St. Mary's County, MD Planning Commission for St. Mary's County, 17 May 2021

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From YouTube: 5/17/21 Planning Commission for St. Mary's County

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Good evening, I'd like to welcome everybody to the may 17th meeting of the saint mary's.

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County planning, commission, our meeting is being recorded for the public record. Any comments made.

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By anyone present must be recorded as part of the record. That also goes for anybody testifying.

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Either over the phone or internet, therefore, if you have anything to say, you must come up to.

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One of the microphones provided or when given testimony online or on your telephone, give us.

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Your name followed by your statement. Your comments cannot be recorded and placed in.

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The record, unless they are done in this fashion, you are to direct your statements, questions and.

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Responses to the board only and we will direct them to the appropriate person for an answer.

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Please keep your comments to three minutes or less anyone testifying or asking questions during our.

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Public hearings will will be required to take an oath, and we thank you for your cooperation.

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On our agenda this evening, we only have one item for a public meeting that would be for concept.

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Site plan number two: zero 20-132-0011 for bretton bay brewery. The owners is david and jada stuckert.

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And they are requesting a review of a concept site plan for 3 360 square foot, farm brewery. After that.

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We'll have any other developments that have come up, followed by a german at this time, I'll let the.

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Board members that are all sitting here tonight, plus plus one uh introduced themselves at this.

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Time kim summers, patty robreck, howard thompson, joe van kirk, merle evans and joe vazquez, and we also.

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Have mr joe sinclair here an alternate taking on a seventh seat um from land use and growth.

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Management, we have our director, mr bill hunt. uh Our plan president. Yes, thank you. I forgot about.

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That delay um the director of land use and growth management. Mr bill hunt, our planner is brandi.

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Glenn our planner three is courtney jenkins, and our administrative coordinator is kathy garcia.

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Our video media producer is amy carter from the county attorney's office. We have mr dave weiskoff.

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County attorney and neil murphy, our deputy county attorney, um just seeing who else we have? We do.

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Have the applicant here also their representative uh chris longmore, from duggan mckissick and.

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Lawmore and mr wayne hunt from little silence rests, I believe, that's everybody in the room. Okay,.

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Since we have announced the case, we'll go start right in on the evening at this time, I'll ask.

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Anybody in this room that's going to be testifying and um let's see what mr hunt, um mr mrs stuckert.

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And then I'll ask anybody else during public testimony I'll swear them in at one at a time.

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But if you all could um could or would raise your right hand at this time and I'll give you the oath.

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Do you declare in the firm, under the penalty of perjury, that testimony.

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Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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Okay. Thank you oh good, to see you good to see you, mr home and mr mrs stuckett everybody's here.

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Okay, we'll go ahead and start it off with staff, um and you want to go ahead.

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And everybody can see that yes, okay, can everybody see that out there? No, yes, computer world.

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Yes, yeah, we can see it. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you. Chris.

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Yeah, oh claire, okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay,.

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This case was continued from the february 22nd um 2021 meeting agenda item. One is concept site plan.

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20-132-0011 bretton bay brewing the concept site plan seeks approval for a 3, 360 square foot farm.

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Brewery the site is located at 40140 wathen road in leonardtown, the land uses rural preservation.

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The zoning is rural preservation, district.

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Use 12c farm brewery a facility operated under a class 8 farm brewery license.

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May include an area or separate facilities for product sampling.

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Incidental administrative office functions incidental retail sales of beer and related.

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Promotional items, promotional events held pursuant to a permit from the comptroller.

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And kitchen facilities for preparing and serving food pursuant to the license.

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The rural preservation districts are intended to foster agricultural forestry and mineral resource.

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Extraction and aquaculture uses and protect the land base necessary to support these activities.

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Low density residential development in this type of district is permitted subject to.

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Performance standards that maintain the rural character of the district in recognition.

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Of the fact that a full range of public facilities is not provided or planned, the general intent of.

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The district is to encourage farming without undue burden on the landowner. The public notice.

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For the planning commission, public hearing was published in the enterprise on february 5th.

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And february 12 2021., the property has been posted in accordance with czo requirements, section.

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21.3.3 certified mail receipts have been received and have been entered into the.

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Record of this public hearing, as exhibit 1., the agenda was posted on the website on may 11, 2021.

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The concept site plan was reviewed at the tec meeting held on july 22 2020.

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Farm brewery is a permitted use in the rpd site plan. Approval is required.

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For all non-residential and multi-family residential projects that require major site.

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Plan approval, a concept site plan shall first be approved by the planning commission before the.

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Major slight plan may be processed for approval by the planning director. This is a public hearing.

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Which enables all who wish to provide information to the planning commission in order to approve the.

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Concept site plan, the planning commission shall make the findings that the proposed development.

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Is consistent with the comprehensive plan and applicable functional plans.

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May be served by adequate public facilities, as required by section 70.2.2.

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Will promote the health and safety health, safety and welfare of the general public.

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Adequately developed recreational and other community amenities.

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Are provided in accordance with the comprehensive plan and the comprehensive zoning ordinance.

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Is consistent with chapter 62 design objectives, there's one outstanding issue: if the concept.

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Site plan is approved, then the applicant will need to seek a variance to deviate.

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From the 15-foot type, a buffer where it cannot be provided per the ordinance.

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This concludes the staff report and is entered into the record of this public hearing as.

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Exhibit 2. representing the applicant is chris longmore with dugan mckissick.

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Mckissick and longmore and wayne hunt with alice r.

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Do you have any questions for me? Does anybody have any questions of staff at this time? No questions.

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Brandi during your presentation, just following you along.

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Correct me: if I'm wrong, I could have been writing something at the same time, but I don't did you go.

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Over the purpose of the rpd page, that would have been page eight did I go over the purpose of the.

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Rpd, I did okay, I'm just making sure I was writing and doing this and doing that. It seemed like to me.

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I missed the page, no I'll pay more attention next time. I've read it already today, but.

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I just wanted to make sure that everybody else had heard it. I apologize brandy, one quick question.

D

On the first page of your presentation, I think it said three acres and this says 2.07 is: is it three.

D

Or four, it's three acres, there's two there's two parcels there's a lot and then there's a parcel, a.

D

Okay, so there's there's two parcels that make the whole site up. Okay, thank you. You're.

B

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Okay, any other questions of staff actually to follow up on that. So the two parcels are.

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They connected in any legal sense um or you know past the um here you know this hearing um is the.

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Applicant able to separate the two properties, do you mean like subdivide them? Yes, no, the parcel a.

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The smaller piece is actually density for the larger subdivision. Okay, it can't be further.

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Developed as in residential with another dwelling, or anything like that, thank you. You're welcome.

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Okay, anybody else have any questions or stats.

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Okay, um before the applicant starts, I do want to say that I did go out to this site.

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I looked on google earth and I looked at the county, gis and the question of basically the.

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Driveway type of thing I wanted to see, I I needed to see it myself, so I will say that I went out to.

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The site- I didn't didn't, discuss the case with the applicant or anything, but I did go out to the end.

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To where their property is and then came back out, I just wanted to make that now and.

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Mr chairman, um I did the very same thing for the very same reasons. um I think that.

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Again, sometimes it's not necessary to do that, but in this instance I thought it was um and again.

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um Nothing discussed- that's not in this information that we have really before us, so.

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Just let everybody know thank you and chairman thompson. I also visited the property um from the.

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uh Public right-of-way and turned around very difficultly um in the very small right away.

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To see that I had no interactions with the any people. Okay, mr weiskoff. Thank you. Yes are we.

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Being as was discussed um last week, you know it is discouraged. I mean it's not a flat. No, um but.

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You know the case that mr murphy was talking about when he was talking about how the court.

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Of appeals had, you know, allowed it. That was a full board going. You know not just one individually, but.

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The full, so that way, all members of the board saw it because now I think what happens is.

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That you don't just say I went there. You now have to put on the record what you saw.

G

You know because you're gonna, you could possibly base your decision based on something that you saw.

G

Out there, that is not on the record in front of you and, as everybody knows, going back to.

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June 15th of 12 15, when uh who was it the old uh rebel rebel barons? You know tracked down.

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King john of england, and forced them to sign the magna carta chapter. 39 of that allowed us to.

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Brought up the thing of due process right, because what we want to and due process at its most basic.

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Level is opportunity and notice to be heard right and due process at its most basic level.

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More basic than that is fairness right and that's that's what we're really getting at.

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Is fairness and I'm not suggesting that anybody here wouldn't be fair.

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But the applicants have a right to have their just have the decision that you all make based.

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On what is on the record? So what you guys have gone out there and seen is not part of the record.

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So number one if mr longmore so chose. I think he has a right to cross-examine you and ask you.

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Questions about it if he so chose to do that, but number two. I think you have to put on the record.

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What time did you go out there? When did you go out there? What did you see when you were there.

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Did you pass a car when you were going there if you think the driveway is narrow, did you get out.

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And you know measure it with the tape or you just you know, and on and on and on, but um we've got.

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Plenty of time- and I think you guys have to put on the record what you saw we can- and we can do one.

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Other thing, if you want, we can continue this, and I can ask the other board members that that didn't.

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Go out there to go out there, but then you so now, all of a sudden we've got seven different trips.

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Maybe somebody went out there at five o'clock. Maybe somebody went out there at seven o'clock. I.

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Mean the more attenuated it gets, the more unfair it possibly gets, and again not that I think any.

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You know I understand when we were discussing it, you know the other week. It is a very.

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Fine line right because, if we're discussing as we you know, said the 7-eleven on route, 5. well,.

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Everybody's passed that a million times you can close your eyes and imagine there everybody's.

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Past it when the school buses are pulling out, you can close your eyes and imagine that.

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So I I get you know on one hand you guys say well, what's you know? What's the big deal, if we just go.

G

Out there and see it in person I mean you said you, you looked at it on google maps. Did you look.

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At it on the 1938 google map, did you look at it on the 58th, the 78, the 95, the 97 2020? Was it spring.

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Was it fall? I went, were there trees out there? Were there not trees out there? I mean it just.

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All right well give me a chance and I'll answer a couple of certainly, but I just think.

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You know, and maybe it doesn't matter to mr longmore at all I mean I'm not trying to.

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um And again, I'm not trying to you know press his case at all, but I I think he would say that.

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You know well the reason I went out there I'll start and I'll ask the other board members the.

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Reason I went out there is when I went to google earth. I didn't look up what date it was on. I.

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I know just enough to go to google and find a map on it and on the county, gis I went on there.

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I saw exactly what was on the pictures that the applicant sent, I saw a house, and I saw a.

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Building my reasoning for going out, there was twofold: um the letters that we got in.

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Our packets, most of them, had to do with the driveway, and things like that. I've never been.

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On watson, road, in my life I don't say that very often I've been around the county a couple times.

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Never been on waltham road, don't know why they didn't invite me. So I went. I went out to wathen.

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Road and I drove that driveway and I went out and they were on their deck. I said hello.

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Right, I'm from I'm from the planning commission, I just need to see, did my thing got back in the.

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Car and then went out. I just wanted to see it's a long driveway. You know and that's what.

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That was my I'll say my what made me go to that site. I wanted to see right because I could tell.

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Something was changing and what it is is half of its black top and half of its gravel, and so it.

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Just didn't didn't look right, so that's so I have a question for you dave. So, given what you just.

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Said went back two weeks ago. Are you suggesting that we we are required to make decisions.

F

Based solely on the information that's provided to us in this packet from staff.

G

I think the answer to that is you're supposed to base it on the evidence that's introduced to.

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You, whether it's from staff, whether it's from the applicant, so let me go a little further.

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You know- and I had this conversation with mr murphy- that's fine, I mean so.

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So um about due diligence again I went online. I went online and downloaded the.

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The uh the licenses that are available- you know, from the state of maryland- and I had them here.

F

Okay, I didn't reach out to staff to do that. I wasn't provided that from staff, but I needed.

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To know what the licenses said you know I want to know and because there's a pecking order in this.

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Thing I mean the county says one thing: the state says something else, and the federal government.

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Says yet another thing and I need to understand what the pecking order is I mean, does: does the.

F

Federal government uh control, what happens down here in the county sounds like it does to me.

F

And the state same thing: well, it's always the pecking order right, the feds control, the state.

G

The state controls the county county, you know, but but I guess my point is this. My point is that for.

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Those of us- and I'm not saying anybody, does I mean I you know I take this fairly seriously.

F

Absolutely I've been doing this for a long time. I don't want to deny anybody anything that they.

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Have a right to do period into conversation. I spent too much time in you know, sitting in rooms.

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Trying to make distilleries and and and breweries and wineries allowable right, honest to god, it's.

F

Right, it's it's for me for anybody to say that I'm up here and I'm trying to do something.

F

Underhanded is just not accurate. My again well, I don't know anybody who's, saying anybody's doing.

G

Anything well, you know I and what I'm saying is that we can only describe what we describe and.

F

I just well in my comments a minute ago. I said I did go out there by the way it was. It was slippery.

F

Iced all over the place and slipping and sliding just trying to look around that's all. I did.

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And stuckard was there hello? um I saw nothing there. That is not represented in the staff report.

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Or information provided to us by folks that are going to reach out probably tonight.

F

And and and and say their piece, um you know as in the public hearing right so.

F

When they, when, when they reach out in the public hearing, and we have that information.

F

That information is now ours right, based our decision on part of that as well. Absolutely yeah.

F

So again I don't. I personally never go any place unless I have a reason to go. I just don't. um I.

F

I've got plenty of stuff to do in my life. I don't need to spend a lot of time running on down these.

F

Roads and to be honest with you, mr chairman, thompson's right, this is a long lane. You're not.

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Going to sneak up on anybody you're going to pull in the lane and they can see you coming right so.

F

You know and again it was a wet nasty sloppy day and ice everywhere, and I what I saw I mean I saw.

F

Where the, where the barn is, I saw where the house was, I see the narrow lane. You know, I see down the.

F

Hill there's a shed and there's a looks like hops and the reason I know that is because I grow hops.

F

So I know what that looks like so and and that's really the ex the extent of it um again. I'm going.

F

To tell you there's nothing in me that wants to deny these people I mean for a brewery license.

F

On a technicality that said right when we, when we set this in motion, we were very clear about.

F

What the requirements were for people to have foreign breweries? It's not like it was.

F

Took five minutes, it was forever trying to figure that out, and so here we and here we are and- and we.

F

One of the problems is, and I asked brandon earlier we and I said it's up to you- we don't have in my.

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Mind a clear definition of a farm. Last week before last, I talked about five different definitions.

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And everybody's is different, I mean the agricultural they've got an eight and.

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A half by eleven definition of what it is assessment office has one maryland, has one.

G

So mary's has one: are we talking about the right to farm? Are we talking about our zoning ordinance.

G

Are we talking about our subdivision ordinance, I know and there's and so, and so what happens.

F

For us up here, we wind up being the bad guys. We we have to make a decision one way or the other.

F

And there's always going to be somebody on the right and on and and on the left.

F

Right, I think we need to do a better job rather than making it the plannings commissions.

F

You know well the the annotated code and I'll pull it I'll pull it up. I don't have it in front of me.

G

Talks about the planning commission having a staff, the staff being, you know, logging, log them and.

G

If you need more information, I mean, maybe we need to you know, make that process easier for that. You.

G

Need to pick up the phone and call mr hunt or call miss glenn and say I would like to know.

G

A b and c I would like: why isn't there a traffic study? Why isn't there this, but but we're getting.

G

You know, I don't mean to get away and just have a well. What we're talking about now is is visiting.

F

So mr murphy brought up the the issue with regard um well, the bottom line of visiting is this: it's.

G

A slippery slope and it's a slippery slope, because you could now base your decision on something you.

G

Saw that nobody else here saw that's not part of the record, and that would be patently unfair.

G

To the applicant right, if that were to happen, there's no sense. Speaking this I mean I, I.

F

I get it, I mean right, you know when I reached out, you know. Mr murphy was talking about.

F

uh The reality of me, reaching out with regard to a crosswalk, I didn't say anything to the county.

F

That went to the applicant and that's fine, and you know if I don't make, if I don't make.

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That comment, I'm not I'm not doing what I'm here to do. I mean my part of my job is to make is, is.

F

To make it a better project, not to deny it I mean so anyway. Okay, I got you quick question dave. Yes,.

D

It's it seems to me, there's always going to be varying opinions on.

D

This type of stuff not only site visits but, as I told you last week when we were discussing this.

D

I tend to look up a lot of different stuff.

D

And on this one I looked up deeds and not everybody looked up deeds. So I.

D

Guess that's something that you know it's I'm just going to disclose that, but right.

D

Maybe we should have a rule that the applicant, the attorney or their representative asks us in the.

D

Beginning of the meeting did anybody view see, go anything that wasn't in the packet and everybody.

D

Can say: well, I did this, I did, it doesn't seem like it's. I mean and I looked up deeds because.

D

A lot of the information from the people of um sending in public comments referenced it or talked.

G

About reference to sure sure- and I didn't get that so I wanted to probably curious about the easement.

D

Or the road or right I wanted to look up. I get that, but you just put it on the record and say.

G

Gentlemen, I was curious about this. I looked up the deeds and you know, looked at the uh private.

G

Road maintenance agreement or looked at what the easement language said. I get that, but but mr.

G

Longmore should have the opportunity to know that you might be basing your decision.

G

On the fact that you've read this easement that nobody else has read or nobody else is.

G

Introduced into evidence, that's the only point is that he should be aware of it. So that way.

G

He can either say: well, you needed to look at part two that maybe you didn't or.

G

Regardless he just needs to know what happened so that he can. You know I mean.

D

I can remember when this that first started, but I've been on here. This is my sixth year.

D

And unbeknownst to me, we couldn't call state highway or we couldn't call.

D

Another entity who was involved in these procedures, so of course we got our hands lapped.

D

A few times, and now I email brandy or mr hunt and say I'd like this answer from state highway or.

D

Who, whoever this just seems like adding on to one more thing that we we can't do to investigate.

D

Just to see something that we may have felt we needed to see, and I'm assuming that.

D

Maybe the board is just going to have to come up here every week and say.

D

I made a site visit, I looked up a deed and I looked up maryland licenses that you know.

D

Because if it wasn't in the packet, I don't know we should, you should always disclose.

G

If something outside of the evidence is, you know you you've looked at, but one other thing.

F

The last you know with regard to the crosswalk.

F

For me to suggest that it would be a good idea for staff to ask the state uh for a traffic study.

F

Because I I ask about to the applicant about a crosswork that is horribly onerous to the to.

F

The applicant, I mean right those things I mean they, don't they don't give those away. You know.

F

And, and it's not as though it's a it's an enormous, it's not like it's 235 and anything like that. It.

F

Was just a subject, it was just a suggestion. I know so you know I'm just trying to keep.

G

Everyone straight we're trying to do this job with our hands tied behind our backs. We we appreciate.

A

It, mr weinstein, okay, so this is wise golf, so I'm the outlier in this on this board here.

E

um I'm not born and raised in southern maryland, I'm from south- and I heard you discussed this last.

G

Week I I understand what you're saying, but if you feel that you need, you know, evidence, that's not in.

G

Front of you or hasn't been supplied by the board. Let us know I mean I don't know if they need to.

G

Start you know, well let me let me continue if you sure, if I can, um I grew up in a rural community.

E

uh In pennsylvania they had townships and boroughs, um not just the county, and it was.

E

A very rural township I grew up in. I grew up in a subdivision, a small subdivision from the 1950s.

E

Next, to a 12-acre farm that grew soybean, it grew corn had horses for a while, um and I saw my.

E

Community, decimated by suburban sprawl, it's one of the reasons I got into planning in the first place.

E

I'm here to preserve my adopted community to best of my ability, as a citizen.

E

So my commuting patterns are from lexington park. You know up up to 35, I could go down five, you go.

E

Down four: um this is a property of course, that is outside of my knowledge base. So yes, of course,.

E

I went and visited um and I'll tell you right now for the record. um I witnessed two people.

E

Driving towards me or leaving the uh the lane um it was about um now about two hours ago,.

E

And then leaving the the uh public right away, eight people, because most of the right of way.

E

Is a public right away with residential properties.

E

E

The level of commercial development from my public standpoint from the public right of way that.

E

Would be concerning to me.

E

It looked like just any other rural community and I saw rural buildings. I.

E

Saw you know, pull barns. I saw things that looked right for the community.

E

um And I used that information based upon what was presented to us to to to develop my own opinion.

E

I don't know I don't. I don't feel I did anything wrong.

E

um I guess I didn't interact with anybody. um I didn't go on to the private property.

E

um I simply wanted to see what this looked like. You know, because it's not in the development.

E

District, where I you know, commute and what I'm most familiar with you know, even even our.

E

Chairman said that you know this is a a part of the county. He's never been down the road.

E

So you know I I again I just feel like that was information. Could we, as as a committee as a board,.

E

Ask for all that extra information every single time an applicant comes to us absolutely.

E

But I think in most cases it wouldn't be benefiting most of the people on this board.

E

Benefiting me because I wasn't born and raised here now, does that make me not qualified as a.

E

Member of this community to serve on the board- I don't think so so so that's where we have to kind.

E

Of figure out, you know: do we want to grind the the wheels of justice to a halt simply because.

E

The applicants are assuming that everybody on this board knows everything about this community.

E

And if every single time we have to say well, there's some information we don't have. Let's.

E

Go back, let's do a site visit and stuff. I mean that's going to grind playing to a halt. You know.

E

These these projects aren't going to happen for three four years down the line.

E

If we actually institute something like that.

E

I feel what I did is is in line with the ethics code of the maryland.

E

Planning commissioners association with the courses I took for ethics as a former aicp planner.

E

I think they're within the the realms of of their code of ethics, um and I'm simply you know, you know.

E

Letting the rest of this, the people, knowing that hey I this is what I did. I think I would not be.

E

Doing my my due diligence, if I didn't do what I did today by visiting the property from the.

E

Public right of way, so that's that's all I have to add to the discussion. Yeah, okay, okay,.

A

Good evening, mr lawnmower.

A

Oh you're, still there aren't you good evening, mr chairman, good evening. Yes, sir, yes, okay,.

A

I think we've asked all our questions to staff. I think you've heard.

A

uh From the three board members that went out there are you: is there any questions.

A

That you might have of us before we let you get started with your presentation.

H

No, I don't think so. I've been um communicating with my with my clients during the conversation.

H

We we appreciate the what the board members have shared about, what what they did. We that helps us.

H

To know what has happened, but we don't have any objections to going forward tonight uh based on.

H

What we heard so we're ready to go, I think, just about everything we spoke about is in the packets.

A

It was just a a certain concern of where so, okay, let's go ahead and get you started, go ahead.

A

Okay, okay, well, members of the planning commission. Thank you for for hearing us tonight.

H

um We appreciate you taking the time to look at this application.

H

um What I'd like to do is I'm going to share my my screen, and hopefully this will work.

H

I apologize for.

C

Having a hard time.

A

Take your time, mr lawnmowers, yeah yeah, I apologize it's not pulling up the program that I.

H

Wanted to share, I don't know why. Oh here we go.

C

There you go okay,.

H

Okay, so can the board uh see that yes, sir, yes.

H

Okay, thank you um so again, thank you for for um taking the time to consider this.

H

Application tonight we appreciate the report the staff gave. What I'd like to do is just.

H

Introduce again, who is here for us as far as the application.

H

I'll be the one kind of emceeing the presentation so to speak. What we're going to.

H

Do after I speak for a moment now, I'm going to turn it over to wayne hunt to go through.

H

um The site plan and wayne I have those on this powerpoint or, if you'd like to share your screen.

H

Whatever's easiest for you, but I can certainly uh use the slides that I've prepared wayne.

H

Did prepare the site plan, he can discuss um any engineering or site uh condition, so you.

H

Have any questions about excuse me and then I'll run through on this youth site.

H

Type 12c and just hearing the initial conversations, the board. I know there's some.

H

um You know kind of questions about this. I think this may be the first time this use has.

H

Come before the planning commission so I'll run through the provisions in our ordinance.

H

And some of the the rules that apply to it and then share with you some notes about the project.

H

That we think are relevant and important for both the planning commission to hear and the public.

H

To hear, based on some of the written comments that we've reviewed prior to tonight's hearing,.

H

um To address some of the concerns of the of the neighbors and other folks that.

H

Noted concerns and we think that most of the concerns that have been raised.

H

Are not really at issue on the project once the planning commission hears what my clients plans.

H

Are and and the conditions they're willing to have on their site plan approval and then I'll.

H

Have the site plan standards? I know the planning commission is well aware of them, but I can run.

H

Through those and kind of highlight why we think we need them in this case, so with that I'll turn.

H

It over to you wayne, if you want I'll, pull up your first uh slide and then, if you'd rather.

H

Have control of it? Let me know, but otherwise, just let me know when you'd like I'd rather.

H

Have control, if you don't mind: okay, okay, so I'll, stop, sharing and then I'll. Let you go! Thank you.

A

Good evening mr hunt.

I

Good evening, thank you planning, commission members for having us here tonight. um I wanted to.

I

You've got a copy of the site plan there. Yes, I wanted to work off of the.

I

Just this one sheet here: what page is that, so that I could talk a little bit about the site.

I

Specifically, can you see my presentation, yes yeah and I believe that is page three.

A

Of our concept site plan page three of this type of plan- yes blown up, yes, sir, so.

I

I wanted to address a few of the concerns. I read in the letters to the planning commission as well.

I

If I may, um I'd like to start off with the improvements and the statement that was made.

I

That these improvements are disturbing areas and all these extra improvements- I just wanted to note.

I

That all of the improvements all of the required facilities are on top of existing impervious areas.

I

We are not creating new impervious surfaces, in fact, this plan, the disturbances that are proposed.

I

Are here to make the plan better we're proposing storm water management to treat the.

I

Plutone for the sins of the past owner and create a better plan, we're going to provide.

I

Stormwater attenuation stormwater management, the cleaning of the water in the microbiome facility.

I

Also, it was talking about disposal of waste products, and it will definitely be to this.

I

Holding tank shown right here as far as the size of the tank goes, I mean it's 1500 gallons. You.

I

Pump it when it's full um that'll work out with the function of the brewery. Where is that tank.

A

And again, mr hunt, it's right here in front of the building. It's going to be built under the parking.

I

Area, I'm sorry! No! I can see it now. Can you see my hand on here? Yes, sir? Yes, good, very good, so that's.

I

Where the tank is it'll, be under the existing parking area with the traffic bearing lid for.

I

Safety, um there was also a note here about traffic concerns and the way that they were calculated.

I

I just wanted to remind the commission that when we do our adequate public facilities and we do.

I

Traffic initially for adequate apf out of the public facilities, we are asked to use numbers.

I

That are provided to us in the zoning ordinance for preliminary calculations and those are based.

I

Upon square footage, so a note was made that, even though that you know the change or the use became.

I

Less intense, the numbers didn't change and that's the reason why it's based on square footage and an.

I

Industrial use, when we're doing these calculations we're, given our choice of residential industrial.

I

Office or shopping center and industrial is what we used and that seems to be the most appropriate.

I

Here it was also reviewed the department of public works and is deemed sufficient for apf purposes.

I

This area right here you can see that distance of 12 and a half feet.

I

Is where the building exists? The ordinance and this use requires a 15 foot, a buffer yard against.

I

The adjoining agricultural use, we will provide the plantings necessary, as provided in the.

I

Template for the a-type buffer yard in the zoning ordinance, all the plantings will be provided as.

I

Required it just won't be as wide as it needs to be for this one short section.

I

I believe that takes care of my uh by just going over this plan real quickly. I believe.

I

The rest of it is kind of speaks for itself, so I would like to answer any questions that the.

I

Commission may have of me now, mr, when you're talking about the buffer area behind the the.

A

Garage area I'll call it that is that going to require a variance. It says: yes, sir, it is okay.

A

Just want that on record and wayne, this is, is chris longmore just uh followed that question.

H

From the chair, the the garage that's shown on your plan is already an existing garage on the.

H

Property, correct, yes, it is okay and the garage is already located where you're showing it, which is.

H

12 and a half feet from the from the property line there correct. These are all existing conditions.

I

Not proposed okay, and, as you mentioned, and I know, uh jade or dave can confirm.

H

um That um that structure was not built by mr mrs stuckert, it was there as you understand it,.

H

When they purchased the property correct, that is correct. Okay, so you, when you kind of mention that.

H

It's kind of correcting the it kind of sends the past owner or something to that effect.

H

Essentially, this plan: will um you know, with with the granting of that variance um as needed.

H

um It'll actually add a buffer that is not existing to a structure that is already there is.

H

That a fair statement, that's a fair statement. Okay, and you also mentioned some stormwater management.

H

Facilities are those the ones shown kind of to the left of the structure there. Can you can you.

H

Just share with the commission a little bit of what they are and kind of what their purpose is.

I

Microbio retention, what we're going to end up doing is that currently the roof drains right.

I

Here, just come out of gutters onto the ground from the building. What we're going to do is we're going.

I

To take that rain water from the building and divert it into this triangular structure here.

I

This triangular structure will attain some of the storm water management and allow it.

I

To infiltrate into the ground and pond above so that it's released slower than it would naturally.

I

And then it's also going to filter some. There will be an outfall device that will actually be down.

I

Here, that's underneath of the micro bioretention facility I like to have those installed so that.

I

The device dewaters regularly and doesn't become a mosquito pit, which will also.

I

Kill the plants that are required, it makes for a better functioning device.

H

And all of those are improvements that will be added if the site plan is approved, and this goes.

H

Forward correct, correct yeah and the holding tank you mentioned. Is that a whole? I I think.

H

You mentioned this, but just so I was having a hard time hearing. I want to make sure it's.

H

Clear for the record in the commission that that holding tank is for any uh wastewater or water.

H

That comes from the growing process. Is that your understanding, that is my understanding of what its.

I

Intent is any purpose. Okay uh and- and I can have dave or jada- confirm this- it's your understanding.

H

That that um will be, you know as needed that would be pumped out. So there won't be waste wat.

H

Water going into the into the uh ground instead it'll, be pumped and disposed of in accordance.

H

With state regulations yeah, that's correct, 100 correct, mr mrs stucker. Just to make sure.

A

You did take the oath when I gave it out right. Your picture wasn't on the screen. Was it okay.

A

I was reading, I wasn't looking so I'm just making sure I don't want any problems right. Okay,.

A

Thank you, hey chris. I think those are the questions I didn't follow. Oh I'm sorry go.

H

Ahead, mr banker, oh, that's! Okay! Thank you. um Since you had mentioned the existing building.

D

It seems to be that garage is within the 25 foot building restriction line.

I

Is it um mr hunt will have to attest to this, but accessory structures are actually allowed.

I

Within five feet of the property line- okay, that's what I was mr bill hunt should answer that: okay,.

D

One other question: could you take your cursor from the very bottom.

D

Left where the driveway starts coming in and trace it along where it goes just so, we.

I

The driveway, yes, is here the the triple lines: that's the existing paved driveway that comes off.

I

So that's the driveway there so that red the red line- and it comes all the way up and it's.

I

It's shaded it's lightly, shaded in this area. Here, okay, we can't see that so there is a line. All the.

I

Way up through here, okay, the intent is since this driveway is there- is that this drainage would go.

I

Along the edge of the driveway, without having to dig it up till it reached daylight. Okay, thank you.

C

Okay, who else I didn't want to answer a question- is that okay, yes ma'am? um Mr mrs stucco, this.

J

Patty robrack, I have one quote: did I say it microphone hold it to you? Yes, sir. Thank you. Man.

A

Yes, man, mr mrs stucco, did I say right struggle. Stuckert stuckert. um Could you answer a couple.

J

Questions for me, first being um if you're not going to use that room, I mean it's a brewery, but.

J

You're, there's not going to be any tasting or it I believe I saw where they're not going to be other.

J

Uses that are allowed in this provision, could you tell me exactly besides.

J

The brewery itself, what you're going to do in terms of having people come in and out, if you.

J

Will to maybe just even look at the brewery or to visit the brewery, or are you going to have any.

J

Any um what should I have should I put in any functions. Thank you for the word.

J

Any functions that are going to take place that will require.

J

A large influx of cars coming in and out of the the facility.

K

I can answer answer that for you, so we are not proposing a tasting room.

K

We we're actually requesting that the planning commission.

K

Put a restriction on us saying that we cannot have a tasting room. We cannot have special events.

K

The reason for that being is because we live on that property. We don't want people coming.

K

Out we don't want to do tours, we don't want to do tastings at this site. We we live there. I I.

K

Don't want people coming out there on a daily basis. We have an alternate set of plans that.

K

Have been submitted to the town of leonardtown and our tasting room will actually be in town.

K

We're we don't plan on having anybody out to the property other than ourselves and.

K

Our friends that come out to visit from time to time, but that's not necessarily brewery related.

J

Okay, thank you very much. That's that was important information to hear.

K

H

Other questions about the site plan, but we did have some.

H

You know some additional comments to make along those lines um that might help the the planning.

H

Commission if you'd like, but if you have questions before that, we're happy to answer them chris, but.

H

Are there any questions on the site plan before wayne? Stop sharing? Yes, chris, I have one on site.

F

Plan the weld this uh the well that's going to be used. It's uh that currently exists. The deep well.

F

I see it there. Yes, sir, it does you guys will be using that that well at the brewery as well.

I

I believe that's the plan, I'll, let jay to answer that.

K

uh Yes, at this point in time, we do plan on using that. Well, okay, and this this would be for mr hunt.

F

Mr hunt on the site plan under proposed use the use type 12c, which is agricultural high intensity,.

F

A moment ago, you referred to three different brackets that you could base this on. Is that.

F

Is that the reason that this is agricultural high intensity.

B

Is that wayne hunt that was that was her way wayne hunt? That's for you not bill hunt! That's for me.

I

Yes, uh that doesn't sound like a question for me to be honest with you, I'm sorry wayne I was just.

F

Asking here I can I'm sorry, I thought you were asking mr bill hunt. No, I'm sorry. I was waiting.

H

For for that answer, mr evans, I might be able to answer that and the zoning ordinance on table 50.4.

H

um There that's the table of uses. This use, use, 12c falls within the agriculture use section of that.

H

And it is on the chart called a high intensity use right, and I guess my question, I I don't see.

H

Anything else in the description for anything that gives any other explanation other than that.

H

Right: okay, um with regard this may be for miss stuckert with regard to not having a tasting.

F

Room and the rest and the in the site plan under parking requirements. There are uh 25 visitors, an.

F

Estimated peak crowd is this: is this part to be amended, um or does that? Does that stay as it is.

I

I know what you're talking about and uh I believe we'll end up having that amended. That would be.

I

An oversight on this plan and it would need to be changed. Do we have the parking was originally one.

I

Space per thousand four for the building right and this one for five visitors at peak would probably.

I

Need to be removed that would change the total required two four okay, so we would change the.

I

Site plan accordingly: okay, so you guys would you guys would have been in the cycling for that? Okay.

A

Plus the applicant has also asked that they're not going to have a tasting room right, so yeah yeah.

F

About the site plan, they'll need um spots for any sort of deliveries. You know be at ups or whatever.

A

Mr fazikas, so the four are still required. Yeah, yes, we'll have three with a handicap.

I

And a loading zone as required, it's the other five that will be dropped.

A

Thank you, mr so when it comes to variances um people who watch these uh meetings over time.

E

uh Will know that I have an issue with variances. Essentially a variant says I cannot meet.

E

The regulations of the county to build his property, and will you forgive me for.

E

You know building this and with when it comes to new construction.

E

You know my initial instinct is no. You know somebody before me.

E

um From the county decided, we have a a long-range plan and we have you know a.

E

A blue book, if you will you know uh um um it's not the right word, but anyway, a plan. If you will.

E

For how the the county is going to grow and accept growth, while maintaining its rural integrity.

E

In this case, you know we're asking for something less than three feet and.

E

I've seen even mr longmore um asking for stuff double that for new construction.

E

You know, and as for the property owner um this.

E

You know this is an existing building. They they do not want to expand. What's already there.

E

And it's not their fault that somebody before them built this building that may not meet the.

E

Standards that we have on the books right now, so I don't have any issues with the fact that the.

E

Setback, the buffer is not what needs to be.

E

However, what my concerns are- and this goes back to my site, visit.

E

Is that the residential um section uh of the road leading up to this property.

E

Is paved and it seems to work fine for the uh the residents there and um when you go forward.

E

From that, um it's gravel, you know asphalt, it's not an asphalt, it's a gravel road, so.

E

My concern is that will anything that we approve or not approve today.

E

Impact that part of the drive and is there any way to.

E

Accommodate that in the in the event that it becomes a problem, for example,.

E

I just drove my car um back from the philadelphia area last weekend.

E

And I got a car washed on the way home and I drove out to visit the uh site.

E

Up to the public right away, as I stated earlier, um I had a very nice clean car.

E

I turned around in the gravel part I mean I was really in gravel for.

E

Less than a minute and my car is now filled with dust, so the question is like.

E

In the operation of this facility, would the the traffic generated from people coming here, the the.

E

Two other uh families that are part of the um the brewery, ownership or or people who are coming to.

E

um Remove uh the wastewater, that's in the retention.

E

Basin, I can't think of that war right now um under the parking lot there. um If that becomes a problem.

E

Where the dust is is constantly coming up, you know what what is the was the solution for that.

E

Essentially, uh I I guess mr physical I'm trying to.

H

Understand the question I mean certainly mr stucker or mrs tucker can speak. You know to the.

H

Fact that there are no customers being invited on the property, um as was stated in the in the.

H

Application there are two other couples. I believe jada they've corrected me um if I'm wrong that.

H

Assists in that, and that's the extent of it with no other even employees plan for this business.

H

My understanding from them- and they can correct me if I'm wrong, that most of the materials that are.

H

Used for this either they bring in on their personal vehicles.

H

Or they get delivered by companies like amazon, they're, smaller amounts that they need at a time.

H

For the ingredients that aren't grown on the properties or they use their own pickup trucks.

H

For it, um you know, I guess a a truck coming in to to take out the waste. Water is no different than.

H

A truck that comes in to take out a septic tank if one needs to be pumped um so so I don't know that.

H

That that is difficult if it's a dust problem, I I don't know if I understand what you're trying.

H

To get at well, I think my concern is, I I'm ignorant okay, so I don't know just how many.

E

Times per day per week per month, would a a vehicle be coming to take the waste water.

E

From the processing that they're planning on doing um away, you know we talk, you know.

E

With a sewer with a yeah, you have a seven six thumb. You know okay, once a year twice a year.

E

Depending on your your household and the size of your system, um you know how how often based on.

E

You hear yeah hear what I'm saying I mean dave or jada. Can you sh yeah? Can you share what you expect.

H

You know the frequency of that's a bit yeah, if I could so um as far as the people coming to and.

K

From um I know, the neighbors are very concerned because they have noticed um the amount of traffic.

K

Has increased since we moved in, we do have five people that live in the household. There are five.

K

Vehicles, we all go to work in the morning and then we all come home in the evening on the weekends.

K

And from time to time, yes, we do have friends over, so that adds to the traffic and trust me.

K

I do apologize for your dirty vehicle. We have to wash ours on a regular basis. We are fully aware.

K

um As far as this septic being pumped, obviously that's, you know once a year, maybe.

K

If we were brewing on the capacity that we want to be able to brew.

K

That underground holding tank would probably have to be tanked or pumped twice a year.

K

As far as deliveries go just like mr longmore said, we mainly use amazon ups.

K

We really do try to buy local with our grains, so a lot of times we'll go and pick them up.

K

Ourselves, if we can, we do grow our own hops. So unless it's a specialty, hop that we don't grow.

K

Then we're gonna try to buy it from amazon, of course. So I hope that answers your question. Yeah.

E

So give me something else to go on it's an absence of any other information. You know.

E

With the plans you have in place, yeah there may be two, let's just say, for you know,.

E

Three times a year that a truck was going to have to come to your property.

E

These are three additional trips per year, um where somebody might have to pump out.

E

That waste water from the use that you're you're proposing.

K

Well, of course I mean it's not nobody else that I know of in the area has an underground holding.

K

Tank like that, so yes, it is going to add a large truck coming in more often than normal. However,.

K

To offset that, our road maintenance agreement also requires that we pay part of the road maintenance.

K

Fee so we do have to pay the wathens a certain set amount once a year to help.

K

Help with the road maintenance on the road- and we also have a tractor of our own and have offered to.

K

Go out and do some of the maintenance, ourselves gotcha, and so what happens in the event that.

E

um You're very successful, which is great, um and now it's not. You know three times a year. It's.

E

Six times a year, you're pumping out does your agreement um with with the with them actually.

E

You take that into fact like can you can you you know, what's going to happen, if you're.

E

For example, you're very successful and the um activities double in in and let's say, volume.

L

I'll, let you hold it up, so I think um if that's the case, which we we kind of hope it is the way.

L

We hope we're successful. um If that's the case, though, and and it's required more often, we would.

L

Certainly be able to, you know, help with any additional maintenance on the road for sure.

L

If not take care of most of that, if it's even needed, you know it's a it's a dirt road. It does.

L

Need maintenance and we're willing and able to help with that maintenance as much as we can, we.

L

Certainly, don't want to cause any damage again. It's it's our road to get to our residential.

L

Property as well, not our road, but it's our way I get to the well. Thank you. Thank you.

M

Mr tom, yes, sir, mr thompson, yes, sir, mr sinclair just saying clear:.

M

Can someone tell me what the production rate is of your brewery.

M

And how much grain are you going to be purchasing a year.

L

So, yes, sir, um you know it's a seven barrel system. It's uh it's designed for about 217, gallons, total.

L

Per brew day, uh you know, uh we'd have to calculate exactly how many hundreds, but it's roughly about.

L

250 pounds of grain per brewing at the per per day we're expecting to have um five fermenters.

L

Which is allows us, you know after waste, and all this we're roughly about a thousand.

L

Gallons per month, so uh that's that's total brewing. uh So every time we brew.

L

Maybe two to three hundred pounds of grain at the time and we have a plan to distribute that.

L

To other farmers around the county, who are have expressed quite a bit of interest in it actually.

L

I hope that answers the question.

C

Okay, anything else, joe okay, total volume a year. You must know what that is yeah. You know so.

L

Yeah we're looking at I'm looking at the top. You know each like. I said each.

L

Total per year is roughly 500 barrels. I know there were some estimates quite a bit more than that.

L

That's the system would be capable of something like that. If we all have.

L

The time and effort we're working there, 24 7 and we were trying to mass produce beer like.

L

Say a budweiser or something like that. We do something quite different and we're limited by.

L

A lot of things other than just the equipment itself, so we'd be limited by ingredients. Limited.

L

By water limited by a lot of things, and we, our processes take a lot longer because we're looking.

L

For a much better product- and we age it a lot differently, so it takes us quite a bit longer.

L

To do some things, so I know there was a letter that somebody had done some uh quite a bit of.

L

Homework and they're roughly accurate, with a an industrial style brewery again, this is this- is.

L

A farm brewery with farming ingredients and we would be in no way that capacity.

L

It's simply impossible: we have full-time jobs as well, so this is a part-time venture for us.

M

I'm just thinking um that we're looking at manufacturing because you're not raising.

M

Enough hops or grains um and producing it on farm, like a regular farm, would do um so that.

M

Means you're going to be buying most of your ingredients and bringing them in where there's.

M

Quite a few breweries that are in industrial sites because that's considered manufactured.

M

Have you ever considered looking at a a site where water through mecca is, you know versus.

M

What you're going to have to go through sediment control in a memo from soil conservation and I'm.

M

Going to read it to you, everybody receives it. This was received july. The 15th 2020.

M

It says no three acre combined lot and a parcel does not meet the definition of farm under.

M

Soil conservation, district guidelines and it's considered a residential lock. Therefore, a farm.

M

Brewery designation does not apply. Can you address that.

H

Sure and mr sinclair, this is chris longmore again I I'll be happy to.

H

To address that and then, if my clients would like to as well- um and I don't have it- I'm.

H

Looking for that, and I do have the comment in front of me- um I I mean respectfully the.

H

Zoning ordinance is what it's a 10 argument. What was that? I'm sorry? I didn't hear you.

H

Did you say something mr sinclair didn't mean to interrupt you? I said it was on attachment 10.

H

Yes, yeah and I had that in front of me now uh no go ahead, mr lama, yeah yeah. I have a.

H

Copy of that that memo in front of me um respectfully, the zoning ordinance, is what.

H

Defines what a farm brewery is um in our county, what the requirements are for? It.

H

This comment by by soil conservation district, you know, respectfully, I don't think they have.

H

The legal authority to decide what the farm brewery designation is or is not. um That is.

H

Not within their their purview that I understand, um there's no requirement in the zoning ordinance.

H

That relates to to their definitions of what uh they consider to be a farm or not. um That's.

H

How I read this and when you look at both the standards in our zoning ordinance and.

H

The standards that are required by the state and federally for this type of use.

H

Legally, I just don't think that applies and I don't think you know is relevant. They did.

H

Suggest that it's adequate for preliminary approval in that same comment memo, so I.

H

Think that may be uh part of it. It might not fall under their definition of what a farm is.

H

But that is not a requirement that a farm brewery has to meet the definition.

H

Of what soil conservation district calls a farm- and there is no minimum.

H

Or maximum acreage required for farm brewery under our ordinance and this provision was just.

H

Enacted, you know less than a decade ago, so it's a fairly recent uh provision within our ordinance.

M

uh Just just to comment on my part is that I I've got 40 acres here, where I'm at.

M

um That would take quite a bit of grain to for me to put in a even a micro brewery to put out.

M

500 barrels a year and I never did get the barrel size barrels come in different sizes,.

M

uh Whether they're 50 gallon or whether they're 100 gallon or so I that I don't know what that is.

M

But I I couldn't produce enough here on my small acreage and in the grain specific.

M

You have to get the farmer to do, select, grains like rise or no that's whiskey. Sorry.

M

I was in the wrong one um two: in order to have beer, um so you'd have to get the farmers.

M

A wrap to select the type of grain that would have to be raised for their type of beer.

L

Yeah, if I could for a second, they said they expressed interest in supplying them with grain.

L

Yeah yeah, I would like to find local uh ingredients um and that's part of what we're.

L

Doing it's not just that we're trying to grow some of the things on our property as the state.

L

License requires, as as we're doing with the hops. We think that's going to be sufficient enough for.

L

For that particular ingredient, but yeah sourcing, barley and we do use rye in some instances.

L

It's been a challenge and we would like to and work with local farmers. We do have a molster or a.

L

Couple of them now in maryland, that are also small businesses and growing. We have tried to source a.

L

Lot of our our barley, which is the main ingredient, besides water, of course in in the brewing process,.

L

It's awful difficult: uh the area around this uh in maryland is not necessarily the best for it.

L

But we have read a lot of studies from the university of maryland extension.

L

We know that they have some test fields up here and that farmers are finding that.

L

Some of the barley that they can grow to the right characteristics is is very beneficial not only.

L

To their farms but to their business, their farm businesses, because it rates a higher price. um So.

L

We are, we would like to find local ingredients, not just uh barley, but honey uh fruits. Different types.

L

Of things that we can use within from locally sourced farms in the area, not just our own.

K

And mr saint claire, if I could um we not only plan to just grow hops,.

K

We know, while we do have several on the farm. We know that we might struggle sometimes.

K

With you know the bugs and the weather and keeping everything growing, we might struggle.

K

To be able to create enough, so we've also looked at other means of farming activities.

K

I'm not I'm trying not to use the word farming too much because by all means we are not farmers.

K

And we both know that we're not farmers. However, there are things that we can grow to use in the.

K

Beer on the property and per the state license. We only have to grow and have one ingredient in the.

K

Beer, that comes from the property so we're looking at not only hops, but we've got a wild cherry tree.

K

We've got black wild blackberries that surround the entire property and they are delicious and.

K

We've used them in the beer. um You know I wanted. I I love to dig in the dirt, so I want to do.

K

Raspberries and blueberries- and these are all things that we can use in the beer uh so and I'm.

K

Actually, pretty good at making sure that that stuff stays good until it goes into the beer.

K

Whether it's freezing or canning, or jarring, or freeze drying, I can do that all in my own kitchen.

M

Okay, I'm just a little surprised that you're using the word not we don't want to use the word.

M

Farm, but that's what you're coming in under, which is farm, uh I'm not taking that away from you. It's.

M

Just like I don't understand, I mean it's okay to use farming, but you don't want to use the.

M

Term farming, I'm very confused. Okay, because a lot of times it's farmers to preserve their.

M

Farms by having a niche brewery on farms, uh we need to better decipher exactly what is the farm.

M

And I think the comprehensive review which is coming up uh will help us in great ways.

M

And also in aiding you as uh as an individual as well so, and I I completely agree.

K

I I completely agree with you. I just want to clarify the reason that I don't want to.

K

Use the word farm is because we are not farmers, we don't own 40 acres like you do or 220 acres.

K

Like our neighbors, do we have the utmost respect for them and how they're able to do that process.

K

Farm brewing, while, yes, it is, you know a highly coveted thing. It is something that can be done.

K

On smaller pieces of property, that's what I'm trying to get at.

M

I think that's I consider that manufacturing, but that's neither here nor there. Thank you.

M

Very much I I appreciate your your your candid and your and and what you're trying to do here.

A

Miss tucker, if I, if I'm hearing you're right well, you say you're, not farmers. Now I mean when I think.

A

Of the word farmers, um I think, of joe sinclair, you know somebody that grows a lot, but you are.

A

Farming you're growing some of the product that you use on on your property. um More than one.

A

Thing that you use well for for the making of the beer or whatever, whatever ingredients it may be,.

A

So, yes, you are a farmer, you can be a farmer with a small amount of acres. You can be a farmer like.

A

Joe and and and a lot of the other people that are down there, the the wathen family and all that and.

A

And, and do it uh you know, have big boy, tractors and all that stuff, but um you're still, farmers.

A

If I'm not, if I'm correct and mr lomore, you can join me on that- I mean not just if you're growing.

A

So if you, you know, if you're doing something, you're growing a product that you're using to.

A

To make whatever it may be, you know in your manufacturing facility than than you're farming.

H

And certainly, mr chairman, I think um you know one of the points will make making a moment.

H

But it's probably worth noting now is that, as mr mrs stucker were mentioning the the farm brewery.

H

Licensing, they still need to get their license before any of this can happen from the state. This.

H

Is one step in that process to get the local? You know zoning approvals necessary for it and then.

H

They move forward with their state licensing, um and the state licensing has requirements in order.

H

To obtain and and keep one of these licenses, as they mentioned, a requirement of that and where.

H

I think the name farm brewery comes from in that statute is that you do have to grow at.

H

Least, one of the ingredients that you use on on your property, where you are brewing.

H

The beer and that's what they intend to do and as you've heard tonight from their testimony.

H

You know certainly it'll be the hops that they're growing there now, but they have plans to hopefully.

H

Expand and have other things that they grow on their property, uh regardless of whether.

H

It's three acres or 40 or 220 acres. They plan to grow there and use that in the and the beer that.

H

They're going to create there in their brewery so that that's where the the designation, the term.

H

Farm comes from, and we can certainly understand when somebody hears the word farm brewery that.

H

They may have an expectation in their mind of what that may mean and that it may be a much larger.

H

Piece of property or a different type of property or a large farm. But the definition that the.

H

State has given that they will need to meet in order to get their final license.

H

um That's essentially the criterion, they believe they're hopeful that they'll be able.

H

To meet it- or they wouldn't be here tonight, asking for this approval.

H

Okay, okay, do you all want? Do you all want to go? I can finish your powerpoint.

A

Presentation, it'll, probably yeah, that'd, be great. If we could, we got kind of- and this might.

H

Address, mr chairman, I want to ask one more question, mr law. More and then I'll.

M

Leave you alone for your powerpoint. um Are there stuck it's brewing now.

H

uh You, if you all want to answer that, um so it's testimony in the record, since I can't testify.

L

uh No, we are, we are not um so we had a previous license at our previous residence. It was.

L

At 645 miriam lane, we had a separate building there and we had a small 600 square foot building.

L

That we were using under a different license since we moved here and have now sold that.

L

Property, we have not been brewing, we don't have the equipment set up, we don't have the ability.

L

To brew and we're asking for permission here to get that started so we've now gone.

L

At least since november, uh producing beer at our other property, even though we sold it in february.

L

So we yeah we've. We still have to maintain a license: a class 5, which is a different.

L

License we still report zero production every month, as directed by the um by the.

L

Authority here in maryland, to do so, but no we have not produced any uh beer for sale.

M

Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

A

Okay, mr lawnmower, please thank you and with that mr chairman uh yeah I'll share my uh my screen.

H

Again um so this was the we already went through the site plan. um This is the full site plan in.

H

Case there's any other questions of the of the board and I'm trying to advance it. So these are.

H

The other pages that were within the the site plan that was provided and it's online.

H

On board docs showing the structure as well in case there were questions of the.

H

Of the look of it, um and then this was the the last page of the site plan uh with the detail.

H

um That I believe we already looked at now the um a couple of points just to make about.

H

The use that we're talking about some of this we've already touched on, so I won't belabor it.

H

What I have showing before the planning commission now is the way that the use type is described.

H

Within our zoning ordinance it is use 12c I mean you can see that it's defined essentially as a.

H

Facility operating under the class 8 farm brewery license that dave was just describing to you.

H

The definition in the ordinance does have the language that it may include.

H

You know: facilities for sampling and retail sales of beer, promotional events and kitchen facilities.

H

Again, my clients, you know both uh because they want to preserve their property and not um not.

H

Have those activities, but also to assure you know their name bluntly, to assure their neighbors that.

H

Have raised some concerns about it, they're happy to accept a condition on their approval tonight.

H

That would not allow them to have retail sales or promotional events or kitchen.

H

Facilities to serve to the public as part of this, um so that is something that they wanted to make.

H

Clear, I know we've touched on it, but wanted to share that and state that affirmatively um the.

H

The property is zoned rpd. I saw that in some of the um some of the letters that were written.

H

Talking about you know, is it, should it be in that type of zone, should it be in residential or or in.

H

The rpt zone, I would just note that our zoning ordinance has only one zone where this type of.

H

Use can be, and it is the rpd, so um it was clearly the intent of our commissioners when they adopted.

H

Those provisions that erpd was an appropriate place for this and, in fact, the only appropriate.

H

Place for it um in our zoning ordinance there are, we did pull the zoning ordinance and look at the.

H

The requirements for our farm brewery as well, we think we can meet those all of course we're here.

H

Seeking the site plan approval this evening, um adequate parking, we've already touched on that.

H

So I don't know that we need to anymore, and that can certainly be lessened now that there is no.

H

Intent for a tasting room or a need for any of the retail parking spaces that would have been there.

H

Again, my clients are willing to have a condition that there will be no promotional events on this.

H

Property, so that they don't, if we're not going to have them, they won't need to comply with those.

H

Sections of the ordinance, of course, um the same thing about the product, sampling and retail sales.

H

Of beer there, they may certainly I'm sure, on their property, have some type of administrative office.

H

Functions just because they are intending to run a business, but it'll be more for them individually.

H

And no again, they don't plan on having any any employees as we've discussed and then the maximum.

H

Footprint relates to the sampling area in those other spaces which again they're not seeking and.

H

Would welcome the condition that it not be there to alleviate the concerns of the neighbors. The.

H

The there is a definition in the zoning ordinance just to allow the the planning commission to know.

H

This- and this also touches a little bit on the question about the comments in the soil.

H

Conservation memo it's found in the definitional sections in the very back of the zoning ordinance.

H

And the definition simply says it's a facility operating under a class 8 farm brewery license.

H

Pursuant to section 2-209 of article two via the annotated code, um I think that portion of.

H

The annotated code is now called the alcohol article, but regardless that's the section that.

H

Applies to it um and again mike this is in the written staff report and I think we've.

H

We've touched on that enough, but to make it clear for the record uh one of the things my clients.

H

Will need to do is to obtain that license from the state and, as mentioned in the last part of.

H

This slide, you know there are conditions they need to meet. There are requirements, they'll need to.

H

Prove to the state they can meet if they are not successful in that, of course, your approval today.

H

Will not mean they can they can do brewing there? They need that state license in order to do it.

H

um And there is no minimum acreage requirement um in our ordinance there. I know that that.

H

Seemed to be some of the questions of some of the public comments that were made before the hearing.

H

um The um you know a couple other things just to touch on a lot of this. What we've already done, but.

H

In preparing for tonight, we didn't want to forget to raise these issues. It is an existing structure.

H

On the property, so it's not uh any construction concerns or adding a a structure. That's not there.

H

It's already there again, there's going to be no retail operations of any kind. No customers.

H

Coming in, as I read some of the letters that I know were dated before my clients.

H

Sent out their letter to all their neighbors explaining what they intended to do. There were.

H

Folks that were concerned about customers coming in and the size of the road and potentially.

H

You know drinking when they were at the brewery and then driving down that road. There would be.

H

No retail operations, so we hope that that'll address those concerns. We've talked about the.

H

Underground wastewater storage tank, we saw those concerns from the neighbors wanted to make sure.

H

It was clear that there would not be runoff that would be harmful as far as the wastewater goes.

H

I think mr stucker touched on this a little bit in response to your question. um Mr sinclair.

H

The spent grains that are not you know after the process is done. um There are local farmers that.

H

Are interested and and the stuckers are working with them to provide those spent grains to local.

H

Farmers so that they can use them in feeding uh their animals um and again, this is a very small.

H

Business there are some concerns raised ahead of time um that it, you know, would be large or there'd.

H

Be a lot of employees or a lot of customers. Of course, what you've heard tonight shows that that.

H

Is not the case, um and then we have the the concept site plan criteria. I'd be happy to.

H

Run through these um once we you know hear from from any public comment that'll be here tonight.

H

But that's essentially, I think the facts of the of the proposal that may not have been clear.

H

In the um either staff reporter to some of the neighbors and some of their comments.

H

I would like to say- and this is on board docs um and I'll- stop sharing that now and we can um get.

H

Back to it, if we need any of the slides, there is a copy of a letter on board docs that my clients.

H

Did send out to their neighbors and to the names of individuals they had to address.

H

Some of the concerns that they heard at the last hearing date before it was continued.

H

And to try to address those in a proactive way, I know I have here in front of this planning.

H

Commission and and the board of appeals as well often- and I know there is often the the comment.

H

That folks should try to work with their neighbors and keep them informed of what they're doing.

H

I was very pleased that my clients wanted to do that and they did that.

H

I'm of their own accord, so we would just like to know that that's in the record and that it's on.

H

uh Or docs, as as part of the materials there, I think you've heard a lot of what their plans are.

H

But of course they're both here willing to answer any questions. So mr hunt, um it's here, if you have.

H

Any questions specific to the site plan um we'll be happy to answer them and then I know we'll have.

H

An opportunity for public comment. I would like to reserve the right to address any of those after.

H

And do a brief summary uh once any neighbors or other members of the public have spoken.

A

Okay, any questions yeah. I have a. I have a quick question.

F

um uh So, uh mr longmore, I, uh as I mentioned before, we started I reached out and downloaded.

F

uh Information with regard to brewery licenses- um and I uh there were three uh and mr stucker.

F

Just shared that he was operating, uh I guess in calvert, under uh under the five license.

F

um And this information I got is from the university of maryland.

F

Agricultural law, education initiative- there are- there are a couple of paragraphs in here that sort.

F

Of stood out uh one of them- uh and let me say this- um I'm I'm not interested in getting in the way.

F

Of any small business in st mary's county, you know a lot of us spend a lot of time, making sure that.

F

We could do distilleries and wineries and and breweries. um I don't know- and I understand what.

F

You're saying about the czo currently I will tell you that the original impetus for the farm brewery.

F

Was to try to find ways for added revenue uh for for farmers, and that was and of course, the the.

F

Tobacco buyout is, is, is behind us now, but that was really the impetus and it really wasn't meant to.

F

uh It really wasn't meant uh to be uh probably the way it's written so but uh and that's but.

F

That's that's the way it's written now so anyway. My comment is this: um in in the first pair and one.

F

Of the paragraphs here it just goes on and on and I'll read it maryland has created a few new liquor.

F

Licenses that make small scale brewing brewing easier. One of these is a class 8 farm brewery.

F

License the license is just for farmers and is especially useful because it allows for on-site.

F

Consumption of the beer not just sale, any former with a class eight for uh farm burglary, license.

F

May sell deliver beer from the farm brewery to a wholesale company or directly to an individual.

F

For consumption, I'm going to read that into the record. The other part that I see on the second.

F

Page of this, which I need someone to explain to me who the pecking order we talked about this earlier.

F

Whether it's federal state, my and my background, it's always been, you know I want to do what's.

F

Best for the county- and I want the county to make its own decisions. I don't want the state.

F

To make decisions for us, but sometimes we find ourselves where we find ourselves with regard to.

F

Decisions made by others other than us anyway, in this paragraph it states another federal law.

F

Another federal law to be to bear in mind is that commercial alcohol production uh cannot occur on a.

F

Residential property, even if your land is zoned as agricultural, your home, if it's on a farm is.

F

Federally considered a residential property, you will need to provide a variance uh from.

F

From indicating that the residential portion of the property is perhaps on a separate parcel or.

F

That the prospective brewing site is not part of the residential section of your property.

F

And I only I bring this up for one reason: I bring it up because what I don't want to have happen.

F

Whatever happens here tonight, I don't want to have someone move forward with a with a project.

F

And find down the line that there's there's an issue with the state that prohibits them from.

F

Going forward or there's an issue with the federal government that uh prevents them from moving.

F

Forward that is not beneficial to anybody, and so I I bring that up just for that information.

F

Chris and I I don't know what to do with it- I mean other than that. You know the information I got so.

H

Well, no, no, we appreciate that and I think um coincidentally- and I don't know if you saw this.

H

Mr evans, on or docs I think, and I apologize I'm looking at it to make sure I have the.

H

Number correct um on public comment: number 26 right. I think there may be a copy of that.

H

um From the you know, maryland university of maryland extension, the last point just.

H

Yeah, I'm sorry the last point to let you know and and.

F

Yeah I was going to say: is I a lot of things I downloaded before I got the got the information.

F

So uh yeah, but anyway it's just information. Yeah I mean I right and and the question about the.

H

The residential use on the property, my clients are well aware of that. They had told me about.

H

It before I saw that come up online. They had actually had that material as well.

H

You'll see that there is essentially part of the application where you need to inform.

H

The regulatory agencies, the federal and state ones that there is a residential use on the property.

H

Right and you need to get their permission from my clients know: there's a risk that might not be.

H

Approved but they understand that risk and they're willing to go forward with it. But I appreciate you.

H

Erasing that tonight and they they are aware of them, intend to to pursue that. So if I could.

H

Just uh quickly maybe address the um I'm sorry, if I could address the pecking order, question.

L

It's our understanding that we get a local approval first and then that local approval.

L

Is then used to assist with getting the state and federal licenses? Neither of those two things.

L

Can go forward without a local approval and uh we went through this process once.

L

Before, on a little bit smaller level, with our class five license and have the same variance.

L

Had to get local approval in caliber as well and uh and went to the process, then so that's the.

L

Way we understand it, we must get the local county uh approval first, for the brewery.

L

And then we use that approval to, in essence, as part of the application process right.

F

I don't question that my my concern is, and I understand what you're what you believe to be.

F

True, what I don't want to have happen is, if you move forward the federal people. Look at you and.

F

Say well, why are you here you you were told you can't do this. Based on this information, I mean I.

F

You know I I'm telling you I mean I'm not. I don't want to get in your way. I'm just trying to explain.

F

To you that you know, I've been in business for a while, and so this due diligence thing is like an.

F

Albatross around my neck, I cannot not do it, so I want to make you aware that, however, this goes.

F

That moving forward on the state could get in your way, because the state does and the federal.

F

Government can certainly get you away because that's what the federal government does so just.

F

Just saying mr weiskoff, could I ask you a question so if we were, let's just say we were, we would.

A

Move forward with this tonight- and I know they've asked some conditions about. You know the sale and.

A

Not having the sale could could a condition be that you know they have to get those, or is that.

A

An automatic that's automatic, I mean where we, this is no different than any concept site plan that.

G

Comes before you, this is the very beginning stage right. Here's here's the drawing. We have here's our.

G

Concept, do you approve it or not? If you do then they've got to go to final site plan approval to.

G

um To log them and all those things are answered right of the adequate public facilities. You know.

G

Final call is made on that, um then the state I just right just wanted to to clarify whether we.

A

Had to no condition, you know, for example, and I don't mean interrupt you, I'm sorry, that's right.

G

I'm used to it go ahead, but it'd be like somebody coming forward wanting to uh build a bar right.

G

That here's our plan for the design of the bar, knowing full well that they've got a.

G

You know at some point in time go in front of the alcohol beverage.

G

Associ, you know commission board, I'm sorry alcohol beverage board and request that they.

G

Get a license, they could be turned down right. It's it's not a right! It's a privilege. Okay,.

G

So it's no different than that, and so, and so I have another follow-up to that. So.

F

So so, when, when an applicant for anything doesn't matter whatever, it is right, they would in my what.

F

I would do I would go out to the powers to be and say this is what I want to do. Can I.

F

Do it right, is it possible for me to do it? You wouldn't build a garage first, I would not, and no.

F

And so I mean I would go to edc, I would go to land using growth management. I would ask the question.

F

Right- and I mean I don't- maybe this is for them uh the applicants, but I I wouldn't just right. Hang my.

F

Head on this, I'm sorry, I would of certainly my understanding of the variance required at the.

G

Federal level regarding the house is a pretty pro forma type thing. You know it sounds like.

G

They've got one before so they're, probably of the same but yeah. Now that will be out of our hands.

G

Oh certainly certainly, but if they don't get it they're, not it doesn't matter that you've approved.

G

It or not that that's, I would rather say it here tonight than find out down the line. I'm not going.

F

To drink any of that beer, at least not from here from that location, I mean I just you know I just.

F

Want everybody to understand what's ahead of them, certainly, and perhaps they and perhaps they do.

F

um But I feel better about actually saying it so right all right, mr physiques, mr thompson, thank you.

E

um I'm just really confused that there's any discussion whatsoever about if this.

E

Is a farm or not? I grew up on mr spicer's property. Mr spicer had 100 acres in pennsylvania.

E

And he, when needed the money he subdivided and 50 acres became.

E

The subdivision that I grew up in and I was at a dead-end street next to his 50 acres of property.

E

When his wife died and he got old, he took about 48 acres of that and leased it to a.

E

I don't determines now but sharecroppers somebody who came and and and and farmed on his land.

E

But he had, you know no, no um other involvement with it other than owning the land.

E

On his two acres, it's the two acres that I live right next to he produced apples, peaches,.

E

Strawberries, a little bit of soybean, you know and a few other things I'm not even aware of.

E

And pretty close to us in our own township, we had townships in pennsylvania, uh we had the 4-h club.

E

And the grange fairgrounds, mr spicer, would win almost every category.

E

For the stuff that he farmed on his farm.

E

He lived in the property, it was about two acres, so the fact that they were even questioning.

E

Whether or not this is a farm or not, is just way over my head, I just don't understand.

E

It just it's just it doesn't make any sense. um When I drove out today.

E

I didn't see a walmart, I didn't see somebody trying to develop a dollar store, a dollar general.

E

You know, I saw agricultural activities, I saw people growing crops.

E

I'm not a farmer, I don't know what kind of crops they were. I don't know you know.

E

You know how viable they were, but clearly the property is being used in agricultural purposes.

E

So I think that this board should be you know taking that yeah, that that variable.

E

Out of the equation, you know we're talking about a farm and somebody who lives on the farm and.

E

They want to continue the farming that was done on this property, probably for hundreds of years.

E

Now they they are not fifth, sixth, seventh generation. You know and that's fine, but at some.

E

Point that property was sold and with that selling of the property sold the rights of certain parts.

E

Of the property this new, this owner now wants to continue farming on his property, and I don't see.

E

Where there's any contention any issues with them, continuing that long.

E

Practice of a farming on their property. So that's my statement. That's all! I have to say.

A

Anybody else have any questions. I do. I have a question, um mr and mrs stuckert. um This obviously.

N

As you know came before us back in february, and I noticed that on may 1st, you sent a letter to your.

N

Neighbors um clearly outlining your plans and um trying to calm them down and address some of the.

N

Concerns that they have had so my question to you is, and- and this is just you know along the lines.

N

Of you know, goodwill and and being good to our neighbors. Have you heard back from your neighbors.

N

Since you sent that letter on may 1st, have you um had any communication with him whatsoever.

N

Since then good question, yes, uh actually I had one gentleman call and uh uh one that had signed the.

L

Petition uh opposing um and letting me know that he appreciated the letter and our sentiment in.

L

That letter and uh he changed his mind and um and now supports the brewery. So we had one call. That's.

L

The only uh only interaction I've had, but did you have some others? I did receive one call as well.

K

Not from the dirt portion of the road, but a little further down on the paved portion.

K

And they said the same thing that they truly appreciate. The fact that we sent out the letter.

K

There was apparently some miscommunication. They didn't understand that what we were asking for.

K

Was in fact what we were asking for, they were under the impression that we were going to have.

K

Something much larger with a lot of customers and big events and fireworks and concerts and.

K

That's not the case at all, so they were just very appreciative.

L

And if I could add, I mean we're not developers, we we're not used to doing I'm not especially.

L

Not used to doing this kind of thing and had I known that I needed to reach out to.

L

Our neighbors as such and explain a little bit more. I almost certainly would have done so.

L

And I certainly didn't mean to cause any uh any uh contention there um and I we hope that that.

L

Letter kind of satisfies some of their concerns. I I we understand, probably not all, but uh we hope.

L

And it's our sincere um promise to our neighbors that we were not going to have. We are not going.

L

To have customers out of the brewery we're not going to disrupt any more than uh just getting.

L

To and from our brewery ourselves in our home, thank you, oh and I got a question, mr vancouver.

D

uh Mr miss deckard, um you guys are very lucky that most of my.

D

Questions have been answered, so you'll have me very short, just a short time.

D

um I noticed earlier you guys said that you're not going to be having a tasting room. No events.

D

So will the sole purpose of the um class 8 farm brewery be brewing on site? I know you'll haul.

D

It all for sale or whatever, so the only thing you're going to do there other than growing.

D

Whatever percentage you choose, because there's no limit on on that for free use is brewing.

L

Yes, absolutely we're brew and we have a separate limited distribution license which.

L

Allows us to uh distribute that period to local retailers, sure and that's our plan. Okay, um if.

D

Sorry, that's: okay! Go ahead. I was just if we, um if we have time with everything else, that's going.

K

On that, we may come to a point where, rather than just kegging the beer we might can it or bottle it.

K

It's just gonna depend on time. Like, like dave, said we both work, full-time jobs.

K

um So it's kind of hard to find time to brew and bottle and design labels and.

K

But we're trying, but I mean that's still part of the brewing. The only reason I'm asking that.

D

Is because some of the letters that was sent in gave 20 different things that this license allows.

D

You to do on the property at some high levels, but I guess the only reason I'm asking you is because.

D

If, if all you're doing is is brewing, and I mean you still- we would know that you.

D

Have to package it somehow, whether you do a keg or a bottle or a can.

D

I don't consider that tasting or events or consider that part of the brewing I'm assuming.

D

That that would have to you know you got to do something with it. However, you haul it out of there.

D

I guess what I'm asking is. I think mr longmore had indicated that.

D

You would have no problem with conditions if this was to move forward in an affirmative way.

D

Of strictly saying that, even though you're getting a class a.

D

Farm brewing license you would be willing to limit it to brewing is. Is that what you were.

D

Saying earlier we're actually requesting that? Okay, yes, we're actually requesting that you give us.

K

The conditions, okay, to say that we are not allowed to do those on the property. Yes, just.

L

A note our our previous last, the class five uh in calvert, we're also allowed in a residential area.

L

And we didn't have any customers or any tastings, or so these are conditions that we're all used to.

D

Okay. Thank you, mr evans. I have a quick question for.

F

Stuckards you guys are currently are previously or currently you have a class five currently.

F

Is that right that you were using in calvert? So what is the the upside of moving from a five to.

F

A farm brewery for you guys I mean, is there a reason for for for doing that I mean. Is there an.

F

Upside to doing that, given all the restrictions we're talking about, I I mean I don't know.

L

uh Sorry, we uh we, uh unfortunately, our screen had uh seized up there and everything was kind.

L

Of frozen yeah, could you repeat that question you're actually gonna make me say that again.

K

I'm so sorry this is great, so currently, you're operating with a class 5 license.

F

Is that right or you have a class 5 license you're, not making beer, so people are operating with class.

L

Five, we're not right now well anyway, but you had a class five license so now, you've applied for a a.

F

Farm distillery license so what's the upside, I mean. Typically, you make you move from.

F

One license to another because there's a benefit to that. So what what? What's the.

F

Benefit I mean I don't because I'm not number of business. Could you share that with me.

L

Well, essentially, um for our purposes is actually more restrictive.

L

We had a class 5, which is a pretty much an unrestricted industrial manufacturing license.

L

It did limit you on on any anybody coming to a brewery because there's you know, there's.

L

A three-tier system, which includes the bird, the distributor and the retailer, but for us.

L

We wanted to do um the way it benefits us is we we wanted a farm or the processes for the.

L

Farm the ingredients in the farm, which is the purpose of us, trying to buy a bigger piece of.

L

Property here in st mary's and use that in our our craft beer, we wanted something local.

L

We wanted something that we could source locally say that we we made it or created. We didn't just.

L

Put ingredients together; we, we grew it from the earth ourselves. At least a portion of the.

L

Small portion and then we can try to source it from other local areas. Like I said previously,.

L

That's really the intent, it's really have a local craft brewing product and we thought.

L

We could best do that uh with a farm brewery, so we can. It may allow us to do as yes, sir.

L

So, with your class five, you you did not you didn't do that. I mean you didn't.

F

You didn't wind up using local ingredients, that kind of stuff you wind up, getting it from.

F

Amazon or whoever you got it from, we had tried yeah, we had tried it and actually that's kind of.

L

The genesis of the idea, as we were, trying more and more to use maryland source ingredients and.

L

There's no limitation to doing that in a class five, um you know really the difference was. Is.

L

You know we're a very small one barrel system. We want to go to a little bit. Bigger, have a little.

L

Bit bigger area and grow a lot of the stuff ourselves and that's really good and we felt.

L

A class eight was more suitable yeah, so the one of the impetus with regard to farm distilleries.

F

With regard to what mr facica said, one one of those was that farmers were going to have a.

F

An opportunity for another revenue stream and that they would be able to to.

F

Use grain, whatever hops, whatever that was generated on the farm, that was the impetus really.

F

For the farm for the farm uh uh brewery, I mean there's other opportunities, you you know that well.

F

And the county has addressed those as as well. So that's why I was asking about the.

F

Difference in the between the two licenses, because with regard to again to mr fusicas.

F

Back in those days, you know we, we were looking for opportunities for farmers.

F

To be able to subsidize their farms because of the tobacco layout um back, you know back in the day.

F

And so having product that came off of their off of their farms was important, so tobacco.

F

Barn distilleries, for example, grows corn. Now it it gets other grain from other places.

F

Certainly- and I'm happy about that, especially if it's local, so I just want to address what what it.

F

Was put in place for now, whether that's where it is now um that was the impetus of having the farm.

F

The the farm, breweries distilleries wineries and all the rest of that, so thank you appreciate it.

A

Any other questions miss robert. Yes, I have one more question. I believe it's for our lawyer.

J

J

My only question um is: can we legitimately restrict the zoning regs that are published.

J

By that I mean you know where it says: a farm brewery making oh put conditions on them. Certainly.

G

You you regularly do that from from time to time and you're certainly allowed, and in this case it's.

G

You know, sometimes I guess the question would be, you know, are you being too restrictive or.

G

Are we delving into the you know, quote unquote takings area arena, but mr longmore's clients, the.

G

Stuckerts have made this really easy because they want those conditions if it if it gets improved.

G

So you certainly can do do it. Does that make sense yeah if somebody, if somebody tried to overrule us.

J

Wouldn't no could they not on that regard now? Okay, fine! Thank you. You're welcome anybody else.

A

Okay hearing none, we got two options. I have one question for our attorney.

M

uh Mr, mr chairman, yes go ahead, can you hear me yes, sir? Go ahead, mr sinclair.

A

Go ahead, mr watson, what prevents anybody else in the rpd of having.

M

Can you hear me yes, sir? I I know the 7th district is a long ways away.

M

But can you hear me now, yes, sir.

M

Can you hear me, mr weiss call yes, sir, I can okay. So what prevents anybody else.

M

If, okay, what prevents anyone else in the rpd with three acres of ground or doing the same thing.

G

Absolutely set a precedent, in other words, if I had three acres and decide to want to put up okay.

G

No, no there's absolutely nothing. I mean thank you in full disclosure. Mr um well, that's fine.

A

Thank you, okay, anything else. All right, we've got two options. We can.

A

Move right into public testimony or we can take a small small break.

B

I have three people waiting. At least we have three people waiting at least.

A

We are now opening public testimony. um I ask that, uh as you call in you, give us your name.

A

And address please, and I will give you the both one at a time as we go um brandy, you.

A

Want to see who the first one off is yep. Let me see if I can do this right, give it a good shot.

B

You have reached the saint mary's county planning, commission public hearing for 20-132-011 britain.

B

Bay brewery request for concept, site plan approval, please state your name and address, and.

B

Chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask questions.

O

My name is rayfield larue and my address is 22795 longmore street leonardtown maryland two zero six.

O

Five: zero! Okay. Could you give me your name one more time, please rafeeo larue r-a-p-h-a-e-l.

A

Okay, sir, do you declare and affirm raise your right hand? Please do you.

A

Declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

P

I do okay. Thank you, sir. Go ahead with your testimony. You have three minutes.

O

Okay, well um I uh my name once again, my name is rayfield larue, I'm a co-proprietor of.

O

Burger gardens and beer garden at shepard's oldfield market. My mother was online as well.

O

And she is also a co-proprietor of the beer garden. However, it's just a little bit past her bedtime, so.

O

She has to hop off. However, I will say that I believe I speak for her when I uh state that.

O

You know we were both here today to voice our support for the approval of bretton bay brewing.

O

Concept type plan uh they have uh we've. Actually, our beer garden has been fortunate enough to.

O

Have had the opportunity to be one of the first bars to carry their products back when they had.

O

Their previous license- and they have proven themselves to be exemplary members of the small.

O

Business community they, uh when you I believe I heard one of the members- speak about goodwill and.

O

I don't know that I've ever met any business owners that had any more goodwill than dave.

O

And jada they directly through their efforts helping us um when we were just a fledgling.

O

We just had the just the thought of opening a bar. They have been there to support us non-stop.

O

And I I can honestly say that I don't know that our bar would be open if it wasn't for their.

O

Tutelage and their guidance and their friendship and our partnership with them. So I just wanted to.

O

Comment on today's meeting and and state that they said you know they are exemplary.

O

Members of the small business community and and and I believe I personally believe that.

O

Their brewery will not only benefit our business community will will benefit our residents as well.

O

um And I can tell you from personal experience that there is a whole.

O

Lot of demand for their products, so with that being said, um that.

O

That is my public comment. Okay, are there any questions from the board from mr la real.

O

ah No sir, mr lawmore, do you have any.

A

Questions no. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you, sir, for calling in.

P

Thank you, okay, we'll take our second.

A

B

Good evening you have reached the saint mary's county planning, commission public hearing for.

B

20-132-011 britton bay, brewery request for concept site plan approval. Please state.

B

Your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make.

B

Your comments or ask questions jay. Could you give us your name and address? Please.

B

B

Hello, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Did you hear what I said.

Q

Yes, I said my name is karen wathen elder my rep. My address is 401 45 watson, road leonard.

Q

Town maryland standby for the oath okay, before I give you the oath, what was your last name? Please.

Q

uh It's elder e-l-d-e-r, okay, thank you. Okay, do you raise your right hand and do you declare.

A

An affirmative penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may.

A

Give will be the whole truth and nothing, but the truth. I do okay. Thank you. Go ahead.

Q

I just like to say that I am the immediate neighbor of the property and discussion.

Q

Today I want to start by saying I prepared a statement which has been you know, I'm going.

Q

To just toss that out the window and say I'm just gravely disappointed in the lack of communication.

Q

And transparency that we have had with the suckers, I want to start by saying that, initially, when this.

Q

Concept site plan came to be in july of 2020. There are several comments on the facebook page of this.

Q

Business saying that the intention was to have the public come back to our property and have.

Q

A tasting room in addition to that we asked the stuckers when they moved in my husband asked: do.

Q

You intend to have the public come back here. The answer was yes, so for everyone to say on oath that.

Q

Obviously, this is not what they want to do now. I think it's important for the planning.

Q

Commission to understand that when I petitioned the road, when all of these months have gone by.

Q

We have heard nothing from them. um I'd like to also ask a couple questions um that you know.

Q

I I want to have a good relationship with my neighbors I'd like to share that this piece of.

Q

Property has been in my family for over 200 years and the comment that why is this even in question.

Q

I want to come at that from a different angle. The question here is that the stuckers don't own.

Q

The farm that you travel through to get to their residential property- um I don't understand.

Q

How we can consider this, not a commercial business, I don't understand how this would have.

Q

Zero impact on my community and my way of living if you travel the property which some of you did.

Q

You'll notice that there's a house right before theirs, I'm right there on the edge of the road, not.

Q

Just the dust in the dirt I have dogs, I just had a baby. I have a child that why? Why should it be.

Q

That I have to fence my property in and change my way of living for the sucker to benefit on their.

Q

Own business and profit on their own business. Next to my property, um like I mentioned earlier, it is.

Q

It is a huge disappointment to us that they didn't just knock on the door when they moved.

Q

Into the neighborhood and say hey, this is what we had in mind. um The letter came after.

Q

uh I don't, however, many months so the letter was addressed on may. First, the letter was.

Q

Never addressed before the position came of the neighborhood before we wrote publicly to say that.

Q

It was said on facebook several times it is said in the community um that they have bigger plans.

Q

For this than what they're making this appear, furthermore, I'd like to add that to have a farm.

Q

Brewery and then pass this as presidents in the community with all of these conditions on it.

Q

Feels a little backwards. You know if we have to pass this by saying, but you can't do x x.

Q

And x, then, is this setting a good example of saint mary's county bringing breweries down? I mean if I.

Q

Lived in wildwood, this would never happen. um You know this is a totally different situation and I.

Q

Just want to ask a question to the board that we'd, like clarification on, if they're going to be no.

Q

Employees to this business aside from the owners, how are you going to operate a tap room in another.

Q

Location, this beer that you're going to make on this this piece of property, this residential piece.

Q

Of property, um how how's that going to work? If this is your part-time, gig you're, going to open.

Q

Up another place where you're going to serve the beer off of our property, which is great.

Q

I just am curious how you can run a business with zero employees, part-time.

Q

And do that, in addition, there is a road maintenance agreement in place.

Q

To date, the suckers have not paid their road maintenance, they haven't tried to come pay.

Q

Their road maintenance, since all this happened, so I just want to mention that that road maintenance.

Q

Agreement is also for a resident. It is not for a business, so I think when you're adding a business.

Q

To that agreement, I I'm just curious from a legal perspective and I'm not a lawyer. Does that change.

Q

The terms of that agreement- I don't know the answer to that, and I certainly would like to know.

Q

I don't want bad blood with my neighbors, but I want to preserve the quality of life.

Q

And the agricultural integrity of this farm, the way that my ancestors would have wanted me to.

Q

So um I just want to further iterate that this proposal not only presents dangers to.

Q

The residents of the watson road community, but it also threatens the preservation of our farm um in.

Q

This operation, I hope, they're successful- I hope they grow, but I really hope they do that somewhere.

Q

That is not an immediate neighbor to my farm, and that is my public comment. Okay, thank you.

A

um Questions from the board first position, um so your statement is that your family's owned the.

E

Property for a couple hundred years um have you: has the property only been for residential use.

E

Or is there any farming um done on this property before it um was transferred to the stuckers.

Q

I'm sorry was that that you're you're not coming through very clear. Are you asking.

Q

If this is the first commercial business, that's been on the road.

E

uh What I'm asking is, prior to the stuckards, owning this property.

E

Was the property and the property where you live and and the adjacent properties.

E

Only used for primary residence or was there other activities taking place on these properties.

Q

Sure I think you're referencing, the previous owner of the home there did have a logging business.

Q

And I will say this: he also maintained the road and he also paid road maintenance to us. His.

Q

Entire time that he lived there in addition to maintenancing the road, so I will say that with.

Q

The condition of yes, somebody else did run a business, didn't involve alcohol. It was a.

Q

Little county guy home business sold a little firewood. It was totally a different operation.

E

Okay, so what I'm hearing is that your family and the prior owners.

E

Use this property for business purposes, but that your concerns are that the stuckers.

E

Have not contributed their fair portion to the maintenance of the private road. Is that correct.

Q

uh Yes and no, um the prior owner of this property was actually a relative.

Q

Of our family, so it changes the game when the person that is doing this is a part of your family.

Q

On your family farm right, but the property has been sold by your family to a different.

E

A different entity, uh the stuckers, so they do not have any less rights to that property. um As your.

E

Your former family, who owned the property, is that correct, I mean yeah. You can say certainly that.

Q

That's correct yeah, so so so so I I so what I'm hearing is that your concerns are that that these.

E

The current owners pay their fair share to maintain the private road.

E

um And that then they can then continue to use the property. Just like your family had.

E

Done in the past, in in some small volume, uh commercial activities such as selling lumber.

E

Or uh you know producing some some beer from the from the property is that correct.

Q

I didn't catch the last part. I'm sorry, can you repeat yourself? Well, I was just saying that.

E

The the stuckards are proposing to use the property for some financial gain. uh No.

E

Different than the former owners, which were relatives of yours um in that they are, you know.

E

They're, not logging, the property or or or selling um that resource that that natural resource.

E

For for financial gain, but they are producing a different uh non-logging uh natural resource.

E

uh Who they also, you know, are, are trying to um sell for financial gain, correct.

E

Correct, okay! So sorry! So what I'm hearing right now is that.

E

Your biggest concern is that this is not going to be a huge.

E

Wholesale, you know industry in your backyard and I'm not going to relate to that.

E

But it doesn't seem from what we were presented today that that's going to be the the the issue.

E

They are trying to do the same thing as your relatives in the past have done.

E

And they are growing something on their property. It's not trees. It's it's a hops and whatever and.

E

They are trying to sell it to the public, but but I do hear your concern about the the maintenance.

E

Of this private road and it's unfortunate that in the selling of this property from your family to.

E

A non-family member that this wasn't um in, at least in your terms. What I'm hearing is.

E

Not wasn't properly addressed, but I think that you know if we made some conditions in approving this.

E

Where the applicant is agreeing to pay their fair share and maintaining this private road.

E

That your concerns would be would be less correct, correct, but I also think that this speaks volumes.

Q

For the county and setting an example in looking at other people, think about how many people have.

Q

Farms that are like ours that somebody who was a relative either there was a divorce. There was a.

Q

Falling out somebody got bigger needed to move whatever, where you may have a parcel or two on.

Q

A farm, and then this will turn into what you can do in the future. You know a lot of farmers in the.

Q

Future may be impacted by this type of situation. If you drive back there and you see if they're.

Q

Successful in this, the continued traffic, the expansion there's no way of us knowing by just.

Q

Saying? Okay, you're not going to have a tasting room you're only going to brew on a small capacity.

Q

Which still has not been fully disclosed of how many barrels and gallons there's no clear number.

Q

um For anybody to go by, I you know I I can say yes, you are correct, but this is not the way that.

Q

The county would like to set the president. I don't think um on doing this. For the first time.

E

Okay well, thank you. Thank you.

A

Oh any other question: let me ask a quick question to miss elder. I think she asked a.

D

Question to the stuckers if they had employees- and I don't think that got answered- I think.

D

You stated earlier, you did have a few, but I wasn't 100 sure just to answer miss elder.

L

Yes, excuse me now: we we don't currently have any employees right now we're three families.

L

On the brewery uh we do have plans for downtown and leonardtown, which may include employees at.

L

That location, but there will not be any here at our personal residence or at the farm brewery.

L

And just um back to some other other comments, we'd absolutely make right our our responsibility.

L

For any road maintenance, I'd be happy to do so. We, our deed, is rather old when we bought.

L

The house we weren't quite sure who to contact or who or who to make that right with, but now.

L

We we certainly do know and we'll we'll make sure that that is made right when it's due in february.

D

Okay, thank you.

F

Mr mr stucker, do you currently have a copy of the road maintenance agreement? Has it been provided to you.

K

Yes, we do have a copy, mr evans. Okay, it was part of the deed when we bought the house.

F

Right, I know they traveled. I didn't know whether it was after the fact or not. Okay,.

A

Anybody else, mr lawmore, do you have anything any questions.

C

No questions. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Miss elder.

A

Okay, do you have any other callers brandie? Yes, I do.

B

Good evening you have reached the saint mary's county plan planning.

B

Commission public hearing for 20-132-011 britain bay brewery.

B

Request for concept, site plan approval, please state your name and address and chairman.

B

Thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

A

Okay, could we have your name and address? Please I'm thinking there must be a delay, hello,.

A

Caller, could you give us your name and address please.

D

I heard someone trying to talk, but I thought I heard someone trying to talk.

D

About something I think I heard myself in the background: oh that's what sounded like it.

A

I kind of recognized the voice.

B

It says connected caller. Could you give us your name and address please.

R

B

I can hear something, and I have the volume up. I think you can hear me is that you yeah, I like it.

A

Caller, could you give us your name and address please so somebody's there? I know that guy.

J

What do I do? What do we do, mr wise cough? If you can hear us call her.

A

Could you hang up and call back, please we're having a problem getting getting through to you.

F

The issue that the farmers have is that it's called foreign.

S

Good evening, good evening, hello, yes, good evening, you've reached the saint mary's county planning.

B

Commission public hearing for 20-132-011 bretton bay brewery request for concept site plan approval.

B

Please state your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take.

B

An oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

O

Yes, my name is matthew plant. I live at 43888, simon woodway, california, maryland 20619.

A

Okay, sir I'll give you the oath. Now, if you'd raise your right hand.

A

And do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses.

A

The statements you may give will be the whole truth.

B

And sir, can you turn, can you turn your your tv down? Please? Yes, sorry, thank you hold on one second,.

A

Sorry, there's just a flight delay: okay, go ahead, sir! You got. You have three minutes.

P

A

It's turned down. Okay, go ahead, we can hear you yep three minutes.

A

Mr mr plant, can you hear us you can start your testimony now. You have three minutes got it so.

O

I spent our I manage small business uh just 10 minutes away from where this meeting is being held.

O

I'm unaffiliated with the bren bay brewing uh business in terms of.

O

uh Actual financial connections- uh I I've worked with the owners on several ventures.

O

uh In terms of uh events and uh helping me with um equip our beer equipment and stuff.

O

I think it would be a disservice to the community, because I know that they were.

O

Brewing in a different uh county core right now they are trying to move into this community, bring.

O

Another small business there just nothing but charitable guys, they've done nothing but help us.

O

I do not know why we would not allow them in here. I do not know anything that they would bring to.

O

This community, that would uh be a negative to the community. I think they only bring positive. That's.

O

Really all I want to say, though, they're just they're great guys. I've worked with them before.

O

I think it would be a great addition to the community. Okay. Thank you, mr plant.

A

Hold on for a second, though, is there any questions from board members? Mr physique.

E

uh Matthew, you mentioned that you worked with them in the past on events um that just threw up a red.

E

Flag for me, because the applicants are stating that in in this capacity, there will be no public.

E

Tasting room or public events um so, um first of all I want to make sure that I heard you correct.

E

Is that correct what you what you said and then I'm going to ask the suckers whether or not.

E

That's applicable to this application. Is that correct what we said.

T

Today, yes, so dave only I'm sorry can you repeat the question. I could not hear you at the time.

E

You'd, like me, to repeat the question, would you like him to repeat the question mr plant.

O

I'm sorry, yes, I need. I need something to repeat the question. Yes, it's matthew, I I'm sorry. I didn't.

E

Get your last name there. um In your statement, um you mentioned that you worked with the zuckers.

E

In prior events, um and that um they were um upstanding people and- and uh I don't remember.

E

Exactly uh all you said, um but that rose a red flag for me because in this particular.

E

Application the applicant is stating that no public, tastings or events will take place on.

E

The property, so I just want to make sure that I understood your first statement before I asked.

E

The stuckert suckers a question so is that what you stated am I misrepresenting your statement.

O

Yes, the uh the events have been at the business that I manage. It's not been on their location ever.

E

Okay and so for the stuckers, then uh my question would be.

E

That that, just to clarify that, in this application um and assuming that it does go forward,.

E

That a condition of no public tasting rooms or public events would not be a concern on your part.

L

No sir, uh it would not be at our at our location. Those will not.

L

Be called okay all right, well matthew! Thank you for doing awesome, okay, matthew! Thank you.

E

For your testimony, okay, any other questions. Mr lawmore, do you have any questions for mr plant.

H

Thank you no questions, mr chairman. Thank you. Thank you, mr plant, for calling okay. Thank you.

A

Do you have anybody else randy? Yes, we do. Okay,.

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning commission public hearing for 20-132-011.

B

Bretton bay brewery request for concept, site plan approval.

B

Please state your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take.

B

An oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

P

Good evening my name is matt lillard. I live at 2052 in nancy lane leonardtown maryland. Okay, mr.

A

Willard, if you would, would you please raise your right hand and do you declare and affirm under.

A

The penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements that you may give.

A

Will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do okay, sir, go ahead. You have three minutes.

P

Yes, I just wanted to call in this evening and express our support for bretton bay brewing. We've.

P

Gotten to know them over the last six months we have my wife, and I say we.

P

We've been very impressed how well they've supported the local community and the local.

P

Businesses and we are fully in support of their effort to start this farm brewery.

P

We know that starting a business can be very difficult. Bretton bay.

P

Reached out to us, and then we worked with them to start our own business.

P

And um it is my understanding that bretton bay will be no less than the third farm brewery.

P

uh In the county, uh if they were to be approved, so we just wanted to call in and express our support.

P

For them in this venture, thank you, okay, hold on one. Second, sir, is there anybody on the board have.

A

Questions mr lawmore.

C

No questions, mr chairman, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, mr william. Thank you.

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning, commission public hearing.

B

For 20-132-011 britton bay, brewery request for concept site plan approval. Please state your.

B

Name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments.

B

Or ask your questions? My name is tom russell. My address is 41530 oxen court leonardtown maryland.

A

Okay, mr russell, if you would, at this time, raise your right hand and do you declare an affirm.

A

Under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be.

A

The whole truth nothing, but thank you. Thank you, sir. Go ahead, mr russell, you have three minutes.

U

Yeah I want to give my bona fides relative to the watson family. My.

U

Mother was barbara watson. She was the third of four children dating back.

U

To the 1920s 1930s and karen, the young lady, who called in earlier lives in my parents, former home.

U

Which, by the way, is the third home that's been in that location, that's how far back the farm goes.

U

I really am in a uh a state of emotional tumult and turmoil, and so, as my extended families, they.

U

Have listened to this, I really want to know how we got here and I'm talking functionally.

U

Back in february, we thought that the postponement was because it had been found.

U

That the brewery use was not compatible on in an rpd lot because it was not a farm went through.

U

All kinds of definitions about farms. Well now I hear what the interpretation is and I'm willing.

U

To make a bet that the due diligence did not turn that up, whether it was with edc or logam.

U

I would like to know what they had to say up front about this, because, where I'm going.

U

With this is, I would bet significant money that this interpretation came courtesy of mr longmore.

U

I have great respect for chris. I've done a lot of work with him over the years and this sounds.

U

To me, like lawyer, talk, I think if you go to that document, what you will find is that it's relative.

U

To those ancillary farm uses that were intended to be supplemental incomes to farmers and the.

U

Assumption was that the word farm was self-evident. In this case, we have, I think, a bastardization.

U

Of that interpretation in that, apparently it can be anything and therefore, if you have an rpd lot.

U

Anywhere in the county folks, you apparently can do a brewery. It does not make a whole lot of sense.

U

On the surface, and it doesn't make sense county-wide, I think that this is a minefield.

U

And I wouldn't be surprised if this is a problem in the future, which I bet it will be.

U

There'll be a language change or interpretation of a minimum lot size to constitute a farm.

U

I really can't express how upset the family is with how this all was done. They feel.

U

Pearl harbored by the process of the circuits, for whatever reasons and I'm not judging them, but they.

U

Did not do much of a job in making contact with any of the family members and I believe, there's.

U

Been one discussion about the road that was less than fruitful back in the winter time, the road is.

U

Hellish it's a gravel farm road, it freezes and thaws. It falls through. It's really not much of.

U

A road, however, the issue that I think needs to be discussed is water usage. I'm not a brewer and I'm.

U

Just doing the google machine thing here, but it looks like, depending on what your brew process is.

U

It can be highly intensive amounts of water where, if they're doing anything in the low to moderate.

U

Range of 200 gallons of beer, it's going to result in about 1500 14 to 1500 gallons of waste.

U

Meaning that the holding tank will be pumped every time that they brew a brew. A batch.

A

You got one, you have one minute, mr ross explored in terms of the math and what that what that means.

U

Or doesn't mean for the operation? I also want to talk about the road easement, I'm not familiar with.

U

The road easement, but is there any wording or verbiage in there that limits it to residential.

U

Traffic only because this, certainly, as mr sinclair said, is industrial or commercial or whatever you.

U

Want to use it's certainly not a load of soybeans going out or a load of firewood going out. um Let.

U

Me see what are other comments I made. Can you wrap it up? Mr russell, I think I'm going to. I think I'm.

U

Going to close there, I knew that this looks like a done deal based on this interpretation.

U

And we are shell shocked as a family unit. I can assure you of that, because this really is out of.

U

Left field: we assume that a farm was a farm, was a farm, and so uh I'm not doubting that there is.

U

No acreage requirement with it, but are we, are we loopholing? Are we living up to the intent of what.

U

The regulation was, and it was supposed to serve or have we found an end around, and this certainly.

U

Smacks of an end around it, it certainly looked like the folks in town. All along was to do this.

U

It's just that the watson, family and the rest of us feel like this was done in the dark.

U

That's the end of my comments. Thank you, mr ross. Any questions from board members.

A

Mr law, more, do you have anything.

C

No questions. Thank you, mr chairman. Okay, thank you, mr russell. Thank you.

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning commission public hearing for the bretton.

B

Bay brewery request for concept, site plan approval, please state your name and address and chairman.

B

Thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

Q

uh Hi, my name is stacey wathen. I live at 27202 barton street mechanicsville maryland.

A

Okay, uh if you would raise your right hand, and do you declare and affirm under the penalty.

A

Of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth.

A

And nothing but the truth. uh Yes, sir, I do okay go ahead. Miss waltham, you gotta, have three minutes.

Q

uh Just to reiterate the other points that have been brought up tonight, I think the main issue.

Q

Here is that this stuffers are not farmers, they have a residential lot of three acres. That's a.

Q

Garden, that's not a farm. um I think we're setting an incredible precedence here, as you approve this.

Q

You're basically saying anybody that has this amount of land can make a commercial brewery.

Q

On their property I mean, I know, the regulations you guys have said themselves are very fuzzy, but.

Q

At the end of the day, do you consider three acres of farm? I live on eleven acres with my.

Q

Boyfriend, we have chickens, we raise turkeys, we raise ducks. I don't consider myself a farmer.

Q

That's three times the amount of land that they have they're, not farmers. They have a garden.

Q

This was intended for farmers to supplement their income. They don't produce enough grain to even.

Q

Create their own product, they have to ship stuff in it's, not a farm. It's a garden! It's a hobby.

Q

If they wanted to continue their classified license, why didn't they do that? Why did they apply.

Q

For the farm license, they obviously wanted to use some of the other regulations to have extra. You.

Q

Know things like the tasting room and all that and as we heard earlier from this elder, that was not.

Q

Part of you know what they disclosed initially to everyone, so which was nothing, um but I just think.

Q

That it's an incredible precedent that you're going to set. If you prove this, I mean anyone that.

Q

Has a three acre lot in rpd is going to be able to have a brewery that just seems a little bit.

Q

Not what this was intended to do, which was to help farmers and she said herself they're, not farmers.

Q

And again, the issue of wastewater that was brought up before we're not entirely clear.

Q

What the production amount's going to be, what that was situation is going to look like no one has to.

Q

Clear numbers on that. The third point that I want to bring up is the road maintenance is one thing.

Q

And obviously, everyone needs to take care of the road and the increased traffic is going to cause.

Q

Some issues: what about liability? Are we liable as the landowners when people travel through.

Q

Our land to get to their property for something if something were to happen, god forbid, I mean.

Q

How is their business supposed to be the liability you know on our road? You know.

Q

I'm not a lawyer, but that clearly is going to be an issue as well like. I just don't see how you.

Q

Can buy a three-acre residential property inside of a farm and then call yourself a farmer. That's.

Q

Probably the end of my comment: okay, is there any questions from board member mr fazikas miss walter.

E

um I heard in your testimony that you stated that you lived in mechanicsville is that correct.

Q

uh I'm sorry, can you say that again uh you stated in your testimony that you live in mechanicsville.

E

Is that correct? Yes, I live in mechanicsville, but I mean full disclosure. I used to live in the.

Q

Property that this elder lives in now I've lived there for about 10 years before I brought the.

Q

Property of mechanicsvilla- and I am part of the watman family, which obviously owns the farm that.

Q

Is surrounding their property? I understand that. Do you currently own property along that um that.

E

Right-Of-Way the private drive I currently do not own any of the property that is surrounding the.

Q

Residents but I did used to be a resident of okay. This is elders property, which is right next to.

E

Now I I understand your concerns, but but at least currently with in terms of this application.

E

um There's no liability uh on your part or the part of your immediate family, meaning your.

E

Your husband, your children, etc. Is that correct.

Q

I mean I'm just thinking in terms of there's increased traffic or somebody comes in there's.

Q

An accident and it's on our part of the land I mean as a landowner, wouldn't the landowners be.

Q

Responsible for if something were to happen right, miss walter, I'm asking you: are you a.

E

Landowner on that property, or on that on that right-of-way, I'm not a landowner currently.

Q

But yeah, okay, okay, hopefully, yes, I will be a landowner of the property it's owned by.

Q

My father, who eventually will pass it to me so it will become my concern in you know when he passes.

E

No! No! Okay! I understand I understand. um As for your your second question, about the the wastewater.

E

um I think that was addressed earlier um with the plans they proposed uh with um the underground.

E

Storage tanks they would use that would be, um vehicles could could um get the words, but the.

E

You know could be on top of it and that that would be um pumped out on a regular basis. um So I guess.

E

You know I I'm just wondering what what is your concerns.

E

About this new property owner using the property, the way that your family and others.

E

Prior to your family have used it in terms of farming, because I I one more question. I.

E

Guess before you answer that, um have you been down that private drive um lately recently.

Q

I mean I've been all over that farm. I grew up on that farm. I've been.

Q

On every inch of that farm, okay, but but have you been there recently because.

E

I I drove by today- and I stayed that earlier in the testimony before this meeting started.

E

And I saw crops growing, so I don't know um where crops growing on a farm.

E

Does not indicate that they are farming, so can? Can you clarify that for me like what, in your.

E

Own mind and definition is, is farming, because if I saw crops growing on their on their property.

E

What does not what? What what in your mind and your testimony says that this is not a farm I mean in.

Q

My personal definition, I would say a lot of the lofts in bretton bay- are probably two or three.

Q

Acres you're telling me everyone in bretton bay has a farm because they grow tomatoes or they grow.

Q

You know uh some corn in their backyard like how does that make you a farmer there has to.

Q

Be a clear definition from either the county or the state or the government or whoever.

Q

That says this is a farm. This is what a farm is, and you guys yourself said that that definition.

Q

Isn't exactly clear for this license that they're trying to apply for so to me? It's.

Q

Like I have 11 acres, I raise chickens and turkeys and ducks. I don't consider myself a.

Q

Farmer, this isn't a farm that I live on. This is a house that has chickens and turkeys and ducks.

Q

A lot more clear if you're going to apply for a license that says farm in it farm brewery. What is.

Q

What is the definition of a farm? Yes? Well, miss miss walther, you you um you, you come up with a.

E

Good point, um and that is that the the definition of a farm is not consistent and a former.

E

Another uh board member uh brought that up both last week at a previous meeting and and today.

E

As well um so there is some inconsistencies in what defines a farm, and I will agree with.

E

You there's some ambiguity on what that is, um but for my own uh personal experiences.

E

I grew up with somebody who had only two acres and he was an elder in the community and he.

E

Was you know one of the number one farmers in the community for the the produce and that he produced.

E

In those little two acres um and unfortunately you know he had 100 acres to start with.

E

And he had to sell it off over time to to afford his lifestyle of continuing to be a farmer. So.

E

um You know the fact that you and your family do not choose to use your 11 acres. As you stated.

E

In farming is your choice and that's and it's great and I respect that, but this uh property.

E

Owner um who owns about three acres um uh wants to use their farming, their their their their property.

E

uh For farming and according to regulations that I'm hearing um in this in this testimony.

E

Testimonies hearing today, um they are without within their rights to use their property to farm.

Q

I mean I see the point there, but I mean anyone can have a garden. I love to garden, but I'm not.

Q

Sure that that really constitutes a farm in terms of the legal sense and the tax implications there.

Q

Or whatever else, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm just saying yeah, that's all I had to ask of you miss.

E

Butler. Thank you very much for your testimony. Any other questions. Excuse me from the board.

A

C

No questions, mr chairman, thank you. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Ma'am.

B

Thank you. Okay,.

B

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning, commission public hearing.

B

For the bretton bay brewery.

B

Good evening hi, can you turn your tv down? Please sure.

Q

There you go, thank you. Could we have your name and address? Please.

B

Can you please state your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask any questions.

Q

Yes, my name is geraldine larue. I live at 41635, camalier drive in lennontown maryland.

A

Okay, miss larue. I asked you to raise your right hand and do you declare an affirm.

A

Under the penalty of perjury that the statements responses and testimony that you may give will.

A

Be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do okay go ahead. Ma'am. You have three minutes.

Q

Okay, we do have a very bad connection. I can hardly hear you um but I'll go ahead and make my comment.

Q

uh What I wanted to address is, I am a business owner and my son did call in.

Q

Earlier of course, some testimony, but I do want to assure any question that anybody might have.

Q

About the stuckards holding um a tasting room or events at that farm is not going to happen because.

Q

I am in an agreement with them for them to leave space in my building at shepard's.

Q

Old field market for a little mini brewery and a tasting room there, okay.

Q

um Activities are going to be happening. Okay, thank you, ma'am. Is there any questions from the board.

A

Real quick is that an exclusive agreement that you would have the.

E

Any events and tastings at the old field market: um no, it's not exclusive, but I think the whole idea.

Q

Of their events is really in the brewery line of of seeing um you know.

Q

Beer being made they're going to have probably uh two or three small tanks in there with an.

Q

Area that you can see behind the glass and that's what people are coming for really.

Q

Because at any other bar, if you just want to sit down and drink something, you know, we've got.

Q

A number of bars in leonardtown that can be done. This is specifically a tasting room um and that.

Q

They're going to be having there and it's it's uh it's quite large, it's not just a small one.

Q

um That would be able to accommodate you know a number of people. Thank you, mr lero.

A

There any other questions from board members.

A

C

No questions. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Oh, what just happened there.

B

Where'd they go. Did you blow the phone up? Some people.

D

Maybe I'll call back all right.

B

Good evening you have reached the saint mary's county planning, commission public hearing for the bretton bay brewery.

B

Request for concept, site plan approval, please state your name and address and chairman.

B

Thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

S

My name is john held um address, is 21854 of potomac view drive, okay,.

A

Could you turn your television down please and I'll.

A

And if you could, could you raise your right hand and do you declare an affirm under the penalty.

A

Of perjury that the testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth.

A

And nothing but the truth. I can't hear you very very well, but my hand is up.

A

Well, I'm taking your word for it. He just gave you the oath yeah. No, I I got it. I I've taken the oath.

S

Okay, okay, yeah. I just can't really hear anybody over the line at all. Yes, sir, go ahead and with.

A

Your statements, you have three minutes, I thank you yeah, uh so I just wanted to speak on behalf. I'm a.

S

Small business owner of two businesses in leonard town and the way that I see it is, I have to order.

S

All of my beer, from out of the county and from somebody that's not from the county. That's always.

S

Lived within about a half an hour to 25 minutes of a brewery, I mean it really is painful. As a.

S

Business owner to have to order from out of the county, I think it's atrocious that it's coming.

S

Down to a tale as old as as old as time in the county, where it's a bunch of people with the same.

S

Last name calling about something that they don't want: everybody's talking about the 1920s and how.

S

Deep, their family goes. What about the future? When do we get to start looking after ourselves, when.

S

Can we get over the the way that things have been and start looking after the community and people.

S

That actually care about the town and aren't worried ab that aren't worried about just about.

S

Themselves and unfortunately it it seems like dave and jada have gone out of their way to offer up as.

S

Much as they want to do to help with the road and from what I've been told outside of dave and jada,.

S

They don't want that help they're, not here, to to to even entertain the idea that there's something.

S

Slightly responsible going down the street for the community, that's really all I have to say.

A

Okay hold on a second, mr hill. Is there any questions from board? Members can have a question.

A

Mr evans, you say: you're a business owner. Yes, sir good! Congratulations! It's it's hard! Being.

F

It's hard being in business. So absolutely I will tell you that there's nothing about! Mr mrs.

F

Stuckard that I don't want to see be successful. Quite frankly, I want to see them be successful.

F

But I would take exception to the fact that that there are people.

F

That that work very hard in this community, perhaps such as the stuckards to make make possible.

F

You being able to have a business in st mary's county, so I take exception to to your comment.

F

With with that regard, um I think that there are any number of businesses here.

F

That give back to the community every single day every day and so.

F

Again, I have absolutely uh no reason for the stuckards uh not to be successful uh and that's.

F

Not why we're here about the the success of the stuckers? um I would, I will tell you.

F

Everybody that called in and said they had great beer. I don't doubt that for one moment I would.

F

Be willing to bet you it's terrific beer, but we're not here whether or not their beer is terrific.

F

We're here with regard to uh the ability for them to open a um a farm brewery on a three acre parcel.

F

And whether or not they are wathens or whether or not whoever they might be.

F

People have the ability to call in and and and make these comments much like I'm making these.

F

So I appreciate you calling in because a lot of folks simply don't uh they sit on their hands.

F

And don't make don't make these comments, but so anyway, I appreciate you calling in thank you.

S

Okay yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Any other questions, mr lawmore.

C

No questions, mr chairman, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

B

Good evening you have reached the saint mary's county planning, commission public hearing for.

B

The bretton bay brewery request for concept site plan approval, please state your name and address.

B

And chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask.

B

Her questions, this is a harrison hoffman. I live at 28705 point lookout, road, loveville, maryland.

V

Two: zero six: five: zero okay, mr hoffman. At this time, would you raise your right hand.

A

And I'll swear you in. Do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements that you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do thank you, sir. You have three minutes. Go ahead. Okay, thank you um yeah. I just wanted to call in.

V

On behalf of bread and babe brewing, um I've known them for a couple of years now and I don't see any.

V

Issue with uh anything that they, you know, they've done everything the right way from the start.

V

They've been going through the right channels uh to get this accomplished, it's a dream of.

V

Theirs- and I don't see why anyone should turn down that dream. I myself, I actually have worked in the.

V

Brewing industry for roughly five years now and I actually used to work at a farm brewery myself.

V

And um as far as anyone who has called in to you know, deter this or show any concerns.

V

That to me sounds more like it's a family issue and not really an issue with the people who have.

V

Done everything the proper way and tried to accomplish the dream of theirs.

A

Okay, thank you, sir. Is there any questions from the board mr lawmore.

C

No questions, mr chairman, thank you. Thank you, mr hoffman.

B

Thank you. Thank you guys.

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning commission public hearing for the bretton.

B

Bay brewery request for concept, site plan approval, please state your name and address and chairman.

B

Thompson will ask you to take an oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

R

Zachary houston, steele, 44710, beechwood court apartment.

R

610 california, maryland sir, could you say your name again, please.

R

Yes, there is a zachary, houston, steel.

R

44710 beechwood court, california maryland.

A

Okay, could you spell your last name for me: s-t-e-e-l-e sierra tango, echo, echo lima, echo.

A

Okay, go ahead, sir. You have three minutes. uh Yes, sir. I'm a concerned citizen and I've been watching.

R

The entire briefing and uh I had a question uh earlier today- wait wait a second sir, before you.

A

Start mr steele, mr steele yeah hold on one. Second, I didn't give you the oath done it so many times.

R

Yeah, I cannot hear anything you're saying give me one. Second, okay, that's good! That bails me out.

A

Thank you. I am ready to take the oath sorry, your your comms are horrible right now.

A

Okay, uh raise your right hand, and do you declare an affirmative penalty of perjury that the.

A

Testimony responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I affirm okay. Thank you, sir. Go ahead. You have three yes minutes. I just well one thing: I'm trying.

R

To again concert citizen and uh earlier in the day, ms stuckert said that uh they had paid road.

R

Maintenance fees and someone called in saying that they uh weren't paying road maintenance.

R

Fees, I was just seeing that the council will be able to find out whether or not that is true.

A

Well speaking, for this one board member, I think we're going to straighten that out before the night's over with.

A

Just one board member's opinion, so, um mr longmore, do you want to make a statement or or the stuckers.

A

On that outstanding, sir, no, I I greatly appreciate that. That's my that's the end.

R

Of my comments, okay, thank you, sir hold on yeah and mr chairman. I can certainly speak to that. The.

H

And and jade or dave, certainly chime in with any any response you want to make. What I will say is.

H

I have looked at the road maintenance agreement. We see these types of road maintenance agreements.

H

All the time they are very old, they do say the property owner shall contribute.

H

They don't say where to send it to they don't say who collects them. It just says that the property.

H

Owners will kind of collectively maintain the road in proportionate shares, essentially.

H

I know my clients have said on the record: they're ready, willing and able to do that. I think dave.

H

When he testified before, uh when ms wath and elder testified said that the dues had not.

H

Gone to her, he I think, testified that now they know where to go to. I don't get the sense that.

H

They've ever had any that that are due they've only been there about a year.

H

Or less than a year now and the dues are annual, um so for all those, my clients are here willing.

H

To pay that I will say that has legally nothing to do with the application, but my clients, luckily.

H

Are willing to pay that and set on the record they will. That would be good if the clients get caught.

A

Up with the with the road maintenance agreement shows good faith within the neighborhood. I know.

A

They didn't have the chance before didn't know. Absolutely. I think they said now that they know.

A

They've yeah and I think they've said repeatedly that they will so okay. Mr chairman, just a quick.

D

Just a quick note, I don't know if has any bearing, but since I disclosed earlier in the meeting.

D

That I had looked up a couple deeds from the stuccourts and when they purchased from the house.

D

And I did see the road maintenance agreement. I just wanted to make the note that I did observe.

D

That I did not notice the word residential.

D

As I've heard from numerous letters and testimony, I'm not saying it has any bearing.

D

On me, I'm just saying it: I did not I've seen it in a lot of public comments and I I didn't look back.

D

Three or four deeds, but on the howls and on the stuckers I did not see the word residential use.

D

I just wanted to disclose that, so everybody knew same thing that I seen or didn't see.

A

Thank you, mr van kirk. Thank you. Is there any questions from the board members, mr lawmar.

A

Anything else no questions. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Okay. Thank you, mr steele.

B

Good evening you have reached the st mary's county planning commission public hearing for the.

B

Bretton bay brewery request for concepts like plan approval.

B

Please state your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take.

B

An oath before you make your comments or ask your questions.

W

Rita weaver wills, road damron.

A

Okay, miss weaver um this time I'll ask you to raise your right hand.

A

And do you declare an affirm under the under the penalty of perjury that the testimony.

A

Responses and statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

W

I do okay, you have three minutes. Ma'am go ahead.

W

Okay and I apologize if I'm.

W

Asking a question: that's already been addressed, I lost internet service part way through the meeting.

W

So I'm just kind of coming into this with with my question now so this is, this property is listed.

W

As residential and I looked it up and I saw the properties surrounding uh the applicant's.

W

Address- and they are also listed as residential with one large form listed as agriculture.

W

So, if approved this brewery in a residential area, would this not be setting precedence.

W

For anyone in the future to set up a brewery or another similar operation in a residential area.

W

And number two due to it being listed as a farm brewery, if approved through the process, if they.

W

Go through the whole process will the land then be eligible for agriculture exempt status.

W

And that's all I have to ask or say, but I'm going to stay on the line. So I can hear the response.

A

Okay, um I can't answer number two: okay, because that's a tax classification is.

A

That what you're going to say I can most I mean I'm not a tax person, but I just sold a 30-acre.

D

Art um property in the rpd um and it's under a current agricultural forestry management plan.

D

And to remain in the same status, they had to fill out that settlement paperwork. That said, it was at.

D

Least five acres is is from that property. I'm just saying that that was on this particular property.

D

Same zoning yeah same same use, um so I'm just saying I'm pretty sure it's five acres.

D

And I'm sure mr longmore knows he does more real estate than I do anymore. So.

A

uh Mr hunt, mr weiss, coffee, I want to make a statement about that. Is this a farm or.

A

Is this residential? I mean we've heard from the applicant that they're farming on on the piece of.

A

Property that they bought what you're seeing for residential? What everybody's, seeing when.

B

They see residential is the tax classification, that's how it's being taxed. The zoning is rpd.

B

Preservation, that's that's what I'm saying and they, but they farm on that and they can farm.

A

On that absolutely okay questions been answered. There you go. I just wanted to see if you all were.

A

With us, I'm awake, awake, okay, okay! Is there any other questions from mrs weaver, mr lawmore.

C

No questions. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you, ms weave.

W

Thank you, okay. Thank you think, one more.

A

Don't tease me good evening, you have reached the st mary's county county planning, commission.

B

Public hearing for the bretton bay brewery request for concept, site plan approval.

B

Please state your name and address and chairman thompson will ask you to take an oath before you.

B

Make your comments or ask your questions, sure I'm greg page. I live at 422-80 hanover court in.

T

Leonard town maryland, okay, mr page, before you get started I'll, ask you to raise your right.

A

Hand, and do you, declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury, that the testimony responses.

A

And statements you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

I do okay. Thank you, sir. You have three minutes. Go ahead.

T

Yeah, I just wanted to call in support of bretton dave brewing. I guess I also wanted to point out.

T

Having been on the property several times, um when you look at the size of the building, the bays.

T

That are there, the oil stains that are on the floor and then, when you go to the bottom of the.

T

Hill and you look at the number of bays in the covered area that is at the bottom of the hill.

T

It's fairly obvious that the previous owner operated a number of heavy vehicles.

T

And maintained those vehicles on the property, so I think any amount of additional traffic or wear.

T

And tear on the road would probably be minimal compared to that, so I guess I just wanted to point.

T

That out, specifically, I think you guys touched upon it a little bit previously, but I think.

T

Compared to the previous owner that any concerns about the roads or in terror is probably unfounded.

A

Okay, all right for that okay hold on a second. Is there any questions from any board members.

A

Mr lawmore no questions. Thank you, okay. Thank you, mr page. All right, thank you. Thank you.

B

Let me call kathy just to confirm.

Q

This is kathy garcia. We have no other public comments holding. Thank you kathy. Thank you.

A

No lucky 13.. Okay, that's good! It's good! All right! Having heard that, there are no more we'll.

A

Go ahead and close public testimony at this time, um I've heard a lot about holding tanks.

A

um But let's, let's keep going I'll test one later. Okay, um is there any rebuttal from you, mr.

A

Lawmore anything any statements you'd like to make after that.

H

No, I mean uh real briefly just uh I can summarize so.

H

So I can turn it so the board can start its deliberation to if it pleases the.

H

Commission I'll be very brief tonight. Is that appropriate to do now? Yes, sir, go ahead.

H

Okay, I mean, I guess, the the one, the one comment I'll make and I pop I think my mic is losing its.

H

It's a battery.

H

Can the board still hear me? Yes, sir.

H

Okay, thank you. um I guess the one comment I'll make is, and I feel like I have to I.

H

Didn't make any interpretation up about this use? All I did was read the ordinance and.

H

The ordinance says what it says about this use. This is a very straightforward application in my.

H

Mind- and I think the best evidence of the statement I just made is read the written.

H

Staff report that the staff put together that deal with our ordinance every day.

H

That's what they do, and there is no indication in here that this does not meet the the standards of.

H

A farm brewery as it's written into our ordinance. There is a state legislation that.

H

Says what a brewery license is my clients know they'll need to meet the conditions for that.

H

And our zoning ordinances- I know this planning commission knows if the county commissioners want.

H

To put a lot of restrictions on a particular use in a particular zone, they have a lot of.

H

Right to do so within their ordinance, they can make it a conditional use.