St. Mary's County, MD Board of Appeals for St. Mary's County, 11 Mar 2021

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From YouTube: 3/11/21 Board of Appeals for St. Mary's County

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Good evening this is the march 11 2021 meeting of the saint.

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Mary's county board of appeals and we're located right now in the commissioners.

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Of st mary's county meeting room of the chesapeake building.

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41770-41770 baldridge street in leonardtown maryland, I'm the chairman of the board.

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Dan igneowski- and we have four other members that are here with us tonight,.

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Therefore, we have the minimum requirements for a quorum and we will proceed with the meeting due to.

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The board of appeals meeting not being open to the public, currently applicants and or representatives.

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Are participating through teleconference on webex, this meeting can be viewed on channel.

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95 or the county's youtube channel also, the public may just listen to the meeting.

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On their phones, but not speaking to the board by calling 1 301 five, seven, nine seven, two.

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Three six and then use the access code. Nine, six, three, four, four: three followed by the pound sign.

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If any members of the public would like to participate in the public session by talking.

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They may talk to the board during public testimony. Please call the following number 301-475-4200.

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Extension one two: three four: when you call this number, ms sherry young recording secretary, will.

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Take your name address phone number and email. In other words, this will be a virtual sign-in sheet.

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Michonne will place you in line on hold after I announce.

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That we're opening the meeting to public testimony. I will open the meeting to public testimony after.

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Presentations and testimony by the applicant and representatives that have been completed.

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When you are taken off hold you'll be asked to state your name and address for the record. I will.

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Swear you in you will have three minutes to ask your questions or to make your comments directly.

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To the board, comments will be recorded and heard by those of us in the chesapeake building webex.

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Participants, channel 95 and on youtube after the public comment portion of the meeting is over.

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The case will return to the board for discussion and decision at this point in time. I'd like to.

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Have the members of the board introduce themselves wayne good evening wayne madinski lynn, delahaye.

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And again, I'm dan eknowski, john brown and virginia tech is playing at 8 30 today maryland one.

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Good evening, rich richardson uh good evening, steve scott board attorney.

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And also we have joining us through a webex teleconference is guy bradley. The alternate.

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Member for the board of appeals, there are several members in the audience here that are from.

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From the st mary's county government supporting staff- and they are bill, hunt.

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The lugum director harry knight, deputy director of lug at lion, use growth management.

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Stacey clements planner, three and neil is not here, but the county attorney is dave.

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Dave's here also joining us in the savage conference room is sheri young.

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The board of appeals recording secretary webex conference also, I do we have john dietrich here.

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Mr mills is on the line and then we have instead of the director of public works. We.

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Have donnie mills? We have one public hearing tonight and the case on the agenda and it is.

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Zaap20132006 millstone landing 7-eleven.

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Before we start the the hearing for the viewers at home, you will be able to see the staff.

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And applicant presentations on channel 5 or youtube as these presentations are being shown.

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You can also see the documents that have been submitted for this case by going to board docs.

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Miss clements will now demonstrate how to locate and use board docs okay good evening.

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It's just verifying we're sharing. Okay, nope.

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The screen went dark and now it's over here, yeah, okay,.

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That's okay! Well, you need you need that string over here too.

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There you go now mm-hmm. I just want to make sure that's up there right now.

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Okay, okay, there we go, we would um in order to view all the documents on board docs. We need to go to.

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St mary's s-t-m-a-r-y-s md.com and once you're to the st mary's county homepage, you want to hit the.

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Tab, that's labeled board docs up at the top.

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Okay, it'll take a moment for it to load. It's a large program.

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Okay, once we're loaded, we want to pick out tonight's meeting. We are looking for.

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Thursday march 11th board of appeals meeting.

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And here we have thursday march 11th, also verified here on the left. We go down into.

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The center we can view the agenda and, on your left hand, side. We can see the public hearing for.

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Millstone landing 7-eleven, you pull that up and all the agenda items will show up on your screen.

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Okay, thank you. Oh you're, welcome we'll begin the presentation tonight with the staff giving the.

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Presentation and stacy and harry will you both be participating and be sworn in? If you stand.

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Please, and raise your right hand, do you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the.

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Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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I do thank you and whoever's taking off take off okay, okay,.

C

Okay, tonight we're hearing for a public hearing for march 11 2021.

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Or 2021 we are going to hear a zoning application.

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Zoning appeal 20-132006 millstone landing 7-eleven. The applicant is requesting to appeal a decision.

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Of the planning commission on december 16 2020, the planning commission denied the concept approval.

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For the proposed convenience store fuel sales canopy in a car wash.

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The property was posted and legal ad was printed in the local southern maryland news on february 19.

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2021 and february 26 2021, all the neighbors were notified within 200 feet of the property before.

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The cut-off date of february 24th 2021.

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Okay, tonight's hearing is a request for concept plan approval.

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This is to be heard de novo, which means it's a fresh start. A new hearing begins, therefore,.

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Staff enters the following attachments as seen on board docks into the record.

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We have the land use and growth management staff report to the planning commission.

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We have the concept site plan, the color, renderings and sign signage plan. The landscaping plan.

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State highway commons dated 716 2020 a turn lane extension plan traffic study dated 9 11 2020. We.

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Also have the revised adequate public facilities, application dated 1023 2020 state highway commons.

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Dated 1029 2020, an email to state highway, 1111 2020., the email response from state highway.

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On 11 12 2020., we also have dpw's traffic impact study memo dated.

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November 12 2020 and state highway, plat number 54770.

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Would you like to review any of those before we continue on.

G

Are you talking about dislike any of the um oh, the other slide? No, I want you to get you on that slide.

G

Okay, okay, um the board must find um whoops. Now. What did I do? Oh you took it away. I know. Let's see.

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Okay, let's find the findings.

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Are we seeing it up there? No okay, she's, just taking us off, though okay.

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Yep, okay: the findings must the board must find that the proposed development meets.

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Is consistent with a comprehensive plan in applicable, functional plans.

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B may be served by adequate public facilities is required by section. 70.2.2 c is consistent with.

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The county's annual growth policy, including all required phasing plans d, will promote the health.

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Safety, welfare of the general public e, adequate development, recreational and other community.

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Amenities are provided in accordance with the comprehensive plan and the comprehensive zoning.

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Ordinance also f is consistent with chapter 62 design, objectives yep, and that was it.

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Okay, that is our presentation chairman. I got a question. Go ahead, okay, item b up there may.

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Be served by adequate public facilities, as required by sections 7.2.2, and maybe I was.

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Going to ask council for his opinion on this, but as the planning commission, we must find.

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That the proposed development may do as that bullet says. However, paragraph 70.2.2 states.

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For site plans, adequacy determination shall be made at final site review. There appears to be an.

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Inconsistency in the comprehensive zoning ordinance, in other words, what what this commission.

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Since we're acting as that and then what mr hunt's function would be, so is there an ambiguity.

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I realize the operative word is may be served up there, but I just want to you know, because.

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If he's the decider, why are we here, okay, yeah, and I I believe this came up on a a similar.

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Case not too long ago and the word may be served by adequate public facilities. I think that's a.

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An initial finding, based upon the record that we're able to make- and I believe this has gone.

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To technical evaluation right committee and that that that initial finding has been made, so we are.

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First first person in the in the tunnel as far as making a decision.

H

That would be one of the elements of our, in other words, it would go through. We would we.

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Would be a decision maker or if it went got passed on then mr hunt would ultimately be.

G

Okay is specifically from section of the ordinance: oh yes, 60.5 and um the uh concept plan approval.

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60.6 0.4, a through f. um I would agree that there does seem to be a little inconsistency because it.

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Says for concept approval it's per that 70.2.2 and then we go to that and it says planning director.

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But this is the list for what the planning commission has to find for concept plan approval.

G

Okay, I just want to get that cleared up on the record. Okay, um the other question I have.

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Maybe a council first before an answer, but is it appropriate for me to ask why of the six criteria.

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Was there one or several that they um planning commission had had issues with.

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Would that be appropriate to ask that question so so that's a question of of evidence and what comes.

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Before us from an evidentiary point of view and questions of evidence per our rules are.

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Are determined if there's a if there's an issue or concern are determined by the chair.

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And our rule 5-104 a generally the chair, may admit, evidence which possesses possesses probative value.

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Commonly accepted by reasonable and prudent persons in the conduct of their affairs so.

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In my opinion, that's a fair question: what uh what happened at the planning commission even.

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Though this is a de novo hearing, that's a factual issue, that's um that has has occurred in this case.

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In other proceedings now that doesn't necessarily mean that that's prov other. That's that's a.

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Dispositive of the case, from our point of view, but it's an interesting fact again: that's up.

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To the chair to determine whether or not that's something that you want to admit into evidence or.

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You want to proceed with or have questions about or accept, factual information about.

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Well, the the the summaries of the planning commission meetings, their.

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Minutes they were included in the record here. Yeah, that's right! So in order to make up those.

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What's what's in that minutes, I think we have to know what those other items were, but the minutes.

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Only indicated how they voted, it did not state the reason that they overturned or disapproved.

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And also, I think, will of course this case goes forward. We need to provide documentation as to.

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Which way we go and why? I would also suspect that we'll hear some of that from the applicant, because.

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Obviously the applicant is the appellant here and and has reasons and rationale for appealing.

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This from the planning commission's uh proceedings other than the fact that it just wasn't approved.

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I think they'll also want to get a little more specific about why the planning commission was.

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Wrong about their decision in their view, but can staff answer that question? Certainly they.

H

Were part of the if the chair chooses to allow it certainly sure, okay? Well, I would feel that.

D

You somewhat answered that question that, if, by looking at that record, the minutes did not clearly.

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State what the reason the planning commission disapproved it um and that's the written record so.

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I wouldn't want to offer conjecture about why the planning commission disapproved it if it wasn't.

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Put in a written record decision by the planning was there anybody in this room, that was there.

G

Was there anybody in this room from luggum or.

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Council that were there um I watched it, but mr hunt, mr hunt, may I swear you in.

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Please raise your right hand, do you declare and affirm, under the penalty of perjury, that.

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The testimony responses statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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Thank you. I heard the question. Okay. The answer to the question from my perspective is that the.

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Entire record of the planning commission meeting was captured on video. That, to me, is the correct.

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Source for the answer to your question asking me or any other witness who is at that meeting.

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Is going to be a spontaneous response based on memory without being able to look at that, and it's.

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Going to potentially be prejudicial one way or the other, it's not the way to get at the facts. The way.

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To get at the facts are to look at the record of the hearing, which is the video record now my.

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Question is normally when we have a discussion, we say why we want to go one direction or the other.

G

What you're telling me is, it appears that they never stated that.

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Well, no, sir, I would not want you to interpret what I'm telling you.

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As meaning that now is that I don't see that in the record, is it in the record that video.

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The video is the record of the hearing. Is it in the record as presented here our record? That's.

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In front of us as it exhibits, it's on board docs on board docs. Is it a part of this case.

G

That's my question for your attorney. Not for me speaking on behalf is loving's attorney tonight.

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um There's two types of hearings: there's a on the record hearing and there's a de novo hearing. If.

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This was an on the record hearing. Then you would look at what the planning commission did and.

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Determine whether or not they did it correctly, a de novo hearing is, when you hear it brand new.

J

So you should not consider what the planning commission did, what you guys are going to do.

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Is hear the same evidence sit in the planning commission's roles and make a decision, but you.

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Know you shouldn't be watching board docs and seeing what the planning commission did, because.

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That's not evidence. What's evidence is what the applicant's about to uh present to you, but it's a.

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Brand new hearing- so I you know from the county's perspective, you shouldn't be delving into what the.

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Planning companies, the county, has one position. Our board attorney has another I'm just giving.

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You, the piano okay, he's giving you the county's position I just want to so. The bottom line is.

G

There is no response or no answer to that question. No, mr brown, I purposely did not um in our staff.

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Presentation to you, I purposely presented to you those attachments that logum staff had presented.

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To you, well I'm sorry, I purposely presented to you in the staff report those items that.

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Lugum had presented to the planning commission for the previous hearings. um I feel strongly as.

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A de novo hearing you are supposed to be hearing everything new and not rehashing the old case and.

D

um That's my answer to your question. I think mr brown, I think mr weiskopf and I were.

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Really trying to well, we were saying more the same thing than you might have.

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Realized- and my answer is if the chair chooses to allow some of that factual or some of that.

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Information from below it shouldn't be dispositive of your proceedings, because you are.

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A de novo board here, as you sit, uh but it really is up to the chair.

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If it's probative to allow it or not allow it now, the question is, and I think one of the things mr.

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Weiskopf was wondering is what value is it to really sit and and watch that proceeding, because.

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You're not bound by it, and you shouldn't be uh making your determination based upon it anyway.

G

And if that makes sense or mr weisskopf and I'm speaking in circles, he's got a mask on, he can't.

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Tell whether he's praying or not- and I would agree with mr hunt his his excellent answer- that.

D

You know I watched some of it. I wasn't in the room, but I watched it.

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And but again I shouldn't try to tell you tonight based on recollection that wouldn't be fair.

D

There also may be new evidence presented at this new hearing that was not presented at the past.

D

um Hearing her reigns. Listen. I just want to make the point really that the minutes do not reflect.

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Of that, commission do not reflect the reason that it was disapproved they just they have the names.

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Their votes and that's it what it wasn't was approved, and so there was what the minutes show.

D

Was there was a motion? The motion received a second, it failed to get a majority vote.

D

And so it in essence died on the table. Yeah. Mr chairman, thank you. That's all. I wanted to get.

G

Out of somebody as a another member of this board, I respectfully disagree with mr brown. I think that.

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The fact that it was published and read out loud that this is a de novo case, which means.

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A fresh start- I I personally wouldn't want to be president or you know, persuaded by something that.

K

I've watched so I think, we're chasing a rabbit hole here and probably need to move forward.

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I would say I would agree, I would agree with that. I think we should go forward with a de.

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Novo hearing um we got that I got the answer. I wanted right here. Okay, sorry, it took so long. Mr.

B

Chairman, I have a question sure uh on the list of attachments about the fifth one down: is the state.

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Highway administration dated 16 july 2020., could you pull up the attachment? Please? Yes, sir? Okay,.

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Let's see which one is um the fifth one down on the staff attachment.

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Okay staff attachments state highway july, 17th or july 16th; okay, there we go.

C

Okay, we've got it pulled up for you. uh How about the the attachment.

B

Which this starts out with district 5 traffic comments should be the third page down.

B

You got the attachment to that.

A

I think you have the letter. The next one down is the carbon copies who it was sent to.

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And then the next page below that would be the attachment that we're talking about there. You go.

A

That's it district, that's what you're looking for the one with ray mercado! Yes, sir, would the.

B

Look at paragraph six of the first excuse me, mr chairman, if I made the screen that I have.

F

From the county still has the powerpoint and not the exhibit you're looking at no aren't you.

B

The question I have is this paragraph six and I will not read the whole paragraph, but she said.

B

Depending on the length of time, the restaurant has been ceased operations, the net development trips.

B

And the traffic jam report could be 2004-98 instead of 1193. Does that.

B

Really mean that she's, just taking a guess out there to just double it and add 112.

B

What is it, what is that based on? Are you asking me, sir, could be 2498 trips instead of 1193.

B

Where's that coming from, I would not try to characterize or interpret the state highway.

D

Document, I think it would more be more appropriate and um within the rules that they could subpoena.

D

A state highway person could they not um certainly we we have that subpoena power. Sure.

H

I wonder if the applicant may be able to uh address that with their traffic engineer.

H

Okay yeah, it just seems strange that just out of thin air double it and add 112., I see no basis of.

B

Actual numbers or figures I wish I could help you with that. Okay, thank you.

G

Considering that the google satellite was wrong, you ready to go board have any other questions.

A

They will be available for questions later next. I guess we will have the applicant go ahead and make.

A

Their presentation and chris longmore, I think you will be leading the charge- is that correct.

F

Thank you, mr chairman yeah. I will begin this evening and then we have other.

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Members of our team that will present the engineering and application itself.

F

I will say, mr chairman, I don't know if you can hear it in the room.

F

But there's a strong delayed echo um for those of us logging in online.

F

I I believe we've had that before I don't know if there's a way to.

F

I hear my own words about a second and a half after I say each one.

F

That's much better now I believe. Okay, now we can. We can thank you.

F

And can I still be heard in the room not as well try to try a little closer to your microphone.

C

It says to get him off uh it's in my ear, so I can't get much closer. Is that better.

F

So I'll try to speak speak gladly if that assistant and if you need to turn it up so.

F

You can hear me I'll just try to deal with the echo, but it's kind of strong tonight.

F

Stronger than it's been other hearings, that's good! That's good! I think.

F

Okay, okay, thank you. um So what we would like to do tonight is I'll start with a brief presentation.

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And about where we're at in the process, and that may answer some of the questions or at least give.

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Our perspective on some of the questions that the board members raised initially and then I'll.

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Turn it over to our engineers in our presentation group, to give you the the details of our proposal.

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I'm I'm going to share with you a powerpoint that I have prepared for this evening to walk through.

F

uh Those initial points that I'll be making to begin with um the general overview of the project.

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And I know that this has been covered in the staff report. To some degree is we're here talking about.

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The property located at the address on three notch road you can see on the powerpoint slide.

F

Before you in lexington park it the property, is zone mxm, which is mixed, use, medium intensity.

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The proposed commercial uses- and I apologize- I just noticed a typo on my slide. They are allowed.

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Within the mxm is what that should read and they include convenience store, fuel sales and motor.

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Vehicle maintenance service or the three uses, as identified by staff and by our engineers. um That's.

F

What is being proposed here and again, my my client will go into further detail um about the project.

F

And the details of that later, I will note also that this is a property within the lexington park.

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Development district, where, of course, our county has designated the primary growth and commercial.

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Activity to be as one of the development districts- and it is a site that is being redeveloped from.

F

Prior commercial uses, as you'll hear later in the presentation um as to the procedural history of.

F

How we ended up here this evening, there was a question about whether it had gone through tec.

F

Review it had been almost in the march 25th 2020 cycle. We were first before the planning commission.

F

In july of last year- and then there was a second and a third hearing in september and november.

F

uh Respectively- um and it was at the third planning commission hearing that.

F

We we did not receive approval, and, as mentioned by mr knight, there was a motion made there to.

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Approve the application it was seconded, but it did not receive the adequate number of votes.

F

So so I can be clear on the records and since this is also a hearing that will have its own record.

F

uh We we respectfully agree that the the video from the last hearing doesn't really have any.

F

Any relevance and we think that the evidence presented here tonight should be the appropriate evidence. um I I will note in addressing mr brown's questions and I think.

F

Mr knight, mr hunt touched on this, is that, from my experience at the planning commission level,.

F

They do not issue findings of fact, in the same manner that this board does, when this board.

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Decides to matter whether it be an appeal or a matter of first impression, such as a variance.

F

My understanding of why that's the case is that, of course, any decision here tonight could be further.

F

Reviewed by the circuit court and the circuit court does require under a very strong maryland.

F

Case law that this board had findings of pact and conclusions of law supporting any decision you.

F

Make tonight so so the um we do not have a written decision either saying why the planning commission.

F

uh Denied our application, or rather did not vote in favor of it, um but you know we're certainly.

F

At the hearing and any perspective we can share we'll be happy to as we go forward tonight.

F

And, of course, we're here uh tonight before you, with with our.

F

Appeal which was filed in december of last year, um the appeal process, as mentioned, and I won't.

F

Belabor this, the the board of appeals rules govern as mr scott mentioned, and this is a de novo.

F

Appeal, so you can consider all evidence uh before you hear tonight um without any deference given.

F

The to the planning commission's findings or decisions below um the this is a concept.

F

Site plan and there's a little discussion this before so again, I won't belabor it um chapter.

F

60 of the of the comprehensive zoning ordinance um does set forth uh the site plan, review process and.

F

I'll refer to a flow chart in a moment that may assist with kind of where we're at in the process.

F

The planning commission is the the border, the body that is vested with the authority to approve.

F

A concept plan but, as was mentioned earlier in the question about final site plan approval, this is.

F

Only one step in that overall approval process- and it is, as was correctly stated earlier, the planning.

F

Director, who is vested with the authority to approve any final site plan? um So if we are.

F

Successful here tonight, if the board sees fit to approve our application, which we're hopeful.

F

uh You will my client still has several other steps. It needs to go through on working with.

F

The county and state agencies, the tc agencies, to finalize the design to finalize the engineering.

F

And it will be the planning director in consultation with those agencies who will.

F

Finally, approve the site plan. That process is set forth in figure 21.1 point a of the development.

F

Of the flowchart found in the zoning ordinance, um this slide shows a clip from the zoning ordinance.

F

Of that flow chart, and my next slide is kind of a blown up portion that applies to us tonight.

F

This is considered a major site plan, uh since it is commercial activity um being proposed.

F

And where we are here tonight is that my client did submit its concept site plan and you are in.

F

The shoes of the planning commission in this third step in the flow chart, as you can see,.

F

Again, if we're successful, my client will have more engineering and work to do there.

F

Will be additional tc agency approvals that review more detailed plans that are drawn.

F

As appropriate in that step of the process, and then it's the planning director and.

F

This is the chart right out of the ordinance that will make the final site plan approval.

F

Decision and that does include final decision on all adequate public facilities.

F

Including traffic and the other public facilities that are mentioned in our ordinance so again, your.

F

Role tonight is really essentially not to be the board of appeals, but to be the planning.

F

Commission, looking at this as a site plan and determining whether we meet the site plan criteria.

F

um For the for the presentation that uh my clients will be making in a moment to you,.

F

um The concept site plan criteria um is set forth in section 60, as I mentioned, and it speaks about.

F

The planning commission, approving that, before the major site plan, can be processed by the planning.

F

Director, the the six standards were set forth by staff I'll touch on those in a moment as well.

F

um And then you know there are the other approvals that need to be obtained from the.

F

Planning director at a later point in time, which again include the adequate public facilities.

F

uh This is another excerpt of the zoning ordinance just to highlight it for the board. As I know,.

F

Concept, site plans are not regularly before you unless, in the context of an appeal like this.

F

um And this talks about the adequate public facilities determination, because this does.

F

Often come up um as a question as it was as it did earlier, um and our.

F

You know position and I think the language of the ordinance clearly.

F

Supports this is that the board tonight does not need to find that we do meet all the.

F

Criteria of section 70.7 through 70.12, as you can see in the language of the ordinance here.

F

What this board determines as far as adequate public facilities, is that we may meet that.

F

Based on the step in the process that we're in and we believe, most importantly based on the tc.

F

Comments, as mr scott mentioned, that are in the record, I'm already, as mentioned by staff,.

F

And I'll note, my client will highlight this. There are no objections from any of the tec agencies.

F

For the site plan to be approved, the last slide I'll share with you and then I'll turn it over to.

F

To the rest of our team um is the six criteria that were mentioned to you before.

F

um As um our zoning ordinance states, I will say- and I don't believe.

F

There's um a disagreement on this in any way, you can see the six criteria that are there.

F

The third criteria that I'm circling there, as mentioned in the I believe, the.

F

Staff report before the planning commission, that criteria is not applicable currently.

F

Because the county has rescinded its annual growth policy and it is not in place that was rescinded.

F

um Several or many years ago now so that standard respectfully does not need to be metered just.

F

Simply it's not applicable um anymore, and typically that was there for residential.

F

Developments when there were concerns about school seats, um you know probably a decade ago, and that.

F

Has not been in place for some time, so it's really the five other standards that we need to show. You.

F

Tonight that we can meet with this project, we're confident that we can. We believe that this project.

F

Is uh very consistent with the five standards and with that I'll turn it over to our team. So.

F

They can present our actual application. I will mr chairman um request that you know once my.

F

My team is presented and they've answered any questions that you have and we've we've heard.

F

Any public comment: um I would appreciate the um opportunity, as his customary to.

F

Present a summation and and response to any public comments if there are any tonight so.

F

I'll be speaking again at the end, um if the chair will allow me so with that I'll turn it over to.

F

Unless the board has any questions for me, I can turn it over to our engineers, chef.

F

Mike and they'll uh begin their presentation, if, if you could um mr longmore, if you could go ahead and.

A

Have uh let us know who was going to be presenting for you and we can swear them in at one time.

F

Sure it may make sense for you, mr chairman, if we may, I know this has.

F

Been done in the past, we have several presenters that will be.

F

Presenting tonight pretty much all members of our team other than myself.

F

Will probably be presenting either testimony or be available for questions, um so if um jeff.

F

And mike are the two that will begin um tonight, uh but I know betty tustin is also planning.

F

uh To present, um as as we go forward this evening, so mike greerman and jeff, harmon of hecker morgan.

F

Group and betty tustin of the traffic group will be the primary presenters tonight, although bill.

F

Owen and jason donald of my client are also here to answer any questions, as well as chantal moreno.

F

I'm an architect, that's assisting on the project if needed. Okay for those for those three for.

A

For mike jeff and betty, if they would uh stand and raise their hand, raise your right hand, please.

A

Do you declare and affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Okay, thank you, mr chairman. I'd still like a question of mr uh longmore sure go ahead.

G

um In your discussion as it relates to the apf, are you suggesting that this commission has.

G

In in considering that, we're de novo really should eliminate that criteria out of the six.

G

You've eliminated one because of the county, but they do talk about adequate public facilities.

G

And what I'm hearing from you is, uh let it go. Mr hunt will make that decision.

G

Could you please amplify and clarify the grounds for that, certainly that that is not what I meant.

F

To say, if that's how it came across um I'll, be happy to clarify the the language of that.

F

um Provision states that the applicant must prove that they may meet the requirements.

F

Of the of the chapter 70, which has, I believe, it's chapter 70.7 through 70.12- and that includes.

F

All adequate public facilities, including roads and traffic, which are typically the one focused upon.

F

By the planning commission at concept site plan, what I was trying to convey is that this board.

F

Sitting as the planning commission does not make a final decision on whether or not this project.

F

Meets all the criteria of chapter 70., what this board must find is that we may meet the criteria.

F

That this is a concept site plan and not a final site plan. So all the engineering has not been done.

F

All the final approvals have not been obtained because that's not where we're at in the process.

F

As the board may recall or may be aware, and if so I apologize for for um for stating something that.

F

That may you may already be aware, but the county made the policy determination many years ago.

F

um That they would rather, the planning commission received site plans early in.

F

The process at the concept phase, instead of at the final phase, where the planning commission.

F

Could have been given that authority to make the final decision, as I recall, from being involved.

F

In the process, and and in this line of work at that time, um one of the concerns was that a lot.

F

Of times, applicants would get through all their final engineering, which could be rather expensive.

F

um And a lot of work with all the different agencies that were there only to get to the.

F

End and not know that there were concerns that could have been addressed earlier.

F

So they changed the process at that point, so this board does not need to find that we meet.

F

Every criteria of chapter 70 tonight, what it needs to find is that we may need that. We suggest that.

F

The best, so you do need to make a finding of that we're not saying that's a an inapplicable element.

F

Of those we've never made that argument, I've never made that argument before the planning commission.

F

Or this board um in any of the appeals we've had what we're seeing is that we need to show you that.

F

Based on the tec, comments that you have before you and any other appropriate evidence in the record.

F

That we may be able to meet the standards now, if there's one of the standards that we just.

F

Clearly do not meet or that an agency says no matter what you do. You're not going to meet this.

F

Criteria that I think would be appropriate for you to say that we may not meet that, because the.

F

Agencies have said we can't well we're here tonight with and why we were so surprised at.

F

The planning commission um that it wasn't approved quite frankly, is that all of the tec agencies have.

F

Given positive comments um to this site plan, there are none that have expressed any reservations that.

F

Would make it likely that we may not receive final approval based on our county ordinances?.

F

And regulations, so it's just that you don't make the final decision on an adequate public facility.

F

You need to look at the criteria of a concept site plan, the information we're required to.

F

Have in this class and say in your um opinion and in your findings that we may meet that plan.

F

That there is a good likelihood that we may meet that criteria, assuming all the final engineering.

F

Is done and assuming all the agencies agree with any revisions we do when we do that final engineer,.

G

Thank you did that clarify uh my my question before mr edmonds, I think have any.

F

Other questions on that. If I may ask a question: if we go through the process, if you go through.

A

The process- and you get approval here tonight for a concept plan as you go through and develop the.

A

Site plan the final site plan and you find out that one of those items you cannot meet now.

A

Say adequate public facilities and therefore the zoning director land.

A

Use and growth management director turns down your approval. What's your course of action after that.

F

At that point we do not have an approved final site plan, so no uh construction would be able.

F

To commence my client would not be able to go in and obtain its building permits.

F

Now there would, you know, mr scott can disagree with me or mr wisecal. That would be a final.

F

Decision of the planning director, so if we thought he did not apply his criteria correctly,.

F

We would be able to avail ourselves of an appeal to this board and ask you to review what mr hunt.

F

Did in that situation, as opposed to what we're doing here tonight, asking you to step into the.

F

Shoes of the planning commission um and decide that, but to be clear, mr hunt, you know, even if we.

F

Get the approval before you: this does not mean my clients have a green light to go and build their.

F

Building and start business, they have other engineering other approvals. They need to meet.

F

And the primary primary one is having mr hunt give us the final site plan approval after he gets all.

F

The other information he needs from my client and from the tc agencies that will further review it.

F

After this concept site plan, where it really is early, you know somewhat early in the process.

F

That a concept site plan is there that that's kind of inherent in the term. This is really the the.

F

Concept of development, not the final engineering, and that can always be difficult. I think, for.

F

The planning commission and several members have voiced this on the record over the years.

F

um That they know this is kind of their only step to look at it, so they take that very seriously.

F

And and respectfully in this case, we believe that that caused them to go beyond their authority and.

F

Not approve it because we think that that our application does meet all the criteria. That's.

F

There but mr hunk could, even if you approve it, mr hunt could deny us later. If we don't meet all the.

F

Standards of chapter 70 and set forth in those provisions that I showed you earlier. Thank you. I.

L

I have one question on one of the points of this: the sixth and final one is 62 design objectives.

L

Could you go over that a little bit? That's the last one. I just wanted a little clearing on it.

F

Certainly, and and the the other members of our team um will be presenting kind of factually.

F

Specific evidence to support that, but our zoning ordinance does have design standards that apply.

F

For certain types of uses in certain areas of our county or certain certain uh zoning areas of our.

F

County that is found in chapter. I believe it's six. It is in 62, as you mentioned um there, there are.

F

County-Wide design objectives, they're residential ones, there's ones that apply to townhomes.

F

And 62.6 would be the one I believe would be most applicable here, which are design standards.

F

Applicable to commercial mixed-use development. um A lot of that um and you know I'm a lawyer.

F

Not not an engineer or an architect, so I don't want to overstep my role, but a lot of those.

F

Standards are set forth to have a development that is aesthetically pleasing that is consistent with.

F

The rest of the neighborhood or area where the development is occurring, it has provisions about.

F

You know not using all the same material uh breaking up. You know wall so that that.

F

Visually they're, appealing and you'll see in our designs today. We believe that we can.

F

You know we can show you that that I think this project we're proud of can.

F

Can certainly meet that, but those are the type of criteria that are found in chapter.

F

62., so someone in your team will touch on that as we go along.

F

We will that'll be part of our our presentation that that jeff and mike take the lead on. Thank you.

A

Thank you any other questions. Okay, who's. First up.

M

uh Good evening um honey, can everybody hear me: okay,.

M

Yes, yes, okay, great, um my name is mike ryman, I'm a civil engineer with becker.

M

Morgan group group principal engineer um and I'm gonna, let jeff pull up the powerpoint.

N

Hopefully you can um bringing it up now.

N

Okay, does everyone see that.

M

Yes, yes, hopefully everybody can see that all right uh if we go to the next slide, jeff.

N

A little bit of this away hold on.

F

There we go all right, great, um so a little introduction of our team. We have with us.

M

Tonight, uh bill owen and jason donald, uh who are our clients with pentax ventures the developers.

M

Of the project I've already introduced myself, uh jeff harmon, uh who is operating the powerpoint.

M

Currently is our project engineer and engineer of record for the project we also have with us.

M

Betty tustin who's, a professional engineer and traffic engineer with the traffic group who will.

M

Be speaking on traffic related issues and you've already heard from mr longmore, who is representing.

O

The project our agenda for tonight, uh introduction, which we just did uh we're gonna, do some history.

M

Of the site, um we're gonna do some zoning and site plan review, uh which jeff will handle we're.

M

Going to talk about the traffic study traffic improvements, betty will talk about that and.

M

Then I'll have a summary, uh some opportunities for questions uh at the end, excellent, uh so.

M

What you're seeing here and I apologize- I am getting a little bit of echo feedback so.

M

Bear bear with me, but um you know what you can see here is our site outlined in green uh located at.

M

The corner of three knots, road, 235 and millstone landing road- um you can see that the site was.

M

A golden corral um and has access to 235, currently a write in right out and a full access point.

M

uh On millstone landing road, you can see the associated building parking, uh etc. Next slide.

M

um The site actually has evolved a little bit over the years. This is a aerial photograph from 2007.

M

When it used to be a mcdonald's, you can see the mcdonald's facility there. You can.

M

See the two access points which are in the same location as the golden corral.

M

um You can also see that there has been fuel fuel at this intersection in the.

M

Past there was an exxon station located on the corner there and a small bank facility.

M

That you can see at that location as well. One thing I want to point out on the mcdonald's plan.

M

And we'll talk a little bit about this when we get into our site plan, you can see for the access.

M

Off of millstone landing road, they have some parking spaces very, very close to the entrance.

M

uh Where cars could actually, as they were, backing out of those spaces, would actually block.

M

The access um our plan uh remedies that scenario I just wanted to to bring that to everyone's.

M

Attention uh as we get into our site plan, but this is 2007, you can see the mcdonald's and the exxon.

M

Next slide um in 2011, the exxon was uh replaced with the pnc bank uh on the corner.

M

The mixed up you can see, the mcdonald's is, is still there uh in existence. Nice class.

M

And then in 2013 uh you can see a little bit better picture of the bank at the the.

M

New bank, you can see where the new paving is that's there and you can see the golden corral.

M

That's under construction, one of the questions earlier about the traffic comment from sha and.

M

Betty can expand on this. In more detail was in some of the early correspondence with sha.

M

They looked at the aerial photograph here and they thought the golden crowd was demolished.

M

And that created some confusion from them as it related to what kind of existing traffic was was.

M

From that facility, we clarified that with them as we work through the process and so.

M

We'll be able to expand on that as we talk about traffic, but that's where I believe that comment.

M

Is coming from and and the and that's an early letter uh from sha that has since been resolved.

M

And- and we can talk more about that- uh but if you can go to the next slide- was that the one that had.

M

Has not been demolished? No, no! No! No! They. The state made a comment that appeared to have been.

G

Demolished they're referencing that yeah yeah. I think we, when we met with them after to talk about.

M

That that that's, what we got from them was that they that's what they they didn't realize. That.

M

It was still there, they thought it was demolished and they have some pro some criteria as it relates.

M

To how to count existing traffic from demolished facilities, um the one thing I want to point out.

M

On this, is you can see that the golden corral is under construction, but the two entrances.

M

uh Are still being utilized, so the existing entrances for the mcdonald's carried through the.

M

Golden corral in the same location, I just wanted to point that out: uh go ahead. Jeff next line.

M

um And then this is 2018, so this is one of the most current aerials. You can see.

M

Again, the golden crowd is now constructed, the pnc bank is still in place um and actually golden.

M

Corral maintained, I I pointed out the parking from mcdonald's uh which was coming off a millstone.

M

Landing road, uh it's a little tough to see in this aerial photograph, but those parking spaces.

M

Were still there as part of the golden crown, if you were to go out there today, you'd see those.

M

um And our plan does eliminate that and we'll go through that when we get into the plan. But.

M

uh This is the the completed golden corral, as of 2018. next slide, all right.

M

With that, I want to turn it over to jeff harmon who's. Our project engineer he's.

M

Going to talk about the zoning and the site plan review and we'll go from there.

N

All right good evening, everyone, so this is our site overlaid onto the comprehensive.

N

Zoning map for the county there it's a site of 3.24 acres in total, it is currently zoned mxm.

N

Medium intensity, mixed use, uh we are located within the lexington park, development district.

N

So by the county's comprehensive plan, this is the desired location for development is within the.

N

Development district: um the project is consistent with the comprehensive plan uh we're having.

N

Retail sales, uh it's a considered, a general use. Low intensity is designated in the plan.

N

The tax parcel is map 43 grid, one parcel 332. We do not have any wetlands on site. The prior use.

N

Is a restaurant, the site is currently vacant, it is no longer under operation, and our proposed use is.

N

A convenience store, use, type 48, it's a permitted, low intensity use, also fuel sales use type 60.

N

It's a permitted, low intensity use and the car wash, which is considered a model motor vehicle.

N

Maintenance service, a minor use, I use type 62 and it's also a permitted low-intensity use.

N

The site is served by sewer by metcom. We are designated s1, which is ready to serve the site.

N

Currently has a sewer on it, it has a pump station and a force main, which will be reused for this.

N

Project um and then the water is also by metcom and it is designated w1, and that means it is ready.

N

For service today, there is uh planned service or actually existing service on site next slide.

N

Shows the county's land use map this just sort of shows how our site fits in with the surrounding.

N

Community you'll see that there's a significant amount of other mxm mixed use, medium intensity.

N

Uses around us so we fit in with the neighborhood and are consistent with the surrounding land uses.

N

And so to go through some of the zoning here to let you know what we needed to comply with.

N

For landscaping or the zoning ordinance section 62.8, we are not within a scenic corridor so that.

N

Means that we do not have to have landscape buffers along the streets, protection 63.2.

N

We are required to provide shade trees, every 40 feet across the street frontages and you'll.

N

See on our landscaping plans coming up in our presentation that we have complied with that.

N

uh Per section 63.3, the site is adjoined on all sides by land zone to mxm.

N

Therefore, we don't have any required buffer yards to adjacent uses, so those are not on.

N

The plans parking lot, landscaping is required and we have provided it per section. 62.3.6.

N

The lot must have at least a minimum of 20 percent landscape space, uh and we have uh it says 46 here.

N

I've missed correcting that one spot. We are at 44 actually um and we are well in excess of the.

N

Required amount of landscape space on the site, the setbacks are 50 feet in the front 10 on the side.

N

20 in the rear- and we exceed all of those setbacks significantly the maximum building height.

N

Cannot exceed 100 feet, we're about only 21 feet, so we are well below the maximum building height.

N

uh The convenience store is the tallest structure on the site. That's a little bit taller than fuel.

N

Canopy with some of the parapets and things and you'll see that architecture a little.

N

Bit later on in the presentation, the building is 5 300 square feet. It is a convenience store.

N

And the fuel canopy is, uh are the convenience. um The fuel canopy is four thousand two hundred and.

N

Eighty four squeak square feet under the canopy and we have 911 square feet in the car wash.

N

um The floor area ratio we're allowed to have 0.6. We are a very low floor area ratio at 0.11.

N

Which just means that we're not trying to put too much building on the site the site is plenty.

N

Large enough for us to have all the required open space that we need and parking and circulation.

N

And so the building is appropriately sized for the site and we're well below our maximum allowable.

N

For parking you'll see the calculations there, I won't go through all the numbers, but the.

N

Summary is: is that we're required to have 44 spaces and we have provided 44 spaces and then.

N

We're also required to have a loading berth and we have provided one of those per the code.

N

So here's our type plan I'll just kind of go over some of the elements of the plan here.

N

And uh hopefully everyone can see my mouse moving around on the screen, as mike mentioned prior.

N

This is our entrance to millstone landing road. This is the entrance location that has.

N

Historically, been there, it's the same entrance that was there for mcdonald's. It's the same.

N

Entrance it's there for golden crowl. It is the same entrance that we're using for the 7-eleven.

N

As mike mentioned before, we had parking immediately at the entrance in this space.

N

Along the southern side of this drywall, which has been eliminated also on the northern side of this.

N

Drive aisle was all parking and that has been eliminated as well. All that has been turned into.

N

Green open space, and so now cars are able to enter and exit here without any kind of conflict from.

N

Parking maneuvers or anything it vastly improves the safety and the operation of that intersection.

N

As you come in from millstone landing here, you'll see that the drive aisle wraps around. We have our.

N

Loading berth uh for deliveries, we have our trash enclosure. uh This is the general location on sort.

N

Of the westerly side is where the seven are the uh golden corral building was the 711 building is.

N

Going within that footprint, although it is a much smaller footprint, the golden corral was over 11.

N

000 square feet and our building is 5 300, so it is a much smaller uh use than what was there before.

N

Also, we have parking on the southern side and on the eastern side in front of the store, our.

N

Fuel canopy is in front of the store. We have underground fuel storage, tanks to the north.

N

Of the canopy- and we have some additional parking over here- adjacent to the car wash.

N

And there are a couple of vacuum spaces on either side of this island here, for people to.

N

Vacuum and we have a entrance into the car wash and the exit is on the far side. There is a bypass.

N

Lane, if anyone were to get in to the car wash area and did not want to go through, they would.

N

Be able to exit without having to reverse out the parking on the southern side of the building has.

N

Been moved back further from the road than where the original parking was and what that provides.

N

For is an enlarged entrance here to improve safety coming in the existing entrance is rather narrow.

N

And can be somewhat difficult for cars coming in and out. We provided a traffic separator island.

N

That's been improved and a widened entrance so that we can improve separation between the.

N

Vehicles entering and exiting and further support that right in right out maneuver to direct people.

N

To go the direction they're supposed to so all in all traffic circulation has been improved on site.

N

You'll see many storm water features here. These sort of dashed oblong shapes are all the existing.

N

Stormwater features that were designed for the site we are retaining all of those and.

N

I'll speak just a little bit here in a minute on why we kept those and why that's a benefit.

N

um Here's our here is our benefit. um What we're able to do is all of the areas that you see, shaded.

N

In our rendering that's green are areas that are new open space. All these spaces used to be a.

N

Parking lot pavement building coverage, so this site vastly increases the amount of open space.

N

We have actually added almost a half an acre of new pervious landscaped area on the site. We were.

N

Required to have 20 open space, we achieved 43.7, so 119 percent, more open space than is required.

N

You'll see along our rendering here, where we've added all of our street frontage trees that were.

N

Required by the landscaping code, we have trees along this frontage as well. Adding interior.

N

Landscaping plantings in this plan, then the rendering shows the major trees, but we also have.

N

Other foundation, plantings and beds, and things like that as well, that don't show up well on.

N

This scale scale of a rendering and one other thing. I know that.

N

Many municipalities like uh and in the county also I've heard them ask for this before too.

N

Is across access to uh the adjoining property to the north as well, so we have provided that.

N

And been working with that neighbor there as well jeff. Can you talk about jeff? It's mike.

M

Can you talk about the stormwater facilities? Yes, those stormwater facilities were designed.

M

For the previous amount of impervious under the current rules, can you talk a little bit.

M

About that correct, so we have bioretention. All of those are landscaped by our retention.

N

Meeting the most recent maryland department of the environment, regulations for storm water.

N

Management to increase water quality, we elected not to remove any of them. So, as mike mentioned.

N

We have far exceeded the capacity that will be required for the amount of impervious coverage.

N

On our site, so what that does is it allows us to clean the water better than it was before you'll.

N

Notice that there's a large culvert existing that goes under the site, you can see the head wall on.

N

The north and the head wall on the south there and there's a stream north of us by maintaining all of.

N

Those oversized environmental friendly facilities, we are also able to further reduce the amount of.

N

Runoff from the site so that reduces the amount of water released into the streams and helps.

N

The downstream and improves the flow through culverts, and so it's a overall benefit to the.

N

Community, through releasing less water from the site and cleaning it more than we're required to.

N

So, um let's see, I think, that's all I was gonna talk to on this slide uh so moving on here.

N

um One of the concerns um that you know we need to look at on any site is uh site, distance and.

N

So, on the entrance on millstone landing road, we wanted to ensure that it was safe for exiting.

N

Vehicles we are adding additional trees, so we have kept those trees back from the property.

N

Line you'll see the area in yellow is our sight distance triangle, and that area is clear of any.

N

Kind of blockages there are no signs, there are no tall landscaping, there are no buildings, there are.

N

No fences and there is clear sight, distance all the way to the intersection of 235 and.

N

Millstone landing road, so uh people have more than adequate sight, distance and visibility.

N

To see traffic uh to make the safe maneuver coming out of that entrance.

N

The number there 390 feet is what's required by ashtow, which is the american association of.

N

State highway transportation officials, that is, we call it the green book, which is sort of the bible.

N

For highway design- and that is the national standard and mdot sha has adopted that as.

N

Well and that's what we're required to meet and uh we have met that. Excuse me jeff and I'll turn. It.

A

Over to betty at this time, excuse me jeff. If I can have a question, this is dan and asking um for the.

A

Sight distance plan you have you, show it going through a green area on the adjacent property.

A

Is that within the right-of-way or do you have an agreement to keep that um cleared? That is.

N

All within the right-of-way um you'll see on our site plan. Our property line is in blue.

N

That property line extends uh it doesn't exactly follow parallel with our yellow line, because it.

N

Curves around the corner, more, uh the property line is pretty much uh right behind the curb line there.

N

Of the parking lot on the neighbors, so that's sha right away. Okay, thank you. You're welcome.

A

Any other questions all right good evening. Everyone um I'll take everything from here. Thank.

E

You jeff for for running that slide up in order to determine or project how many trips need trips.

E

A particular development will generate. We use information that comes from the.

E

Institute of transportation, engineers, chip generation manual and the last.

E

Edition of that trip generation manual, they added a new category called the super convenience.

E

Car wash and that's what we know as the wawas, the royal farms that have become popular.

E

Particularly in the mid-atlantic region, and so our proposed 7-eleven does fall into that category.

E

A super convenience car wash usually has some food items that are that can be purchased and taken out.

E

That are ready to go and that's it's a definitely generates more cut trips than the previous.

E

Trip generation rates that we used just for what we called a convenience car wash.

E

So when we um looked at the the trips that we project to be generated by the 7-eleven, we are.

E

We are projecting a very conservative, a very high number of rates for this category of.

E

Convenience markets next slide betty betty, it's mike. So can you talk a little bit about? I guess.

M

They're super convenience with car wash and then there's super convenience with.

M

The loreto taco roof and the chicken- and that is because they're in this in this 7-eleven.

M

Similar to how wawa sells subs and sandwiches and royal farm cells, chicken and all those types.

M

Of foods, this 711 has a interior restaurant component, known as the rado taco and the roost.

M

And one of the questions that came up was well what, if you looked at this as either.

M

Super convenience with a car wash meaning all 5300 square feet. How much traffic does that generate.

M

And what, if you look at it as a super convenience, with a car wash at 3, 200 square feet and the.

M

Remaining square footage which is associated with the interior restaurant, so we did look at that.

M

And betty you can confirm that actually, the super convenience with car wash at 5300 shows a higher.

M

Trip generation than breaking it out, and that is what we used moving forward, meaning that we.

M

Utilized a more conservative uh computation for generating traffic for the application is that.

M

Right betty, that's correct, mike um the super convenience and car wash based on the larger.

E

5 000 300 square feet does generate more traffic than if we were to break it down into two uses.

E

And separate the convenience market from the restaurant use so again we are using the most.

E

Conservative, the higher trip generation rates that are provided.

G

All right, thank you. So do you in excuse, this is john brown. So did you break it out in your in your.

G

Traffic study, what happened for each one or did you just choose one.

E

We chose the worst case. We typically use that. What is the worst case scenario.

E

We look at the peak hour, which is the worst case worst hour of the day. It's kind of like building.

E

In a safety factor, if we feel like we could accommodate the worst thing that could happen, then.

E

The rest of the day would be satisfactory. Okay and I it's the first time. It appears because.

G

I'm in all the discussions I didn't see where restaurants were mentioned.

G

Now you've got laredo and and the other roost chicken yeah the roost chicken.

G

What type of restaurant or accommodations or fast food? What is that? Is it a go to the counter and.

G

It's already prepared, or is it and people carry it out or is it a sit down? How does it work.

M

So it would be similar, it would be similar to if you were to go into some of the royal.

M

Farms they've got a couple of tables off to the side. You go to the counter. You order. The food.

M

You can take it out with you or you can sit down and eat it. So it's like a restaurant, so.

G

Will you have a carryout service, a drive through to or you have to go in yeah.

L

How many actual tables stools, or whatever will they be uh bill? I may have to defer to.

M

You on that, I don't have that plan right in front of me. I know I can pull it up.

M

M

We actually have the architect pawn that might be able to answer that exact question. Well, whenever.

L

You get to that part of it. Okay, we make. Is it okay? If we jump back on that yeah, that's fine.

L

Okay, um but just to to reiterate, we did look at it in two different ways. We looked at it as a super.

E

Convenience with a car wash like a royal farms, as mike said, which has the counter service or.

E

A wawa which you know has the counter service as well, very similar setup. It's just this is the.

E

Radio taco every chicken, which is something for 7-eleven versus royal hearts, chicken.

E

And so we did look at it, combining it all in one super convenience of car wash with these.

E

Food food sources and then we divided it out as well, and it turns out that the super convenience.

E

Of car wash generates more trips than it would be if we separated them out and called one. The.

E

Restaurant and won a convenience store, so we are looking at the worst case.

E

Scenario we're protecting the worst amount of traffic that we anticipate there.

E

All right all right, moving on.

E

After you use that on it.

E

So again, these are: these are trips that are um projected by the trip manual that we use.

E

Again, we look at the at morning and evening peak hours, because if we can accommodate the.

E

Traffic volumes during the worst part of the day, then the rest of the day will be satisfactory.

E

And we, um the data that we use to do our analysis, is based on on.

E

Data from 2019, which was used in the lexington ford traffic impact study. So that was when the.

E

Golden corral was operating and the restaurant was operating, so we were, we subtracted those.

E

Trips from that 2019 data, um so that we don't double count our trips and the restaurant trips.

E

So what the bottom line is again looking at the evening peak hour, because we found.

E

That that is the worst peak hour of the day uh we will add 49 more trips to.

E

um Our two to the intersection, including the right and right out on on 235, which boils down.

E

To about a little bit more than a one percent increase in traffic volumes at this intersection.

D

Mr richardson has a question: okay, justin, are you familiar with saint mary's county.

E

I'm sorry I have to turn up my volume here. Are you familiar with saint mary's county? Excuse me.

B

We're closer to your mind, I'm sure. I'm sorry.

B

There we go. I'm sorry, are you familiar with saint mary's county? Yes, okay, it's my understanding that.

B

The economy is pretty much based on the base the navy base and the supporting contractors.

B

I go to the base quite often, and I don't know who else has access to the base, but.

B

The base is a ghost town: you go by the muffled building and there's four or five cars there.

B

uh If you go to expiration park and the place across the road there's empty parking spots, all.

B

Over and there's vacancies in the building most of those contractors have got leases.

B

That are three and four years long, so we cannot estimate when they'll be renewed or if they'll.

B

Be removed, many of the people who worked on the base haven't been to the base in a year.

B

Some of them go in a couple times a week and, of course, as a few to go in, but the traffic.

B

Is greatly reduced, they're hiring people to work remotely from other parts of the country.

B

That will never ever come to saint mary's county, some of the people that.

B

Are working remotely have been told that they'll be working remotely indefinitely.

B

And the basis concerning which buildings to close up indefinitely, so I don't put a lot of.

B

Credibility into the traffic study, because I think it's the traffic has grown down considerably.

B

And that includes the peak times because now, if the people that do go to work, don't have.

B

To be there at seven o'clock or 7 30., I think you'll find that the traffic is greatly reduced.

P

I don't disagree with you. uh In fact, in our traffic engineering profession, we are all kind.

E

Of in a muddle, because we will never, I don't in my opinion, we will never return to the traditional.

E

Morning and evening, people that we once had uh when all the coven um hitting that settles out.

E

Though people will make definite changes in their work patterns and that will make a big difference.

E

In our profession, but for this particular study that we couldn't collect new data because number.

E

One, as you said, it was reduced number two. We don't know what level it's going to go back to um so.

E

We are using 2019 data, which was before coven when the base was more operating as it normally.

E

Did and- um and so it could very well be- I had I really can't predict the future whether traffic.

E

Volumes will go back to the way they were or, as you suggest, perhaps they never will, but we are.

E

Looking at what we would have looked at it in 2019 before we knew anything about a current device.

B

Thank you. I think my crystal ball is a little clearer than the one in.

B

19. because the traffic is greatly reduced. Thank you. uh This is john brown. I follow one question.

G

Is um so what you're saying is the traffic study? How many times has that been updated while you've.

G

Been in this process for the last year, any or some one, two three for the for the 7-eleven, the.

G

Traffic study for this yeah for your traffic for the in support of the 7-eleven initiative.

E

um Back in last summer, we had a a smaller building and then that was increased and.

E

So the the um we modified our traffic study, our traffic study that you have before you.

E

Is based on the 5300 square foot building with a car wash, but I, if you look back at.

E

Some reports from july that those were had a smaller building instead of traffic.

G

Okay, so what to do so? The date of that report is the date of the last traffic study. Correct. Yes,.

M

uh But betty, I think it's important to point out that the existing traffic that was utilized.

M

As the base for the study was from the 2019 2018, which was the the data that we had pre-covered.

M

Which was higher traffic, as has been said, so all that was updated was the square footage of the.

M

Building uh we don't go out and collect new data, we did not go out and collect data when.

M

Traffic was depressed, it was collected when it was I'll call it pre-covered or.

M

Normal my follow-on question is it's along those lines and what mr richardson just mentioned.

G

Nobody have you ever gone as far as preparing this to the base and ask for what their plans were.

G

Because, obviously they are contracting and people that all the employees are being told.

G

You know what kind of spaces they'll have or not and they're sort of hot bunking, hot desking.

G

uh Their spaces and they're contracting, so I didn't know if anybody had gone to the base to see.

G

How they saw their shall we say, commuter traffic or the amount of people or spaces that would be.

G

Available on a given day: well, certainly, we could go and ask those questions and make those surveys.

E

But then we'd have to make a lot of assumptions as to well you're making assumptions now you're.

G

You're equating the uh the ford dealership to to uh the millstone site. So what's the difference in.

G

One crystal ball is the same as the other. Isn't it? No? No excuse me. Maybe uh I wasn't clear.

E

We based our traffic study on on count, turning movement counts that were conducted.

E

In 2019, um those are hard counts. Those are accounts that were conducted before.

E

Before coveted, when the base was fully operational, so analysis that we do are going to be based on.

E

Volumes that existed two years ago in 2019 with before covent.

F

Mr chairman, I have a question sure. Can you hear me, mr bradley and.

A

You are, this, is guy bradley? um Have you haven't been sworn in um he's? The alternate is the other.

K

I'm sorry, I'm sorry excuse me guys each one, the office, their alternate, are alternate.

A

Oh, oh, oh, mr chair, uh the alternate is um sitting as an observer, uh so it's not a part of the.

H

Of the uh of the uh the board for this purpose, unless we needed the alternate.

H

Tonight and we did not okay, so you will not be able to ask questions this time. Sorry, guy.

F

All right, I got a quote about that after the meeting, because that's not the way I read the rules copy.

E

Okay, so I just want to review.

E

We did our traffic impact study, we based it on traffic volumes that were collected in 2019.

E

Because we did our study in 2020 and that was during a pandemic- that's ongoing! Now.

E

We could not collect traffic volumes, then because they would not be reflective of what.

E

Was when the base was fully operational and what would be depending on what the base chooses to do?.

E

In the future, so the volumes that we have are most likely higher than what you see out there today.

E

And so it's a very conservative analysis very worst case analysis. Another question I have is.

G

There's a you allude to no more than 50 trips from the prior establishment. Golden corral did.

G

You get the data for that traffic study, all right, jeff! You want to go back to the previous slide.

E

And and what the uh the information you see on the slide in front of you is based on a very complex.

E

Equation: that's been developed from studies of um similar facilities, convenience markets.

E

uh With gas pumps from all over the united states, primarily in the mid mid atlantic regions, because.

E

That's where we have the wawas memorial farms defeats. um So this that data is compiled and we.

E

Project the number of trips that will be generated by a convenience market of this size with a.

E

Car wash based on those complex formulas that have been developed and statistically verified.

E

um And so we cut. What we find is that, with a with the gas station or the convenience market,.

E

The majority of the trips are what we call pass fight trips, in other words, somebody's already on.

E

Maryland 235 and they need gas, so they just go into the 7-11 get gas and then they go on their.

E

Way: um they're not somewhere else in saint mary's county and said: oh, I need gas. So I'm going to.

E

Travel 10 miles I'll get gas with 7-eleven when I could get at another gas station on my way. So.

E

The bottom line is, according to our trip generation projections. Is that compared.

E

To the restaurant that was previously in use there we're only going to add 49 more trips.

E

During the evening peak hour to maryland 235 because most of the trips that go to.

E

The 7-eleven are already on maryland, 235 they're going to the base and they stop in the morning.

E

For gas, or they come back and they stop, you know for coffee or for chicken sandwich or something.

G

I'm sorry just to add to that. I I wouldn't take, don't take our word for it. We have to submit this.

M

To uh department of public works for their review and jeff. If you go to the next slide,.

M

They then respond to that, and this is their response, and so they they have to sign off on.

M

Our generation- and you can see this is the response from their letter that the project.

M

Generates less than 50 peak hour trips, therefore, no traffic impact study would be required based.

M

On the threshold of peak hour trips, that being said, as we went through, the planning commission.

M

Process there was a request that we do a study. uh We didn't think one was required. We did that.

M

For we did that anyway, um so we've done the study anyway, so the 50 peak hour trips has to do with.

M

Whether or not you exceed the threshold to do a study, um even though we believe we were under that.

M

Threshold and it was not required by your code- we did one anyway, so it's a it's almost a little bit.

M

Moot in that threshold of 50, given the fact we did a study and we have submitted it for review, please.

G

Please clarify, I thought the 50 was on top of what was the previous occupant I.e golden corral.

G

And therefore my question is: if you're, comparing two organizations or buildings or facilities.

G

One should be asking then, if you're, comparing you've got your own data.

G

But where did what was the source of your data for the golden corral?.

M

Yeah, you can answer that and I apologize I'm having a really hard time hearing you guys. So if.

M

You're talking and I'm talking, I don't I'm not doing it on purpose. It's just a little hard to.

M

Hear uh jeff, I guess, go back to the previous slide again, the the number of trips that we.

E

Project for the voted crowd for a turnover restaurant are again based on.

E

Hundreds and hundreds of of data sources that are are generated and analyzed and put forth by.

E

The institute of transportation engineers, they are subject to strict statistical analyses.

E

Certainly, there is going to be a little bit of variation from a golden crown here to a.

E

Golden corral in another area, but this is what the industry standard is, and this is what we.

E

Used- and this is what's become accepted in our profession, so what you're you used was.

G

What the golden corral told you is that what you're telling me.

E

That we use, we use um complicated formulas and rates that are developed from studies nationwide.

E

On what a typical restaurant would generate on an average weekday peak hour, that's a simple.

G

Question what was the source of your data? That's a golden corral. That should be an easy answer.

E

Yes, the source of the data is from the institute of transportation engineers, so it's from a book.

E

It's from a book based on on dozens of studies, nationwide of what a restaurant would generate.

G

Thank you thank you and betty. If I can jump in for a minute just to clarify, um is that analysis.

F

That you've done standard within uh your field, based on your experience, absolutely.

E

It's the standard uh for the traffic engineering field yeah, and that standard applies here in saint.

F

Mary's county, as these numbers were reviewed by the department of public works and transportation.

F

Correct absolutely so! This is what our regulations and rules tell you to do right. You didn't make it.

F

Up: that's what what the rules require you to do when you apply for a site like this.

E

Exactly and it applies to any kind of just about any engineering analysis we use.

E

um Information from previous experiences to to protect future conditions that we design for.

F

I think thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt mr lawnmower. This is richardson. uh I think st mary's.

B

County is unique and not like other places. I'm told that 80 percent of the revenue for the county.

B

Just derived from the base and the facilities that support the base.

B

That makes saint mary's county totally unique compared to other places.

B

And I'm here to tell you that the traffic is is greatly reduced.

F

Right now- and I don't I don't disagree with you, mr richardson, I think um what miss tustin is trying.

F

To say is that um the study that was done, the data that was collected there were there were traffic.

F

Counts done and data was used in this analysis of 235 when the base was fully operational.

F

So there were a lot of cars on the road when they counted the background traffic for route 235 and.

F

Doing this study, I agree with you wholeheartedly: there's not that many cars on the road now which.

F

Means that that there is less concern traffic wise than there was when those counts were done.

F

My client has done what the county and the state has asked everybody to do is use the.

F

Normal numbers, you know in the off chance that we do go back to normal. We want to make sure.

F

These are safe projects. We want you to pretend, like there's still all that traffic on the road.

F

And you have to meet all the traffic standards as if there's still a ton of traffic on down 2.

F

35 at night, like it used to a year ago, um so right now, there's not that traffic. So we think there's.

F

Even less of an impact or concern or a safety issue than there would have been, or probably.

F

Never get back there like you said, but even if it does, we meet all the traffic standards of.

F

The state and the county has that that's kind of I, I think what what we're trying to combat.

B

You and I are not arguing. I think we both agree that traffic is much much less.

B

And what you use is what you had, but it's it's greatly reduced and what the new normal is going.

B

To be all I know is that many people I've been told they're going to work at home indefinitely.

B

Yes, so thank you very much, absolutely yeah. Thank you. Absolutely yeah.

E

All right, thank you, um jeff! Shall we move on? Yes, go ahead. Okay, we discussed this slide and so.

E

When we were in our just in our discussions with the state highway administration, they.

E

Asked us to look at the queuing on um 235 as a it's going southbound and if.

E

You want to look at 235 as north or south and to millstone landing and based on our analysis.

E

We have agreed to lengthen that left turn lane 100 feet. That's 50 feet for each lane.

E

So that that's a safety and operational improvement that we have agreed to make.

E

State highway is fully on board with that and very thankful that we have agreed to do so.

E

And this is an illustration of that. Lengthening of that turbine.

G

How many additional cars will that 50 feet provide.

E

um It's 50 feet. Two lanes. Typically, we say a car on average is 25 foot, so that is uh four cars.

E

And that's that's, of course, what you need during the cycle.

G

It would just be four cars additional okay.

G

Yes and state highway is on board with that analysis. Now, will that mean that that traffic.

G

Light is going to have to be extended to get those additional four through.

E

The traffic signal is, um is actuated based on demand, so if, if for a particular.

E

Cycle of that traffic signal needs that extra couple seconds. Yes, it would be.

G

But, but is that integrated with the fact that you would build that and that state.

G

Would automatically reset it or you're telling me there's a delay in the process.

E

No there's no delay in the process. The signal timing right now is actuated by the.

E

Vehicles that come up to the intersection are read by the detector. So if more vehicles come up and.

E

Are read by the detector? Then then it provides for more grain. Generally speaking so you're.

G

Telling me there's sensors along that additional 50 feet. That would tell you that cars are there.

E

The detection right now is used is typically used by cameras that are on the poles.

E

Not in the roadway.

E

All right shall we move on to the next slide. Any other questions on that.

E

Also, in order to minimize the impact that we have with the additional vehicles that we are.

E

Going to be putting through that intersection, we have preferred to do a fee in lieu amount to.

E

um To the county, which can be used for the fdr project and I believe.

E

The next slide demonstrates exactly how much that will be. Yes, we're increasing.

E

The clv by 2.6, the clb, is called the critical lane volume. It's a traffic engineering term and that.

E

2.6 will be applied to the 7.9 million project, um so we will be making a cash contribution to.

E

The county of 205 400 uh for that fdr project and just to add to this the this is actually.

M

This is what the uh lexington ford project also did uh for this very same intersection.

M

uh They had also a a fee in lieu which is one of the mitigation options available in the code under.

M

The adequate public facilities section um and if you go back, you can see the from the letter.

M

uh That we got that this is go back jeff one um to the quote.

M

So this is from the response from the department of public works, which basically says uh that.

M

This is that we've determined the fee in lieu and that this is what has been used on other projects.

M

Along 235 and three notch quarter most recently, the lexington ford.

M

Project for this very same intersection, we have followed that same precedent and process here.

A

um I have a question danic nelson and I think it's probably to you harry where's. The money go.

D

Well, I think that would be more appropriately answered by donnie mills of the department.

D

Of public works and transportation because it would be um going uh if I understood what they.

D

Said it um for the fdr boulevard project, there's an account if it was tied to the.

D

Building permit, which it has been in the past or more typically with the site plan, approval.

D

Major site plan approval, not concept site plan approval, um we put it in an account number. That's.

D

Dedicated fdr mitigation, but again mr mills can more accurately then.

D

Answer how it's spent mr mills donnie? Would you like to swear in and then try to answer that.

A

You would raise your right hand.

C

There he is he's on. Thank you. Do you declare and affirm, under the penalty of perjury, that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Thank you very much. Thank you. So there is an account where this money goes into.

Q

um So I think harry is correct. In saying that I mean um I don't um I'm going to.

Q

Say that I don't follow the actual account part, but what we have is a capital project.

Q

That's been funded by the commissioners and and one of the condition is the project.

Q

For accepting funds to a to a county project, it has to be 75 um funded by the commissioners.

Q

Or funded by for the project, and that this fdr boulevard is fully funded.

Q

And the um as far as as far as like, where the money would go, I believe.

Q

That it would go straight to the construction um construction account line item in uh under fdr.

A

Okay, thank you. I have a question um wayne it. The amount is 200 000, more or less.

L

Does that include the actual cost of doing the work on the state highway.

L

The the the actual queuing, the you know, there's going to be more asphalt and whatnot right. Well, as.

D

I understood it. This money is in addition to the state highway improvement, so this is a fee in lieu.

D

That was based on a percentage of the. If I understood correctly, the overall cost of the.

D

Super convenience store with car wash. That is correct,.

D

And so so, this is a completely separate. This is in addition to the required state, highway improvement.

D

And mr mills was saying it is right here in the zoning order, in 70.7.2 b, the county or state is.

D

Program for construction in a capital, improvement program or similar plan, at least 75 percent funded.

D

That's that's the section of the zoning ordinance he was referring to.

L

I think I'd probably rather hear it from the applicant.

L

Very good, sir, because once once they are recorded saying that I'm, I feel better.

D

Excuse me yeah, my mike or jeff can. Can you clarify on the record that there's the in lieu and then.

F

That is in addition to the to the traffic improvements, the dad the queuing link. Yes,.

N

We have a separate cost estimate that we've submitted to sha for review and approval for.

N

Bonding purposes so the amount of the construction of the uh improvements to the turn lane on 235 are.

N

Separate and is not included in the 205 400 number. Okay, thank you, but did I hear mr mills say that.

G

That it was already fully funded so that that's why the money would basically go to a general pw.

G

Fund, not a general fund, it would go to the fdr um mitigation fund, which means.

D

That you said it was already funded well, so then why do I need additional money? Because.

D

The commissioners could then reallocate what they've already put in that fund.

D

Two different: oh, it's a dice or a pillow game. Okay, squeeze here, squeeze there; okay.

B

So if the traffic has gone down, as I suggested, why is mitigation required.

D

I believe the um mr mills might I mean if I understood it was his memo that said that.

D

The additional mitigation was required that somehow the level of service was not satisfied.

D

Someone else correct, so if the level of service was an f.

G

Correct at millstone and that's why they were mitigating.

G

Correct, basically for 285 000 you're buying off.

G

The county to put in this store, rather than saying we can't support it, is that what I'm hearing.

F

No that isn't correct mr edmonds, this is this: is chris longmore, the the ordinance has a.

F

Specific revision, when you are developing within a development district that you are allowed to offer.

F

Mitigation and fees in lieu to allow development to continue to occur in the development district.

F

Otherwise, in a park would be shut down in most areas. um That is why the ordinance kind of has.

F

That safety valve I'm included in it it's under section 70.7 2d, is the provision I believe.

F

So our our county, commissioners, in adopting the zoning ordinance, have made that policy decision.

F

That, when you have a project like this, that is in the area where they want development.

F

They don't want that to shut down all possible development anywhere to the left or right of this.

F

Intersection, so they allow developers at their costs or require developers of their costs rather.

F

To both offer traffic improvements, where appropriate, or to pay fees in lieu to contribute.

F

To the construction of other improvements that will help traffic in the area, I believe mr mills.

F

Can clarify this fdr was the project in this case, because certainly the hope and design of.

F

That is to pull some traffic off of route 235, so it made sense to contribute to that.

F

And certainly that project is fully funded and I by no means I'm a county budget expert. But I.

F

Know that sometimes even fully funded projects end up being more expensive than what they're.

F

Funding at so this can certainly assist with any cost uh overrides that that come in as well, yeah.

G

You have several government employees here. We understand mr lumber said: litigation is required.

F

Yes, for for this intersection, it is and mr richardson, your point is.

F

You know if we did studies today, based on the current traffic mitigation, may not be required.

F

We don't know that, but my client is willing again to to act as if traffic will be fully.

F

Restored to route 235 and do the mitigation that would be required based on those 2019 numbers.

F

We believe is to show a good faith. You know as a developer as someone wanting to be in this county.

F

To improve it, so that the citizens, you know, can know that if traffic comes back to where it is.

F

We're doing the mitigation that the county would have required when traffic was at full speed.

B

Thank you. You want to go to the next slide. Jeff.

N

Alrighty, um so we're going to talk a little bit now about the building elevations and how we're.

N

Meeting the county code relative to uh enhanced architecture and having uh attractive looking.

N

Buildings and facades in front of you here you have the four elevations of the building and.

N

You'll see that it is not just a rectangular box, um the facade is broken up into several different.

N

Planes we have parapets that are extending up above the roof line, to give some interest to.

N

The architecture with large copings of different coordinating colors in the front is a canopy over.

N

The front glass of the store providing some protection for people as they're walking in.

N

You'll see that we have brick on the two ends and in the center portion uh in the middle we've got a.

N

Sort of like a stucco type material on the surface on the top and then a lower band of stone, material.

N

Towards the bottom, so we're using multiple different types of.

N

Facade treatments on there to give some interest to it. The front windows are fully glass and.

N

Operational and see through where the front doors you'll see on the two side, facades that.

N

Although they're, uh because of the interior layout with coolers and shelving and the different.

N

Layouts inside we don't necessarily have the ability to have glass that we see in. But there are.

N

Glass panels that will emulate windows so that we have an attractive facade from all sides.

N

There's additional canopies on the sides. Your side elevations uh also break up the the side with the.

N

Burying corner parapets and brick banding in the center and then the rear facade also has uh some.

N

Decorations, this really won't be that visible, because it backs up to the building behind.

N

It, but they have still done the same treatment on all sides of the building, so that it's a.

N

Consistent look the whole way around, and here is what the building will look like with the signage.

N

You'll see that 711 has its uh normal logo, but then they've got some colored bands.

N

On the front, uh laredo taco and roost chicken have a identifier there on either side as well.

N

And there's the back of the building, which will have some signage.

N

And this is an architectural elevation of the canopy. This is not just a flat canopy, but rather.

N

As a sloped uh standing speed, metal roof on it,.

N

And to the right side of the page, you'll see the dumpster enclosure, it has brick and uh the stucco.

N

To match the building of the same color, the uh the poles and the coping along, the top of the walls.

N

And the solid metal enclosures for the dumpsters there, the doors have the same colored metal as the.

N

Roof of the building and all the trim on the main building you'll see that uh in the bottom view of.

N

The fuel canopy there that they're using stone to match the front of the building to come about.

N

Halfway up on the pillars uh by the pumps, and then this is the signage that would be on the canopy.

N

It will be branded as an exxon and have their typical red sign with their red stripe.

N

And this is the car wash. The car wash has the same exact architectural style as the main building.

N

So it has the same brick in stone and stucco. It has windows um and it has glass doors on either.

N

End with the same metal coping- and it has also I forgot to mention on the main building, but.

N

All of the buildings have wall wash lights, so you'll see these small brown rectangles here.

N

And that is lighting the face of the building up on all sides, and this would be the signage.

N

Branding on here so you've got uh identifying the car wash and the entrance and exit.

N

And so that's our building mike yep. So that brings us to.

M

Our concept plan findings um and the criteria that we've talked a little bit about already.

M

We do believe that this project is consistent with the conference. Excuse me, sir excuse me.

D

Mr madinsky board member says you never answered his seating question. Mr harmon yep. I I have it.

M

I have it, I was going to kind of work it in here, but I can do it right now. No, I haven't I'm sorry.

D

I did not read his mind correctly. I I apologize. I I was uh since you were talking about the fueling.

L

Stations uh we've talked about this before at the 7-elevens, but the electric refueling was that.

L

Considered or there's is there a station for that.

M

What was that electric? Is that what? Yes, I think I heard.

M

uh No, we don't have any electric, we do not propose uh no, no charging stations. Okay,.

M

um I can show if you want, we can show jeff. Can you pull up the seating? Do you have that in front.

M

Of you, uh let me try here hold on, I think bill just sent it out, so you can pull it up.

M

Okay, I mean essentially there's uh one two, three, four, five, six, seven.

M

Seven kind of high top tables with two seats at them and then there's like a.

M

Little bar seating area, like a little window kind of you'd, have some barstools and a ledge.

M

Maybe jeff jeff can pull that up and make the technology work, and I'm gonna do my best here.

N

Let's see is everyone seeing the uh yes, you just zoom in on that front portion. So it's just a.

M

Small area- that's just got some high top seats. If somebody wanted to grab a bite at the counter and.

M

Eat it before they left or take it with them yeah. It looks like here there's uh so as you enter the.

N

Main front doors here towards the bottom of the page, your typical checkout counter is on the left.

N

Side, but to the right side coming in you'll, see a small bar against the front window with looks.

N

Like five stools there, and then there are one two three four five, six seven tables with.

N

Two seats at each table so there's seating for uh 14 at the tables and five people with the counter.

N

Thank you all right. Can you bring the well before we pull this off? Does anybody have questions about.

M

That because we're going to get rid of this and then we got to bring the power point back.

M

Hearing none! Okay, that's that's fine! I have an idea how many it's just hard. I really do.

M

Hard to hear I are struggling to hear yeah, mr chairman, just for the record, I don't believe that.

F

Slide is on board docs, uh since I was not part of our primary presentation, we can certainly send.

F

A copy of that, so a hard copy can be added to the record.

F

I know that it'll be shown on the video of the hearing, but we'd be happy to do that. Thank you.

M

Okay, so going back to our findings, uh we do believe that we're consistent with the.

M

Comprehensive plan um the land use is a medium use, medium intensity and the zoning is mx m.

M

The parcel is located within the lexington park development district, where we want development.

M

uh The concept the comprehensive plan does designate this property to be.

M

Medium intensity, mixed use and 711 with fuel sales and car wash is low intensity.

M

Mixed use compatible with the zoning, as jeff had indicated in earlier, slides.

M

And per schedule, 50.4 of the youth classifications, use types and location within the zoning district.

M

So convenience store car wash and fuel sales are permitted, low intensity uses. So we do believe we.

M

Meet that criteria in terms of consistency with the comprehensive plan um we've already talked.

M

About some of these, but as it relates to the adequate public facilities in section 70.2.2.

M

uh We do believe that we can demonstrate that we can meet that. We do have adequate water and two.

M

Sewer available to the site we have approval of construction documents has been provided by metcom.

M

So they've actually already approved it. We do believe that adequate roads are achievable.

M

We do understand that mitigation is required.

M

But in accordance with county code, as mr longmore has already mentioned, the development is located.

M

Within a designated revitalization area and or development district, where the county wants to.

M

Encourage new development or redevelopment these developments would be allowed to proceed in.

M

Certain areas experiencing unacceptable levels of service provided that transportation improvements.

M

Are made which result in an improvement in traffic operations beyond that which would have been.

M

Expected if the development had not occurred so we're also, in addition to the.

M

Fee and lieu mitigation, which is under that section of the code we are making.

M

In addition to that and operational improvement by extending the turn lanes that we had shown earlier,.

M

We did do a traffic study, as has been mentioned, although we believe not required by the code.

M

We did do one and we're making improvement as a result of that. Sha has reviewed that.

M

As an agreement with that department of public works has approved, the traffic study go back, jeff.

M

um The department of public works has approved the traffic study and the apf application uh with the.

M

With the proffer uh that was noted there uh going to fdr um next slide. Sorry about that.

M

uh We do believe this project will promote the health, safety and welfare of the general public.

M

um Providing convenience use loca, which serves a local community, providing access to goods that.

M

Don't require travel to more distance locations. We are providing roadway improvements that are.

M

Going to enhance the operation of the intersection with the extension of the turn lanes, we are going.

M

To provide jobs for the community, we are going to provide tax revenue for the greater good of the.

M

Community we are reducing the amount of impervious area on the project, but maintaining the storm.

M

Water system that was there for a greater amount of pavement in buildings. So that's going to have a.

M

Benefit in terms of runoff and we're redeveloping an existing vacant parcel um so right now the the.

M

Loading crowd has closed. um It's currently not in operation, it's a vacant building and we think.

M

That right, revitalization and redevelopment of that so that we don't have a vacant building.

M

Sitting there for an extended period of time is a benefit to the health and safety of the community.

M

uh We do have adequately developed recreational and other community amenities in accordance with.

M

The comp plan by providing 44 open space, which far exceeds the minimum requirement of 20 and.

M

We believe we do. We are consistent with chapter 62 design objectives regarding the architecture.

M

As demonstrated and discussed by jeff with the building facade, that has desirable aspects of.

M

Architecture, including brick, buried elevation heights canopies over windows and pleasing color.

M

Pallets windows on the front, facade matching the color of the cornice and awnings some faux.

M

Windows are placed on all sides of the building to provide symmetry and interest to the facade.

M

So, in summary, the proposed use is permitted by your code. We meet all applicable code sections.

M

We have not required or requested or needed any variances or waivers.

M

For this project, we are not proposing new access points to the site. These are existing.

M

Entrances that have survived both a mcdonald's, a golden corral that we are proposing to reutilize.

M

We think we've made some improvements in circulation of those access points by.

M

Correcting what we think with the parking out on millstone close to that entrance, we think.

M

That this is a better flow we did receive all agent we did receive from all agencies.

M

Letters of no objection to our concept plan approval. You can see those there.

M

Soil conservation, public works planning, sha met common health department and actually, uh since.

M

The original planning and zoning hearing we have received a final conditional approval from sha.

M

Essentially, meaning that the full engineering is nearly approved, we've also received the final.

M

Approval from metcom on the water and sewer, and we have received final approval from the health.

M

Department, uh we do believe the project meets all requirements for compliance with section.

M

60.6.4 of the st mary's county zoning ordinance, um and we believe this project will provide.

M

Road improvements to the road network to improve traffic operation, as well as the contribution to.

M

The county for the future fdr project, which will help the entire network in the area.

M

And I believe with that, I think that ends our presentation and um I don't know chris if you.

M

Had any closing remarks, or if you're, just waiting until after public comment well before mr longmore.

G

Gets on, I have a question of your team there. In one of my packages, I was trying to find it.

G

But it doesn't seem to appear in your presentation here. There was a slide that reflected signage.

G

And I just had a question because if you had these two restaurants, it seemed to me that.

G

You would probably put sub-indentured signs on the on the street sign and I just didn't see it.

G

Reflected in your signage and having said on this board for close to nine years, I remember one case.

G

Where signs became a major issue, so it's sort of like if you're gonna, if you're gonna get.

G

It approved make sure you get it the first time through not a second time, fair point.

M

uh You're talking and and just to understand that you're talking about the sign, a pylon sign.

M

For the signs it can be you you had it reflected what was going to be on the store. What was going.

G

To be on the glass and then also what's where the street shall we say, the street advertisement signs.

G

So did we does one of you have it hidden in your archive package, because I know I've looked at it a.

G

Dozen times jeff, do you want to comment on that? I'm looking for it right now, I'm sure it's in.

N

In one of these here it was, it was at the time one of the last slides in the package.

N

Yeah I've got a it's. It was on board docs, I think, for the full signage package. I just didn't include.

N

Every single sign, uh let me try and share my screen again here for everybody yeah, and uh I.

N

Can show you the the sign? That's in the package it was included in the staff report. It's one of.

D

The staff attachments it's a half report yeah. Would you like stacy to open it? Okay, I mean I.

D

It's the chairman just had it here, but I looked at what they had as exterior building signs and.

G

I didn't see where and what was the building signs and the pro and as you come down through it, it's.

G

It's like it's, I just don't want you to get caught with if you want to go up later with your your.

G

The chicken or the other, place that you, uh if you want to do it, try to put it in the initial package.

G

Because it seems to be missing- or maybe I'm misr reading it. No, I I believe bill might be able to.

M

Comment on this, but this is the sign package for this store, so I I think this is what the.

M

Sign package is going to be okay, so you won't. You won't be sub advertising on your basic street sign.

G

The restaurants side of it bill do you want to make? Is that accurate bill owen.

M

I believe that's the case. You want to swear me in or do you just want the answer.

A

Let's swear you in if you please stand and raise your right hand.

A

Do you declare and affirm that, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do thank you um so the package they show there was a.

R

Earlier iteration, um I don't know if I'll be able to share here we're gonna, give it a try.

R

That show up. Yes, there you go. Okay. Can everyone see that screen.

R

Can everyone see that or not I can see it.

R

So there will be, there will be uh signage for the restaurants, on the main sign.

R

You can see where uh our science consultant- 7 11 signage consultants, already worked through.

R

And done the analysis as to square footage and so forth, and the signage here as you.

R

Can see this will be the one that's over on uh over on millstone landing.

R

You can see both of these are are compliant um as to the as to the ordinance requirement.

R

That answers the question so you've got it included in the package or.

G

Hear your specs okay, because it looked like it was omitted before.

D

It was not in the original okay um would you want them to submit that to be an exhibit.

D

Why not yes, mr chairman? Yes I mean we certainly can the the signage is not.

F

You know one of the required elements of the of the concept site plan, but we're happy to provide.

F

It that's that's the current uh design of it so we'll be happy to provide another exhibit side.

F

To the record, that would be great. No, I just mr longwear, I just remember about many years back two.

G

Buildings that set vacant for over a year because signs weren't allowed to be put on them as an.

G

Because they short shifted themselves when they developed it, so I just want to.

F

Always pay attention to that okay, so I do yeah. Certainly now I remember I was involved in that.

F

Case I believe, and I remember the board working with that applicant. I appreciate that.

A

Mr longmore, uh where, where are we at, are you finished your presentation uh that was.

F

Our presentation we're certainly available for any other questions. um I would again like the.

F

Opportunity to do a brief, closing argument, but I'm happy to refer to that until after public comment.

F

um Unless the board has any questions, of course, I think what we'll do before we start the public.

A

Hearing process we'll go through and we'll take a 15-minute break and I think we have one more.

A

Question before that, one more question before that uh this was by.

G

This presentation was becker. Morgan group is that how is that affiliated with 7-eleven.

G

Are they a subcontractor or or is it a part of the organization? How does it.

G

How does it tie in organizationally? Were you just contracted to do this or what right? So this.

R

Is william owen from penntex ventures we're the owner of the current golden corral site, uh we're.

R

A developer real estate developer for 7-eleven and we operate what's known as a built to suit.

R

Program where, in essence, we buy the real estate secure approvals and construct the improvements.

R

It's a turnkey uh scenario where we hand the keys over to 7-eleven, they move in the ho ho's.

R

And uh pour the slurpee in the machines and start collecting money for uh you know, for you know the.

R

Various things they sell, we have retained betty tustin from the traffic group and mike ryman and.

R

Jeff from becker morgan group and also christopher longmore, uh to represent penntex ventures in our.

R

Endeavors to secure approvals for our tenant, with whom we have an executed lease seven eleven.

A

Okay: okay, if we could take, uh let's say 10 minutes breaks, we'll start at 10 of.

A

A

The board will now open the hearing up for public testimony.

A

To repeat, as I said earlier, if you want to phone in and make a comment, please call 301.

A

475-4200 extension 1234.

A

Thank you stacy. I can call sherry give me a second.

S

Board of appeals, oh sherry, do we have any calls uh they're coming through and I it's been like.

T

About 15, so sorry, okay, thank you. She's got to um take their information and um put them.

D

On hold for us this, this is where you learn. If you got a big list, this is where you learn. Oh.

G

Yes, especially if it's a road full of people.

G

Okay, we've got a flashlight, oh, I should just be able to pick it up.

D

Hit the flash and light and then connect first.

C

This is the board of appeals. May I have your name and address? Oh no, she told me my name.

S

Is catherine rayley my address is four six three: nine nine eastville road lexington park maryland.

S

Two: zero six, five, three: okay! Thank you, kathleen kathleen, really catherine raley.

C

Catherine raleigh, if you would please uh take the oath before we start your testimony. Do you.

A

Declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses and statements.

A

You may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do thank you. You may proceed.

C

You may proceed great. Thank you. um I am calling in as a resident of esperanza farms.

S

I've grown up in this neighborhood. This is the neighborhood directly off millstone landing road.

S

After hearing all of the information today, it seems very clear that a lot of these people.

S

Have never made a left-hand turn out of millstone landing road onto 235.. This intersection is very.

S

Busy there's a lot of traffic regardless of covid. It is not a safe intersection to add a gas station.

S

That will, as it's been noted, will increase. Traffic is not as it's unsafe, it's unsafe. For me, it's.

S

Unsafe for the other families that drive this road every day, it's unsafe for green holly elementary.

S

School, which is less than a quarter of a mile away from 7-eleven green holly elementary school, has.

S

A lot of students with schools reopening it will have a lot of bus traffic and I'm concerned about.

S

The safety of our students, our bus drivers, our families that drive this road every day.

S

Further, the mr reinman has talked about the health, safety and welfare of changing golden crowd into.

S

A 7-eleven, I don't see how that will increase the health, safety and welfare of my neighborhood.

S

Revitalization of lexington park, esperanza farms is across the street from the.

S

California, maryland post office if we need to revitalize lexington park. I think that our.

S

Project should be more focused on great mills, road, shangri-la drive and st mary square. I also.

S

Don't see how this is an asset to the community when it does increase safety and traffic concerns.

S

And it's not adding any convenience if the traffic is so backed up that we're not able to access it.

S

We are able within just a couple of miles, to have gas stations elsewhere, so I don't want to.

S

Risk my safety for something that will not be convenient. People cut through that parking lot.

S

Constantly to get around 235 and avoid the light there's backup from the pnc bank on the other side.

S

Of that intersection, there's backups from san souci plaza. You can see it in the turn lanes.

S

People, speeding through running red lights and going through the current empty parking lot to cut.

S

Traffic, um so just again as a resident who has grown up here, who has a home here, I.

S

Object to the 7-eleven being put in. Thank you, okay! Well, that will hold on a second mr alley.

A

uh Does the board members have any questions? No, sir! No sir, thank you very much. Ma'am.

T

Thank you, the attorney chris. uh No, no! No! No! I can't speak up. Okay, let's see.

C

This is the board of appeals. May I have your name, please. Yes, patrick hunt, patrick hunt.

C

That's correct, patrick hunt. Okay hold for just a moment; okay, mr, mr, if you, if you would take.

A

The oath for me, please do you, declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do okay. Thank you very much proceed.

U

I've been a resident down here in esperanza farms for close to 20 years now,.

U

um I originally worked in dc and came down, came to come home in the evening and had to deal with.

U

The rush hour traffic coming out of the bay sit and could sit through two cycles before you can.

U

Make a left-hand turn onto millstone landing road. You would have the traffic coming from the base.

U

Blocking the intersection, then you would have the traffic coming out of san sushi plaza blocking the.

U

Intersection now it's been said that we don't know if the base is going to go back to 100.

U

If it even comes back to 50, we will still have that problem of attempting to make a left-hand.

U

Turn once at the orange millstone landing road, it seems to be the entire conversation this evening.

U

Has been about 2 35 and not about millstone landing room there. There are several hundred.

U

People who live off of millstone landing road there is an elementary school about a thousand.

U

Feet from the intersection of 235 millstone landing road, you have traffic backed up, not.

U

Just in rush hour, but during the day where those buses have to wait to be able to cross over 235.

U

You now have the case brand new mccains built into sound sushi, which is increase. The traffic coming.

U

Out of there you have the the car dealership, the ford dealership and, I believe, there's a.

U

Another dealership wine gardener is going to be opening up soon. Dumping more traffic onto 235.

U

And any of those people who wish to go north will have to make the turn at millstone landing road.

U

You have instance, after instance, every one of us that live down here know that we make when we make.

U

That left-hand turn onto millstone landing. We have to be very conscious of the cars in front of us.

U

Invariably, you have a car in the right left-hand lane immediately stop to turn into the shopping.

U

Center, that's right there now or when the golden corral is open. The same thing you have often have.

U

To swerve to avoid that car and go into the other left-hand lane or you're in that the lane and the.

U

Car is, in the far left hand, lane immediately turn into the shopping center, where the pnc bank is.

U

And as the young lady before me said, invariably you have people coming north on 235.

U

Cutting through that parking lot, where the 7-eleven will be.

U

Cutting through the parking lot of the current store or turning onto millstone landing, making.

U

An immediate left into the parking lot, so they can avoid the traffic back up at that.

U

Intersection, we don't know what the base is going to do. We sure, as the devil should be planning.

U

But it will come back in some capacity and is going to affect that intersection. The 7-eleven.

U

The 7-eleven is a recipe. No, no. I should let me take this back. It's not the 7-eleven.

U

Any business of this size, which is a recipe for disaster at that intersection. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Mr house, if you hold on a second, do the board. Members have any questions. No sir, mr longmore.

F

No thank you, mr chairman. Okay, thank you, mr arts. Next caller. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

C

This is the board of appeals. Can I have your name please.

T

Sure, susan smith, susan smith, susan smith, um this is dan igneoski and I would like to take you to.

A

I would like to have you take the oath? Do you declare an affirm under the penalty and of perjury.

T

Hi, I am also a resident of esperanza farm okay. Ma'am hold on. You need to take the oath um to be.

C

Sworn into the hearing please: okay, do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

C

Do you confirm affirmative to the oath man.

T

Yes, I'm just having trouble hearing. Okay, you may proceed. You may proceed ma'am.

T

Thank you. I am also a resident of esperanza farms and kathy spoke about making left onto 235.

T

South patrick talked about making the left onto mill millstone landing. In addition to that, there's.

T

An issue with making that right hand turn onto millstone landing from 235 there's not enough.

T

Room to merge to get back into the neighborhood, with additional traffic coming in and out of those.

T

Cnc, um the days off delhi parking lot as well as the golden corral parking lot.

T

I've had at least one near miss every month since I've lived there. I didn't hear in this proposal.

T

Any consideration given to any of the residents of the esperanza farm neighborhood, I heard no.

T

Impact on the traffic or millstone landing, the discussions were all about password traffic.

T

Pass-Through traffic isn't really pass-through if it goes into the 7-eleven and comes back out onto.

T

Millstone millstone landing road. In addition, you know everybody talks about the ford dealership.

T

That doesn't back up right onto a neighborhood. There's no been no consideration for the residents.

T

um My final statement is the fee in lieu of the additional traffic doesn't help us.

T

In our neighborhood, unless it's applied to and make improvements on, millstone landing.

T

And, and to work to improve that intersection.

T

Above and beyond, adding four more spots, and that left hand turn lane onto millstone landing.

T

And finally, I don't think anybody's giving consideration to how many.

T

Accidents have actually been recorded at this intersection. That's all I have okay. Thank you, mr.

A

Smith, if you'd hold on for a second, do the board. Members have any questions, no sure. No, mr longmore.

A

No thank you, mr chairman. Thank you, mrs smith. Thank you. Miss smith. Thanks.

C

This is the board of appeals. May I have your name hi. My name is bill. Reimer.

C

Mr reimer, could you hold on for the oath, yes hi, mr reimer? This is dan ichnaski and I'd like to give.

A

You the have you take the earth. Do you declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Mr reimer, are you going to firm the oath, sir? Yes, okay, thank you. You may proceed.

C

You may proceed, sir, could you hold on for the oh absolutely.

C

You can turn the tv down, sir. It might be easier to hear through the phone perjury.

U

Responses and statements you may give you the whole truth, mr rhymer yeah. Yes, sir.

C

Okay, you may proceed, sir, probably is.

C

Hello, yes, yes, you may proceed all right, I'm a retired engineer. I live here in esperanza farms.

V

I've lived here since 1971.

V

I've seen every possible phase of disaster at this intersection up here with 235.

V

There has to be a better safer use for that property traffic will boom at that intersection.

V

No matter what it is now it will boom and I think we ought to face reality with 7-elevens.

V

Statistically around here and in many places in the area, 7-elevens are thug magnets. We have nasty.

V

Crime across 235, right now from our area, the vaping facilities, the liquor store. The last thing.

V

In the world we need for safety and benefit of our population. Is a 7-eleven thug, magnet.

V

Traffic wise, the place is already rated f by the state. It's a failed intersection.

V

The last thing we need is 16 additional gas pumps at our street entrance.

V

And I really got to look at. I was impressed with one of the solid rules of planning for our area.

V

In order to be approved, it must promote health safety and welfare of the citizens.

V

There is no way in god's green earth. This promotes health, safety and welfare of us.

V

And I repeat, there has to be a better, safer use for that property. Thank you, mr reimer. If you.

A

Hold on for a second hold on for just a moment. Do the board members have any questions. Mr longmore.

F

No questions, mr chairman, thank you. Thank you, mr reimer. Thank you, mr reimer. You have.

C

A nice evening, thank you. This is the board of your pills. Can I have your name please.

W

It's todd morgan, mr morgan, can you hold on for the oath yeah, fine, okay,.

A

Mr morgan, do you declare an affirm under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

C

Do you confirm affirmative to the oh sir, I do thank you. You may proceed.

W

Okay, my name is todd morgan. I go at four six, five, three six millisecond landing road and.

W

I'm calling in opposition to the 7-eleven. I have listened for the last two hours to very passionate.

W

Pleas by the developer of what's going to go on, but quite frankly, when you consider health safety.

W

And welfare to the situation, it's not there. As was pointed out previously, the intersection is an f.

W

And f is an f and f fails when you consider the consideration of the proper, you were mixing apples.

W

And oranges, the ford dealership proper had nothing to do with what the 711 is doing. It had to do with.

W

The access had to do with the turnaround circle and the ability to expand fdr boulevard down from.

W

Chancellor's run to peg road when we want to discuss such situations as the golden corral.

W

And the and the former mcdonald's that's correct, but those were not in and out you went. Then you.

W

Sat down you ate, um we discussed the base openings the base openings. We do not know about. I agree the.

W

Newest number is july, but who knows what's going to happen there when we consider the remediation.

W

Yes, tier two requirements are gonna, be able to be met by the 7-eleven, because you're on the.

W

East side of 235, they don't have to do with the mitigation that dnr is going to put on.

W

But at the big time the big thing folks here is the swac is the box is that there is no police.

W

Enforcement whatsoever of 235. if anyone listened to the sheriff on tuesday in a meeting with the.

W

Commissioners, he said we don't have time for this. We have one safety officer. It just so happens that.

W

From two to five in the afternoon, that is when everyone happens to be on call and anyone who sits.

W

In that intersection knows that they block the box, whether it be people traveling north and don't.

W

Want to wait for the red light, they block the box when the light turns at the intersection for sans.

W

Sushi to come out, they block the box. The prief will trying to make a left-hand turn can't get out.

W

The people to come south to onto mostly land road people trying to make a left-hand turn south and.

W

235 can't get out. This is a health and safety matter. We can go through every code, saint mary's.

W

County has, and you can dance around everything, and it can look really good and everything you want to.

W

Construct there meets code. I can't deny that, but the health and safety of my community, where I live.

W

And I represent is in peril with the 7-eleven, and I encourage you to vote no and by the way this is.

W

No different than the discussion you had a number of months ago about the seven level atlanta town.

W

Middle school same thing, except here you got a lot more traffic folks, and you know as well as I do.

W

With that, thank you very much. Thank you, mr morgan. If you hold on for a second.

A

Do the board members have any questions? No, sir, mr longmore, do you have any questions? I might.

A

Have one? uh No, I don't have any questions. We got one question from a board member yeah here I am.

G

Shooting my mouth off again, mr morgan, this is john brown. uh Are you still a member of the navy forum.

G

Or the whatever, that group was that interface between the county and the uh and the navy.

G

I think you used to be a member of it. Did he hear it? I don't think that they can hear you.

F

Yes, ma'am, could you hear mr brown's question to you? I did not okay, he asked if you were still a.

C

Member of the forum that interacts between the county and the navy navy alliance navy.

G

Alliance, yes, interacts between the I am. I am a. I am a representative to the navy alliance. Yes,.

G

Then the question is, what do do you know as any for a sort of input in terms of.

G

Plans to retract, or should we say base shall we say hot bunking the the base is. I mean your.

G

Desk, rather than coming to work every day, in other words off-site in-home work, I hear you correctly.

W

Mr brown, the base has been very vague as to what's going to happen when they come back. The newest.

W

Anticipated comeback date is going to be in july, webster field they're talking about maybe possibly.

W

April, um that's all still up in the air, and I don't have a crystal ball whatsoever to tell you.

W

What's going to happen, but I do know that there is tremendous tremendous angst in the community.

W

For people who want to go back to work, there's a desire there, the pent-up frustration that exists.

W

Between the government workers, the contractors and us on base is is really bad right now they.

W

Want to go back to work, and when that happens, I believe that they will be coming back on 2 35.

G

Thank you. Thank you, mr morgan. Thank you. Oh bye, mr brown. Virginia tech goes down by four.

C

What was that wisecrack said virginia tech's down by four, but maryland won.

A

Today, didn't they both of them men and women. What do you say about the story? I appreciate.

G

Oh they'll, pull it out just like uva did.

O

C

This is board of appeals. Can I have your name, please john harris, john harris. Okay, john harris.

A

If you please take the oath for me, do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

C

Did you hear the oh sir.

C

Did you confirm the oath sir? Yes.

A

Okay, I will repeat it yeah, okay, here, yes, thank you. You may proceed. Yes, I did. You may proceed, sir.

C

Okay, yes, I did okay, you may proceed huh okay,.

X

Thank you. My name is john harris. I also am a resident of esperanza farms.

X

My name is john harris. I am also a resident of esperanza farms, mr harris, if you could turn your.

C

Tv down, while you give your statement, it might be easier for you to hear us.

C

In the conference room, can you hear me now? Yes, sir, we can hear you okay, so my name is john harris.

X

I'm a resident of esperanza farms been here for about 20 years. I sent in my comments earlier in.

X

The week you have them and I was going to address two areas- traffic and crime traffic, I think- has.

X

Been fairly well discussed crime I wanted to to discuss in my input. In my comments I identified.

X

Seven different cases of crime at 7-elevens around the geographic area of us, someone over.

X

In virginia some up in in the greater washington area, it seems that 7-eleven attracts crime.

X

And we're a residential community and we've already had some break-ins you've, also got.

X

Green hawley school, which is a would be a target of vandalism, as well as the community, and also.

X

You're asking people to uh you're suggesting that people aren't going to come through the community.

X

Speeding through the community- and we have small children- it's dangerous, so I just think that we're.

X

Looking at a potential for increases in vandalism or robbery and uh even crime at the 7-eleven.

X

That's that is my comment. Okay, if you hold on for a second, do the board. Members have any questions.

A

uh Mr longmore, do you have any questions.

F

No, mr chairman, thank you very much. Okay. Thank you, mr harris very much.

C

Thank you, mr harris. You have a nice evening.

C

This is the board of appeals. Could you please state your name.

P

Mary lover, mary lover: yes, that's correct: okay, mary lover, okay, mary, the wild oath.

A

I will give you the oath now: do you declare an affirm under the penalties of perjury, that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

C

Do you confirm I do okay? Thank you very much. Ma'am. You may proceed.

P

I am in favor of this. My children are involved in sports in the county and it is very difficult to.

P

Get in and out of the couple convenience stores that are available in that area and the lack of.

P

Gas stations in the area- I believe this is a is a good girth project for the community.

A

Thank you ma'am if you hold is that is that all is that your state? Okay, hang on.

A

um Do the board members have any questions? No, sir, um mr longmore, do you have any questions.

F

No thank you, mr chairman. Okay, thank you very much, miss walter. Thank you, mr.

C

C

This is board of appeals. Could you please state your name.

Y

My name is gail gibson miss gibson, gail gibson. Yes, ms gibson, um if you will listen to the oath.

A

Please and firm or whatever do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Y

I do thank you, you may proceed.

C

You may proceed miss gibson.

Y

Hi, I'm calling in opposition or opposing the 7-eleven ban at the corner of 235 and millstone.

Y

Landing, I am a resident of esperanza farms. I have lived here for 30 years. I raised my children here.

Y

And my parents moved into the neighborhood as elderly, trying to get those kids to school when.

Y

They were driving through the intersection, was a nightmare and hail. Mary's were said every day. The.

Y

Same with my father as a senior citizen driving in and out that quarter, corner intersection has.

Y

Been a nightmare, we do not need a 7-11 with more gas pumps that are going to be open, 24.

Y

Hours a day, seven days a week, it's going to increase traffic, that's already too volatile.

Y

We have gas if you get to the intersection and you go a half a mile to the left.

Y

There's or south on 235 there are walla with the 24 7, where you can convenience store. You.

Y

Can get your gas if you get to the intersection of 235 and millstone and go a half a mile north.

Y

The sheets is right there with the convenience of running in, to get something 24.

Y

7 to get your sandwiches or to get your gas, it is not necessary to increase our public.

Y

Danger for lack of a better word: it does not help our public safety at all. When you were referring.

Y

To the golden corral and mcdonald's, they were not open, 24 7., so we didn't have the increased traffic.

Y

We've already had issues, it's the wawa with muggings and shootings, and we don't need.

Y

And it's occurring in the evenings and whatnot. We don't need that at the 7-eleven. This close to.

Y

Our neighbors and it's a family environment, it's a community where we live and are raising our kids.

Y

And whatnot we have the elementary school as many of the callers that have called in have mentioned.

Y

Numerous buses going in and out, we have pnc bank and I'll. Tell you, the pnc bank, when the.

Y

Lexington park bank closed has increased traffic. I drive to work. I go to work in my office now even.

Y

During covid and I sit at the traffic light and there's I'm probably like the fourth or fifth car.

Y

Back because I cannot get through where people are coming out of um pnc there's either buses.

Y

Sitting there or I have to sit there, so it takes me two light sometimes to get through and even.

Y

Then you're going through that intersection again saying your hail mary's there have been.

Y

Numerous accidents and fatalities there we have lost neighbors and friends at that intersection.

Y

So I just want to go on the record that I am not for this and I hope it doesn't happen.

A

Excuse me miss dixon, if you hold on for a second, are there any questions.

A

From the board members, no sure no, mr longmore, do you have any questions.

A

No questions, mr chairman, thank you, okay. Thank you, mr jackson. Thank you. Thank you.

C

I think that's it, but I will call sherry to make sure.

C

Board of appeals, sherry, do we have any more callers um at this at this time we do not have any.

S

Further callers, even though there was interest okay, thank you. Thank you. Bye-Bye.

A

Okay, no, no additional questions um or public comment. uh What I'd like.

A

To do now, I guess is turn it back over to mr longmore for summation.

A

And then I will also certainly thank you for hearing first.

A

Go ahead, mr lawrence, I'm sorry all right! Thank you. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you.

F

Members of the board for for your attention and consideration tonight of this application.

F

um First and in response to some of the public comments just to.

F

To share a few thoughts with the board, then I'll get into kind of our general summary.

F

um One thing that I feel I'd be remiss not putting on the record is the attorney for the applicant.

F

And I know the board is aware of this. I know certainly your returning, the county attorney.

F

Is aware of this, that an individual project cannot be required to mitigate or solve a problem that it.

F

Did not cause it can be required to mitigate any additional traffic. That would be added to this.

F

Location, but it is not the duty or or burden of this applicant to solve other issues that.

F

Existed before um this application came before you that that would be a statement, um an illegal.

F

Taking if they were required to do it, and that simply is not allowed under our legal system.

F

um You know we certainly understand that um there are neighbors in the neighborhood that.

F

Have concerns about this that have uh fears that they've expressed, um but you know what I will say.

F

Is this? Is that it's difficult, and I do a lot of this work as the board knows.

F

We often have you know neighbors that come out and do not um want something somewhere.

F

um They have every right to voice their concerns and opinions, and I respect and.

F

Certainly uh don't uh belittle them or in any way said that they shouldn't have the right to do that.

F

um But what we have the the system we have is that we have a group of rules um and the speakers that.

F

Spoke before you certainly know that um they're rules that are passed by our county commissioners.

F

And adopted by our county commissioners that every applicant that comes before the planning.

F

Commissioner of this board has to meet and when you look at our application, I'm I'm grateful.

F

To to my clients and to the folks I've presented before I'm sure the board is, I don't need to go.

F

Over the five standards- because I think those were covered in detail before.

F

But what I can say is that when you have a set of rules like we have that are complicated and.

F

Difficult to meet, um they have to be applied fairly, and I do take some exception to one.

F

Of the comments that lexington park, ford was a completely different project. It was one that was.

F

Approved very recently and as I believe this board knows and and it's in the traffic reports and in.

F

The and in the ordinances themselves that when you develop a property, you have to look at the.

F

Intersections the most the closest intersections to the property you're developing in order to.

F

Determine traffic patterns the lexington park ford had to look at the same intersection we're here.

F

Talking about tonight um and the reason one of the reasons they needed to do mitigation- that's.

F

In the record was because of this intersection and they did their mitigation just like we're.

F

Proposing to do- um and it may have been for a different segment of fdr, but it's the same project.

F

um So one of the things that I think this board you know should be careful about and.

F

All of our boards and officials should be careful about it's treating all applicants.

F

That come before the board, fairly um and in the same manner as other applicants.

F

If the rules are strict, my clients always tell me they can live with that, but when there are rules.

F

That they follow and they're not applied um in a consistent way. That's where we really run into.

F

Into a place where I think it's legally challenging for for the county, but it's.

F

Also, just completely unfair, now I'd ask that you consider the site that we're we're looking at.

F

Certainly there there is a neighborhood further down millstone landing road. They have to drive.

F

Through this intersection, we appreciate that, but this site is in the lexington.

F

Park development district- that is the district that our county commissioners has designated.

F

As our primary development district, that is where they have said they want all the development to go.

F

And- and I can't tell you how many times I've been before the planning commission and some before.

F

This board, where I'll be with a project, that's developing developing a brand new site and the.

F

Comments I get back or the challenges I get back. Are we don't want somebody to build something new.

F

We're afraid of all the vacant buildings we already have and we don't want them to sit vacant.

F

And if this board ignores the plain language of the ordinance ignores the standards that.

F

We have and looks at my client and says: yes, you meet the standards but because some people spoke.

F

Out against it, or because I don't like the brand of store that you have um that you're proposing.

F

um That goes completely against the comprehensive plan and the goals that have been.

F

Set forth by both the planning commission and this board.

F

So we'd ask that you consider this there's a vacant restaurant there that shut down because.

F

During this coven crisis, there are communities that are in peril and losing.

F

Much economic power and engine and tax base- and we have a developer that is here that.

F

Is investing in our community that looked at our rules and is willing to follow them.

F

That is investing an extra 300 000 plus to both improve the intersection that they're building at.

F

Even though it wasn't approved by golden corral or mcdonald's, when they were there um and they're.

F

Willing to contribute toward the construction of a road that will also alleviate some traffic from.

F

235 I've heard the county commissioners at their table say that's the reason. We're building that.

F

And we all know, that's the reason why it's already been used on the session. That's opened up and it's.

F

And it's been a very nice project, um you know what what I'm concerned about and what really causes.

F

An incredible chilling effect is when you have these rules that are difficult and you require.

F

Applicants to go through them and they can be applied in a haphazard fashion. It will cause.

F

A chilling effect to our community, if you do that this is a site that was already developed.

F

Some of the the folks that spoke said it's not an it wasn't an in and outside before. It.

F

Sure was when it was mcdonald's. They had a drive through there, so you can't tell me that wasn't.

F

In an outside done- and this is being redeveloped in a way that is more environmentally friendly.

F

Is better traffic pattern? Wise has is improving the intersection off of or the entrance off of.

F

235 to get into the project and it simply meets all the standards of our ordinance.

F

All we ask is that you look at the five standards that you're supposed to meet.

F

And look at our project, we don't require any variances. I know this board is well aware of that.

F

Process we meet all the standards, we're making it more environmentally friendly, we're redeveloping.

F

A site that has been developed for decades within the lexington park, development district.

F

On our main road, within the development district right, where we want commercial development as.

F

Can be seen by the the zoning category that it was resumed as by our county commissioners. Just.

F

A couple years ago, if they wanted to rezone this property to downtown, they could have, and they did.

F

Not during the lexington park development district process- so all we ask here tonight is that you.

F

Look at the five standards we believe that is summarized at the end of our presentation that.

F

We more than meet them. You have an applicant here that is willing to do their share of mitigation.

F

Even believing that traffic probably will be less regardless of what happens in july or beyond, but.

F

They're willing to mitigate as if we're at full traffic before this, this crisis that we're in.

F

And we, I was flabbergasted in the planning commission that a project like this could get shut.

F

Down when it meets as as one of the folks that spoke said when it meets every part of the code.

F

So we ask that you, you look at the applica application.

F

We are proud of it. We believe that it improves this site. We believe that it will be a convenience.

F

For many citizens of our our county and as this boardwell knows, the people that are going.

F

To enjoy and use this and be happy it's, there are probably not the people watching a hearing.

F

On a thursday night on youtube, but but I have no doubt that this will be a well visited.

F

Business it'll be a prosperous business and will be one that many of our citizens as the one that.

F

Spoke in support of it will enjoy and appreciate as a convenience store that is convenient and that.

F

Our citizens can use as they're leaving the base to fill up or as they're running around like I.

F

Do with my kids to all their sporting events, so we'd ask that you give us just consideration. We.

F

Appreciate your attention tonight, and certainly if you have any questions of us that have not.

F

Been asked or that we haven't answered we'd be happy to do so. Thank you before we enter the.

A

Discussion portion do we have any comments, any questions. Yes, I have some questions. I don't know.

G

People have, I also have one, but I don't know if it can be answered here tonight.

L

It's probably more of a comment: we've been hearing about this f intersection, it's failing.

L

How many more of those do we have in the county? I don't I don't this. This is the first time I've.

L

Heard of a failing intersection, I don't I just don't I don't know, I would imagine 235.

A

And route 4 is an f failing intersection. I'm I'm not sure we had a hearing there. I don't.

L

It was, um I don't know if it was or not. I mean I know mr mills is here, I don't know if he knows.

F

The statistics I I believe that intersection is as well that um that the the chair just mentioned.

F

um And again, the f designation. It certainly says that in the designations, we're not trying to.

F

To dance around that in any way, but our zoning ordinance specifically addresses those type.

F

Of intersections within the development district and says that when you're in them.

F

That you can still develop if you're near one of those intersections as long as you mitigate.

F

And and that's section 70.7.2 d, as I read my zoning ordinance and I'm sure mr knight will.

F

Correct me or mr hotwell, if I'm wrong, my zoning ordinance appears to say that that provision was.

F

Most recently amended and updated in 2013., so that is not an old rule that has just sat.

F

There that nobody knew about it's one that was put in place by you know, fairly recently by our.

F

Board of county commissioners. So if this were an f intersection outside of the development district.

F

Would be a different conversation, but our county commissioners have made that policy decision that.

F

When you're in the development, district and you're you're at one of these actions intersections that.

F

They don't want to shut down all new development on route 235, because you could do that around.

F

The intersection of 4 and 235, it could go to this intersection as well, and they didn't want.

F

To do that, so they said instead of doing that as long as you don't make it worse and you mitigate.

F

What you're, putting there we're going to allow development to go within our development district.

L

Okay, mr okay, I have a couple questions. I want to make sure we get on the record. What is the.

G

Hours of operation for this 7-eleven is it: is it a 7, 24 7, or is it something less than that.

F

I mean perhaps a bill or someone else can address that, because that'll need to be in testing yeah.

R

This will be, I believe, a 24 7, location. Okay, I just want to make sure it was there.

G

um Also on the traffic studies, was it only 235, the intersection were any of the.

G

Additional roads down millstone that we've heard in our public comments.

G

uh Any of those addressed like coming out of pnc or some of that stuff.

F

Well- and I can let the engineers certainly speak to that and correct me if I'm wrong.

F

The traffic studies require that you study the intersections that are closest to the development.

F

And so the intersection when we've been saying 235, I believe almost all of the comments, if not all, of.

F

Them have been talking about its interaction with millstone landing lane that wasn't meant to slight.

F

um That that road, we certainly understand that that road is very important to the people that.

F

Live on it, of course, more than anybody else, uh but but all of the studies were designed.

F

To to look at that intersection um are, are betty or or.

F

You know any of you can jump in if I'm speaking anything wrong, but the design also does look at.

F

The entrances to make sure they're proper sight distances and that there aren't any.

F

Conflicts that would make them too dangerous to be approved by epw or state highway respectively.

F

But I can let you all speak just to add just to add this is mike ryman just to add to that and and.

M

That, generally too, because this is a convenience use with such a high pass by percentage studying.

M

The intersection that the convenience store is located at is the critical intersection to look at.

M

Because, as betty had stated in her testimony, 76 of traffic that visits, these facilities are already.

M

On the roadway, um so if studying the effects of traffic at the immediate intersection is the key.

G

So to answer my question: the only site that was studied was millstone and and uh 235 no other.

G

Intersection correct a long bill, stone, correct, that's correct! Okay! Now I have a question about.

G

The traffic study- I'm sorry- I missed it when and miss tustin, because she has her big pe stamp on it.

G

But on page three, there are two blocks and it's under existing level of service.

G

And I guess showing two different methodologies for calculating one was a, I guess, a clv study.

G

And basically said millstone landing road and macarthur boulevard was an f now you.

G

Get down to another block below that and it says utilizing the hcm methodology that maryland 235.

G

And millstone landing road were a c 33.5. However, in the narrative, when it talks about the hcm.

G

Approach methodology by adding, in things like the ford dealership and the proposed 711, they come.

G

Up with with a level e, so is what are we dealing with here and what it's rated as because it looks.

G

Like you have two methodologies and you may be trying to push one over the other or or the major.

G

Differences and distinguishing characteristics of these two methodologies. What is that? Okay,.

E

There are um that's a good question. There are two methodologies that we use in traffic engineering.

E

One is the cld method which looks at the volume and the geometry of the intersection. The other.

E

Is a more complicated, uh sophisticated method called the htm highway capacity.

E

Manual methodology which look at the operational, the signal timing, et cetera, et cetera, um st mary's.

E

County for signalized intersection and their code asks us to look at clv. We provided the hcm.

E

Analysis because state highway is familiar with that, and this was a response also to the state.

E

Highway administration, but in st mary's county they asked us for signalized intersection to.

E

Use this clb the critical name, volume methodology and they do have in some cases, different results.

G

So, according to the satanist criteria, you're suggesting that.

G

That it really, it really is a level f at the peak hour.

E

Using this, the critical lane methodology- yes, we have a level service app, but, as mr.

E

Longmore expressed that is permitted in the code as long as there's some mitigation provided for it.

E

Using the highway capacity manual methodology, which considers the signal timing, how much.

E

Green somebody has, you know you have for each approach. We have a level service e.

E

And we can improve that as that chart shows to a d with some adjustments in that signal. Timing.

F

And mr edmund, on behalf of my client, just to make it clear again, the.

F

Traffic study that we're reviewing is not required legally um under our code um and I believe.

F

At the first I was not representing these folks at their first planning commission hearing.

F

um But as I understand it, staff agreed with that going into the hearing, but the planning commission.

F

Asked for this study, which my client agreed to do because they wanted to delay any fears.

F

And when the study was done and it suggested that mitigation should be required, they agreed to do it.

F

But but there is a provision within our code that when you're, when you're not adding too many trips.

F

To an existing road, you don't have to go through a traffic study.

F

Both you know, because of the expense and otherwise, but again you.

F

You know, I think I asked the board to think about that. You have an applicant that knew.

F

They were not required to do it, but they agreed to do it because it was a concern of the county.

F

And when they did it, they agreed to mitigate all the problems that were found in that study.

F

If an applicant like that does not um acknowledged for going above and beyond um again this, the sport.

F

Should really consider the type of signal you're sending to the folks that buy a piece of property.

F

That haven't allowed use that's in the development district that can meet all the standards. If this.

F

Type of project gets denied, I mean you know gosh. This isn't something that's not in the.

F

Development district or in an area that just has uh residences around that this is on our.

F

Main strip where there's businesses on all sides of it and there's always been a business here.

A

Any other questions- and I would I I'd note for the record- the the comments from dpw- do confirm.

F

In the record that were before the planning commission, that no traffic study was required.

F

But again just so, this is a record we need to establish before this board as well.

F

uh Legally, that was not required, even though my client uh did so voluntarily. Thank you, mr.

A

Longmore, I believe now it is time for the board to discuss and come up with a decision. Anybody like.

B

To start, mr chairman, I'd start first, I say that 235 is the main artery in saint mary's county.

B

It's in development district, it's zoned correctly and if there's an expectation that you're going to.

B

Drive on 235 to do business and not have traffic and be able to just pull into a parking spot.

B

You're you're mistaken: this is what the county wants us to do is have it in a central area.

B

And no expectation, there's not gonna, be any traffic and I I I would vote to approve it.

A

Okay, anybody else uh my comments are essentially as long as you have a traffic study.

G

That basically says it's, the intersection is failing.

G

How can we sit here and put the check mark in adequate public facilities? I just can't do it.

G

Hints have been sent by this board very loud and clear, go find out what the base is doing.

G

What their hours are going to be and how many people are going to be using that.

G

But you know, as long as the record shows it's a failing intersection. How can we add to it.

G

I mean that's what we're doing and hey uh it may be zoned, but it's with this kind of traffic uh-oh.

G

And I seriously question now: if it what it turns out to be what I think it will be meaning less.

G

Traffic and they had the numbers that that's supportable, maybe, but you hear too many people.

G

And believe me, I think, we've all come back through there at ourselves at the wrong time.

G

Of day and you're lucky because of the chain of traffic lights, all the way up to route 4.

G

And not being timed and I'm sure they attempted to try to get that worked.

G

But it doesn't work you're lucky to get two or three and people cars through an.

G

Intersection or out of an intersection turning left or right and yes and I'm one of them I'll.

G

Block the intersection in order to get through- and I I when I hear this out of these people.

G

As representatives of them, I just can't support it. Okay, okay.

A

Anybody want to go next sure I will first. I really want to uh commend 7-eleven on the site.

K

Improvements, I think they really were impressive. However, I don't feel that the site improvements.

K

Will help to contribute to the safety of that intersection today, for example, I don't think.

K

Anyone was home and I don't know how many people on the base, but everybody was on 2 35 today.

K

Because I was out there, there was a lot of traffic um and I think one of the things that we're.

K

Focusing on, or maybe not focusing on is the fact that you keep talking about the 7-eleven store. I.

K

Think we need really need to think hard about how many cars are going to be coming there to refuel.

K

I think we've kind of danced around that it's sort of focused us more to the who's going to be.

K

Visiting the store, not who's, going to be visiting the gas tanks, not to mention the car wash so.

K

Putting all that together and looking at we looking at the fact that we are.

K

Dealing with a failed intersection, um it's going to be a hard decision to make.

A

I I would be glad to go next um go ahead. Thank you, mr chairman.

A

um I guess being being part of the industry that we heard tonight being a civil engineer being.

A

Familiar with traffic studies being familiar with with with development projects, I think a very good.

A

There was a very good job done by the applicant in preparing his plan. There were no other exceptions.

A

That we heard to the ordinance, I think, with the f intersection. Yes, it's there. It's at a pm peak.

A

And the rest of the intersection operates at an acceptable level. We have proposed mitigation.

A

To ease the situation, not only at this intersection but will ultimately be up and down.

A

235. fdr boulevard was always designed to take traffic off of 235., and I can tell you I remember.

A

From back in the late 70s early 80s that the original intent was to build fdr boulevard as.

A

A land access route 235 at that time was to be a commuter route from route 4 to the base.

A

And that fell apart over the years because of the timing and their and fdr did not do not appear.

A

So I believe this this: this will.

A

Be a project where, where um we address some of that and we start putting some money aside,.

A

To build fdr and get that road completed, I think there's also a fail-safe.

A

Provision that we see here is that we're just making recommendations on the approval of a.

A

Site plan ultimate approval by staff will be made for the study and the adequate public.

A

Facilities requirements and if they don't like that, they'll come back here to see us again. No are.

G

You saying that we're a recommender, no we're up and down I mean yes, mr hunt can veto it later, but.

G

But right, if we say no, nobody else can change that. That's correct, except the district court. Of course.

G

Circuit court: I think it's district anyway, who could quote a bunch of lawyers.

B

The traffic study is is well alive, but then in 19.

B

A lot of things happened since then. I have no crystal ball, uh but the traffic is down. I wouldn't.

B

Argue today is a nice day get out. I was working on my lawn, but I showed up. It was out of the house.

B

But again there there they followed all the rules and again there's no expectation that you're.

B

Going to come through 235 and not have traffic, that's where it's set up. I agree mr mcdowsky.

L

It's a tough call, um any progress anytime, you do anything it's going to create more traffic and.

L

You know people are going to get hurt, but that's they have accidents. It's not intentional.

L

I think 7-eleven has done a good job here and what they've presented.

L

And I can't fix the intersection, but I don't see where their project's going to make it.

L

That much worse, I really don't. I think the same amount of traffic is going to come and.

L

Go just like it is today. What is this? There may be a few extra people at that intersection.

L

Turning but other than that, I don't see, I don't have a problem with it.

A

Did somebody like to make a motion? Yes in the matter of z, aap 20-132-006,.

B

Millstone landing appeal: I move that the board of appeals reversed the decision of the planning.

B

Commission made on november 16 2020 delaying the concept plan approved for a proposed convenience.

B

Store fuel sales, canopy and car wash okay, a second and a second, um mr richardson, uh mr mr chairman,.

H

If I could please, since this is a de novo hearing, um in addition to the language about reversing.

H

The the border or the planning commission I'd like to see the motion say we affirmatively, approve.

H

The concept site plan and what about the conditions that were put on it by the.

G

In the first hearing, I believe they had two conditions.

G

That that failed, but it was still with certain conditions. Yes, so we're not we're not nursing.

G

Well, those conditions still apply we're not bound by their conditions again we're a de novo hearing.

H

Zero, um I did not hear any conditions in the motion. I just wanted to make sure.

H

The motion was was properly framed, not only to reverse the planning commission, but also.

H

To approve the concept site plan, I modified the well well before we do the modifications. What.

A

Were the conditions you have to get the minute? I have to get the minutes of that meeting, but.

G

You got it right in front of you, no, that they don't apply at this point no, but they don't.

G

Apply but there was do we want to no, we already said no earlier, okay, why? How do we know they.

G

Don't apply when you don't even know what they are. There's a motion on the floor yeah, but I'm.

G