St. Mary's County, MD Planning Commission for St. Mary's County, 9 Aug 2021

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From YouTube: 8/9/21 Planning Commission for St. Mary's County

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Good evening, I'd like to welcome everybody to the august 9th meeting of the saint mary's.

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County planning commission, our meeting this evening is being recorded for the public record.

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Any comments made by anyone present must be recorded as part of the record.

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Therefore, if you have anything to say, you must come up to one of the microphones provided or when.

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Giving testimony online or by telephone please give us your name, followed by your statement.

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Your comments cannot be recorded and placed in the record unless they are done in this fashion.

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You are to direct your statements, questions and responses to the board only and we will direct.

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Them to the appropriate person for an answer. Please keep your comments to five minutes or.

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Less anyone testifying or asking questions during our public hearing will be required to take an.

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Oath- and we thank you for your cooperation- also silence your cell phones. If you would.

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Okay on our agenda this evening.

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After a review and approval of two sets of minutes,.

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Our one public hearing this evening is number 20-132.

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For the dollar, general merchandise, concept, site plan and.

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I got some, I need some more paperwork up here. The owners are danielle ridgel and the action.

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Requested is a review of a concept site plan for a 9 100 square foot, retail sales building.

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At this time, I'll introduce let the board members introduce their stealth, starting with bj.

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William hall, joe saint claire addie, robert howard thompson and joe van kirk, merle evans, joe fazekis,.

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Also with us this evening from land use and growth management is the director mr bill hunt.

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We have a planner brandy, glenn and another planner courtney jenkins. Our video media.

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Producer this evening is amy carter from the county attorney's office. We have david weiskoff.

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And we also have assistant to the county attorney. Mr john hauser's here.

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From the department of public works, we have mr john dietrich.

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And from the department of economic development, we have ms casey guidry with us this evening.

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Okay, moving right along, we have two sets of minutes.

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That were sent out to us. The first was a june 28th. Did everybody have a chance to review those.

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Any changes I have a motion to approve those still moved. I have a motion by mr evans.

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Do I have a second I'll.

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I'll second, mr physique, thank you, sir okay. I'm used to that roll call thing now, so I'm.

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Gonna stick with it. It seems to work. For me. Mr physique is your first on base tonight. Mr vazquez.

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How are you babe uh aye there you go. Sorry there you go yeah caught your.

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Floyd, mr van kirk aye, ms robert abstain,.

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Mr hall aye, mr sinclair aye, also vote for it. Okay, our second set of.

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Minutes are for the july 12th hearing. Did everybody have a chance to review those.

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Do I have a motion to approve them? I have a motion by ms robreck. Do I have a second.

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And second by mr evans, okay, mr physiqueus aye, mr evans aye, mr van kirk aye. It's robert.

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Hi, mr hall aye, mr sinclair, I don't know if you were yeah, you were here. Yes,.

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All right- and I do too okay got those done moving right along uh first case of the evening.

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uh Before we get started, if there's anybody, that's going to be making statements tonight, giving.

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Testimony or uh going to get up and speak anyone in any such fashion. If you would stand this time.

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And I'll swear you all in at the same time. And if you happen to want to speak, say if the lady right.

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There in the blue wants to speak later because she thinks about it. I'll swear you in at that time. I'm.

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Going to ask anybody that comes up for public testimony if they've been sworn in just to make.

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Sure do you declare an affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony responses and.

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Statements, you may give will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do okay. Thank you.

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Courtney said your world: let's go good evening, chair vice chair and fellow planning, commission.

B

Members, the agenda item- one for this evening- is concept site plan for 20-132-12 for the.

B

Dollar general mechanics bill. The concept site plan seeks approval for a 9 100 square foot.

B

Retail sales building the site is located at 26 311 north sand gates, road in mechanicsville.

B

Land use is rural preservation and the zoning is rural, commercial, limited rcl. The proposed.

B

Use type is 76 retail sales general, which are establishments engaged in high volume, retail.

B

Sales of goods and merchandise not specifically listed under another use classification, the.

B

Use types include: department stores, discount stores, retail warehouses and shopping clubs, home.

B

Furnishing stores, pharmacies and supermarkets and establishments engaged in retailing or wholesaling.

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Of building supplies or equipment, including lumber yards and implement tool and equipment sales.

B

The regulations for the rural commercial, limited district accommodate existing small scale.

B

Commercial uses serving localized markets in the county that are scattered along the highway and.

B

In some cases, clustered at intersections, where such existing uses are compatible in scale with.

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The character of the rural area and are devoted to a local market, their continued operation and.

B

Opportunity for reasonable expansion is consistent with the policies of the comprehensive plan.

B

Rcl districts provide for the continuation and limited expansion of such uses.

B

For the comprehensive plan, the rural preservation district includes prime farmland timberland and.

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Mineral resources lands agriculturally related industries and limited non-farm cottage industries.

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And low density, non-farm residential developments characteristic of the county's.

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Rural character, which are to be preserved for a wide range of economic and aesthetic purposes,.

B

It acknowledges continued non-conforming, commercial and residential activities on.

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Existing parcels throughout the district but limits their expansion or creation.

B

The public notice for the planning commission public hearing was.

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Published in the southern maryland news on july, 23rd and july 30th, the property.

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Has been posted in accordance with the czo requirements, section 21.3.3.

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Certified mail receipts have been received and have been entered into the record.

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Of this public hearing, as exhibit 1 and the agenda, was posted on the website on august, 2nd 2021.

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The concept site plan was reviewed at the tec meeting that was held on september 23rd 2020.

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Retail sales general use number 76 is a permitted use in the rcl district and requires site plan.

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Approval for all non-residential and multi-family residential projects that require major site plan.

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Approval a concept site plan shall first be approved by the planning commission.

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Before the major site plan may be processed for approval by the planning director, this is.

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A public hearing which enables all who wish to provide information to the planning commission.

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To do so in order to approve the concept site plan, the planning commission shall make the findings.

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That the proposed development is consistent with the comprehensive plan and applicable functional.

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Plans may be served by adequate public facilities, as required by section 70.2.2.

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Will promote the health, safety and welfare of the general public.

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Well, added adequately developed, recreational and other community amenities are provided in.

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Accordance with the comprehensive plan and the comprehensive zoning.

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Ordinance and is consistent with the chapter 62 design objectives.

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This concludes staff's report and is entered into the record.

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Of this public hearing, as exhibit two representing the applicant, is tim lessner with lorenzi dodds.

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And gunnel and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have for me at this time.

A

Does anybody have any questions of staff at this time? Mr evans.

C

Yeah, the the uh and the paperwork that you guys gave us staff report.

C

The administration data service engineering from the administration division is dated.

C

8 26 2015. is that accurate is that the last that they had for, for which this is from maryland,.

C

Department of transportation and it's entitled administration data services, engineering, division.

C

It's a turning movement report, it's what it is! Okay, but it's dated this one is dated 8 26, 2015.,.

B

uh I'm not sure I would defer to the applicant to answer that question. My question was: is this? Does.

C

This come from the applicant, or is this provided from maryland department transformation? um It.

B

Must have been provided by the maryland department of transportation, okay, okay,.

C

Okay, that's all right, we'll see we'll just we'll see where this goes.

A

Any other questions to staff.

A

Okay, mr lesner.

D

Good evening my name is tim lessner, I'm with lorenzi dods and gannell.

D

I've been the project manager for this project.

D

It thank you to staff for the presentation.

D

I'm not so sure exactly how you'd like me to go through this to answer your question.

D

This project went through the tec project last summer,.

D

Specifically, state highway has given us a concept, approval.

D

We've done a traffic analysis, apf analysis, that's been approved by the state highway administration.

D

They've, given us a memo to that effect,.

D

Dated october well, our our memo, uh our apf report, was done in october of 2020 and it's part of the.

D

Public record also the state highway approval was actually given by jonathan meckloff he's with the.

D

State highway administration and that memo is dated, may 27th of 21. So just a few months ago,.

D

He sent a memo to the lugham office that it uh he had no objection to granting approval for concept.

D

Approval, of course, we'll have to ultimately get a permit from his office um for the construction, so.

D

There'll be a full set of construction drawings for the improvements on north sand gates, road.

D

But it's I'm not so sure exactly well, I've read it. I read that yeah and now I'm appreciate I.

C

Appreciate that and I read that I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot- I just noticed that.

C

As I'm looking through these turning that it, the date seems that's six years ago, and I don't know.

C

Whether there's a titan just a typo or I think whether or not that's the information that was.

C

Used by them yeah, no, I think that was be a typo, because you know we have a recent approval. Recent.

D

Apf analysis and a recent traffic counts and um a uh recent memo from his office with his.

D

Approval and again it was it's a question when, when, when the reports come to us, you know we yeah.

C

Well, I understand I mean I mean it's not just one. That's several pages, it's all of my data that way.

D

Well, um let me see exactly what we're talking about here is: are we missing.

E

A traffic you said you submitted a more up-to-date traffic report to the.

E

uh To the state is, are you missing that in our packet.

D

These are the turning counts. The turning movement reports that they're attached yeah they're these.

D

Are the most up-to-date um data, that's supplied by the state highway administration for traffic.

D

Engineers we're not the traffic engineers we subbed that out, um but this is the current.

D

Data, that's used yeah and I'm not again, I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot. I'm just I'm.

C

Just simply, you know, as I go through this, I just talk. I look for the most current information that.

C

I can find, and when I see when I see a date, it's like, oh I'm, you know so I'll, ask the question.

C

Is it a, is it typographical, error or is this? Are these turning uh movement? Was this turning.

C

Movement report uh from 2015 and I and is it and are they the same or would they be the same within.

C

Reason this is the data that the state would provide to all the traffic engineers for this.

D

Type of work- okay, did you did this report come to you and then you, you shared it with staff, is.

C

That how it um well everything that we do is submitted as part of the tec submission right.

D

And it's submitted to the county to the state they forward the county forward to the state right. The.

D

State responds back to us. If there's um comments from the state right, we would normally get on to.

F

Those right when we get copies of that stuff, you get copies of everything right right, right, right,.

D

All for public records, so the staff put this together is, I guess, yeah, okay, okay, so your group.

A

Didn't do their own traffic study? No, we don't larenzie. Dozergenell does not do traffic studies.

D

Now I will tell you the traffic con. The traffic consultant that we use.

D

We use um for all just about all our projects in the southern maryland region. Southern maryland.

D

Counties they're very reputable traffic concepts, uh jackie chandler, the woman that everybody uses.

D

Them yeah yeah, I'm sure you've heard their name dozens of times before you're bored. That's why.

A

We're going to ask you some questions about this um if they they're going not knowing if they.

A

Did that or not since, I don't have any paperwork from me and we go buy this one for 8 26. That was.

A

Done on a wednesday middle of the week in the middle of the summer, so we're not showing school.

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Buses in the morning, we're not showing school buses in the afternoon, we're not showing a lot.

A

Of things so that that, well um again we are not the traffic engineers, I know I'm just I'm just.

A

Telling that's that's concerned with covid last year, most of the counties and the state does a a.

D

Kind of a percentage factor that they factor in school buses um and that's what they've.

D

Been doing pretty much all throughout the state of maryland for all projects. So, even though it.

D

Was done this summer and even though it was done during covid um the numbers they used.

D

That's could be another reason why you have the 15 numbers. um Most applicants still bring still have.

A

Traffic concepts here or whoever does the traffic study would be here to answer those.

A

Questions right, it's a vital we're talking about an intersection. That's non-signaled.

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And you're wanting to build right on top of it. So it's it's! It's about!.

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Speaking for myself, it's of utmost importance uh in making a decision as to how they came to.

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Their decisions and their numbers, you know and like I said I can't ask them tonight- did.

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You all use these 2015 numbers, or did you all you know, do your own traffic study. I.

A

Don't have anybody to answer that question for me tonight, so I'm just giving you a heads up.

D

I certainly understand okay, but I'm not so um just from reading that. I think that the information.

G

That the applicant got from the county and state. Basically, you didn't have to have a traffic study.

G

Did you no because our that's, I think, if they did, then traffic concepts would have.

G

Typically been here because we always have right questions, but with the numbers, I don't think they.

G

I don't think that one um we can certainly or so I I relatively think that the board can certainly.

G

Even though it's not required to ask for a traffic impact study, I mean, if that's something that.

G

Came up amongst a group that that was a factor I mean you know there is a lot of.

G

I mean in in in reading this. You know, I think their their traffic levels are.

G

Are going to be high enough where they would meet the zoning ordinance, but I live down there.

G

And I can tell you there's a lot of traffic on that more more than most people would think.

G

Coming in and out of there, so that's all I'm saying is I we could defer to mr weiskopf. If we.

G

The board chose to maybe want to have a traffic um impact study to see what it would be, or there may.

G

Even be one on file from prior to 2020, that would give us numbers of some surrounding intersections.

G

I'm sure that we've built something up around mechanicsville or you know just just, uh but I'm.

G

Just saying that's why they probably don't have traffic concepts here now is because there wasn't.

G

Anything required by the county or state right, because I mean we submitted it out of the public.

D

Facilities application, it was reviewed and approved. um That being said, um correct me if.

D

I'm wrong, but I don't really think too many things have changed in the last five or six years there.

D

um Everything that's been out, there has been. You know that there's really, I don't think, there's.

D

Any new housing developments- maybe a few lots here and there you know the the restaurants down.

D

The river have been there: the recycling center's been there for several years, so the traffic counts.

D

Probably aren't going to change much and with a level of service a.

D

Even if it did a b is acceptable, a c is acceptable. Actually so.

D

We're not going to change too much, no matter what we, what type of traffic study we do here.

G

Agreed, I was just saying that I think if, if some of the board members had.

G

You know a defining question that we, you know there could be like you said it probably would not.

G

Take it down to a d or or worse, but if they wanted to see the numbers, I would assume we could.

G

We could ask for that. So just and I'd also like to point out that mr dietrich is here.

B

As well to maybe answer some of your questions you may have about the apf report. Good stuff too,.

A

Mr dietrich, mr dietrich, while we go while we we're talking about this, just.

A

Get this part out of the way, so we can work on the other part. Sorry, could you repeat please? Yes, sir.

A

um We were just talking about the intersection and we got a letter from donnie mills. Your your deputy.

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Director- and he had some of the following comments- are to assist the design engineer in preparation.

A

Of a detailed site development uh to provide an adequate outfall analysis per article 3.8.5 of the.

A

Saint mary's county stormwater management, we know about the stormwater and getting all that done.

A

Mdot and sha to review the site, access configuration and drain engendering this.

A

The state highway auto turn analysis illustrating the onside on-site truck movements is recommended.

A

And I'm hoping apple can be able to um tell us about that, and nocc forms will be required.

A

For all the proposed stormwater facilities, did you all have any problem with? I know.

A

If I'm not mistaken, north sand gates road is a is that a county or a state road. It's a state road.

A

Okay, did you have any comments on on that road, while we're talking about that intersection was.

A

There anything that was conveyed to you to um mdot or sha. Well, we're still waiting for the.

H

The details that'll come in with the final site plan.

H

Were in the final calculations on the storm water at facilities downhill from the far you know,.

H

From farm fields and so forth, it's also a fair amount of water comes down north sand gates, road.

H

So we're interested to see how all that works, they've got concept, approval from the state.

H

Both on their driveway location and storm water, but again the devil's in the details. So.

H

They'll still have to have all of those requirements nailed down.

H

Approval from the various agencies that'll flow back to us, and then we give it another. Once.

H

Over okay, but as of right now, your department's comfortable with the information you've received.

H

I think what they've sent us is adequate for concept site approval, which is what we put down.

H

But again the deed. You know we'll we've still got.

H

A whole other set of reviews to go through on this. When we get the higher level of detail, uh we may.

H

uh You know we're not too pleased with that driveway being.

H

Where it is that entrance driveway, it is close to the intersection, but given the size of the parcel.

H

There's really no alternative. They've pushed it as far up north sand gates, as they can.

H

That somewhat complicates the stormwater and I'll be interested to see how they deal with all that. I.

H

Think it's all doable but again we'll want to see the detail work. Okay, mr lesner, um speaking of the.

A

Entry which is really close to that intersection, uh an intersection that has traffic back up.

A

I don't live there. I don't travel that road daily. I travel it on weekends. When I go to the landfill.

A

Site- and uh I know sometimes it backs up from that, um but have was there ever any consideration I'll.

A

Say in moving the said building I'll say to closer to saying north sand gate road and have a left in.

A

I mean a right in and a right out entryway into this site or directly from the highway.

A

Directly from the highway or did y'all were y'all more interested in using the intersection.

A

So you would have more of a north and south entry type entryway going into it.

D

When I got involved with the site, a feasibility study had already been done by another engineer, so.

D

They had already had a kind of a concept approval, and I will tell you that, um yes, I.

D

Agree that is fairly close, but, as was said that we don't really have a choice. The the parcel.

D

Is the parcel um it's not, I really can't move it anywhere else off of north sand gates, road.

D

Now, as far as in and out, the placement of the building was very strategic when we first started.

D

The building was closer to the to sand, gates, road and the perk field. The septic system was.

D

Kind of at the other end of the parcel on the northern end or the western end, it didn't perk.

D

Up there, so we had to kind of reevaluate um move the move, the house or move the structure.

D

Back further, so that we could utilize that area for the septic field up front, which is actually.

D

Probably better, there won't be cars parked there or anything like that for any um site impairments.

D

So, as far as putting a say right in right out onto north sand gates road, if you are onto the highway.

D

If you can picture that site and you can look on the topo- also the site kind of drops off.

D

In the middle of the site and there's a large drainage swale through there.

D

Big drainage, pipe that comes underneath the highway that takes not only our site, but the.

D

Farm behind us that will all be accounted for in the storm water and the drainage, computations.

D

But as far as putting access in and out as you can see with the site just to do that.

D

And make this site work would be fairly impossible. I mean we just don't have the room for that.

D

um It's a tight site, we're using you, know all the usable land for our for our.

D

Our parking and our stormwater management facilities and to put access in and out off the.

D

Off the highway, it would be you'd lose the site you wouldn't be able to build on it.

A

I never say never.

A

We'll we'll we'll move unless somebody else has any more comments on the.

A

The driveway part of this um application.

A

Just I'm good good, no, no, I just um is the 9100 square foot building. Is that a standard.

C

For for them um a standard for them, I mean it is a standard. It's relatively on the low the small side.

D

um We do have a representative from pentax the developer here. um uh He would be glad more than.

D

Glad to talk about the size of the building and the you know what the building's going to look.

D

Like architecturally speaking yeah, and I only bring it up because of the the site constraints.

C

You know well, the site constraints definitely dictate the size of the building. I understand that.

C

You know if you have the biggest building you can put on that particular site.

C

um And that is the standard if it fits fine, if it doesn't fit, that's entirely something there.

C

So well: okay, yeah, I mean it sits there. I mean, I see it. It's there. You you it's there, but but.

C

Then there are some issues too. I mean again. uh Proximity to that intersection for me is sort of.

C

Troublesome just troublesome there's nothing I can do to make the life bigger, I'm not so sure.

D

What what any any any type of structure that we put on that site is going to be troublesome? I mean.

D

It's there's there's issues with the site, just the mirror configuration of it. I was there three.

C

Times last week I went to different times drove around north sound gate, sand gate sat there for.

C

Half hour so watch traffic, you know especially northbound traffic and.

C

There's just that's a straightaway and people, I don't know why they put traffic. You know signs up.

C

Nobody follows them. um Cars were flying and I'm cons. I am concerned about people, you know.

C

Pulling off and somebody distracted- and you know we went, we went through this when we.

C

Were in st john's road, you know we fought for forever to to have someone at the state address.

C

That issue there, the issue there was a traffic signal, I'm not so sure that a traffic signal.

C

Here is a good idea, although getting across um was not an easy task. When I was there on.

C

Two locations two times the other time wasn't a problem at all, but getting across. You know.

C

To make a movement going south um was not easy. So anyway, I've visited the site.

D

Five or six times during our work on the project right different times early in the morning, and I.

D

You know traffic moves on that road. I was there sunday I was there yesterday. I went.

D

Came from the north made a left turn about one o'clock and then came back out about an hour later.

D

And yes, their traffic is moving, there's no doubt about it, they're being very kind.

D

I I mean I didn't have a problem. I didn't have to wait. I didn't when I left. I didn't I'm talking.

C

About waiting, you don't have to wait on 235 or anything yeah. Believe me, it's north south, so.

C

Okay, that's fine! Thank you, one question for you. Looking at the site plan now, where you have the.

A

Proposed building you're saying everything and I'm using north as going up 235, so we're just.

A

Saying: that's: it's not exactly north, but we're going. You know what I'm talking about when I.

A

Say north of the building that none of that area perks? Is that what I heard from you that's correct.

D

The triangular where it comes to the point right on the other side.

D

Of the storm water management pond, it won't perk over there.

D

That was the original plan.

D

Which pushed the building closer to sand gates, road.

D

With more room for parking up where the storm or where the septic field is at.

A

Septic field or storm water management, pond the septic fields up near the corner of the.

D

Near at the intersection, looking right at it yep and that's where your storm water is also.

A

Going to be there's a little, um someone asked the question about drainage. So when you enter.

D

Our site there'll be a small storm order facility right on the right-hand side. That's shown on the.

D

Site plan and the septic field will be on the left side in between our entrance.

D

And 235 so that'll be kind of a green space there undisturbed. Now, when you enter the site.

D

On the right hand, side uh the drainage from our entrance so to speak and right.

D

At the entrance of our site will drain into that facility be managed, cleaned, go into an.

D

Inlet and then, which that will be tied into the we'll, build a manhole over the existing.

D

Inlet pipe that goes underneath the highway so we'll tie into that. There.

D

That little facility will be tied in there. The rest of the site will be taken into inlets, taken.

D

Across the front of the site or there's a drainage swale across the back, the rear property line.

D

And the water will drain through those either the the drainage swale or the parking lot with inlets.

D

In it and be taken into the ponds on the on the north side of the building be managed and then.

D

Re-Routed back through and then tied into that manhole again to come, underneath the highway.

D

So there won't be a drop of water that leaves the site. That's not managed.

D

It will be cleaned in quality control and managed through esd practices.

D

Which that makes the pond even bigger, because there's quite a bit of water, that drains.

D

From off-site through our site to get to that to get to that inlet, so we have to.

D

Manage all that water and let it be released at a manageable time period.

G

Where's that inlet at on the in conjunction with the property.

G

That you're talking about that, takes that that's you're, going to put a new.

G

um Thing well, there's nothing there now, there's a there's just a pipe with the head wall.

D

On it- and you wouldn't see it now- there's brush and trees growing over it, but there's a.

D

Guardrail across the front of our property and the property drops off about 10 or 12 foot right there.

D

And there's a pipe with an inlet or a head wall, concrete head wall at the bottom of that, so we'll.

D

Be filling that and we'll be putting an inlet on top of a manhole with an inlet on top of it.

G

Where does that go across 235? Yes, sir, to the southbound lane? Yes, not on the lane, but under.

G

Okay goes underneath the highway and then goes um at the entrance to where the church is out. There.

D

On the right-hand side, and then it goes underneath the church's entrance into a large natural swale.

A

Anybody else have any questions right now.

A

All right, let's start talking about the building, then uh you want to bring your.

A

Representative up here, because, yes, sir, I think he's going okay, how wide is that intersection.

I

That crosses to get into the southbound 235, I'm trying to find it. The crossover yes.

D

I mean it's a standard crossover that the state you know constructed.

D

So they're all the crossovers on the highway up and down they're all about the same size. That's.

D

Probably this scale this drawing is 30 scale, so that's probably uh 60 to 80 feet wide right. There.

D

Okay, does that answer your question.

I

I'm just concerned about people staging getting out there and getting over into.

I

That middle with trying to get the traffic to move when, when you're crossing over I've come.

I

Through there, I had a business in hollywood and I'd go home that way and I've seen people with.

I

The tail in two cars, three cars pulled across there and nobody seems to know which way to go.

I

Most people don't understand who has got the right-of-way period, I'm just concerned about that.

I

Not this is yours, I'm just concerned this is just another yeah, um the retail center right.

D

On the right-hand corner there stopped by my office today, and we had this whole discussion.

D

Because they were asking the same question and um you know the question on the crossover like that.

D

Always seems to be: where do you go? Do you go to the left or you go to the right like how does.

D

Someone that's coming out the other direction like. Where do you go, and so what I will do is I.

D

Will promise you that I will make uh have a whole discussion with the state highway administration.

D

About this, perhaps we could do some painting out there and actually paint that so that people.

D

Know where to go, um that would be a reasonable thing to do as part of the state highway review.

I

Yeah they did that in charlotte hall uh at the farmers market. Yes, because everybody was so.

I

Confused that they had to draw pictures in order to show people where to go well to be completely.

D

Honest, I we go up through charlotte hall, all the time. I know exactly what you're talking about.

D

But I don't think we're going to have anywhere that the volume here that we do in charlotte.

D

Hall on a saturday morning at the at the at the farmers market, I mean that was crazy. What.

D

Went on up there, but um whether it comes to that I'm not so sure. But I will certainly.

D

Have a discussion with the state highway administration about it.

D

Okay, would you like me to um anybody else, have any highway questions.

A

Well, we might come back, I'm just saying knock them out. While we go okay, yeah, if you want.

A

To bring the representative, uh I know I swore you in, but I don't have your name.

A

You can he can, you can stay there if you want to.

A

Hit any microphone want him to be in the middle for a while.

J

Good afternoon good evening, my name is ben sciput and I'm with penntex ventures. The developer.

A

Okay, you've heard what we've been talking about with the building-wise and all, and I guess one.

A

Of the big things I've heard mostly, is that we got a big building on a little lot, so why do you put.

A

Such a big building on a little lot. You know this is actually their middle sized prototype. They they.

J

Typically, build a 10 640 square foot building, but with the lack of depth on this particular lot.

J

Dollar general elected to go with a 70 foot wide building and their smaller building is actually.

J

Wider, though so that didn't work here, either it's 85 by 85, so it's like a square, so this is.

J

As tim was alluding to earlier, this is the only size building that fits in this.

J

Long skinny lot and, as tim indicated as well with the septic filling in the rear, the building can't.

J

Go over towards north sands gate because the septic system septic has to be located there.

A

Okay, that didn't do much for me, but I'm going to ask you about your building now here. Let me.

A

Get my drawings up here I see what the front of the building's gonna look like say. If you turn.

A

Into the lot, uh this is attachment um five that I'm looking at right now and then you show, I guess.

A

The side that is facing 235 that looks like it has um I'll say, faux: windows, stanchions and all that.

A

Of course the back doesn't have anything, but then the side I'll say that's facing the neighborhood.

A

Where all these people would have to drive up to it and look is, is pretty plain: why didn't.

A

You put the faux windows on on both sides of that you know to at least give because.

A

There are neighbors that live next spot next door. There are properties that are there.

A

I would think you'd want you'd want both sides to look good. I mean you're.

A

You're imprinting on the neighborhood, so I would think you'd want that neighborhood to.

A

See a nice side when they come up instead of a very long piece of sheet metal that goes along.

A

Would that be something you'd consider yeah yeah sure the reason why we elected to just go with the.

J

Metal on that side is it sits rather far after we push the building more away from north sandsgate.

J

We there's buffering and some topography and we thought we.

J

Were going to be far enough away but yeah? If that's something that make the neighborhood.

A

I don't see any wooded area, I don't see any type of a buffer that you have on the I'll say on and.

A

I'm going to call that the neighborhood side of the the building on my site plans. It doesn't show.

A

Anything- and so I don't cheat on, um I think it's the last sheet of the plans.

J

Sheet, eight: is that the last sheet, it's the concept, landscape plan, so.

D

Across the front, along 235, there's a buffer yard.

A

She date is that in the um okay.

D

Courtney were they giving all the drawings? Yes.

A

I'm just I'm on I'm on the wrong set: okay yeah. We have a 15-foot buffer yard on the north.

D

Yeah there's a buffer yard along the 235 there's a buffer buffer yard along the.

D

Front and across the back and then on the back of the property. There's a large wooded area.

D

On the um on the adjacent property, also so when you're coming down or coming out toward.

D

235 on sand gates, road and you look to the right you're, going to see the front of the building.

D

You're not really going to see the side of the building plus we'll have a buffer yard. Also.

D

That answer your question.

A

No, not really, I think, they're still going to see the side of that building when they come up. The.

A

Road, even because I mean it's a buffer, what what um type buffer is that abc? It's a um buffer yard, a.

D

15 foot buffer yard, a.

A

That's if I'm not mistaken, that's the most likely I'll, say, oh as far as plantings and things go.

A

It's not, um I got a lot of plants, um there's a there's. A landscape chart.

D

There's a landscape chart on the plan that has that lists all the trees and shrubs and sizes.

D

um Again, this is all subject to final review buffer yard b. If you were to use that.

D

It's a wider width, it's a 65 foot width and buffer yard c is a 30 foot width.

D

So we really don't have room for those, but more than anything, the buffer yard sea has a.

D

There's like a wall or a fence back there too, so we really don't have room for that.

G

But the buffer yard you're proposing, is what's required.

G

You're not asking for any variance or no that's correct, we're we're following the ordinances.

G

Let me ask you one more question real quick about: um where do the tractor trailers come in and out.

G

For delivery because I go to the dollar general in mechanicsville,.

G

And as soon as you turn off the road and get there, the tractor trailers are always there.

G

With their racks and stuff sitting there like in the road, not in the main road but in the driveway.

G

Is that what's going to be on this, I'm going to assume when you pull in.

G

Like if you're pulling in the driveway you're running to the side of the building,.

G

Is that where the door is going to be kind of like up there? Yes right off the driveway right.

G

Off the parking area, the front doors for customers will be near the handicap spaces, but the truck the.

J

Delivery truck comes into the parking lot kind of does a big u-turn towards the septic area.

J

And then backs up into the loading zone if you're looking at one of the plans, there's a loading zone.

J

Loading zone by the dumpsters is that, like right in the middle of the side of the building,.

J

Yes, well, the long side. Yes, the doors are towards the rear of the building by the dumpster.

G

I can't really see the dumpster, but I was just curious if you're looking at the landscaping.

J

Plan we were just looking at that's what I'm looking at the proposed one-story building.

A

Where it says that joe right at the bottom, it says loading zone, that's a very narrow.

A

Corridor for that truck to back down in there, I guess I think I see it's 26 feet wide 26 feet.

G

How far is the what's the length of the loading zone where the truck will actually like? I said.

G

One in there is no loading zone, it kind of kind of pulls in sideways and stays stuck out in the.

G

The front end and stuck out in the driveway and the back end just stuck out in the driveway.

G

Yeah, the truck all the racks that they take out sit right there in the entrance coming in and.

G

Out yeah now this the truck whenever it's doing making its deliveries will be totally away from.

J

The vehicular traffic in the parking lot, the truck, will be parked along the long side of the building.

J

The loading zone is the trucks larger than that rectangle for the loading zone, as shown.

J

On the plan, but the truck will be parked over there and these the large tractor trailers come.

J

They don't come every day. They come once a week, the large ones they get multiple deliveries.

J

Bread trucks, pepsi trucks, those come more frequently, but those are smaller. So show me the.

G

Loading zone again, it's it's, I can't quite see it on here. Is it in the back of the building? Yes, it's.

J

Bottom bottom left corner, you go to your stuff, joe and and it's I couldn't I just it was hard to see.

G

Under attachment 5., you could you can zoom in on it on your monitor up here.

A

If you want look over here, it's I've got don't mind, everyone wants it.

A

That's the one thing I like about this computer: oh I gotta zoom in zoomed. In so the truck backs all.

G

The way down the front past the doors where the customers go in, yes, the truck will pull in and.

J

Make a u-turn more or less towards the septic area and then go reverse towards the loading.

J

Zone dumpster enclosure loading door and it'll park on the side of the building back there.

J

Okay, now, where do they take all the material in? Is it right in the front.

G

Doors where the customers go no there's another door over there. If you look at the elevations.

J

If you look at the bottom, south elevation.

J

The elevation on the very bottom there, the delivery doors, are those two doors at the far left.

J

Corner of the building say, you have a people, entry door, and then you have a down here: material door.

J

Yeah, so the deliveries are as far away from the front door as they possibly can. Okay,.

I

Choose here, it's all the way back. What is that the trash.

I

Tactical area, it shows that it's all the way back next to that, yes, fronting 235 right.

I

Yeah right says: it's got a wooden fence around that and some wood I mean blocking it, but I mean.

I

That's the location all the way to the rear of the building yep. It's not going to be sitting in the.

I

Front now in between the dumpster enclosure and the okay, I got a question. I'm thinking about the.

A

Dumpster, how how are they going to pick that dumpster up that road going to be wide enough.

A

Because I mean just looking at my sight plan, even though you say that's a 26 foot wide road.

A

Was it 26 foot wide or 26 foot long 26 feet wide? Why it's a hundred, no you'll have one.

A

Room enough I'll say to get that truck at a 45 degree angle and pick up a dumpster or two.

J

And he comes straight in and then he'll just go straight back and well. He can't come straight back.

A

And grab the dumpster, because the dumpster is on the other side of the road. Is it not.

J

No, the the dumpster doors they face this same way, that's a symbol for doors. They swing out, swing out.

D

So they'll he'll come in and he'll open those doors up and he'll lift that you know get.

I

And he'll back out and then he'll back out and it's 26 foot wide, that's wider than all of your.

D

Just about all of your public roads, so it's yeah, that's wide enough for.

D

Two-Way traffic- let's put it that way and there'll never be two-way traffic. There.

E

All right, so I got a question about these uh schematic designs. So was this.

E

Customized for this particular project, like are these drawings representative of the building.

E

That's going to be put on site because they're they're not yeah, yeah they're, not consistent with.

E

The um eight pages that we were provided so I'm looking at page eight, which we referred to earlier.

E

And it shows the loading zone about two-thirds of the way back and in the very back. Is those.

E

Dumpsters we're just talking about, however, on this schematics, it's showing the loading zone at the.

E

Last 20 of the building, which would, according to your own plans, would be blocked by the dumpsters.

J

Well, the loading zone is graphically striped area on the parking lot right, so the truck would.

J

Hit the rear of the truck would be parked at the edge of the loading zone, and then they open up the.

J

Doors and right, but but but according according to your um your plan on plot eight here, the the.

E

Doors you're showing on your schematics would be blocked by the dumpster and it's corral. How would.

E

How would the delivery be made if that those two doors are blocked, so the dumpster enclosure is.

J

12 feet deep and 18 feet wide. So if that's 18 feet wide, then there's still eight more feet and then.

J

Five feet so there's 13 feet from the face of the building to the face of the side of the dumpster.

J

Enclosure, so they would, they would basically lower it down from the truck and then use it. They'd be.

J

13 feet wide to get from the back of the truck to that those two double delivery: doors: okay, okay,.

J

All right, if that dumpster enclosure may be shown just a hair large, um I also think it's.

D

But you never back your vehicles, your load, your trucks, to the back of the they unload, the truck.

D

And dolly and yeah yeah yeah: okay, it's not like there's a big warehouse where they back up to.

D

The right just from the scale on my screen here it looked like it was very narrow, like maybe the.

E

Size of a person but you're saying it's about 11., it should be, it should be 13 feet in real life.

E

The other question I had again about the schematics is, I was actually quite.

E

Surprised to see the corrugated steel on here, because at least one of them in the county.

E

And one of our oldest three dollar stores up in charlotte hall, you can see the cardigan steal.

E

From the from the street- and it looks horrible- it's not aged well and it looks like all the.

E

Subsequent dollar dollar generals that we've been looking at had had this stone surface when all.

E

Four sides, so I don't know why we were you, know you're cheaping out on that one side. Is there.

E

I mean: is it the thought that no one's going to see it? Is it just the cost.

E

That was friction both it was thought. No one would see it. It's 350 feet away from sand gates, road and.

J

Buffered but I mean, I think I think the clients clients would say it.

E

You know just from the parking lot, you know if you're parking in one of those.

E

Looks like an upside down six there there's those you know dozen or so spots there, where the bicycle.

E

Rack is I mean you're, gonna you're, you know that's visible to those people. I would say.

E

I mean, I think it's still visible. You know I I'm concerned about the long-term yeah.

E

Long-Term planning, uh you know, what's gonna, look like you know a you know, decade from now and such.

E

Because you know we're not just building this for for the short term, so you know that's something.

E

I'd like to see, you know upgraded. If, if, if the developer consider it yeah yeah, we would consider.

J

It that's more than one one comment, so yeah we'd be willing to and then the last question I have.

E

And this gets into some of the public comments we received, so we received a public comment from.

E

Rob vargo, um who uh did some measurements and said that you know there's a dollar store five miles.

E

North and another one seven half miles south of the project. um Another public comment from.

E

Terry van asselton, I can't pronounce that sorry. I apologize um saying the county's over run with.

E

The with the dollar generals and just from our own experience here, uh we recently approved a.

E

Dollar general, not too far from my house about two miles from my house in luxembourn park, and that is.

E

Let me pull that up 3.2 miles from the nearest dollar store on great mills.

E

Road, so the question I have is: does dollar general have a limit you know like like so.

E

You know we're building them every every five miles. Every three now it looks like every three.

E

And a half miles are we going to see somebody else come back and say: oh, we can squeeze another.

E

Dollar general halfway between this one and the next one um are there guidelines what what.

E

Was coming from the corporate telling the developers and and uh the french I don't know the.

E

Franchisees or how it's run, but what? What is the rule of thumb for the chain in terms of these, like.

E

When is enough enough, I guess is the question: yeah yeah, no good question. um So dollar general.

J

They have their in-house market planning division. They analyze data, they look at traffic counts. They.

J

Look at demographic areas, households, etc, and they have people that sit behind a computer and just.

J

Plug in data that okay, this store will work there. This store won't work there and whenever.

J

Our real estate managers submit a site location to dollar general. They run it up and through.

J

Multiple calculations and computer programs and there's a lot of homework, that's done to confirm.

J

That it will it can, it should go there, and the trade area is accurately identified and the.

J

They're not just putting them anywhere just yeah and, of course, of course, that.

E

Formula, and that you know, is proprietary, of course, um and trying to figure that out. But.

E

In the advent of covid, a lot of people are not traveling to the base um and I'm sure that you.

E

Know not just residential, but you know through traffic, might also play a role. I'm driving.

E

Along hey I'll pick up something on the way home um you know. Has that been thought about.

E

And is that needed in this community with the reduced number of people uh traveling the corridor.

E

um I don't know if you can answer that, but it just you know, I'm seeing businesses left and right. You.

E

Know closing up in leicester and park close to the base um they didn't survive covet. Unfortunately,.

E

But I'm not seeing the traffic's returning the way they were before before the uh pandemic.

E

And just wondering you know how much of the um calculation would be that, through traffic from.

E

People coming home from work versus the people who live around the corner- I don't know if you.

E

Know the answer to that or not but yeah. I know that they do look at that um whenever they do.

J

Analyze all the data and try to cross their tees and dot their eyes and make sure that.

J

Yes, if, because we're investing, they're investing they're our tenant, we're their landlord and.

J

Whether the store works or doesn't, they still have to pay their rent so.

J

They they look long and hard to make sure that we're signing up for this for 15 years and.

J

And what I was asking, I wasn't really sure: are these owned by corporate or are they franchises.

J

This one is not, um I know the one in lexington park. That's recently approved is the same.

J

Structure as this one, so where the where the developer will take the land under contract,.

J

Purchase it go through permits, entitlement process, sha access permit, purchase the land.

J

And then build the building and dollar general is our tenant and we're the landlord big.

J

Big picture and it's a triple net 15-year neat lease, so they're signing up for 15 years and.

J

Then every 5 10 after that, okay, okay, so we're looking at 15 years minimum it's it's usually.

J

They they usually don't go away and then and then you know, barring some of the recent. You know.

E

Maybe complications and supply chains and stuff. What is the normal time from you know, shovel to.

E

Soil till opening is it is it six months or four months from this particular site? Has a lot of.

J

Dirt moving so I'd say from shovel into the ground day, one to four months: it'll be open. Okay,.

E

K

You mentioned the analysis that you do with dollar general. uh When was that done.

J

um They analyzed this location, uh probably right before you started survey, probably.

J

Over a year ago, we started um they, we hire they. We started with pentax on this site.

D

Probably in early 2020 and after a half ago, because we perked it last summer by the time.

D

We got ready with it, we did some preliminary testing in early summer and then we came back in.

D

December or so um right over winter and did the actual perk test and that's when we had to move.

D

Things because it didn't perk the way we thought it was going to perk on the other end of the site,.

D

So then we had to kind of re-analyze and do a new concept clean things up a little bit.

D

So we've been working on the project almost a year and a half now assuming your board approves this.

D

I would imagine that our engineering would proceed right away and probably uh six to nine months.

D

Probably closer to nine months, or so, we would have our entitlements and be in the bonding process.

A

C

We don't have the ability in saint mary's county, to hold up a picture.

C

And say if you want to come here, this is what it needs to look like.

C

We can't do that um for any number of reasons, so this board winds up having to.

C

Figure out a way to make the aesthetics.

C

Of buildings that are going to be along these thoroughfares.

C

As pleasing as possible, historically, don't take this personally historically, people that come here.

C

Hand us a very vanilla, plain, jane concept. You know, and historically I say well. This is all very well.

C

Could you reach under the desk there and pull out another concept, because this one's just not.

C

Accurate, we don't have, we don't have architects to help us do all those things um and what I don't.

C

Want to have happen, uh we we sort of let we sort of let 235 between um lexington park and hollywood.

C

It's just nothing but development, either side and there's a certain about a blame that can go around.

C

For it looking that way, and it there was some alternatives, we just chose not for them to be.

C

Addressed so um I don't, I don't want the section from hollywood to mechanicsville.

C

To begin to look the same way, um you know there's originally, and this is not on you.

C

Originally, there were village, centers, town, centers development districts, green space in between.

C

And we're not careful all this green space, and this is a good example.

C

You know the building across the way was montana bar for years. Local watering hole.

C

And there's been a succession of built, you know, businesses that go in and out.

C

You know it doesn't, it doesn't take much to look at the number of businesses in this country.

C

Locally that are not able to sustain themselves the idea of retail.

C

Is is retail where you get in the car and drive? There is becoming less and less palatable.

C

Now we did have a person that came and spoke to us with regard to the darling general. Was it in.

C

Galloway is that a dental general anyway- and they were- uh she was just you know- went on about just.

C

How successful these dollar generals are and when you look at stock market on these small.

C

Smallish- and this is really small in comparison- they are successful.

C

But then there are those where you build these, you build them and they will come.

C

And that's fine until they don't and then you wind up with your triple net being something entirely.

C

Different um and then somebody, the landowner becomes the proud owner of a building on their lot.

C

You know and then what do you do with that? So the other dollar generals you know- and I and I hate.

C

You know I used to use the word extort from time to time, and then I got in trouble for saying that.

C

So I don't say that anymore. So what what I try to do is say: hey look, you know, you've got silhouettes.

C

Here you know the windows, the phone windows, what say we put canopies or something on top of them.

C

You know we did that it's it's very inexpensive. um We did that if you go to dick's.

C

Down you know down the way there. You know you'll notice, a long building. It's really long building.

C

But what they did was they buffered it, which is what you guys are going to do, but then they put.

C

The silhouettes, and then they put these very inexpensive awnings- that sort of dress it up.

C

A little bit, I don't want to say, lipstick on a pig because it's not accurate. It's not fair, but.

C

It is kind of so I mean putting a putting up a metal building on the side of 235 a thoroughfare.

C

Which is so to be supposed to be a streetscape sort of pleasant place to drive. um I I I can't.

C

I can't fathom putting up a metal building arco used to put up metal buildings all over.

C

The place and they just threw them up, they were just metal buildings and then, after several years,.

C

They start to rust and they know people don't maintain them not to say that you won't, but.

C

That said, um I I've tried to take into consideration what the expenses to the developer.

C

You guys um with the community, and you know that and and when it comes down to it you know it's.

C

While it may be the letter of the comprehensive plan- and I get that.

C

We I mean I get reminded of that all the time. Isn't it the spirit of the comprehensive plan so.

C

um You guys have laws and rules to follow and- and you know we sit here and we try to do the.

C

Best we can trying to get the best product we can for the community in saint mary's county. So.

C

I would uh I would appreciate the consideration of uh of not making it a metal building just a.

C

You know a metal building and to do those things that we've had other donald generals do.

C

With regard to masonry with regard to the silhouettes with regard to the canopies.

C

To just make it I mean, and up in mechanicsville we had a couple verizon, for example, it passed us and.

C

Then after it went through, they changed the profile. They bumped it up a little.

C

It gives it a little bit more character than then I mean you bump it up. It says it.

C

Looks like here, this corner is bumped up a tiny bit and I'm not saying you should change that.

C

I'm just saying that's a suggestion where it gives a little more.

C

Palatable architectural.

C

A little more palatable architecture to it, I guess.

C

So again we don't, we can't show you a picture and say: do it like this. I wish I did because.

C

What would happen would be? You say you would not. Is that what you want we'll build that, but.

C

We don't we're, not we're not there yet. So if you would take those things into consideration,.

C

Maybe and the other part is, you know and we've I've said it before and so other.

C

Folks, there is a big concern of putting a um this is really a confined lot. Putting this.

C

Building on this- and I understand the trials and tribulations that you have putting it on there.

C

My my job is to make sure that it, if it's on there is it, is it safe? Can people get in and out.

C

Not just now, but in the future, and that is really why I question the date on the information it.

C

Could be accurate, I mean to the to the turn I mean I don't know, but with the with the but the.

C

Most recent information: it gives us a better idea of what those movements would be and it could be.

C

Accurate, I mean I don't I don't know and and joe's right, it's not a requirement. You know to have a.

C

Traffic study, but you certainly you certainly don't use it. You don't want to build a building.

C

Where people it's unsafe, where people can't get in and out and all of a sudden there's.

C

More there's more trouble and traffic, and, and there than then you really anticipated.

C

You don't want that, and neither does neither does the person that's going to run this place.

C

So you know if you would take some of that into consideration, please and then we'll. I guess.

C

I'm not sure where we are with this, but that's really all I have right now so but soon so thanks.

A

Guess I'll piggyback just a wee bit on that you have a nice looking church across the street.

A

Brand new, very nice montana bar has held up very good over the years.

A

Much like a lot of the people up here on this board. uh It's still stands. Nice looks decent.

A

They keep it decent. You have a school right down the way. The original family's gas station.

A

Always looks nice lots always swept only self's, only full service gas station that I can think of.

A

Except for maybe james dean and saint mary's county, I don't know, I can't think of any others.

A

Just cut nice housing development right past that and then we're going to have a tin building that.

A

You know does its thing, so I guess you pretty much heard what we've said so yeah. We can certainly.

J

Maybe, by the end of this, if it turns into if it turns into a yes there's going to be some.

A

Either some conditions where there's going to be some um some giving up on your end. So that's just.

A

Something you might want to think about. We have no problem with upgrading the northern.

J

Side that we currently show as metal to match the other elevations and certainly throw some awnings.

J

Above the windows you know and and I'm actually pretty pleased with some sitting up here for a.

C

While I'm actually pretty pleased with some of the things that happened in st mary's county, that I'm.

C

Partially responsible for other things, not so much, I've tried to learn from those things. You know.

C

Understanding that the community needs to benefit, I understand what the constraints are with.

C

Regard to the development, but if it wasn't for development, st mary's county we'd started with.

C

Developers and and the problem is that developers all see things differently, there's no consistency.

C

To anything you know you go into an area, it could be victoria in one place and something else.

C

Someplace else and that's not consistent, it just isn't, um and so we rely on developers to agree.

C

To do some enhancements because that's really all we can really do you know to the stem cell again.

A

um Anybody else have anything.

A

A

Okay, at this time, then I'll open it up to public testimony and what we're going to do is. I have.

A

A sign up sheet and I'll go down this list um I'll call on the three people that have said.

A

They'd like to speak after that I'll ask if anybody else on this list that has a no would.

A

Like to speak um since this is a live hearing now and we're not doing the telephones anymore,.

A

We're not having public testimony called in correct. We don't have we're not right, correct.

B

There there will not be anybody, I mean I've had that telephone for so long. I'd have to make sure.

A

It's not going to ring on us, so I just want to make sure that you know what we're doing.

A

Tonight: okay, first person on our um for to speak for the public hearing will be mr robert vargo.

A

Mr vargo, I do remember swearing you in so I won't have to go there.

A

Could you give us your name and address? Please rob vargo. I live at 26330, marley court.

A

Okay, go ahead and give us your! Thank you, sir yeah. You have five minutes. Okay, as you can.

L

See on the plots we live right across 235 from the proposed area um on the lot right next to.

L

Faith bible church from my house, the lights of this door, will be visible through our windows.

L

From my house I often hear the sounds of crashes at that corner at north sand gates and 235.

L

And have to call 9-1-1 and from my house I too often see and hear medevac healers land.

L

At oakville elementary to transport accident victims, while I respect the company and an.

L

Owner to build a business, I want to address why this project area is the wrong place.

L

Will negatively impact safety and is a solution where there is no need.

L

Speaking of the area, as we saw earlier, this is a rural, commercial, limited district that talks about.

L

Accommodating existing small-scale uses compatible with the character of the rural.

L

Areas and the rural preservation district talks about the characteristics of a county's rural area.

L

This is a rural area, mostly with locally owned businesses. There are no big national stores, as was.

L

Discussed the church, the elementary school, a county park, the transfer station, a farm next.

L

Door and amish all around yes, this is a smaller lot, but it seems the dollar general is choosing.

L

To squeeze this into that thin lot, instead of finding a space that is adequate to their.

L

Normal buildings, and that would be in a safer area, speaking of traffic, as I mentioned this.

L

Is a very bad intersection and has many accidents. It's been noted by the panel.

L

That the study area is not only old, but if you really look at it, it was on a weekday six years.

L

Ago, the weekend traffic in this area, with the transfer station a new county park that probably.

L

Wasn't even open six years ago, the restaurants on weekends, many bicyclists motorcyclists going.

L

Down to sea breeze- and I say, as I mentioned, amish buggies often coming down to go down to the water.

L

So this is very dangerous, as we talked about the our that 235 medium is not very safe, as we know.

L

The state is very reactive on these things and won't address it until the accidents build up and.

L

The death count builds up. We need to account for that when we're looking at these things,.

L

And, as we said, half the people really don't know how to use those intersections and turn properly.

L

The elementary school was intersection was just as bad. We were here years ago talking about that.

L

And the most we got out of it was a sign that limits it during a few hours. That's going to be.

L

All the time in this intersection with more traffic, there's going to be more accidents.

L

As we know, as we talked about, the entrance onto north sand gates is very close to 235.

L

During the weekend, when everybody's coming from transfer station, there will be backups.

L

And people will not be able to get into the dollar general backing them up to 235.

L

Again, increasing the chances for accidents during a weekday affairs of backup and that.

L

Semi truck pulls in and needs to turn into dollar general and can't turn because of the traffic.

L

Again, it's gonna push people out on 235, increasing the chances of accidents and, as we said that.

L

The speed on 235 since the the previous traffic light is down in hollywood by the time they get up.

L

There they're going at high speeds, then I'd also like to address the lack of need. Do we really need.

L

Another dollar general it was discussed before we have the one five miles north at five and 235.

L

We have the dollar general in hollywood on marvel dean, road about seven miles away.

L

Existing convenience stores there's the corner carryout on the north.

L

Archmart on the left and as you get closer cooks at south sand gates and boatman's mini.

L

Mart just less than a mile away, so there's plenty of places for people to get that those the type of.

L

Things that will be sold at this place so, as was discussed a little bit later, this decision might.

L

Be decided by the letter of the zoning rules, but I would say it does not meet.

L

The intent of them it does not meet the character of the area. It is not needed.

L

And finally, it will not promote the health, safety and welfare of the general public.

L

As the rules say, thank you for your time. Okay hold on one second. Is there any questions in mr vargo.

M

I do have one now, do you by any chance? No thank you mike.

M

Do you by any chance know um what the percentage of accidents as as it relates to the total and.

M

Saint mary's, no, I think when I looked at the paperwork, I saw the traffic thing, but.

L

It didn't, I didn't see any accident data and didn't really know where to find it. Okay, but I.

L

Hope you guys can find it. Okay thanks! Oh did the applicant have any questions. Mr pargo.

D

Oh, no, not necessarily, I would come up to come up to a microphone if you did.

D

Yeah I I would. I certainly hear what he's saying um I would venture say that the.

D

um Idea that the lights are going to be shining into his property.

D

um Perhaps in the winter he might see some lights. I did drive past his home uh yesterday afternoon.

D

There's a large heavy, thick wooded buffer between his home and the highway. I think it would be kind.

D

Of hard to see through there right now, I'm not saying you can't, um but you know I didn't get out.

D

Into his house, of course, to download this driveway, but I did drive down his street that he lives on.

D

And there is a wooded buffer, you can see it on google earth or any aerial photos.

D

And as far as lights, we will have a photometric plan that will be submitted as part of the final.

D

Review we could propose a more uh I'll, say, earth friendly light in the parking lot. But as far as on.

D

The building the the side of the building um ben can answer this. Also, but they're. You know, wall.

D

Mounted lights, they're, not big, spotlights that will be shining out onto the highway.

D

There will be a sign on the front of the building.

D

I would imagine that would be lit up. I know, there's a dollar general right beside the.

D

My office in waldorf and they do have a lighted sign whether this one will be lit or not. I'm not.

D

So sure, but as far as the light shining in to his property or through you know, through his windows,.

D

I think we can dim that if that's, if that's a big concern and plus we do have a wooded buffer, there.

D

And he's you know a good distance away, um so I I would offer that as part of that testimony.

D

um Some of the other things that he said as far as the accident data, it's very difficult to get.

D

That data from the sheriff's office- they don't release that just willy-nilly. That's.

D

Very difficult, even for traffic engineers to get that data, so I I would offer that um to you all.

D

The need for the facility, I think, um the representative from pentech pretty.

D

Pretty much described it, they don't do these facilities they're way too expensive to do.

D

Just because, if there's a need, they know it through their data studies and their surveys,.

D

So I would just offer that character, the neighborhood also he brought up and again I.

D

I hear what he's saying and I think we'll do some upgrades to the side of the building to make it.

D

A little more compatible and palatable, um which I think your board would certainly um appreciate.

D

But you know this building, you know when you drive up and down the highway there um there's all sorts.

D

Of architecture there's not one specific type of architecture, it's not all red brick. It's not.

D

All farmhouse look, I don't think any of us have to worry that what happened in lexington park.

D

Will happen here: this is all rural. That's public, water and sewer high density.

D

And what what's happening along here, very str- very few commercial uh parcels left, so it.

D

We're not going to get the high density that we have in lexington park.

D

By any means not to be a contrarian, I I was born in 1951. We didn't think that either.

C

Yeah I mean who would have thought I mean there was just well pike, gas and lenny's. That was it.

D

That was the exact lexington park um in 1950 was a little different, of course, but yeah. That's.

C

I'm not curious, I don't care about. The election park is lexington park. Yeah.

C

The problem was that it became less expensive for development to move north.

D

Well, I hear what you're saying, but we also need public water and sewer for that.

D

And the zoning has changed. Yeah a sustainable growth act limits development in most of these.

D

Rural areas, so a lot of things will control that growth. So it's true a couple things that you said.

C

Number one you're right about the traffic with regard to accidents. It took us forever to get.

C

Those that information for um for hollywood, when we went through that mess trying to get.

C

That laid down and that's government agency- it's very difficult for private industry to get that.

D

And this is a question, probably um maybe it's for you in these situations.

C

Does dollar general approach landowners? Does the landowner approach dollar general? How does.

C

How does that you're shaking your head, which way does it go? It's got to go one way or the other.

J

So, usually, dollar general. Has these sta points right? This? The store will work here, store work.

J

There and then our real estate managers will. He just goes and looks for available parcels books.

J

For available property, yeah approaches landowners, if not. Okay, mike that's just to put a couple.

J

Parcels together, if need be, it's all different. Okay, can you can you restate that you said they.

K

Have uh you said, stas yeah, there's sta and ota points they it's a strategic target area. I think.

J

Is what they call it? The sta acronym- and this was a dot on the map. That would be a successful store.

C

Yeah, I know there for a long time- dollar, general and others what they look for um were food deserts.

C

um Opportunities where people either were walking bicycling, whatever didn't, have opportunities.

C

To provide or to get what you, what dollar general provides, and I understand with regard.

C

To the the gentleman's comments with birch and boatman and boatman more than the other two.

C

What they offer is is much is a much I know, you're laughing, but anyway it's much it's different. It's.

C

It's much expanded, and so it um it does help. Maybe people that need. You know that to be approximate.

C

Your home, I was up there about three times, there's a house that that shares the driveway with the.

C

Church is that the pastor's home- that's back there because I went around- is that the pastor's.

C

Home because I went around where you lived and there's an easement that you spoke of, there's a.

C

Smeko easement back there, that is, has trees that run up. You know that buffer.

C

That you're talking about as a matter of fact, people are parking. The boats in the.

C

Buffer but anyway it seems like I was so I'm trying to figure out your your line of sight.

C

From your home with regard to the light, so if you are in the back side of our house right, the way.

L

The church now built their expanded parking lot right added on so the lights in that parking lot.

L

If you went from our window to that light, it would go direct. I mean it's a straight line yeah and see.

L

What would be a big issue? I'm not sure, yeah. Well active it's closed. You know and I didn't I did not.

C

Pull in your driveway I've, I've been chastised for that in the past. So so I did not pull into your.

C

Driveway to get a better line of sight, so I really couldn't tell from the church you know. So I was.

C

Concerned I couldn't figure out how the light was. You know going around that way. Okay, that's fine!.

C

Thank you I'm good. I just want to let you know that you can certainly address each public speaker.

G

Or you can compile some notes and do it at the end. You'll have an opportunity at the end to make.

G

Your final statement, because some of the ones may say some of the same stuff, but it's up to you, you.

G

Have the right to do, then you will certainly get a chance at the end to make your final.

G

And if you wanted to address stuff but either way you wanted to do it. But I appreciate that the.

D

Chairperson did ask if I wanted to respond sure I wanted, while it's fresh in everybody's.

D

Mind and it's nice to have this, give and take with the gentleman here, and I.

D

I'm not trying to be disrespectful whatsoever I'll, just let you know the options you can do.

G

It this way we could, you know right, do it the other way if you chose yeah, I have a question.

I

You can relax, it's not for you, mr dietrich.

I

The gentleman that just spoke- and I are both very concerned about that intersection, like I say I.

I

Traveled it for 15 years and I've come through departed to see, missed cars accidents there.

I

And at the same time, the state and tell me if this is a misnomer, only registers. If it's a.

I

Death, they do not register as an accident true or false, or how do they go about determining.

I

That intersection, if somebody doesn't die, but yet several people were injured and crippled.

I

For the rest of their life, I mean: how do they go about assessing an intersection when that.

I

Many I knew that in the 15 years I was there coming through there because I use that road.

I

I I'm totally perplexed, as uh I really can't speak for the state. I can tell you what we do.

H

Which is to see if they're preventable accidents and uh if there's something we can do to prevent.

H

The accident with a physical change, but I don't know what their trigger is about. I know when I.

H

uh When I send a request up to them, you know they talk about their budget for making changes.

H

And so forth, but I really I can't give you unfortunately, a deeper insight into what their.

H

Analysis is, they definitely have staff there to do that and they do do.

H

And now the analysis that we asked them to do takes a while, but they get back to us. But.

H

As far as actual changes go, I haven't seen a whole lot.

I

What I'm seeing is is that it's it's a business decision, that's his business decision, they've.

I

Crunched the numbers they know what to expect. The property must be at the right price, if not.

I

They wouldn't be there. Everything is falling into line. My consideration is public safety, health and.

I

Well-Being at that intersection- and it's like mr evans, said we're looking at a six-year-old report.

I

And then we're not going to say how many accidents were there.

I

I've threaded the needle on that a many a time and I will put my hand on any.

I

Bible or whatever you want, because I have been through there at 20 mile an hour and threaded.

I

The needle I could see it, I know that, there's that that situation and that intersection is coming up.

I

I am very concerned about that intersection people. You can put all the signs you want. Everybody wants.

I

To get in the middle of that intersection, I've been there and there's two cars back to back.

I

And the person either they don't realize it. The half of their automobile is in my lane.

I

And I can't get over, I can't go nowhere and it's either take them on or try to thread the needle.

I

I've threaded the needle a many a time. I don't know how we can do this and not have a study.

I

That's more than just six years old I mean it's. It's older, I mean six years is still a long time.

I

With the traffic that that base traffic moving day and night through there and it you can say what.

I

You want it dumps off on going to the bridge, but a lot of that traffic comes out of washington, d.c.

I

I don't know what time you come through there in the morning, but my business was right. There.

I

In hollywood and I had to travel it, I lived in uh over on the on route 5 site and had to travel that.

I

240 and I think 249 and I'm telling you that light- there holds up a lot.

I

But when they're coming heading north, they are coming through there at a pretty good clip.

I

We need to do something, nothing against you. I'm just concerned that.

I

That there will be a life taken eventually, and I think there has been already yeah. I was trying to.

H

Bring up the uh arcgis site back there on my phone and I couldn't get it to come up.

H

But the trap, the most recent traffic counts from sha- are actually on our gis site. When you.

H

Click on the center line of the road bob kelly got that so you do have it rigged up and.

H

uh I can't tell you how, because I couldn't get on it, I can't tell you what other data is.

H

Actually there as well, it could be that 2015 or 20 whatever. What number is all that's available? Yeah.

I

I like to say, I'm not here to tell him how to run his business. That's up to him.

I

They're they're very successful wherever they go, I'm just concerned about public safety. That's my.

I

Biggest and it's a concern of ours too, but uh but but uh sha has you've seen the approval.

H

You know they're tentative, I don't mean they're right. We've called as a.

I

State highway administration in on a many a subject uh and have them actually had to go back.

I

To the drawing board, one of them was the park and ride. If you remember in the northern end of the.

I

County right, they didn't even do their own study and then they wanted us to pass it, and we said you.

I

Bring us a study, then we'll take another, take a look at it. So, as I mean they're, not god sent.

I

They're not correct always they're using statistics and data, I'm using reality and so.

I

Are the people that live there? I can? I can hear the crash. I can see the people and.

I

I just think something needs to be done and if we need to approach state highway, your lot would be.

I

Perfect, if it wasn't for it's an inexpensive lot, it's something not being used you're in the rural.

I

Area yeah, the majority of the turns, are left turns which creates a situation you talked about. I'm.

I

Just looking at a backup out on the highway- and they can't see around it after trying to pull out.

G

Let me kind of um jump on the tail of that. I would usually wait to the end, but since it's brought up.

G

um One point is it mr vargo was that one point mr vargo brought up that I didn't.

G

See in here or even realize, and some other members may have realized it.

G

Is the fact that, since the intersection is only, is it like 50 feet from the from that.

G

um Entrance exit proposed entrance exit into the dollar general is that the is that the distance.

D

Further than that yeah, but not much, that's the look on the other plane. It.

G

Was the leading edge the further most out edge where the cars would be? You know, turning to.

G

Get into on the two-thirds I mean on the 472, you know to get out to the intersection which.

G

I just was wondering it's hard to tell on the plans. I'd say 90 feet at least.

G

It's a little further than I thought, but I still wanted to touch on one point that um mr vargo said.

G

And it's a very valid point and we can all think about it during the rest of the public. Testimony.

G

Is I've lived in that area since 1972 in sand gates itself, so I'm in and out of that road.

G

Multiple multiple times of of every day, one of the problems that I've seen increase over the last.

G

However, many years is the fact that, when you're sitting at the intersection there.

G

And it doesn't matter whether you're going north or south, if there's a car.

G

Coming north and turning into sand gates road, your view is: obstructed down that road.

G

And I can tell you when I was younger, hey if I didn't see anything coming, I was zooming out into.

G

That middle you know, and nowadays, as I've gotten a little older, I I go a lot slower because I'm.

G

You just kind of realize that, but I've been sitting there and a car or truck is turning.

G

Into sand gates, road from north 235 and cars behind me are beeping. That horn, I mean I can't.

G

Even see- and they want you so if you're on sand gates road gonna turn right, I'm on sand gates, road.

G

At the intersection, it doesn't matter whether I'm turning right or left. Okay, you can't see past that.

G

Vehicle that's sitting in the turn lane to turn on the sand. Gate road, they're sitting in front of the.

G

Big brick building: that's there now turning into sand gates, road.

G

One of the points mr vargo brought up that, especially on the weekends.

G

If the cars are stacked up, coming out of sand gates, road and you've got three or four or five.

G

Cars come in sand gate road to turn into the dollar general. Well, now, they're sitting there.

G

In the lane, and some of them are going to back up into the into the turn lane making that situation.

G

In, in my opinion, even worse, I don't know what we'll do about that, but it's a I've seen a lot.

G

Of just myself a lot of close calls, I've never really witnessed an accident there, but I'm seeing.

G

A lot of close calls of cars shooting out whether they're going north or south they're still going.

G

Past this vehicle- that's sitting in that turn lane or turning, and they can't see a.

G

Blind-Sided um car- that's coming that's hidden behind the vehicle, so I just think it's a really.

G

Valid point that we need to maybe discuss a little bit up here, since I really think that as much.

G

Traffic as the dollar general will have, and I really think they will.

G

Do well there I mean you're, going to pull sand. Gates is an extremely big area.

G

You're going to get all the end of macintosh road there's a couple subdivisions there. That's.

G

Not going to go to hollywood, not going to bypass this to go to mechanicsville, so they're, going to.

G

Go right there, only three or four miles away, two or three miles away. So I think it's going.

G

To be a lot of traffic in and out and now since he brought it up, I'm really concerned about that.

G

The turn lane and stacking vehicles, not necessarily on sand gates, road.

G

But more out into the into the turn lane. That's the only point that I was going to bring up.

G

Later, but now that since we've talked about, I just wanted to get us thinking about that. Not.

G

Sure, if we can have any remedies for that, I know it's up to state highway. It's not up to you guys.

G

Not up to us it's a state highway um issue, I don't even know. If I mean they look at stacking.

G

Distances and stuff, so I'm not sure if that's something that they.

G

Thought about with the transfer station there there's a. I don't know how often the big long.

G

Trailers tractor trailers are changed. Mr dietrich would know because they're under his purview.

G

You know how often they come in now, so it's just a longer vehicle. That's in that turn.

G

Lane that has to come down um sand gates road, so just a little bit of food for thought, since it.

G

Was brought up so saturday morning they're doing both the recycling and the big blues.

H

They swapped them out prior to the landfill opening correct. Well, one is in the.

H

Recycling containers usually about ten or nine or ten, so there you go right right: okay,.

G

Thank you, yeah and the situation you describe with regard to the de-acceleration lanes.

C

That's a situation that exists throughout the everywhere right, it's everywhere, because.

C

When that car pulls over in the acceleration lane very seldom, do you have a car? That's trailing him.

C

Not pull up beside him and the problem that you describe.

C

Is when that car that's pulling up on the inside is lost in the silhouette of the acceleration lane.

C

And so in our in my situation, where we come out on 249, I almost never pull out into the travel lane.

C

But rather pull onto the shoulder I'll look pretty certain that there's nobody there, but I've learned.

C

To pull off on the shoulder, but that situation is not going to be remedied by the state only by and.

C

You can't really do anything about bad behavior and that's not really bad behavior. It's just.

C

Someone pulling into the acceleration lane for the purpose it was constructed.

C

So that traffic can move can move forward. You know so but yeah I agree now. I don't have a problem.

G

With the vehicles pulling over there, because that's what it's there for right, exactly and most people are willing to wait, leaving leaving the intersection. But if you've got vehicles.

G

You only take you know, I think they estimate 20 20 or 25 feet for stacking of a vehicle. So if you got.

G

90 feet: you got not even four vehicles down sand gates, road to turn into the new dollar general.

G

And then you're going to have a few vehicles that may stack up there as long as it keeps moving.

G

You know the cars are usually willing to wait to come out onto 235, whether to go north or.

G

South, but if you've got three four five six vehicles sitting there, that's not moving.

G

I can tell you they sit behind me and beat the horn right. It's just an impatience.

G

um Thing and that's the only thing that I from someone that travels, that.

G

And, like mr evans said it's not just that intersection, it's plenty of intersections.

C

And there are others where you can, where what they do is they add an acceleration lane um on.

C

The other side, which gives you an opportunity to accelerate and then and then we don't have that.

C

There, though we don't exactly, we don't have it. We are either just so just a quick um point of view.

D

There's a just an fyi there's a dollar general right outside my office. I look out my window every.

D

Day at it all day, long and I've told multiple people this that you know we we've have 44 parking.

D

Spaces here right, I've never seen anything close to that even during covid, when everybody was going.

D

To the dollar general there's generally about six to 12 cars in that parking lot during the day.

D

At any given time they come and they go, we never see cars backed up not to say it wouldn't happen.

D

But we never see cars two or three or four cars exiting at the same time. It's the slow.

D

And steady, slow and steady, it goes on all day long. Do you guys own the mechanics field? One.

J

No, no, I missed the one I typically go to there's. I don't know if I've ever only seen six to 12.

G

Cars there, but I mean it's so it's a pretty busy, I'm not saying it's dangerous. Getting in and out.

G

I'm just saying there's a lot of well a lot of cars. I never been to the hollywood one, but the.

G

One in mcanksville there's a lot of people in and out of there all the time. Well, I'm.

D

There's definitely a lot of people in and out all the time, but it's slow and steady.

D

Hollywood's not a problem because it's on old hollywood, road right, okay, just just making an.

G

Observation from from you know what we heard where, where is your office, where in waldorf.

D

Where, where, if you're headed north or if you're headed toward 301 right before you.

D

Get to the post office road there's a doughnut shop, doughnut connection on the right hand, side.

D

I know where you are we're on the left-hand side. What's the speed, what's the speed limit there.

D

35, probably you know what the speed limit is on 235.

I

Oh yeah 85, because no one knows what no one knows but 55 miles an hour traffic volume. So we don't.

D

Have the divided highway either we don't have a light. It's the same situation. Only it's a you know.

D

The the paved right and left turn lane with the arrows going both directions down the middle of.

D

The road there and you're in the development district and we're in the development district.

G

Okay, that's all I had thank you. Okay, all right! We're going to go on to the next person.

A

Hopefully, he's still awake, mr pilkerton.

A

Thank you, mr dietrich, and I know I saw you get sworn into. I believe.

A

Yes, would you give us your name and address please ill pilgrim, uh 26 420, north san gates, road.

A

Okay me and my family both are joining the first and second house on the right or more sanctions.

N

Is that better? So um you talking about the lighting and stuff, we definitely can see it from.

N

My house, we can see merrily the houses on marylee drive. I can see how the school I can see. 235.

N

I'm very familiar with the farm. That's behind it. I've lived there. My whole life.

N

um One of the questions I had and the traffic is the biggest issue that I have with this. This.

N

Whole thing and I'm very familiar with state highway, I'm also a first responder at hollywood.

N

Fire department- and it was an act of congress to get a light for the fire trucks to come out.

N

235, even though they still don't pay attention to it, so over the years there's been multiple fatal.

N

Accidents that north cengage wrote, I do not have a number. I wasn't ready for that. I can tell you this.

N

When there is an accident out there, it is not a fender bender. They either.

N

Sent to the trauma center, it's a high-speed accident, we're cutting people out of cars, so.

N

You have that, but you're gonna have that anywhere um joe. You picked up uh one thing I wanted to ask.

N

He said 90 feet from the intersection to turn it into this property. um I question that, but.

N

You know they're engineers, but I do know that the average traction trailer is 70 feet long.

N

And I do know that when the transfer stations trying to come up make a right on north sand gates.

N

They take the whole intersection. If they don't, they got to stay in slow lane and still somewhat.

N

Take the whole intersection to make that turn. I would imagine that they'd probably be coming south.

N

However, if it's backed up um is that truck going to be out of out of 235, you know, is it going to.

N

Be sitting there waiting to make a left turn and still sitting out in the highway, causing traffic.

N

Issues um that was one of my questions. uh Why can they not exit on northbound? Why? Why can they.

N

Use the intersection to turn into the store, but exit going northbound similar to what they did.

N

In mechanicsville, where you can enter the store off route five, but you have to exit on the back.

N

Route, that's correct. That would save a lot of issues right. In my opinion, um the current study.

N

I have no doubt that that was 2015, because I do very familiar with state highway.

N

I would ask that y'all, please get a study done. You know it's coveted right now, but.

N

uh You know I go to work four o'clock in the morning, so it's a raceway from five in.

N

The morning four to five in the morning, till eight and from three to six in the evening.

N

um You know, like you, said, traffic going back to dc, taking loveville road to go back to downwards.

N

You know so we really really do need to get a true study and not just thoughts and opinions.

N

um You got the school traffic transfer station, two restaurants, the potential for montana. If that was.

N

To open back up to be another pizza, carryout or whatever type of business they want to put there.

N

That should be taken into account because it's not going to sit there vacant forever.

N

And then the aesthetics, you know if it's going to be in the neighborhood, make it.

N

Fit in the neighborhood, you know, I appreciate you.

N

Speaking about you know, putting the better lighting and putting the uh awnings and such.

N

Because you're going to see all all four sides of this building, depending on where you travel.

N

That's that's! That's about it. That's it's just really about the about the traffic we.

N

Have a hard time getting out uh now whether you go out and make a right, I mean me and my family.

N

Try, if it's busy, we we have to make a right to go north making. You turn it to school and come south.

N

To avoid the intersection, that's what I did okay hold on. Does anybody have any questions, mr pilgrim.

A

um Mr lesner, you have any questions.

A

From me, um I I can wait: okay, just giving your option okay. Thank you, sir appreciate it. Thank you.

A

And also, I have brandon russell.

A

All right good evening, I can't remember if I swore you in or not brandon dude. What's that did did I.

A

Swear you in yes, okay, sorry, I didn't remember that give us your name and address. Please. Yes, brandon.

F

Russell 22291 meadow lane leonardtown. I don't live near the proposed site of this dollar general, but.

F

I am over there five days a week because I work in that area and I can personally testify to the fact.

F

That that intersection is fraught with problems, all of which you've mentioned, and I can appreciate.

F

The lengthy discussion that you all have had with these individuals, representing dollar general.

F

About how this building looks and whether or not it should really go there, but it seems to me like.

F

This is trying to force a square peg into a round hole. It's just not right for the area.

F

With six other dollar generals open and breathing and sounds like a seventh or maybe more proposed.

F

Or approved um what do we need this? For they have their data points. They say that.

F

There's a need: well, I'm sure there is there's a need for them to make money, um but does the.

F

Community really need this, I don't I don't know, I don't think it does. As somebody mentioned.

F

The point about food deserts, which I think is a very good point, but I would like to point out.

F

That dollar general is a convenience store, it doesn't really sell fresh produce, it doesn't sell.

F

Grocery store type items the same way that a food lion would at least from what I've.

F

Seen and so I think, pre-packaged foods like that does not really help to fix a food desert issue.

F

I also would question the need for it as a business in general, in the county.

F

When we need to diversify business and focus more outside of retail businesses, that pay.

F

Low level wages that people cannot support a family on. So that's a point. I think that.

F

Should be considered and on a personal note, outside of traffic and all these data points.

F

My a relative of mine, my aunt, was in a terrible accident at that intersection years ago. She very.

F

Nearly lost her life, she had to get her legs reconstructed with rods and screws and whatever.

F

Medical miracles that they did to save her legs and allow her to walk again. But there was a lot of.

F

Work that went into that for her a lot of physical therapy, and I mean I can't even imagine, but.

F

That type of situation, I'm sure, is pretty common for a lot of people in this county, because.

F

I I'm sure there's been a lot of accidents there, a lot of lives taken and with the school so nearby.

F

I don't think that putting more traffic, even if it would only add 50 trips, like the data.

F

That was in your package said, I mean 50. Trips is 50 trips too much too many. When there's 20 000.

F

People coming through that intersection according to a six-year-old study, so for those reasons I.

F

Would ask that you not support this dollar general being built? It is not the right.

F

Place to put this in our county, thank you, okay, hold on. Does anybody have any questions, mr ross.

A

Applicant want to wait. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

A

Okay, is there anybody else that wants to get up and speak.

A

Did I swear you in yes, sir okay I'll be looking I'll, be looking at the tape now.

A

Telling those stories brett myers, 26, 427 sandgates trail lane- you guys have.

O

Pretty much hit the nail on the head asked all my questions. I just wanted to be on record that.

O

I feel the same way about all the issues that you guys brought up, even if you know.

O

The traffic issue really point: you know we hit it home if it turn it into dollar general. But if it's.

O

I mean I have a truck and trailer and if there's a car sitting coming off sand gates, trying to turn.

O

On there, you cannot get in there without hopping a curb, even with a trucking trailer. You know.

O

So that's putting back up and then, with the track trail sitting there you're not going to.

O

Be able to see past that anyway, you can pull out on the main road um kind of going to be.

O

Front, it's nothing to these guys. You know these guys are getting paid to do what they're doing.

O

um But I mean we do have one you know up towards wawa. We got one up down to our tractor spy.

O

You know very close, but these I mean I've been in our world. I go to dc to work.

O

uh And come back and I feel like these dollar generals are not clean. You know some of the.

O

Crowds, sometimes you know, aren't desirable late night, kids, you got a school right. There.

O

Families, churches right across the street whenever I moved to dc you know I wanted.

O

You know my own privacy, my land, um and I got that on the sand gates and you know.

O

uh I want to get out of the city out of the city, there's a reason. I drive an hour work every day.

O

To you know down to oakville sand gates to to come home and call that home and it's not to have a.

O

Dollar general, at the end of my street every day you know so I I mean it may be a little rough and.

O

It's like nothing against these guys, but it's I feel like I'm, not the only one that feels that so.

O

That's all I really got anything for you. Anybody have any questions to mr myers.

A

Thank you, sir okay. Is there anybody else? Okay,.

A

Did I swear you in man? Okay, what was your name again? My name is lisa demarco. I live at.

P

42309 manor drive lived there 35 years and on my way here I was like what am I doing.

P

Why am I going to a public hearing? That corner is bad? You live there. We all know it. It is horrible.

P

You've all hit all the traffic issues he mentioned the amish. We see them coming and going families.

P

With kids sitting in the back, you know with they're, pulling their little john boat going.

P

Down to the river we've got crabbers and fishermen that come in with their big boats that go down to.

P

The river um traffic is an issue. I appreciate all of you guys going and traveling that that area be.

P

At different times- but I'm here and I know this is 25 years ago, but I lost a whole family.

P

um Whenever you go, there's going to be impacts to the traffic and my friend was bringing her.

P

Six-Year-Old and her six-month-old to my house to babysit at eight o'clock in the morning, you.

P

Had school buses trying to make their way to oakville in october, anyone who comes through.

P

There I'm sure you know october, if you're coming south on 235, the sun does not move whether it was.

P

25 years ago, or last year october, that sun is setting right above the trees and it's.

P

8 blinding 8 30 in the morning. It is blinding and she went she got in through the turn into.

P

The median and a dump truck traveling at a very high rate of speed, hit her and kill all three. So I.

P

Do know of three deaths that happened at north san gates, road. It was horrific kid. My kids were on the.

P

School bus, they didn't know who it was they kind of recognized the van, but all those school kids.

P

Saw what was going on and it was horrible. We have one five miles north. We have one seven miles south.

P

We do not I'm sorry, but the people of saint gates have represent like the manor drive, calvert circle.

P

We've all been talking and they don't think I've heard it said it's not ideal and we do not want.

P

To see a dollar general come in, you can go north, you can go south they're, very close.

P

And so the new ideal, the people I've talked to in our community just say no, they just say.

P

No, it's not necessary, it's not needed. It's not wanted in our little rural area of an agriculture.

P

Agricultural area that's being preserved. Well, thank you. Any questions hold on any questions.

A

Thank you, man, okay. Is there anybody else.

A

Okay or if there's nobody else, that wants to speak.

A

I'll go ahead and close the public testimony at this time.

A

Who's, the applicant oh yeah, [, __ ], with bottletop, okay, mr lesnar.

A

You have time to do a rebuttal. You've heard what the neighborhood and citizens have said.

D

Okay, thank you again for your time and I certainly appreciate all these neighborhoods uh folks coming.

D

Out to um get involved with our community, it's always a good thing. There's no doubt about that.

D

um Obviously um we have some, you all have some uh some concerns, but I would like to offer that.

D

The site does meet all the county regulations. We've gone through tec review, um we've gotten all.

D

The proper approvals to for concept approval um we've made it this far um haven't skipped any.

D

Ordinances haven't tried to work around the system. We've worked with the county review, reviewers and.

D

The agencies, we believe that the the building and the site plan meets all the ordinances.

D

I do sympathize with the fact that you're asking you may be asking for a a traffic study and that's.

D

Most likely something we can work with, but um the way the adequate public facilities ordinance is.

D

Set up right now, this is well. You know, we've done what we're supposed to do. The zoning the building.

D

Meets the zoning requirements, we meet parking calculations, we meet landscape calculations.

D

We will meet storm water management, ordinances, forest conservation, ordinances, um everything.

D

That we need to do, we have done. um I think, based on that, we would greatly appreciate your your.

D

Blessing to this project and all the concerns that the folks have I I do sympathize. I do hear it.

D

But, as all of you have spoken, these issues that they're speaking of are issues on hundreds of.

D

Intersections throughout the county and all the southern maryland counties, we we all have.

D

The same issues where people drive too fast and don't follow the speed limits.

D

So again, I do sympathize with the folks, but we will do everything we need to do.

D

To get the project approved under all the current ordinances in a timely manner and we'd be glad to.

D

Of course, make all that information public that anybody who wants to they can come to the county.

D

Office to the welcome office and ask questions to make sure we followed up on everything.

D

So with that, I I certainly.

D

Would entertain any questions that you have? um I think ben has a a little bit of information about.

D

um You know some things that were said by some folks that he would like to offer also.

J

Yeah yeah, thank you. You hit everything. I was gonna retouch on um just one minor thing: it's it's.

J

More than a dollar store it's more than a retail store, it does have expanded, coolers and freezers.

J

And people can go grocery shopping at this store, so it's more than just a retail store. It's like a.

J

General store, neighborhood general store. If they just had a different name, it would if they.

J

Didn't have dollar in their name it'd be people would not think it was just a cheap dollar store.

J

Okay, that's it! Okay! Thank you. um Okay, any questions on any of the rebuttal items.

A

Okay, thank y'all; okay, we'll open, we'll close testimony and begin with board up deliberations.

A

I can pick you one at a time or somebody can can step up and just.

A

Give us your take on this as we work our way toward emotion, yeah I'll go. I don't have any.

G

Any problem um I I stated my couple concerns um and I know state highway- looks at things.

G

Through calculations and counts, and sometimes as mr sinclair mentioned, we look at things through.

G

A little bit of personal knowledge, you know of the area since we all live.

G

Even if you didn't live down there, you live in the in the area.

G

My my biggest concern is.

G

The northbound turn lane getting stacked up and cars impatient to wait, can't get.

G

Through the intersection, so they dart over to the intersection or pull out and go north.

G

When there's still cars in that in the turn lane.

G

I don't think a traffic study would address that they may address a little bit of stacking.

G

But the intersections would pass with the formulas that the county and the state uses.

G

And I would like to say to everybody here, unfortunately, in a lot of these.

G

Incidents, common sense doesn't doesn't play into things things that happen.

G

They meet the if, if an applicant any applicant meets the com, um comprehensive plan and the.

G

Zoning ordinance and they go through every approving agency county highway state highway.

G

Health department, um the one thing that sometimes we hinge our decisions on is.

G

Does a project promote to health safety, welfare of the general public.

G

That's what we that's, what we do sometimes.

G

I do know that that turn is if, if approved, would be very troublesome as the last gentleman.

G

Who's spoken, I can't remember his name and I apologize brett as he mentioned. If you have a.

G

Trailer and I have both a trailer that I pull behind my vehicle and a boat.

G

And if there's cars in the lane leaving sand gates road with that curb there, that's at the from the.

G

Montana, the old montana, the brick building across the street you if it's you, have a really difficult.

G

Time making that turn without hopping. That curb, and I just see that as being more and more of a.

G

Problem for the for the bigger vehicles I mean there's plenty of commercial traffic.

G

In and out of there there's trash trucks, private trash trucks, there's mr dietrich's.

G

Tractor trailers, um we have the two restaurants and they I mean they have food trucks couple times.

G

A week but there's daily seafood, there's a lot of boats and and trailers and stuff in there. So.

G

Like say how we address that, I mean we could certainly ask for a traffic impact.

G

Study, maybe we could address some of them issues back to state highway if the board.

G

Chose to do that at the same time, maybe we could address back to the applicant.

G

um For a final answer would be some of the coverings on the building. You know the outside.

G

Like we spoke about, being, you know, a tin building, instead of brick, facade or something or whatever.

G

So just my couple observances um on what we've looked at and talked about, so that's all. I have.

A

Mr fazikas, in my three and a half years on this board, this is the first time we're considering.

E

A project where people have testified they've had loved ones die at the intersection of the project.

E

And I take that with heavy heart.

E

One of the and that's nothing against the applicant, but it's it's a it's a consideration.

E

And and as joe said, we have to consider the health, safety and welfare of the general public.

E

And without any more information about the traffic at the intersection, without a lengthy study.

E

About the safety about the actual speeds recorded about the turning about you know.

E

There's just not enough information here for me to be comfortable.

E

For something like this to go forward, I'm not saying the project itself.

E

Is not doable, I'm saying that there's not enough information and I have grave.

E

Concerns at this point, from what I've seen um and from what I heard. That's all I had to say.

A

Mr haven't you have anything I always so um I I agree with what mr fasikas just just said. I.

C

You know I I've been here a while, and so you know I take into consideration.

C

um The rights of developers and landowners and all that, but then the other, the other side of it is.

C

That um I I'm not always I don't always agree with the state of maryland state highway and I'm I'm.

C

I'm always disappointed in comments that are one paragraph they you know. I understand this concept.

C

I mean I get that, um but but uh we've talked about um access. You know joe talked about the queuing up.

C

You know the debt and, I said the dead spots, which are a problem. Brett talked about being able to.

C

Get a trailer in and out, you know without you know these this, this traffic backing up.

C

And- and I don't know that a traffic study would be uh as helpful as we'd like to think it would be.

C

um But I um again I would agree with mr facius. I would like to see more information with regard to.

C

What the state would do with that intersection, I mean how we, how can we, how can we make the.

C

Intersections safe or safer, and I'm not trying to put the burden on this applicant that road.

C

Was there a lot longer than your than the applicants when the applicants showed up? I.

C

Mean you have to deal with what uh historically has been there for for decades? Unfortunately,.

C

This board uh has to deal with that as well. I mean we, we didn't build the road, you know, but.

C

We have we listened to each one of these. You know you know sort of one at a time and and.

C

And again, I'm a I've always been a property rights person, uh everybody's brett's, yours, everybody's.

C

But when it comes to when it comes to building something that.

C

That I might look back on and say I could have done something differently or so did.

C

I have done something better so that there wasn't something that wasn't a mishap there.

C

I want to make sure that we have uh done as much as we possibly can and I don't want to put.

C

An unnecessary financial burden on the applicant again, you guys are going to have to deal with.

C

What's dealt you I mean that is what it is. I do think that there's probably some.

C

Ability for the state or somebody to engineer a.

C

That road, so that it's that it's more, I want to say palatable, because that's not really.

C

Where it's safer, so it's a little safer than the way it is now, and I don't know what that.

C

Means I don't know I mean you know, I'm not a traffic engineer. I mean I've seen a lot.

C

Of engineering, but you know I don't I mean I just don't know, but I do think that um the state or who.

C

Mr dietrich, whatever providing us with more information with regard to that intersection.

C

And it's a bit and its functionality, whether or not we could do what joe suggested and and paint.

C

What you do in the middle- I don't I don't know I mean I don't. I don't know about all that, but.

C

I do know this way, it is now I have a. I have um not a problem necessarily with with the um with.

C

With the with building it, um although I am concerned with regard to the.

C

Putting 10 pounds of mud the 5 pound sack, I don't want to say it quite, but that's what it is.

C

But you're right, you have crossed all your t's and you've dotted all your eyes.

C

And and and you've you've done all of that, our job is to make sure that once all that's.

C

Done that it's that it's safe and the only tool we have really is to make sure that it's going to be.

C

Safe and we can- and so we can, we can do that and I think that asking and possibly asking for someone.

C

To provide us with what information, whatever information that would be, whether it's traffic.

C

Study, whatever it is, and we've seen a lot of them, uh it's not that we're not gonna, not.

C

No, we don't. We understand the format, because the formats are all the same.

C

I think it would be helpful and I would like to see more information come.

C

From the state of maryland, too, I think they can be a bit more helpful other than to say olay.

C

And we'll see you down the road, um you know again, it's I understand it's a concept and you guys have.

C

Other other hurdles to to take care of, but I I, as a planning commission, we we just want to.

C

Do the best job we can do you know with projects like this, so I think I need more information with.

C

Regard to the the intersection and the safety intersection and how we can probably mitigate.

C

Some of the some of the issues that clearly would be described here. So that's where I am.

M

Right, I'm just going to echo basically what the three of you said and that is.

M

This project, in my opinion, presents.

M

This project um presents a safety issue that heretofore is not does not exist today,.

M

And again, I'm going to reiterate what they just said. um It is our responsibility on this.

M

Planning commission, to make sure that we are looking out for the safety and welfare of our.

M

Residents and I am not comfortable that that can be done with this project.

M

If there's more information and maybe a different um setback, so that it's not that close and.

M

I don't know if it's even possible, I'm not an engineer either so.

M

There's, if there's a better way that maybe would deter some of these issues, I'd like to see it.

M

At this point, um I I just don't feel comfortable with this.

A

Sinclair well, I think you've heard some of the issues that I had and I reiterate what.

I

Everyone else is saying: I'm just sitting here and I've said 15 years, I'm 72 years.

I

Old, it was I've traveled that road longer than that I've had three businesses in sandy bottom.

I

Swinging swat early bird antique business right there and I had to always go home to love bill.

I

I threaded that needle, but nor did I realize that it was her family that I witnessed.

I

That day until tonight, I did not know I just had general concerns about that intersection.

I

People, I don't know whether it's in their dna stupidity, whatever you want to call it well.

I

Stacking that intersection three side by side. Is it your fault? No you've done your bottom.

I

Dollar on your general on your journal on your store, okay, playing on words.

I

um But gentlemen, you might have met all the requirements, but the safety issue, whether you're.

I

Going to add to it or whether it's the mistake of the state, I cannot put my vote on a yay knowing.

I

That it's going to be added on to and make it a bigger problem at that intersection. You may live.

I

In waldorf for the 35 mile, an hour, speed limit, I pulled out of there with a 26 foot cobia with.

I

The f350 ford and I'm pushing close to 50 feet in length, and I won't even go to sand gates anymore.

I

Because number one people coming north that they'll turn they don't even have a turn signal on.

I

And you'll get halfway across that road and they'll make the turn to go into sand gates.

I

And I've got my family with me in that truck and I decided no way I I just can't do it. I know, what's.

I

There did you meet everything. Yes, according to engineers, reports, designers and everything else,.

I

But you have not satisfied me so far as that safety issue and mr pilkerton.

I

Works as a first responder.

I

And I have seen pieces of cars split in half and I don't know whether they were deceased.

I

Mangled or whatever and I'd be willing to bet you now, I've doubled that length of time. Gentlemen,.

I

I've traveled it for 30 years. I don't want it to come down to the almighty dollar or the safety.

I

Of the people, that's traveling that road. If it's the state's fault, then we need to get on them and.

I

Get on them bad, because if you're heading north most people won't hit the brakes until they get.

I

Probably to wentworth- and I guarantee, if you put a radar out there, you'll find out the average speed.

I

Is about 65 miles an hour and if you think you can pull out of there and hit your gas.

I

To get in front of them you're badly mistaken you just pull out, say the hail mary and pull on.

I

And that's I'm sorry to me: you have not met the the health. It may not be you.

I

But somebody- and I cannot sign off on something that I know it's not if it's when it's going.

I

To happen again, and you all are going to add more to it, I hope you can work with the state.

I

State needs to do something um when 235 was put down through there. The dual lane.

I

It was the almighty dollar that ruled it again. The width of that highway came from the acquisition.

I

Of the land that was on either side that median strip was based upon the traffic study at the time.

I

Not the base doubling quadrupling and all the traffic coming, those little.

I

Intersections were made for the time which was 30 40 years ago, and it just scares me to death.

I

That the state is not stepping up that. It's the almighty dollar that rules them as well, because.

I

It doesn't fit their budget and they won't acquisition more land to make a bigger, wider.

I

Intersection for people to to get in there and get out safely. So that's that's all. I have to say.

I

First of all,.

K

I think we've said everything that needs to be stated about uh vehicle traffic on uh at.

K

That intersection um for cyclists- um I just want to speak about that because um there's a lot of.

K

Increase, I mean there's an increased uh usage of 235 um as far as bikes go uh bicycles. Excuse me.

K

um Me being one of them, I'm proud to say that I actually rode my bike from uh behind the kmart. All.

K

The way up to love hill myself, I'm trying to make it all the way up to the uh the three notch trail.

K

uh And I use that shoulder uh to to make that make that ride. If you're coming up and down.

K

uh Coming up the on the north side, when people are uh at those yard sales we're forced to go into.

K

Traffic um as is, and it gets real real sketchy out there, so I can't even imagine moving traffic.

K

Coming out of a store right there at the corner, while I'm riding my bike up above 2,.

K

I I have to say something about the the fact that we I mean we talk about. uh What do you say.

K

The 10 pounds in the 5 pound bag, um the analysis that that was done there.

K

uh Was done in 2020 pre-covered, so I mean I would I would uh I would. I would assume.

K

That that the numbers probably changed, given what happened over the past year and a half.

K

And, and I think that we have to consider the fact that um brick and mortar retail is not really.

K

Way in the future, so we can plan for the next 15 years um and have uh additional empty buildings.

K

Up and down 235, or we can kind of read the read the uh the writing on the wall and understand.

K

They only at least for 15 years they'll be out of here and won't have any any type of.

K

Connection or requirement obligation to saint mary's county after that 15-year mark so.

K

Yeah, I'm not comfortable with it.

A

um From the beginning, um when we started talking about the entryway, I was kind of disappointed.

A

In the applicant, the only way to really fix that intersection is to give up some of your property.

A

To do that, um there would need to be a another lane added so that I'll say when people are.

A

Heading north on 235, they're gonna have two lanes that go down san gates, road, one that.

A

Could turn into your store one? So people could go around it and not stack that intersection up.

A

Also coming out of san gates road, but from the beginning, you're, even you all said it you're.

A

You're very constricted on what you can put on that site. So to me that that site's not.

A

Made for that store now, there's something somewhere along the line sometime somewhere.

A

That's going to go there I mean if you had bought the montana site on the other side. We'd, probably.

A

Be having a whole different conversation here tonight, but that wasn't for sale or for whatever.

A

But that site isn't big enough for what you want to do, and this is all my opinion. um You have very.

A

Dangerous, we went through this on another on a couple of sites here in the county. Some of them.

A

Came out good, some of them came out bad. Some of them went to appeals board, some of them didn't.

A

But in my opinion, that site is just too small for the traffic that is involved.

A

With that intersection, on top of that, there was no no real regard for the neighborhood there's.

A

Some nice houses, mr pilketon's, got a really nice looking house right down the road. I mean they're.

A

Coming in and out of there and and you have a nice church, as I said, even the businesses.

A

They keep yourself very, very neat up there in the amish businesses, everything it's a nice little.

A

Nice little place up there, and then you all want to you know, put a tin building in with no regard.

A

Of what faces the neighborhood or anything and and just the I'll say, the bare minimum on a 235.

A

Side, just because you said, there's traffic that goes by there fast wouldn't be noticed as much.

A

So I was somewhat disappointed in that, so with that I I can't I can't give. I can't support it so.

A

With all seven of those being said,.

A

I can see how the board's leaning does anybody want to make a motion? Well, let me just one point.

C

Just maybe get a consensus from the board, as opposed to.

C

An outright denial of this project would you want to give the applicant an opportunity to go back.

C

And approach state of maryland maybe do a traffic study. I mean I'm just you know.

C

If you think it would be helpful, if they you know, could come back or if they would do it.

C

I mean, as opposed to voting, to deny it vote to continue it and have them reach out.

C

And then they will either reach out or they will destroy. Can I ask you a question, mr chairman.

I

We've all sat here tonight and said that a traffic study would not bear.

I

The information that was witnessed here tonight by the people that came out in the public but.

C

The traffic, if the traffic study shows that it is super fine, it's a a rating and in my heart.

I

Mural that gives them the right to move forward. If we say based upon the traffic study, you can move.

I

Forward, I don't think it says that at all joe I just I mean I understand. I understand that that.

C

um We have said we don't know what the traffic's do, I'm not a traffic engineer joe. Neither are you.

C

So I don't know, I don't know what the traffic study may or may not yield. I don't I mean I don't.

C

Know it may come back and say, look there's nothing. We can do at that point. It's going to be denied.

C

I mean so my my point is only this. My point is you know we take a vote without that. Without that.

C

Consideration, my guess: it's going to be denied. My was a question. It wasn't. You know I didn't.

C

Make a motion I just asked the question: would it be beneficial to do that and if the board.

C

Believes that it's no then it's no, I mean you know so I mean I'm not I'm not.

C

You know I I'll vote. However, I vote, um but it's just. uh I don't know if.

A

A traffic a suggestion, I don't know either site analysis- would help, but a state highway.

A

um Investigation might help. But if it's going to hurt you because it's going to cut into your lot.

A

They're not going to cut into the montana a lot because the montana's not.

A

Not hurting a soul, you know so they're not trying to build something. But if we don't agree, I mean if.

C

We can, if we don't agree to get more information, I'm going to vote. No, I don't have a choice. I.

C

Don't have enough information, I mean we can ask the applicant, I mean, do you feel comfortable.

A

You you hear what we said and well if a traffic study was was to come back. I I certainly.

D

Appreciate this conversation, I'm you're all being honest and and you're you're saying your mind.

D

I do get the impression that the public testimony and a lot of you are going by um I'll, say.

D

Personal feelings and personal input and we're not necessarily following the ordinances.

D

That's what I hear, maybe I'm not hearing correctly, but I do get. You know the the the stories that.

D

We heard tonight and that you can attest to you could probably say about a lot of intersections in.

D

St mary's county- probably more intersections than not so we I think we need to keep that in mind.

D

We are, if you deny this, we are denying the use of this property, which is what it's zoned for.

D

You know, as I've said, you know, the zoning ordinance allows what we're doing here.

D

I certainly appreciate that you're you may be asking for a traffic study. There is some right of.

D

Way that we could possibly widen those radiuses out front without encroaching on the montana's.

D

Site, so we probably could do something there, and I've already said that we would, if needed, go to.

D

The state and talk to them about what, if anything, could be done with the crossover which I think is.

D

Probably where most of the problems lie, I hear all these problems, but yet everyone still lives here.

D

And everyone still uses the intersection, uh you know if it was that bad, you probably would have.

D

Moved away so what I think I'm hearing is that what's happening at this intersection happens at.

D

Many intersections people are driving too fast. I can't control that none of us can can control that.

D

Perhaps if a light was put there or a light further down the road, it would slow down the.

D

Traffic, a little bit more, um this one parcel of a two acres, no matter what's put here.

D

Isn't going to be able to afford putting a light there and I'm not so sure, that's the answer anyway.

D

So um I I appreciate your honesty um and I can almost hear how the vote's gonna go.

D

I would like the to respectfully ask that if I think it's going to go the way it's going.

D

To go that perhaps we would continue it. I could consult with my client and perhaps we could come.

D

Back in a month or two- and you know, give you an update on what we're you know if we have a plan.

D

If we're going to proceed with a traffic study, if we I'm certainly going to consult with the traffic.

D

Consultant that I use that you all know very well um if there is an opportunity to solve the problem.

D

Or make it better, then you know perhaps that might be a way to go. If nothing happens,.

D

The intersection's staying the way it is so I think you all need to keep that in mind. That.

D

If nothing happens, nothing is going to change and I find it very difficult because I'm involved I've.

D

Been doing this for 35 years that it's hard for the citizens or your board to petition the state.

D

Of maryland, to fix that intersection, how it's going to get fixed is if a developer helps fix. It.

D

Or perhaps a road pull, maybe two or three other projects come along and we all do something.

D

um If, if you deny this project nothing's going to happen, the status quo is going to stay the same.

D

Same as it is, I I personally agree with mr evans that we should give the developer the.

G

Opportunity to answer the concerns and questions that we had and there may be more. I think I.

G

Personally, don't think a traffic impact study is going to show much, but I would like to see a.

G

Traffic impact study, because it does show other things than the movements it shows.

G

Stacking distances and stuff that they anticipate from the new business. So I I would think that.

G

We would want to know the traffic impact study and have it.

G

I would think that some of the board members- I would personally.

G

Through lugum, of course, send mr hunt or brandy a concern: can you reach out to state highway.

G

And address our stacking, my stacking concern on the 235 turn lane and the general.

G

Concepts there, um I don't think that your project is going to do much for the middle.

G

Of the intersection, once you get out into the middle, that's a mess now anyway, but I still have a.

G

Concern that mr varga brought up about the vehicle stacking up on two-thirds. It only takes one stack.

G

Up trying to get into the dollar general site and if there's 15 cars trying to get the other way.

G

If they can't move to, let them in then it's still going to be. It could be a few more.

G

Vehicles coming in and stacking up, so I would personally want to see traffic impact study.

G

I would I would myself I'm sure some of the other members may send mr hunt some info that we would.

G

Try to get from the state that would be one for me is to see if what their thoughts on this kind of.

G

Stuff is and what kind of difference exterior of the building could you provide and then.

G

There are some other questions that some board members may have, but I I would think it's.

G

My opinion is to continue give the applicant to time to answer the concerns and then possibly.

G

Come back but, like I said, I'm just one one person up here because I can interject uh mr van kirk and.

E

Mr evans, um I don't think any amount of study right now is going to come up with the solution.

E

At least when we're looking at it at the with the microscope, with this particular project in mind,.

E

And to correct the applicant, there are other ways: traffic can be corrected. We we do have.

E

An npo we do have other state funding where we can make this a priority. Just we've been.

E

Trying, although it hasn't happened yet to make the thomas johnson bridge a priority, there.

E

Are other ways without development that these things can happen and it's when the community.

E

Comes to these meetings and they speak up and they tell their people who who who represents them.

E

In annapolis- and they speak up- and they say we want this- this we're sick and tired of people.

E

Having accidents and hearing these things and seeing these helicopters and losing our.

E

Families and families- um you know these things can be corrected. I think, unfortunately, the owner.

E

Of this property is going to have a hard time, no matter what they come to develop with the.

E

Existing conditions and existing conditions are not the fault of the property owner, but it is.

E

Any kind of development- the word development you know is progress- is going to generate traffic even.

E

If it's just one car a day, even if somebody said it's, um it's not a chain store about a mom and pop.

E

If I open up a crocheting business, for example, not that I would, but if I did even that one extra car.

E

Could be the next um instigator of an accident at the situ, an intersection, so anything coming.

E

Forward to this, unless until that prop that that traffic situation is rectified, I don't think is.

E

Going to to get my vote, so um I do think that the applicant has the rights to go back and do.

E

That but I don't think that in this situation, there's going to be enough uh evidence to come.

E

Back to us that to change enough minds uh on the case, it's not again not what you guys have done.

E

In terms of trying to develop the property and um it's not about the dollar general itself, I think.

E

Just about the other extraneous situations and conditions adjacent to the property.

A

I take exception with two of the statements you made. um Yes, you, you followed the points of the law.

A

But it's still a small piece of property with a building that you.

A

Even said is so tight that you had to do configurations with at a bad intersection.

A

And you also said that if the intersection was that bad, that um people would have moved away.

A

Saint mary's county people don't move away we're here. You know we grew up with that intersection.

A

Mr pilkerton knows that intersection that lady back there knows that intersection. We, I won't say.

A

We just deal with it, but we're not we're not going to go away and and with somebody else coming in.

A

Doing the the least amount of of um I'll say preparation in order to try to do this. In my.

A

My opinion, I think I I can't just can't go for it.

A

As I said, saint mary's county people don't move, we stay people come people move into the county.

D

My point was, and is that.

D

By doing nothing, it's not going to solve a problem, the problem's not going to go away. If, if that's.

D

Well, that's what I mean we do that! That's that's what we mean, but it's not going to increase either.

A

Yes right, we just deal with what we have to deal with so right, but with new development.

D

And if there is an upgrade there is a there is a possibility that upgrades could be done.

D

To help solve the problem, I'd like to see them do away with the intersection.

I

Well, that's probably not a bad idea; you could make it a right turn only and get rid of the crossover.

A

Well, I mean if it wasn't to be turned down tonight, whether it be approved or turned down if it was.

A

Turned down you have another avenue to go, and that would be the board of appeals. You know to.

A

Give them what you you said I I can't speak for the board of appeals. They they.

A

I don't want to say they just think differently than we do. They have a different set of rules.

A

They have to follow, but um you can hear basically what this board thinks tonight and I hope, if it.

A

When it ever went to the board of appeals, they think they listen to what we have said tonight.

A

You know you don't always have to sometimes it's the spirit of the law that has to be followed.

I

The state of maryland is a number cruncher. They were not there when the accidents happen.

I

There is a formula and everybody keeps alluding to it. Is it based upon one more person getting killed.

I

Down in sandy bottom, the light right there at the early bird went in because.

I

Of mr gentleman that I know got killed there and they said well we'll finally get our light.

I

I don't want to have that type of statistics when I'm sitting here and I've witnessed it for.

I

30 years, yes, you've done everything according to the rule, the only thing is is whether the state's.

I

Done it and you're going to add to it, you said: if nothing is done, it's going to remain the same.

I

But I don't want to see adding to it, and that is a given that you will add to it.

A

Okay, german, any other discussion. I'd like to make a motion go for it in a matter of concepts. I plan.

E

Zero 20-1320 one two dollar general mechanicsville, having accepted the staff report and having made a.

E

Findings that the objectives of section 60.6, the comprehensive zoning ordinance have not been met.

E

And known that, the reference project has not met all requirements for.

E

Concept approval: I move that the concept site plan b denied.

A

I have a motion. Do I have a second a second.

A

Okay, mr physique, I'm with this we're voting now, mr fazikas. No, I'm holding disappoint any discussion. I.

C

I should have brought that maybe brought up before um I brought up the the the the thought of of a.

C

um Having a traffic study done.

C

The consensus of the board is that not something that they would want to do.

C

Well, okay and the answer well joe, and I said I can make a consensus of that. If you would like to hold.

A

Your I withdraw my emotion for now yeah I'd just like to pull the board. I mean just to get an idea.

C

And if the answer is no, the answer is no. No, almost on you. No, no! No! No! Yes! Yes! No, okay, emotion, okay,.

A

We still have your emotion, though our notion stands next motion stance and with your second.

A

Stance, I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. So now, I'm voting on the motion you vote.

A

Well, I mean you vote for your motion. Your motion was to deny sorry you have to vote. Yes,.

I

That's right, those are voting ballots like that too. You know specifically forgive me. I was I.

E

Wasn't I haven't been here got to be specific, mr mr evans, yeah so lacking further information.

C

I would say I as well same eye: okay, um ms robert hi, mr hall aye, mr saint claire hi, also vote aye.

A

Okay, thank you very much for your time. Thank you all for your patience. Good luck to you! Thank you.

I

Is there any other business motion to adjourn.

A

Have a second all in favor of the motion, all right, we're adjourned. Thank you.

A