
lose
our
privacy
and
security
to
having
how
I
mean
you
saw
the
area,
it's
not
it's
below
my
land,
it's
going
to
be
butted
up
and
this
long
strip
that
that
area
that
long
strip
there.
I
don't
know
if
I
haven't
on
this
drawing
yeah.
I
guess
this.
J
This
is
the
only
strip
of
land
and
see
how
narrow
it
I
mean
it's
only.
It
butts
up
to
one
person
at
the
very
bottom
of
the
bay
hill
there
and
going
to
his
next
opposition.
Let's
see,
we
do
not
want
to
lose
our
privacy
either
having
another
okay.
We
did
that
one
he's
talking
about
the
culvert
agriculture,
water
and
such
what
he's.
If
he's
concerned
with
that,
and
something
was
added
on
my
lot,
which
is
a
hundred
foot
three
foot
pipe,
I've
put
a
lot
of
dirt
up
mounds.
J
So
it's
my
driveway
and
I
can
show
you
that
drawing
it's
really
it
does
not
is
not
affected
at
all.
That
is
this
water
cool
this
dry,
it's
a
dry
water.
It
dries
it
just
flows
right
between
his
land
and
my
lane.
We
both
own
parts
of
this
ditch
so
that
whole
five
acre
this
four
acres
out
here
is
roughly
one
here
four
here,
it's
not
near
that
at
all.
J
B
B
B
J
I
put
them
on
a
portal
and
I
have
them
right
here
minutes
of
the
meeting
from
which
one
of
them,
one
of
the
they
they
and
I
showed
you
the
email
where
he
has
said
he's
going
to
go
to
the
homeowners
to
get
all
approval.
He
does
due
diligence,
he's
a
real
nice
guy
and
made
sure
he
stayed
in
for
the
long
haul
can.
J
G
G
J
J
J
J
J
E
B
E
B
J
Yeah,
when
alan's
al
sent
that
he
the
he
the
other
two
members
weren't
on
the
land
they
their
friends,
he
would
go
reach
out
to
the
other
two
and
send
the
approval.
That's
what
they
had
to
inform
the
homeowners,
and
that
was
that
initial
email.
That
tim
said
he
was
not
going
to
do
anything
until
he
talked
to
all
the
homeowners,
but
did.
J
E
B
B
J
B
B
J
E
J
I
I
J
I
I
J
I
don't
know
you
mean
his
opposition
to
it.
Yes,
well
on
the
premise
that
they
were,
he
was
notified
and
the
medicine
meeting
was
sent
to
them
that
I'll,
possibly
split
in
the
future
I
and
two
and
it
has
to
be
five
acres.
What
I
understand
in
the
st
louis
county,
saint
charles
county,
so
I'm
I'm
not
sure
what
he
was
referring
to
there,
but
it's
not
oversized.
It's
not
doesn't.
J
And
lot
three
it
it's
in
the
subdivision
or
in
the
indentures
that
lot
three
can
build.
The
barn
have
horses,
one
horse
per
acre
and
such
and
other
things,
and
I
said
I
could
only
have
two
animals.
I
said
you
gotta
change
anyway.
This
is
some
of
the
extra
things
I
was
asking
for
when
I
initially
before
I
purchased
land.
F
K
E
I
Here's
the
way
it
doesn't
matter
yeah,
it
really
doesn't
matter
here.
Here's
the
way
I
look
at
it
is
that
he's
just
asking
this
subdivided
a
10-acre
bot
with
access.
That's
not
even
going
through
the
subdivision,
which
is
most
of
their
objections.
It
seems
to
me
the
thing
to
do
would
be
to
if
I
were
going
to
vote
would
be
to
vote
for
it,
but
subject
to
approval
of
the
the
access
by
this
the
county
department
of
the
driveway.
It
seems
to
me
that
that
solves
all
the
problems.
I
C
That's
that's
certainly
possible
to
do
and
there's
I
think,
11
points
in
your
memo
about
things
that
need
to
be
addressed
right
in
order
to
meet
all
the
technical
requirements.
I
would
say
they're
easily
addressable
things
like
provide
the
appropriate
signature
block
indicate
the
date
of
the
survey
provide
a
legal
description
which
they
provided.
It's
just
not
on
the
plat.
There's
a
lot
in
here
depict
the
topography,
indicate
the
average
lot
size
for
the
resubdivision,
etc.
J
C
B
B
H
H
For
the
record,
thank
you
very
much,
mr
chairman.
Members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
arne
c
ac
dinoff
county
public
advocate
and
resident
mainly
addressed
p.o
box
1535.
Oh
following
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
request
that
the
commission
table
a
motion
to
table
is
in
definite
order.
Here
till
we
get
some
definite
answers
and
needed
documents.
H
I
want
to
make
sure
that
our
county
and
our
430
county,
our
430
000
county
residents,
don't
face
any
legal
consequences
or
precedences
set
in
this
case
matter,
for
the
record
was
unification
made
to
both
the
city
of
o'fallon
and
the
city
of
lake
lake.
St
louis
were
all
the
other
five
lot
owners
legally
notified
by
mail,
as
required
by
county
code
and
state
law.
H
As
you
all
know,
the
code
does
give
you
some
leniency
under
provisions
of
section
410.480
d
of
the
county
code,
and
I
want
to
recite
the
planning
and
zoning
commission
may
waive
the
requirement
that
any
proposed
lots
not
take
access
from
a
county
roadway
where
there
is
a
topographic
hardship
or
if
any,
equal
or
better
alternative
can
be
provided.
That
is
not
in
agreement
with
this
ordinance.
H
H
H
In
my
opinion,
I
think
that
the
tabling
is
in
order
we're
putting
the
cart
before
the
horse
just
to
make
it
a
matter
of
public
record.
There
are
numerous
areas
that
the
subdivision
regulations-
chapter
410
of
our
county
codified
code,
have
not
been
met.
We
apply
the
standard
and
ask
for
these
documents,
upfront
from
all
other
applicants,
number
one
we're
lacking
identification
and
natural
watercourses
and
vegetated
buffer
requirements.
H
The
new
the
applicant
needs
to
provide
exact
limits
and
dimensions
of
natural
watercourse,
vegetated
buffers
as
preserved
on
the
record
subdivision
plot.
That's
pretty
major
two
is
to
provide
a
soil
evaluation
for
septic
approval.
That's
pretty
major!
That's
not
just
a
technical
deficiency
number
three
provide
the
appropriate
signature
block.
Yeah!
That's
a
technical
issue.
Number
four
indicate
the
date
of
the
survey.
That's
a
technical
issue!
Five
provide
a
legal
description.
That's
a
major
issue
here,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
adjoining
a
property
owner's
rights
aren't
trampled
on
number
six
depict
the
topographical.
H
The
topographic
of
the
tract
with
concours
intraverse
intervals
of
one
two
five
feet
on
the
usgs
datum.
Seven
is
to
indicate
the
average
lot
size
for
the
subdivision.
That's
a
major
requirement,
not
a
technical.
One
number
eight
indicate
all
property
owners
within
100
feet
of
the
perimeter
of
the
plot.
It's
pretty
major
in
my
opinion,
number
10
as
lot
3a
would
not
front
on
an
internal
subdivision
street,
but
instead
take
access
from
hopewell
road,
submit
a
written
request
or
waiver
from
the
requirements
of
section
410.2808.2
of
the
subdivision
regulations.
H
That's
a
major
requirement
that
he
hasn't
gone
over
that
hurdle.
Eleven
provide
a
copy
of
the
recorded
subdivision,
covenants
and
dentures
restrictions,
section
410.060
c.
If
any,
it's
a
major
issue.
That's
of
stumbling
block
that
we've
discussed
extensively
here-
number
13.
I
would
add
a
13
issue
that
he
needs
to
go
through
the
approval
process
through
our
county
superintendent,
county
engineer
for
road
and
highways
for
a
permit
for
an
entrance
access
plan.
H
H
H
H
H
We're
the
hardship
hasn't
been
proven.
There's
many
documents
lacking
and-
and
I
think
we're
just
setting
our
county
up
for
a
legal
lawsuit
and
you
do
have
a
member
of
the
county
council
staff
here.
I
would
implore
you
to
ask
for
her
legal
advice
and
to
gain
that
legal
advice
to
keep
you
out
of
court,
because
I
think
that
the
residents
of
the
subdivision-
I
don't
know
if
they
were
notified.
H
I
don't
see
anybody
here,
but
it
kind
of
there's
just
a
lot
of
unknown
questions,
and
for
that
reason
I
ask
that
you
either
table
it
in
lieu
of
that.
If
the
applicant
wants
to
go
through
with
the
process,
I
see
you
deny
it
the
simple
putting
the
car
or
putting
the
cart
before
the
horse.
There's
many
missing
documents.
H
B
B
A
B
K
C
To
me
right,
there's
a
procedure
to
take
land
out
of
a
subdivision,
and
so
it's
no
longer
platted.
It's
just
unplanted
as
an
unplanted
parcel.
It
doesn't
happen
very
often,
but
maybe
once
a
year
we'll
have
an
application
where
someone
will
apply
I'll
give
you
an
example.
There
was
a
homeowners
association
who
owned
common
ground.
C
Part
of
the
common
ground
was
on
the
far
side
of
the
creek
that
they
weren't
able
to
access
and
a
neighbor
wanted
to
purchase
that,
and
so
this
was
probably
two
years
ago
that
there's
a
small
piece
of
common
ground
that
was
taken
out
of
the
subdivision
and
then
the
neighbor
next
door
purchased
that
from
the
homeowners
association
and
and
combine
that
with
their
own
lot.
So
they
can
have
a
larger
parcel,
and
so
it's
it
doesn't
go
through
the
planting
zoning
commission.
C
B
G
C
C
Typically,
when
we
make
plaque
comments
back
to
applicants
much
of
the
time,
they're
able
to
either
incorporate
those
changes
and
get
them
back
to
us
quickly
or
they
will
often,
if
they're
unable
to
do
so,
they'll
often
ask
for
the
item
to
be
tabled
and
continued
to
the
next
month.
So
normally
one
of
those
two
things
happens
either
revised
plat
is
submitted
to
us
within,
say
a
week
or
something
on
the
meeting
or
the
applicant
will
ask
that
it'd
be
table
until
the
next
month.
That's
how
it
typically
happens.
B
C
The
let's
see,
did
you
subdivide
the
parcel?
What
is
it
3b?
I'm
gonna
mix
it
up
here,
the
one
in
the
back
three
three,
a
three
to
d:
subdivide
the
parcel
3a.
It's
got
to
be
created
so
that
the
subdivision
is
contingent
upon
this
action,
but
on
the
other
hand,
if,
if
that
should
fail-
and
it
should
never
been
de-subdivided
you'll
have
these
two
parcels
that
still
exist
within
the
subdivision.
F
F
B
I
B
Would
there
be
approval
from
the
county
or
the
state
robert
county,
county,
county
okay,
so
mr
clary's
motion
is
to
approve
this
application
with
the
11
identified
conditions
set
forth
by
staff
and
then
a
12th
condition
the
driveway
entrance
being
approved
by
the
saint
charles
county
highway
department.
Is
that
your
motion,
sir?
Yes
there?
It
is.
Okay.
Is
there
a
second
exactly
mr
trump,
a
second,
mr
mcdonald?
How
do
you
vote.
L
F
B
Okay,
next
on
our
agenda
is
application.
Pre
20-23
preliminary
plot
for
saint
charles
county
ambulance
district
base
house
number
22
located
at
3807
towers,
road
owners,
terry
and
janet
hackman,
developer
of
saint
charles
county
ambulance.
District
engineer:
surveyor
is
civil
engineering
design
consultants.
Current
zoning
is
r1a
single-family
residential
district
proposed
zonings,
r1e
single-family
residential
district
proposed
lots
are
two
parcel
sizes,
1.82
acres,
the
location
is
on
the
southwest
corner
of
towers,
road
and
cox.
Hill
road
is
located
in
council
district
7
staff.
C
C
There's
there's
two
things
you
may
want
to
know
about:
they've
applied
for
a
rezoning,
because
the
the
parcel
is
split.
Zoning.
The
south
half
has
a
different
zoning
district
than
north
half,
and
so
that
resulting
application
is
now
before
the
county
council.
It's
been
introduced
as
a
bill
and
the
county
council
will
take
action
on
that
bill
later
on
this
this
month.
C
The
other
thing
that
you
may
want
to
know
about
is
that
they're
proposing
to
take
driveway
access
directly
onto
a
county
roadway-
normally
that's
not
allowed
in
a
subdivision
but
they're
asking
for
a
waiver
to
allow
driveway
access
directly
on
a
county
roadway
on
the
basis
that
the
lot
depth
isn't
really
sufficient
to
have
two
tiers
of
lots
and
to
create.
You
know
several
blocks
deep
in
this.
In
this
case,
there's
not
a
sufficient
lot
depth
to
really
allow
for
that.
C
B
L
L
L
They
are
looking
to
build
another
base
house
reduced
response
times,
and
that
kind
of
thing
so,
as
part
of
that
deal,
they
don't
want
to
purchase
more
land
than
they
need
they're
being
responsible
with
the
public
money.
So
they
they
really
just
need
a
little
under
an
acre
and
the
current
owners
wish
to
retain
the
southern
half
the
lot.
For
now,
their
home
is
immediately
adjacent
to
the
south.
L
L
We
also
have
been
looking
at
sight
distance
with
staff,
and
in
looking
at
that,
there's
just
a
little
sliver
across.
I
can
pull
up
the
side
distance.
There
is
a
little
sliver
across
the
southern
lot,
so
so,
based
on
the
requirements
for
sight
distance
that
you
have
to
show
your
car
being
so
many
feet
from
the
edge
of
the
pavement.
There's
just
a
little
sliver
right
here
that
a
car
or
ambulance
leaving
the
north
lot
would
need
to
look
slightly
across
that
south
lot
to
to
see
the
full
distance.
L
So
we
are
showing
a
sight
distance
easement
that
would
prevent
them
from
building
which
is
is
kind
of
academic,
because
it's
basically
right
on
top
of
the
sidewalk
and
only
a
couple
feet
from
the
property
line.
I
don't
know
that
they
could
build
there
anyway,
but
we
did
include
that
side,
distance
easement
on
the
revised
plat
that
we
sent
to
staff
last
week.
L
B
B
H
Record,
thank
you
very
much.
Mr
chairman,
members
of
the
planning
zoning
commission,
arne
ac
dina
public
advocate
and
resident
mailing
address,
po
box
1535
o'fallon
633.66.
First
of
all,
I'm
a
proponent
of
this
request.
The
applicant's
request
for
the
preliminary
plat
preliminary
yeah
preliminary
lot.
The
ambulance
district
makes
a
nice
product
for
their
crews.
H
H
What
are
we
going
to
do
with
the
runoff?
Is
there
a
retention
or
detention
area
planned
for
both
of
these
parcels
once
they're
split
that
runoff
to
the
south
and
to
the
west?
There's
some
subdivisions,
so
we
don't
want
to
create
unnecessary
water.
Runoff
surface
water
protections
are
in
place.
I
did
have
a
question
about
the
septic
system,
but
the
applicant
had
to
answer
that,
where
they're
going
to
install
a
sanitary
sewer
construction
and
then
the
other
requirement
is,
I
don't
see
a
plan
for
landscaping
or
the
county
tree
code
requirement.
H
H
B
B
A
B
L
L
But
we
are
trying
to
work
in
some
grass
swales
and
also
intend
to
do
what
we
can
to
to
daylight
a
couple
of
the
downspouts
and
let
them
go
across
the
grass
to
give
a
little
bit
of
an
opportunity
to
slow
down
the
water
and
and
absorb
some
of
it.
That
being
said,
it's
more
of
a
the
county
has
asked
that
we
try
to
do
this
and
we
are.
B
Okay,
thank
you
any
other
questions,
very
none.
Thank
you.
Man
we'll
now
bring
this
back
to
the
commission
for
our
consideration.
Anyone
have
any
questions.
Staff
comments,
very
nun,
sure,
will
entertain
a
motion
to
approve
application.
Number
pre
20-23
motion
motion
by
mr
hollander.
Is
there
a
second
second
second
by
mr
clary,
miss
bamer?
How
do
you
vote
yes,
mr
clary.
I
B
A
B
K
B
K
I
C
I'd
like
to
I'm
looking
forward
to
introduce
rich
necco
who's,
the
development
review
division
director
for
st
charles
county,
and,
although
you
don't
see
rich
much,
we
rich
in
his
division
in
planting
zoning-
will
work
very
very
closely
on
all
plats,
for
instance,
and
storm
water
and
all
sorts
of
issues.
Erosion,
control
and
rich
can
explain
that
much
better
detail
than
I
can.
B
M
So
with
that
again,
I
appreciate
your
the
opportunity
and
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
stormwater
I'll,
try
and
keep
it
as
quickly
as
possible
for
you.
I
know
we
had
some
long
hearings
tonight.
If
you
have
any
questions,
please
feel
free
to
stop
me
at
any
time.
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
of
your
questions.
M
M
Basically,
the
federal
government
was
using
these
to
dredge
our
harbors,
make
sure
our
navigable
waterways
were
safe
to
travel
in
they're,
dredging
them
keeping
the
channels
cleared,
and
the
the
big
part
that
I
wanted
to
get
about.
This
was
is
that
the
federal
government
was
challenged
in
several
occasions
during
the
1800s
and
1900s
about
whether
they
have
the
jurisdiction
to
spend
tax
money.
M
M
The
industry
was
all
that
that
didn't
really
catch
up
until
1972,
but
we
started
looking
at
these
point,
discharges
that
we
were
discharging
into
the
river
and
became
concerned
about
those
and
how
we
were
managing
that
and
polluting
our
waterways,
but
in
72
the
big
one
came,
and
that
was
the
clean
water
act,
which
is
actually
just
an
amendment
to
that
water
pollution
control
act
and
that
you
may
remember
in
1972
the
cuyahoga
river
catching
on
fire.
Actually,
that
was
in
70..
M
M
The
water
quality
act
of
1987,
basically
their
approach
to
trying
to
address
cleaning
up
our
waters.
They
created
this
national
pollutant
discharge,
elimination
system,
there's
a
lot
of
acronyms
in
this
stuff
too.
So
if
you
have
any
questions,
please
ask,
but
they
created
this
system-
national,
pollutant
discharge,
elimination
system
in
87.
They
revised
that
to
take
a
two-phased
approach
to
storm
water
pollution
and
regulation.
M
There
were
many
other
amendments
of
the
clean
water
act.
I
won't
go
through
them
tonight.
I
got
another
45
minute:
power
presentation,
powerpoint
presentation
on
the
clean
water
act,
but
the
two-phased
approach
that
I'm
talking
about
started
with
the
phase
one
dischargers
and
this
started
in
1992
and
essentially
they're
starting
to
go
after
the
industrial
dischargers,
the
stormwater
treatment
plants,
the
large,
what
we
call
ms4s,
which
are
municipal,
separate
storm
sewer
systems.
So
a
lot
of
communities
have
combined
sewer
systems.
M
The
city
of
st
louis
has
that,
where
you
are
putting
your
storm
water
into
the
same
system
that
you're
putting
your
sanitary
sewage
in
and
it
all
goes
to
a
treatment
plant
and
get
cleans
up
cleaned
up,
except
when
you
have
too
much
water
in
it
and
then
it
discharges-
and
we
have
a
problem
with
the
discharge
of
that
the
county
doesn't
have
that
problem,
but
most
of
the
large
larger
communities
and
older
communities
do
so.
Those
were
all
regulated
as
point
dischargers
and
under
phase
one.
M
The
the
point
source
is
clear:
it's
coming
out
of
the
end
of
a
pipe
or
some
someone's
pipe
in
industry
or
at
the
water
plant,
or
it
comes
out
in
the
form
of
sludge
that
they're
trying
to
get
rid
of
and
those
actually
have
qualitative
or
quantitative
requirements.
You
can
only
put
out
so
much
effluent,
there's
certain
requirements
in
the
sewage
treatment
plants
as
to
how
much
phosphorus
you
can
release
how
much
fecal,
coliform
and
e
coli
and
whatnot.
So
they
have
quantitative
sampling
requirements.
M
So
the
county
is
a
phase
two
non-point
source
discharger
and
when
they've
referred
a
nine
point,
source
they're
talking
about
water,
that's
falling
on
your
rooftop
and
on
your
driveway
and
on
your
front
lawn
and
maybe
you've
fertilized
your
lawn
too
much
and
now
we're
washing
chemicals
off
of
that,
but
that
all
washes
into
the
street
that
washes
under
our
storm
sewer.
That
does
not
go
to
a
storm
or
a
water
waste
water
treatment
plant
that
gets
discharged
directly
into
our
rivers.
So
that's
the
need
to
to
identify
that
pollutant
source.
M
So
kind
of
the
way
this
is
handed
down
to
us
is
that
the
united
states
epa
is
the
federal
agency.
That's
managing
the
clean
water
act,
they
have
delegated
some
of
their
responsibilities
and
they
tried
to
do
all
the
stormwater
permitting
to
the
states.
Not
all
of
the
states
have
a
program,
but
most
of
them
do
now.
They've
come
a
long
way
since
the
80s.
M
M
M
M
M
M
What
the
what
the?
What
the
clean
water
act
says
about.
Non-Point
dischargers
is,
you
need
to
have
a
storm
water
management
plan
and
program
put
in
place
and
you
have
to
be
running
it
the
way
you
say,
you're
running
it
and
it
has
to
address
these
six
minimum
control
measures
to
the
maximum
extent
practicable.
M
So
so
we
don't
have
any
kind
of
quantitative
standards.
We
have
maximum
extent
practicable
and
the
state
of
missouri
missouri
department
of
nature,
natural
resources
deciding
that
maximum
extent
practicable.
So
we
have
to
address
these
six
minimum
control
measures
in
our
storm
water
plan
and
they
have
more
requirements
than
just
these
vague
general
categories.
M
But
but
these
are
the
six
public
education
and
outreach
which
is
kind
of
what
we're
doing
tonight,
but
we
do
want.
We
do
have
a
whole
program
where
we
go
teach
younger
children
we
go.
Do
outreach
to
our
to
adults?
We've
got
stream
teams,
things
like
that,
so
we
do
try
to
and
all
of
these
work
together
too,
because
when
we
do
have
problems
with
illicit
discharge,
which
is
number
three,
the
first
thing
we
try
to
do
is
provide
education
and
why
you
know
this
is
what
we
found.
M
This
is
why
you
shouldn't
be
doing
this.
This
is
what
this
affects,
rather
than
go
straight
to
enforcement
on
stuff
like
this
number
two
is
public
involvement
and
participation.
This
again
is
some
of
it,
but
more
than
anything
we
want
to
try
and
get
the
public
involved
in
our
stormwater
management
plan
and
the
regulations
that
we're
adopting
illicit
discharge,
detection
and
elimination.
M
We
do
have
some
industrial
and
commercial
where
we
have
to
do
this
similar
things,
but
we
have
to
have
a
program
to
address
that
and
enforce
that
construction
site,
storm
water,
runoff
control
developers
going
out
and
building
streets,
subdividing
property.
What
you
guys
are
involved
with
here,
while
that's
all
under
construction.
They
have
to
protect
that
property
and
we
have
rules
and
we
have
regulations
for
inspection
and
enforcement
actions
for
all
of
that.
M
The
fifth
one
is
what
we'll
be
talking
about
for
the
rest
of
this
evening
and
that's
post
construction,
storm
water
management
and
new
development
and
redevelopment,
and
that's
probably,
where
we're
a
little
bit
lacking,
or
at
least
that's
what
the
state
says,
and
so
that's
why
we're
here
tonight
and
the
sixth
one
is
pollution
prevention,
good
housekeeping
for
municipal
operations,
so
the
county
highway
department
has
several
facilities
where
they
have
trucks
and
salt
salt
piles
and
things
like
that.
Our
county
facilities
has
several
facilities
like
that.
M
M
These
are
some
of
our
concerns
and
and
our
solutions
for
it,
but
essentially
over
95
percent
of
our
storm
events,
go
undetained
with
stormwater
tension,
which
were
a
lot
of
the
questions
tonight
and
untreated
and
are
discharged
directly
into
our
pond
streams
and
rivers,
causing
pollution,
erosion
and
flooding
to
our
natural
systems
and
to
private
property
and-
and
we
were
audited
in
2018
by
mdnr
for
our
stormwater
management
program.
We
did
a.
M
We
did
pretty
well
in
that
audit,
but
they
did
find
our
post-construction
storm
water
management
program,
namely
our
structural
bmps,
for
trying
to
clean
up
our
storm
water
and
and
reducing
the
volume
of
our
storm
water,
we're
not
being
addressed
to
the
maximum
extent
practicable
practicable,
which
is
what
they
felt.
So
what
we
are
now
trying
to
do
is
create
new
ordinances,
revise
our
ordinances,
create
new
design
criteria.
That's
going
to
address
this
water
quality
in
addition
to
the
storm
water,
runoff
rate
that
we
already
have
standards
for.
M
Our
cities
are
we're
a
little
behind
in
this
area.
Our
cities
have
already
adopted
ordinances
like
this
saint,
charles
county,
st
louis
city.
Msd,
basically,
is
covering
a
lot
of
the
st
louis
area
have
adopted
similar
ordinances
to
this,
but
basically
they're.
Looking
at
a
nested
approach
where
they're
looking
at
water
they're
looking
at
treating
water
quality
volume,
channel
protection
volume
and
the
peak
flood
peak
protection,
which
is
what
the
county
currently
does,
but
not
the
ones
in
red.
M
These
are
some
of
the
basically.
The
other
cities
have
adopted
standards
from
other
agencies.
The
county
basically
has
done
the
same,
only
we're
putting
it
in
our
own
words
and
form,
but
most
of
our
stuff
is
coming
from
the
georgia
storm
water
manual.
We
also
use
some
of
the
manual
stormwater
manual
and
some
of
the
other
municipalities
from
the
area,
our
our
outreach
on
this
and
trying
to
create
these
ordinances
and
trying
to
create
this
new
design
criteria
and
this
new
regulations
we
wanted
to
work
with
the
development
community.
M
We
wanted
to
work
with
the
soil
and
water
conservation
commission.
We
wanted
to
work
with
all
kinds
of
different
stakeholders
in
the
county.
The
agricultural
community
is
a
big
part
of
this
county.
They've
made
several
complaints
about
some
of
the
drainage
issues.
That's
going
on
in
the
southeastern
part
of
the
county.
M
So
we
had
design
people,
we
had
construction
people,
we
had
people
that
looked
at
the
long-term
maintenance
of
these
to
try
and
help
us
draft
the
best
regulations
that
we
could
and
from
this
the
group
established
these
goals.
We
wanted
to
encourage
and
incentivize
the
use
of
non-structural
bmps
as
much
as
possible
to
reduce
the
need
for
these
structural
ones.
So
the
non-structural
best
management
practices
are
things
that
I
think
the
county
has
done.
A
very
good
job
on
over
the
years.
We
do
preserve
buffers
around
streams.
M
M
So
those
go
a
long
way
into
intercepting
storm
water,
treating
storm
water
and
we've
offered
a
lot
of
credits
and
and
rather
rather
than
create
more
regulation
and
more
buffer
requirements.
We've
incentives
incentivized
the
developer
to
increase
that
buffer
area.
So
we
require
25
feet
around
most
of
our
buffers.
If
you
want
to
go
to
30
you're
going
to
get
a
credit
for
that,
and
that's
going
to
reduce
your
need
for
the
structural
bmps,
it
will
reduce,
reduce
the
volume
of
treatment
you
have
to
have.
M
We
wanted
to
be
flexible
in
our
design,
so
we
have
allowed.
While
we
do
have
our
standards
and
we
have
standards
that
they'll
have
to
meet.
We
do
allow
bmps
from
other
municipalities,
other
agencies
that
have
been
approved
by
dnr
or
the
or
u.s
epa.
So
we're
trying
to
allow
multiple
agency
or
use
of
multiple,
multiple
designs
to
achieve
this
as
much
as
possible.
M
So
these
are
the
things
that
we
are
doing
now
on
the
left
side.
As
I
said,
I
think
the
county's
done
a
really
good
job
of
doing
the
non-structural
bmps
throughout
the
year.
I
think
we've
avoided
a
lot
of
the
need
for
the
structural
things,
but
we
still
have
problems
and
staff
recognizes
that
what
we
have
done
is
to
try
to
beef
up
some
of
these
non-structural
bmps.
I'm
sorry,
the
green
didn't
come
out
very
well
in
this,
but
we're
still
gonna
we're
still
leaving
all
these
ones
on
the
left
and
the
same.
M
Open
channel
design
can
be
done,
the
same
way
if
it's
spread
out
and
we
have
small
depths
of
flow
and
slow
small
slopes
and
then,
if
they
use
environmentally
sensitive
design,
where
they
are
trying
to
do
a
lot
of
open
space
and
tree
preservation.
Clustering
lots
things
like
that:
there'll
be
credits
for
that
as
well.
So
all
of
these
things
on
the
right
now
will
help
you
reduce
your
structural
bmp
requirements.
M
What
we
are
changing,
though,
is
that
basically,
we
only
have
the
boxes
circled
in
green
and
yellow
are
what
we're
providing
today
so
we're
providing
storm
water
management
for
these
really
large
storm
events.
We
start
at
the
two-year
24-hour
event
and
the
10-year
24-hour
event.
The
two-year
event
equates
to
about
three
and
a
half
inches
of
rainfall
over
24
hours
and
the
10-year
one
we're
getting
up
to
about
4.8
or
so
so
we're
we're
handling
large
storms.
M
Those
are
smaller
events
that
are
probably
running
through
our
detention
facilities
now
without
being
treated
at
all.
We're
probably
not
even
detaining
that,
because
the
the
the
amount
of
rainfall
so
small,
so
I
think
that's
a
good
graphic
to
show
you
what
we
are
doing
and
what
we're
proposing
to
do.
M
And
so
just
number
wise,
I'm
an
engineer
I
realize.
Probably
most
of
you
aren't
and
I've
got
pictures
of
these,
but
these
are
the
differences
currently
we're
only
looking
at
that
two
two-year
and
10-year
event.
For
some
of
these
smaller
storm
events
smaller
sites,
we
do
let
them
look
at
the
20-year
event
and
we
have
different
rain
events
for
that.
M
But
what
we
are
going
to
propose
now
is
that
you
do
have
to
provide
water
quality
treatment
for
the
first
1.14
1.14
inches
of
rainfall
and
the
1.14
inches
of
rainfall
is
an
odd
number,
but
essentially
that
covers
90
percent
of
all
the
stormwater
events
that
fall
in
our
area
on
an
annual
basis.
So
90
of
all
of
our
rainfall
events
are
either
1.14
inches
or
less.
M
The
second
thing
that
we
are
we're
wanting
to
add
to
the
what
into
the
stormwater
management
is
channel
protection
and
so
we're
gonna
we're
proposing
an
extended
detention
of
the
one-year
storm
event
and
that's
a
2.8
inch
rainfall
over
24
hours.
So
it's
a
little
bit
bigger,
but
those
are
the
kind
of
events
that
eventually
form
our
channels.
Those
are
events
we
get
once
or
twice
a
year.
They
have
enough
velocity.
Those
are
the
channel
forming
events.
Those
are
the
events
that
are
about
to
get
over
the
overbank
and
start
flooding
our
streams.
M
M
However,
we're
going
to
get
rid
of
the
two-year
event,
since
we
now
have
that
one-year
24-hour
storm
and
that
water
and
that
extended
detention
gets
put
out
a
very
small
opening.
It
gets
put
out
into
the
channel
over
a
24-hour
period
or
48
hour
period,
so
you're
slowly
releasing
that
water
back
into
the
stream,
we're
reducing
that
velocity
and
we're
reducing
that
rate
of
runoff.
M
M
Nothing
changes
there.
So
this
is
kind
of
what
you
would
see.
Now
if
you
looked
in
the
county
subdivision
development,
the
one
on
the
left
is
a
dry
detention
basin.
We
had
concrete
swales
in
them,
we're
not
doing
that
anymore
either.
We
want
to
try
and
soak
this
water
into
the
ground,
so
we're
not
allowing
concrete
swales
anymore.
M
We
have
been
installing,
for
the
last
two
or
three
years,
putting
amended
soils
in
the
ground
putting
underdrains
in
there,
I'm
also
putting
in
native
vegetation
in
some
of
these,
but
most
of
them
are
turf
grass,
but
that
at
least
is
going
to
allow
that
water
to
soak
back
into
the
ground.
It'll
treat
some
of
those
smaller
storm
events,
but
at
the
end
of
the
storm,
when
you've
got
to
go
back
in
and
mow
the
turf
grass
again.
M
Hopefully
it's
not
going
to
stay
wet
at
the
bottom
and
you'll
get
good
drainage
in
that
the
one
on
the
right
is
something
you'd
be
seeing
similar
in
the
county.
Also,
if
you
had
a
wet
detention
basin,
but
essentially
you
can
see
those
outflow
structures,
the
one
on
the
left
there's
a
small
opening
on
the
bottom
at
the
top.
M
You
probably
can't
see
it,
but
there's
a
larger
opening
for
that
10-year,
so
that
smaller
one's
taking
that
two-year
event
the
upper
one's
taking
that
10-year
event
and
once
you
get
into
the
top
and
start
overflowing,
that's
taking
those
events
that
are
larger
than
that
and
that
whole
basin
will
take
a
100
year
storm
event.
So
we
we
do
require
that
we
don't
require
the
detention
of
the
hunter
storm
event,
but
the
basin
has
to
be
able
to
pass
it
safely
back
into
the
natural
waterway.
M
What
you'll
see
now
and
hopefully
you'll
see
these
all
in
one
system,
but
if
you
see
them
by
themselves,
this
is
what
you
would
expect
to
see
for
water
quality
and
probably
two
ways
that
we're
going
to
try
and
control
volume
in
this
county
is
we're
either
going
to
try
and
soak
water
into
the
ground
and,
as
probably
all
of
you
know,
we've
got
clay
soils
once
you
get
down.
12
13,
12,
16
inches
got
mostly
clay,
so
it's
going
to
be
hard
to
get
rid
of
that
water.
M
So
these
are
typical.
These
are
newly
planted.
Hopefully
they'll
look
better
than
that
as
they
move
on,
but
you
can
see
the
structure
in
the
center
on
the
right
is
sitting
higher
than
the
rest
of
the
basin.
So
that's
designed
to
carry
that
volume
of
storm
water
in
and
and
infiltrate
it
in
through
there
and
filter
that
water
out
and
then,
when
it
gets
so
high.
It's
going
to
go
out
that
pipe
that
you
see
in
the
in
the
background
and
underneath
that
road.
M
What
I
like
on
the
one
on
the
left
too,
is
that
there's
the
rv
storage
lot
over
on
the
right
and
all
the
water
from
this
all
the
drainage
from
this
lot
and
all
the
petroleum
and
all
the
other
stuff
that
comes
with
the
storage
of
these
vehicles
ends
up
draining
into
this.
So
it's
being
treated
in
that
before
it's
being
released,
but
you
can
see
a
nice
grass
filter
between
that
nice,
white,
vinyl
fence
and
this
facility.
M
So
that's
helping
keeping
that
facility
from
being
eroding
the
big
thing
about
these
things
is:
if
we
start
getting
clay
sediments
in
them,
they
clog
up,
and
then
they
got
to
be
redone
because
they
won't
pass
water
through
them
anymore.
So
that's
a
really
good
design
there
another
another
one
I
thought
was
interesting
is
this:
is
world
outdoor
emporium
off
highway
94.
M
M
To
incorporate
that
into
their
facility
and
help
market
their
products,
while
they're
doing
this,
which
we
love,
we
love
that
kind
of
stuff
and
and
one
picture
I
don't
have
here
that
you'll
probably
see
a
lot
of
is
underground
stuff,
especially
for
commercial
lots
where
the
the
price
of
the
ground
is
very
expensive
and
they
don't
want
to
waste
every
any
bit
of
that
ground.
So
you'll
probably
see
some
of
this
stuff,
that's
being
designed
underground.
M
For
channel
protection-
and
I
apologize
that
these
slides
aren't
bigger,
but
this
is
that
extended
detention.
These
are
some
of
the
different
structures
you'll
see,
but
this
is
probably
the
one
that's
preferred,
because
the
normal
pool
of
water
is
going
to
be
up
here.
That's
where
it's
got
to
come
out
of
the
structure
so
that
small
little
pipe.
M
That's
letting
that
water
out
really
slowly,
that
we
talked
about
for
that
one
year,
storm
event
over
a
24-48
hour
period,
that's
protected
from
getting
a
bunch
of
debris
on
it
and
stuff,
and
these
are
going
to
be
smaller
openings.
So
this
we
like
this
design
the
best,
but
we're
going
to
again
we're
going
to
allow
flexibility
we're
going
to
allow
a
lot
of
different
options.
M
Some
of
these
have
hoods
over
them
like
this.
One
does
right
here,
although
you
can't
see
it
very
well
from
the
drawing
some
are
protected.
That
way,
we'll
also
use
different,
weird
shapes
that
that
allow
v-shaped
weirs
as
they
go
up
are
going
to
allow
more
water
to
go
out,
but
not
much
at
the
very
bottom.
M
M
This
is
going
to
provide
your
water
quality
and
your
extended
detention.
The
flow
of
that
water
is
coming
from
the
storm
sewer
and
the
low
flows
are
diverted
into
here.
Where
they're
going
to
be
cleaned
up
in
a
four-bay
they're
going
to
go
into
this
area,
that's
mod
with
the
modified
soils
and
the
under
drains.
M
This
one's
all
in
one
and
it's
kind
of
stacked,
on
top
of
each
other,
so
you're
getting
the
you're
getting
that
water
quality
volume
down
below
and
it's
going
to
be
planted
and
then
you're
going
to
get
that
extended
detention
up
above
with
another
opening
in
this
structure
and
then
above
that,
you're
going
to
get
that
that
those
larger
storm
events
being
passed
through
there.
So
that's
kind
of
the
goal
that
we're
hoping
for
to
see
it
all
in
one
shot.
M
M
So
I
think
these
facilities
are
going
to
be
more
beneficial
to
us
ones
that
can
that
can
hold
the
water
and
evaporate
it
more
so
than
the
ones
that
are
trying
to
infiltrate
it.
I
think
we'll
just
get
more
filtration,
that
way,
which
is
fine,
we're
cleaning
the
water,
but
we're
not
actually
getting
ready
in
the
vault
getting
rid
of
the
volume
of
water.
M
I
don't
think
it
would,
I
I
don't
think
it
would
you're
gonna
you
kind
of
have
this
now
on
this
one
here,
but
you're
gonna
use
that
bench
area
for
water
quality
which
it's
not
designed
for
now.
So
I
I
think
you
could
probably
do
that.
I'm
not
saying
it
won't
be
the
exact
footprint,
but
I
don't
think
it
would
be
much
larger,
but
certainly,
if
you're
going
to
try
and
do
these
in
three
different
facilities.
Yes,
that
footprint
is
going.
M
Well
again,
the
way
we've
the
way
we've
tried
to
write
the
ordinance
and
the
way
we
tried
to
write
the
design
criteria
is
the
eff
the
emphasis
that
the
initial
part
of
the
design
of
the
development
is
to
look
at
these
non-structural
bmps.
Look
at
these
conservation
things
you
already
have
on
your
site,
try
to
preserve
as
much
as
you
can,
and
this
is
going
to
reduce
your
need
for
this
type
of
thing
and
that's
going
to
reduce
your
footprint
for
that
type
of
thing.
I
F
M
Other
nutrients,
but
we
don't
have
any
plans
for
that
at
this
point
in
time
and
you
and
you
do
see
that
this
does
have
a
little
problem
with
nutrients.
Although
a
lot
of
that's
duckweed,
it's
not
just
algae,
but
you
can
expect
that,
since
all
the
backyards
of
this
dump
into
here-
and
actually
this
is
where
one
of
the
storm
sewer
pipes
dumps
out
and
we've
got
that
that's
so
well
established
in
plants.
There's
no
erosion,
there's
no
problem
here
at
all.
What
I
would
say
is
that
you
got
a
lot
of.
M
Yeah,
the
reed
canary
grass,
the
cattails-
those
aren't-
I
wouldn't
say
those
are
the
highest
and
best
aquatic
plant
that
you'd
want
to
have
around
there.
I
think
they
could
do
a
better
job
with
plant
selection
and
then
again,
maintenance
is
going
to
be
required
on
all
these
and
we'll
get
into
that
in
a
little
bit
too.
M
M
Essentially,
the
water
quality
is
going
to
start
being
required
when
you
get
to
one
acre
of
land
disturbance
on
a
new
development
or
redevelopment
the
extended
storm
water
detention
that
one
year
detention
is
going
to
be
required
when
you
get
into
a
certain
storm.
Water,
differential
and
they'll
have
to
do
a
study
to
show
that,
but
basically
you're
going
to
start
getting
enough
impervious
surface
that
you're
creating
enough
storm
water,
runoff
differential
in
your
new
development
that
that
will
be
required.
M
We
are
also
amending
the
esc
performance
guarantee
section
to
include
that
for
the
storm
water
quality
bmp.
So
we
don't
have
to
create
another
instrument
to
do
this
with
and
we
can
release
them
all
out
of
the
sediment
and
erosion
control,
storm
water
performance
guarantee-
and
there
will
now
be
in
as
we
require
these
anyway
as
builds,
but
we
did
never
have
it
in
the
ordinance.
So
now
it's
officially
in
the
ordinance
and
again
there
needs
to
be
an
agreement
for
long-term
preservation
and
maintenance
of
these
bmps.
M
We
have
this
document
we've
been
putting
these
in
for
years,
even
though
we
don't
have
regulations
for
them.
We've
been
trading
some
of
the
smaller
stuff
off
for
storm
water,
detention
on
smaller
sites
sites
and
people
have
been
volunteering
to
put
them
in,
as
we've
been
asking
for
it
too.
So
we
have
created
a
document
and
we
do
require
the
recording
of
the
document.
We
require
the
engineer
to
provide
a
maintenance
plan
for
whatever
they're,
providing
as
that
structural
bmp
or
the
non-structural
bmp,
there's
a
schedule
for
maintenance.
They
have
to
follow.
M
There's
a
easement
on
there,
that's
preserving
the
the
storm
water
management
facility
in
its
perpetuity,
and
it
also
gives
the
county
right
the
right
to
go
in
there
and
inspect
it
and
to
make
sure
that
it's
being
preserved
and
maintained-
and
we
do
have
a
section
in
the
ordinance
that
requires
this
too
and
I'll
get
to
that
in
a
little
bit
section.
410
is
our
subdivision
subdivision
development
ordinance
section
again.
This
will
now
be
required
for
subdivision
development.
M
I
M
When
the
subdivision
improvement
plans
come
to
my
division
for
review,
and
now
we've
got
we've
gone
from
conceptual
to
detailed
improvement
plans.
We
make
sure
that
that
continues
on
when
that
goes
to
record
plat
and
when
it
goes
to
starting
to
develop
on
building
lots,
it
goes
back
to
planting
and
zoning
and
they
make
sure
that
the
tree
preservation
ordinance
is
still
being
upheld.
So,
yes,
we
do.
We
do
this
throughout.
I
I
M
M
M
The
hba
hasn't
seemed
to
had
a
problem
with
that,
if
you
get
to
that
one
acre
of
land
disturbance,
but
we
are
also
proposing
that
you
have
to
provide
that
storm
water
detention
if
you
have
a
runoff
differential
from
a
15
year,
storm
event
of
5
cfs,
so
the
hbas
had
a
little
bit
more
problem
with
that.
We're
discussing
the
reasons
why,
with
that,
we've
also
offered
a
whole
lot
for
those
larger
lot.
M
Developments,
we've
offered
a
whole
lot
more
credits
for
them
to
the
point
that
if
they
did
that
they
probably
wouldn't
need
the
storm
water
detention
anymore,
if
they
did
that
or
even
if
they
just
preserved
the
natural
conservation
features
that
are
already
on
the
site.
So
a
lot
of
those
are
in
agricultural
development
right
that
we're
getting
for
those
and
those
a
lot
of
those
have
natural
water.
M
I
mean
they
have
they'll,
have
grass
waterways,
they'll,
have
ponds,
they'll
have
buffers
along
their
water
courses,
they'll,
contour
and
put
terraces
in
on
their
farms,
so
they
have
natural.
I
mean
they
have
soil
conservation
features
that
are
being
removed
by
the
development,
and
you
know
sometimes
they
may
generate
more
runoff.
Sometimes
they
may
not.
M
I
M
We
had
that
in
there
and
we
had
like
a
half
acre
of
impervious
surface
for
the
need
for
extended
storm
water,
detention
and
peak.
The
hba
had
a
problem
with
that
and
didn't
see
that
need,
since
we
already
had
the
one
acre
land
disturbance
threshold
and
when
we
went
back
and
looked
at
a
lot
of
our
projects,
we
agreed
with
them.
There
was
only
a
couple
of
them
that
would
have
slid
into
that
spot.
So
I
think
we're
getting
most
of
these.
I
don't
yeah.
I
don't
see
a
need
to
do
something
to
that.
M
Try
and
finish
up
quickly
for
you,
but
we
are
creating
a
whole
new
section
in
the
design
criteria
for
stormwater
management,
section
70.,
section
50
that
was
in
there
now
covered
the
storm
water
management
and
the
conveyance
of
storm
water.
So
our
storm
water
pipes
have
to
be
so
big,
and
this
is
how
they
got
to
be
designed
and
our
inlets
have
to
be
so
big,
and
this
is
how
they
got
to
be
designed.
So
we
kind
of
split
those
apart
now
and
put
the
storm
water
management
into
section
70..
M
We've
got
the
design
standards
that
you
have
to
meet
for
these
three
storm
water
management
conditions
we
have
required.
Whoops
keep
doing
it.
We
have
requirements
for
bmp
preservation
and
maintenance,
so,
like
we
said
on
the
commercial
site
plans
they're
going
to
have
to
have
a
deed
restriction
that
gets
recorded
on
on
the
property,
with
the
maintenance
schedule
and
whatnot
and
subdivision
developments.
M
That'll
be
part
of
the
subdivision,
trust
and
dentures,
so
it'll
become
part
of
that
we
have,
like
you
said,
were
our
strategy
at
the
front
of
book
was
to
stress
these
non-structural
bmps
as
much
as
possible,
and
then
we
don't
have
to
have
these
structural
ones
or
as
much
of
them
again.
You
know
someone's
got
to
build
all
these
or
someone's
got
to
build
these
structural
ones
and
someone's
got
to
maintain
them.
So
we'd
like
to
reduce
the
amount
of
these
as
much
as
possible,
and
then
we
have
to
inspect
them.
M
The
last
part
of
the
design
criteria
will
be
technical
design
guidelines
and
again
you
know
we're
going
to
have
our
own
that
are
in
there
but,
as
I
said
earlier,
we're
going
to
be
flexible,
we're
going
to
allow
the
use
of
other
agencies
design
guidelines
as
long
as
they
meet
our
design
standards.
That
we've
said
at
the
front
of
that
book.
M
M
And
this
is
kind
of
where
we
are
now
so
we
we
had
stakeholder
technical,
peer
reviews
over
preliminary
and
final
well.
We
haven't
had
the
final
draft
yet,
but
the
preliminary
draft
we
just
had
the
30-day
public
comment
period
for
our
final
draft.
We
had
not.
We
had
advertised
that
on
our
website
and
all
of
our
communications
and
the
county.
M
Newsletters
didn't
get
a
big
response
to
that,
but
we
we
did
advertise
it
we'll
do
a
better
job
when
we
start
working
on
our
stormwater
management
plan
for
our
next
permit,
which
is
next
year,
but
that
was
a
link
to
the
site
september.
14Th
was
the
end
of
the
public
comment
period.
We
are
still
taking
public
comments
and
we
will
until
we
get
this
drafted.
M
M
I
M
What
a
lot
of
this
will
be,
what
will
be
required
on
a
lot
of
these
is
you'll
have
to
have
a
forebay
for
when
you
have
significant
amount
of
flow
coming
into
these,
so
hopefully
that
forebay
is
going
to
filter
out
a
lot
of
that
stuff
and
especially
the
bigger
stuff,
okay,
and
that
will
be
easier
to
clean
out
than
the
whole
thing,
but
you're
right
over
time.
That's.