St. Mary's County, MD Board of Appeals for St. Mary's County, 18 Nov 2021

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From YouTube: 11/18/21 Board of Appeals of St. Mary's County

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A

Wayne madinsky lynn, delahaye and again, I'm dan igniewski good evening, rich richardson guy bradley.

B

uh Good evening, steve scott board attorney and also with us in the audience is our alternate.

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Member mr ronald payne supporting staff is here tonight um and uh or via zoom in the.

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Meeting room uh harry knight, deputy director from lugham stacy, clements, planner, 3, with land use and.

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Growth management, supporting staff in attendance via zoom or dave weiskopf, but dave is here also.

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Neil murphy- and I think neil is here also john hauser assistant, county attorney.

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And donnie mills, deputy director of department of public works and transportation.

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In the v in the media, control room is alex huseman, who is the media producer tonight.

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In the savage conference room, sherry young is the board of appeals. Recording secretary.

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And then the applicants and the right representatives and speakers.

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To be in attendance via room and we'll go over those when each of the cases comes up.

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We have two public hearing cases tonight on the agenda this evening case. One is cuap 19-131-021.

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Sloan, gravel mine and then the second case is vaap21003.

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Toyota of southern maryland, before we start the hearing for these.

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Cases we're going to and for our viewers at home.

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You will be able to see the staff and applicants presentation on channel 95 or youtube as these.

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Presentations are being shown. You can also see all the documents that have been submitted for.

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The case by going to board docs ms clements will now demonstrate how to locate and use board talks.

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Okay good evening.

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The website is saintmariesmd.com, that's s-t-m-a-r-y-s-m-d,.

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Dot-Com, we will view the ribbon on the right-hand side. We have a tab for board docs.

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It'll take a moment for it to load up it's a large program.

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And once it's loaded, we will look for tonight's meeting, which is the fourth meeting.

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Down highlighted thursday november 18 2021 board of appeals meeting you click on that.

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You go to the middle and we want to say view the agenda and, on the left hand, side will be our.

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Agenda for this evening and in order to see all of the attachments that will be presented tonight,.

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You would click on the public hearings under number. Four. It will show the attachments in the.

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Center pane and all the attachments will be here. Okay, thank you. Stacy.

A

You're welcome, as I mentioned earlier, the first case tonight will be cuap19131021.

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Sloan, gravel mine and just as a brief uh recap, the initial public meeting.

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For this case was on july 8 2021., however, that was cancelled due to a tropical storm and poor.

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Driving conditions in that on that date, the case was rescheduled to august 19.

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2021 and that meeting was also rescheduled until to a continuance until september, 16 2021.

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um At that meeting on september 16 2021 the meeting was cancelled or postponed.

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Until october 14 2021 per the saint mary's county attorney's office request.

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And then that meeting on the 14th of october was continued uh until to this night me, tonight's.

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Meeting because of technical difficulties and we're going to rehear public hearing or.

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Listen to any additional comments that people may have this evening.

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As a brief recap as to where we are and what the project entails, I'm going to ask.

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Chris longmore, the attorney for the applicant to come in and give us a brief presentation.

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Thank you, mr chairman, and members of the board for the record. I'm chris longmore, I'm the attorney.

D

Here tonight, representing the applicant with this conditional use approval, as the board will recall.

D

For the benefit of those watching tonight we did begin the hearing on the last hearing.

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Date in october, and at that time we had several members of our team that presented to the board.

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About the project, I believe all those members are here tonight um just so so the board is.

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Aware in case there's, questions that arise from the public comment that will be given today.

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In the room with us tonight is barry vuckmer, who prepared the site plan and testified.

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At the beginning of the last hearing, we also have um virtually on the zoom call.

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Mr curtis grace from sloan materials, we have two folks from traffic concepts, both of whom.

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Testified last time mark keeley and john mayer jay hopson, an engineer with hobson consulting is also.

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Available through zoom tonight, if there's any questions he's handled some of the sediment.

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Erosion issues with the project and is one of the engineers on the project and mr eddie sloan.

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I understand is either here or on his way tonight. Randall sloan is also was also here last time. He.

D

Was unavailable to be here tonight in person, but eddie salon, one of the owners of the property.

D

Is here will be here and again the we're here asking for a conditional use approval.

D

The we think that the record is very clear: there were some technical difficulties last time um the.

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Meeting was recorded and available on youtube um and through other means, and that video has been up.

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On youtube, since the last hearing night, we checked it. I believe the next day just to remind the board.

D

And and kind of highlight briefly uh for the board, the testimony began in our case with mr buckmer.

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Who shared that the project had gone through the tec review in october of 2019? The mining permit.

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For the surface mine, that's being requested, was approved pending board of appeals, approval.

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And he shared the concept site plan, which is in the record, and we have available should.

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Should the board of the public need to see any aspects of that tonight? Mr curtis grist.

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Then testified with sloan materials and shared from his perspective, the importance of being.

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Able to to mine these types of materials within our community because of the needs.

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Within our community for them, he also, as the board will recall, talked about how determining where to.

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Put a gravel mine is really dependent on where the gravel is and commented on the one of the primary.

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Goals of the rural preservation district, where this property is located, includes.

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The promotion of extractive industry, including mining, he also talked about concerns that were.

D

Raised in some of the public testimony about dust and shared with us, the controls that sloan.

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Materials will have on site, including a water tanker truck, to help minimize any dust that.

D

That is generated from their property. One of the other comments that I found kind of poignant was.

D

Sharing that the trucks that are used in this and used by slow materials.

D

Contribute approximately 200 000 a year in taxes on those trucks uh on the roads, so the you know.

D

They're certainly, um my client is very aware of the concerns that citizens are raising about.

D

Traffic! That's why we have um mr keeley and mr mayor here. um They answer any of those questions.

D

But that I think, demonstrates um how much this particular app applicant contributes.

D

Those fees which are in support of public roads and other public materials um we did have mark.

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Keeley testify for track traffic concepts. um I know the slides are in the record that showed.

D

um He discussed the traffic and sight lines for some of the the primary testimony he had.

D

He also shared with the board and the public um the route that the trucks would take, um leaving.

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The the mine turning left onto morganza turner, road right onto route 235, then onto route 247.

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To the wash plant that's located on route 5 and then it will return back to the site back.

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Through to 47 and busy corner road to morganza turner again- and mr mayor also testified as the.

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One that helped to prepare the written letter- that's in that's in the record, um all of our.

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Presentation materials are on board docs, the the powerpoint is on there as well. If any of.

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The public is watching tonight and wants to to access them, and I believe I asked last time but.

D

We'd ask that all the materials that the applicant has submitted be made part of the record and.

D

We look forward to hearing more public comment tonight and look forward to providing a summary.

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At the end of that comment tonight, so we're available for questions that the board has any.

D

But again we're we're looking forward to hearing the public comment and then uh giving our our.

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Response after that, thank you, chris. um I think what we will do now is we'll open the meeting.

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Up to uh public comment and public testimony again after the completion of that, we will let.

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Mr longmore again do a rebut or or a summary of the case, and then the board will go through and.

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Ask questions of the mr, mr um longmore, and uh he can direct it to whoever he feels is necessary.

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And after we've had all our questions answered, we'll we'll close it and go into deliberations and.

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uh Hopefully come to a decision, so that's the plan for tonight and with that I will open the meeting.

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Up to public testimony, I would like to remind you that if you can, please keep your comments to three.

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Minutes or then come back after everybody else has had a chance to speak. So with that.

A

If anybody in the audience would like to speak first or do we have a list harry.

E

I can retrieve the list from outside if anybody wants to speak.

A

Okay again for the record for the record, would you state your name.

A

Either way, my name is samantha lane. Okay, do you want me address mr chair.

F

Mr chair, I'm sorry to interrupt. Please remember to swear everybody in I'm. Thank you and your address.

G

It's 39880, mrs graves road, okay, canadaville maryland, and if you raise your right hand.

A

Please raise your right hand and repeat after or not repeat but uh answer it do you declare.

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And affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses and statements you were about.

A

To give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes, okay, raise plus seed, so.

G

I took the time to go ahead and um review the uh comprehensive zoning ordinance chapter 25, which.

G

uh Talks about the conditional use of uh the of the applicant and what they're asking for I.

G

Noticed that you know certain standards should be met for the board to approve this, and I see that.

G

There are eight standards and in the standards it talks about, I'm sorry, I'm a little nervous.

G

Anyway, it talks about public safety and public health and that, if, if there is an issue with.

G

That, then, you should not approve this. We've already identified that there are issues with.

G

Public health and public safety in regards to the dump trucks on the road there's no.

G

What do you call it shoulder? We do have a lot of amish on this road. We have farmers on this road.

G

We have a public path with lots of foot traffic. There's potential risk for safety to all of those.

G

Individuals, I personally walk on this road to get to the path I would be concerned for my own safety.

G

Being able to do that because we don't have adequate road for this to occur um also.

G

It talks about the enjoyment of my property. I feel that I will not be able to enjoy my property um if.

G

This goes through where I live. I can physically see this from my porch. I know that this will be a.

G

Noise nuisance to me and my neighbors, um the dust. I know that we talked about mitigation measures.

G

But that's that's not much. He's already said that they're going to tear down the trees.

G

So there really aren't any mitigation measures that he's putting in place. Besides the water truck.

G

To prevent dust from flowing into our property and the potential for airborne contaminants that could.

G

Affect our health, it will also incur financial burden to me, because I will also have to.

G

Power wash my house more often um potentially have health risks, and I know that you guys talked about.

G

The fact that the health department approved this, but have you taken into consideration.

G

The people who live in the neighborhood there are risks, depending on the age of the individual and.

G

Your immune system and the kids that live right across the street, this is going to go on for 12.

G

Years, you don't think that potentially that's going to have a health risk to those kids.

G

And I know that there are other people who live right across the street that have cancer their.

G

Immune system is going to be able to handle that there's some definite concern there.

G

Also, um my property value, it says: if there's going to be an impairment to my property value.

G

Which I know there is I've already called the real estate agent they're telling me to sell.

G

My property now because I'm not going to make the same amount of money I would make if this.

G

Goes through so, therefore, I don't think that the board should approve this based off the standards.

G

So if you could, please review these standards and make sure that you're making the right decision.

G

That's going to promote this rural preserve area and help our environment and.

G

Our neighborhoods continue to be what they are right now. Thank you. Okay, um hold on a second ma'am.

A

um Do the board members have any questions? No, no, sir yeah! I do um at any time, did you reach out to.

H

Sloan, or did they reach out to you, they did not, and I didn't not reach out to them, because.

G

Honestly, I didn't even know about this until my neighbors brought this to our attention.

G

And then I realized that this was happening and um participated in the last hearing.

G

I don't know mr sloane. I've never met him, so I have not reached out to him, but.

G

You know, okay, thank you, okay, thank you very much. Ma'am.

E

If you wanted to call the next person, okay,.

A

The next person we have on our list here is davis, david ack. Do you wish to speak there? You go.

A

And again, if you stand, as you are, raise your right hand.

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And then you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses.

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And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do very good.

A

Proceed hi. My name is david ack. I live at 25907 in harmony lane mechanicsville, maryland 20659.

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I am also the vice president of the grand view haven, homeowners, association.

I

We have 123 homes in our neighborhood. Most of us, including mine, live on the back of the creek.

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That runs through this property. We are unanimously unanimously unanimously against this project, had.

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We known that this was going to go through when we built started building our homes, five, six, seven.

I

Years ago I would have never bought down there, everybody that has lived in this county or knows.

I

Morgan's attorney road knows that there's a safety issue with these trucks, the intersection of 235.

I

And morgan's eternal road was reconstructed due to a dump truck accident. That was a fatal accident.

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Several years ago, there's no way to improve morgan's eternal road to handle these trucks.

I

And I know that they have a transportation plan, but the reality we know time is money. These trucks.

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Aren't going to make a left and go out morganza turner road to go up 235 to go down 247 where.

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They can just go down morgan's return, road make a left onto route 5 and get to where they get.

I

So it's safety not only for us for our community, but the environmental impact.

I

Our water tower feeds off of several springs that are fed from the creek. How do we know that.

I

This runoff isn't going to affect our drinking water. That's a huge issue for us for our children.

I

We have lots of children in our neighborhood that drinking water is important to us, as it is.

I

Important to everybody and the dust will come from that from that area when they remove the trees.

I

A simple water truck, we know, isn't going to be enough to calm the dust from a mining, especially.

I

We had a good summer, we had a good wet summer, but most of our summers are hot and dry and that's.

I

Dust and dirt that will come into our neighborhood and, as the other lady spoke, we have the amish.

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If you've been down, if you've not been down more against turn road go down, there.

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Any county road, I'm sure you've had your life scared, because you've seen a dump.

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Truck on a two-lane road coming around to bend on the left side of the road.

I

So I don't care how careful they have their transportation plan. We know that trucks, don't.

I

Stay on that and morgan's return road is small, as it is if they're coming down that hill around that.

I

Bridge right at the base of their amish farm who's, to say that there's not going to be an accident.

I

Morganza turner road simply is not designed for this type of operation.

I

And as she said, our home values are going to plummet, 200 000 in tax revenue for trucks, great.

I

But we bring in property taxes, we bring in sales tax, we purchase.

I

But if we leave that's revenue that the county is going to miss out on.

A

Thank you. Okay, just second board members have any questions. I don't have a question really.

J

But I have a comment: um I'm not saying that this is going to be approved or denied. I don't know.

J

But I do know that if there is a problem that this is approved- and there is a problem, we can be back.

J

Here again right in front of this board, because we've had that happen before to where the trucks.

J

Were making such noise that, when they, how? How often do they come up for renewal.

E

um Well, once approved the conditional, unless you place a condition upon it,.

E

As long as the use continues and it's not abandoned for more than a year, it does not expire.

J

But but I know, we've had a case where uh I forget. The jones name complained about the noise in front.

J

Of his house and then mr sloane was made to trucks weren't allowed to enter a friendship, school road.

J

They were allowed to exit, but they weren't allowed to enter. I know we changed how it operated.

J

I don't know how that came about, but I knew we did it. I know this board did it.

J

I understood I was not a party to that case, so I can't answer that question, but.

J

What I'm trying to say is if there is a problem, you you write it down and it can be taken care of.

E

um An alleged violation of a conditional use certainly can be investigated. Yes,.

A

And enforcement is if planning and zoning will enforce it if they find.

A

uh Wrongdoing, that's one of our jobs. Okay, thank you. Are you ready, mr.

B

A question on the water: you said you had surface water, going into a water tank.

B

Now don't most, your homes have have wells.

I

No, we, we do have some that are on wells and some that are on city water. So we do have. We have a.

I

Combination neighborhood, we have several homes, I think 20 homes that are on wells.

I

And then the rest are on metcom, but that tower is fed through the spring of the base. Right.

I

There at st clements creek, so you think it's about half and half as far as metcom and wells.

I

7525 25 on wells, the rest is on, but we're at the base of where, where this plant or where this mine.

I

Is going to be that runoff would come down down into st clements creek there morgan's turner that.

I

Feeds- and it goes right behind my house that creek goes right behind my house- it feeds a storm water.

I

Pond that is fed by a natural spring. So that's where our drinking water comes from that area. So.

I

Any runoff that seeps into that groundwater is going to come eventually into either the homes.

I

That have wells or the homes that have water tower. If I I shouldn't do this, but the well.

A

The water supply for the metcom system is from a deep, well that's drilled into a confined aquifer.

A

Which means it has a clay layer above it and a clay layer below it, so that there's no infusion.

A

Of materials into it that well's, probably four or five hundred feet, deep, just a clarification.

B

I thank you, mr hack. Thank you. Thank you, sir hold on hold on one more time. I have a list.

A

Of those that signed up- oh I'm, sorry, I'm sorry! As at hoa, you said, you're the hoa vp right. Yes,.

H

Okay, did the hoa reach out to sloan to express any concerns? Did sloan contact the hoa? I don't know if.

I

They've contacted the hoa and we just actually had a new board installed. So I know that the previous.

I

President of the hoa had submitted a letter. I do not know if he was in contact with I've, got.

H

His letter up, so it doesn't say that that happened, but I've got a method to my madness here. Thank you.

H

um To repeat, I have a list of everybody that signed up uh before you came into the room.

A

I don't know if this is a speaker's list or just to let you know that you're here to to.

A

Stay informed of the case as it goes along. So if I call your name and you don't want to speak just.

A

Let me know the next one we have on the list is andrew grant.

A

Not here, okay, uh sherry thompson.

K

Well, I'm gonna, let my daughter speak okay, that's fine!.

A

We got our, could you state your name.

A

And an address for the record, please, uh my name is levar. Thompson is 3.99.

L

My name is laura thompson. Address is 399 51 mrs graves road, my parents.

L

Live in the glebe run development, um if you could, before you get started, could.

A

You um raise your right hand and take the oath. Do you declare and affirm under the.

A

Penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you. You may proceed.

L

All right, my parents have the same health concerns that many of the other residents.

L

Have expressed um a couple other questions, um mr keely, the person that did your traffic study.

L

um What are his certifications and we're curious? Has he ever taken a ride in an.

L

Unreal dump truck. Has anybody ever taken that path that the dump trucks are going to take.

B

We just state the present question again, please. We are curious. If mr keeley, I understand he works and.

L

Has done taking care of the traffic study? Has he taken a ride in one of these 10 wheel? Dump trucks.

L

To see the safety risks involved, the fact that there are no shoulders in terms of how.

L

School buses, emergency vehicles will pass these dump trucks and what will happen if one of these.

L

Dump trucks breaks down in the middle of the road or morganza because they definitely weren't.

L

Designed well to answer part of your question. I I've been in big trucks before all over the.

B

World by the way, but as far as going down that road we're almost prohibited to do site visits.

B

There are exceptions, but I've been on the board for a couple years and we don't. We don't do site.

B

Visits- and there are some reasons for it- some I agree with some- I don't, but we don't do site.

B

Visits but yes, I I've been in big trucks all over the world. Okay, um other questions.

L

And concerns that we have, um as well as the other health and safety issues with regards to the road.

L

um As well as the three-notch bike trail, my family myself, I go down and visit and we all walk uh to.

L

The trail um is, there are bald eagles that we have seen um during the last hearing. I understood.

L

That they're wiping out the entire tree line. There is the bald and gold eagle protection act.

L

You're not to disturb any nest, whether there's act, whether you see an eagle in it or not,.

L

And we've had several of the neighbors. Some actually have photos, one actually recently.

L

Just told us that they saw them feeding on a dead deer. So that's another concern that we have.

L

Also going back to with regards to, they said the number of trips that they were going to make.

L

We called sloan gravel and spoke with an employee there. They told us that sloan has a total of 13.

L

Drunk trucks, according to his testimony, he said that he plans to make 125 trips a day, we're trying.

L

To figure out how that is possible, if you only have 13 dump trucks, one of the gentlemen testified.

L

Before that, the residents down here were going to benefit that it was going to keep cost lower.

L

Because you know they would be selling gravel to the local community, but based on these numbers, it.

L

Seems impossible that he would be able to cover this number of trips in one day, which means they.

L

Would be contracting them out, and how do we know where that gravel is going? We don't know that that.

L

Gravel is going to stay here in the community and he can't control the markup on that gravel.

L

And another statement that we have with regard to um the amish safety, um I can testify several of.

L

Them live um really off of morganza turner road. I know I watch um for them every time.

L

I come to visit my parents, which is every week um in addition, uh the folks on the bike path. I.

L

Know that you've heard previously a lot of people, don't press that button. I can tell you that I slow.

L

Up even at night, I've seen people at dusk on that trail, whether you're supposed to be on it or not.

L

um I slow up I've seen families, kids just got their walkmans on or riding their bike.

L

It's just a fact I mean I slow and, like I said, I've been on the bike trail myself and I can.

L

Tell you I hit the button and I run across that street because I'm afraid of somebody.

L

Coming up over that hill, in fact, we even called inquired. Could you put the signs back further.

L

And we were told by the county, that's standard procedure until something happens.

L

You know this is code. You know where we're to to put the flashing lights for the bike path.

L

So uh and we do know, um there was somebody an amish person that was killed october, the 27th.

L

In loveville on the road, so you know, um accident already has happened, maybe not arm organza.

L

But we're also concerned um for their safety as well as iris and the health issues. Okay, that.

A

That that's thank you very much. Either the board members have any questions. No.

A

No, no sir mine's to lug them harry um with the law that she referenced in regards to the eagles.

H

Does that change any of the testimonies that change anything we need to consider here.

E

Well, they're projects that go through the technical evaluation committee include the.

E

Wildlife, natural heritage.

E

Agency with the maryland state, and so they would report back um and we can look at the record of.

E

What the comments were with the technical evaluation committee, but they would report.

E

Back if they thought there was need for further investigation of a proposed development project.

H

So if they objected or anything, they would have said it yes and it would have been it um so I'll.

E

Dig for those comments, while the public testimony is taken yeah. If, if I remember from my days.

A

The the departments of natural resources that harry refers to, they have lists of.

A

Active uh and open used uh eagles nest, so they know where they're located within the county.

H

Okay, thank you. The only last question is too: what is the stopping just? Do you know.

L

The stopping distance of that truck of a loaded dump truck by the posted speed.

J

Actually, I'm sure mr lawnmower can get some idea before this is over with and we'll get.

J

That addressed, thank you. Thank you, ma'am um now, lawrence thompson did. He also want to speak.

A

A

Did you select your name and your address name is lawrence thompson.

M

Lived at 399 51, mrs graves road mechanicsville. Now, if you would raise your right hand, do you declare.

A

An affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you may proceed. I have a few.

M

Comments in regards to statement being prior, you know about the money mr sloane um term used.

M

Donates and that the other to the county, you know for uh taxes. You know.

M

This is a law, for you know, road use and another for a large vehicle and another.

M

It's not the way he made it sound to me is like he is giving it to charity. If you will to the county.

M

You know, but this is law he you know he has to. You, know: pay the tax, the tags on the dump trucks.

M

I don't know right offhand what they are right now on that another, but that's what he's paying.

M

For the road use for those dump trucks and another with you know, with those tanks.

M

And uh the gentleman who did you know the safety analysis. You know I had a number of.

M

Questions I submitted a email to you all matter of fact. I think in total, there's 17.

M

Questions: okay to that gentleman about his report and that the other uh about the facts in it and.

M

Here again, I guess tonight we don't have time to go into 17 questions, but you know one of them. You.

M

Know his background: does he have a college degree in in this area of expertise that he's quoting on.

M

Do you know um right off hand? I don't know martin, I don't know well see this is you know.

M

Problematic to me, because if you all don't know sitting here on this board, I could sit and write.

M

Whatever I want on a piece of paper now just to be perfectly frank about this, you.

M

Can take a smooth lawyer- and this happens every day in every court across the land.

M

He can make a murder case sound like it really was nothing just because of the fact of his education.

M

Play on words, whatever you want to use and that yet or whatever.

M

And people go for it based on. You know how he words things, and this is my point about you know.

M

What he has written up and the other and and the number of questions I had in regard to like you.

M

Say uh the report that he stated you know about the site of of uh coming off the mine site: okay,.

M

You know he stated some particular numbers right and left okay, but then he brushed off real, quick.

M

Got away from it, he didn't really go into detail in terms of you know, actual footage in terms of.

M

More so from the side going out to 235, because you go around the curve- and I don't know if any.

M

Of you, gentlemen, on the board or or lady, have gone on that route to actually see what I'm.

M

Actually telling you in that another, you can't see that bike path. Okay, now understand here again.

M

It's like the uh the it's like the guy who who invented the ladder. Okay, he got sued. So many.

M

Times because the idiots using the ladder for everything but what it was designed for standing.

M

On the top run, putting it on power lines and whatever so he had to put all these stickers.

M

On the ladder to prevent and and and keep from him being sued by, the people who bought the ladder.

M

And by where I'm going with this is understand, there is signage on that bike path. That says.

M

People using it must push that button to activate that light. I understand that very well. I had a.

M

Long discussion when the bike path was initiated in that another with the director of the park.

M

And planning and another about some issues about that, and he basically told me.

M

If you choose to go across morganza turner road without pushing that button,.

M

And you get struck by a car, it's on you now! That's that's a a pretty awful answer to give to someone.

M

And another, and with that in respect, how would you want that on your conscience,.

M

If you go around that curve and you have a family who's out for a nice time and they got two or.

M

Three small kids out in front of them, the wife and husband, are talking or whatever and as kids do.

M

They scurry off by their self and they dart across that street without pushing that button, and you.

M

Hit one of them and kill them is that going to make you feel well because hey you're not going.

M

To be sued because hey there's a sign there, that says you must do and in this particular entrance.

M

From the bike path across morganza, they said I've had several conversations. There are a couple.

M

Modifications and I'm not an engineer- I don't have an engineering degree, but I got common sense.

M

It could be made to that to prevent pretty much anyone from riding their bicycle from either side.

M

Across morganza you would literally have to get off of the bike and walk it, but you know what the.

M

Reply is it costs money it costs money to do it. Well. Are these people who use the bike path their.

M

Lives not worth the county money, we're close to three minutes. If you could start to wrap up, please.

M

Well, that's pretty much all you know, I have to you know to say in three minutes some three.

M

Minutes is not enough. I could stay here for a half hour. Okay, does the board members have.

A

A fashion I sent, I sent all of you in that demolition, a three-page letter yeah, so you say.

M

All these questions and what have you and I knew coming tonight that you know here again uh at best.

M

We'll get back to you, okay! Well, any questions from the board members, no sir, just the uh one that I've.

H

Been asking everybody and everybody in here will get asked this: did you reach out to the sloan.

H

Company, or did they reach out to you with any concerns? Well, I did read your letter by the way.

M

I'm sorry, did you reach out to the sloan company, or did they reach out to you at all to discuss any.

H

Of this I have I have a matter of fact: I've tried to engage uh eddie in doing some work for me at.

M

My home and the other, but that's been a year ago and another but uh and here again uh what we're.

M

Discussing and talking about, it's not personal, no, this is strictly business in the sense of him and.

M

I understand him trying to make a living and so forth and so on, but in reality is it really fair.

M

That this project can ruin so many other lives.

M

To get at this gravel when, if it were a national security uh uh uh thing in terms of they needed.

M

That gravel to build something for war, all right, hey! I understand that I get it completely.

M

But you know the statements made in the previous meeting saying that you know he.

M

He saves the community money, that's not true if he sells it to me directly, maybe, but once he sells.

M

It the like howling, concrete or whatever, whatever he has no control over what they charge for their.

M

Product that he sold them, he has no control over that. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.

A

The next person that I have on my list here is paul grant, and I see monica grant is also.

A

On the list, so I don't know if they're coming separately or to we'll start with paul grant.

A

For the record, would you state your name and address uh name is paul grant.

N

39963 miss graves road and if you would raise your right hand and take the oath.

A

Do you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do thank you very much. You may proceed.

N

I came to saint mary's county, probably around 1990.

N

And we moved into glebe run probably around 1999, so we've me and my wife would raise two kids.

N

And I purchased this home thinking, it would be. uh You know our retirement home.

N

N

um But with the uh gravel mine going in and the uh uh contaminants in the air, uh I'm just not sure if.

N

It gets approved if I have to move. um I had a couple concerns uh talking about the bike path.

N

uh Thing the bike path, um I believe, has already had two accidents. There.

N

And I've almost had people there crossing coming over to hell myself because.

N

Again, they don't hit the they don't hit the light and you come over. The hill.

I

And there they are on the other road uh trying to ride their bike across it and.

N

It's it's very tough to uh to stop so that that's a that's! A big concern.

N

The intersection at route, 5 and morganza turner road.

N

uh At the stop sign there, it's very tight if a vehicle is stopped at the stop sign.

N

I don't see how a dump truck can turn once I'm working as a turner off of five.

N

Especially uh a big truck like a ten wheel, dump truck that'd be impossible. There uh also.

N

uh The turning lane at captain leonards uh doesn't seem to be wide enough for say a dump truck there.

N

I know they're, not that's, not their direct route, but the trucks got to come from somewhere. So I'm.

N

Sure there's going to be trucks coming off of 235 um and I think that they'll be hanging out.

N

In the road right there, because that lane is very narrow, I don't know the width of it. I haven't.

N

Measured it obviously, but it's pretty tight there for a car. So um I think that's an issue.

N

That's about all I got. Thank you any questions from the board members. No sir, just the one I've.

H

Been asking everybody nope nope all right. Thank you very much, sir. uh Monica grant.

A

For the record, would you state your name and address sure it's monica grant? I live at 39963.

O

Mrs graves road mechanicsville, thank you and if you would raise your right hand and do you declare.

A

And affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses and statements you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you very much. You may proceed. Can you step a.

K

Little closer tonight sure I didn't want to get too close, because I didn't want to get speaking.

O

So I just have a few things that I want to bring up. Several people have talked about.

O

um The animals that they have seen on within walking, I know for a fact that we have hawks.

O

And I I believe it's a bald eagles nest in our backyard um and I am in glebe run, which is.

O

Right across from where they're proposing to put this gravel pit, um I've actually sat and watched.

O

A bald eagle eat his dinner, which was a big black snake in my front yard.

O

And neighbors actually walked past and went to the other side of the road while he enjoyed it. He sat.

O

There for probably about 20 minutes eating, and I will tell you it was the most exciting thing. I've.

O

Seen ever I mean I never realized how big they were until you could actually see one in person. We.

O

Have had a herd of deer that have come back year after year, where we've seen babies that have grown.

O

Into bucks and does- and we see this every year and we've been in this house for over 22 years-.

O

We've also had wild turkeys that have come across the backyard, so there's a lot of wildlife that.

O

Could be you know, harmed in taking down some of these trees? I fully understand wanting to.

O

Do what you want to do with your property- and I support that, but it's got to be within reason.

O

And within the locations, um I don't feel having a mining operation in an area that is got residents.

O

And residential area is appropriate, there's just too many too many things that could go wrong.

O

Osha mandates are in place for employees of the gravel mines for safety issues.

O

So if osha is going to put mandates in place for breathing for the employees who work in the mines.

O

What about the individuals and the families that live around the mines? They're not going.

O

To have the same protection as the employees, so I think that also needs to be considered in your.

O

Decisions- that's all. I have any comments from the board reach out to mr sloan I'll answer that first.

H

Thanks I've got your letter here very well written. Thank you. Anybody else, no! Okay! Thank you very much.

A

uh The next person that I have on my list here is tamara blanton,.

A

For the record, would you state your name and your address tamara blanton, 399 61 graves road.

P

Mccannsville maryland 20659 and as well as 40102 mrs graves, road mechanicsville maryland.

P

I am back and forth with my father-in-law, where my horses are. Okay, then, would you please raise.

A

Your right hand to take the oath. Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing, but.

A

The truth, thank you very much. You may proceed. I've learned a lot since the first hearing here.

P

I didn't even know about the trees being taken down. I can verify that there are eagles there.

P

I wish I would have had a little bit more time to know that that was a factor.

P

With them taking the trees down, you know I haven't been on, you know, there's a farm in front.

P

Which is a buckler farm that butts up to where sloan wants to um do the gravel pit.

P

But um I wish I would should have gotten a picture of it because it's right there, the.

P

Eagles feeding on a deer, so um maybe if, if this continues, I will send you that picture.

P

Did not know about that and, as everybody else has said, morganza is a tiny country. Road.

P

There is no way that you all can say that nobody's going to get killed. It's going to happen.

P

And um hearing his statement, then we could we after the tragedy, we would have to talk to him.

P

And I think it was this gentleman over here speaking about then they would make an amendment.

P

But why do we even have to risk another casualty? Like somebody else said there has been um what.

P

One I know of on the bike trail was killed. um I mean it's just a small country. Road both ends.

P

Are horrible getting out, and so yes, as somebody had said, when you pull into morganza turner road.

P

You can only pull in one way, which is by cat and leonard's that blocks. If you are leaving morganza.

P

So what happened across the street, which was a casualty where um corner carryout, which is.

P

Right across a dump truck was pulling in and killed. I think it was a family, it was young kids.

P

Whole family- I'm just asking I do understand- sloan- wants to make money.

P

I'm just asking them to find another place where it is not going to cause casualties. It is in fact.

P

Going to- and I I don't want to be back here crying and saying you know yeah, you can do an amendment.

P

But there's no there's no way. You can convince me that if you pass this, it's not going to kill.

P

People along with the pollution, but that's like long term, I'm talking about instant, it's.

P

It's an accident, but this is something that you all can control.

P

And I can speak for everybody in my neighborhood. Everybody is against this. The only people that.

P

Are for it is sloan. I have not met one person and I've been a part of this community for a long time.

P

My father-in-law has been a farmer, of course, he's retired now, 81.

P

We've been down friendship, school road. I go there to get my horse shavings and a sloane.

P

Truck is always crossing the line getting it. You know, I'm not putting it at all of.

Q

Their drivers are like that's 10 minutes, and so you can start to wrap up. Okay, that's about it! Just.

P

There's going to be casualties, and I just really hope you all look into yourself and.

P

Said about the money about the price of life and the country life that we have.

P

Nothing against sloan at all. Thank you. um Any comments, questions usual question did.

H

You reach out to sloane. I didn't talk to mr sloan, the first meeting it was outside, so um I.

P

Actually it was this lawyer, I asked, um I said, are you all sloane's lawyers, because I never met them.

P

And um I was talking to him and I said you know everybody has a price. What is your price to not.

P

Do this and his words were f you I don't need to talk to you so that was mine. I don't believe that.

P

Well, that's what happened and I am under oath any other questions. Thank you very much. I believe.

A

That any other questions, no sir, thank you ma'am. The next I have on the list is nelson blanton.

A

For the record, would you state your name and address nelson blanton.

R

40102 ms graves road in kanexville, thank you and if you would raise your right hand.

A

You declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Yes, sir, thank you very much, sir. Please proceed. You know. I've been listening to everybody talk.

R

And the one thing that I ain't heard nothing about is the ugliness of having a gravel pit.

R

And if all have been down friendship, school road to end, that's horrible! Looking that ain't.

R

We don't want that around miss gray's, road and morgan's road. I mean that's ugly.

R

And that's, that's: what's that's all been mined down there at one time I reckon it was a farm.

R

But it's real ugly: it would that be what we're gonna get.

R

That's the only thing I got, I mean, I know the traffic thing, that's a bad thing.

R

Dump trucks and whatnot, but the thing that I'm thinking about is the ugliness.

R

That's it any questions from the board members. No, no, sir. The same one, I've asked everybody.

H

Did you reach out to mr sloane, or did they reach out to you at any time.

R

No, so I ain't talking on them. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you very much. um Let's see.

A

It looks like it's sean morris.

A

Maybe I must pronounce the last name: m-o-r-r morit. Apparently he stepped out of the room, sir.

E

Okay, we'll come back to that.

A

Todd and wendy chatham, okay.

A

For the record, would you state your name? My name is wendy chatham.

F

And your dress a little bit 39830 stillwater away, mechanicsville maryland.

S

20659 and if you would raise your right hand, I will swear you in, do you declare an affirm.

A

Under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be.

A

The whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do thank you very much proceed. Thank you.

S

The applicant's oral testimony on the last meeting was we anticipate 125 trucks per day.

S

Over a nine hour work day, that would mean 14 trucks per hour or one truck every four minutes.

S

However, the applicant's actual paperwork which is uh in the file states 20 to 50.

S

Trucks per hour, so that's very different than 125 trucks per day. So if there were 20 trucks.

S

Per hour, that means a truck going by every three minutes. If they're going to be 30 trucks an hour.

S

That means one going by every two minutes and it does say up to 50, meaning that potentially we're.

S

Looking at every one and a half minutes, we have a truck going by so I do want to let everyone know.

S

The speed limit is 40 miles an hour on morganza turner, road and one thing that I've noticed.

S

Since moving to st mary's county is that speed limits are barely enforced here, let alone obeyed.

S

Negligence, beating drivers have destroyed my trash cans, they've destroyed mailboxes, where I live, and.

S

In the back of my home is, is the creek that people cross over and there's a hill that goes down.

S

To the creek and his blue dump truck almost every afternoon between four and six o'clock runs this.

S

Compression break down the hill and it's almost like clockwork, so when I am envisioning now are up.

S

To 50 trucks an hour running their compression breaks down the hill by my house and they're.

S

Very noisy, I don't know if the council has ever heard compression breaks running by homes. I do.

S

Know that barring an emergency they're really not necessary if someone is actually doing the speed.

S

Limit but then again people oftentimes don't do the speed limit. So that is a concern of mine.

S

Also, as far as the three notch trail and the flashing light today, I was coming down highway.

S

Five from mechanicsville heading south and the light was flashing at the trail where it crosses.

S

Highway five and the dump truck in front of me didn't even slow down. So even if the light is.

S

Flashing, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen if we're looking at potentially 20 to.

S

50 trucks per hour just with human existence, there is a potential that, even if that light's flashing.

S

It can be missed, and I know that you all aren't allowed to make trips, but from when you can see.

S

The flashing light, if you even go up over the hill, it is a very, very short distance. So I have.

S

A tiny little car- and maybe I could probably stop but a truck that is carrying 35 000 pounds worth.

S

Of gravel would not be able to so even with the light. Flashing is not a guarantee that people.

S

Are going to see it as for needing more gravel to make growth cheaper? Here, I would like to suggest.

S

Perhaps growth management, my example- is that the ford dealership had a perfectly good store.

S

On great mills road, but instead for some reason, the county allowed them to just chop down more.

S

Trees and put an even bigger parking lot and now there you have a bigger parking lot with more.

S

Trees chopped down and now there's a new empty parking lot sitting at great mill, so maybe managed.

S

Growth is is another way to reduce the amount of gravel that needs to be brought into the county.

S

My other concern is that we have this increase of buzzards, because more and more animals are.

S

Getting killed- and you know that's just a thing that comes along with deforestation and so the.

S

Bummer is that the beauty of saint mary's county is just really disappearing quickly.

S

And I realized that morgan's a turnaround is zoned as a rural preservation district that.

S

Allows for mental extraction, but really, for all intents and purposes it's a residential.

S

Street, because on one side of the street you have the farms and on the other side, it's just.

S

Homes, okay, so it really is a residence after three minutes. Could you wrap it up all right, then? That's.

A

It that will be it okay. Well, thank you very much. Does the board members have any questions.

H

No just the one I've asked everybody: did you reach out to sloane or did they reach.

S

No, I'm not going to confront mr sloan about his compression break going by my house every day.

H

Okay, thank you and todd. Does todd wanna, okay, thank you and then I'll go back to sean.

A

Mari okay: come on your turn. Did you want to speak? No, oh okay, um evelyn sloan.

A

Looks like it's edwell, sloan, okay, we'll come back to that um austin sloan.

A

No dylan sloane.

F

A

And I can't read the last one: g-r-o-n.

A

I'm sorry if I mess that up.

A

Would you state your name and your address for the record, um I'm grant pate uh 39960 mrs graves.

T

Foreign 659., okay, would you raise your right hand and take the oath? Do you declare an affirm.

A

Under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be.

A

The whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you very much. Please proceed. I was just.

T

Worried about the environment and what it'll do to the animals around the area. um My mom.

T

Has lyme disease and the pollutants in the air? um We're not really we've been here since 1999 and.

T

We just didn't know that this would like destroy the environment and the animals, and we we have.

T

Animals all over, we have chickens, goats, and we have neighbors that like to take naps in.

T

The middle of the day and like if the noise and the pollution is just we're not comfortable with.

T

It as a community- and we were wondering if there could be anything done about that- that.

T

Where you guys can get where you want, we can get what we want. That's pretty much.

T

It do the board. Members have any questions, no, no sure. Oh just the one, I've asked everybody.

H

Did you guys reach out to the sloan corporation? Do they reach out to y'all? No thanks.

A

That's the names that I have on the list is there anybody else that would like to speak.

F

Would you check the phone and see if anybody's do you want to get the phone number again.

A

uh Yes, I can. I can do that. Thank you for reminding me and if there is anybody out.

A

There that's listening on youtube or the county's website. If you would like to call in the number is.

A

Two 301-475-4200 zero extension. One two three four excuse me, sir.

M

There's a chance to get a second bite of the apple.

A

Well, we start wait. We finish the phones and I'll come back to you. Then, okay, since you.

U

Know there are, you know, a number of people that you called that represented didn't want to speak.

A

um Yeah, let me get the first time callers.

A

And then we'll come back to you for the second time. Thank you, sir.

C

What about miss young? Do we have any callers? um I I do. um I noticed a couple of.

V

The people on the list had spoken previously, and this one is also one who has spoken.

V

Previously, that's okay, we'll take their call, okay on part one! Okay! Thank you. Thank you.

Q

Hello, this is board of appeals. Can I have your name and number for the name and address for.

C

The record, my name is thomas buckler. My address is 40065. Mrs graves, road mechanicsville, maryland.

W

20659, okay, mr buckler, we're gonna, give you the oath, and then you may proceed with your three.

C

Minutes all right, thank you, mr buckler. This is dan igneoski, the chairman of the board. Can you hear me.

A

Yes, sir, okay, do you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

W

Yes, I do well. Thank you very much. You may proceed all right. uh I was able to.

W

Speak virtually last time, and and luckily enough to do it again this time as well.

W

uh I just wanted to reiterate the things I brought up last time uh maintained the.

W

Farming operation that that my brother and I operate, like I said from one end of morgan,.

W

To turn the road to the other, uh the difficulty moving machinery up and down this road is already.

W

A big enough headache without all the added traffic of the dump trucks, um as I told you.

W

Before I've already been involved in an auto accident this year on organza turner road, while.

W

I was trying to operate a tractor, and I've also had two near misses with with impatient drivers.

W

Then you know, like I said: the property runs parallel to my parents, farm.

W

My wife and the kids, and I we we utilize that farm, the road that separates the.

W

Two properties, all the time, we're not going to have that luxury anymore. Once they start mining.

W

As well as the fact that we were poised to build on my parents farm and once we caught.

W

Wind of the gravel fit situation we moved, I chose not to build, which had been a lifelong dream of.

W

Mine, furthermore, I found out that that property that they want to mine was previously owned by.

W

Cheney, which is another mining company and after they dug test poles all over the property.

W

They deemed that the property wasn't suitable to dig because there wasn't enough gravel. There.

W

And and since I'm under oath, my father was approached by.

W

Randy sloan about digging his property, my father. Let them do test holes out on our property, which.

W

Had an abundant amount of gravel and per randy, he even said himself that that property doesn't have.

W

Much gravel there at all until you get close to my father's property line, so that goes in conjuncture.

W

With what cheney has said, so why are they even digging it? If there's not that much material there.

W

um And the only other comment I had is there's two gentlemen in the back row that I'm watching.

W

On youtube, one in a blue blazer and another in a black pullover and they're smirking and eye.

W

Rolling has been very juvenile and unprofessional and they are part of the sloan entourage.

W

I just thought I'd: let everybody that they're sitting behind know that they're laughing at.

W

Them as they give their testimony, so that's all I have thank you, mr buckler. If you hold on a second.

A

Do any of the board members have any questions? No! No! No. I think I've actually asked the question to.

H

Him before is, did you reach out to sloan or, and it sounds like you've already talked to some of.

H

The sloan family, so I think your answer would be yes, if you've expressed your concerns to them.

W

I'm sorry, could you repeat that, did you reach out to the sloan family or did they contact you? It.

H

Sounds like you've already had that conversation with them about your concerns for the property.

W

No, I don't. I I'm really having a hard time hearing you buddy.

V

Let's see, if I can reiterate, was sir: did you express your concerns directly to the sloanes.

E

Yeah about for building the house to the gravel pit in general.

C

uh Like I said last time, I'm neighborly doing your wave awful conversation.

W

But never never spoke to the gravel operation. um I, like everybody else, you know, didn't, want to mix.

W

Business and pleasure, thank you and thank you very much. um Is there another caller? Okay? Thank you, mr.

C

Buckler and one more thing I did want to add uh about what she was told. uh I was within earshot.

W

Of that conversation- and it was eddie sling that told her that so I am under oath too, and I can.

W

Vouch for what he told her, so thank you for your time. I appreciate your opportunity. Thank you, sir.

F

C

Board of appeal, ms young, do we have any more calls? I am. I don't have any at the moment.

C

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you and I believe then, we'll go back to mr thompson. Is it.

A

I would remind you, I would remind you, you're still under oath, sir, and I'll also remind you yes, sir.

M

The only thing I wanted to bring up you know uh the environment, the sitting president.

M

Of the united states just came back from a climate accord to reduce pollution, and part of that was.

M

Gasoline diesel trucks, you, sir said you've driven large trucks all over the world. Yes, I have okay.

M

Are you familiar with the word or the terminology coal burner? Yes, I've driven trucks in japan, saudi.

B

Arabia, turkey, with that term, yes, could you no explain to the to the board what that term means.

B

No okay, basically, what the coal burner terminology is. It's all the black.

M

Admissions soot and stuff that comes out of a diesel dump truck or any.

M

Diesel vehicle and any other and I'm sure at some point in your lives living down here in this area,.

M

You have got you have had to experience going out on route five, particularly up in mechanicsville.

M

Even down here too, it doesn't really matter of getting behind.

M

One or two dump trucks stopped at a traffic light when the dump truck takes off.

M

A lot of them, I'm not saying all a lot of them puff enough black smoke out.

M

That you and everyone else, and especially doesn't matter summer winter suck those fumes in your car.

M

I've been behind some myself, where literally hey, I had to lay off the gas and get away.

M

From the truck because it just here again, it filled my car up now with that being said,.

M

When these dump trucks leave the mining site and go out to route 235.

M

With the number of trips that he states, he plans on making how many dump trucks.

M

Will be lined up at that stop sign to go on to route 235 to go down to the wash plant.

M

Now you, sir, being an experienced driver, you know how long it takes if you've driven a.

M

Dump truck, as you say, or a large truck how long it takes for a vehicle of that size and weight.

M

Pulling out onto a on a highway that the speed limit is 55 miles an hour.

M

Okay, once he pulls out there, his objective is to get that vehicle out on that road. Does he really.

M

Care, what's coming behind him in terms of the cars running 45-55 miles an hour, don't think so.

M

Most drivers that I've experienced and been around down here driving these big trucks, uh I'm the.

M

Big man, I got the right of way here you all get over in the other lane. Well, sometimes you don't.

M

Have that option you know traffic is such that you know you, you can't change lands that quick.

A

Okay, well, thank you very much. Do the board members have any questions? No.

A

No sir, thank you very much, mr mr thompson.

E

We'll check it for another caller: okay.

V

Board of appeals, uh yes, miss young, do we have any more callers? No, we have uh completed all of.

V

Our phone calls, I believe, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, david was it yes, sir. Remember your.

A

Plea, please remember, you're under earth. Yes, sir, I just wanted to add uh two more quick things.

I

One regarding the environment- yes, this is gonna, be a strip mine. Yes, it's gonna be ugly.

I

There's gonna be a lot of earth moved and if you're not familiar with morgan's, eternal.

I

Road when you come off of 235, just as you get to the new brewery, whatever the the.

I

New business is there there's a sign that says entering the wicomico river watershed.

I

And that is important to our county. The wicomico river is important to our watermen, not just here.

I

In saint mary's county, but to everybody, upriver everybody in charles county and our friends in the.

I

Commonwealth of virginia this dirt, this runoff is going to affect the watershed, because we.

I

Cannot control mother nature? We had a day lose 20-year historic rain last month month before.

I

We cannot control that runoff. We can put measures in place, but dams fail, levees, fail, ponds, fail.

I

And we have done a lot in our county to protect the wacomico river watershed. The patuxent river.

I

Watershed and the chesapeake bay, so that's another consideration. I'd like the board to factor in.

I

Is what damage could this do to the wacomogo river into our watermen into our local waters?.

I

Thank you any questions. No. Thank you. I believe, then. That concludes the public. Testimony portion.

A

Of tonight's meeting and what I will do is I'll close, the public testimony portion of the meeting.

A

And I'll ask mr longmore to come up for his summation rebuttal comments, answers.

A

To questions certainly, and thank you, mr chairman, again um I introduce the folks that are here both.

D

uh Personally and on zoom, and if there's any questions at the board house for any of us.

D

We're happy to answer them. I was planning to ask a couple questions and follow up to the.

D

Comments we heard tonight and at the last hearing- and I guess mr keely, if, if you're.

D

Online and available, I'm sure you heard the questions asking about the type of.

D

Your background and professional credentials: can you share those with the board please and and also.

D

um The type of work that your your business, that you're affiliated with traffic concepts, the type.

A

Of work they've been doing, I'm gonna. He was sworn in at the last meeting, so he still is storing in.

D

Certainly, mr chairman, thank you. He was sworn in and testified so mark. Did you hear my question.

D

Yeah, I did yes, so can you please uh share with the board your your background and credentials and the.

D

Type of work that traffic concepts performs sure I'm a project manager with traffic concepts. I've.

X

Got 28 years in transportation, engineering, um nine of which are in harford county four in queen.

X

Anne's county and I've been with traffic concepts for 15 years. I've got a college degree in planning.

X

A master's degree in planning I was certified with the american institute of certified planners, and I.

X

Have a certification with the institute of traffic engineers, professional transportation planner? I.

X

Do not have a commercial driver's license? Okay and uh mr keeley, there was a question about the.

D

Stopping distance of the trucks- I believe you you testified about that at the prior hearing.

D

But would you mind just kind of reiterating um your opinion on on that subject.

X

Yeah, I can speak for the stopping sight distance for morganzo road turner. Road is uh posted at 40.

X

Miles an hour, we did a sight distance test using the design speed of 50 miles an hour.

X

So the stopping sight distance required for um for a 50 mile an hour road is 425.

X

Feet intersection sight distance for a vehicle. Turning left from a stop position, it's 550 feet.

X

um The sight distance analysis revealed that there's in excess of 600 feet, so there's there's.

X

600 feet of of stopping sight distance at the site, access on morganza turner, road.

X

And that that should be very adequate for a dump truck to stop before it sees an object in the road.

D

And mr keeley, I recall you testifying at the last hearing that you believe that the.

D

um You testified about the roots that the trucks would be taking.

D

And I believe you testified that you believed that the roads were adequate.

D

um For the for the trips that those trucks would be taking, do you recall that testimony.

X

uh Yes, sir, I did testify. The roads are adequate. There's no restrictions on.

X

Trucks, the majority of the roads are state highway.

X

Morgan's turner's county road busy corner road is also a county maintained. Road.

X

uh Of which there's no uh restrictions on trucks, okay, have any of the uh the comments you've.

D

Heard either the last hearing or tonight has that changed your opinion in any way? No okay um and mr.

D

Thank you mark, did you have any other comments or or that you would like to make that we haven't.

D

Touched on my questions to you. uh No, I do not. Okay thanks. um We also have john mayer on the.

K

Law, I'm sorry can. Can we ask mr kelly a question now? Certainly so I have two questions. um Was that.

K

Traffic study at 50 miles per hour was that with a loaded truck or an empty truck.

X

No, that's just so that, as I stated, the the the posted speed on the road is 40., so the design.

X

The roads designed for 50 50 miles an hour so when we do our it's, it's based on measurements,.

X

So and it's based on state highway criteria. So if you a 50 mile an hour road, you have to.

X

Have a stopping site distance of 425 feet, so we did the measurements and we have.

X

425 feet plus, so it's it's not based on a loaded truck. It's based on.

X

The design speed and how much sight distance a clear sight distance you have and we meet.

X

We meet the sight distance for stopping sight, distance and also intersection sight distance.

K

So that could be for a car or a truck or any kind of vehicle yeah it's car truck, yes, ma'am car truck.

K

So in your in your expertise, can a loaded truck stop at that short distance.

X

Well again, the stopping sight distance is 425 feet so 50 miles an hour that that's the state criteria.

X

So I you know, I'm not yes. The answer to the question is yes, it can. A loaded truck. Can.

X

Stop after it sees an object in the road at 425 feet away it can. It can stop okay, and I.

X

Say that that's because it's that's the county stand, that's the maryland state highway standard.

K

But you don't really know how long it takes a loaded truck to stop.

K

Okay, second question: how wide is the morganza turner road, the width? um I think it was.

X

It was, it varies in width, so I believe it's approximately 11 feet wide. One lane.

X

I'm sorry, I didn't hear that I believe the lane width each each lane is approximately 11 feet wide.

K

11 feet and how well that's the lane? That's each lane: how wide is it yeah, so it's approximately.

X

22 feet wide and it varies from 22 feet to no a lane each lane in each direction.

X

Is approximately 11 feet wide right, so the entire road lanes are approximately.

X

I'm sorry, so the entire road width is 22 feet that includes both lanes. How wide is a dump truck.

X

I don't know, I don't know the dimensions of the dump truck. Okay, mr grace is on the phone.

D

He might be able to answer that with slow materials, if you like, miss delhi. Thank you.

H

I have a couple of questions from mr keeley executive guy bradley in regards to some of.

H

The citizens concerns about three notch trail that runs right across morgan's attorney road.

H

During your traffic study, did you look at that area.

H

Did you look at sight distance from where the flashing indicators are.

H

Was any of that taken into consideration for the traffic study.

X

So we looked at it, um didn't we didn't do a sight, distance evaluation.

X

I would assume, when the county put the.

X

Flashers, in that they did a study to make sure that this signal um met county standards.

X

In terms of the signal, design and sight distance, otherwise it wouldn't go in the fact that.

X

Added vehicles to the road doesn't change the road geometry and it doesn't change.

X

Anything in terms of safety or operation of that trail.

H

But I thought the use of the road does, but that may be a county question. I was just wondering.

H

If you took that under advisement, when you guys were looking at the number of vehicles coming.

H

Onto the road and how that would change the use of that road, would it now present a concern.

H

For that area, because there are a lot of pedestrians that cross that road there.

H

Was that part of the question, or was that part of your study.

X

Again we we looked at the the trail, but um you know I testified.

X

The center gravel pit would generate approximately 125 um trips per day and.

X

That's less than one percent of the total volume on morganza turner, road.

X

Which is, according to the state data a little over 2 000 trips a day, it doesn't change the.

X

uh The function of morgan's a turn or road, okay, the other question is in regards to a.

H

Portion of the population- that's not represented here tonight and that's the amish. Did you look.

H

At the use or amish vehicles on the road, or did your study just entail cars and motorized vehicles.

X

No, our study entailed just um look looking at the uh essentially the sight distance and then.

X

We did an uh road inventory um of the hall route we didn't take. We didn't look at specifics of.

X

um You know horse and buggy um traffic that you know, I presume, are allowed on all the public roads.

X

And again, adding 125 trips, whether that's uh truck trips or passenger car trips, doesn't change the.

X

Functional classification of of the roadway of any any of the roadways.

H

All right, thank you. You're welcome, sir.

D

There any other questions from mr keeley.

B

I asked this question uh before, but I'd like to ask it again in several of the letters we.

B

See they talk about a five axle, 26 ton super dump trucks. Are there such a thing or not?.

X

uh Sir, I'm not an expert on dump trucks that that would be a question for the.

X

The developer for salon yeah, mr richardson, I believe, mr grace- uh we can bring him on.

D

He's on the line as well, I believe he answered that question at the last hearing. He was he's.

D

With sloan material, so I'm going to ask him a couple questions. I can certainly ask him that.

D

Are there any other questions? Mr killer? um Mr mayor john mayer is on on the line.

D

As well, he is also with traffic concepts just and he's also sworn in. Yes, yes, and he testified.

D

Previously, thank you, mr chairman. um Mr mayor, can you uh likewise just share with the board.

D

um Your training and experience um in this type of work and what you do for traffic concepts.

Y

Yeah sure um I've been with traffic concepts for about six months. Prior to that, I worked 30 years.

Y

With anne arundel county, uh the majority of which was focused on traffic engineering and development,.

Y

Review after retiring from anne arundel county, I moved on and worked two years with maryland.

Y

State highway administration: I have a bachelor of arts degree from the university of maryland.

D

Okay and- and I believe you were one of the authors of the letter in the that was submitted with the.

D

Record is that right, mr mayor? Yes, that's correct! Okay, um based on the testimony you've heard.

D

Tonight and at the last hearing have any of your conclusions or opinions changed as of this project,.

Y

uh No, they have not. Do you have anything. You would like to add in light of what mr keeley.

D

Testified to earlier or any contradictions you have with any of his testimony.

Y

uh I don't believe so I think mark did a pretty good job of summing up what we looked at when we.

Y

Prepared when we prepared our traffic analysis, I didn't notice that one gentleman that was speaking.

Y

Was concerned about right turns off of maryland five on the morganza.

Y

And if you look at the route, the hall route that we're using that wouldn't be the case.

D

And that and and mr mayor, are you saying that, because the routes do not have any trucks.

D

Turning right off of route 5 under morgan's a turner, correct.

D

Correct they're taking busy corner road once they're emptied and going back to the site.

D

Is that correct, correct? Yes, okay, thank you for for clarifying that! That's that's! That's not true!.

D

That's not true. No, that's not right. They're they're, not off of route. Five they're, not.

D

Taking right onto morgan to turn their road, we have, we can pull pull up the only way you.

J

Can get on more games to turn the road is all for route 5.. You can't get that's going to busy corner.

D

And then right on you're right, I apologize but not onto route 5 from the wash plan. I apologize.

D

For can we pull up the tr? Is it possible? We need a map that route. So it's clear for the record.

J

That's the only way to get on more games to turn the road from route. Five.

D

Yeah, I just want to and I'll pull it up and just show the routes to make sure I'm being.

D

Clear, I don't want to misstate something I've lived here 69 years and I think that's.

J

Interesting and that's the only way you can do it right and I'm not telling you how long but okay.

D

And it is and to correct it for the statement. The trucks would take a right on the five, a left onto.

D

247 to busy corner, and it would be on on route 5 for a short distance before it turned right onto.

D

Morganza right corner, so I will correct that. Mr mayor, I think your testimony was incorrect based.

D

On the on the map, there will be a brief, a brief time, it'll be on on route 5., and we will, if we can.

D

Yeah I apologize, I think, we're we're all saying the same thing. I just didn't explain it very well.

D

Right so there will be that turn there and that that was addressed, but.

D

It will not be the full length of route 5 that they'll be going down because they're going to.

D

Go right and scroll up a little bit just for the there you go, so this is the route.

D

And certainly if the board has any questions about the route, we'd be happy to answer them.

D

I want to make sure the record's clear, I'm good. Okay, um mr grace, are you on the line.

Z

Yes, I'm here and mr grace I'd remind you you're still under oath as well. You testified.

D

uh Previously you're with sloane materials is that correct.

D

I am okay, and did you hear a moment ago, mr richardson's question about.

D

um I don't want to misstate the type of truck that uh he asked about. Did you hear that question.

D

Mr grice about the width of the truck well, certainly one of the questions was about the width.

D

Of the truck, are you able to to give an estimate of the width of the trucks that will be using the.

D

Site, I I cannot give you an exact figure, but it would definitely be eight feet or less okay and.

D

Did you hear mr richardson's question about the type of trucks that were in some of the comments.

D

That were suggested would be this richmond. Do you have the dimensions of it in three or four of the.

B

Letters we received, they talked about a five axle. 26 ton super dump truck. Do they actually exist.

Z

uh Yes, sir, I believe they do.

Z

But mr sloane does not own any five axle super dump trucks and.

Z

I don't believe I have ever seen. One enter our mining operation.

Z

Okay, thank you or I should say, gravel pit. There is a a uh an independent trucker who operates.

Z

One of those who hauls mr sloan's processed material from the plant to locations up the.

Z

Road, he does not operate out of the actual gravel pit mining operation. Okay, thank you.

D

And mr grace, I believe one of the questions mr richardson had at the last hearing was whether.

D

There'd be any tandem dump trucks, and I believe you testified. Mr sloane does not have any of those.

D

Either is that correct.

Z

And my understanding of what he means is a tandem dump truck. I believe.

Z

Is what we would call truck pulling a pump trailer right, uh which would be two dump bodies.

Z

And uh no sir, uh there are no none of those trucks involved in mr saloon's operation. I would have to.

Z

Say I'm not sure I've ever seen, one in st mary's county okay and there was- um I don't- have hear the.

D

Testimony earlier some questions from the public about the number of trips that are being proposed.

D

For this site, can you confirm the number of daily trips that are being proposed? If you know.

Z

Well, I believe the 125 daily trips is considered to be a max trip per day and.

Z

I would appeal to mr sloan to verify this, but I do not believe it's very likely that that maximum.

Z

Number will be reached on a regular basis, okay and- and I can state for the record that that mr.

D

Sloane, as part of this application is willing to have a condition placed on on any approval tonight.

D

For the number of trips that he is testified, or that is in the record that will.

D

Will be using the facility daily to ensure that that's done, and that is one of those things where.

D

An enforcement action could be brought if that was ever violated. Excuse me, the 125 trips is that.

A

125 loaded trucks and 125 returning trucks, or is it 125 votes? Mr grace, can you testify to that or.

D

I can ask mr buckman to come up because I believe he has that information and he testified before.

Z

I believe that is intended to be 125 round trips. That's correct! Okay,.

A

Where's the truck end up at the end of the day, it'd be an odd number. Then right.

D

Okay again, we have uh mr buckmer here who testified uh before I'm going to ask him.

D

To come up with um with an exhibit, he has to address some of the concerns that the.

D

The county has made, I don't have any specific questions for for barry tonight.

D

But if the board has any questions of them, either from his prior testimony or from the.

D

Public testimony at night, but barry do you want to bring up the exhibit now and then.

D

Then we'll open it to questions and again mr buckmeyer, I believe you're still under yes, sir.

B

Thank you, yep.

C

C

D

For the record, mr buckman has given uh staff a copy of a thumb, drive that'll, be able to pull it up on the screen.

D

So, in light of many of the comments that were raised but said the last hearing and tonight.

D

uh Mr buckmeyer has worked with with mr sloan uh to go over a proposal that we think will address.

D

At least some of the concerns that were raised so so barry take it away, uh so mr sloane proposes.

AA

To put in the 25-foot mining buffer, a screening of 108 leland cypress, which will help with dust.

AA

And will fully screen the site from view once the mining operation starts, this will be downhill and.

AA

And uh with the cypress trees in place, um the mine may not be should not be visible from the road.

D

Turn on the exhibit, can you just kind of describe? Is it the? I know it might be obvious and I'm not.

D

Sure, if the we can see it on the screen but kind of the green line on the screen and the.

D

The green circles on the paper copies yeah, so so it screens the entire uh eastern property line.

AA

From where the mine starts, it's approximately 1600 feet of plantings and mr slim would be willing to.

D

Have that place as a condition if his project is approved tonight, that's why I understand it. Yes,.

D

So we wanted to propose that we know that screening was one of the concerns.

D

Raised at the last hearing and tonight so mr sloane did want to make that that proper, even.

D

Before the board um asked for for such a profit that green line of the cypress trees- yes, yes, ma'am.

K

And how tall are they going to be when they plant them? uh Three three foot.

AA

Three feet: okay,.

AA

So so per the uh arbor day website they grow uh three two to three feet per year.

AA

We chose that tree because it's the fastest growing any other questions. Yes, I understand.

B

There's there's three phases, uh not knowing the exact number of uh trips per day, but how long do.

B

You think it'll take to do the phase one. I would really need to defer to randy. For that I I will. Mr.

D

Richardson and I viewed the the testimony from the last hearing um mr sloane, I believe or mr.

D

uh Grace and mr sloan through zoom, uh shared that it would be three to four years. I believe.

D

On on phase, one is what I I happen to review that this morning and remember that is on the.

D

The video that's online, thank you before we move on from this. Does this have to be an exhibit? We.

D

Would ask that to be made part of the part of the thing? What exhibit would this be good questions.

C

Traffic exhibit um snippet for attachment; five exhibit four movement, four attachment five.

AA

So we could certainly plant bigger trees to start with, we could plant plant.

AA

Five, five or six foot trees to start off with. If that would please the board um and reply to that.

J

Are where's the operation going to start? Is it going to start out in the front by.

J

The road uh the first phase will be in the back. Well, that should take care of itself.

J

After those three to four years right, hopefully the screening, yes, that would be adequate.

D

That was the hope and kind of the design of it but question the.

A

The access road you show, what is the treatment of the hall road.

A

From the edge of pavement or maganza turner, road to the mountable berm.

A

What is the treatment of that hall road and what's the length of that.

A

Piece that little piece, that is about 80 feet and the plan, is to build that up with with gravel and.

AA

Pavement asphalt pavement, yes, sir.

A

Is there an entrance requirement, a new entrance requirement for the road by the county? No sir,.

A

So the existing entrance- that's there will be used. Yes, sir r20.

F

R20 is a standard entrance in the county's standard book of standards.

J

And and you're going to upgrade the existing road. That's there now.

J

Are you going to upgrade the driveway? Yes, sir, the driveway.

J

And what would that be again for that short portion there? It's about 90 feet, 90 feet.

J

J

R20 entrance actually, if you're going to write.

AA

That into the record, I would say it's probably about 120 feet, total.

A

And after after the berm will there be a stone construction entrance.

A

Have the paving from the from the road to the mountable berm and then from there.

A

Standard stone construction entrance, uh so soil approved that as the um the construction entrance.

AA

Would be the hall road which, which should take care of any packed mud in the in the wheels.

AA

But I'm sure mr sloane would put in a.

AA

A run of rock there to help okay.

F

Okay, any other questions from the ward members. No, sir, okay go ahead. Thank thank you, mr chairman. If.

D

If I may I'll summarize, you know kind of very briefly unless the the board has any questions of.

D

Of mr buckman or any of other team members that are online again, mr grace and the.

D

Traffic engineers that are working on the project, as well as mr hopson, are available.

D

Online questions um any other questions of anybody, no sure, actually, so with this project.

H

We've seen a and you'll probably touch on it. In the summary, we've got what 41 letters that have.

H

Come into the board, we've had 10 folks here, 11 folks, here speak either on the phone or in person.

H

As you heard, I asked the majority of those standing here whether they had reached out.

H

To you, guy to the sloan corporation and if sloane had reached out to them, I also went through all.

H

The letters to see if there was any kind of communication some people had done that some.

H

People had not, there were three or four letters that stood out which were very eloquent and.

H

Made their points very succinctly, there were others, they all had a common theme.

H

It does not sound like that either side of the house has talked about an issue. That's a neighbor.

H

Issue all right, these concerns are very real concerns that they've got sloan, has a right to do.

H

A project make money and be a business and they are not an evil company by any means.

H

There are personalities in every company so when that happens, sometimes conversations get heated.

H

But at the same time, I think a lot of the concerns.

H

Could have been addressed if either side had just reached out and said: hey.

H

We don't want this, what are y'all going to do to do stop this? How can we address this and fix this.

H

I think that a lot of information could have been relayed back and forth.

H

And a lot of concerns could have been answered and very legitimate concerns by the way.

H

uh Not just perceptions, there's a um a couple of very well written letters in here that are just.

H

They they lay out their case. There is one from the gattons that talks about how a project was.

H

Disapproved because of the traffic concerns off of 235, there is one written by a sloan employee.

H

That goes in and he spells out succinctly how well the corporation has.

H

Worked to make sure that their trucks are safe and that their trucks are abiding by the law or.

H

And spelling out some of those concerns, there are some very well written letters.

H

From other people with the concerns, this is the first I'd heard of the eagle thing.

H

Things of those natures, but my whole sense within the community. This is saint mary's county, we're.

H

Not loudoun county we're, not these others. We are neighborly here, there's a lot of great people and.

H

The sloan family is a part of that so on both sides and pardon me, while I'm on my soapbox.

H

I really think a lot of the concerns and issues could have been.

H

Alleviated before they got here, if people had just talked.

H

And honestly, I don't know which way my person, I don't know which way this is going to go tonight.

H

But both sides have very strong cases, and I think from this point on, if people talk.

H

I think a lot of the stuff will be resolved. The project will go one way or the other all right.

H

It's just man. This is frustrating we've been dealing with this since july.

H

This is, if I'm struggling with it. I can't imagine everybody else. You guys you guys. This is a tough.

H

One because of the emotional response involved with this and the fact that the company has a.

H

Right to make money, the community has a right to be a community, so I'll shut up now. Thank you.

F

Thank you anybody else. Thank you, mr chairman, um as the board is well aware, and I believe some.

D

Some folks that testified earlier mentioned there are eight standards that my client must meet in.

D

Order to receive the conditional use approval. The first is that the conditional use complies with.

D

The standards of the district in which it is to be located and the standards applicable to that use.

D

The property is in the rural preservation district, so that is the district that it's in and there are.

D

Specific provisions within our county's zoning ordinance that.

D

I believe are cited in some of the materials that are written, but, to note on one is section 31.1.

D

Which talks about the rural preservation district specifically? And it says that the regulations.

D

Are intended to foster agricultural forestry and mineral extraction uses, so that's clearly within.

D

The purpose of the rural preservation district- that's one of the standards we need to meet.

D

There's also a provision that I think is worth noting in section 30.4.1 a which talks about base.

D

Rural districts generally and rpd is one of those districts. Where there's a comment in the ordinance.

D

And the purposes of those districts to encourage resource-based industries, including mining.

D

Along with forestry and some other ones that are in there, so our ordinance does in the rural.

D

Preservation district specifically encourage this type of use within that district, so we believe.

D

We meet the first standard. The second standard is that the establishment, maintenance and.

D

Operation of the conditional use will not be detrimental to or endanger public health safety.

D

Convenience morals order or general welfare. Certainly we we respect the opinions of the.

D

Folks that have come out. We know that they're very heartfelt and I think people are being sincere and.

D

We're not questioning any of their beliefs on it. I will note that, as mr vuckmer testified to at.

D

The first hearing this did go through the entire tec process. You may recall him testifying about.

D

All the various approvals have been granted by all the different agencies.

D

The mining permit has been issued subject to the approval of this board.

D

And one of the other assurances that was provided, I believe by mr grace and his testimony. The first.

D

Night is that there are at least two inspections a year where the state comes out and does inspect.

D

All the operations, so this is not only an operation that we think meets all the.

D

Requirements of the ordinances- it is one where there's an extra check in place that other uses.

D

Don't have so we think that that weighs in favor of that one, the conditional use will.

D

This is number three: the conditional use will not be injurious to the use or and enjoyment of.

D

Other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes already permitted and will not.

D

Substantially diminish or impair property values within the neighborhood um again we think that.

D

We don't see, we understand that people have strong opinions about this, but there's no evidence.

D

In the record- and we don't believe it would be justified that this in any way will be injurious.

D

To the enjoyment of the of the community, we know that people feel strongly about that. um I can hear.

D

People making comments behind me as I speak, and I know they feel strongly about it, but we would note.

D

That there it is existing force in agricultural use, land, it is within the the uh again. The purpose.

D

Of the rpd, and we think that the proffer that mr sloan and listening to the comments that were made.

D

You know at his expense as willing to to try to make that right and if there's other conditions.

D

The board wishes for us to consider I'm sure he will, but we think that that will also.

D

Benefit that the fourth standard is the proposed use at the proposed location. Will.

D

Not have adverse effects above and beyond those inherently associated.

D

With the proposed use, irrespective of its location within the zoning district,.

D

There's nothing about this property that makes it any different in our eyes than any other rural.

D

Preservation, district property. I know there was some public comment today about the the.

D

Gravel being on the location, respectfully, I don't know anybody that would go through these hearings.

D

As contentious as they've been at times, if they didn't think there were minerals there, that would.

D

Make this a a good operation? Mr grace testified at the last hearing being a representative of sloan.

D

Materials are working there for many years. He said how many years- and I don't recall, also sit here.

D

That you have to mind where the material is, and this is where they've determined it is, and you.

D

Have and the rural preservation district is where it's encouraged to be mined, so we think that.

D

This location is not unique in any way compared to other locations in the rural preservation district.

D

The fifth standard is that adequate utilities, access roads, drainage and.

D

Or necessary facilities have been and or are being provided again I draw the the board's attention to.

D

Both the tec comments and the site plan process that mr sloan and his representatives have gone.

D

Through I believe, the last two years, that process has been been ongoing to where.

D

um We're hopeful that we're we're very near the end of that process seeking the approval tonight.

D

um Also, I'd mention here again the inspections and, I believe the and I may mispronounce this. It was.

D

The the federal agency miss you um is the agency that mr grace testified about would be doing those.

D

Inspections, so all of the the roads that we've talked about all meet the county uh standards and.

D

If you look at all the tec comments in the record that were part of the staff report, there are no.

D

Recommendations from any of the county or state agencies that this not be approved tonight, the.

D

Last, the sixth standard is that adequate measures have been or will be taken to provide ingress and.

D

Egress, following a design that minimizes traffic congestion in the public streets, I draw your.

D

Attention the testimony of our traffic engineers that have testified about that, as well as the tec.

D

Agencies that have reviewed this prior to us being here tonight that have raised no objections.

D

To it, the route was designed specifically to try to minimize the impacts of the road and to have.

D

The loaded trucks spend as little time on morganza turner, as they would need to give them where the.

D

Site is it's going straight out to route 235? I believe the testimonies that would be on the road.

D

The loaded trucks would be on there about a mile before it got to 235 was mr buckman's testimony.

D

At the last hearing and the testimony of our experts is that the roads are adequate for this.

D

We've heard about the lane with um and- and I will note um here- uh it might be a good place to do it.

D

I hope the board recalls mr grice, testifying at the last hearing that mr sloan has been.

D

In business for approximately 30 years and barry can correct me if that number's wrong.

D

um And they have had no personal injury-related accidents in that entire time he's been operating.

D

um His his um operation and and he has other operations- people have testified about him here.

D

I think that is a real testament um to what this applicant does to take safety.

D

Seriously, when you have that many trucks on the road already and they've never had.

D

A personal injury accident I mean that was testimony under oath, but by mr grace earlier.

D

The seventh one is that the proposed conditional use is not contrary to the goals, objectives and.

D

Policies of the comprehensive plan, we believe, in fact it's supported by the plan and I'll note that.

D

In section 5.12 of the comprehensive plan it talks about mineral resource extraction, principally.

D

Mining of sand and gravel is recognized as an important economic activity and regulations.

D

Shall encourage the utilization of these resources and we believe that this approach project not only.

D

Meets the spirit of that part of the comprehensive plan, but also is on all fours with the regulations.

D

That have been adopted in the zoning ordinance to implement that and then the last standard.

D

Is that the conditional use shall and all other respects conform to the applicable regulations.

D

Of the district in which it's located or the special requirements established for the specific.

D

Conditional use, we believe that it does meet all those standards and that it does comply with all.

D

The statutes, as we've referenced through all the tec, comments that are before the board, um so we we.

D

Believe that we meet all of those uh standards and again I sincerely want to say we respect.

D

The comments that were made tonight- this has been contentious that first night we were all here was.

D

Probably one of the more contentious beginnings to a hearing I've ever had, I will say to some of the.

D

Comments um about speaking with individuals, I will say that myself and several members. I think it was.

D

Mr sloane himself did stay in the parking lot, for I think 45 minutes or an hour after that. First.

D

Hearing speaking with the then president of the hoa of grand view, haven and just speaking to him.

D

About it, we didn't reach a resolution. He was still opposed to it. Mr sloane still wanted to go forward.

D

But I don't want this to be taken as that, there's been um a complete shutdown in communication.

D

Because I did witness at least that one instance of it could have been better. It always can be.

D

Probably, but I did have the chance to witness that I mean in some way. We believe that this.

D

Meets all the requirements, I attend a lot of these hearings and I know the board knows that.

D

Often times folks that live near a location come and oppose it, I've been doing this long enough to.

D

Where I represented the folks when grand view haven was being developed and a lot of people.

D

Came out against that neighborhood being put where it is, and now the neighborhood is here objecting.

D

To another use being put down the road, they have every right to be here and raise their concerns.

D

But I sincerely believe that the only way to balance both the needs of the neighborhood.

D

And the needs of the property owner is to make sure that the property owners follow the rules.

D

That are on the books, and we believe that we have shown both through the tec process.

D

And meeting all of the requirements and addressing all those comments that they have.

D

And also in the testimony here tonight that this application does meet those standards, so we'd.

D

Ask that you approve it, and certainly mr sloan is willing to consider and comply with any conditions.

D

That the board has the only final comment. I'll have- and I didn't have this repair, because it.

D

Came up tonight for the first time, certainly if there are any federal or state laws relating to.

D

Bald eagles or any other wildlife, mr sloan will be required to comply with them. I believe all permits.

D

Say you gotta abide by all rules and restrictions. He certainly will do that and if any of those.

D

Issues are identified on his property. um I certainly know that he will and if not,.

D

He'll get in a lot of trouble, but he he certainly would intend to do that and that's just the first.

D

Time it came up tonight so, for those reasons, we'd ask that you approve the application as presented.

A

Thank you very much. I think that concludes the uh bottle and applicant summary. Now it's up to us.

A

To start, I guess a little bit of a discussion and see if we can reach a resolution on which way we.

A

Think we ought to go today. Anybody like to start, I would say it's a public road. It's not a private.

B

Road, it's not a zone or like it's a public road for everybody, school buses and amish public road.

B

And rpd, it's encouraged for mineral extractions they're furling. The volume rules.

H

So with this, I'm definitely torn because I'm very property rights oriented, but I also.

H

See what might be good for the community and with number two number three and number four.

H

Being prime and what I'm looking at safety property values, no adverse effects.

H

You know that's weighing heavily on my mind also so with this one I can say this has been the most.

H

Difficult case we've come across since my short tenure on the board and as an alternate also.

H

Because of some of the things we've decided in the past, where we have gone one way or the other.

H

Because of the community concerns as well, even though the property owner had the right to do.

H

What they were going to do when it came to the vote, the community swayed it one way or.

H

The other, however, this case is a tad bit different in my mind, maybe not so the.

H

Big thing here is: does the property rights guy in me win on this one or does the community guide me.

H

On this one, when it's it's a tough one, one of the things one of the things I think we.

A

Probably might want to look at. First. Are some conditions to improve, improve, impose upon.

A

This conditional use- that's why I call it conditional use, is to say they have to do x, y z,.

A

D and see, if there's a list of those that we can come up with, that may mitigate or some of.

A

The concerns of the surrounding community and I'm like chris, I mean it seems we probably shouldn't.

A

Say this, but a bit ironic, that you know the same community had had a different problem 10 years ago.

A

There's a different different side to the story. Back then.

A

So does anybody want to start off with trying some some conditions.

J

Well, I was going to make a I've been jotting notes all night, and this isn't a prepared statement by.

J

No means so I'll try to muddle through this I'd like to thank mr sloan for trying to provide much.

J

Needed services, but not not just for himself or his drivers for the whole community. I mean the the.

J

Aggregates, it's all citizens, it's not just for a few, and I appreciate that mr sloane volunteered to.

J

To make that circle, I think if it was not for that, I wouldn't be in favor of this at all, because they.

J

Had to make a left turn onto route 5 coming out of morgan's turn road, I think that would be horrible.

J

But by him doing volunteering to to make a circle and not do that, I think it makes it a lot better.

J

I appreciate the letter about the 30 years of service with zero zero dump truck accidents.

J

That mr sloan has done and I'd I'd like to. I don't think anybody else has said this, but he.

J

Operates off a friendship, school road right now and their main route is friendship, school road.

J

And maypole road and both of those roads have the same exact conditions with the amish buggies.

J

And the no shoulders I mean it's, it's very similar and there hadn't been any problems.

J

And I realized that nobody wants to deal with dump trucks. I mean I, you know, I don't want them.

J

Coming down my driveway either, but something that's happened to me personally- is I'm right in.

J

The flight path of the trauma center helicopters leaving the airport and they fly over my house all.

J

Times day and night and and then bad weather, when it's cloudy out and maybe they have to fly lower.

J

But they rattle my windows, but that's a necessity. I mean, and I believe this to be a necessity. I.

J

Think this is something that our citizens need, and I also believe that their project.

J

Has meets all the county and state regulations and that's where I'm at that's her yeah, okay,.

K

So I agree with uh mr bradley: this has been a tough. This has been a tough one.

K

Personally, I don't think that we that mr sloan has been able to meet conditions conditional.

K

Use number two or number six, which is primarily is the safety issue. I think where what we hasn't been.

K

Discussed a lot is the intersection at morgantown turner road. um I that I know everyone's been.

K

Talking about birds and deer and the trail and all that, but my concern would be route 5, because.

K

That is a really really tight turn there. It is also just a blinking light, a red blinking light.

K

So you take your life in your hands when you go there back in august of 2020.

K

Busy corn road was washed out when we had all that rain. It's still not fixed. uh We have sixteen.

K

Hundred and fifty children and the public who use that intersection just just to go to choptakon.

K

High school, that's the only way to get there unless you live on the lower town side. um I I.

K

Just think that this is just extremely dangerous to put 125 trucks at that corner all day long.

K

Just adding that there.

K

The school buses use busy corner road, you you you, they used to come out there. You can see up.

K

The hill towards morganza, you can see up the hill towards uh leonardtown, but they can't do that now.

K

So they pull straight out right there and they have to stop just like you and I do and that.

K

Is a real hazard that they can't use that they would take that little cut off for that little.

K

I I did print off a map if you want to see it, but no maybe you have one but there's a little.

K

Cutoff there and the school buses would take that every single one's a bypass yep, because.

K

That's where they could see, but the way it is now they're not going to be able to see.

K

Personally, I don't know my grandchildren on school bus that has to fight that there, but I don't think.

K

Conditional use two or six has been met.

K

Let me see what the rest of my notes were.

K

And I do I I do commend the truck drivers. um My son drives a dump truck.

K

um He uh I mean it's those men who need to be commended, not necessarily mr sloane. Mr sloan is.

K

Going to meet the minimum requirements that we put forth that I.e a three-foot cypress tree, you may.

K

As well, leave it at the nursery, it's not going to do anything for dust or noise or visual. So.

K

It's great but meeting minimal is not good enough for me. So.

K

That's where I am.

F

Okay, um anybody want to try putting together a list of conditions that may make it palatable well.

J

Okay, I think that's a better way to do it. Then I was wondering if you wanted to just vote on this.

J

And then see where we were and set the conditions or you want to try to well, I think I think we.

A

Ought to think about some conditions right I mean we may find some things that.

A

Change somebody's mind uh or or something else that tickles something in our mind that we want.

A

To add to the add to the list: well, I I took the time to uh put together a little bit of a list.

A

For for a straw, man, we could start throwing darts at.

A

The first one was a buffer around the mining area and I think they came up with that tonight. I think.

A

The other part of that discussion is we've got to say where, from the property line in the areas of.

A

The mining we ought to keep at least a 100 foot undisturbed buffer.

A

So we have the buffer now along the hall road that was presented tonight and then we have. I would.

A

Suggest a 100 foot undisturbed buffer along the property line for the rest of the mining operation.

A

That's number one number two is uh what we had talked about earlier is that there be a maximum of.

A

60, rather than 62 and a half trips per day, loaded of loaded trucks.

A

So we take that 60 it'd be 120 trips and only 60 of them were lowered. I think that's the.

A

Only way to to kind of define that make it clear we're talking about 60 trips loaded, not 60, trips,.

A

Loaded and unloaded, but when the trips were round trip, though you know, there's a but one way when.

A

It's leaving the plant and going out to 235 it's loaded. Yes, when it's coming back from route, 5.

A

It's unloading, yes, so that that's! What I meant to do is try to try to distinguish that.

A

60 trips going and 60 strips coming back; okay, again, that's just a suggestion.

A

um One that I think has been proffered by the applicant is that there be a site.

A

Water trucks on the site to help control dust, not only in the pit itself but along the hall road.

A

The hour of operations, if I'm not mistaken, we're proposed to be monday through friday, 7.

A

30 a.m to 5 p.m. Saturday, 8 a.m, to 12 p.m, for maintenance only, and I would ask that that.

A

Include no loading um and no hauling uh during that that time also and then sunday, no operations.

A

um Another another comment would be no burning on site.

A

Another possible condition would be the new entrance would be.

A

Per county standards paved back, I think it was offered for 120 feet asphalt, paving back.

A

And then a stone construction entrance after the mountable berm, uh as mentioned before, I.

A

Think it's already in the conditional uses that we meet all other state and local approvals.

A

No processing of gravel on the site- I don't think we talked about that, but I don't think it was.

A

Intended but I think we ought to make sure that that's that's that's in there. No actual processing.

A

It's by no sale of the product on site, just for use by sloan only.

A

And if they want to take it to the loveville plant site and sell it there that that that's fine.

A

um Perhaps I need a little help on the brakes. We're talking air brakes, new use of air brakes.

A

In the area, um well, they're only going to be on that road for it for a mile loaded right.

H

Yeah yeah, but that mile is they're still crossing the trail and everything else aren't they.

A

So those were 10 items that I thought of the concern about the eagles and wildlife and a permit.

A

When, when a mining permit goes through and barry correct me, if I'm wrong, when a mining permit goes.

A

To mde one of the things they will do is they will circulate that permit that application, through all.

A

The different agencies of md themselves, they will have a endangered species group, take a look at it.

A

um Sediment control, storm water management, all those will will overlook and oversee.

A

That so I have, I have confidence that the state will do a good job in keeping the.

A

Pits in line where they should be and to make sure they're restored properly, and they have a.

A

Good restoration plan on when the documents that have been submitted, um those were the.

A

That's my two cents. Those were the um items that I thought we ought to talk about or or.

A

Discuss and you all may have more, I I agree what you said. I could go along with all what you said.

J

Is that 120, daily trips yeah instead of 125., is that what yes? Okay, just divide it? Okay,.

H

So, but who's going to enforce this uh truck route, mr knight.

A

If, if there's a violation of the route- and we see loaded trucks going in the other direction,.

A

And it's reported to land use and growth management. They will go through an enforcement.

A

Process with slum first step may be a verbal warning um that you know hey. It's been told, you've.

A

Seen us cut it out, don't do it and then there may be other courses after that. Do you want that and.

A

I can read harry's mind he's saying I want to bring you back to the board. If you want.

A

I'm sorry bring it back to the board. If there's a violation, let the board deal with it.

E

um If, if appropriate, I mean typically, a violation is handled through the municipal, infraction.

E

You know a citation is issued and they're taken to court in order to comply, or else.

K

With all due respect, we've done a lot of setbacks for these car dealerships. That's the next case.

K

And we find, let me finish, please and we find these cars parked right against 235 and.

K

Nobody's enforcing it without you we're not receiving complaints. Ms delahaye, with all due.

E

Respect we are not receiving complaints, we if we don't receive a complaint, we are not going.

E

To investigate that, that's that's, but you gotta just take a drive down. There. You'll see it so.

K

I can't do that. I still think that this is a real safety issue.

K

I really do I don't you know and if you know a set condition, then then mr sling perhaps could fix.

K

Busy corner road, so the buses could could access that more safely. We can't make that excuse me. We.

K

Can't make the hem put a four-way stop light, but the next state, but that's the next. It's a blinking.

K

Red light, that's an intersection of the county road. We can ask that the county portion of the.

A

Road would be widened or be improved. I know the school buses make the turn everything's going to.

K

Stop bpw everything's going to stop there. If you have trucks at the top of the truck, it's gonna be.

E

Speak donnie mills, it's gonna, be a mess. I I just thinking of the director through safety, wise.

K

That's just after my two cents.

B

All right, I think I like the recommendations. You have no, obviously any more guy. Do you think.

A

Yeah I mean I want to agree with ms that the number of trucks going up and down that road.

H

Right now, if that was something that we could look into, because they did say that.

H

That was a peak number, but what's a realistic number, is it 80 trucks? 80 trips I mean let's.

H

Let's get closer to what they actually are looking at, let's see how we can make it safer.

H

We're not trying to hinder sloan and handicap them by saying you can't do this.

H

You can't make business but same time. The community I mean you pointed out school buses, kids.

H

My family and I use that trail, you know and we have almost been hit. It's a concern. It's.

H

A safety concern and I think for number two uh for me number three. Definitely the.

H

Property values and that's something: there's other gravel pits, so you guys would know.

H

Or maybe have a better idea, how it's affected property values and then no adverse effects.

H

um Those are weighing heavily on my mind. The safety is the biggest one.

H

You know it's: it's a messed up situation that the county that we have these roads, that we do.

H

There's everybody complains about all the different roads that we have. It wouldn't be.

H

Fair to make sloan and we couldn't try and fix some of the roads. That's not that's not right.

H

At all, but if there's a way that we can do it with the contingencies, limiting the trucks.

H

Or figuring out, another way to do it, I think we should definitely put those conditions there and.

H

Explore that option, so I'm looking now at the number of trips every day and what is realistic.

H

In the realm of possible, I know you guys went high with 120 saying that that was an optimal.

H

Day, but you also threw out there in the testimony that that is an optimal day. So what's realistic.

H

About 60, oh 60 was just half the 120 that was profited by the uh applicant.

K

You know, you know, time is money, I mean tommy's money and it's like the lady said. I mean they're.

K

Not gonna adhere to 40 miles an hour, yeah they're not going to do that and I drove that road. The.

J

Other day, when you're coming on that trail, I can't drive my truck over 40 miles now, making.

J

That turn I'll run off the road. I drove that just the other day when you, when you pop over that hill.

J

Before that bike lane, you can't go over 40 miles an hour and that's in my pickup, but I mean.

K

And to compare maypole napal road to morgan to turn around, it's not even a fair comparison.

K

Because there's more of traffic on morganza tournament than it is on maypole and and when mr.

K

Keeley, I think it was mr keeley maybe was mr mayor, said um it's not going to change the condition of.

K

The road it is going to change the condition of the road, because now it's a it's a commercial.

K

More of a commercial road with all these trucks, rather than a residential road, I don't know if.

K

That's even a term, but with just homeowners you, you know you lose that road. Just I mean.

K

Run safety, mr chairman, I don't mean to just speak out a turn as to that. I think the ten con.

D

Conditions that were there, uh mr vakmar left to speak to mr sloane, who couldn't be here tonight.

D

Because of the rescheduling, the um that is a real significant cap on the number of trips that he was.

D

Asking for, I think it cut it in a little less than half he is willing to do that. He can. He can make.

D

That work, even though that wasn't what he prepared, because if it's 60 125, was round trip what he was.

D

Proposing so 60 loaded and 60 coming back would really be 60 round trips, as I understood you.

D

Is did I understand what you were? I took the hundred and twenty five to mean sixty two and a.

A

Half trips out sixty two and a half trips and see what it if it wasn't clear what what he was asking.

D

For was 125 round trips, but he so that was what he was hoping for and that's what the application was.

D

Mr sloan's, okay doing what you understood it to be instead and do 60 loaded trips out.

D

60 unloaded back so that's really cutting in half what he was hoping to to have um and he's willing.

D

To do that, he can make that work if that what he would ask, if that is a condition that that be.

D

um Weekly trips- I guess that would be 360 times five a week. So if one day's a little busier and.

D

There's a bad weather day or something another day. If that can be the av, the weekly average, he said.

D

He can make that that work. The only condition that was of significant concern was the hundred.

D

Foot buffer along the entire property line, but by a rough calculation, that's about four acres of.

A

Not not the property line, the mining area, okay, because there's a big chunk of.

A

The property where the house is southward that wouldn't wouldn't require that whatever exists.

A

Exists because that's not going to be mined so maybe mr mr buckman was looking at that.

D

Just making sure he understood that so so uh will the buffer be from where we propose the plantings.

AA

That's right from the end of where you're planning stop by the house on the east. I think it would be.

A

Popular towards the north and then west on the west side of the property.

A

To the end of the mining area, now there may be trees in there and there may not.

A

Be trees in there, but as long as that area is undisturbed. This is what I was proposing. Okay,.

AA

Yeah, I'm not sure I can follow you. Can I bring this up and see exactly where you're sure.

J

While they're discussing that back here along the mining around the mining area,.

A

This area is to be mined and then you get into this area. Here's the buffer.

A

Your mining area stops down here somewhere right about at the field.

A

Yep right about the fold, I think their concern is this is to be mine too. Is it not yes,.

A

But but here here's I'm saying this stays and where that ends, as you pick this up, but just.

E

So you understand that this mining is only 25 feet from that property line, but this is the.

A

Buffer on one health that that exists, okay, so so you're, looking you're looking for a minimum.

A

Listening whatever the existing is the tape that you need you're right here, 100 foot forest here.

E

This is the forest here yeah, but this, for instance, from this mine line to that.

E

Property line is less than 100, so they yeah you'd have to you'd, have to pull it in right.

A

They've got some of that mining out, so that's really the only impact.

A

Right, that's correct! No, no yeah.

E

um So, in the event that we move forward, we're going to capture that as well. Okay,.

A

So any other comments, questions motion. Can we put any condition.

K

For that busy corner road, so the buses can use that road. There.

A

For the morganza bypass that little no, no, not the butt. I don't it's a little one, a little bit.

K

Right yeah, the bypass it's um yeah, the bypass is where right there.

J

I was asking about john dietrich. I thought that was in the works to replace.

E

um Until the end of december right yeah, but I thought that was in the works, I didn't you know.

A

I had heard ends of bypass. I had heard that was in the works being washed out.

J

Here I don't know if the county's going to rebuild that right. But if mr sun does.

E

Public trust he's got lots of gravel, that's what I'm saying. Then the buses will be safe.

K

So if you want to appoint them chairman, mr chairman, um mr madinsky um has come up with.

E

A question he would like to ask the deputy director of public works, who is on zoom.

K

Who's that um with don mills right, yes, don mills.

E

The deputy director for public works yeah. I just wanted to know if that was in the works.

J

To repair that bypass, if it was scheduled or or you know where they were at with that, and if not.

J

Well, let's, let's find out, let's get this, mr mills, did you hear the question.

AB

You're talking about busy corner road, the morgan's attainment bypass, the the bypass that went from.

J

Chopped conroad to route 5. before we continue yeah right hold on just a moment. Donnie mr mills.

A

Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and.

A

Statements, you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do thank you. Okay, go ahead. I was wondering what the status was on.

J

That, where the bridge was washed out efforts, any intention on repairing that anytime soon.

AB

Yes, we do, um it is still on the on the work list to get done um design. I believe this.

AB

Should be finished up um in december, um it'll be the design of the foundation, and things like that.

AB

For this um concrete um box, culvert that'll be a replacement of what was there before.

AB

um It's going to take at least 12 weeks to get the box.

AB

Delivered so it's going to be out a little ways before we actually get to construction on that.

AB

But that is funded that project is funded so that isn't that's coming down the pike. Oh yeah, okay,.

J

Thank you so we're looking at december finished four more months. Three more months.

A

Of initial construction- final construction- after that, so it might be june july before.

A

Next semester, this last excuse me.

A

The spring semester of school- that would be the issue after that it ought to be going to go away.

J

It's going to take a while to get this mining operation up and running too.

J

I mean it's not going to start tomorrow when, when do they anticipate starting mining, do you know.

K

Do you know that? That's something that uh I'm sorry.

AA

We would need to defer to uh randy stein for that yeah, I'm not sure yeah.

B

Let me make a motion sure we can go start from there in the matter of c. U a p number 19-131-021.

B

Sloan gravel mind having made a finding that the standards for granting a conditional use.

B

And objectives of section 51.5, 82 of st mary's county, comprehensive zoning.

B

Ordinance have been met. I move.

B

To approve the request for conditional use, subject to the following conditions with the.

B

Following conditions, you want me to repeat those: yes, yes, because I only got seven there.

A

There will be a buffer around the mining area, as shown on the applicant's exhibit.

E

Or attachment five for attachment, five a and let's call that a we can sure it's got the the changes.

E

So he's it's being passed around now, so everyone can see the um the other condition would be.

J

um In three hours of operation, no a maximum of 300. trips round trips per week.

J

D

Right, 300, I think, is what you had said: 60. so 300 loaded trucks can lead the site each week and 300.

D

Unloaded trucks can return to the site each week, I think, was along the lines of what wait so that.

D

Would be 60 a day for the five days because trucks are not running on saturdays, so they give you.

B

The flexibility for a bad day or a good day right, but but to be clear, you go a weekly account.

E

Well, that's what they were proffering a weekly count, not a daily count.

E

So, just to be clear when the order, if the order is um made for enforcement purposes,.

E

It wouldn't be a daily count. A week's worth of count would take place to determine.

E

Right, four days off and one day of 300 at an extra daily maximum daily amount.

A

That'd be fine; no, wouldn't it be better to have one yeah.

B

So you can have good days and bad days rainy days whatever, and I just have a total week weekly count.

B

Yeah, that's what I'm that's! That was my most yeah and that's the 300 round trips weekly! Yes,.

J

That was that was my condition: yeah okay! Well, let's discuss so that the weather forecast is.

K

Going to snow on friday, so they're going to pile them all up on tuesday yeah. Well, that's that's!.

D

What we are if there needs to be a maximum per day, that that's fine. We would just like some.

D

Flexibility, if possible, that would be the make it 75 with a maximum of 75 per day. That's it.

A

Well, the 300 per week with a maximum of 75 per day, so that they can't have all 300 go.

A

One day they can only have something crazy, that'd, be a caravan no right.

J

That's only 15 more right that ain't gonna make up make up a lot.

J

We'll make it 80., I mean that's still dropping at 40 from 120.

J

Maximum 80 per day: okay, okay, okay, okay, 300 a week 80 per day right maximum.

A

Maximum, yes right, onsite water truck for dust control in the pit and along the hall road.

A

Hours of operation monday through friday, 7 30 a.m to 5 p.m; saturday, 8 a.m, to 12 p.m,.

A

For maintenance, only no loading, mining or hauling on that saturday and sunday no operations at all.

A

Number: five: no burning on site.

A

Number six: the entrance is to be per county standards, the axe, the hall.

A

Road shall be paved back, 120 feet to the shown, um berm burn, and then there will be.

A

A stone construction entrance in accordance with the soil conservation service details.

A

uh All other state and local approvals shall be met. No processing of gravel on the site.

A

No sale of products on site.

A

And use of air brakes shall be.

A

Limited denied.

A

A

Somebody give me a word, I think we can do that.

H

How could you do that? I don't think we could do that. We can't.

B

Redesign a truck yeah! Why not.

A

Okay, something that something that that could help us there, then with the book well,.

E

In terms of trying to enforce, if, if there's not an um a specified quantity, distance, location.

E

How would someone judge that they didn't conform to that condition.

A

Unless somebody has a better idea, I can, I can drop that one.

A

Now does anybody else have any suggestions.

H

Do we have any concerns about the water table for people who use wells.

K

Of the trees, the height of the trees shown.

A

The cypress trees shown along the plan will be, what did you say, barry five feet, six few feet.

A

Where me, he said three, he said three, but he said they would do five or six yeah. Okay, six, six, six.

E

Six foot legal in cyprus, yes, six feet and they will will be maintained and replaced if they die.

J

As necessary, yes,.

E

If that made 10 now we're back to 10., do we have any concerns about water table for the homeowners.

H

That have wells they're not doing any gravel washing. They have no control over the water table.

A

And again, I I think maybe we we may need a presentation for maybe the health department.

A

About wells wells, even an individual well, is more than likely 250 300 feet down to the aquifer.

A

Okay, there is above that, a clay layer that prevents anything from going down and there's.

A

A clay layer on the bottom that prevents this aquifer from dripping out um the aquifer is.

A

Recharged up around frederick maryland and the water comes down into that seam of gravel and.

A

Whatnot and continues to float in this area. The water in that in that aquifer is relatively old.

A

And it is managed by the state that they allow so many taps into that.

A

At so many gallons per day per tap so that they can judge when that aquifer.

A

Is going to be too low and they maintain that they can only. They will only go down 15.

A

Of the aquifers depth, the rest will be maintained for future emergency uses, yeah.

A

We ought to get somebody from health department who explained that better than I just did.

E

That was pretty good and we actually do have a pretty good presentation. We could share with the.

E

Board um on the subject of aquifers but and as ms delahaye corrected me at the wash plant hearing.

E

There are shallow wells in some of these communities, and um but the wash plant was.

E

A consumer of water- and here, um if you know, if you wanted to specify it's recycled, isn't it.

E

Well, they were also having a well and correct me if I'm wrong a ground water appropriation.

E

Permit correct yeah yeah because you have to wash the gravel here: they're they're.

E

They're leaving it unwashed and taking it to the wash plant right right. My second emotion.

A

Made the motion, second, all in favor aye. No, I yes, no three to two. The motion passes.

A

An order reflecting the board's decision will be prepared by staff.

A

And signed by the board within 60 days, a 30-day period follows from the date.

A

30-Day period follows from the date the order is signed during which any ag aggrieved party.

A

May appeal the board's decision to circuit court.

A

The reporting secretary will marry a copy of the order when it has been signed.

J

You want to take a break, oh sure,.

J

Or or you want to just wait a minute, yeah wait a minute: do you have permission.

J

Want to improve the minutes sure, let's do that.

A

Okay, we have minutes from the meeting of october 14 2021 for approval and they've been included in.

A

Their packages does anybody have any comments, questions concerns or a motion to approve.

A

I'll make a motion we approved a minute second, all in favor, aye, aye aye. Thank you all and we have no.

A

Orders for this evening and we do have a draft board of appeals, 2022 monthly public hearing.

A

Schedule- and that has been passed out to you also, we start with next month's meeting december.

A

19Th and we go through january 12, 2023.

A

Anybody have any concerns with this. Otherwise I'll take a motion to approve.

B

And make a motion improve this schedule? Second, I'm in favor no hi. Thank you all very much.

A

You need to start the next item or you guys want to take a break.

A

uh We might want to get started and give them a little more time. Okay,.

J

At least open it up.

A

Okay: let's do that.

A

I guess we gotta wait until.

A

The lawn mower comes back so that he's here, here's everything- oh mr lawnmower- he just stepped out.

A

You have the um aaron, you have the official copy of this if the one that they were passing around.

A

But with the one that was marked up, oh here you have it. Oh my gosh, you don't.

K

Get to keep it for yourself, I don't know where it is um I'll, recognize it. That's it.

J

How about this one, that's the one! Okay, all right make sure it gets to the secretary's hands.

A

Somebody picked me up.

A

Yes, okay, um the next case that we have is vaap 2100,.

A

Toyota of southern maryland- and uh I guess we're going to start with stacy harry.

A

Okay, presenting the case we've not been signed in.

E

Or I'm sorry sworn in, didn't I swear you in earlier? No because we didn't testify, I'm sorry.

A

If you would raise your right hand, stand and raise your right hand.

A

Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do thank you.

C

Tonight, we're here to hear baap 21-0038 toyota of southern maryland. They are asking for a variance.

C

From section 63.3, the buffer yard scheduled 63.3, a buffer yard standards um to reduce a previously.

C

Approved 30-foot type-c buffer yard to a 12 foot, type c buffer yard along maryland route, 235.

C

The legal ad was printed in the local newspaper southern maryland, news.

C

On october, 29th and november 5th and the applicant posted the property and sent notifications.

C

To the neighbors within 200 feet on or before november 3rd.

C

The property owner is 235 realty llc, mr jd blackwell, is here along with christopher longmore.

C

As their agents, the property is also are located at 22500. Three notch road in california.

C

This land use is mixed, use, medium intensity, which leads us to its zoning of medium.

C

Intensity mixed use, district, the property consists of 7.223 acres, yep, 7.223 acres.

C

It has two existing car dealerships with them service centers on each one.

C

The applicant is proposing to remove the curbing within a.

C

Within a portion of the existing parking lot adjacent to 235, to construct an additional.

C

57 parking spaces which will intrude into the previously approved buffer yard. The.

C

Minor site plan has been reviewed by the tec or the technical evaluation committee.

C

Properties located at 225003 notch road in california.

C

Just north of the base gates and great end located between chancellor's run and great mills, road.

C

Landrieu's map is medium use, mixed use, medium intensity.

C

And the zoning is also medium intensity, mixed use, as you can see, adjacent property.

C

Or properties or the same zoning, here's the existing conditions for the property.

C

We have the original toyota of southern maryland car dealership here and right along the 235.

C

Property line is where they are seeking the buffer variants.

C

Here's the original state highway plot that set their right away back farther than the.

C

Adjacent properties, as you can see, we've got two triangular pieces of property here.

C

This is an ownership of the national mobile homes across the street.

C

And this property was owned by mr millerson, as he is also located across the street.

C

So when they went to expand the right-of-way in 1974, they created, um if they did just the standard.

C

70 foot setback or from um right away line, it would have created this little triangular piece.

C

Left in mr millerson's possession so, instead of just having an unusable piece of property.

C

They took it all: okay, okay- and this is their proposed buffer yard plan, and that's that little.

C

Triangular piece of property, just to give you some reference and they are proposing a.

C

uh 12 foot type c buffer yard along the 235 um right away. Okay, we have our different buffer.

C

Yard standards for reference a b and c these are the tree um plantings and what's required.

C

And we also have the standards, and then I got each one individually for reference if needed. Okay,.

C

Any questions, no! No! Yes, no.

A

When the site plan was originally approved and you had a transportation character corridor and a.

A

Commercial use didn't that dictate a larger buffer when the um it was included in the.

E

Attachments when the car dealership was originally approved, it requested a buffer yard variance.

E

Reduction at that time and was granted one okay, so it was granted a buffer yard destruction from.

A

What the original from what the zoning ordinance would have dictated, which would have been 65 feet.

A

Type, a buffer b buffer excuse me it would have been a b buffer 5b and so that 65-foot buffer.

A

Was reduced to a 30-foot buffer and now we want to reduce it below a type, a buffer to 12 feet.

E

They're requesting a 12-foot type c, so that would be planted more intensely than a type a.

E

But but you are corrected, the width is smaller than a type. A one of the tec comments asked.

A

What was the parking requirement for the site and what will the parking requirement be with this.

F

Change well: the parking requirement is based on this on the use and the size of the building. So.

E

The building's not changing size, so the parking requirement um has not increased nor decreased.

E

It has not decreased well the parking lot in order for the requirement to change the.

E

Dimensions of the building would have to change. I understand, okay, so that that would.

E

And they're causing no changes to the building. We can have more required parking on site than.

A

The minimum well um you're using the word required so the required parking is is, is.

E

A mathematical equation based on the use and the size of the building, so the with the size.

E

Of the building does not change, and the use does not change. The required parking does not change.

F

But the provided parking, the right, the requested parking may exceed the minimum required. However,.

E

The planning director himself can approve deviations from the minimum required parking.

E

So they're not seeking uh variance from the quantity of parking spaces. That's not the.

E

Subject at hand right: okay, can we go back to the map the site plan? Okay, the site flame, which.

C

That one, so so the number of spaces that are being requested are on 235. Yes,.

C

They're all located right so in here double parking. This is a question for applicant.

K

Okay, so what are you gonna? I guess what are the parking spaces being used for.

K

Well, I mean, I know cars but display cars of visitors.

K

Customers, uh you, I agree with you, that's a good question for the applicant okay, okay, okay,.

C

I was just asking if there were any questions, one more question: while we're there.

A

Is there a certain minimum area landscaping requirement yes and apparently the site does.

E

Meet the minimum landscaping because they're not seeking a variance from that standard. Okay, even.

A

With the islands that are going to be removed that have landscaping in it, that's my understanding.

E

According to our commercial plan review staff, the only variance required is the buffer yard. Okay,.

F

Any other questions, no sure any other proffers from you all or did you reach.

E

The end of the process- yes, I wrote in yeah next, mr longmore that'll be mr blackball, mr.

A

Blackwell, did she get you this presentation? No, I have nothing yeah hand, her your flash drive.

E

In the name, you can help make sure she finds it. Okay,.

AC

There should only be one file that you can maybe a folder.

C

Okay and it's not reading it.

C

Yeah, it's not reading it is there a way for me to email it to you.

AC

Is that it right there? No, no, these are printers, and usually we don't have any troubles.

C

There we go okay, the powerpoint right there may check yep got it: okay, okay,.

A

Mr blackwell, would you stand first, just a second raise your right hand.

A

Ear here right, there's, fine and repeat after me or answer: do you declare an affirm under.

A

The penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do thank you, have a seat and go ahead forward.

AC

Okay, so do I click them or do I just it just indicate and you get to follow along.

AC

um Hello, thank you. My name is j.d blackwell and, as already said, I'm an agent and I have been for.

AC

Several years now, as the toyota of southern maryland and team, hyundai people have been.

AC

Creating new infrastructure for their car dealerships, so um so, who are we next slide.

AC

um As I already just said, team toyota, southern maryland and team hyundai.

AC

This is an aerial view showing what the site looked like a little more.

AC

About a year and a half ago, so you see the original toyota site, the original hyundai site.

AC

And a new site next door that we started developing at the very end of 2017..

AC

And while we're here, because this picture makes a really good presentation of this, if you see.

AC

On the left side in front of the site that we've now paved on that site, you can see that there's.

AC

There's um our buffer is there, and so is the land that's owned by the state. If you look over in.

AC

Front of the old site you'll see it's much deeper and that's because there's 30 feet of state-owned.

AC

Land between not the road but the curb and our property line, and then there is our 30-foot buffer.

AC

That is in addition to that. So, if you look at that right there, the left side beats the buffer.

AC

That we're required to have in the state land you'll see how that's thin and on the right side,.

AC

You'll see it's much thicker so that that helps illustrate that idea right now: okay! Well, while.

J

We well, we have this picture sure, because this is a problem with me and I think miss delay too.

J

There are big vehicles parked in front there. What, where are they parked at? I mean what.

J

Property are they on I'm, not I'm not sure. What's referring to this photo right here, I'm counting.

J

uh One one two, three, four: five: six seven vehicles parked in front of the uh buffer.

AC

The ones that are right next to route 235, yes, it does appear that they're parked on state land.

J

So they're parked in state right away. Yes, they are.

I

Okay, next time, next page, so just as a preface to this in the further conversations.

AC

uh The plan that we've been pursuing for years has been changing.

AC

In part initially because of covet and then because of all the supply chain, issues and.

AC

Then, frankly, because there's a change in the industry and because of different franchise.

AC

Opportunities, so those things have been changing over time, so we started one idea back in 2017-18.

AC

And where our intentions today are very much different, based on changing conditions.

AC

So what we're after today is a reduction in our buffer yard requirement.

AC

This allows us to meet so hyundai, which is a brand we currently have, and we intend to build.

AC

On that site that looked like it was under construction.

AC

We originally intended to put something there. Then we started pursuing a different franchise to go.

AC

There that franchise isn't going to happen for us now so now it's our intention to put.

AC

We hope to put hyundai and their new electric car franchise on that site, so we're looking for a.

AC

Buffer require a buffer yard requirement reduction so that we're able to meet their dealership.

AC

Requirements and be able to build a new hyundai building meeting their new um image requirements.

AC

And the new requirements to have a electric car franchise hyundai is introducing a new sub-brand.

AC

Called ionic and we're excited about that, but there's requirements that they have in terms of.

AC

The building image which isn't really a subject for here but, more importantly, a total number of.

AC

Parking spaces, and currently we don't have the ability to get to their requirement.

AC

So that's just a picture of the new ionic brand. That's coming.

AC

And in theory is supposed to show up late, this quarter, it hasn't arrived yet, but they've said.

AC

There'll be five new models in the ionic electric car brand sometime next year.

AC

So this is literally our requirement list and it tells us that what they require us to have.

AC

For this particular marketplace, if you look at the bottom that I highlighted in red is 308 cars.

AC

So back when we initially built the dealership.

AC

In approximately 2007, our requirement for hyundai by itself was 210 parking spaces dedicated towards.

AC

The hyundai dealership now hyundai and ioniq, the new requirement for us is 308, so we didn't.

AC

Have enough what we built then to meet it and as you'll see in a minute, even with the new.

AC

Property that we bought next to wawa, all of it together, we still don't meet the requirements.

AC

In fact, even with the variance, we won't quite get there, but we'll get real close.

AC

So why is this an appropriate request on our part? We think the site is unique, certainly not the only.

AC

Site but it's not very common that there be such big buffer yards between the curb line and our.

AC

Property line, when I think about other dealerships like the nissan dealership or the new ford.

AC

Dealership, their properties come right up to those curbs or real close to them. In our case, there is.

AC

It's variable width, but it's approximately 30 feet. I think it's about 28 or 29 on one end and close.

AC

To 40 at another point like where that triangle was, and then it comes back to about 35., so there.

AC

Is in, in effect, this 30 foot green space between the curve and where our property line starts.

AC

So this picture here is how the site looks currently, so we have the old dealership, the.

AC

The toyota dealership, the hyundai dealership and the new site that we for the last couple.

AC

Years thought we were going to have developed for a different brand, originally right there, where I.

AC

Point the blue, that was where we thought we'd be putting a building when covet happened. We just.

AC

Paved it over to sit on it for a while until we figured out where everything was going.

AC

So this shows you our current condition, but even with that new.

AC

Newly purchased area over there we still need more parking spaces. We plan to build them a.

AC

New building there, a third building on these properties and but to meet the requirements.

AC

For the new hyundai and ionic electric car brand, we still don't quite get to enough parking spaces.

AC

And again you can see that there's a much bigger space in front on the right side because of that.

AC

Real big space that the state owns and I should say we've approached- we've been trying to talk to.

AC

Them for years about purchasing it, the governor had a directive to various departments to sell.

AC

Land that wasn't needed or used, and so we thought that was going to help us because.

AC

We thought we'd reach out to them, try to buy the land from the curb back and that would make.

AC

This a whole lot easier of a conversation but and eventually initially, I thought it was going to.

AC

Have some progress with it, but eventually it just sort of petered out nobody. There seemed to.

AC

Care very much, but we did go down that path for a year of trying to require that extra.

AC

Land that the state that's just green space, that's not really pertinent to the state.

AC

And I say not really pertinent: they are using it for some drainage out by the front edge, but it's.

AC

Very common for state highway drainage to be on other people's properties to have easements there.

AC

And so this is the site plan showing old, the two old buildings and the new area where the.

AC

New building would be and that green right there shows you the little bit of state land on the left.

AC

You bring the cursor over. Do you see how much state land they own on that portion of us.

AC

But then, back over on the rest, you see all the other state land on that side.

AC

Thank you in this picture. It shows you our buffer on the left side.

AC

In front of the new parking lot, new building and the current buffer in state land on the right.

AC

And then for the next picture, that's what it would look like. The state land plus the the buffer that.

AC

We're asking for that's what it'll look like if you were to grant the the variance so you'll.

AC

See that it's it doesn't quite line up, but it gets more continuous across the entire front.

AC

And so that's the actual building that our architect's almost done designing the one on the.

AC

Far left that says 283, that's the actual footprint of the building that we're about to turn in.

AC

That meets the hyundai and ionic ev car motif and size requirements for the building.

AC

And then uh that blue line in the middle is how we plan to divide up the car spaces. The.

AC

Right side will be the dedicated toyota area. The left side would be the new hyundai and ionic area.

AC

So, on the left side, even with with the variants that gives us 25 more cars for that side than.

AC

What we currently have on the right side, we've got 32 new spaces to meet the toyota numbers.

AC

And so that's how the car spaces work out, and so let me go to the next page.

AC

So we get to 283 our requirements, 308 we're hoping that they'll approve it.

AC

Because it's close, it's not all the way there, but it's close.

AC

One of the things that's important to them is to have everything on site.

AC

And one of the things that matters to us, it helps for it to all be on site. To answer your specific.

AC

Question by the way from earlier, it's display spaces. I think one of the things that harry was.

AC

Sort of touching on earlier is that there's a certain number of parking spaces for the.

AC

Employees and that kind of stuff, but the rest of a car dealership, isn't they look like parking.

AC

Spaces, but it's really display space, so there's a difference between how much space we're allowed to.

AC

Have or need to park park inventory and then there's a difference for the category. That's.

AC

The functionalness for the building, so those are display spaces to hold inventory and so.

AC

If you were to approve the variance, as we ask it, we get pretty close to the requirement. I also.

AC

Should mention right now that these parking spaces are impervious papers, so it's not new.

AC

It is asphalt-ish, but it will be an impervious asphalt and stone system so that the storm water.

AC

Will go and will go in the ground there first and then there's a whole lot of different parts.

AC

To storm water- and I certainly don't understand it- won't get into it, but the first phase of the.

AC

Storm water management is pervious pavement where the water goes in the ground out. There.

AC

Okay, next page, thank you, and so we still have to worry about meeting our toyota requirements.

AC

Because they also have a new electronic brand, a new electric car brand coming soon.

AC

As in 2023 called bz below zero, and we are paying a whole lot of attention to our parking for.

AC

Toyota, because we want to make sure we meet the requirements so that we can obviously keep that.

AC

But we're able to get that electric car brand as well, so our current requirement for them is 321.

AC

And this plan would let us get to 311 so again we're real close.

AC

Okay, so what do we need? We need to ask you to approve our motion to reduce that buffer.

AC

And so I think that pretty much explains it. If you would, can we back up to the picture that shows the.

AC

Yeah that picture right there, so this one shows exactly what we think it would look like.

AC

With the buildings with the new building, we're about to turn in the architecturals for.

AC

As well as the additional spaces, and if you look up there, where 25 and 32 are that's the.

AC

Space that we're asking for and- um and I think that is- I think that probably since we have.

AC

It's already pretty late, oh there's a whole lot more. I could say, but I think maybe that.

AC

That conveys it and I'll. Let you guys start asking me questions if you have any.

J

My biggest problem and everybody on the board knows this already. I evidently state right away.

J

But I don't like the fact: we approve a buffer yard and then brand new trucks and vehicles parked in.

J

The state right away out in front of the buffer- it just doesn't seem right to me understood um so as.

AC

I act as sort of an engineering liaison it's hard for me to address that. If that's something that.

AC

You'd like to talk about once we get done talking about the technical stuff, if you'd like I can.

AC

Have the owner of the dealerships here we can ask him to join us and we can chat about that myself.

J

Personally, there's no way I'll prove this, unless we can address that. Okay, because that just it just.

J

Slaps me in the face every time I ride by there and we go through all this. You know, meetings and.

J

Whatnot to approve this to try to help everybody involved, you know try to help the county and what.

J

It's proposed to do and then, when you ride down the road you see, new trucks well walked out in the.

J

Front I completely respect that concern um and I'd happily chat with you about it, but I'd probably.

AC

Sort of be out of my arena, so if you don't mind what I suggest is if there's other aspects of sort.

AC

Of what we're requesting, maybe let me talk about those and propose them, and then we can certainly.

AC

Talk with the owner of the property, I suspect, he'll be very willing to address that for him.

J

Well, you know, I don't know, I wouldn't say: let's see if there's questions from the board members.

A

You'll give them mr blackwell yeah and he'll come back at a time set to bring the owner back to do.

A

That he's here he's he's here, he'll hear and I'm sure he'll happily come up and chat with him. So.

H

Looking at the word, space counts, yep, the um forgive me I don't have my reading glasses. Your.

H

Blue line there's uh space behind that building there, where you've got two rows of cars going up.

H

So if you look at the map up there, your blue line that angles off just at the end right there, where.

H

She's pointing yep: what's that space back there, that space is an area that we use for detailing so.

AC

If you look at the current it's could you slide your cursor, bring it forward just a.

AC

Little bit forward awesome straight over to your right to the right right now come down with it.

AC

So we have right in that area we have three bays where we do all the car washing. So that's what.

AC

We're doing there to sort of get the cars prepped and ready to go out now. If you move back to the.

AC

Space he's talking about this area back here is an area we have to reserve for third party.

AC

What we do is clean and wash the cars, but over there we have detailing, and that is where somebody.

AC

Might come into and put in a new windshield, so it's not all the other places where we're parking.

AC

Where staff is parking or customers are parking or display, cars are parked, but in that area.

AC

Back there we've got it fenced off, because we don't want customers to see it necessarily and.

AC

It's not perfect; sometimes they certainly do. We have to do it in other places, but that's where.

AC

Somebody might come out to do touch-up paint or somebody installs, a new windshield or somebody.

AC

Comes out to remove tires to touch up the paint on the rims and stuff, so the site really doesn't.

AC

Have any other any other place where we can do that kind of third-party touch-up stuff? So we've.

AC

Reserved that corner back there for that kind of activity, it's where third-party people are doing.

AC

Detail work other than it work the mechanics work on an engine or the people that clean them.

AC

For sale, okay, thank you and, and with respect to, I think what you're hinting at with that. I.

AC

Have spent years trying to figure out how on these different sites to hit these numbers, because we've.

AC

Known it was happening, and the hyundai number has grown over time because the opportunity to get.

AC

The ionic electric car brand has just happened in the last six months and originally we thought we'd.

AC

Put it somewhere else, but that isn't working out so we're we obviously really care about.

AC

I won't say it's the first electric car to get sold here, but it'll be the first.

AC

Real brand be the first real, multiple models, dedicated image and all that kind of stuff. So.

AC

We're very excited about being able to have it so we're working as hard as we know how to to get it.

AC

And just so that it's super obvious, there's a benefit to the business, to have it all together.

AC

But there's also the the logicalness of not having to go, create something somewhere else, because that.

AC

Impact is much bigger than just adding on these spaces. In this case, it's not the greatest thing.

AC

To have cars parked too deep because you have to move a car to get to something right. But it's very.

AC

Efficient and it minimizes our overall, you know impact on other stuff. Okay, like it would take five.

AC

Times as much land somewhere else to accomplish this, that we're accomplishing in this little place.

B

He said: there's there's two types of park: there's parking spaces and there's display.

B

Paces are they the same size? Yes in general, yes, yeah. The typical car space is nine by 18.

AC

Mostly that's what a car space is and that's what we've done here, mostly yeah. So the answer to the.

B

Question they're basically the same then. Yes, they are yeah, there's a few spaces that are or eight.

AC

And a half there for compact cars are allowed to be eight and a half and because some of hyundai.

AC

Is compact cars there's a few spaces on our lot that actually happen to be eight and a half.

AC

Because it made more sense to do a few of those you know, based on how much room we.

AC

Had to work with, but by and large the lot these spaces. Ninety percent of them are nine by 18.

B

Could you put up on the slide again the two slides to show the green in the front? The the current.

B

What the other that's that's! The current word is that the new one that would be the proposed.

AC

Yeah, that would be the proposed and the one before it. That would be the current. That shows you how.

AC

Much green space there is how much separation we have we're, of course, proposing to have the same.

AC

Quantity of trees, some of the trees that are there, we don't have to take out, but we you know we'd.

AC

Have to add to it, but this gives you a sense of the green separation and from the curb back to us.

K

Are you taking curbing out in right along that edge like right through there curbing.

AC

Will come out yeah the curb comes out, so is that an egress into the car? No, it means right.

AC

Now, where you normally would park the car up come in there, that's full! Yes, you come.

C

In here right yeah, you pull in there and here and there your entrance lose that no, no none of.

K

That just you're just making it narrow, they're, not they're, I'm sorry but they're not adjusting.

E

The state highway entrances. Okay, that's I guess that's my question. Thank you. The curb you drive.

AC

Up against to park, your car will get taken out to make it a little deeper. Okay, gotcha.

B

By looking at the two slides, the the curtain sets from 30 feet down to 12 feet. So that's.

B

A little more than half a reduction and you're there to make business.

AC

I'm sorry you're there to make business and show and show cars. Yes, yep.

AC

And and it and I, and I think it's important that that we highlight one little detail, would.

AC

You go to the car kennel page.