St. Mary's County, MD Redistricting Board for St. Mary's County, 12 Oct 2021

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From YouTube: 10/12/21 Redistricting Board for St. Mary's County

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A

Let's call this redistricting meeting the order um rich johnson, I'm the chair, we're first going.

A

To do a roll call so to my left, matt bergen, pat richardson, to my right, paul thompson, lance.

B

Johnson, okay, we have a quorum, we can go, uh we're gonna go over agenda, it was basically new maps.

A

And for the people watching, we had to do new maps because there was a little.

A

Glitch in the where everybody was, and particularly district 4 and district 1., so.

A

Let's first we'll get to that later. Let's uh so, the agenda is if everyone's did a new map, it's.

A

Going to go over those we'll show them and you can go over what you did and why you did it so.

A

uh Does everyone approve of, I think I don't think we're gonna we're not gonna vote today, on which.

A

Map it'll be, of course, we've been hit with this data chain, so we'll do it on the next meeting.

A

But at least you can we'll have all the maps for you to look at by tomorrow. I believe it's going.

A

To have so, you can take a look at it and then the next meeting we will do a vote on what we're going.

A

To do so, I move to accept the agenda as presented. Is there a second? Second, all those in favor say.

A

Aye aye no oppose eyes have it motion carries next the minutes I looked at them. They looked fine.

A

The uh we had the start time was a little delayed because lance and his other stuff, but uh they look.

A

Good the content's there so do I hear a motion to accept the meetings. That's the minutes of october.

A

6Th, do I hear a second all, those in favor of the minute say: aye aye, all those opposed say.

A

Nay, no nays eyes have it so getting back to our first subject, we had to redo our maps because the.

A

Data was it didn't change the total population? All those numbers are the same, except there was some.

A

Changes that were found so eric if you want to quickly, go over what happened, and then we can.

A

Talk about our lead in statement from matt for the verbiage, so eric. uh So what we um discovered was.

C

That uh the maps were showing the in incorrect boundary between um districts, uh one and four.

C

And there's a long history of how that occurred prior to the 2013 redistricting board. uh What is.

C

Currently, precincts 806, 811 and 804 were only two precincts 806, which is what it is now in.

C

Addition to the base and 8004, which is what it is now in addition to this portion south of the base.

C

Prior to the 2013 redistricting commission, um due to population and and and balancing um people at.

C

Polling places a third precinct was created, 0811, which contains both the base and and and south.

C

It was carved out of these two other existing precincts when the redistricting commission met in.

C

2013 uh they put in their report that all of eight eleven the newly formed precinct uh should fall in.

C

District 4., but the previous district line followed between the two precincts along the south.

C

Edge of the base and the map that was published with the report did not update that district line.

C

um And so the maps that have been used and were thus used and checked against for this commission.

C

um uh Can propagated on that error of showing the district line continuing uh along the south end.

C

Of the base, and so the numbers that were initially given you as far as the population of four and one.

C

um Basically, about 2 800 people living in this section below the base were attributed to district.

C

One instead of properly attributed to district uh four, so, as I said, all the overall population.

C

Numbers are the same. The numbers within each census block are the same. It was uh simply which.

C

District, they were attributed to, and uh elections uh checked and in their election software. That.

C

Creates the ballots uh everybody within that district was in the correct precinct. So at no time.

C

Did this affect any voters or any change? It was simply the visual representation over the last.

C

uh Nine years that showed that precinct line in the incorrect place.

C

So, thankfully we were able to catch that and hopefully still give you enough time to.

C

Make your decision? Okay, that's good! Thank you for catching that pre-draft decision. That was.

D

Much appreciated so before we go any further. I want to just put up our the verbiage that matt had.

A

The county lawyer put together kind of like our.

A

How are we just doing what we're doing and we're basically doing? We had legal guidance, and this.

A

Is what we're following so we go to the public and they ask: why did you do that and let's say.

A

Well, we're trying to follow this kind of plan to do all these different uh readjustments, so.

A

It's online, you can anyone watching, can read this and uh you can see what our objective is.

A

So we'll leave it up for a little bit now I would like to unless you want to read, come to agreement.

D

So this this was a draft that I put out. I tried to capture, you know what we've gone off so far to.

D

Get to where we are and where we desire to be, but um with respect to the objective considerations.

D

That was the prioritization that I used so obviously not necessarily reflective on you all.

D

So, but if there is, if we have a difference of opinion or as.

D

We're refining and fine-tuning and finalizing this final draft. I think that there would be.

D

Value in us agreeing to that prioritization or if there's changes to be made to the prioritization.

D

Because that can help not settle a dispute per se, but it gives us.

D

That now we're all we're all going down the same path to get to the common objective.

E

So, are you saying that where you have additional objectives, that number one is the highest priority.

E

And that would have to be addressed first or are they all part of additional considerations?.

E

Depending on what we find as we work through so as I'm yep, so the first one, because we've.

D

You know, we've heard a couple times based off previous case law and the commonality in the.

D

Using of natural boundaries that that, for me, was my number one, because that's that's the seems to.

D

Be the most arguable arguable case to stand behind, should there be any disagreement? Two was for me to.

D

Get to as close to absolute zero exceeding the the 10 guidance three was minimizing the changes.

D

But now you know seeking further understanding of you know the definition of impact with it.

D

With respect to these, these maps um that may drop down the list, for me.

D

And then, based off uh our conversation last week, the extending the uh extending the budding.

D

Districts to include three and five or I'm sorry, three and four, three and four there's a typo there.

D

Should it say three and four there's no district, five for ease of fairness, the future redistrict.

D

Requirement so that's those are the things that I took into consideration to develop. My math.

D

My map again, this is a draft this. uh This was me personally, but I think if we can come to agreement.

D

On how we prioritize these, then it'll help us collectively come up with a final draft to present.

E

The only thing that I would question would be the cases where you're mentioning future.

E

Because we did get a response to a question last time that we really have to deal with what is now.

E

And not speculate on the future, but so, for example, on two I'm fine up to 10, uh not not only ex.

E

Obtain as close to an equal distribution of population.

E

uh Regarding ten, the ten percent guidance, something like that.

E

I I'm just a little concerned that by talking about future fluctuation, it opens a door.

E

For people to have expectations that we're going to be.

E

Actually, studying or looking at planning and zoning, and things like that, I understand that.

D

Completely so that's the initial conversation with not focusing on future data, so we're not.

D

Speculating that any that any respective district as it was originally or that or as we propose it.

D

To be we're not taking that into consideration, you know based off current rate of growth building.

D

Permits approved, etc. So this is basically saying that any district can fluctuate in any direction.

D

They can gain population or lose population, but we can still maintain a relatively equal distribution.

D

For for the out years, so beyond the body of this board,.

D

So the objective of attempting to get to absolute zero was just so that any one of these districts.

D

Could go up or down and we're still within that threshold, but it wasn't. There was no consideration.

D

Or speculation taken um if any individual district will go up or down in population. This is.

D

This broadly supports um any district going up or down and still keeping a relatively close balance.

A

I mean I'm using what the lawyers told us be within you know, 10 or so I mean that's. That's.

A

Directly from the lawyer: that's what it's nice to use! If we can, you know natural boundaries, I mean.

A

I did it in my maps, but you know sometimes you can't so I don't want this to hold us.

A

Fixed the only thing that's fixed right now is the ten percent.

A

You know we'll vote, we already know that, but I think I mean this is a nice guideline, but I don't.

A

Want it to hold us to the fire, because sometimes you know when you start doing these maps, you can't.

A

Get it exact, though I did pretty good, though you wait. Do you see mine at you like it can't wait, but.

A

I would say I don't necessarily want to vote to, pin us down. At least we are pinned down right now.

A

With a 10- and you know, and like yourself, I like to get down to zero too, and I did pretty well.

A

But I would say, let's take a look at what all the people have done, and I mean these are the.

A

Criteria you're going to be weighing anyway, when you look at these different maps anyway, so.

A

That's already going to give you like, hey, I, like this guy or you like your map better than.

A

Anybody else so at least do we all agree at least we're still attacking or going for the 10 percent.

A

That's what we were instructed to, but legal, uh st mary's kind of legal.

A

And this is a nice guideline, but I don't want to pin us down because.

A

Plants, even you, you know, you've, probably seen stuff where you like to do it, but you can't.

A

So I guess I see the additional objective considerations, we'll probably reorder them.

B

Based on the map we generate, I mean if these are our considerations. We'll probably have to I mean.

B

Re-Rank them for the map right at the end, you're going to look at the maps and you're going to use.

A

This probably the guideline because we've already agreed to you, know natural boundaries and doing.

A

Stuff, like that, so it's going to give you kind of a scoring when you start looking at these.

A

Different maps, which ones you like right now, all I was trying to say was like for item three. Maybe.

B

We decided that minimizing changes, the final map, maybe minimizes changes. Therefore, we bump it up to.

B

Two and the list, just so people see with the kind of the order how we attacked the problem right and.

B

We can refine the wording here too. If posed the question how'd you get here, it would be nice to.

D

Be able to show objective criteria that we based right and it's right here. It's like vibration on.

A

We are going to for a lot of these, so I don't. I don't want that to pin us down, though I am going.

A

By that, you know out your boundaries and trying to get to small, as I can, for every every district.

A

But you know so I think we're good on item one, but after that everything's in dispute. Correct.

E

Is it maybe, in the title, additional objective considerations taken by the board.

E

Does make it sound like we have voted on this or taken action? Is it more to get what.

E

You were saying rich: is it more a guidance guidelines followed by the board that'd, be.

A

Probably better, instead of putting us without to saying that one is a priority, correct the.

A

Others correct yes, so we're not gonna. I mean they all add to a final score on what you like.

A

Or what all the board likes, but you know we're not going to be. You know, pinned down.

A

To it at least, we are pinned down by the 10 percent. We are doing that so.

A

So how about next we start looking at the maps but just to eric described what happened with the data.

A

We didn't lose any data, just it was wasn't put in the right place, border wise, but to give.

A

The viewer, an idea of what we had to do with our maps district 4, was prior had about 5023.

A

Population had to lose in comparison to the average of all the other districts.

A

But once eric found that issue with the borders it's now 7641, so we had to redo our maps to.

A

Compensate for that! What 2796 extra people that were now in four that we weren't aware of.

A

So I guess next we'll just go over our maps and you can explain you know what.

A

You did and why you did it, so I guess we'll start with matt. If you want to.

A

Go first, doesn't matter go first, if you want what you want to do it happily, okay,.

D

And then eric, if you would mind, can you just uh show the total population.

D

So this map reflects um that actually improved the delta from my previous map. So right now it's.

D

District one is the highest uh district, three is the lowest. The difference between the two is.

D

378 people um utilizing natural boundaries, I try and utilize natural boundaries. I took four up.

D

235 northbound side district 2, 235 southbound side tried to use some of the major roads and.

D

Highways to dissect respective maps- initially it threw me off pretty you know considerably, but.

D

Again, thank goodness, it was caught prior to our bringing a draft to to the uh to.

D

To the community, when they show up so as close to as close well within the threshold for.

D

You know for total population over 18 and voter population registered voters, equal distribution.

D

Of polling places, there were some changes to existing districts, but you know again with.

D

Further understanding of the definition of impact, I wasn't as concerned with that and then having.

D

Four be able to now about to three allows for this to be a much easier process. Moving moving along.

A

Okay, anybody have any questions on matt's mat. Did you make any changes from your.

B

Previous map, or, were you already figuring out? What were the significant changes? Okay, you see. You also.

A

He took some of of one in uh the north.

A

If I had a mouse, I could do it, but I'm relying on eric to yeah there you go.

A

See you took that area, okay, gotcha and the other area down great mills. He did that.

D

Yeah after the the latest change, it was even more difficult to remain within existing districts.

D

Right you'll see my population distribution objective, but um it's close. It's concise, okay,.

A

What did the register you go through? All I just saw okay, total pop.

A

Okay, that's well now. What's the other one, look like okay.

A

We'll I'll look at these numbers together and plug them in, but it's probably pretty close to zero looks like.

A

For percent wise all right, I'm good anybody else have any questions for matt.

A

I guess pat you're next.

E

Okay, I went back and I'm going to start at the bottom and work up, so I put park hall st.

E

Mary city, I put that whole section where the current map says it is even though we understand.

E

Now that that was not correct, I still felt that that area could fit back there. uh I'm and I'm.

E

Gonna jump around a little bit in the north. I stayed on one side of the natural boundary and.

E

Moved down a little bit further closer to oakville, I also took, I think it's 601 602 603.. I took the.

E

600 or this precinct sixes several of them and moved them into two.

E

And I do have wild wood in.

E

Four, I felt it was important to keep the communities together, so that was my driving force.

E

When I went through- and I was a little concerned that due to population some of them cover.

E

A very large geographic area and four now covers a very small geographic area, but that was not a.

E

Requirement of our design, so I stayed within the ten percent. um Two now is my highest district.

E

I think one is the lowest even with the addition.

E

And then eric if we could look at the registered voters.

E

It's similar pattern. I felt that it was important to try to.

E

Get those get all four districts in population as close to the average.

E

As possible, but that was not my only concern or my overriding concern.

E

I was more concerned with the characteristics of the populations and the districts.

A

Anybody have any questions for pats mats.

A

Maps, what's what's the dividing line in wildwood? Is that the precinct, let's see eric, if you can.

E

There, what there were one or two places where.

E

I had to split, I think I split one precinct, possibly two in order to get the numbers closer.

B

A

Anybody else have any questions for.

A

Matt you're looking at so you must have a question. Oh no, just oh! You look pretty intent.

A

So if anybody has any other questions I'll go next, you can bring up my map.

A

That's lance johnson, that's my brother! I'm sorry.

A

I know we're, we don't look, we look similar. So let me go through my attack.

A

What I did so my first attack was, you know we, we talked about chestnut hills and ridge, keeping them.

A

Together or putting them together, um I kept them both into one, because the most of the population.

A

Wasn't won originally 524 populations so, instead of pushing it out into two, I just kept it in one.

A

So that's what I did. That was my first attack. Next, I want to attack uh district 4 because.

A

There was a lot of extra people in there, so the first thing I did I took similar to, I think.

A

Or matt you did the same thing similar. I took section of great mills and also just across.

A

Route: five, it didn't make sense having the other one across route fives this little area. So I.

A

Brought that into one from four, but that still wasn't enough, and so the next thing I did. I took.

A

Wildwood and put that all from four into two, and also looking, of course, it kept them all together.

A

An entire community because that's the other thing we're looking at trying to keep everybody together.

A

uh And similar to what matt did I'm not copying you matt, but I did something similar to you. I.

A

Went all the way up on the right side of 235 and put that into four, and once I did.

A

All that I gave a little bit on the top back to three, because three has been low overall.

A

And not many people butt up against three so, but once I did that there was a imbalance, so I got.

A

4, okay, but what happened was I had an imbalance between 1 and 3 and they don't butt up against.

A

Each other, so what I had to do is I cut into basically had you know, take two grab into.

A

Can you see right past while wood can you zoom in right there yeah so again, kind of like.

A

Following borders, like we've, been doing, I extended two past wildwood. Until I got the.

A

Numbers I needed to compensate between uh one and three and basically I'm I'm stealing from.

A

One and bringing to the other so and then after that I adjusted if you go all the way back to.

A

Zoom out there you go go between the border of uh three and two and I basically grabbed some of two.

A

To put into three to level it out, and there was once I did- that there was some minor tweaking. I.

A

Had to do around the chestnut hills, some to get near zero, but uh my final numbers since I didn't.

A

Do my numbers um population for the percent was like .069 to 3.39 percent, so go down the numbers.

A

District 1 basically was -578 in population, meaning they could absorb some.

A

District two is 250 that they could absorb and three and four or like 4, 24 and 404. So pretty.

A

Close to zero same thing with voters, voters greater than 18 I had for .43 to 5.5 percent.

A

uh Registered voters I was .32 to 6.43, but other than that you know everything was.

A

Under 10 and of course, population was the best and that's what we've been aiming at.

A

So that was my attack. I try to like, I said, use borders like we agreed not agreed to, but kind of a.

A

Guideline so that's sort of what I did, so anybody have any questions or paul. You got any questions.

A

No, it was something similar what matt did, but then, with the x.

A

Extra, you know over two thousand extra and four-way I had we had to do.

A

Well, I had to do some other stuff, like everyone else had to do some other stuff in the maps.

A

Any questions comments.

A

Okay, I guess your next paul.

B

Okay, yeah, after the change this time around um trying to figure out how to make this work.

B

The first thing I did was you know we got to move over 7 000 people out of district 4., so I right.

B

Off the bat I moved wildwood into district 2, which is a little over almost 8 000 people.

B

So then, after that I had to balance out um and so to balance out, I pulled people from two.

B

Along that edge there I pulled people from two into three.

B

And that was just to bring up the population in three um trying to use natural boundaries.

B

Actually, I started using the creeks more because the creeks don't split neighborhoods.

B

People don't build across the creeks, so that's why I got not things aren't as rectangular anymore.

B

And then so I only added people to three uh two. I added I mean four. We, it was all.

B

Subtraction just wildwood and then for one it was just I added in all of uh chestnut ridge.

B

There and then that the south side of uh great mills road just add a few more people right, yeah.

A

I saw that too. It didn't make sense on that one. The net result is, there is still there's.

B

A big difference between two and one: it's a nine percent difference with this map.

B

But I think there's I mean there's still places to work, I mean. Obviously we could.

B

Rework it a little bit. I was trying not to break up wildwood, but there are three precincts in there.

B

So if we, if that's something that we could.

B

Kind of attack at a little bit I mean, obviously that can kind of maybe balance things out. This.

B

Balance this map a little more quickly by moving wildwood around a little bit.

B

A

Did you go through the other, so that's total pop just I just want to say one more thing and.

B

I did actually try to not change as little as possible. I mean I, I kept the boundaries, as is.

B

Except for you know like in two I brought in move two precincts. You know I try to keep it big chunks.

B

um Obviously, it gets a little messy between two and three.

B

But I really tried to keep the changes minimal to make this happen. That's why.

B

My percentage is so high, so if we rank that higher, I don't know a vote for it. Yeah, okay,.

A

I guess no more questions for paul. I guess next is lance.

F

Yeah, I have not made any changes to mine. I had a death in the family over the weekend, so I.

F

Hadn't really gotten a chance to do much, but uh the can you look at my total numbers from.

F

When they made that change, was it in district 4? Did that change anything.

C

A

Other jobs here you go yeah there we go.

F

Because really my main focus was trying to balance out. You know the total population. So oh, I think.

C

um I'll have to go to our versions, because I think I had you'd asked to reset this map so.

C

Your previous version is that what you wanted to see yeah yeah, because I wanted to see with that change- that just totally blew out all my numbers.

F

Could one just get lopsided.

C

um This this version is has not been updated, though, with the with the with the change since.

C

These were historic versions. I didn't want to go back and change them, but it would that change.

C

Would add 2 800 people to your district 4 as it stands here and remove that many from so basically.

C

It would look the same, one would drop and four would go up to be about equal with the others.

F

So, if anything, it would um bring all of the districts more in the last microphone.

F

Yelling me sorry, um so if that's the case, then, if it went in district four, it might balance my.

F

Because originally I had four a little less, so if that's the case, then it would bring a little more.

F

Into four and kind of bring that more in line to with the other districts, yes, it would bring four.

C

Up closer in line, but it would take one down um to be a little out of line. It would basically swap.

C

One and four, as far as their relative heights, okay.

F

All right I mean I didn't really make any much changes uh or didn't make any changes, but my.

F

Whole concept was trying to basically just by the total population. I didn't really even pay.

F

Attention to the number of registered voters that were in there, I didn't pay attention to any other.

F

Thing other than looking at a contiguous trying to keep contiguous borders as close as possible.

F

Without making it look too weird, and so originally I just took a little bit out of um originally. I.

F

Took put some more back into two, so it was a little bit more contiguous as it was before.

F

Which he's cut a little bit out of four, but in order to get made two so heavily lopsided? I gave.

F

I took a line and went straight down and kind of stayed um all the way down to britain bay, giving.

F

Population back to three or giving two three and then I came in to district one kind of went.

F

Through great mills and then kind of came down to where um I think it was, it was a crest view.

F

Neighborhood down there, so the whole idea was to kind of really more just take and have a balance.

F

Of population as close as possible between all four and uh I was uh with four initially.

F

It looked had it like it had less population, but if this is the case where that.

F

Some of from one goes back to four and it kind of evens it out.

F

It uh probably solidifies what I submitted initially um so so once he gets his map updated.

A

You wanna tweak it a little bit or I'll look at it and, like I said, if, if those numbers actually.

F

Shift and it kind of it kind of make balance it out, because I that's what I really like about.

F

Matchmap and I like about your map- and I mean everybody's trying to keep the each district in in.

F

Around the same with less than 10 as close to zero as possible, I think that's good, um so I have to.

F

Take a look at it again, but- um and I can do that- I can take your version. One okay just make the the.

C

Change just make that one change and reload it as your version, two okay, essentially all right,.

A

Yeah, your bar trucks are just gonna, look like that yeah yeah, but I'm hoping that, like I said,.

F

It'll just look a little bit more in line and then uh I'll see. If I want to play with it, some.

F

More but for the most part, I might be a little bit actually a little more happier with it. Okay.

A

Anybody have any questions for well, lance is going to be tweaking anyway, so all right, so any other.

A

Things to go over, I guess we're going to be taking a look at the maps that eric is going to put on.

A

For all versions, so we can take a look at them in addition to what we just saw.

A

uh We have meeting monday the 18th. We were going to vote for a map. I mean we already voted before.

A

That we were going to do a finals, you know, get an answer, so we don't think we have to vote on.

A

That gang, except we got delayed because of the data issue, so how's that vote gonna go.

B

um We'll have we can raise hands five, we can raise hands, I mean three: is a majority so or you can.

A

Just do run through each one and score it, and just how many people like it, how many people don't or.

D

Is there one any one of ours that we collectively feel is closest, and then we can collectively.

D

Fine-Tune it to something that we can all get behind, but I don't think it necessarily has.

D

To be, you know only one out of the five I'd like the final map that we bring to.

D

Have the backing of everybody and input from everybody and be representative of.

D

All of our inputs, instead of I mean that's just my recommendation. Instead of just rubber stamping.

D

Mats or lances, or polls or richards- and this is r1- let's eric's, going to put the updated.

A

Maps on there we can take a look at and you can you're going to know what you like and.

A

Don't like, in addition to yours I mean you may like mine, I don't know I mean like yours, yours.

A

And mine were a little bit similar in different things. Yeah, they were close very close. You know.

A

I didn't call you, our approach doesn't just align to what other people like it. Just it's going to.

D

Be difficult, I was just working the numbers like you, it's like. Okay, we got a big problem with four.

A

Addition with the the issue with the boundaries, and now we had to actually do more so so I think.

A

I'll get close to the mic, so I don't get yelled at. um So, let's take a look at what eric puts on there.

A

And then uh well you're going to know what maps you like and we'll come back monday and hopefully.

A

We all can get behind one and maybe do a little tweaking and then we say yeah. We all like it.

E

I, like matt's idea about trying to find one that has emerged as the strongest so far, but.

E

Maybe we would like a little bit of change or, if that's possible, I think I mean. I think that.

E

Gives us a structure, I don't want to just review and you know pros and cons again.

E

I I'm of the opinion right now where ultimately, the voters are. This are the voice. That's who.

E

Matters in all of this, so we'll get that feedback. When we go to public forum, I, like many aspects.

E

Of your map, I'm still uncomfortable with going all the way up through hollywood through oakville.

E

Because they are intact communities that have been around a long time and if there were a way.

E

To even just come down from oakville and maybe pick up population somewhere else,.

E

I that that would cause me to lean more in the right direction. Yeah. Maybe it's not possible.

D

And I kind of go back because I I think you know again: impact is fairly subjective term. So, if.

D

If this impacted more than somebody getting an updated voter registration card,.

D

If you know if they like new location or they have to change.

D

That's that's where I'm going to continue to see clarification, so I have a firm understanding of.

D

When we say how many people are impacted well in what way, and to what extent are they.

D

Impacted because for me personally, if you told me, I had to drive to a new location or you know this.

D

Is my spot I'm used to it or you know any other way, then hey you've got a new uh voter id coming.

D

In the mail, then, I'm probably not going to be upset or disrupted in any way. So I I guess, maybe.

D

We can also work to seek further clarification on exactly how for the individuals, because.

D

Individuals will have their respective district changed, it's just. It has to happen to meet the 10.

D

Rule and for those individuals that are impacted to what extent are they impacted and because.

D

We need to be able to clearly define that if someone says well, you've changed my district.

D

How dare you I want to be able to say wait, we ask those same questions to support the boe. Hopefully.

D

Be able to tell them look, we understand this is this. Is this? Is the impact to your change and.

D

If that's minimal or hyper minimal, then I suspect, like oh, never mind we're good. But if we're telling.

D

This this changes things immensely. Then I want to take that into more consideration. Please yeah.

G

So neil murphy, deputy county attorney, so, for example, if somebody was originally in four.

G

But is now in two, for example, it means that.

G

A different uh county, commissioner, would be representing them, and they would be voting.

G

For a different county commissioner, in effect and but correct me if I'm wrong, but every every person.

D

That votes, votes for all four county commissioners, as well as commissioner president, correct.

D

It's the whole as of right now so yeah yeah as it stands right now, so you have the ability.

D

Regardless of your district to vote for every county, commissioner, in each of the four districts.

D

To include a fifth vote for commissioner president right, the only thing different is, if you are.

A

Running you have to be from that district, which is what, in your maps, will do represented by if.

D

It wouldn't take away someone's ability to vote for a county commissioner in a respective.

D

District, it would just change their respective district and associated county. Commissioner. I.

E

I look at it a little bit differently because, depending on who decides to run, we all could be.

E

Voting for different people than we have. I mean that that that's something that can change that.

E

We have no control over, but what concerns me is that when you travel that far and you cut.

E

Across that many different communities, I think it would be very difficult for one commissioner.

E

Who represents all of that to meet the needs of lexington park of hollywood of oakville.

E

But maybe the public doesn't see it that way and it's not an issue. I'm.

E

Looking at a representative, no matter who it is a representative's ability to address the needs.

E

Of of the constituents in that district they're having to do two things they're having to look out.

E

For the county needs, and also for the needs of the constituents in their district.

E

So that's what makes me feel a little concerned that that's such a huge.

E

Grouping that I I wonder how how a representative could really address the needs.

E

Of all the different constituents in that in that grouping like so but currently.

D

So district three, you gotta, take into consider seventh district, where I grew up down an.

D

Avenue in bushwood, but then you've got country, lakes and mechanics. That's I mean in terms of.

D

You know whatever, whatever you'd like to compare with respect to differences in.

D

Communities and geographic locations, that's as broad as a disparity as what we're representing.

D

In the elongated four, I would say, but some things can't be helped. You know it's three probably has.

B

To be the way it is, but for, if you're trying to keep that, you know more community-centric.

B

Thing going that we're kind of messing that up and we're sacrificing that here, where we don't.

B

Have to I would I mean I, I don't think you, I think, you're arguing it's not ideal, that.

B

District three is so large and carries such a big space. So I I guess what I would say well.

B

Is it a bad? Let's not do it to four. Is it a bad thing for a county commissioner to make to take.

D

Multiple counties and neighborhoods and people into consideration when they go about their.

D

Duties, I think they do that anyway right, but it's it's more from the standpoint of you know, is.

B

Is this person who's represented who's from my district? Does he represent.

B

With my my problems, you know that that's the person, I would call first.

B

I wouldn't I wouldn't call if I was in district one. I wouldn't call someone in district three.

B

I can, but I would gravitate toward the district one represent. You know, commissioner,.

G

And so we for more broad election impacts. um I think we're going to try and get the.

G

Election board here next week to answer any more specific questions that you may have.

D

So they were here last week and the answer was you get an updated voter id.

D

Or voter registration card in the mail well, they also said that they are the ones that decide.

A

Who changes where they go about? Not us, we just do maps yeah and the commissioner districts won't.

B

Affect that right, this really is for, like you know, the voting pool right so is the question here.

F

The difference between people that live in like say, oakville and that section between.

F

Like say down to hollywood, um it goes down to four. Is it the difference in that district's.

F

Needs or concerns that we feel like we need to keep that with a specific commissioner like right.

F

Now, oakville down to hollywood, if that stayed in two: yes, they have the same um commissioner, but.

F

Does it, I guess the question I'm asking is: if you make that contiguous to go over, was that.

F

Three notch road, or whatever, are those people in oakville so much different in their community.

F

That being being kind of lumped together with hollywood or uh or california is outside, I mean.

F

It would be outside of what they would like. I don't think so. That's what I'm saying I mean it.

F

Doesn't I mean it looks on this map? It looks like it's a big difference, but you know I personally.

F

I drive that road I'll drive that road. When I go home, it's not very. It's not that many miles.

D

And I'll say like I completely understand what you're saying, but what I would want this board.

D

To stay as far away from as possible to think that we are grouping people by anything else. But what.

D

But where they live their once needs and desires, kind of leads to again in no way shape or form do.

D

I think this is what's being I'm thinking about when we meet with the public. I don't want this.

D

To be taken into consideration, different demographics or cultures or areas, or you know,.

D

Hollywood understand, you know you probably got a little bit more land watermen things like that.

D

But to take communities into account and try to draw lines around it, I think, is a very scary thing.

D

And that's not the intention at all what I understand what you're saying is that county.

D

Commissioner has to look over that community and to have you know that disparity in not only.

D

Geographic length, but just the types of say, properties, property, values, land, trades, jobs.

D

Averaging income, you know across that spectrum, um I understand that's what you're saying I just.

D

I would, I think we have the conversation. Do we want to draw lines by community types.

D

I suspect these gentlemen to the left would would tell us to err on the side of caution.

B

I don't, I don't think the community types is what I was trying to say. If that's what.

B

You got from that, it's more like, if you can think of it, like a like leonard town,.

B

It sort of radiates out right you're, you don't go west of london, all people only from lanarktail.

B

And go west right, it sort of radiates out. So I mean hollywood was already cut in half.

B

You know it's, we we've, it's been, we've been living with that for 10 years. So that's that's a done.

B

Deal right, but I just I guess it's more reluctance to do that again um and just yeah. It is sort of.

B

Like the wood, I mean I had reservations about moving district 3 into the oakville area, because.

B

You know people kind of gravitate around schools, you know that's sort of who you see your neighbors.

B

And it's just sort of when you keep stressing it out you'll get to the point where you're you know.

B

The two people don't will never see each other right. I mean I know. District three is big, but.

B

You know, there's there's a chance. You'll see your accounting commissioner, in your district.

B

In your community, if that community is more compact, I I guess I am I'm worried about the.

B

Lack of compactness, you know at the at the expense of evening the population yeah, and I.

D

And I was, I was simply speaking to perception, not okay. No, I I get what you're saying 100.

A

Any other discussions, questions.

A

Everyone's quiet, okay, so you're gonna, have when you think you'll have all these versions online.

A

Up to date, tomorrow morning, tomorrow morning, okay, all right! So just before we stop here, I'm just.

B

Still trying to so I mean obviously next meeting is the last one we have so coming into the.

B

Meeting, where do we expect to be? Do we think we have? I mean, I know we're. Gonna have five maps.

B

um They're not gonna, be the same sure. So, what's the next step I mean I I think if we go into.

B

The monday meeting trying to figure out what the next step is, we're going to run out time.

B

We either have to I mean: are we going to vote on the maps right away and then pick the top.

B

I mean: are we going to pick one and try to iterate on it to get one we're happier with.

B

I mean if I could go back three weeks. Maybe I would have wished. We picked a map three weeks ago.

B

And we would have gone we'd be on rev three of it right now, and maybe one of us isn't.

B

Happy but three of us can can live with it. I'm worried we're gonna go into monday and we're.

B

Gonna, be it's gonna feel like that's so far away when we start the meeting, I don't know how we.

B

Get it done unless we're we're trying to narrow it down to one kind of trying to figure between.

F

The consensus of the five of us, which, which map that we can come to a consensus on, but then with.

F

That that's not the that's, not necessarily the final map. That's going to you know we can still.

F

Make tweaks to it right, yeah, let's see what matt said you know yeah I mean the idea is that we.

F

Just get one a consensus and then we kind of work towards making trying to make tweaks to that map.

F

So every you know it's a win-win for trying to for everyone. Okay right is that so we're thinking.

B

Then, like at the meeting like fairly early we're going to vote on a map, I mean you're going to get.

A

The maps tomorrow you're going to start looking at them, I know, but what I'm saying is: when do we.

B

Start this iterative process, we we can't be voting on the map at the end of next meeting. That's.

B

We have to do it early and then we're going to spend the rest of the meeting.

B

Trying to tweak it so I mean I would almost say I could see value in voting on a map today.

D

And then, if eric can distribute that map in an edible format, we can make some small.

D

Changes that are reflective of you know things that we've prioritized as higher.

D

And then spend next meeting finalizing a collective draft.

D

Because what I you know, ideally, when we go- and we present this I'd like for us all to feel like.

D

We had some say on whatever we we put in front of the public and it's in some way shape or.

D

Form and reflect until eric gets it on there. I don't think we can make that decision. I guess.

B

So I guess maybe if we just come in with a mindset, if we're gonna vote early, it's almost like what.

B

You're saying is, at the end of this meeting, we vote on a map next meeting we're gonna vote on.

B

The map, because we've had time to do our homework but we're gonna, come in vote on a map and then.

B

Iterate from there and we're just uh and then we're going to vote by.

D

Whoever, whichever map gets the most hands gets I'd, say use your criteria, do a score in each one.

A

Oh, you only build up a score, I'm good at doing scores data. So how about I put together? Maybe.

A

A scoring you know, and uh we haven't, we can't. We can't wait the criteria because we haven't decided.

D

On no, I mean, but we are doing the ten percent so but I'll try to figure something. I don't have.

A

It right now, because I mean are we: are we against just doing a just a yeah up down, vote on each map.

F

And figure out who gets it or you know I don't you know and you're not allowed to vote for your own.

A

True, you are that pretty much gives everybody at least one I mean, I think everybody has put effort.

D

And intentionality into their own respective maps, but at the other day we got to pick one so.

D

Ideally, we have a clear and objective method of choosing what that final one looks like so.

D

If it's we'll collectively vote on one and maybe establish just like you know, when I did chestnut.

A

Hill chestnut ridge, the majority of people were already in district one, so I grabbed the entire.

A

Side over and two and put it in one where I think paul. I think you who someone else did.

A

There's commonality same thing when I did similar to what you did.

A

It's very similar what I did and you did all right yeah. I agree. Ours are fairly close.

D

uh Paul and pats are very close and I think lance right and you have middle of the two extremes and.

D

Then right, like you, have right here, you have district four grabbing, that one little area.

A

That I'm pointing to, I don't, have a mouse, but I do the same thing with two. So it's similar.

A

Well, there's definitely coming out, I guess um I'm, I guess we might need methodology.

F

But I mean it seems like the the biggest like issue with your map. Apparently is.

F

Four right, four going all the way up that right side. That is what it seems to because it.

F

To me one could say: that's more contiguous, because four was kind of shaped kind of odd anyway,.

F

And then somebody can also look at it and say: well, it's not contiguous in comparison to three.

F

And what was two right? You know when you're going east or kind of like whatever east-west of.

F

The county, or whatever I mean we were discussing you, know the differences of people in a district.

A

I mean look at one great mills and point lookout: yeah, that's quite different in people and you know.

A

So it's I think it's common with all the different uh districts. You know so so I mean I, you know as a.

F

Consensus that we'll be able to look at these maps tomorrow and between now and next monday,.

F

Come in with enough background to basically start to say to try to narrow this down to one right.

A

We're gonna gravitate somewhere so yeah gravitate towards a map and then spend some time discussing.

F

Like we have been today over which map we've chosen and saying trying to like figure out, okay.

F

This is what I don't like about the map right right, you're, trying to come to it.

A

You may have an input that hey I like it, but could you do? Could we agree to.

A

This yeah same thing with paul paul's, going to have opinions too, and so with pat and matt. So.

A

You might be able to come to a consensus and I mean that's: that's the idea right, correct.

F

So I I would agree with trying to vote earlier in that meeting.

F

To maybe monday, if we can, it gives us some time we have to do it monday to get on our schedule. Yeah.

A

Okay, all right, so I look forward to seeing the maps online eric and any other questions comments.

A

Do I hear a motion to adjourn the meeting.

E

So moved, do I hear a second second, all those in favor say aye aye meeting's over.