St. Mary's County, MD Commissioners of St. Mary's County, 2 Mar 2021

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From YouTube: 3/2/21 CSMC Budget Work Session

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A

A

Please come to order and welcome to our budget work session for today march, 2nd 2021.

A

And I'm now going to turn it over to our mr cudmore, who is our.

A

Money, money manager, how's that.

A

Cfo and our assistant, thank you very much, both of you being here today. Thank you very much.

B

I'll take my mask gotta get over here. I know I know, keep getting, looks, that's fine walk into.

B

The microphone all right um well, this is uh we're truly going to start off from last week.

B

And as follow-up is how we're going to go into this and you can see on the agenda.

B

We're starting with follow-up- and we have you- know: health insurance for elected officials, the cip.

B

The emergency services, expansion project, cip, informational sheet on the rack project veterans.

B

Tax credit and then recreation tax and then once we finish all of that we'll go into new info, we'll.

B

Have the the budget revenue summary and detail in the expense summary in detail as it is today.

B

And then we'll start reviewing the board of education budget requests so from there.

B

We'll go ahead and turn to page one, and at this time I'd like to ask catherine to come to the.

B

Front to talk about the retiree health investing. Thank you, catherine. Oh thank you.

C

Good afternoon again, commissioners, good morning kathy good afternoon, catherine good afternoon, yeah.

C

Last week we introduced the topic of changing the, um or at least looking at the vesting for retiree.

C

Health for elected officials and the request was made for a fiscal note. I wanted to provide.

C

An update that bolton has been hired to provide that and they will have that for the commissioners.

C

Next week, what we asked bolton to consider are the to extend the benefit to all local.

C

Saint mary's, county elected officials and you'll see on the memo that that includes 11 positions.

C

Some of them have term limits. Some of them do not. Okay and then questions um for the commissioners.

C

After the meeting last week, the request came up to consider providing a benefit for military service.

C

For opeb vesting- and I don't know if the commissioners want to consider that.

D

I think, since as it was my request, what I want to do is there are two separate issues.

D

At hand here, so I don't want to intertwine the two. The five years of military service.

D

To the vesting schedule is not something new, um it's something that was removed previously by.

D

Boards uh some time ago, so I want to make sure that it's more of a. How do we reinstate.

D

The including the five years military to the investment schedule that was previously removed.

D

Which the state automatically gives you five years into your retirement on the state plan.

D

Once you've reached 10 years of service, so if you have 10 years of service you're vested.

D

You automatically get five extra years of service, so you're technically at 15 years at 10 years,.

D

Right um but and the prior prior elected officials, I think, would would have to be included in this.

D

But I think with the military service, I think it needs another analysis that can be presented.

D

A little bit later in the budget work session when we get to healthcare. Okay, so it'll give you.

D

A little bit more time to figure out the numbers, how many employees that actually affects and.

D

Works with them, because I think it's a significant amount, oh, I think so too yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

E

Just trying to clarification so county employee.

E

Works 20 25 30 years, and they would get the same. Investing after that length of time that.

E

An elected one of these elected officials would get after eight years or twelve years right.

C

Currently elect our elected officials are treated just like county employees, okay, but with the new.

E

Stuff, I guess, is what I'm saying so the so the county employees would have to work two years.

E

For every one year that the elected officials- yes, the proposal is that, um after two terms.

C

The 75 25 and then after three terms, 80 20. right, but I guess my point is- is after eight years you.

E

Can get 75 25 and for a county employee to get to that they've got to be what 25 years.

E

20 years, a county employee after 10 years would get a 21 percent subsidy.

E

Okay, so that's probably pretty dense, pretty close 75 subsidy is, um you know, after.

C

20 years, 20 plus years yeah, the numbers aren't that far off of what reading this year's a.

D

Service counties percentage, retirees percentage, the numbers aren't too far off versus the 10 and.

D

14 year range. Well, I guess what I'm saying is if I'm reading this right, the first column says after.

E

10 years the county employee pays 78.75 right and after 10 years with the elected officials,.

E

They'd be paying 25 percent versus 68. correct, that's the proposal and then when it goes to.

E

15 years they would be paying 57.5 and the account and the elected official would pay 20 correct.

E

This seems generous for the elected officials versus the everyday employee.

E

Secondly, this would be in perpetuity going forward and would we have any retrospect.

E

Going backwards, how far back, if we, if we were to go retrospect, how far are we retroactive and.

C

That's a question for the commissioners: so are prior elected officials going to be considered.

C

Or is this going forward? I think prior elected officials that are still living should be con.

D

Considered I mean if you really look at it. If you go 20 years, I don't think that.

D

You know, unfortunately, we're going to have a large, a large group when it comes down to it.

D

But if they're they are living, then I think they should be included from this group of 11 positions.

D

No, the prior elected officials, maybe 11 plus 11, plus whatever they are, but in other words people.

C

That held these 11 positions. Oh yes! Yes! Yes, as long as they're alive, I guess.

E

Yeah, fourth even won it, so it would include this board whatever it did.

D

uh It would be starting next term, or would it think the next term to include this sport.

D

I guess it would include retroactive yeah. It would eventually fall retroactive, yeah.

D

Just like the the pay would.

F

So I guess the the question on page two are: do we have a consensus from the board about uh the.

F

Two bullets to include five years of military services, one and then to include prior elected.

F

Officials, those are the two directions we need from the board to for an analysis to move forward.

G

I think that when you look at the state plan.

G

Which is what we're trying to compare this to military service is not part of the state.

G

Plan for elected officials- if I remember this terms correctly, it could be, it could be used for.

G

Personnel but elected officials, the way I read, the legislation doesn't include prior military service.

G

So we should try to separate a from b. I believe it does it, because the state retirement system.

D

Does, in fact, no no for elected officials, defense for elected officials, I get I I.

D

Spoke I'm currently dealing with the retirement system and putting together the law enforcement.

D

State pension, as well as the state portion and I've done extensive research on it, especially for.

D

Elected officials in the municipality, so the five years military counts. I've spoken to the benefits.

D

Managers, it doesn't matter whether you're elected or not you're, in the retirement plan, so you get.

D

Those five years, but that point is aside from all of this- this is totally separate. This I'm not even.

D

Looking at the five years military service for um elected officials, I'm really looking at that for.

G

So long, okay, so this is a five-year. Does that go towards health benefit, also, as well as retirement.

A

Yes, I know retirement it does. If you have, if you have no health benefit, though also was a part of.

D

Right and it's a matter of policy at that point, so it goes towards your retirement. Then it's a.

D

Matter of policy, so the state, the state elected officials, they have a five-year in the retirement.

D

Service right, so the question is two-fold: it is so the question at the table. I believe from.

G

Miss prattson is the five-year, including the vesting exposure for the elected people. No, I.

D

Wouldn't I wouldn't do well for as far as medical benefits, I I would say no on in this conversation.

D

Okay, so we just take that off the table, just get off the table and just go with for election.

D

Yeah for elected officials- I do want the research done for employees to see how that would affect it.

D

That's my uh that's my goal because that was taken away a while ago. Okay and that's back.

D

When ten years they were given a hundred percent was that taking away was that taken away at some.

A

Time that do you know, I'd have to go back and look okay, okay, it's it's when they were given.

D

It was during sue sabo's time is that right, yeah and uh I I don't recall which board it is.

D

I had it written down, but they um it's when they were given 100 at like 10 or 12 years. They were.

D

Given 100 of everything, and they were counting the military time into it, so in order to save.

D

Money back then, because the system was going broke, okay, based on 100 investment, they switched the can.

D

We research that find out get some background. What we'll try to find out. I appreciate that all.

A

Changed I remember when it changed. That's going to research that, but right now, as far as this.

A

Right now, let's look at the what we have now mirroring the president elected officials at.

A

The state level to include prior selected elected officials and for us commissioners.

F

This is part of the budget process, and so I think what commissioner o'connor's describing is.

F

During the employee compensation and employment, when we're looking at the health insurance for.

F

Employees, yes right: okay, correct, okay, yep, okay, understand yeah, because the five years count.

D

For the retirement, I think the reason I'm looking at that five-year military thing is right now.

D

Your five years military count towards your retirement, but it doesn't count overall towards.

D

Your medical benefits, so you, you might get your five years, which means you could retire at 20.

D

Instead of 25, but you still have to stay till 25 to get your medical, so it's really.

D

Counterproductive to to have it because you're taking that reduced rate on the medical, because.

D

Technically you're not fully vested in the medical at 25 years. So if you have that military time, then.

D

I want to see what the actual cost is going to be, because if you want to go early at 20, well one it.

D

Is a savings to the plan because you're you're not taking the full amount that you would get at 25.

D

Years, if we're talking about sorp right you're at a reduced rate already and the military accounts.

D

For a portion of it, but either way the point is, I want to see how that can be incorporated.

D

And what the! What? What that's going to look like.

D

Okay with the other commissioners as well that we reach a consensus to gather that data when we get.

H

There so, since we're still looking for additional data, should we pull back the motion that was left.

H

On the table from last week, um motion now there's a motion in a second but it's been tabled. I guess.

E

We can table it's in the next table at the top yeah. It can remain table to the to till we get.

D

All the information, but let me understand this point so I can clarify it in my head.

E

So you have a position, that's not term limited and people run serve two terms as a treasurer two.

E

Terms as a sheriff, those people turn around elect to walk away and do something else. They'll get.

E

These retirement benefits for the rest of their life, or will they wait until their retirement.

E

Age, 62, 65, 66, whatever the new retirement age is, do they get it when they turn that age.

C

So this is another complexity currently, in order to be eligible for retiree health, you.

C

Have to retire yeah. So in your example, if you were an elected official who chose to.

C

Work to to have two terms and then walked away, and you were not eligible to retire.

C

You would not be eligible for retiree health. So again it gets to be the definition of retired.

E

Well, there is no retirement in our position. What'd, you say your term limited there's, no.

E

Retirement well, I agree randy yeah, but but I guess my point gets to be understanding how this works.

E

I mean there's nothing against the younger people, but younger people could be on this thing for 30.

E

40 years right, you know if they got out at 40 or oh you mean if they just pulled.

A

Two, like colvin, pulls two terms and just defeated the third term, so whatever whatever.

E

Officials, if they leave after two terms or leave after a certain amount of time and they're still.

E

In their 40s or something potentially, they could live another 30 to 40 years. I mean.

E

Do we determine this retirement to be retirement age or because you cannot, you know, you've walked.

E

Away from the job, or in our case, you're a term limited, and you can't run again, I think that's.

E

An important distinction because you start doing those kind of benefits of someone who's in their.

E

40S and they live in god, willing till their 70s or 80s. This could be a very expensive proposition.

E

The other thing would be you put an age limit on who can run for county, commissioner. No, they were.

A

60 years old, to run now that, let's not stop that commission that'd be counterintuitive the state's.

A

Doing all these things to us, why can't we do it to ourselves retired what a retired elected official.

E

uh What determines that criteria, and I think aids should be one of them.

C

So we have a call at 2 30 this afternoon with the person who is the benefit administrator.

C

For the state for the elected officials, so more more research is coming yeah. It's.

E

A good thing to find out how they, how they do that and in our current scenario, even if.

C

The commissioners were to change the subsidy at two terms, for example, commissioner colvin would.

C

Not be eligible because of age, and that's our policy, though currently you have to retire in.

C

Order to receive you have to be eligible to retire under the maryland pension or the sorp. In order.

C

To receive retiree health right as our policy, that is our current policy, which can be changed.

D

Is my point so we're not eligible now, but if we're going to be looking at this, that policy.

D

Can be changed by three votes? You better get an actuary to figure that figure yeah well so.

A

See actually, okay at my age now today, I'm 74., you know, god rest is. I can pull eight years and get a.

A

Retirement, if I'm under the state system, I think I've got to go over five years. I get a retirement.

C

Under the state system, um is it 65 or over 65 after 2011 july, 1 2011? It is um normal retirement.

A

Is that I just read the term, I'm sorry, I don't know sorry put the right name down. Yeah.

C

10 years of service and 65. 10 years and 65 right, that's under the state system.

D

Yeah, I think the the big picture that we need to keep in mind here is the the main.

D

Reason for me bringing bringing this forward. um We have. Typically, the commissioners are.

D

Not 30 years old um or 32, I think when I first ran right. It's it's an anomaly.

D

Most of the commissioners that is sat behind here are over the age of 55, 60, retired.

D

Vested someplace else they have medical most of the time, their family's gone. So it's a hard.

D

Decision for somebody to go ahead and say if I'm, a single mother of with two children working here.

D

And I have minimal health care. Do I make that decision to go ahead and run for county office.

D

Knowing that I'm not going to have anything in the long term, leaving where I'm at.

D

But I do want to serve so. The pay was the first step in this for me, where the compensation.

D

Review board said we're going to raise the wages. Well, we don't all agree on here. Some feel that.

D

It's more than enough money, others don't have the the net worth to go ahead and say that.

D

So we have people out there that want to serve that want to dedicate full-time to doing this job.

D

Because while it's technically looked at as a part-time job, you have tuesdays where we're.

D

Visibly out to the public, but really let's covet aside you're, putting a lot of time into this job.

D

A lot of time I mean whether it's driving from north to south and fuel and and coming out of.

D

Your own pocket for the expenses that are there, it's just things that happen with the.

D

Job so- and I don't think any commissioner here puts in for the mileage reimbursement that we.

D

Could put in for for driving all these events? I don't think one. None of us do. I know I don't so.

D

The um that's, those are the unknown costs that come with it. So when it, when it comes down to.

D

A compensation package, a benefits package for to say to the younger generation the.

D

Millennial generation, which, unfortunately, is what can you do for me to a certain extent, but.

D

I want to make sure that when people are looking to run for an elected office in this county, that.

D

It's equitable for them to do so and advantageous for them to do so. I think it's very, very important.

D

We all know that a a wage in medical is is a part of that. So that's why I'm bringing this up.

D

That, if somebody that's in that position, wants to dedicate 12 years of their lives doing this then.

D

There should be there should be something at the end and or they can make that decision, because if.

D

It's just one term and gone so be it if it's two terms, you got to be vested into doing this. The.

D

Money's got to be there and I just think, there's 80. I think this decision affects we have 80 000.

D

Plus registered voters in this county, that's who this affects 80, plus thousand registered voters.

D

Because any one of them can run for this office and any one of them can go ahead and say: well, you.

D

Know what I I could do that now, because it's not going to affect my family in a negative manner. I.

D

Mean I have to work another job, there's no way you could live off of this money, supporting a family.

D

It's tough so and I feel for people out there that are working every day, two jobs so.

D

It's just the way I feel about it, I'm I'm passionate about it. I want to reach out to.

D

More people and get them involved in what we're doing, and I think this is a better way to create.

D

More competition, I think it's a better way to open up the pool. So that's why I'm doing it. I you know.

D

For me, it can take effect for the next board. I don't care, I I mean either way whatever we got.

D

To do to make it so more people have access to to get into this office. Well, let's make sure that we.

E

Understand that if we make it retroactive, it may take effect with the next board, but it's going to.

E

Affect this board too, so what we're doing is is self-serving, in my opinion, while it is important.

E

That we do, we do get good people to run. I think one of the incentives is if you're successful.

E

In running, you do get 85-15, which nobody gives and you do get this opportunity to come in uh required.

E

Monthly or yearly a number of meetings, I think it's 40 or whatever we're required to.

E

To have as far as our meeting schedules, but you know this job's, what you make of it.

E

And, and different ones of us make different things for each individual as they feel comfortable.

E

But the key gets to be. Is this cost? I mean you get someone who, god forbid, eddie bailey wonderful.

E

Man, but he was fighting cancer for the past 20 years and not so much eddie. But anybody who has a.

E

Long-Term debilitating illness- I remember my days on the school board. It was very expensive to keep.

E

Those things going so I can't support something that would benefit me if I'm making the decision.

E

If it makes the decision going forward- and I tend to be part of it- that's a different story because.

E

People have a chance to see if they, but to to do something to make it retroactive. So it includes me.

E

I think it's self-serving, the other part gets to be granted. We do need people to run for these jobs.

E

And it's it's expensive proposition. It takes a lot of time, but it comes with the territory.

E

There's no hidden fees involved in this. We know we got to do so. I I can't support.

E

I can't support giving it below 65 or whatever the state pension recommends.

G

I think from commissioner o'connor's and your point of view. It represents a tool in the toolkit.

G

It's an option: you don't have to take it if you don't want it, it's there. So for commissioner.

G

Guy's point of view my point of view. I got blue cross blue shield. He has champis and tricare.

G

It's an option; it only benefits you if you take it so I mean if, if you don't want it, then you.

D

Can go on the record, saying you don't want it and then it doesn't benefit you. You know it's the same.

D

Thing with thinking pay is too much if you don't want to pay donate it. um It's to me it's more of.

D

An obstacle to some people's ways of serving it is an expensive proposition and not everybody has the.

D

Means to do it, but they have the intelligence, they have the motivation and when they get here, they.

D

Can start to build from there, so I think that giving other people opportunities to do this.

D

Versus you know, unfortunately, how it's been for the last. However many years 20 plus years I mean.

D

It's, uh I think, that's a great thing. I think it's too much located I'd like to also try to find out.

A

When our legislators, the delegates and the senators, when did their program start.

A

That they've got now like and how did it get started? Did they vote on it themselves or yes,.

A

They did yes, okay, but it'd be nice to know when they started this, how long it's been and uh they.

A

Got a lot of people up there that are very young, believe me and it's occurred on a long time. So.

A

uh I think it's a good tool in the toolbox. I gotta admit I don't really personally need it myself, but.

A

uh uh I've to attract other people to uh coming to this job. We need to look at this very seriously.

A

Okay, so we're going to maintain right now the uh motion we had last week, we'll just carry it on.

A

To next we'll get more information but you're going to bring to us the information on cost.

A

Right for next week and more information you're going to gather today when you talk to the state.

A

Yes, uh good good neighbor, probably answers a lot of answers right there. Okay, any other questions.

A

Good moving on, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much all right, commissioners.

B

We're going to turn to page three- and this was the update to the emergency communication center.

B

Expansion project- um I know we have steve walker here and john dietrich and actually.

B

The change biggest change in this project um is the reduction of the contingency. It went to 5.

B

And the project actually has been reduced by 417 450 compared to the version that you saw last week.

B

We do have um more info in here a lot of detail on the breakdown of.

B

The project and I think one of them or is coming up or would you want to come.

I

Probably details from gary okay thanks john, thank you so we're on page three.

B

And um that's where the updated cip sheet is.

J

Good afternoon.

J

So in this package we included an amended cip sheet jen and.

J

Ms cudmore has already reviewed what we changed on that we brought it in line with the cip guidelines.

J

And we also revised the square footage.

J

Unit cost based on going back through the source, which was district 4 looking at.

J

How realistic that was in applying it to this project and adjusted that unit price.

J

Building program summary: that was something we put together our department in order to.

J

Explain each use in the building and- and you can kind of go through that and it's a lot of detail.

J

But it's really critical that all those uses are in.

J

Close proximity uh with each other, especially if the building's locked down or whatever.

J

Risk category table it's really kind of a building permit. So excuse me, john, so what you were talking.

B

About this summary schedule, that's on page five right right and then the risk category uh table.

J

That's page seven uh goes through uh what you need to do to meet the building code requirements.

J

uh Based on given uh risk that a building has to sustain- and this particular one, as you know, is the.

J

Highest category and we there are some photographs of existing workspaces, but we didn't include those.

J

In the package, they basically show how squeezed people are right now, like gerald gardner's, got.

J

Somebody else amy's got to sit in his office, not amy, I'm blanking her name, but.

J

She has to sit in his office, there's no other place for her to sit.

J

They've got plexiglass partitions, but it's pretty cramped and there's no room to spread things.

J

Out, except in the emergency operations center itself, which is really the only conference room.

J

The space needs study was included because we wanted to respond to your request to look to see.

J

What other spaces might be available on campus? It does look like in two years.

J

The old garvey building will be available again. It's not a great place.

J

To put people permanently, but it would be an excellent resource for swing space during.

J

The actual renovation, when we go through all this constructing and deconstructing.

F

And commissioners, the uh proposed-based needs allocation was approved by the commissioners in.

F

July of 20, just about six uh seven months ago, we have a meeting, I think, on friday, to update so we.

F

Look at this based on uh space now about every six months, so we'll bring any updates that.

F

We have as well. I actually just have some questions for mr walker. If he doesn't mind.

I

Yes, sir, so just a question statement one. I know we have a lot of moving parts.

D

And your space needs are going to go through the roof. Okay, so acknowledging that um last.

D

Last budget work session may have been nearsighted to start talking about how we can move people into.

D

One beer one building to other buildings, so I'm going to acknowledge that as well.

D

But the other portion I would like to know here is: is there any particular reason.

D

The design is to build a shell around the building and then take down the walls inside the building.

D

Versus just building a wing out because that's how it's described to us is to we have a building and.

D

We're going to build a building around the building and then work from the inside out.

I

So I'm not sure if there's enough space to build a wing I mean we could try that. But but I can go.

I

Through some of the descriptions, so I mean I think everybody's been into our building and you walk.

I

Into the main hall, and of course, then you go into the communications room off to the right. Is our.

I

Eoc, that's clearly not big enough and we are seeing that even more so in coving, when we're.

I

Trying to do some meetings and we really have a limit of about 12 or 13, I think, is what it is.

I

So one of the one of the issues of that eoc is there's a lot of competition for space. We have.

I

Training sessions we have meetings, we have and we've reduced them, but we still have all these.

I

Different needs for that when we do interviews for new candidates, we do that so there's a lot.

I

Of competing space, so the plan is to push the back wall out to make that bigger. My offices.

I

Which is off of it would go back further, and the admin staff up front would then come in right in.

I

Front of me so that my admin staff would be right next to me and then over in the corner again.

I

The communications personnel meets daily in the eoc, they have no office space, they have no place.

I

To really meet with their personnel supervisors. So if we were to close that building off on the.

I

End then they have an office to do and they have a training room. So that's that end of the building.

I

On the front right as you face it, there's a lot of electrical equipment underneath the ground.

I

And we thought we couldn't build there. We possibly could, but that's quite a more expense to do that.

I

But on the other side of the building, along where the break area is to the right, we talked about.

I

Squaring that off to add additional offices and a training room which then will alleviate.

I

Some of that space need in the eoc, because training room is another meeting room for us.

I

Public works suggested taking the building out to the roadway. That would certainly do it. One of.

I

The things that I would like to have in the front of the building is a an area. That's a secure area.

I

That people come into right now, yeah we let them in, but I need somebody to as a receptionist to sit.

I

There so that's kind of it really in a nutshell, and we could get into a lot deeper, but yeah I mean.

D

That's because that's my question: we're paying a significant amount of money for 2 300 square feet.

D

And if you were to look at that little roadway, that's right there! If you were to come straight.

D

Out I mean you'd get more than 2 000 square feet. I mean, if, if you think about it, actually.

I

I think that's supposed to already be a part of that. That was what public works has suggested.

I

We come out and take some of that roadway right off the bat. I think that was a part of what we.

D

Were discussing last week was was instead of building a shell over a shell, so I'm just trying.

D

To figure out ways to get this cost down, if I know it's got to be hardened, so there's going to be a.

D

Significant cost, but building a building over a building is going to be way more expensive than.

D

Extending out so that's what I'm I mean, we could also take a look at going up. Apparently you know.

I

I've been told by the old-timers that was part of the plan originally uh to maybe go upwards.

I

You know maybe put the admin upstairs. I I mean again, I don't know I'm open to any idea. Certainly.

I

But we certainly, as you said, we're getting ready to continue to do. We need the space I just like.

D

To see more options, maybe is that the way I'm looking at I mean I don't know if that's.

D

This is time sensitive, but I just.

G

Let me ask: what could you do instead of this? What can you use with the backup eoc and then you know.

I

There's some discussion on if ems comes to fruition, that may be used for some of that.

I

uh In the uc we can, we can look down I'm using a specific example, as you have the.

G

Backup, why can we use the backup versus worrying about something that could happen in 10 years?.

I

So in the backup center what's available right now is you have one office? That's very small.

I

That right now is being used for medical supply storage. You have another one, that's a little bit.

I

Bigger that's not being used, then you have another smaller one. That's not being used.

I

And then you have an office, presumably if we ever have to shut down. That's where I will have.

I

To work out of so you have three spaces that can be used. That's it there's nothing else. Everything.

I

Else is being used by dispatch in some way. There's one officer down there that is used for.

I

Civil air patrol communications- it has a lot of equipment in there. We don't use it, but.

I

If everything else fails, that's what that's for that's part of emergency.

I

Management there just isn't. One of the things I had considered is when we need to clean it up a.

I

Bit but I'd like to give a tour to all of you, so you see what exactly what it looks like down there.

I

Because I think that's important, the stairway is crazy. Stairway is crazy. uh There is some plans by.

I

By uh building services to put a new chair, lift, we have a back entrance. That is a bit of a stairwell.

I

But you're right, it's a it's a bit, but again it's an important building because it we have to have.

I

A backup it's protected, it's it's it's good, but you know what we. What are we going to use? There's.

I

A little bit of a space, but not a lot all right. I could probably push two to three people down there.

I

But these plans that we don't have plans on this right. This is for the a and e so.

D

Okay, so this is for the a and e right. This is what right! Okay, so we we can get res. We could redesign.

I

We could do that if you, if you want to do that, is it you redesigners at the firm redesigning.

I

We really, I mean we're just telling you ideas and what we want and we're you know all right so that.

D

Makes a big difference here so when the firm actually comes in for the a e they'll be able.

D

To give you some options that say this is what you can do. This is what you can't do, and those.

D

Will be presented for the final building? Okay, all right! That makes a lot more sense to me than.

D

This it was presented that this is the plan um I'm open to anything. That gives me more space and.

I

More usability, okay, if it goes up if it builds a wing, it doesn't matter as long as we can fit.

I

What we need to do, but there are some very specific needs: okay, all right good and we.

I

Also, you know if you have to have large meetings. You've got the building next door.

G

Because they use that back conference from the chesapeake building at all or the potomac building.

G

The first four in the back uh room, 14., I know what the number is. We have used it on occasion.

G

I don't think that room gets a lot of use, so I'm just providing as an option.

D

I'm just more comfortable knowing this is about in it we're going to get different plans coming back.

D

I I'm more than again I'm open to anything that gives us more usability, so, okay, thank you.

D

Mr walker and commissioners, this is actually um starts. The new funding is in 2023 a year from now.

B

Right, so it's not in the 22, so we have time yeah um the change and update the project. Thank you.

A

Can you ask, mr so commissioners, this is one of your approval points if you're comfortable with.

F

The change in the page number three, the cip sheet, so that finance can move it into the final cip.

F

Draft budget book right- and we also take this- we need it to know the day, so we can take it to.

B

The planning rejection of the 417 thousands on the bed right right right to the clinton we go.

B

To the planning commission on monday night, so we have fun with that. I have no problem.

D

With everybody, fine with it good we're good. Okay, all right! Thank you! So with that we will go to.

B

We will go to, I think page 10.

B

Page 10 is the one. The one page update that talks about.

B

um The rack project that was requested from commissioner um o'connor last week.

F

And commissioners will make this available as a single sheet as well.

F

So you can use this for promotional opportunities.

F

Thank you so, once this place is built, we'll be able to make charcuterie boards like on that.

H

Picture, yes, you will? Oh yes, they will yes they're teaching kitchen, they will. They were very good.

B

That's very nice yeah, so your question on this one was is still going forth with the 2.7 million and.

E

Was there a question on this? Was there a question on this one good right? This project is in here.

B

It's on page 29 of last week's package, page 29, and it's uh totaling right now about 2.7.

B

Million dollars, so there is no question right. There's no decision point for today.

A

Thank you just information, just information. Thank you.

B

All right, we will move forward and it looks like we're. Looking at page 11.

B

And this is follow-up to the property tax credits that were for veterans.

B

From last week, we've brought you back more information, and I believe neil is here. Neil.

F

Yep we'll check and see if he's outside is miss kelly here here he is no she's, not here.

K

Welcome, thank you and everybody all right. So we'll start on page 11.. We brought back.

B

A number of things for you, based on what the information we provided. This is the veterans.

B

Ordinance from anne arundel county- and this is based on.

B

The 9.9-265, the estimate is up to on our calculation last week, was the 1.5 million dollars.

B

So I think anne arundel counties is the only county. That's now adopted at new credit.

B

So that's on page 11 12 through 14.

B

Okay, then, on page 15 we go into the updated memo from legal, which is.

B

Goes over in more detail of what was presented last week and that's starting on page 15..

E

Some big numbers here- yes, yes, yes in 816, 000. right and um I wanted to say that you got that.

E

20 cents on the end, yeah every little bit helps I'm with you. I agree, finance officer. Thank you.

H

Now was this the same one that last week the treasurer said she would need an additional.

H

Person, if implemented, also right, yes, if we were to add these additional credits, yes,.

B

She would need help if we added all of them right and we would have to get more info from her. But.

B

I mean she would probably need help because they're looking in detail at each individual in.

B

Person to determine um what is the best credit for the citizen right and there's a lot of.

B

Work to it and it's pretty much a full-time job, probably looking at each determining with that.

E

Said that's what people have said to me right now. I know there's at least two, if not three.

E

And you can only take advantage of one and the question gets to be which one's the best one for.

E

Me mike- and I said I don't know you have to who do you go- ask the treasurer's office? Okay, so they.

E

Should be able to do an analysis for these people, they will look at all the individuals, information.

B

What's on the application that they file, what you know and what they provide to the treasurer's.

B

Office to help in calculating- and it also looks at their individual circumstances- okay so and they do.

A

That now, with the senior tax credit, there's like three different ones and correct, you only choose.

A

One right, this will be four right. This will be three right. We have a senior tax credit we cap and.

B

Then we have them won a matching senior tax credit and of course, then we have um the local, the.

B

The tax for the um homestead homeowners, tax credit and the 6510 tax credit, which is um the one for.

B

Veterans right now that we do have do we know what a new another employee plus benefits will.

E

Cost to solve the treasures, I think it was about 70 000. I think the the number with fully loaded.

B

Position and commissioner hewitt that's on the bottom of page 20 and it is 70 000. just cut more.

K

And also to clarify right now, while there are two tax credits, one of them is an entire exemption, so.

K

They're exempt from paying taxes, so it's uh it's not really, which one is better than the other. It's.

K

If you qualify for the exemption, you're, obviously going to take the exemption, because then you have.

K

To get property taxes at all, whereas the 65 10 is just a ten percent credit right. So but these.

K

Ones, that's that's uh jeanette's point is that they're to because there would be additional.

K

Considerations we would need to, or the treasurer's office would need, a third person or an extra.

K

Person, sorry, my my question here is: uh I'm reading the ordinance right, the amended ordinance? Why.

D

Where do we get the age 65 for the surviving member? uh That's from the statute itself right.

D

Okay, so you have to from the actual statute right. So that's exactly right! So there's.

K

A surviving spouse who's over 65 and then there's a surviving spouse who's under 65.

K

But that would be for somebody who's active duty and has a permanent non-permanent disability. So.

K

There's two different two different types of surviving spouses right. So that's what.

D

I want to make sure, because it's our the way this draft ordinance is written. It says.

D

It I don't see it, but it doesn't have the under. Oh, it's it's in letter e, so eligible individual.

K

Would be so the draft ordinance page 23 for the record would be under section 276.

K

76, subsection, a is definitions right and then subsection 2 is eligible individual and then.

K

All the way at the bottom would be a surviving spouse. An individual described under item d.

K

Which would be an individual's active duty, retired or honorably discharged.

K

So that means they don't have to be. uh There's no age limit for the for that thing. Yeah. That's.

D

You know they come if somebody comes back for sure. Absolutely you know they're married, you know some.

D

Of these 20 years right, some of these injuries that are coming or and and diseases are not 100.

D

You're not going to make it to 65 right. I mean 74 now and he's lucky because he was over in vietnam.

D

You know I mean I don't get no credit yet. No. I know I make too much money yeah here. It is.

A

It's high pay, I get, are you? Are you 74 today 74 today, yeah happy happy, you dealt with all the.

D

Age and orange and everything right yep, so I mean that's anyway, I got 25 disabilities. All I got yeah.

G

I don't qualify for anything. There were 12 questions. How many tax credits can you keep giving.

G

At the end of the day, we managed to find more and more tax credits along the way the loss of revenue.

G

And the other side you're going to make up that revenue somewhere with all the other demands. As.

G

I said earlier, you know the the gist of it. Here is over two million dollars in tax credits, and I mean.

G

We we are, people may not like this, we're the most generous kind in the state when it comes to giving.

G

Tax credits and we've said that and done the analysis for seven or eight years right now,.

G

Exactly and I don't see how you can just keep piling more credits on, because once you get.

G

The credit you got to make up the revenue on the other side of the street there's just no.

G

Other mathematical way to get there this, we can't be annapolis, and you know this is not.

G

A this is a forced air, not an unforced air. This is not a. This is not a we were to. This is not a.

G

This isn't something annapolis is pushing down on us. This is something we have to adopt and.

G

Make a decision to make a forced air, an unforced air for the amount of money and recognizing what.

G

The demand is on the system right now and we'll be on the system going into the future. That's.

G

Sorry, just that's just the business financial side of it with trying to.

G

Remove the emotion what yeah well what's the posterior, but I would say this.

E

uh It's more about what are we fixing by doing this, we have two already who's being left behind.

E

By those two, are we taking a a group? That's not cannot take advantage of the existing ones.

E

Well, I would say: yes, if you read over them, because every single applicable answer every.

D

Single applicable one is for seniors or 40 years in the county or a certain amount of time right.

A

Right now, the tax credits we have right now for real estate is, is for elderly correct. The only.

A

Thing we have for veterans if you're 100, disabled yeah 100 anything. We have right now. 100 percent.

D

And permanent 100 and permit correct who's left out is that where we have 100 percent, we do have.

B

The maryland homeowners property tax credit, which does not have um that, doesn't not pertain to age.

B

At all, that's really a sliding scale based on income yeah. It's the homestead basic income right.

A

And the senior tax credits we have now are also based on income, income and age right.

B

For the income, each right- yes- and this would be income and your percentage of how you got.

D

Messed up in the military right now, all this right here you got right now is just based on.

A

Income also for the there's, an income stipulation yeah, there's an income less. You have to make less.

D

Than a hundred thousand it's so there is income bracket, illness and disability percentage great.

A

As uh as determined by the va yeah, so my question would be is I I think if there's a phased-in way.

D

Of doing this versus going all in to see see how it is that that would be more so where I would go.

D

Is you know the limiting factor if you're looking at 50, okay, that's 75 to 99, but you can? If I'm.

D

Correct you can add two, but you can't take away. So if you want to give everybody that is 50 to 99 25.

D

Would you be able to do that because you can give up to 50.

D

For the rest, so if we said we don't want to get 50, we want to do 25 for 75 to 99. I see what you mean.

B

So the percentages that are in here now, neil, I think, that's based on what was the legislation had.

B

Defined so your question is: can you for those 75 to 99 just do 25 percent, basically reverse.

K

The numbers well yeah, keep it keep it at 25 for both groups right from 50 percent to 99 25.

D

Is that 50 absolute? I think that number comes from the statute statutes.

K

Yeah, I think it actually describes it as is equal to 50. I don't think that it's an up to, but I can.

K

Double check, but I'm I'm pretty certain that it's 50 that it's maybe not negotiable. At that point,.

G

And if I remember correctly, while I was enabling legislation, the only county took advantage of.

G

This is anne arundel. At this time that's correct. I haven't heard of any in the mako discussions. I.

G

Haven't heard anybody have you jumping up and down for this, I'm the only one who jumps them down for.

A

Any tax credits, if you haven't heard I'm the only one out of 24 jurisdictions that will stand up and.

A

Fight for veterans, okay, the 24 jurisdictions just said silence. Well, nobody else. 23.

D

Where nobody else really wants to do it, it was a fight to get the the first.

A

Okay, commission, what else do we need uh to even look at this any further? We.

A

Need anything more information from uh staff here before we uh well, I mean the.

D

The question is so we can't say 25 percent you're, saying no. We can't change. The percentage could be.

K

Less than it has to be 50, that's my understanding, but I can double check within five minutes.

K

But actually, I might even be able to check on my phone well, you know what that that's illogical.

D

You know why, because if, if you've, if you're 75 to 99, that means you're already 50 to 74.

D

So you'd be eligible for the 25 percent. Oh true, so I answered my own question, so you don't have.

D

To worry about changing the percentage, because you already fall into that percentage group.

D

If you're, if you're there, you just don't offer the 50 you're off for the 25, so I I want to.

D

Know what if it was 25 versus the 50 and the 25? What would the impact be? The financial impact.

B

We would have to come back with that, so I think we're starting to talk about numbers.

K

Yeah we're getting into millions of dollars. This is real money. This is, I want to know just okay.

K

So I the way that I did it uh is on page 20, and there are a couple of assumptions that had to be.

K

Made the way that the veterans administration does their uh divides up, um disability rating is by for.

K

On the digits of 10, rather than the half digits, so I'm not why annapolis chose to do it. 75 to 99.

K

Or 25 to 74, I'm not entirely sure they don't they don't do it like that. So that's right.

K

Because it doesn't, it makes it slightly complicated because you're unable to track the.

K

Actual numbers as easily so you kind of have to make estimates, but on page 20.

K

uh There describes the number of veterans that have a certain disability range and.

K

I did 50 to 60. because I was the closest to um that. I could get to 50 to 74 and then, which.

K

Slightly underestimates it obviously and then 888 for 70 to 90, which overestimates slightly.

K

So then, in each one it shows the number of people or the amount that would be expended for the 25.

K

It would be 419 000 and then for the 70 to 90, which would include the 99.

K

Because it's inclusive would be 1.1 basically, so we're at 1.5 million.

G

For this amendment, that's right! Yes! Well, if you know, because you calculated 50 percent.

D

Yeah it's a 50 tax bracket, so I mean, if you actually did 682 and 888 the total of those two.

D

At 25, you're, probably gonna be you're going to be below a million yeah the, but the the.

K

I guess the important part is that it's probably a lot connected, we're assuming.

A

Too, that we're not we're not sure how this assumption that all these veterans are less.

A

Than a hundred thousand dollars, that's exactly: are they actually going to apply.

G

That's right, this future carries forward. Yeah right, I think that's, that's the big. The key.

D

Factor is the the hundred thousand dollars right and uh can we change that hundred and say to.

A

Seventy five thousand or under so the way that the qualified statute is written, is a hundred thousand.

K

um There may be additional criteria that could be added, but that's just that's how the statute's.

K

Written yeah so to the commissioner's points is that it is both commissioner o'connor as.

K

Well, as commissioner guy and christian morgan, um it is a high higher estimate than would be.

K

It's probably it's less realistic because there's not nothing. I don't know how many actually make a.

A

Hundred thousand dollars yeah makes more than hundred thousand and they're. The numbers are.

K

Slightly off, but it's just to sort of give you an idea is the best that we could come up with with.

K

The limited and sometimes data that we have you've got you've got here, numbers you have 682 and 888.

A

Is there any way to find out the income range of those people is that? Is it possible.

A

Do we know that that's going to be tough yeah, I'm not sure yeah yeah, it's going to be tough to find.

D

Out the income, but I mean we had to do the same thing with the senior tax credits, but be because.

D

Of the size of the number, what we're not pressed on time for this ordinance are we miss government.

B

We would need to take it to our public hearing or another public hearing prior to um so it would.

B

Really be, we would really need to have it for the recommended budget to be included in the april of.

D

Course, public hearing my point is, is that we could set this to the side to have you. Do the math on 25.

D

Of the total number um to give us the hard number on what that would be right.

B

Yes, correct, I mean I don't want to do the math sitting here and have the wrong number is my.

D

Point you know and there there needs to be a skew for the hundred thousand dollars. So I don't know.

D

How you do that? But if you can compare it to other things, because what this really affects.

D

Is the veterans that you know they're receiving the disability, payment and they're working a job.

D

And they're not making that much money, but that's what what it affects so right. There's two points.

G

I think first of all, it doesn't have to be taken. We don't have to do it this year, correct because.

G

It's there b. We have no idea what's coming down the road or what we're. As I said this.

G

One we're down 10 million going in my guess, close enough, I mean fall apart. We added this.

G

Being down 10 or whatever it is add, another million they're down 11. and you got annapolis.

G

Coming down the road with who knows whatever and you gotta figure out how to balance a budget by.

G

You know the end of april may I mean the other option is to look at the tax credits that we.

D

Already get find the one that is not being used as much remove that tax credit and replace it with.

D

This one or a combination thereof. Well, if you look at the one on the page 20 from last week,.

B

We're using all the credits yeah where you sell the credits up there, everybody's using something.

B

So the one credit, the um the tax property uh subsection 9-258- is actually increasing. The.

B

Eligibility to the existing credit that we have the 6510 and that one does cost about 272 000.

F

And that's summarized on page 21, where it's adding that that extension.

F

Right you're describing exactly so that's the one that we're currently doing.

B

And they've provided um an extension.

D

Now right, I also think there's two ways to look at this, which is the negative side or the pessimistic.

D

Side but then the optimistic side, because if you tell a veteran, that's making less money that they.

D

Can buy a home and their mortgage is actually going to be lower because they're not having.

D

To pay all those tax rates, they're actually going to buy a home whether that home is a 300 000 home.

D

Or 200 000 home, you also have the ability to say: hey, you're, going to use your va home loan.

D

Which you're guaranteed pretty much to get? If you have that, plus the tax incentive helps so our.

D

Housing market's booming, so this is an opportunity to buy a home with a lower.

D

Mortgage which can fit into their actual earnings bracket so versus when we look at it. That way, if.

D

We get rid of and I don't want to be flipping about the number. Let's say it's: six hundred.

D

Thousand dollars, what's going to be the turn or return on that investment into our housing.

D

Market, you know that and how many of these veterans actually even own a home right now.

D

So we're looking at this number 888, but do they own a home? Are they renting because there's 888.

D

Veterans in the county, but I know that there's a ton that that rent, so how do we bracket this.

D

Number down that that that number is is skewed, so I think there needs to be some more drilling down.

D

Into this and see what the return on investment is for these types of credits and for the record, I am.

D

A disabled veteran, but this does not affect me in any way whatsoever, so it doesn't affect me either.

D

Just uh because it was mentioned last time, so I just want to make sure for the record.

A

That, and I know we're talking about the article 9-265 authorizing us to do this. I wonder if we.

A

Were are we held totally to the bill and the article as far as the amount of the gross income.

K

The agi is not less than or not more than a hundred thousand dollars. I know.

A

But can can we adjust the agi even down further, oh as as as a county government.

A

All right we held liable to the 9-265 as far as holding it. A hundred thousand.

A

hmm That have to be checked, that's good. I guess the old can you add to but not take.

D

Away right, yeah, yeah, well, the gist of it is if, when you add through ad number, three.

G

Nine section 9-265, you basically double the tax credit in the county. It's that simple.

G

You're right well and that's that's awesome revenue it has to emit you have to make it.

G

Up somewhere, well, you don't double anything. I think that's an unfair argument. You know when.

D

It comes to numbers I'll agree, but when you can't use 888 because not all 888 actually own a home.

D

I mean that's, that's not a fair number, so you have to look at it from a different perspective, but I.

D

Think that we would have to check and see what the veterans administration or who would have.

D

That information, if we can drill down any further, they would have it um the veterans, administration.

D

Would have it so I think it just needs some more research sure, but it's worth delving into.

B

Okay and then, of course, that other credit, that's the extension of the 6510 that we have.

B

um That detail again is on page 15, where it extends the eligibility to military personnel.

B

Under the age of 65, with a service connected disability who are active duty, retired arnold.

B

Discharged members of the uniformed services surviving spouses who have.

B

A service service-connected, disability they're also under the age of 65, and have not remarried.

B

um And a surviving spouse, who is at least 65 years old and has not remarried.

B

So that expands the current credit that we already have and that one costs 272 000. yeah.

D

Well, either way, I think, there's some more research that just needs to be done.

D

If you could do that, bring it back to see what we got get a more realistic number, not 888, because.

K

Right, unfortunately, the way that the legislature decided to break it up and the way that the data.

K

Is the number of assumptions that had to be made because the I got the my information from the.

K

Veterans, administration, the state or the federal, the u.s veterans. Oh you gotta call the state.

D

um Okay, you gotta call the state veterans; they they, they got all the information. Okay, sure.

D

I'll give them right check with secretary orange office up in annapolis and see if he can supply.

A

That information, certainly we'll do. Thank you appreciate it. Thank you so for now, commissioners.

F

It's safe to say no direction on the veterans. Disability tax credit will bring back additional.

F

Information right all righty yeah, the state fair. Of course that will be follow-up next week. Okay,.

B

Okay. Thank you all. Thank you, neil, my pleasure all right. Commissioners, um more follow-up on page 25.

B

On the recordation tax for fire and rescue that have been paid over the years, I received the.

B

Information from the deputy clerk of the court and the listing on page 25 is all the different.

B

um Loans and fire and rescues that have been applied for and it actually goes back, there's.

B

One from 2001 and it totals um two hundred and fifteen thousand eight hundred and sixteen dollars.

H

So if you were to provide credits back right and we have the ability to provide this back.

H

To these departments, we can cut checks to each one of these. Yes that so this came up in second.

H

District, I said that's great, oh yeah, that's all I was saying when we brought it up the first time.

D

I mean so this came up when second district for anyone watching when they reached out.

H

To me, because of their 84 000 recreation tax bill, and so I brought it up and it wasn't the right.

H

Time- and I do want to thank the commissioners because I think now is the right time.

H

um For entertaining this motion, but I want to make the motion that we return.

H

The 215 816 dollars from recreation tax to the various departments that have paid second.

E

Discussion. Thank you very much because because I never had a problem with the 84 000.

E

It was always the fairness to the other. People have already paid it. So thank you for doing.

E

This research, and I'm all about giving it back, but the thing gets to me- is that going forward.

E

I think what would be important is if these people knew they didn't have to pay this.

E

Their loans wouldn't be as high, therefore, their repayment wouldn't be as much so it's one thing.

E

To say, hey, look by the way you made the loan, uh here's your 84 back. Maybe they have something.

E

They need right, but the more responsible way to do it would be to say you're, not you're, not going to.

E

Be subject to this tax, so the key there gets to be whether or not annapolis can change the law.

H

Because I don't know that we can change the law, but we can put the policy in effect, we would.

B

Have to get the um the recordation tax ordinance amended. Well I mean, is it also just that or if.

D

Their tax exempt should they be paying it anyway, I mean, if they're already a tax-exempt organization.

B

We have to look at the ordinance right because the ordinance that the clerk's office has the.

B

Ordinance and they're, the ones that are applying. What's in the ordinance to what they're collecting.

B

Well, the recordation tax only uh applies to private loans, it has nothing to do with loans.

A

From the county or state it's just private loans that they have right county property. You need.

A

Legislation to change that ruling is probably the thing, but we should pool yeah we'll we'll pull.

B

That ordinance and we'll review it, I'm sorry we'll pull the ordinance and review it with legal and.

B

See how it can be corrected going forward again, what can we do locally and what we need help on if.

E

We need to go to annapolis correct, but I think the key we all understand these volunteer departments.

E

We want them to succeed, yes, so whatever we can do to help them uh yeah we're we're all for that.

E

I think we're all for that. Commissioner, I mean uh the thing of it is now. We need to look at.

E

What law needs to be changed? Tell me, though, on recreation taxes does that go towards project open.

E

Space funding- or I thought it did there- is there it's it's split into um it's like four dollars per.

B

500 dollars of value that four dollars is split. 3.65 goes to the general fund.

B

And then .35 is actually dedicated to aglian preservation projects. Okay, so I would. I would.

B

Say that we would take this out of the general fund portion and not impact? No, I understand, but.

E

Let's understand what the impact would be is if we took it out of the project open space, because.

E

Is that by law we have to fund that project opens? That's a part of. I think your latest.

B

um Version of your recreation tax and you were able to do that- I don't think that required.

B

Legislation that was a designation made by the commissioners again when we're taking it. You know.

E

If we're going into general fund, hey, look, I'm all about getting right back.

E

But if it's going into project open space, we need to know the impacts. If we're not going to be put.

E

In there anymore right, and that would just impact your funding to the aglan preservation projects.

B

Because we could use that money towards their project as a funding source all right. Well, you.

E

Have a motion in a second commissioner president: uh we were looking at this one more discussion.

A

We got anybody looking at this as far as changing the law, I thought we last time we talked about.

A

That the general assembly we did we wanted them to do that. Is that being done now, do we know.

F

So I think you're right and I know neil's not here but I'll- check on legislative update on that.

F

Know where we are right, I got you for for future years. Yeah. Yes,.

B

All righty well, thank you and we'll get with legal and review the ordinance.

A

Okay, right now we have a motion. A second two. Would you please read that to me sure it was.

F

Reimburse the recreation tax of the 215 816 to the various departments, as described on page 25.,.

A

And we have a first second, all in favor, aye.

A

Looks like eyes got it 100. Thank you very much all righty all right now we're on to going into stuff.

B

Right yay so we're on page 26, okay, so this is like. I guess this is kind of updated from what you saw.

B

Last week we reviewed um this shows you that currently, your general fund revenues is at 263.

B

Million to 610 dollars and 705., okay, which is fifteen thousand three sixty um fifteen.

B

Million three hundred and sixty thousand over and above your recurring revenue in 2021., okay,.

B

So it's a 6.2 percent increase and then on the bottom of the page you can see that the 263.

B

Compared to the current expense baseline that we have in our budget of 252 974 leaves you excess.

B

Revenue over your expense, so this is right now before you look at any new initiatives, you have.

B

The 10.6 million to use okay, all right, that's based on our latest revenue project. Excuse me.

A

That is based on what that is based on our current baseline expenses that we currently.

B

Have no new initiatives, you know where we get to and look at all the eccs on the request over.

B

And above what the baseline is, the baseline is currently what they had and approved in fy 2021.

K

With some cost changes: okay, okay, so you're starting off with you, have 10.6 available.

B

Then we go into page 27.. This is all your detail: revenue, okay and it's broken out by your property.

B

Taxes, income, taxes, other taxes licenses and permits charges for services on page 28.

B

And there's the detail of your um we'll bring back the detail of the grants when we come back um at a.

B

Future budget work session with we have the the grants match that we'll update all right page.

B

30 we're getting into expenses now this is your summary sheet that is consistent on how we have.

B

Showed it in past years, where we start off, and we show in summary version um your fy 2020 actual.

B

Starting, on the left hand, side your actually, your approved fy 2021.

B

Then we go into what your baseline is and that baseline is broken out and again it's consistent.

B

With what you're recurring is for each of your departments that were approved in your 2021.

B

Okay and actually, if you look at the approved 2021 and look at the fy 22 baseline, probably the.

B

Difference is about a million bucks or so a lot of some. It does remove the non-recurring items.

B

That might have been in your fy2021, then your next column is your fy 2022 ecc request those.

B

Are your new initiatives? Okay and you can see at the bottom, it totals 19.3 million dollars. Okay,.

B

The next column is county administrator recommended ecc. Yes, we only have one item.

B

In there right now, we'll plan on doing more and looking at different um recommendations.

B

But the one item that's included right now is the year three, the final year of your.

B

Approved um county compensation- and that was about a million twenty four for the county.

B

Employees that adjustment going forward won't be making. We won't have the makeup to make.

E

Anymore, as far as the county, employees are right, we'll be at a parity level right that was based.

B

On a study that was done like three years ago, it was like an increase of a roughly it's like a 3.71.

B

Increase for three years in a row um which brings us closer to parity with the other jurisdictions.

B

Okay and then by adding that million 24, you can see that um we come now too. So as any eccs are.

B

Increased or approved by you it includes it, brings the total over. It takes the baseline.

B

Adds whatever ecc is approved and gives you the recommended or the budget at this point? Okay,.

B

So you can see at the bottom when we add it, it brings you to 253 million 998, 188, okay and then, if.

B

You take the revenue, that's on page on the prior page, that difference is now 9.6 million dollars.

B

And then you'll remember also back in december for informational purposes. We calculated how much the.

B

County merit in county cola would be it's a one percent cola, plus the merit increase of um it'd, be.

B

About a million 170 and then that brings you down to um 8.4 million dollars available. Okay, so as we.

B

Move forward and we start making decisions um that difference will be whittled down until, of course,.

B

When we get to march, 31st or 30 have to look at the calendar and we have to be balanced. Okay, so.

B

This is really the beginning of the operating and decisions that we're starting to make.

B

The blue items that are on here are items of interest. Of course, I already talked about the year.

B

Three, the other items that are on here, which we'll be talking in about shortly, will be the board of.

B

Education, they are actually the first um of the different groups that we'll be talking about.

B

And you can see that they're um requesting 6.4 million of recurring funding in 1.9, almost 2.

B

Million for non-recurring items, which totals about 8.4 million okay. So then, on page 31 we go.

B

Forward- and this is all the detail- expenses by department- by division by type of cost.

E

Let me ask a question: maybe we'll get it later, do we know if the legislature's decided to make the.

E

Board of education's whole across the state going to get to that during the birth of discussion.

G

Not done yet what'd, you say it's not done yet so that decision hadn't been made, we're going to.

G

Yeah, we can discuss it later as part of the berfa. The budget, reconciliation, finance act, okay, okay,.

B

Okay, thank you, then, starting on page 46 jody's going to go over this, but this is.

B

um Consistent in what you saw last year, also, this is our essential cost changes, spreadsheet.

B

And it breaks down each of the essential cost changes so before I continue jodi you better.

B

Take over because I'll just keep talking go ahead. um Well, this spreadsheet is very similar to what.

L

Jeanette went over on page 30, so I won't go in too much detail. It is broken out by department.

L

Division and state agency is the sort order of this same columns as on page 30, the approved.

L

Budget and then the baseline, which is your 2021, approved minus non-recurring items plus any cost.

L

Adjustments, the difference here is we detail out the essential cost change request and if.

L

That essential cost change request has an effect on fte, we'll put that in the fte column and then.

L

Over to the right, we'll add the description of the cost and then each week when we go over the.

L

Department or the agency we'll highlight those in blue and this worksheet goes from page 46 to 56.

L

So if you'd like to turn to page 55, we can go with the board of ad right behind these pages.

L

The board of ed has submitted three essential cost changes. The first one is on page 57, which.

L

Is 5.9 million for the negotiated agreements? The second item for 519 000 is on page 58.

L

And the third request is a non-recurring cost of just shy of 2 million on page 59.

L

And at this time, I'd like to invite somebody from the board of ed to join us at the table.

H

Anybody anybody so we're looking at pages, 57, 58 59. Yes, that's correct! It begins on page 57.

F

And superintendent smith is making his way to the table good afternoon welcome good afternoon.

M

Before we begin to unpack specific things and talk through the request, if you'd indulge me, I.

M

Did prepare uh just a little bit that I wanted to say to all of you before we start? That's that's.

M

Okay, it should be just it takes a minute or two you're gonna, be like one of your graduation speech.

D

It probably it'll be as short as it's a one-pager. I like it. Okay, let me begin by thanking the.

M

Commissioners for allowing us to present today to present at the beginning of the annual process of.

M

Understanding the needs of our community, as well as the resources available to meet them.

M

This is a complex process and I don't envy the decisions you must make. You often have to weigh.

M

One need against another. We are in historic times when seemingly unsolvable problems face us every.

M

Day and yet the citizens of saint mary's county have shown themselves to be the truest leaders.

M

Drawing together to find common sense solutions and always navigating a path forward before the.

M

Commissioners, this afternoon is a request for an increase in local funding of 6.4 million dollars.

M

To meet your school system's recurring needs. These additional funds will go to honor the.

M

Second year of our four-year negotiated agreement for our teachers and support staff, this includes.

M

A merit step and a 1.75 salary scale adjustment. Our negotiated agreements reflect our commitment.

M

To and respect for the people who work every day on behalf of our students, given the incredible.

M

Stress the pandemic has placed on our students and staff and school system. We must have competitive.

M

Compensation to keep the most talented people, both inside and outside, supporting our classrooms, the.

M

Budget also includes funds to cover incremental increases in health care and operational costs.

M

Both of which are substantially under market averages, this is due to the engaged and informed.

M

Employees, dedication to efficiency and shared responsibility. Finally, before our commissioners.

M

Is a request for additional funding for our bus contractors, so they can better compensate drivers.

M

In attendance, who make sure our students get to school and back home safely each day.

M

In troubled times, nothing can be taken for granted and we are grateful for all of the support. Smcps.

M

Has received from our commissioners our community, our partners and, quite importantly, our parents,.

M

The smcps 2020 bottom line operating budget represents a one percent increase over the 2021.

M

Bottom line operating budget and has no new positions, no new programs and no new.

M

Initiatives, sorry, no new positions, no programs and no new initiatives, and so with that, I.

M

Would I'm available to answer any questions you may have about our request before you.

G

Commissioners, so I'll start.

G

So, what's inflation been in the last three or four years I off the top of my head? It has been.

M

uh Very low, like one and a half percent sure thank you yet when I look at your.

G

Negotiated agreement you're looking for a four and a quarter percent.

G

Two and a half first step and one and three quarters for a cost of living adjustment.

G

Right, so, even so, without the step, the cost of living adjustment still exceeds rate of inflation.

M

And my counter to that would be that you engaged in a compensation study for your employees. Several.

M

Years ago- and you are uh before us- you've already implemented the year three, which is a 3.71 percent.

M

Market adjustment, a 1 cola and a 2.5 uh step- that's 7.2 percent! You anticipate giving that to.

M

Your employees, this year, you gave it to them last year and you gave it to them the year before that.

M

You also addressed the sheriff's office corrections staff, giving them a 16 percent.

M

Increase last year in the sheriff's office, almost a 23 percent increase. Yes, the negotiated agreement.

M

Does include a step and a 1.75 salary scale adjustment, I I guess I would just say cautiously.

D

Is that this also, these salary scale adjustment happened after the negotiated agreement with your.

D

Salary scale adjustment, so there, when your salary scale got adjusted, there was significant increases.

D

For their pay as well, the timing is different, but you know it did happen that way. So ours happened.

D

Later yours happened earlier tomato tomato, it all happened. The salary scale adjustments went there.

D

So I'm not um arguing your point, I'm just saying all the scales we're adjusting absolutely because.

M

We we all have incredible employees who are helping us get through the most difficult times.

M

And we need to make sure that they're compensated in such a fashion that they stay with us.

G

I don't decide, I think, you're right. We have to work on compensation.

G

And compensation health care are two: the biggest criteria to have any workforce stay stable and.

G

If we look at kerwin, which you know was the legislature over veto, overran the governor's veto.

G

Right and we are one of two or three counties- I think in the state that meet kerwin at the present.

G

Time absolutely so we are so to say, we have not supported education and funded education based.

G

On even the statistics occur when we're doing pretty good, you will have no objection from me and.

G

Then I go down the berfa so forever understands the birth which commissioner hewitt brought up.

G

Burfa is a pending legislation in annapolis, called the budget, reconciliation and finance act.

G

And I sit on the education subcommittee at mako this year, in addition to the tax committee.

G

And what the berfa basically says is we realize that schools have been harmed due to covet.

G

And what we want to do is hold schools harmless for the pain that you have endured.

G

For the lack of the number of students you have lost during the year.

G

Due to them either being homeschooled going to private schools or whatever, it is along the way.

G

So the berfa basically sits there and says is we will hold the public schools harmless.

G

For this year, as long as you give them, maintenance of effort, plus a dollar.

G

And the massive effort plus the dollar is then going to translate backwards to.

G

A mathematical equation that sits here and says I have lost in your case 500 students plus or minus.

G

Something about right, so you're, going to take your net number of students today and divide that into.

G

The maintenance of effort that exists today, plus one dollar and you will get a cost per student and.

G

We'll call it x the problem that mako is having with the berfa is that it just doesn't stop at x.

G

It goes into year two and in year, two with the burfa sits there and says, is that we will take.

G

We will assume next year that students come back to school and let's say you pick up your 500 again.

G

And then, when it sits there and says you will then take your net cost per student from the.

G

Year before and then make that a incred additive to your maintenance of effort. So if the let's just.

G

Say for the sake of discussion that the cost was ten thousand dollars a student, and you pick up.

G

Five, you get 500 students back. That would mean that the mainstream ever costs next year will.

G

Increase by five million dollars based upon the way the law is being constructed now.

G

Which things that we can give you maintenance of efforts, they plus a dollar to get the get.

G

The perfect credit, but next year you will come back and ask for five million dollars, plus the.

G

Negotiated degree and everything else on top of that, and I'm just struggling, you know with the and.

G

I'm not blaming you because you're not writing the law. Lord knows no and the law is being written, but.

G

It's the board here who has to accept what the law will be at the end of the day. Absolutely- and I was.

G

Looking for a sheet that I got from mako last year, which we can't seem to find right now on how many.

G

Counties last year went with maintenance of effort.

G

And, ironically, I believe we're one of the few counties that exceeded means of effort on a.

G

Scale across the board, so when I look at you know the math you've done, I.

G

I'll give tammy credit, I mean geez, you know you sat down and calculated that we would have.

G

By giving our pay raise, we have eight million four hundred forty two thousand five hundred seventeen.

G

Dollars left over and you asked for eight nine four hundred seventy three thousand five hundred.

G

Ninety seven dollars, you're up by thirty five thousand bucks, generous man generous. Thank you.

G

So I I mean I'm just I'm asking the questions today, based upon what you're, asking for and.

G

Understand the needs and the requirements out there and I understand everybody else's- needs.

G

That are coming in with you know, everybody else's budgets and, as I've always said for 11 years,.

G

Everyone has to be treated fairly, whether it be the sheriff whether it be you guys, whether it be.

G

County employees, it has to be fair across the board right and.

G

Right now, I'm just trying I'm trying to understand fair with the fact that you want eight million.

G

Dollars the sheriff wants seven million dollars so on and so forth across the board I mean.

G

There's a pile of requests, we got, I mean it's just it's amazing. You know when we have covid.

G

The the revenues we are not sure about this time, we're not sure yet about what annapolis is going.

G

To instill upon us, I mean we found a way to tax. The internet now, to you know, generate.

G

Some revenue along the way, and that again is you know neither here nor there, but it's still.

G

A matter of our discussion on where's the money going to come from and how you're going to pay.

G

The bill and, as I said this morning, there's going to be pain, felt across the board for everybody.

G

And I don't, I don't see any other way around, not having I mean I don't have an answer today. I just.

G

Know I'm very concerned with the burfa says I am concerned with the funding of kerwin. I am.

G

Concerned with the inflationary, the negotiated agreements um and just sort of to say, and it's.

G

Just not the board of ed it's! You know the one big bucket that the five us get to deal with.

M

And and I I absolutely appreciate that I will tell you and we need to be on the record.

M

The all the discussions that are that are going on about holding harmless uh that reflects perhaps.

M

Conversations in other counties not down here, you have funded above maintenance of effort every.

M

Single year that I have taken the seat and we've engaged in our conversations, you have made sure.

M

Each year after perhaps sometimes bruising budget conversations that we have enough compensation.

M

To honor any negotiated agreement that we entered into with our staff, our teachers every single year.

M

And support staff have received their negotiated steps and colas per the agreements that were set.

M

Forth by the board of education- and we absolutely positively could not do that without your direct.

M

Partnership and support what you have before you this year is what it's going to cost.

M

For us to be able to do that, is there an opportunity to go back and forth and figure.

M

Things out, are we still getting information about what money may come down from the state.

M

You know those numbers evolve as they go through as they go through everything. I will tell you this.

M

With kerwin um not looking forward to it, I think that the one thing we do know is that kerwin is.

M

Not necessarily going to compel the state your agencies to reconsider the way in which you're.

M

Funding as long as you are already in a position where you are adequately funding your school.

M

System which you have been, which is why we find ourselves in the position that we're in today.

M

I will also say that you are a conservative, deliberative body of people.

M

You have set forth that we will have 15 million dollars worth of recurring revenue coming in next.

M

Year and you've predicated that on a three percent growth on income tax, even though there is a.

M

Six year average at five and a half percent and is coming in well above that this year,.

M

I understand the importance of doing that, especially since we don't know what comes next.

M

But I will tell you that the greatest investment you can make in a county is in people is in your.

M

People in your people, in the sheriff's people in the health department, in the emergency management.

M

Services and in your public schools, you've got an incredible school system, and you see this. You saw.

M

This morning that you've got a school system that works with your sheriff's department and.

M

With your health officer and does incredible things for all all levels of the constituency.

M

I can also tell you that today we had the second day with all of our kids in.

M

Other counties they might be talking about kids being back in school, we have head start.

M

Kids to seniors everybody was in school today. Any child that wanted to attend in person has.

M

The opportunity to intend in person in st mary's county and you've done so without a great deal of.

M

Strife you've done so without people protesting or picketing, because we have collaboratively worked.

M

All the way through- and you have absolutely supported us all the way through and finding.

M

The resources to be able to safely open school, including having a health department that worked.

M

Proactively with us so that every single one of your teachers was vaccinated before the kids came.

M

Into the building- and I just want to applaud- and thank you for that- I know this is going to be a.

M

Long budget session, I know we're going to have moments when you won't take my phone calls.

M

Perhaps I won't take your phone calls, but at the end, every single year we've been able to get there.

M

We need to be able to get there this year for our people, because our people really deserve it. They.

M

Have been working so very hard, and I know you have everybody. That's come before. You've said.

M

The same thing because they really are doing it, so um I hear everything you're saying I present.

M

The budget as as is presented we're going to have more information as we go you're going to.

M

Have more information as we go? We understand that you have to balance and make some very challenging.

M

Decisions um I exist and continue to uh be in the seat, your faithful servant ever and I thank.

M

You for the time and the opportunity to go first so well, I would say this: I agree with you that.

D

Our human resources are the most valuable we've had this conversation multiple times, so I do.

D

Agree with that, um I can tell schools back in not only because it's occupied, but because of.

D

The speeding cars um that I see everywhere with young drivers, so um that's that's, definitely.

D

There you could notice the difference on the commute this morning. um Of course, they always.

D

Need to slow down, but absolutely who does when you're, that young and that's it. um You know I've.

D

Never had a problem with you answering the phone, even after uh we've gone back to our.

D

Moments, yes, yeah, so I I I'd say that it's always been a great working relationship. The thing that.

D

Always seems to be the impediment, is we always get to the end result and the boards always voted.

D

The way we voted with all five commissioners supporting the school system, I think the.

D

Problem we have is the misinterpretation of the budget work session and, unfortunately, the union.

D

Coming in, none of us can control that message. uh It's unfortunate we're going to have disagreements.

D

We're going to go back and forth we're going to say things and have hard words whatever you want.

D

To call it, but the fact is, I don't think anybody up here doesn't support and that's the message I.

D

Want to make sure I got ahead of this time. Is that we're working together, regardless of what you see.

D

Here it's just a part of the process and that's all it is so there's no negative connotation.

D

Towards the the staff at the schools, the teachers or anybody else, so I don't want.

D

That to be misconstrued in our statements and especially mine, because I'm especially special at.

D

Ticking off the teachers, so I have my own little niche for that and uh you know it it's just the.

D

Way it is, but I I just it's nothing personal, so I support what they do and I do thank them. Thank you.

A

Any other questions, commissioners, not at this time, I got a few sure tell me.

E

Moe through the state is determined by the number of children, yeah yeah, so we've seen.

E

Different numbers, as to the number of kids who aren't attending this year over last year,.

E

And that number has been 521 or 457 or or 10 19, but then we get the immunization.

E

Waivers then we bring in another 300., it's all over the board, how many kids less this year.

E

Than last year, so for the documents that you have in front of you, you show a reduction of 783.

M

Employee students that would be counting for um for uh per pupil allocation. Okay, seven seven.

E

Hundred and eighty three 103 is your calculation. Yes, then, you had from last year. Yes, yeah, okay,.

E

That's a more than a total elementary school. If I got down absolutely okay, so the state.

E

Gives you so much per per child? How much is that so um I I don't. I don't have the total off the top.

M

Of my head, but what the state has done is they have given us? They have brought funding forward.

M

That says that the amount of money that that we got last year in total, regardless of your.

M

Enrollment, that's the level of funding that we're receiving this year for the state's holding, so the.

M

State so the state portion, they've already told us they've come forward and they've said they're.

M

Going to hold hold harmless now all the wrangling back and forth with kerwin and where that all ends.

M

Up that that still hasn't been all determined as of yet but the state has simply said for the 2022.

M

Budget year we are not going to be, and I assume they're going to just um not have a ppa.

M

Calculation and I and I'm assuming that when they get done with iran, I have seen I have.

M

Seen calculations where they want to do a rolling average for three years back and.

M

One year forecast and average it all out and and again it it's a great deal of it. The state.

M

Is absolutely formally formula formula driven and then there's multipliers for economically.

M

Disadvantaged kids and ell kids, especially there's a whole bunch of elements to that in in our county.

M

It really comes down to you know. What is the money that's needed to meet the needs from.

M

Year to year and that's why, although we talk about maintenance of effort, that really has never been.

M

The thing that has driven your decision-making with us and you've always funded us above it.

M

So really what you you know what you see before you is what you see before you I I would imagine.

M

That, before we get done with everything, we'd want to have something in writing that would protect.

M

Your interest against seeing a gigantic bill come back to you because, although we might be 783, kids.

M

Fewer attending school, nobody left the county, they are all here and we have over 1800 students who.

M

Are their parents have elected to homeschool them so we're not receiving any funding for them?.

M

They're homeschooling them completely outside of the school system. There's every indication that if.

M

Next year we are able to provide them a virtual school that they may enroll their children in.

M

Saint mary's county public schools and have an all-virtual attendance option which would swell.

M

Our enrollment even beyond what we see here today, so I I think that there's there's there's so much.

M

There's so much uncertainty, that's moving forward, and I will tell you that um if anybody looks.

M

To annapolis or the federal government to solve problems, um you're going to be sorely disappointed.

M

If everybody just would have taken a year off, um we'd be better off for it. We could.

A

Yeah you've got to close everything down, send all your teachers home no pay yeah. Well, I'm.

M

Saying if everybody just shut everything down in annapolis, if the legislative, if the legislature.

M

Didn't happen for a year, I think we'd, I think we'd figure it all out um and uh new year's would be.

M

Optimal, I mean yeah, that's um you know, that's where we are. I know that this year was supposed.

M

To be the year that they were gonna strip down, and they wouldn't consider anything that hadn't.

M

Been you know put in earlier and of course that is absolutely not what and what happened.

M

Your I heard your update this morning, you're following a handful of very close bills to you.

M

There are over 175 education bills that absolutely are going to roll through and.

M

All of them have implications for what other people have to after oh yeah, so I you know, I.

M

I we're going to wait and see what they what they do, but I will tell you that it won't have.

M

Any impact on on on our relationship, because it's really just going to be.

A

I do have a question about all the money that we've now spent the last past year, especially on.

A

Getting the infrastructure put in place for internet access et cetera, do you see a larger.

A

Impact you just mentioned about 1800 possible yeah. uh So do you see another department coming in your.

A

Educational system for virtual learning- I do and and I mean and a lot of people just keep their.

A

Kids at home I mean I got a niece, that's a senior at uh leonardtown who's, a straight a student yeah.

A

She could care less by going back to school or not right and I'm maybe she's still home.

A

But if she went back or not yeah, but uh she was like she didn't really care. She went back to not.

A

She was doing fine yeah because she was able to adopt that computer and at home learning.

A

And she's done well yeah, and uh so do you see? Do you see a possible change? I mean. Would this be.

A

Cost effective to have more virtual learning. Oh absolutely, and I think it'll it'll it'll um be a.

M

Much larger conversation when we're talking like this this year, we were supposed to be bringing in.

M

An outside consultant to talk about redistricting and how we balance things, because we don't. We.

M

Don't have a middle school or a high school on the horizon, and and both our middle schools and high.

M

Schools are middle schools, in particular they're they're, rated capacity and they're running fine.

M

In the high school there's, so we were supposed to do a study anyway. I think there's every indication.

M

That, when we get to the other side of this they're, going to be a lot of people who opt to.

M

Non-Traditionally attend secondary schools.

M

Or only come in a couple of days a week or come to one center and get all their instruction there.

M

On one hand, it's it's going to be very unsettling because it'll be new, but on the other hand it I.

M

Think it will be a a great way to deliver service to people who don't necessarily want to attend a.

M

Traditional comprehensive high school or middle school, so, dr smith, right now um it's fitting you.

H

Would come the week that all the students have the ability to go back to school time to um how.

H

Many students opted to go back in, do you know percentage, because my sister tells me in her.

H

Class, it's about 20 yeah! Well so, and that might be what she's looking at so um 100 of kids right.

M

uh About between 70 and 75 of students said they wanted to come back to school, all right, so you've.

M

Got about 75, let's say 70 for simple math, 70 70 of kids said they want to come back to school.

M

And then we divide them in half by hybrid, so it's 35 and 35.. So if you have a class of you.

M

Know, 30 kids you're down to 20, then you're down to 10, and I will tell you that the last week in.

M

Particular this week, it's it's building. um There are several people who kind of waited it out.

M

Their parents, the kids, said they were coming back and they haven't come back. We you know we have. I.

M

Mean we'll tell you right now: I have 98 attendance with our instructional staff, so they're all there.

M

um Our schools we're going to wait to the end of the week and I'm going to see what the attendance.

M

Numbers are, but it definitely looks like some kids are going to we're waiting to see what.

M

The first couple of days look like they're still attending online. We now have four attendance codes.

M

There's in person there's in-person virtual meaning they were supposed to be in person, but.

M

They chose not to and they and they were absent or there's virtual straight virtual. They were.

M

Going to be virtual, they're, virtual or absent, they didn't, they were supposed to be there. They were.

M

Virtual, they didn't log in at all. So now we have four new apps absentee codes that we're tracking.

M

So yeah, I think it's interesting, though, with the the learning system, we come sort of full circle. If.

D

You remember back well years ago, you know you'd get out of school early because you had to farm.

D

Right and and you you didn't go to school every single day of the week, and especially during.

D

Time to pull the crops in and now right, you're, always virtual learning in the technological age.

D

Yeah and uh you can go to school and maybe come in one or two days a week and you get the rest.

D

Of the virtual yeah and you could be doing your vocational or farming or it's just interesting.

M

The implications for the career technology, education program and internships are are really.

M

I mean they're and a lot of those they're. All the kids are back in because they just they've.

M

Been itching to get back and actually put their hands on things and be involved, but um the the.

M

Thought for next year being able to have them come in for a period of time and then work.

M

Independently in internships or apprenticeships and out in the workforce, and then do virtual.

M

Check-In is I mean that's all this stuff's kind of exciting, believe it or not. This is actually.

M

If you can get aside from all the stress and trauma that's going on uh this, is this: may.

M

Very well be the most transformative time public education has ever seen in the united states. Now.

A

There's something else going on after this, too talking about additional funding for summer time.

A

Yeah because of the huge failure rate in some school systems, and so I'm just wondering how.

A

How are we doing and right now and looking at our students? Are they making the grade or yeah.

A

Are we gonna have a large uh well we're gonna, we're definitely gonna have a lot of kids.

M

Accessing a summer program, okay, but I don't know why annapolis is taking this up at all sr2 the.

M

Second s or two grants this gigantic sum of money has already been allocated to school systems and.

M

That money is specifically for summer programming, so they're talking about I'm not saying, there's.

A

Been yeah? Oh! No! No! No! But I understand more money coming, but they're, but they're talking about.

M

Securing more state money when we don't need it, we have federal money. It's already been allocated.

M

Right it's over 11 million dollars for the school system, we're going to have the most robust.

M

Summer programs that we've ever had in the county- and it's not going to cost you any money, it's not.

M

Going to cost the state any money, it's already in the buckets of trillions of dollars that the.

M

Federal government has next question: is: are you going to have the employees coming back to do this.

A

I believe so because most of teachers are going to sign up, for I I believe so well I mean we have.

M

Again, we have our teachers, our teachers are back in school and they really want to work with kids.

M

And they want to make sure the kids are successful. So I think they're going to sign on for summer and.

M

It's also an opportunity for them to make 30 an hour extra money. Sure which is yeah. Does it affect.

M

Transportation, we're gonna it for with 11 million dollars for summer school. We're going to have.

M

We're going to be able to pay for transportation throughout the entire summer, so our contractors.

M

Are going to make additional money as well as well as our drivers, because they're going to be driving.

M

Kids, all through the summer, so there will be an opportunity for everybody to kind of write bubble.

M

For you know, uh lost funds over the last year, okay to get us exciting times. Okay, let me get.

E

Back to you, you're down 718 kids, now, whatever that number was, I think he said 783. I thought he said.

E

Well, it said I I wrote down 718. youth. Is it 783 now that's what I heard it's it's from. It's.

M

From your, I went with what you've what you've presented in your it's in your world, I'm trying.

E

To build a budget, I'm trying to understand so you one time we talked about you could have a drop in.

E

State moe of 2.5 million, which could drop you down to about 104 right because they were 106 and some.

E

Change and you're no longer, anticipating that we, the original proposed budget in december, has been.

M

Amended to reflect the fact that the state held us harmless and put that money back in okay. So what.

E

You'll have is this many less children, but you'll be getting the same money if you have yes, okay now.

E

The next thing is you're asking the county to come up with another, oh about six million or so.

E

Additional over the 109 right, we gave you last year, so that's you want us to go to about 116.

E

Yeah, I mean I thought yeah and then the state will be at 106.

E

And the county will be at 116. and you get 783 or 18 or whatever. The number is less. Kids now have.

E

You looked at when you say student enrollment. What we've seen over the last several pre-coveted years.

E

Was enrollment was pretty flat? Yes, it tended, maybe maybe a hundred, if that, but usually in the double.

E

Digits not triple, and so the point was his enrollment was flat, so someone could say why.

E

Is enrollment flat if we had live births six years ago of, for instance, a hundred kids, six.

E

Years later we should have 100 kids going in kindergarten or first grade or whatever.

E

Grade of going but we're not getting it so the point is where they're going is they're going.

E

To parochial, yes, they are come to home, but I think the homeschooling is getting a little tough.

E

Especially if someone needs to telework, right and and that environment, so what I'm going with this.

E

Is to say that you lost kids, you said you lost 200 kids in kindergarten alone, because kindergarteners.

E

Didn't do well for virtual learning. Is that true, more or less people did not enroll their.

M

Children in kindergarten and what you're doing is you're expecting them next year to get them.

E

Absolutely, but can you say what happened? Why are these parochial schools who have been going the.

E

Whole year, right and haven't had to deal with the virtual and the stuff that public has to do.

E

It just my opinion. My opinion is their enrollment's going up and the good news.

E

Is hey? Look people pay that people send their kids to parochial schools, private schools they're still.

E

Paying their school tax they're still getting that school tax right, so the next thing gets to be.

E

There's no there's nothing in here about your fund balance going forward. uh We've got eight months.

E

Of this year, under under our belt now- and you just started in school right learning again,.

E

Now you don't put any numbers in there for what you project to be a fund balance.

E

Do you project the fund balance this year? We will have funds coming back to the system.

M

Quite probably, through healthcare rebates, we don't know what those rebates will be, but we know that.

M

We will have health care rebates as you'll have health care rebates. We are following and tracking.

M

All of our expenses this year, although we have had an interrupted in-person schooling, we have.

M

Carried all the costs because we didn't shut down buildings, we didn't lay off staff, we kept paying.

M

Everybody through this entire time period, not one person, has.

M

As missed payment or employment, they've been able to maintain and work with us so.

M

We will be able to forecast a little bit better as we as we move into the fourth.

M

Quarter of the year where we are we're up and chances are before we get to the end of this.

M

If we anticipate fund balance being available, then we would put it towards non-recurring expenses.

M

In the 2022 school year, so as of right now in the proposal that you see before us, we ask you for.

M

Two million dollars worth of your fund balance in all likelihood. If, if we look like we're going.

M

To project a similar fund balance, then we could uh assume that cost, because the one thing we do.

M

Know is that technology costs money, technology is disposable or at least children treated as.

M

Disposable, so we are going to be spending money um for technology replacement for the 2022 2020.

M

School year, okay, so you don't anticipate using any of your fund balance for this year coming up so.

M

Right now we are using every single bit of our unallocated fund balance. This year we only had.

E

80 000 undersigned: you had 16 16 million, of which you assigned turn around what signed. 12 million.

E

Or so yeah I mean I, I think we you got it it's, whether it's assigned or unassigned and.

E

Of course, oh no, no, we I mean we could I mean we could talk through the fund balance. I mean you.

M

Know so we set aside a larger amount of money for our health care call because we just didn't know.

M

um It's I mean it is it's broken out. I could have miss mccourt come out and speak to it specifically.

M

um And we did this budget that we're currently, in the reason why it's only a one percent increase.

M

But it's six million dollar ask to you. Is that in this budget we're using six million dollars worth.

M

Of fund balance left over from last year so that money is allocated um and we'll get to the end.

E

Of you, you increase your health care call by 2.6 million. Absolutely because, because we just didn't.

M

Know because we only put as a placeholder a five percent growth in health care, and we didn't know.

M

Where we'd end up, we had money left over in health care because, of course, people weren't going out to.

M

They weren't receiving services, they weren't receiving medical treatments, they weren't doing.

M

The scheduled things that they needed to do so we put more money aside because we.

M

Certainly didn't want to end up at the end of the year saying we're going to miss our call.

M

As of right now, we've been tracking our health care as you've been tracking your health care.

M

We are we're a little over, but we're within where we think we'll be um we're gonna, be I.

M

Think we're gonna we're gonna end up in in good shape, um certainly as we get closer into the.

M

Fourth quarter: we can come back and and speak very detailedly about that and any kind of an update.

M

You would like to have on that and a breakout. We would be more than happy to send that over.

E

Well, I think what what I'm saying is your your health care call could be reduced. I.

M

Belie, I believe, at the end of this year, if we, if we have a successful year and we get to that- that.

M

Is something that could be? That could be exactly it's a factor. I don't think we need to carry 6.6.

M

Million dollars, whatever we have in our current call. Well, let me touch the touchy subject: okay,.

E

When you have 718 or 83 or whatever the number of less kids right, it's reasonable to think. If.

E

You have one teacher for every 25 children right, there's potential for 30, less teachers.

E

There 25 to 30 less teachers, but have you seen any savings and instructional salaries well and.

M

Absolutely not because what what we've been compelled to do is actually.

M

Take our 30 kids and one teacher teaching, 30 kids can't teach 30 kids anymore. It's got to be broken.

M

Up into two different sections and oftentimes in two different spaces, so we are absolutely using.

M

All of all of the staff that we have, I do believe that the students are going to come roaring back.

M

In for next year, but if they don't, what we'll end up, having is we'll have slightly reduced.

M

Class size, so instead of 27 kids in a classroom, we might only have 24 spread across the system. That's.

M

Kind of where we are that's why this whole idea of a ppe year to year one kid comes in you, get.

M

Six thousand dollars, one kid leaves you take six thousand dollars back it. Doesn't it doesn't really.

M

Ever work out like that to scale for very large systems for a howard county or a montgomery county.

M

At that level, I guess they can they. They have such large numbers that they're working with.

M

That that really they can make those shifts, but as we get smaller and smaller every it's, it's so much.

M

More difficult to do, we have not cut, we have not cut staff, we haven't talked about cutting staff.

M

um Within the budget, that's before you, if you were to um go with maintenance of effort.

M

We would have to talk about cutting staff. Well, that's what I guess I would. I would.

E

Ask is that you could show us at some point in time what a budget would look like with.

E

The maintenance and effort- oh sure I mean we we could we could. We could certainly do that.

M

And I'm sure you'll make it a blood bath for well I mean no, I mean it would be literally. It would be.

M

No, we wouldn't do that. I'm not saying that! No, we wouldn't do it. What we show you is that what we'd.

M

Have to what we'd have to how many positions we would have to reduce to meet that budget as set.

M

Forward so um that's I mean that's what that's what we could present for you. I don't think that.

M

I mean I as an exercise sure we could do that. Do I think for one second, that you would ever.

M

Cut the school budget when we weren't looking at some kind of a cliff for revenue coming in.

M

And things like that, that's I mean that's, that's just something that would obviously get people.

M

On facebook, commissioner, o'connor and we'd, be you know, we again would be feeding that that.

M

Angst machine, um but I I you know I we we didn't, we never considered that we never considered that.

E

But again I think you need to understand. I think commission morgan made the point.

E

You know there's only so much money to be had and it's like you're asking for all of it and.

E

And there's nobody for nothing for anybody else: okay! Well, I'm going to go back and say.

M

I'm glad you came first 15 million worth of new recording recurring money, we're asking for 6.4.

M

Okay, so that's that's a little! That's like 36 percent of all the new revenue coming in no.

E

We're talking 8 million in new revenue, 8 million is, is, after you factor in your market adjustment.

M

And your stepping cola for your staff and some other things, as well as um some of the the.

M

Bond financing money that there's there's a lot there's a lot to unpack. You have over 15 million.

M

Dollars worth of new revenue coming in based on a very conservative, three percent income.

M

Tax increase, if you actually do your pro forma that you currently are, you probably have.

M

Over 20 million dollars worth of new money, we are asking for more than we are owed more than you are.

M

Obligated to give us, um but it is an appropriate portion of new revenue coming. What do you mean.

E

You're owed more than you're we're out beginning. What do you mean by that? You would be funding.

M

Us more than we are owed, we are maintenance of effort is what you're out of maintenance.

E

Of effort is what you're is what we are owed. Yes, yes, and we are asking for more than we are.

M

Owed and we and I I up front, I want to make sure that everybody understands that. Well, I think.

D

I think one vernacular is very careful here and last year I I found it and I went back, but nobody.

D

Maintenance of effort would be the funding level. That is there in order to maintain what you have.

D

Right, no maintenance of effort is a per-pupil calculation based on enrollment, regardless of.

M

What your operational cost? Okay, all right, so it would and it works out to be a.

M

Budget cut and it would have been a budget cut last year. It would be a budget cut this year, so.

D

This is, and but this is excluding um steps, colas and everything with the maintenance of effort.

M

Yeah well, there's there is no maintenance of maintenance of effort is flat funding so.

M

Maintenance, that's that's my point. Yeah. Definitely, if it's flat funded, you don't have to cut anything.

M

Well, assuming that everything stays the same, that you're, that your healthcare doesn't go up and your.

M

Operational costs don't go up and your children's needs don't go up and your technology resources.

M

Don't go up it's flat funding and, as far as I know, I've never seen a flat funded budget in st mary's.

M

County history, no, but my the reason I'm I'm making. That point is because when we use terms of cut the.

D

Budget we have proposed budgets just like the sheriff's office is asking for a proposed budget.

D

Of 6 million, so I would expect that when they come in they're not going to say, if we don't give them.

D

6 million we're cutting their budget because cutting the budget is saying we're going to.

D

Cut your already existing funding, that is your budget. This is a budget request, so if we want.

D

To cut the budget request, that's a different term than cutting the budget. Yes, oh absolutely because.

D

What what happens in the newspapers and what happens every place else is the commissioner said.

D

They're going to cut our budget, no, no, no we're not! We have one where we can't right maintenance.

D

Of effort is maintenance of effort flat funding. We can't go below that. There's a difference between.

D

That and cutting a budget request absolutely so. I want to be clear this year, because last year.

D

I watched it, go woof yeah off the page and and I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa we're not.

D

Cutting a budget right, you know, and it's the same thing if, if the sheriff's office has 36 million.

D

And they're asking for six and they walk out of here with 36 their budget's flat.

D

It's the same: they didn't get a budget cut, that their request just didn't get met, but.

D

I think it's important that we're very clear on those words, but.

D

Absolutely to your health care point, I think it's very cautious and it's probably wise and.

D

While I would like to see them, of course, I would love to see that money be.

D

Used elsewhere, you can't the reason I don't think you can is looking at the pool. If I'm looking at.

D

The pool from the health care side that I deal with um on the legit board, we are preparing for.

D

The inevitable the inevitable being covet's going to get lifted right there and the people are going.

D

To start going to the doctor in record numbers: yes, all the procedures that have been extended.

D

Out that didn't fall within that renewal, where we were able to get 550 000 of credits back if.

D

Not more is not going to be there because we're going to have, and basically the plan.

D

Is going to overperform and we're going to we're going to be looking at? Oh, how do we handle this.

D

So that money is being set inside looking at the investments, what's the return on those investments.

D

How are we going to do this? How is it going to affect the pool so, while you're setting that.

D

Money aside, I think it's even though it's out of this fy I I do see why that would be logical to do.

D

Based on the fact that if your plan gets wrecked as soon as people come out of kovat you're going.

D

To be in a bad place, well, the last thing I'd want to do is have to come before you within a budget.

M

Cycle and tell you that I do not have enough money to meet my health care, nor my payroll yeah. I think.

A

That would be good. I remember that happening about yeah, yes, seven or eight years ago and politely.

M

That's how you got me. It was very, very bad that was very badly yes, yes, we all do very bad. That's.

M

That's how you people make mistakes, that's how you got me so um you know so, and I'm glad to be here.

M

Anything else, gentlemen: I think we were going to be happy patient watch the berfa watch, annapolis.

G

You realize this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint. Absolutely absolutely. Thank you, dr smith.

A

Very good, thank you very good at presentation, appreciate it and again as you as you go,.

M

Forward, please work through uh you know, with ms cudmore and with the court any information.

M

That you need from us any clarification we will. We will gladly uh provide and anything anything.

M

That you're looking for you know, we want to make sure that we have an absolute understanding of.

M

Where we are and why we're asking for what we're asking? Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

We don't have any decisions on this right now today. Do we no no just any direction you wanted.

B

To provide to us we would take if not, we will take it at another time when you're ready to.

B

Make direction yeah I'd like to see a little bit more roll out of? What's coming with this.

E

Stimulus money got an email that we could get 22 million dollars and if we did obviously.

E

Some of this you know non-reoccurring costs could be picked up over there.

E

Okay, let's wait until a little bit more. This onion gets unpeeled sure absolutely well. Commissioners,.

B

That's all I have to present to you today. I thank you for approving the cip changes.

B

Those changes will now be taken to the planning commission on monday night, okay, and also we will.

B

Start um processing the reimbursement of the recreation tax to the fire and rescue we'll.

B

Also be reviewing the recreation tax ordinance to see where that can be amended and work with legal.

B

And then we'll come back with more info on the retiree health for elected officials for other.

B

Employees, and also on more info on the veterans- disability, tax, credit. You know when you send out.

D

That reimbursement check can you include a letter from the commissioners of some sort um sure you.

D

Know like the commissioners voted on it, the state and time there's the you know. This is why you're.

D

Getting they're going to be picked up, they're paying attention well either way, just so they can.

D

They can have it, so it's not like a check in the mail right. We'll ask commissioner guy to draft to.

F

Sign something not a problem, I'll draft a letter. Thank you, have all the commissioners sign. It.

D

Or I'll sign it, that's right. They have written documentation beyond the video.

D

In the future that this uh this did exist for recreation they can, they can present it.

A

And we're hoping that our delegation will change the law, so we don't have to.

A

Charge them anymore right right, so we'll have to amend the ordinances.

A

Right yeah, we did, but they were too interested in changing. We had a legal analysis.

A

Whether it's state or local, that's what janet's describing right so we'll follow up on that we'll.

B

Find okay appreciate it, what needs to be done and what the next steps are appreciate. That.

A

All right so two things taking back is health insurance, elected officials and veterans tax credit. Yes, we'll bring those back as follow-up and then next week, next tuesday.

B

Every week you know we'll be talking about the follow-up in the elected official request. Okay,.

A

Anything else, commissioners, to give to our cfo or.

A

Thank you all very much, and uh this closes our budget work session for march 2nd. Thank.

A

A