St. Mary's County, MD Solar Task Force for St. Mary's County, 10 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: 2/10/21 Solar Task Force

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A

Good afternoon, everyone today is february 10 2021. This is the meeting of the solar task force.

A

um I'd like to call the meeting to order and.

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Take the role my name is michael kane, and we have with us today: bonnie kellenberger.

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She's present she's present via webex jeffrey shaw, present brian thomas.

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President mike thompson, president, okay, that's everyone on the task force is here.

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um And before we begin today, we still need to approve the minutes. Did everyone get a copy of the.

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Minutes and has been able to review them. Yes, yes, I make a motion to approve the minutes, as is second.

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All those in favor aye, aye opposed the minutes are uh passed and so we're ready to get.

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To get on with our business here today um a couple things before we begin, um we have.

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We we just received uh the uh a a report from the uh uh the cons uh nature, conservancy, that we asked.

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To be done, that's been delivered as a in terms of a draft, and I want to ask all the committee.

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Members among the work you've been doing. Thank you, um but to look at that draft and, and certainly if.

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You have any uh concerns or, or anything you want done- please please feel free to provide that.

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To them to the consultants, okay, so everyone should have a copy of that, um and uh with that.

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I wanted to be sure we did that we have via webex as well les napp, who has been helping us.

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At every step of the way and welcome les I'm glad you're with us again here today um with that, I.

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Wanted to go to the old business and ask harry to give us an update for those of you. You recall we.

A

Discussed the idea of a moratorium on utility scale projects, at least until we finished up.

A

Providing suggestions to the commissioners who would then uh get a chance to act on those.

A

Suggestions when we finish this report, where our expectation is in uh may or june of this year, so.

A

uh With that harry, could you uh could you fill us in on uh uh the status of the the moratorium that.

A

We recommended yes, sir, so the commissioners of st mary's county approved the request for public.

B

Hearing on february 2nd, it's was advertised. In the february 5th local newspaper it'll run the.

B

Ad will run again this friday, the 12th and the public hearing is scheduled for 9 30 a.m.

B

On february, 23rd uh public comment will close on march 2nd and the commissioners should make.

B

Their final decision on march 9th and the um draft ordinance um requests one year. So in essence, we.

B

That that gives till march 9th of 2022 to have all the regulations in place. One commissioner.

B

Expressed his um hope, it would all be done sooner than that, and it should be.

A

That would be fine. Yes, yes, so that's good news for us! I'm glad that that's going to move forward.

A

And, of course, we want to get this done as quickly as possible, and I know I thank everyone for all.

A

Their trying to get this moving along I'll turn it over to less in just a minute prior to that. I just.

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Point out less has provided us with our finalized uh principles that we really.

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Passed each one of these, everyone uh has a copy of these. uh The final draft of 210.

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And I think that reflects all the changes that we made prior to uh in the previous meetings. And so I.

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Think the principles are finished. We voted on them, but I want you to simply have them for your review.

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Obviously, if there's a concern you have with any of this language, please feel free to bring it up.

A

Why don't you take a second and look at that to be sure that that looks right to you all.

A

They are the principles. I think they look. Okay by me. uh Bonnie. Do they look okay by you.

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Excellent, thank you bonnie, uh and anyone else do they uh mike is brian good, we're good, okay,.

A

So we did pass these previously, so I think the recommendations will be less put into the.

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Into the final report, and with that I think I'm I would like to move on to the recommendations.

A

And get into the business of the report and, let me just say we're making you know we're.

A

Making good progress here- um and I think, we're going to make some more good progress here today.

A

So with that I'll bring us to um the recommendations and the first order.

A

Of business is on residential uh solar and uh we've had a long discussion about uh setbacks.

A

And I want to thank uh mike thompson for bringing it to our uh to the uh to the task force. Helping.

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Us along as well as harry, helping us along, and we had a good session last week last month. Excuse me.

A

On this- and I think we have the language now uh of finalized that will, I think, provide for.

A

Somewhat relaxed setback rules that will allow low or middle income uh households who have a smaller.

A

Roof to be able to enjoy the benefits of solar and get uh and make it more cost effective. So.

A

With that um harry, I I know, or we have some language, could you uh read out the language harry.

A

That you've proposed, based on the recommendations last week uh last.

A

Month, excuse me at the solar task force and um I think, reviewed by mike thompson.

B

Yes, sir, in fact I can bring it up onto screen.

A

Be helpful because I don't know if we have it directly in in here. No, it was not in your package.

A

In my package so yeah, I think that will be uh helpful. It's now on the screen. Okay, so the.

B

Motion on um that may be made is that the one and two family dwelling portion of the st mary's.

B

County building code be amended as follows: international residential code 2018 edition.

B

Section 324.6, roof access and pathways shall read, roof axis pathways and setback requirements shall.

B

Be provided in accordance with sections r, 324.2 and r324.6.2 access and minimum spacing shall be.

B

Required to provide emergency access to the roof, to provide pathways to specific areas of the roof.

B

Provide for smoke ventilation, opportunity areas and to provide emergency egress from the roof.

B

Of course, the exceptions are, there are no roof access and pathway requirements for.

B

Detached non-habitable structures, including, but not not limited, to detached garages.

B

Parking shade structures, carports, solar, trusses, trellises and similar structures.

B

Shall not be required to provide roof access, and these requirements shall not apply to roofs.

B

With slopes of two units vertical in 12 units, horizontal or less, in other words, a very flat roof.

B

Section r 324.6.1 pathway shall read no fewer than two pathways front or back from lowest roof edge.

B

To ridge and not less than 36 inches wide shall be provided on all buildings pathways.

B

Shall be over areas capable of supporting fire fighters accessing the roof pathways.

B

Shall be located in areas with minimal obstructions such as vent pipes, conduit.

B

Or mechanical equipment and section 324.6.2 setback at ridge shall read not less than 36 inch.

B

Clear setback is required on one side of a horizontal ridge, so in essence, one side of.

B

The house, the south facing side, could be entirely covered in solar panels because it's the.

B

Opposite side that can easily provide the two 36 inch pathways to the ridge and the full 36.

B

Along the ridge and just to clarify that's what we heard last month, that that would be perfectly.

A

Acceptable to the uh the fire department- and so this is yeah- we heard we heard from the.

B

St mary's county fire board representative, as well as the office of state fire, marshal.

B

Representative and they both concurred with this proposal. Does anyone have a question on this.

A

Okay, I moved to insert this language into the uh final report as.

A

As uh read by uh mr harry knight, and as indicated in the uh uh in the.

A

In the uh sections, the international residential code, as written that we see here.

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Second, all those in favor aye it passes unanimously we're going to include that.

A

Thank you, everyone who worked on that um very much appreciate it, so that's the uh that you really I.

A

Think less and correct me: if I'm wrong, that's uh we've concluded really the the residential section.

A

uh Bonnie, I think we have everything. uh um Maybe uh I'm sorry, let's see number six excuse me.

A

Under this, the task force recommends that the commissioners consider whether any county.

A

Assistance such as future property tax credit is warranted to further the adoption of residential.

A

Accessory solar in the county, I believe that was the language we discussed last week, not sure.

A

If we approved that yeah I was um chairman, I was able to offer the example of where the county had.

B

Done a sprinkler tax credit before, and so I think that you could recommend a a tax credit for solar.

A

And so that's what we say in here right, such as.

A

You're saying, in addition uh explicitly so, this is such as a future property tax credit.

A

uh You're saying uh uh something additional to that: uh oh no! No! I'm not meeting.

B

Well, it's number six under um residential right. The task force recommends commissioners. Consider.

B

Whether any accounting assistance such as future property tax, credit um yeah, no, no, I think that.

B

Perfectly covers what you agreed to last month: okay, any any other suggestions here.

A

On that I I do have one recommendation, mr chairman, please go ahead. Les the task force.

C

The task force previously passed recommendation seven.

C

Which was meant to deal with, specifically with taxation changes and similar to what you did.

C

In in the commercial industrial institutional section, you said, there's no need for additional.

C

Changes because the comptroller and stat are moving to basically uh include uh remove the.

C

Value of installed residential solar systems from property tax assessment, thereby creating.

C

An incentive at the state level for them previously, they were viewed as a value added.

C

Installation and thus would increase your property tax once it reached that assessment. I would say.

C

Just to make a note here, I would add in initially accept this reference and recommendation six comma.

C

The task force does not fund any additional etc. Just to clarify that you are referencing.

C

uh Consideration of a property tax credit than number six. uh That seems like a friendly amendment.

A

To what we've already discussed earlier so- and I think, um does everyone see that in number seven.

A

um And so the suggestion by les is just to reference number seven to illustrate that.

A

uh That we are simply trying to be consistent with the uh uh maryland uh uh at the state level.

A

What they, uh I believe have already done is that correct, or in 10, less yes,.

A

Okay- and so I think without objection, then I would.

A

I would suggest that number six be uh be entered into the final draft. Any comments on that.

A

As amended by last, would you make that amendment please.

D

So I'm sorry what what is the amendment I I kind of got lost, so I see what we're saying for numbers.

D

The task force recommends that the commission consider whether any county assistance that line.

D

And so then we're changing so we're going to leave six, as is.

D

And then, unless you're suggesting we make a change to number seven.

C

Yes, just to say right at the beginning of the recommendation for number seven.

C

Except as referenced in recommendation six comma, the task does not find in the additional time.

C

Saving changes or needed got it yep got. It sounds beautiful, no objection. Okay! Thank you. uh Thank you.

A

Bonnie for trying to clarifying that for all of us, okay, I think that's clear uh le um less and so.

A

uh Then without objection I uh I think we should put that into the final. uh The final report.

A

Okay, you need a motion. Yeah, okay, can I move to uh include uh both six and seven with the amendment.

A

Suggested by less into the final uh report, second, nice. Second, all those in favor. I opposed.

A

Okay, there you go that passes, and that concludes really last right. The uh um our section on.

A

Really uh uh excuse me uh residential, and I think we've we've concluded that section now.

A

And you have uh all the recommended changes for that section. So we've gone through all that um and.

A

The next section that we discussed previously was commercial, industrial and institutional. uh There.

A

Was really no changes to that that we recommended we've gone through? All of that, and that brings.

A

Us really to community solar uh and I'll. Let you I think, we've I don't know if we agreed on.

A

This but the definition of community solar we've discussed before, if you just want to touch on that.

A

So that everyone's familiar and why you just cited it as you did last, could you uh do that? Please.

C

Certainly so uh yeah, yes, my understanding is last meeting. The task force did adopt.

C

This definition of community so basically simply referencing what is in state law.

C

For community solar energy generating systems uh there are, there is some legislation in and.

C

And we expect to see legislation uh in the next several years as well. That may not slightly.

C

Modify or expand the definition of community solar, I think just referencing that, under the.

C

State makes the most sense. uh Basically, it has to be a net metering that meets the community solar.

C

Definition that is generally accepted, uh where you have an aggregator that brings together.

C

Different solar panels and sells to a particular group of people uh pretty much directly, so this is.

C

Not going out as a general commercial sale on the grid, this is targeted to a specific.

C

User set that has to be uh within the same uh grid area as as the solar panels, and anybody.

C

Well, almost anybody can be an aggregator from individuals to a business entity to.

C

A local government or a non-profit, oh okay and again, this is all under two megawatts.

A

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. That is the cap. Currently, it is possible in the future that could be updated.

C

That's correct and that's why we we referenced the maryland code here so that it would change.

B

And is that best described as maximum two megawatts or less than two maximum maximum.

A

Maximum, so with that, I think I'll just remind the committee. uh Excuse me the task force we.

A

Got to this point and there was uh we needed additional guidance. I think.

A

On a couple of the things that we're going to discuss here,.

A

For example, zoning on where this should be allowed some considerations there, some considerations on.

A

Any special exceptions or conditional use that we need to con consider and then finally, setback.

A

Recon requirements and screening requirements, so um with that I'll hand it over to, I think.

A

uh Harry you were going to say a few words about this, and les do you want to? Is there.

A

Anything you want to add before we give that to uh harry to go over some of these suggestions.

C

The only thing I will briefly mention is that currently.

C

The public service commission is undertaking a rulemaking process that may alter uh how.

C

A utility scale solar system has to go through the local zoning process.

C

Where you may you, basically, they would have to have a meeting with the local government.

C

At some point in time, that is to be determined and that there will be some time period for the.

C

Local government to review the proposed project and then submit to the psc uh whether or not they.

C

Believe it is consistent with the local zoning and why? uh But they would not what a solar developer.

C

Would not have to do is go through necessarily and apply for a special exception or conditional use.

C

And go through the normal process that other projects would have to go through.

C

I'm just raising that at the moment. So as you consider community solar, which is fully.

C

Subject to local zoning, so you can certainly require conditional usage, permitted usage or.

C

A special exception process would apply to a community solar, but I do raise that just.

C

As I think, there's a lot of similarities between how you want to treat community solar as well as.

C

The larger utility scale projects and just again to clarify.

A

um Less utility scale skull solar as we're defining, is anything above two megawatts.

A

um And so uh community excuse me, utility scale is above two megawatts and community is below.

A

Two megawatts or up to that threshold. So um thanks for that clarification and and recommending that.

A

I'll turn it over now to you, harry to uh harry knight, to go through some of these things for.

A

Us and give us additional perspectives that I think we really would benefit by.

B

Okay. Thank you, sir. This um meeting today um I felt was.

B

Moving into the discussion more thoroughly of the zoning regulations and yes, we are on the.

B

Community portion we've talked about zoning regulations pertaining to accessory and.

B

So the purpose of joining regulations is especially to look out for the general welfare and.

B

Protecting our unique character as a rural county, so we um arrange those regulations.

B

With use classifications and standards and then apply setbacks, landscaping and buffer yards.

B

So, looking at our current zoning order and so that we're not trying to reinvent the wheel.

B

And how can we fit this community solar into our current zoning ordinance? I wanted to look at some.

B

Comparable uses, so extractive industry is only comparable from the perspective that it uses up.

B

A lot of rural land and so food for thought. We allow up to five acres of extractive industry.

B

Without a conditional use, that's that's permitted by right. You can.

B

Strip mine up to five acres as a permitted use, it is subject to certain standards um more than.

B

Five acres requires a conditional use, which means now you need to go to a public hearing.

B

And invite all the neighbors of the property to come. Then we have um transportation, communication.

B

And utility use classifications which, when the utility scale project that prompted the.

B

Creation of your task force came: we had no better ca classification to put it under.

B

Than utility major, which is a conditional use notice, utility minor, is a permitted use.

B

So extractive industry is considered a high intensity use and I think that makes sense. There's.

B

Bulldozers, backhoes dump trucks, a lot of noise dust, a lot of activity. Utility major is also.

B

Considered a high use, however, I personally have to question why a water reservoir would be considered.

B

A high use, it seems like a rather benign body of water. You know so this utility major.

B

Just is a an amalgamation of large utility type uses and they've all been lumped together as high.

B

Now, utility miner you see is listed as a low and community solar is an entirely different.

B

Use than any of those named um the one thing that caught my eye when I was going over this again, is.

B

That we do have this um mention of something small brownfield, other categories, small and.

B

um Can less maybe he's the best expert on this? Is this just another flavor of.

B

Community solar- they were talking about here, this so-called small maximum 500 kilowatt.

A

That's ah unless, if you can't answer it, I can oh great. Thank you.

E

Go ahead, okay, um thinking back to last month when frannie was here and she walked us through.

E

When they divided out the community solar, there was the different, distinct buckets that are.

E

Allowed to be developed under community solar that moniker, you have their small brown field.

E

That is one category under community solar. They had the uh call it the regular and then.

E

They had the low to moderate income bucket as well, so each category got an area of allotment.

E

Of a certain amount of megawatts that are allowed to be developed.

E

Underneath of the category, so when you have the ultimate title of community solar underneath.

E

Where the other different categories, all roll up into community solar, so.

E

We just got to be careful if we're going to start breaking things out into uh these other distinct.

E

Buckets I I'm not suggesting the need to break it out, but I'm obviously I had a need to understand.

B

What we were talking about here does that help. It certainly does answer. So it is still a um a flavor.

B

Of community solar, it is, and it's one of the areas that the state within policy wanted to drive.

E

Development into that's why they set apart 30 percent of the allotment of the megawatts.

E

Within the state that they want to drive that this category to be developed very good, so.

B

So this just basically goes over again. Utility scale is more than 2 megawatt and.

B

I raised the question: um well, the expectation is that it would have a conditional use.

B

Though less points out, the state is possibly going to change the law that would preempt our.

B

Ability to have it go to conditional use and and currently even if we take it to conditional use.

B

The psc can say who cares it's approved so so, if I may jump in here so at least for community.

A

Solar and since it's under two megawatts, um I I would to be honest, um I I you know I would be.

A

Of the view, let's encourage this as much as possible and uh you sort of noted even with.

A

Extractive industries, five- it was five acres right, so we're talking somewhere between right.

A

10 and and and 18 acres, maybe or 10 and 20 acres for the maximum uh size of a community solar.

A

Is that fair, if it took up to two megawatts, along with storm water and other requirements necessary.

E

You could be in that neighborhood so uh and my sense is it's not uh it's not as invasive so.

A

To speak, or as as extractive industries, so I would be comfortable with uh just.

A

You know allowing community solar without necessarily conditional use um considerations that.

A

Doesn't mean that you know we can't we can still. You know we may still have to talk about other.

A

Aspects of this, but I feel comfortable with that les, do you have any thoughts on that.

C

I I think I I would broadly agree that, as you consider community solar.

C

You would want to definitely consider to make it as easy as possible. You've got two things.

C

To consider here, where you're allowing community solar to go and how what what steps you have to go.

C

Through such as applying for a conditional use uh to do it so that's recommendations, two and three.

C

Recommendation, two really is: what zones do you want to allow it in recommendation.

C

Three would be within those zones. What do you want to make? The developer have to go through.

B

And and there are times that um it would be a conditional use in some zones and a permitted.

B

Use in other zones consistent with the existing zoning ordinances you're suggesting here correct.

A

Correct depend, depending on the other uses um that you would think it's not.

B

That compatible with I wasn't um focusing on the zone so much at this point.

B

Because of waiting for the solar sighting maps to help us.

B

Define those zones, but I do have a page to to talk about the zones as well and then, of course, the.

B

You know I've already expressed my opinion that I think solar is low intensity and then.

B

Jeff has helped me understand small, so moving on here's an example of an accessory use principle.

B

Accessory to a principal use on the property, this is an existing site in the st mary's county.

B

Industrial park, these commercial buildings, they actually have a soccer field between.

B

Their buildings and they installed this solar, so this is clearly what we were talking about.

B

As accessory, this is another example of accessory use. This is um the carver elementary school.

B

In lexington park they have a good quantity of rooftop um one and a half acres of solar panels.

B

And um they're very proud of it, in fact their school mascot is um a turtle. I think I was told.

B

Named watt or something like watson, what so um just another example of accessory, so then we.

B

Grow in size right, and so this is the um borrowed from the community um solar presentation. We had.

B

And this one, um as the chairman was saying, if they were describing, that five acres would give them.

B

About one megawatt um 10 acres to 20, depending on the configuration, is what they might need.

B

To reach that maximum 2 megawatt size, so this one was 1.27 megawatts on seven acres. They.

B

Appear to have a lot of natural buffering right. This one is two megawatts.

B

It um sorry I don't have the acreage, but it's probably not that relevant. The um they have looks.

B

Like natural buffering along the highway, of course, natural buffering in these locations and then.

B

Probably pretty much natural buffering around the existing um neighboring houses hard to.

B

Hard to discern whether or not they were actually required to plant additional buffering.

B

And then, of course, what we're not really talking about now, but just to show the other end of the.

B

Spectrum, so this is the utility scale that was proposed for lexington park. It was um an 84-acre.

B

Array that would have produced 20 megawatts and it was going to be surrounded by a lot of natural.

B

Wooded areas- and we were going to require buffering here along the highway.

B

All right so so getting back to you know how to classify things so.

B

I call this a proposed um solar scenario. Our draft report from the chesapeake conservancy is really.

B

Pushing the use of the built environment, they give the example that if we were to.

B

Put um every parking lot over an acre in size with a solar canopy over it. We could achieve our goal.

B

And this example is walmart. Their parking lot here is a little over well just the shaded portion is.

B

A hair over six acres, and um would this be accessory or would this be community? It is.

B

Serving the principal use walmart and then would be allowed to sell any excess up, so this would.

B

Be accessory, wouldn't it depends. It depends what the yes, the agreement. The agreement was between.

A

Walmart and a developer and the developer right or it could be, of course, walmart that develops it and.

A

Then it's commercial and they consume it. If they, if they consume most of it, they don't, they can.

E

Net meter up to two megawatts yeah, and this is not likely to produce two megawatts based on the size.

B

No right right so this this could be accessory, it could be yeah and- and that would encourage.

B

It all the more if you know, because just to go back a moment, because if we create.

B

Buffer yard and standards it would be difficult to provide the buffer yards here.

A

Correct correct all, but on brownfield environments it may not be right as uh as important, whereas.

A

When you get to a res residential area, it could well be very important right, because people are.

B

Already used to the semi-urban environment, um and now they would enjoy shaded parking spaces.

B

So um this one would be community solar likely right because it's it's going to.

B

Be less than 2 megawatts, it's only 9.31 acres. This is our old creosote plant in hollywood. So.

B

Would definitely be a preferred place to develop solar per the chesapeake conservancy report.

B

Probably would only produce one megawatt and then I go through just some examples of what. If people.

B

Out in the rpd wanted to make use of their acreage, and um but all of these would be community solar.

B

Would you explain these are all, would you explain some of these pictures for certainly my purpose.

B

Yeah well a task force, so you know here, here's a a property. I refer to it as a farmstead. It's 30.

B

Acres, they have a large field, remote from their own house, a j um close to other people's houses.

B

And you know they could theoretically put four and a half acres of solar panels. There.

B

um Might produce close to one megawatt based on the community solar presentation we heard and.

B

And but this would likely be community solar and it could, it could be, and then, in that case, right.

A

I mean a little different. You can see on the on the top part of the acreage on the screen.

A

And then, on the right side, we have residential homes, it looks what appears to be right and.

A

Yeah, in that case right, I would think right that, and this is me speaking, we would want a.

A

Buffer there, so that, uh if it was built that uh those homeowners would not have to necessarily.

A

uh You know it'd be right up to their property line, so to speak, or that there'd be some suitable.

A

Buffer, you could see on the left side, there already is existing buffer right and so in.

A

Some ways uh you know this is a great example of a possibility of community solar of what we might.

A

Want to consider so with that, I think: can we hear from some of the other task force members to think.

A

About what their views are on this and thinking about about this, thank you for this example. By.

A

The way very, very good example harry you know, I would say on this example, you you have to assume.

F

That the acreage on the left could be developed since a property owner of the solar, I'm not sure.

F

Whether they own that or not, um this is the this. Is the house down here that owns this field up.

B

Here the yellow lines are property lines, so there had to be some consideration for buffer in case.

F

Some additional development took part in in that area right. I I agree too. I believe any kind of.

G

Any kind of utility that's going to be built with these solar panels should have some sort of buffer.

G

Around them just to keep the neatness looking of of everything and not just be an eyesore.

A

In particular, excuse me in particular residential areas, not necessarily brownfield sites, either way.

A

Also um mike was just talking about about this, other piece of land could be possibly developed of.

G

Course, later on down, the road absolutely could be developed because that'll sell off and do whatever.

G

I think it's to be something always put in there. No matter what's done, it should be.

G

A certain amount of buffer always has to be around it, no matter what happens to that.

G

Around it, so something to think about also okay, so um another example. These are getting larger as.

B

They go so um this is a farmer who owns multiple parcels, so he happens to have this one big field.

B

Straddling his own property lines, and this one gets us up to 7.81 acres.

B

um In this case, he, this is all his. um I think he even owned that one, of course, he's got natural.

B

um Here and then he happens to own this one as well, so maybe this would be the most um nearby.

B

And, of course, this neighbor would be able to see across the fields, um normally cropped fields, but.

B

Here's one along this is a county road.

B

Near a church, here's the parent parcel- and so this is 16.2 acres, solar. They.

B

Still have ample farm field to farm, and so we had talked about buffering from other residences, but.

B

Here would be the question of buffering along the road and then here's another one on a county road.

B

This is the parent owner here, um of course, well buffered by his own forest.

B

But here would be the neighbor who would potentially and this one as well.

B

So speaking of setbacks um per our current zoning ordinance, setbacks are based on zone and I'm not.

B

Showing you the whole table, because I just wanted to give you the flavor of the table, but basically.

B

We always set back more from roads, and so the average county road is going to be a minor.

B

Collector or less, and so we would require a minimum 25 foot setback. So if we go with.

B

The principal structure setbacks that we already have those solar panels would have to be without.

B

Buffering in mind just set back alone, minimum 25 foot back from a minor collector or less. If the.

B

Road is larger in classification still a county road or sometimes a state highway. It becomes a.

B

Major collector and then it has to be 35 feet back and then our arterial highway is a 50 foot setback.

B

Then, along the side, neighboring property lines, it drops down to 15 and 20 in the rear.

B

Now, um what what does that excuse me? I I don't know the difference between the side and the rear.

A

Very good, so if we go back here, the front fronts the public way and then this would be a side and.

B

Then, in this particular property, because this is the front- the rear is opposite the front. So this.

B

Would be the rear way back here, so these panels landscaping aside buffer yards aside um just.

B

Setbacks alone would have to be at least 15 feet from this neighboring side property line. I think.

B

When we get into buffer yards, you'll, see there's opportunity to increase the size, and so the.

B

Setbacks, don't really need to be modified per se, so I just have a question: what happens when those.

D

Are the setbacks that are go, um sorry, go ahead, go ahead, bonnie and then and then and then mike.

D

So those are the setbacks depending on so no matter what type of like utility or or um activity.

D

That's happening, that is the setback regardless for for principal structures, right so depending on.

B

The zone, the principal structure- setback that's allowed in that zone. These are the setbacks.

B

And since we expect these to be probably most likely in the rural preservation district zone,.

B

That's what this is gotcha, so like a barn or something.

B

Yeah or a house is a principal structure. A barn is an accessory structure, so a barn would actually.

B

Be allowed to go as close as five feet to a side property line. Wow. Okay, mr thompson had a question.

A

Mr thompson yeah, so um this these setbacks are from the property lines. So if you're along 235.

F

And they've taken a half acre or whatever in front of you for stormwater management and everything.

F

You would still be required to be 25 feet from the property line that is correct, yeah, two or.

B

Three hundred feet from the road right, because the um state highways are a good example. The.

B

The obvious highway use might only be 50 feet wide, but the highway right of way.

B

Might be 100 feet wide right, okay, so the um purpose of landscaping in buffer yards is to.

B

Promote attractive development and especially um eliminate or minimize conflicts between post.

B

Potentially incompatible but otherwise permitted uses on adjoining lots and um so that you know.

B

This mentions it could be a combination of setbacks and visual buffers or barriers.

B

So once again, landscaping is based on zones and notice in the rpd we have no minimum landscaping.

B

I guess probably because in the rpd, where there's more room, people have a tendency to do a lot of.

B

Landscaping on their own, we also have a lot of forest, a lot of farm fields. So there's not a lack.

B

Of landscaping in the rpd zone, can I follow that up with a question uh mr knight, and so.

A

In the rpd district, you showed us some uh examples of that, but it's possible that.

A

uh There could be a few acres that back up to a residential property right, correct the residential.

A

Property is not zoned differently right, it's probably not probably right, and so in that case,.

A

Right, it does seem, at least of to my mind, that we would want some kind of buffering, even in.

A

A rural preservation districts, if uh if this was a larger and there was a uh a a.

A

House nearby and that's consistent, I think, with what brian was sort of suggesting as well yeah.

B

And um because the task force did talk last month about plant materials, so this is what our.

B

Current ordinance says about plant materials shall be designed for energy efficiency and.

B

Drought, tolerance, adaptability and relationship to environment, habitat value, color form and pattern.

B

Ability to provide shade soil retention, fire resistance, etc and must meet american association.

B

Nurserymen specifications for number one grade, so we don't go as far as saying native species.

B

Right, okay, so buffer yards, so the use, intensity and determination of a required buffer yard.

B

So this example that I'm showing you here is the proposed use, and so here's our two utility uses.

B

And one is low and one is high and um then depending what you're up against so now, it's not.

B

The zoning you're adjoining it's the use you're adjoining so in theory, if I had solar panels.

B

As a low intensity use community solar next to an agricultural use, I would need no buffer yard. If I.

B

Am up against a house? I need a b buffer yard.

B

A um high-intensity residential would be like an apartment building, so it's still a b buffer yard.

B

um This would be some public semi-public is like government, buildings or schools. uh It could be.

B

A church, so that's an a buffer yard and you'll see the differences in buffer yards commercial.

B

Is a industrial we don't feel like? We have to protect the industrial uses from other uses.

B

It kind of goes the other way we have to protect other uses from industrial.

B

Uses and then we get the same thing with utilities transportation we don't have to buffer yard from.

B

Ourselves and uh and then marine is like industrial use all right. So then, if we move on.

B

So here's the what the different buffer yard types are, and this is the chart talks about the types of.

B

Trees and all, but I'm going to move on because um and so the one has the option of a berm or a fence.

B

In my experience, hearing people ask for buffer yards, where they really like fences is where.

B

The use next door is going to have automobile traffic, because fences do a great job of blocking.

B

Headlights at night, um otherwise you know a fence doesn't hide the building right. The building's.

B

Always taller than the fence, but if there's going to be, I don't want those headlights streaming and.

B

Of course, the solar facility is not going to bring that um type of traffic, so when you see.

A

On this one shrubs for 10, 22 and 27, what is that? That's the quantity per 100 linear feet, so it.

A

Doesn't tell us how high or anything like that it is the um no I'm we do have that specified.

B

um And I I don't think I brought that page well, I don't think I built it in here. I may have the.

B

Page with me, but anyway now to show you the more of an illustration. So here's the type a buffer.

B

And um it's not considered big enough to protect the residents, but it is big enough to protect the.

B

Public semi-public and commercial: it's only 15 feet wide. So on that side, yard setback it would.

B

Actually fit within that side, yard setback, and this gives you um the appearance of how that.

B

Gets spread out so there's the quantity of trees and shrubs here on the side.

B

And this is them actually in the illustration for every hundred feet of length.

B

That's what you would plant okay, so then we would move on um so the residence.

B

Under this, use would be entitled to a b buffer yard and to the b buffer yard, see.

B

How that suddenly jumps up to 65. so that 15-foot setback has suddenly um almost quintupled and.

B

The quantity of planting goes up because, of course, there's more room to plant it in.

B

But sometimes the buffer is just having the space set it back away from me versus trying to.

B

Completely obscure the view and then the most intense buffer. Could I ask a question before.

E

We move on and not to get too much into the weeds but harry when you're looking at solar facilities.

E

They're not going to want to do uh your canopy trees that you're having in your examples here.

E

Yes, because the shading coefficients yes, is there a substitution in lieu of with the other plant.

E

Material uh that is certainly a possibility, and um the other um issue is that, just because they're.

B

Shown in a certain arrangement here, um the canopy trees could theoretically be planted at the far.

B

End of the um where they could not influence, I see what you're right. So if I've got a 65-foot buffer.

B

And I plant my canopies at the far this distance of the 65 feet by the time they become mature.

B

The shading, but I mean the shading- is going to cast beyond 65 feet.

B

um Depending on the trajectory of the sun, and all that, just something to consider when we're.

E

Looking at some of this that this will be an issue yeah yeah, that's a good point, very good point. Yep.

B

And then the last example type c buffer, so not as not as deep. It's only 30 feet.

B

But very intensely planted and then this is the one that requires a fence.

B

Now, with these two utility uses the only time we require the sea buffer is high intensity.

B

Utility adjacent to residential and then down here marine, if it was next to low-intensity marine.

A

But it's actually smaller distance right.

B

Correct half half the size of the previous one yeah! uh Well, a little less than half 30 versus 65.

B

And I can tell you all cellular developers that we have conversation with will want fencing.

E

Whether you require it or not, right and they're going to like that's the norm, isn't it um or.

B

The industry standard they want to, they want a security fence right, they do yeah, they want a.

B

Fence that eliminates possible pedestrian traffic and or pilfering of their valuable goods that.

B

They've installed yeah vandalism, you're right, yeah right so um the you know and to look for.

B

A fence to be a visual barrier I mean you know, would you want them to put the slats in their.

B

Chain link fence or or replace, but we haven't had so many to to get down that road. Yet, um but no.

E

Yeah I mean I haven't seen that because I'm typically talking utility scale.

E

And we're talking mile offense that gets expensive if you're putting the slats in the fencing.

B

Right so they're going to install a fence for security purposes, they will um most likely.

B

Going to be a chain-link fence, typically and um and I'm not advocating the fence again, I think.

B

Fences serve well to block headlights, I don't and, and they block pedestrian traffic. That's the only.

B

Other time I hear people advocating for fences is they allege that the business next door is going.

B

To bring a bad element and they want a fence to block the pedestrian traffic of the bad element.

B

I think when you have landscaping, even though in the winter, some of it loses.

B

Its leaves, it still provides, it breaks it up. You know the um you're looking through.

B

um All these separate things in the layers that break up the visual aspect of what's beyond it.

B

So um the other consideration is along scenic corridors. We have certain roads.

B

That are scenic corridors, and these um would have to be established along them.

B

So this names the roads and the main thing is that along a scenic corridor.

B

The removal of existing prominent tree stands: woodlands, outcroppings historic landscapes,.

B

um Shall be avoided, and so um this is really the main thing that would.

B

Have to be taken into account if they propose to put a community solar along a scenic corridor.

B

And that is that.

A

A

So again, once you uh go back so the.

A

Questions before us really are really the considerations of setbacks.

A

And then also considerations of buffers associated with it um in this case, and so uh this one.

A

uh Could you explain this uh this right table one more time right, so so, with setbacks.

B

Depending on the zone, they propose to put the community solar in. We have existing setbacks.

B

That would um be applicable to that principal use. It's a minimum 25 feet from the public road.

B

Or private right-of-way and it increases to 35 and 50, depending on the classification of the road up.

B

To arterial highways and but the side, setbacks um are actually larger in the rural zone 15 feet, but.

B

Diminishes when you get into the um residential and commercial zones of to only be 10 feet.

B

And um but again I don't think you need to focus on setbacks as much as buffer yards, because your.

B

Buffer yard may exceed your setback. I see uh-huh okay, so that that was my next question so and.

A

If that could just if we ask for reasonably sized buffer yards, it already takes, takes.

A

Into consideration than the the setback zoning because they'll, if they're larger, then that's.

A

When it, it must be and overtakes this uh this um this rule correct right right, so so the one.

B

Example of where this setback would over um rule is that, if you're, if you went with the utilities,.

B

I'm sorry, the utility use community solar, low intensity along an arterial and used our current.

B

Buffer yard table a buffer yard is not required along a right of way.

B

And so it would simply be the 50-foot setback from the state highway. Right-Of-Way.

A

Does anyone have a thought of that on on that I mean, I think.

A

And and if you could go back to one of the examples that you had, I think they were.

A

They're going to help the to help me for certain, but perhaps other task force members to sort of.

A

Visualize some of the possibilities here, I think one of the things that I want to hear is.

A

What you think about the residential setback right or what has to be done there a bit and hear the.

A

Views of the of the task force members I'd like everyone to sort of weigh in on this, as well as.

A

Anything perhaps on uh near a road assuming that the road is not a scenic road, correct.

A

So I'll just go around brian. Can I start with you, you you, you sort of expressed some opinions.

G

I am I uh I tell you I really like mr knight's, uh you know how the setbacks are on other jobs.

G

And other things we do, um I'm looking back in the you know, I'm in the building industry also.

G

And we work with setbacks and everything every day and I believe, um with these buffers and with the.

G

Setbacks that mr lane was talking about- I I really feel that there are good standard setbacks to go.

G

With so okay, absolutely thank you mike yeah yeah. uh The only comment I would have is that if you're.

F

You're, next to a residential or whatever the the residential owner can plant any tree. He wants.

F

And if it provides shade onto your solar panels, so be it that's his prerogative. So it's.

F

It's uh incumbent upon the solo developer to make sure he's set back adequately to begin right.

F

Right right, bonnie: do you have some thoughts on this that you'd like to share.

D

um I mean we we developed these. These are.

D

Over time and experience, so I don't really see a reason for us to change them. I think the only.

D

Thing we need to take into account is some of the concerns about canopy trees that were raised.

D

um And then I also I do not think that we should apply any of these standards to.

D

Potential development in the future, um I think we need to stick with this is what's happening. This.

D

Is what the current environment is, um regardless of what could be in the future? So I I want to be.

A

Sure I understood your last point um bonnie, so you you're comfortable with that. uh You didn't want.

A

To impose any additional suggestions beyond the suggestions made by mr knight in his presentation.

D

Yeah, no, how how we're going forward! um I'm referencing something brian had said about.

D

Potential future development, and I don't think that we should take that into account going.

D

Forward, okay, thank you surround you know. We've got a if we've got a farm field that they're.

D

Developing and then someday in the future there might be residential, so we should put.

D

The buffer, now I I don't think that that's the. um I don't believe that we should recommend that we.

A

They wouldn't need to plan for a buffer. In that case, that's what was your your suggestion.

B

Well, I think, yeah. If I understand bonnie she's saying we can't we shouldn't buffer now for a.

B

Potential development in the future correct: okay: we shouldn't require excite to do that.

A

Thank you, bonnie jeff. Nothing further to add that hasn't already been said. Last. Do.

A

You have any uh do you have any thoughts on this. uh I wanted to make sure that you.

A

uh Weigh in since you've been uh writing this you've seen these uh um any thoughts.

C

So so I think mr knight's uh proposals are very reasonable, uh with the setbacks uh and the chart.

C

Showing what you have, I think those are very reasonable. I would definitely also recommend.

C

On the landscaping, the way it is broken down and exists in the current zoning ordinance, it would.

C

Make sense, I think, to apply that not reinvent the wheel on definitely take into account the canopy.

C

Tree issue: if you get things that are too big, you will run into problems and definitely having.

C

Making sure that for the scenic corridors in the county, the uh that are noted on the.

C

One slide that those get the protections uh that also is reasonable, and these approaches.

C

I think mirror a lot of what some of the other counties have done uh with the specificity, so.

C

The only I think, a lot of this could apply very readily to utility scale without change.

C

I think the one question you might want to consider is for a community scale, solar scale.

C

Are these reasonable? Do you want to make them a little easier in certain areas? Do you want to make.

C

Any distinction where a project maybe is targeting low income or otherwise disadvantaged communities.

C

That that would be one thing as a food for thorn item. There are very good points uh that you made.

A

Less, and especially on the low income and middle income issues, um we've still really are talking.

A

About community so we're less than 2 megawatts here, the only I guess my only two concerns I.

A

Want to thank people for what they brought up. I do. The canopy issue is something obviously that.

A

I think for for developing solar there nee there may need to be some um small modification on that.

A

uh In terms of buffers harry, um you know that is a concern and would be a concern to developers if.

A

They had to if there had to be a canopy, and I think in in some sense what most of us, when we.

A

Think about this uh look at is really having some kind of shrubs or something that blocks the view.

A

And that could be sufficient for at least resident residential areas. I think, from my point of view,.

A

The only concern I have with community solar is that residential residencies do have are.

A

Are sufficiently protected and under the low use it was, uh it still would be the buffer under that.

A

Circumstance you illustrated one yeah, that was, that was the buffer yard table, and that was.

A

With residential areas it could be up to 65 feet. Is that correct yeah? I can go back to that table.

B

um What I'm showing you right here, um because you had a question about this, what size things were.

B

So where it was a shrub, that's a five gallon shrub. um Let me increase the size of this. If I can.

B

Or no oops, no such luck, um but so a shrub is a five gallon.

B

The um coniferous trees are five feet. Ornamental trees are um eight feet. I think that says.

B

Understories are six and canopy trees are ten foot, so it's a one and a half to two inch caliper ten.

B

Foot tree, it will eventually it's supposed to be a species that will grow into a canopy tree.

F

Right, I just my concern about canopy trees being required. Is that.

F

In the winter time, depending on your orientation, everything, but the the sun's up.

F

Approximately 30 degrees, so the shaded area is going to be approximately twice the height of the.

F

The ultimate height of the tree, so you can get into that pretty easily by requiring canopy trees.

F

um Depending on the side so forth, I don't maybe there's some leeway here, but but.

F

On the south side, where the sun's coming in that's that could very easily be a problem.

B

Yeah, so it sounds like we're starting to build a consensus that canopy trees should be omitted from.

B

The buffer, that's correct, that's correct, I think that's what we're we're suggesting here, harry.

B

And I'm just scanning, through this real quick to see um what other things might come into play.

B

And then I'll be back at that buffer yard yeah. So this is the buffer yards.

E

So, and with the potential omission, I think we could probably insert something else in there as.

E

Well, um you know, is it a two for one or a three for one with the with the bucketed plants, but.

G

And, like mr knight said, you know, these are just samples. This isn't the realistic.

G

What they're going to put up around these you know.

B

All right, I'm going to stop sharing this and go back to that other table.

B

So um I think this was the best one to show.

B

So here's the residential and um and that would be uh the low intensity, so that would really.

A

Be substituting in there community solar at this point? um Oh sorry to interrupt, but.

A

That's okay, and I just saw you know just back and then so b is the 65 right. It's 65 foot.

A

Buffer is that correct right, but but maybe that's not appropriate for community solar right. I think.

A

So I think people should weigh in on that, uh but that so elsewhere the buffers are much smaller.

A

With industrial commercial, if the, if you had a uh a community solar next to commercial or industrial.

A

There's no real issues there, but if it's next to a residential there needs to be. According to this.

A

As we're stating up to, uh if it's b right, it's 65, is that correct or is it right and actually I just.

B

Want to hold you on that one thing you just said so if it was in um commercial or or semi-public.

B

Is the task force comfortable with this a buffer adjacent to those uses.

A

15 foot with uh striking the canopy trees potentially but having uh some other kind of.

A

uh Buffer uh decisions, you just replace the canopy with some other quantity of trees,.

B

Right exactly so, what you would do I mean. Obviously, the solar developer is not going.

F

To shade his own panels or he shouldn't so in my mind he can you can have that along the.

F

North side, or whatever you can do, whatever kind of buffering he wants.

F

But I would think you could you could go to a three to one or something like that.

F

Exchange where the where the installer or developer sees fit at his his you know some kind.

F

Of flexibility there, so he doesn't have to put canopy trees that are going to infringe upon it.

B

Well right, and so I mean we could certainly say um well, you know what let me go back.

B

To residential- because maybe it's it's more straightforward to think about residential, so.

B

Perhaps b the 65 foot is too broad, and so is the 30 foot with more plants.

B

Is the 15 foot enough or do we create an entirely different buffer yard adjacent to houses? So you.

A

Could just go through those again just because this is the first time I'm seeing them. So I.

A

Understand one yeah: I would like to see that one more so I would call this the least intense.

B

Buffer yard, it's not recommended currently for low intensity utility use next to residential what we.

B

Would currently require for low intensity utility use next to residential is this, which is broad.

B

um And because it's so broad, the planting is, of course, they're they're welcome to plant the plants.

B

In any configuration they want within that space, um so they could put it all like soldiers in a.

B

Row at one end, or they could cluster it and leave open spaces in between we. You know we don't um get.

B

Into that detail, and can we see c and then c is um the middle width but the most intense planting.

A

So just just a this would be probably more expensive for a developer because of all the.

A

The the intensity of the trees and shrubs that are gonna need to be put in.

A

But it's a lower, it's a lower, um uh less threshold or uh uh real estate buffer yeah, and this is what.

B

The county would currently require next to a power generating station yeah yeah.

B

Next to a sewage treatment plant right are the are the developers ever.

D

Allowed to choose between b and c well, it's not unusual to have variances on buffers, so um we.

B

Recently approved a new commercial development on a um on a corner lot um in a village center.

B

And because of the size of the property in order to fit the convenience store and the gas canopies.

B

They were required to have this 65-foot buffer along the highway, and um it would not give them.

B

Room to put everything they wanted, so they they're um they re. They got a variance which.

B

Requires a public hearing to reduce the 65 foot down to roughly 19 feet all the same number of.

B

Trees and shrubs crammed into one-third space, but of course our goal is to try to.

B

Arrive at a regulation that people don't have to keep varying. If you find the right regulation.

B

People are comfortable with it and it works. If you have to keep varying the regulation, you need to.

B

Fix your regulation yeah, and I think I think, with this and I'll just express my personal opinion.

A

As a member of the task force for re, I'm I'm comfortable with b for residential areas.

A

uh Emitting the canopy trees, um but the 65 foot seems like a lot to me, uh but I'm comfortable with.

A

The 65 foot, if that's other other uh uh members, are comfortable with that, so, uh whereas I think.

A

This, the the uh c is, is much more intense, it'll, be a lot more expensive for community solar to be put.

A

In so I'd prefer not that we did not that, but I do like the idea under b that if we could shorten.

A

That length, that would be somewhat preferable. Well, I guess 65, that's so uh I guess that's! That's!.

A

You know I always have to think of excuse me, a football field um to measure distances.

A

So that's uh about 20 yards right and from uh from a property line that may be sufficient.

A

uh And, and so it may be, okay by me as well. Anyone any thoughts on the amount on this buffer being.

A

Acceptable to them for residential, if we put a community solar and recommend it community, solar.

A

In some of the examples that harry showed us with one side being perhaps residential.

D

So so you you bring up a good point, because I think- and this was one of the things that we've.

D

Discussed when- and I think we need to be careful- we're talking buffers- is that we've discussed.

D

Infill right of trying to put some of these um and actually harry and talking about you know.

D

Where we're making variances on property- and my thought is well- maybe that wasn't.

D

The right property for that particular use if we're having to do that. Much of a variance but.

D

Neither here nor there, um so I think what we talked about as well, is that, with with solar.

D

In particular, we're trying to put this in places that doesn't require the prime farmland or trees.

D

Or anything of of special value, and so infill is always a good option and when you're doing.

D

Infill type of activities, we may not have an ideal situation of where we do. You know exactly 65-foot.

D

Buffer because that's now defeated the purpose of putting that kind of use into into a property.

D

I mean anyone else have thoughts on that. So you know you're expressing concerns on the 65-foot.

A

Recommendation as well, especially if it was, for example, you're, saying put in a place.

A

Where it was somewhat residential is that is that your suggestion.

D

It's it's more just a matter of you know: we've our zoning is kind of weird. If I remember correctly,.

D

We've we haven't had really well established sony for for very long um right building codes.

D

Have only been since the 90s, so I think it's one of those things that, as we start to look.

D

At the best fit- um and maybe this is maybe this is one discussion that we have when we actually.

D

Get the maps going forward and we start looking at the pattern of land that looks like it's going.

D

To be more ideal and kind of can run a bit of an analysis of hey, you know, if we're, if we're trying.

D

To infill or trying to put solar in in a places that have already been used, what what sort of.

D

Buffers do we think we're going to need to start to have in place, so we can still put the solar in.

D

But make sure that the surrounding properties are are still okay, instead of like a flat. You know.

D

Maybe 65 foot isn't isn't the right requirement for for what solar is and chairman? If I may.

B

I think part of her point is: if we're trying to do in-field development, it's it's limited.

B

Space and this is using up a lot of good solar space kind of getting back to the roof point.

B

So, um which reminded me of a point I made in a past meeting about the com, the comparison to the.

B

Extractive industry, we tried to have huge buffer yards for mining because we thought we had to.

B

Protect the adjacent properties from all that high intensity use and the state said: well guess what.

B

The state minimum setback for mining is 25 feet, and so we can, we can ask for more at.

B

The conditional use hearing, but they've actually already have a mining permit from the state that.

B

Authorized 25 feet so and it's the same thought of of they if they, if they had a 65-foot buffer.

B

Yard they're losing all that valuable gravel under there and- um and so I think, it's a point well made.

B

65 is it's like the roof issue? It's using up a lot of good solar space yeah, and this would just be of.

A

Course, next to a residential area, that was your proposal that only next to residences. So that's.

A

I think I mean the issue really for me here. Is you know what is sufficient? Generally speaking,.

A

To protect residencies from a commercial excuse me, a uh community solar up to two megawatts.

A

And what would be uh sort of acceptable and recommend to the commissioners uh on what that.

A

That should be uh so. We have everything in front of us. uh This is nice, go ahead, uh less.

C

I can offer just a couple of other counties um what their requirements are for both community.

C

And utility scale most counties don't make any differentiation I'll give you two extremes.

C

Worcester, for instance, requires that their vegetative buffer be at least six feet in width.

C

So that's on the low end. Obviously, if the solar panels are located within 500 feet of any property.

C

Zoned residential queen anne's, on the other hand, has a more aggressive requirement of a.

C

Mixed vegetated buffer, that's at least 50 feet wide around the perimeter of the site area.

C

Both both all counties, basically that require vegetative buffers, do allow that this obviously.

C

Is within the setback requirement they can overlap and that you can use existing on-site vegetation.

C

That is there so 65 feet does seem a little wide. Looking at how other counties.

C

Approach and require that even for utility scale.

A

Right and that's that was sort of my point- we'll still need the buffer there, but um jeff do you.

A

Think that the developers would you know it would help them if, uh if the in this case, the setback.

A

Would say, or the buffer was only 30 to 35 feet, the smaller you make it the happier they'll be yeah.

A

And uh but obviously that you know that'll could affect homeowners. So uh any thought.

A

Any thoughts on that, I guess my thought is that is that it's not like you've got.

F

Backhoes running or forklifts or whatever.

F

It's basically no noise here, so so you're really just talking about a visual buffer, as opposed to.

F

Requirements for many other situations, so I I I I don't. I don't know why you need much of a buffer.

F

At all other than visual and uh and I'd like to say, I'd, be reluctant to put the canopy trees in it.

F

If, if they were on shading the panels themselves, eventually, I think we we need to be careful.

G

Because we already have some county ordinances already in place and if we allow this certain.

G

Facilities put up and they don't have to do as much as another facility. That's going to have some.

G

Backlash on you so think about that when we go go doing these um these buffers.

G

We've got to kind of go with what the county ordinances already have been doing in the past.

G

With everybody else's development areas, well, as I mean in a sense we're being asked to say.

A

Where, under which of these categories, low or high, the solar really fits into, we are arguing, I think.

A

That it fits into the more low intensity kinds of uh of things, so I I you know, I think I would be.

A

Comfortable with this I mean uh so uh a mix of a and b, so to speak, where we have the.

A

We have a lower threshold, say, 30 feet and uh but it you know, we have the uh no canopy trees and.

A

I'm not sure the difference in the density of a and b in terms of the buffer there so.

B

We've got five shrubs twenty uh or I'm sorry, five hundred twenty two subs eleven evergreen.

B

um No evergreen, four understory and ten shrubs yeah, I mean, but it's also twice the size.

B

Which is why it's, you know like twice: the plants yeah, I think, mike's pulling, is well taken.

A

Right, I think what people really care about is not being able to see it from a residential area.

A

So I don't know what that translates to exactly in terms of this, but I think that's what we're.

A

Trying to aim at that people cannot see it in a residential area if it's adjacent to them.

A

And I think to the point that both you know, you've made that jeff has made about what developers.

A

Might want- and I think bonnie's point that we want to try to make this accessible and and.

A

Impossible, I think, to the degree that we shrink uh the setback or the buffer, but keep it so that you.

A

Cannot see it in a from a residential area? That's I think what the com the committee is sort of.

A

I get a sense of what we're trying to get at is that is that a fair characterization.

A

Definitely- and you gotta remember whatever is playing in that buffer. It's gonna grow.

G

And get bigger, so it's gonna, yeah, yeah and and solar panels are not that high. Are they.

B

um Can be they can be, but but not so high that you need a canopy tree to block it.

E

No, I look at ours in hughesville yeah, the top end of the panel, I'm six foot tall.

E

It's a little bit taller than me so call it seven seven and a half feet, maybe eight yeah at the.

E

Highest point of the panel yeah you so understory trees should be the maximum height. We need.

B

I think that's correct yes and so, and so it's really just a matter of of picking um a width.

B

And it doesn't have to be one of these widths um and then and then a quantity of planting.

F

As any, uh it depends on where, on the landscape, you're you're putting these as well.

F

Canopy trees might be appropriate on the north side, but they wouldn't be required. Yeah.

B

And so um and their own, and we're only talking about a buffer yard adjacent to.

B

In this case, the residential use, so so, if there are no residences on the north side, there's no.

B

Need for a buffer yard on the north side? That's correct! That's our understanding, so I mean.

A

I'm good with 30 feet. You know this is uh somewhat arbitrary number. From our point of view, it's not.

A

Arbitrary from the developer's point of view by any means or the or the homeowner. But.

A

I I think that you know I'd like to hear it. Would you prefer 15 feet or 30 feet? I think.

A

We agreed that 65 feet seems excessive, so any thoughts on 15 versus 30 feet, since this is uh I.

A

Feel, like I'm auctioning now something right. You know, so uh any any thoughts uh on 15 versus 30.

A

If you just bonnie or or anyone jump in yeah, I feel like anywhere between 25 and 30 feet.

G

Is going to be sufficient enough for what we're doing here mike it's right there with his room.

A

That's about 30 feet, right, 34, right, I'd, buy that that's a whole lot, yeah all right! um So so bonnie.

D

So the other question is: is right, so you're going to have to have equipment that goes around.

D

These guys, so that they're going to have to have a gap between where the solar panels are going.

D

To be up until wherever the buffer is so you're you're also going to be um you're going to have.

D

There's going to be a gap between the panels and whatever you set up as the canopy requirement.

D

Or the um the landscaping requirement as well, so there you're already going to have.

D

A gap right because I'm I'm thinking of the hughesville right, there's a gap between the end of.

D

The panels and the fence right jeff, that's correct how much how much gap do you have there anyway,.

D

Or do you build in typically when we're looking at designing it's the width of a mower.

E

So we can get the guy around okay, the the side be go right down the side of the fence and not.

E

Hit a panel, so that's not even there so six points. Here's the six button yeah cause, I'm.

D

Looking through, like these pictures and stuff, so you're already gonna have six feet already. There.

D

You're gonna have um probably just a general, you know, I I think I'm actually I'd say like.

B

Making out a buffer yard here, maybe I'll, give me a c. Is somebody digging something and putting theirs.

G

Are they playing it already? Go ahead, uh go ahead, bonnie, so we're you were uh thinking out loud here.

A

You already said so: you got six feet, probably to the fence and then another.

A

uh Another 30 feet to the property line of the residential area.

D

Yeah so you're already so you're already going to have a fence isn't going to stop the visual, but it.

D

It's going to provide that security piece, so you've already got six feet there between the.

D

Actual solar panels themselves and the fence, and so really the next question, then, is how.

D

Much buffer do you get between the fence and the property line, and then what are the.

D

What are the setbacks for property on there for people to build their homes on their property.

B

The side yard setback is 15 feet in the rural zone, okay, so in the royal resort, it's only 15 feet so.

D

I mean, if you did, I'm just trying to visualize what that would look like.

D

I don't know 20 feet, I guess like so then you'd have a total of 25 between the.

D

26 between the panels and then the property line, and then you have another 15 feet.

D

Between the property line and the residency, so you end up with a total of almost 50 feet.

D

In between the solar panels and the property or the solar panels in the next adjacent structure,.

B

um If the, if the adjacent structure was at the minimum setback, yes.

H

Yeah so yeah, you almost end up at 50. If you go with like 20.

A

So your proposal is really as a smaller setback than the 30 that we've discussed. So you said 20.

A

Feet is is something that you think should be proposed with uh uh like a type a buffer.

A

But not having the canopy trees uh is that a fair um is that kind of what you're thinking.

D

Yeah, so that's in a way a combined use again, so I think 20 is 20 25. What are we thinking.

E

I could go as low as 20.

A

Okay, I think that's uh I I can. I can live with that as well, all right, uh the buffer being.

A

A type a buffer is that uh uh acceptable to people yep, okay, so we would works for me and again.

A

I think harry what our thinking here is and you've heard all this is where the buffer needs to be.

A

High enough uh to be just a little bit taller than jeff, actually so we can make that to standard if.

A

You like, um and uh that's really what I think uh you know and I'm not sure how you would phrase.

A

That at some point it would have to be that high. I don't know if it has to be immediately that high.

B

Yeah um I mean typically they're. They we have our minimum standards and then it has to grow into.

B

That thickness, okay, mr thomas, said they will grow. So if it's a type, it's a modified type, a 20 feet.

B

Wide substitute additional understory for canopy, I I think so yeah. I think that would be good canopy.

B

um Add understory and then just to show you how it might turn out.

B

um So if we go back to this table, it would just wind up having a footnote down here, to explain.

B

That it's a modification we would wind up, probably just putting a footnote down here, explaining.

B

And so the way it would look on this table is, it would be imagine a um an a footnote. Eight.

A

Okay or or perhaps a proposed use, couldn't it be a a on a row, solar right, oh well, right it'll,.

B

Be a different different use, it'll be community solar yeah and it would be against residential.

B

Lower high and a footnote, eight would clarify no canopy substitute and reduce the size to.

B

20 feet: okay, increase the size; okay, so because the a was 15. so very good. uh If, if we go ahead.

F

Mike it's just one point just wanted to make. This would not apply to individual residential.

B

No because those are accessory and those are permitted uses and those um have no special.

B

Solar standards, I just wanted to make it clear, yeah, okay, this just community- and these would.

A

Be and what we're thinking here is a developer who's, developing something larger right or at.

A

Least, in my mind right some of these pictures, several acres, and so this would be required.

A

So the standard would be when it's backed up against residents all areas 20 feet with a.

A

Sufficient barrier so that the residencies cannot see the solar, the solar panels. So I think if we.

A

Could put that into the language lesson uh um and and for next time, we'll just sort of vote on it.

A

Once we see the finalized language uh and I think we can use that language for the community, solar.

A

For uh what we've been working on right here was um really, I think uh the setback and screening.

A

Requirements were covered correct, yes, sir uh on that, and we did not really where allowed and and.

A

Then conditional use, I'm not sure if we we sort of uh you know covered all that, um but I didn't see.

A

You know uh not sure what we these. Obviously you talked about at that in the beginning,.

A

uh When you talked about different zoning areas right, um here's the use table, I brought um whoops.

B

I didn't put in the powerpoint, but um there.

B

So yeah, if you want to talk about uses in zones, so these are all the zones we have.

B

And um across the top here.

B

And um we then have these overlay zones. This is the um aircraft overlay zone.

B

Associated with the navy base critical area, um could you could you please.

D

Shift that to the for some reason, it's not showing up on my big screen here. Oh I'm, sorry.

B

um Let me stop see that let me stop sharing and try to grab it again. So, if I say share is.

D

It in your presentation- oh, is it in your presentation; it is not in the powerpoint.

D

Okay, yeah yeah. I could not for some reason I could not see it. Try again. I I mean maybe.

A

We've answered this uh harry and I'm making it too complicated. So excuse me, if I am, I mean.

A

We did really want community solar to be put in agricultural, residential, commercial or industrial.

A

That that was going to be permissible, I believe uh in any of those we dealt with the residential area.

A

Just because, if it backed up against a residential area, we we needed a special considerations on.

A

On setbacks and buffers, so maybe I'm over uh this is I'm making this more complex than it is that.

A

We don't need to really see these, because these are not really, as you know, invasive in the sense.

A

Of you know with tractors and a lot of things right. So it's just it's just a small. It's a.

A

Structure of sorts right right so just to show you how we deal with um with our utility major.

B

Versus utility minor, so again we considered the utility scale solar to be a conditional use in the.

B

Rpd zone notice it it was not allowed currently, if we, if we didn't, have this task force, creating.

B

New regulations, utility scale, solar- is not allowed in most zones, and it would only be.

B

Allowed as a conditional use in these five zones now, if we equate community solar to a utility.

B

Miner, which is what we were doing talking about buffer yards, it's permitted in all zones. That's.

A

Acceptable to me, if it's do any of the other task force, members have any thoughts about that.

A

No, no I'm just knowing what we heard from the military. Are we yeah that's taking into.

E

Consideration? Yes, indeed, absolutely because when we create the zoning overlay map which, if what.

B

I wonder if we might do is create another column over here. That would be the um the solar overlay.

B

And and that's where it would show the um not allowed and by the same token like if we had.

B

See how we have utility miner here is allowed in the apc subject to these footnotes and ap z2.

B

Subject to these footnotes? Well, if, if community solar was just flat out not allowed in the apc, we.

B

Would we would exclude it which is uh apz? Is the accident potential zone around the navy base, but.

B

We want to be broader than the accident potential zone, because the navy wants us to that's right.

A

That's right, so I think I think this is you're exactly right. This is, I mean something that.

A

We always want to consider the base, as you suggested and we've all agreed, that.

A

We do not want solar going up in any way that conflicts with the concerns that the base has.

A

So I this looks good to me so in terms of for community solar at least, I think we're through.

A

That you know this, this would be, I think, acceptable to to the task force. There.

A

Seem to be no objections and then conditional use then therefore, doesn't necessarily apply.

A

Is that correct yeah I mean it was my impression that the task force earlier this evening.

B

Was not wanting it to be a conditional use? I had to question mark on my powerpoint yeah.

A

I think that's correct, at least for community solar, correct.

B

Yeah we're only talking about community solar at this time.

A

So that, then brings us, I think, that's clarified. We've discussed all this. That brings us to the.

A

Decommissioning requirements um and I think uh less you I spoke to you about this. um You know.

A

About this and about the possibility of a bond we were discussing, you know mike brought up.

A

This idea of a bond being a concern harry. You had a few things to say about that as well, and I.

B

And I have two examples of how our ordinance has dealt with it in the past. Thank you. um If I can.

B

Get rid of that one so that bonnie can see what I bring up all right. I want to share this.

B

So, um which one is this, um this is for something.

D

For some reason it's off to the side is it: is that better, like less can.

D

Yeah when it shares the screen blank screen and I can see, I can see the edge of the document and.

D

That's, oh, oh, you know what I bet. I know what let me try this I'm going to stop sharing hey.

B

Let me find the document yeah, I'm having the same thing. I was not able to see the other chart.

C

Okay, I'm sorry, let me bring this up. I this is my problem. I didn't have it centered on the screen.

B

I think that's going to fix it. Okay, who was that.

B

Better yeah, perfect, okay, so this is what we have for uh telecommunication towers. um So all.

B

Obsolete or unused facilities, including buildings towers, all other improvements associated with the.

B

Tower shall automatically be deemed abandoned upon 24 months continuous cessation and shall.

B

Be removed at such time without cost to the county. Applicants shall provide a bond letter of credit.

B

Or other appropriate surety at time of approval, as approved by the county, to cover the cost for.

B

Demolition, the facility and site restoration. So um that's our version where we require a bond.

B

And I would say, the history is, you know over 20 years ago, when telecommunication towers were new.

B

um We weren't sure if they were going to stick around, isn't that funny, um and so we felt we.

B

Had to be prepared for all these obsolete um telecommunication towers, but um this is.

B

This is a lesser animal. This is small wind energy system, so in essence, a wind turbine.

B

And what we did here these would be on private property um and and serving just the house, so.

B

This is a much smaller thing than a than a telecommunication tower, um but here we said.

B

Any small wind energy system found to be abandoned or unsafe shall be repaired, removed. A small wind.

B

Energy system fails to operate for more than 12 months shall be deemed to be abandoned.

B

um No bond and I still feel that, if the county, we do have a blight ordinance now and if we.

B

Felt something was blight um we could actually and we we do this, we go to court and order the.

B

Property owner to resolve it, and in the case of a house, um they are ordered to tear it down.

B

um So just the last thing I would say on that subject is just that. um My experience after.

B

Monitoring tower removal bonds for over 20 years. It's just an annoying chore. um If, if, if the county.

B

Needs to have an abandoned solar facility um eradicated 25 years from now. I think we'll have.

B

The um the lawful power to do it without holding a bond and I and to me making them post this bond.

B

Is them having to take more out of pocket costs and tie it up in a way? um So I personally would.

B

Would not want to see a bond. I think you're making a very good point, especially about that.

A

The county would still have means or mechanisms if it constituted a blight uh to have it removed.

A

So yeah and and the maintenance requirements, your right or more onerous would be another uh obstacle.

A

To in you know putting community solar, so I think you know, I think your recommendation is one that I.

A

Share as well, and so I, if without objection on the committee, if we could sort of suggest at least for.

A

Community, solar, that there'd be no bond posted and that we use the language that perhaps you had you.

A

Showed us in the second one to adapt that a bit for a community solar I'd be comfortable with that.

A

Bonnie, uh since we can't see you uh you any thoughts on that sorry, um no, I I agree.

D

I think what you guys, okay tracking, that sounds good yeah. Okay, if I could just make one comment.

F

You know we're getting to the point now where, where uh uh panels installed.

F

10 years ago I know I've gone through the cost studies to see if they're worth replacing.

F

With the better panel right- and I think, you'll probably see at least one generation.

F

If not more of these panels, after 20 years being replaced with better panels, so you're talking.

F

40 years out, I'm not sure that's appropriate for a bond and right and those complications.

A

Okay, so I think we have a thank you very much mike and thank you bonnie. I think we have a.

A

uh You know agreement on this and, to be honest, I also think, uh like the towers.

A

uh Very well likely will be reused uh after this period of time. So uh I think that that kind of.

A

Concludes then, uh the decommissioning requirements and chairman, actually just before you close that.

B

I wanted to clarify so this first one um talks about um shall be removed at no cost to the county.

B

And then maybe just strike the bond part. So this is the tower language versus the.

B

Versus yeah yeah this language, um I'm sorry yeah, the second one I'll.

B

Bring the second one up so that everyone can see it. This language was much softer.

B

Just says shall be repaired or removed per the building code. Official personally, I.

B

Think the first paragraph was better if we just take the bond part away.

E

And if we're going to change that, I would make the amendment from 24 months down to 12..

B

Okay, so so- and this one says 12 so so- an amalgamation of the two yeah, because the.

E

First, one gave it 20 for two years of non-operational. It could get a little.

E

Disrepair over two years, so I would say within a year it needs to be taken. That's reasonable, yeah.

A

uh So go back to that, the other one that we can see and show everyone, and then we can kind of.

A

Walk through it a little bit for less's purposes, since he'll have to write this up for us. So.

A

So something like all obsolete and unused facilities, equipments, obviously towers is probably.

A

Not necessary and all other other improvements associated with the energy facility, perhaps.

A

Shall automatically be deemed abandoned upon 12 months of continuous cessation of operations.

A

And shall be removed at such time without cost to the county period right.

A

And I think then uh we would sort of talk about um something I don't know.

A

If we want to say and site restoration as well, I'm not sure we want to put that in.

A

But I think that gives the flavor of what we're suggesting is that enough guidance left for you.

C

That is, and I think the one year time frame for a solar facility is very reasonable and in line.

C

With what many other counties require, uh even for utility scale, many counties give less than.

C

A year, but I think a year is fair. uh If you're considering taking the land back to where it was.

C

Okay, that you would probably want to have, especially in agricultural setting.

C

uh If it is on agricultural land, you do want that restoration piece in there.

A

Yes and that's uh okay, I I think we agree on that, and so please put that language in less.

A

Then we have, if I I may does that answer your questions. Less.

C

Yes, it does. I, I took a photo of the language harry put up, I've got the one year and I can.

C

Make the modifications to convert it from cell powers to solar excellent? Thank you very much.

A

Harry we have one other additional one under the community, which is really um that was tabled and.

A

That's other requirements, communities and we have the new language. I think that that.

A

Harry provided community solar systems number seven should not unreasonably restrict or limit.

A

A historical or scenic view view shed. The commissioner should also consider whether to.

A

Require a community solar project submit to the county, an operation and maintenance agreement.

A

For stormwater management and vegetation upkeep, the agreement again perhaps includes a bond.

A

Or financial agreement acceptable to the county, uh is there bonds harry that typically go with.

A

Stormwater management and vegetation upkeep there's bonds um to guarantee proper construction.

B

And then, once it's properly constructed the bond is released. um There is a requirement.

B

For an inspection and maintenance agreement to be recorded and therefore.

B

um Grants the county inspectors uh the right of entry onto the property to do.

B

Maintenance inspections from that point forward and we're actually obligated under state law to do.

B

Maintenance inspections every three years on stormwater facilities.

A

Any any concerns about that, with the exception of so and in this case right, the bond is less onerous.

A

Because it would be released eventually uh right when it when it passes, inspection and is deemed.

B

Ready for service it, um the bond is released.

B

So that's a construction bond, it's not not a maintenance bond.

A

I think I think I'm good with that language is everyone else, good with that language, for.

A

The community solar, um I mean that's a standard construct, that's a bond! That's applied to any.

D

Sort of development correct exactly exactly so. I think we're all good with that. Right.

A

Yep and then I think, eight nine and ten are good.

A

uh Potential incentives for brownfield or gray field development.

A

And the tax incentives anything I don't think we had anything new on potential.

A

Incentives for brownfield or grayfield development, except uh we do did we say harry.

A

I thought we excuse me uh last. I did thought we said that the.

A

That the county should consider right was that, with.

A

That was with, uh I think, uh with presidential.

A

We said the task force recommends that commissioners consider any county assistance.

A

Is warranted to further the adoption and we could say, of of community solar in the county.

A

So we could make a recommendation again to the commissioners that they consider.

A

Incentives for brownfield or grayfield, we could yeah, I mean or infill development as well.

C

Yes, that is recommendation six under the uh residential. That's.

C

Correct that's correct. We could just take that over and bring you that's correct.

A

And then, of course, on taxation, are there any implications harry on taxes? If, if say.

A

A property were to put up uh community solar on their own property. uh Would that affect uh the.

A

Assessments that that could change their tax assessment. um A good example would be.

B

We have um rural residential properties who are engaging in certain um well, the most common.

B

That's talked about the news is wedding venue, business and now that it's a business um of a.

B

Certain um scope, quantity, size, um the tax assessor, is actually um uh assessing them commercially.

A

So I think uh this goes back to the buckets again and maybe um certainly.

A

If this was principally used for low-income and middle-income people,.

A

And community solar- and that was really you know- that that's what their goal was.

A

It would be seem, like um you know, taxing them, for that doing that would be would not be. I think.

A

Consistent with community solar and then I think the other issue is on brownfields and gray fields.

A

We would not want any I'm not sure how it would if it would apply, but again we.

A

Would want to encourage this, so I do think we want some language in here that provides.

A

uh Some suggestions on taxation that uh you know would waive any kind of some of the.

A

Increasing uh value that might be associated with uh uh putting this on.

A

Any any thoughts on that before we uh we end up. We don't have to do that. We don't have to finish.

A

This one we're running out of time, and it's just important this consideration- we don't want it to.

A

Have necessarily negative implications for the for the county, but we also want to encourage.

A

It as well for the community solar to allow it. um It is, in my mind, a commercial operation, though so.

F

You're generating revenue you're generating power, you know so yep.

F

I think you would have to fall onto that unless I was explaining otherwise, I know I may be hard.

A

For you to weigh in on this uh jeff, but no it's not. I just don't know if les has seen anything.

E

Else you know somewhere else in the state that uh has addressed this. I'm not aware of anything.

C

Last night, no, I'm not aware of anything specifically targeting low-income property.

C

Where they're your customers, some other counties for utility scale, and you may want to.

C

Consider this for a community do allow for pilot programs payment in lieu of taxes. Others might.

C

Reduce the personal property tax, uh that's charged for the equipment, the panels or or other.

C

Business property for these types of projects.

C

So there is some flexibility, and the task force might want to recommend that the county consider.

C

Allowing for a pilot or something else, and that gives some flexibility to say.

C

Real will given your customer base if it's a economically disadvantaged community.

C

Maybe we'll allow a pilot, and maybe we'll give you a better rate than if you were to pay.

C

Your normal property taxes, I think that's a that's a good suggestion and perhaps you can think about.

A

That, uh let's uh I'm going to recommend that we table this since we're running out of time today,.

A

And we revisit this at our next meeting and finish the utility scale. I think we've done.

A

Really good work today, thinking about this, this is not uh we're doing a lot of, I think.

A

You're very useful work, hopefully for the commissioners, so that they can.

A

Better understand some of the complexities here that we've gone through.

A

Bonnie les, thank you les. I know you have some some report. Could we on some of the.

A

Changes going on in annapolis, could we uh table that to uh next meeting.

A

Yes, okay, uh if there's no other business, I move to adjourn we'll move nice. Second, all in favor.

A

All right, I think this meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Everyone for your contributions today.