St. Mary's County, MD Board of Appeals for St. Mary's County, 8 Apr 2021

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From YouTube: 4/8/21 Board of Appeals for St. Mary's County

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Good evening this is the april 8 2021 meeting of the st mary's county board of appeals. We.

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Are located in the commissioner's conference room meeting room of the chesapeake building.

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41770 baldridge street leonardtown maryland I'm dan igneowski chairman, and there are four.

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Other members here tonight so we do have a quorum and we'll continue with the meeting.

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The public public meetings are now open to the public within this building. As long as social.

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Distancing guidelines can be maintained and the commissioner's meeting room capacity limits do.

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Not exceed 32 people, everyone in attendance must wear a mask at all times, except when speaking.

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The social distancing guidelines or occupancy room capacity limits cannot be followed. The.

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Meeting may be rescheduled, applicants and or their representatives are participating both in person.

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And through zoom teleconference, the public is encouraged to view the meeting on channel 95.

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Or the county's youtube channel also, the public may just listen to the meeting on their phones.

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But not speak to the board by calling one three zero one: five, seven, nine.

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Seven two three six and then use the access code. Three, not three excuse me: nine six.

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Three four: four: three again: the access code is 963-443, followed by the pound sign. If a member.

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Of the public would like to participate by talking to the board during the public testimony portion.

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Of the meeting, please call the following number 300, 301-475-4200 extension, one two, three four.

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When you call this number, ms sherry young recording secretary, will ask your name.

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Address phone number and email- in other words, this will be a virtual sign-in sheet. Ms young.

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Will place you in line on hold after I announce that I am opening the meeting to public testimony.

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You will be able to talk and ask the board questions or make your comments.

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For both in-person or call-in, you will be asked to state your name and address for the record, and I.

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Will swear you in you will have three minutes to ask your questions or make your comments directly.

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To the board, your comments will be recorded and heard by those of us in the chesapeake building.

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Zoom participants, channel 95 and on youtube after the public comment portion of the meeting.

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Is over the case will return to the board for discussion and decision.

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And we will proceed right now with a roll call and I'll ask the commission members to.

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Identify themselves beginning on the right wayne madinski and again, I'm dan iknowski john brown.

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Good evening, steve scott board attorney and also in the audience we have mr guy bradley.

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Who is the ultimate member of the board and we have the saint mary's county, supporting.

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Staff that are in attendance, mr harry knight, land use and growth management, deputy director.

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Stacy clements land use and growth management planner three.

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Neil murphy, I saw sneaking- and he is the saint mary's county government, deputy county attorney.

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Joining us in the media control room is amy carter, st mary's county video media producer and then the.

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Adjoining savage conference room public phone calls to the board sherry young board, recording.

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Secretary and I do we have mr hunt- he is not here this evening and then also public works folks.

C

um They did not think any of the cases warranted their attendance. Okay. uh Excuse me, mr chair.

B

Yes, yes, I'm sorry to interrupt. I got a text from uh chris longmore. He says.

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We can hear everything, but we are not seeing anything on zoom did they start.

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Video um well, the zoom meeting is in place. um So amy are you able to show the video on zoom.

D

Mr chairman, we can see it now. It just came out after you said that.

B

Okay, thank you chris. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay can't see chris.

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He's turned off um the appellant applicants, interveners and representatives are all here.

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Tonight so as we go through the meeting and your case comes up, we'll swear you in.

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For any testimony be given the three public hearings that we have tonight are the briner.

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Property vaap202477 hodgkin's property, vaap202089 and sloan gravel wash plant cuap2.

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Before we start the hearing for the viewers at home, you will be able to see the staff.

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And applicants, presentation on channel 95 or youtube these presentations are being shown.

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As these are being shown, you can also see the documents that have been submitted for this case.

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By going to board docs, miss clements will now demonstrate how to locate and use board docs stacy.

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Okay, this might be a little clunky we're using zoom for the first time. Okay share my screen.

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And let's see: let's go okay, can we see that.

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It looks like you're sharing your screen on soon, yes, beautiful, okay, first, we'll.

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Start off with going to st mary's md.com, that's s-t-m-a-r-y-s-m-d.com, and once there you will.

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Slide over to the board docs tab on the right-hand side, it will take a few moments for it to load up.

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That is normal.

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Okay, once this loads.

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We're going to find tonight's meeting, which is the thursday april 8th board of appeals, meeting.

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Okay and in the center, we want to go down to the bottom to view agenda.

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And, on the left hand, side we'll give you all the cases we're seeing.

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Got the briner hodgkins and sloane case tonight once you pick one of the.

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Cases you will see it pop up in the center screen, where you can view all the attachments.

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There we go that's just the deed, for example. Okay, any questions no ma'am.

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Thank you very much stacey welcome. um We will now begin with the first case tonight.

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And we have that listed as the briner property and what I would first like to do is hear the.

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Staff presentation and I would like to swear who's, giving it in, or maybe both of you if you.

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Would swear us both in both sherman? If you both please stand and raise your right hand.

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Do you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony.

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Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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I do I do thank you, you may pursue I'll make sure everybody can see what I see on my screen.

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Oops like that over here, I didn't. Did you stop sharing the other thing now, when you zoom back.

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Okay share screen: oh, I know what I'm doing. Okay, so we're doing. Briner first.

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Can you see that amy.

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Okay, there we go okay.

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I think you're sharing yep, I'm just checking over there. Okay, okay, perfect! Thank you for.

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Your patience this week as we learn the new software okay, uh tonight's.

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Public hearing of april 8 2021 we're here to hear the briner property vaap 20-24-77.

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They're asking for a variance from section 71, 0.8 0.3, disturb the critical.

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Area buffer to raise an existing house to meet the current flood production elevation standards.

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The legal ad and property were posted, or, while the legal ad was posted in local newspapers,.

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Southern maryland news on march, 8th or 19th and 26th of this year, the applicant posted the.

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Property with sign notifications and mailings to the neighbors um prior to march 24th, 2021.

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The owners of the property are john and julie.

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Bryner, the property is located at 23480 river hill court in lexington park.

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It is 1.27 acres and has an existing house with an attached garage. They are proposing to raise.

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An existing house to meet the current flood protection elevation standards.

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The health department and land use and growth management have approved the site plan.

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And the critical area commission commented on it on 12 4, 2020.

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The property is located at 2340, 480 river here river hill court in lexington park. It's in town.

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Creek subdivision it's in the rnc, also known as the residential neighborhood conservation zoning.

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The property is located within the lda or limit or limited development area.

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For its critical area, overlay.

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And they also have hydric soils and highly erodible soils impacting.

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The um site- let's see if I can see my pointer on your displays.

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No, I can see it, you can: okay, okay, here's the yeah stacy! I can see it. This is correct.

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Okay, thank you, chris okay, here's the 100 whoops, I lost it. There we go 100 foot, critical area, buffer.

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Here's the division between the tidal marsh and the ewd2 soils which are highly erodible.

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Okay, so the buffer would expand to the hydric and then up to 300 feet to include the highly erodible.

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Which lands it right about here? Okay, which would encompass less than 50 percent of the property.

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Okay, here's the site plan. As you can see, the lod is just existing a pathway around the house.

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And here's a up close and detailed they're proposing to put.

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Silk fence around the downhill side and along with a 2 300 square foot, limits of disturbance or lod.

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Emphasis on temporary disturbance, yes,.

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Okay, their mitigation would be for the 2300 square feet of temporary disturbance that.

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Would be a one-to-one mitigation and a mitigation plan will be approved by.

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Department staff prior to the issuance of the building permit.

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The standards for granting a variance in the critical area.

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Before a critical area and variance can be granted, the board of appeals must find the following.

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A that a special condition or circumstances exists that are peculiar to the land or the structure.

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Involved and that the strict enforcement of the critical area provisions of this ordinance would.

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Result in unwarranted hardships and b the strict interpretation of the critical area provisions.

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Of this ordinance will deprive the applicant of rights commonly enjoyed.

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By the other properties in similar areas within the critical area of saint mary's, county and c.

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The granting of the variants will not confer upon an applicant any special privilege that would be.

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Denied by the critical area, provisions of this ordinance to other lands or structures within.

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The critical area of saint mary's, county and d, the variance request, is not based upon conditions.

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Or circumstance that are best results that are the results of actions by the applicant.

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And e, the granting of the variance will not adversely affect water quality or adversely.

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Impact the fish wildlife or plant habitat within the critical area and that the granting of the.

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Variants will be in the harmony with the general spirit and intent of the critical area program.

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And lastly, f: the variance is the minimum necessary to achieve a reasonable use of land or structures.

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Are there any questions? Yes, one question? Okay. I have not been to the property, of course, but I'm.

F

Looking at the mitigation, I'm assuming that there's landscaping flower beds.

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Azalea bushes, are we really asking for mitigation for them to move their flower beds out to the side.

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And we're going to make them plant trees on the mitigation for their flower beds,.

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I can take it well within the lod to access the house underneath they would have to disturb the.

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Vegetation around the foundation of the house, but the vegetation is probably what they bought at.

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Meadows or somewhere else, I understand different. It's a requirement, even though the the plants.

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Were bought at meadows or wherever and they move them to the side to gain access to the foundation.

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Required mitigation for their flower beds well I'll clarify they will only be required.

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To provide mitigation in accordance with state of maryland regulations for that temporary.

C

Disturbance that occurs during the construction to elevate the house they're not being.

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The mitigation is not required for the removal of any vegetation because they're not proposing.

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To remove any vegetation- and I acknowledge that if there's a flower bed or a shrub close to the.

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Foundation, um you know their the expectation is, it might be, dug up, moved aside and put back.

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um Their the mitigation is not for. Clearing of any vegetation is for temporary disturbance in the.

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Buffer, it is required by komar um stacy can bring up that page of comar. If you'd like to see it so.

C

The important thing um for our department and the briners to do is to work together to minimize the.

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Disturbance because less disturbance equals less mitigation. It is a one-to-one mitigation.

C

For the quantity of temporary disturbance in the expanded buffer, okay, thank you.

G

Any other question uh one thing for the record: the critical area had no comment correct.

G

um They provided a lot more than one to one mitigation other than one right right.

C

They don't object to the variance and they they the world to know that critical areas.

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Did not do a downer on this okay, correct they. I you you I I will characterize it.

C

That they support the variants and they agree to the minimum one-to-one mitigation. Yes, okay,.

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Any other questions- staff, okay, um mr john and julie breiner- will are they going to.

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Make a presentation come up to the table and if I could, if I could swear you in, please stand and.

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Raise your right hand, do you declare and affirm, under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony.

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Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes,.

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Thank you. So my name is john breiner, my wife julie browner's. Also here our address is 23480.

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River hill court lexington park maryland in the subdivision of town creek, and we.

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Moved in there about five months ago, we love it. It's awesome down there and we want to raise our.

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House we want to stay there for a long time, so we're in the flood zone, and it really is a flood.

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Zone, the water comes through there every time it rains. It comes up close to our porch and it does.

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Come into our garage, so we want to get our house out of the flood zone. I don't want to pay special.

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Insurance because even even the payment isn't such the big deal, but they only cover 250 000. So we got.

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A nice house, if it gets flooded, we only get 250 000. I don't want that. I want regular insurance.

H

So if something does happen, my house gets paid for you know, so I want to raise it up and that's all.

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I want to do just raise it up, I'm not trying to make it bigger or more extravagant or crazy. I just.

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Want to go up three or four feet up in the air, just to make sure we're way away from the water.

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And my house doesn't either float away or get mold or we just want to get the water away from us.

H

We've got a company, that's coming in, it's called expert house movers, that's all they do is raise.

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Houses, you know they're very good at it. You know most all the houses they raise are on the water.

H

So they're good at you know, dealing with you know not disturbing stuff, as.

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Little as possible, they um you know they do it all the time. So it's you know, they've got it set up.

H

As far as the mitigation goes, I really don't understand what we're disturbing, but I gave up.

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Fighting harry over it, so I've been doing this and I lost we fight them too, and um but I mean.

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Three quarters of what I'm going to be disturbing is sand. I don't understand how you disturb sand.

H

But you know we're going to do whatever they ask us to do, and the only other part we're disturbing.

H

Is a little bit of grass? There is no flower beds, there are no trees, there are no shrubs.

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There's nothing there that we're disturbing other than a little bit of grass and sand, and it will.

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All be put back better than it was before because right now, it's not very pretty we're going to make.

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It beautiful in lots of grass and we're going to plant shrubs and make it look very nice and have.

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A house that's out of the flood zone, which I think is what county and the state really want us to do.

H

I was under the impression that they want us to do this. You know so we're trying to do it and.

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Help ourselves and to help out the county state and the federal end of it.

H

um I know on the mitigation thing it's on this one. What came up on the screen said 2300 square feet.

H

I've got emails from crystal iot. That told me my mitigation, one to one is 1308 square feet. Yes, I.

H

Don't know what changed there? I don't know where even to plant any trees, because look I'll I'll.

C

Answer your question: what changed there? So mr breiner submitted an original site plan which.

C

Did show a lesser limit of disturbance, but then um he submitted a revised site plan which increased.

C

The limit of disturbance only because you made me you know you told me I had to disturb more land.

H

No, no, I did. I didn't tell you, you had to provide a different site plan, um but we we acknowledge.

C

That um the revised site plan is um a little more professional quality and it does a good job.

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To convey the proposed development to this board, but if he indeed can.

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Do the construction with less temporary disturbance the department will adjust the.

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Mitigation accordingly, we thought it was prudent to share with the board the larger um limit of.

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Disturbance that way he's he may be approved by this board for the larger limit of disturbance.

C

And he'll be covered um in the event that he was going to go over the original, smaller disturbance.

C

But by all means we will work with him to verify the maximum quantity of temporary disturbance and.

C

Only require mitigation for that temporary disturbance that occurs.

H

Problem with it with planting all the trees and bushes is like say, my backyard and my side yard.

H

Are all sand once you get into my front yard, we get out of the 300 foot critical area that.

H

They've told me I'm in the 300 foot critical area instead of the 100, so I really don't know where.

H

To plant trees, I can't plant trees in the sand. Yeah. My front yard is my septic system right. So.

H

It's just like: where do I even plant all these trees that want me to plant that I'm not even.

H

Disturbing anything they even have trees. You know I'm saying I'm disturbing a little bit of grass.

H

And a little bit of sand we'll be happy to um look at your physical features, help you decide what's.

C

The best place to plant in the event that um you cannot plant on-site, um you can pay a fee in lieu.

C

I don't understand that, but that's all this and then you know it's like what a dollar fifty a.

H

Square foot or something so all of a sudden went from thirteen hundred to twenty three hundred. So.

H

Now, I'm at almost three grand now to just because I can't have the ability to plant trees. Well, they.

H

Let me plant trees outside the 300 feet. If, if there is any area that I'd like to plant trees on.

H

Yes, if there is not room in, I said I'm not going to destroy my septic system or.

H

Plant in the sand, where they're just going to die right, I would agree it would not be.

C

Appropriate to plant them in the sand. You then try to plant them in the expanded buffer, but if.

C

There is not room, and I would agree that, based on the um can you bring back up his psych plan.

I

It's a very it's a very unusual shape, property, um the um so you're in the slide presentation.

C

Where the house is in the 300-foot buffer, there's virtually no yard to the left or the right of the.

C

House and um and then when you go beyond the house, then that's the driveway right. You say we're not.

C

Going to plant sales there, too, that goes out yeah and you can plant on top of it a septic, but.

C

But you'll you'll choose what's best for you, but I'm talking about the tanks.

H

The tanks are there in my front yards where the tanks are, the septic fields are further out of the.

H

Three gotcha, so I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the drain lines, but yeah you don't.

C

Want to plant on top of a septic tank because they require maintenance over time, but um so.

C

First, you try to plant in the buffer based on um the site. He probably does not have space to plant.

C

In the buffer, so then you try to plant as close to the buffer as possible. If that's okay, then.

H

I'm I'm gained for that I'll plant 20 trees. If you tell me to plant 20 trees, I'm good with that.

J

20, okay, yeah. Whatever I don't know what the numbers come to: 20 trees.

C

Is um how many feet I don't know what the exact thousand square feet? Is it not mm-hmm I'll do.

H

Some shrubs too, but I mean, but I got plenty of air out there, because I got a bunch of trees that are dead. My wife wants me to replace anyways, um we'll give you advice on um clusters, so you get more.

C

Bang for your buck, if you do clusters- okay, now and you're you're going to landscape afterwards,.

H

Around the house yeah well we're going to replant all the grass I mean, there's not much. I can do.

H

Without anything, any bushes or anything like that anymore, bush is there now, I'm not a big bush fan.

H

But I will put some there just to you know to do the planting thing and then plant some nice in.

H

The trees along the driveway, you know, as close as I can, to the critical zone. Okay, but I mean.

H

That's where my property is well, certainly any any native species he chooses to plant adjacent.

C

To the house for um aesthetic landscaping around the house will count towards the mitigation. Okay.

G

Okay, I have a question it kind of bounces off between two of you. uh You said they're.

G

Flooded so you'll be raising it up, but you, but obviously the flooding is going to be in the.

G

Mitigated area so basically won't that be. Is it salt water? Is it coming from the river or.

G

Is it rain water or what is it from the roads? So I'm just wondering how much that will kill the.

G

Quote-Unquote mitigation: okay, you understand what I'm saying: it's, not soul, which doesn't.

G

Come from, it's not gonna, stop the land for itself from being flooded, you're just raising the house.

G

So right: well, I guess I'm asking of mr knight the question: okay, they're gonna try to mitigate.

G

But if you have some major storms like we had last summer, do they get credit for having tried.

G

Or do they have to redo it again and again and again, there is a survivability ratio, but.

C

That area that is subject to flooding would be another good reason to not plant there and to try.

C

To plant um at other portions of the property that are not subject to flooding, not on top.

C

Of septic tanks, etc, etc. Okay and then I have one other question: getting all the rules of critical.

G

Area and all this, if they were building that house today, building it from scratch, bearing.

G

Land, wouldn't they be required to build it at a raised level to accommodate the floodplain.

C

And it would require a variance and they'd be required to do three to one mitigation in.

C

That case, okay, but I'm just saying that to build the house in today's world, would have to be at a.

G

Higher level, yes- and you know mr breiner um should be applauded for proposing to buy a um pre-fema.

C

um House and construct it to today's um fema standards, which, in st mary's county, um are more.

C

Strict than some jurisdictions, we require a three foot free board above the base. Flood elevation.

G

No more questions, sir. I got a bunch of.

K

Questions is anybody here from expert house movers? No, sir, no okay. I spoke to expert house.

C

Movers on the phone, uh so if you have some questions about how they propose to do it.

C

Most both mr breiner and I have had a thorough um explanation from them. I need to know.

K

How high from where it is now you're actually going to raise it they're going to raise it up.

H

Five feet: just temporarily: they're gonna bring it up five feet and then I need to go at least 30. I.

H

Think it's 30, inches or 32 inches is where I need to be to get a couple inches out of the flip plane.

H

My goal is to probably go up a little bit higher than that. You know I'm probably going to go up.

H

To four feet that way: I'm about 18 inches above the legal limit. That way, I don't have to worry.

H

Ever and then they'll set the house back down to that four foot mark and all we're doing is putting.

H

Block we're going to go off the existing footing. That's there now and we'll just add block to that.

H

And go up that four feet and then they'll come back and drop the house back down onto the block.

C

So the the flood protection elevation that he must build to is eight feet above sea level.

C

um I'm looking to see if we have any tofo on the site plan that might uh answer the question.

H

Came out and did a survey and put marks where we needed to be, and I knew they they. I don't.

H

Have in front of me, but I know they submitted it to the county for me: yeah that and that's.

C

The one with the 2300 yeah and it showed that I think it was like 28 or 30 inches, where I had to.

H

Be at that zoning point, but I want to go a little bit higher just to be safe.

E

On the county gis map, I can turn on the taboo.

C

Yeah, can you do that because I'm not seeing toppo on this site plan.

K

Oh, while they're looking for that, um are you going to remain on the property? Well, not when they raise.

H

It now no, no, we can't, because everything has to get unhooked the plumbing. You know the.

H

Water and the electric all has to be unhooked, because when they go up all.

H

That stuff, you know, would you it's not going to stretch they unhook everything they raised. It.

H

You know I'm going to go see my problem here is I'm a builder myself and I've done.

K

I don't have four or five of these in the county. Okay, so I'm very familiar with what goes on.

K

Okay, um but I was asking I thought: maybe we were going to get a camper or something and.

K

You know your septic system's still there, the lecture's. Still there just be a matter.

K

Of hooking to that, and you could remain on the property. Our neighbor two doors down has got a.

H

Like an in-law suite above his garage and he's told us, we can move in there when we need to.

K

And and that's what you intend to do yes, sir okay yeah, did you find the topo? Yes, would you like me.

E

To share it, or can you see it on the well just tell us: what is the um elevation? The house is, it's.

E

About four four, so the finished floor of the house will be approximately four feet above the current.

C

Finish grade at the house: does that sound right yeah? No, I think the way they told me was a little.

H

Bit less than that, because I know at 32 inches if we raised it four course of block according.

H

To what the little silencers rest came up with, we were going to be good, but we're planning on.

H

Raising at the four foot mark just because I want to be I'd rather, I don't want to do it twice. Let's.

H

Put it that way I want to just get in there. Do it once and know that I'm above you know, by a decent.

H

Bit and not have to worry we're able to sleep good at night yeah and um the existing great shot by.

C

The surveyor is going to be more accurate than the topo on our county map. He came and put some like.

H

Pegs on the tree and stuff and stakes and stuff and did a drawing and stuff for the camera, yeah.

K

Okay, now we've had one of these cases where they actually came in. It was saint george's island.

K

And all they needed, and the only reason they were here is for the variance when the problem I mean.

K

Was variance for a set of steps? How are you going to get up this extra four feet? um Steps.

C

His his I asked the same question his proposal because they have existing porches and the like.

C

Is that those steps will be built within the footprint of the existing house and a sidewalk.

H

That's already existing, so the steps will be built on those existing surfaces. So no, no grass, no extra.

H

Steps we'll be putting on any kind of extra footprint, it'll just be an existing footprint.

H

Now there'll just be more steps there yeah, I wasn't worried about it. I just wanted to do the.

K

Coverage, I didn't have that same question. I didn't want to come back because we had to do the steps.

H

I don't want to run into that before yeah we've had that it is unusual. Most people lift the house.

C

And then build additional steps additional, but he has a different plan and we're going with it. Okay,.

K

Okay, I'm not done yet. um I don't think you had you had to put this offense in. That is voluntary.

K

And I commend you for that. Almost every one of these things that I've been involved in there's.

K

Always water issues we no longer have hundred year, storms, we have those what about once a.

K

Year or twice a year now, the hundred year storms it's water, the rain is terrible climate, whatever.

K

The reason I was asking, if you were going to be nearby.

K

Somebody's got to monitor this stuff when there is a bad storm. I don't know where this company.

K

Is located well, he also has a local home improvement contractor. So while they do the.

C

House, elevating the local home improvement contractor will do the actual foundation work.

C

You know the lane of the block. Am I correct? Yes, sir? My concern, it's not a problem. My concern is.

K

As they raise this, they unhook all your water. I mean all your gutters and everything is run down.

K

In this disturbed dirt area, where the foundation is and and they will have to dig some more.

K

Footage they'll have to love level where they're going to put these the wood to support.

K

The existing house- and they got they- got to do a lot of different stuff than you would think.

K

I don't know if you want to try to extend your downspouts or put put you know, hoses on them or.

K

But you've really got to consider that, because when we have bad storms, it's not pretty gotcha.

H

Our goal was to do this at the very end of august, and hopefully like say in august, it's.

H

Not only to say, drought time, but it seems like it's the dry drier time. That's hurricane season.

C

This beginning of but it is it yeah I mean that's actually when they require.

C

That mound systems be installed for the same reason, but not well. That's when our.

H

Kids, go back to college, so it'll just be me, my wife again, because we don't want to.

H

Disrupt our children too, we missed our opportunity before they went to college, so we're trying to.

H

Get it when they, you know, go back to college in august, so we figured.

H

Third or fourth week august we're going to have it done and we're hoping it doesn't take very long.

K

And the lot's fairly level, because I don't um it's from the front or like where you drive.

H

In it kind of comes down at a slight slope down and then once you hit the house down.

H

To the water, it's just a slight, I don't know topography, but it's pretty flat. Can you see.

C

Yeah yeah, I I would say that his his is the flat lot surrounded by more sloped soaps, based on those.

C

The tokens I see like the gully yeah, exactly it's like it's like he's this.

C

Ridge top and then the it appears to slope away. Okay, I'm I'm good! I just I'm concerned.

K

About the water, I really appreciate your concern and definitely we're going to be paying attention.

H

Because that's our whole issue here is water, so we're I promise we're going to be taking watching.

H

That, okay, we're just going to be literally 150 feet away. Well, that that was my concern. Yeah stacy.

C

Corrects me he's he's the valley and the mountains are here: okay, I'm good, I'm good! That's right! That.

H

Looks like the mansion's above us, it looks like our house is the shed for those mansions.

H

Sitting down on the bottom, okay, thank you. Thank you, man, any questions very good, any more.

A

Good well, thank you, there's nothing else. um I guess now we'll turn it over for.

H

One question: I know they said somebody was a 30-day appeal process. I can answer that. Yeah.

C

That's an administrative process is that the state that we have to wait for to see that they appeal.

H

It or who's well they're, the ones who you would be most concerned about appealing because they.

C

Are the ones who have the deep pockets that could pay for you know, um but it, but technically anyone.

C

Can file an appeal, anyone who would be found to have standing and it's the critical area.

C

Commission, who clearly has standing so um should the board make a decision tonight.

C

The um order comes back to them at their next monthly meeting and then the 30-day appeal.

C

Period starts so 30 days from the day and then another 30 days from that day. Basically correct.

H

Right we'll be in time for the august thing yeah. Luckily, your august plan should work. Thank you.

A

Anything else I'm good. Okay. Thank you very much. um Do we have any callers all right? Thank you.

L

You're good I'm like yeah you're. Getting do you want to stick around for the rest of me? Well, you.

C

Should wait because your hearing is still ongoing? But if you want to have a seat with your wife.

E

Hold on I'm going to put you on speaker.

E

Sherry, do we have any calls for the briner variants.

M

There are no calls at this time. Thank you very much. Thank you, then. We'll close the.

A

Public hearing portion of the meeting and open it up for board discussion.

F

I think it's a wonderful opportunity to do it he's taking an own initiative to do it. It's.

F

Going to cost a lot of money, but I I give him a lot of credit for doing it. Yeah. I think he's good.

K

Anybody else- oh I'm in favor of it.

K

Well then, let's have, I think it's commendable, that in the matter of vaap number 20-2477 having.

F

Made a finding that the standards for granting a variance and the objectives of section 24.4.

F

Of the saint mary's county, comprehensive zoning ordinance have been met. I moved to.

F

Approve the various requests from section 71.8.3 to disturb the critical area buffer.

F

To raise the existing home to meet the current flood protection evaluation standards. Second,.

A

All in favor aye aye aye, aye aye, everybody is in favor and unanimous. Okay, as you hear the board.

A

Has passed and approved your variance an order reflecting the board's decision will be prepared.

A

By staff and signed by the board within 60 days, a 30-day period follows from that date of order.

A

Is the date the order is signed in which any aggrieved party may appeal the board's decision.

A

To circuit court, the recording secretary will mail you a copy of the order once it has been signed.

A

Thank you all very much and good luck with your project.

G

See that was easy. Wasn't it good luck? Thank you very much good thanks.

A

um I think now we will go through the second public hearing, which is the hodgkin's property.

A

Vaap202089 and we're ready for a staff presentation: okay,.

L

I could do this.

E

A little bit smoother that time: okay,.

E

Our second case is the hot skin property. It is vaap 20-20-89 they're asking for.

E

A variance from section 51.4 point to point c of the saint mary's camp county, comprehensive.

E

Zoning ordinance for a proposed addition to a non-conforming structure, which is less than five.

E

Feet from the side, properly line and 10 feet from the principal.

E

10 feet from the principal structure they'd also like a variance from 71.8.3.

E

To disturb the critical area buffer to add a 15 by 24 foot deck to the house, okay,.

E

The legal ad was printed in local newspaper southern maryland news online on march.

E

19Th and the 26th of 2021, the applicant posted the properties and sent notification.

E

Mailings to their neighbors prior to march 24th 2021.

E

The owner of the property is ms cindy hoddskins. The property is located at 45311 clark's landing.

E

Road in hollywood, it is in the rpd or the rural preservation district and with the.

E

Lda or limited development area overlay, the properties there's two properties involved.

E

One has the acreage of 23 958 square feet and the other is 8 041 square feet.

E

The existing house has, or the existing property has an existing house with a garage.

E

And a shed, and also a old, well house that has been turned into a fire pit.

E

um They would like to add a 360 square foot deck to the house and a 730 square foot second floor.

E

Through the existing detached garage, the health department and st mary's county soil conservation.

E

District and the department of land use and growth management have approved the site plan.

E

And the critical area commission commented on october 21st 2020.

E

The property is located at 45311 clark's landing road in hollywood.

E

They are within the rural preservation. Zoning district located by other.

E

Properties in the rpd and a few within the rnc and a commercial marina just down the.

E

Road from them, okay, the critical area we have the lda critical area of 100 foot line right.

E

There, okay and here's what they're proposing this is. The two parcels on the smaller parcel is.

E

The detached garage and the shed the little shed here is actually an old, well house that has been.

E

Converted into um a fire pit, they would also like, okay and on the garage is where they proposing to.

E

Put a second story edition on the existing house. They would like to put the 15 by 24 foot deck.

E

And then this is also shown on this site plan. Is this access down to their water? Now, every.

E

Property is allowed a three foot wide natural path, so this does not require a variance tonight.

E

We are here for the variance for the non-conforming structure for the garage.

E

Edition and then for the deck for a critical area, disturbance.

E

Okay mitigation: there will be 360 square feet of permanent disturbance within the hundred and foot.

E

Critical area, or within the buffer at three to one, the total mitigation would be one thousand.

E

And eighty square feet of mitigation, a mitigation plan will be approved prior to the issuance of.

E

A building permit, okay, the standards for granting the variance I have to go through.

E

Both of them since we're doing the non-conforming structure um that would apply these um standards.

E

Okay, except is provided in sections 24.3, 24.4 and 24.5. The board of appeals shall not vary the.

E

Regulations of this ordinance, unless it makes the findings upon the evidence presented to it, that.

E

Because of the peculiar physical surroundings, such as exceptional narrowness, shallowness size,.

E

Shape or topographical conditions of the property involved, strict enforcement of this ordinance will.

E

Result in practical difficulty, the conditions creating the difficulty are not applicable.

E

General to the other properties, within the same zoning classification and the proposed the.

E

Purpose of the variance is not based exclusively upon reasons of convenience, profits or caprice.

E

It is understood that any development necessary increases the property value, and that alone shall.

E

Not constitute an exclusive finding and number four: the alleged difficulty has not been created.

E

By the property owner or the owner's predecessors entitled and five, the granting of the variants.

E

Will not be detrimental to the public welfare or injurious to other property or improvements.

E

In the neighborhood and the character of the district will not be changed by the variance.

E

The proposed variance will not substantially increase the congestion of the public streets.

E

Or increase the danger of fire or endanger public safety or substantially diminish or.

E

Impair property values within the neighborhood and, lastly, number: seven: the variance complies as.

E

Nearly as possible, with the spirit, intent and purpose of the comprehensive plan.

E

Okay, now the standards for the critical area variance, would it be applied to.

E

The deck variants they're asking for for the disturbance to build the deck.

E

Okay, before the critical error appearance may be granted, the board of appeals must.

E

Find the following that a a special condition or circumstance exist that are peculiar to the.

E

Land or the structure involved and that strict enforcement of the critical area provisions.

E

Of this ordinance would result in unwarranted hardship and b the strict interpretation of.

E

Critical area provisions of this ordinance will deprive the applicants of rights commonly.

E

Enjoyed by other properties in similar areas within the critical area of saint mary's, county.

E

And see the granting of the variants will not confer upon the applicant any special privilege.

E

That would be denied by the critical area provisions of this ordinance and to other.

E

Lands or structures within the critical area of saint mary's, county and d, the variance request.

E

Is not based upon conditions or circumstances. There are results of the actions by the applicant.

E

And e, the granting of variants will not adversely affect water quality or adversely impact.

E

Wildlife or plant habitat within the critical area and that the granting of the variants will.

E

Be in harmony with the general spirit and intent of the critical area program.

E

And f, the variance is the minimum necessary to achieve reasonable use of land or structures.

E

Are there any questions? No ma'am? No, you answered my critical area questions. Wonderful, I'm glad! I.

G

Covered it always just want to make sure that it's always documented that they had no real comment.

G

Yep perfect, the the critical area did have comment on this. Yes, but it's.

G

Not not in a total negative, where they're absolutely no, not that I've read.

G

Or I've read the wrong one well, I would point out that there's a slight discrepancy between.

C

How my critical area staff reviewed the proposed access path and how the um how the critical area.

C

Commission perceived it um so for the sake of the applicant and um the you know, based on the.

C

Submission of a site plan showing a variety of disturbances in the critical area buffer.

C

That the access path, which is actually uh intended to be gravel, so it does constitute lot coverage.

C

Be considered as part of the variance request tonight.

G

Now, what I mean is when you usually, we have seen the ones where critical area says.

G

No, no, not only no but hell, no okay, they're just they're, not stating it that way. Right.

C

Those letters are usually three or four pages long and they cover each standard that has to be met.

C

And they give a paragraph even larger of why they don't think it met that standard. But they do say.

C

That you have to meet the standard. If I paraphrase their letter, do they not already have reasonable.

C

Use of the land they have a house, they have sheds, they have a garage, and now they want a deck too.

G

Okay, anyway, anything else. Okay, the applicant- I guess we'll- have cindy hodgkin's.

A

And okay you'll be making the presentation.

A

If you will please stand and raise your right hand, do you declare and affirm under.

A

The penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you. You may proceed.

K

That's long give us a moment. Stacy's opening up here.

E

Yeah, let me share it too also, and then you just let her know when you want to advance.

M

That just like at work next slide. Please that's right! So thank you all for um uh hearing could I.

G

Have you speak into this because make it easier to hear you so I'm sorry did I miss the swearing-in.

C

Yes, oh I missed it. Sorry we did okay. So I bought this uh property three years.

M

Ago my name is cindy hoddskins um when the house, uh when I purchased the house it had.

M

Been a rental for um well over a decade and was in a fair amount of disrepair.

M

Particularly on the outside, the landscape has fallen into great repair or disrepair.

M

Excuse me, knowing that, eventually I was going to ask for this variance to have a deck. I have.

M

With I've held off on doing any landscape, because um I want to make sure.

M

That the area is brought back and there's lots of plantings and so forth that are put around.

M

The property so with the um powerpoint this evening, um if you would forward it the next one.

M

There we go, this is the house, as it looks right now: um we've I've completely redone the exterior.

M

It used to be a little red, brick house that was built by uh one of the the families in.

M

The county, the deans, it was a red brick house, but unfortunately the previous owner decided to.

M

Cover it with stucco to kind of make it look like a german cottage, with the facade and and stones.

M

And so forth, hanging off of it, I've tried to bring it back to a little bit more of a cottage look to.

M

It because the house is not overly large but as as we continue to improve the outside the next slide.

M

The rear of the property was also in disrepair. You can actually see.

M

That little structure there that the original survey had as a shed, that was the original pump.

M

House that is no longer a pump house, because the water system has been internalized, so the pressure.

M

System is now inside the house, it's not outside anymore, and we currently use it just as a a fire.

M

Pit there is no floor in it, it's a dirt floor, but the existing um walls are what are still holding.

M

On to the the fire pit so to speak, but that will be um uh it's it's falling apart. So it's.

M

Only a matter of time till that is gone, the um uh original walkway on the sheet that stacy showed.

M

Is actually right there, where that arrow is that walkway was what went down to the original, pier.

M

The pier was um that permit was done a couple years ago and has since been closed out. What.

M

You see now is the um is the new pier on the property that I had put in a couple years ago.

M

This is the right side of the property taken from the the driveway. There is.

M

Several feet that that buffer there um will not be disturbed by the deck. In fact, you won't even.

M

See the deck from this uh vantage point, um the planting plan, could you use a pointer or something.

G

Because I notice you're using your hand, but we don't know what you're pointing to is there a way.

G

We could use a point, I can be quiet, but you know I sit on my hands all happy. I don't see a curse.

A

About the pointer, what do you see it now on your screen? Well, stacy would have to try to follow.

M

Along that's what I mean mean: there's, there's additional pictures of of the property so.

M

But on this side it's that natural buffer, that is there- will be increased with the the planting plan.

M

That I have submitted to the county to make up for the disturbance with the ratio of one to three.

M

And this is the existing uh garage structure.

M

The the roof is the um original roof that was built back in 1968 or excuse me, 66.

M

And the roof is in disrepair and so as a part of the maintenance and and so forth.

M

This is the structure that we would like to put a second floor on and put a new roof on.

M

This is the current plot that shows the critical area line that goes through the house.

M

And um I've put a circle where the proposed deck is going to go.

M

And then that is an actual picture of the back of the house as it is today.

M

In the deck building plan um requesting a 24 by 15 foot uh structure,.

M

um That will be built within saint mary's county current building codes.

M

This is the the current garage and the proposed floor plan.

M

And this is a proposed front elevation, which is concur current with or excuse me.

M

Consistent with other structures in the neighborhood architecturally.

M

And a few, the disturbance uh in the garage improvement will be minimal in that it is the.

M

um Exact same footprint, we're just going.

M

Up and to support the exterior elevation, I took pictures of neighboring garages.

M

They're just down the street from my property.

N

Is that a mound system there? I'm sorry is that a mound system, no ma'am, no okay. No! It's actually.

M

A pit system- that's in the front of the house as far as the the drain field goes so on the.

M

Water side, no, no ma'am! It's in it's in the front. It's actually inside the circular driveway, okay,.

I

Thanks, have you gotten approval from the health department for the edition yet.

E

I don't believe it went through the health department because it er.

A

No, it would have happened, yes, no, it didn't and we have approval.

A

So there's no plumbing in the edition over the garage. No sir! Oh strictly, then it wouldn't.

C

Yeah well technically, that didn't need health department approval, because it's not changing.

C

The footprint and there's no plumbing in the garage, I thought you were talking about the.

C

Deck the deck had health department approval, the deck um meets the minimum setback from the well.

G

Can I reaffirm that question from the applicant rather than from staff, there is no sewer coming.

G

Anywhere in that garage, no, there is not. In other words, the second story cannot be converted.

G

To a living area, it's what basically is what you're saying without the silver right she she'd.

C

Come back with a different permit application um yeah, I know, but I'm in this thing it's it's no.

G

Incremental bootlegging some way into it. I just want to make sure that it's when she says it's.

G

Storage, it is storage unless you do a lot of additional work and get permission to do so.

G

Is what I hear right? Well, the health department policies on.

C

Additions to detached accessory structures, um I can tell you what the current policy is. So if the.

C

If the current building has no plumbing in it and proposes no plumbing, they would not object.

C

To the second floor, being used as a family room or rec room or play room, um so I mean it could be.

C

um Occupied and lived in um with no plumbing- and I mean you know, lived in like a living room.

C

In theory, we spend time in a living room watch tv.

C

And throw a super bowl party on the second floor of the garage and the bedpans come with it.

C

They used, they used to consider second floor garages as potential living space.

C

Whether it had plumbing or not, but their current policy is, um is more.

C

Friendly to the property owner, okay, uh do we have to say anything about.

K

What is it quarter, inch spacing or whatever for the deck boards.

K

Or is that decks by definition now are not lot coverage decks are permanent disturbance in the.

C

Buffer so she's seeking a variance for permanent disturbance in the buffer to construct a deck.

C

Because that which is currently lawn will be permanently disturbed by this structure over.

C

Top of it, the presumption is, it will have gaps between the boards, like normal deck construction.

C

The um the other permanent disturbance to the buffer is her pathway, because.

C

That's currently launched she is offering to remove one pathway and replace it with another.

C

So that could almost be approved without a variance through impervious surface trading.

C

But we're already here for a permanent disturbance, variance so might as well include it.

C

I do notice that you're not showing any steps on your deck yeah. That's the question I had. I well.

M

Because of the process, I don't have, you know outside of the dimensions I haven't gotten.

M

You know the next step of of figuring out exactly you know what the what the steps are.

M

Are going to be, but um you know the deck itself will fit in that notch of the house. So I didn't.

M

I haven't had you know this, the structures and everything laid out yet so you know the steps.

M

Would be right there I mean haven't gotten that far yet so currently, there's no steps proposed.

C

And therefore, they wouldn't be approved with this variance. um How high up is the deck going to be.

M

um If you go back to one of the pictures um like the um showing this.

M

It shows the back of the house with the existing steps coming down. So so that's I I so that is.

M

Those those steps are there for egress purposes, um but the uh the the deck would not be as high.

M

As those steps are, it would be one step down so and come into that rectangular area.

C

So if the proposed steps in the future were within the footprint of the existing deck, as proposed.

C

Then they would be covered by the variants. Okay, but if you wanted steps in addition to the deck.

C

As proposed, that has not been included in your request, yet, in other words, what you're saying in.

K

Order for her to have steps on what she's the pros proposed she'd have to build them inside the deck.

C

Within that um 14, I'm sorry 15 by 24 foot, rectangle, okay,.

K

Otherwise, we'd have to change everything right.

K

She could submit an exhibit here during the hearing for consideration by the board.

G

Okay, when we go back to a critical area, if we, if it's an additional footprint since they're.

G

The ones that are kind of raising the issue not prior to conclusion of the hearing, um the.

C

In the event that the board approves um her variance, we, um you know we are obligated to.

C

Send a copy of the approved variants to the critical area commission which, which would, if.

G

We approve would be the additional square footage they would see it at that time. Okay, there's.

F

Already steps there, so if you take those steps away from the square footage that she's asking for.

F

There's no addition. Technically um that would be impervious surface um relocation, because the steps.

C

Count as existing lot coverage in the buffer, and so she would not be increasing the lot coverage.

C

In the buffer, she would simply be relocating it in the buffer and that's what I was trying.

F

To say, thank you there we go. I just wanted to address this now. Oh, I like the way you I would.

M

Of this board, um if it requires you know an action on my part, I'm more than willing to.

M

To to do whatever um you know, I've never gone through one of these hearings.

M

Before and I have certainly relied upon um the uh the guidance here so if there's.

M

Something that needs to be done this evening. I don't know if it would be.

M

um What would be most efficient at this point in time to request you know? Well, it sounds like.

K

We've taken care of the steps that you relocate the steps right yeah. Well, I think it would be.

C

Appropriate to identify the location, they're being relocated to yeah. How high is the deck going to be.

C

We estimated there were six risers at approximately eight inches each. So that's.

C

48 inches, but she also said the deck was going to be down one riser, so maybe only 40 inches.

C

Down when you walk out the door that is at the highest point yeah so um so then, when you come.

C

Out it um the ground drops off, so it may need those risers. So the current steps has already got.

F

Six, so there's really no difference, then right right, except that if you put the deck over off.

G

If you stepped off to the side, it would be a lot more steps: risers, okay and the fact that that then.

N

You've put a lot of thought into this. Obviously, you've done a lot of work and the fact that you.

N

Also mentioned that those steps are for egress correct, so for a safety from a safety standpoint.

N

I think I think you need to now decide where you're still unfortunate now, where your steps are.

N

Going to be so that we can approve it all at one time rather than having you come back well does.

A

It doesn't matter where, along the perimeter of the deck, that the steps are, I mean jesus.

A

Relocate them where they're relocating doesn't matter true, um but they have to reach the ground.

G

If it's on that one edge well, we can give her time to think about that. While we move on okay.

C

If you know in theory, she could present an exhibit labeled approximate location of steps.

C

Approximate relocation of steps to be more exact. Yes, sir! Yes, thank you good good word. I.

C

Love I like to, like those words, we're trying to help you. The planting plan currently um has my.

M

Installing beds um flower beds around the.

M

Around the um right there, the 24.1 my section there, as well as up and around the other area you.

M

Know of the house, so the relocation of the steps would be on the 24 foot uh line of the of the deck.

M

So it would be on the stairs would be on that side. Okay, yeah, that's good! Approximately! On that side,.

N

Approximately approximate relocation of stuff.

N

Okay, okay, so harry does um does lugham want a revised exhibit. Maybe uh even if it's just.

B

Hand-Drawn, okay! Well, right, I thought yeah. I think I think if we so, she has placed uh no.

C

Do you want to place a mark on the page where you think, where you're and I'm perfect yep.

A

Somebody want to take a credit and then I'll have. That is what exhibit number that is.

A

Well, sherry young will um assign an exhibit number and add um attach it to the case. Okay,.

C

Okay, just for clarity, I think we all understand, based on your um having stacy.

K

K

Okay, yep gotcha.

N

Oh, so it's almost in the center.

G

That way, it can be plus or minus left or right. Yes, there you go.

A

Any other discussion from the board is there a motion uh just no? No, no, no. No we've got a public.

A

Chair, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Are there any public? Anybody on the phone yep speaker.

E

Ms young, do we have any public um callers? There are no public callers at this time. Okay, thank you.

K

Okay, discuss discussion. He's got to close close the closed public, I'm going to close.

K

The public comment portion one comment: uh miss hodgkin's, miss hudson's. Yes, I I really like.

F

Your house, it looks exactly like mine. The first pictures I thought was my house. You had in there.

M

Thank you. It's uh um it's uh and we've often told him. He needs to put a second story on his tomb.

A

Any other comments- those are questions concerns um I'm still like crazy about her set of steps.

K

I mean to me, it would look, I don't know which, which page this is.

E

Can you see it on your screens.

K

Yeah, it can enlarge the deck area. If you can the deck area. Okay,.

E

I can try it's a little bit difficult in the power point yeah. Can you go to full image.

K

That's good looks like you would want to run it along the edge because the deck comes out past.

K

The house looks like you'd want to put it there, where you know where to be up against the house.

K

But I'm just saying if she was explaining that's where her proposed landscaping is.

C

I know I'm just saying: okay, but you good where yet, yes, sir okay, well then we're is it our assuming.

G

We approve and what we condition it with it'll be loose enough that she could possibly bury it.

G

With concurrence of luggage, right, yes, mr knight, do we have to do anything for that? uh Walkway.

C

um It's been included in the um testimony thus far. I recommend it be included in the motion.

I

G

Way loves to do these extended ones, approval of a gravel walkway.

N

That just love a gravel walkway towards the that's all you'd have to say. Yes, okay, um I would I don't.

K

Have a problem with it at the neighborhood showed up and complained about only being five foot. You.

K

Know from the from their property line I may have, but nobody's here complaining. So that's.

K

Not on me to complain about it, the um I'm sorry, sir, are you referring to the the gravel walkway.

K

No I'm referring now to the the garage only being five foot off your boundary line and.

K

And could possibly interfere for neighbor, but if they're not here to complain about it, I'm I'm fine.

G

It is what the distance to the next building and it on that adjacent lot, in other words,.

G

You have the garage essentially on the line the next building over is even though it's on their.

G

Property is what 10 or 15 feet, or more it's more than that, sir okay. Well I mean from a fire access.

G

You can get through there so isn't that a lot of what some of these experiences are so.

M

So I'm not exactly sure why this certainly happened before I was a.

M

Resident of saint mary's county, the two lots are are together as as one.

M

So those two parcels are considered: 45 311 clarks landing road. My neighbors.

M

You'll see that um you know they have a garden shed. That is their structure there along the.

M

Property line, that is, it runs adjacent to the external garage that is on my property.

M

The distance between their shed and their physical house is.

M

Roughly 15 feet between their shed and their house, so the distance between their house and the.

M

Property line is um 25 feet approximately right, but that's not what we're here for no. I understand.

N

So I think we need to stick to what we're here for today, well and well, with all due respect, it.

C

Is the expansion of the non-conforming structure her her existing garage has a non-conforming side.

C

Yard setback it has a non-conforming setback to her existing house. The director can only approve.

C

A maximum 25 percent expansion, this board can only approve a maximum 50 expansion, yet she's.

C

Asking for a 100 expansion. So how do we do that so in essence, she's requesting a variance from the 50.

C

Cap, which is a bulk area issue, and this board can grant bulk area variances and or.

C

You're granting her a variance from the non-conforming side yard setback of a minimum of.

C

Five feet which she does not have, and a variance from the minimum 10 foot setback from her existing.

C

House which she does not have thus rendering it a conforming structure by way of variance.

N

And she's main but she's maintaining the footprint she is maintaining the footprint.

C

Yes, yes, yes, it's not an issue. I mean you're comfortable with it. Yes, I am.

G

Yes, yes, and we haven't even gotten the discussion yet.

M

But all over that way, all of our previous focus was on critical area and now we're.

C

Talking about the zoning setback, issues that are part of the same case.

A

Any other discussion with this discussion now, I feel very comfortable with this. I'm happy.

G

With it the same footprint put it up, you got it go get it. I don't know. If I can do this or not.

N

Emotionally, do it I'll make a motion in the matter of vaap number 20-20-89 having made and finding.

N

That the standards for granting a variance and the objectives of section 24.3 and sections 24.4.

N

Of the saint mayor's county, comprehensive zoning ordinance have been met with.

O

You had, I moved to approve the variance request from section 52.3.3 point e for.

N

The proposed expansion or enlargement exceeding 25 of the existing structure.

N

And section 71.8.3 to disturb the critical area buffer to add a 15 by 24-foot deck.

G

Wait a minute to include or relocated stairs with the rope with the relocated steps with.

N

Access to the proposed deck, okay and um approval of the gravel pathway, access to the existing pier.

K

Okay, a second period; second, all right call for the vote. Mr richardson hi hi hi hi. Okay, as you can see,.

A

The board has approved your request and an order reflecting the board's decision will be prepared.

A

By staff and signed by the board within 60 days, 30-day period follows from that date. The order.

A

Is signed during which any aggrieved party may appeal the board's decision to the circuit court.

A

And so good luck with your project and hope you do well. Thank you very send us pictures.

A

um One break ah you guys want to break yeah. We can take part okay, ten minute break, we'll get back.

A

Eight no 7 57.

A

I'd like to call the meeting back to order, and now we will.

A

Hear case number three, which is the sloan gravel wash plant cuap 21 131: zero, zero, zero, zero one.

A

And we'll have staff give the presentation on the case. Okay, give me just a minute to share my screen.

E

Okay, your screen and presentation, not wonderful,.

E

Chris, can you see that.

E

Yes, I can. Thank you, okay, wonderful! Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing of april 8.

E

2021., this is a hearing for the sloan wash plan conditional use application, 21-131-001.

E

They are asking for a modification to an approved conditional use.

E

Pursuant to chapter 25 of the comprehensive zoning ordinance for use type 82 extractive industry.

E

The legal ad and property, the legal ad was printed in the local newspaper southern maryland, news on.

E

March 19th and 26th 2021, the applicant also posted the property and sent notification to.

E

Neighbors within 200 feet prior to march 24th 2021, uh the property owner is multiflora llc.

E

And the agent is christopher longmore with dugan mckissick and lawnmower.

E

The surveyor is barry buchner with chesapeake trails, surveying llc and the property is located.

E

At 28625 able's way in loveville maryland, it has 62.985 acres and it currently has a approved use.

E

Type of 82 extractive industry we're here to make a modification to that conditional use.

E

And here's the property location map at 28625 abel's way in loveville the land-use.

E

Map is rural preservation. It's all surrounded by rural preservation,.

E

And the zoning map is also rural preservation, district.

E

The existing improvements it has an existing surface, gravel mine, which.

E

Received the conditional use approval in december of 2016., there is already.

E

An existing hall road that provides access to maryland route 5., they are proposing to.

E

Add a wash plant facility where sand and gravel is washed during the processing.

E

Okay, this is their previous approved site plan.

E

Which it states that, um let's see.

E

Storm watermelon: okay, a pro note right here. It says a processing plant is not proposed at.

E

This site, and since it was on the original site plan, we wanted to make sure we came back for the.

E

Conditional use to have it modified. Okay here are the condition existing conditions of 2017.

E

E

And then here are some wash plants, examples provided by their equipment manager.

E

What an um wash plant would look like in the gravel pit setting.

E

Okay, here's the site plan: their access is right through here.

E

And then the wash plant detail.

E

Okay agency reviews, um it went through the january 20 21st tec cycle for a minor site plan review.

E

Land use, dpw met, common soil conservation have approved maryland, state highway has no common.

E

A mandatory mining permit and license is required and issued by maryland, department environment for.

E

A surface mine operation, a water appropriation permit, was issued back in january of 2021.

E

Okay standards for conditional use approval, no conditional use shall be approved by the.

E

Board unless it finds that the conditional use complies with the standards of the district.

E

In which it is to be located and the standards applicable to that use.

E

And to the establishment, maintenance and operation of the conditional use will not be detrimental to.

E

Or endanger the public, health safety, convenience, morals order or general welfare and three, the.

E

Conditional use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate.

E

Vicinity for the purpose already permitted and it will not substantially diminish or impair.

E

Property values within the neighborhood and number four, the property or the proposed use.

E

At the proposed location will not have adverse effects above and beyond those inherently.

E

Associated with the proposed use, irrespective of its location within the zoning district.

E

And five, adequate utilities, access road, drainage and or necessary facilities have been.

E

Or are being provided and six adequate measures have been or will be taken to provide ingress and.

E

Egress, following a design that maximizes traffic congestion or minimizes not maximizes. Thank you.

E

Okay, it minimizes traffic congestion in the public streets and seven. The proposed.

E

Conditional use is not contrary to the goals, objectives and policies of the comprehensive plan.

E

And the conditional eight number eight, the conditional uses in all other respects, conforms.

E

To the applicable regulations of the district in which it is located or the special requirements.

E

Established for the specific conditional use in the ordinance any questions, no ma'am.

G

uh Well, I guess I'll wait after mr longmore's presentation: okay, okay, no other questions of staff.

A

Mr longmore, okay, I'm gonna stop sharing. Thank you. Thank you, mr chairman. um Are you gonna have.

A

Anybody else at this time actually will you be having anybody else testifying? Yes, mr chairman,.

A

um If, if uh is it, mr buckmark, if he will stand and raise his right hand, I'll swear him in.

A

Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements, you may give be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

J

I do yes, sir. Thank you. You may proceed.

D

Thank you, mr chairman, um for tonight's presentation. Mr buckmart is actually.

D

Going to take the lead in uh presenting the powerpoint that was provided to the.

D

Staff go over the site plan um and other aspects of the of the proposal and then.

D

You know I'll certainly be available to answer any questions or may chime in as needed, but I'll turn.

D

It over to mr buckner now all right, I'm going to share my screen for a powerpoint that we've.

P

P

Okay, we have an approved use number 82 that was approved in 2016.. We have received a approved.

P

Water appropriations permit from mde in january of this year, sm2018g06.

P

Tonight we're uh coming to request uh the the revision or the addition of the wash.

P

Plant on the uh on the site, uh this is the uh the current site, the same same.

P

Photo that stacy had it shows the uh it shows the entrance. uh The existing entrance.

P

Shows the existing entrance opening shows the existing uh staged equipment.

P

It gives you an idea of the conditions of the site today.

P

This is the site distance, north and south around along uh maryland. Five at the existing entrance.

P

And this is uh across the road looking into the existing entrance.

P

To the site, and then I've got some pictures of the staged equipment on site currently.

P

Then this shows the generator and the diesel supply tank.

P

uh This is the the uh state plan or the site plan. That's on its way for approval tonight.

P

uh This is the equipment, that's on site, the the uh the detailed uh technical specs.

P

And then there's some additional photographs of uh what the what a wash plant looks like and what it does and that's it.

P

So if you have any questions, I'm here, uh randy sloan is with me.

P

A

Does the board have any questions of the applicant? No sir, oh yeah, um I do but.

K

Yeah go ahead. Perhaps I do too um I I guess I need to ask these and mr sloane, I'm not sure.

K

um I was wondering if the driveway is going to remain gravel.

C

And I'll remind the board, mr sloane did not get sworn in yeah.

A

Is he going to answer the question? Are you going to answer it barry.

P

uh That that should probably be answered by mr sloan. I'm not sure that answer.

P

Why don't I go ahead and swear right now? If he will please stand and raise his right hand.

A

Thank you. Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do okay. Thank you.

A

We go back to the question, is the is the driveway to be maintained, gravel or or something else.

Q

Upon approval, we were considering putting paving it. Okay, all right. That's all thieving.

K

um Are you going to have to install a weigh station and a station building.

Q

uh Weigh scales, yes, wait for the truck press eventually and some type of building.

K

Like you have now.

Q

Yes, some kind of an office right either a small modular, trailer or.

Q

Similar to what's there at the existing plant and and um and are you gonna.

K

Essentially close the other plant, if this is approved.

Q

That would be the goal it may be some year, but that is the plan. Yes,.

K

And do you do you have um you're going to oh, their is going to remain the same as.

K

What's at the existing plant now, okay, that's all! I got pretty much the same.

N

Yeah, how many gallons of water will you use it per day.

Q

It's several hundred thousand a day, but it's like 96 percent of it is recycled.

Q

It was lost through evaporation, okay,.

N

So we do, you dig a well.

Q

Where do you get the water from no, there is.

Q

There's a farm pond on site is the pond. That's like that. What he said. The groundwater.

C

Appropriation permit so that describes it as come as groundwater. That is filling the pond.

C

So I guess it's anything a shallow um aquifer that is actually filling the pond. I'm just.

N

Wondering the impact it would have on the aquifer that that supplies loveville, you know, is it.

C

This would not be a so they're, not drilling a well. As I understand it, he's not drilling the.

C

Wheel there there it is a shallow aquifer that is filling the pond, which would be.

C

Separated from drinking well aquifers, okay, thank you and the health department.

C

Had this site plan on hold pending issuance of the ground water appropriation permit and.

C

When that was entered into their record, that's when the health department approved this.

C

Site plan- thank you john. I just wanted to reaffirm here. So what we're saying is if we.

G

Approve this tonight, we would it's okay to have the same four conditions that were on the other.

G

Authorization, in other words back in december 2019 or rather five years ago, four years ago,.

G

You know the burning on site is limited to a given area hours of operation monday through friday and.

G

And only maintenance on saturday noon to seven to noon, compliance with state highway. There are four.

G

And then the fifth one is documentation, the activity will not interfere with transmission.

G

Lines of southern maryland, electric co-op- there are four conditions on the original.

G

This is coming in, as I see as an amendment but from what you sound like here.

G

You're going to have one phase out, and this come in.

G

Are these four conditions going to be put in, or are you fine with those four conditions.

D

Barry, do you do you want to address that, or would you like me to uh why don't you get that.

P

One so so I don't I I I don't think randy has any problem operating under those four.

P

Conditions actually, the fourth one um from what I had seen. There was a misunderstanding with smeko.

P

On the first site plan that was submitted, the transmission line is actually not on this property.

P

um So they hadn't gotten their their approval from smeko. At the time the board approved it.

P

That's why condition four was put in there. I believe you're correct. I was on the board then too.

K

So, let's just leave it with the three put three then we did with the tree would be okay,.

D

I I think, that's and certainly you know randy, you can speak up if um barry or I are misspeaking, but.

D

You know so I think that, in the compliance with the entrance permit has.

D

Sort of been done, but those don't really interfere with the operation at all. The request today was.

D

Not to really change those, but simply to add the watch plan to the existing conditional use. I think.

D

It'd be fine to either leave them all or remove the fourth one, because the way I view the fourth.

D

One it's already been complied with, uh because there was documentation, provided that it will.

D

Not interfere with any smeko line so whether that stays on or not. I think that it's sort.

D

Of moot now because it's already been resolved since 2016., we're certainly great conditions.

R

Thanks randy, mr richardson, any questions. No sure um I've got a couple of questions.

A

Are there going to be additional trucks coming in to use the plant.

A

It would be bringing in gravel to bankrupt gravel to be washed at this location.

A

Or is this just going to handle materials mined at the site.

Q

Some will be brought in eventually. What was that okay barry? Could you have a move.

E

Mr sloane move closer to the speaker or to the mic. Oh sure,.

K

I heard him: huh okay yeah, I said there will be additional trucks coming in.

K

Yeah eventually, eventually.

A

Okay. Thank you any other questions. No sir. Look how many additional trucks do you anticipate.

N

Per day, maybe 40 to 50 per day you're, not talking about additional trucks.

K

Bringing gravel in at this time are you no, no, not not possible, not until you use up. What's there.

K

I'm sorry not until you use up what's there.

N

Can you explain to me a typical day, it'll be a while.

N

What does he say? Could you please repeat that.

Q

It will we will not be bringing material in.

Q

The future it'll be a while, yet before we get that far get ready for that.

N

In the future, before we get that far miss della hey, we didn't hear your question.

D

Yeah, mrs l, hey we didn't hear your question it didn't come across. I was just trying.

D

Zoom, I don't know okay, I was just trying to determine how many.

N

Trucks, additional trucks would be brought in what the impact would be on route 5. and my.

N

Understanding is from mr sloan is that it won't be anytime in the near future. Is that correct.

Q

It would be probably outside of a year before we would.

Q

It depends on some conditions how things work: the demand for material.

N

So in a year we can expect more traffic and how many trucks per day do you anticipate to bring in.

Q

Like I said, 40 50 loads per day, okay, thank you.

A

Traffic, uh any other questions. No, I guess we'll go to the public hearing.

A

Portion is there anybody who wants to speak for or against the proposed mine.

A

Okay, sir, come up sit down and I'll swear you in.

A

Before you sit down, if you would raise your right hand, do you declare and affirm under.

A

The penalty of perjury that the testimony response and statement you may give will be the whole truth.

A

And nothing but the truth. Yes, I do. Okay and for the record, would you state your name joseph lacy,.

J

28640 loveville maryland. Okay, thank you, mr lacey. I have a few questions and regarding.

J

What was already brought up was the amount of water that was going to be used. uh They said.

J

It was the uh shallow aquifer or surface water. I have a well. I am uh directly across the road.

J

My well is 30 or 40 foot deep. I've lived at this residence for 40 some years he's going to be using.

J

Approximately 259, 000 gallons a day and 440 000 uh gallons per day during the month at maximum use.

J

I don't know if my well can stand that, I'm not against him doing it.

J

Or having his uh operation, but I can't I'm retired now I can't handle another ten thousand dollar or.

J

Twelve thousand dollar uh well to put in a deep, well four, five hundred foot well.

J

And I would just like to have it brought up that that was.

J

Be on record that my well hadn't gone dry in 40-some years and at this rate of usage.

J

Is a lot even though it's being recycled, it's still a lot of water being used and I'm directly.

J

Across the road and the impact fee that they said was a quarter of a mile from the area.

J

Over a mile from where, where was the starting point of the.

J

Where they measured the quarter of a mile, because I'm directly across the road.

J

The james abell that owned the property uh previously and I know there was a pond back there.

J

But where did they start? The measurement for the quarter of a mile where they said old wells were.

J

Within four or five hundred foot deep- and these are the questions- this is the question that I have.

F

uh Mr rich richardson, uh you see a lot of the water is recycled, is it? Is it recycled.

F

Twice four times a day, uh I guess I don't. I don't know, and I was wondering I don't either.

J

I don't know, but their paper says: 259, 000, gallons and 440, 000 gallons and even at a 6 percent loss.

J

um That's still a lot of work.

P

So if I made the the state geologist had this plan under review for almost two and a half years.

P

As part of the groundwater appropriations permit, mr sloan is on record with mde.

P

Stating that if any wells go dry, that is a result of his his uh extraction and use of.

P

The surface waters that he would pay to uh drill a new well for for uh that, for that person, okay, I.

J

I'm satisfied with that as long as it's on record now, what's going to constitute.

J

I guess the well going dry, I mean, I know the well is going to go dry, but are there going to be any.

J

Caveats in there that say well, your well went dry because of something else.

Q

Mr lacey, I would assure you that we replaced your well if it needs to be done. Excuses we'll make.

Q

Sure it gets done, take care, he said I'll, make sure that it gets and barry am I correct and you yeah.

D

Barry am, I sure, am I correct that in your process of going through getting the appropriations permit.

D

The water appropriations permit that you know the hope and belief is that it will not happen, but in.

D

The based on the studies that were done, but if, if a well does go dry, that's when randy is agreeing.

D

To replace it, you know if it happens after this is approved, is that am I correct in that? Yes, sir, okay.

D

uh So, mr lacey, we certainly hope and the state does not think that will happen to.

D

You, but if it does happen, mr sloan is agreeing to replace your well. You know if the studies.

D

That they did were incorrect and it happens. Okay, that's I just wanted to get it on record. That.

G

How my question of uh mr sloan is what is the circumference of the num, in other words, reaching.

G

Out from this point, how many wells are we talking about that? You would be assisting the landowner in.

G

Terms of if it went dry, I mean you've got the one person across the street. I personally only because.

G

I deal with a furniture person who lives back in that area. I know his well is only about 30 or 32.

G

Feet deep, uh and so therefore, I'm just wondering how what is the area that would be could be.

G

Impacted that you're, in effect, rather than just reaching out to one person, to get this through the.

G

Board, what is the regional area that you would be assuming responsibility for.

G

Do we know how many wells are within whether it's a quarter of a mile, a mile or a mile and a half.

G

Of where this will be, that are shallow wells. If I could make a comment, I want the answer.

D

Can you share some more of what what I I think you responded to that a little bit before in.

D

Discussing the water appropriation permit, what was done? Do you do you think you can address that.

P

Well, well, the the state geologist looks at that and I'm not sure how he determines the quarter.

P

Of a mile uh from the extraction point um the there, this pond actually catches surface water.

P

As well, it's fed it it's fed from a spring and surface water. uh Embankment was recently.

P

Repaired and replaced so so the uh I I would have to fall back on the.

P

The state geogeologist, who is a much more uh uh um expert than I.

P

For sure, the only reason I ask is that there's a lot of mennonites in that area and they have.

G

Personally, dug the wells themselves, so I know they're not more than about 30 to 35 feet deep.

G

That's why I'm just asking this question, if I may back in where we're at now, we've been mining there.

Q

For 20 some years and I've had that agreement with the neighbors around there and I've yet to.

Q

Drill a well so we've had faced this before and we were willing to do it then we'll do it now.

G

But if we approve this, I just back to counselor if we were to approve this I'd certainly want.

G

To document it in the order that of some sort of liability within a given region.

B

uh For sure mr brown right, you can certainly make that a condition of your approval. Yes, yes,.

B

And that's why I'm asking what? What is the real circumference that we're dealing with here, yeah.

B

Back to your question: what is a reasonable um area or radius? It sounds like the state geologist if I.

B

Understand the testimony correctly is saying that that's about a quarter of a mile from the facility.

B

But but do we know what he, what his study was based on? That's what really.

G

I'm going to defer to the as opposed to somebody who pencil whips a study.

G

And never did that person come on site, I'm going to defer to the applicant on that. Let's.

B

See what they have to say, yeah did the person who did the study come down and study the area.

P

I can't answer that. I don't know, sir, we, you know, you know we, we.

P

Made the application about 26 months ago and um went through their process.

P

So exactly what their their process is and entails. um It was quite arduous and lengthy.

P

um Other than that, I don't, I don't know exactly what they do.

D

This is dan mcknow, you know, and respectfully you know mr sloan, mr sloan is, is agreeing to.

D

Address the issue- um and I know mr murphy is in the room- this is an issue that we've gone.

D

Back and forth with mr scott, they have a thought on this as well, but there are state regulations.

D

That govern mining operations like this, uh the board certainly has, and I feel like I have to.

D

Say this on the record tonight, the board certainly does have jurisdiction over the zoning portions of.

D

The approvals, but the water appropriation permit in particular, is a state process, a rather lengthy.

D

One that the state imposes on- and I think that's really a state law issue and and not as much an.

D

Issue before this board and all that being said, you have an applicant here. You know that has.

D

Testified that he's run a similar operation before has never had any issues and he's willing to.

D

Address any issues that come up from this before I don't know what else the the applicant could do.

N

If I remember, if I understood correctly, the applicant said.

N

He has been mining gravel for 20 years and hasn't had to replace a well. Is that correct.

N

So that's correct. We everybody knows, though, that the water aquifer is dropped.

N

And what, if you're, not going to dig a well, what are you going to do in.

N

August, when it hasn't rained for two weeks close down your operation.

Q

Yep, well, we have we've done that before about 2006, we had a very dry summer and we did.

Q

Haul, some out of some farm ponds and some of the mennonite neighbors shared some of their water and.

Q

Hold it back to the plant and it worked. That would be my next option other than shutting down. If I.

C

May the water appropriation use permit item number 11 does say that if the administration determines.

C

A drought period or emergency exists, the permit team may be required to stop or reduce water use.

N

I read that and I apologize to the board and to mr lacey I characterized that it wouldn't affect.

C

Drinking, I don't have a shallow. Well, I often forget our neighbors, who do have shallow wells.

C

Right so that was a misstatement on my part, mr chairman. Yes, a comment, I did some research on this.

F

On our previous previous thing, we had often times there's several aquifers on a piece of property.

F

And nobody really knows if there are ponds or lakes that are not moving or streams or rivers.

F

uh Some people think they know, but I don't think anybody really knows if they're ponds or lakes.

F

Or streams or rivers, if there are streams of rivers, that's constantly being replenished.

F

If it's a pond or a lake, then there could be a problem, but I don't think we really know. I.

F

I did some research about about a year ago on the same subject and a lot of people talk about.

F

It, but nobody really knows what those there are: a pond: a lake, a stream or a river. If it's.

F

Stream of river there's no problem. If there's a pond that you yell it's used up, we don't know.

I

Okay, is there anything members of the board one other one, one other item and I'm sorry, I think.

D

There's a little delay, so I'm not trying to talk over anybody. um If I am, I I hear.

D

Voices a few minutes a few seconds after I I speak tonight, so I apologize if I'm talking.

D

Over anybody, I'd also note in the water appropriation permit, that is in the.

D

Is exhibit two attachment three on board docs? The condition um number 10 also allows the state.

D

To come in and make additional either amend the permit or add additional conditions to it.

D

In the event that the state determines that it's necessary to protect, control and manage the water.

D

Resources of the state, so the state does retain that jurisdiction in this permit and again that's.

D

That's one of the reasons I pointed out that this is a state law issue, because the state does.

D

Retain that authority, if there was something catastrophic that would happen again, that.

D

We don't believe the state believes that or they would not have issued the permit, and that was the.

D

Two and a half year process, or so that that mr sloan has gone through. But there is that.

D

Authority to make him amend what he's doing if there is a problem with it within the climate.

A

This is dan iknowski. Mr vuckmer, have you submitted.

A

Other groundwater appropriations permits similar to this for a mining operation.

P

No sir, first one first one: okay thank.

A

K

Mr lacey was there anything else? Yes, um I just wanted to say thank you for.

J

Hearing me and I'm not against mr sloan having his mining operation across the road from me.

J

I want to be a good neighbor, but I also want to have some water for my eyes.

A

Okay. Thank you, sir all right. Thank you very much. Is there anybody else.

E

Did you check for sure? No, not yet sorry. Somebody else come here.

A

Would you raise your hand and please uh take the oath? Do you declare an affirm.

A

Under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be.

A

The whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do and your name jason owens frank annually.

R

Address uh 28632 point lookout, road, uh leonardtown, maryland, would love to. I live right behind him.

A

Okay, thank you, sir. Would you take your hat off please, yes, yeah, sorry about that. um My biggest.

R

Thing I'm curious about hours of operation. I believe mr sloan already operates his other plant.

R

From seven to five monday, through friday, with the maintenance on saturday from seven to twelve.

R

Just curious, if that was going to remain um if he could, or they could answer that that'd be fine.

R

I think we discussed that earlier, and that was money I didn't get a the evening hour. I guess, but.

R

uh Well, the current. Basically, my question was whether or not they would could work with the.

G

Existing conditions, which were those hours that are already there so are you.

C

Would you like me to repeat those hours, sir, yes, okay, so the current conditions that the.

C

Mine is um required to operate under hours of operation from monday to friday, 7 a.m, to 5 p.m.

C

And from 7 a.m to 12 p.m, on saturday, for site maintenance, only all right and no burning right.

C

Is that another condition yeah um the burning is burning on site is limited to the area designated.

C

On page 13 of 23 of the site plan, which we do not have um included as an exhibit tonight,.

C

Yeah, that's. That is not included. No, that's the whole thing. That's that's on record, as.

C

The previous condition they suggested this was going to supersede. No, I think this was.

A

If that was going to phase out- and this was going to come in right.

G

He would he's not requesting to abandon his previously approved conditional use. He's.

C

Simply asking to add a wash plant as depicted on the exhibits presented tonight so when they.

G

Said they were happy with those conditions really that one about burning? I was incorrect.

C

Correct I they would have to tell you what your what you mean was. I I don't understand what you.

D

Mean by that what well mr sloane said that he's willing to retain the conditions that are on there.

D

We weren't here tonight seeking to change this. uh We're simply here asking to add the wash plant.

D

To the existing mining operation, they were never intended to be removed. Tonight, we're not asking to.

D

Get rid of the old conditional use and replace it with a new one. That is not our intent. That was not.

D

In our application, we're simply asking to amend the existing conditional use to allow.

D

The wash plant, no all I'm saying, is we're not super finding the existing conditions.

G

By this action, that's correct and we were not yeah, that's correct and we were not requesting that.

D

They'd be selling okay. So that answers your question too yeah. That's it! I'm I'm for the.

R

Operation I used to work for maryland rock, so I get what needs to be done. I just want to make sure.

R

Just what to expect once I hear some sand and gravel beating and banging across the road.

R

So I appreciate it. Okay, thank you very much. Anybody on the phone.

N

E

Miss young do we have any callers. We do not have any at this time.

E

Okay, thank you. Thank you. One last call anybody else in the audience speak for against comments.

A

In that case, I'll close the public testimony and open it up to the board discussion.

F

To um I have no problem with it.

K

Mr lawnmower need a submission. I'm sorry, chris, you want to make a final summation, yeah and.

D

I'll be brief, I think you know: we've submitted the standards letter and I'd also highlight the.

D

Staff report, the written staff report- that's in board doc that addresses those standards.

D

I think that mr buckman mentioned it or in the staff presentation all the applicable agencies.

D

I believe now I've submitted comments that um have no problem with the approval. That's here.

D

um Again, we were happy to come tonight to amend it. There was that note on the original site plan.

D

That said, material would not be washed with the plan.

D

But we're simply asking to allow the wash plant to be operational in the existing mine.

D

That's there. We certainly appreciate the neighbors coming out tonight. The nature in which.

D

uh They did it and um it's very nice to be in front of you with an applicant that you know takes.

D

To heart, addressing those concerns and is willing to stay on the record, so we you know submit on the.

D

Standards, but if you have specific questions about any of them, certainly let us know, but.

D

Between our letter and the written staff report, we think they're addressed adequately, so thank you.

A

Okay, now more discussion, um I think the fact that he's shutting down the other plant pretty much.

K

And it's going to get all that traffic. That's currently on friendship, school road, we'll be out.

K

On route, 5 and won't be interacting with a lot of that back road with no shoulders. And it's just a.

K

Lot smaller road- and I think that's a wonderful thing- I really do to get it off that back road.

G

I have a problem with the water issue, it seems like we don't know, even if the person.

G

Came on site or came down here or even knows how many surface wells there are.

G

And whether or not the water will impact that I mean the gentleman here is absolutely right. I mean.

G

There's just too many, as I say, mennonites, that I know in those areas that have shallow wells and.

G

What do we do we, let the what the cow get out of the barn before we enact what the.

G

Permit says here shut down the operation. You know these families have to live on water too.

G

So I hear what mr sloan is saying and that's I realize it's all in good faith, but how many.

G

Other places are potentially impacted other than the gentleman across the street, and I just don't.

G

Know what the geologist has put into his reporter, what it's based on I mean mr richardson, is right.

G

We don't do we know what what is feeding this. I mean. We don't even know that in this report, so I'm.

G

Just saying do we have enough information to act? Is the question I have in terms of the water issue.

F

If you go to the computer and look at look at the aquifers, there's several aquifers, some go all the.

F

Way from delaware to southern virginia passing through maryland, others go the other direction.

F

Sometimes there's four aquifers in one area- some are very shallow and some are some are deep.

F

I don't think we really know and again I use the same words if it's a pond there's a problem, a lake.

F

Or a stream or river we don't know, I don't think these geologists really know.

F

And I did a lot of research before and and I don't think, there's a good clue.

F

We can ask more questions, but I don't think people are really know.

G

I'm just saying I don't know what was the scope of this person's investigation, but he did say most.

F

Of the waters is recycled, reusable recycled, the wrong word, but use again and again the same day.

N

I do think it's very generous of mr sloan to offer to replace those wells that that do go dry.

N

The only problem is, is what is the circumference from the point where he's using it? That's my.

N

Concern how many wells are we talking about? I'm relying on mr sloane's testimony that.

K

His current wash operation on friendship, school road, I think he said- he's been.

K

There close to 20 years- and he hasn't had a problem- they hadn't replaced anywhere else.

B

Mr chair, if I may, uh we've seen a number of these uh mining operation.

B

Applications in you know different contexts and uh mr longmore kind of alluded to this.

B

There is a state law that- and I think this comes up in most of these cases um that says that.

B

State regulation of these mining operations gravel extraction. What have you supersedes our authority.

B

Except in traditional zoning contexts, and so what mr longmore was alluding to earlier, is that this.

B

Board is to constrain its consideration of this case to traditional zoning issues.

B

And I guess there's a fine line there, but how do you define traditional zoning issues.

B

My question, though I guess for the applicant is it sounds like he may have proffered.

B

At least as to mr lacey that if mr lacey's well runs dry, that he will replace that well,.

B

And I don't know from the from the testimony whether he's proffered to do that. For.

B

Other adjoining properties and going back to the question of whether he's proffered.

B

To do that within a certain radius or certain distance from this property, but it sounds like he.

B

At least, I think would make such a proffer.

B

And I guess I'll throw that to mr longmore and the applicant. Well that that's good to say that, but.

D

Yeah I mean, I guess I'll, have you, what document do we have? I can have you force the state permit.

A

So what I would think is is that maybe we ought to have something as a conditional condition for the.

A

Use here and for the well since we're expanding to be a wash plant now yeah that, and that was where.

B

I was going with that that if mr uh sloan would proffer it, we could put that in as a condition.

A

And I would, I would recommend or suggest.

A

That, if the state feels that a quarter of a mile right now is, is adequate for their study.

A

Purposes then that's perhaps all we should do it's a quarter mile radius from the well site.

A

That if any wells fail in that area, they'll be replaced by the applicant. I think it's a good idea.

K

A quarter mile from where that's well from where he doesn't have a well the pond from the pond yeah.

C

I believe the state permits said extraction point which the water is extracted from the pond. Now.

C

Unlike a well head, which is a fairly small point on the ground, the pond is a larger point, so.

C

The center of gravity of the pond: well, no, I wasn't. I wasn't suggesting that, but I mean.

C

But if you say the pond you're actually getting a quarter mile from a larger.

C

Geographic area- I'm not I'm not advocating for against that. That's what fills up the pond so.

A

That's a very good point: that's what fills up the possibilities, the perimeter of the pond so.

A

That's what it should be a quarter mile from the perimeter of the pond? Okay, so that would say it's.

N

A quarter of a mile: how far is it from that pond to route five? Can you measure uh I'm getting there.

N

Because a quarter of a mile might not be enough yeah, mr murphy, let's turn off that! Okay may.

O

Mr scott alluded to a question. Well, first, I'd like to say that mr scott's position.

O

As well as mr longmores is the position of the county that this board and the zoning ordinance.

O

Are limited to what are what the court of appeals calls classic zoning considerations.

O

And mr scott uh said what are classic zoning considerations, I think he said traditional.

O

Zoning considerations and, in fact the court of appeals has said exactly what they are so classic.

O

Zoning considerations include quote the impact of the use on neighboring properties.

O

Due to emissions from the site increase in noise increase in traffic danger to children, children.

O

Impairment of landscape and visual concerns etc, and that's from cheney enterprises, a verse.

O

I believe it's prince short county council of prince george's county verse, cheney enterprises.

O

Limited partnership and the site for that, for the record is 454 maryland 514 27 case and the.

O

Actual page reference of that is page 544 have the maryland reporter. Thank you. That's all thank.

B

You, mr murphy, thank you thank you. Do we get a quarter mile yet yep? Let me share it. Real, quick.

G

A quarter mile from the shoreline of the pond, no matter where it is all right, I'm just saying.

G

So you can go quarter this way quarter this way quarter that way, but from the shoreline.

N

Meanwater hot meat, so if it's a 10 mile lake I mean these are the ponds that they're using.

A

Yeah, it's not that big. Do you want an area I'm looking for from one corner from one spot on the.

A

Pond: okay, a quarter mile a quarter mile; okay; in other words, the nearest uh miles which too.

C

That's good right. There yeah towards her outfit. Mr lacy lived across the.

C

Yeah, that's a tenth of a mile and that's a tenth of a mile tenth quarter of a mile long.

E

Yeah, um mr lacey, could you give us your address again, 28640.

C

Is that him, you made six five right here right there measure from his house to the pond.

E

Two: no 206 borough; yes, two, eight, six, okay, eight, six, four, oh yeah! Okay, do you have to zoom out.

E

You want miles um yeah just to measure miles is good. Okay, here down here,.

A

0.16 miles: are you sharing your screen to zoom from having a hard time seeing.

D

The I don't know if perry you're having the same issue- okay, yeah yeah- I I I can't see it.

C

You might not be sharing here, we go. Thank you. So much appears to cover that would cover accordingly,.

E

Thank you. Okay, if you did it around right, because I'm thinking the stop is hey. Stacey, you're.

P

You're you're on a settling pond. That's on the property. The the pond is to the east right here.

P

Further further further the dark bond, the darker the dark right there.

E

Would be tradition, the water will be extracted okay. So it's the original, that's the pond, but.

A

You got to figure the the amish, and mr lacey are probably the only people that have sheldon wells.

A

Shallow well, everybody else has a demon and that's why. I wonder whether geologists ever.

A

Researched that they should have because they take oh, they they're.

A

Supposed to take all of the information from the health department, while drilling.

G

I understand that, but without their testimony or their statement in a report, we have no idea.

C

But we do have their well approved permit for them too. I know, but sometimes people bureaucrats, pencil.

G

Whip stuff, I hate to tell you that, but having been there for 40 years, I'm well aware of that. Okay.

A

That's what I would hate to see happen and mr lacy as an example, is that his will goes dry. He has no.

A

No recourse with the county to do anything and then he's got to wait for the state to finally.

A

Find somebody come down, take a look, investigate, yeah and come up with a proper decision. I think.

A

It ought to be in a condition, at least what we're doing tonight, so that the county has absolutely.

A

Need to go forward, I agree. I believe that there should be a condition associated with the water.

G

The question is, I don't know how many are in that area. Well, again, anything further than that.

K

A quarter of a mile seems large to me from where it's at it's showing.

K

Mr lacy's properly one point, but it's like a tenth of a mile right. That's right! Instead of.

K

A quarter of a mile, that's edible. The question is how many shallow wells are in that quarter. Mile.

G

Because mr sloan would like know that, because he doesn't know what he's obligating himself to. I.

G

Think once we get past, we get to the point where, where, where the the wells run dry, I.

A

Think we're going to see his pond dry will run dry first before the wells in the areas.

A

That's that's just a an opinion, mr chairman sure mr sloan is confident so confident that he would.

P

Be willing to proffer a half a mile within that pond um that if any weld any shallow wells run.

P

Dry, he would take care of them within a half mile of the pond, and I think I can buy that if anything.

A

Beyond that gets gets now you gotta fight and then it's mde's responsibility, yeah. Okay, that's.

A

Better: okay, half a mile, can you buy that sir? That's the heat he offered it the proper of a.

G

Half mile radius: well, I'm within a quarter mile radius you're, not at the microphone: okay, okay, okay,.

J

I'm still on the uh yeah still, the only thing that I would like to bring up is the amish.

J

And the mennonites in my in our community don't have electricity, so even if he agreed to put in.

J

A four or five hundred foot: well, they don't have electricity, I mean diesel run, but they do.

G

Run their wood shops and everything else with electricity right or pneumatics or pneumatics.

J

Or pneumatic, but I I don't know if there's such a thing as a.

J

Pneumatic pump that'll pump full 500 foot yeah, I'm not I'm sure there is, but if I may interrupt.

C

I think uh mr longmore would have good grounds to say that public testimony had been closed and okay.

C

Yeah, so I'll concur with that there was a question from the board and I think we've got it clarified.

A

Thank you, sir. I just wanted to be on record to show that I, okay, yes and yeah, and you have.

B

Okay, thank you, mr laser. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Where did we leave them.

A

We were a discussion, are we not yeah we're discussion and a half mile proffer from.

G

The applicant from the applicant correct, counselor, correct yes, okay, I would hate to. We were talking.

K

Quarter miles at first, but how can he see in the future? You know I'd hate to you know.

K

Because there's a just within the tenth mile is mr lacey's house, I don't know how many houses.

K

Are within a half a mile, but the point I guess I I believe in is that not I don't know for a fact.

A

But I would venture to say not a lot of those have dug wells unless I agree with that. I agree with.

K

That so that the probability of a lot of those houses in that area having their well go dry.

A

From groundwater extraction, I don't think it's well. You want to constrict it to.

K

To dug wells, I just you don't know, what's going to happen with that, prefer the base could drill.

K

A 20-inch thing and everybody's well go dry. I'd, I'd hate to you know for him trying to.

K

Get this approved I'd hate for him to be stuck with something that later on might bite him.

K

For for no reason I hear you I mean I mean quarter mile or just doug.

K

Wells either either one of those I'd go with, but doug wells within a half mile. I'm fine with that.

K

But but not everybody's well within a half a mile. That's what we that's expensive shallow and it's.

G

Not defined whether it's 30 or 40 or 50 right, but shallow, well, the guy went in and dug it and.

G

Put his own liner in, which is what the mennonites have done right, but shallow wells, I'm perfectly.

K

Fine with that, you know, mr sloane is the quote: unquote expert, because he's done this for 20 years.

N

And he really is, I mean he he's proffered the 20. I mean the uh half a mile he's really.

N

Sure that's not going to happen, so I'm ready to make a motion shallow woods. Okay,.

N

I'm tired of talking about it, no matter what you want get out.

K

I don't know I want to get out of here too, but you know I want to be fair.

K

I think that's unfair, aren't sitting here that that wouldn't come here.

G

Oh, I agree with that. Okay, I agree with that also, but I I you know I don't. I don't want him.

K

You know stuck with something I mean when he offered the half mile and if we define.

G

What the well is, if you define it as shallow, well something yellow, dug hand, hand dug wells. I'm fine.

K

I'm perfectly fine with that within a half mile great and if he's willing to do that and counselor.

D

Just just briefly, to put on the record legally, we believe this is a state preempted issue, but again.

D

I'm here with a client that wants to address it with this board, because we understand your.

D

Concerns the condition that he would be willing to do the half-mile radius is for shallow or doug.

D

Wells within a half-mile radius that he would be willing to replace. I think that addresses the.

D

Concerns that have been raised here tonight um and it's a profit that really goes beyond what.

D

We believe the illegal authority of the board is, but you have a citizen here asking for something.

D

um And he wants to address the concerns of his neighbors, so I'm proud that he's doing that.

D

But for the record I feel like I had to state that, but it is a half mile radius he's willing.

D

To agree to a condition of dug or shallow wells, okay, I'm good. Okay, then do it. Okay,.

K

In the matter of cuap number 20. dash 131-001 sloan gravel mine wash plant, having made a finding.

K

That the standards for granting a conditional use in the objectives of section 51.3.82 of saint.

K

Mary's county comprehensive zoning ordinance have been met. I moved to approve the request.

K

To allow the sloan gravel mine to install the proposed wash plant with the four conditions.

K

Number one burning on site is limited to designated area two hours of operation from monday.

K

To friday, seven a.m to five pm and from seven a.m, to 12 p.m. On saturday, for site, maintenance only.

K

Three: compliance with state highway administration entrance permit and four that.

K

They will replace any hand dug or shallow wells within a half hour made it radius of the pond.

K

On the site, okay, second motion and second but you're, saying.

F

Mr richardson, yes chairman, I hate to interrupt, but I I need to clarify one thing so.

C

Just for um there was testimony tonight of an intent to provide a future office um building and.

C

Scale that are not depicted on any of the exhibits. um Is it your intention tonight to.

C

Approve those future editions without having to come back before the board.

K

Yes, yes, yes, yes want them. Yes, do you want to put that in there? Yes motion, you want to add that to.

K

Them you want to put that in as a condition, not a condition, but an acknowledgement in the motion.

C

That they do when they propose to add those to the wash plant. It does not have to come back before.

C

The board: oh yes, I'm good with that. Okay, that's part of the motion! Yes, part of the second, a second.

A

Okay, well for the vote. Mr richards! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Okay! As you hear, the conditional use has been.

A

Approved an order reflecting the board's decision will be prepared by staff and signed by the board.

A

Within 60 days, a 30-day period follows from that date when the order signed in which any aggrieved.

A

Party may appeal to the board's decision to the circuit court secretary, the reporting secretary.

A

Will mail you a copy of the order once it has been signed and again? Thank you all very much.

K

Thank you. Good luck. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you, members of the board. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Okay, if we could go on, I think we have.

A

Minutes of the march 11 2021 meeting, I think they were mailed to all of us and is there.

A

A motion to approve so moved, second, all in favor all right and then we have also received.

A

Orders for daap number, 1746, town, creek, marina, burkhart appeal any comments on those orders.

G

Other than mr chairman, I thought it was written very, very well. I liked the way it was presented.

K

That commercially signed the order. Second, all in favor.

A

Aye then, we have a second order for um zaap 20 132 006 711, on millstone, landing appeal.

A

I no wait a minute. Okay, you have a discussion.

G

Second, okay, discussion and discussion: I have a comment about the order in that.

G

It when it taught nick's the proposed concept plan may be served by adequate public facilities.

G

How can we say that, when the road intersection adjacent to it is failed.

G

Or has a d rating and it was never mentioned. In other words, if I compare and I shouldn't compare.

G

But one order presented all the facts. This one doesn't present the fact.

G

That there was a traffic study and the results of that traffic study.

G

Failed, in other words, the adequate public facilities portion of this.

G

One porsche portion had a failure on it, not saying that the board didn't vote to approve it, but.

G

Should not be documented in the order? That's my question.

B

So if I recall the testimony correctly that evening, um the traffic engineer presented.

B

Their traffic study and the conclusion was that, even though the um the uh service or operation of.

B

Those intersections uh was a level d that a level d is still allowed and permitted under the zoning.

B

Ordinance and so they didn't fail- and mr knight can correct me if I'm wrong on that, so the the.

B

The intersections did not, or the intersection in question did not actually fail, and also that that.

B

Finding of adequacy of public facilities is a necessary part of our finding with respect to.

B

The approval of the concept site plan it is, it is one of the elements in the zoning ordinance.

C

Things that it may be served by adequate public facilities. It's the director of land use growth.

C

Management at the time of major site plan approval, who shall determine that it is served. Thank.

B

You for that clarification, that's an important point, but I will also point out you're talking.

G

About only one type of study, the traffic study included, two one was utilizing the clv methodology.

G

Which did fail and the other one was the hcm methodology that had a d okay. So one of the.

G

Two studies failed, the other was marginal okay, none of that is mentioned in the order.

B

um It is in the record, though it isn't a part of the testimony and certainly part of the.

B

The proceeding, but it didn't even mention that the traffic study was presented.

G

When you wrote one for the other side, you documented what was presented in the order.

G

I'm just saying: there's there's a style of writing orders. What should we follow? That's the question.

G

I'm just asking here sorry to prolong the the time frame. Okay was that mr chairman.

B

Is it the board's um pleasure that that order be amended or revised and then brought back to the.

B

Board we've got of course, 60 days under our rules from the date of the hearing, in order to sign the.

B

Order and then what what what would the additional language in the order say? Well, I guess that's my.

B

Question mr brown, it sounds like you want more of the well. I just recognize the pros and cons of the.

G

Traffic study period- well, I would say the traffic study is a couple years old. It's irrelevant. It's.

F

Changed so much reality is to set in the traffic is so different. Now than that study was and stuff.

F

Is old and it's outdated and it's almost irrelevant well, the applicant didn't choose to.

G

Negate it so they wanted it, they put it in. This is what they presented. Why shouldn't.

G

We be documenting the fact, nothing more than there was a traffic study conducted.

G

Okay of such and such a date, and if nothing more, I would paraphrase the opening, they have a chart.

G

But basically, if I were doing it I'd say there was two methodologies.

G

Okay conducted and one was yielded this and the other yielded the other and and just leave it so.

B

If it's the board's pleasure, mr murphy, are you uh taking notes and prepared to make a.

B

Revision on that on that proposed order, but we do have a motion and a second on the floor. Yeah.

G

When you shut up, we've got a motion in a second. We should have to vote on that.

A

Okay, we do have a motion and a second on what was previously written.

A

The orders, so we ought to hear on what we think about that, mr richardson. Yes, no.

A

Yes, yes, yes, okay, four to one okay. um We also have this piece of paper that talks about um verify.

A

Additional dates, availability for the 2021 year below january through june, and we're finished with.

A

April so you're showing what's happening in may or what's on the schedule for may and june.

A

And you want to know there are if we are available for additional dates,.

A

Should we run over, is that correct? Well, we're just showing you that.

C

We have already tentatively reserved those dates for this room if it becomes necessary. We.

C

We aren't proposing it's necessary, but in the event that holding four cases in may.

C

One of them does not finish. We have two backup dates in may. Should you request a continuance to.

C

Be heard in may okay, so we do have dates available yeah. This is more for information. It's not asking.

C

Any action on your part and it'll be continued to a date, certainly yeah. I was wondering.

A

Thank you very much. It takes care of that on another separate item, real quick. We were. I.

A

Was wondering whether the board would consider having perhaps a retreat for a morning a day.

A

Or an afternoon or an evening where we could just bring up general items amongst ourselves and ask.

A

How we do this, how we do that, should we do this? Should we do that and see if staff would be able.

A

To maybe even make a presentation on things that they think might benefit us, so I think.

F

It's a nice idea: we've done that before, but does that have to be open to the public? Yes, yes, yes,.

A

Public, it's not a public hearing. We don't have to hear from the public it's a meeting. It's an open.

B

Meeting but we have to let them know that that meeting's happening and that they can be in the.

A

Room while it's what's going on yeah, so anybody that would want to sit through that boring topic.

B

Could hey amy I've seen it I've seen it and we're not serving beer and would amy be the one? That's.

G

Still photographing all this, so that goes on the record too. Okay, no beer harry. Would you look into.

A

That and maybe maybe give some ideas for the next meeting as to um when how this would work.

A

And some certainly I mean um so, for instance, um if you wanted to pick some of these dates for.

C

That purpose you could and because, if you all, are comfortable with it being an evening meeting.

C

You know, because we do have this room tentatively reserved for these dates for your purposes,.

C

So would you want to you, do it in april.

C

15Th, 22nd or 28th, would you want to do it may 20th 27th, or would you rather not do it.

C

um As an evening meeting, I I I like the idea- and I just like to have had the chairman pick a date.

F

There's no justice suggested; we don't have to do it tonight. We can do it.

F

Later about may 27th: okay, wait a minute timeout.

K

We've had these before.

K

Mr thompson, we've had him down at uh harry lumber and normally we've had guest speakers.

K

And like people from critical areas, commission and state highway, we've had the best one. We had.

K

Ever and just my opinion was we had the heads of the departments like soil conservation.

K

And uh planning and zoning and and how the just to sit back and hear.

K

What they do together was so informative to me or or the lack thereof to where they they don't. You.

K

Think they're they're doing it, but they're really not. That was good. That was very informative for.

K

You know the board, but I'm I'm just throwing that out there and they've done that.

K

Well, you have, I wasn't there, um but I heard about it um and yes, mr hayden, you know was very.

C

It was very nice that he could offer a separate meeting room. um If so, you know I can schedule a.

C

Meeting room I um and we can talk at the next meeting. If that's what you'd like to do about.

C

Subject matter and who we should invite, but- um and so maybe everyone just needs to think about.

C

It more about what, time of day, what day of the week you have in mind. Okay, um because I didn't.

C

Hear a whole bunch of yes: let's do it on a evening in here! Oh no! I'm fine with that. Why don't we do.

A

That again, I guess that's where we start off won't. You watch come back um next month with a couple of.

A

Suggestions for topics, speakers um or topics that we ought to be talking about amongst ourselves,.

A

Yeah and then we can see how long that may run and then we'll go from there for.

A

Time and date I don't mean to supersade the chairman, but the at one point. I thought that mr.

G

Weiskopf had tried to get critical area to come down here and give us the talk. Well, they wanted.

G

To come down here and of course, I realized one time they snuck in here too. Okay, but but.

G

Anyway, I having been on this board for nine years other than seeing that one letter. What do I know.

G

About critical area, where they're coming from or anything else to me, they are a prime subject.

G

Because how many of our cases are all critical areas in some form or fashion yeah? They very.

C

Much tried to come down um and then covet hit, and um so they were scheduled to actually come.

C

To um several, but as a just a suggestion of one of your topics, it's a critical area. Commission, yeah.

G

That because they don't cover it at all, in that, what is it that the two-day training that we had.

G

Here no, there was 20 minutes, so that was the appeals board appeals board had 10 20 minutes.

G

But they didn't touch the critical area right. I timed it. It was 20 minutes of it. Mr richards.

C

Mr brown had questions about. You know how do we make these decisions of how to zone property? We.

C

Could certainly give you a presentation on that. um If mr guide, um I have to do nights.

C

The hearing's over join the board. There's no decision to be made here and so you're.

A

Welcome to participate so I get to talk. I have to do nights and tuesday nights.

L

Are the best for me, depending on what it is just due to work and everything else.

L

Okay, so um I hate to limit it to the board. If I have to watch it on youtube, I will.

L

Okay, I do have to do nights and, mr chairman, knowing that in three months he may be one. That's.

G

Sitting up here too, and- and I heard tuesday night yeah okay- unless you invoke that other.

C

Okay, all right so which would actually bring us back to do. We want to maybe pick one of these or.

C

We're going to let's hold off, I mean they're. Still there they're going to still be there. I understand.

A

The decision next week, yep next month, except and then consideration of critical areas that they're.

K

Coming from annapolis, we might want to try to get them in early got a new hotel in the area yeah. You.

C

Know the one reason they didn't make it last time is their car literally broke down their state car.

A

A snowstorm and then let larry use this yeah. Okay, I can try getting tired.

C

If you all have any thoughts on topics um you know, send them to myself or sherry young okay,.

C

Stacy and um but we'll um try to wrap we'll try to solidify this at next month's. Here.

C

Okay sounds good motion to a jar milkshake to your second, all in favor aye. Thank you.